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[01:09:41] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:14:52] <gammax-Laptop1> hola
[02:00:59] <IchGuckLive> morning folks from cold Germany
[02:01:41] <IchGuckLive> is it posible to reload the G-code after setting G10 L20 from a pyvcp button on Auto state
[02:07:13] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:10:32] <IchGuckLive> B)
[02:11:25] <DJ9DJ> hi IchGuckLive and syyl
[02:27:09] <IchGuckLive> folks is it posible to do a m code with axis-remote --reload
[02:27:26] <IchGuckLive> by a m100.sh
[02:27:33] <IchGuckLive> for example
[02:49:26] <IchGuckLive> done 1
[02:49:33] <IchGuckLive> nice works
[02:50:04] <IchGuckLive> linuxcnc is fabouless a shame on mach
[02:50:11] <IchGuckLive> by
[04:57:47] <DJ9DJ> re
[05:41:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAND-DEEP-THROAT-WOOD-WORKING-BAR-GLUE-PIPE-CLAMP-TOOL-/290343210090?pt=Clamps_Vises&hash=item4399cdcc6a
[05:41:10] <r00t4rd3d> hell of a title
[05:41:51] <ssi> lul
[05:44:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_wood_router_project_log/177812-first_t-slot_computer-numeric-control_router-2.html
[05:44:21] <r00t4rd3d> last comment
[05:44:55] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop should like that one also
[05:46:59] <jthornton> lol
[05:53:19] <ssi> I wonder how much it cost that guy to build that machine
[05:53:33] <ssi> considering he had all the flat parts laser cut, and other parts done by a machine shop
[05:53:52] <ssi> ...and had to buy his control software because he can't figure out how to use USB
[05:55:26] <jthornton> that's pretty bad when you can plug in a USB
[05:55:39] <ssi> he's right though, Mach3 is in a different class
[05:55:48] <archivist> gutter class
[06:01:38] <jthornton> it has to be good if you pay for it and pay for help and pay for and pay for
[06:05:29] <r00t4rd3d> if you dont have any linux experience i imagine it can be intimidating.
[06:07:55] <archivist> so can widdows 8 :)
[06:10:10] <jthornton> funny I never could get a linux flavor to install in a computer and I tried many times
[06:10:22] <jthornton> when the LiveCD came out it was a breeze
[06:12:12] <archivist> some of us started linux earlier :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
[06:12:37] <archivist> took me ages to get the cdrom driver working
[06:13:14] <archivist> wrote a howto and put it on compuserve for that bit
[06:17:15] <jthornton> I really hated windows 3.1 and preferred DOS 6.22
[06:18:00] <archivist> I used 3.11 a lot
[08:02:51] <cradek> archivist:
http://timeguy.com/cradek/01188356148
[08:03:49] <cradek> archivist: yes the non-scsi cds were terrible in those pre-ide days
[08:03:50] <jdh> CD? you had a CD install?
[08:04:11] <cradek> yes yggdrasil LGX came on a cd
[08:04:42] <jdh> I downloaded 20-30 SLS floppies on a modem
[08:05:01] <jdh> still have a set somewhere
[08:05:06] <cradek> it contained all the sources and wasn't even full
[08:05:51] <cradek> I later used floppies too, but that cd was my first linux
[08:06:32] <jdh> I don't think there were cd drives when I got mine. 93ish? I didn't have one
[08:06:33] <cradek> I had to use two hard disks, one MFM, one ESDI
[08:07:12] <cradek> they were pretty new but sure did exist then
[08:11:03] <cradek> linux driver for cdu535 announced on usenet 3/1/93
[08:11:40] <jdh> I had a cdu-something on a sound card later
[08:12:29] <cradek> 20 years...
[08:12:36] <archivist> I still have the yggdrasil CD somewhere :)
[08:12:45] <jdh> wow... I should feel old.
[08:13:14] <archivist> I must admit to the Minix book and floppies too
[08:13:20] <cradek> yep me too, I've sent images to some folks who saw my blog posts and were interested
[08:14:27] <cradek> I never had the book! I still have an AT with minix on it though. (got it later, wasn't mine back in the day)
[08:14:40] <archivist> I got rapidly bore with the floppies, I think I only booted minix once
[08:14:45] <archivist> bored
[08:16:42] <archivist> day job at the time is what got me interested, admin on an Altos 1000 with ATT unix
[08:18:41] <cradek> I was not quite yet in the workforce...
[08:18:54] <zewan> hi all
[08:18:54] <archivist> hehe kidz
[08:19:27] <cpresser> cradek: would you create an iso-image of that disk? i still have an old i386 with scsi-cdrom which i would like to try to boot
[08:21:46] <archivist> seems there are some on the net already
http://www.linux.com/community/forums/installation/yggdrasil-1
[08:24:37] <cradek> I have it somewhere if you can't find it elsewhere
[08:24:56] <cradek> don't forget the boot floppy
[08:25:04] <cpresser> all the files i could google are source-archives
[08:25:59] <cpresser> ill download one and make sure :)
[08:29:30] <archivist> I have the plug and play linux CD here dated november 1994
[08:33:48] <archivist> it being the walnut creek distribution of yggdrasil that I started with
[08:34:25] <eric_unterhause1> I should get rid of my minix book
[08:36:09] <archivist> there are plenty of collectors who would want it
[08:37:17] <archivist> iirc there were a couple of versions, mine is 1.5
[09:03:34] <PetefromTn> morning fellas..
[09:17:27] <Loetmichel> I bought 10 3,5mm drills two weeks ago. NONE left... and we are only 4 workers here...its about
[09:17:43] <Loetmichel> oh, there was something missing
[09:18:25] <Loetmichel> grrrr... sometimes i think we have a little ironeater here in the workshop... I bought 10 3,5mm drills two weeks ago. NONE left... and we are only 4 workers here...its about
[09:18:27] <Loetmichel> better
[09:18:57] <Loetmichel> - its about
[09:33:26] <jdh> 15% off everything at Enco until tomorrow 'WEBSALE'
[09:34:02] <archivist> cpresser,
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/mirror/Walnut_Creek/
[09:38:01] <cpresser> nice. ty :)
[09:38:47] <archivist> cpresser, you probably need the manual too, 32 pages to scan
[09:39:57] <archivist> it was assumed at the time one started with a dos box to create floppies etc from its content
[09:56:35] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[09:56:54] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: ?
[10:00:52] <archivist> cpresser, the manual is scanned and in the same directory
[10:02:15] <IchGuckLive> hi pete
[10:02:20] <PetefromTn> Hey man..
[10:02:24] <PetefromTn> How ya doing?
[10:02:43] <IchGuckLive> im fine both plasmas at full speed right now
[10:02:54] <IchGuckLive> 45min to go
[10:02:54] <PetefromTn> Color me jealous..
[10:03:33] <PetefromTn> Just pulled off the Cat40 tooling fixture setup from the machine and I cleaned and installed my new CNC vise to the mill table and indicated it in.
[10:03:54] <jdh> cool
[10:04:06] <PetefromTn> Unfortunately the electronic edge finder I purchased has a 3/4 inch shaft and I do not have any 3/4 inch collets or endmill holders DOH!.
[10:04:54] <jdh> I tried to cut my wrench last night. My backing plate was small and in my vise so the stock ended up being outside my envelope
[10:05:09] <PetefromTn> Was looking forward to being able to touch off accurately with it.
[10:05:28] <PetefromTn> jdh What machine again?
[10:05:42] <jdh> g0704
[10:05:58] <PetefromTn> aah.. well can you make a table mounted fixture plate?
[10:06:18] <jdh> vise is mounted so the top/back/wtf of the vise is almost the edge of travel. I forgot that when I mounted it.
[10:06:37] <jdh> yeah, or just use a bigger fixture plate
[10:06:43] <PetefromTn> This CNC vise I bought looks halfway decent but it did not come with any hold down clamps.
[10:06:54] <PetefromTn> Oh okay well can ya move it inboard?
[10:07:11] <jdh> no, it would hit the column
[10:08:18] <PetefromTn> Ya know I had similar problems on the RF45 with the vise I bought. It has a large bit of flashing cast iron on the back of the vise near the column and it forces me to move the vise to the front of the table tee slots so it would clear. That made getting to the back of the vise diffcult at times.
[10:08:44] <jdh> same with this one. I was thinking of cutting it off
[10:08:45] <PetefromTn> The Cincinatti here has 20" of Y travel which I think I am gonna really enjoy LOL.. my RF45 had just under ten....
[10:09:22] <PetefromTn> I ALMOST cut mine off too LOL... I cannot see how it would hurt too bad as long as you did not get it too hot and did not remove anything really structural.
[10:10:47] <PetefromTn> That is one of the nice things about these CNC vises they do not have that surround but you gotta buy or make clamps to hold them down with. You can also clamp them anywhere you can reach them with the tee slots instead of the two bolt holes in the typical vises. Also if you use the flashing to clamp to on them you usually screw up the paint a good bit too. The CNC vises don't seem to have
[10:10:47] <PetefromTn> that problem.
[10:11:08] <PetefromTn> I also like that I can tilt this thing on its side to hold things longer vertically if I want to.
[10:11:19] <PetefromTn> Should have bought one of these first LOL..
[10:11:34] <PetefromTn> I am probably going to look to buy another one here once I get some more spare change.
[10:13:58] <PetefromTn> I got a small paying job here for the machine and I really needed the vise for it. Now that it is here I am trying to decide if I should just make some sacrificial jaws right away for it and then make the parts or just go ahead and make the parts first.
[10:20:34] <PetefromTn> I must have the worst damn internet anywhere..
[10:21:02] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn: I just made some clamps for my VMC as the vise slots didn't line up
[10:21:09] <jdh> the electrons get confused by the hills and rednecks
[10:21:45] <PetefromTn> jdh LOL ya got that right.... fortunately I am not from here so I am excempt from the redneck.
[10:21:57] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop Pics or it didn't happen man..
[10:22:16] <jdh> or perhaps you exemplify?
[10:22:19] <JT-Shop> maybe...
[10:22:41] <PetefromTn> perhaps, for instance I think I misspelled exempt.
[10:24:09] <PetefromTn> Honestly I have been here for so long I think it may be in a state of incipient redneck...
[10:24:55] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop What exactly did you do there? DO you have CNC vises or kurt style flanged vises?
[10:25:02] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/257838
[10:25:26] <JT-Shop> Glacern vises
[10:25:45] <PetefromTn> huh those don't look like Glacern vises...
[10:26:26] <PetefromTn> that the Pro-tools vise stop system?
[10:26:39] <PetefromTn> What kinda machine is that?
[10:26:58] <JT-Shop> oh yea the one on the right is a Glacern vise the left one starts with a p
[10:27:09] <PetefromTn> parlec?
[10:27:11] <JT-Shop> the red thing on the back?
[10:27:15] <JT-Shop> yea that is it
[10:27:17] <PetefromTn> yeah
[10:27:38] <PetefromTn> wait I'll get a snapshot of my new vise on the table with holddowns...
