#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-05-27

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[00:29:10] <L84Supper2> BBB SOC <1W, LED's >1W :)
[01:19:53] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, you still on?
[01:55:02] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:37:59] <zultron> Hi GammaX-Tower
[02:38:24] <Andy1978> Hi at all
[02:46:25] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, hey I saw your response before and wnated to enquire further. How are you.
[02:56:21] <zultron> Doing good, GammaX-Tower
[02:56:41] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, can you check Pm Please?
[03:08:34] <RyanS> are sherline machines actually any more accurate than chinese benchtop machines?
[03:10:35] <archivist> sherline accurate!
[03:12:59] <RyanS> My question was not is it more accurate than a mori seiki :p
[03:17:00] <archivist> well I read http://www.sherline.com/8700inst.htm and there are factual inaccuracies , I emailed the site
[03:17:30] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, what type of bench top? rf45 type benchtop? pm25?
[03:19:56] <RyanS> the equivalent size....
[03:22:43] <GammaX-Tower> there two totally diff size machines lol
[03:24:23] <RyanS> no I mean sherline vs the smallest sieg would be the comparison
[03:26:59] <GammaX-Tower> ohhh
[03:27:08] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, your interested in buying one of them?
[03:27:39] <archivist> I would get cast iron rather then extruded aluminium
[03:27:57] <RyanS> I'd prefer a multi-turret dual spindle turning centre With live tooling but, you know
[03:27:59] <archivist> that means the chinese crap
[03:28:15] <GammaX-Tower> the cast iron will give much more rigidity.
[03:28:22] <GammaX-Tower> archivist, you goin to the meatup?
[03:28:52] <archivist> I am in england and have no proper job, no funds to go
[03:29:23] <RyanS> yeah, it's just I am wondering about the build quality
[03:30:32] <archivist> well from the statements on the page I linked equating resolution with accuracy, I know which to avoid :)
[03:31:04] <archivist> even after I told the guy in a friendly manner
[03:31:43] <RyanS> umm not sure what you mean..
[03:31:59] <archivist> they are not telling the truth
[03:32:18] <RyanS> who?
[03:32:39] <archivist> sherline
[03:32:59] <archivist> The electronic system has no error in its calculations, but it does round off as previously explained. rounding off is adding an error
[03:33:16] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, whats ur price range if you dont mind me askin?
[03:34:25] <RyanS> oh, so irrespective of the build quality if you get extruded aluminium you are sacrificing rigidity, and therefore accuracy and repeatability
[03:34:31] <archivist> I think RyanS should get an old southbend or something
[03:34:55] <GammaX-Tower> If he wants new I think he should get a pm25 or pm30
[03:35:41] <RyanS> I probably should add cnc
[03:38:25] <RyanS> And also I'm a disabled dude. And I suspect when doing model engineering even if you have a basic cnc its 60% workpiece setup and 40% actual cutting? Wouldn't that be a pretty accurate ratio
[03:38:53] <GammaX-Tower> possibly more % on setup
[03:39:43] <archivist> the smaller and more versatile the machines the more time you spend on setup
[03:42:03] <RyanS> Thought so. However if I have the machining and knowledge and the assistant is just there to change bits and tighten bolts said assistant needs to be somewhat handy
[03:44:56] <RyanS> lotto win and get 2 spindle, 2 turret turning centre is probably the better option :p
[03:45:37] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, price range?
[03:47:19] <RyanS> $5000 for latge, mill, cn and tolling maximum
[03:47:41] <RyanS> But the setup thing that it is likely pointless exercise
[03:48:40] <RyanS> And a bar feeder for the unrealistic option
[03:49:25] <RyanS> And three-phase power, and a new concrete slab
[03:50:48] <archivist> hlepers skill level will also be a problem
[03:51:32] <RyanS> yeh
[03:51:48] <RyanS> lotto...... lol
[03:52:06] <archivist> we had an electronic kit returned for repair and setup that was made by the Lords, butler, I wish I had pictures
[03:52:17] <RyanS> In which case my budget is $500k
[03:54:53] <RyanS> I wonder if a turning centre with milling function and backside machining would not require actually touching the machining except for sticking a piece stock in (which I would have an industrial robot)
[03:55:03] <RyanS> That's not too much to ask is it
[03:55:23] <RyanS> (First world problems)
[03:55:50] <RyanS> Touching the machine*
[03:56:33] <RyanS> You just sit behind a PC and have everything remote-controlled
[03:58:32] <archivist> for production possibly, for one offs, I dont think so at the moment
[03:59:32] <RyanS> doesn't it just mean you will be doing lots of programming
[04:00:25] <RyanS> You get one with an automatic tool changer and have every tool you own in the machine?
[04:02:19] <RyanS> I would say to an enthusiastic engineering student "I'll let you make parts on my Mazak Integrex j-200 if you write me some custom software and set up the robots"
[04:02:24] <archivist> there is some effort in tool setting
[04:03:47] <RyanS> What about a 72 ATC, how many can you possibly need
[04:04:15] <RyanS> Outside help to replace broken tools
[04:04:30] <RyanS> or have two of each
[04:07:55] <RyanS> I thought that those machines have tool length sensors (although I have seen tool setting machines)
[04:12:03] <archivist> only a percentage have tool measurement and even then its not just length one needs to measure
[04:16:59] <RyanS> Okay but once you tool the entire machine up, it's only breakages and replacement of worn tools
[04:19:27] <RyanS> Investment casting, 3-D printer, for model engines
[04:22:08] <RyanS> probably no good for pistons, and crankshafts...
[07:01:21] <L84Supper2> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/new-z-axes-coupling are <$2 ea, most Keling parts seem to be ~60% less in China
[07:52:09] <exco> awallin, as promised: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wslOMT6_e6k
[07:52:10] <Tecan> (wslOMT6_e6k) "LinuxCNC Manutec R15 2" by "excogitation" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:45
[07:54:58] <jthornton> cool
[08:31:47] <archivist> andypugh, just seen a linkedin email did you instigate that or their spam system :)
[08:32:19] <jthornton> I've gotten them as well and suspect spam
[08:32:30] * archivist not trusting of linkedin just yet
[08:32:34] <jthornton> not from Andy but from others in the UK
[08:32:48] <andypugh> It was actually me.
[08:33:00] <archivist> then I shall accept :)
[08:33:17] <andypugh> I just ticked about 20 people that they have been suggesting to me for months.
