#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-22

[01:49:48] <GammaX> Im starting to realy like solidworks...
[06:40:36] <cncinator> am i supposed to work with G0 when using tool nose radius correction in lathe mode?
[06:50:55] <jthornton> you don't cut with G0
[06:52:13] <jthornton> can you restate the question?
[06:57:32] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you gonna make it to the fest this year?
[06:58:24] <jthornton> don't know... when is it?
[06:58:48] <Tom_itx> june 17-23
[06:59:40] <Tom_itx> this was posted yesterday here: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/42692/focus=42699
[07:00:04] <jthornton> I missed it
[07:00:15] <Tom_itx> i figured you may have
[07:01:48] <Tom_itx> stuart's posts give the locations
[07:03:27] <jthornton> heck that is only 7 hours from me
[07:03:43] <Tom_itx> yeah, only about 5 min for me
[07:04:09] <Tom_itx> nice bike ride
[07:04:29] <jthornton> be a good ride on the Bluewing for sure
[07:50:03] <skunkworks> Connor, you are going to have to post a rigid tapping video in hoss's thread... :)
[07:50:36] <jdh> got torque?
[07:52:40] <skunkworks> I do...
[07:52:56] <jdh> sure, but you don't have a $995 mill
[07:53:07] <skunkworks> heh
[08:00:06] <jthornton> I just got an email and the subject is "help! I don't know how to register..." and the sender is 3 Chinese characters
[08:13:19] <L84Supper> jthornton: http://translate.google.com/
[08:18:55] <jthornton> the message is in English
[08:39:07] <cncinator> hello?
[08:58:17] <JT-Shop> hello
[09:57:41] <generic_nick> hi
[10:01:40] <PetefromTn> hey nick...
[10:02:24] <jdh> being late is Not Nice.
[10:02:29] <jdh> <urk>
[10:04:50] <Loetmichel> jdh: but perfectly normal... for me ;-)
[10:05:56] <generic_nick> i have a fairly small (13lb/ft) brushed dc servo for the z axis on my fairly large knee mill. it's a 4000rpm motor. i wonder if i can get away with using it if i go 2:1 with the gear reduction on it.
[10:06:31] <generic_nick> it's only moving the quill
[10:09:28] <jdh> why not 4:1?
[10:10:10] <generic_nick> i need some speed out of it
[10:10:50] <generic_nick> i want at least 300ipm rapids
[10:11:17] <generic_nick> 2:1 will peak at 400ipm
[10:21:21] <JT-Shop> 400IPM rapids on a knee mill... WOW
[10:24:06] <generic_nick> yea i know, a bit fast. gotta be able to run production till i can buy a vmc though
[10:25:53] <generic_nick> i had it going at about 350ipm but a drive died
[10:26:34] <JT-Shop> jamming an end mill into the vise at 200IPM is exciting enough for me :)
[10:26:57] <L84Supper> generic_nick: what are you cutting?
[10:27:32] <generic_nick> i dont even use a vice lol
[10:27:36] <generic_nick> aluminum
[10:28:09] <JT-Shop> fixtures?
[10:28:47] <generic_nick> yes
[10:29:17] <generic_nick> i will be running the same programs all day so crashing shouldnt be an issue
[10:29:43] <JT-Shop> I'm in a long production run for me 7 of each part
[10:30:09] <JT-Shop> for making the same parts all day you can't go fast enough between parts
[10:34:01] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[10:46:54] <ssi> anyone have any experience with centroid drives that have some kind of optical connection to the control?
[10:47:18] <ssi> I'm gathering info for a retrofit of an older centroid-controlled mill to linuxcnc, and I was hoping to reuse the drives, but I'm starting to be worried that I won't be able to
[10:47:47] <ssi> I don't have the original control on hand yet (should be here wednesday), but I've got the books (which don't contain much useful info), and they allude to optical data/sync fiber cables from the control
[10:47:53] <ssi> and this: http://www.cncsnw.com/Drives.htm seems to confirm it
[10:49:40] <IchGuckLive> first get the number of the board then worry about
[10:49:53] <IchGuckLive> time to go home till later BY
[10:50:33] <Connor> skunkworks: Why in Hoss's thread?
[10:51:32] <generic_nick> JT-Shop: yea definitely cant go fast tnough
[10:51:38] <generic_nick> enough*
[10:51:54] <skunkworks> He is looking at linuxcnc and the only way he can rigid tap is with a servo spindle... (using it as an A axis)
[10:51:56] <generic_nick> ill be doing about 2000 parts a month, all the same
[10:52:28] <ProxDem> ssi: maybe they are refering to optical limit switches?
[10:52:56] <generic_nick> just picked up a 4th axis to help speed things up
[10:53:07] <ssi> no, it's not that... it looks like the drive is one board for all three servos, and there's optical comms between the drive and the control
[10:53:11] <ssi> looks terribly proprietary
[10:53:16] <ssi> I think I'm going to have to find some suitable drives
[10:53:58] <ProxDem> oh crap
[10:54:04] <ProxDem> ssi: nvm just saw your url
[10:54:17] <ProxDem> check the label on the square PAL chip just behind the fiber optic sockets.
[10:54:22] <ProxDem> that says it all =(
[10:54:56] <ssi> I can't read it in the picture
[10:55:01] <ssi> I don't have the control on hand yet, sadly
[10:56:17] <ssi> I have some brushed servo drives on hand, but they're 80V/30A drives, and I think the servos on this machine are probably higher voltage than that
[10:56:18] <ProxDem> yeah I meant "Fibre Optic Sockets"...kinda kills my theory that it was refering to optical limit switches =)
[10:56:20] <ssi> 140V maybe
[10:57:05] <ssi> yea looks like the servos are 140V, 18A
[10:58:56] <ssi> so here's something I don't really know... if I have a drive with an 80VDC vupply voltage max, and I use it to power a 140V servo, will it work?
[10:59:01] <ssi> I would imagine it'd just give me a reduced top speed
[11:01:34] <generic_nick> http://www.antekinc.com/pdf/AN-15458.pdf
[11:01:35] <pcw_home> Yep 80/140 max speec
[11:01:49] <ssi> makes sense
[11:02:01] <ssi> seems like most of the drives I can find are 80V drives
[11:02:29] <ssi> pcw: I just ordered a 7i77 kit for this project... looking forward to trying the smartport stuff :)
[11:02:34] <skunkworks> Connor, and he has the same machine.
[11:02:43] <generic_nick> i have that transformer.... i know its an elementary question for you guys, but just want to confirm... should i be hooking up both 115v inputs in parralel to 115v, or in serries to 220v?
[11:02:57] <ssi> generic_nick: correct
[11:03:04] <ssi> make sure the phase is correct
[11:03:10] <generic_nick> and i assume i should be hooking the 58v outputs in parralel?
[11:03:11] <Connor> skunkworks: I think I missed something in that conversation..
[11:03:32] <generic_nick> i want 58v out of it
[11:03:36] <skunkworks> heh
[11:03:55] <Connor> You say anything before this ? (11:49:01 AM) skunkworks: Connor, and he has the same machine.
[11:03:56] <ssi> yeah parallel them... tie the greens together and the blues together on the secondary, and the reds together and blacks together on the primary
[11:04:04] <Connor> The and make me think so..
[11:06:15] <generic_nick> thanks ssi. i just wanted to confirm before i burned my house down. i dont mess with ac very much
[11:06:34] <ssi> :D
[11:08:20] <generic_nick> i have the cap and rectifiers from my old power supply. both the outputs on the rectifiers are wired in series. both the inputs on one rectifier are used, but only 1 on the second one is. any idea why?
[11:09:00] <ssi> full wave vs half wave? Not really sure what you're looking at
[11:11:34] <generic_nick> uploading a pic now.
[11:12:39] <generic_nick> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8672662446_737dd00e0c_h.jpg
[11:13:07] <ssi> right side of the pic is to the transformer?
[11:13:30] <generic_nick> correct i believe
[11:13:52] <generic_nick> i dont have the original transformer
[11:14:08] <ssi> strange...
[11:14:31] <generic_nick> yea
[11:14:45] <generic_nick> perhaps i should just use one?
[11:15:36] <ssi> ok lets back up a tick... what are you trying to get, 50VDCish?
[11:15:39] <generic_nick> i think possibly the old transformer was 3 phase
[11:15:44] <generic_nick> 70vdc
[11:15:48] <ssi> ok
[11:15:52] <ssi> so you have a 58VAC secondary
[11:15:56] <generic_nick> right
[11:16:00] <ssi> and you want to fullwave rectify and smooth
[11:16:02] <ssi> no regulation I guess
[11:16:12] <generic_nick> right
[11:16:17] <ssi> and you're not gonna use the 18v or 12v secondaries?
[11:16:24] <ssi> you only need the one bridge rectifier then
[11:16:24] <generic_nick> no
[11:16:31] <ssi> you may be right about it being 3ph before
[11:16:35] <generic_nick> thats what i thought
[11:16:39] <ssi> ok sorry
[11:16:45] <ssi> you threw me off for a minute :)
[11:16:58] <generic_nick> i just wanted to make sure i was in the ballpark lol
[11:17:31] <generic_nick> thanks, that helped a lot. i just didnt want to let the smoke out :)
[11:18:33] <ssi> no problem :)
[11:19:01] <generic_nick> the 2 rectifiers just didnt make sense to me wired the way they were
[11:19:10] <ssi> yea that threw me too
[11:20:04] <Connor> skunkworks: What's a good RPM to tap a 1/4-20 at ?
