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[02:08:55] <DJ9DJ> moin
[04:43:35] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:53:03] <RyanS> http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/advert/Mazak-CNC-vertical-Mill-machine-centre/83940/ if only there were room in our garage and we had three-phase power...
[05:09:22] <toastydeath> what i love about schools that buy a vmc is they don't realize they ship with the head down
[05:09:37] <toastydeath> and so the first time they fire it up the head of the machine goes straight through the ceiling
[05:09:43] <toastydeath> happened at my votech school
[05:15:13] <roh> hihi
[05:26:24] <RyanS> lol, and they don't account for the clearance when they purchase it?
[05:29:27] <archivist> get item build shed around it
[05:34:09] <toastydeath> they often skirt it
[05:34:30] <toastydeath> "ah machine is 7 foot, 11 inches? that just makes it!"
[05:34:37] <toastydeath> nope, cables and other shit protrude upwards
[05:39:30] <RyanS> is a 1985 Mazak likely to be pretty stuffed at that price?
[05:43:03] <archivist> depends on ones definition of "stuffed"
[05:59:08] <RyanS> Only vaguely accurate, and not serviceable because the parts are unavailable?
[06:03:12] <toastydeath> the tip for buying a used cnc like that is two fold
[06:03:25] <toastydeath> one, pick a very popular, high end brand - of which Mazak is one.
[06:03:41] <toastydeath> second, pick a machine that is popular and not low end. Mazak made some low end machines.
[06:04:00] <toastydeath> if you got a high end Mazak, it's unlikely to be all that shitty.
[06:04:22] <toastydeath> I used a OKK at work from 1960 and it was really nice.
[06:04:41] <toastydeath> ballscrews the size of my arm, and the box way was literally 3 feet wide.
[06:04:52] <toastydeath> (which was bigger than the table it supporteD)
[06:05:20] <toastydeath> a machine like that is more likely to be in good condition even if it was beat on than a shittier machine that hasn't been used all that roughly
[06:05:40] <toastydeath> i don't know if that particular model of mazak is one of their better ones
[06:06:33] <toastydeath> also, a geared head, plain way machine is going to be more survivable than a direct drive, linear way machine - if you have the option.
[06:08:00] <RyanS> hmm do high end CNC machines now use the screws that are the next step up from ballscrews (I can't remember what they are called)
[06:08:10] <toastydeath> no
[06:08:16] <RyanS> Worm drive leads screws..
[06:08:40] <toastydeath> ballscrews are still the standard, some machines obviously use some other technology
[06:09:00] <toastydeath> the general jump goes from ballscrew to linear motor, not to the more esoteric drives
[06:09:08] <toastydeath> and linear motors are for smaller, faster machines
[06:09:35] <RyanS> And trains :)
[06:09:50] <RyanS> While it's sort of magnetic levitation
[06:10:10] <toastydeath> to be honest, your best bet is probably to get a used mori seiki mill
[06:10:19] <toastydeath> they're very high end, and are prolific
[06:10:48] <toastydeath> the boards and shit for their controls are expensive (1k-2k usd) but don't break all that often and are available
[06:11:18] <RyanS> I'm not in the market...... just curious bystander
[06:12:53] <toastydeath> mori seiki, kitamura, matsurra, etc all served the high end of the market in the 80s and not the low end, so those machines are the ones I'd personally look at
[06:13:08] <toastydeath> Mazak served everyone and so is more hit or miss
[06:13:20] <RyanS> are haas cheapo ? They look pretty average on the surface anyway....
[06:13:28] <toastydeath> haas is low end, yeah.
[06:13:37] <toastydeath> they're on part with any of the modern no-name import brands
[06:13:39] <toastydeath> *on par
[06:14:38] <toastydeath> their controls are also shitty
[06:14:48] <RyanS> I thought there are some pretty high hand machines from Taiwan these days?
[06:14:54] <toastydeath> sure
[06:15:10] <toastydeath> "no name" import, not "high end, name brand machine from taiwan or japan"
[06:15:31] <toastydeath> there are machine builders who buy stock parts (castings, etc) and assemble machines piecemeal
[06:15:57] <toastydeath> and so the machines are a hodgepodge of off the shelf parts
[06:16:07] <toastydeath> nothing wrong with that, but they're not super high quality
[06:16:27] <toastydeath> I am actually a fan of small lathes built that way
[06:17:04] <toastydeath> we had a few 8x20" lathes that weighed about 4 tons each, fast spindles and more than enough power for their size
[06:17:28] <RyanS> Brand I have seen is Mitseki, apparently they are a Taiwanese OEM that builds machines for some of the big names
[06:17:43] <toastydeath> because the parts are off the shelf, it's cheaper to just buy the same motor, same turret, same spindle, etc across a bunch of machine sizes
[06:17:57] <toastydeath> so you get a wildly overbuilt small lathe, but as the size goes up it becomes shitty
[06:18:12] <RyanS> ah
[06:18:41] <toastydeath> also I think chinese brands are going to be the folks to watch
[06:19:48] <RyanS> They are the world's second biggest economy is I don't see why manufacturing quality isn't going to increase
[06:20:09] <toastydeath> my suspicion is that they've got some very high quality machines but they just don't export
[06:21:08] <RyanS> Probably.. Unless manufacturers of high quality parts are using Japanese machines
[06:21:24] <toastydeath> china doesn't like importing manufacturing equipment
[06:21:49] <toastydeath> my understanding is that if you want to import a machine, you have to prove that you can't find something rougly equivalent in-country
[06:21:50] <RyanS> Not economical perhaps...
[06:22:28] <RyanS> oh the government mandates it
[06:22:41] <toastydeath> yeah
[06:22:44] <RyanS> To boost the local manufacturer perhaps?
[06:23:04] <toastydeath> well, it keeps that economic sector strong because it eliminates outside influence
[06:24:01] <toastydeath> the flow of capital becomes a closed loop
[06:24:13] <toastydeath> rather than what the US did
[06:24:49] <RyanS> Protectionism... The US does it with agriculture that's about it
[06:26:31] <RyanS> in Australia manufacturing is like 100 times more profitable for less resources than agriculture
[06:29:55] <RyanS> you think the "3-D printing revolution" bandied about in the media is over optimistic? It doesn't seem much like a revolution to me
[06:34:25] <toastydeath> super optimistic
[06:34:57] <toastydeath> look around you and think about how much stuff you own that is JUST plastic.
[06:35:02] <toastydeath> no other parts whatsoever
[06:35:15] <toastydeath> it'll get there someday, but not this decade.
[06:36:00] <RyanS> But there are a lot of things but simply can't be only plastic
[06:36:15] <toastydeath> that's what i'm saying
[06:36:29] <toastydeath> but they're working on printing things like traces
[06:36:32] <toastydeath> and some pick/place stuff
[06:36:38] <RyanS> Okay I get you
[06:37:07] <toastydeath> i am personally optimistic about it because i think it will usher in some philosophical changes as well as changes in manufacturing
[06:37:29] <toastydeath> it's a wonderfully good thing, but the media has shown very little interest in understanding anything with nuance
[06:38:57] <RyanS> DMLS is the only process that can print metal as far as I know.. And very expensive
[06:39:30] <toastydeath> they might try printing thermoset resins with a low melting temp alloy
[06:39:53] <toastydeath> i know it's not possible now, but I think the possibilities are too enticing for smart people not to work on it
[06:40:16] <toastydeath> or hey, a conductive thermoplastic.
[06:40:33] <gonzo_> the only advantage I can see 3d printing gives is that it saves the need for an injection mould. But for small runs/prototypes, there is a little known technique called milling !
[06:40:52] <toastydeath> a 3d printer can make things that are hard to mill
[06:41:16] <toastydeath> you can also make things like moulds for metal casting, which brings the cost of one-off cast parts down
[06:41:20] <RyanS> True however can you see it ever replacing injection moulding for manufacturing?
[06:41:34] <toastydeath> i've never thought that 3d printing will replace anything
[06:41:39] <toastydeath> any more than a milling machine replaces a lathe
[06:41:45] <gonzo_> that is true, but the people who seem to be pushing this are not engineers
[06:42:14] <toastydeath> sure, they're overly optimistic computer science people who have never been involved in manufacturing
[06:42:31] <toastydeath> like anything that group gets involved with, they'll be wrong and then people who know what they're doing will start to use it
[06:42:55] <RyanS> I think 3-D printing is more of of an evolution of already existing processes it just makes prototyping faster
[06:43:00] <toastydeath> yep
[06:43:13] <gonzo_> Yep, I hear it all the time at work. Mainly be people who do not even own a set of spanners
[06:43:31] <toastydeath> i think it WILL evolve to a point where some classes of parts are made entirely by 3d printing on an as-needed basis
[06:43:48] <toastydeath> I would print vice jaws, for example.
