#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-06-03

[00:06:25] <GammaX> I think I need a better encoder for spindle...
[01:31:38] <Tecan> how do i move one inch in gcode ?
[01:32:03] <Tecan> gotta set the unit then x0 to x1 type thing ?
[01:43:40] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G20-G21-Units
[01:43:44] <mrsun> G0 X1 should do it? :P
[01:43:47] <mrsun> G0 is rapid tho
[01:44:04] <mrsun> G1 X1 F1 to be safe ;)
[02:06:48] <DJ9DJ> moin
[04:59:19] <Mjolinor> need input. Made a coild winder out fo an old HP inkjet, axes are working fine so now I need to decide if I use a PIC for control or linuxcnc. As far as I can see this is basically a lathe with a stepper motor for the spindle
[04:59:54] <Mjolinor> so it seems to me that the standard config closest to wht I want is a thread cutter, the axis axis moves the wire along and the spindle turns the core
[05:00:36] <Mjolinor> havoing spent a few hours trying and reading it is becoming increasingly more likely that I will use a PIC, can anyone give me some links to sample configs with a stepper for a spindle
[05:01:41] <Mjolinor> and the next thign is regarding the Gcode, will I need a turn spindle - move carriage for all of the turns, that will make the gcode file massive if I need 2000 turns or is there soem Gcode methods that link the two movements?
[05:04:59] <Mjolinor> like > each rev move carriage 1 wire diamter, repeat for 2000
[05:28:43] <archivist_herron> Mjolinor, use O code subroutines
[05:29:00] <Mjolinor> cheers, googling :)
[05:31:04] <Mjolinor> is that zero or the 15th letter of the alphabet?
[05:31:08] <archivist_herron> then you call the sub routine with number of turns per layer and the traverse limits and total turns
[05:31:24] <archivist_herron> OH no zero
[05:32:41] <Mjolinor> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html << htat is what you mean?
[05:37:12] <archivist_herron> yup
[05:42:20] <jthornton> Mjolinor, a stepper coil winder http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/
[05:47:17] <Mjolinor> ok, cheers, back in a bout 5 weeks when I have looked at it :)
[05:48:25] <jthornton> it's just one tiny file can't take more than 5 minutes to look at it
[05:49:41] <Mjolinor> ok :) it's not the looking at, it's the adding bits to make it do things that will take me a while but I'll get there
[05:50:32] <Mjolinor> seems like a lot of work in all, I only need to wind maybe 10 coils but htey have to be identical, manual winding is easy enough butmaking them the same is not possible
[07:10:32] <Crashdemon> hello folks
[07:11:23] <Crashdemon> is there a possibility to set one pin as always high in parallel port configuration
[07:11:29] <Crashdemon> ?
[07:13:02] <jthornton> once you have control of the parallel port you can set a pin high
[07:14:19] <Crashdemon> ok, but is there an option in the stepconf wizard?
[07:15:57] <jthornton> what are you trying to do?
[07:16:25] <archivist_herron> what is this pin doing, ie does step conf call your function by a different name
[07:16:36] <Crashdemon> i'm using the parallel port as pull-up voltage source
[07:17:09] <archivist_herron> you often need to provide your own pullups
[07:18:17] <Crashdemon> yes, but i want only the parallel port cable from pc to stepper controller
[07:18:57] <Crashdemon> and so i'm trying to use one pin as static high, as pull-up for four optocouplers
[07:19:47] <archivist_herron> I am 90% sure that will never work
[07:19:59] <Crashdemon> or is there an option in HAL to set one pin as static high?
[07:20:11] <Crashdemon> ok, why it wont work?
[07:20:32] <archivist_herron> the port itself does not allow for driving that sort of current out of one pin
[07:21:22] <Crashdemon> yes you are right, but the current is pretty low if i'm using 10k resitsors
[07:21:22] <skunkworks> 20-30ma max if you are lucky
[07:21:56] <archivist_herron> the optos will likely not work at 10 k
[07:22:37] <Crashdemon> jap, 3,3V / 10k = 330uA
[07:22:49] <archivist_herron> optos often have a minimum current spec
[07:23:00] <Crashdemon> ne not at the input stage of the optocouplers, at the output
[07:24:00] <Crashdemon> i'd like to pull up the output, not the input
[07:24:49] <Crashdemon> the input of my optocouplers is my stepp ctrl (reference switch ...)