[11:20:42] <jdh> connor: using stock motor + kb + belt?
[11:20:42] <ssi> depends on the material :P
[11:21:17] <Connor> jdh: No. Treadmill motor + kbcc + belt + 1:1
[11:21:59] <Connor> 6061 Alum for testing..
[11:22:11] <ssi> aww connor you have your 704 running
[11:22:14] <ssi> I'm jealous
[11:22:18] <ssi> I haven't made any progress on mine
[11:22:40] <Connor> I've had it running for a while.. just got the spindle working with a encoder.
[11:23:20] <ssi> awesome
[11:24:33] <generic_nick> and just to be sure, i run the capacitior in parrallel to the rectifier outputs and servo drive inputs
[11:24:36] <Connor> I need to add my limits/home for Z and Y
[11:25:21] <ssi> generic_nick: yes. in parallel shorts AC to ground. In series would block DC, but allow AC to pass; the opposite of what you want :)
[11:25:26] <pcw_home> That looks like a 3 phase rectifier setup
[11:26:03] <Connor> Looks like I'll be using a single input for all Axis.. because I only have 1 input left.. 3 for the encoder, 1 for E-Stop.. which I MIGHT be able to do away with since I'm using the charge pump.. and then 1 for the limits/homes
[11:26:14] <ssi> Connor: what are you using for IO?
[11:26:18] <generic_nick> got it. thanks! pcw_home, i believe it was. just based on what i saw that was left from the machine i scavanged the parts from
[11:26:20] <Connor> parport for now.
[11:26:33] <ssi> Connor: need to get some mesa gear... I'll never screw with parport again
[11:26:35] <Connor> I have a 2 other parports.. but.. I don't have a breakout board.
[11:27:01] <Connor> ssi: Would love to go to a 5i25 + 7i76.. You wanna donate the funds? :)
[11:27:04] <jdh> they are like $10 on ebay?
[11:27:04] <generic_nick> ssi: i agree, the mesa stuff makes life easy
[11:27:17] <ssi> Connor: it's $200... man up ;)
[11:27:39] <ssi> worth every penny
[11:27:45] <jdh> someone order 5 sets of 5i25+7i76 for the discount and I'll take one.
[11:27:53] <generic_nick> lol
[11:28:45] <generic_nick> ok back to the dungeon to wire this up. thanks again ssi.
[11:28:48] <Connor> At this point.. It's working.. I have a few upgrades in mind.. but.. I need to do the following first. Finalize my Power Draw bar, get it in a enclosure.. and get my pendant built.
[11:29:11] <Connor> at which point.. I'll upgrade to ball screws and the 5i25 + 7i76
[11:33:11] <ssi> ah you're running stock screws still too huh
[11:33:18] <ssi> I have ballscrews for mine, and the machine is in pieces
[11:33:20] <ssi> hahah
[11:34:42] <jdh> I have ballscrews on mine, but stock spindle/gears
[11:36:45] <Connor> Goal was to get it CNC'd asap.. then do upgrades as $$$ and time permited.
[11:36:59] <Connor> permitted
[11:39:07] <Connor> Right now.. I need to clean up my shop.. It's a disaster zone.. and I can't function when it's a complete mess.. it's too small..
[11:40:16] <jdh> heh, I know the feeling. I was planning on straightening up this w/e, but after looking around for a few mins, I went back inside.
[11:45:08] <jdh> is there a reason to mount a vise in the center of the table vs. off to one side?
[11:45:43] <Connor> Depends on what your doing.. I have my offset ATM because I had the rotary table mounted at some point..
[11:46:36] <jdh> mounting it off to one side would allow the rest of the table to be used without having to remove/re-align the vise
[11:52:51] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28YXq5DXN0A yeah! gantry in place =) clicking sound is just some metal filing that is stuck somewhere on a bearing :P
[11:52:53] <Tecan> (28YXq5DXN0A) "Router Gantry" by "Tomas Wilhelmsson" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:23
[11:52:59] <mrsun> and ... bad camera :P
[11:53:05] <archivist> moving vices around for jobs is normal, make a jig so alignment is easy
[11:53:24] <GammaX> Anyone familiar with hardinge HC chuckers?
[11:54:15] <mrsun> http://build1.cncdiaries.com/files/2010/04/gantry3.jpg someone just became a milionare and descided to buy bolts for every single penny ? ;P
[11:55:07] <archivist> at last an attempt at rigid construction
[11:56:00] <jdh> woudln't longer linear bearing blocks have also helped. Or pairs of them
[11:56:14] <PetefromTn> mrsun: Is that a plasma cutter setup?
[11:56:23] <mrsun> PetefromTn, hopefully a router in the end :P
[11:56:30] <mrsun> if it wont hold up for that, yes it will be a plasma :P
[11:56:55] <PetefromTn> LOL yeah it looks great but the Z is kinda short for a router?
[11:57:07] <mrsun> PetefromTn, 1200x1200mm
[11:57:11] <mrsun> is the working area
[11:57:17] <gene77> This is nuts, I just installed that Dell monitor behind the lathe, and its complaining it can't display the video mode, but it is!
[11:57:33] <mrsun> its what i have room for atm :/ cant build a fullblown one :/
[11:57:37] <PetefromTn> what's the Z
[11:57:45] <mrsun> oh
[11:57:51] <mrsun> about 100mm
[11:57:56] <mrsun> or alittle less
[11:58:24] <PetefromTn> nice man...what kinda rails did you use?
[11:58:32] <mrsun> depending on where i put the actual spindle i can get a maximum of like 100mm ... but i can make spacers later if its to low :P
[11:58:37] <mrsun> PetefromTn, V rails .. homeground
[11:58:45] <PetefromTn> from what?
[11:58:49] <mrsun> angle iron
[11:58:58] <PetefromTn> Aah.... skate bearings?
[11:59:00] <mrsun> no
[11:59:03] <mrsun> V groove bearings
[11:59:09] <PetefromTn> cool...
[11:59:12] <mrsun> like the mechmate uses =)
[11:59:26] <PetefromTn> Like the looks of the mechmate...
[11:59:42] <mrsun> mine is modeled of a mechmate but made with the tools i have on hand :P
[11:59:56] <mrsun> as in .. no press brake ... no plasma ... :P
[12:00:13] <mrsun> small bandsaw, MIG welder, angle grinder and drill press =)
[12:01:01] <PetefromTn> Woke up last night when my youngest daughter came to bed with us saying she could not sleep. Glad she woke me up because I heard a funny sound coming from downstairs like static or something. Went downstairs and found that my water heater had blown a hose in the closet under the stairs. THAT WAS FUN.... just got it fixed and now cleaning up the mess LOL..
[12:01:27] <PetefromTn> mrsun: Hey man we do what we can with what we have LOL...
[12:01:36] <mrsun> yeah =)
[12:01:53] <mrsun> and add some wiggle room for bolts etc and one can make it quite accurate in the end :P
[12:02:20] <GammaX> PetefromTn sorry to here that!
[12:02:34] <PetefromTn> Yeah man so was I LOL...
[12:02:48] <GammaX> atleast your house didnt flood!
[12:04:45] <GammaX> when using a lathe... whats the usual amount of tools that you would be using? Im in the process of designing some gang style tool holders and I need to think about how many holders I would need...
[12:04:56] <Connor> PetefromTn: Oh damn.. How much water ?
[12:07:54] <PetefromTn> Thankfully since my Daughter woke us up and I kinda went to bed late watching recumbent trike youtube videos LOL it musta broke within about an hour or so of when we woke up. I bought those braided lines for the water heater because I have seen what a plain rubber hose breaks like and it is not pretty. So I was lucky that the leak was just kinda like someone shot a hole in the hose with a pellet gun or something at it
[12:07:54] <PetefromTn> sprayed against the sheetrock underneath the stairs and deflected back onto the water heater for the most part. I was able to suck up almost all of the water with my wet or dry vac and we left a powerful fan in there to dry it out as we slept....
[12:08:36] <generic_nick> PetefromTn: that sucks. ive been waiting for mine to blow, it's almost 25 years old
[12:11:54] <pcw_home> if the tank springs a leak a pan/drain will help (no help for pipes leaking though)
[12:11:55] <PetefromTn> Well hell don't wait a blown water heater can really screw up your house if it blows when you are away. I ALWAYS turn of the water and flick the breaker on my water heater whenever we are gonna be gone for more than a day or two but even a day of a leaking water heater can destroy your house pretty good. My next door neighbor was out of town for a week one time and my kids were playing frisbee in the yard and I heard a
[12:11:55] <PetefromTn> hissing sound from their garage area. I looked inside the window and could see the water shooting up and hitting the ceiling so I ran and grabbed my water shutoff valve and turned off their water. The danger there is that the heating element can overheat if there is no water in there so we watched it until they came back. It still really screwed up their whole house downstairs and they had to pay people to come in a redo
[12:11:55] <PetefromTn> their drywall and flooring in the whole downstairs....