[06:44:01] <toastydeath> for holding delicate parts or things at an odd angle.
[06:44:21] <toastydeath> you could print the human-interfaced part of proesthetics
[06:44:35] <toastydeath> rifle stocks and similar things - handles, knobs
[06:44:40] <toastydeath> replacement parts
[06:44:54] <toastydeath> making a knob for a project on a lathe is annoying as fuck
[06:45:00] <toastydeath> if i could just print one? awesome.
[06:45:43] <toastydeath> I actually see the 3d printer as almost a repair tool
[06:45:52] <RyanS> there have been so many "technological revolutions" since the industrial revolution and none of them really come close
[06:46:18] <toastydeath> I think a 3d printer would be fucking awesome if it were able to modify existing parts as well - imagine a 5 axis stage on a 3d printer
[06:46:31] <toastydeath> with not only an injection nozzle, but a hot air welder
[06:46:48] <toastydeath> so that you could extend and add material to things that already exist
[06:47:13] <RyanS> I saw something like a laser deposition machine that did repairs
[06:47:15] <toastydeath> make a part on a mill or lathe, then case it and add an ergonomic handle
[06:47:39] <toastydeath> you could make your own screwdrivers that way
[06:49:07] <RyanS> Facial prosthetics are stil done using old-fashioned moulding and casting
[06:49:44] <RyanS> If you could 3-D scan someone's face and built the part in cad
[06:50:05] <toastydeath> and you can, homebrew laser scanners exist
[06:50:23] <toastydeath> which is actually what my whole idea of a rework/deposition machine would rely on
[06:50:36] <RyanS> And printed in some biocompatible rubber
[06:51:22] <RyanS> However alginate and silicon moulding materials can be accurate enough to recreate fingerprints
[06:51:41] <RyanS> So the 3-D scanning would have to be pretty good quality
[06:52:04] <toastydeath> yeah that's not happening anytime soon, i don't think
[06:52:06] <RyanS> MRI?
[06:52:15] <toastydeath> ...for fingerprints?
[06:53:08] <RyanS> Isn't that how they create those reinforcement plates for a broken skull?]
[06:53:31] <RyanS> And then print it on DMLS
[06:54:15] <toastydeath> not saying mri isn't accurate enough to do that type of surgery
[06:54:17] <RyanS> I think im titanium
[06:54:40] <toastydeath> but scanning accurately enough to recreate fingerprints?
[06:54:54] <RyanS> Probably not
[06:55:25] <RyanS> Although if you are recreating a missing nose or something it probably doesn't need to be as accurate as that
[06:56:19] <RyanS> It actually an artistic skill really
[06:59:39] <RyanS> It would probably be useful to 3-D print architectural models for the latest ugly modern creation
[07:10:08] <gonzo_> as soon as someone demonstrates 3d printing of fingerprints, I wonder how long before someone successfullt argues against fingerprint evidence in court
[07:16:49] <L84Supper> toastydeath: it's not the tech, it's the patents holding 3d printing back in the west
[07:20:58] <RyanS> just wait till the consumables cost more than the printer like inkjets
[07:21:34] <archivist> they already do
[07:22:01] <RyanS> In 3-D printers?
[07:22:21] <archivist> plastic prices are rather high for 3d
[07:22:24] <L84Supper> thats why my crystal ball shows China taking over the tech just like they did with computers
[07:24:42] <L84Supper> you don't need to print fingers you just need to print finger residue just like a finger leaves on a surface
[07:51:38] <roh> L84Supper: patents for what?
[09:41:12] <ssi> YAWN
[09:41:12] <the_wench> wake up ssi
[09:41:21] <ssi> :o
[09:41:40] <Jymmm> yawn
[09:41:40] <the_wench> wake up Jymmm
[09:41:48] <Jymmm> fart
[10:06:05] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[10:09:41] <IchGuckLive> hope everyone is good in tonado alley no shop effected O.O
[10:23:32] <L84Supper> roh: various techniques for all sorts of additive manufacturing, take SLA for example, it hardly changed for 25 years
[10:25:09] <IchGuckLive> there are tecnics that even did not change for thausend of years
[10:25:50] <L84Supper> if there is a way for someone to miss the point, it will happen in IRC
[10:26:07] <ssi> my neighbor wants to help me patent this new form of manufacturing I've discovered
[10:26:11] <ssi> we call it "reverse 3d printing"
[10:26:32] <ssi> you take solid blocks of material, and use sharp tools to strategically remove bits until you're left with your desired 3d shape
[10:26:40] <L84Supper> is it anything like subtractive manufacturing?
[10:26:52] <ssi> it's going to revolutionize the hipster community
[10:26:55] <IchGuckLive> "reverse 3d printing" Melting the part on a elektro oven
[10:27:16] <ssi> I went to maker faire this weekend
[10:27:22] <ssi> it was fun, but a lot of those people are douchey :P
[10:27:28] <ssi> they think they invented CNC
[10:27:44] <ssi> tormach and cncrouterparts.com were there though
[10:27:45] <IchGuckLive> everyone thinks this
[10:27:46] <ssi> talked to Ahren a bit
[10:28:05] <jdh> in atlanta?
[10:28:10] <ssi> no in san mateo
[10:28:19] <IchGuckLive> ssi one mashine on linuxcnc ?
[10:28:32] <ssi> IchGuckLive: ?
[10:28:37] <ssi> I've got four machines on linuxcnc
[10:28:39] <ssi> not sure what you're asking :)
[10:28:51] <jdh> friend tried to go, said he spent an hour or so driving around to park then gave up
[10:28:52] <IchGuckLive> maker fair
[10:29:08] <ssi> I don't know if anyone there was on linuxcnc
[10:29:32] <PetefromTn> morning folks.
[10:29:32] <IchGuckLive> herei n germany you only see mach
[10:29:42] <ssi> I talked to a guy that built a cool little pick'n'place machine
[10:29:47] <L84Supper> I can't go to a makerfaire anymore, I just can't bear it
[10:29:49] <ssi> and he said his control software will work with linuxcnc
[10:30:24] <IchGuckLive> linuxcnc is standard iso interpreter
[10:30:31] <ssi> sure
[10:30:38] <ssi> but that doesn't mean his control software speaks rs274x
[10:30:45] <ssi> thankfully it sounds like it does
[10:32:13] <pcw_home> A pick and place hardly needs more than G0
[10:32:19] <ssi> yeah that's true
[10:32:29] <ssi> anyway the software is inconsequential
[10:32:35] <ssi> the mechanicals are the part I'm interested in
[10:32:57] <ssi> although his stuff was cool in that it had a camera on the toolhead, and the software would let you shoot two corners with teh camera and it would autoskew for you
[10:33:18] <L84Supper> I'm working on some new putting tools
[10:33:30] <jdh> you are a golfer?
[10:33:57] <IchGuckLive> pick and place is best on fixed cammera and fixed moving area
[10:34:16] <IchGuckLive> so max speed is the goal to be reatched
[10:34:41] <IchGuckLive> AI as go near or go fast
[10:35:18] <IchGuckLive> at the university programmers work out sutch stuff
[10:35:50] <IchGuckLive> let past one and üichk near first then move towards that one if it reatches max workarea
[10:36:03] <L84Supper> putting tools gets confused with golf, maybe joining tools or additive tools, but then one sounds like woodworking and the other like 2nd grade math
[10:37:44] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2VxY6IxZI
[10:37:45] <Tecan> (ae2VxY6IxZI) "pick chocolates with ABB robot flex picker VHA" by "Vanhoeckeautomation" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:23
[10:38:49] <L84Supper> but putter sounds dumb enough to get popular, any hipsters care to voice an opinion?
[10:39:00] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtlX8jpT1mQ
[10:39:01] <Tecan> (OtlX8jpT1mQ) "High Speed Robots - Three Adept Quattro Robots Working Together" by "AdeptRobots" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:04
[10:39:58] <L84Supper> maybe spelled wrong to make a new term, puting tool
[10:43:18] <IchGuckLive> timm later By
[10:43:54] <ssi> L84Supper: you mean a tool that puts things places? :D
[10:48:51] <L84Supper> if cutting tools take things away like material, what do you call a tool that puts materials vs cuts or removes?
[10:49:04] <ssi> adder?
[10:49:14] <ssi> putter is something that putts, and puter is a bad word
[10:50:19] <L84Supper> adder tool, yeah puter would be a new word, at least in English, or possibly confused with the short for computer
[10:50:24] <ssi> yea
[10:52:13] <jdh> you could just shoot anyone that uses it as short for computer.
[10:52:20] <archivist> or to get people to pronounce it correctly coin a new word pooter
[10:52:44] * archivist rushes to trademark it
[10:53:15] <archivist> but as it is now published too effin late :)
[10:53:57] <L84Supper> poohter
[10:54:23] * archivist strains at that version
[10:54:48] <L84Supper> extruding?
