#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-05-13

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[00:10:35] * fragalot thinks he's going to sell his reprap & build a bigger one
[00:43:09] <ssi> hrm
[00:58:22] <ssi> is there any mechanism that can transmit power 90 degrees with no backlash, suitable for like a mill servo drive system?
[01:01:48] <toastydeath> hydraulics
[01:02:08] <ssi> heh that'd be a bit overkill :)
[01:59:23] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:35:19] <Valen> ssi: compton coupling?
[02:35:23] <Valen> i think its called
[02:35:43] <Valen> thompson coupling
[02:37:29] <Valen> a pair of those might net you 90 degrees
[02:38:18] <Valen> ok perhaps way more
[02:38:21] <Valen> http://www.thompsoncouplings.com/High-RPM-and-Angle-Couplings/pl.php
[09:34:31] <ssi> too quiet in here!
[09:36:29] <JT-Shop> you get your thc to work?
[09:36:34] <ssi> no :/
[09:57:00] <pcw_home> ssi: what THC type?
[10:23:35] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[10:35:19] <ssi> pcw_home: LCTHC, using the thcud component jt wrote
[10:35:37] <ssi> I just haven't figured out the magic of configuring it in hal yet
[10:35:52] <IchGuckLive> easy ssi
[10:36:34] <pcw_home> OK if it was THCAD and G540 you need to use the divider (G540 inputs wont do 1 MHz)
[10:36:50] <ssi> ah
[10:39:37] <IchGuckLive> ssi querry came to you !
[10:39:54] <ssi> IchGuckLive: thanks!
[10:39:59] <IchGuckLive> NP
[10:40:18] <ssi> what do you have tied to thcud.enable?
[10:41:48] <IchGuckLive> you can do it to your pycvp or you can also set this as standard
[10:42:08] <IchGuckLive> or even by Fire the torch enable it
[10:43:28] <ssi> I was trying to do something fancy like tie it to arc-ok
[10:44:00] <IchGuckLive> no
[10:44:07] <IchGuckLive> ark ok is not a good idee
[10:44:51] <IchGuckLive> if you fire the tourch you are at pirce hight ? or at cutting height
[10:45:02] <IchGuckLive> with the hypertherm i use different
[10:45:14] <IchGuckLive> on the S-plasma i use the same
[10:45:56] <IchGuckLive> ssi: can we discuss later im off work now and back at 19:00 MESZ
[10:46:17] <IchGuckLive> < By
[10:52:11] <Nick001-Shop> pcw_home: Do you have info on using the 7i52S to drive steppers with an encoder or linear scale?
[10:55:07] <pcw_home> Its basically setup like a normal servo system except the PID component output
[10:55:09] <pcw_home> drives the stepgens velocity command (stepgen must be set to operate in velocity mode)
[10:55:40] <ssi> I'm planning to re-do my small lathe and add encoders to the steppers
[10:55:50] <ssi> mostly because I wanted to use their index for more repeatable homing
[10:56:02] <ssi> but closing the position loop could be nice too
[10:56:30] <ssi> I made these: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJxJMQICEAAO_GV.jpg:large
[10:56:41] <ssi> encoder mounts for nema23
[10:57:42] <Tom_itx> for stepper system?
[10:57:44] <ssi> yea
[10:58:01] <jdh> to what end?
[10:58:13] <jdh> better stepper homing?
[10:58:14] <ssi> pretty sure I stated that above
[10:58:19] <ssi> yes
[10:58:35] <jdh> oh, one of the problems with tiny irc windows :)
[10:59:20] <ssi> repeatable homing is super critical on a lathe
[10:59:33] <ssi> on X axis especially
[10:59:42] <ssi> otherwise you have to cut, measure, adjust touchoff every time
[11:01:17] <ssi> my small lathe was the first mesa machine I built, and I used a 7i43, and built a breakout on perfboard
[11:01:25] <ssi> I want to redo it with mesa breakouts
[11:03:16] <Loetmichel> g'day
[11:03:45] <pcw_home> to close the position loop with step motors you usually want pretty high gearing or ustep ratio
[11:04:18] <ssi> why's that?
[11:04:34] <ssi> I don't know offhand what the ustep on my drives is, but the motors are direct coupled
[11:06:03] <pcw_home> you want to be able to make small steps in the position so the
[11:06:05] <pcw_home> PID loop has at least an approximately linear range to run in
[11:06:19] <ssi> I see
[11:06:58] <ssi> well I want the encoders for the index at the very least, and it's worth playing with closing the loop, but if it doesn't work out it's not the end of the world
[11:07:24] <ssi> pcw_home: the web site says 7i76 can do two encoders on field IO for MPG, but I can't find anything in the manual about it... would they be suitable for axis encoders?
[11:07:33] <pcw_home> you are approximating a velocity mode servo, position steps don't fit this model very well)
[11:08:22] <pcw_home> They are mainly for MPGs (low maximum speed, no index)
[11:08:40] <ssi> that's what I was afraid of
[11:08:51] <pcw_home> also default is X1 mode
[11:09:06] <ssi> maybe I'll just suck it up and move that machine to servos :)
[11:09:22] <pcw_home> you can alway use encoders on the other 5I25 connector
[11:09:28] <pcw_home> always
[11:09:47] <ssi> which breakout would be most suitable for them?
[11:09:51] <ssi> a 7i77? or is there something better
[11:09:53] <pcw_home> or use a 7I85S/7I84 combo instead of a 7I76
[11:10:20] <pcw_home> for servos or steppers with feedback?
[11:10:46] <ssi> steppers with feedback
[11:10:57] <ssi> I guess the 7i85
[11:11:02] <pcw_home> probably 7I85S
[11:11:33] <ssi> what's the S designate?
[11:11:37] <pcw_home> 4 step/dir 4 encoders 1 RS-422 expansion port
[11:11:45] <pcw_home> Step/dir
[11:11:53] <ssi> ohh
[11:12:04] <pcw_home> although there are PWM/Dir versions as well
[11:12:17] <ssi> you make too much neat stuff
[11:12:22] <ssi> I can't keep it all straight :D
[11:12:37] <pcw_home> (5I25/6I25 firmware versions I should say)
[11:13:31] <ssi> so as far as hardware differences between '85 and '85S
[11:13:44] <ssi> looks like '85 is 5 rs422, and '85S is 8 differential
[11:14:29] <ssi> I see ok, so the '85S uses the differentials for step/dir with appropriate firmware
[11:14:53] <pcw_home> the' 85 has 5 RS-422 ports and 4 encoder inputs, the '85S has1 RS-422 port, 8 differential outputs and 4 encoder inputs
[11:15:11] <ssi> and then you can just swap 5i25 firmwares and repurpose it as a pwm/dir + encoder board?
[11:15:23] <ssi> that could be handy if I ever change that machine to servo
[11:15:30] <pcw_home> so basically a 422 receiver is replaces with a 422 driver
[11:15:32] <ssi> assuming I could find drives that take pwm rather than +/-10
[11:16:14] <ssi> and the 422 port is mainly for use as a sserial port?L
[11:16:17] <ssi> or do I misunderstand that
[11:16:25] <pcw_home> Yes both 7I85S firmware types are available (AMC drives often have PWM)
[11:16:30] <ssi> I haven't worked with sserial at all beyond the magic that the 7i77 does with it
[11:17:00] <pcw_home> yes the RS-422 port is mainly for sserial but the UART component can use it as well
[11:17:14] <ssi> what do folks do with uarts?
[11:17:25] <pcw_home> (or other uses like SSI.BISS encoders)
[11:18:47] <pcw_home> We have a few customers playing around with the UART.
[11:18:49] <pcw_home> Not sure what they are up to
[11:18:58] <ssi> aw there's no plug'n'go 7i85S kit
[11:19:25] <pcw_home> Well there is (we've sold a few)
[11:20:00] <ssi> wow '85S is half the price of a '77 too
[11:20:03] <pcw_home> main disadvantage of the 7I85/7I85S is theres no GPIO
[11:20:15] <ssi> hm
[11:20:23] <ssi> none whatsoever? so I'd need another card for limits
[11:20:42] <pcw_home> so you either have to add a 7I84. or add a standard breakout to the other 5I25 port
[11:21:07] <pcw_home> (or 7I73 or 7I69 etc)
[11:21:37] <ssi> I don't suppose there are any similar options for 50 pin cards are there?
[11:21:47] <ssi> cause I have 7i43 in there now, and I have some spare io breakouts for it
[11:21:56] <pcw_home> Yes 7I52S
[11:22:11] <ssi> aha perfect
[11:22:36] <ssi> the '52s doesn't retain any RS422 it looks like?
[11:23:08] <pcw_home> Actually if the Hostmot2 driver was a little smarter you could have I/O from the free encoder pins
[11:23:17] <ssi> that'd be nice
[11:23:23] <pcw_home> Theres a varient that does
[11:23:43] <ssi> is it possible to mix and match step/dir with pwm/dir?
[11:23:47] <ssi> I'd need to drive a vfd as well
[11:24:06] <pcw_home> Yes
[11:24:18] <ssi> as simple as "stepgens=2 pwmgens=1"? :D
[11:24:31] <ssi> or will I be downloading webpack
[11:24:46] <pcw_home> You would need a special config
[11:25:58] <pcw_home> But i dont mind making them up, its only a couple minutes (make new pinout file from old, re-compile)
[11:26:26] <ssi> nice
[11:26:37] <ssi> one of these days I need to get myself set up to hack them myself
[11:27:30] <ssi> well once I get this mill up and running I'm going to spend some time reimagining the small lathe
[11:29:13] <ssi> I think I'm going to order another '77 kit for the mill... I've got MCG servos for it, and three 30A8T AMC drives
[11:33:20] <pcw_home> 30A8 is 80V 30A?
[11:33:40] <ssi> yep
[11:33:50] <ssi> it's MASSIVELY overrated current wise
[11:33:53] <ssi> but I have them and they were cheap
[11:34:09] <ssi> the servos I have are 60V, I think 5A continuous
[11:34:33] <pcw_home> You always want about 3X cont current available for servos
[11:34:47] <ssi> well I have 6x :D
[11:34:59] <skunkworks> the amc's are rated peak
[11:35:05] <ssi> yea that's true
[11:35:09] <skunkworks> so 30a peak - 15a continuous
[11:35:10] <ssi> I think they're 15A continuous
[11:35:19] <ssi> at any rate, they should be fine
[11:35:23] <pcw_home> so you may want to set the peak current a little lower
[11:35:28] <Tom_itx> ssi, you should learn about bit files
[11:35:29] <Tom_itx> :)
[11:35:35] <ssi> Tom_itx: it's on my list
[11:35:54] <ssi> what about power supply? any suggestions on how much current I need and where I might look?
[11:36:02] <ssi> was thinking about just buying a big toroid and making my own unregulated supply
[11:36:32] <ssi> also wasn't sure with the 60v servos if I should shoot for 60v unloaded or 60v loaded
[11:36:36] <pcw_home> Yeah, that probably best for ability to ride out peak demands
[11:36:53] <ssi> is 60v a nominal rating or an absolute max
[11:37:35] <pcw_home> I would go for 60V loaded but make sure you cannot get above the drives absolute max V
[11:37:43] <ssi> that shouldn't be a problem
[11:37:51] <ssi> I think 60v loaded will be 75v or so unloaded max
[11:38:11] <pcw_home> (dont know if the AMC drives have a brake)
[11:38:17] <ssi> I don't think they do
[11:38:39] <ssi> oh I had a silly question occur to me last night trying to fall asleep
[11:38:41] <skunkworks> no - but if you get AC versions (internal power supply) I think they do
[11:38:59] <pcw_home> that becomes an issue if you get close to the max V
[11:39:02] <ssi> pcw_home: is it feasible to use the velocity value in hal on an encoder as an output to a drive for velocity mode in lieu of a tachgen?