[08:33:28] * jthornton is not sure what linkedin does
[08:33:32] <archivist> not me
[08:33:35] <archivist> nor
[08:33:55] <archivist> I think it mainly spams job ads
[08:33:58] <andypugh> It's like facebook but without the social, useful or fun parts?
[08:34:08] <ReadError> its for job connections
[08:34:42] <archivist> I need an appropriate job not some of the crap they have sent so fay
[08:34:49] <andypugh> I think the idea is that if any of my contacts wants a maker of small gears, then they stand a fair chance of finding archivist.
[08:34:49] <archivist> far
[08:36:02] <archivist> we need an unconnected volunteer to test one day :)
[08:36:07] <andypugh> But I think that it is meant more for jobs looking for people than people looking for jobs.
[08:37:10] <archivist> I keep getting some stuff from Rolls Royce derby, looking for graduates, that is not me
[08:39:30] <andypugh> Somebody (not linkedin) tried to interest me in a contract, graduate, job at £8 an hour for 6 months.
[08:39:48] <andypugh> I didn't even bother replying.
[08:40:01] <archivist> were they looking for offshore
[08:40:11] <archivist> India
[08:40:50] <archivist> I have had a couple of fishing emails from Google but I hardly fit the profile
[08:41:14] <archivist> I replied to the first but got no reply
[08:41:22] <andypugh> "Graduate Design Engineer - (6 MONTH CONTRACT) - Hereford - £8-10ph. My client based in the Hereford Area are offering the opportunity for a recent Graduate to join their team on an initial 6 Month Contract. The role will entail working on 3D Designs of Air Conditioning Units using Inventor Software."
[08:42:11] <andypugh> They wouldn't have had to look very hard to see that I am not a recent graduate, even if I do know how to drive Inventor.
[08:42:39] <archivist> I suppose recent graduate are cheaper too these days
[08:42:59] <andypugh> And £28 ph is far nearer the normal rate for Inventor.
[08:43:27] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think recent grads would get out of bed for that kind of money
[08:44:17] <andypugh> They might in Hereford.
[08:45:43] <archivist> these days some of the "degrees" are not worth what they were
[08:46:44] <archivist> renaming Tech colleges as universities and handing out confetti :)
[08:48:04] <eric_unterhausen> the rapid expansion of college administration costs has made actual educators too expensive
[08:48:38] <eric_unterhausen> we have 200+ students in some upper level engineering elective classes
[08:48:54] <archivist> anyway, I have a run out of bread error, must nip to shops
[08:48:56] <eric_unterhausen> while the administrators sit at starbucks
[08:52:12] <tjtr33> guess the mechanism: polar magnet & ball bearing ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtKy9Vznxps
[08:52:13] <Tecan> (jtKy9Vznxps) "LinuxCNC - Sandplotting - Sandy 2013 - Sandmalerei" by "Josef Spinnler" is "Tech" - Length: 0:05:13
[08:58:47] <andypugh> That is rather cool.
[09:00:25] <andypugh> Given the way that the ball moves very slowly in the first pattern when it gets to the middle, I think you are right about the polar cooardinates.
[09:03:10] <tjtr33> the german text said something about polar, i was wondering the arm mechanism arrangement.
[09:03:11] <tjtr33> another 'hochscholle' ? ( highschool?) project that outclasses me :(
[09:03:53] <tjtr33> anyways, congrats the Josef Spinnler
[09:03:55] <andypugh> His supervisor was a "Prof Ing" so I suspect not high-school
[09:04:42] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochschule
[09:04:59] <andypugh> hochschule == higher-than-school
[09:06:12] <tjtr33> ah hochspannung was just high V but this is graduate
[09:31:14] <andypugh> gene78: Did you ever consider an 3-phase motor and VFD for your lathe? I can't see it being more difficult.
[09:32:42] <frallzor> blind is only the man who cannot see!
[09:35:05] <eric_unterhausen> it's a poor craftsman that blames his tools
[09:35:59] <andypugh> The guy who said that dodn't buy his lathe from China.
[09:36:11] <eric_unterhausen> still his fault :)
[09:37:08] <andypugh> I want this, but I think it will go even higher. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARRISON-M250-240-VOLT-VERY-GOOD-CONDITION-/290920655475
[09:37:44] <eric_unterhausen> we have established that you are just a tool hoarder anyway
[09:38:37] <archivist> is that a restoration job or what
[09:39:04] <andypugh> Compared to some folk (it's OK, archivist, I won't mention your name) I am nothing of the sort.
[09:39:23] <andypugh> archivist: Probably ex-school and never actually used.
[09:39:39] <frallzor> I´m a tool hoarder, I ordered a whole single 6mm end mill today
[09:40:11] <andypugh> I actually want a more tired one.
[09:40:22] <archivist> hoarding++
[09:40:34] <frallzor> I want any decent lathe, but no room whatsoever =/
[09:41:36] <eric_unterhausen> denial is proof :)
[09:42:12] <eric_unterhausen> people call me a hoarder. I just threw away more than half of my accumulated junk
[09:42:22] <archivist> hmm wheels are scruffy compared to the machine
[09:42:25] <IchGuckLive> hi all !
[09:42:43] <frallzor> ironically enough, when my girlfriend moves here I might get one since she will help me make room =P
[09:42:47] <eric_unterhausen> the whole time I was working my butt off to throw stuff away, they kept calling me a hoarder
[09:42:58] <eric_unterhausen> what is wrong with this picture?
[09:43:17] <IchGuckLive> reic are you from germany ?
[09:43:35] <eric_unterhausen> U.S.
[09:43:48] <IchGuckLive> B)
[09:44:05] <andypugh> I fancy converting an M250 to CNC, which makes this plaque on an M250 at work really rather ironic: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vKtV-CvRkuRA9-ymhL9dW9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[09:44:08] <frallzor> fussball
[09:45:22] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 1998 is quit not a old one
[09:45:55] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: bayern got the pokal
[09:46:32] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: That was when they converted it, I don't know when it was made.
[09:47:01] <exco> I'm trying to connect a pyvcp button to a mesa out pin
[09:47:07] <exco> net myJ2start hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.out <= pyvcp.J2start
[09:47:18] <IchGuckLive> no mater what if it is tecnologie from 1998 it sghoudt be posible and good to go for modern tecnology
[09:47:22] <exco> ^^ J2start in corresponding xml
[09:47:33] <andypugh> exco: That should work.
