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[00:06:23] <GammaX> Hey everyone.
[00:51:36] <WalterN> L84Supper: poke
[04:26:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:32:58] <mr_new> .
[06:42:15] <skunkworks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdk5EhLa54
[06:49:34] <jthornton> which gui is that?
[06:51:27] <skunkworks> it looks like axis...
[06:51:37] <skunkworks> to me
[06:52:03] <jthornton> ah yes
[06:52:33] <jthornton> just a pyvcp panel then
[06:52:37] <skunkworks> yes
[06:52:39] <skunkworks> and tabs
[07:17:22] <PetefromTn> Mornin' fellas...
[07:20:17] <carper64_lb> hi everybody
[07:24:08] <PetefromTn> carper64_lb: Heya
[07:34:03] <Tom_itx> jthornton, making any progress with your avr venture?
[07:58:29] <alex_joni> https://blog.freenode.net/2013/04/april-1st-2013-the-aftermath/
[07:58:34] <alex_joni> yay.. made the lists :)
[08:30:28] <skunkworks> wow
[08:45:07] <alex_joni> skunkworks: howdy
[08:53:27] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: Hey man mornin'
[08:54:08] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I got side tracked
[09:02:07] <skunkworks> Morning!
[09:04:27] <R2E4_awy> moanin
[09:04:57] <PetefromTn> Moanin' R2...
[09:05:23] <R2E4_awy> hey Pete. R U from Texas?
[09:06:12] <PetefromTn> Hey guys I am working on my Y axis today, got the motor leads setup now so they will fit inside the column so now I can install the motor finally. Once I do that I am planning to start the PID tuning using the Halscope setup. Never done that and was hoping some of you could maybe help walk me thru it?
[09:06:51] <PetefromTn> R2E4_awy: No man but been there a few times.....HOT there outside. The wind felt like an massive industrial strength hair dryer LOL
[09:07:13] <R2E4_awy> right..... Tennessee then?
[09:08:02] <PetefromTn> Well I am not FROM Tennessee I just live here LOL... I was born in upstate NY and grew up in Florida.
[09:08:26] <R2E4_awy> I was born and raised in Clearwater Florida.
[09:08:29] <PetefromTn> Why RU from texas
[09:09:02] <R2E4_awy> No, I was just messing around and for some reason I correlated TN to Texas instead of Tennessee....:-)
[09:09:09] <PetefromTn> Love Clearwater, I spent a lot of time in the US Coast Guard aboard the Cutter Steadfast based in that area.
[09:09:31] <R2E4_awy> Ah yeah. Gotta love Tampa Bay.
[09:09:36] <PetefromTn> They also have CGAS Clearwater over there too...
[09:10:10] <PetefromTn> Used to cruise the beach in my black Jeep as a youth picking up chicks....damn that was a long time ago.
[09:10:44] <PetefromTn> Someone buy my house here in TN so I can move back to Florida LOL.
[09:10:58] <R2E4_awy> AH! sand key when there were no condos and very little condops clearwater beach.
[09:11:28] <R2E4_awy> Now nothing but concrete.
[09:12:02] <PetefromTn> It's really a beautiful area even now I think. If you want more space just move south towards fort myers I think...
[09:12:26] <R2E4_awy> go north a bit for BACF......
[09:12:28] <jdh> or hang out at the church
[09:12:43] <PetefromTn> I'm gonna go try to stick this motor in my Y axis now or I'll sit here and cry about missing florida LOL
[09:15:10] <PetefromTn> QUICK stupid question, I am trying to tune my Z axis here. I have been told that since my machine does not have a counterweight on it to add some bias adjustment in the PID calibration page to help the motor rest when it is not moving. If I have my settings correct for homing and the axis is moving in the right direction what should that number be a positive one or a negative one? Can you even put a negative one?
[09:24:46] <PetefromTn> anyone?
[09:26:12] <jdh> You need an I term to deal with the unidirectional load
[09:29:44] <PetefromTn> Okay what about the Bias, I've been told it is for unidirectional load...
[09:29:48] <jdh> did you try changing the sign and observing the response or errors?
[09:30:04] <jdh> (I have no clue)
[09:31:49] <PetefromTn> Yeah man I've been playing with it for awhile. Actually the Bias made some difference which is why I thought I was on the right track. I have not played with the I setting because I thought it was kind of a floating adjustment that went in both directions. Just got this thing together a couple days ago so have not even figured out how to setup halscope to view the error.