[11:39:14] <skunkworks> ssi, yes
[11:39:16] <skunkworks> I am doing it
[11:39:18] <ssi> yea?
[11:39:30] <ssi> I dunno if it's worth doing
[11:39:43] <ssi> I managed to get the last set of current mode drives tuned reasonably well
[11:39:52] <ssi> well, pcw managed to tune them well using me as remote hands :D
[11:39:53] <pcw_home> yep a number of people with bad tachs have done this
[11:40:12] <skunkworks> I had a tach go bad.. so it was pretty easy to send the velocity from the mesa encoder -> +/-10v to the drive.
[11:40:18] <ssi> cool, good to know
[11:40:25] <ssi> I wasn't sure if it'd be too lumpy or something
[11:40:36] <pcw_home> but you need to have drives that will accept +-10 (tach inputs are usually higher voltage)
[11:40:53] <skunkworks> cradek, has a neat scope shot showing how nice it looks (analog vs digital)
[11:41:01] <ssi> yea the AMC drives list it as +/-60V tach ref input
[11:41:18] <ssi> well, maximum of 60V
[11:41:25] <ssi> not sure if it'd be happy with less
[11:41:29] <pcw_home> the velocity estimation is pretty good (as good as the quadrature normally)
[11:41:44] <skunkworks> yes - the amc drives I am using have a 'velocity' input - +/-10v vs the tach input
[11:42:13] <ssi> which drive is it?
[11:42:20] <skunkworks> 40a40ac
[11:42:27] <skunkworks> b40a40ac
[11:42:40] <skunkworks> be40a40ac < that is it
[11:42:45] <ssi> bigguns
[11:42:47] <pcw_home> thats a big-un
[11:42:50] <pcw_home> Ha
[11:43:03] <ssi> yea yours has a velocity input that mine don't have
[11:43:07] <Tom_itx> go big or go home
[11:43:08] <Tom_itx> !
[11:43:12] <ssi> heheh
[11:43:35] <skunkworks> running these http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC_0242.JPG
[11:43:39] <ssi> I bought the 30A8's before I Realized that AMC brushless drives will drive brushed motors
[11:43:46] <ssi> I've been quite impressed with the AMC stuff overall
[11:43:49] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servotag.JPG
[11:44:01] <ssi> skunkworks: yea that's bigger than anything i have :)
[11:44:30] <skunkworks> we have had one flakey one.. but they where all bought used..
[11:44:42] <ssi> yeah and they can be had cheap used
[11:44:49] <ssi> I think I paid about $100 for three 30A8s
[11:44:54] <ssi> cheaper than buying stepper drivers
[11:44:55] <skunkworks> yep
[11:44:58] <skunkworks> yep
[11:45:04] <skunkworks> people don't understand that...
[11:45:13] <ssi> and I bougth the b15a20 drives for the mill I just did for about $400 total
[11:45:22] <ssi> they were a little harder to find... most of the stuff out there is 80v
[11:45:27] <ssi> but I needed 140v for that machine
[11:45:38] <skunkworks> then with $239 for the mesa 5i25 and analog interface - you have one hell of a machine
[11:45:42] <ssi> yep
[11:45:49] <ssi> yeah the superport kits are an amazing value
[11:46:17] <ssi> was trying to tell that nub last night in here that rather than trying to buy a pci parport that may or may not work, just spend a couple bux and get something that'll really give you a lot of flexibility
[11:46:42] <ssi> but no, he'll probably buy three crappy parport cards trying to find one that works in linux, and then spend endless time and money with stupid breakout boards
[11:55:10] <jthornton> sometimes they can't see the forest for the trees
[11:56:25] <Tom_itx> i look up and all i see is sunshine
[12:05:19] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:05:40] <ssi> hey
[12:05:49] <IchGuckLive> did it work for you
[12:05:56] <ssi> I'm not home, so I haven't had a chance to try
[12:06:08] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:06:19] <IchGuckLive> give it a try when you like
[12:06:20] <ssi> and my machine is a hypertherm pm45
[12:06:27] <ssi> and i fire at pierce height: 0.2"
[12:07:09] <IchGuckLive> ssi thats high i use 3.5mm
[12:07:24] <ssi> that's the book number from the hypertherm manual
[12:07:36] <IchGuckLive> 0,14"
[12:08:16] <ssi> shielded vs unshielded consumables is the difference I bet
[12:08:18] <IchGuckLive> and cut at 0,055
[12:08:39] <IchGuckLive> at 116.3V THC
[12:08:45] <ssi> yea the shielded chart says 0.15" pierce height, 0.06" cut height
[12:08:51] <ssi> unshielded says 0.2", 0.08"
[12:08:58] <IchGuckLive> ok
[12:09:25] <IchGuckLive> i only got 2mm Sheets 0,078"
[12:09:56] <ssi> I'd like to get a machine torch
[12:10:11] <IchGuckLive> 4600mm/min = 180inch /min
[12:10:33] <IchGuckLive> ssi: dont do it
[12:10:35] <ssi> no?
[12:11:09] <IchGuckLive> i got a fast plugin so i can hand cut at any time
[12:12:44] <ssi> I think maybe the reason that I wasn't getting THC yesterday is because the torch was running too high, and the LCTHC was in tip saver mode
[12:13:56] <generic_nick> ssi: have you found a paint that matches or somewhat matches the hardinge grey?
[12:14:52] <ssi> generic_nick: haven't tried
[12:15:03] <IchGuckLive> ssi: the pm 45 triggers the torch ok only if the V is higher then 117V
[12:15:03] <ssi> I have a hard enough time keeping the machine running, much less making it pretty :)
[12:15:27] <ssi> IchGuckLive: are you sure about that? I'm sure I've run lower voltage than that
[12:15:28] <generic_nick> LOL
[12:15:35] <ssi> the manual calls out lower voltages for somecuts
[12:15:44] <generic_nick> ssi: whats wrong with yours?
[12:15:55] <ssi> 112v is the lowest in the charts
[12:15:59] <ssi> generic_nick: pneumatics are busted
[12:16:05] <IchGuckLive> as i speek so you are always at picehight over the 116V and can move down
[12:16:08] <generic_nick> for the toolchanger?
[12:16:14] <ssi> IchGuckLive: ah I see
[12:16:16] <ssi> generic_nick: yeah
[12:17:05] <generic_nick> ssi: do you think it's the piston below the turret, or the selenoids?
[12:17:15] <ssi> generic_nick: well I think it was the piston
[12:17:17] <ssi> I replaced it
[12:17:27] <ssi> and then when I put it back together, tsomething else is wrong
[12:17:57] <generic_nick> i would assume you know where all the selenoids are, right?
[12:18:28] <generic_nick> lower pannel, front right
[12:19:09] <ssi> I do, but I haven't torn into those at all
[12:19:15] <ssi> I don't really fully understand the pneumatics :P
[12:19:29] <ssi> I've probably asked you this before, but what part of the world are you in?
[12:19:30] <PetefromTn_> hey fellas.
[12:19:38] <generic_nick> socal
[12:20:07] <ssi> dangit
[12:20:18] <ssi> need more southeast hnc people :P
[12:20:27] <ssi> so I can bribe them out to fix my crap with beer
[12:20:40] <PetefromTn_> can somebody help me with tool length offsets?
[12:20:42] <generic_nick> ssi: you may have "spare" selenoids in there, if you're not using the part off tool or part chute.
[12:20:48] <ssi> I'm using neither
[12:20:51] <ssi> that's good to know
[12:21:13] <generic_nick> you can jut swap wires/air lines around to see if that works.
[12:21:38] <ssi> it's been five months since I messed with it, but once I put it back together, the symptom was an air leak at the valve block behind the turret
[12:21:50] <ssi> and when I give a toolchange command, the air leak changed sounds
[12:22:03] <ssi> before I took it apart, it didn't have that leak, but the turret didn't have enough power to move itself
[12:22:07] <generic_nick> maybe it's an air line
[12:22:10] <ssi> I think that's because of the broken piston in that check valve under the turret
[12:22:13] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_, ask the question....
[12:22:37] <PetefromTn_> Okay I am trying to run this first part I designed.
[12:22:45] <IchGuckLive> G43
[12:22:47] <PetefromTn_> I am loading the tools manually into the control
[12:23:03] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: Use G43 H(toolnumber
[12:23:16] <PetefromTn_> I used that tutorial that tells how to do it using MDI and whatnot and got the first tool loaded up
[12:23:36] <IchGuckLive> first shoudt alwas be zero
[12:23:48] <PetefromTn_> But when I tried to load another tool It says that tool number does not exist error and I cant seem to figure out how to get beyond it.
[12:24:00] <generic_nick> you have to add the tool in the tool chart
[12:24:04] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: second tool length compensation towards T1
[12:24:20] <generic_nick> go to edit tool table in the file tab in axis
[12:24:21] <PetefromTn_> Okay how do you get to the tool chart?
[12:24:32] <IchGuckLive> EDIT
[12:24:39] <generic_nick> file
[12:24:52] <jthornton> PetefromTn_, the tool table?
[12:25:24] <PetefromTn_> when I click on Edit tool table I don't get anything...
[12:25:32] <generic_nick> ah
[12:25:47] <generic_nick> then thats above my pay grade lol
[12:25:47] <jthornton> how did you configure it in the ini file?
[12:26:04] <PetefromTn_> Configure what?
[12:26:12] <IchGuckLive> and AD editor to your system ii
[12:26:15] <jthornton> tool editor?
[12:26:36] <PetefromTn_> dunno let me bring up the INI and look at it.
[12:26:51] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_display_section_a_id_sub_display_section_a
[12:27:07] <jthornton> it's in the display section
[12:27:30] <IchGuckLive> TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit
[12:27:57] <IchGuckLive> TOOL_EDITOR = gedit
[12:28:22] <PetefromTn_> Okay I don't see TOOL EDITOR anywhere in display..
[12:28:23] <IchGuckLive> EDITOR = gedit
[12:28:27] <ssi> are there AMC drives that can do AC brushless motors?
[12:28:47] <jthornton> read the link for options
[12:29:04] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: use both
[12:29:13] <PetefromTn_> There is only Editor not TOOL Editor.
[12:29:30] <IchGuckLive> EDITOR = gedit
[12:29:32] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: use both
[12:29:53] <PetefromTn_> Can I just add in Tool Editor and type it in?
[12:30:25] <jthornton> yea just do it as the manual in the link shows
[12:30:27] <IchGuckLive> TOOL_EDITOR = gedit THIS line below EDITOER
[12:31:27] <PetefromTn_> Okay I figured out how to add TOOL_EDITOR=tooledit
[12:31:42] <PetefromTn_> Can I just add , Gedit or something like that?
[12:32:07] <IchGuckLive> yes
[12:32:15] <jthornton> try them one at a time
[12:33:16] <PetefromTn_> okay will do but the comma will work between the two...?
[12:33:39] <PetefromTn_> I suppose having both will allow downloading of the tool table for use on the computer in the house.
[12:33:39] <jthornton> my guess is no, but you can find out and let us know how confused it gets
[12:33:56] <PetefromTn_> then how would you add both?
[12:34:09] <jthornton> why do you need both?