[09:47:49] <exco> sim.hal:131: Pin 'pyvcp.J2start' does not exist
[09:48:01] <IchGuckLive> exco: only small letters pleese
[09:48:19] <IchGuckLive> pyvcp.j2start
[09:48:54] <IchGuckLive> and did you do this inside your postgui hal
[09:49:28] <andypugh> exco: You need to put that code in the postgui halfile, as the PyVCP panel isn't loaded when the main HAL file runs.
[09:49:34] <IchGuckLive> locks like it is in your mashine hal there is no pyvcp
[09:50:00] <andypugh> You also need to set the is_output parameter of the GPIO pin (or it will be an input).
[09:50:08] <exco> postgui was the key I guess
[09:50:26] <IchGuckLive> B) NP
[09:50:38] <exco> yes, andypugh thanks: setp hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.is_output true
[09:50:42] <andypugh> And, actually, you can use capital letters if you want, but you are storing up typo-trouble for the future. :-)
[09:51:41] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: what is the oposit of capitel in english language
[09:51:51] <andypugh> lower-case
[09:51:56] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[09:52:02] <andypugh> possibly "uncial"
[09:52:48] <DJ9DJ> hrhrhr
[09:53:11] <andypugh> Not "uncial" that is something else.
[09:53:13] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majuscule
[09:54:27] <exco> I should be able to watch a state change in hal hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.out then ... but cant :(
[09:55:02] <IchGuckLive> halmeter does not change ß
[09:55:03] <andypugh> How are you watching?
[09:55:07] <DJ9DJ> you should do some more practice on watching then ;)
[09:56:16] <exco> machine -> show hal -> tree -> hm2_5i22 -> gpio -> 64 -> watch
[09:56:28] <IchGuckLive> exco: maybe you need a toggle for the pin to get it stable on a True or False
[09:56:56] <exco> IchGuckLive, yes, I have a toggle also and that doesn't do anything yet ;-)
[09:57:17] <IchGuckLive> did you add a servo tread for the toggle
[09:57:24] <exco> I can see the change in hal -> pyvcp->j2start
[09:58:03] <exco> I don't think so
[09:58:21] <IchGuckLive> then the button touch is not regonised
[09:58:49] <IchGuckLive> addf toggle.0 servo-thread
[09:59:35] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: shouldn't be needed
[10:00:07] <andypugh> exco: Are you using the watch tab? The other tab doesn't update.
[10:00:17] <exco> yes, watch tab
[10:00:44] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: yes http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/toggle.9.html you are right
[10:00:45] <andypugh> But, in the other tab you can see if the gpio pin is linked as expected. It is possible that your postgui hal file just didn't get run.
[10:02:09] <IchGuckLive> # Single file that is executed after the GUI has started. Only supported by
[10:02:11] <IchGuckLive> # AXIS at this time (only AXIS creates a HAL component of its own)
[10:02:12] <IchGuckLive> POSTGUI_HALFILE = plasma_test.hal
[10:02:15] <IchGuckLive> HALUI = halui
[10:02:45] <IchGuckLive> in the [HAL] section byond the main hal files
[10:03:11] <andypugh> I think that "Only Axis" comment may no longer be true.
[10:03:43] <IchGuckLive> 2.5.0 no 2.5.2 is on yes
[10:04:07] <andypugh> And the comment will persist in any config that already exists.
[10:04:21] <IchGuckLive> B)
[10:05:16] <IchGuckLive> exco: is it a Joint2 driver power up button
[10:06:55] <IchGuckLive> im getting here over the youtube channel more and more questions on a stand alone THC axis as many CAM there plasmas with big CAD systems that does not include post for thc
[10:07:39] <IchGuckLive> and pour polnish supplyer does get a cheep standalone Z axis for that
[10:09:26] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouu-5mLDNwU
[10:09:27] <Tecan> (Ouu-5mLDNwU) "Plasma THC Controller + CNConv USB program - Automated Torch Height" by "PromaElektronika" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:12
[10:09:27] <exco> I need to dive through my code a bit ... thanks for the input.
[10:09:48] <IchGuckLive> look how he is cutting ready punched curved sheeds
[10:22:18] <tjtr33> http://proma-elektronika.pl/download/doc/thc_en.pdf ( sorry, i could not read the Polish )
[10:24:35] <tjtr33> i thought i remembered proma, they have and edm generator also http://proma-elektronika.pl/edm-generator-kontroler-osi
[10:25:17] <tjtr33> 1900 zlotnicjz
[10:25:55] <tjtr33> 590$ US
[10:28:20] <andypugh> Mounting the THC sensor and logic on the Z axis does sound like it might make sense.
[10:31:48] <tjtr33> we always had best edm control when process sensor and dc chopper were closest to discharge ( approach 0 len to reduce transmission probs )
[10:32:56] <tjtr33> the AGie 'S-box' was not cutting condensors, they were cable tuners ( too tiny for energy )
[11:01:58] <Tom_itx> somewhat OT: http://www.electronicproducts.com/Electromechanical_Components/Motors_and_Controllers/New_and_interesting_electric_motors.aspx
[11:21:49] <andypugh> SRM sounds interesting.
[11:22:17] <andypugh> (Actually, it sounds like an old-school non-hybrid stepper motor)
[11:23:08] <pcw_home> Yep I'm old enough to remember when 8" floppy drives used those
[11:23:29] <pcw_home> I think they were 3 phase
[11:24:23] <JT-Shop> I don't feel so old now... I only remember 5 1/4" floppys and they were really floppy
[11:24:47] <tjtr33> 8" was floppier
[11:24:57] <tjtr33> CPM!
[11:25:09] <pcw_home> ZCPR
[11:25:51] <JT-Shop> I still have some 5 1/4" drives and disks
[11:27:01] <Tom_itx> i finally tossed my box full of Novell disks but have a few others
[11:27:03] <tjtr33> heh kansas city standard tape format on 1/4 inch audio cassette ( just so you didnt have to key in the boot code )
[11:28:59] <tjtr33> as i sit here using cloud9 and a usb thumb and a uSD ... we live in sci-fi
[11:29:47] <andypugh> There is a nice picture on Wikipedia of an 8GB uSD sat on top of an 8k magnetic core
[11:30:16] <tjtr33> donuts! mag core
[11:32:19] <andypugh> The mux16 hal component offers the option to interpret the input bits as gray-code. Am I right in thinking that the same effect can be had by simply setting up the inputs to suit?