[09:32:51] <jdh> it probably is.
[09:33:15] <jdh> just in general, if you have a static load one way, you will never reach setpoint without an I
[09:34:09] <PetefromTn> okay I will play with the I setting some more....any ideas how to setup the halscope to view that?
[09:34:32] <jdh> doesn't JT's tuning tutorial cover that?
[09:35:16] <jdh> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html
[09:36:52] <PetefromTn> thanks man...
[09:37:17] <jdh> no I there
[09:39:33] <PetefromTn> huh?
[09:39:58] <jdh> -> In my case no I or D was used only P, FF1, and FF2.
[09:40:47] <PetefromTn> thats what I thought but gotta deal with unidirectional load...
[09:41:06] <jdh> try the bias. I should be last anyway
[09:47:50] <PetefromTn> Whaddya mean you should be last? I just got the Y axis motor installed now I gotta tighten up the coupling and I can test the Y axis finally. Dropped the damn allen wrench inside the coupling housing and can't reach it doh!! Gonna go find my magnet...
[09:49:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Azs8X9D.jpg
[09:49:44] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.clockparts.com/clock-part/clear-american-made-mini-quartz-movements/
[09:50:09] <r00t4rd3d> I think I can sell those like crack in front of social services building
[09:50:34] <jdh> what happens at the social services building?
[09:50:41] <jdh> clockmaker meetup?
[09:50:44] <r00t4rd3d> welfare
[09:51:13] <PetefromTn> You really have a think for crack dontcha....
[09:52:50] <r00t4rd3d> I laugh my balls off at tyrone biggums
[09:54:50] <PetefromTn> who?
[10:03:06] <jdh> you know, that guy responsible for r00t's eunuch-hood.
[10:07:40] <PetefromTn> Eunuch??? WOW!!
[10:10:55] <PetefromTn> Okay fellas it's official....My Cincinatti Arrow 500 now has full three axis movement!!! YEAH YIPEE YEEHAW....ahem
[10:11:59] <cradek> obligatory
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1993-11-09/
[10:12:52] <PetefromTn> LOL...cracks me up yuk yuk.
[10:13:07] <cradek> congrats on your movement success
[10:13:22] <jdh> cool
[10:14:32] <R2E4_awy> +cradek: I got the R2E4 drip feed working.
[10:15:11] <cradek> yay/sorry to hear that
[10:15:15] <PetefromTn> Thanks Chris...
[10:15:49] <cradek> means it's working but you won't retrofit it now...
[10:17:23] <PetefromTn> Whaddya mean?
[10:17:32] <PetefromTn> It is being retrofitted...
[10:18:01] <cradek> PetefromTn: that comment was toward R2E4_awy and his drip feed success
[10:18:20] <PetefromTn> Duh...
[10:19:39] <R2E4_awy> no, I will do the retrofit.
[10:20:58] <R2E4_awy> I have the mesa boards and linuxcnc installed and ready to go, I wanted to test the drivers and make sure they are ok. I have a few jobs to cut, then will start looking at trying to figure out how to cut out the control.
[10:21:11] <cradek> cool
[10:21:29] <cradek> a working machine is much easier to retrofit than a bunch of unknown/untested parts
[10:22:07] <PetefromTn> You can say that again...
[10:22:07] <R2E4_awy> I may have to implement a PLC to make things ework. Lots of logic on this machine.
[10:22:34] <R2E4_awy> Not to mention my stupidyness.... hehe
[10:23:02] <R2E4_awy> I need the machine to mechanically tell me not to change the tool when the spindle is running....hehe
[10:23:03] <cradek> I don't remember if we used classicladder on the one we did.
[10:23:27] <cradek> R2E4_awy: does it have a power drawbar? I figured it was QC30.
[10:23:50] <cradek> with QC you won't accidentally change a tool with it running...
[10:23:56] <R2E4_awy> no, it has an air brake and some other stuff I wil havbe to figure ot
[10:24:13] <R2E4_awy> yes it is QC30
[10:24:31] <R2E4_awy> spanner wrench type
[10:24:33] <cradek> the brake is nice - makes it easier to change the tool
[10:25:41] <R2E4_awy> Yeah, its noce when the machine knows when to use it. I may just put a button to remove the run signal for the VFD and hit the air brake solinoid.