[10:55:00] <pcw_home> pooper tech
[10:56:59] <L84Supper> in Latin, posito tool
[11:09:23] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:10:20] <Gigs-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4qB6n1cm04
[11:10:20] <Tecan> (P4qB6n1cm04) "Woodturning with 150hp lathe -Crazy Canadian Woodworking" by "Paul Moore" is "Education" - Length: 0:06:05
[11:12:15] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/p8uuck3 $1K for bridgeport ballscrews not including the yoke, a bit pricey
[11:13:09] <L84Supper> anyone try Rockford ballscrews for their brigeport conversion?
[11:13:38] <L84Supper> http://www.rockfordballscrew.com/products/retrofit-kits/bridgeport-kits/
[11:17:44] <Loetmichel> Gigs-: backache included. and a bit on the dangerous side.
[11:18:02] <Loetmichel> tht would be MUCH to uncomfortable for me
[11:18:58] <Gigs-> L84Supper: what does that get you? no backlash?
[11:20:09] <Loetmichel> on a briodgeport? thats like feeding pearls to pigs ;-)
[11:20:48] <L84Supper> is that like making a silk purse from a sows ear?
[11:22:41] <Gigs-> my dad has an xcello, it's not too bad, heavy though
[11:22:58] <Gigs-> I believe that was the one he got basically free in exchange for extracting it from a basement
[11:24:05] <syyl_ws> for that, even i would take a bridgeport ;)
[11:25:13] <Gigs-> I'm not sure if he reinforced the floor under it
[11:25:34] <L84Supper> it's not on concrete?
[11:25:56] <Gigs-> it's concrete with runners and plywood
[11:26:38] <Gigs-> I'll have to look next time whether the floor under it was reinforced or not
[11:26:57] <Gigs-> he may have it bolted through to the concrete or something
[11:27:13] <Gigs-> I know it sometimes does vibrate the floor, it's a good early warning system :P
[11:28:00] <L84Supper> put some pillows down on the floor below, just in case
[11:28:11] <Gigs-> there's nothing below it
[11:28:14] <Gigs-> the slab is on dirt
[12:03:18] <andypugh> As a 5V buffer for a 3.3V RPi, would a ULN2003 be overkill? Would a
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/buffer-line-driver-combinations/6626245/ be more appropriate?
[12:06:25] <jdh> why would it be overkill?
[12:07:14] <andypugh> Rather more current-carying capacity than required, and also not necessarily an output style that people will understand.
[12:07:41] <L84Supper> I like it
[12:08:00] <andypugh> The switch-to-ground style output might confuse people trying to connect stepper drives.
[12:08:44] <L84Supper> be sure to post good examples
[12:09:09] <L84Supper> people that will get confused just want to follow a diagram anyway
[12:09:26] <chopper79> Hello everyone!! I have a question that hopefully someone could help me out on. The question is I would like to change the Touch Off button so it will touch off both X and Y at the same time instead of each axis by itself. I know think I could do it with an MDI command by using G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0. I can add a button to perform this task, but the then I will have two different touch off buttons. Is there a way to just modify the origanl touch off button to d
[12:09:42] <andypugh> <Context> I am thinking about a batch of PCBs to make it easier to connect RPi to stepper drives, now we have what appears to be a functional RPi stepper driver.
[12:11:04] <Tom_itx> andypugh, do you need a driver or just a level shifter?
[12:11:04] <andypugh> chopper79: Probably. But you need to speak tcl/tk I think :-)
[12:11:24] <andypugh> Level shifter and current boost.
[12:11:47] <Tom_itx> mmm NXP makes a nice level shifter but i'm not sure exactly what the current out is
[12:12:08] <andypugh> And I just realised something, I have no idea how to design something that allows you to have both inputs and outputs.
[12:12:09] <L84Supper> http://compare.ebay.com/like/170904115548?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
[12:12:34] <Tom_itx> andypugh these are bidirectional with no direction pin
[12:12:46] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:12:47] <Tom_itx> look at a GTL2003PW
[12:12:50] <Tom_itx> etc
[12:12:55] <Tom_itx> all sorts of widths
[12:13:21] <Tom_itx> may not be suited to your needs but i use them on my programmers
[12:13:23] <chopper79> Andy: I do not knw anything about that. So it appears I will just have to have a second button then? Is there a way to hide the origansl one?
[12:14:39] <andypugh> I think an entry in a .axisrc file will do that.
[12:23:20] <andypugh> something like forget(widgets.touch_off)
[12:26:24] <chopper79> Andy: I will look for that file and see what I can do
[12:26:42] <Tom_itx> i did the touchoff buttons but i didn't try combining x and y
[12:27:06] <chopper79> Tom: Did you keep the exsisting touchoff button?
[12:27:23] <Tom_itx> yes, i added them on the right side
[12:27:32] <andypugh> chopper79: You won't have a .axisrc, you need to make one
[12:27:32] <Tom_itx> pyvcp
[12:28:22] <chopper79> Ok I figured I could add them on the right side and use an dMDI command to make the function. I just did not want to have my new button and the old one still available
[12:28:54] <Tom_itx> for setting fixture offset right?
[12:29:03] <chopper79> Andy: I fI make one then add the line you stated. I will then place this new file where?
[12:29:41] <chopper79> Tom: I just want o move to a lovcation and set the XY zero at the new loaction without indivdually touching off each axis.
[12:30:11] <chopper79> Could be for fixtures or just placing the tool bit at a location where I have some stock left to cut.
[12:30:48] <andypugh> It won't work
[12:31:00] <andypugh> (that line I suggested)
[12:31:18] <andypugh> You need _something_ like that, but I have no idea what.
[12:31:27] <chopper79> Andy: I understand
[12:32:27] <chopper79> I was going to use G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 (clear offsets for X,Y & Z axes in coordinate system 1) with an add on button.
[12:32:34] <chopper79> exclude Z0
[12:32:42] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[12:32:49] <Tom_itx> those are my hal files
[12:32:55] <Tom_itx> should be fairly current
[12:33:08] <andypugh> chopper79:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/gui_axis.html#r1_11_4
[12:34:40] <IchGuckLive> chopper79: do you want to set the axis gui to the new G-code zero
[12:35:39] <IchGuckLive> i use a custom M-code to this ,after setting it by button or pendand the g-code is reloaded and then the axis showes the G-code on the right spot
[12:36:22] <IchGuckLive> Mdi command is G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 M100
[12:37:01] <Tom_itx> i added the M100 cmd to my dir if you wanna use IchGuckLive's idea
[12:40:21] <IchGuckLive> in normal use at my very large mashine i work lke that PC is 5+m from mashine ,Pendand at the maschine moving to Zero point Presing button Zero Xy on the pendand Takes 2sec to reload g-code ,moving with pendand away and pressing button to move to XY zero to see if it is done then starting Programm
[12:41:41] <chopper79> Sorry I was on a phone call
[12:42:49] <IchGuckLive> B) therefor i got no phone i realy do not have one
[12:44:54] <chopper79> Well everyone I am going to give this a try...... Thanks to all
[12:45:29] <IchGuckLive> chopper79: use a Different M-Code folder
[12:45:35] <IchGuckLive> name it in ini
[12:45:51] <IchGuckLive> and diont forget to give the M100 chmod+x
[12:46:03] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:46:13] <IchGuckLive> O.O you kow it
[12:46:36] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: to do it right ,you need to do it right
[12:46:58] <andypugh> chopper79: You can just comment out the button creation in /usr/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl But then you will need to chase down all the bits of other files that refer to it.
[12:47:10] <IchGuckLive> im reatching 50k hits on heekscad toutorial DAM
[12:47:24] <andypugh> On the plus side, eveything is interpreted langauges, tcl or python, so no need to recompile.
[12:47:53] <IchGuckLive> Why not simply pyvcp
[12:47:59] <IchGuckLive> or even glade
[12:48:12] <Tom_itx> he doesn't want to keep the original touchoff button
[12:48:24] <andypugh> Well, yes, it would be rather easier to use Gscreen instead of axis, then you can edit the UI with the glade editor.
[12:48:32] <IchGuckLive> ah custtom hacking i like that
[12:48:54] <IchGuckLive> i hacked somany things in axis its hard to stay with
[12:49:48] <IchGuckLive> Reduse G-code Button is the Best
[12:50:09] <IchGuckLive> 30k lines in press button and 8k in the Box
[12:50:27] <IchGuckLive> tribbles the speed
[12:50:52] <IchGuckLive> interpreter G64 Pxx Hack
[12:51:58] <andypugh> Tom_itx:
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0b4c/0900766b80b4c8d8.pdf looks perfect.
[12:52:15] <IchGuckLive> open file is putting g-code to Tmp file so python components can get the full g-code
[12:59:41] <Tom_itx> andypugh you need one that wide?