[12:34:15] <IchGuckLive> both lines Editor and ToolEditor
[12:34:25] <IchGuckLive> not both editors
[12:34:38] <IchGuckLive> you can do editor gedit
[12:34:45] <IchGuckLive> and tooleditor wordpad
[12:35:19] <IchGuckLive> but not editor=gedit,wordpad
[12:35:33] <IchGuckLive> this may fail
[12:36:07] <jthornton> and should fail as it is not a logical choice
[12:36:20] <PetefromTn_> Okay just tried Gedit and tooledit with a comma in between and it did not work. linuxCNC loaded tho.
[12:37:18] <IchGuckLive> hi bedah wether at your place
[12:37:50] <PetefromTn_> Okay Editor...G edit, and TOOL_EDITOR= Tooledit works...
[12:38:03] <PetefromTn_> Thanks guys now I can try to load some tools and cut this part.
[12:38:16] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[12:39:04] <Loetmichel> question: these couplers are called "oldenham type" iirc -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Drehstarre-Kupplung-fur-CNC-Antriebe-/121063279956?pt=Modellbauwerkzeuge&hash=item1c2fef0d54
[12:39:15] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: dnt forget the G43 Hxxx if you have diferent length
[12:39:35] <Loetmichel> ... whats the english name for these types? -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Profi-Drehstarre-Kupplung-14-19-16Nm-Wellenkupplung-Neu-/310577441911?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item484fdbac77
[12:39:43] <PetefromTn_> wait got a MSG that says only these columns are currently used
[12:39:44] <PetefromTn_> Z
[12:40:03] <PetefromTn_> Limit display to these columns by specifying
[12:40:56] <PetefromTn_> (Display) TOOL_EDITOR =tooledit Col_1, Col_2...col_N
[12:41:10] <PetefromTn_> for standalone use invoke as
[12:42:00] <PetefromTn_> tooledit col_1,Col_2 ,...Col_N, Tool_table_filename.
[12:42:07] <PetefromTn_> What does this message mean?
[12:42:43] <bedah> tach IchGuckLive
[12:42:52] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:43:10] <rob_h> means you can coustomize the way tooleditor looks when you open it
[12:43:33] <rob_h> ie not show XYW etc offsets for tools... etc
[12:44:06] <PetefromTn_> okay so it is not an error then?
[12:44:23] <Loetmichel> any native english speakers? noone can answer my question?
[12:45:02] <JT-Shop> spider coupling
[12:45:12] <Loetmichel> thanks
[12:45:13] <JT-Shop> Love Joy is a common brand
[12:45:17] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/tooledit.html
[12:46:44] <PetefromTn_> Okay I think I got it working here.
[12:46:51] <PetefromTn_> Thanks guys.
[12:46:58] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:50:20] <PetefromTn_> actually I just homed the machine and loaded the first tool and went to check the table by clicking edit tool table and it would not come up.
[12:51:11] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: Flexible coupling: elastic coupling ADS/R Series
[12:51:50] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: i think "spider coupling" will do
[12:51:51] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[12:51:58] <IchGuckLive> Backlash-free Shaft Coupling Series SMC
[12:52:37] <Loetmichel> i've made them myself once . just didnt know how to call them
[12:52:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[12:53:03] <IchGuckLive> http://jbj.co.uk/spidercoupling.html
[12:53:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12834
[12:53:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12821&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[12:54:29] <IchGuckLive> nice spindle block
[12:54:33] <IchGuckLive> speed is
[12:54:42] <Loetmichel> ~30krpm
[12:54:47] <Loetmichel> max
[12:54:54] <IchGuckLive> whow hard on bearing
[12:55:22] <Loetmichel> standard 608zz
[12:55:42] <IchGuckLive> will they hold your bitforce
[12:56:35] <Loetmichel> get a little hot ald 30krom, solved that by washing them out and filled with a "haftoel"
[12:56:39] <Loetmichel> they will
[12:56:51] <IchGuckLive> i see in the FAG 20k may at dynamicC 3
[12:57:25] <Loetmichel> the Er11 at the tip is only for 6mm max bits
[12:57:52] <Loetmichel> ahem... in the photos its only a proxxon spindle head with a collet for 1/8" bits
[12:58:04] <Loetmichel> so no pain in side forces
[12:58:24] <Loetmichel> now the spindle has an ER11 collet
[12:58:28] <Loetmichel> still no problems
[12:58:43] <IchGuckLive> the 6200Nr are made for your requests
[12:59:19] <Loetmichel> that was a cheap shot for a friend who was in need for a spindle, better than his "dremel"
[12:59:44] <Loetmichel> (the cnc had a proxxon FBS230 on it)
[13:00:02] <IchGuckLive> i use IBE proxxon for all
[13:00:05] <Loetmichel> and was in need of "a bit more power"
[13:00:13] <IchGuckLive> i agree
[13:00:29] <Loetmichel> the johnsond dc motor on it has 250W continous power
[13:00:40] <Loetmichel> and MUCH more torque than the FBS230 ;-)
[13:00:47] <IchGuckLive> proxxon IbE 230V has 300
[13:00:53] <Loetmichel> wron
[13:00:59] <Loetmichel> it has 100
[13:02:14] <Loetmichel> and NOT continous
[13:02:21] <Loetmichel> it will get hot really quick
[13:02:29] <Loetmichel> i know, i used it a while
[13:02:50] <PetefromTn_> is there a reason I can only get the tool editor to open when I first turn on the linuxCNC?
[13:03:12] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn_: jes
[13:03:21] <IchGuckLive> interpreter needs to run
[13:04:25] <PetefromTn_> Okay still not able to load more than one tool. It says there is no tool in the table. Tried to load a tool into the table and it gives me errors when I save it.
[13:05:07] <IchGuckLive> use the add button
[13:07:33] <PetefromTn_> Do you have to have a pocket number even if you don't use the toolchanger yet?
[13:08:22] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:08:47] <IchGuckLive> and no doubles
[13:09:13] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: is the number on your motor available on pollin
[13:09:21] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pollin.de/shop/p/OTk4OTg4/Motoren/Gleichstrommotoren.html
[13:09:23] <PetefromTn_> okay Just temporarily used the same pocket number as the tool number
[13:11:37] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: no, not any more
[13:12:19] <IchGuckLive> what is it a HC683LP-023
[13:12:45] <andypugh> PetefromTn_: I have heard of this issue, but not seen it. If you Alt-Tab through the windows, do you find a forgotten tool editor hidden at the back?
[13:18:33] <IchGuckLive> hi FredrikHson
[13:18:33] <FredrikHson> just thought i share this https://www.dropbox.com/s/9o541frigq9zdju/DSC01104.JPG just went out and oiled most of the things i have cut from wood with my mill
[13:19:15] <IchGuckLive> this parts may fill your wallet
[13:20:16] <IchGuckLive> upper part is maple
[13:21:47] <FredrikHson> terrible soft material not really good for milling imo
[13:22:26] <IchGuckLive> you can get colored up 2 4colors Ureol in Europ
[13:22:34] <FredrikHson> i think it was like the second test for my mill
[13:22:42] <FredrikHson> the first being the second from the top
[13:22:43] <IchGuckLive> looks like different stone or wood
[13:23:13] <IchGuckLive> and it i chiped like hell
[13:23:39] <IchGuckLive> and it can be chiped like hell
[13:27:53] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: you mean like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4378
[13:28:16] <Loetmichel> ... and looking like this afterwardS: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5077
[13:28:17] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:28:54] <IchGuckLive> you did a highspeed milling
[13:30:18] <Loetmichel> something like that
[13:30:50] <FredrikHson> good thing that it wasn't metal that would be painful with that much chips all over you
[13:31:17] <Loetmichel> FredrikHson: metal wouldnt be so much chips
[13:31:25] <Loetmichel> cnc wasnt THAT rigid
[13:31:32] <FredrikHson> depends on how much metal you remove
[13:31:53] <IchGuckLive> im off By
[13:32:19] <FredrikHson> i am glad i don't work with metals anymore those things burn when they get under your shirt..... and they always do
[13:34:02] <Loetmichel> tha problem with these plastics: they tend to get a static charge and cling to EVERYTHING
[13:38:23] <Loetmichel> FredrikHson: and i was NOT amused to look like a snowman ;-)
[13:38:57] <FredrikHson> so turning around to get an even coat would be a bad idea then ;)
[13:39:31] <FredrikHson> you should perhaps try to get some kind of enclosure for your machine to reduce that problem
[13:43:08] <Loetmichel> normally the mill had a "vaccum foot" around the mill bit
[13:43:23] <Loetmichel> but it doesent fit around the 40mm 4 flute ;-)
[13:44:05] <Loetmichel> witrh a smaller bit it looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj8sGEf8Wf8
[13:44:19] <Loetmichel> (drilling 3mm holes in 1,5mm carbon)
[13:45:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935 <- thete is a photo of the whole machine
[13:47:07] <PetefromTn_> andypugh: no I will try that tho...
[13:48:36] <Loetmichel> there
[13:49:12] <FredrikHson> looks very clean with that on there
[13:54:23] <Loetmichel> it is
[13:54:31] <Loetmichel> i.e it was
[13:54:44] <Loetmichel> i've build that machine for my ex- employer
[13:55:23] <ReadError> does that scratch up the surface?
[13:55:28] <ReadError> with it dragging over it
[13:56:12] <Loetmichel> who had selled the whole company. and the buyer had lasted half a year then the machine was broken (literally, the gantry broke apart because he had one motor for the spindles omitted and shortly after the sync belt had broken)
[13:56:27] <Loetmichel> ReadError: the foot is made of LDPE
[13:56:49] <Loetmichel> (ikea kitchen board for cutting vegetables)
[13:57:19] <Loetmichel> it is very smooth and ductile
[13:57:25] <Loetmichel> no scratches
[14:02:52] <Loetmichel> i even milled balsa wood with it
[14:02:58] <Loetmichel> with no marks on the balsa
[14:03:02] <ssi> dammit :(
[14:03:18] <ssi> got my pulleys from mcmaster, and the acetal ones were a mistake
[14:03:53] <ssi> the drawing makes it look like it has a 3/4" aluminum hub all the way through it, but it's only 3/4" at the setscrew hub... it's only like 5/16" through the acetal
[14:03:59] <ssi> if I bore it out, the hub will come off the acetal
[14:04:13] <Loetmichel> ssi: thats bad
[14:04:17] <ssi> yeah
[14:04:23] <ssi> ordered a steel one, OI'll go pick it up on my way home
[14:06:18] <Loetmichel> i make my pulleys on the mill... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7074 (the lower brown ones)
[14:06:40] <ssi> I need the pulleys to make my mill :)
[14:06:56] <Loetmichel> hrhr, hen/egg problem ;)
[14:06:59] <ssi> :D
[14:07:14] <ssi> working on this:
[14:07:15] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKGFA46CQAA-7-2.jpg:large
[14:07:20] <ssi> and no, that MXL pulley won't stay on there
[14:07:44] <ssi> I have this bad situation where I need to put a small pulley on a big shaft, and a big pulley on a small shaft
[14:07:48] <ssi> and it's frustrating
[14:08:27] <Loetmichel> hrhr, i can understand that. been there ;-)
[14:09:04] <Loetmichel> solved a similar problem my way:
[14:09:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11702
[14:09:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11711
[14:09:22] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11705
[14:09:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11714
[14:09:28] <ssi> I'm mad at myself cause i had originally cut that ballscrew with a 5/16" stub shaft
[14:09:28] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:09:40] <ssi> and I got myself mixed up thinking the small pulley would go on the screw
[14:09:44] <ssi> so I spun it down to 1/4"
[14:09:52] <ssi> now I'm in a bad spot, cause the big pulley is a 5/16" bore
[14:10:00] <Loetmichel> i LOVE these 1/4" Pertinax plates ;-)
[14:10:35] <ssi> that's pretty cool
[14:11:27] <generic_nick> so is emc2 now officially called linuxcnc?