[11:32:45] <cradek> surely
[11:33:22] <andypugh> That sounds easier with the arbitrary-size mux I am plating with.
[11:33:32] <andypugh> (well, easier for me, at least).
[11:33:43] <eric_unterhausen> I think I finally tossed my last stack of punch cards
[11:36:24] <pcw_home> Now if someone would take away my old Versatec plotter...
[11:36:32] <ryan_turner> Hi, what electronics work with LinuxCNC? I have a few reprap printer controllers sitting around
[11:36:51] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:36:53] <ryan_turner> would love to be able to use arduino/ramps or rumba
[11:37:41] <JT-Shop> zumba maybe
[11:38:15] <ryan_turner> Im interesting in building a small CNC out of old RepRap Mendel Prusa i2 parts and other random stuff I have on hand
[11:38:19] <ryan_turner> as well as 3D printed parts.
[11:38:49] <ryan_turner> mainly interested in cutting PCBs though maybe I'd try wood.
[11:40:09] <ryan_turner> trying to find how linuxcnc is supposed to interface with the steppers...
[11:40:32] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: a mendel isnt sturdy enough to mill anything hader than chester cheese
[11:40:36] <ryan_turner> Ah, serial port?
[11:41:00] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, I've disassembled it.
[11:43:01] <ryan_turner> So, basically Ill need to make a board that interfaces my stepper drivers (pololus) with that serial out.
[11:44:00] <archivist> parallel not serial
[11:44:40] <ryan_turner> aha
[11:44:47] <ryan_turner> so something I dont even have heh :D
[11:45:32] <ryan_turner> I recognize XYZ, but whats A?
[11:46:11] <eric_unterhausen> 'A'nother axis
[11:48:14] <JT-Shop> XYZABCUVW are the axes
[11:48:27] <toastydeath> a is usually rotary around x
[11:48:36] <toastydeath> (emphasis on usually, not always)
[11:48:52] <toastydeath> b is rotary around y, c is rotary around z (hence c axis on a lathe)
[11:49:11] <cpresser> ryan_turner: do you stepper-drives have dir/pulse inputs?
[11:50:11] <ryan_turner> dir and step
[11:50:36] <cpresser> then you only need a breakout-board for the parallel-port and you are done
[11:50:43] <ryan_turner> yep
[11:50:49] <ryan_turner> I have a PSU already
[11:50:56] <ryan_turner> have about 6 nema17s sitting around
[11:51:00] <cpresser> you can build one, or get a cheap chinese one off ebay
[11:51:20] <ryan_turner> I have a parallel port housing that I bought a few years ago by mistake
[11:51:29] <ryan_turner> just going to solder up the needed 17 wires and then go from there.
[11:52:21] <cpresser> i recommend to use some TTL or CMOS buffers in the lines
[11:52:38] <ryan_turner> are there any decent small CNC designs that utilize common parts and 3D printables?
[11:52:46] <ryan_turner> ah
[11:53:25] <ryan_turner> I do not have any line drivers on hand
[11:53:54] <cpresser> those are not mandatory, but they protect your par-port :)
[11:54:03] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: serial port is nonsens if you want to use linuxCNC
[11:54:31] <ryan_turner> cpresser, speaking of, gotta figure out what to buy to make me have a parallel port lol
[11:54:56] <ryan_turner> $10, ok.
[11:55:01] <cpresser> ryan_turner: a PC with a parallel port
[11:55:09] <cpresser> usb-parallel _wont_ work!
[11:55:10] <Loetmichel> cpresser: the pololus are miniature Allego stepper drivers on a miniature board
[11:55:13] <ryan_turner> Oh it wont?
[11:55:23] <cpresser> no. not at all.
[11:55:23] <ryan_turner> well shit :(
[11:55:47] <ryan_turner> Well that just put an end to my project :P
[11:56:08] <cpresser> get some old mainboard from friends or ebay
[11:57:05] <ryan_turner> Yeah... hmm...
[11:57:16] <andypugh> bizarre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JFmrlgWAk
[11:57:16] <Tecan> (b3JFmrlgWAk) "Trained Fish Does Amazing Tricks" by "r2fishschool" is "Animals" - Length: 0:00:35
[11:57:17] <ryan_turner> ok, guess this isn't going to be a holiday project :P
[11:57:29] <Loetmichel> cpresser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex39zP8alnY thats a typical reprap board with 4 steppers and 5 Drivers (the small square plugs left "upper level"
[11:57:30] <Tecan> (ex39zP8alnY) "ramps1 4 test" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:38
[11:57:59] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: pc or laptop?
[11:58:10] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, with regards to what?
[11:58:13] <Loetmichel> DEsktop Pc or laptop
[11:58:22] <Loetmichel> for the LinuxCNC
[11:58:24] <ryan_turner> I was hoping to run off of a desktop
[11:58:33] <Loetmichel> better so ;-)
[11:58:52] <Loetmichel> and the desktop has no lpt left?
[11:58:58] <ryan_turner> nope
[11:58:59] <Loetmichel> lpt port
[11:59:24] <Loetmichel> hmm, cheap PCI LPT cards are about 10 eur or so
[11:59:34] <Loetmichel> should fit
[11:59:47] <Loetmichel> how fast is that desktop?
[11:59:54] <andypugh> If it is a desktop then you should be able to install a PCI parallel card (or, better, some proper IO hardware). There is also a pretty good chance that there is a parallel port header on the motherboard, even if there isn't one on the back panel.
[12:00:00] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, why is it suitable to have an LPT card instead of a USB?
[12:00:18] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: becuase USB isnt realtime capable
[12:00:25] <ryan_turner> Ah, ok.
[12:00:30] <andypugh> USB isn't time-deterministic. You can send a stp request and actually get it 10mS later.
[12:00:38] <JT-Shop> we sure need a link to answer the USB, serial questions
[12:00:43] <Loetmichel> -> you cant "wiggle" with a portpin with 50khz over usb ;-)
[12:01:03] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, it's a core i7 with SSD
[12:01:33] <Loetmichel> andypugh: iirc the max specified round trip for a usb packet is about ONE SECOND ;-)
[12:01:34] <andypugh> That might be inconveniently high-spec and complicated
[12:02:22] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: thats a bit "shooting with cannons on singing birds" ;-)
[12:02:24] <ryan_turner> andypugh, ugh, sounds like my radio programming people... cant have a processor faster than about 512 MHz or it causes problems
[12:02:34] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, its the only desktop I own.
