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[00:00:37] <Connor> yea. I'll leave that up to Pete.. and watch how he does it..
[00:00:53] <Connor> But first, we have to make that adapter plate..
[00:01:08] <Connor> I hope the 3/4" thick alum plate I have will work for it.
[00:36:19] <RyanS> sheesh, this thing spits out sheet metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsFdLhJ06Ik
[02:27:10] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:34:49] <RyanS> What's the deal with the so-called economy models from mori sieki for example. They manufactured by Chinese and Taiwanese OEM's?
[03:57:05] <skroon> hi
[06:49:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all (boys) milling like hell
[06:52:36] <IchGuckLive> today running out of metall sheeds here to many plasma cutas !!
[06:53:09] <IchGuckLive> i go sunbathing by till 7pm MESZ (s) stands for summmer B)
[08:52:09] <jdh> I showed that tcp & udp joke thing to a few computer people at work. One understood the UDP, nobody got the TCP one.
[08:52:17] <jdh> <urk>
[10:05:15] <jdh> any machinist types around? I want to cut a rectangular 1" x 0.5" profile in a 0.5" 6061 sheet with a 0.25" endmill.
[10:06:32] <archivist> whats the real question
[10:06:33] <jdh> and be able to put a 1" x 0.5" tab into the resulting hole. Can I just drill the corners of the profile with a .25" and have the tab fit into the hole?
[10:07:48] <skunkworks> don't you have a mill that does square corners?
[10:08:03] <jdh> that would be much cooler
[10:08:11] <jdh> does this exist?
[10:08:21] <skunkworks> I just run the mill out at each corner at a 45deg path
[10:08:25] <archivist> internal square corners is probably the real question
[10:08:37] <skunkworks> if you don't care how the hole looks
[10:08:48] <jdh> that is the real question,now that you put it that way
[10:08:50] <jdh> kind of
[10:09:20] <jdh> how do I fit a rectangular tab into a hole cut with an endmill
[10:09:47] <archivist> round the corners of the tab is one way
[10:10:01] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/boring.jpg
[10:10:16] <skunkworks> I thought I had a picture of a fixture milled that way...
[10:10:19] <skunkworks> but I don't
[10:10:37] <skunkworks> but - the rounded tab as archivist mentioned is sort of what you see...
[10:10:53] <skunkworks> (lower left)
[10:12:51] <jdh> rounding the corners of the tabs sounds more difficult than drilling out the corners or doing the 45 thing
[10:13:22] <jdh> The plan is to chamfer the backsides of the tab and the plate and have them welded.
[10:13:31] <skunkworks> we made some 'square' pockets with a larger mill - then finished it off with a 1/16 mill. (then I think dad chislled them square..)
[10:14:22] <archivist> for clock keys we drilled round and then broached to square
[10:15:30] <jdh> http://www.artichoke.org/ladder-mount.pdf
[10:15:56] <jdh> that is the initial idea
[10:16:13] <skunkworks> I would do what archivist says - make them round.
[10:16:21] <skunkworks> *round corners
[10:16:37] <jdh> is that better/worse/indifferent for welding?
[10:17:27] <archivist> may be better as less need to stop while welding
[10:18:09] <archivist> depends on skill of welder and quality required
[10:47:20] <ssi> jdh: predrill the corners with a 1/8" drill and finish your internal pocket with 1/8" endmill
[10:47:41] <ssi> you'll end up witha 1/16" radius "mousehole" at the corners, but if it's being welded that's easy to fill and won't show up
[10:47:49] <ssi> aluminum fillet is going to be considerably wider than that
[10:48:12] <ssi> welding half inch aluminum to half inch aluminum in a corner weld is gonna be at least a 3/8" wide bead
[10:49:47] <jdh> cool
[10:50:06] <jdh> 45 chamfer on both parts sound reasonable?
[10:50:13] <ssi> yep
[10:50:35] <jdh> finding a welder is the hard part.
[10:50:36] <ssi> now you just gotta consider your fit tolerance
[10:51:00] <ssi> what part of the world are you in
[10:51:17] <jdh> wilmington, NC, South East Coast.
[10:51:22] <jdh> lots of marine Al welders around
[10:51:31] <ssi> well if you get stuck and want to come to atlanta
[10:51:39] <ssi> I've got a pet certified aerospace welder
[10:51:39] <PetefromTn> I can tig weld aluminum..
[10:51:48] <ssi> depending on how critical it is ;)
[10:52:02] <ssi> I can tig aluminum too, but for critical stuff I always let dan do it
[10:52:04] <jdh> heh. The ladder part is going to be 2" square aluminum with 1.25" OD tubing through it for rungs.
[10:52:54] <jdh> I was planning on cutting everything nominal and adding 'tolerance' with a file
[11:11:34] <PetefromTn> Been doing a lot of drawing with Freecad lately...
[11:11:49] <PetefromTn> It is not without bugs but it is a cool program that works well.
[11:15:49] <PetefromTn> http://snag.gy/XUERA.jpg
[11:16:05] <PetefromTn> Drew this in about an hour and a half last night.
[11:17:20] <Connor> PetefromTn: What is that exactly ?
[11:18:09] <Connor> OH. never mind. I'ts one of those touch off tools
[11:18:37] <PetefromTn> Yup LOL...
[11:19:01] <PetefromTn> Not bad for a free freakin' parametric cad program huh.
[11:19:19] <Connor> nope.
[11:19:48] <Connor> Well.. be back later.. gotta go pick up niece and nephew.
[11:19:59] <PetefromTn> Cya..
[11:23:22] <pfred1> what?
[11:24:18] <PetefromTn> pfred1 huh?
[11:24:30] <pfred1> a free freakin' parametric cad program
[11:24:54] <PetefromTn> yup...
[11:25:18] <pfred1> what is it called?
[11:25:19] <PetefromTn> They are also working on a cam package for it as well as quite a few other things
[11:25:24] <PetefromTn> Freecad
[11:25:35] <PetefromTn> Check it out on youtube...
[11:25:37] <pfred1> oh I've used it does it support imperial measurements yet?
[11:25:53] <pfred1> or is the lead nazi running that project still dead set against it?
[11:25:56] <PetefromTn> No that is one of the problems..
[11:26:08] <pfred1> yeah the guy that wrote it is a kraut dickhead
[11:26:17] <pfred1> I've had words with him
[11:26:22] <PetefromTn> Actually it is apparently that they leave it open for us yanks to do it LOL
[11:26:36] <PetefromTn> There are simple workarounds tho.
[11:26:51] <PetefromTn> I drew that part in what I consider imperial measurements
[11:27:05] <PetefromTn> Then I use a scaling at the end to make it actual size...
[11:27:30] <PetefromTn> There are a bunch of very helpful people on the Freecad IRC and their forum is helpful as well..
[11:27:33] <pfred1> I can't believe all these years and that program still doesn't support the scale
[11:27:44] <PetefromTn> Like I said it is not without its faults.