[10:28:07] <PetefromTn> what mill is that? Oh and what are ya making with it?
[10:28:38] <JT-Shop> the sticker fell off of the stop
[10:28:50] <JT-Shop> it's a BP Discovery 308
[10:28:52] <PetefromTn> aah...
[10:29:03] <JT-Shop> got the stop from flea bay
[10:29:14] <PetefromTn> LOL I almost bought a used Discover 308... It looks like a decent machine. Heidenhan?
[10:29:53] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/257839
[10:30:12] <JT-Shop> DX-32 control
[10:30:34] <JT-Shop> damn drives don't like running on a phase converter :(
[10:30:40] <PetefromTn> NICE... Damn I need to find some work like that for my machine...
[10:31:14] <PetefromTn> I hear ya.. Honestly I think that was what the problem with my machine was most likely. The voltages are just not right sometimes I guess.
[10:31:28] <PetefromTn> I bought a GOOD QUALITY one too.. not some chinese POS.
[10:31:52] <PetefromTn> ya making a living with that thing?
[10:31:56] <JT-Shop> I made a high quality RPC from scratch with balanced legs
[10:32:09] <JT-Shop> that and all the rest of my equipment
[10:32:22] <JT-Shop> I design and build automation equipment
[10:32:30] <PetefromTn> you made all the rest of your equipment?
[10:32:44] <JT-Shop> just my plasma cutter
[10:33:18] <JT-Shop> I have a Hardinge CHNC lathe and a BP knee mill with an Anilam 3 axis conversion kit on it
[10:33:43] <PetefromTn> I need to find some work somehow for the machine now that it is working, been trying to get some RFQ work but nothing too good yet.
[10:34:00] <JT-Shop> I make stuff like this usually
http://imagebin.org/257840
[10:34:35] <PetefromTn> is that some kinda press workstation?
[10:35:03] <JT-Shop> no, it installs the brake assembly on the motor with two bolts
[10:35:16] <PetefromTn> oh okay...
[10:35:26] <JT-Shop> it is on a convayer line with <5 second cycle time
[10:35:29] <PetefromTn> looks like interesting work anyway...
[10:35:35] <JT-Shop> yep
[10:35:36] <PetefromTn> PLC?
[10:35:44] <JT-Shop> yes
[10:35:54] <PetefromTn> cool..
[10:36:11] <PetefromTn> Where ya at? to dangle the participle...
[10:36:41] <JT-Shop> swamp east Missouri
[10:36:59] <PetefromTn> LOL
[10:37:10] <PetefromTn> near St. Louie?
[10:37:34] <JT-Shop> I'm not near any big cities... YEA!
[10:38:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, fancy material stop
[10:38:10] <JT-Shop> I'm 2 weeks from anywhere...
[10:38:11] <PetefromTn> I'm about 20 from KnoxVegas...
[10:38:20] <Tom_itx> we clamped ours to the table usually
[10:38:21] <PetefromTn> You're also in dreamland..
[10:38:35] <Tom_itx> or used a dowel pin in a tool holder alot
[10:38:49] <Tom_itx> saves time
[10:39:02] <Tom_itx> we just kept a tool position free for it
[10:39:04] <JT-Shop> I use the dowel pin to set the first part then move the stop to the part and it saves even more time
[10:39:04] <PetefromTn> actually those vise mounted stops are quite handy...
[10:39:29] <JT-Shop> I also use the stop that fits in the slot of the rear jaw
[10:39:51] <JT-Shop> yikes I need to get some work done
[10:39:57] <Tom_itx> no fancy anodizing on ours though
[10:40:02] <PetefromTn> lucky guy...
[10:40:04] <Tom_itx> we just made em
[10:40:17] <Tom_itx> and MANY pairs of soft jaws
[10:40:31] <PetefromTn> I love soft jaws..
[10:42:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, those must be 4" vises
[10:42:59] <Tom_itx> hard to tell really
[10:46:50] <PetefromTn> Jeez man doen't the CNCzone forum EVER work right?
[10:47:13] <Tom_itx> don't go there often enough to tell you
[10:47:57] <PetefromTn> I have been trying to update my damn build thread there for a couple days now and it never works.... Someone left me a post there today and I can't even respond to the damn thing.
[11:03:15] <PetefromTn> I guess I can put the edge finder in my CNC drill chuck.....probably gonna be less than ideal runout.
[11:10:22] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: 6"
[11:12:33] <DaViruz_> PetefromTn: less ronout is good! :)
[11:15:26] <jdh> I wonder if my 5" vise will fit in my 6" bandsaw
[11:18:17] <archivist> then you can convert it to a 2.5" vice
[11:19:10] <jdh> I just want to get rid of the back flange
[11:33:22] <PetefromTn> well broke my first tool...DOH!
[11:33:57] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: will not be the last
[11:34:26] <Loetmichel> i broke 6 2.0mm 2-flute Tungsten carbide bits yesterday....
[11:40:28] <wd-40> Are any of you using Linux as your primary OS for drafting? If so, what do you use to draw and generate your g-code?
[11:41:20] <frallzor> ahoyhoy mateys
[11:41:49] <PetefromTn> ahoy frallzor
[11:42:02] <frallzor> Im uninspired
[11:42:06] <frallzor> it sucks
[11:42:12] <PetefromTn> Well I tried to pick up the vise corner with a solid tool and some paper.
[11:42:43] <PetefromTn> I used my nice 45 degree champfer mill because it does not have any protruding teeth on the OD of the tool shank so I figured it was safe.
[11:43:08] <PetefromTn> I measured the runout and then using the MPG moved it over to set the Y coord.
[11:43:31] <PetefromTn> I had Connor setup my MPG with custom buttons so I can just select X Y Z etc..
[11:43:53] <Connor> PetefromTn: How did you break your tool?
[11:44:01] <PetefromTn> Well I jogged the head down between the vise jaws and then selected the Y axis MPG.
[11:44:26] <PetefromTn> I carefully jogged it to the fixed jaw and put the paper in there and set .0001 increments
[11:44:53] <PetefromTn> Once I got it tight there I hit touch off and using my calculator figured the diameter by half plus the paper.
[11:44:59] <PetefromTn> Everything was going quite nicely
[11:45:24] <PetefromTn> Then Iooked up at the screen and using the mouse clicked in the manual control area to select the Z axis.
[11:45:42] <PetefromTn> I was gonna jog the head up out of the vise and move over to start picking up the X coord.
[11:46:05] <PetefromTn> Well I turned the MPG wheel after setting .001 increments and started moving it up or so I thought.
[11:46:31] <PetefromTn> Apparently with the buttons Connor made for the MPG you HAVE TO press those buttons NOT the manual control buttons.
[11:46:59] <Connor> Yea, they're independent.
[11:47:01] <PetefromTn> When I started MPG wheeling the head up instead the Y continued forward pressing the champfer mill against the vise jaw.
[11:47:18] <Connor> You You damage the vise jaw ?
[11:47:20] <PetefromTn> Well before I realized what happened I heard a snap and the tool went flying...
[11:47:36] <PetefromTn> Fortunately all that happened was the tool breakage.
[11:47:37] <generic_nick|2> nice, good work!
[11:47:54] <generic_nick|2> it wont be your last
[11:47:56] <PetefromTn> The vise actually moved a tad out of alignment and there does not appear to be any physical damage to the tool...
[11:48:09] <PetefromTn> The tool was not spinning at the time...
[11:48:19] <PetefromTn> generic_nick|2 Thanks man for your support LOL.
[11:48:25] <generic_nick|2> i just got over $140 for broken tools from my metal recycler
[11:48:43] <PetefromTn> I got a small box full of broken bits here.
[11:48:55] <generic_nick|2> almost $10/lb
[11:49:12] <PetefromTn> I really thought the edge finder would fit in the chuck but apparently not the chuck is quite small despite its large body size...
[11:49:35] <PetefromTn> Oh well, that was frustratin...
[11:50:01] <PetefromTn> any way to make the buttons work so that it does not matter which one you press? I could see this happening again.
[11:50:43] <Connor> I'll have to look into it.
[11:51:07] <generic_nick|2> and2?
[11:51:17] <generic_nick|2> or or2?
[11:51:23] <generic_nick|2> one of those
[11:51:45] <generic_nick|2> i forgets
[11:52:15] <PetefromTn> Connor Thanks man, Understand I am not mad at you but I really thought we had that part wired for sound LOL.
[11:52:31] <generic_nick|2> and2 combines 2 inputs to work on one output
[11:53:04] <frallzor> Ok guys, inspire me, small things you can make out of wood, shoot!
[11:53:06] <PetefromTn> Honestly had I been paying better attention I would have noticed the table was moving instead of the head. It is one of those, okay I got the measurement and now back to easy movement kinda feelings...
[11:53:22] <PetefromTn> frallzor Toothpicks?
[11:53:29] <frallzor> bigger
[11:53:31] <generic_nick|2> PetefromTn: it's operator error
[11:53:41] <PetefromTn> generic_nick|2 Yup sure as hell is...
[11:53:58] <PetefromTn> Okay how about a BIG toothpick.
[11:54:16] <PetefromTn> How about some wooden puzzles?
[11:54:26] <PetefromTn> Maybe a ball in a cube made from wood?
[11:54:30] <frallzor> too fine wood to make that
[11:54:43] <frallzor> want something that = wow factor
[11:54:57] <PetefromTn> how about a little sign that says WOW!!
[11:55:11] <PetefromTn> just bustin yer chops dude...
[11:55:23] <frallzor> I make enough signs as it is =P
[11:55:43] <generic_nick|2> ok, in pyvcp, i have a radio button named "X AXIS". how do i put that in hal with the space? i know Hap pins cant have a space. do i use _?
[11:55:57] <generic_nick|2> Hal, not hap
[11:56:28] <PetefromTn> I need to find a CHEAP decent quality 3/4 inch cat40 holder for my edge finder now...
[11:58:00] <PetefromTn> Hmm I hope I didn't piss frallzor off...he just quit.
[11:58:15] <ReadError> thats what we call a rage quit
[11:58:17] <PetefromTn> I am apparently quite good at it without trying...
[11:58:28] <ReadError> except his connection was reset
[11:58:29] <PetefromTn> SERIOSLY?
[11:58:32] <ReadError> so fear not!
[11:58:34] <jdh> paste a link and see?
[11:58:36] <PetefromTn> Seriously?
[11:58:52] <PetefromTn> smartass...LOL
[11:59:15] <generic_nick|2> he hates you now
[11:59:33] <PetefromTn> I would not doubt it. Sometimes I hate me too...
[11:59:41] <generic_nick|2> he lays in bed putting on messy lipstick and carves your name into his wall
[11:59:48] <PetefromTn> ROFL..
[11:59:56] <PetefromTn> is it Pink?
[12:00:18] <generic_nick|2> red. look out for any guys on a nearby roof.