[07:25:33] <Crashdemon> the output of the optocouplers goes to the parallel port (used in linuxcnc as input)
[07:26:27] <archivist_herron> I regard the port as an open collector type device where you provide 5v and pullups externally as needed
[07:26:28] <Crashdemon> the output is connected with pull-up resistor (10k) to one parallel port-pin (3,3v)
[07:27:16] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: shouldn't have the IEEE 1284 "Inputs" already have a 1.2k PullUp?
[07:27:28] <Andy1978> eh, why 3.3V?
[07:27:40] <archivist_herron> ttl threshold
[07:27:52] <Crashdemon> but then i think i've no galvanic isolation
[07:28:16] <Crashdemon> 3,3v is the high voltage of my parallel port
[07:29:01] <archivist_herron> use the usb or pc 5v as your source 5v
[07:30:00] <Crashdemon> but then i've to use another cable, thats what i'm trying to void
[07:30:05] <Crashdemon> *avoid
[07:33:21] <Crashdemon> i'm not sure if it works, i will give it a try
[07:33:33] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: Why do you want a pull-up?
[07:34:32] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: http://www.fapo.com/1284elec.htm
[07:34:47] <Crashdemon> i thought that might be neccessary
[07:34:50] <Crashdemon> http://www.mikrocontroller.net/wikifiles/c/c2/Optokoppler_grundschaltungen.png
[07:34:58] <Crashdemon> right figure
[07:35:22] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: btw, there is a mikrocontroller.net channel
[07:35:28] <Crashdemon> ok, this sounds good
[07:35:48] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: The pullup is int the input
[07:35:54] <Andy1978> 4,7k?
[07:37:14] <Crashdemon> so the pull-up stage is unnecessary in my application?
[07:37:41] <Andy1978> Yes, IMHO
[07:38:22] <Crashdemon> ok thanks
[07:38:51] <Andy1978> Crashdemon: kein Problem....
[07:39:42] <Crashdemon> Danke, dann werd ich mal los zur Vorlesung
[08:48:37] <Tecan> im thinking of lasering out some rack and pinion
[08:49:01] <Tecan> i need a bigger table so this might do the trick
[08:49:24] <Tecan> unless someone knows a good deal for belt and pully
[08:56:37] <Tecan> need 6' belt with no stretchy
[09:14:11] <DJ9DJ> re
[09:17:11] <Mjolinor> if I have hte Gcode "G1 X96 A200 F1000" does the feed rate refer to the A or the X axis, it seems to me to be neither but is some unknown combination
[09:18:36] <Tecan> aha dirtbike chain + wooden gear
[09:19:11] <Tecan> or bicycle chain
[09:20:29] <Tecan> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:8505
[09:29:31] <cpresser> Mjolinor: if you have multiple axis-words in one line you get a combined move. the point A200 and X96 are reached at the same time. the feedrate is specified along this path
[09:29:56] <Mjolinor> crap
[09:30:02] <Mjolinor> that makes it hard then :)
[09:30:08] <cpresser> using "G1 F100 X100 Y100" gives you a different feed-rate on the x-axis as "G1 F100 X100 Y400"
[09:30:29] <cpresser> the resulting feedrate in direction of the move is 100 in both cases
[09:30:38] <cpresser> its just geometry :)
[09:30:45] <Mjolinor> what I really need is "G0 A200 F100 X95 F150
[09:30:53] <Mjolinor> but that is a no no
[09:31:00] <cpresser> actually i dont know how linuxcnc handels rotary axis.
[09:31:04] <cradek> Mjolinor: see http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/machining_center.html#sub:feed-rate
[09:31:07] <cpresser> never had one
[09:31:21] <Mjolinor> I read that, it doesn't specify how it is done
[09:31:49] <cradek> well it does -- can you ask a more specific question then?