[12:02:38] <ryan_turner> (its what Im on right now)
[12:03:24] <andypugh> Well, it's pretty easy to burn the LinuxCNC live CD, boot from that, and run the latency test. No changes to the pC needed.
[12:03:39] <andypugh> What's your current OS?
[12:03:39] <archivist> find a more sensible pc at a garage sale
[12:03:52] <ryan_turner> andypugh, ubuntu 13.04 with a few VMs
[12:04:10] <ryan_turner> archivist, I'd really prefer to not pick up more hardware. I'm a college student with limited budget/space
[12:05:04] <andypugh> Thought so. We are waiting for RTAI support in 3.NNN kernels. So (embarassingly) LinuxCNC doesn't really work on anyhting newer than 10,04 at the moment. (yes, we know...)
[12:05:25] <ryan_turner> Heh :D
[12:05:35] <archivist> running a realtime os under a vm is also not really sensible
[12:05:55] <andypugh> I do it all the time, for testing, but it wouldn't run real hardware.
[12:06:03] <Loetmichel> archivist: thats like "putting the suare thing in the round hole ;-)
[12:06:08] <Loetmichel> square
[12:06:23] <archivist> I prefer hex
[12:06:23] <ryan_turner> I didnt mean to say that as a recommendation for how to run this?
[12:06:36] <Roguish> Ryan_turner: what ever u do, be sure to use opto isolators to keep the magic smoke inside the PC where it belongs.
[12:06:57] <Loetmichel> Roguish: if he uses a cheap lpt card: who cars
[12:07:00] <Loetmichel> cares
[12:07:01] <ryan_turner> Whats the opinion of you guys on the PICnc Jr board?
[12:07:04] <andypugh> ryan_turner: The BeagleBoneBlack might be a solution. When we get that going too. Run LinuxCNC on the bone (lots of lovely IO) and control it with a web interface.
[12:07:12] <archivist> bare metal old pc most have cost me zero
[12:07:20] <Loetmichel> the card will act as a sacrifice in case of any mishap
[12:07:40] <ryan_turner> andypugh, yeahg i was just looking through a raspi solution, beagle fits better but didnt find any results for that.
[12:07:42] <IchGuckLive> hi all Back B)
[12:07:50] <ryan_turner> andypugh, http://code.google.com/p/picnc/ the bottom looks most interesting to me.
[12:08:13] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: where are you located?
[12:08:19] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, Memphis TN USA
[12:08:20] <andypugh> I just sent off the artwork to the PCB manufacturers for an RPi to Parallel port adapter :-)
[12:08:40] <Loetmichel> in germany i can buy second hand Coputers from leasing for next to noting
[12:08:59] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, shouldnt cost much here either, but space is a concern living in a 10' x 10' room
[12:09:12] <Loetmichel> i woudlt go through the hassle to put the only PC to work on this. i would buy a cheap desktop
[12:09:19] <archivist> stack vertically
[12:09:24] <Loetmichel> ans even use its PSU for the mill ;-)
[12:09:47] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: thats about nie square meters?
[12:09:49] <ryan_turner> Heh dont worry I've got an overkill 40 amp linear power supply
[12:09:52] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, yeah
[12:09:59] <ryan_turner> err 30 amp *
[12:10:02] <Loetmichel> my workshop is bigger... 3*4m ;-)
[12:10:10] <andypugh> How big is the desktop case? Room for a second mini-ITX atom board in there? Can share PSU that way.
[12:10:10] <ryan_turner> Yeah and thats my bedroom
[12:10:30] <ryan_turner> yeah a mini would fit most likely
[12:10:41] <ryan_turner> but now Im curious about the raspi or beagle route
[12:10:41] <Tom_itx> andypugh what pcb company did you go with?
[12:10:58] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: and no room left, too... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9033
[12:10:59] <Loetmichel> :-)
[12:11:06] <Loetmichel> <- messie :-)
[12:11:10] <ryan_turner> Anyway, Ill be watching in here for a bit :)
[12:11:13] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: pete from tenesy is about 25mil away from you
[12:11:14] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Seeed.
[12:11:25] <ryan_turner> IchGuckLive, I dont know who that is
[12:11:59] <IchGuckLive> he is also a linuxcnc reprap men
[12:12:05] <ryan_turner> ah
[12:12:11] <DJ9DJ> IchGuckLive, from where?
[12:12:27] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: he will join us not every day but offen
[12:12:29] <ryan_turner> Its a lazy way to say tennessee
[12:12:37] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[12:12:48] <IchGuckLive> tennessee O.O B)
[12:12:59] <DJ9DJ> :)
[12:13:25] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: iirc IchGuckLive is german like me, cut him some slack on his english ;-)
[12:13:31] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: the D525Mw board gives you way more options
[12:13:45] <DJ9DJ> channel overtake by the krauts ;)
[12:14:04] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: "PSSST!"
[12:14:06] <Loetmichel> :-)
[12:14:22] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: way more krauts in the USA as they eat hotdogs B)
[12:15:55] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: at non space room so what is the main goal for the mashine to be reatched
[12:16:06] <ryan_turner> IchGuckLive, PCB cutting
[12:16:24] <ryan_turner> just need something small.
[12:16:25] <IchGuckLive> ah my little education mashines !!!
[12:16:51] <Loetmichel> the best are the american co-workers of my wife... quote:" I am german, too!" wife: "so you speak german?" "no, sorry. But my gandgrandpa was german!"
[12:17:16] <ryan_turner> something like 150 x 150 x 50 mm would be plenty
[12:17:18] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG
[12:17:31] <IchGuckLive> its 160x160x65
[12:17:56] <ryan_turner> So, bed moves Y, and the Z is mounted on moving x
[12:17:58] <IchGuckLive> place is 250x250x300
[12:18:06] <ryan_turner> Yeah, that's about the perfect size
[12:18:14] <ryan_turner> I dont have a way to manufacture that though
[12:18:41] <ryan_turner> I was hoping to get away with as much 3D printed as possible. Probably going to use aluminum extrusions and 3D printed parts.
[12:18:47] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: the proxxon minimot: you must nbe kidding!
[12:18:53] <IchGuckLive> then get a Chinas one at that size for 400USD
[12:19:25] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: aluminium extrusions tend to be bend as a banana because of the production process
[12:19:35] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, oh?