[12:59:52] <andypugh> 17 IO pins
[12:59:59] <Tom_itx> ok
[13:00:05] <Tom_itx> i've got a bunch of 8 wide
[13:01:19] <Tom_itx> would it be easier to use a couple smaller ones for board layout?
[13:01:24] <Tom_itx> might consider that
[13:01:59] <andypugh> Yeah, if the RS website starts working again
[13:02:56] <Tom_itx> 200k to GREF
[13:03:13] <Tom_itx> .1uf across GREF and GND
[13:03:27] <IchGuckLive> Tantal !
[13:03:39] <Tom_itx> i tied DREF and GREF together
[13:03:49] <Tom_itx> and SREF is the low v side
[13:03:53] <Tom_itx> iirc
[13:04:35] <Tom_itx> ceramic
[13:07:17] <Tom_itx> anything unused i tied Dx to GND thru a 10k
[13:07:26] <Tom_itx> left Sx open
[13:15:25] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: is it a arduino remake
[13:16:09] <andypugh> Is what a what?
[13:16:21] <IchGuckLive> your app to be
[13:16:33] <IchGuckLive> 17IO
[13:16:56] <andypugh> No, just a "breakout" for RPi
[13:18:14] <jdh> I'm supposed to have a BBB delivered today. I don't remember why I ordered it though.
[13:18:23] <ssi> haha
[13:18:32] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: modell A or B
[13:18:38] <archivist> post it on to me then
[13:18:55] <ssi> jdh: work on the hal drivers for it
[13:19:02] <ssi> I'll point you to my gpio driver :)
[13:19:21] <jdh> I'll add that to my list.
[13:19:32] <jdh> sounds too much like my day job though
[13:21:10] <jdh> ssi: self-hosting or cross compiling?
[13:21:22] <IchGuckLive> so its like a full new controller board with PC onboard and linuxcnc on SD
[13:21:23] <ssi> you can build it on the board, if that's what you're asking
[13:21:39] <jdh> so, slow compiles?
[13:21:45] <ssi> it's not too bad
[13:21:52] <ssi> you could cross compile it, but it's not worth it
[13:22:00] <ssi> kernel, yes... took me 8 hours to build a kernel on board
[13:22:00] <jdh> just a module?
[13:22:04] <ssi> linuxcnc builds in a minute or 2
[13:22:13] <ssi> oh it's not even a module... just a hal component
[13:22:23] <jdh> oh, even easier
[13:22:29] <ssi> yeah it's not that bad
[13:23:31] <L84Supper> I purchased a RPi yesterday and I still hate it
[13:23:42] <ssi> RPi blows
[13:23:44] <ssi> BBB is much better
[13:24:16] <L84Supper> I'm not sure where the BBB has export restrictions
[13:24:36] <IchGuckLive> im off By till tomorrow
[13:25:42] <jdh> wy would you hate a pi?
[13:26:01] <ssi> the soc is closed... hard to do anything non-standard on it. not a lot of gpio
[13:26:15] <L84Supper> TigerDirect, Microcenter and Radio Shack all have arduino clones and accessories on sale, just FYI some are 80% off
[13:26:29] <jdh> that's not the point of the Pi is it?
[13:26:39] <ssi> I guess not
[13:26:48] <jdh> L84: are those 3 vendors related?
[13:26:53] <ssi> as far as I can tell, the point of the pi is to teach python to schoolchildren in zimbabwe
[13:27:01] <jdh> yeah, seemed ok for that.
[13:27:04] <ssi> sure
[13:27:06] <ssi> but I don't need that
[13:27:16] <L84Supper> the Pi was social experiment to prove that cheap is more motivational than open
[13:27:28] <jdh> I have one. Learned some python with it.
[13:27:40] <ssi> I have a computer that runs python fine
[13:28:04] <jdh> real computer is a little too big for my app
[13:29:43] <L84Supper> Microcenter is starting to look more like Fry's, an entire aisle of arm boards and components
[13:30:29] <L84Supper> didn't see any BBB, just the Bone
[13:33:26] <L84Supper> http://www.microcenter.com/product/407639/Talon_Add_a_Motor_Package was surprised to see motors and drives of this size there
[13:33:37] <L84Supper> wish they would carry Mesa
[13:35:15] <ssi> wouldn't that be nice
[13:36:53] <L84Supper> Automation Technologies (Keling) only carries Mach supported controllers
[13:38:56] <andypugh> My BBB arrived yesterday, hopefully the HDMI cable will arrive tomorrow.
[13:40:26] <ssi> I ordered an HDMI cable, but stupid usps lost it
[13:40:50] <jdh> is it microhdmi? or mini?
[13:41:05] <jdh> I have one of those somewhere
[13:41:06] <Aero-Tec> can one do elseif in emc?
[13:42:04] <andypugh> Micro
[13:42:13] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Yes
[13:42:13] <PetefromTn> Best part of working in your own shop LOL
[13:42:18] <PetefromTn> http://s150.photobucket.com/user/matospeter/media/Cincinatti%20Arrow%20500%20Retrofit/IMG_20130521_142359_zps91aef7b1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
[13:42:28] <pcw_home> Certainly elseif is doable in a comp
[13:42:41] <pcw_home> and in logic in hal
[13:42:47] <PetefromTn> My kids are out of school and they are sorta camping out in the shop while I work on stuff LOL.
[13:43:00] <Aero-Tec> having trouble running a sub that is a file
[13:43:21] <Aero-Tec> found some mistakes in file sub
[13:43:29] <Aero-Tec> will try to run it now
[13:43:49] <Aero-Tec> is there a way to load a sub file to check it for syntex?
[13:43:52] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: how much kids?
[13:43:55] <L84Supper> schools seem to be getting out earlier all the time
[13:44:10] <PetefromTn> just two... that's enough LOL.
[13:44:10] <Loetmichel> in my last job i had 4 chlidren runnung around my feet
[13:44:13] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: COmment out the sub/endsub and it should run like an ordinary file.
[13:44:18] <Loetmichel> hence the grey hair now ;-)
[13:44:30] <Aero-Tec> when I tried to load just the sub file it complained about no % or file end, M30
[13:44:31] <PetefromTn> I hear ya...
[13:44:47] <Loetmichel> because the workshop was in the cellar of the home of my boss
[13:44:50] <andypugh> That might be why it doesn't work as a dub either..
[13:44:54] <andypugh> (sub)
[13:45:02] <Loetmichel> and he had another company elswehre
[13:45:12] <PetefromTn> that could have been nice I suppose.
[13:45:18] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: So just add an m2 at the end.
[13:45:23] <Aero-Tec> can a sub file have a ending % or M30 and still run with called?
[13:45:31] <pcw_home> subroutines can have elseifs
[13:45:32] <L84Supper> just wait until they reach driving age, you won't see them anymore, just signs of missing food and laundry
[13:45:40] <Loetmichel> so we met ion the morning at his home, he told e waht to mill and buildt and then he goes off to his other comany... and i had the 4 childten and the wife running around my feet ;-)
[13:45:45] <andypugh> Yes. In fact it might require it. After the endsub is where it goes.
[13:45:56] <PetefromTn> I'd love it if I could get this thing moving towards profitability and enjoy their company all the time.
[13:46:10] <andypugh> And, as a plus, they could run the night-shift.
[13:46:23] <PetefromTn> That's a great gig if you can get it. Running someone elses machines and being able to be home with your family at the same time.
[13:46:34] <andypugh> (My dad was using me as a power-feed on his lathe when was 7)
[13:46:53] <PetefromTn> andypugh I'll bet that is a fond memory for you now right...
[13:47:13] <L84Supper> their small hands can get into the detailed parts better
[13:47:39] <PetefromTn> Yeah well I don't have them work for my yet, they are still small. they just like to be near me and I them..
[13:48:46] <PetefromTn> Mostly just play campout and run the batteries out of thier Nintendo DS's..LOL
[13:50:44] <L84Supper> one of mine writes software now since I used to only give him user permissions on his PC's and he would want root or administrator rights
[13:50:46] <jdh> what does this button do????
[13:53:19] <PetefromTn> jdh Yeah I hear ya... I am pretty careful about what they can touch and where they play. The shop is rather roomy for its size and when i am tig welding or something they are either in the house or wearing a mask watching me trying to learn.
[13:56:06] <jdh> you don't need an ATC, you have kids
[13:56:15] <PetefromTn> I am working on a drawing for a custom built pig roasting pit fabrication. It is pretty basic but I figure a drawing tells the story better. So far no CNC milling work for the VMC yet except for that job I did yesterday.
[13:56:50] <PetefromTn> jdh LOL I know right. I honestly don't trust them near the machine at all. Hell I don't trust me half the time...
[13:57:26] <PetefromTn> I think if I ever get this thing to a production phase where the machine is running the same program over and over I might try to teach my wife to run it so I can do other things.