[12:00:37] <generic_nick|2> with a wooden gun
[12:00:38] <PetefromTn> Hell that part I am not worried about. I can snipe em too...
[12:00:57] <generic_nick|2> at least he now knows what to make.
[12:01:25] <PetefromTn> yup.
[12:02:09] <PetefromTn> I was just tryin' to be funny.....trying anyways.
[12:02:13] <generic_nick|2> ok ubuntu wont update anything. just gives an error
[12:02:27] <generic_nick|2> it downloads the packages but fails to install
[12:02:36] <PetefromTn> thats not very nice of it.
[12:03:53] <PetefromTn> Whats the error? Honestly I am not very good at the programming side. Well honestly I am not very good at any side but I try. If it were not for Connor I would be still poking around trying to figure out how to move around in Ubuntu...
[12:06:44] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/aej5ewy I think I will do that to my vise (shars not glacern)
[12:08:37] <PetefromTn> not coming up for me...what is it?
[12:09:04] <jdh> oh, it's a cnczone hosted pic... have to be logged in. It is a glacern 5" vise with the flange in the back milled off
[12:09:38] <PetefromTn> aah okay... that splains it. I have not been able to get on the zone in any fashion at all today.
[12:10:19] <PetefromTn> actually for several days now..
[12:10:42] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[12:11:07] <jdh> did you try logging in? (Just checking)
[12:11:25] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: ?
[12:11:25] <PetefromTn> Nothing loads,, not even just CNCzone.com
[12:11:48] <PetefromTn> It just says timed out or something like it is not there..
[12:12:36] <generic_nick|2> so nobody knows how to put a space in a pyvcp radio button choice and still have it work in hal?
[12:13:21] <IchGuckLive> space in name
[12:13:32] <IchGuckLive> or space between choises
[12:13:49] <generic_nick|2> space in the name of the choice
[12:14:43] <generic_nick|2> <choices>{"x axis","y axis"]</choices>
[12:14:51] <generic_nick|2> something like that
[12:15:46] <generic_nick|2> in hal, it would be pyvcp.axis-selection.x axis, which doesnt work because of the space
[12:16:09] <IchGuckLive> as the halpins have the name of the choice it is not posible
[12:16:29] <generic_nick|2> that sucks
[12:16:31] <IchGuckLive> use a -
[12:17:33] <generic_nick|2> yea, i just figured there had to be a way
[12:17:57] <IchGuckLive> underscore or minus shoudt work
[12:18:30] <PetefromTn> Odd I just tried to get on CNCzone on my smartphone and it worked okay, then I tried it again on the laptop and no dice. Tried Internet explorer as well as mozilla.
[12:19:58] <IchGuckLive> yea cnczone is a misserie on geting on
[12:20:20] <PetefromTn> I cannot even get the page to load...
[12:21:01] <IchGuckLive> generic_nick|2: WHy not "Xaxis","Yaxis,"Zaxis"
[12:21:28] <IchGuckLive> odoe it realy need to be your way
[12:21:46] <IchGuckLive> does
[12:23:18] <generic_nick|2> it doesnt, it just seems weird, thats all
[12:24:10] <IchGuckLive> ok you then nead to life with it
[12:26:07] <generic_nick|2> i was just asking dude, relax.
[12:26:20] <IchGuckLive> O.O B)
[12:26:57] <IchGuckLive> someone knows if i can chnge the modal group for user definfd Mcodes not remap
[12:30:38] <generic_nick|2> cool that seems to work.
[12:32:24] <generic_nick|2> wonder what else i should put on my control pannel with pyvcp
[12:32:39] <IchGuckLive> Timi is on 2 lines
[12:32:45] <generic_nick|2> i just put on the axis selection and jog multiplier for my pendat
[12:32:55] <IchGuckLive> time on pice overal mashine time
[12:33:17] <IchGuckLive> set G54 X zero
[12:33:22] <generic_nick|2> IchGuckLive: i have a program timer already on there
[12:33:24] <IchGuckLive> set G54 Y zero
[12:33:25] <PetefromTn> I want some buttons that make quick single click feedrate and spindle override adjustments like 0%,10%,25% 50% and 100%
[12:33:37] <IchGuckLive> set G54 Z zero
[12:33:44] <IchGuckLive> set G54 XYZ zero
[12:33:56] <IchGuckLive> Move to G54 XY
[12:33:57] <generic_nick|2> IchGuckLive: dont i need to use glade to do that instead of pyvcp?
[12:34:09] <IchGuckLive> no
[12:34:19] <IchGuckLive> G10 L20 P1 X0
[12:34:25] <generic_nick|2> ah ok.
[12:34:26] <IchGuckLive> simple MDI
[12:34:44] <IchGuckLive> and with a M100 you can reload the AXIS gui
[12:34:47] <generic_nick|2> i thought you needed glade for anything that wasnt just hal pin related
[12:34:54] <IchGuckLive> so it is also in the display
[12:36:26] <generic_nick|2> ooooh i know what i need. a "stop progam execution" button. a big red one
[12:36:39] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive?
[12:36:46] <IchGuckLive> and resume in one button
[12:36:56] <generic_nick|2> since i wont really be using the keyboard as much so i cannot just hit the escape
[12:37:10] <generic_nick|2> IchGuckLive: i have a real button for that
[12:37:22] <IchGuckLive> hi Tom_itx i improved your button by reloding the g-code at the same time you set it
[12:37:38] <Tom_itx> which button?
[12:37:39] <generic_nick|2> i have 5 real buttons on the control pannel, e-stop, coolant, run, resume, feed hold
[12:38:03] <IchGuckLive> pause Resme can be one
[12:38:09] <Tom_itx> mine is
[12:38:22] <generic_nick|2> IchGuckLive: yea i realized that after i engraved the pannel already haha
[12:38:32] <Tom_itx> fix it
[12:38:35] <Tom_itx> we are pros here
[12:38:39] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: G10 L20 P1 X0 M100
[12:38:40] <Tom_itx> no sloppy work
[12:38:53] <Tom_itx> for the x y z offsets?
[12:38:57] <IchGuckLive> wher M100 reloads the G-code
[12:39:01] <Tom_itx> oh
[12:39:01] <generic_nick|2> Tom_itx: too late
[12:39:11] <Tom_itx> i'll add that and see what it does
[12:39:12] <Tom_itx> thanks
[12:39:23] <IchGuckLive> you need the M100
[12:39:46] <Tom_itx> i usually set my fixture offsets at the beginning of a run so i'd probably never notice it
[12:39:59] <generic_nick|2> i should put in regular jog buttons too
[12:40:09] <generic_nick|2> rapid jog i mean
[12:40:32] <PetefromTn> hopefully with some sorta safety..
[12:42:47] <generic_nick|2> yea, built in safety. the belt will snap when the axis hits it's limit at 300ipm.
[12:44:05] <PetefromTn> oh only 300? and yeah surely the belt will snap for ya LOL... My machine is direct drive servo with couplers so I would have some bent metal and flying parts I think...
[12:45:06] <generic_nick|2> ha nice
[12:45:20] <generic_nick|2> mine was directly coupled, i switched to belt drive
[12:45:46] <generic_nick|2> got sick of the servos having 1.5' out at ball level
[12:47:18] <PetefromTn> trying to find a CHEAP 3/4 cat40 holder here online... I need one for this damn edgefinder.
[12:47:49] <archivist> does cheap also mean concentric :)
[12:47:53] <Tom_itx> get a pencil holder
[12:48:01] <Tom_itx> although those are up to 1/4"
[12:48:01] <PetefromTn> prolly not.
[12:48:06] <Tom_itx> some may go bigger
[12:48:22] <Tom_itx> 'collet chuck extension'
[12:49:00] <andypugh> I have one here.
[12:49:09] <andypugh> Completely useless to me.
[12:49:10] <Tom_itx> they're handy
[12:49:14] <Tom_itx> for small drills
[12:49:22] <Tom_itx> in deep pockets
[12:49:46] <PetefromTn> somethin like this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT40-Solid-End-Mill-Tool-Holders-3-4-CAT-40-Tool-Holder-Holders-CNC-CT40-/281096800076?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4172acc74c
[12:50:09] <PetefromTn> andypugh Really? Whats the brand? what kind of holder is it?
[12:50:11] <andypugh> That's _fairly_ cheap
[12:50:44] <PetefromTn> yeah and they are in Murfreesboro Tn....
[12:50:50] <andypugh> Unknown brand, was probably made by Landrover as a special. Technically it is flash-change not CAT.
[12:51:16] <PetefromTn> whazza flash change?
[12:51:29] <andypugh> It would cost me more to post it than that eBay one costs.
[12:51:40] <PetefromTn> yeah I am sure...
[12:52:23] <PetefromTn> Sucks trying to get started with tooling when you are broke LOL...
[12:52:46] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/tooling-parts-accessories-sale-wanted/wtb-30-flash-change-tooling-135757/
[12:52:51] <PetefromTn> Amazing how that champfer mill just snapped off when I jogged it wrong...
[12:53:36] <andypugh> (However, my holders do have the extension and thread, whereas the one in the picture has neither)
[12:53:59] <PetefromTn> huh interesting. Never heard of it.
[12:57:05] <PetefromTn> need one of these in the shop...
http://knoxville.craigslist.org/bar/3803019325.html
[13:00:36] <IchGuckLive> hi leeloo
[13:03:19] <generic_nick|2> is there a hal pin for stop execution (the escape key)?
[13:03:26] <generic_nick|2> cant find it anywhere
[13:04:24] <pcw_home> motion.enable?
[13:04:43] <pcw_home> man motion
[13:06:16] <IchGuckLive> iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[13:06:50] <IchGuckLive> net estop-ext <= pyvcp.estop
[13:07:03] <generic_nick|2> i dont want to turn the machine off, i just want to stop the program, basically. not pause, but stop
[13:07:04] <IchGuckLive> net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[13:07:06] <IchGuckLive> net estop-ext => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[13:07:34] <generic_nick|2> basically the same thing the escape key does
[13:08:45] <generic_nick|2> i dont like powering everything on and off for no reason, there's a lot of relays and contacts, and fans, vfd, drives, etc.
[13:09:08] <IchGuckLive> halui.program.stop
[13:09:41] <generic_nick|2> yea, wasnt sure if that would stop an mdi command too
[13:10:07] <generic_nick|2> not a big deal i guess
[13:10:13] <IchGuckLive> mdi is not a running programm
[13:10:22] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive, unknown mcode used
[13:10:31] <Tom_itx> it's in the nc file directory
[13:10:33] <Tom_itx> with CAPS
[13:10:36] <generic_nick|2> escape works to stop an mdi command
[13:10:53] <Tom_itx> added to the mdi command
[13:11:05] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: use USER_M_PATH =
[13:11:23] <IchGuckLive> in [RS274NGC]#
[13:11:45] <Tom_itx> i'll look
[13:12:57] <atom1> it's because i have the ngcgui tools loaded
[13:13:03] <atom1> it changed that path
[13:13:13] <atom1> how do i add more than one path?