[14:11:41] <ReadError> it has been forever
[14:11:49] <ReadError> well a bit
[14:12:00] <generic_nick> since when?
[14:12:24] <generic_nick> 2.5? 2.6?
[14:12:49] <PCW> somewhere in 2.5 I think
[14:13:07] <generic_nick> ok so somewhat recently.
[14:13:15] <ReadError> EMC is a bunch of scumbags
[14:13:15] <ReadError> idk, like over a year
[14:13:23] <generic_nick> why the change?
[14:13:27] <Loetmichel> ssi: i have to andmit: i had to make the planet 3 times to get one set whcih doesent block and doesent have backlash
[14:13:27] <Loetmichel> admit
[14:13:31] <Loetmichel> +s
[14:13:34] <ssi> Loetmichel: heheh
[14:13:53] <ReadError> generic_nick, I think EMC the company was butthurt
[14:14:03] <ReadError> they make like SAN storage and stuff...
[14:14:06] <generic_nick> ah
[14:15:49] <Loetmichel> ReadError: iirc they asked politely to change the name
[14:15:53] <ssi> I bought a 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID drill bushing, I'm gonna try to spin it down to 5/16" on the grinder and use it as a press-fit insert in the pulley
[14:16:03] <ssi> but I dunno how easily I'll be able to drill a setscrew hole in it
[14:16:12] <Loetmichel> not like other companys who come with a laywer and a big bill
[14:16:39] <ReadError> still, who sells SAN devices, then uses JAVA to manage them
[14:16:41] <ReadError> come on....
[14:16:43] <ssi> Loetmichel: suing an open source software project is'nt remarkably productive
[14:16:58] <ReadError> we use EMC
[14:17:52] <Loetmichel> ssi: so is suing private ppl for copyright infigment in xx million
[14:17:56] <Loetmichel> ans till it is done
[14:18:39] <generic_nick> finally have most stuff back in it's place in the shop.
[14:18:59] <generic_nick> seems cooler in there now that there is more open space and the floor is painted
[14:20:14] <generic_nick> so if i wanted to change a transformer to run on 220v instead of 110v, i would run the 2 sets of 110v windings in series instead of parallel, right?
[14:20:50] <PCW> yep
[14:20:51] <generic_nick> i keep poping my 110v breaker with the transformer on it
[14:21:11] <generic_nick> i guess 1500w plus everything else running on that circuit is too much
[14:21:19] <generic_nick> thanks PCW
[14:21:54] <generic_nick> just wanted to confirm before i burned my house down :)
[14:22:11] <PCW> make sure you get the phasing right
[14:24:44] <generic_nick> so if there is a blue and green per winding, i would go line======>blue====green===blue==green========> line? if that makes sense?
[14:25:21] <ssi> assuming the blues were tied together before, yep
[14:25:25] <PCW> yes if they were blue-blue green-green
[14:25:30] <generic_nick> yes
[14:25:34] <generic_nick> ok cool
[14:26:35] <generic_nick> i mean that's the way i did it, assuming it was right since it seemed to work lol
[14:27:17] <ssi> yea I think if it was parallel and out of phase, bad things would have happened
[14:27:21] <ssi> like cancellation in the core
[14:27:38] <generic_nick> yea it works fine, just a bit much with everything else running,
[14:27:52] <generic_nick> if i turn on my microwave, it pops the breaker
[15:08:03] <Jymmm> PCW: Got mSATA I/O Card? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102002&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&cm_sp=&AID=10440897&PID=249294&SID=996638314_main
[15:09:18] <Jymmm> PCW: or mini PCIe
[15:09:39] <PCW> Ethernet is probably a better solution
[15:10:08] <Jymmm> PCW: What eithernet? You mean thunderbolt =)
[15:11:44] <Jymmm> PCW: Thunderbolt only http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856102001
[15:12:42] <PCW> No, Ethernet. PCIE, Thunderbolt, USB, ESATA etc are non isolated LVDS which is not the best in industrial environments
[15:14:05] <PCW> if Intel did not have their heads up their asses when they designed PCIE it could have been transformer coupled...
[16:02:52] <GammaX-Shop|2> hello all
[16:05:38] <andypugh> Hi
[16:06:16] <Tom_itx> afternoon
[16:06:41] <GammaX-Shop|2> today is oirganize the shop after moving day.... its a nightmare...
[16:07:09] <GammaX-Shop|2> and I have a small shop!
[16:08:07] <generic_nick> yea you're preaching to the choir
[16:21:40] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[16:26:55] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
[17:29:55] <Nick001-Shop> <PCW> 7i52s card to run steppers with glass scale, do I use HMT2-Servo or Stepper and exactly how do I set stepgen to operate in velocity mode?
[17:40:29] <PCW> Probably easier to start with hm2-servo and then add the stepgens, remove the pwmgens and set the stepgens to velocity mode
[17:40:32] <GammaX-Shop> im gettin major step loss and Idk what to do..
[17:41:08] <PCW> better than major hair loss
[17:50:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/4VS5LpI.jpg
[17:50:09] <r00t4rd3d> what i would do
[17:50:40] <Nick001-Shop> <PCW>Is that the first line in the ini file? and how do I set the stepgens to velocity mode
[17:50:54] <PCW> man hostmot2
[17:50:56] <GammaX-Shop> i dont seem to lose steps when testing at a accell of 1...
[17:52:53] <GammaX-Shop> is a super low accell bad?
[17:53:04] <PCW> maxaccel/maxvel = seconds to maxvel so a good system should be able to have a 10/20 ratio of maxaccel to maxvel
[17:53:13] <syyl_> not bad, only slow
[17:53:32] <PCW> low accel means slow on curves
[17:55:17] <GammaX-Shop> im currently pushing the accel up its at 7 and vel at 2.2...
[17:55:40] <GammaX-Shop> this is perfoming 2-3 mins tests of 8 inches on the tables letting it go back and fworth
[17:56:25] <PCW> so thats about 1/5 of a second to full speed not too terrible
[17:56:39] <Nick001-Shop_> <PCW> guess I'll go read
[17:57:16] <PCW> velocity mode is set with just a single parameter
[17:57:27] <GammaX-Shop> PCW: This is only testing the x right now. I switchted from delron couplers to steel hardened straight shaft.
[17:58:40] <PCW> lead screw driven?
[17:58:57] <GammaX-Shop> ball
[17:59:23] <GammaX-Shop> 570 oz on the x and y, 1200 on z
[18:00:34] <GammaX-Shop> tested at 14 with vel on 2.2 and it hung up makin a very loud racket...
[18:01:24] <PCW> What kind of step drive?
[18:01:50] <GammaX-Shop> kelinger
[18:01:50] <GammaX-Shop> nema 23
[18:03:25] <PCW> what uStep ratio?
[18:05:07] <GammaX-Shop> u stepcan you please rephrase that?
[18:05:20] <ssi> I think the keling drives are selectable between 1/2 and 1/8
[18:06:00] <GammaX-Shop> i currently have microstepping set at .5
[18:06:11] <PCW> seems like 2.2 IPS is fairly slow (132 IPM) unless the stepmotor is geared to the ball screws
[18:06:30] <GammaX-Shop> its 1:1
[18:06:33] <GammaX-Shop> straight shaft
[18:07:01] <ssi> what's your ballscrew leade?
[18:07:04] <PCW> a higher ratio might be less likely to stall
[18:07:27] <ssi> I got my pulley situation sorted out:
[18:07:27] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKLi5haCMAIynMD.jpg:large
[18:08:25] <GammaX-Shop> 10 revs an inch
[18:08:33] <ssi> really? on ballscrews?
[18:09:03] <PCW> thats some teensy balls
[18:09:52] <ssi> GammaX-Shop: you don't want to be known for having the teensiest balls
[18:10:21] <GammaX-Shop> lol
[18:10:45] <ssi> seriously, are you sure that it's 10rev/inch, and are you sure it's ballscrew?
[18:10:53] <ssi> 5rev/inch is much more common
[18:11:12] <GammaX-Shop> there 5 but I had to set it like that because of microstepping being set at 1
[18:11:24] <GammaX-Shop> set at .5*
[18:13:35] <GammaX-Shop> thoughts?
[18:14:44] <GammaX-Shop> my drivers are set at a microstep of 2....
[18:16:21] <PCW> You _may_ have less stalling if you run at 8 (1/8 step)
[18:16:23] <PCW> (if the stalling is caused by resonance)
[18:17:08] <GammaX-Shop> what values would I then put into lcnc
[18:17:34] <ssi> multiply your output scale by 4
[18:18:30] <GammaX-Shop> hmmmvok
[18:21:26] <GammaX-Shop> i think im royaly jacking this one up lol
[18:24:37] <GammaX-Shop> if I multiply my output it would be 800 steps per rev 4 micro stepping...
[18:24:39] <GammaX-Shop> that wht u mean?
[18:28:59] <r00t4rd3d> think he meant divide
[18:29:30] <r00t4rd3d> or maybe not
[18:34:27] <GammaX-Shop> im getting stalling on that part too.... wtf
[18:39:40] <r00t4rd3d> set your driver to 1/2 step and 200 steps per rev
[18:42:16] <GammaX-Shop> doint think I can
[18:42:52] <GammaX-Shop> lowest setting is 2 for 400 steps/rev on 1.8 motor
[18:44:38] <r00t4rd3d> what driver?
[18:44:51] <GammaX-Shop> leadshine ma860h
[18:46:53] <r00t4rd3d> you can do half step with that
[18:47:09] <r00t4rd3d> sw5,6,7,8 = 0
[18:47:13] <r00t4rd3d> 200 steps
[18:47:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Step-Motor-Driver-Controller-2MA860H-6A-AC-DC-Adapt-/120920742135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c277018f7
[18:48:17] <GammaX-Shop> that wha I had... then pcw recomended I try 8
[18:48:26] <GammaX-Shop> so I did and still not workin
[18:48:47] <r00t4rd3d> whats the current set to?
[18:49:22] <r00t4rd3d> and what are your steppers rated for?
[18:49:59] <r00t4rd3d> what do you have sw4 set to?
[18:50:33] <GammaX-Shop> steppers rated for 5 amp
[18:51:18] <r00t4rd3d> position of sw1,2,3 ?
[18:51:19] <GammaX-Shop> x and y are and there set to ... switches that is are set to off on off 1- 2- 3
[18:51:30] <GammaX-Shop> r00t4rd3d: thanks for hte help I realy appreciate it
[18:51:56] <r00t4rd3d> i have no clue what i am doing other then common sense.
[18:52:07] <GammaX-Shop> lol i think ive lost myne...
[18:52:52] <r00t4rd3d> if 123 are set to 0.1.0, that is not the correct power settings
[18:53:13] <r00t4rd3d> 3.5a peak is 0.1.0
[18:53:26] <r00t4rd3d> for 5a steppers, thats not enough
[18:53:52] <r00t4rd3d> not enough power, stall.
[18:54:02] <GammaX-Shop> hmm
[18:54:04] <r00t4rd3d> i think
[18:54:20] <GammaX-Shop> well theres 2 labels... avg and peak....