[09:32:12] <cpresser> "If any of XYZ are moving, F is in units per minute in the XYZ cartesian system, and all other axes (ABCUVW) move so as to start and stop in coordinated fashion. "
[09:32:20] <Mjolinor> no it doesn't
[09:32:27] <Mjolinor> it does not say what the speed rate refers to
[09:32:45] <Mjolinor> as in the hypotenuse of the triangle
[09:32:45] <cpresser> " F is in units per minute in the XYZ cartesian system"
[09:34:19] <cradek> yes in your example you have X moving, so the sentence cpresser quoted is the answer
[09:34:20] <Andy1978> the norm sqrt(v_x^2+v_y^2+v_z^2)
[09:34:34] <cradek> (if you're in G94)
[09:35:21] <cradek> often people use G93 mode when doing linear/rotary combined moves to avoid worrying about units
[09:36:16] <cradek> that advice is given here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#_linear_and_rotary_axis
[09:36:56] <cradek> 5-axis code is almost always written in G93 mode for this reason, especially if generated by cam
[09:37:04] <Mjolinor> doesnt help I dont think, it took me 2 days to make the machine form an old HP inkjet adn I am now around 4 days into trying to get Linuxcnc to control it. I know I could write asassembler form source to do the same job in about 2 hours
[09:37:23] <Mjolinor> to run in a PIC
[09:37:36] <cradek> heh, ok then
[09:37:49] <cradek> you realize everyone here is trying to help you, right?
[09:37:56] <Mjolinor> I know :)
[09:38:14] <Mjolinor> coffe time probably, that always helps
[09:38:16] <cradek> if you still don't understand this, ask another question, or ask a different way
[09:38:27] <cradek> agreed, that's sure to help
[09:38:38] <Mjolinor> I do understand it now, it won't do what I need.
[09:38:48] <cradek> what do you need?
[09:39:34] <Mjolinor> I have 2 stepper motors, one is rotating a core and hte other is controlling the carriage, it is for winding coils
[09:39:56] <Mjolinor> so I need to rotate the core and move the carriage at a rate of 1 wire diameter per core revolution
[09:40:19] <cradek> ok, that sounds like easy coordinated motion
[09:40:34] <Mjolinor> yup, I can do it with a while loop
[09:40:35] <archivist_herron> that is something you calculate before you call your subroutine
[09:40:37] <cpresser> Mjolinor: you could use G95 and have the rotating motor act as spindle
[09:40:38] <cradek> if your wire is 1mm you'd move like G1 X10 A3600
[09:40:58] <cradek> so you'd get 360 degrees for each mm the carriage moves
[09:40:58] <cpresser> or just do what craded said :)
[09:41:11] <cradek> that would put down 10 turns of wire
[09:41:47] <archivist_herron> and a sensible F number to do it as best as it can
[09:42:35] <cradek> if you want to go back and forth, you'd want to use a loop, one G1 move for each direction
[09:42:54] <Mjolinor> but the F numbers are way different so it will take a week to wind
[09:43:11] <cradek> ok stop there and explain what you mean - because that comment makes no sense to me
[09:43:24] <cradek> there is a misunderstanding going on and let's nail it down
[09:44:11] <cradek> with that G1 move, X and A move in a certain proportion, because otherwise they wouldn't be coordinated (starting and ending together)
[09:44:26] <cradek> to talk about the feeds being different makes no sense -- there is only one feed
[09:45:12] <Andy1978> Mjolinor: please explain "(16:29:24) Mjolinor: but the F numbers are way different so it will take a week to wind"
[09:45:32] <cpresser> with "distance/feedrate = time it takes for the move to complete" (for G94)
[09:47:14] <Mjolinor> I need to go back and rethink
[09:47:28] <archivist_herron> here the apparent XYZ F number means little due to the max speed of the rotary so F100 will actually have the rotary going faster than you think it would, so the X slows down to the rotaries maximum step rate, try it and see
[09:47:35] <Mjolinor> at the moment mm has no meaning on my "A" axis as it is a rotational axis
[09:47:52] <cradek> yes, A is in degrees, so A360 should be a full turn
[09:48:09] <Mjolinor> what I think I need is for a thread cutting lathe configuration wiht a stepper for the spindle
[09:48:22] <cradek> your XA machine is exactly what you need
[09:48:57] <Mjolinor> it isnt an XA machine, it is a XUZA + spindle machine form stepconf
[09:49:05] <Mjolinor> it isnt an XA machine, it is a XYZA + spindle machine form stepconf
[09:49:18] <archivist_herron> just experiment with your F numbers, it will coordinated the moves correctly
[09:49:58] <cradek> for coil winding, you could probably use G0 and get the motion you want with everything moving in a coordinated way as fast as possible
[09:50:10] <Mjolinor> I did it OK with a while loop using o100 while [#1 LT 100]
[09:50:10] <Mjolinor> G1 A96 F1000
[09:50:10] <Mjolinor> G1 X.05 F500
[09:50:10] <Mjolinor> #1 = [#1+1]
[09:50:10] <Mjolinor> o100 endwhile
[09:50:35] <Mjolinor> but it stops the spindle to run the X move, takes a long time to wind but it does work OK
[09:50:51] <cradek> I don't understand what that's trying to do
[09:51:01] <Mjolinor> wind a coil :)
[09:51:04] <cradek> I think you aren't understanding what coordinated motion means
[09:51:25] <Mjolinor> it is a flexible centre, like say a piece of coax from your TV aerial
[09:51:41] <archivist_herron> use one line g1 a96x.05 F500
[09:51:49] <Mjolinor> it needs about 4 layers of 1000 turns of fine wire, it is used to measure current flowing in a cable
[09:51:50] <cradek> why would you run X and A separately?