[12:14:37] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:17:19] <generic_nick> my tank is gas, it's a pain to shut it off since you have to light the pilot every time
[12:27:17] <PetefromTn> GammaX: hey man....?
[12:28:22] <GammaX> Try not to fill up chan with possible useless stuff haha
[12:28:48] <GammaX> can you look at this and tell me what you think the dimensions would be. im confused as hell
[12:28:48] <GammaX> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Position-Gang-Tool-Bar-OmniTurn-805-Tool-Holder-/290901939425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bb1b54e1
[12:28:49] <GammaX> Only reason being that they state 5/8 diameter on 1/2 center line...
[12:28:58] <PetefromTn> sorry...
[12:30:07] <PetefromTn> are they talking 1/2 inch center line from bottom to top?
[12:30:41] <GammaX> I have no idea lol thats why im askin...
[12:31:40] <IchGuckLive> gamma for a gun lathe or a toolholder mill
[12:32:27] <GammaX> IchGuckLive gang tool style
[12:32:34] <IchGuckLive> the 8 holes are 5/8 with a 1/2 zoll distance
[12:32:48] <GammaX> IchGuckLive the lovely anilam... crusader 2 lathemate mounted to a hardinge hc bed...
[12:32:50] <PetefromTn> welll I dunno really but just guessing from the looks of that stock if that is indeed a 5/8 inch hole the stock is most likely 1" high so half inch would be on center...?
[12:33:09] <ssi> GammaX: I have an HNC
[12:33:13] <ssi> I can do most jobs with 8 tools
[12:33:17] <ssi> (have an 8 tool turret)
[12:33:43] <IchGuckLive> turret is the best
[12:34:08] <GammaX> ssi what controller? Linuxcnc?
[12:34:09] <ssi> and the hardinge chucker tooling comes in two flavors: 5/8 and 1/2"
[12:34:11] <ssi> yeah linuxcnc
[12:34:21] <ssi> retrofit from the original NC garbage
[12:34:32] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: why dont you do this yourself with the mill its only holes in a given diameter at a gibven distance
[12:34:52] <GammaX> IchGuckLive I plan on it. just makin drawing now in SW
[12:35:12] <IchGuckLive> solid works is good to go
[12:35:14] <PetefromTn> That's what I said....you could even use the lathe to do it if you're clever...
[12:35:32] <GammaX> im not paying someone 250 to buy that! lol
[12:35:34] <ssi> is keling's website gone?
[12:36:05] <IchGuckLive> http://www.kelinginc.com/
[12:36:09] <jdh> ssi: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
[12:36:21] <IchGuckLive> im on
[12:36:40] <jdh> the new web site sucks differently
[12:36:51] <ssi> aha
[12:36:59] <ssi> I can't get kelinginc.com to work, but http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/ works
[12:40:03] <IchGuckLive> update ypur browser
[12:41:09] <ssi> oh well, I was looking to see what they have in the way of servo drives, but all they show is the gecko 320x
[12:42:09] <Icekiller> question guys if i have a tr12x3 should i just mill both ends to 8mm? or does the front end need to be "2" different sizes, (i usually see 10mm and then 8mm)
[12:42:57] <jdh> larger diameter for the bearing, smaller threaded for the locknut?
[12:42:57] <IchGuckLive> it is up to you Icekiller
[12:43:32] <IchGuckLive> jdh thats what i did
[12:43:49] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: why not 16x4
[12:44:07] <Icekiller> price, overall size
[12:44:12] <IchGuckLive> tr16x4 gives you a better and faster performance
[12:44:16] <Icekiller> machine is only 50cm by 50cm and 15cm high
[12:44:27] <Icekiller> (x,y = 42cm linear guides, z = 15mm)
[12:44:30] <Icekiller> (x,y = 42cm linear guides, z = 15cm)
[12:44:34] <IchGuckLive> thats good for 16x4
[12:44:55] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: where are you from
[12:44:58] <Icekiller> the problem i have in my head is the 16x4 = wider so i'll loose even more X travel
[12:45:03] <Icekiller> you know where i'm from :P
[12:45:13] <IchGuckLive> asorry
[12:45:14] <Icekiller> i'll come for a cup of coffee :p
[12:45:33] <Icekiller> just found an old stash of 608z :p
[12:45:40] <Icekiller> thats why i was wondering ;)
[12:46:02] <Icekiller> IchGuckLive belgium
[12:46:04] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: http://stores.ebay.de/Metallbau-Pietrzak
[12:46:27] <IchGuckLive> all ready made as you only neet to drive 20km towards mönchengladbach
[12:47:11] <Icekiller> yea i know him :)
[12:47:24] <Icekiller> but i don't know if the rods i buy from him will be modified at the ends?
[12:47:28] <IchGuckLive> ok so up to you
[12:47:35] <Icekiller> read above
[12:47:48] <Icekiller> i send him an ebay message asking about how the ends where.. never got a responds
[12:47:55] <IchGuckLive> you can tell him your needs and it will be made as you want
[12:48:06] <Icekiller> well i send him 2 messages never got a responds..
[12:48:12] <Icekiller> so don't really care to order from him :)
[12:48:23] <IchGuckLive> the parts are 3m and cut ,turned to your neeeds
[12:48:36] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:48:45] <IchGuckLive> go for 10mm
[12:49:19] <Icekiller> i'm just annoyed xD
[12:49:21] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: Maedler inside 2
[12:49:36] <IchGuckLive> as prices are falling
[12:49:42] <Icekiller> what ?
[12:50:02] <IchGuckLive> http://maedler.de/
[12:50:35] <Icekiller> ah :)
[12:50:45] <IchGuckLive> http://maedler.de/product/1643/1620/din-103-trapezgewindespindeln-und-muttern-eingaengig-rechts
[12:51:34] <IchGuckLive> on your length next shop or internal ending is best to go for
[12:51:51] <Icekiller> yea to expensive that store to be honest
[12:52:00] <Icekiller> i'm able to get better prices for the rods
[12:52:11] <IchGuckLive> at this quality
[12:52:36] <IchGuckLive> there are precisan differences
[12:52:49] <Icekiller> well more around pietrzak his price
[12:54:06] <IchGuckLive> up to you as i said , n maedler 3m Tr20x4 i use for most i never gad problems with backlash at all
[12:54:14] <Icekiller> sorry if i seem a pain in the ass :)
[12:54:21] <IchGuckLive> no
[12:54:27] <IchGuckLive> good discussion
[12:54:29] <Icekiller> but the 16x4 = bigger so wider so i'll loose more on my Zaxis on the width
[12:54:38] <IchGuckLive> do you share your supplyer
[12:54:43] <Icekiller> and its basicly _bigger_ than my rails (15mm)
[12:54:51] <Icekiller> so thats just.. bad ;)
[12:55:04] <Icekiller> sharpcoffeedev.net/cnc/totalguides.jpg <-
[12:55:09] <IchGuckLive> rails from cnc discount
[12:55:21] <Icekiller> i got rails..? :p
[12:55:45] <Icekiller> the ballscrew/trapezium is kinda the problem
[12:55:51] <Icekiller> for the ballscrews i need would be
[12:55:55] <Icekiller> ~250 usd
[12:56:05] <Icekiller> including bk/bf/nut/shipping
[12:56:14] <Icekiller> 2x 550mm 1x 250
[12:56:50] <IchGuckLive> nice price
[12:57:01] <IchGuckLive> i got 140Eur on one
[12:57:17] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kugelumlaufspindel-1605-x-500mm-komplett-CNC-Frase-Spindel-Festlager-Loslager-/221211717286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item33813eeea6
[12:58:58] <IchGuckLive> your are in a lucky position if you get this prices on that quality parts
[12:59:13] <Icekiller> i can't compare the quality..
[12:59:17] * Icekiller is a studnet
[12:59:23] <Icekiller> don't have the cash to spend 140euro on one xD
[12:59:30] <Icekiller> that would mean starving for a month ;)
[12:59:53] <IchGuckLive> agree on that price is high
[13:00:42] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: the university hase most time student support on mashining
[13:00:48] <IchGuckLive> if you studdy mashining
[13:00:54] <Icekiller> nah
[13:01:01] <IchGuckLive> as we do parts all the time for our students
[13:01:03] <Icekiller> programmer
[13:01:08] <Icekiller> and its not that kind of school :)
[13:01:17] <IchGuckLive> ask asking is free
[13:01:51] <IchGuckLive> so next shop and 10Eur for the cofee desk
[13:01:54] <Icekiller> IchGuckLive :) they own a cnc machine
[13:01:55] <Icekiller> thats it ;)
[13:02:06] <Icekiller> i'm in every student council @ my school
[13:02:12] <IchGuckLive> mill or lathe or both
[13:02:19] <Icekiller> only for PCB's
[13:02:26] <Icekiller> they only do pcb stuff
[13:02:31] <Icekiller> i have access to a small cnc machine
[13:03:11] <IchGuckLive> my students work,train on this http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG
[13:03:18] <IchGuckLive> 2students 1 mashine
[13:03:23] <Icekiller> i know
[13:03:26] <Icekiller> you showed me that :)
[13:03:31] <IchGuckLive> 25mashines in classroom
[13:04:07] <Icekiller> yea we don't have anything like that
[13:05:11] <IchGuckLive> most students are trying to brake the bit
[13:05:29] <IchGuckLive> but it does not reatch the part B) O.O
[13:05:45] <GammaX> If I made a sketch with multile holes, how can I extrude that sketch and make those holes go through the extruded piece?
