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[02:09:20] <DJ9DJ> moin
[05:11:09] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:32:05] <lwizardl> hello
[05:52:21] <jthornton> morning
[06:08:14] <lwizardl> jthornton: you know much about cad designing ?
[06:10:33] <jthornton> depends, what is the question?
[06:11:52] <lwizardl> trying to learn how to do it in general. like for example taking a actual item and remaking it for use in cnc or 3d printers etc
[06:13:04] <lwizardl> watched a few videos and read a few guides online but they always seen to be focused on stuff like adobe illistrator
[06:18:16] * jthornton waits for the question...
[06:19:35] <lwizardl> whats the proper way to start building the model files for using in a cnc or 3d printer?
[06:20:02] <ReadError> Start menu -> Solidworks
[06:20:03] <ReadError> ;)
[06:20:11] <lwizardl> ReadError: lol nice
[06:20:41] <Loetmichel> ReadError: not necessarily.
[06:21:20] <Loetmichel> these casings for example are made with coreldraw8 and a bit of brains ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184
[06:21:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14145
[06:21:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160
[06:21:58] <lwizardl> like for example say i want to make a custom case for my cell phone. would I just start off by using a digital caliper to get measurements of the phone dimensions in mm and then max a box in say sketchup or blender (etc) and then just start to remove areas not needed?
[06:22:10] <Loetmichel> ... so: if you have the brains one can sometimes omit the 3d cad ;-)
[06:23:20] <lwizardl> nice case. what was the original hotswap hardware you used for the electronics
[06:23:24] <jthornton> I don't know anything about sketchup or blender but the first part your on track
[06:24:00] <ReadError> Loetmichel: that sounds miserable
[06:24:10] <Loetmichel> netgear readynas
[06:24:46] <Loetmichel> and its still complete in there, just has a new (RF dampening) "overcase"
[06:24:49] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[06:25:00] <Loetmichel> ReadError: why?
[06:25:55] <Loetmichel> lwizardl: ...and misses the original door.
[06:26:01] <lwizardl> Loetmichel: ah, i have been looking for some eide based units. I have old drives I want to transfer off the content and then get rid of the original drives. but everything now seems to be sata only
[06:26:30] <Loetmichel> lw: thats because ide is MUCH t slow nowadays
[06:26:53] <Loetmichel> just use an USB/ide converter to read tha old drives
[06:26:58] <Loetmichel> lwizardl
[06:27:15] <lwizardl> Loetmichel: yeah which is why I want to just get the content off and then trash the drives. yeah I did that in the past
[06:27:53] <lwizardl> seems ide drives have different patterns of molel and eide port and some of them just don't want to work with them
[06:28:10] <Loetmichel> thats not possible
[06:28:20] <lwizardl> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-3-5-Dual-IDE-SATA-OTB-USB-2-0-HDD-Docking-Station-Card-Reader-/271132703142?pt=US_Drive_Enclosures_Docks&hash=item3f20c4b9a6
[06:28:27] <Loetmichel> more likeley: tha old drives were formated in an odd way
[06:28:54] <lwizardl> I had one of those. and maxtor drives would not fit into it.
[06:29:05] <Loetmichel> FITIING is another probleb
[06:29:14] <lwizardl> yup
[06:29:23] <Loetmichel> problem, because the plug positions are not normed for ide
[06:30:00] <lwizardl> that dock had the molex connector that could be moved side to side to work with most patterns but my maxtors just refused to fit in it
[06:30:27] <Loetmichel> use something like this:
http://webshop.schneider-consulting.it/USB-zu-SATA-S-ATA-USB-zu-IDE-Adapter-One-Touch-Backup-Funktion-64cm-25-und-89cm-35-Festplatten
[06:30:43] <lwizardl> that dock had sections for sata drives in the back slot, and then 2.5" laptop and 3.5" desktop drives in the front
[06:30:58] <Loetmichel> i use something like that all the time
[06:31:21] <lwizardl> ah
[06:31:43] <Loetmichel> its just time to get some usb 3 variant now that the new sata disks approach transfer rates where it makes a difference
[07:13:24] <jthornton> new classicladder turret tool change example
http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/index.html
[07:30:02] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuOec305SQA
[07:30:03] <Tecan> (nuOec305SQA) "Electric Prunes 'To Much To Dream Last Night'" by "VinylPiper" is "Music" - Length: 0:03:32
[08:44:52] <mrsun> hmm how does ballscrew hold up to dust ?
[08:45:14] <mrsun> sure there will be a dust collector on the machine but that wont protect it from other sources of wood dust etc :/
[08:46:59] <archivist> one hides in some protective cover
[08:47:19] <mrsun> yes, but protective covers will eat away on the travel =)
[08:47:28] <mrsun> i was thinking covers like those ive seen on lathe leadscrew etc
[08:47:31] <archivist> my little lathe has a something like a clock spring
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_09_10_Starturn_cnc_lathe/P1010036.JPG
[08:47:33] <mrsun> round colapsing things
[08:47:47] <mrsun> just like those
[08:47:51] <mrsun> but its 1.5 meters of travel
[08:48:25] <mrsun> im leaning towards ballscrews else i was thinking toothed belts for driving it
[08:48:32] <mrsun> but that requires stronger motors =)
[08:50:24] <archivist> also there are covers like camera bellows
[08:50:47] <mrsun> mm but at 1.5 meters the colapsed with would be quite big whatever bellows i use :/
[08:51:08] <mrsun> width
[08:51:11] <mrsun> *length
[08:52:17] <archivist> some systems have a sprung/rubber opening in a slot to connect to the nut bellow
[08:52:59] <mrsun> i guess toothed belts would be cheaper also but problem there is if it flexes .. dont know how much a belt would flex over 1.5 meters
[08:56:16] <dutchfish> hi, i have a hardware question, are there any cnc devices for pcb prototyping what you guys would recommend to be used with linuxcnc?
[08:57:00] <dutchfish> i have been using kicad so far
[08:57:42] <dutchfish> i am rather new to this
[09:05:45] <r00t4rd3d> I would have Microcarve make me a mill if I only wanted to do PCB's
[09:05:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/109390-my_newest_desktop_machine-146.html#post1257450
[09:06:58] <r00t4rd3d> or some other brand of mini mill
[09:07:02] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[09:07:07] <ReadError> what are some good open source routers
[09:07:19] <ReadError> like 18x30 or somethin
[09:07:27] <r00t4rd3d> joes
[09:09:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/joes_cnc_model_2006/17279-joes_cnc_model_2006_r-1_a.html
[09:13:46] <dutchfish> r00t4rd3d, you mean like the mv3?
[09:14:05] <dutchfish> http://www.microcarve.com/mcMV1.html
[09:14:46] <r00t4rd3d> no
[09:14:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/109390-my_newest_desktop_machine-146.html#post1257450
[09:15:06] <r00t4rd3d> the one in that post
[09:15:15] <r00t4rd3d> I dont know if he is selling them yet though
[09:15:34] <r00t4rd3d> I do imagine the MV3 would do pcb's though
[09:15:37] <dutchfish> ah ic, i was rantically looking for a shop link, but i didnt found it
[09:15:45] <dutchfish> frantically*
[09:16:10] <dutchfish> it looks sturdy
[09:17:52] <skunkworks> dutchfish: I have used eagle with gcode.ulp with great success
[09:18:19] <dutchfish> skunkworks, yes, i have read about it
[09:19:10] <dutchfish> atm i am reviewin gmy options, it is for pcb prototyping and maybe some very small aluminium lathe work, like housings for vhf/uhf equipment
[09:20:10] <dutchfish> max format is eurocard format 16x10 cm
[09:20:22] <dutchfish> most of my projects are much smaller
[09:21:03] <dutchfish> but it need to be acurate
[09:21:15] <dutchfish> something like 5 mil lanes
[09:23:02] <dutchfish> another option would be a blue laser and developing after uv exposure
[09:25:08] <dutchfish> my mechanical skills are not great, i am more convident on open source software
[09:25:25] <dutchfish> hence my questions
[09:26:15] <dutchfish> i have looked at the china things on ebay, but no idee if i can pull it off with them
[09:28:10] <dutchfish> r00t4rd3d, any idee of costs of that type you showed me on that link?