[13:57:34] <PetefromTn> Like tig welding and fabrication work.
[13:57:43] <PetefromTn> I mean when she is not at work.
[13:58:48] <PetefromTn> LinuxCNC ran those parts yesterday pretty nicely tho and I just kept hitting go once I got the bugs worked out. Too bad it was not a larger run it was kinda nice to sit and watch the machine actually running properly for a change.
[14:00:26] <jdh> I thought pig roasting was pretty much a known science
[14:00:59] <jdh> TN pig is much better than NC pig
[14:07:03] <PetefromTn> I dunno, I am possibly gonna build it for a former customer who I built a beer brewing stand for.
[14:07:43] <PetefromTn> He sent me some pictures of one and it looks real stupid simple but we are jazzing this one up just a little bit with a steel dome lid and handles and hinges etc..
[14:08:14] <jdh> vs. split 55gallon drum, steel grate, hinges?
[14:08:15] <PetefromTn> I asked him if I could be invited over when he does the roast and he said sure so I will let ya know how it tastes..
[14:08:43] <PetefromTn> well this thing is 60x36" so a drum won't cut it..
[14:08:58] <PetefromTn> He wants to roast the pig kinda splayed out..
[14:09:35] <PetefromTn> I've already got some rectangular steel here just need some rod and some sheet. but I have not finished the design and given him a price just yet so it may never happen.
[14:12:56] <andypugh> I made a pig-roast once. It used two bicycle wheels in the mechanism. It looked great spinning about in a wobbly way :-)
[14:13:14] <PetefromTn> rotisserie of pig...nice.
[14:14:06] <andypugh> There was a 1/4 hp motor with its shaft pressed against the bicycle tyre, then the sprocket had a chain wrapped round the second wheel (with no tyre) that was bolted to the end of the scaffolding tube.
[14:14:48] <andypugh> The spoke nipples fitted the chain pitxh exactly, which was something of a bonus.
[14:15:08] <PetefromTn> andypugh Sounds like a linucCNC pig roast. Perhaps you needed a servo motor and mesa card?
[14:15:46] <andypugh> I was a student at the time, resources were limited.
[14:18:48] <PetefromTn> hell when are they NOT limited?
[14:25:45] <archivist> when you win the lottery
[14:26:21] <archivist> which will not happen here, cannot afford the lottery ticket
[14:26:28] <PetefromTn> meh never played the lottery..
[14:27:39] <PetefromTn> altho I think I read someone just won like 685 million dollars in powerball....lucky
[14:48:40] <ssi> I need to cut another ballnut mount
[14:48:52] <ssi> awshit I have to replace my bandsaw blade before I can use it :(
[14:49:49] <PetefromTn> yeah me too...smoked my last one on some stainless and don't have the cash for a new one...sigh
[14:52:08] <PetefromTn> Got sawzall?
[14:56:16] <jdh> I bought a powerball ticket... didn't win.
[14:57:13] <PetefromTn> sorry dude, I was rootin' for ya. LOL
[15:08:39] <jdh> I bought one a few years ago also... same thing.
[15:10:37] <PetefromTn> LOL yeah consistency is the key I guess with that. My Grandparents played most of their life and never won more than a couple hundred or so.
[15:11:14] <PetefromTn> My uncle took his bride to Las vegas to get married, he played some game there and won a brand new Caddilac and drove it home...Ya just never know I guess.
[15:22:18] <ssi> PetefromTn: I have spare blades on hand
[15:22:38] <jdh> me too!
[15:23:52] <ssi> ^5
[15:24:23] <jdh> mine fit my cheapass HF 4x6 though, so it might not be quite the same.
[15:24:37] <ssi> yea these are 93" blades for my grizzly 7x12
[15:24:43] <ssi> I bought two spare blades when I bought the bandsaw
[15:24:47] <ssi> present me is pleased with past me
[15:25:14] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iUK9VrBGsac
[15:25:15] <Tecan> (iUK9VrBGsac) "John Merritt, Wood Carver" by "Rick Leone" is "Education" - Length: 0:06:39
[15:25:35] <jdh> I bought some bimetal blades with mine since I heard the stock blade sucked, but I'm still using it.
[15:28:48] <PetefromTn> Stock blades do suck and I use the ones my welding gas supplier makes. They KICK butt.. I just don't have anymore I usually buy at least two at a time. Forgot I was on the last one DOH!.. Oh well gotta go pickup some groceries. Be back soon. Cya.
[15:36:21] <ssi> I forgot what a dickpain linux can be :P
[15:38:14] <jdh> most likely caused by improper technique
[15:47:59] <ssi> yeah sorry, I never really perfected the technique of installing 3d video drivers in linux
[15:48:07] <ssi> I mean I was pretty good at it in 1999 with voodoo2s and shit
[15:48:11] <ssi> but I sorta let those skills lapse
[15:48:26] <jdh> heh, I had one of those. Might still have it somewhere
[15:48:33] <jdh> and a gravis ultrasound
[16:21:35] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:03:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what's the application for those chips?
[17:03:57] <andypugh> protecting RPi outputs from 5V signals.
[17:04:05] <andypugh> (and inputs)
[17:04:22] <andypugh> Not 5V safe, apparently.
[17:24:34] <Tom_itx> what are RPi outputs?
[17:24:39] <Tom_itx> not familiar with that
[17:26:27] <Tom_itx> you gonna do the board layout or want a hand?
[17:27:03] <andypugh> RPi = Rasbperry Pi
[17:27:08] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:27:22] <Tom_itx> i didn't jump on that bandwagon
[17:27:31] <andypugh> I haven't really.
[17:27:46] <andypugh> But I am curious to see what, if anything, they are good for
[17:27:58] <Tom_itx> i got a stm32f4 board though
[17:28:02] <Tom_itx> haven't done much with it
[17:28:43] <Tom_itx> what's that board ppl are trying to port lcnc to?
[17:28:56] <andypugh> I have a Pi, A beaglebone black, one of those NC189 Vortex things (free sample :-) and will be getting a UDOO when they come out.
[17:29:15] <Tom_itx> yeah i think i got the stm32f4 free as well
[17:30:55] <andypugh> NC-Box is rather cute, but they seemed to miss the fact that something better than a parport would be better than a parport. They make other boards with hardware PWMs and such.
http://www.roboard.com/ncbox-189.html
[17:34:33] <Tom_itx> i don't even think i still have the tool chain installed for mine
[17:37:55] <Tom_itx> has anybody tried one of those with linuxcnc yet?
[17:41:33] <ssi> I'm running it on the beaglebone black
[17:41:39] <ssi> just rudimentary IO so far, but it's coming along
[17:44:14] <L84Supper> http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/05/21/1958237/3-d-printable-food-gets-funding-from-nasa lets see you try to machine that :)
[17:49:43] <PCW> Yuck
[18:05:22] <andypugh> Tom_itx: One of which?
[18:05:38] <andypugh> I have run LinuxCNC on both the Pi and the NC189
[18:05:59] <andypugh> (In neither case did i do the legwork to make it possible)
[18:38:26] <GammaX-Shop> afternoon all!
[19:05:36] <GammaX-Shop> wow its dead in here
[19:12:48] <gene78> all busy
[19:13:05] <andypugh> Trying to persuade the RS website to take my order.
[19:13:26] <Tom_itx> andypugh, mouser isn't cheaper?
[19:13:34] <andypugh> Not normally.
[19:13:40] <Tom_itx> usually is here
[19:13:44] <Tom_itx> even over dk
[19:14:00] <andypugh> Sometimes, but they charge more for delivery typically.
[19:14:33] <andypugh> Mouser were much cheaper for servo connectors.
[19:15:06] <Tom_itx> what type?
[19:15:11] <andypugh> M23
[19:15:31] <andypugh> They still cost me twice as much as the servos themselves did.
[19:15:36] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:15:58] <Tom_itx> are you gettin those from Califor n i a?
[19:16:06] <Tom_itx> servos
[19:16:20] <andypugh> ?
[19:16:32] <Tom_itx> someone here posted them
[19:16:39] <Tom_itx> bunch of cheap servos i thought
[19:16:46] <andypugh> Ah, yes, no. I forgot about those.
[19:17:13] <Tom_itx> if i had something to put them on i would
[19:17:43] <andypugh> Yes, I have the same thing, really. I already have a number of bargain servos with no homes. :-)
[19:18:52] <Tom_itx> jt should be hittin Charlotte about now i'd think
[19:19:13] <Tom_itx> it's 19hrs from here and he's a state or two closer
[19:27:51] <andypugh> I just checked my servos. There is a huge 1kW one, 5000rm, 1.5Nm. And a small 0.63kW one, 5000rpm, 2.5Nm. The big boy is about 10x the weight. The little one has a brake taking up a good part of the volume. Something isn't quite adding up.
[19:28:28] <andypugh> I never managed to figure out the encoder on the little one, either.