[13:05:54] <GammaX> in Sw...
[13:06:50] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: this are 15 lines of gcode yust direct programming
[13:07:01] <IchGuckLive> use heekscnc
[13:07:31] <GammaX> IchGuckLive well im using Sw... lol
[13:07:50] <IchGuckLive> more work on sketching then milling
[13:09:00] <GammaX> figured it out.
[13:09:05] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:12:29] <IchGuckLive> ok have a nice day where ever you are im off
[13:12:31] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive do you build those?
[13:12:38] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:12:44] <IchGuckLive> 140 now in use
[13:12:52] <Tom_itx> nice
[13:13:03] <Tom_itx> all classrooms?
[13:13:08] <IchGuckLive> yes
[13:14:41] <tjb1> hello all
[13:15:25] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: you cand use them real no force
[13:18:33] <pcw_home> Thats a very nice compact teaching router
[13:18:35] <tjb1> how is your plasma IchGuckLive
[13:18:59] <IchGuckLive> still on full fire
[13:19:23] <IchGuckLive> about 50qm that suturday
[13:19:42] <IchGuckLive> no THC its working at 2500mm/min
[13:21:49] <Icekiller> anyone got a spare 608z xD
[13:23:56] <Loetmichel> Icekiller: abot 100 pcs, why?
[13:23:58] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:24:02] <Icekiller> got 8 :p
[13:24:04] <Icekiller> need "9"
[13:24:04] <Icekiller> :p
[13:24:24] <Loetmichel> to far away
[13:24:28] <Icekiller> pf :p
[13:24:36] <Icekiller> i'm in brussel 3 times a week :p
[13:25:36] <Loetmichel> still to far to drive there for one 50ct baering
[13:26:03] <Icekiller> xD
[13:33:51] <GammaX> if you guys had gang tooling would you rather have 5/8 or 3/4 boring bars?
[13:35:27] <generic_nick> bigger the better in most cases, as long as it fits in the hole you're boring
[13:35:43] <generic_nick> more rigidity is always better
[13:36:56] <generic_nick> ssi: power supply seems to be working. thanks for the help. im getting 80vdc at the cap.
[13:37:10] <archivist> boring a 1.2 mm hole is rather difficult with those sizes :)
[13:37:18] <generic_nick> indeed
[13:38:33] <generic_nick> now i get to wire up the servo drives. i hate wiring.....
[13:45:01] <r00t4rd3d> i like it
[13:45:20] <r00t4rd3d> ocd anal about it
[13:48:41] <ssi> generic_nick: excellent
[13:48:50] <ssi> I'm looking into what I need to do for a power supply now
[13:54:34] <GammaX> ANyone know what size bolts might be on this? :D http://cncmentor.com/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/5c966b74972e85cdeaa24c82f0545120.jpg
[13:55:58] <frallzor> M12 maybe
[13:56:09] <archivist> is that a midget or a giant holding it
[13:56:42] <GammaX> lol thats one of my problems...
[13:56:56] <cradek> heh 3/8-24
[13:57:20] <cradek> (how the heck would we know?)
[13:57:36] <GammaX> good eyes? idk!! lol
[14:40:16] <DJ9DJ> namd
[14:54:28] <Tom_itx> 2-56
[14:54:36] <Tom_itx> it's a giant
[14:56:06] <generic_nick> i wish this manual for my drives had legible numbers for the inputs
[14:58:37] <ssi> love that game
[14:59:50] <GammaX> Need your guys opinion... I have the oppurtunity to get a older hardinge hc chucker manual machine for about 500 bucks... it runs and I dont know what the tollerances are... pictures look decent... I would have to take a 10 hr drive to go pick it up though... :/
[15:00:49] <Tom_itx> and a dump truck to take it home
[15:01:08] <jdh> nah, rent a trailer
[15:01:16] <GammaX> yeah I got that covered.
[15:01:23] <Tom_itx> the only ones i've seen were specialized machines
[15:01:27] <ssi> are you wanting to convert it?
[15:01:38] <generic_nick> nice lathes
[15:01:57] <GammaX> ssi I dont know at this point cause I already have a hc with a anilam cnc on it...
[15:02:02] <generic_nick> one of my favorites.
[15:02:12] <ssi> I love my HNC
[15:02:16] <ssi> (although it's down at the moment :()
[15:02:28] <GammaX> this would be to fix and keep and use possibly convert to cnc... use as spare parts if they fit... or to fix it up and sell it locally...
[15:04:14] <generic_nick> i love my hnc too.
[15:04:25] <generic_nick> great little lathe with emc on it
[15:04:31] <ssi> mine's been broken for about six months
[15:04:36] <ssi> pneumatics are screwed up
[15:04:40] <ssi> and I haven't spent any time working on it
[15:05:09] <generic_nick> i use mine daily but i need to work on the x axis. the servo is really rough in one direction and ferrors.
[15:05:21] <ssi> clean the tach
[15:05:25] <generic_nick> i can only run it at like 70ipm
[15:05:35] <generic_nick> hmm
[15:05:42] <generic_nick> what part of it?
[15:05:56] <generic_nick> can you take it apart?
[15:06:12] <generic_nick> it's intermittent
[15:06:12] <GammaX> what brand servo?
[15:06:13] <ssi> yeah
[15:06:26] <ssi> it's like a little motor
[15:06:30] <ssi> but it's a generator
[15:06:32] <ssi> tachogenerator
[15:06:37] <generic_nick> i dont know, the stockers on an hnc. it has the hiak drives
[15:06:44] <ssi> it gets greasy inside and starts to give erratic tach signals
[15:06:48] <ssi> screws up the drives
[15:07:05] <ssi> if you watch halview it looks like it oscillates
[15:07:20] <generic_nick> gotcha. it's only in one direction and is intermttent. sometimes it runs fine
[15:07:26] <GammaX> would it be easy to convert to cnc?
[15:07:35] <GammaX> I have a vfd already....
[15:07:40] <ssi> GammaX: the HC you mean?
[15:07:45] <ssi> GammaX: what sort of screws are in it?
[15:07:47] <GammaX> ssi yes sir
[15:07:50] <GammaX> dont know
[15:07:56] <generic_nick> i wouldnt convert it.
[15:07:57] <GammaX> im assuming stock acme type?
[15:08:00] <ssi> the HNC is an NC machine, but it's ballscrew stock
[15:08:06] <ssi> I'd assume acme also
[15:08:20] <ssi> if you want a CNC one, I'd get an HNC or a CHNC
[15:08:35] <generic_nick> it would need ball screws. too good of a manual machine to mess it up with a conversion
[15:08:42] <ssi> I agree with nick
[15:08:47] <GammaX> im missing the 5c collet closer on my hc and I figure I can buy this one that has it and take it off...
[15:09:10] <GammaX> or just keep it as a manual...
[15:10:00] <GammaX> and use the pneumatic closer on the one I have already
[15:10:11] <generic_nick> if it comes with any faceplates id be interested in one.
[15:11:07] <ssi> I want a 5 or 6" chuck for mine
[15:11:12] <GammaX> http://postimg.org/image/iqe1n67av/
[15:12:03] <jdh> how long is the bed on those?
[15:12:06] <GammaX> http://postimg.org/image/we7kyvvp7/
[15:12:13] <GammaX> im not really sure...
[15:12:39] <jdh> they are just made for short pieces?
[15:12:52] <GammaX> well its not an engine lathe
[15:13:02] <GammaX> i think about 1 foot piece could be worked on...
[15:13:29] <jdh> no tailstock/etc?
[15:13:32] <GammaX> comes with a phase converter and an extra motor...
[15:14:10] <GammaX> jdh nutin like that
[15:14:24] <jdh> do you only work from the end? Does the turret allow tools from the side?
[15:15:09] <GammaX> you cna do side
[15:17:22] <GammaX> Only thing with that hc is it comes with not tooling...
[15:23:35] <ssi> the chuckers are set up for short work
[15:23:43] <ssi> and not for work between centers
[15:24:21] <Nick001-Shop> ssi - do you have your ini and hal files posted somewhere? don'twant to reinvent the wheel
[15:24:34] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: I'll try to dig them up for you when I get home
[15:24:44] <ssi> I was just thinking last night that I need to archive them online in case of catastrophe
[15:25:03] <ssi> I want to find someone who will let me pay them to come make my pneumatics work
[15:27:01] <Nick001-Shop> you would have to start cleaning things starting with the lube system. Have you tried bypassing that with some filtered air?
[15:27:25] <ssi> well it's worse than that at this point
[15:27:39] <ssi> I took apart the pneumatics on the backside of the X carriage, that run the turret
[15:27:44] <ssi> there was a broken checkvalve in there
[15:27:52] <ssi> so I got a new part from hardinge at considerable expense
[15:27:59] <ssi> reassembled, and now it is broken-different
[15:28:05] <ssi> I just get air leaking
[15:28:14] <ssi> and when I try to run a tool change, the air leak changes tone for a second
[15:28:17] <GammaX> nylon tape!