[09:29:00] <L84Supper> dutchfish: you need 5 mil trace and space for 1-2 layer PCB's?
[09:29:16] <dutchfish> L84Supper, sorry, i meant 5 mil accurancy
[09:29:25] <dutchfish> or better
[09:29:38] <dutchfish> mostly for fpga packages
[09:30:51] <L84Supper> dutchfish: what packages are they using? PLCC? what pitch?
[09:31:46] <dutchfish> L84Supper, actel nano as an example
http://www.actel.com/images/products/igloo/IGLOO_3x3_finger_lg.jpg
[09:32:21] <dutchfish> (i admit that is th esmallest one)
[09:32:38] <L84Supper> that is a BGA
[09:32:43] <dutchfish> yep
[09:32:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, did you ever finish your gantry design?
[09:32:54] <L84Supper> how will you make your vias?
[09:33:20] <L84Supper> dutchfish: ^^
[09:33:28] <dutchfish> L84Supper, i have a galvanic plate though machine (if that translation of me is right)
[09:33:58] <dutchfish> L84Supper, atm i use photomethod with uv light
[09:34:08] <dutchfish> L84Supper, but thats hard
[09:34:42] <L84Supper> dutchfish: what are you having a hard time with?
[09:34:59] <L84Supper> milling is not the way to go for BGA's and multilayer
[09:36:20] <dutchfish> L84Supper, my biggest problem is the etch process over/under etching
[09:36:20] <L84Supper> dutchfish: are you currently using a UV emulsion resist?
[09:36:35] <dutchfish> L84Supper, yes
[09:37:37] <L84Supper> dutchfish: IMHO I'd just tweak your process to be more consistent vs mill, since you can already plate
[09:37:39] <dutchfish> L84Supper, just for the record i am no ways an expert, just a hobbyist
[09:38:21] <dutchfish> L84Supper, ok, maybe you have any tips on that subject, what am i doing wrong?
[09:38:53] <dutchfish> so far i control temperature, acurate solutions
[09:39:07] <L84Supper> consistency of materials, temperature and time
[09:39:13] <L84Supper> sounds like you are close
[09:39:19] <dutchfish> but the process sometimes produce excellent quality, at other times not
[09:39:40] <L84Supper> what changes in the process?
[09:40:31] <dutchfish> well, things like different raw material batches, like thickness aberations of the emulsion i suspect, uv lighting warm/cold start to mention a few
[09:41:02] <dutchfish> i use lab grade chemicals
[09:41:16] <dutchfish> so we can rule that one out
[09:41:31] <L84Supper> yeah UV lamps aren't made to turn on and off, whats the range of the photoinitiator in the UV photoresist?
[09:42:13] <dutchfish> +/- 12 % thats what the manufacturer promises
[09:42:32] <dutchfish> on the 54 boards
[09:42:46] <L84Supper> dutchfish: I was wondering the wavelength.
[09:43:08] <L84Supper> is that the exposer time variance that they give?
[09:43:15] <L84Supper> exposure
[09:43:33] <dutchfish> L84Supper,
http://www.microchemicals.eu/technical_information/exposure_photoresist.pdf
[09:43:55] <dutchfish> page 4
[09:44:53] <dutchfish> atm i do not use laser but fluorescent tubes, they are power controlled with a choppered regulator at 1.2khz
[09:44:54] <L84Supper> I'd use a 405nm LED array for consistency
[09:45:04] <dutchfish> ah ic
[09:45:32] <dutchfish> any link for a good supplier on those?
[09:45:48] <dutchfish> or type, brand?
[09:45:49] <L84Supper> I'm paying ~$3 per 3W 405nm led now
[09:46:18] <dutchfish> i dont mind the price, but i want to make sure, i have the corretc ones (consistancy)
[09:46:45] <dutchfish> you have there a very good point
[09:47:41] <L84Supper> I don't want to spoil your party but we've been working on methods to print the whole multilayer PCB with only fluids
[09:47:43] <dutchfish> maybe also some hints on exposure time on those?
[09:47:48] <L84Supper> not for sale yet though
[09:48:04] <dutchfish> you made me curieus
[09:48:41] <dutchfish> wow
[09:49:23] <L84Supper> the exposure time is factor of the sensitivity of the photoresist and the power density of the UV when it hits the resist
[09:49:32] <dutchfish> yep
[09:50:49] <dutchfish> how many of those leds you used on what surface size?
[09:51:07] <dutchfish> (too get an idee)
[09:51:45] <L84Supper> I see they have versions up to ~440nm are those the ones you are using?
[09:52:42] <dutchfish> i use fluorescent tubes, uv-c, th eones used in airflow cabinets, they have the fastest expose time.
[09:53:09] <dutchfish> 32 seconds for a eurocard
[09:53:38] <dutchfish> i have no idea about uv-leds, but maybe you can help me out with that?
[09:54:28] <L84Supper> http://hanhualed.en.alibaba.com/product/510069056-0/100w_UV_led_400_405nm_special_for_curing.html
[09:54:42] <dutchfish> http://www.leuchtmittelmarkt.com/themes/suche/index.php?sucheallgemein=tuv&gclid=CLuwk4T_27YCFcpb3godA2kANA
[09:54:43] <L84Supper> http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/100w-high-power-uv-led-curing.html
[09:54:55] <L84Supper> the prices have been falling like rocks lately
[09:55:27] <dutchfish> yes, i noticed, so you use 400nm ?
[09:55:47] <dutchfish> or the 430 ones
[09:56:30] <dutchfish> i suspect it doesnt make any big difference, it boils down to repreduceability
[09:56:38] <L84Supper> you want to match the led to the photoinitiators highest quantum efficiency wavelength
[09:56:46] <dutchfish> things like temperature and aging
[09:56:47] <L84Supper> for fastet cure
[09:57:00] <dutchfish> yes
[09:57:00] <L84Supper> but yeah consistency is key
[09:57:56] <dutchfish> also, temperature on leds can alter wavelength quiet easely by a lrage factor, contrary fluorescent tubes
[09:58:15] <dutchfish> so we need thta into consideration as well
[09:58:20] <L84Supper> page #2 of your doc shows the spectrum of sensitivity for various versions of the resist
[09:58:26] <dutchfish> yes
[09:58:38] <Tom_itx> what about fishtank IR bulbs?
[09:58:56] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: IR is too long
[09:58:56] <Tom_itx> err maybe those are UV
[09:59:19] <dutchfish> 440 nm would be king, but i think that is hard on leds
[09:59:21] <L84Supper> yeah fishtank UV leds are one of the big markets
[09:59:23] <Tom_itx> i use those to cure my UV paint
[09:59:39] <L84Supper> 420nm or less
[09:59:47] <L84Supper> they are probably using BAPO
[10:00:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: nope
[10:00:30] * dutchfish gets a toothage thinking about uv curable resins ;)
[10:01:39] <L84Supper> dutchfish: search for 405m LED lamps arrays, they are $1-3/w and dropping
[10:01:49] <dutchfish> anyway, thank you L84Supper and all who pointed me into the right direction
[10:01:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
[10:02:27] <Tom_itx> gawd that's slow today
[10:02:44] <L84Supper> dutchfish: I paid $3 ea last week for 3W 410nm leds, $30ea 3 months ago
[10:03:03] <dutchfish> yes
[10:03:31] <dutchfish> L84Supper, the same for blue laser diodes
[10:03:51] <dutchfish> L84Supper, sub 50 dollar for 2 watt
[10:04:24] <dutchfish> maybe i try both ways
[10:09:26] <dutchfish> sorry for my poor english
[10:09:48] <L84Supper> your spelling is better than mine today
[10:11:02] <L84Supper> the LED's and lasers are far more consistent souces of light
[10:11:50] <L84Supper> LED wavelength shift over temp is maybe 1nm
[10:12:59] <L84Supper> power output varies less than 1% over temp
[10:13:14] <L84Supper> lamps are all over the place :)
[10:14:30] <dutchfish> L84Supper, well, you would be surpised watch this (somewhere at the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpCQsB1VK24
[10:14:31] <Tecan> (MpCQsB1VK24) "Cryogenic Experiments on Passive and Active Electronic Components" by "TheSignalPathBlog" is "Tech" - Length: 0:41:06
[10:15:15] <dutchfish> at 37:00 somewhere
[10:16:06] <JT-Shop> dang BP would not boot with a USB drive plugged in
[10:16:28] <Tom_itx> my old pc does that
[10:17:58] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop when you draw an assembly or such for example your gantry mill, do you draw individual pieces then make an assembly from them or do you draw it all in one file?