[18:55:09] <r00t4rd3d> i would bump it up 2 spots and try that, 001
[18:55:20] <r00t4rd3d> 5.2a / 3.7a
[18:55:44] <r00t4rd3d> and what is sw4 set to? should be 1 i think
[18:56:52] <GammaX-Shop> i have sw4 set to off
[18:57:51] <r00t4rd3d> set it to 1 for now, its just standby current
[18:58:29] <r00t4rd3d> go back to 200 steps, low and slow till you get it working correctly then bump things up
[18:59:11] <GammaX-Shop> 0 is off im assuming?
[18:59:35] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[19:00:49] <r00t4rd3d> sw123=0 , sw4=1 , sw5678=0
[19:00:50] <GammaX-Shop> if i move sw 123 to ur specs id be lowering the amps
[19:00:58] <r00t4rd3d> oh wait
[19:01:05] <r00t4rd3d> 001
[19:01:19] <GammaX-Shop> according to my diagrams it would be 4.4 peak and 3.1 avg
[19:01:44] <r00t4rd3d> whats the next levels
[19:02:00] <GammaX-Shop> 6.5 peak 4.6 average
[19:02:09] <GammaX-Shop> 7.2 peak 5.0 avg
[19:02:14] <GammaX-Shop> thats it
[19:02:21] <GammaX-Shop> my 1200 is set on 7.2 peak
[19:03:15] <r00t4rd3d> i would try 6.5/4.6
[19:05:25] <r00t4rd3d> start with low numbers in accelerations and velocity in stepconf also
[19:06:49] <GammaX-Shop> I got it running at 2 and 10
[19:06:54] <GammaX-Shop> 8 inch passes
[19:07:41] <r00t4rd3d> are you changing those jumpers?
[19:07:45] <GammaX-Shop> and she stalled
[19:07:45] <GammaX-Shop> I did
[19:08:15] <r00t4rd3d> turn down accel and velocity
[19:08:44] <GammaX-Shop> now at 1 and 8
[19:09:07] <GammaX-Shop> i usually let it go for a min or 2 if good I bump up
[19:10:44] <r00t4rd3d> in stepconf in the axis config , motor steps per rev 200 and driver micro stepping set to 2 ?
[19:11:11] <GammaX-Shop> no
[19:11:21] <GammaX-Shop> motorsteps set to 200 and .5
[19:11:33] <r00t4rd3d> needs to be 2.0 for half step
[19:11:59] <GammaX-Shop> ill try it out
[19:12:36] <r00t4rd3d> "The driver microstepping number should be how many microsteps are in a full step. I�m running 1/2 step, so my number would be 2. If you were running 1/16 steps, then you would put 16 here."
[19:14:53] <GammaX-Shop> hmmm
[19:14:57] <GammaX-Shop> stalling even more now...
[19:15:21] <GammaX-Shop> and my numebrs were at like .7 and 8
[19:17:00] <r00t4rd3d> the joys of an odd ball driver
[19:17:11] <GammaX-Shop> wtf
[19:17:35] <GammaX-Shop> maby I should try off off off for peak 7.2 and avg 5 amp.
[19:17:42] <r00t4rd3d> try
[19:17:58] <r00t4rd3d> or just try the next higher setting and see what that does
[19:18:01] <GammaX-Shop> i dont ned o reset my drivers do i?
[19:18:06] <GammaX-Shop> tht is I think
[19:18:48] <r00t4rd3d> i would power it all down before i made jumper changes
[19:19:48] <GammaX-Shop> ok
[19:19:53] <GammaX-Shop> it still just stalled
[19:20:12] <r00t4rd3d> are you moving the jumpers while its all powered up?
[19:21:33] <r00t4rd3d> i hope not
[19:22:40] <GammaX-Shop> I power down the signal going to it so they shut down but yes moving jumpers while there is power going to the driver
[19:23:27] <r00t4rd3d> not 100% but I dont think thats good practice.
[19:23:54] <GammaX-Shop> roger that
[19:24:14] <r00t4rd3d> on my driver if i pull a motor wire while its powered it fries
[19:24:34] <GammaX-Shop> ouch
[19:24:39] <jdh> don't do that.
[19:24:49] <r00t4rd3d> i never tested it
[19:25:08] <GammaX-Shop> testing 1.3 and 16 now
[19:25:31] <r00t4rd3d> are you using the Test Axis button ?
[19:26:58] <GammaX-Shop> wow
[19:27:03] <GammaX-Shop> think I found an issue
[19:27:24] <GammaX-Shop> put new steel couplers on and its SUPER tight
[19:27:26] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[19:27:36] <GammaX-Shop> tite? idk w/e
[19:27:45] <GammaX-Shop> it stalling on that prolly
[19:27:51] <r00t4rd3d> what do you mean tight?
[19:27:58] <r00t4rd3d> hard to spin by hand?
[19:28:05] <GammaX-Shop> I turned all servos off. hard to spin by hand yes!
[19:28:12] <r00t4rd3d> it should be while its powered
[19:28:22] <r00t4rd3d> turn the driver off and spin them
[19:28:59] <r00t4rd3d> if only my parallel cable is hooked up, powered to the driver off, my motors dont spin freely.
[19:29:23] <r00t4rd3d> until its all powered off
[19:29:24] <GammaX-Shop> there completely
[19:29:24] <GammaX-Shop> off
[19:29:31] <GammaX-Shop> hard to spine!!!
[19:29:35] <GammaX-Shop> spin*
[19:30:02] <r00t4rd3d> i can roll my couplers with 1 finger while its all powered off
[19:33:52] <r00t4rd3d> i think most people get their motors working correctly before coupling them to the screws also
[19:33:54] <r00t4rd3d> i did
[19:34:52] <r00t4rd3d> youtube is filled with driver/stepper tests
[19:35:00] <jdh> wonder why
[19:38:27] <GammaX-Shop> well what kind couplers u have?
[19:46:37] <r00t4rd3d> dumpstercnc ones
[19:47:31] <r00t4rd3d> your coupler should not effect how easy your screws turn unless they are misaligned
[19:48:06] <GammaX-Shop> its mis aligned
[19:48:19] <GammaX-Shop> myne are straight up hardened steel...
[19:48:21] <GammaX-Shop> not turned on a lathe...
[19:48:35] <r00t4rd3d> i use hardware store threaded rod
[19:48:39] <GammaX-Shop> and the servomounts are chinese ones...
[19:49:06] <GammaX-Shop> threaded rod for what?
[19:49:15] <r00t4rd3d> lead screws
[19:49:24] <GammaX-Shop> ohhhh lol i got a much larger mill
[19:49:39] <r00t4rd3d> they sell it in 1 inch
[19:49:56] <r00t4rd3d> i only use 3/8-16 though currently
[19:50:58] <r00t4rd3d> assembling a new machine though that has all 1/2-10 5 start acme screws
[20:05:08] <GammaX-Shop> I loosened up the bolts on my stepper and its going no problem now...
[20:06:38] <r00t4rd3d> is it a diy mill?
[20:06:57] <GammaX-Shop> pm45 with stock ball screws
[20:07:05] <GammaX-Shop> and mounts
[20:07:11] <GammaX-Shop> everything but compouter motors and drivers
[20:08:18] <r00t4rd3d> did you do the conversion ?
[20:16:04] <GammaX-Shop> it already had screws on it
[20:16:10] <GammaX-Shop> everything was dfone except for electronics
[20:16:47] <r00t4rd3d> what are you trying now?
[20:22:14] <GammaX-Shop> r00t4rd3d: loosened the bolts on stepper and while it has a little bit of wobble to it.... it works great now...
[20:22:55] <GammaX-Shop> Ill leave it as is now but once it is milling actuall stuff... will put these in hte lathe and make them perfect.
[20:23:03] <r00t4rd3d> put a flex coupler on it
[20:23:10] <GammaX-Shop> already have these...
[20:23:23] <r00t4rd3d> and how well are they working for you?
[20:23:40] <r00t4rd3d> flex couplers are cheap if you order them from china
[20:23:52] <r00t4rd3d> just gotta wait 3 weeks for them
[20:24:21] <GammaX-Shop> flex couplers break
[20:24:27] <GammaX-Shop> ill be doin some heavy machining
[20:24:30] <GammaX-Shop> some what heavy
[20:24:44] <GammaX-Shop> i got the mill at 2.5 vel 25 accell and working great
[20:24:54] <GammaX-Shop> no stallingand no missed stepps
[20:25:03] <r00t4rd3d> at 200 ?
[20:25:11] <GammaX-Shop> yup
[20:25:20] <GammaX-Shop> although the steppers is hot as hell
[20:25:25] <r00t4rd3d> normal
[20:25:37] <GammaX-Shop> like leave ur hand on it and ull burn it hot?
[20:25:43] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[20:25:48] <GammaX-Shop> interesting
[20:25:58] <GammaX-Shop> whats max temp for these?
[20:26:03] <r00t4rd3d> when idle they heat up
[20:26:16] <GammaX-Shop> I have a temp guage id like to atach and see if its within range
[20:26:21] <r00t4rd3d> run them and they will cool down
[20:26:26] <eric_unterhause1> I now have no reason not to be running some variant of linuxcnc on my beaglebone black
[20:26:57] <r00t4rd3d> i got a reason
[20:27:11] <eric_unterhause1> wut
[20:27:53] <r00t4rd3d> i dont have a beaglebone black
[20:28:27] <eric_unterhause1> I am feeling a deep sense of pity for you, my friend
[20:28:49] <r00t4rd3d> can you actually do cnc work with it?
[20:28:55] <eric_unterhause1> no, not yet
[20:29:03] <eric_unterhause1> but I have faith that it will happen soon
[20:29:12] <r00t4rd3d> i doubt it
[20:29:35] <eric_unterhause1> i just noticed my nick is screwed up :)
[20:30:31] <eric_unterhause1> well, doubting it is a reasonable position to take
[20:30:41] <r00t4rd3d> most linuxcnc devs have no desire to move away from ancient hardware.
[20:30:49] <eric_unterhause1> but it was worth $45 for me to find out
[20:31:57] <eric_unterhause1> I don't think there is any antipathy towards cross-platform capability
[20:32:11] <eric_unterhause1> difference between that and nobody volunteering to work on it
[20:32:22] <r00t4rd3d> hardcore machinists do not like change.
[20:38:01] <eric_unterhause1> I guess it helps to plug the micro sd card into the right slot
[20:38:12] <eric_unterhause1> whoculdanode?
[20:38:29] <r00t4rd3d> did you put it in the headphone jack?
[20:38:42] <eric_unterhause1> first I tried putting it in the cup holder
[20:39:24] <L84Supper> isn't the Linuxcnc port to the BBB posted somewhere?
[20:39:26] <eric_unterhause1> hm, looks like it should have worked in the first slot I put itin
[20:39:35] <eric_unterhause1> l84: not working yet
[20:40:04] <eric_unterhause1> problem is the real time kernel hasn't been ported to the bbb kernel, work in progress
[20:40:07] <r00t4rd3d> that doesnt have a parallel port does it?
[20:40:15] <L84Supper> eric_unterhause1: any idea whats not working and whats working?
[20:40:47] <eric_unterhause1> someone has to come up with an interface to support
[20:40:53] <L84Supper> or where the tree is?