[15:28:32] <ssi> problem is, I know next to nothing about pneumatics
[15:28:48] <Nick001-Shop> air valve to the collet - have you cycled it?
[15:29:04] <ssi> think so, yes
[15:29:09] <ssi> it's been months since I've messed with it
[15:29:19] <GammaX> ssi where do you live?
[15:29:24] <ssi> atlanta, ga
[15:29:35] <GammaX> too far from me otherwyse id help
[15:29:37] <ssi> if anyone in the southeast wants to help me with it, I'll come pick you up :P
[15:29:43] <ssi> in my airplane even
[15:29:44] <ssi> ;)
[15:30:00] <GammaX> Im in denver
[15:30:04] <ssi> that's a smidge far
[15:30:23] <Nick001-Shop> mine can leak on occasion and just open and close it to stop the leak
[15:30:32] <r00t4rd3d> im in ny and ill fly back
[15:30:33] <GammaX> and I know nothing about machining but I just got 2 cnc machines and opened a shop... havntmade a piece yet! lol I think you can figure out some pneumatics! :D
[15:30:34] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: no I think I just reassembled the valve block wrong
[15:30:59] <ssi> r00t4rd3d: fly what back?
[15:31:11] <r00t4rd3d> to your shop :)
[15:31:14] <r00t4rd3d> in your plane
[15:31:16] <ssi> hahah
[15:31:26] <ssi> ny is doable
[15:31:28] <ssi> would cost me a pile tho
[15:31:38] <r00t4rd3d> i dont even know what you want to do
[15:31:42] <GammaX> ssi you said youd pay!
[15:31:43] <ssi> yeah
[15:31:49] <r00t4rd3d> i just wanna fly your plane
[15:31:52] <ssi> I want to have my machine run again
[15:31:58] <ssi> I'd let you fly if you can fix it :P
[15:32:06] <Nick001-Shop> no discount on areo fuel - how cruel
[15:32:09] <r00t4rd3d> id probably be better at flying
[15:32:10] <GammaX> ssi just take it a part and take lots of photos!
[15:32:26] <ssi> I'll dive back into it soon enough
[15:32:36] <r00t4rd3d> what kinda machine is it?
[15:32:38] <ssi> right now I have machines to build with paying customers
[15:32:41] <ssi> r00t4rd3d: hardinge HNC
[15:33:19] <r00t4rd3d> hmm, looks like there would be a learning curve to that
[15:33:24] <GammaX> are we allowed to do system updates but NOT system upgrades or neither?
[15:33:36] <ssi> r00t4rd3d: I have a handle on the machine... I did a full conversion already
[15:33:46] <ssi> the pneumatics for the toolchanger are busted and I don't know pneumatics
[15:34:01] <ssi> I even have pneumo schematics for it
[15:35:08] <r00t4rd3d> its not working at all?
[15:35:22] <r00t4rd3d> or you are not sure how to work it
[15:35:33] <ssi> it was working, and then it broke
[15:35:40] <GammaX> when trying to test an axis in stepconf I ge
[15:35:44] <ssi> and then I took it all apart and replaced a broken part and put it back together, and now it's different broke
[15:36:53] <GammaX> when trying to test x axis in stepconf I get typeerror: %d format: a number is required, not nonetype. on the other axis I get broken pipe but im assuming thats because the machine is not hooked up to the steppers. Any thoughts?
[15:38:02] <JT-Shop> on a stepper config it don't matter if the steppers are hooked up or not
[15:38:31] <r00t4rd3d> sim mode?
[15:39:59] <r00t4rd3d> ssi fly over to the uk and get andypugh
[15:40:10] <r00t4rd3d> he is probably the guy to help you with that
[15:40:55] <ssi> yeah, I wish I could
[15:41:07] <ssi> someone I was talking to on here was in sweden :/
[15:41:07] <Nick001-Shop> is the tool changer doing anything?
[15:41:10] <ssi> I forget who it was
[15:41:26] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: so before I took it apart, it acted like it had no power
[15:41:32] <r00t4rd3d> he has some of those lathe/mill/cnc monstrosities
[15:41:45] <ssi> the turret would attempt to lift up, but it couldn't get off the dogs
[15:41:52] <ssi> and if I helped lift it up, it would half-heartedly turn
[15:42:01] <ssi> and I think that was due to the broken checkvalve which was causing it to leak internally
[15:42:07] <ssi> now I've replaced that checkvalve
[15:42:12] <ssi> ($300)
[15:42:21] <GammaX> r00t4rd3d no sim mode....
[15:42:24] <ssi> but now something in the valveblock leaks as soon as I turn the machine on
[15:42:34] <GammaX> JT-Shop any thoughts?
[15:42:48] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a controller hooked up?
[15:42:51] <Nick001-Shop> disconnect one inlet line at a time and put an airgun to it to see if it operates or leakes
[15:42:55] <GammaX> ssi, spray some carb cleaner on it... look for leaks...
[15:43:00] <GammaX> or wd-40.
[15:43:04] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: have you been in that stuff yet?
[15:43:06] <ssi> it's not easy to do that way
[15:43:26] <ssi> there's an aluminum block that's got a mess of holes machined in it
[15:43:32] <ssi> there's an 8-port clipper valve screwed to it
[15:43:44] <ssi> it's possible that valve is dead
[15:43:48] <ssi> but I have no good way to test it
[15:43:53] <Nick001-Shop> a littel - need to remove the x axis cover to get at them
[15:44:28] <ssi> yeah
[15:44:31] <Nick001-Shop> or the front top cover to get at another valve
[15:45:13] <ssi> I haven't been in that side yet
[15:45:25] <ssi> I think that's the side that runs the turret cushion or some such nonsense
[15:45:33] <ssi> that whole system scares the crap out of me
[15:45:41] <Nick001-Shop> or ship the machine to my shop so I can fool mess it
[15:45:41] <ssi> also I actually took the turret off when I was troubleshooting it
[15:45:43] <ssi> kinda wish I hadn't
[15:45:51] <ssi> I don't mean the turret top
[15:45:53] <ssi> I mean the turret
[15:45:56] <ssi> it's scary as hell under there
[15:46:12] <ssi> it's possible I might have screwed up some o-rings in that
[15:46:25] <ssi> anyway, point is, I wonder what it'd cost to pay someone who knows wtf they're doing to come put it right
[15:46:30] <Nick001-Shop> did you mark the gear location?
[15:46:42] <ssi> nope
[15:46:45] <ssi> shouldn't matter
[15:46:48] <ssi> I've had the air motor out too
[15:47:12] <ssi> the only thing that's position-sensitive is the encoder, and I can always readjust that when I'm done if necessary
[15:47:24] <Nick001-Shop> it does - I did that and it took days to get the timing right
[15:47:32] <ssi> timing of what
[15:48:50] <generic_nick> positioning the toolchanger encoder is a PITA
[15:49:16] <Nick001-Shop> the turret indexing - the turret can be out of position when the cylinder goes down
[15:49:16] <ssi> yeah, but that's the least of my worries right now
[15:49:26] <ssi> that should just be encoder timing
[15:49:39] <generic_nick> ok im reading the manual and maybe i missed it, but on the 7i48 for connectors p2-p4, is pin #1 on the bottom or the top?
[15:49:48] <generic_nick> i would guess bottom, but i want to make sure
[15:49:58] <Nick001-Shop> slow typer so it takes me time to answer
[15:50:09] <ssi> I'm working from memory, but I think it's the side of the board opposite the 5Vdc terminal block
[15:50:14] <ssi> if that answers your question
[15:50:54] <generic_nick> yea i think you're right, i just noticed a schematic that points to that
[15:50:59] <generic_nick> gracias
[15:51:25] <generic_nick> a few minutes away from testing a servo
[15:51:32] <generic_nick> hope these drives are good lol
[15:51:37] <ssi> what machine are you working on?
[15:51:50] <ssi> HNC?
[15:53:02] <generic_nick> shizuoka
[15:53:05] <generic_nick> mill
[15:53:13] <ssi> oh ok
[16:00:04] <ssi> so I'm working on an atrump machine
[16:00:11] <ssi> it was a centroid-retrofit machine from the early 90s
[16:00:17] <ssi> and I'm converting it over to linuxcnc
[16:00:30] <ssi> trying to find servo drives that'll work, and it's not as easy as I'd like :(
[16:03:02] <skunkworks> what are the servos?
[16:03:09] <L84Supper> what type?
[16:03:27] <ssi> they're SEM MTS30F4-52 servos
[16:03:37] <ssi> brushed DC, 140V, 18A max, 3.4A continuous
[16:03:38] <skunkworks> brushed?
[16:03:41] <ssi> 2700rpm
[16:03:48] <ssi> 95% of all servo drives are 80V
[16:04:00] <ssi> and I'm guessing the power supply that I'll have in the old control will be 80V
[16:04:03] <ssi> er
[16:04:05] <ssi> 140V
[16:04:10] <L84Supper> ssi: and you want to keep those motors?