[10:18:26] <Tom_itx> i've been learning more about my cad cam last few days and may start more on solidworks
[10:19:13] <JT-Shop> I draw the parts then insert them into an assembly then define the mates that constrain the parts
[10:19:34] <Tom_itx> is that hard to figure out?
[10:19:44] <Tom_itx> how to join all them in the right places..
[10:19:46] <JT-Shop> sometimes for a concept model I just make the assembly from one part
[10:19:57] <Tom_itx> i've been thru their tutorial a couple times
[10:20:04] <JT-Shop> no, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it
[10:20:35] <Tom_itx> i'd probably draw up an idea there and export it to my cad cam for output
[10:21:00] <Tom_itx> it's too old to do solids but it does wireframes fine
[10:21:04] <JT-Shop> often I will use construction lines to draw a + where I want something to mate up and draw a + on the mating parts that way it only takes two mates for fully define the location of the part
[10:22:00] <Tom_itx> i managed to get all cutting positions in one model last night. was learning how to use workplanes in my cad cam
[10:22:16] <Tom_itx> never really needed them as we would usually draw the separate positions as separate files
[10:22:53] <Tom_itx> now it's got tools coming in from all sides with G54..59 offsets for each
[10:23:25] <Tom_itx> probably not that practical since you need to make fixtures for each position normally
[10:23:53] <Tom_itx> on a vice job it would be handy
[10:24:08] <L84Supper> dutchfish: can you make them vary widely over temp? sure, but if you are designing for low variance over temp 10-70 C they are pretty consistent
[10:26:53] <L84Supper> dutchfish: what are the approx prices per Liter of those resists?
[10:32:30] <Tom_itx> circuit specialists carry them
[10:32:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/
[10:33:02] <Tom_itx> i used to get my etchant from them
[10:33:45] <Tom_itx> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/photo-chemicals
[10:44:54] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: he's using a UV photoresist that he costs on boards himself
[10:45:24] * arekm wonders if lack of backlash config in stepperconf wizard is intentional?
[10:45:24] <L84Supper> I was wondering what they charge per Liter for the resist
[10:46:36] <L84Supper> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/photo-chemicals just carries the pre-coated PCB and the developers and etchants
[10:47:32] <r00t4rd3d> "You sent a payment of $227.80 USD to CNC ROUTER PARTS LLC"
[10:47:36] <r00t4rd3d> meh
[10:48:52] <ReadError> what toys you get?
[10:49:27] <r00t4rd3d> gantry risers and another set of extended carriages
[10:49:38] <r00t4rd3d> going 2'x4'
[10:49:44] <ReadError> oh kewl
[10:49:49] <ReadError> you get the 3030 or 3060 ?
[10:49:53] <r00t4rd3d> 3030
[10:50:01] <ReadError> the 3060 extrusion
[10:50:06] <ReadError> must weigh like 80lb
[10:50:13] <ReadError> idk, its fricken heavy
[10:53:09] <PetefromTn> r00t4rd3d: what kinda router is that?
[10:53:41] <r00t4rd3d> what do you mean?
[10:53:51] <r00t4rd3d> a cnc router
[10:54:08] <ReadError> im running my CNC RP right now ;0
[10:55:03] <PetefromTn> Nevermind just found their website...
[10:55:36] <ReadError> finished $realjob, now im working $hobbyjob
[10:57:54] <L84Supper> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/oldham-zero-backlash-couplers-p-223.html why do these never seem to be in stock anywhere except for China?
[10:59:07] <jdh> I think I got mine from mcmaster
[11:00:10] <r00t4rd3d> "You sent a payment of 7.50 USD to T-Nutz.com"
[11:00:13] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[11:00:22] <r00t4rd3d> i like the company name
[11:10:52] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: "you doesent HAVE to be nuts to work here but it makes the job easier!" ;-)
[11:12:34] <ReadError> i need some tslot track
[11:12:39] <ReadError> ill order monday
[11:12:53] <ReadError> this routing out wood is for the birds
[11:23:07] <Loetmichel> [17:59] <ReadError> this routing out wood is for the birds ??
[11:23:27] <ReadError> yea
[11:23:32] <ReadError> tslotting wood for clamps
[11:25:10] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[11:25:16] <r00t4rd3d> did you get another bit?
[11:26:08] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[11:26:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[11:26:43] <ReadError> i used a bit
[11:26:48] <ReadError> but it just sucks
[11:26:56] <ReadError> would rather throw down some tslot
[11:27:04] <ReadError> the wood cant handle much pressure
[11:27:12] <ReadError> unless you find some really thick stuff
[11:27:25] <ReadError> i mostly cut 1 size of a sheet
[11:27:25] <r00t4rd3d> 3/4 laminate
[11:27:46] <ReadError> so i can screw down some tslot
[11:27:49] <ReadError> make my life easier
[11:31:02] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[11:31:14] <Loetmichel> i've seen t-sots in wood
[11:31:19] <Loetmichel> but not milled
[11:31:21] <Loetmichel> build
[11:31:31] <ReadError> i melted a bit
[11:31:41] <ReadError> like it came off glowing red
[11:31:44] <r00t4rd3d> key word, "i"
[11:31:51] <ReadError> may have been slipping in the collet
[11:32:01] <ReadError> i was using the cheap one it came with
[11:32:03] <ReadError> not my good set
[11:32:04] <Loetmichel> as in: get a 22mm Multiplex (plywood) plate, macke some stipes in 20 and 40mm of it, strew them on the bottom plate to resemble tslots
[11:32:44] <Loetmichel> make, stripes, screw...
[11:32:54] <Loetmichel> <- has to sort his fingers again ;-)
[11:35:24] <Loetmichel> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t8NZFmjpXek/TRI3514BOEI/AAAAAAAAABs/tACXu7zMWlo/s1600/Nutenplatte+SW.jpg
[11:35:28] <ReadError> tslot track is not that expensive
[11:35:29] <Loetmichel> i meant like this
[11:37:34] <ReadError> we have a rockler here
[11:37:49] <ReadError> but amazon is easier, and prime is awesome
[11:38:08] <r00t4rd3d> I got a board ready, think ill try my tslot bit today
[11:45:06] <ReadError> i ended up putting the board down on the router
[11:45:12] <ReadError> jogged it over
[11:55:12] <Tom_itx> L84Supper, you used to be able to get the resist in spray cans but i haven't looked or seen it for a while
[11:55:39] <Tom_itx> hard to get an even coat for proper exposures
[11:58:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=guide_pcb
[12:01:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.rapidonline.com/mechanical-fastenings-fixings/kontakt-chemie-positiv-20-spray-photo-resist-30091/
[12:05:36] * JT-Shop goes to take a nap but first http://imagebin.org/254862
[12:06:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is that 2 cycle?
[12:07:23] <Tom_itx> nevermind
[12:08:03] <JT-Shop> lol there hasn't been a 2 cycle lawn mower engine in a long time
[12:08:20] <Tom_itx> i see the float and ohv cover
[12:08:53] <Tom_itx> why a vertical shaft?