[11:27:46] <fragalot> I don't see how not supporting imperial measurements is a problem :P
[11:28:03] <fragalot> it's not like anyone sane still uses that ;)
[11:28:16] <PetefromTn> But having said that I have been able to do more complex and interesting stuff with this program quicker than anything else I have tried including Alibre
[11:28:36] <PetefromTn> fragalot Stir the pot good man LOL
[11:28:46] <pfred1> once i found out it couldn't do imperial measurements I never gave it anymore of my time
[11:28:57] <fragalot> PetefromTn: :)
[11:29:05] <pfred1> whopowhee it sure is raining here now
[11:29:12] <Tom_itx> jdh, a bit late to the party but like i did here:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencil_form1.jpg
[11:29:22] <Tom_itx> overcut the corders the radius of the tool
[11:29:22] <PetefromTn> You don't know what you're mising unless you can afford solidworks or similar
[11:29:26] <Tom_itx> corners*
[11:29:57] <pfred1> I can see why no one came down to the beach this weekend now
[11:30:36] <fragalot> I use inventor, and all you're missing there are computer lock-ups
[11:30:36] <fragalot> :P
[11:31:01] <PetefromTn> Oh don't worry freecad has those too LOL
[11:31:10] <fragalot> :D
[11:31:29] <PetefromTn> I found that if you save occasionally it is okay tho and there are ways of working in it that avoid such problems
[11:54:44] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:54:51] <pfred1> hi
[11:55:25] <PetefromTn> hey ich..
[11:55:41] <IchGuckLive> hi pete and how does the mashine work
[11:56:02] <pfred1> I need to reengineer my BOB a little so I can try out my Y axis
[11:56:12] <PetefromTn> Working okay still have not found any paying jobs but I am working on it LOL
[11:56:22] <pfred1> paying jobs?
[11:56:28] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: why not going with a cheep ready made
[11:56:36] <PetefromTn> Stil need to make the encoder mount for spindle motor
[11:56:45] <pfred1> IchGuckLive making my own is cheaper
[11:57:01] <PetefromTn> yeah I retrofitted a Cincinatti arrow 500 VMC for my fabrication shop
[11:57:07] <IchGuckLive> 30USD is nor worth to get a ready made
[11:57:08] <pfred1> plus i enjoy doing electronics
[11:57:28] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: agree
[11:57:36] <pfred1> I don't think you can get much of a BOB for $30
[11:57:45] <IchGuckLive> lots of fun and milling the own way is more fun
[11:58:28] <pfred1> to drive 2 optocouplers I need more current well theoretically my BOB could do it now but it is pushing the max output
[11:58:37] <pfred1> sp O
[11:58:50] <pfred1> so I'm just going to add some more gates to it to handle the load
[11:58:52] <IchGuckLive> pfred1:
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=45
[11:58:58] <IchGuckLive> 28.04
[11:59:41] <pfred1> that is a lot like my BOB but mine is self powered
[12:00:00] <pfred1> that one would need an external power source of regulated 5V
[12:00:01] <IchGuckLive> 5V relay capazit
[12:00:21] <pfred1> but I used the same ICs as buffers I think everyone does
[12:00:30] <IchGuckLive> yes
[12:00:41] <pfred1> you have to use the AHCTs
[12:00:53] <IchGuckLive> keep the wire short between 74hct and the optos
[12:00:55] <pfred1> oh wait he only has the ACTs
[12:01:07] <pfred1> AHCTs are nicer
[12:02:40] <pfred1> I see his are socketd so when yo ublow them out you can replace them that is a nice touch
[12:03:21] <pfred1> I only like machined turret sockets though not those cheap spring loaded things
[12:04:40] <IchGuckLive> agree on the socket
[12:05:00] <pfred1> the sockets on that board are more trouble than they're worth
[12:05:19] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: is there a space for the 4th axis in the elecronics
[12:06:49] <pfred1> IchGuckLive this is my BOB I made but like I said for some of the axises I have to split the buffers for more current
http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[12:07:43] <IchGuckLive> monster cable
[12:07:48] <pfred1> first I was thinking of adding the IC to the board because I have room but now I am thinking about just making a daughterboard because it will be easier
[12:07:51] <IchGuckLive> why this cooler
[12:08:24] <IchGuckLive> is this a 87l?
[12:08:25] <pfred1> why a heatsink on the voltage regulator?
[12:08:28] <IchGuckLive> 78
[12:08:52] <IchGuckLive> dont use this type of stuff
[12:08:53] <pfred1> mainly because i have a trash bag of them but the part can use heatsinking too
[12:09:16] <IchGuckLive> for BOB go at MC34063A
[12:09:43] <pfred1> I don't do surface mount for ethical reasons
[12:09:55] <pfred1> I'm not a pick and place machine
[12:10:39] <pfred1> through hole or go home!
[12:10:55] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:11:46] <pfred1> I worked at a board assembly house where I did surface mount I didn't like it
[12:12:11] <pfred1> the transistors with the 2 legs on one side I still have nightmares about doing them!
[12:13:13] <pfred1> it isn't that I can't do surface mount it is that I refuse to do surface mount
[12:13:29] <IchGuckLive> i know what you mean
[12:14:07] <pfred1> although some parts only come in that package
[12:14:40] <pfred1> those are parts that I don't think I need to use
[12:15:35] <Tom_itx> still livin in the dark ages?
[12:16:04] <IchGuckLive> tom getting dark here 2
[12:16:17] <pfred1> Tom_itx surface mount was not made to make the electronics hobbyist's life any easier you know?
[12:16:49] <Tom_itx> i actually think it is easier. you don't have to worry about all the holes or trimming off all the leads etc
[12:16:58] <pfred1> no it was purely a corporate profit driven decision
[12:17:03] <IchGuckLive> i go off for today going BBQ at 27Deg C outside !
[12:17:16] <Tom_itx> i just got a scope for the stuff i have a hard time seeing
[12:17:51] <pfred1> I passed up a stereo micriscope a couple of months ago that I should have picked up
[12:17:54] <pfred1> microscope even
[12:18:14] <Tom_itx> or even a webcam
[12:18:15] <pfred1> I guess the way to go today is a camera though
[12:18:38] <Tom_itx> i rather like my scope though
[12:18:47] <pfred1> oh the one i passed up was lab quality
[12:19:04] <pfred1> no rinky dink toy
[12:19:29] <pfred1> I think it may have been a bell and howell or something
[12:19:44] <Tom_itx> mine wasn't > $1k but it works fine
[12:19:59] <pfred1> but it was early in the day and I figured I'd see better things down the road so I left it where I saw it
[12:20:45] <L84Supper> I see stereo microscopes for cheap on ebay all the time
[12:20:50] <pfred1> as it is I have a pretty strong magnifying glass on an arm
[12:21:14] <pfred1> I think it is a projector lens or something
[12:21:32] <Tom_itx> 7 x 45 zoom
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[12:22:41] <pfred1> Tom_itx you need more PCs
[12:22:50] <Tom_itx> i know
[12:23:11] <pfred1> the keyboards are not stacked up high enough on each other
[12:23:17] <Tom_itx> there's one behind me too
[12:23:41] <pfred1> this is my humble bench
http://i.imgur.com/ko1RYQU.jpg
[12:23:44] <pfred1> I need more pliers
[12:24:04] <pfred1> 40 pair isn't quite cutting it
[12:25:10] <archivist> hand turning under a stereo zoom is fun
[12:25:12] <pfred1> oh check this out I made this for my junk pliers
http://i.imgur.com/dmfTy5S.jpg
[12:25:21] <pfred1> I had them all tossed into the top of a toolbox
[12:25:41] <pfred1> I call it the dish drainer style organizer
[12:25:46] <PetefromTn> Wow that is major nerd porn there man...
[12:25:58] <pfred1> PetefromTn isn't it cool?
[12:26:10] <PetefromTn> I hate to admit it but.....yeah.