[16:04:16] <ssi> in a perfect world, yes
[16:04:31] <ssi> although it may be cheaper to get different motors and cheap 80v drives than to try to get 140v drives
[16:06:00] <L84Supper> ssi: anything unique about the motor mounts, case, output shafts?
[16:06:11] <ssi> nothing that I'm aware of yet
[16:06:13] <L84Supper> if not why not just change them?
[16:06:15] <ssi> I haven't disassembled anything about it yet
[16:06:26] <ssi> I'm doing this conversion as a contract
[16:07:02] <ssi> changing out at least one of the servos will require disassembling the machine to some degree I think
[16:07:05] <ssi> and that's not ideal
[16:07:36] <ssi> AMC BX15A20 drives look like they'd work for me
[16:07:41] <ssi> and there's a guy on ebay that has at least two of them
[16:07:44] <L84Supper> the Mesa 7129 should be able to drive them
[16:08:26] <ssi> I don't know anything about mesa's motor drivers
[16:08:55] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:08:55] <L84Supper> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i29man.pdf take a look, ask pcw
[16:09:06] <L84Supper> pcw_home: ^^
[16:12:08] <Connor> Okay, so, any major issues using a single input for all homes and limits besides only being able to home a single axis at a time, and not knowing via software which axis tripped the limit ?
[16:12:50] <ssi> nah, it's fine
[16:13:04] <ssi> plenty of machines home one axis at a time anyway
[16:30:56] <generic_nick> wasnt there a hostmot2 section in the hal and integrator manual?
[16:35:24] <generic_nick> did the whole manual change?
[16:39:37] <JT-Shop> it has been reorginized several years ago
[16:39:56] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
[16:42:09] <generic_nick> thanks, fingered it out (hopefully)
[16:50:01] <generic_nick> ugh now my pins all changed with the 7i48.
[16:51:25] <generic_nick> anyone know what firmware im supposed to use with the 7i48?
[16:51:30] <generic_nick> on a 5i20
[16:56:10] <generic_nick> SV12_2X7I48_72/
[16:56:12] <generic_nick> ?
[16:56:14] <r00t4rd3d> lasered paper http://imgur.com/a/hcbkW
[16:56:32] <Tom_itx> generic_nick wait for pcw_home he knows
[16:58:01] <generic_nick> now im getting an error for dos style line endings
[16:58:06] <generic_nick> ugh.
[16:58:46] <JT-Shop> that usually means you opened a file in windblows...
[16:59:49] <generic_nick> nope, this file was used for years and i just changed it on linux in gedit
[16:59:56] <generic_nick> now its throwing the error
[17:00:04] <generic_nick> ill see if ican figure it out
[17:04:13] <r00t4rd3d> best way to learn
[17:15:55] <generic_nick> k figured that out, however the motor runs away when the drive has power
[17:16:05] <generic_nick> instantly, full rpm
[17:16:24] <generic_nick> if the tach was reversed, would it do that?
[17:21:43] <generic_nick> hmm that seems to be it, now its holding with it reversed
[17:52:19] <generic_nick> pcw_home: are there supposed to be any flashing amber lights on the 7i48?
[17:54:27] <generic_nick> it's reading the encoder properly, but im not sure if its supplying +-10v to the drive when i try to jog.
[17:54:44] <Tom_itx> put a meter on it
[17:55:15] <generic_nick> yea thats the plan, i just have to increase the ferror so i can actually do that without it giving a following error
[17:55:32] <generic_nick> i was just curious about the flashing amber led's.
[18:06:05] <generic_nick> i see no voltage
[18:07:04] <generic_nick> the motor moves when i supply 9v from a small power supply, and reverses when i reverse the polarity so i know it isnt the drives
[18:09:28] <generic_nick> ah maybe its the enable inputs
[18:12:31] <generic_nick> well crap, the enable outputs have no voltage either.
[18:32:09] <JT-Shop> GammaX: making chips?
[19:05:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZoTmtdn2U&feature=share
[19:25:54] <Connor> God, I hate cleaning..
[19:44:01] <tjtr33> KimK, hello, is the NCL mentioned at Stuart's related to http://www.ncl.ucar.edu/Download/install.shtml ?
[19:44:03] <tjtr33> ( might just be acronym overloading )
[19:45:35] <tjtr33> eh, looks like geo-physical cad, nm
[19:51:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/pages/nccs_home.html
[19:53:08] <KimK> tjtr33: Tom_itx beat me to it, that looks right. Thanks, Tom.
[19:56:08] <Tom_itx> i bet it's $$$ too
[19:56:30] <Tom_itx> i know what i gave for mine 20 yrs ago
[20:19:30] <generic_nick> well i guess my 7i48 is still bad, but i got everything else wired up and all servos are holding.
[20:19:57] <generic_nick> which means the drives and motors should be ok i guess
[20:23:40] <generic_nick> temporarily im going to put in the 7i33 so i can at least use the mill until i get my new 7i48 in
[20:24:18] <Tom_itx> there was a problem with the 48?
[20:24:25] <generic_nick> yes
[20:24:49] <generic_nick> power suply or something in it.
[20:34:49] <skunkworks> ssi: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-X17-B15A20C-Brushless-Servo-Amplifier-/390414269516?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae680fc4c
[20:38:53] <skunkworks> ssi: actually - I am not 100% sure that will run brushed.. Normally the B's will do both but the spec sheet doesn't say on that one...
[20:41:07] <skunkworks> ssi: eh - looks like all do.. http://www.a-m-c.com/download/support/an-007.pdf
[20:58:24] <tjtr33> Tom_itx thx, i saw NCSS but hoped for open src :(
[20:59:08] <Tom_itx> good luck finding open source on something like that
[21:58:00] <tjtr33> well i uploaded a deb for apt360 a year back, iirc its for 10.04
[22:00:50] <tjtr33> see Dan Falcks site http://opensourcedesigntools.blogspot.com/2012/06/apt360-websockets-demonstration-apt360.html
[22:01:04] <tjtr33> its a true APT build
[22:02:31] <tjtr33> i cant find the deb now, but Dan drops in here occasionally
[22:06:55] <Connor> okay, so, what's with all the talk about Beagle Boards and Bone's and Pi's on the mailing list.. why do people want to run LinuxCNC on such a lower powered machine ?
[22:08:22] <r00t4rd3d> cost
[22:08:30] <r00t4rd3d> simplicity
[22:08:36] <r00t4rd3d> compact
[22:09:08] <r00t4rd3d> the opposite of your wife
[22:09:13] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[22:09:28] <Connor> They're underpowered to run the GUI are they not ?
[22:09:48] <r00t4rd3d> nah
[22:10:00] <tjtr33> headless i thought, offloading the io handling
[22:10:10] <r00t4rd3d> plenty of light weight gui's
[22:11:10] <r00t4rd3d> The UDOO is what I want to see going
[22:11:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/435742530/udoo-android-linux-arduino-in-a-tiny-single-board
[22:12:20] <tjtr33> splitting out hal might be closer to the skinny
[22:13:03] <tjtr33> dinner bbl
[22:15:33] <gamma-x> ok i cant get any axis' to move on my mill with either linuxcnc or mach3...
[22:16:03] <gamma-x> any thoughts?
[22:16:09] <r00t4rd3d> power or controller
[22:16:46] <gamma-x> everything is getting power...
[22:17:15] <gamma-x> all drives have green light and are wired correctly.... breakout board only has the x axis hooked up currently.
[22:17:17] <r00t4rd3d> guessing or tested with multimeter ?
[22:18:05] <gamma-x> well the steppers are "locked" when the power is on... i can turn it by hand but its in very small incriments as its jutters.
[22:19:35] <r00t4rd3d> did you run stepconf and do the test axis stuff?
[22:20:22] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, the test axis has been throwin error codes.
[22:21:11] <r00t4rd3d> did you install from the livecd or compile?
[22:21:32] <gamma-x> live cd
[22:21:46] <gamma-x> well... didnt boot into livecd... just installed.
[22:21:46] <r00t4rd3d> did you do the jitter test
[22:21:52] <gamma-x> yeah
[22:21:58] <r00t4rd3d> what was the numbers
[22:22:11] <gamma-x> i want to say 1500 or 15000
[22:22:24] <gamma-x> its a newer dell pc.
[22:22:58] <r00t4rd3d> single axis geckos?
[22:23:21] <gamma-x> chinese kind controllers
[22:23:26] <gamma-x> 7.2 ma860h
[22:23:33] <r00t4rd3d> well theres your problem
[22:23:49] <gamma-x> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-5-Axis-Breakout-Board-3x-MA860H-Stepper-Driver-2-6-7-2A-Nema23-Nema34-Nema42-/251255616577?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3a80007441
[22:25:30] <r00t4rd3d> are you guessing what to put in the Parallel Port setup when you run stepconf?
[22:26:11] <gamma-x> for the pins I know whats what according to the schematic atleast...
[22:27:07] <skunkworks> is there a watch-dog or charge pump on the board
[22:27:16] <skunkworks> ?
[22:27:27] <skunkworks> or an enable of some sort?
[22:27:51] <r00t4rd3d> 10 dips
[22:28:02] <r00t4rd3d> err 8
[22:28:40] <gamma-x> skunkworks, I dont know what you mean, There is enable... Thats pin 1
[22:28:42] <r00t4rd3d> is 1 in the up or down position?