[12:09:41] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:10:12] <JT-Shop> that's what I had several of
[12:11:00] <Tom_itx> free for prototyping your equipment? :D
[12:11:10] <JT-Shop> yea
[12:11:15] <JT-Shop> for run off's
[12:11:54] <IchGuckLive> prototyping is what generates money
[12:13:43] <JT-Shop> I get part or whole engines to run off equipment before delivery and they don't want them back as they have fallen ouside the quality control once they leave the plant
[12:14:17] <ReadError> what is going on in that pic?
[12:14:24] <IchGuckLive> that is leagal in te USA
[12:14:51] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what a shame :)
[12:14:54] <IchGuckLive> selling parts that dident pass the controll
[12:15:21] <JT-Shop> it is a quality standard by the manufaturer not any law
[12:15:34] <Tom_itx> yeah
[12:15:49] <IchGuckLive> nice
[12:16:08] <JT-Shop> usually I just scrap the parts or partial engines
[12:16:14] <IchGuckLive> and the warrenty is by you
[12:16:29] <JT-Shop> the splitter is for me so yea
[12:16:59] <JT-Shop> now it is really nap time!
[12:19:16] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG9R0q9QJQc
[12:21:13] <IchGuckLive> r00t4rd3d: this is how all started
[12:21:31] <IchGuckLive> first 747 wars build on that stuff of mashines
[12:22:19] <IchGuckLive> second version where on taped tape mashiines
[12:24:08] <IchGuckLive> and first real buyable CNC wars in 1981
[12:24:33] <IchGuckLive> so now see how far we have moved from there
[12:25:13] <ReadError> lol
[12:25:31] <ReadError> hes going to have 1 really strong leg
[12:25:34] <ReadError> and 1 really weak one
[12:25:45] <IchGuckLive> 2 leg version
[12:25:50] <IchGuckLive> nore power
[12:25:53] <IchGuckLive> m
[12:26:05] <r00t4rd3d> i would just put a motor on it
[12:26:40] <IchGuckLive> its more werth twhen it is manpowerd
[12:26:59] <IchGuckLive> i woudt call national museum on that finished work
[12:27:09] <IchGuckLive> and dot do any painting on it
[12:27:31] <GammaX> Hey all
[12:27:42] <IchGuckLive> ah gamma our man on miling
[12:27:52] <IchGuckLive> 130 + retched
[12:27:56] <GammaX> heh, I dont know about that...
[12:28:02] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:29:08] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG9R0q9QJQc
[12:29:11] <r00t4rd3d> crap
[12:29:11] <GammaX> yet atleast lol
[12:29:24] <IchGuckLive> nice work
[12:29:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/240cc7I.jpg
[12:49:01] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: what happens if you expose for 1.1 - 100x times the period required to polymerize the resist?
[12:51:44] <Tom_itx> i've never used it
[12:51:55] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: I'm just wondering since it stops (terminates) polymerizing after exposure to enough energy for a long enough period, if you continue to expose it nothing should happen
[12:52:59] <L84Supper> I wonder if they keep it purposely complicated just to sell more materials from all mistakes
[12:56:04] <archivist> hmm a lump to play with huron fleabay 181123798998
[13:01:21] <Tom_itx> L84Supper, i use a regular bulb on silkscreen mask
[13:02:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/emulsion.jpg
[13:02:53] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/exposure.jpg
[13:08:23] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: used that years ago, the problem would be creating a good mask (dark enough with contrast) without a photo-plotter
[13:28:27] <GammaX> anyone here use solidworks?
[13:28:58] <archivist> I have used solidworks
[13:29:15] <r00t4rd3d> solid garbage
[13:29:40] <GammaX> Im in the process of learning it... I need to how to draw holes evenly spaced, centered on a block I have
[13:29:58] <GammaX> r00t4rd3d, what do you use for cad?
[13:30:02] <archivist> it has patterns
[13:30:18] <r00t4rd3d> Aspire its cad/cam in 1
[13:30:49] <GammaX> archivist, what do you use now?
[13:30:56] <r00t4rd3d> learn one program instead of 2
[13:31:08] <archivist> cough...solidworks
[13:31:16] <GammaX> lol
[13:32:38] <archivist> the gear mates for working out a clock mechanism in solidworks are rather good
[13:35:56] <tensaiteki> I use solidworks at work all the time
[13:36:04] <tensaiteki> last job used inventor
[13:36:44] <GammaX> im havin issues! lol
[13:37:02] <tensaiteki> are you trying to center a square bolt pattern (4 holes) or make a grid of holes?
[13:38:25] <GammaX> square bolt pattern... just 8 holes in a row...
[13:39:40] <GammaX> I should add... evenly spaced between eachother and centered on the bar
[13:41:52] <tensaiteki> do you want to do it by sketching circles in a pattern or using the hole wizard? sketching is easier, but hole wizard save a bit of time if you are making manufacturing drawings (or the holes are threaded)
[13:42:28] <GammaX> sketching
[13:42:46] <GammaX> Dont need man fac drawings at this time
[13:43:38] <tensaiteki> ok, is the bar already sketched and extruded, or are you going to put the holes in the sketch that has the outline of the bar?
[13:53:29] <GammaX> already sketched
[13:57:48] <JT-Shop> GammaX: you making chips yet?
[14:12:21] <GammaX> JT-Shop, still trying to see if that program is showing that my card is working lol
[14:13:39] <JT-Shop> hook some inputs up and see
[14:14:23] <GammaX> JT-Shop, just gotta bring comptuer back to shop
[14:14:48] <JT-Shop> gotcha
[14:16:03] <GammaX> the program eventually popped up... 3 out of all the holes were green
[15:13:38] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:48:32] <mrsun> how the hell have i "survived" without a combination square
[15:48:35] <mrsun> ive been so stupid
[15:48:49] <mrsun> layout work just became more fun :P
[15:51:39] <mrsun> tho might not be high precision but for building stuff in the garage its quite enough and soo much easier =) have to buy myself a real set of these things :P
[16:01:52] <adb> 'these things' >
[16:01:55] <adb> ?
[16:02:40] <mrsun> adb, combination square ... with the stuff that comes with it :P
[16:06:34] <adb> link maybe , i just entered here ?
[16:07:11] <mrsun> huh :P
[16:07:19] <mrsun> you entered before i typed something :P
[16:08:00] <adb> sure , sorry google is clear about it
[16:18:01] <Tom_itx> machinist square
[16:19:33] <jdh> http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/starrett_combo_satin.jpg
[16:25:15] <Connor_CNC> Trying to reconfigure my setup on my mill.. I had just a index for the spindle.. but now have a full encoder.. So, trying to figure out how to get RPM out of it now.. and do PID with the speed controller.
[16:25:39] <mrsun> jdh, yeah! =)
[16:25:39] <jdh> DIY encoder or did you buy something?
[16:25:46] <Connor_CNC> AMT102
[16:25:54] <jdh> on the motor shaft?
[16:26:09] <Connor_CNC> ya. 1:1. 48 PPR currntly
[16:26:16] <jdh> cool
[16:26:30] <jdh> with the -R kbic controller?
[16:27:20] <Connor_CNC> yea
[16:27:31] <Tom_itx> i put a printer encoder on mine
[16:27:43] <Tom_itx> no index though
[16:28:01] <Tom_itx> and no fancy reversable drive
[17:22:22] <Ademan> This is probably only half on-topic, so apologies in advance, but are there any other open source/DIY mill projects aside from mantis CNC? My ultimate goal is to be able to cnc mill aluminum and I'd prefer to build from scratch provided the DIY project is rigid enough for aluminum.
[17:24:45] <jmk-mcfaul> that is a very wide-ranging question
[17:25:29] <jmk-mcfaul> for example, what is your desired work envelope? a 4" cube and a 4 foot by 8 foot x 6" space have vastly different requirements
[17:27:29] <Ademan> jmk-mcfaul: well I'm only aware of one DIY/open source mill so I figured there couldn't be too many hehe. But my desired envelope is pretty small, I'd love to go up to 8x8x8
[17:27:37] <Ademan> egh, didn't mean to hit enter.