[12:26:29] <pfred1> I did a lot of research on the web about different styles I liked it the best
[12:26:37] <Tom_itx> never keep them all in one place
[12:26:49] <pfred1> oh that is just the overflow pliers
[12:26:49] <Tom_itx> if you can't find your pliers you won't be able to find any of them
[12:27:09] <pfred1> I have my good pliers in a roller box
[12:27:12] <PetefromTn> I probably got as close to that many pliers but they are in my roll around tool chest..
[12:27:23] <Tom_itx> so are mine
[12:27:24] <pfred1> yes I have pliers in a roller box
[12:27:31] <Tom_itx> aside from the tool box i keep in my office
[12:27:34] <pfred1> 2 drawers of them
[12:27:54] <PetefromTn> I recently got a nice deal on one of those pro sorta boxes which is like 5 foot wide
[12:28:00] <pfred1> oh i just took a picture of all of my vise grips
http://i.imgur.com/tSO6pU2.jpg
[12:28:09] <pfred1> I thought i had more
[12:28:18] <PetefromTn> maybe five foot tall.
[12:28:23] <PetefromTn> Love that thing swallowed almost all my tools
[12:28:35] <pfred1> I got a nice deal on my tool box too I picked it up at the town dumps
[12:28:48] <PetefromTn> I still keep my old craftsman style vertical toolchest for my machinist tools
[12:28:58] <pfred1> yes it is a craftsman
[12:29:12] <pfred1> I have 2 kennedy boxes for machinist tools
[12:29:19] <PetefromTn> Mine's not, its an off brand but it is quite nice and i have had it for years.
[12:29:23] <pfred1> 7 drawer units?
[12:29:46] <pfred1> I don't know they are identical
[12:29:59] <pfred1> I got one at a machine shop I worked at the other one I got from the dumps
[12:30:29] <Tom_itx> kennedy boxes are nice for precision tools
[12:30:39] <PetefromTn> No mine is like 13 drawers and they are quite large, half are on one side and are longer than the other half.
[12:30:50] <PetefromTn> then there is a HUGE long drawer on top.
[12:31:16] <pfred1> Tom_itx I keep measuring stuff in one and bits and end mills and stuff in the other
[12:31:38] <PetefromTn> If you watch Chip Foose on OVerhaulin' those guys all have something similar only thiers are probably better than mine
[12:31:43] <pfred1> Chip Foose!
[12:31:59] <pfred1> didn't boyd Cottington kick him to the curb?
[12:32:00] <PetefromTn> yup the foosinator..
[12:32:15] <PetefromTn> Boyd Coddington is dead unfortunately...
[12:32:34] <pfred1> I have a book he wrote about building hotrods
[12:32:44] <PetefromTn> He would know..
[12:36:32] <PetefromTn> If he drove Formula1 cars I find that very hard to believe
[12:36:44] <pfred1> well he was mark's second back in the 60s
[12:36:54] <pfred1> then when mark died that was that
[12:37:08] <PetefromTn> IMHO ANyone who is given the opportunity to pilot one of those monsters is a giant among men.
[12:37:42] <PetefromTn> Especially back then when the cars were overpowered monsters with little in the way of brakes and suspension technology.
[12:37:43] <pfred1> I think i even knew mark when I was a little kid
[12:37:56] <pfred1> I think he came over the house
[12:38:09] <PetefromTn> Are you in UK?
[12:38:19] <pfred1> no I grew up where Mark did
[12:38:32] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Donohue
[12:38:32] <PetefromTn> Where was that?
[12:38:38] <pfred1> it says in the article
[12:38:51] <pfred1> Donohue grew up in Summit, New Jersey.
[12:38:58] <pfred1> I did too
[12:39:02] <PetefromTn> Oh a joysey boy..
[12:39:10] <pfred1> yuppers
[12:39:26] <pfred1> a yankee
[12:39:27] <PetefromTn> I've been to Cherry Hill..
[12:39:28] <PetefromTn> and Wildwood.
[12:39:28] <pfred1> I've been through cherry hill
[12:39:42] <PetefromTn> Almost married a beautiful Girl from there...
[12:39:46] <pfred1> only because it is on the TPK
[12:39:54] <pfred1> you can see the water tower from the highway
[12:40:02] <PetefromTn> LOL..
[12:40:06] <pfred1> well you can
[12:40:15] <PetefromTn> She worked at Cherry Hill Pizza next to the food lion.
[12:40:15] <pfred1> it says Cherry Hill on it
[12:40:30] <pfred1> I think it has a cluster of cherries painted on it now too
[12:40:38] <PetefromTn> We met in Disney World...
[12:40:47] <pfred1> I've been to Disney World
[12:40:56] <PetefromTn> Love Disney World..
[12:40:58] <pfred1> I was there the year after it opened
[12:41:08] <pfred1> it was very clean then
[12:41:15] <PetefromTn> Did ya get to meet Walt?
[12:41:21] <pfred1> the last time I was there it was like a slum
[12:41:39] <pfred1> the sidewalks were all dirty stained and cracked
[12:41:39] <PetefromTn> Really, I was there a year or two ago and it was quite nice.
[12:41:59] <pfred1> trust me it was really nice when it first opened
[12:42:08] <pfred1> when it was all new
[12:42:20] <PetefromTn> Isn't everything?
[12:42:36] <pfred1> I bet if walt was still alive it'd still be that nice today if not nicer
[12:42:45] <pfred1> walt didn't play games
[12:42:49] <PetefromTn> MOst likely...
[12:43:14] <pfred1> disney world isn't what it was supposed to be
[12:43:28] <pfred1> it was supposed to be a perfect community not so much a theme park
[12:43:45] <PetefromTn> The only thing I don't like about it now is the prices..
[12:43:56] <pfred1> nothing is cheap
[12:44:07] <PetefromTn> You can say that again.
[12:44:40] <pfred1> I was just reading an article about people hiring handicapped people for their passes so the ycan cut lines in the park
[12:44:44] <pfred1> doing that costs $500 a day
[12:45:01] <PetefromTn> what a joke.
[12:45:14] <pfred1> yeah Disney didn't think it was too funny when it got exposed
[12:45:46] <pfred1> you thought how you went to the park was expensive
[12:46:08] <PetefromTn> They just raised the prices again.
[12:46:22] <pfred1> but when you hire a handicapped guide you can do in one day what would take 5 to do
[12:46:44] <pfred1> so I guess it is worth it
[12:48:26] <PetefromTn> Well I got some Tig welding to do here...Better get something done here today.
[12:48:44] <pfred1> I'm out of argon
[12:48:55] <PetefromTn> Sucks... I hate it when that happens..
[12:48:56] <pfred1> now all I'm doing is stick welding
[12:49:07] <pfred1> my bottle has a leak
[12:49:09] <PetefromTn> Got DC?
[12:49:20] <pfred1> oh yes my welder does DC
[12:49:31] <PetefromTn> DC stick is great...
[12:49:33] <pfred1> it's OK
[12:49:40] <pfred1> DCEN
[12:49:57] <PetefromTn> I use it for REAL thick stuff all the time.
[12:50:03] <pfred1> I can do a better job with a TIG torch though
[12:50:17] <PetefromTn> Of course but not on thick stuff...
[12:51:01] <pfred1> I stick welded this last week
http://i.imgur.com/VA6JRLD.jpg
[12:51:17] <pfred1> if I ground it out and passed it again maybe I could have cleaned it up some more
[12:51:30] <PetefromTn> Cast?....