[13:13:31] <IchGuckLive> atom1: you ca n use 4
[13:13:43] <atom1> how do i add more than one path?
[13:13:56] <IchGuckLive> SUBROUTINE_PATH =
[13:14:23] <atom1> SUBROUTINE_PATH = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib:/home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/
[13:14:34] <atom1> the : allows for more apparently
[13:14:41] <IchGuckLive> Specifies a list of colon (:)
[13:16:50] <atom1> add it to SUBROUTINE_FILE or USER_M_PATH?
[13:17:08] <IchGuckLive> what are the files
[13:17:16] <atom1> M100
[13:17:33] <IchGuckLive> you can also use the display PROGRAM_PREFIX =
[13:17:51] <IchGuckLive> M100 i woudt do USER_M_PATH
[13:18:17] <atom1> PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/
[13:18:23] <atom1> already set
[13:18:40] <IchGuckLive> "/home/tom/linuxcnc/mcodes
[13:19:19] <atom1> can i have more than one PROGRAM_PREFIX line?
[13:19:21] <IchGuckLive> "USER_M_PATH =/home/tom/linuxcnc/mcodes
[13:19:54] <atom1> USER_M_PATH = /home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/ngcgui_lib/mfiles:/home/tom/linuxcnc/nc_files/
[13:20:03] <atom1> and that's where it is
[13:20:25] <IchGuckLive> did you chmod +x
[13:20:37] <atom1> probably not
[13:20:43] <IchGuckLive> i usee a usermcode folder different
[13:20:54] <IchGuckLive> so the m code files are all in this foldder
[13:21:56] <IchGuckLive> you can do it by right kick and advance Use as A programm
[13:23:14] <IchGuckLive> i woudt put it sepperate so only the user mcode search is finding it
[13:23:45] <IchGuckLive> i got many problems on remap that dicided me to go a seperate folder on this
[13:24:38] <atom1> the chmod fixed it
[13:24:47] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[13:25:34] <IchGuckLive> now you can move around get the Zero and see wher you are while the g-code follows you B)
[13:25:47] <gambakufu> is it me or is linuxcnc.org in russian?
[13:25:51] <atom1> huh?
[13:26:32] <gambakufu> ok, it's just my messed up firefox, I guess :)
[13:26:35] <IchGuckLive> gambakufu: maybe the mach folks hacked the side
[13:27:12] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by folks till tomorrow
[13:27:50] <wd-40> So nobody is using Linux as their drafting environment?
[13:28:50] <wd-40> I've been learning freeCad lately which is pretty cool
[13:28:56] <wd-40> There is no way to generate g-code from it though
[13:29:07] <wd-40> Errr
[13:29:10] <wd-40> I meant librecad
[13:30:47] <cpresser> wd-40: dxf2gcode
[13:30:55] <cpresser> there are some ways to vonvert dxf to gcode
[13:31:49] <wd-40> I've seen dxf2gcode among several others.
[13:31:55] <wd-40> I was just wondering which one I should try out.
[13:32:16] <Tom_itx> all of them til you find one you like
[13:32:17] <wd-40> There seem to be a lot of cam applications out there that just aren't complete.
[13:33:07] <frallzor> I say most are complete thay is for good cad-software
[13:33:11] <frallzor> *that
[13:35:22] <wd-40> Thanks guys!
[13:35:32] <wd-40> Does dxf2gcode handle pocketing operations well?
[13:54:39] <skroon> hi
[13:55:37] <wd-40> Hey skroon!
[13:59:45] <generic_nick|2> ok i think i got the mill pretty dialed. pyvcp buttons all work, touch screen works, etc.
[14:04:54] <skroon> anyone here using linuxcnc to mill pcb's as well?
[14:10:49] <generic_nick|2> im sure a lot of people are
[14:11:30] <archivist> whats the real question
[14:25:07] <generic_nick|2> well this is great.... so i tried doing updates, and it failed durring the install. i restarted, now i cant get on the network.
[14:25:46] <generic_nick|2> any way to get it back to how it was before?
[14:32:32] <generic_nick|2> or am i stuck reinstalling this again?
[14:33:14] <archivist> reinstall is often the wrong answer
[14:35:03] <generic_nick|2> i cant even get online
[14:47:02] <Daywalker198454> hello, i want to do two loops in linuxcnc .. i have the following setup: ac servocontroller with internal loop and step/dir input => from first parport pin 2 and 3 and a linear encoder on the second parport <= phase-a pin 2 and phase-b pin 3 how can in cloose the loop between linux cnc and the tableposition?
[14:52:47] <Daywalker198454> kan somebody tell how to do this
[14:53:12] <Daywalker198454> ????
[15:04:55] <Connor> Daywalker198454: First thing I would suggest.. is don't try that with parport.. your going to find yourself limited by the speed of the computer very quickly. look into MESA
[15:13:05] <Daywalker198454> i want to test it withe the parport first.. and when all is fine -> Mesa ;)
[15:13:24] <Connor> That would be a heck of allot of work...
[15:13:48] <Connor> and the config will be completely different.
[15:15:03] <Daywalker198454> first i want to understand how to do it.. and how it works to learn
[15:16:08] <Daywalker198454> like.. first you have to do.... then you have to da....
[15:22:53] <Daywalker198454> can nobody help me with a sample
[15:23:27] <Connor> I've not seen many, if anyone, doing that...
[15:23:40] <Connor> Plenty of examples with straight servo's.
[15:24:46] <Daywalker198454> some guy´s did it with steppers in velocitymode?
[15:25:22] <Daywalker198454> then it works like a servo config right?
[15:25:27] <Connor> Not sure how you would do it with a stepper in velocity mode..
[15:25:41] <Connor> not sure HOW you do a stepper in velocity mode..
[15:26:46] <Daywalker198454> i read about it in the integrators manual.. just have to change stepgenmode
[15:28:46] <Daywalker198454> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/5487-lathe-with-servo-drive-stepdir-and-encoder#5489
[15:29:57] <Daywalker198454> my problem is i dont understand what everything is doing and how it is linked and why... i want to understand it
[15:33:42] <generic_nick|2> ok, finally everything works.
[15:34:14] <frallzor> hmmm anyone into arcades and know what one could charge for an allmost done case? =P
[15:34:19] <frallzor> just need a computer =)
[15:41:27] <GammaX-Shop> Afternoon all
[15:45:14] <GammaX-Shop> Can someone please help with a makefile that points to emc folders?
[15:45:50] <mhaberler> what would you want to achieve?
[15:48:59] <GammaX-Shop|2> sorry my connection is a bit curddy today
[15:50:29] <GammaX-Shop|2> JT-Shop: you there?
[15:59:08] <PetefromTn> anyone know how to setup Mirc to show the online status of other users? My quassel had this feature by greying out the names that were NOT online and leaving highllighted the names of those who were online...
[15:59:44] <GammaX-Shop|2> PetefromTn: do you have regular mirc or a custom version?
[15:59:54] <GammaX-Shop|2> David bowie lets dance is super gay...
[15:59:56] <PetefromTn> Dunno I guess regular
[16:00:10] <GammaX-Shop|2> look up hte custom scripts that change it around.
[16:00:14] <PetefromTn> Gotta disagree... ANYTHING david Bowie does is cool...
[16:00:24] <GammaX-Shop|2> WHAT!
[16:00:31] <PetefromTn> you got it right man...
[16:00:34] <GammaX-Shop|2> Laberanth was the only thing he did that was cool
[16:00:35] <Tom_itx> what mirc ver?
[16:00:40] <GammaX-Shop|2> although at the same time SUPER creapy
[16:00:51] <PetefromTn> I loved Labrynth...
[16:01:19] <PetefromTn> whazza HTE script?
[16:01:36] <GammaX-Shop|2> theres diff ones, its not a script but an add on.... it changes everything
[16:01:40] <GammaX-Shop|2> LOADS more features
[16:01:46] <PetefromTn> free?
[16:01:57] <GammaX-Shop|2> yup
[16:02:00] <GammaX-Shop|2> ill try to find a site for u
[16:02:02] <GammaX-Shop|2> if you help me!
[16:02:31] <GammaX-Shop|2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/LinuxCNC/Modbus/ look at the last bit of script... I need that to run without it saying ./find-libdir: command not found.
[16:02:35] <PetefromTn> How exactly...?
[16:04:06] <Icekiller> question guys if i can choose between tr12x3 or tr12x6 what should i use?
[16:04:28] <Tom_itx> tr12x6 sounds bigger so it must be better
[16:04:31] <andypugh> Daywalker198454: You basically need a servo setup, with a PID component creating an output proportional to position error. But instead of the PID output going to a PWM to create a voltage, it goes to a velocity-mode stepgen as a motor speed command for your drive
[16:04:56] <andypugh> Icekiller: Do you need speed or force?
[16:05:01] <GammaX-Shop|2> Icekiller: wtf are those?
[16:05:27] <andypugh> Trapezoidal leadscrews
[16:05:28] <PetefromTn> looked it up and it appears to be NUTZ...
[16:05:46] <PetefromTn> oh yeah and screws too...
[16:06:01] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[16:06:21] <GammaX-Shop|2> I need this stupid make fie to work so bad
[16:06:28] <GammaX-Shop|2> then im basicl done with my machine! lol
[16:07:16] <andypugh> wd-40: SheetCAM does quite well at making G-code from DXF.
[16:07:21] <PetefromTn> GammaX-Shop|2 Hey man I wish I knew more about this stuff so I could help you. I keep hoping some of this stuff will rub off on me thru osmisis or something while I hang around here..
[16:07:43] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[16:07:56] <PetefromTn> andypugh Yeah I agree sheetcam is pretty decent. It has its limitations but works pretty damn good for what it is.
[16:08:58] <andypugh> GammaX-Shop|2: So, what is the problem you have with your makefile?
[16:09:24] <PetefromTn> Okay folks gotta go mow the damn yard. Talk to ya later...
[16:09:45] <GammaX-Shop|2> I changed all the naming conventions from emc to linuxcnc and it says now... make: ./find-libdir: command not found. Stop.
[16:11:42] <GammaX-Shop|2> andypugh: that was in reply to you ^^ :)
[16:12:11] <andypugh> What are you compiling?
[16:12:47] <GammaX-Shop|2> mbrtyport.c
[16:13:05] <GammaX-Shop|2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/LinuxCNC/Modbus/ second to last script on te page.
[16:14:28] <Tom_itx> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9214056/how-can-i-make-a-makefile-determine-the-systems-lib-directory
[16:16:22] <GammaX-Shop|2> hmmmm
[16:16:34] <GammaX-Shop|2> Tom_itx: this might work ill try it out thanks!
[16:17:39] <andypugh> GammaX-Shop|2: I have a feeling that comp might be able to compile and install that file. Have you tried that
[16:18:10] <andypugh> Ah, no, wait, it doesn't do the C + Userspace combination. Ignore that idea.