[09:52:12] <cradek> they should move together at a fixed ratio that makes X move one wire diameter per turn of A
[09:52:17] <Mjolinor> because it seemed to be the only way I could do it, if I tried to do it together then the steppers stalled
[09:52:21] <cradek> you do that with a coordinated move like I specified above
[09:52:43] <cradek> ok, then fix that problem: probably incorrect velocity or acceleration settings
[09:52:56] <cradek> now we're getting down to the real problem
[09:52:59] <Mjolinor> yes, that si what I figured but had hte problem deciding what feed rate to use and couldnt work it out, that si where I cam ein about 20 minutes ago
[09:52:59] <archivist_herron> you have your max step rates set too fast probably
[09:53:35] <Mjolinor> coffee, noodle baked
[09:53:53] <archivist_herron> under load acceleration rates need to be sensible too
[09:54:09] <cradek> if you have stalls, the place to fix them is your ini file, NOT your gcode
[09:57:03] <Mjolinor> yup, I htink I need to go back to stepconf adn find out why it will now stall
[09:57:30] <Mjolinor> I set it carefully at probably 2/3 of what it woudl run at so it shoudlnt ever get anywhere near stalling
[09:57:57] <Mjolinor> I have probably done somethign liek change dhte microstepping since I ran the config or soemthing else really stupid
[10:00:13] <archivist_herron> did you do your testing without a load though
[10:02:07] <Mjolinor> no
[10:02:12] <Mjolinor> I foudn the problem
[10:02:58] <Mjolinor> when I set the speeds with stepconf the axis was jsut an axis, I then edited the HAL file to make it rotational, that has totally buggered up the speed settings
[10:03:26] <cradek> yes XYZ are in in/sec or mm/sec, but A is deg/sec
[10:03:56] <cradek> the numbers will be really different
[10:04:00] <Mjolinor> at the tiem I tested the speeds I wasn't considering the next steps, just making sure it all worked
[10:04:34] <Mjolinor> so now it is in degrees in stepconf I will have to redo the steps per degree settings as I have lots of gears in there
[10:04:42] <archivist_herron> I had to experiment with my speeds
[10:35:34] <Mjolinor> sorted :)
[11:25:30] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/140483
[11:28:05] <cradek> heh, we haven't tried mac yet, but we're sure it'll be lovely
[11:30:33] <skunkworks> :)
[11:32:53] <skunkworks> I don't know what he means by OEM pc's only...
[11:33:05] <cradek> no idea
[11:33:57] <archivist> I think they are slowly going up a blind alley :)
[11:34:22] <skunkworks> they still don'
[11:35:00] <Jymmm> Mac now have thunderbolt, so that would be interesting to see mesa come out with an IO card at 10Gbps speeds =)
[11:36:05] <skunkworks> don't have a commercial product - and it is already half way into 2013
[11:38:59] <archivist> and the rest of the world are racing by
[11:39:33] <archivist> bit like ubuntu is with ermmmmm
[11:40:23] <JT-Shop> how can I show some pins while Touchy is running?
[11:40:57] <skunkworks> ctl-alt-t
[11:41:10] <skunkworks> then run halcmd
[11:41:15] <skunkworks> maybe
[11:41:37] <JT-Shop> I was trying to use halrun not halcmd
[11:41:42] <JT-Shop> brain fart
[11:41:45] <skunkworks> heh
[11:41:46] <cradek> you can unmaximize touchy and use your computer like a computer :-)
[11:41:50] <cradek> aha
[12:15:12] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:15:39] <IchGuckLive> mices in poland totaly water boarded
[12:15:57] <IchGuckLive> i hope his shop is ok
[12:30:55] <ssi> I got my stabilator turnbuckles replaced and rerigged
[12:31:01] <ssi> my plasma cut rigging tool worked splendidly :D
[12:31:30] <IchGuckLive> yeah go for better and faster cut
[12:32:23] <IchGuckLive> ssi with THC ?