[22:29:01] <gamma-x> http://www.savebase.com/infobase/downloads/Breakout_Board_Stepper_Driver/User_Manual_5_axis_Breakout_board.pdf
[22:31:07] <gamma-x> its prolly easier to give you that ^^^ than to try and explain what i think I know.. lol
[22:36:44] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, any thoughts? Im baffled at this point! lol
[22:36:45] <r00t4rd3d> have you searched cnczone.com for someone else with that board?
[22:36:54] <gamma-x> not yet
[22:37:26] <r00t4rd3d> i would try to find someone else who has a working setup with that board
[22:37:51] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you have a setting or dip wrong
[22:38:29] <gamma-x> i currently have all the dips in the on position on the drives... maby that why
[22:39:30] <r00t4rd3d> pretty low amps
[22:39:40] <r00t4rd3d> what are your motors rated?
[22:39:45] <gamma-x> 560
[22:39:54] <r00t4rd3d> no for amps
[22:40:13] <gamma-x> wait there all on...
[22:40:16] <gamma-x> uhhh
[22:40:39] <r00t4rd3d> all on would be 2.6a peak and 1.8a average
[22:40:56] <r00t4rd3d> if you have 560oz-in steppers iam sure they require more power then that
[22:41:07] <Tom_itx> that's pretty low for a cnc stepper
[22:41:43] <gamma-x> 570 oz In. Hybrid Motor
[22:41:43] <gamma-x> 1.8° /200 Steps Per Rev.
[22:41:43] <gamma-x> 5 Amps Current Per Phase
[22:41:43] <gamma-x> 4-wire Bi-polar, NEMA 23 Frame
[22:41:48] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[22:41:52] <r00t4rd3d> they want 5amps
[22:42:14] <Tom_itx> if those drivers only put out 2.6a even at peak, they're not big enough
[22:42:28] <gamma-x> drivers put out 7.2A
[22:42:42] <r00t4rd3d> you can set his controller to 7.2a peak and 5.0a avg
[22:43:04] <r00t4rd3d> turn 123 to off
[22:43:15] <r00t4rd3d> well try on off off first
[22:43:40] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, there ALL off, I made mistake before
[22:44:29] <gamma-x> that could be my problem....
[22:44:39] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[22:44:47] <r00t4rd3d> there is no step config for all off
[22:44:49] <gamma-x> there is no all off on those drivers for sw5-sw8
[22:45:09] <r00t4rd3d> turn 5678 on
[22:45:55] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, would that be best "resolution"
[22:46:12] <r00t4rd3d> no clue
[22:46:57] <r00t4rd3d> Tom_itx, http://www.gbeshop.com/InfoBase/SAVEBASE/PKG/003000/Image/MA860H_1.jpg
[22:49:12] <r00t4rd3d> those are the dip settings on his board
[22:49:25] <Tom_itx> i'd set the current a bit lower until you get it figured out
[22:50:43] <Tom_itx> and if it's driven from a parallel port you don't want the microstepping too high because the port won't keep up
[22:50:56] <Tom_itx> the mesa cards can because they're externally clocked
[22:51:35] <Tom_itx> the microstepping rate must match your config steps per rev too
[22:51:41] <Tom_itx> in the ini
[22:51:54] <r00t4rd3d> thats probably his issue
[22:51:58] <gamma-x> I am trying to keep it cheap for now so no mesa currently :(
[22:52:03] <gamma-x> unless someone has a used one!
[22:52:10] <Tom_itx> go for a low microstep then
[22:52:14] <r00t4rd3d> should just got a tb6560 :)
[22:52:21] <Tom_itx> mesa and gecko are both awesome
[22:52:31] <r00t4rd3d> really?
[22:52:39] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't trade em
[22:53:02] <r00t4rd3d> gamma-x, you can get the single axis geckos for $60
[22:53:17] <Tom_itx> i got the 203v x 3
[22:53:21] <gamma-x> these drivers.. while chinese are supposed to be realy good
[22:53:38] <Tom_itx> give em a go, just set the current low and the steps low
[22:53:44] <Tom_itx> until you get it going
[22:53:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/gecko-g251x-stepper-motor-driver-4-cnc-milling-machine-mill-lathe-router-/160720512970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256bb067ca
[22:54:40] <r00t4rd3d> ill be getting those soon to replace my tb6560
[22:55:00] <Tom_itx> i went with individual drivers on mine
[22:55:05] <Tom_itx> instead of the 4 pack
[22:55:15] <r00t4rd3d> cheaper
[22:55:34] <r00t4rd3d> by like 150
[22:55:36] <Tom_itx> the 203 handle more voltage iirc
[22:55:47] <Tom_itx> more voltage means faster step rates
[22:56:11] <jdh> not really
[22:56:17] <Tom_itx> up to a point
[22:56:21] * r00t4rd3d FIGHT!
[22:56:28] <Tom_itx> no
[22:56:28] <jdh> higher step frequency means higher step rates
[22:56:40] <Tom_itx> once the coils saturate you won't get any more from them
[22:57:05] <Tom_itx> jdh, higher voltage allows for that as the chopper reaches peak quicker
[22:57:27] <jdh> semantics perhaps,.
[22:57:32] <Tom_itx> you won't need to worry about optimum on a parallel port anyway
[22:57:43] <jdh> step rate vs. how fast the step steps
[22:57:57] <Tom_itx> same thing just put a different way i suppose
[22:58:21] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: 20 bucks on tom, in the fourth round.
[22:58:42] <jdh> no, if you put out a 10khz pulse stream, it would have a higher step rate than a 1khz pulse train
[22:58:51] <Tom_itx> duh
[22:59:15] <Tom_itx> but the steppers have to be able to keep up with it without loosing steps
[22:59:38] <jdh> sure, but step rate is from pulses, step speed is from voltage
[22:59:40] <Tom_itx> that's where the higher voltage comes in to play as it allows the peak current to peak quicker
[22:59:57] <jdh> not that this is relevant to anything
[23:00:11] <r00t4rd3d> 1,2,3,4...
[23:00:22] <gamma-x> ive heard the keling 570oz steppers fair realy well
[23:00:40] <jdh> gamma-x: I, and connor have them on our G0704s
[23:00:44] <gamma-x> im running 15amp 50-55v PS
[23:00:46] <Tom_itx> gamma-x, are those the nema23's?
[23:00:57] <Tom_itx> that's about what mine is
[23:01:00] <gamma-x> yup, I have a 1200 nema 34 on the z
[23:01:06] <Tom_itx> 50v 18A
[23:01:13] <FinboySlick> On the topic of steppers, I had a question. 5mm pitch ballscrews, 200 step steppers, using um.. 1/4 microstepping, are the facets in my circles due to code or is it just not enough microstepping to make a round seem round?
[23:01:47] <gamma-x> whats better. higher or lower microstepping?
[23:02:01] <jdh> lower is better torque
[23:02:07] <r00t4rd3d> what works
[23:02:09] <FinboySlick> gamma-x: Depends on the torque you want.
[23:02:16] <Tom_itx> i like the geckos because they smooth it all out
[23:02:21] <Tom_itx> they are 10 microstep
[23:02:23] <Tom_itx> no switching
[23:02:25] <jdh> higher is better psuedoresolution and mid-range smoothing
[23:03:25] <r00t4rd3d> most people run 1/2 microstep right?
[23:03:33] <Tom_itx> i'm running 10
[23:03:39] <jdh> fin: 0.0625mm/step. Is that sufficient for your needs?
[23:03:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.gbeshop.com/InfoBase/SAVEBASE/PKG/003000/Image/MA860H_1.jpg
[23:03:52] <Tom_itx> so 40000 steps per inch iirc
[23:04:03] <r00t4rd3d> what would 5 6 7 8 be set at for 1/2 ?
[23:04:16] <jdh> on
[23:04:22] <Tom_itx> i closed it
[23:04:23] <r00t4rd3d> 400?
[23:04:48] <jdh> yes
[23:04:59] <r00t4rd3d> gamma-x, try that
[23:05:05] <jdh> assuming you have a normal 1.8° motor
[23:05:10] <gamma-x> I plan on it.
[23:05:11] <r00t4rd3d> and lower the amps
[23:05:25] <gamma-x> lower the amps...
[23:05:26] <r00t4rd3d> and make sure you have stepconf set to 1/2 microstep
[23:05:37] <jdh> keling sells two different 570's. One has oddly low amps
[23:05:56] <FinboySlick> jdh: I might have bee lying. I seem to remember setting microstepping to about 0.02mm/step.
[23:06:01] <gamma-x> I think myne are 5... not sure lemme look
[23:06:13] <Tom_itx> the first one i saw was 5A
[23:06:25] <Tom_itx> in the nema23 package
[23:06:47] <r00t4rd3d> gamma-x, if all your motors are different each controller will have to be set to that motor
[23:06:56] <r00t4rd3d> power wise atleast
[23:07:04] <jdh> what driver?