[19:29:01] <Tom_itx> not your standard AB Y
[19:29:35] <andypugh> No
[19:29:50] <Tom_itx> what voltage out?
[19:31:03] <andypugh> No idea
[19:31:24] <andypugh> This is the big one, by the way. I paid £10 for mine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reliance-1326AB-B410G-21-Servo-Motor-460V-WOW-/320730761315
[19:33:01] <andypugh> Ah! big boy is a resolver.
[19:33:28] <andypugh> Which is fine by me, I like resolvers.
[19:33:44] <PetefromTn> I got one if you want to buy it LOL...
[19:35:38] <andypugh> I just bought this on eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261214253903 which should sort out the little motor mystery encoder problem :-)
[19:38:19] <andypugh> The little motor is one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170973045161
[19:38:43] <andypugh> But the version with a brake. Which I don't need.
[19:40:26] <FinboySlick> What do you drive it with?
[19:41:42] <andypugh> Nothing at the moment.
[19:42:00] <andypugh> i can't figure out the encoder
[19:42:26] <FinboySlick> I'd assume one would need fairly complicated electronics to drive those.
[19:42:27] <Tom_itx> do you have a scope to hook to it?
[19:44:00] <FinboySlick> Bit of CNC Porn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ck3kktHRM
[19:44:01] <Tecan> (Q9ck3kktHRM) "Chiron Mill Series" by "engtechgroup" is "Tech" - Length: 0:07:34
[19:44:29] <FinboySlick> They move so smooth... I wonder if they use linear motors.
[19:46:33] <PetefromTn> Good lord I can think of about a million ways to crash the hell out of that baby...LOL
[19:46:55] <andypugh> Tom_itx:
http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/in/tl-in001_-en-p.pdf says that it is a battery-backed absolute encoder. (option B),
[19:47:05] <FinboySlick> 3:47 is the impressive bit to me.
[19:47:18] <FinboySlick> So incredibly fast.
[19:48:08] <FinboySlick> The mill's like inertia? What's that?
[19:49:27] <FinboySlick> Fancy toolchanger at 6:00 too.
[19:50:09] <PetefromTn> some MOTHER trunnions too..
[19:51:13] <FinboySlick> For anyone feeling generous, I'll take any one of those for my birthday.
[19:51:25] <PetefromTn> dear santa....LOL
[19:52:08] <PetefromTn> That toolchanger is the same one basically used on some of the retrofitted Chiron machines you see on youtube. Pretty sweet design.
[19:52:11] <Tom_itx> forgings are a pita
[19:53:38] <Tom_itx> are those hydraulic clamps they're using too?
[19:53:40] <PetefromTn> would'nt mind finding some work machining castings or forgings....for the right pay.
[19:54:03] <skunkworks> dirty dirty work :)
[19:54:26] <skunkworks> I think we are still cleaning cast iron shavings out of the k&t
[19:54:44] <andypugh> Forgings should be clean enough.
[19:55:48] <andypugh> Page 13 of that manual says that I have no chance of mking that encoder work for me :-)
[19:56:18] <FinboySlick> andypugh: It's french? ;)
[19:56:25] <Tom_itx> no
[19:56:27] <PetefromTn> yeah but it pays cash money right..
[19:56:39] <andypugh> FinboySlick: You need pretty complicated software to run brushless motors. But we have pretty complicated software :-)
[19:57:38] <andypugh> I already run brushless motors + resolvers on my milling machine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haO5ZJq-Y3c
[19:57:39] <Tecan> (haO5ZJq-Y3c) "That's better" by "andy pugh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:18
[19:57:53] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Hehe... That was a reference to french productivity though, not their complexity.
[19:58:33] <andypugh> You mean those French guys who work about half the hours of their US colleagues, for the same output?
[19:59:14] <PetefromTn> Hey I resemble that remark LOL
[19:59:27] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Hey, I'm from Quebec, I'm allowed to pick on the French.
[19:59:48] <PetefromTn> Sorry did you say you were french?
[20:00:09] <andypugh> I work for a US company, on a French engine.
[20:00:46] <Tom_itx> sounds catestropic
[20:01:01] <FinboySlick> Actually, they have pretty good engineering.
[20:01:08] <PetefromTn> or catastrophic..
[20:01:10] <FinboySlick> But they suffer from unionitis.
[20:01:33] <andypugh> The French seem to only be there long enough to get their jobs done, but they do. My US colleagues seem infected with a bad case of "presenteeism". Ie, they put in really long hours, even when they have nothing to do, because it is expected.
[20:02:02] <PetefromTn> I'm in a union, yeah, it's me, and uhh...ME!
[20:02:09] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those are union
[20:02:15] <Tom_itx> non union get it done
[20:02:19] <PetefromTn> It's also my favorite charity..
[20:03:05] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I am talking salried here, not hourly-paid.
[20:03:06] <Tom_itx> give our govt to self employed personel and we would show a profit in a few years time
[20:03:43] <Tom_itx> there are union engineers etc as well
[20:04:05] <andypugh> Yes, but the Union doesn't explain the hours they attend for.
[20:04:13] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Around here, they're secret guilds that would make the Free Masons blush.
[20:04:51] <FinboySlick> Complete with toga seremony with the anvil and the ring and the secret codewords.
[20:04:55] <FinboySlick> ceremony
[20:05:34] <FinboySlick> Stewards of the common people and the secret sciences and blah blah...
[20:07:20] <Aero-Tec> going nuts here
[20:07:48] <Aero-Tec> trying to get a sub to work when it calls a file based sub
[20:07:59] <Aero-Tec> can not fine file
[20:08:03] <Aero-Tec> error
[20:09:06] <Aero-Tec> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/Stans-subs
[20:09:12] <Aero-Tec> in INI file
[20:09:20] <Aero-Tec> and subs are in that dir
[20:09:44] <Aero-Tec> should there be a ending / ?
[20:10:06] <Tom_itx> chmod?
[20:10:20] <Aero-Tec> o<cut_circle_rotory_table> call [#<tooldia>][#<FeedRateAaxis>]
[20:10:25] <Aero-Tec> call to sub
[20:10:36] <Aero-Tec> chmod?
[20:10:42] <Tom_itx> does it see the file?
[20:10:43] <Aero-Tec> not sure what you mean
[20:10:56] <Aero-Tec> seems not
[20:11:03] <Aero-Tec> not sure why
[20:11:14] <Tom_itx> does it have read rights?
[20:11:19] <Aero-Tec> set permisions to 777
[20:12:04] <Aero-Tec> least it should be, not sure using the GUI
[20:12:22] <Aero-Tec> not sure how to check it
[20:12:59] <Aero-Tec> things look right in the GUI
[20:14:03] <Aero-Tec> full sub call
[20:14:06] <Aero-Tec> o<cut_circle_rotory_table> call [#<tooldia>][#<FeedRateAaxis>][#<inside>][#<rpm>][#<feedrate>][#<inc-cutDepth>][#<fCutDepth>][#<zsafe>][#<zstart>][#<z-man-auto>][#<cen-x>][#<cen-y>][#<DiaCircle>][#<RadCircle>][#<StartDeg>][#<NumberOfDeg>]
[20:14:18] <Aero-Tec> is that to long for a sub call?
[20:14:45] <Aero-Tec> loaded the sub as a program and no errors
[20:15:04] <Aero-Tec> there were some but I fixed them
[20:15:24] <Aero-Tec> AFAIK
[20:19:37] <Tom_itx> ther is 1 cap in the path is that correct?
[20:20:33] <Aero-Tec> would that screw things up?
[20:20:42] <Aero-Tec> looks like your correct
[20:21:07] <pcw_home> yep unix is case sensitive
[20:21:20] <Aero-Tec> cool
[20:21:25] <Aero-Tec> thanks a mill
[20:21:45] <Aero-Tec> I was checking over and over and every thing looked right
[20:23:26] <pcw_home> one way to check is to copy/paste the subroutine path into a terminal
[20:23:28] <pcw_home> so you type:
[20:23:30] <pcw_home> ls subroutinepath/yoursubname
[20:23:59] <pcw_home> or cat subroutinepath/yoursubname
[20:25:37] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Everything that passes through G-code ends up lower-case.
[20:26:48] <andypugh> Also, it may be that LinuxCNC can spell "rotary" better than you can :-)
[20:27:31] <Aero-Tec> so if the dir has upper case, the Gcode would convert it all to lower case then they would not match, is that right?