[12:32:32] <ssi> spending two hours in an 18"x18" access hole on my belly in the tailcone of the airplane sweating buckets wasn't so fun though
[12:32:35] <ssi> IchGuckLive: yea THC is working
[12:32:46] <ssi> I have to make sure to remember to set the voltage every time though
[12:32:53] <IchGuckLive> did you connect torch ok or only M23
[12:32:53] <ssi> I wish I had a way to control voltage from linuxcnc, but I don't yet
[12:32:56] <IchGuckLive> M3
[12:32:58] <ssi> I have arc-ok
[12:34:15] <IchGuckLive> i w need to test if it works if i start thc from pircing height
[12:34:34] <IchGuckLive> i have no pin left for arc ok now
[12:37:03] <ssi> so I have two of these boards:
[12:37:03] <ssi> http://ebrombaugh.studionebula.com/embedded/bcc/index.html
[12:37:09] <ssi> and parts for them coming today and tomorrow
[12:37:29] <ssi> I Want to see if I can hack up a 5i25 firmware and make it run on there, using the 28 pin header on the right as a superport
[12:37:32] <ssi> might be horrible wishful thinking
[12:38:30] <IchGuckLive> you gt it
[12:44:02] <IchGuckLive> hi joe9 hi Daywalker198454
[12:44:23] <Daywalker198454> hi , alles klar
[12:44:25] <Daywalker198454> ???
[12:44:36] <IchGuckLive> solang das wetter so bleibt
[12:44:47] <Daywalker198454> astreines mopedwetter ;)
[12:46:17] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:30:32] * JT-Shop wished people would start their problem description with I modified the xx instructions to use the USB port and it won't work... instead me fishing for days for the real issue
[13:31:33] <archivist> getting the right question is always "interesting"
[13:33:29] <PCW> Always posting dmesg log on linuxcnc startup failures woulds ave a lot of time
[13:33:47] <cradek> posting?
[13:33:59] <PCW> on the forum
[13:34:07] <cradek> always?
[13:34:46] <PCW> well the linuxCNC error messages are rather scattered about
[13:35:08] <cradek> very true. it would be nice if they made more sense. there's a lot of noise.
[13:35:20] <cradek> usually there's one line that's important, and 200 other lines
[13:41:09] <PCW> I'm mainly referring to the last thread I responded to on the forum. hostmot2 startup problems are often easily resolvable with the dmesg info
[13:41:40] <PCW> Its also a bug in hostmot2 that the firmware does not know it own name
[13:46:48] <Mjolinor> Picture of my winder working, thanks for all the help. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/winder.jpg
[13:47:22] <cradek> awesome
[13:47:31] <Mjolinor> best use of HP inkjets methinks :)
[13:50:51] <cradek> I don't really understand what I'm seeing
[13:51:23] <Mjolinor> the coil is the long white thing, it starts off life as the centre out of a length of coax about a foot long
[13:52:43] <cradek> oh I see now
[13:52:49] <cradek> does the moving head support it somehow?
[13:53:07] <Mjolinor> yes
[13:53:12] <cradek> gotcha
[13:53:13] <Mjolinor> ill do a video, hang on
[13:53:26] <cradek> and you wind the whole length of it with one G1 code now?
[13:53:36] <Mjolinor> yes
[13:53:40] <cradek> perfect
[13:55:52] <Mjolinor> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dknpower/winder.3gp
[13:56:24] <cradek> cool
[13:56:59] <cradek> it would be hard to wind something so floppy using a less automated method
[13:57:22] <Mjolinor> with a drill and another hand :)
[13:57:45] <Mjolinor> can do one in less than a minute with a drill but getting them identical is very difficult particularly with thin wire
[13:57:47] <cradek> yeah I suppose it's only being driven on one end
[13:58:13] <Mjolinor> the wire in the vid is 0.7 mm, I need to use 0.2 and this machine does that fine, by hand I can't do it
[14:12:39] <archivist> at the smaller wire sizes the back tension can be a bit fussy
[14:13:48] <cradek> I've always wanted to try rewinding accutron coils, but it seems you simply can't get the wire
[14:14:11] <archivist> never seen anyone put the supply coil offset like that before, usually its behind
[14:14:45] <archivist> I remember us discussing the wire for that some years ago
[14:16:06] <archivist> most of the wire got dispersed when the clockworks shut, just a little came home
[14:18:50] <archivist> cradek, there is the option of finding something else that uses similar sizes and dismember for the wire
[14:20:12] <cradek> I think it would be hard enough to wind with perfect virgin wire
[14:21:12] <cradek> I understand that #50 and below are all too fragile to respool, so you have to just buy whatever comes on the spool from the manufacturer
[14:23:19] <cradek> my best guess is they used AWG54 which is 0.0158 mm
[14:34:58] <Nick001-Shop> <PCW> Can you look at my ini & hal file and markup what I need? Do I send them directly to you or pastbin?