[10:26:09] <R2E4_awy> lots to figure out before I do the retrofit.
[10:26:13] <cradek> why not brake whenever the spindle is off
[10:27:14] <R2E4_awy> Yeah, I guess I could, if my vfd has an output for motor running. I can apply the brake when the motor stops.
[10:27:47] <PetefromTn> Mine has a zero speed output...
[10:27:54] <R2E4_awy> sWould there be a time when I would need the brake to be off when the spindle is off re: cleaning, maintenance.
[10:28:35] <R2E4_awy> I knbow mine has two outputs and I think they are programmabl;e so I may be able to use that.
[10:29:55] <cradek> yeah it's nice to be able to turn the spindle freely sometimes.
[10:30:20] <cradek> does the R2E4 have the two-handed spindle start (twist knob-poke button)?
[10:30:21] <jthornton> I use the b key
[10:30:25] <cradek> I kind of like that
[10:30:37] <R2E4_awy> thesehuh?
[10:30:49] <cradek> ?
[10:30:53] <R2E4_awy> huh? What is the twist knob-poke button....hehe
[10:31:14] <cradek> to start the spindle you twist a knob with your left hand and poke a button with your right
[10:31:20] <cradek> iirc
[10:31:23] <R2E4_awy> ah.... yeah
[10:31:34] <cradek> you twist it one way for high gear and the other way for low
[10:31:43] <R2E4_awy> hig gear low gear select while hitting spindle enable
[10:31:47] <cradek> just twisting (no poke) releases the brake so you can orient
[10:32:16] <R2E4_awy> I hear a relay when I twist.
[10:32:33] <cradek> air switch
[10:32:36] <R2E4_awy> I thought that just enebaled the wife to shout.
[10:33:29] <R2E4_awy> I haven't gotten into the peripherals yet. Need to find all the relays and the acc totrigger.
[10:34:12] <JT-Shop> I like "my round square is slower than my square round because of cv" LOL
[10:35:54] <cradek> JT-Shop: he made the segments shorter (replaced 1" lines with .5" lines and .39" arcs)
[10:36:33] <JT-Shop> right, I saw that and had a P of .125
[10:36:51] <cradek> a more valid test of blending (avoiding the segment-length-based speed limitation) would replace the 1" lines with 1" lines and 1" arcs
[10:37:15] <JT-Shop> 1" long arcs?
[10:37:21] <cradek> often people misunderstand the actual limitation so they argue about other things :-/
[10:37:31] <cradek> yes
[10:37:53] <JT-Shop> that is my understanding too
[10:39:02] <cradek> a 1" long quarter-circle arc would have radius .64"
[10:39:15] <cradek> ... I think
[10:42:08] <skunkworks> .6366
[10:42:14] <skunkworks> ;)
[10:42:35] <JT-Shop> heh
[10:42:35] <skunkworks> how many wats?
[10:42:48] <JT-Shop> oh I forgot the conversion factor
[12:01:39] <mr_new> .
[12:10:05] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:13:58] <PetefromTn> howdo?
[12:14:17] <GammaX> Life is going to be bad very soon lol
[12:14:32] <GammaX> got a mill and a lthe to convert over to emc2!
[12:15:26] <IchGuckLive> emc2 is off use linuxcnc O.O
[12:15:42] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: already mach in use
[12:16:16] <GammaX> am I missing something in regards tio emc2?
[12:16:37] <GammaX> Im not usin mach, thought about it but idk which one would be better....
[12:17:24] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: witch continent are you on
[12:17:29] <PetefromTn> Used mach3 on my first build and now using LinuxCNC.....REALLY LIKE LINUXCNC!!
[12:17:39] <GammaX> USA
[12:17:40] <PetefromTn> North America
[12:17:46] <GammaX> North America...
[12:17:49] <IchGuckLive> ah im in Germany
[12:18:30] <GammaX> PetefromTn, are you using steppers or servos?
[12:19:09] <GammaX> I have steppers on mill and servos on lathe which currently has an anilam crusader lathemate on it.... not lookin forward to it haha
[12:19:40] <PetefromTn> AC servos....Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC
[12:20:45] <IchGuckLive> so GammaX start with the mill
[12:20:56] <IchGuckLive> what version of linuxcnc are you on
[12:21:07] <PetefromTn> If you already have a working machine it should be pretty easy...