[17:28:17] <Ademan> Was going to follow up with: but I don't have strong requirements on size
[17:29:00] <jmk-mcfaul> I hadn't heard of mantis before, just googled it
[17:30:02] <jmk-mcfaul> I guess my first question becomes "what is your budget?" the mantis is a very lightweight machine, I was assuming you were talking about something more substantial
[17:30:37] <jmk-mcfaul> most people wanting metal cutting ability in a work envelope about that size would buy a chinese mini mill and retrofit it
[17:31:31] <jmk-mcfaul> like this:
http://littlemachineshop.com/info/minimill.php
[17:31:53] <Ademan> I think I got linked to that via a MAKE article
[17:32:12] <Ademan> I was looking at
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html which I think the article mentioned was likely a rebrand of the same mill
[17:33:09] <Ademan> But I'm actually more interested in building it myself than I am in budget. $2k is definitely my absolute maximum for the DIY approach though.
[17:34:50] <Ademan> If I go above $2k that's a lot of money to risk to my incompetence
[17:37:54] <jmk-mcfaul> to be honest, a wood framed machine like the mantis seems to be to be unwise for metal cutting. Wood just isn't really an appropriate material for a serious machine. If your budget was $200 and you had no ability to do anything better, then sure, build a mantis. But something that contains 75 lbs of metal will be far more satisfactory than anything made of wood
[17:41:48] <cradek> with how much patience and cursing are you willing to cut your aluminum? a full size bridgeport cnc knee mill weighs two tons and the working area is only 12x18x12ish. 8x8x8 is really pretty big.
[17:42:32] <jmk-mcfaul> cradek, what is the work envelope of a sherline?
[17:42:54] <cradek> I know xy is 4x6. not sure how much z you can get.
[17:42:56] <jmk-mcfaul> the two tons of a bridgeport mostly give you the ability to cut faster (deeper)
[17:43:14] <cradek> yes that's true
[17:44:09] <cradek> I don't understand those mill/drills with jacobs chucks. can you really mill anything with that?
[17:44:37] <Ademan> cradek: honestly 8x8x8 was almost entirely arbitrary as it matches my printer's build volume
[17:45:34] <jmk-mcfaul> a mini mill might be 4" x 6" x 10" work envelope, at a weight of 115 lbs. It can probably run a 1/4" cutter in aluminum, maybe 1/8" deep at a time
[17:45:37] <Tom_itx> 8x8x8 is pretty big until you need something bigger
[17:45:49] <jmk-mcfaul> the bridgeport at two tons can run a 3/4" cutter 1/2" deep in aluminum
[17:46:14] <jmk-mcfaul> the mantis would have a hard time running a 1/8" cutter 1/16" deep in aluminum
[17:46:44] <jmk-mcfaul> cradek, the harbor freight mini-mill linked to earlier has a morse taper and a drawbar
[17:47:06] <Tom_itx> what size morse taper?
[17:47:11] <Ademan> jmk-mcfaul: if you'll excuse my utter ignorance, when you say 1/8" deep, you can back it out, clear material, and proceed deeper, right?
[17:47:20] <Tom_itx> #2 morse taper won't cut it for mill cutters
[17:47:29] <Tom_itx> unless it has a draw bar
[17:47:48] <jmk-mcfaul> Tom_itx, dunno what size. I believe it does have a drawbar (looked at the manual, which is linked from that page)
[17:48:01] <Tom_itx> if it doesn't the mill will just fall out
[17:48:24] <jmk-mcfaul> Ademan, you can cut in multiple passes. First pass goes 1/8" deep, next pass goes another 1/8", etc
[17:48:41] <jmk-mcfaul> eventually chips clogging the slot or other factors will limit your depth
[17:48:52] <skunkworks> jmk-mcfaul: !
[17:49:08] <jmk-mcfaul> skunkworks, !
[17:49:21] <skunkworks> Good to see you on.
[17:49:32] <jmk-mcfaul> I've been thinking about wichita
[17:49:34] <Connor> Woot. I think I have my spindle working with the encoder... now to do some testing..
[17:49:55] <skunkworks> jmk-mcfaul: Think harder! Dad and I will be there.
[17:50:05] <jmk-mcfaul> Oh, I already know I'm going
[17:50:10] <Connor> RPM is a bit jumpy..
[17:50:20] <jmk-mcfaul> question is which days, and then details like which flights, to which airport
[17:50:26] <skunkworks> ah
[17:50:35] <jmk-mcfaul> kansas city MO is cheaper, but a 3 hour drive to wichita
[17:50:38] <Connor> But, I'm reading raw count.. Probably need to add some sort of smoothing or something.
[17:50:42] <skunkworks> we are close enough driving isn't a big deal
[17:50:51] <jmk-mcfaul> 15 hours from cleveland
[17:51:00] <skunkworks> right
[17:51:07] <Tom_itx> when is wichita?
[17:51:14] <jmk-mcfaul> june 17 thru 23
[17:51:17] <Tom_itx> at?
[17:51:19] <zultron> Actually, the harbor freight model has an R8 spindle, though other Sieg X2 models (the HF is a rebranded one of those) have morse tapers.
[17:51:22] <jmk-mcfaul> that is a monday thru sunday
[17:51:54] <zultron> I only know because that's what I'm limited to at home. ;(
[17:51:54] <Tom_itx> at stewarts place?
[17:52:10] <jmk-mcfaul> zultron, are you sure? we're talking about the micro mill,
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
[17:52:13] <jmk-mcfaul> not the mini-mill
[17:52:28] <jmk-mcfaul> Tom_itx, yes, Stuart Stevenson's place, MPM
[17:52:35] <Tom_itx> i'm about 2 mi from there
[17:52:47] <zultron> Yup, says right there on the link, R8.
[17:52:51] <Tom_itx> what happens at these meetings?
[17:53:11] <jmk-mcfaul> zultron, oh, duh :-)
[17:53:20] <Tom_itx> or where do i find out about it
[17:53:30] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: it is not structured/.
[17:53:34] <Tom_itx> good
[17:53:41] <Tom_itx> i like it that way
[17:53:50] <zultron> About Wichita, jmk-mcfaul, mhaberler and I might be driving together from TX.
[17:53:51] <jmk-mcfaul> consumption of pizza, coding on Linuxcnc features/bugs, working on whatever interesting project Stuart has or people bring along
[17:54:25] <Tom_itx> all i've got is a sherline so i won't have anything to show
[17:54:30] <jmk-mcfaul> zultron, are you one of the guys working on the multi-platform stuff?
[17:54:33] <zultron> I guess you've been corresponding with him.
[17:54:34] <zultron> Yeah.
[17:54:49] <zultron> John Morris, I've been copied on some of the email w/you.
[17:55:02] <jmk-mcfaul> corresponding just a little. I've been too busy at work (and too far out of the linuxcnc loop) to really contribute anything
[17:55:23] <jmk-mcfaul> cool - I'm looking forward to meeting both you and Micheal
[17:55:35] <zultron> I'd like to know what to expect at Wichita. I could go the whole week, but don't want to be twiddling my thumbs for sure.
[17:55:40] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, gonna show?
[17:56:05] <Tom_itx> i've never been inside but it's a large shop
[17:56:18] <jmk-mcfaul> I won't be there the entire week. Leaning toward maybe weds or thurs, then leaving as late on sunday as plane tickets allow, back at work on monday
[17:56:58] <zultron> I'm sure we'll be there at least that long.
[17:57:00] <jmk-mcfaul> here are some pics from a trip to MPM back in 2008:
http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/wichita-trip-02-20-08.html
[17:57:29] <Tom_itx> which building do they meet in?
[17:57:48] <jmk-mcfaul> which building?
[17:58:05] <Tom_itx> looks like there are a couple but i've never been inside
[17:58:15] <jmk-mcfaul> MPM is only one building. Stuart has added a fab shop since the last time I was there, but I bet most will be at the main building
[17:58:23] <Tom_itx> is it the front building off West St?