[14:47:21] <PCW> Can you pastebin them?
[15:00:36] <Nick001-Shop> OK
[15:09:08] <Nick001-Shop> <PCW> http://pastebin.com/5U53bMTy has both files
[15:13:23] <archivist> cradek, got called away by neighbour , kid dropped his lap top and broke the screen :)
[15:13:36] <cradek> ooch
[15:14:21] <archivist> acer aspire, still works on an external monitor though so not that bad
[15:16:56] <archivist> hmm £60 delivered by the look of it
[15:17:39] <cradek> eh just bring up another laptop from the basement and restore his home directory from tape :-)
[15:20:06] <archivist> I do not have a stock of working laptops :(
[15:21:17] <skunkworks> I have replace many many screens.
[15:21:50] <skunkworks> replaced
[15:24:55] <JT-Shop> I have a stock of broken laptops
[15:25:10] <archivist> hmm just googling for thin wire and a source being recommended is quartz movements, I have a "few"
[15:27:27] <archivist> cradek, was that wire size with or without the insulation
[15:28:00] <cradek> with
[15:28:22] <cradek> I think
[15:28:53] <cradek> measured visually (microscope) so it'd probably measure the coating too
[15:31:37] <archivist> I just dismembered a movement will go upstairs and measure
[15:45:54] <archivist> .0028 a bit too thick
[15:48:34] <cradek> that sounds like AWG41
[15:49:27] <cradek> more than 4x the diameter of what I'd need
[15:49:44] <archivist> I could just tease out enough to use a bench micrometer
[16:22:44] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:26:34] <Mjolinor> why do you want such thin wire?
[16:34:44] <andypugh> Mjolinor: ah, I was hoping to catch you.
[16:34:50] <andypugh> You need a servo.
[16:34:56] <Mjolinor> hmm
[16:34:58] <andypugh> Not a stepper.
[16:35:07] <andypugh> You coul dmake one.
[16:35:07] <Mjolinor> yes it woudl be better
[16:35:17] <Mjolinor> I took one off to stick the stepper on
[16:35:56] <Mjolinor> the printer had a dc motor and a scale thing for position on the carriage, I could have used that but thought it was too much work
[16:37:25] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281099904847 + http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230962102508 = servo :-)
[16:38:13] <andypugh> (Actually, one of those brushless motors is probably a bad idea as I don't think that they are actually self-starting)
[16:38:34] <Mjolinor> I use one of those motors on my spindle on my PCB mill
[16:39:05] <Mjolinor> cost about £4 and has been running 2 years now, I expected it to self destruct being made in china and all :)
[16:40:41] <Loetmichel> andypugh: they are, when fitted with three hall elements and a fitting ESC
[16:41:16] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: depends... i buy my motors at hobbyking.
[16:41:17] <andypugh> Well, yes, but..
[16:41:23] <Loetmichel> never had one self destruct
[16:41:33] <Mjolinor> neither have I :)
[16:41:33] <Loetmichel> not even the VERY cheap ones
[16:42:09] <andypugh> I do know about hall sensors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P027KQ8ZHo
[16:42:24] <Mjolinor> its sits for hours at 30,000 rpm, quite amazed it hasn't thrown it's hand in
[16:42:26] <Loetmichel> but the 4 motors i have from Turborix sound like a tin can full of marbles shaken very well
[16:42:36] <Loetmichel> ... and did that since i bought them
[16:42:38] <Loetmichel> :-)
[16:42:44] <Loetmichel> s/did/do
[16:44:18] <Loetmichel> andypugh: that screams "LOTS OF TORQUE"
[16:45:12] <andypugh> Step 1 of the conversion was finished today, I fitted a new encoder to my lathe spindle that wouldn't be in the way. And that counts the same number of steps every rev.