[20:40:55] <eric_unterhause1> too many options right now
[20:41:41] <L84Supper> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC
[20:42:15] <eric_unterhause1> I think everything is ok on beaglebone white
[20:42:20] <eric_unterhause1> but nobody cares any more
[20:42:31] <eric_unterhause1> which is a little unfortunate
[20:43:09] <GammaX-Shop> my stepper is currently at 156.6 degrees F stable
[20:43:32] <ssi> bbb will be working soon enough
[20:43:39] <eric_unterhause1> GammaX-Shop: that's what I'm talkin' about
[20:44:11] <r00t4rd3d> turn the power down a setting
[20:44:14] <L84Supper> is everyone keeping their beaglbone black work for Linuxcnc private for a while or is there some shared development going on?
[20:44:24] <ssi> L84Supper: it's been going on very loudly in here :P
[20:44:30] <ssi> and on the dev list
[20:44:38] <GammaX-Shop> r00t4rd3d: too much heat? lol
[20:44:43] <L84Supper> have a link to the source?
[20:44:44] <eric_unterhause1> ssi: thanks for your instructions
[20:44:45] <r00t4rd3d> i dont know
[20:44:53] <ssi> eric_unterhause1: did you get it going?
[20:45:12] <eric_unterhause1> no, because I couldn't write to a memory card, doh
[20:45:22] <eric_unterhause1> just got my memory card reader today
[20:45:35] <ssi> haha
[20:45:49] <r00t4rd3d> GammaX-Shop, back the current off a touch
[20:45:51] <eric_unterhause1> I wasn't going to mention it, but you didn't actually give me a link to a kernel
[20:45:56] <L84Supper> ssi: is there public source somewhere?
[20:45:58] <ssi> oh didn't I?
[20:46:07] <eric_unterhause1> I think the mail server stripped it
[20:46:15] <ssi> haha
[20:46:16] <GammaX-Shop> r00t4rd3d: but its going so well! lol
[20:46:16] <ssi> ok
[20:46:32] <ssi> http://www.prototechnical.com/cnc/bbb/kernel-3.8.10-vanilla.tgz
[20:46:33] <r00t4rd3d> well that seems to hot
[20:46:40] <GammaX-Shop> not a lossed step at 2.5 and 25.
[20:46:56] <r00t4rd3d> you probably wont notice if you turn it down
[20:47:04] <r00t4rd3d> if its getting too much
[20:47:10] <r00t4rd3d> or more then it needs
[20:47:14] <ssi> L84Supper: here's my branch:
[20:47:15] <ssi> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/bb-hal-gpio
[20:47:24] <ssi> that's where I did my gpio work
[20:47:36] <ssi> Charles Steinkuehler has another branch where he's working on PRU stepgens
[20:48:03] <eric_unterhause1> PRU stepgens would be really nice
[20:48:08] <ssi> yeah
[20:48:17] <L84Supper> ssi: thanks, we will have a look
[20:48:27] <ssi> right now we're pinmuxing via /dev/mem, which isn't ideal
[20:48:30] <eric_unterhause1> there was a discussion today on the bb mail list about clock tweaking on bbb
[20:48:38] <ssi> I've done some research into device tree overlays, that's the direction id like to move
[20:48:56] <eric_unterhause1> the standard settings idles the cpu at 300mHz
[20:49:28] <eric_unterhause1> I didn't recognize the person's name that raised the question, it was about real-time on the bbb
[20:49:53] <ssi> lots of people want RT... I dunno when that'll happen
[20:50:19] <eric_unterhause1> real soon now, I hope
[20:51:16] <GammaX-Shop> god I wish I just had servos! lol
[20:51:36] <jdh> all it takes is a credit card
[20:51:48] <eric_unterhause1> when your servos get warm, then you hate yourself all the more
[20:52:05] <eric_unterhause1> I had a project where we used the windings as a heater-- on purpose
[20:52:07] <GammaX-Shop> this si true
[20:52:08] <GammaX-Shop> but so much easier!
[20:52:37] <GammaX-Shop> dropped current down one knotch and so far the temp is at 154 F
[20:52:37] <ssi> speaking of servos, I got my Y pulleys sorted out :D
[20:52:37] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKLi5haCMAIynMD.jpg:large
[20:53:35] <r00t4rd3d> GammaX-Shop, does it still run the same?
[20:53:51] <GammaX-Shop> gettin there
[20:53:54] <GammaX-Shop> just taking a little longer.
[20:54:30] <r00t4rd3d> the datasheet for your motors might list the operating temps
[20:56:22] <GammaX-Shop> stepper almost up to 160, currently at 158.1, constant use back and fworth
[20:57:27] <eric_unterhause1> ssi: I unmount the microsd card before dd'ing the image, right?
[21:01:07] <r00t4rd3d> GammaX-Shop, change the idle current back
[21:01:15] <r00t4rd3d> sw4 i think it was?
[21:01:26] <r00t4rd3d> we set it to full, set it back to half now
[21:01:59] <r00t4rd3d> then when the motors are idle they will only get half current
[21:02:20] <r00t4rd3d> should keep them cooler
[21:02:37] <GammaX-Shop> current temp 161.5 and 3.0 velocity 25 accell
[21:03:03] <eric_unterhause1> will they also be half fast?
[21:04:38] <L84Supper> 30 minutes into the BBB and I already hate TI again
[21:05:06] <eric_unterhause1> what did they do now?
[21:05:08] <L84Supper> their docs are still about the worst in the industry
[21:05:27] <GammaX-Shop> L84Supper: you know the max temp for a stepper?
[21:05:45] <eric_unterhause1> pretty sure you haven't gotten there yet
[21:06:06] <eric_unterhause1> although I suppose that servos use better magnets
[21:06:09] <r00t4rd3d> its like 180-200f
[21:06:24] <eric_unterhause1> but they can withstand that all day
[21:06:33] <eric_unterhause1> much to my chagrin
[21:06:37] <GammaX-Shop> well myne is 162 +- .5 stable
[21:06:55] <r00t4rd3d> did you change sw4 to half?
[21:07:00] <L84Supper> GammaX: the glass transition temp of coil insulation or whatever melts first :)
[21:07:14] <r00t4rd3d> melt the wires, short out your driver
[21:07:28] <eric_unterhause1> ya, I was always worried about the insulation
[21:08:19] <GammaX-Shop> L84Supper: lol!
[21:08:50] <L84Supper> I'd keep the case under 100 deg C
[21:09:49] <L84Supper> class B insulation is rated at 130 degrees C
[21:10:06] <L84Supper> coil to case is probably ~30 deg C
[21:10:41] <L84Supper> for continuous 90 C is safe
[21:10:57] <eric_unterhause1> I should have bought a memory card reader with blinky lights
[21:12:04] <L84Supper> you can add a heat sink or aluminum plate to lower the temp
[21:12:29] <eric_unterhause1> that works pretty well, did it with a camera
[21:12:48] <eric_unterhause1> the difference in temp was pretty amazing
[21:13:20] <L84Supper> 162 F = 72 C
[21:14:27] <GammaX-Shop> good idea on hatsink
[21:14:29] <GammaX-Shop> heat*
[21:14:51] <pcw_home> Dont most step motors use class H?
[21:14:52] <GammaX-Shop> im stable at 162.5 at a vel of 3.1 accell of 25. those good numbers?
[21:15:42] <eric_unterhause1> I think I just dd'd my image to the wrong place on the sd card
[21:16:24] <GammaX-Shop> eric_unterhause1: what you trying to dd?
[21:16:38] <eric_unterhause1> beaglebone image
[21:16:44] <L84Supper> pcw_home: don't know what he's got, so figure for worst case
[21:17:41] <GammaX-Shop> eric_unterhause1: i have no idea wtf a beaglebone is soo im out of your realm on htat one
[21:17:59] <eric_unterhause1> its a small computer
[21:18:09] <GammaX-Shop> ohhh now I know
[21:18:13] <eric_unterhause1> I'm installing an image of debian on an sd card to boot
[21:18:37] <GammaX-Shop> what are common vel/accel values people have?
[21:18:46] <GammaX-Shop> for a midsize rf45 type machine?
[21:19:29] <eric_unterhause1> I dunno, but did you know that the derivative of jerk is called snap?
[21:21:48] <GammaX-Shop> nope lol
[21:22:43] <pcw_home> what about crackle and pop?
[21:25:48] <eric_unterhause1> crackle is derivative of snap, pop is derivative of crackle
[21:26:09] <eric_unterhause1> actually, it appears that "jounce" is more common than snap
[21:26:24] <pcw_home> and higher derivatives are just rice crispies?
[21:26:42] <eric_unterhause1> apparently there are motion controls that are jounce limited
[21:27:05] <eric_unterhause1> limiting jerk just seems like a good thing for inter-office harmony
[21:27:45] <eric_unterhause1> jerk limiting is common in aerospace
[21:27:50] <pcw_home> Ive hear of quintic motion profiles but thats about it
[21:29:25] <L84Supper> pcw_home: beaglbone black + FPGA cape vs ZYNQ for embedded motion control of a few axis
[21:30:04] <L84Supper> small machines, not large machine tools
[21:30:14] <pcw_home> jerk limiting is important if you want to minimize the otherwise uncorrectable errors at acceleration steps
[21:30:16] <pcw_home> (and minimize energy stored in mechanics)
[21:31:56] <GammaX-Shop> is 1 step on a servo usualy .001 with ball screws?
[21:32:37] <pcw_home> If you are not using the video or NAND you can probably do everything in a BBB (if not too many axis)
[21:32:39] <pcw_home> an FPGA will have higher performance and be a lot more flexible but the BBB (or just Sitara based SBC is cheaper BOM wise)
[21:32:48] <skunkworks> cradek mentioned with his seiki - he could set the accelleration very high but backed it off because he could feel it in the floor...
[21:33:30] <ssi> I want to keep the video if at all possible
[21:33:31] <skunkworks> GammaX-Shop: could be anything....
[21:33:36] <eric_unterhause1> seiki is knee mill?
[21:33:53] <ssi> it eats a ton of IO, for sure, but it's nice being able to run a monitor directly on it
[21:33:55] <skunkworks> no - mori seiki jr.. smallish machining center
[21:34:08] <skunkworks> *for some definition of small
[21:34:36] <eric_unterhause1> it would be nice to use the bbb for everything
[21:34:52] <eric_unterhause1> but I wouldn't mind having 2 either
[21:34:55] <ssi> I wouldn't mind an fpga cape
[21:35:11] <ssi> or some kind of sserial or SPI breakout
[21:35:13] <skunkworks> http://geektrap.com/bill/01248711886
[21:35:22] <eric_unterhause1> from the beagleboard list it appears that the display is somewhat limited on the BBB
[21:35:31] <L84Supper> there is some small spartan6 cape in the works
[21:35:41] <ssi> limited how?
[21:35:54] <pcw_home> resolution of encoders varies by requirements, a servo plasma cutter will
[21:35:56] <pcw_home> likely have much lower resolution than a lathe or mill .001 to .000005 might be the range
[21:36:23] <skunkworks> GammaX-Shop: my machine is 60960 counts per inch...
[21:36:46] <eric_unterhause1> ssi: limited to low res
[21:36:56] <ssi> how low?
[21:37:01] <ssi> I think it's at least 12x10
[21:37:11] <eric_unterhause1> they are working on figuring that out right now
[21:37:35] <skunkworks> or 0.000016404
[21:37:56] <Valen> hey pcw_home how hard would it be to get gate drive signals out of a 5i22 rather than direction and PWM?