[17:58:33] <jmk-mcfaul> I think the last I was there was in 2009, my memory isn't that good
[17:59:27] <jmk-mcfaul> I was assuming that the fab shop was elsewhere (like down the road or something, not just next door)
[17:59:46] <Tom_itx> there's a 2nd building behind but i dunno if it's his or not
[18:00:13] <jmk-mcfaul> oh, I remember that building. I think it was mostly storage when I was there
[18:01:01] <Tom_itx> is it mostly developers that show up?
[18:01:12] <jmk-mcfaul> its a mix
[18:01:47] <jmk-mcfaul> I won't be doing any development, it has been several years since I last wrote EMC (oops, LinuxCNC) code
[18:01:54] <jmk-mcfaul> now I'm only good for bullshitting
[18:02:30] <Tom_itx> i'm fair at that
[18:02:41] <jmk-mcfaul> I might be bringing some small brushless servos and a Mesa card, just to try to get them working on the bench
[18:02:51] <Ademan> zultron: What are the implications of the R8 spindle?
[18:03:12] <Tom_itx> i might try to stop by one day for at least a bit
[18:03:25] <Tom_itx> is it an open door policy or do you need to give notice?
[18:03:26] <jmk-mcfaul> Ademan, R8 is an industry standard for spindles - means you can easily attach a wide variety of tools to the spindle
[18:03:55] <jmk-mcfaul> I think stuart wants to know roughly how many people will be there, so he can plan on bench space and chairs and such
[18:04:14] <jmk-mcfaul> but one guy showing up for a few hours would probably be no problem at all
[18:04:36] <skunkworks> jmk-mcfaul: have you done anything with your 'circuit board mill'?
[18:04:52] <jmk-mcfaul> skunkworks, I'm finally getting back to it
[18:05:13] <jmk-mcfaul> I've started work on the spindle portion
[18:05:31] <jmk-mcfaul> got the quill itself mostly done, quill housing and Z-axis mostly designed
[18:05:46] <skunkworks> Cool
[18:06:08] <jmk-mcfaul> spindle design has iterated several times - I partly built a spindle a couple years ago, never got as far as doing the collet bore before I changed the design
[18:06:23] <jmk-mcfaul> but I now have a spindle motor selected and most of the motor mounting parts made
[18:06:38] <Ademan> jmk-mcfaul: ah thanks. This probably won't happen for several months, but it's good to get the info. Thanks everyone
[18:07:29] <zultron> Whoops, thanks for fielding that question. :)
[18:07:32] <jmk-mcfaul> I have access to Autodesk Inventor (3D modeling) on my work laptop, and that has gotten me re-started. The Z-axis assembly (including spindle and spindle motor) is designed in inventor, and I just got done modeling the table that I built in 2009
[18:08:04] <jmk-mcfaul> I will be bringing the laptop to the fest
[18:08:31] <skunkworks> are you adding the 4th axis to the spindle? (seem to remember that being part of it..)
[18:08:36] <jmk-mcfaul> I hope to have the spindle made by then
[18:08:59] <jmk-mcfaul> that four/five axis stuff was for another hypothetical (and larger) machine. That one has gone nowhere.
[18:08:59] <zultron> So re: Wichita, it sounds like lots of folks are going the 2nd half of the week. Anyone know what to expect earlier when fewer people will be around?
[18:09:27] <jmk-mcfaul> zultron, that will depend entirely on the people who are there
[18:09:41] <Tom_itx> saturday would probably work best for me
[18:10:01] <jmk-mcfaul> if any serious coding is done, early is probably better, simply because there will be fewer distractions
[18:10:11] <jmk-mcfaul> but it all depends, its a very un-structured event
[18:10:30] <zultron> Ah, so actual coding will be a theme.
[18:11:51] <jmk-mcfaul> maybe :-)
[18:12:10] <jmk-mcfaul> people might decide that it makes more sense to plan and discuss while there, code at home
[18:13:36] <Tom_itx> my experience at a 'fest' is you do more talking and learning than hands on work
[18:13:41] <zultron> :) I'm certainly the sort who needs to hole up alone to do any real coding.
[18:14:21] <Tom_itx> any tool reps gonna be there?
[18:14:29] <jmk-mcfaul> Tom_itx, very unlikely
[18:14:38] <jmk-mcfaul> it is a small and informal event
[18:14:39] <zultron> Tormach's sending a delegation.
[18:14:48] <jmk-mcfaul> oh, I stand corrected
[18:14:51] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:14:53] <zultron> (3rd-hand info)
[18:14:54] <Tom_itx> i get the idea
[18:15:19] <Tom_itx> we used to have a bi annual trade show here with all sorts of stuff going on
[18:15:32] <Tom_itx> been out of the loop too long to know if they still do
[18:18:20] <Tom_itx> if you live in an area hard to get materials you should plan a trip to the yard surplus store while in town
[18:20:57] <Tom_itx> i'd be curious who was the furthest traveller to show
[18:22:22] <zultron> Could possibly be Michael Haberler from Austria.
[18:47:08] <Connor_CNC> Okay, Playing with rigid tapping.. My spindle reverses.. but, the Z doesn't at the end of the move..
[18:47:32] <jmk-mcfaul> are you sure your spindle encoder is generating good quadrature?
[18:47:59] <jmk-mcfaul> rotate the spindle by hand, look at the spindle position output from the encoder with halmeter, make sure it goes both ways when you turn the spindle both ways
[18:48:19] <Connor_CNC> it just counts up.
[18:48:44] <jmk-mcfaul> then either the encoder signals are faulty, or the encoder counter is mis-configured
[18:49:05] <jmk-mcfaul> how are you counting? hardware from pico or mesa or ??, or using linuxcnc's software encoder counter?
[18:58:07] <Connor_CNC> parport
[18:58:40] <jmk-mcfaul> so that means software encoder counter?
[18:58:49] <Connor_CNC> Had to remove old line about setp encoder.0.counter-mode true
[18:59:01] <jmk-mcfaul> oh, yeah, that would do it
[18:59:06] <jmk-mcfaul> does it count both ways now?
[18:59:19] <Connor_CNC> and change my encoder scale to 192 vs 48.. and reverse A and B
[18:59:39] <Connor_CNC> now to test...
[19:04:34] <skunkworks> Connor_CNC: what machine is this?
[19:06:01] <Connor_CNC> My machine
[19:06:03] <Connor_CNC> g0704
[19:07:54] <Tom_itx> Connor, what size steppers did you put on that?
[19:09:35] <skunkworks> Connor_CNC: going to need a video...
[19:09:43] <skunkworks> :)
[19:17:10] <PetefromTn> Connor_CNC: Glad you got it working man, rigid tapping is pretty sweet. My RF45 would only float tap with Mach3 and I always had wished I had gone with LinuxCNC so I could do it for real LOL....
[19:31:44] <Connor_CNC> skunkworks: Will do one once I get it all working..
[19:32:06] <Connor_CNC> Okay.. It threaded .25" MDF just fine.. now lets try some alum..
[19:42:35] <Connor_CNC> Well.. no joy on 1/4-20 in 3/8" Alum with standard hand tap.. Not enough torque..
[19:43:42] <jmk-mcfaul> you don't want to CNC tap metals with hand taps - they don't evacuate chips properly
[19:43:53] <jmk-mcfaul> get yourself some spiral point taps (for thru holes)
[19:44:09] <Connor_CNC> Just a experiment..
[19:45:03] <Connor_CNC> I don't have and spiral point taps..
[19:45:14] <jmk-mcfaul> ok
[19:45:18] <Connor_CNC> Looks like I need to get some..
[19:45:28] <jmk-mcfaul> get some, and you'll never look back (even for hand tapping)
[19:45:35] <jmk-mcfaul> so nice
[19:49:32] <Connor> I may need to turn the torque pot up on the motor controller.. It's probably only set to 1HP
[19:50:11] <Connor> Tom_itx: 560oz steppers.
[19:50:47] <Tom_itx> what current is your drive set to?
[19:52:01] <Connor> I think the pot for the KBCC-R is about 1/2 way.. from factory.
[19:57:08] <Tom_itx> are they plenty big for the mill or have you missed any steps on heavy cuts?