[23:07:11] <r00t4rd3d> china man
[23:07:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.gbeshop.com/InfoBase/SAVEBASE/PKG/003000/Image/MA860H_1.jpg
[23:07:21] <Tom_itx> there's the jumper sheet i think
[23:07:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-5-Axis-Breakout-Board-3x-MA860H-Stepper-Driver-2-6-7-2A-Nema23-Nema34-Nema42-/251255616577?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3a80007441
[23:07:34] <r00t4rd3d> thats the board
[23:07:38] <r00t4rd3d> 's
[23:07:56] <r00t4rd3d> i can get a gecko 540 for cheaper then that
[23:08:03] <Tom_itx> i'd start around 3.5A and work my way up once it's working
[23:08:06] <gamma-x> yeah I got 5 amp
[23:08:18] <jdh> oh, the leadshine clones
[23:08:19] <FinboySlick> jdh: I was mostly curious to know what step size typically gives you 'can't see the difference' smoothing when it comes to circles. I probably need more variables for that.
[23:09:00] <jdh> the real resolution doesn't really match the math
[23:09:11] <r00t4rd3d> gamma-x, i didnt have any help setting up my board and i could tell just by the sound of my motors i was doing something wrong
[23:09:13] <jdh> other than as step count.
[23:09:25] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, lol noted.
[23:09:42] <Tom_itx> just don't blow it up if you're not sure
[23:10:00] <pcw_home> Somewhere around 32 is the point of diminishing returns for noise/vibration elimination
[23:10:08] <FinboySlick> I'll probably rebuild my mill completely once I finally have room. I'm finally building a house.
[23:11:04] <gamma-x> r00t4rd3d, should I be lookin at peak or avg?
[23:11:08] <FinboySlick> I'll be able to dedicate the whole basement (and its precious concrete floor) to the mill and other implements of maiming.
[23:11:08] <gamma-x> for amps
[23:11:26] <r00t4rd3d> im new, you should be asking the others :)
[23:11:37] <jdh> I'd have lots of room for my stuff if I could get rid of my wife's car.
[23:12:08] <Tom_itx> gamma-x, i'd set switches 1-3 on on off to begin with.. that's 3.6A
[23:12:26] <Tom_itx> then work your way up to fry
[23:12:39] <gamma-x> Tom_itx, lol how do I know where to stop realistichly?
[23:12:40] <r00t4rd3d> he already had them maxed
[23:13:04] <Tom_itx> if you can cook on the steppers, they're too hot
[23:13:07] <r00t4rd3d> or wait, miniumumed
[23:13:33] <gamma-x> that is correct. But hopefully becuase of not being able to move them.... no voltage went in! lol
[23:13:35] <Tom_itx> they will get hotter while idle then when running
[23:13:55] <Tom_itx> unless the driver has current idle reduction
[23:14:20] <Tom_itx> another notch in gecko's belt
[23:14:21] <gamma-x> they wernt hot to touch at all
[23:14:29] <tjtr33> if you've not used steppers before: warm & even uncomfortable hot is ok for stepper motors, but hurt hot is nfg
[23:14:46] <gamma-x> tjtr33, good point thanks!
[23:14:57] <Tom_itx> you don't wanna melt the enamel off the wires inside
[23:15:00] <gamma-x> what should I put for sw4?
[23:15:15] <jdh> I have one at work that is ~10 years old. Will cause blisters.
[23:15:24] <Tom_itx> i dunno what that's for
[23:15:33] <jdh> runs off an ancient huge Polyspede driver
[23:15:33] <r00t4rd3d> i think thats like decay mode
[23:15:37] <Tom_itx> jdh, heh
[23:15:42] <jdh> 4 is idle current reduction
[23:15:53] <gamma-x> on is work-full/standstill-full off is work-full/standstill-half
[23:16:02] <Tom_itx> turn it off
[23:16:07] <Tom_itx> for half standstill
[23:16:14] <jdh> off makes the cooler, but less holding torque when idle
[23:16:22] <Tom_itx> that'll reduce heat when they're idle
[23:16:30] <tjtr33> oldies like slo-syns didnt cause blisters, so hurt hot is at the edge of their range
[23:16:42] <jdh> it is an ancient blue slo-syn
[23:16:54] <tjtr33> ah, used loads of those
[23:17:10] <Tom_itx> then start with 2 microstep and work your way up
[23:17:12] <r00t4rd3d> for testing wouldnt ON be better then screw with the conservative stuff after its running correctly?
[23:17:29] <gamma-x> jdh, do I really need holding torque? Not sure of the concept...
[23:17:53] <Tom_itx> gamma-x, that's like the idle current reduction i just mentioned
[23:18:01] <jdh> depends on what you are doing. If you are cutting strictly horizontal or vertical, you might need it
[23:18:45] <FinboySlick> gamma-x: A good example of holding torque not doing its job: The head slowly dropping down while milling a horizontal surface.
[23:18:57] <gamma-x> ahhhh
[23:19:11] <gamma-x> well then for the z as it ways a lot I will have that on!
[23:19:13] <Tom_itx> i'd also put a counterbalance on Z
[23:19:31] <gamma-x> Tom_itx, even with a 1200oz?
[23:19:34] <Tom_itx> takes less motor to move it that way too
[23:19:53] <Tom_itx> elevators use em :)
[23:20:05] <Tom_itx> that big mill at Stuart's uses them
[23:20:22] <gamma-x> the thought of it just sounds like lots more work! lol I need to start recouping some money otherwyse my girl is gonna kill me!
[23:20:35] <FinboySlick> Just don't accelerate up past 1G ;)
[23:20:57] <gamma-x> ok so what I have for my x and y so far is on,on,off,off,on,on,on,on
[23:21:15] <Tom_itx> sounds fair for a start
[23:21:39] <Tom_itx> midrange current, idle reduction and 2 microstep
[23:21:55] <gamma-x> yessir
[23:22:20] <gamma-x> id like to have on off off for the amps...
[23:22:27] <Tom_itx> i don't even know what mill this is going on
[23:22:34] <gamma-x> rf45 clone
[23:22:59] <gamma-x> pm45cnc to be exact..
[23:23:39] <Tom_itx> that looks decent
[23:23:45] <Tom_itx> better than what i have
[23:24:04] <gamma-x> for my z I will have off off off on on on on on
[23:24:43] <Tom_itx> i'd turn current reduction on
[23:24:54] <Tom_itx> and try it
[23:24:57] <gamma-x> the z head is super heavy
[23:25:04] <Tom_itx> counterweight
[23:25:06] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:25:10] <gamma-x> dont wanna! lol
[23:25:32] <Tom_itx> keep an eye on heat
[23:25:36] <FinboySlick> gamma-x: Mine uses a pneumatic spring to counter the weight.
[23:25:52] <gamma-x> FinboySlick, what mill you have?
[23:25:54] <Tom_itx> it just makes sense to use one
[23:26:06] <Tom_itx> of some type
[23:26:32] <gamma-x> FinboySlick, you have photos?
[23:26:33] <Tom_itx> it will save wear on the screw and everything else too
[23:26:49] <FinboySlick> gamma-x: One that looks great on paper but left me disappointed in practice :P http://www.syilamerica.com/machine_x5speed.php
[23:26:52] <gamma-x> ive seen some botched jobs in the counterweight dept ...
[23:27:13] <Tom_itx> mine isn't fancy but it's effective
[23:27:27] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: you mean the sweet little sherline?
[23:27:34] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:27:47] <Tom_itx> yeah and it's counterweight on z
[23:27:53] <gamma-x> lol
[23:28:05] <Tom_itx> big brass bar
[23:28:19] <tjtr33> cable & pulley & weight ?
[23:28:24] <Tom_itx> like 2.5" diameter
[23:28:24] <gamma-x> FinboySlick, pics of the counterspring?
[23:28:27] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:28:45] <FinboySlick> Tom_itx: Not really, it's hidden on the left side inside the housing I think.
[23:29:05] <Tom_itx> k. i'm out for today
[23:29:12] <FinboySlick> It's in the assembly plans though. Hopefully Chen didn't forget to put it in before lying on the inspection sheet ;)
[23:29:14] <gamma-x> my cabinet is on the back of my machine... idk how id mount a counterweight...
[23:29:29] <tjtr33> makes a diff to the accelerations, w/o counterweight its big diff in Z+ vs Z- accel
[23:29:40] <Tom_itx> sure is
[23:34:06] <Tom_itx> mount a couple gas shocks from a hatchback to the sides :)
[23:34:23] <gamma-x> lol classy!
[23:34:35] <jdh> X2's come with a gas shock
[23:34:42] <jdh> or is it a spring now
[23:34:47] <gamma-x> its an x2! lol
[23:34:56] <ssi> skunkworks: just saw your note on drives in the backscroll
[23:35:11] <ssi> skunkworks: those are the drives I'm looknig at.... there's a guy that has two in the US. The auction you linked is in Manila
[23:35:57] <gamma-x> ssi, make any headway on your lathe?
[23:36:01] <ssi> haven't touched it
[23:36:05] <ssi> in six months :)
[23:36:06] <jdh> http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2258&category=
[23:37:18] <gamma-x> id rather replace ball screw when the time comes! lol
[23:39:45] <gamma-x> one thing id LOVE to make is a att for the rf45's
[23:50:06] <Connor> a att ?
[23:55:42] <gamma-x> automatic tool changer, meant atc lol