[12:19:36] <Loetmichel> -s+like
[12:20:09] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: ok, the banana was exaggerated
[12:20:40] <Loetmichel> but an 40*40mm aluminium extrusion with t-slots can be bent 5mm on a meter length
[12:20:45] <Loetmichel> BTST
[12:21:17] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: pete has a shop and can help you with the parts
[12:21:37] <IchGuckLive> it woudt be chep as 250USD to build
[12:22:37] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: student
[12:22:39] * DJ9DJ thinks IchGuckLive's keyboard must be broken in some way. It seems to eat letters!
[12:22:46] <fragalot_> ryan_turner: lil' tip: STAY AWAY from the "sable 2015"
[12:22:56] <ryan_turner> LOL
[12:22:57] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: you got it
[12:22:58] <ryan_turner> was just looking at it
[12:23:02] <Loetmichel> if he wants to reuse his reprap parts 250$ is off the chart ;-)
[12:23:09] <fragalot_> I have one for PCB cutting, and there's a .3mm bow in the bed, and .5mm play on the Y bearings
[12:23:29] * fragalot_ is selling his reprap
[12:23:30] <ryan_turner> wow
[12:23:34] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: seems reasonable ;-)
[12:23:45] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: perfect for styrofoam mauling
[12:24:12] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: let me guess: the rails are 8mm mild steel?
[12:24:17] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: bu not in size
[12:24:19] <Loetmichel> NON-supported?
[12:24:26] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: no they're actually 12mm hardened
[12:24:36] <fragalot_> unsupported for ~40cm or so
[12:24:45] <Loetmichel> not MUCH better ;-)
[12:24:48] <fragalot_> :P
[12:25:11] <Loetmichel> my really cheap chinese "mill" has 20mm hardened rails in y
[12:25:18] <Loetmichel> unsupported for 400mm
[12:25:28] <Loetmichel> and THAT tends to be a bit thin :-)
[12:25:31] <fragalot_> haha
[12:25:43] <fragalot_> well only the X is unsupported
[12:25:50] <fragalot_> the Z isn't supported either, but that's only 10cm long
[12:25:52] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6nphBHcuZrw
[12:25:53] <Tecan> (6nphBHcuZrw) "Styrocut Styroporschneiden in 5Achsen XYBUV" by "Thiel Volker" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:50
[12:25:55] <fragalot_> the Y is fully supported
[12:26:01] <fragalot_> but the bed is bowed so it doesn't really matter anyway xD
[12:26:17] <fragalot_> wait, it's the X bearings with the play on 'm
[12:26:22] <fragalot_> which prevent me from milling the bed flat
[12:26:53] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148 <- anyway: it does its job, and 2kEur fir a mill with a watercooled spindle, vfd and tools, "plug and pray" ... you have to compromize a bit
[12:26:53] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: I made a machine like that in uni :) later we converted it to be an automated cocktail bartender
[12:26:56] <fragalot_> quite fun
[12:27:03] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: why not vacuum table and plane milling
[12:27:12] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: NotBad
[12:27:24] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: the play in the X bearings is too much to do anythin guseful
[12:27:33] <Loetmichel> it even cale with a c axis ;)
[12:27:33] <fragalot_> I need to replace those but the way it's built doesn't make that very easy
[12:27:38] <Loetmichel> came
[12:28:07] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: neat - is it worth anything?
[12:28:15] <Loetmichel> more or less
[12:28:22] <fragalot_> lol
[12:28:26] <Loetmichel> its the only thing that has some play
[12:28:31] <IchGuckLive> there are cheep smale and flat vacuum Tabless available for less then 100USD
[12:28:31] <Loetmichel> about half a degree
[12:29:00] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: that doesent help if his x axis is cluttering around
[12:29:15] <IchGuckLive> agree
[12:29:26] <fragalot_> I used to have a micro vice on there that was milled sorta flat
[12:29:26] <IchGuckLive> so first fix the miss
[12:29:32] <fragalot_> (20mm high, 150mm clamping)
[12:29:33] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: a question: are you from the ex-DDR?
[12:29:41] <IchGuckLive> no
[12:29:45] <fragalot_> was OK for PCB's, if they didn't have to be accurate :D
[12:29:54] <Loetmichel> because your englis reads like you never learned it at school
[12:29:57] <Loetmichel> +h
[12:29:57] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: you know 40km south of you
[12:30:05] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: well the X is cluttering, causing problems in the Y direction :P
[12:30:30] <fragalot_> first I suspected the Z, those turned out fine and had adjustment screws.. the Y for some reason does not
[12:30:44] <IchGuckLive> the 2015
[12:31:16] <fragalot_> and I just don't have the budget to really fix it at the moment
[12:31:28] <IchGuckLive> there is a ballbearing kit out for that mashine that fits with no extra work
[12:31:46] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: it's got ball bearings now.. what kit are you talking about?
[12:31:48] <IchGuckLive> AH money makes the world go round
[12:32:08] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: my fist CNC had m5 stainless threaded rods and brass nuts as drive...
[12:32:12] * fragalot_ knows it's got ball bearings because the first time he took it apart they all fell out :D
[12:32:19] <Loetmichel> lasted about 8 hrs
[12:32:23] <fragalot_> lol
[12:32:35] <IchGuckLive> ROFL
[12:32:35] <Loetmichel> then the nuts had a nice and smoot 5mm hol instead of a thread ;-)
[12:32:37] <fragalot_> my first had M8 stainless with brass nuts...
[12:32:45] <fragalot_> NEVER trust your endstops
[12:32:47] <fragalot_> that's all I can say
[12:33:02] <fragalot_> I warped the whole frame and ended up binning everything but the motors & electronics
[12:33:05] <fragalot_> xD
[12:33:10] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[12:33:25] <Loetmichel> that wouldnt be possibel with my first...
[12:33:30] <Loetmichel> possible
[12:33:37] <fragalot_> well I kinda underspecced the frame..
[12:33:45] <fragalot_> it wasn't very fast, but it had a lot of torue
[12:33:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[12:33:56] <fragalot_> N17 motors with a 10:1 reduction
[12:33:56] <fragalot_> xD
[12:34:01] <fragalot_> (read: EXTREMELY SLOW)
[12:34:16] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: cute!