[12:21:10] <IchGuckLive> or still emc2 in use
[12:21:14] <GammaX> downloading the newest version right now
[12:21:23] <IchGuckLive> livecd
[12:21:37] <GammaX> yup
[12:21:40] <IchGuckLive> ok
[12:21:56] <GammaX> well... iso. does it still only come in livecd form?
[12:23:39] <IchGuckLive> you need a realtime kernal
[12:23:43] <IchGuckLive> so jes
[12:23:46] <IchGuckLive> y
[12:24:06] <IchGuckLive> you know its on linux as it says linuxcnc
[12:24:22] <GammaX> the idea of livecd still scares the hell out of me for a cnc haha.
[12:25:18] <IchGuckLive> you need to install it LOL
[12:25:33] <IchGuckLive> this may give you 2.5.0
[12:25:49] <IchGuckLive> then update and you get the 2.5.2
[12:25:54] <GammaX> ahhh back in the day it was the other way around, no one installed it lol
[12:25:57] <IchGuckLive> then start off
[12:26:42] <GammaX> im thinkin about grabbing the 6i25 package from mesa for the lathe, the mill already has a parralell bob
[12:27:04] <IchGuckLive> as 99% of as
[12:27:07] <IchGuckLive> us
[12:27:28] <IchGuckLive> neme 34 at mill
[12:27:35] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:27:52] <PetefromTn> MESA cards are excellent, Love my 5i25/7i77 combo...
[12:27:53] <GammaX> i got 23 on xy and 34 on z
[12:28:08] <PetefromTn> What kinda mill and lathe?
[12:28:29] <GammaX> rf45 mill from precision matthews
[12:28:48] <GammaX> lathe is a hardinge hc with lathemate controller
[12:28:55] <PetefromTn> LOL I just sold my RF45 Lathemaster CNC to fund this Monster
[12:28:59] <GammaX> its having issues currently,
[12:29:27] <syyl_ws> envy about the hardinge
[12:29:28] <syyl_ws> :)
[12:29:33] <PetefromTn> Hardinge is a NICE lathe. Just recently sold my Hardinge. It was too small once this VMC is up and running I am gonna look to get a nice CNC lathe.
[12:29:36] <GammaX> picked it up for 1800 bucks...
[12:30:02] <PetefromTn> Got ya beat I paid $300 for mine LOL....sold it for $1000
[12:30:07] <syyl_ws> i would kill for a nice hardinge hlv
[12:30:09] <syyl_ws> :/
[12:30:11] <GammaX> supposadly was working but now controller is having issues
[12:30:27] <syyl_ws> thats how a toolroom lathe should look
[12:30:42] <GammaX> Idk if its becuase there is no power going into the lathe itself though...
[12:31:15] <GammaX> came with all servos, encoders, controller and air chuck
[12:31:51] <syyl_ws> :o
[12:32:57] <GammaX> its a gang tooling type setup. One thing im waiting on is this guy to create my belt drive for the rf45.
[12:33:54] <PetefromTn> WHo dat? I think I built the first EXTERNAL belt drive for the Rf45
[12:37:29] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Thanks again for yesterday.
[12:41:23] <pcw_home> NP I was a little fuzzy but I have run into the same thing
[12:41:25] <pcw_home> (unlike many programing languages you are limited to doing certain things in certain sections
[12:41:27] <pcw_home> (so no logic in port map section)
[12:46:25] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: From the implementation report, I see that I only use one flip-flop of the two in each cell with my xor gate. If I wanted to make the xor clock driven, is there a way to infer that I want to use the second flip-flop in those cells (to avoid wasting resources)?
[12:46:52] <FinboySlick> No need to be very technical about it, I'm at work so can't play with it right now.
[12:47:10] <FinboySlick> I'm just curious as to how much control on the actual hardware one gets.
[12:52:45] <pcw_home> I would not bother, I wouls let the synthesizer so its best
[12:52:58] <pcw_home> do its best
[12:53:22] <pcw_home> it will pack things when is has to
[12:55:26] <pcw_home> only if you really need speed would I worry about using hand placed logic
[12:55:29] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I guess so. I just thought that since a lot of my design will revolve around those, I might as well give it a hand from the get go. I'm already not sure how to make them clock driven or what the correct terminology is. Making it sequential?