[21:37:56] <ssi> hm that reminds me
[21:38:08] <ssi> I ordered hdmi to micro cable from monoprice and it never showed up
[21:38:13] <Valen> basically just doing the deadtime generation
[21:38:15] <pcw_home> not hard at all
[21:38:27] <pcw_home> use the 3pwmgen module
[21:38:52] <Valen> I was hoping for a regular brushed DC
[21:39:05] <L84Supper> http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_Capes
[21:39:45] <L84Supper> http://beagleboard.org/CapeContest/entries/FPGA+LOGI-BONE/
[21:39:45] <pcw_home> Just use U,W?
[21:40:04] <Valen> thanks, gives me a place to start looking ;->
[21:40:44] <pcw_home> Ill bet the logibone guy is really happy that they used the GPMC for the on card NAND...
[21:41:00] <GammaX-Shop> whats all the hype ith the beagle? GOnna be running lcnc from it?
[21:41:24] <L84Supper> http://valentfx.com/prj/fpga-dev/19-logi-bone-cape
[21:42:37] <L84Supper> http://valentfx.com/images/prj/logi/logi-bone/SCH-LOGI-BONE-FAT-RA1.pdf
[21:43:05] <L84Supper> XC6SLX9 144 pin
[21:44:07] <L84Supper> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XC6SLX9-3TQG144C/122-1747-ND/2339929
[21:45:13] <pcw_home> (why not to buy anything from Digikey)
[21:45:33] <L84Supper> 2-3x the price
[21:46:02] <pcw_home> ok for protos
[21:46:11] <pcw_home> or when desparate
[21:46:43] <eric_unterhause1> GammaX-Shop bbb is cheap and it looks like it will run linuxcnc pretty well
[21:47:10] <eric_unterhause1> nobody is currently making an i/o device that works with it
[21:48:03] <eric_unterhause1> I always like running dd, takes forever, then running sync, takes just as long
[21:48:39] <pcw_home> I am considering a breakout but the pin muxing reminds me why I hate ASICs
[21:49:16] <eric_unterhause1> all the microcontrollers are muxed to the hilt nowadays
[21:49:25] <pcw_home> sucks
[21:50:02] <Valen> oh you may know this pcw_home a friend was after a FPGA on a usb stick
[21:50:10] <Valen> basically a dongle to make a stream processor with
[21:50:13] <Valen> any suggestions?
[21:50:29] <pcw_home> There must be some cheap ones around
[21:50:59] <Valen> you would think that, but for some reason they all seem to thing you want to interact with the real world
[21:51:56] <pcw_home> Yes its also a missing area in FPGAs (large FPGAs with small pin counts)
[21:59:58] <L84Supper> Valen: http://www.xess.com/prods/prod048.php
[22:00:34] <Valen> L84Supper: thanks for that I'll pass it on
[22:05:14] <L84Supper> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-NEW-FPGA-STARTER-Altera-FPGA-Development-board/705109654.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a
[22:05:22] <L84Supper> cheaper but not smaller
[22:11:27] <ssi> I have a couple fpga devboards
[22:15:35] <eric_unterhause1> ssi: on Michael's debian install, can I still log in over usb, or do I have to go make a xover ethernet cable?
[22:15:51] <ssi> best off makign a cable
[22:16:01] <ssi> you can load the gadget driver to get usb network going, but it's not as seamless as angstrom
[22:16:50] <L84Supper> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-shipping-iCore-FPGA-ARM-development-board-CYCLONE4-STM32-EP4CE6E22C8N-STM32F103VC/605662347.html
[22:17:07] <L84Supper> CYCLONE4 + STM32,EP4CE6E22C8N + STM32F103VC,fpga development board
[22:18:13] <pcw_home> I like the $NaN price
[22:19:21] <L84Supper> found it for only $52
[22:25:29] <L84Supper> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.106.4yg7ax&scm=1007.77.3.0&id=12737780367&pvid=00294bf3-9e47-4aaa-9d16-38b2e8250022&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=&pm_id=
[22:46:52] <zultron> Woo hoo! Taobao, the fleabay of the East.
[22:49:00] <eric_unterhause1> how does getting here on friday constitute 2 day shipping?
[22:49:05] <zultron> I spent almost a whole week once learning enough about steppers, stepper drivers, spindles and VFDs, as well as the Chinese characters to read the ads for and purchase a 70 lb suitcase of cheap CNC hardware from taobao.
[22:49:26] <zultron> I think I saved $300 in shipping for all that effort.
[22:50:56] <zultron> eric, you in the US? It's after hours today (Mon), they receive your order tomorrow (Tue), ship the next day (Wed) with 2-day express (Fri).
[22:51:45] <eric_unterhause1> they will ship tomorrow, overnite would be wednesday and 2 day would be thursday
[22:52:05] <zultron> In that case, I'd blame wormholes.
[22:52:13] <zultron> They really do exist.
[22:52:36] <eric_unterhause1> I blame MBA's, but I believe it is the same physical phenomenon
[22:53:37] <ssi> plasma is hard :(
[22:53:38] <zultron> Erm, I'm an MBA, and logistics is a simple OR (Operations Research) problem, in which wormholes are a factor.
[22:54:54] <zultron> As are tsunamis, earthquakes, Godzilla, and other 'systemic' sources of uncertainty.
[22:55:38] <eric_unterhause1> amazon never screwed me like this before
[22:55:58] <eric_unterhause1> usually I don't actually need anything second day, but friday is cutting it close
[22:56:17] <ssi> eric_unterhause1: I've had some days like that
[22:56:40] <ssi> my favorite is when you order something overnight because you absolutely positively need it friday, and then they sit on your order and ship it friday
[22:56:50] <ssi> so much fun to pay $60 for overnight shipping to get something four days from now
[22:57:06] <eric_unterhause1> that's why I don't buy from some company I forgot anymore
[22:57:28] <eric_unterhause1> funny I've forgotten their name
[22:57:44] <eric_unterhause1> paid for expedited shipping, but they sat on it for days and then shipped overnite
[22:58:22] <eric_unterhause1> digikey should also figure out the shipping business
[22:58:42] <eric_unterhause1> I ordered something to go to an address in Minnesota and it took a week
[22:59:45] <ssi> mouser pissed me off real bad a couple weeks ago
[23:00:17] <eric_unterhause1> yeah, they have always been slow too
[23:00:27] <ssi> i tried to order something on a saturday that I needed relatively quickly
[23:00:33] <ssi> and their site was broken
[23:00:40] <eric_unterhause1> that site scares me
[23:00:49] <ssi> (by relatively quickly I mean like wednesday, so usps would have been fine)
[23:00:54] <ssi> monday morning I get an email:
[23:00:57] <ssi> Thank you for your web order you placed with Mouser over the weekend. We have had technical difficulty with our web site that has been corrected. Please advise if you would like for Mouser to proceed with your order or cancel.
[23:01:04] <ssi> I'm thinking, wow best company ever
[23:01:11] <ssi> so I reply and say yes please get that order going
[23:01:15] <ssi> 10am monday morning
[23:01:41] <ssi> I get no response all day, and then it's too late to order anything, so I email and complain, and ask for a shipping upgrade for the inconvenience
[23:01:53] <ssi> so I get back:
[23:01:53] <ssi> Thank you for the prompt response. I will submit the order for you and waived the shipping.
[23:02:05] <ssi> then TWO DAYS LATER, they ship it 2 day
[23:02:07] <ssi> so I get it friday
[23:02:13] <ssi> and they charged me $50 for the shipping
[23:02:28] <ssi> so I email to yell about that, and the same rep keeps telling me that she's going to credit me back the shipping, but it never happens
[23:02:37] <ssi> took me three weeks to get that money back
[23:02:55] <ssi> I sent this email to them: I suppose that plus the experience i had last week is enough for me to find the initiative to overcome Digikey's horrible web experience and switch suppliers.
[23:02:59] <ssi> hahah
[23:03:33] <eric_unterhause1> I don't know why I order from digikey
[23:03:45] <ssi> I hate digikeys site worse than mouser's
[23:03:48] <eric_unterhause1> newark and allied are just as easy
[23:04:01] <ssi> newark always seems really expensive
[23:04:04] <ssi> as does digikey
[23:04:17] <zultron> Heh, Mouser wrote on their packing slip that they'd sent 4/4 RPis my bud and I ordered (this, after a 4-month backorder). They actually sent 1. Luckily they believed us when we showed them the 1" thick box that couldn't possibly have contained all four.
[23:04:23] <generic_nick> great, i just ordered from mouser lol
[23:04:35] <zultron> Took them four more weeks to get us the other three.
[23:04:41] <ssi> generic_nick: mostly they're ok... they just dicked me over on shipping twice in 2 weeks
[23:04:45] <eric_unterhause1> I like mouser, just don't expect it anytime soon
[23:05:11] <eric_unterhause1> although my bbb came a month before I wanted it to :)
[23:05:13] <generic_nick> i remember mouser was slow when we ordered crap from them when i had a job many, many years ago
[23:05:28] <ssi> I wish there was an electronics supplier with a website and shipping as good as mcmaster
[23:05:34] <ssi> that would pretty much make my life complete
[23:05:39] <generic_nick> lol
[23:05:42] <eric_unterhause1> mcmaster sent me to collections
[23:05:47] <ssi> hah
[23:05:49] <ssi> pay your bills :)
[23:05:52] <zultron> deadbeat
[23:06:08] <eric_unterhause1> yeah, but they say it's 30 days net
[23:06:28] <ssi> I've gotten caught with some goofy stuff with them too... I order almost exclusively through the website
[23:06:37] <ssi> but once I called and asked for some help picking sometihng out
[23:06:43] <ssi> and they shipped it to me, and then sent me a paper invoice
[23:06:46] <eric_unterhause1> actually, my wife lost her credit card and the credit card company changed our number
[23:07:00] <ssi> and I wasn't expecting it... I don't even know how to run a checkbook anymore :P
[23:07:06] <eric_unterhause1> mcmaster shipped me stuff on the old number until they sent me to collections
[23:07:07] <zultron> Among MBAs, Dell's negative CCC (Cash Conversion Cycle) is a legendary business case.
[23:07:14] <ssi> eric_unterhause1: woops
[23:08:10] <zultron> Whoops. Wormhole?
[23:08:10] <eric_unterhause1> I thought it was nice they trusted me to pay, but it would have been nice to know I owed them money
[23:08:27] <ssi> yeah that's a bad situation
[23:08:37] <ssi> overall I love working with them
[23:08:47] <ssi> and their website is the absolute shining example of what ecommerce should be
[23:08:47] <generic_nick> so my keyboard with built in mouse was acting up... turns out my 110v was being drained wayyy too much by other stuff on the circuit. caused issues with the mouse, and also the servos werent working so hot
[23:09:02] <eric_unterhause1> I actually figured it out myself and paid the balance the day before they sent me to collections
[23:09:42] <generic_nick> eric_unterhause1: i had a similar experience when a card i had on file expired
[23:09:54] <zultron> ERP system wormhole, then.