[12:34:19] <Loetmichel> it wouldnt have bent... just disitegrated in millions of little PMMA shards ;-)
[12:34:25] <fragalot_> lol
[12:34:47] <IchGuckLive> PMMA Poly Methyl Met acrylat
[12:34:57] <IchGuckLive> "Plexiglas"
[12:35:07] <Loetmichel> right
[12:35:16] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: is IchGuckLive drunk? :P
[12:35:41] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: no, it seems he learned english by hearing it, not by a school ;-)
[12:35:56] <fragalot_> I used to always correct my teacher, lol
[12:36:04] <fragalot_> later she ended up coming to me for help instead >.<
[12:36:15] <Loetmichel> sounds familliar...
[12:36:25] <fragalot_> hey look what a bargain!
[12:36:26] <fragalot_> http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/321130744404?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
[12:36:29] <fragalot_> *cough*
[12:36:36] <fragalot_> *nudge*
[12:36:56] <fragalot_> *wink*
[12:38:08] <Loetmichel> <- had made an "umschlulung" ( sponmsored second aprenticeship by the unemplyment agency)... 22 people, one was a gardener, one was a sports teacher one was a baker and so on... i was the ONLY one who had a computer background... the aprenticeship was for the "IT-systems electronican" job...
[12:38:31] <Loetmichel> ... it lasted three days than anone just called me "prof" ;-)
[12:38:56] <fragalot_> haha
[12:40:52] <Loetmichel> and one of the teachers never said more than three sentences, then looked in my direction to check if i am nodding or shaking my head ;)
[12:42:47] <fragalot_> XD
[12:43:39] <IchGuckLive> holgi: O.O B) new vid on gamepad
[12:48:24] <ryan_turner> seen PetefromTn
[12:48:31] <ryan_turner> !seen PetefromTn
[12:48:32] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-05-24 03:29:44GMT 87:04:56 ago, saying Client Quit
[13:00:00] <IchGuckLive> silence 1
[13:00:51] <skroon> I would like to level my spoilboard, with some custom written gcode program, i'm wondering though how I can make a loop? so I can say repeate last movement but with X-1.4 ? and keep repeating until X == 85.0 ?
[13:02:06] <andypugh> LinuxCNC G-code supports loops.
[13:03:51] <skroon> is there a "native" way in gcode alone?
[13:03:59] <andypugh> #1 = -1.4 // O100 while [#1 LT 85] // G0 X#1 Y100 // #1 = [#1 + 0.25] // O100 endwhile // M2
[13:04:48] <andypugh> I missed out the G1 move there....
[13:05:48] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html
[13:10:38] <skroon> nice thanks
[13:21:00] <IchGuckLive> skroon: there is a pattern example in the nc-file folder
[13:28:40] <IchGuckLive> here is the pattern example for X main and Y main action http://pastebin.com/5s44j6bU
[13:29:06] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today
[13:58:28] <cbjamo> Is anyone from Mesa around?
[13:59:27] <Tom_itx> ping pcw_home
[13:59:52] <cbjamo> thanks
[14:01:29] <cbjamo> Or, does anyone know how much the "7I50 SPI I/O expander" costs? It isn't listed on the pricelist.
[14:02:22] <andypugh> It is in the price list. $45
[14:02:37] <andypugh> (It is under accessories)
[14:05:30] <cbjamo> I can't find, are you using a different one than this: http://www.mesanet.com/prices.pdf
[14:09:41] <pcw_home> I would suggest a sserial expander instead of the 7I50, just because it more integrated into linuxCNC
[14:11:18] <andypugh> Yes, I seem to be looking at a different price list.
[14:11:38] <pcw_home> s/it/its/
[14:12:36] <skroon> those "numbered parameters" is that something LinuxCNC is using only, or is it in the gcode spec?
[14:13:02] <andypugh> Things like #1 ?
[14:13:14] <andypugh> Very standard.
[14:13:40] <andypugh> #<human_readable_name> is a bit less standard.
[14:14:27] <pcw_home> andtpugh: noticed a sserial bug
[14:15:33] <cbjamo> pcw_home: What part would you recommend? I need 12 digital outs, 6 digital ins, and some way to sense temperature, I haven't decided how yet.
[14:16:30] <pcw_home> connected to what?
[14:16:43] <cbjamo> 5I22
[14:16:56] <andypugh> pcw_home: Hopefully andtpugh can fix it for you :-)
[14:17:07] <skroon> andypugh: right indeed stuff like #1 so if I understand correctly when I would do: #1 100.0 G00 X#1
[14:17:10] <pcw_home> you are out of 5I22 pins already?
[14:17:19] <skroon> then it should move the X axis to 100.0 right?
[14:17:23] <pcw_home> HA
[14:17:46] <andypugh> Needs to be #1 = 100 (assignment)
[14:17:50] <cbjamo> No, I was going to use the 7I46 so that I could read temperatures in over serial.
[14:18:40] <skroon> andypugh: ah yeah forgot the assignment there.. but basically that should do it right ?
[14:19:24] <cbjamo> Relatedly, how difficult would that be to do from a linux cnc standpoint?
[14:19:36] <pcw_home> The SPI /LinuxCNC interface is fairly hairy...
[14:20:18] <skroon> andypugh: for some reason my machine doesn't like that syntax
[14:20:59] <cbjamo> Ok, how would you reccomend temperature sensing? I need to sense 5 separate temps, between 180-300 C.
[14:21:36] <andypugh> cbjamo: Arduino/USB works for non-realtime.
[14:23:33] <pcw_home> I would use a 7I88 (when we finish it)
[14:23:44] <pcw_home> 8 channels TC
[14:26:51] <pcw_home> Well, much as I try, I can put off cleaning the chicken coops no longer
[14:30:00] <andypugh> cbjamo: When he says that the SPI interface is a bit hairy, he means that you will need to write a driver like mesa_7i65.comp.
[14:30:27] <pcw_home> andypugh sserial bug is: remote faults (say a 7I76 shorted output) are not detected when running, only at startup
[14:31:52] <cbjamo> pcw_home: any idea on when the 7I88 will be available? If it isn't in the next 2ish weeks then I'll need to go with something else.