[16:19:29] <JT-Shop> GammaX-Shop|2: kinda
[16:20:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> the .c file... uhhhh I dont remember
[16:20:16] <GammaX-Shop|2> Ok i tried, i get ALOT of errors,
[16:20:18] <GammaX-Shop|2> almost every lines I get an error mostly no such file of directory
[16:20:20] <GammaX-Shop|2> was gonna see if you can help with this situation but I may have a fix... not sure yet. trying to sort it out not
[16:23:38] <GammaX-Shop|2> Tried changing the make file to directly point to /usr/lib and now its saying .o/mbrtuport.d: no such file or directory | ***missing seperator. stop
[16:27:20] <DJ9DJ> gute nacht
[16:29:11] <andypugh> EMC2_HOME doesn't exist in the default environment, neither does LINUXCNC_HOME
[16:30:32] <andypugh> it _does_ exist on my dev machine, so I rather suspect it is created by ./configure
[16:31:20] <GammaX-Shop|2> should I just take that extra_cflags segment out?
[16:33:29] <andypugh> Do you have the linuxcnc sourcecode?
[16:33:44] <GammaX-Shop|2> can you please rephrase that andypugh
[16:33:44] <GammaX-Shop|2> ?
[16:33:57] <andypugh> Do you have the sourcecode for LinuxCNC?
[16:35:35] <andypugh> I would suggest that what you need to do is export the EMC2_HOME (Or LINUXCNC_HOME) environment varaible, then the extra cflags line will work.
[16:36:11] <GammaX-Shop|2> I feel kinda dumb rite now but I want to say no. I downloaded the iso and installed it and then updated via package repo
[16:36:42] <GammaX-Shop|2> I commented te line out and it still says same error
[16:39:37] <andypugh> Does it say EMC_HOME or LINUXCNC_HOME at the moment?
[16:40:53] <andypugh> It is quite likely that you need the LinuxCNC sourcecode, that variable points to the linuxcnc-dev directory on my machine.
[16:41:36] <GammaX-Shop|2> The current error if you reffering to says | makefile:33: /o/mbrtuport.d: no such file or directory | Makefile:36: *** missing seperator. Stop.
[16:41:53] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/comp.html#_installing
[16:41:56] <GammaX-Shop|2> wether I take out that line or not.
[16:42:14] <GammaX-Shop|2> skunkworks: comp wont install this file...
[16:42:32] <skunkworks> but did you do sudo apt-get install linuxcnc-dev
[16:42:52] <GammaX-Shop|2> yeah ive had that
[16:43:08] <GammaX-Shop|2> its a .c file... gets loads of errors when trying to install it
[16:44:32] <andypugh> You probably need the CFLAGS line back in, but it needs to have an actual location for EMC2_HOME, because that is where it finds the headers
[16:46:01] <GammaX-Shop|2> andypugh: I understand what your saying except for the part where I need the source code....
[16:46:18] <andypugh> Well, you might not.
[16:46:37] <andypugh> It may be that linuxcnc-dev installs the headers.
[16:50:00] <GammaX-Shop|2> this sucks... lol
[16:53:57] <GammaX-Shop|2> andypugh: i realy just dont know here to go from here. I got that .comp file to install properly yesterday... now this is killing me!
[16:54:37] <andypugh> does your makefile reference EMC2_HOME?
[16:55:00] <GammaX-Shop|2> no I changed that to linuxcnc_home
[16:55:14] <andypugh> not LINUXCNC_HOME ?
[16:58:35] <andypugh> It is possible (but I am guessing here) that you need EXTRA_CFLAGS += -I /usr/include/linuxcnc -Wall
[16:59:12] <GammaX-Shop|2> sorry LINUXCNC_HOME
[16:59:14] <GammaX-Shop|2> EXTRA_CFLAGS += -I$ (LINUXCNC_HOME) /include/linuxcnc -Wall
[16:59:14] <GammaX-Shop|2> EXTRA_CFLAGS*
[16:59:18] <andypugh> ie, pointing to the LinuxCNC headers, not using the EMC2_HOME environment variable. Which you don't have
[17:01:58] <andypugh> Actually, you _probably_ just need to set RUN_IN_PLACE=no
[17:02:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> ill try it out
[17:02:16] <GammaX-Shop|2> nope same error on line 33 and 36
[17:02:16] <GammaX-Shop|2> well I commented some lines so it may be 32/35 or 31/35
[17:02:34] <andypugh> ie, at the command prompt, RUN_IN_PLACE=no
[17:02:41] <andypugh> then export RUN_IN_PLCE
[17:02:54] <andypugh> (and check it is there with env )
[17:05:41] <GammaX-Shop|2> env is not showing run in place = no
[17:05:45] <GammaX-Shop|2> but I commented out that line and it said
[17:06:21] <GammaX-Shop|2> *** extraneous `endif''. stop
[17:06:40] <andypugh> Yes, it would.
[17:07:29] <andypugh> Make it ifeq(1,1)
[17:07:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.google.com/wallet/send-money/
[17:07:58] <andypugh> And make that change I suggested to the EXTRA_CFLAGS line
[17:12:55] <GammaX-Shop|2> did as you said, now the original error is popping up for .o/mbrtuport.d no such file or directory
[17:17:26] <andypugh> Yes, I am finding the same thing.
[17:18:32] <GammaX-Shop|2> I wonder why this is happening..
[17:19:04] <andypugh> Well, because there is no such file or directory, mainly
[17:21:43] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol yeah that is true
[17:22:28] <andypugh> I wish there was sopmeont paying attention who actually understands makefiles.
[17:23:38] <andypugh> That mysterious word was "someone"
[17:23:41] <Tom_itx> i wish i knew makefiles period
[17:24:07] <Tom_itx> i did dos makefiles quite a bit but nothing in linux
[17:24:26] <Tom_itx> except avr
[17:24:50] <GammaX-Shop|2> literally
[17:24:50] <GammaX-Shop|2> is there another way to instlal the .c file?
[17:26:18] <andypugh> You are not trying to "install" it, you are trying to compile it.
[17:26:45] <andypugh> We are nowhere near having anything that can be installed yet
[17:28:48] <Tom_itx> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/31488/Makefiles-in-Linux-An-Overview
[17:31:57] <andypugh> OK, so part of the problem is spaces where there should be tabs...
[17:32:46] <Tom_itx> it is space sensitive?
[17:32:46] <GammaX-Shop|2> Seriously?
[17:34:48] <andypugh> That's the "missing separator"
[17:34:55] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[17:35:01] <GammaX-Shop|2> wheres it gotta go
[17:35:31] <andypugh> $(CC) is undefined too, that probably won't help
[17:37:11] <andypugh> It might be easier to ask on the mailing list if Kirk can come up with a makefile that will work on an installed system without the sourcecode.
[17:37:49] <GammaX-Shop|2> i got his emal
[17:37:50] <GammaX-Shop|2> email*
[17:38:04] <GammaX-Shop|2> kwallace@wallacecompany.com
[17:38:26] <Tom_itx> it's generally not a good idea to post email address's on irc
[17:38:36] <GammaX-Shop|2> its on his website...
[17:38:44] <Tom_itx> that's still not irc
[17:38:46] <Tom_itx> but ok
[17:39:22] <Tom_itx> he's probably got it spam filtered
[17:39:43] <andypugh> Well, I may have made some interesting discoveries.
[17:40:49] <GammaX-Shop|2> andypugh you found out how to make a warp drive?
[17:41:50] <andypugh> Makefile.modinc is meant to define a lot of the environement variables
[17:41:53] <DaViruz> it's about time soneone did that
[17:42:12] <andypugh> (including EMC2_HOME)
[17:45:44] <GammaX-Shop|2> andypugh: so what does that mean?
[17:46:20] <andypugh> pass
[17:47:17] <andypugh> OK, so now my problem is that I don't have modbus.h
[17:47:33] <andypugh> But you should have
[17:48:04] <GammaX-Shop|2> correct
[17:48:20] <GammaX-Shop|2> got me that good old libmodbus
[17:49:21] <andypugh> See what this gives you as the makefile:
http://pastebin.com/1hrixL4z
[17:54:51] <GammaX-Shop|2> hmmm
[17:55:32] <r00t4rd3d> you still trying to get that joystick working?
[17:55:47] <GammaX-Shop|2> 31, .o/mbrtuport.d: no such file.
[17:56:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> 31 ignoring comands for install
[17:56:18] <andypugh> Doe sit continue past that point though
[17:56:37] <GammaX-Shop|2> 47 ignoring comands for clean
[17:57:58] <GammaX-Shop|2> did a bunch of stuff and most of it went back to ignoring old commands and make: *** [mbrtuport] error 1
[17:59:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> r00t4rd3d: nah trying to get
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/LinuxCNC/Modbus/ working
[18:00:39] <andypugh> I think that there is too much code-rot here.
[18:01:40] <andypugh> for example: modbus-version.h: No such file or directory
[18:05:03] <andypugh> Hang on, that's a problem with the modbus files I just downloaded. Not fair!
[18:05:51] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[18:08:04] <andypugh> I am guessing you haven't managed to compile libmodbus either?
[18:08:37] <GammaX-Shop|2> no i did
[18:08:59] <andypugh> OK
[18:09:29] <andypugh> where are you trying to compile mbrtuport?
[18:10:18] <GammaX-Shop|2> desktop...
[18:10:19] <GammaX-Shop|2> :D
[18:10:29] <GammaX-Shop|2> while under su
[18:11:15] <andypugh> do you have modbus-version.h in your /usr/include?
[18:11:55] <GammaX-Shop|2> I do not
[18:13:19] <andypugh> how about in (modbus folder)/src ?
[18:14:06] <GammaX-Shop|2> there is in /usr/local/include/modbus
[18:14:28] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[18:14:53] <andypugh> So, you stand more chance than me of compiling
[18:15:34] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[18:15:39] <GammaX-Shop|2> i guess thats a good thing
[18:19:35] <andypugh> I seem to lack "LIBTOOL" so can't compile libmodbus.
[18:19:44] <andypugh> How do you get round that?
[18:22:19] <GammaX-Shop|2> I just downloaded source, did a./configure make && make install
[18:24:04] <GammaX-Shop|2> oh and then ldconfig
[18:28:17] <andypugh> I needed to install libtool
[18:28:29] <GammaX-Shop|2> interesting
[18:32:23] <GammaX-Shop|2> what are you thinking?
[18:33:12] <andypugh> I am wondering if you can use mb2hal
[18:37:19] <GammaX-Shop|2> also interesting...
[18:37:54] <andypugh> There is a modbus.c and modbus.h in the LinuxCNC distribution.
[18:39:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> ok
[18:50:53] <andypugh> What are you actually wanting to comtrol?
[18:52:29] <GammaX-Shop|2> all functions of the vfd
[18:52:38] <GammaX-Shop|2> spindle speed.... reverse forward...
[18:52:48] <GammaX-Shop|2> braking force. etc
[18:56:57] <andypugh> What VFD?