[12:56:48] <IchGuckLive> GammaX: install ok
[12:59:08] <pcw_home> you can make registered logic by including it block that only executed at a clock edge:
[12:59:10] <pcw_home> if (clk='1' and clk'event)
[13:00:18] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Heh, it's a lot easier than I expected.
[13:01:00] <pcw_home> Yeah if you have any hardware background its easy to get the hang of it
[13:01:19] <jdh> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/serial-vga That looks nifty, but I can't think of anything I would use it for.
[13:02:46] <pcw_home> And I much prefer it to schematic capture
[13:03:44] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: wow, the i25 cards are Spartan-6 based? What model?
[13:04:38] <pcw_home> little one XC6SLX9
[13:05:30] <FinboySlick> Are there headers to recover if completely messed up? It's way cheaper than buying one of those fancy dev kits.
[13:05:42] <mr_new> did you selected the spartan6 cause its serializer for pcie?
[13:06:00] <pcw_home> Yes theres a JTAG header if you have really screwed up
[13:06:08] <FinboySlick> I've been wanting one for a while regardless, but knowing that I can mess with the fpga on it too, I'd get two! ;)
[13:06:19] <pcw_home> No just speed and cost
[13:06:51] <mr_new> i think so you dont need a pcie bridge right?
[13:07:23] <pcw_home> the 6I25 has a bridge (for cost and ability to bootstrap reasons)
[13:08:14] <mr_new> but it could be done in software, too i think?
[13:08:27] <pcw_home> no
[13:08:30] <FinboySlick> Actually, I'll do that now. They're about 80-so bucks, right?
[13:09:00] <pcw_home> PCIE requires special hardware (the LXT versions)
[13:09:14] <pcw_home> $89 Qty1
[13:09:52] <mr_new> ok... i just had to do hardware design for the virtex5
[13:12:07] <FinboySlick> Can I power the 6i25 from one of the pin assuming that it's dead, or will it have to be in a powered pcie socket? (I expect to mess up often)
[13:12:39] <pcw_home> 6I25 is always recoverable
[13:13:59] <pcw_home> (you can bitbang the config to the SPI EEPROM via the bridge chip: mesaflash does this)
[13:14:03] <FinboySlick> Alright. So email to order, phone for credit card?
[13:14:47] <mr_new> pcw why not jtag for flash?
[13:15:06] <FinboySlick> mr_new: So people can update flash on an installed card I assume.
[13:15:26] <FinboySlick> It would suck to require jtag for a firmware upgrade.
[13:15:36] <mr_new> i mean when you have destroyed
[13:15:41] <pcw_home> Yes JTAG is last resort
[13:16:29] <mr_new> in production they were programmed, too....
[13:17:07] <pcw_home> because of the fallback reboot. its really only developers that should ever have to use the JTAG
[13:18:09] <mr_new> is it a normal 2x10 header?
[13:18:20] <pcw_home> 6 pin
[13:19:35] <pcw_home> its marked on the board
[13:22:25] <mr_new> i dont have it jet just ordred
[13:24:23] <FinboySlick> OK, order placed. I'm happy.
[13:30:28] <IchGuckLive> im off by
[13:32:01] <FinboySlick> I got the deluxe kit... Both types of brackets.
[13:32:24] * FinboySlick is like all blinged out.
[13:34:45] <mr_new> is there a bracket for 2 db25?
[13:35:06] <pcw_home> no
[13:35:15] <pcw_home> wont fit
[13:35:16] <FinboySlick> mr_new: Mine's for high/low profile.
[13:39:22] <jdh> do you have a bitcoin mining firmware?
[13:39:43] <FinboySlick> jdh: I don't think it'd fit.
[13:40:24] <FinboySlick> You need something like a Spartan6 150.
[13:40:54] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: not true. will fit
[13:41:04] <Loetmichel> but only with one bolt shared ;-)
[13:41:50] <pcw_home> :-)
[13:42:11] <FinboySlick> jdh: Then again, they managed to squeeze two cores on a 150 so maybe single core might work. How fast are they clocked pcw_home?
[13:43:19] <pcw_home> Theres a DCM so you can get any clock you like
[13:44:18] <FinboySlick> If you can fit an unwrapped hasher, you get one hash per Hz.