[14:33:17] <pcw_home> This is because the runtime error check is not run unless there is a transfer failure (but you can have a remote fault like overcurrent or overvoltage or undervoltage that is not a communication error so the transfer succeeds)
[14:35:20] <pcw_home> cbjamo: Probably not in the next 2 weeks, If its not realtime, the Arduino Idea may work for you, (or a 7I87 = 8 +-10V analog inputs)
[14:37:00] <cbjamo> pcw_home: I'll probably use an arduino, and run the heater mosfets from it as well, then just run the pid on there. I was hoping to do it all from the one card if I could.
[14:43:03] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, whats the water system like for that spindle? need pressure/temp/flow control? (or a bucket and bilge pump :)
[14:48:16] <tjtr33> got a model http://ugracnc.com/technical-resources/cnc-spindles/simple-spindle-water-cooling-system.html
[14:53:10] <Loetmichel> tjr: pump for a room fountain, aquarium tubes, somme car cooler fluid and water-> done
[14:53:31] <Loetmichel> if the bucket with the pump is big enough no designated radiator is needed
[14:53:38] <Loetmichel> tjtr33
[14:54:11] <Loetmichel> look at my home CNC
[14:54:43] <tjtr33> thx! got some aquaruim pumps and a 'Little Giant'
[14:55:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[14:55:28] <Tecan> (a9Ov69t0uwo) "HFspindel fertig" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:38
[14:59:38] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, thx! reminds me of the 'wordless workshop in old Popular Mechanics ) http://www.roydoty.com/syndicated/wordless-panel.htm
[16:27:43] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:46:57] <Logxen> say, does anyone in here know how 4th-6th axis rotary support works? i am a motion controller firmware developer and I am trying to figure out specifically what existing cam tools are going to generate gcode-wise
[17:47:35] <andypugh> It depends...
[17:48:11] <andypugh> I think a lot is done in pure CAM, where the CAM system knows the rotation axis positions relative to the tool tips.
[17:49:26] <Logxen> andypugh: that's what I'm hoping ;)
[17:49:28] <andypugh> However it is possible (with the right kinematics) to program tool-point positions.
[17:50:07] <Logxen> the combined feedrate thing I've read about sorta worries me though for some reason
[17:50:08] <andypugh> With moving-work it is a bit hard to visualise, because your planes move with the work.
[17:51:26] <andypugh> That is partly why it works better in the CAM much of the time, or that is my assumption. The CAM system knows a lot more about the cut and the system as a whole than the controller can. All that the controller sees is the G-code.
[17:52:22] <Logxen> exactly... so I would expect the cam needs to segment the gcode quite a bit
[17:53:18] <andypugh> It gets awkward, as Gcode can only really define curves in the cartesian planes.
[17:53:27] <Logxen> so I kinda want to verify how the existing systems work with someone who is familiar with them before I start coding ;)
[17:53:30] <Logxen> yeah exactly
[17:54:51] <andypugh> I don't know why. It seems that given a start position and an end position there is only one plane that also includes any given centre position, and only one radius that touches both end-points.
[17:55:34] <andypugh> Well, I have never touched the motion planner.
[17:56:27] <Logxen> andypugh: it's my hope that you are right... it would mean that I don't actually have to do anything special with the rotary axes... just throw them on the pile with linear axes
[17:56:43] <andypugh> I think the last person to touch motion was cradek
[17:57:51] <andypugh> A lot of "5-axis" work isn't really.
[17:58:40] <Logxen> yeah... if I'm gonna implement 4 I might as well implement 6 though as far as the firmware goes
[17:59:02] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh9eCupbsso looks to be "real" 5-axis cutting.
[17:59:03] <Tecan> (Oh9eCupbsso) "Linuxcnc-5axis- 2" by "Rudy du Preez" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:13
[17:59:37] <Logxen> wow that's awesome
[18:00:24] <andypugh> Claims to be using XYZACkins
[18:00:52] <andypugh> So I think he is programming tool XYZ and AC relative to the workpiece.
[18:01:17] <andypugh> ie, A and C are tilt angles relative to the bit of wood.
[18:01:59] <andypugh> But I am not usre that is the usual way of doing that.
[18:02:02] <Logxen> andypugh: yeah, centered on workpiece as opposed to the tool?
[18:02:09] <Logxen> I think it can be either
[18:02:30] <andypugh> (I keep thinking I can hear myself talking in the backgorund of that video, but it is actually a normal person speeded up)
[18:04:06] <andypugh> Logxen: Yes. If you consider a robot arm, then the AC is realtive to the floor, because the "tool" moves with the roatary axes.
[18:04:41] <andypugh> But if the work moves ralative to the tool, then the coordinate system moves (and rotates) with the work
[18:05:01] * Logxen nods
[18:05:22] <andypugh> But you may very well not need to worry about that. Leaving it to the CAM is perfectly valid I think
[18:05:46] <Logxen> yeah I think I'm supposed to just trig the values in as if they were linear
[18:06:00] <Logxen> so to speak :P
[18:06:23] <Logxen> and the cam has to know where everything is relatively
[18:09:35] <crotchet> Logxen: The way most cam works is to output an intermediate file that, in the case of normal 3d, just has tool position. For multi-axis, you need tool position *and* a tool vector direction. Then it's the post writer's job to make it work with the given machine.
[18:14:33] <Logxen> I see... so one could choose to take over at either stage...
[18:15:18] <Logxen> I want a spec for that intermediate point
[18:16:14] <Logxen> are you sure the rot is expressed as a vector and not in degrees?
[18:18:22] <crotchet> http://pastebin.com/wGJ3aZE8
[18:19:39] <Logxen> hm, that's not even gcode yet
[18:19:44] <crotchet> That is a type of intermediate file accepted by most cam programs. The first 3 numbers are position. The next line, on the $ continuation, is the vector direction.
[18:20:01] <Logxen> yeah makes sense
[18:20:04] <crotchet> 0,0,1, is along the z axis
[18:21:57] <crotchet> In this case, the x component of the tool axis is zero- this was for a 4th axis only machine, the only type I have experience in.
[18:22:22] <Logxen> http://www.cncsnw.com/4thHowTo.htm
[18:22:37] <Logxen> that ^ describes using degrees instead of vector
[18:26:47] <crotchet> the vectors and the positions get converted into x,y,z,a, in the post.
[23:41:36] <Willburrrr2003> been a great weekend, yesterday i got my software upgraded from emc 2.4.6 to linuxcnc 2.5.0 , and today i set my lathe set back up and wired back into it's control panel. About an hour ago i booted the system and ran the lathe through movement, homing, and spindle control tests. I'm ecstatic to have my lathe up and running again!