[20:27:40] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:27:50] <Aero-Tec> I suck at spelling
[20:28:01] * Tom_itx steals Aero-Tec's caps key and throws it away
[20:28:46] <Aero-Tec> I write is so I can read it
[20:28:47] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Yes. (I have seen this before)
[20:29:09] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the help
[20:29:15] <Aero-Tec> new to linux
[20:29:29] <Aero-Tec> not that I am a windows fan
[20:29:30] <andypugh> I think, to confuse matters, it isn't a problem using MDI_COMMAND
[20:29:55] <Aero-Tec> hate it but I had to use it so did not get into linux like I would have liked
[20:29:57] <andypugh> This is the connector that my £10 servo motor needs two of:
http://www.alvatek.com/pages/part_detailx.php?part=SP02QRE1801P147#
[20:32:37] <Tom_itx> maybe they'll send you a couple samples
[20:33:03] <pcw_home> Thats optimism for you
[20:33:13] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:33:18] <PetefromTn> Hey gru!!
[20:38:10] <tjb1> anyone here do iRacing?
[20:38:29] <Aero-Tec> still will not work
[20:38:41] <Aero-Tec> can not open file is the error
[20:39:00] <Aero-Tec> the dir was small S
[20:39:09] <andypugh> Looks to be a specific connector only used on those motors!
[20:39:10] <andypugh> http://www.sineco.com/1326AB-Motor-Connector-Kits-with-Backshells_ep_242.html
[20:39:24] <Tom_itx> figures
[20:40:10] <Aero-Tec> not sure if I restarted EMC
[20:40:14] <Aero-Tec> will try that
[20:41:48] <andypugh> And, to make it even more fun, the Allen Bradley name for the cable assembly is 1394.
[20:43:34] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Some good hints here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SubProgramFiles
[20:44:44] <Aero-Tec> no go, restart did nothing
[20:47:45] <Aero-Tec> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs
[20:47:58] <Aero-Tec> is that the problem?
[20:48:11] <Aero-Tec> should I move it to
[20:48:34] <Aero-Tec> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/Stans-subs
[20:48:35] <Aero-Tec> ?
[20:49:01] <Aero-Tec> if so how do I add the path to what is there all ready?
[20:49:01] <BJfreeman> has anyone ported to debian 7 A13
[20:49:34] <Aero-Tec> oops
[20:49:43] <Aero-Tec> copy and past did not work
[20:50:22] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files
[20:50:42] <Connor> PetefromTn: Any progress today?
[20:51:07] <Tom_itx> : separates paths
[20:52:12] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/Stans-subs
[20:52:14] <Aero-Tec> ?
[20:52:30] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files,/home/stan/emc2/nc_files/Stans-subs
[20:52:31] <Aero-Tec> ?
[20:52:42] <PetefromTn> Connor Well I finished deburring those parts and was supposed to get them picked up and paid but alas tomorrow it seems LOL.,
[20:52:46] <PetefromTn> You?
[20:52:48] <Tom_itx> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files:/home/stan/emc2/nc_files/Stans-subs
[20:53:17] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[20:53:20] <Aero-Tec> will try this
[20:53:20] <Connor> PetefromTn: Just normal work stuff.. You get a chance to look around for some steel that might work as a lift plate for my PDB?
[20:53:48] <PetefromTn> It's been kinda thundering and lightening for awhile now so I would probably not be running the machine even if I had something to make on it.
[20:54:30] <Aero-Tec> same here
[20:54:51] <Aero-Tec> been storming all day
[20:54:52] <PetefromTn> Connor No I am sorry I forgot. Been kinda worried about my wife. She found a lump in her breast yesterday and is going in for a test tomorrow.
[20:55:11] <Connor> PetefromTn: Oh crap. That sucks.
[20:55:27] <Connor> I'll keep her in my thoughts.
[20:55:28] <Aero-Tec> hope it turns out well for her
[20:55:36] <PetefromTn> Yeah we are praying for good news and would appreciate anyone else doing the same.
[20:55:45] <Aero-Tec> scary thing to deal with
[20:56:14] <Connor> I probably should get 1 or two 4 flute end mills for steel work.. I just have no idea what to get..
[20:56:18] <PetefromTn> Well as my father used to say, not going to worry until there is something to worry about.
[20:56:58] <PetefromTn> Maritool has some nice coated multi flutes for steel.
[20:59:06] <plasticman> Anyone know of anything opensource that you can make solids or surfaces in? I am used to masterscam, but want to find something that is "ok" that I can run from linux.
[21:02:20] <BJfreeman> plasticman look at
http://www.povray.org/download/linux.php
[21:02:38] <plasticman> k, thanks
[21:06:44] <PetefromTn> Connor Whatdya say the dimensions were on that thing?
[21:06:56] <Connor> 4.5" x 2.5" x .5"
[21:07:11] <PetefromTn> Lemme look, dacia is asleep now.
[21:07:28] <Aero-Tec> not sure whats wrong
[21:07:33] <Aero-Tec> still will not work
[21:07:45] <Aero-Tec> even moved the file to the
[21:08:26] <Aero-Tec> ~/home/stan/emc2/nc_files
[21:08:35] <Aero-Tec> dir and still will not load
[21:08:50] <Aero-Tec> why can it not find the file?
[21:08:52] <Tom_itx> chmod?
[21:09:02] <Aero-Tec> am I editing the wrong INI?
[21:09:09] <Aero-Tec> looks good
[21:09:16] <Aero-Tec> looks to be 777
[21:09:39] <Aero-Tec> the file was made in win, would that screw things up?
[21:10:07] <Aero-Tec> how whould I convert it to 100% linux?
[21:10:29] <Aero-Tec> or is that even a problem
[21:10:43] <Aero-Tec> going nuts here
[21:10:53] <Aero-Tec> been working on this all day
[21:11:25] <jdh> see if you have dos2unix installed
[21:11:47] <Aero-Tec> how?
[21:11:57] <jdh> type 'dos2unix' and see if anything happens
[21:12:13] <Aero-Tec> I have the live EMC cd installed
[21:12:29] <Aero-Tec> and then up graded to linuxcnc
[21:12:53] <cpresser> if the file is 777, the directory where it is in might not be accessible
[21:13:11] <cpresser> execute 'su user' and see if you can read the file
[21:13:22] <Aero-Tec> thought 777 let every one in to the file
[21:13:47] <cpresser> except people who are not allowed into that directory :)
[21:14:01] <Aero-Tec> the dir is 777 as well
[21:14:19] <Aero-Tec> will check other dirs to see if they are 777
[21:14:37] <Aero-Tec> thought they were, but will check
[21:15:01] <Aero-Tec> my win box can see and read it as well as write it
[21:15:25] <Aero-Tec> mined you the file was created in win
[21:15:25] <cpresser> i recommend not to use 777; better add a user/group and set usefull permissions
[21:16:12] <Aero-Tec> the win bao set user to nobody, if mem servers me right
[21:16:20] <Aero-Tec> win box
[21:16:34] <PetefromTn> Connor Okay man yeah I got several pieces that should work. A bunch of 1" thick pieces that are much larger than that and a couple 3/4 pieces that are smaller but large enough. Only problem is my bandsaw blade is smoked right now. I need to get another one. Then I can cut them to the size you need.
[21:19:11] <Connor> ok
[21:22:12] <PetefromTn> Might be able to pickup a new blade towards the end of the week.
[21:34:34] <Aero-Tec> ok I converted it to unix
[21:34:41] <Aero-Tec> still will not work
[21:35:31] <Aero-Tec> how can I make sure linuxcnc is uning the dir I think it is?
[21:35:42] <Aero-Tec> using
[21:35:59] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: First thing that comes to mind would be strace... But that may be a bit overkill.
[21:36:37] <jdh> heh
[21:37:00] <Aero-Tec> what /nc_files file location does linuxcnc look at?
[21:37:21] <Aero-Tec> it started with EMC and was upgraded to linuxcnc
[21:37:41] <Aero-Tec> maybe I messed up in the conversion
[21:37:47] <Aero-Tec> or something
[21:37:59] <Aero-Tec> not sure
[21:38:35] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: I doubt it's the case, though I'm not very experienced with calling subs.
[21:38:45] <Aero-Tec> never heard of strace
[21:38:56] <jdh> strace knows all
[21:39:21] <jdh> strace linuxcnc > trace.out
[21:39:38] <Aero-Tec> is that like google is god?
[21:39:48] <jdh> no, google is just a search engine
[21:40:00] <Aero-Tec> but with google you get a answer, unlike god
[21:40:14] <Aero-Tec> I know
[21:40:15] <jdh> don't you blaspheme!
[21:40:47] <Aero-Tec> I have never got a answer from god, but have got tons from google
[21:41:10] <Tom_itx> right or wrong google answers
[21:41:12] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: But Jesus was carrying you, that's why there were only one set of footsteps.
[21:41:24] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:41:32] <jdh> "because we go single-file to confuse the enemy scouts"
[21:41:56] <Aero-Tec> was raised in the church so I know what about what you have said
[21:42:32] <jdh> show us on the doll where he touched you.