[12:51:34] <pfred1> you bet
[12:51:43] <pfred1> worse than that very old casting
[12:51:51] <pfred1> like over 100 years old
[12:52:34] <pfred1> in mint condition that plane would be worth north of $400
[12:53:23] <pfred1> it is a Stanley No.2
[12:53:28] <PetefromTn> Not to me... I used to do high end custom woodworking, now I do metal..
[12:53:31] <archivist> just looks like a standard broken plane
[12:53:49] <pfred1> archivist it is half the size of a common No.4
[12:54:01] <pfred1> I should take a picture of it next to a regular plane
[12:54:46] <archivist> you can get as new welding done on cast iron
[12:54:58] <pfred1> like the piece of wood behind it in this picture is about a half of an inch wide
http://i.imgur.com/kNTYdYY.jpg
[12:55:42] <archivist> get this company to weld it for you
http://www.castironwelding.co.uk/
[12:55:59] <pfred1> archivist I could just grind it out and TIG it if I cared
[12:56:16] <pfred1> I even have the cast iron nickle rod
[12:56:23] <pfred1> nickel even
[12:56:30] <archivist> wrong way to fix
[12:56:43] <pfred1> how so?
[12:57:00] <archivist> that company uses cast sticks and gas welds
[12:57:10] <archivist> seriously better
[12:57:18] <pfred1> I have TIG rod made to weld cast iron with
[12:57:41] <pfred1> guy at a supply house gave me a few because htey are insanely expensive to buy
[12:57:44] <archivist> are you heating the whole thing first
[12:57:52] <pfred1> no preheat
[12:58:00] <archivist> wrong
[12:58:05] <pfred1> it didn't crack
[12:58:09] <archivist> you will get cracking
[12:58:15] <pfred1> well it didn't
[12:58:22] <PetefromTn> you got lucky...
[12:58:25] <pfred1> this isn't the first peice of cast iron I've ever welded
[12:58:42] <pfred1> oldest piece
[12:58:55] <PetefromTn> I often have to Tig weld cast pieces for customers and a good preheat and a slow cooling down is real important to avoid cracking.
[12:58:55] <pfred1> thng is from before 1895
[12:59:09] <PetefromTn> Sometimes it STILL cracks anyways.
[12:59:32] <pfred1> well it was so filthy I didn't expect much out of it anyways
[12:59:35] <PetefromTn> I have recently been Tig welding cast bronze Churchbells for a customer and they are really HUGE..
[12:59:50] <pfred1> you have a water cooled torch?
[12:59:55] <PetefromTn> I have to spend an hour or more just heating the area before I tig weld it
[13:00:07] <PetefromTn> then it still sometimes cracks.
[13:00:15] <PetefromTn> Yeah but I seldom use it.
[13:00:21] <pfred1> maybe you should just braze it?
[13:00:43] <archivist> PetefromTn for smaller bells, we silver soldered some
[13:00:53] <pfred1> yeah i have silver solder
[13:01:16] <pfred1> next you'll be repairing the Liberty Bell
[13:01:28] <archivist> getting a broken clock bell to ring again :)
[13:01:54] <pfred1> kinda dumb one of our nation's symbols is a freaking cracked bell
[13:02:00] <PetefromTn> Actually this is what the customer wants. He actually restores these huge bells
[13:02:15] <PetefromTn> He has a special van equipped to move them
[13:02:26] <pfred1> hard to find old bells in europe
[13:02:34] <PetefromTn> It has a huge sliding gantry in it.
[13:02:40] <Jymmm> pfred1: Nah, give it character.... Broken but still goin
[13:02:44] <pfred1> they always get melted down to make bullets out of
[13:03:07] <pfred1> do they ever ring the Liberty Bell?
[13:03:18] <pfred1> or are they worried it will crack more?
[13:03:45] <PetefromTn> Some of these bells are really THICK.
[13:03:58] <pfred1> get good scrap money for them
[13:04:00] <PetefromTn> I often have to grind out the crack almost to breakthru
[13:04:05] <archivist> look closely at this bells hanging arrangement
http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=1455&subject=10743
[13:04:17] <PetefromTn> and then tig weld, let it slowly cool a bit, tig some more on top of that. etc. etc.
[13:04:24] <pfred1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Bell
[13:04:56] <pfred1> The bell attracted huge crowds wherever it went, additional cracking occurred and pieces were chipped away by souvenir hunters. The last such journey occurred in 1915, after which the city refused further requests.
[13:05:27] <pfred1> never underestimate the tackiness of your fellow American I guess
[13:05:52] <pfred1> how big a chip did yo uget off of it Earl?
[13:06:47] <PetefromTn> cya guys..
[13:07:20] <pfred1> how about that the Liberty Bell was cast twice
[13:09:40] <Crashdemon> good evening
[13:09:53] <pfred1> hi
[13:10:43] <Crashdemon> my z-axis loosing steps between up and down. any suggestions?
[13:10:56] <Crashdemon> current lowering is disabled
[13:11:35] <pfred1> stepper?
[13:11:50] <archivist> add some counter balance, get better steppers, reduce your speeds and acceleration values
[13:12:10] <pfred1> yeah if stepper I was going to suggese slower acceleration or slower top speed
[13:12:11] <FinboySlick> Reduce microstepping.
[13:12:18] <pfred1> reduce?
[13:12:36] <FinboySlick> Well, less microstepping is usually more hold torque, no?
[13:12:43] <archivist> move to half step
[13:12:53] <pfred1> they say missing steps not slipping
[13:13:25] <pfred1> as far as holding torque goes what step mode shouldn't matter
[13:13:38] <pfred1> steppers aren't moving when they are holding
[13:14:05] <Crashdemon> tried slower accel. + speed, no improvement
[13:14:14] <archivist> Crashdemon,
http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[13:14:35] <Crashdemon> i'm using microstepping by default
[13:14:47] <pfred1> well there are different microstepping modes
[13:15:01] <pfred1> half, quarter, eigth etc.
[13:15:22] <pfred1> I've seen up to 256
[13:15:55] <Crashdemon> half stepping
[13:16:18] <Crashdemon> isel isert stepper 3455
[13:16:48] <Crashdemon> in combination with isel driver / ctrl.
[13:17:06] <pfred1> Crashdemon what kind of motor drivers do you have?
[13:18:03] <Crashdemon> l298
[13:18:11] <pfred1> hmmm
[13:18:42] <pfred1> they only have full or half step mode don't they?
[13:19:06] <Crashdemon> jap, thats right
[13:19:46] <Crashdemon> phase current to low?
[13:19:51] <pfred1> they are kind of old today
[13:20:00] <archivist> use as much current as you can
[13:20:06] <pfred1> are you running the highest voltage you can?
[13:20:22] <pfred1> they're good to what like 34V?