[16:45:31] <andypugh> Yes, I think that the washing machine motors are rated at 50Nm.
[16:45:33] <Mjolinor> always an advantage to do that :)
[16:45:34] <Loetmichel> andypugh: if you would speak a bit slower non-native english speakers could MABE understand more ;-)
[16:46:19] <andypugh> I am tempted to buy a bunch of those £10 encoders just because they are so cheap and must be good for something.
[16:46:45] <Loetmichel> +Y
[16:47:46] <andypugh> My own mother can rarely understand me, so it's unlikley.
[16:48:06] <andypugh> You can turn on the auto-subtitles. That's generally good for a laugh.
[16:48:14] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[16:48:24] <Loetmichel> i CAn understand you
[16:48:33] <Loetmichel> its just a little fast for my ears ;-)
[16:48:37] <archivist> so can I ....just
[16:49:31] <Mjolinor> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HOT-SALE-1pc-Incremental-optical-rotary-encoder-400-pulse/845959029.html
[16:49:36] <Mjolinor> bit cheaper :)
[16:49:45] <andypugh> The little square symbol to the left of the gear wheel one lets you turn on auto-captions.
[16:49:49] <archivist> we want some torque values from said motor next :)
[16:51:00] <andypugh> "drip footballs with little walter driver" is apparently one thing I say. :-)
[16:51:40] <andypugh> I would need to have it under PID control and stationary to measure torque, I think.
[16:52:12] <andypugh> Unless I make a brake dynamomenter, which sounds like a fair bit of trouble.
[16:53:34] <archivist> it looked easy to pull off the magnets, a local here has one he intends making a generator from and it sticks like sh*t to a blanket
[17:02:39] <andypugh> It is a very cheap one. Aluminium windings, ferrite magnets. I suspect that the first generation ones (copper / rare-earth) might be rather better.
[17:03:43] <archivist> the LG he has is copper, dunno about the magnets
[17:51:47] <PCW> Nick001-Shop the next step is to add the stepgen setup stuff (steal from hm2-stepper.hal and ini)
[17:51:49] <PCW> and change the lines like
[17:51:50] <PCW> #net motor.00.command pid.0.output => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.pwmgen.00.value
[17:51:52] <PCW> to
[17:51:53] <PCW> net motor.00.command pid.0.output => hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.velocity-command
[18:04:59] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JynwVKXzc9s
[18:05:00] <Tecan> (JynwVKXzc9s) "Supertramp Live 2011: Bloody Well Right [Full HD]" by "ComeFaceTheMusic" is "Music" - Length: 0:07:07
[18:05:13] <Tom_itx> like that one
[18:07:04] * JT-Shop puts his water boy hat back on...
[18:12:58] <Jymmm> I am retiring my IBM Model M keyboard *sigh*
[18:13:13] <jdh> I still have a bunch of them at work.
[18:13:38] <jdh> I love typing on them with the right height desk/chair, but they are annoying
[18:15:14] <Jymmm> Clearing off the desk of everything to make room for the new iMac
[18:15:37] <Jymmm> it feels weird doing it too, lol
[19:15:58] <andypugh> Jymmmm: You might get to really like the iMac keyboard. A friend was desperate to find a clicky keyboard until I persuaded him to try the Apple ones.
[19:16:28] <Jymmmm> andypugh: I've had a wired Apple kybd for years
[19:16:54] <andypugh> The aluminium "chicklet" one?
[19:17:11] <Jymmmm> andypugh: yep
[19:17:33] <andypugh> Much nicer keyboards than they look, I think?
[19:18:08] <Jymmmm> VERY nice actually
[19:18:24] <andypugh> Or maybe the other way round. They _look_ like they should be all-form and no function.
[19:20:09] <Jymmmm> andypugh: The appe kybd was a very easy transition from model m for me
[19:21:32] <andypugh> Anyway, enough off-topic chat, time to sleep.
[19:21:35] <andypugh> Night all.
[19:21:50] <JT-Shop> good night Irene
[19:28:14] <Tom_itx> good night Gracie
[19:34:34] <Nick001> <PCW> do you have a list of stepgen stuff to steal -) and is that the only 2 lines to modifyfor 00 and 01?