[13:45:05] <pcw_home> SP6 is not blindingly fast but our little processors (like the one in the sserial interface) run cheerfully at 100 MHz
[13:47:03] <pcw_home> and unlike most micros the time to do an I/O cycle is 1 clock
[14:31:09] <skunkworks> mesa in egypt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjKDeiv6bM
[14:39:05] <r00t4rd3d> mesa in halflife
http://i.imgur.com/rL3E2ak.jpg
[15:38:54] <andypugh> I was trying to set up a home-made brushless motor. I couldn't figure out why I could find a pattern than let it run perfectly in one direction but not the other, and another pattern with the opposite behaviour. When I say "properly" I mean start rotating from any position, and not properly means that I could manually rotate it to "holes" it couldn't climb out of.
[15:39:32] <andypugh> I was most surprised to find that the reason was that one phase was open-circuit!
[15:39:51] <andypugh> I would have thought that would stop it working at all.
[15:43:27] <PetefromTn> Question....
[15:44:39] <PetefromTn> I just finally got all three axes working in my machine today. Buttoned up the cabling and setup the wiring in the cable chains. Now I am able to get down to business of tuning the PID on all three axes. I am trying to tune the Z axis motor right now.
[15:47:07] <PetefromTn> It has the weight of the head on it with no counterbalance setup. Reading the tuning guide from gnipsel the first step says to tune the P value for maximum stiffness without oscillation. I am doing that and trying to get it quiet and tight but the motor ALWAYS makes some noise which I am not sure is oscillation or not. It bascially sounds like some kinda AC servo morse code.
[15:47:43] <PetefromTn> It does not appear to be moving at all even very slightly when stationary. Is this satisfactory for the first step LOL?
[16:06:53] <JT-Shop> are you using halscope to monitor your progress?
[16:21:10] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:28:38] <PetefromTn> Yup Connor is here helping me right now. We are trying to figure out what pins to look at in halscope because the names in the pid tuning tutorial are different slightly...
[16:41:04] <mercuryrising> is there any magical trick to increase speed around arcs? my machine can go in straight lines at like 80 mm/s, but around curves it drops down to like 20 mm/s
[16:56:12] <PCW> your machine acceleration ability/settings will determine how fast you can
[16:56:14] <PCW> go around arcs (unless the arcs are made of tiny line segments)
[16:58:27] <mercuryrising> the arcs are tiny segments
[17:16:05] <PetefromTn> Pete ya out there?
[17:16:18] <PetefromTn> PCW: Hey man...
[17:18:58] <PCW> Are you using blend with tolerance?
[17:19:09] <PCW> G64 PN
[17:19:30] <PCW> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/User_Concepts.html
[17:21:31] <PCW> PetefromTn: Hey
[17:24:48] <PetefromTn> PCW: Hey man Connor is here trying to help me tune this Z axis motor, well all of the motors actually. We have the halscope working and we are looking at the Ferror line. When we change the ff1 component it goes from a upslope to a downslope depending on what the setting is. The error appears to be quite small but the Z motor is always kinda making noises that sound like it is hunting ever so slightly. The noise we have
[17:24:48] <PetefromTn> been able to get quieter at times and depending on the position it lands will sometimes go away completely but then you bump the jog and it starts making noise again. Any suggestions?
[17:25:48] <cradek> how many encoder counts is it oscillating/hunting?
[17:25:58] <PetefromTn> How do I tell?
[17:27:07] <PetefromTn> Connor says the noise sounds more like dithering or moaning than hunting perhaps that was a bad term. It just does never really quiet down. We have been playing with bias too trying to get it to quiet
[17:28:39] <PCW> Its going to be difficult to get it completely quite since it has a static load
[17:28:41] <PCW> (unloaded axis can use deadzone for this purpose)
[17:28:57] <mercuryrising> PCW: not yet, I'll check it out though, thanks!
[17:29:14] <PetefromTn> How much bias should I be using Connor says it is only ticking one encoder count...
[17:32:20] <PCW> I would try adjusting bias for minimum static error (if you have any I term. set it to 0 for this adjustment)
[17:33:08] <PetefromTn> how do we monitor static error?
[17:33:33] <PCW> bias would make more physical sense in torque mode (since it would equate to a force)
[17:33:42] <PCW> ferror
[17:33:50] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how's the splitter progressing?