[19:58:01] <Connor> Perfectly fine for the mill very well matched. Would be better with ball screws.. but.. no complaints.. I might upgrade to the digital stepper drivers but, the ones I'm using work great.
[20:58:02] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I tried to design stiff but not too expensive frame for my 30cm x 30cm x 20cm range CNC and I now calculated the cost to be $600 or so:/ Is that reasonable or I did something wrong (alu + some steel construction).
[20:58:14] <cradek> zultron: my comments from emc-users about what these things are like:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/42692/focus=42699
[21:01:04] <Tom_itx> cradek, that's about what i would expect
[21:01:59] <cradek> some seem to expect vendors/classrooms/seminars, and I wanted to warn against that
[21:02:18] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:02:37] <cradek> /salesmen
[21:03:00] <Tom_itx> i think you can learn more in that type of environment anyway
[21:03:17] <cradek> depends on your personality, probably
[21:03:22] <Tom_itx> i suppose
[21:04:47] <Tom_itx> so should i reply to the list if i plan to drop by for part of a day?
[21:05:21] <cradek> couldn't hurt, but totally not necessary
[21:05:55] <cradek> bbl
[21:05:55] <Tom_itx> i've been around big equipment before but maybe not quite that big
[21:06:37] <Tom_itx> does he get alot of those surplus or in need of repair?
[21:09:33] <Tom_itx> is part of it gonna be at SFI?
[21:09:46] <Tom_itx> Stuart mentioned that in his thread
[21:14:42] <L84Supper> how many might be there in Wichita this year?
[21:15:19] <Tom_itx> i'm gonna try to drop by probably toward friday or so but don't have anything really to show
[21:15:57] <Tom_itx> is KimK still helping him?
[21:16:29] <KimK> Helping who?
[21:17:12] <KimK> Ah, Stuart? Yes, I'm still here.
[21:17:55] <Tom_itx> i'll try to drop by for part of a day at least
[21:18:32] <cradek> KimK: how's the MS Jr coming? any progress on it?
[21:20:27] <KimK> Ha, not for a long time, it's usually the emergency of the hour/day/week instead. But that has been easing, so maybe progress will resume?
[21:21:25] <L84Supper> 11hr drive from Chicago
[21:22:57] <KimK> I'm looking forward to seeing everybody.
[21:23:17] <cradek> yep, it's been years
[21:25:06] <KimK> I went to the first(?) Ann Arbor workshop, but missed the rest of them, three total there, was it?
[21:25:31] <cradek> I think I did the same
[21:25:44] <cradek> it was nice to see the first time, but wasn't exactly what I was looking for
[21:25:57] <KimK> So yes, it has been a long time, especially for me.
[21:26:17] <cradek> they definitely had vendors/classrooms/seminars/salesmen there - more like a trade show than a hackfest
[21:26:44] <KimK> I suppose there's no middle ground?
[21:27:04] <cradek> a lot of people stopped by after talking to the mach salesmen and wanted us to sales at them too, so they could compare. sorry dudes.
[21:27:26] <KimK> Ha! I hadn't heard that.
[21:27:50] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:27:52] <cradek> could've been just my perception.
[21:28:46] <Tom_itx> well somebody new looking and not knowing may need a bit of leading
[21:28:52] <KimK> I have thought about putting together a presentation like that though, "Intro to Linux and LinuxCNC for Windows/Mach users" or some such. But where to give it, lol. An invitation is unlikely.
[21:29:09] <cradek> sure, I'm not saying they were wrong to want that
[21:29:57] <Tom_itx> i've followed it somewhat since it was still a govt project so i sorta knew what i was getting into
[21:30:12] <cradek> KimK: put it online. youtube or the wiki or both.
[21:30:19] <Tom_itx> it's come a looonnngg ways
[21:30:53] <KimK> "Let's see, we (Windows/Mach) sell fee-paid software, and so we should invite a free software group because...?" (crickets chirping).
[21:31:38] <Tom_itx> issues are likely to be addressed quicker too
[21:35:35] <KimK> I haven't put out anything on the list yet (I'm way behind reading them), but I have asked Stuart to give a presentation on "Intro to APT programming"(?) (or similar) and Willie to give a presentation on "Intro to NCL Programming"(?), and they have both agreed. This is with the idea that *here* is where we are (with APT4), and *here* is where we *could* be. We'll see what happens.
[21:36:41] <KimK> Willie says that NCL is like "Super-APT".
[21:39:34] <cradek> stuart has tried to show me (and others?) ncl a couple times, I think. it never clicked.
[21:41:12] <KimK> Willie says that the most important thing is to be able to visualize the part in three dimensions and understand the geometry involved, the rest, he says, is easy.
[21:41:44] <KimK> So we'll certainly pick simple example parts, lol!
[21:42:20] <Tom_itx> i take it NCL is gcode programming?
[21:43:53] <KimK> NCl converts a solid model (like IGES, etc.) and a set of tool definitions, plus the programmer's ideas about how the cutting should be done, to g-code.
[21:45:16] <Tom_itx> not intended for your average 3 axis programming...
[21:46:06] <Tom_itx> is Willie one of their programmers?
[21:46:09] <KimK> No, it's probably a little unwieldy for simple jobs. I like LinuxCNCs subroutines and loops for that.
[21:47:38] <KimK> Yes, Willie's been programming molds and 5-axis work for many years. All the most difficult jobs, he's very good.
[21:51:13] <KimK> If these seminars take place, I'll be watching too, because I know very little about either APT or NCL.
[21:51:21] <Tom_itx> same here
[21:51:34] <Tom_itx> hope somebody tapes them
[21:52:39] <KimK> I thought about that, I'll mention it and see if our presenters are OK with that. That would be helpful to those who want to see but can't be there.
[21:53:15] <Tom_itx> that would be nice
[21:54:37] <KimK> Ha, or for those who *were* there, and later ask, "...wait, *what* did he say?..."
[21:54:55] <Tom_itx> i'm sure it will be alot to absorb at once
[21:56:21] <KimK> It should be fun, I'm looking forward to it, and to seeing everybody, again or for the first time.
[21:59:52] <skunkworks2> can't wait
[22:01:20] <Tom_itx> does this run all day long?
[22:01:25] <KimK> Hi Sam, yes, it'll be good to see you again too. Bring baby pictures, lol.
[22:01:42] <Tom_itx> do they keep production going while the fest is going on or shut down for the week?
[22:01:51] <skunkworks2> I have this feeling it is going to be a bit bigger than the last Wichita fest...
[22:02:20] <Tom_itx> what was the previous head count?
[22:02:24] <KimK> Oh, no, the chip-making *must* continue, lol.
[22:02:36] <Tom_itx> cool
[22:03:09] <Tom_itx> yeah if it's anything like the place i was at, the parts are always _hot_
[22:03:29] <KimK> I'm not sure, maybe 12-15 total attendees, maybe 9-12 most at one time? Does that sound right?
[22:04:06] <Tom_itx> do we check in at the front office or what?
[22:04:10] <skunkworks2> KimK:
http://electronicsam.com/gallery/index.php?/category/1
[22:04:31] <KimK> Well, maybe 9-12 total and 6-9 most at one time?
[22:05:38] <KimK> Ha, great, Sam, you've got them all up there!
[22:07:35] <KimK> They did a front office check-in in 2009 as I recall. We have two locations now and I'm not sure what the plans are. The new location has less CNC but more room?
[22:09:08] <Tom_itx> that must be the Santa Fe location he mentions
[22:09:28] <KimK> Yes, that's the one.
[22:09:51] <Tom_itx> that's up by the Purina plant i think
[22:11:12] <KimK> I don't know about Purina, but there is a Cargill vegetable oil plant near there also.
[22:11:24] <Tom_itx> it may have changed hands
[22:11:28] <Tom_itx> but yeah
[22:11:55] <Tom_itx> there's a handfull of other shops up there as well
[22:12:10] <KimK> It's perhaps a 15 minute drive between the two locations.
[22:12:15] <Tom_itx> yep
[22:13:11] <KimK> How are your LinuxCNC projects going?