[23:10:06] <ssi> see I just had a card on file expire
[23:10:21] <ssi> and when I went to order stuff, the website said "hey your card is expired, what's the new expiration"
[23:10:24] <ssi> and that was the end of it
[23:10:27] <ssi> that was yesterday
[23:10:40] <generic_nick> this was years ago, maybe they changed it
[23:10:47] <eric_unterhause1> the nice thing about mcmaster is that they get better over time
[23:10:56] <eric_unterhause1> which is rare for an industry leader
[23:11:24] <generic_nick> what would 'murica do if mcmaster went under
[23:11:31] <generic_nick> we'd all be screwed
[23:11:35] <eric_unterhause1> true
[23:11:35] <ssi> bitch about grainger
[23:11:37] <ssi> or something
[23:11:41] <eric_unterhause1> msc is ok
[23:11:43] <generic_nick> oh fuck grainger
[23:11:48] <generic_nick> and msc
[23:11:51] <ssi> yea
[23:11:56] <generic_nick> unless you like getting bent over
[23:12:00] <ssi> msc is annoying as shit.. order from them once and they'll call you forever
[23:12:02] <eric_unterhause1> I work with people who buy everything from grangier
[23:12:08] <ssi> and I'd much rather buy from their bastard cousin Enco
[23:12:08] <ssi> heh
[23:12:24] <generic_nick> enco is ok, just takes too long to get the stuff
[23:12:26] <ssi> you know what's funny... enco and msc are colocated in atlanta
[23:12:29] <ssi> and we bought a brake once
[23:12:37] <ssi> msc will let you pick stuff up, but enco won't
[23:12:42] <eric_unterhause1> I asked them if they heard of mcmaster, but they didn't have an account there
[23:12:43] <ssi> they ship out of the same fucking dock
[23:12:54] <ssi> so we told them we were shipping it private trucking
[23:12:58] <ssi> and showed up with a pickup truck
[23:12:59] <ssi> heh
[23:13:02] <generic_nick> ssi: LOL
[23:13:50] <eric_unterhause1> mcmaster sent me something that cost $500, it was a pain to get them to take it back
[23:13:53] <eric_unterhause1> I didn't want it
[23:14:06] <ssi> I've never tried to return anything
[23:14:10] <ssi> I've heard their return policy is good though
[23:14:12] <eric_unterhause1> they will take anything back
[23:14:36] <eric_unterhause1> I asked them a question about an order once, they offered to take it back even though I hadn't suggested such a thing
[23:15:07] <eric_unterhause1> but it turns out if they make a shipping mistake, it's hard to give it back without a refund
[23:15:56] <ssi> hah
[23:15:59] <ssi> so you didn't pay for it
[23:16:14] <eric_unterhause1> I have no idea who ordered it
[23:16:18] <eric_unterhause1> no clues at all
[23:17:08] <eric_unterhause1> actually, now that I think about it, they threw it in a box with my order so someone else got shorted
[23:17:44] <eric_unterhause1> I ordered a trailer hitch jack from Amazon, they sent me a dog shock collar
[23:17:56] <eric_unterhause1> someone with a dog got a surprise
[23:17:57] <ssi> lol
[23:18:09] <eric_unterhause1> bad dog!
[23:18:34] <ssi> what do people do about Z axis brakes on small mill conversions like the g0704?
[23:18:46] <L84Supper> zultron: I'm in China half the time if you need anything
[23:18:52] <ssi> so they don't spin down when you power off
[23:19:17] <eric_unterhause1> gas spring?
[23:19:24] <generic_nick> ssi: hang it upside down
[23:19:57] <eric_unterhause1> I have a motor with a brake, but I'm afraid to use it
[23:20:11] <ssi> oo gas spring is a good idea
[23:20:21] <eric_unterhause1> although I'm pretty sure the motor would happily spin the brake
[23:20:22] <ssi> what's the best way to select the spring?
[23:20:52] <eric_unterhause1> you would have to ask that, I'm in decision paralysis over that very question
[23:21:04] <ssi> hahah
[23:21:18] <eric_unterhause1> the adjustable ones are far more expensive
[23:23:05] <eric_unterhause1> I am planning on using a digital scale and my trailer hitch jack/dog shock collar to see how much force it takes to lift the thing I'm putting the gas spring on
[23:24:14] <eric_unterhause1> Hoss has totally rebuilt his 704 into a clone of a 5 axis machining center, or you could ask him
[23:24:41] <ssi> haha I know :P
[23:24:49] <ssi> plus he's way too much of an "internet celebrity" :P
[23:28:21] <zultron> L84Supper, I do sometimes. Not from China but from Chicago, you driving to the Fest?
[23:29:10] <L84Supper> haven't decided, lots of projects got delayed into June, running out of free time
[23:29:20] <zultron> Ah, that sucks.
[23:29:25] <ssi> so my neighbor's been hanging out with me in the shop the last couple days
[23:29:31] <L84Supper> 11 hr drive or 2 hr flight
[23:29:35] <ssi> and he coined a new term for metalworking
[23:29:38] <ssi> "reverse 3d printing"
[23:29:40] <ssi> I lol'd irl
[23:29:55] <zultron> How about the PyCAM additive processes project? Still on schedule for this summer?
[23:29:57] <L84Supper> maybe Friday - Sunday
[23:30:25] <zultron> If you ended up driving, I might want something heavy from Shars. :)
[23:30:30] <L84Supper> working on NX CAM first, then we'll see
[23:30:47] <zultron> Bah, NX CAM
[23:30:49] <L84Supper> maybe a few granite surfaces?
[23:30:54] <zultron> You got it.
[23:31:17] <L84Supper> all the large OEM's use NX and they are the paying customers
[23:31:29] <zultron> Their website can't even compute the shipping for a 18"x24" to Texas.
[23:31:32] <L84Supper> PyCam is for the cheapskates
[23:32:14] <zultron> Yeah, I'm a cheapskate. I've rooted around in there, got task persistence working again, but have to decide whether to add other pieces.
[23:32:28] <L84Supper> $400 in gas vs $250 flight, can you carry on a granite surface?
[23:33:06] <L84Supper> have to get the devs in China to dig into PyCam
[23:33:09] <zultron> Heh, I bet that the 18x24 would cost about $150 extra for Shars to ship.
[23:33:18] <zultron> Ugh, Chinese developers
[23:33:28] <zultron> That won't produce anything that anyone wants.
[23:33:35] <L84Supper> I try to avoid touching anything beyond 1's and 0's
[23:33:49] <L84Supper> ?
[23:33:59] <zultron> PyCAM is 'in a state of flux' right now, shall we say, between its old architecture and its new plugin-based architecture.
[23:34:16] <zultron> So whatever you touch, you'll want to update to the new plugin architecture.
[23:34:34] <L84Supper> won't be till July at this rate
[23:34:48] <zultron> Chinese devs won't bother with that. They'll take your specs, do exactly what you ask and no more, and you'll be stuck paying for it.
[23:35:03] <L84Supper> the work on NX should tell us what we need
[23:35:19] <zultron> I may have had a fraught experience with Chinese devs in the past. :)
[23:35:37] <zultron> Tsinghua grads, no less.
[23:35:59] <L84Supper> these aren't outside contractors
[23:36:10] <zultron> Ours were employees.
[23:36:35] <L84Supper> sorry things didn't work out for you
[23:36:47] <zultron> Well, maybe they still will.
[23:37:30] <L84Supper> working on RTAI first
[23:37:33] <eric_unterhause1> I always blame management
[23:37:53] <zultron> But you're not going to get someone who has the love and the sense of aesthetics that other contributors to an open-source project would have, resulting in something of questionable value to the community.
[23:38:39] <zultron> I definitely blame myself, but there's a limit.
[23:39:33] <L84Supper> also imaging and alignment for Linuxcnc
[23:40:49] <eric_unterhause1> one of the undergrads that works in our lab says that some companies will not hire unless you have demonstrated contributions to open source
[23:41:13] <zultron> Me too. I'm still looking at other things that can help integrate vision, 3D scanning, planning, and other fancy toys at our fingertips.
[23:41:44] <zultron> Wow, that's awesome. Enlightenment.
[23:41:49] <L84Supper> a camera scans the part on a 5-axis stage, auto aligns itself, scans for defects and other things
[23:42:14] <eric_unterhause1> I forget which company he interviewed with, it wasn't an open source company
[23:42:51] <L84Supper> the devs in China have worked on many open source projects,it's actually how we all met
[23:43:22] <L84Supper> ex AMD, Intel, Oracle, Google people
[23:43:30] <zultron> (I'm wearing a t-shirt that says "RMS 萬歲" (erm, in simplified characters) as we type ;)
[23:44:21] <eric_unterhause1> I kinda miss the serial port on the beagleboard, I guess I'm going to have to get one of those ftdi boards
[23:45:16] <zultron> Initially, the scanner models the machine and fixtures; next models the brick of material placed thereon, and computes bounding boxes and obstacles.
[23:45:29] <L84Supper> I can't say if were 100% committed to PyCam yet
[23:45:44] <zultron> Need to look at ROS. :)
[23:46:07] <L84Supper> it would be nice but if it's too much trouble to work with the other devs it's not worth it
[23:46:09] <zultron> (Not an MBA TLA this time, whew)
[23:46:37] <zultron> Lars has been pretty permissive of large, sweeping changes so far.
[23:47:14] <zultron> That's why I keep asking which version you run, since there was a big performance fix about a year ago.
[23:47:43] <zultron> Lars is often lurking here, 'sumpfralle', but he's not on right now.
[23:48:02] <L84Supper> I have barely touched it myself
[23:48:36] <zultron> It's in a bit of a hairy state right now. Lots of potential, but lots of work needing done with the plugins.
[23:48:58] <L84Supper> looks like I have 0.5.1 on here
[23:49:00] <zultron> If you want the changes within a finite timeframe, you're going to have to do them yourself.
[23:49:13] <zultron> Yeah, that one's about 5x slower than the current version.
[23:49:55] <eric_unterhause1> beaglebone wiki down, time for sleep anyway
[23:49:57] <zultron> There are some other efforts to add non-python, binary TPG libs too, but none of them are ready, AFAICT.
[23:49:59] <L84Supper> we don't expect anyone to do the work for us
[23:50:26] <zultron> And there's ODE collision detection, but I haven't gotten it to work out of the box.
[23:50:47] <L84Supper> we are more concerned about personality getting in the way of us building on it vs re-factoring and forking
[23:51:26] <zultron> That's always a risk. Keep an eye on how my recent contribution is accepted (or not) over the next weeks.
[23:51:35] <zultron> It's already been announced on the pycam-dev list.
[23:52:02] <zultron> And forking is always an option.
[23:52:31] <zultron> But from my impression, Lars would be happy to give up the reins to someone with more energy to drive the project.
[23:53:40] <zultron> And, the plugin re-factoring was initiated by Lars, and I think he'd love to have help on it.
[23:54:39] <L84Supper> there is no current solution for additive manufacturing CAM beyond the toy applications for rerap and and some proprietary applications for old 3d printer tech
[23:55:09] <zultron> Yep, you pointed that out to me first, and I agree there's huge potential there.
[23:55:45] <zultron> I'd also like to use additive manufacturing CAM to rewind my 1924 Neracar magneto.
[23:56:39] <L84Supper> Solidworks is working with the glue guns printers by makerbot
[23:56:55] <zultron> BTW, isn't Staples or someone selling a 3D printer? What do they do for software?
[23:57:09] <eric_unterhause1> staples is putting printers in stores
[23:57:17] <eric_unterhause1> like a copy machine
[23:57:33] <L84Supper> it a Laminated Objet Manufacturing printer LOM
[23:57:34] <zultron> Copy machines scan an original first. Like that?
[23:57:58] <L84Supper> a fancy paper cutter and laminator
[23:57:58] <eric_unterhause1> not intended to be taken too literally :)
[23:58:00] <zultron> Can't upload a CAD drawing to a copy machine in any form.
[23:58:24] <L84Supper> i haven't bothered to look
[23:58:35] <eric_unterhause1> I can't imagine that's going to go too well
[23:59:01] <zultron> Well, I think the software they provide is worth a bother, even though it hasn't come up high enough on my prio list yet.
[23:59:02] <L84Supper> they also sell the Cube now
[23:59:06] <zultron> either.