[17:36:29] <PetefromTn> We are up to 2.0 P is at 9 and ff1 is at .04
[17:36:40] <PetefromTn> bias is 2.0
[17:38:50] <PetefromTn> When you say adjust the bias for minimum static error are you talking about the area before the trace shows the movement?
[17:39:16] <andypugh> Just the minimum offset from the commnded position.
[17:39:45] <andypugh> So, either look at the PID error, or the f-error.
[17:40:04] <andypugh> But you might need to use halmeter to get enough digits of precision.
[17:42:12] <PetefromTn> Andy, we are using the halscope to monitor the Ferror on the Z axis and the trace bEFORE movement looks perfectly flat unless you blow it up quite a bit with zoom. The dithering does not seem to get better and we are at 2.5 on bias. What are you looking for when you try to adjust a motor for a unidirectional load? What parameters are usually adjusted?
[17:43:09] <PetefromTn> Halmeter says Ferror is -.2748903 and fluctuates to -.2758 or so...
[17:43:56] <andypugh> That's pretty bad, I think? Anyway, see if the bias can make that zero.
[17:45:29] <PetefromTn> Okay how much bias do you think we should try?
[17:48:21] <andypugh> ABout 0.2748903
[17:48:48] <PetefromTn> is that a joke or are you serious?
[17:48:55] <andypugh> Ah, actually, scratch that.
[17:49:09] <andypugh> What is the steady-state utput of the PID?
[17:49:28] <PetefromTn> Actually we were at 2.5 on the bias and we just went to zero on the bias and the error in halmeter went to .00288
[17:52:27] <PetefromTn> Is that PID in the Z axis or just PID? trying to find that signal...
[17:52:51] <andypugh> probably pid.2
[17:53:35] <PetefromTn> We just hit PID.Z.output and it is fluctuating between .0259 to .0189 or so
[17:54:18] <andypugh> Try a bias of 0.021 then.
[17:54:39] <andypugh> Then possibly a deadband of 2 encoder counts.
[17:55:19] <PetefromTn> Do you mean the deadband setting will be 2.0?
[17:55:40] <andypugh> No, that would be 2 inches!
[17:56:01] <andypugh> Deadband will be however far the axis moves for a couple of encoder counts.
[17:56:26] <PetefromTn> Okay then what do I set it to? Remember we are completely new to this...
[17:57:22] <andypugh> Set it to hawver far the axis moves for a couple of encoder counts. (which will be 2 / your encoder scale number)
[17:57:52] <andypugh> "hawver"? Where the heck did that come from? "However" is the word I wanted.
[17:58:33] <PetefromTn> Okay that would give us .0016?
[17:58:40] <PetefromTn> Encoder scale is 1250
[17:58:56] <andypugh> Are you sure?
[17:59:10] <andypugh> Sounds very low.
[17:59:59] <PetefromTn> When You look at the calibration tab where it says encoder scale it says 1250 which is what the calculator gave us. Already checked travel movemnts and it appears to be spot on as far as distance moved .
[18:00:05] <andypugh> I would expect something nearer to 20,000 for an inch machine.
[18:00:31] <PetefromTn> Well we are running in metric since we have metric ballscrews...
[18:00:44] <PetefromTn> They are 8mm
[18:00:56] <andypugh> Ah, OK. .0016mm sounds fine then.
[18:01:46] <PetefromTn> Okay just tried it and it did not really help or at least no perceivable change
[18:03:44] <PetefromTn> just noticed that the halmeter showing PID.Z.output fluctuated between the .02209 and .021 and when it changes the motor kinda groans at that instant.
[18:15:27] <andypugh> sorry, time to go
[18:48:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/hZF5iHR.png
[18:50:23] <r00t4rd3d> Im so doing that
[18:50:28] <r00t4rd3d> fuck cool ranch though
[19:55:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1329
[19:55:47] <r00t4rd3d> making that
[19:56:32] <tjb1> two more interviews to go to :(
[19:58:44] <r00t4rd3d> Bus Boy jobs are hard to get.
[20:00:19] <tjb1> yeah
[20:00:24] <tjb1> that is what I am applying for
[20:05:34] <r00t4rd3d> you would probably be better off applying for a dishwasher job, they hire any ol retard to do that
[20:10:47] <r00t4rd3d> trying to get a job in austin
[20:15:38] <tjb1> i need a job that pays more than minimum wage
[20:31:53] <Valen> tjb1: strip for webcams
[20:32:24] <r00t4rd3d> "<tjb1> i need a job that pays more than minimum wage"
[20:51:48] <PetefromTn> Hey guys...