[18:57:54] <GammaX-Shop|2> hitachi sj200 revision 2.
[18:59:09] <andypugh> Have you seen:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/9617
[19:00:22] <GammaX-Shop|2> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/sj200rtu-ft/
[19:01:44] <GammaX-Shop|2> thats a diff modeml
[19:01:54] <GammaX-Shop|2> model* wj i have sj
[19:03:06] <andypugh> Yes, but it might be easier to modify a working .comp (and you know you can compile those)
[19:03:07] <andypugh> https://github.com/OKComputers/linuxcnc/blob/12583c9325a05ab41861784bfd589446cc6ae47e/src/hal/user_comps/wj200_vfd/wj200_vfd.comp
[19:04:04] <generic_nick|2> yay, mill is up and running.
[19:04:50] <GammaX-Shop|2> check that link i sent
[19:05:02] <GammaX-Shop|2> apparently that guy used that .c and the sub make file and that was it I believe.....
[19:05:33] <GammaX-Shop|2> I already have my pins in hal running...
[19:05:51] <andypugh> Which guy?
[19:05:56] <GammaX-Shop|2> I just need to setup the serial port as the link.
[19:06:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> Frank Tkalcevic
[19:06:45] <andypugh> But when?
[19:06:49] <GammaX-Shop|2> I just never heard of a submakefile so I dont know what to do with it
[19:07:12] <GammaX-Shop|2> 2011
[19:09:09] <andypugh> I have a feeling that it is easier now, that there is modbus support already in LinuxCNC
[19:09:36] <GammaX-Shop|2> where is it located at?
[19:09:45] <GammaX-Shop|2> to define things?
[19:09:53] <andypugh> I have no idea.
[19:10:10] <Valen> hey andypugh where did you get the motors you used in that Z axis up/down brushless demo on the youtubes?
[19:10:27] <andypugh> eBay (from Thailand)
[19:13:43] <Valen> what wattage?
[19:13:55] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=rapidsyn&_lncat=0&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1&_nkw=23bls&_sacat=0
[19:14:08] <Valen> i cant seem to find anything less than a like $500
[19:14:46] <andypugh> search for Rapidsyn. I am sure a lot of those are not actually steppers at all. Too many wires.
[19:15:04] <Tom_itx> that page says classic ladder has modbus builtin
[19:15:10] <Tom_itx> not that it would help you
[19:15:58] <GammaX-Shop|2> yeah im trying to stray from classic ladder
[19:16:11] <Tom_itx> is it a pita?
[19:16:17] <Tom_itx> i've never tried it yet
[19:18:03] <GammaX-Shop|2> not sure to be honest..
[19:18:25] <GammaX-Shop|2> I already got a driver... just need to get linuxcnc to link the pins to the serial port...
[19:19:54] <GammaX-Shop|2> the drivers installed actually
[19:24:08] <Valen> trying to spec out the motors for out gantry mill/router thing
[19:24:32] <Valen> I'm thinking a size 23 servo is going to be about the same ballpark as a size 34 stepper?
[19:24:41] <Valen> with some additional gearing
[19:24:59] <Valen> looking at the torque vs speed curves on the steppers
[19:25:05] <Valen> thaughts?
[19:25:49] <GammaX-Shop|2> how big of a machine?
[19:26:03] <Valen> 600x1200 work area
[19:26:10] <andypugh> GammaX-Shop|2: If you look here:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/drivers/VFS11.html
[19:26:12] <Valen> we want good acceleration mainly
[19:26:41] <andypugh> That modbus driver just connects _itself_ to the serial port, or to a TCP port.
[19:27:15] <andypugh> I suspect that the same is true of gs2_vfd and wj200_vfd
[19:27:24] <GammaX-Shop|2> I agree
[19:28:15] <GammaX-Shop|2> the comp file is already installed... just need to basicly connect it to a serial port..
[19:28:20] <andypugh> The HAL example on that page is very brief, so it looks like there is not a lot to it, when done that way.
[19:30:23] <Valen> tossing up between NEMA 34 906 oz-inSteppper Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $994.26 and NEMA 23 Servo Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $1180.84 ( 350 oz-in Peak 60V/20A)
[19:30:33] <andypugh> So you "just" need to do the hard part, that none of us have a clue about?
[19:30:33] <Valen> from
http://www.kelinginc.net
[19:30:53] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[19:31:32] <andypugh> Why not comp --install that WJ200 driver, and see if it just happens to work?
[19:33:04] <GammaX-Shop|2> if it doesnt will it jack my shit up?
[19:33:51] <andypugh> I am not sure what you are asking.
[19:34:29] <Valen> it may insult your mother
[20:31:36] <PetefromTn> Evening gentlemen....
[20:35:05] <PetefromTn> Perhaps not.
[20:35:54] <eric_unterhause1> irc etiquette says greetings from 112 people is not likely to be well received
[20:41:09] <Valen> perhaps he just loves talking to strangers
[20:41:29] <PetefromTn> This thing on?
[20:41:36] <Valen> nope
[20:41:42] <PetefromTn> Hehe
[20:42:04] <eric_unterhause1> I like talking to strangers, but I don't expect acknowledgement unless I say something interesting
[20:42:12] <PetefromTn> Evening fellas
[20:42:37] <Valen> I would expect at least one femininist to rip his nuts off in a group this size
[20:42:55] <PetefromTn> Okay evening ladies
[20:43:21] <Valen> now you sound like an army person insulting his troops best case, or a troll worst case ;-P
[20:43:25] <eric_unterhause1> this is such a sausage-fest
[20:43:49] <eric_unterhause1> not sure I'm aware of any female involvement
[20:43:57] <Valen> my wife is involved
[20:44:08] <Valen> in that she likes the things i make on the mill for her....
[20:44:08] <eric_unterhause1> exception that proves the rule
[20:44:15] <eric_unterhause1> I've also met Jon Elson's wife
[20:44:41] * Tom_itx sits down to a real meet n greet
[20:45:01] <Valen> isnt there some big emc get together going on atm?
[20:45:09] <Tom_itx> ?
[20:45:12] <Tom_itx> not yet
[20:45:17] <Tom_itx> that i'm aware of
[20:45:33] <Tom_itx> are you talkin about the fest?
[20:45:47] <Valen> probably
[20:46:14] <Tom_itx> probably good his connection isn't that stable
[20:46:24] <Tom_itx> that's next month
[20:46:32] <gammax-Laptop1> I realy wish I could hit a button and my vfd just work
[20:46:35] <eric_unterhause1> no, he just says hi that many more times
[20:47:04] <eric_unterhause1> I have to plug mine in and it just works
[20:47:27] <gammax-Laptop1> I envy you
[20:47:50] <eric_unterhause1> it had been smashed so I got a good deal (?)
[20:47:53] <Valen> does it have buttons on the front you can use?
[20:47:59] <Valen> ie make sure its working?
[20:48:12] <Valen> also have you tried just talking serial to it outside EMC
[20:48:13] <Tom_itx> gammax-Laptop1, are you just trying to get it to estop if it faults?
[20:48:13] <eric_unterhause1> it has a plug-in 'programmer'
[20:48:20] <Tom_itx> or get the whole thing working
[20:48:44] <PetefromTn> Trying to chat on my smartphone sitting out back by the fire pit but I keep getting bumped offline.
[20:48:44] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1: what brand vfd?
[20:49:03] <eric_unterhause1> PetefromTn we noticed
[20:49:22] <eric_unterhause1> it's a conspiracy
[20:49:26] <Tom_itx> not so smart ehh?
[20:49:51] <Valen> rofl
[20:50:29] <Tom_itx> are those chinese vfd's hard to get hooked up and working?
[20:50:37] <eric_unterhause1> too many "screwed up thing" convos going on at once
[20:50:43] <Valen> dunno about modbus connection
[20:50:47] <Tom_itx> me either
[20:50:52] <Valen> but easy to plug in and drive from the buttons on the front
[20:50:59] <eric_unterhause1> you would think a chinese vfd would be simplicity itself
[20:51:05] <Valen> modbus connection involves soldering an IC onto it ;->
[20:51:23] <Tom_itx> hmm?
[20:51:31] <Tom_itx> onto what?
[20:51:38] <gammax-Laptop1> Its a hitcachi sj200
[20:51:40] <eric_unterhause1> da innards
[20:51:48] <Valen> at least the one we got, the rs485 converter isn't on the PCB in the VFD
[20:51:49] <Tom_itx> is that so hard?
[20:52:12] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1: that's yer problem, you should have gotten a hitachi sj200
[20:52:18] <Valen> not too bad, SO8
[20:52:31] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, I hate u lol
[20:52:59] <gammax-Laptop1> anybody use large 1" endmills?
[20:53:05] <Tom_itx> not anymore
[20:53:15] <Tom_itx> and at the time, that wasn't large
[20:53:15] <gammax-Laptop1> I have some I want to barter with
[20:53:18] <eric_unterhause1> been a while since I used anything that big
[20:53:40] <Tom_itx> nice big roughing em
[20:53:42] <gammax-Laptop1> all carbide...
[20:54:17] <gammax-Laptop1> will trade for some mesa products!
[20:56:21] <r00t4rd3d> no one wants your burn up bits
[20:56:44] <Tom_itx> carbide likes to run hot
[20:57:29] <gammax-Laptop1> you guys dont use carbide?
[20:57:45] <r00t4rd3d> i do
[20:57:49] <Tom_itx> sure i do
[20:57:59] <Tom_itx> i don't need anything that big anymore
[20:58:20] <r00t4rd3d> wish i had a machine that could run a 1" bit
[20:58:37] <Tom_itx> cat40 50 will pretty well
[20:58:43] <Valen> use a 1/4 mill, and go 4x as fast
[20:59:15] <Tom_itx> they don't 'sing' as loud as the small ones
[20:59:33] <Tom_itx> they just shake the building
[21:01:07] <gammax-Laptop1> lol
[21:01:38] <Tom_itx> why are you gettin rid of em?
[21:01:48] <gammax-Laptop1> no need for em
[21:01:53] <gammax-Laptop1> cant put them in my machine
[21:02:30] <Tom_itx> much bigger than that and you start using insert cutters
[21:02:34] <Tom_itx> not practical
[21:02:54] <PetefromTn> what
[21:03:00] <PetefromTn> are
[21:03:01] <PetefromTn> we
[21:03:04] <PetefromTn> talking
[21:03:05] <PetefromTn> about
[21:03:09] <PetefromTn> LOL
[21:03:16] <gammax-Laptop1> SHUT
[21:03:17] <gammax-Laptop1> YOUR
[21:03:19] <gammax-Laptop1> FACE
[21:03:25] <PetefromTn> EAT
[21:03:28] <PetefromTn> MY
[21:03:31] <PetefromTn> SHORTS
[21:03:31] <gammax-Laptop1> lol
[21:03:47] <gammax-Laptop1> thought shorts was gonna be replaced with D*ck
[21:04:08] <PetefromTn> hey I thought this was a gentlemans forum..