[13:20:46] <archivist> a 2A motor needs 2A, and for speed use the max voltage you can
[13:20:57] <Crashdemon> im using the isel controller out of the box, i'm not sure wich voltage they run at
[13:20:59] <pfred1> well they are choppers
[13:21:17] <pfred1> bipolar choppers
[13:22:16] <pfred1> Crashdemon to get the best performance you can out of stepper motors and drivers you need to run them at the highest voltage the drivers can handle
[13:22:20] <pfred1> that is a universal given with the things
[13:23:08] <pfred1> with a PWM chopper driver the voltage doesn't really matter as far as what the motors can handle it is all current
[13:23:15] <Crashdemon> yes i know, the l297 controlles / limits the current through each phase
[13:23:20] <pfred1> right
[13:23:45] <pfred1> as long as you don't exceed the insulation breakdown voltage of the coil or the current rating you are OK
[13:23:46] <archivist> do not worry about warm/reasonably warm motors
[13:23:57] <pfred1> yeah stepper motors get cooking hot
[13:24:42] <pfred1> unless you have hild current reduction
[13:24:44] <Crashdemon> ok, i will try to increase the phase current
[13:24:46] <pfred1> hold even
[13:24:52] <archivist> my 5 axis has one motor without enough heatsink, it makes people jump when they lean on it
[13:24:58] <pfred1> well not the current
[13:25:06] <pfred1> you need to increase the voltage to the drive
[13:25:23] <pfred1> you see as a stepper motor runs the faster it goes the less current it can draw
[13:25:37] <pfred1> it has to do with the inductive reeactance of the motor coils
[13:25:56] <pfred1> as you run faster yoru dwell time on the coils goes down
[13:26:10] <pfred1> that is why you have to pump more voltage through them
[13:26:31] <pfred1> just to try to increase the current
[13:26:51] <Crashdemon> the voltage is fixed!
[13:26:55] <pfred1> but yo ucan't increase the driver current because at slower speeds you will over current
[13:27:19] <pfred1> what do you mean the voltage is fixed?
[13:27:26] <Crashdemon> as i said i'm using stepper + manufacture controller
[13:27:36] <pfred1> the voltage is whatever your power supply outputs
[13:28:19] <archivist> the current is whatever he sets the load R at
[13:28:23] <pfred1> well there are motors drivers and supplies
[13:28:39] <pfred1> archivist yeah but yo ucan't exceed the motor's current rating
[13:28:46] <archivist> I know
[13:28:58] <pfred1> well the only place yo ucan fool around is your input voltage
[13:29:00] <Crashdemon> this means i've a rack slide +230V AC comes in and the voltage will be down transformed to, i think +30v dc
[13:29:56] <archivist> 30 is reasonable for L298 iirc
[13:29:56] <pfred1> yeah if you're already running at 30V 34V isn't going to set the world on fire for you
[13:30:31] <pfred1> I mean it'd help a little on the top end but I'm not even sure if it would be noticable
[13:31:30] <pfred1> OK how many wires are the motors?
[13:31:34] <pfred1> 4 or 8?
[13:31:48] <archivist> or 6
[13:31:54] <pfred1> nah that is unipolar
[13:32:06] <Crashdemon> 2-phase motor
[13:32:11] <archivist> 5 is only unipolar
[13:32:14] <pfred1> it can still be 4 or 8
[13:32:19] <archivist> or 6
[13:32:20] <pfred1> unipolar is 6
[13:32:35] <pfred1> well maybe you can combine the commons
[13:32:36] <archivist> you can run a 6 wire as bipolar
[13:32:43] <pfred1> yeah half coil
[13:33:03] <archivist> no two in series
[13:33:11] <Crashdemon> one moment
[13:34:28] <pfred1> my machine has bipolar and unipolar but I drive each with the correct type of drive
[13:34:43] <pfred1> I've only read about unipolars ad bipolars I never tried it
[13:34:46] <Crashdemon> 1,8 deg, 2 coils
[13:34:59] <pfred1> they still have wires coming out of them
[13:35:10] <pfred1> they either have 4 or 8
[13:35:33] <pfred1> if they have 4 there is nothing you can do
[13:35:34] <pfred1> if they have 8 there is something you might be able to do
[13:36:10] <pfred1> an 8 wire motor is a so called universal stepper motor
[13:36:38] <pfred1> which can be wired up as unipolar or bipolar series or bipolar parallel
[13:37:01] <pfred1> bipolar parallel is the highest performing configuration of the 3
[13:37:52] <pfred1> most folks do want the highest performance they can get too
[13:38:24] <Loetmichel> .... if the driver can cope with the current and resistance of two parallel windings ;-)
[13:38:32] <pfred1> although a series wired motor will run faster
[13:38:37] <pfred1> well there is that too
[13:38:47] <pfred1> if your driver can't drive it in parallel you have to run series
[13:39:03] <pfred1> it still might perform better under driven in parallel though
[13:40:02] <pfred1> series really has no torque at any higher speeds
[13:41:42] <pfred1> I have to go out and feed my little birds
[17:07:04] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:08:28] * Tom_itx lights one of JT-Shop's cannons to stir things up a bit
[17:10:57] <andypugh> it does seem surprisingly quiet. Theory: all the usual suspects are buying "family credits" before the Wichita week.
[17:12:37] <jdh> you going?
[17:13:30] <andypugh> I am, but there is no family to placate in my case.
[17:14:07] <jdh> that's quite a trip from your area
[17:14:33] <andypugh> Yes, it is a lot of tedious flying.
[17:14:42] <andypugh> But it beats walking.
[17:15:58] <Tom_itx> andypugh, where did you decide to stay?
[17:16:05] <andypugh> Hampton
[17:16:21] <Tom_itx> that's right on the corner of the highway and west
[17:16:34] <Tom_itx> so you won't have far to go to either place
[17:16:48] <andypugh> Yes, seemed sensible to be within walking distance (even if walking is a felony in the US)
[17:17:04] <Tom_itx> lots of eatery nearby as well
[17:17:16] <Tom_itx> all along west st to the North
[17:17:34] <Tom_itx> his shop is to the south
[17:18:43] <Tom_itx> starbucks right across west st if you're into coffee
[17:19:05] <andypugh> I am fond of coffee, but not especially fond of Starbucks.
[17:19:30] <Tom_itx> me, not so much
[17:20:06] <Tom_itx> good chinese up the road on west
[17:20:16] <Tom_itx> buffet
[17:21:31] <Tom_itx> do you know what hours he keeps at the shop?
[17:21:40] <Tom_itx> not sure when to show up...
[17:25:57] <Tom_itx> probably a 2 mi walk or so
[17:26:27] <Tom_itx> maybe a bit more
[17:28:37] <andypugh> Can you see anything unexpected in this photo?
https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5887238091795495042&oid=108164504656404380542
[17:29:48] <andypugh> Hang on, let me see if I can figure out a way to get the direct url...
[17:30:06] <jdh> all I see is a google plus signup thing
[17:30:25] <andypugh> Try this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pgBitvUmSwYcDO-fZaQeh9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[17:31:04] <jdh> ballscrew on a bike?
[17:31:28] <andypugh> :-)
[17:32:07] <andypugh> I needed to get it to a lathe with sufficient spindle bore to machine the ends.
[17:32:32] <andypugh> An old Colcheser Student and a CBN onsert worked _beautifully_.
[17:33:55] <andypugh> One of my friends was in the workshop at the same time and videoed it, a yellow-hot stream of swarf coming off (1600rpm).
[17:34:49] <Tom_itx> reminds me of watching that Mori Seki with the shell mill cleaning off some steel plate
[17:34:49] <andypugh> You don't need a super high-tech lathe to do hard-turning, anything made properly and solid enough is fine.
[17:36:12] <andypugh> (But it was very nice of Yamaha to make a suitable space on the R1 for carrying ballscrews)
[17:43:54] <andypugh> This is odd. If you search ebay (US) select worldwide and look for a Rivett 608 you do _not_ find the one that I am trying to resist buying.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivett-608-for-parts-or-restoration/321137853023
[17:44:58] <Tom_itx> resistance is futile
[17:47:42] <andypugh> I had decided that it was a bad CNC conversion candidate, but there is no gearbox to waste. Flat-belt and VFD is actually probably quite a reasonable system. The entire cross-slide _and_ top-slide pop off with a single lever, to I could swap between CNC and manual slides instantly. The only real problem is that I think that there is almost no room around the leadscrew (it actually uses a single-half nut in original spec
[17:48:10] <andypugh> And they are _beautifully_ made machines.