[19:36:46] <PCW> you can copy/paste them from hm2-stepper.hal and the associated .ini file
[19:38:12] <Nick001> got that - I'll have to figure out which lines to coppy - tommorrow at the shop
[19:38:30] <PCW> # timing parameters
[19:38:32] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.dirsetup [AXIS_0]DIRSETUP
[19:38:34] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.dirhold [AXIS_0]DIRHOLD
[19:38:36] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.steplen [AXIS_0]STEPLEN
[19:38:37] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.stepspace [AXIS_0]STEPSPACE
[19:38:39] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE
[19:38:40] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.maxvel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAX_VEL
[19:38:42] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAX_ACC
[19:38:44] <PCW> that kind of thing
[19:39:03] <Nick001> and leave the pid stuff alone?
[19:40:09] <PCW> other than the PID output driving the stepgens velocity pin rather than a PWMGen, the PID is unchanged
[19:41:11] <PCW> (well tuning will be different, all FF1 plus a bit of P)
[19:42:51] <PCW> so basically you are making a velocity mode servo with the
[19:42:53] <PCW> PID output controlling a step rate insted of an analog output voltage
[19:44:21] <PCW> also need this of course:
[19:44:23] <PCW> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
[19:57:09] <PCW> bbml
[20:00:03] <Nick001> ok - thanks - I'll make these changes in the morning when I get to the shop
[21:14:58] <ughhhhh> having some issues on my lathe with threading.... it goes to the initial position and just pauses and the spindle is spinning
[21:15:58] <ughhhhh> i cant see any issues with the program. when i check the spindle-at-speed signal, it is flickering between true and false pretty rapidly. could this be the issue?
[21:16:14] <ughhhhh> i have never tried threading on this lathe before
[21:28:36] <ughhhhh> hmm the spindle-at-speed signal is still flashing true/false, even though i changed the near.0.scale to 4
[21:30:37] <ughhhhh> ok something isnt right
[21:30:58] <skunkworks> ughhhhh: could you post your hal and ini files on pastebin.com
[21:33:01] <ughhhhh> sure give me a sec
[21:36:02] <ughhhhh> skunkworks: http://pastebin.com/J01HAutA
[21:37:00] <skunkworks> cool - mesa
[21:38:01] <ughhhhh> looks like maybe my encoder is not working properly
[21:38:26] <ughhhhh> i'm watching the counts in hal meter and it's jumping around even when spinning my hand
[21:38:30] <ughhhhh> by hand*
[21:38:51] <ughhhhh> sorry, i know it isnt very organized
[21:39:01] <Tom_itx> or noisy wiring?
[21:39:13] <Tom_itx> is the signal wire shielded?
[21:39:17] <ughhhhh> could be but i doubt it
[21:39:51] <pcw_home> wrong encoder mode? (TTL vs Differential)
[21:39:54] <ughhhhh> it's a hollow bore encoder. you have to align the disk\
[21:40:03] <skunkworks> wow - that is quite the hal file..
[21:40:34] <ughhhhh> trainwreck, you can say it.
[21:40:59] <ughhhhh> pcw_home: possible, but i'm pretty sure it counted fine before
[21:41:14] <pcw_home> I would look at the A,B signals with HALScope as the spindle turns slowly
[21:41:27] <ughhhhh> my guess is the disk is contaminated or out of calibration
[21:41:58] <ughhhhh> would this cause it not to cut threads?
[21:42:16] <ughhhhh> it basically just pauses at the beginning of the cut
[21:43:09] <pcw_home> you need spindle at speed and encoder index to work to start the thread
[21:43:54] <ughhhhh> yea spindle at speed just flickers true to false
[21:46:01] <ughhhhh> what's the best way to see if it's reading the index?
[21:47:45] <ughhhhh> weird, it seems to count ok in one direction but not very well at all in the other
[21:49:24] <pcw_home> sounds like the quadrature phasing is wrong
[21:49:47] <pcw_home> this can be a detector/disk alignment issue
[21:50:28] <pcw_home> and some older encoders have A/B sensitivity pots
[21:51:01] <ughhhhh> its fairly new
[21:52:43] <pcw_home> was it disassembed?
[21:53:36] <pcw_home> Anyway I would 'scope A,B and also just check their DC levels
[21:55:23] <ughhhhh> it wasnt dissasembled anymore than it comes from the factory... which is a floating disk in a plastic housing that you have to space correctly when you put it on the shaft
[22:08:40] <ughhhhh> well it's saying spindle-at-speed is true now that i adjusted the disk
[22:10:09] <ughhhhh> well that was it.
[22:10:15] <ughhhhh> it's threading now, thanks guys
[22:14:30] <skunkworks> yay