[21:04:15] <Valen> yah i wouldn't use solid carbide for much more than half inch
[21:04:39] <r00t4rd3d> i mostly use 1/8 ones
[21:04:41] <Valen> too expensive when you drive them through a hold down screw instead of the MDF
[21:04:44] <Tom_itx> we had some 3" carbide insert drills
[21:05:48] <Tom_itx> r00t4rd3d what are you paying for your .125 cutters?
[21:06:08] <Tom_itx> i'm gettin a couple ballnose local but he was out of stock
[21:06:19] <gammax-Laptop1> where do you guys buy your carbide bits from?
[21:06:28] <r00t4rd3d> 10 bucks
[21:06:32] <Tom_itx> sandvik or valenite
[21:06:40] <PetefromTn> I mostly get mine from Frank Mari.
[21:06:42] <gammax-Laptop1> I only have like 2 ball mills
[21:06:48] <Tom_itx> r00t4rd3d for 1/8 ball?
[21:06:51] <gammax-Laptop1> and like 80-90 3 fluters...
[21:06:57] <r00t4rd3d> nah endmill
[21:06:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbide-Router-Bit-3-20mm-125-1-8-Shanks-NEW-Solid-Carbide-CNC-PCB-/160816395593?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2571677549
[21:07:03] <r00t4rd3d> them things
[21:07:22] <Tom_itx> pcb router bits?
[21:07:39] <r00t4rd3d> i cut oak with them
[21:07:57] <Tom_itx> are those 4 flute?
[21:08:20] <Tom_itx> 5
[21:08:24] <Tom_itx> it looks like
[21:08:24] <r00t4rd3d> Great for PC Boards, Plastics, Wood, Soft Metals, etc.
[21:08:33] <Tom_itx> those are pcb router bits
[21:08:49] <r00t4rd3d> they cut hardwood great
[21:08:59] <r00t4rd3d> ive purpleheart with them also
[21:09:03] <r00t4rd3d> cut^
[21:09:42] <r00t4rd3d> and that stuff is super hardwood
[21:09:49] <gammax-Laptop1> I cut some pine 2x4's with my 3/4 3 flute carbde bit great the other day!
[21:10:01] <Tom_itx> i think local was about $7 for regular ones
[21:10:07] <r00t4rd3d> i dont mess with that cheap stuff
[21:10:14] <r00t4rd3d> pine
[21:10:39] <gammax-Laptop1> my first test cut
[21:10:56] <r00t4rd3d> well it should have been in mahogany
[21:11:47] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1 u sure that your vfd is actually listening?
[21:12:06] <eric_unterhause1> some industrial stuff requires external power
[21:12:06] <r00t4rd3d> he called it names and it called them right back
[21:12:09] <Valen> http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/photos-you-really-need-to-look-at-to-understand is pretty funny
[21:12:28] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, listening on modbus?
[21:15:48] <eric_unterhause1> I assume that's what you are trying to do
[21:15:58] <eric_unterhause1> pushadabutton works, right?
[21:17:47] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, I need to get linuxcnc to recognize the halpins to work over rs485
[21:18:20] <eric_unterhause1> do you have alternate ways to talk to it that work?
[21:18:32] <gammax-Laptop1> the control board attached to it
[21:20:35] <eric_unterhause1> I was wondering about alternative programs
[21:21:03] <eric_unterhause1> I find it really hard to write software that talks over serial without seeing _something_ coming over the lines beforehand
[21:21:30] <gammax-Laptop1> not tracking u siorry lol
[21:23:40] <eric_unterhause1> can you try libmodbus or similar to talk to it on vanilla linux?
[21:23:59] <gammax-Laptop1> i already have libmodbus isntalled on my current build
[21:24:23] <eric_unterhause1> I'm typing really slowly hoping you can figure out my question
[21:24:31] <eric_unterhause1> did libmodbus talk to it?
[21:24:49] <Tom_itx> Valen, that wasn't makerfair you were thinking of was it?
[21:24:57] <gammax-Laptop1> nothing has talked to it... because it doesnt know how to
[21:25:01] <Tom_itx> that may be this week
[21:25:03] <gammax-Laptop1> its not linked via serial yet
[21:25:05] <Valen> Tom_itx: no idea
[21:25:08] <eric_unterhause1> HIW
[21:25:08] <Valen> doesn't matter
[21:25:21] <eric_unterhause1> hardware something something
[21:25:24] <Tom_itx> i just remembered rue was going to that
[21:26:14] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1 I just think that talking to it on generic linux is probably hard enough, and will help you with hal module
[21:27:00] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, i think im gonna try mb2hal
[21:36:38] <RyanS> Valen do you have any pictures of a cnc machine you built from scratch?, Would love to see
[21:37:01] <Valen> not yet
[21:37:54] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_hm45.html is stuff we have used on our current mill
[21:41:14] <RyanS> hmm so the hm45 is not really that great?
[21:41:47] <Valen> i haven't heard anybody singing the praises of any chinese mill
[21:42:40] <PetefromTn> do any of you guys successfully link to these CNCzone items? I cannot get on there at all lately and I am not sure why.
[21:42:51] <RyanS> But surely for the cost they are somewhat capable ?
[21:43:01] <Tom_itx> works fine for me
[21:43:24] <PetefromTn> I could not even get on there from my Cellphone...
[21:44:30] <Valen> on ours one of the gibb screws wasnt even tapped all the way through
[21:44:38] <Valen> you couldn't tighten the Z axis
[21:45:32] <Tom_itx> would a heater core be a big enough spindle cooler?
[21:45:55] <Valen> probably, though it depends on how hard you push it
[21:46:13] <RyanS> those machines are clones of a Taiwanese brand right?
[21:46:29] <Valen> the anti-backlash nuts from the factory just had a cut in the end of it, you crushed the nut with the screw
[21:46:39] <Valen> so it got harder to turn, it just didn't do anything about the backlash
[21:47:10] <Valen> now I can tune the PID loop (with ballscrews) in well at one point in the table and it will oscillate at another spot
[21:47:32] <Valen> so yeah, I'm not too impressed
[21:48:53] <gammax-Laptop1> RyanS, I have a pm45cnc version and like it very much
[21:50:16] <RyanS> so thos spindles use a VFD to control the RPM as opposed to a gearbox, does that sacrifice torque ?
[21:50:40] <Valen> eh, somewhat
[21:50:48] <Valen> but you just use a smaller cutter at higher RPM
[21:50:56] <gammax-Laptop1> RyanS, the pm45cnc has a vfd with a gearbox, I will be selling belt drives here shortly
[21:51:49] <RyanS> ok, it seems like all the machining centres of these days have direct drive spindles?
[21:52:01] <Valen> the bigger ones do at least
[21:53:25] <RyanS> I guess if you have a 20kw motor you don't even need to worry about torque too much
[21:55:09] <Valen> not too much ;->
[21:55:30] <Valen> higher speeds are easier to get higher powers
[21:57:16] <RyanS> Is it mainly to get high-speed or the more power means deeper cuts, larger tools et cetera .... A combination of all three I guess?
[21:58:12] <Valen> its the metal removal rate
[21:58:12] <Tom_itx> that depends on what the rest of the machine was designed for as well
[22:00:21] <toastydeath> RyanS, the torque on a 20kw spindle is actually pretty low
[22:00:50] <toastydeath> for direct drive
[22:01:13] <gammax-Laptop1> belt drive baby!
[22:01:32] <toastydeath> the whole idea is to use heat resistant tooling, use light cuts, and move very fast
[22:01:45] <RyanS> really? So those machines centres are more about speed than torque ?
[22:01:54] <toastydeath> cnc in general is now about speed vs torque
[22:02:01] <toastydeath> speed over torque, rather.
[22:02:07] <Tom_itx> it depends what you're buying them to cut
[22:02:12] <Valen> torque is hard, relativley speaking
[22:02:24] <Tom_itx> if you plan to cut alot of steel etc you need more torque
[22:02:26] <Valen> basically torque = amps, amps = heat and expensive electronics
[22:02:28] <toastydeath> machinists also are uncomfortable with high torque machines
[22:02:29] <ReadError> who here was the one that ordered PCBs from dorkbotpdx ?
[22:02:41] <ReadError> I remember it was a big wood machine
[22:02:45] <Tom_itx> ReadError, i have used them
[22:02:46] <toastydeath> there are lathes that will take a 1/8" chip, 5" depth of cut
[22:02:48] <Tom_itx> not lately
[22:02:57] <toastydeath> that's essentally producing sheet metal
[22:03:00] <Valen> but a 20Kw spindle will push a 100 fly cutter just fine still ;->
[22:03:18] <ReadError> Tom_itx: hows the quality?
[22:03:22] <toastydeath> if you put a big facemill on a 20kw spindle, you might stop it.
[22:03:35] <Tom_itx> ReadError, they were using a US MFG so pretty good
[22:03:35] <toastydeath> i've stopped a 10kw spindle with a 4" facemill
[22:03:54] <ReadError> oh did they switch to china?
[22:03:55] <Valen> of course you *can* but you can still take a decent cut with it
[22:04:07] <Tom_itx> i don't know, i haven't used them lately
[22:04:14] <RyanS> I suppose all the videos I have seen of CNC they are never hogging out huge amounts of metal
[22:04:16] <Tom_itx> did you need several or just one or two?
[22:04:26] <Valen> thing is you would be using carbide and running at 4X the speed you used to with HSS
[22:04:29] <toastydeath> sure, the only reason i brought it up is because most people have never actually put a machine to a heavy cut before
[22:04:35] <Tom_itx> i've been getting mine from capnkernel in #avr lately
[22:04:49] <ReadError> Tom_itx: ive used itead, they are cheap but the silkscreen is kinda crappy
[22:04:57] <Tom_itx> his are ok
[22:05:05] <ReadError> hes in the USA?
[22:05:07] <Tom_itx> no
[22:05:09] <Tom_itx> china
[22:05:17] <Tom_itx> he commutes from australia
[22:05:35] <Tom_itx> join #hackvana and ask him
[22:05:44] <ReadError> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Apr%2026%2C%209%2036%2041%20PM.jpg
[22:05:48] <ReadError> those are the last ones i got
[22:06:01] <Valen> the rest of our mill lags behind the spindle
[22:06:18] <Valen> the chinese spindle isn't that crash hot either
[22:06:30] <Valen> they put a matched pair of angular contact bearings in
[22:06:38] <Valen> thing is they were orientated the same way
[22:06:48] <ReadError> which I guess for like $9 for 10, isnt a bad deal
[22:06:55] <ReadError> i was just looking for something domestic
[22:06:56] <Tom_itx> no
[22:07:01] <Tom_itx> oh why?