[17:48:58] <andypugh> Ideally I would make an oak cabinet stand for it to contain the PC...
[17:49:41] <Tom_itx> i took one of my old pc's out to the shop for the sherline but it's taking up too much space
[17:50:12] <jdh> A BBB would be perfect for that
[17:50:23] <Tom_itx> probably so
[17:50:27] <andypugh> For the current price I am tempted to buy it _then_ decide if I want it.
[17:50:35] <jdh> need a mesa interface for BBB
[17:50:41] <ssi> I'm working on something like that
[17:50:42] <Tom_itx> it's not a bad price
[17:50:46] <ssi> I have a fpga cape for it
[17:51:16] <Tom_itx> the D510/525 dissappeared too fast
[17:52:19] <Tom_itx> i have to run 8.04 on the old pc but it seems to work
[18:02:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?animate=true&location=USKS0523
[18:24:50] <andypugh> Not sure what that shows? SOme sort of chess board?
[18:25:06] <Tom_itx> not getting a weather map?
[18:25:21] <ssi> lol
[18:25:21] <Tom_itx> it's heading in for later this evening
[18:25:54] <Tom_itx> ict
[18:25:55] <andypugh> It's not anything I recognise as cartography, basically.
[18:26:27] <Tom_itx> oh those are counties
[18:26:34] <ssi> headed right for midcontinent :P
[18:26:35] <andypugh> Maps are made of wiggly lines, largely defined by cows, in my experience.
[18:26:35] <Tom_itx> states are darker outlines
[18:26:40] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:27:11] <Tom_itx> but we're flat like a checker board here :)
[18:27:20] <ssi> andypugh: our flatlands have few landmarks to use as natural borders
[18:27:24] <ssi> so there's lots of square ones
[18:27:36] <andypugh> Yes. I think that is going to feel very strange.
[18:27:42] <Tom_itx> heh i bet
[18:27:57] <Tom_itx> lots of wheat
[18:28:06] <ssi> still plenty of cows
[18:28:09] <Tom_itx> when you fly in you will see alot of circles from the air
[18:28:15] <ssi> but our cows don't stand on the sides of hills like yours do
[18:28:18] <ssi> cause there's no hills
[18:28:19] <ssi> hahaha
[18:28:21] <Tom_itx> those are irrigation sprinklers
[18:28:51] <ssi> oh NO
[18:29:36] <andypugh> I am more used to places that look like this:
https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.613529,-1.916613&spn=0.028463,0.055919&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.613529,-1.916613&panoid=uYuPXBj7FsRoqagW0_t09A&cbp=12,135,,0,0
[18:30:14] <andypugh> Industrial West Yorkshire (that's a wool mill at the bottom of the valley)
[18:30:34] <ssi> andypugh: the area where I live isn't too far off from that
[18:30:39] <ssi> but it's a bit less... pastoral
[18:30:41] <ssi> and more hillbilly
[18:30:42] <ssi> :D
[18:31:01] <Tom_itx> we have the flint hills but not quite like that
[18:32:29] <ssi> I can't figure out how to get into that street view mode
[18:32:42] <andypugh> If you follw that road down to the sharp left-hand bend where the tree is you can see where the wall got demolished by a lost trucker. They had a low-loader (to transport a crane). They had no way to turn round, and dragged the whole thing through the wall/bend/tree.
[18:33:25] <andypugh> ssi: You see the little orange mannikin on the zoom bar in map mode? Drag him to the stret where you want to stand.
[18:33:32] <ssi> ahh
[18:34:23] <ssi> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=33.979827,-84.572979&hl=en&ll=33.983504,-84.578284&spn=0.008976,0.013347&sll=33.979827,-84.572979&sspn=0.008977,0.013347&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.983504,-84.578284&panoid=fd1v73TrBnFYioO7eiJBBw&cbp=12,122.02,,0,-5.57
[18:34:53] <andypugh> They would never have got through,
https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.612521,-1.91514&spn=0.028463,0.055919&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.612562,-1.91496&panoid=l8QJ2JWhYYJIfRXutMINcQ&cbp=12,90,,0,22.5&z=15 is a really quite definitive 6'6" width restriction.
[18:35:48] <andypugh> ssi: Interesting fences. We just pile up rocks :-)
[18:36:05] <Tom_itx> we have some places like that but not many
[18:36:12] <Tom_itx> further east
[18:36:18] <ssi> andypugh: that's a civil war battlefield
[18:36:55] <andypugh> Ah, ok.
[18:37:26] <andypugh> A "Civil war" what on odd idea. "No, I insist, you shoot first, it's only fair"
[18:37:58] <ssi> civ·il war
[18:37:58] <ssi> Noun
[18:37:58] <ssi> A war between citizens of the same country.
[18:37:59] <ssi> :D
[18:38:34] <ssi> The term is a calque of the Latin bellum civile which was used to refer to the various civil wars of the Roman Republic in the 1st century BC.
[18:38:37] <andypugh> Oh, just one more pic from that road you might have missed: The trucker ignored this:
https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.613717,-1.916556&spn=0.028463,0.055919&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.61363,-1.916595&panoid=B728Dj0aFJgEabZJ90lftg&cbp=12,199.59,,1,9.04&z=15
[18:38:57] <ssi> ahahaha
[18:39:45] <andypugh> I am currently reading a book about the war of 1812. Which apparently the US generally claims to have won, despite not doing :-)
[18:40:55] <ssi> well that's just like, your opinion man
[18:43:28] <andypugh> Interesting that Britain seemed keen on "another India" with the natives Indians running the place, but paying taxes. What a different continent that would have been. (And, at the time, a very empty one)
[19:09:56] <JT-Shop> only one post on the forum all day?
[19:11:45] <ssi> lazy saturday
[19:12:29] <JT-Shop> we just got back from a benifit poker run
[19:12:44] <ssi> what flavor poker run?
[19:12:49] <ssi> what vehicle
[19:12:56] <JT-Shop> Spyder
[19:13:06] <ssi> as in... convertible sports car?
[19:13:12] <ssi> I used to do airplane poker runs
[19:13:22] <JT-Shop> motorcycle type
[19:13:25] <ssi> ah
[19:21:21] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/RS622-03.jpg
[19:21:52] <ssi> haha it's one of those
[19:22:01] <JT-Shop> aye
[19:22:13] <ssi> super weird
[19:22:22] <JT-Shop> what's that?
[19:22:32] <ssi> the front-wheel trikes
[19:22:33] <ssi> are super weird
[19:22:52] <JT-Shop> yes they do attract attention
[19:24:03] <Tom_itx> what sort of mileage?
[19:24:38] <JT-Shop> http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jthornton/spyder-rts
[19:24:43] <andypugh> What kind of Poker?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireplace_poker
[19:25:27] <JT-Shop> you draw a card at each stop and they write it on your card. The best and worst hand usually get some kind of prize.
[19:25:51] <JT-Shop> it's more of a fun way to donate to something needy and have fun with friends
[19:27:12] <ssi> was mostly an excuse to burn hundreds of dollars worth of avgas for us :P
[19:27:27] <JT-Shop> that sounds right
[19:27:28] <ssi> when the $100 hamburger just isn't impractical enough...