[21:42:50] <Aero-Tec> Tom_itx both, more wrong than right ones for sure, but still I got answers
[21:42:59] <Aero-Tec> lol
[21:43:21] <pcw_home> where is the subroutine file now?
[21:44:36] <Aero-Tec> =/home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs
[21:45:09] <Aero-Tec> copied it to /home/stan/emc2/nc_files, but that did not work ether
[21:45:24] <Aero-Tec> so removed it from there
[21:45:51] <FinboySlick> I have a feeling your issue is something very trivial and silly but we just can't see it.
[21:45:55] <Aero-Tec> there are no files located at /home/stan/emc2/nc_files
[21:46:22] <pcw_home> so if you type cat /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs/cut_circle_rotory_table
[21:46:24] <pcw_home> does it list your file?
[21:46:24] <FinboySlick> do you see the content of the file when you type: cat /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/yourfile.nc
[21:46:41] <Aero-Tec> there is another nc_files location that has a whack of files
[21:46:45] <pcw_home> is the .nc assumed
[21:46:50] <pcw_home> ?
[21:47:13] <Aero-Tec> nc?
[21:47:19] <Aero-Tec> .ngc
[21:47:29] <Aero-Tec> should it be nc?
[21:48:00] <Aero-Tec> thought emc used ngc
[21:48:15] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: I was just guessing. Whatever your file is named.
[21:48:23] <FinboySlick> Aero-Tec: The idea is to see if you have the right path.
[21:48:31] <pcw_home> so what is your subroutine named
[21:49:21] <Aero-Tec> cut_circle_rotory_table.ngc
[21:49:32] <jdh> misspelled?
[21:49:39] <Aero-Tec> I know
[21:49:52] <Aero-Tec> but same evey where
[21:50:09] <Aero-Tec> the call has same spelling
[21:50:12] <pcw_home> so does
[21:50:14] <pcw_home> cat /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs/cut_circle_rotory_table.ngc
[21:50:16] <pcw_home> list your file?
[21:50:33] <Aero-Tec> will find out
[21:53:30] <Tom_itx> umm
[21:53:45] <Tom_itx> did you change emc2 to linuxcnc in your paths or leave it?
[21:54:50] <atom1> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib:/home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/utilitysubs
[21:54:54] <atom1> USER_M_PATH = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/mfiles:/home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/
[21:54:58] <Aero-Tec> pcw_home: yes it did list my sub, showed the text inside of it
[21:55:00] <Tom_itx> those are mine
[21:55:51] <pcw_home> ok cat you cut/paste your subroutine path here again
[21:56:05] <atom1> PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .txt XYZ Post Processor
[21:56:20] <atom1> add that for different file extensions beside .ngc
[21:56:54] <pcw_home> SUBROUTINE_PATH?
[21:57:16] <Aero-Tec> it is /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs/cut_circle_rotory_table.ngc
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> [FILTER]
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .png,.gif,.jpg Greyscale Depth Image
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .py Python Script
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> png = image-to-gcode
[21:58:32] <Aero-Tec> gif = image-to-gcode
[21:58:33] <Aero-Tec> jpg = image-to-gcode
[21:58:33] <Aero-Tec> py = python
[21:58:59] <pcw_home> it shouldn't include a file name
[21:59:20] <Aero-Tec> atom1: you want me to add PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .txt XYZ Post Processor ?
[21:59:31] <atom1> i use .txt on my gcode
[21:59:35] <atom1> you may not
[22:00:00] <pcw_home> can you copy paste the SUBROUTINE_PATH part of your ini file here?
[22:00:01] <Aero-Tec> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files:/home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs
[22:00:02] <Aero-Tec> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/stan/emc2/nc_files/stans-subs
[22:00:23] <gammax-Laptop1> would you guys recomend something diff than 1018 for a tool holder on a lathe?
[22:00:37] <atom1> do you need a '/' on the end?
[22:00:56] <pcw_home> I dont think so
[22:00:58] <Aero-Tec> the sample I looked at did not have that
[22:01:04] <Aero-Tec> samples
[22:01:53] <Aero-Tec> could there be a error in the file that is stopping it from loading?
[22:02:12] <atom1> are those in [RS274NGC] ?
[22:02:53] <atom1> try a very simple sub until you get it working
[22:02:54] <Aero-Tec> [RS274NGC]
[22:02:54] <Aero-Tec> PARAMETER_FILE = emc.var
[22:02:59] <Aero-Tec> display
[22:03:19] <Aero-Tec> in the display section
[22:04:07] <atom1> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/
[22:04:23] <atom1> that is the only path in my [DISPLAY] section
[22:05:58] <Aero-Tec> what if the file was a link to anouther dir?
[22:06:11] <Aero-Tec> would that mess things up?
[22:06:33] <atom1> couldn't tell you
[22:06:39] <Aero-Tec> it does not have the link symble
[22:07:22] <Aero-Tec> I did a drag and drop, I think that make a link and not a copy
[22:07:33] <Aero-Tec> will try that
[22:10:32] <Aero-Tec> ok, it looks like that is not the case
[22:10:40] <Aero-Tec> one ends in a %
[22:10:49] <Aero-Tec> the other one does not
[22:11:00] <Aero-Tec> so it copied not linked
[22:12:59] <Aero-Tec> checked and it was converted to unix
[22:13:33] <Aero-Tec> is there some other INI or config file I should look at?
[22:14:20] <pcw_home> are you sure you are using the ini file you think you are?
[22:14:49] <Aero-Tec> I have gone through it manualy and it looks to be the right one
[22:14:57] <Aero-Tec> but how can I tell for sure?
[22:15:53] <Aero-Tec> can double check, mind you I have checked it several times before as well
[22:16:07] <pcw_home> launch linuxcnc from the command line in the directory your ini file is in
[22:16:18] <Aero-Tec> is there some way to find out in linuxcnc?
[22:16:28] <pcw_home> linuxcnc foobar.ini
[22:23:04] <Aero-Tec> got warnings ini file contained dos line endings
[22:24:38] <pcw_home> well perhaps that should be fixed for cleanliness and godliness
[22:25:58] <Aero-Tec> just did, I hope
[22:26:12] <Aero-Tec> will see if that fixes problem
[22:29:11] <Aero-Tec> still not working
[22:29:19] <Aero-Tec> dos problem fixed
[22:29:31] <Aero-Tec> still can not find file
[22:29:41] <Aero-Tec> does it need to be exe?
[22:29:49] <Aero-Tec> never checked that
[22:30:11] <Aero-Tec> thought it was a text file ran inside of linuxcnc
[22:30:20] <Aero-Tec> so no exe needed
[22:30:53] <Aero-Tec> I ran it from the terminal so I know I got the right INI file
[22:31:19] <Aero-Tec> also reworked the hal file for dos just in case
[22:33:17] <Aero-Tec> just did a dos conversion to the Gcode file
[22:33:28] <Aero-Tec> the calling file to see if that fixes it
[22:35:26] <Aero-Tec> no go
[22:47:07] <Aero-Tec> did a very simple gcode and sub
[22:47:12] <Aero-Tec> still will not work
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> %
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> (.NC)
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> ( MACH 3 - ENGLISH)
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> (WED. 03/26/2008 04:17PM)
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> ( T1 CENTER DRILL , DIAMETER = .5 , LENGTH = 5.)
[22:47:38] <Aero-Tec> G0 G20 G49 G40 G17 G80 G90
[22:47:39] <Aero-Tec> G90G0
[22:47:39] <Aero-Tec> o<testsub> call
[22:47:40] <Aero-Tec> G90G0
[22:47:40] <Aero-Tec> M30
[22:47:41] <Aero-Tec> %
[22:47:48] <Aero-Tec> and the sub is
[22:48:05] <Aero-Tec> o<testsub> sub
[22:48:06] <Aero-Tec> o<testsub> endsub
[22:48:35] <Tom_itx> what is the sub called?
[22:49:42] <Aero-Tec> testsub.ngc
[23:14:37] <Aero-Tec> ok, some how the owner of the sub files was changed
[23:14:41] <Aero-Tec> fixed that
[23:14:51] <Aero-Tec> still will not work
[23:15:36] <Aero-Tec> can the path be to long for it to work?
[23:15:54] <Aero-Tec> is there a path length limit in linux?
[23:17:10] <Aero-Tec> not sure why this file sub thing is not working
[23:18:08] <Aero-Tec> works on my lathe, so why not the mill?
[23:40:16] <Aero-Tec> tried more things and still not working
[23:41:04] <Aero-Tec> even renamed the old testsub file and made a new one in linux
[23:41:35] <Aero-Tec> one thing is owner is stan Stan
[23:41:50] <Aero-Tec> not sure why, lathe is just stan
[23:42:16] <Aero-Tec> have looked for other things different from lathe to mill
[23:42:41] <Aero-Tec> have not found anything yet, other then the stan thing
[23:43:56] <Aero-Tec> tried sudo chown