[22:13:35] <Tom_itx> i got my sherline working
[22:13:44] <KimK> Great!
[22:14:04] <Tom_itx> i'd like to add a better spindle control for rigid tapping but it's just a _toy_ anyway
[22:14:39] <KimK> Well, hey, we do it because we *can*, right?
[22:14:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[22:14:57] <Tom_itx> there's the new supply
[22:15:41] <Tom_itx> a bit overkill but leaves plenty of room for growth
[22:17:08] <KimK> Sure, it looks good.
[22:17:37] <Tom_itx> all surplus except the mesa cards and geckos
[22:18:28] <KimK> Which Mesa card series did you use, the "25"?
[22:19:26] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: is there thermal paste between the diode bridges and the heatsink? (can't tell cause if there is you did a real nice cleanup job)
[22:20:49] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: looks like a nice setup...what happened to those electrolytical capacitors?
[22:21:49] <Connor> okay. That's getting to be a pain..
[22:22:45] <KimK> What do you think is causing that, firewall problems on their end or something?
[22:23:03] <Connor> Probably issue with a route..
[22:24:17] <ProxDem> he could be the receiver of an attack
[22:24:34] <ProxDem> multiple targets attacking one person = one person being the Destination/source of excess flood
[22:25:10] <KimK> It says he's in Lombard, IL
[22:25:34] <KimK> Hi, linlin, did you get it to work?
[22:26:19] <KimK> Are you reading this, linlin ?
[22:26:46] <KimK> Well, welcome, if you can hear us.
[22:27:19] <KimK> I guess we'll continue?
[22:28:40] <KimK> Or maybe everybody's done?
[22:30:20] <Tom_itx> ProxDem i can't recall if i ever went back and added paste or not... i should check them but they never run warm
[22:30:32] <Tom_itx> hardly pushing their rating at all
[22:31:07] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: well if they don't run warm and they are way under their rated nominal then might not be a need for it =)
[22:31:16] <ProxDem> I was just curious everything was so clean
[22:31:18] <Tom_itx> 7i43 7i47
[22:31:30] <Tom_itx> it was the plan to add it :)
[22:31:55] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: are those capacitors made like that?
[22:32:01] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:32:03] <ProxDem> the weird non cylindrical bumps
[22:32:16] <Tom_itx> some odd surplus ones i got
[22:32:26] <Tom_itx> they all checked good or better
[22:32:44] <ProxDem> I'm wondering if it's for expantion purposes when the electrolytical mixture decides togo the electrolysis way
[22:32:46] <Tom_itx> some phillips caps
[22:32:53] <Tom_itx> no idea
[22:33:05] <Tom_itx> they have 4 lugs on them but only 2 are used
[22:33:10] <ProxDem> kinda like the X or Y or K on top of normal ones to help them blow from the top
[22:33:16] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:34:04] <ProxDem> since it's a linear PSU how's the current draw?
[22:34:19] <Tom_itx> i haven't checked it to be honest
[22:34:37] <Tom_itx> it's rated for somewhere around 18A
[22:34:59] <Tom_itx> i parallel'd the transformers
[22:35:08] <ProxDem> those almost look like MOTs
[22:35:18] <Tom_itx> no current draw (minimal) between them
[22:35:33] <Tom_itx> the windings are very close
[22:35:52] <Tom_itx> no idea what they were out of
[22:36:08] <ProxDem> I like how it's tons of extra stuff throw together
[22:36:30] <ProxDem> love the resourcefulness
[22:36:40] <KimK> Interesting on the 7i43, are you connecting via USB? How's that working out for you? (As far as realtime issues, latency issues, etc.)
[22:37:03] <Tom_itx> parallel port
[22:37:09] <Tom_itx> it works greate
[22:37:29] <Tom_itx> i'd have a 5i25 but i got these just before they came out
[22:37:49] <KimK> Ah, OK, that all makes sense now, thanks.
[22:38:28] <Tom_itx> probably a noob mistake on the 7i43 but it all worked out fine
[22:38:49] <Tom_itx> err 47
[22:39:15] <Tom_itx> with all the differential stuff
[22:39:23] <Tom_itx> i didn't need that but it worked out ok
[22:40:08] <KimK> No, the 7i47 is how I would have done it too. Sounds good to me.
[22:41:59] <Tom_itx> i did have to rewire all the original wiring with shielded wire
[22:42:09] <Tom_itx> steppers and switches are all shielded now
[22:42:37] <KimK> That sounds like a good idea.
[22:42:55] <Tom_itx> it cured the noise issues
[22:44:34] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: the wiring is shielded?
[22:44:48] <Tom_itx> all the steppers and limits are
[22:48:30] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: is that ferric chloride hexadryte or ammonium persulfate in your etchant tank?
[22:49:16] <r00t4rd3d> thats meth
[22:49:49] <ProxDem> ahh so he's heisenberg
[22:49:52] <Tom_itx> it's either ammonium or sodium persulphate... i have both
[22:50:11] <Tom_itx> fecl3 is brown and icky
[22:50:14] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: cupric chloride?
[22:50:22] <Tom_itx> no
[22:51:50] <ProxDem> hum AFAIK fecl3 = Ferric chloride...not ferric chloride hexahydrate
[22:52:12] <ProxDem> or am I mistaken?
[22:52:36] <Tom_itx> i'm no chemist
[22:53:05] <ProxDem> sooo then is that Sodium Metasilicate?
[22:53:13] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[22:53:19] <ProxDem> I'm curious to know what you use for etching! =P
[22:54:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.circuitspecialists.com/photo-chemicals
[22:54:44] <ProxDem> oh I read Neither instead of either
[22:54:45] <ProxDem> silly me
[22:55:30] <Tom_itx> i'm out..
[22:55:43] <ProxDem> take care sorry for the confusion =)
[23:03:01] <toastydeath> hey dudes, i have an oddly topical question - what are the best mills and lathes in the 500-1000 pound range?
[23:03:16] <toastydeath> bridgeports and the stuff i'm familiar with are all about a ton each
[23:04:58] <L84Supper> andy's mill setup looks like it's in that 1K lb range, ask him in a few hours
[23:05:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=157_1366515404
[23:06:19] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQlGAGt_zcM&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&index=9
[23:06:48] <toastydeath> hm, do you have a link anywhere?
[23:07:12] <L84Supper> toastydeath:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47y6RgAK--8&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[23:07:30] <toastydeath> wow that looks awesome
[23:07:36] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[23:07:37] <toastydeath> that's damn near perfect
[23:08:46] <toastydeath> jesus, that IS perfect
[23:10:20] <toastydeath> that is, if the base comes off
[23:11:10] <toastydeath> damn, it doesn't, and it's still 1200 lbs
[23:12:08] <toastydeath> lathes weigh less though, i might be able to make up in weight there
[23:15:45] <toastydeath> i guess a seig x3 type machine might not be murder
[23:25:52] <L84Supper> i should talk to Seig about offering EMC right from their factory
[23:26:53] <L84Supper> http://www.siegind.com/gallery_detail/newsId=598817c3-63b6-477a-8910-4b3fb591871d.html
[23:27:36] <L84Supper> toastydeath:
http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/&productId=56f672be-fdd6-4afc-a1bc-1dfae832eac2.html this big enough?
[23:27:56] <toastydeath> like, a tiny bed mill is exactly what i'm looking for but a used Hardinge or similar mill will fit under the weight limit and is a bit more sturdy
[23:28:02] <toastydeath> too wimpy, unfortunately
[23:28:37] <toastydeath> it would be a ship's mill and lathe, for repair work underway
[23:28:47] <toastydeath> so it's cutting stainless and naval brass
[23:29:10] <toastydeath> small windlass gears, reboring and rethreading block components, etc
[23:29:46] <toastydeath> in this situation a mill/lathe combo would be IDEAL because of line boring
[23:30:14] <toastydeath> but it's not going to happen, they're just not sturdy enough
[23:38:11] <toastydeath> hm, syil looks fairly solid and small, too
[23:57:48] <GammaX> evenin all