[19:27:30] <ssi> poker run!
[19:27:47] <JT-Shop> dad used to go to breakfast runs in his planes
[19:27:54] <ssi> yea, they're fun
[19:28:03] <ssi> I used to do flyouts a lot with the EAA group
[19:28:06] <ssi> but mostly they're dickbags
[19:28:09] <ssi> so I stopped
[19:28:34] <JT-Shop> that does tend to run folks away when people are not nice
[19:29:01] <JT-Shop> the bunch we hang with are all fun people and the Spyder people are the best
[19:29:12] <JT-Shop> well maybe except for me
[19:31:27] <ssi> haha
[19:41:38] <JT-Shop> itunes sucks
[19:55:23] <andypugh> itunes is OK if you consider it as a database frontend not a filing system.
[19:56:14] <andypugh> (and it is tending to improve, though not asymptotically)
[20:04:47] <L84Supper> Do you like coffee or Starbucks? :)
[20:05:13] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:07:41] <andypugh> So, for reflowing SMT:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280807507869 or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170976337578 ?
[20:08:25] <L84Supper> without any tweaking RT-Preempt on an AMD 880 chipset + Phenom-II X4 3.4GHz was ~20uS
[20:09:10] <ssi> andypugh:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034145369/refloleo
[20:09:18] <pcw_home> Thats really good
[20:09:22] <L84Supper> I'd go for the second one (toaster oven)
[20:11:59] <L84Supper> pcw_home: which Mesa PCI or PCIe FPGA board has the most amount of free gates (after whats used for PCI)
[20:12:30] <andypugh> ssi: Not sure what value I get from my $59. (especially as I already have a programmable kiln/furnace controller I could use, which has the relays built-in, and cost £10)
[20:12:41] <pcw_home> Probably 3X20 or 5I24
[20:12:47] <ssi> andypugh: never mind then :)
[20:13:07] <ssi> I don't have a kiln controller, but I did recently get a kiln, so a controller would be nice to have
[20:15:14] <andypugh> ssi:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170976337578 maybe?
[20:15:47] <pcw_home> I have a kiln that has a cone melting shutoff. I guess thats a controller
[20:15:47] <ssi> dunno
[20:16:09] <ssi> pcw_home: I got cones with the kiln, but I dunno if there's some kind of sorcery that shuts off the heat
[20:16:23] <L84Supper> pcw_home: I don't see the 5i24
[20:16:38] <pcw_home> Not something you want to forget
[20:17:20] <pcw_home> 5I24 is new (well old but took me a while to get around to finishing the layout)
[20:17:38] <L84Supper> trying to find it on the website
[20:17:59] <ssi> what is it?
[20:18:19] <pcw_home> its a low profile PCI card like the 5I25 but 72 I/O and XC6SLX16 or XC6SLX25
[20:19:00] <L84Supper> how soon could 2-3 be in my hands?
[20:19:05] <pcw_home> sort of low cost 5I20 replacement
[20:19:17] <ssi> uses the same 50 pin connectors?
[20:19:28] <pcw_home> Yes
[20:19:32] <Tom_itx> andypugh, get a 4 element toaster oven
[20:19:35] <Tom_itx> for reflow
[20:19:45] <Tom_itx> more even heat than 2
[20:19:57] <pcw_home> It will be a few weeks at least
[20:20:09] <L84Supper> it will also depend on the size of the board you want to reflow
[20:20:16] <Tom_itx> andypugh,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/toaster_oven_index.php
[20:20:23] <Tom_itx> works good
[20:20:33] <L84Supper> pcw_home: ok, I'll check back, but I need a few things yesterday
[20:20:54] <ssi> L84Supper: what are you trying to do with it?
[20:21:38] <L84Supper> ssi: 7 axis of servo and some image processing
[20:21:45] <ssi> see
[20:21:48] <ssi> I see even
[20:21:53] <pcw_home> If you want a fancy FPGA card for linuxCNC you might want someone elses (we dont do fancy)
[20:22:16] <L84Supper> just checking
[20:22:36] <L84Supper> it doesn't all have to be on the same board
[20:23:16] <pcw_home> If you need high throughput you also need a bus mastering card (if its PCI/PCIE)
[20:23:47] <L84Supper> also controlling printedheads with lots of LVDS channels
[20:24:02] <pcw_home> Yeah so you need bus mastering
[20:24:30] <pcw_home> how many I/O?
[20:24:53] <L84Supper> we can use multiple boards
[20:26:00] <pcw_home> The 3X20 might do but its no spring Chicken (Spartan3 based).
[20:26:39] <pcw_home> might be able to mount it on the printhead
[20:27:03] <L84Supper> each printhead has ~100 LVDS lines
[20:27:21] <pcw_home> lines or pairs?
[20:27:45] <L84Supper> so it depends on how many heads, lines so ~50 pairs
[20:28:37] <pcw_home> the 3X20 could do that (and pipe the PCIE up the printhead cable)
[20:28:46] <L84Supper> ~1200 nozzles firing up to 50KHz
[20:29:24] <pcw_home> 60 mbits/sec not very fast actually
[20:29:47] <L84Supper> the real bandwidth hog is the image processing
[20:30:41] <pcw_home> FPGA does compression?
[20:31:01] <L84Supper> the system scans for defects and then reworks those areas
[20:31:01] <ssi> what kind of printheads are these?
[20:32:08] <L84Supper> ssi: the type you find in the fastest commercial printers, web rates in the meters per second @ 1200 dpi
[20:32:19] <ssi> I see
[20:32:38] <L84Supper> some have 5k nozzles ea
[20:33:48] <L84Supper> pcw_home: the camera does lossless compression internally
[20:34:43] <L84Supper> we just set levels and look for contrast out of range for defects, like a shiny scratch on a black surface
[20:39:13] <L84Supper> ssi:
http://global.kyocera.com/prdct/tfc/inkjet_printhead/
[20:39:54] <ssi> neat
[20:40:36] <L84Supper> ~$7500 ea
[20:41:54] <andypugh> I was about to suggest that they looked not inexpensive.
[20:42:58] <L84Supper> vs $300 ea
http://www.xaar.com/xaar128.aspx
[20:43:13] <andypugh> Surely full A4-width is an obvious next step?
[20:43:27] <L84Supper> they have made some
[20:44:03] <andypugh> You can just imagine the paper shooting out as the only moving part.
[20:44:21] <L84Supper> just a sec for the video
[20:44:50] <andypugh> Though I see a little pic there of sets of three overlapping, which I guess may be more cost-effective.
[20:45:55] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUTZRrQfy-E there is an a4 version as well
[20:46:17] <L84Supper> 0:42
[20:47:59] <L84Supper> prices will drop like a rock once we start printing printheads
[20:51:18] <andypugh> Aposite comment on the video "Finally, great printers just as paper really is becoming obsolete" :-)
[20:52:40] <L84Supper> the inkjet printhead manufacturers were lazy and just sat on patents, just like the 3dp patent holders
[20:53:17] <L84Supper> not much changed in 20 years, now that the patents are all expiring it's taking off
[20:54:10] <L84Supper> their business model was control, secrecy and milk every penny out of their old limited tech
[20:55:53] <L84Supper> silverbrook / memjet has thousands of patents on MEMS printheads, but MEMS as they applied it just uses silicon for fabrication
[20:58:29] <L84Supper> so if you can print micro-machines that aren't based old silicon fab techniques the field is wide open
[20:58:54] <L84Supper> or just move production to China
[21:01:51] <L84Supper> andypugh: the down side to having a really wide head is if one nozzle clogs you lose the whole head
[21:02:05] <andypugh> Ah, yes.