[22:07:12] <ReadError> speed
[22:07:17] <Tom_itx> you're stuck with purple with them ya know
[22:07:21] <ReadError> yea
[22:07:34] <Valen> hackvana can do rapid turn
[22:07:40] <ReadError> i guess itead isnt that slow, 10 days from order to arrival with UPS
[22:07:50] <Valen> I think it took like 8 days or so with express shipping
[22:07:53] <ReadError> but the soldermask is kinda crap
[22:08:01] <Valen> 5 days for pcb fab 2-3 for shipping
[22:08:08] <Tom_itx> yeah i've been happy with hackvana
[22:08:10] <Valen> to australia
[22:08:17] <Tom_itx> i didn't mind waiting
[22:08:28] <Tom_itx> so i just used the regular post
[22:08:33] <Valen> how long was it?
[22:09:02] <Tom_itx> i don't remember off hand
[22:09:13] <Tom_itx> probably 4 weeks
[22:09:17] <Valen> also why wont my attiny wake up
[22:09:27] <Tom_itx> shake it harder
[22:09:31] <Valen> PCMSK1 |= (1 << PCINT8); //turn interrupts on for pin b0/pcint8
[22:09:31] <Valen> sleep_mode();
[22:09:36] <Valen> and its dead bro
[22:09:41] <Tom_itx> i haven't messed with sleep mode much
[22:09:44] * Valen growls at it
[22:09:56] * Valen threatens it with a bbq lighter
[22:28:18] <RyanS> Which manufacturers I wonder make top quality linear actuators.. I've about five Linak ones fail within the last couple of years... Plastic junk
[22:29:14] <RyanS> I think wheelchair manufacturers use student engineers to design their products :p
[22:36:31] <Valen> probably
[22:39:30] <RyanS> When you say 'we' and your machine build article. Are you building with a group of ppls?
[22:40:42] <L84Supper> vs what? The Queens we? :)
[22:42:09] <RyanS> In your article I should say
[22:42:36] <RyanS> thou?
[22:47:03] <Valen> my father and myself
[22:47:10] <RyanS> ah
[22:48:52] <RyanS> My old man wants to buy a cheap milling machine I said don't waste your money, he thinks 1mm is pretty accurate tolerance :p
[22:49:15] <Valen> well in that case a cheap one will do ;->
[22:49:48] <RyanS> I don't think that's even the Woodwork tolerance
[22:52:34] <toastydeath> i think i can hit that with a hacksaw
[22:52:42] <toastydeath> and a steady eye
[22:53:51] <RyanS> do pedantic people make good machinists?
[22:54:10] <RyanS> I would probably make a good machinist
[22:54:32] <eric_unterhause1> pedantry probably a disqualification for anything
[22:55:24] <RyanS> Run that by me again
[22:55:41] <RyanS> metrology perhaps
[22:55:43] <eric_unterhause1> see what I mean?
[22:56:21] <RyanS> I don't, I just don't understand what you said :)
[22:56:57] <eric_unterhause1> I'm a part-time metrologist
[22:58:18] <RyanS> It certainly couldn't harm to be a little pedantic in that line of work?
[23:00:00] <eric_unterhause1> one of the meanings of pedantic is "meticulous," but that's not what most people think of when they hear the word
[23:02:37] <RyanS> In that case I guess a meticulous person would make a good machinist
[23:03:45] <Valen> depends on what you mean by "good" too
[23:03:59] <eric_unterhause1> wouldn't know, never met a meticulous machinist
[23:04:16] <Valen> if you are a jobbing shop, if its in the spec its good, theres no point getting a mirror finish on the boat anchor points
[23:05:00] <RyanS> An aerospace parts manufacturer :)
[23:05:05] <Valen> again
[23:05:09] <Valen> meet the spec
[23:05:33] <Valen> knowing what matters is important
[23:05:45] <eric_unterhause1> I'd like to meet a machinist that could explain gdt&e to me
[23:06:14] <Valen> ?
[23:06:36] <Valen> meticulous is something I'd want in a welder
[23:06:48] <eric_unterhause1> geometric dimensioning tolerancing and something that starts with an e
[23:06:53] <Valen> lol
[23:07:11] <eric_unterhause1> it's a rational way of doing tolerancing
[23:07:36] <eric_unterhause1> probably need a good draftsman instead
[23:08:03] <eric_unterhause1> the engineers that try to explain it are too pedantic
[23:09:02] <RyanS> Is that true that MIG welding is easier than stick welding .. 'Idiot proof' some claim?
[23:09:17] <eric_unterhause1> any idiot can lay a good bead with MIG
[23:09:32] <eric_unterhause1> and then the idiot's bead breaks later
[23:10:07] <eric_unterhause1> if there is an idiot involved, I definitely prefer stick
[23:10:16] <eric_unterhause1> that way I know not to get out of the boat
[23:10:58] <RyanS> Can you actually weld stainless somewhat okay with a stick welder?
[23:11:08] <eric_unterhause1> I don't think you can
[23:11:14] <eric_unterhause1> but I'm not sure
[23:11:21] <Valen> if you don't do a lot of welding get a TIG
[23:11:37] <Valen> also if you weld lots of different things
[23:11:51] <eric_unterhause1> I want a TIG
[23:11:51] <Valen> mig is good for production
[23:12:12] <RyanS> tig requires the most skill though?
[23:12:14] <eric_unterhause1> I do gas welding, and if I had bigger tanks/torch I would probably be happy with that for household stuff
[23:12:47] <eric_unterhause1> RyanS, what are you making?
[23:14:39] <r00t4rd3d> car battery, jumper cables and some sticks
[23:14:45] <Valen> I'd say tig needs less skill to get a better end result as you can try again ;->
[23:15:03] <Valen> IE if the amps are a bit low you can just sit there a bit longer etc
[23:15:30] <Valen> you don't need to faf about with getting all the settings sorted
[23:15:46] <RyanS> . Actually I had stainless steel tube fittings tigged/.... Building a still.. I went overboard with the design and it still isn't finished
[23:16:17] <ReadError> apparently to be a good machinist you need to stop eating
[23:16:18] <RyanS> Problems with the heating element controller
[23:16:19] <ReadError> seen it in a movie
[23:17:29] <RyanS> lose your thumb and then have to have your big toe grafted in its place
[23:19:44] <eric_unterhause1> famous metrologist blew his thumb off when he was a kid and they spliced his big toe in its place
[23:20:24] <eric_unterhause1> of course, famous metrologist is probably an impossible thing
[23:20:57] <RyanS> Got to be careful how you wield those deadly calipers
[23:21:15] <RyanS> Sorry that's a handyman I meant micrometrer
[23:25:51] <RyanS> awesome .. Robot tig welding
http://vimeo.com/59907378
[23:26:09] <RyanS> Beware of the lame music
[23:28:29] <RootB> hello linux cnca nyone here with diptracer experience?
[23:28:37] <eric_unterhause1> first robot welder I saw was 20+ years ago. They could never convince the humans to weld the seam in the right place
[23:30:08] <RyanS> How on earth do they program welding robots.
[23:30:23] <eric_unterhause1> teaching pendants?
[23:30:31] <eric_unterhause1> I had a welding robot
[23:30:42] <eric_unterhause1> but I didn't have enough power to start it up
[23:31:09] <RyanS> yeh but you essentially drive the robot manually to teach it
[23:31:14] <eric_unterhause1> yes
[23:31:25] <eric_unterhause1> you can program it other ways
[23:31:55] <RyanS> They surely must use cam software these days
[23:32:01] <eric_unterhause1> I'm sure
[23:32:48] <RyanS> I guess in that case it's no different to 5 axis milling
[23:33:07] <eric_unterhause1> striking an arc is probably somewhat specialized
[23:33:25] <eric_unterhause1> I'm trying to figure out how to do edm right now
[23:33:53] <Valen> HV arc starter, strike ALL THE ARCS
[23:34:02] <RyanS> They don't need to strike an arc with mig or tig
[23:34:32] <eric_unterhause1> they don't need to scratch start the arc
[23:35:12] <Valen> scratch starting tig is bad, you contaminate the electrode by default
[23:35:33] <Valen> mig it doesn't matter if you contact the job by definition ;->
[23:36:41] <eric_unterhause1> I would guess there is some arc starting magic for welding, but I don't know for sure
[23:36:49] <eric_unterhause1> welding robots I mean
[23:36:54] <Valen> yeah, its called a high voltage starter
[23:37:06] <Valen> same thing regular tig torches (that don't suck) have
[23:37:17] <RyanS> cool you can get an automatice rod feeder for human tig
[23:37:30] <Valen> good ones have a high frequency HV start that runs full time
[23:37:33] <RyanS> That's cheating
[23:37:34] <Valen> makes the arc smoother
[23:38:27] <RyanS> You can't actually get argon in Australia without renting the gas bottles at huge cost?
[23:38:46] <Valen> there is one outfit that you can *buy* the bottle off
[23:38:52] <Valen> then swap them over as usual
[23:38:52] <eric_unterhause1> if I rented the bottles in austrailia, it would be a huge cost
[23:38:53] <Valen> no rental
[23:39:11] <Valen> we were without argon for ages because of that
[23:39:20] <Valen> now we have an argon tank, lasts us ages
[23:39:51] <eric_unterhause1> my local shop is really weird about selling bottles, but I've never needed argon
[23:39:56] <RyanS> What is the deal.. they just have a monopoly so they force you to rent just because they can?
[23:40:02] <Valen> basically
[23:40:15] <Valen> they will tell you all sorts of BS about it being illegal
[23:40:18] <eric_unterhause1> I asked if I could rent oxy/acetylene, "no"
[23:40:34] <eric_unterhause1> so I bought
[23:42:18] <RyanS> I wonder if those LPG torches are any good .. Then you can use a barbecue bottle .... Model steam engine people use them
[23:42:33] <eric_unterhause1> lpg/air?
[23:42:54] <eric_unterhause1> I have considered getting lpg with an oxygen concentrator, that's what the glassblowing people use
[23:43:18] <eric_unterhause1> only problem is you have to kill someone's granny to get the concentrator
[23:43:34] <RyanS> So the same trap with renting oxygen?
[23:43:53] <eric_unterhause1> not in the U.S., you can buy the concentrators for around $300 or so
[23:44:03] <RyanS> Just buy one from a vet supplier
[23:44:26] <eric_unterhause1> there is a steady supply from the medical market
[23:44:38] <eric_unterhause1> used ones can't be used for humans, apparently
[23:45:29] <RyanS> I use a ventilator... I should tell them that I want oxygen too ,just because,
[23:46:17] <Valen> you should get liquid O2, then make rockets
[23:47:46] <RyanS> I wonder if you could tig weld copper..... It's similar to brazing
[23:48:54] <eric_unterhause1> I know there is some kind of bronze filler for tig, not sure about copper
[23:49:18] <eric_unterhause1> typically use silver for that I think
[23:50:49] <RyanS> managed to get a soft soldering working pretty good with mapp
[23:51:15] <RyanS> However I read that you don't need flux for silver soldiering.... Maybe that's why it's not working
[23:51:40] <Valen> flux all the things
[23:52:29] <RyanS> For brazing you need a flux whic doesn't boil off until really high temperature?
[23:52:43] <RyanS> The hardware shop only has crappy flux