[21:03:14] <L84Supper> some printers have redundant heads just for this purpose but now you have 2x heads
[21:04:04] <andypugh> I think I saw something in a linked video which had spare heads and hot-swap
[21:04:12] <FinboySlick> I wonder how we could go with OLED displays if we stuck to monochrome.
[21:04:32] <FinboySlick> How much resolution I mean.
[21:05:21] <L84Supper> it's easy to print OLED pixels @ 600 dpi (newsprint)
[21:06:03] <L84Supper> but again it's not the tech "It's the patents" that is holding things back
[21:06:06] <FinboySlick> If the output and wavelength is right, it could make for pretty cheap 3D printers.
[21:07:02] <FinboySlick> Things like retina displays and hyper-resolution are pushing the bar in the right direction for it anyway.
[21:08:59] <L84Supper> it's easy to print large high res monochrome panels
[21:09:03] <FinboySlick> At least, things literally coming out of the screen :)
[21:09:24] <FinboySlick> :s/least/last/
[21:18:55] <PetefromTn> evening all...
[21:34:45] <ssi> peeet
[21:35:39] <PetefromTn> ssi Hey man...
[21:35:45] <ssi> whats up
[21:36:41] <PetefromTn> Meh not a lot, working on that huge pig roasting grill some more today. Customer came by and gave me some more cash that I did not ask for and seemed very happy with the results.
[21:37:16] <PetefromTn> I am running out of time tho the big shindig is this coming saturday. My whole family is invited so I need to hurry the hell up and finish this cooker.
[21:37:25] <PetefromTn> What's up with you?
[21:37:59] <ssi> nothing major
[21:38:02] <ssi> watching a movie
[21:38:17] <PetefromTn> Anything good?
[21:39:55] <ssi> moonrise kingdom
[21:41:16] <PetefromTn> Never heard of it.
[21:41:34] <PetefromTn> Been doing some Cad drawings in 3d for the first time thol
[21:41:41] <ssi> sweet :D
[21:41:51] <PetefromTn> Trying to learn my way around in the 3d realm here.
[21:44:57] <PetefromTn> Drew this up last night...
http://snag.gy/Ytd3r.jpg
[21:45:21] <ssi> looks good
[21:46:03] <L84Supper> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/06/06/creating-electrodes-via-two-photon-polymerization/
[21:46:10] <L84Supper> ssi: ^^
[21:47:01] <ssi> awesome
[21:47:10] <L84Supper> this is where things are headed for 3DP on the sub-micron scale, 100nm features are common
[21:47:53] <L84Supper> printing micromachines like printheads, motors, valves etc
[21:50:06] <L84Supper> http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=26907 Two-Photon Polymerization: A New Approach to Micromachining
[22:01:27] <PetefromTn> Man I really need to make up some kinda high speed spindle for my machine.
[22:01:51] <PetefromTn> Been asked by three different people about engravings like I used to make.
[22:02:55] <L84Supper> water cooled
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-3KW-NEW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-SPECIAL-FOR-METAL-CE-6-/181068857606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a288b8106
[22:04:54] <PetefromTn> I thought about those but don't know where the hell I would mount it.
[22:05:20] <L84Supper> what machine?
[22:05:34] <PetefromTn> my Cincinatti arrow 500 VMC
[22:07:02] <L84Supper> http://www.gaec.com/images/k12631a.jpg is that head a quick-change with just the twist of a knob? :)
[22:07:52] <PetefromTn> that's my machine alright but not sure what you mean?
[22:08:05] <PetefromTn> Its a Cat40 tooling setup with power drawbar and toolchanger
[22:08:49] <L84Supper> I know, just kidding about being able to swap out the spindle in 2 seconds
[22:12:11] <PetefromTn> sure would be sweet if you could...
[22:15:41] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: is there a way to get gcode from freecad?
[22:16:08] <PetefromTn> skunkworks Well that depends...
[22:16:17] <PetefromTn> What kinda G code are you looking for?
[22:16:39] <skunkworks> well - for starters - 2.5d
[22:16:57] <PetefromTn> I mean if you want to run a 3d printer they have apparently already got a plugin or something that works
[22:17:18] <skunkworks> oh - no. (well - not yet) it would be for milling
[22:17:34] <PetefromTn> If you want to CNC mill or rout, they are currently working on a 3d Cam workbench but it is not ready yet.
[22:17:46] <skunkworks> right now I use acad12 and ace converter or hand coding gcode. :)
[22:17:49] <PetefromTn> I plan to use Cambam because it has 3d toolpathing.
[22:18:06] <PetefromTn> I don't hand code anything but the most simple stuff
[22:19:16] <PetefromTn> I am quite liking Freecad so far tho. I have been able to draw stuff much quicker and easier in 3d than anything else I have tried.
[22:19:43] <skunkworks> cool - I am not good at parametric cad..
[22:20:13] <PetefromTn> The only thing that kinda bums is that it is metric native units. But I have a macro that you can run at the end that will scale it up as well as a tweak that allows for four position decimal point dimensions
[22:20:29] <PetefromTn> It really is quite easy once you play with it a little bit.
[22:21:09] <PetefromTn> Also when you are drawing something complex in Freecad or any cad really it helps to occasionally remember to save your work in case of a system crash or power loss.
[22:22:11] <jdh> no auto saves?
[22:22:18] <PetefromTn> I have been haunting the Freecad IRC and there are a couple guys over there who really know the program well and are quite helpful. Nice to have a FREE program that is so powerful and has some real time support you don't have to pay for.
[22:22:30] <PetefromTn> Dunno never tried it yet, probably..
[22:23:17] <PetefromTn> I posted a screenshot of the last project I drew up the page a tad.
[22:23:52] <jdh> save early, save often. My mantra since my first computer class in the 80s
[22:24:17] <PetefromTn> yup LOL it can save you some heartache that is for sure.
[22:24:29] <PetefromTn> http://snag.gy/uMflk.jpg
[22:24:33] <PetefromTn> There it is..
[22:24:59] <PetefromTn> Not bad for less than a week with a brand new to me program and basically no experience with 3d cad LOL
[22:25:00] <jdh> cool. looks (superficially at least) like heeks
[22:25:27] <PetefromTn> Dunno never was able to get heeks...tried to download it but could not.
[22:25:48] <PetefromTn> Apparently Heekscad is also no longer being supported or worked on
[22:27:43] <PetefromTn> Its apparently much like other 3d Parametric modelers with history based modeling tree and using 2d sketches to create 3d models.
[22:28:33] <PetefromTn> They are still working on the assembly workbench it apparently is nearing release but I honestly don't really need it. I am more interested to see what they come up with for their free integrated cam.
[22:38:57] <PetefromTn> http://snag.gy/uMflk.jpg
[22:39:17] <PetefromTn> Do you guys thing this is a crazy idea or maybe might just work ..
[23:28:47] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, acad12 is pretty dated
[23:31:23] <jdh> 2d cad hasn't changed much
[23:48:30] <Tom_itx> no
[23:48:51] <Tom_itx> iirc 12 was 3d
[23:49:27] <Tom_itx> i knew a couple guys that loved acad
[23:49:41] <Tom_itx> used NC Polaris with it
[23:51:26] <Tom_itx> is that pete's pendant?