[20:58:14] <r00t4rd3d> and girls, (tjb1)
[20:59:58] <PetefromTn> Yup and girls..
[21:03:38] <r00t4rd3d> well saying girl might be an overstatement. Pre-op tranny.
[21:05:58] <PetefromTn> Dude you are not well....not at all.
[21:06:03] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[21:07:19] <PetefromTn> Well I managed to do some more tuning work on the VMC tonight with Connors help.
[21:23:13] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b9creations/b9creator-a-diy-high-resolution-3d-printer
[21:23:39] <L84Supper> for the lazy DIYers
[21:26:51] <Valen> tjb1: is a girl? oh, umm, sorry if my earlier comment about webcams was offensive
[21:28:55] <L84Supper> middle_aged_guy_beer_belly_cam.com
[21:31:31] <PetefromTn> Yeah thanks but no thanks LOL..
[21:35:36] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/cmhqjfx M12 X 1.25 Perma-Coil Thread Repair Kit, helicoil cheap imitation? anyone try this brand?
[21:40:21] <L84Supper> ah it's cheaper since it doesn't come with the drill bit
[21:42:10] <tjb1> no Valen, I am not a girl
[21:42:40] <Valen> oh ok then
[21:42:43] <Valen> go strip for money
[21:45:21] <Jymmm> He'd have to issue refunds.
[21:45:49] <Connor> PetefromTn: I just found a whole slew of pc817 opto's in my stock.
[21:46:47] <PetefromTn> Cool man can we use those? Ran some programs with the machine after you left and it seemed to run real nice and smooth.
[21:47:11] <Connor> Yea. Those are the ones Lee suggested.. Exact model. :)
[21:47:57] <PetefromTn> SWEET!!
[21:48:43] <Connor> So, I need to come up with a simple schematic for the circuit.
[21:48:47] <PetefromTn> Anyone got a link to a youtube video of a full blown 3d machining project I mean constant contouring etc..
[21:49:21] <PetefromTn> Connor: So I am gonna get the differential encoder tomorrow then? I think that is what we decided.
[21:49:59] <Connor> Yea. We don't have to use it differential if we don't want to.. but, if you need it, we can. no extra line driver needed. How much was it compared to the other one ?
[21:50:18] <PetefromTn> About the same really...standby
[21:51:19] <PetefromTn> first one.....
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&keywords=heds-5540%20a06&WT.term=heds-5540%20a06&WT.mc_id=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.medium=cpc&WT.campaign=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.srch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD
[21:51:52] <PetefromTn> second one....
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[21:51:58] <PetefromTn> Same price apparently...
[21:53:28] <Connor> yup. go for the 516-2750-ND
[21:54:58] <mr_new> why not the amt102?
[21:54:58] <Connor> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232#1023216
[21:55:49] <Connor> Cat6 cables.. shielded ones at the bottom.
[21:56:12] <mr_new> http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/sensors-transducers/encoders/1966131?k=amt102
[21:56:28] <PetefromTn> Oh do you think we need the cat cables, I thought we were gonna try the original cable unless it did not work...
[21:56:50] <Connor> mr_new: He's looked at those.. but, it's concerned about melting the plastic hub with this spindle.
[21:57:01] <Connor> PetefromTn: Oh yea.. too many thoughts going through my head.
[21:57:28] <mr_new> i use them
[21:57:29] <PetefromTn> mr_new: Hey man thanks for the link. I actually have an AMT here and while they make a great encoder I honestly don't trust the plastic coupling to the shaft on a 12k rpm motor that controls my spindle alignment for a toolchange.
[21:57:37] <jdh> the encoder shaft will get hot enough to melt plastic?
[21:58:05] <PetefromTn> No honestly it is not really the heat I am worried about it is slippage...
[21:58:26] <PetefromTn> Anyone got a link for the 3d milling with linuxCNC videos?
[21:59:10] <mr_new> if it becomes as hot as you are worry about the plastic you shoulg get worry about your bearings
[21:59:40] <Connor> It's a BIG spindle.. 7.5kw ?
[21:59:48] <Connor> or was that HP.. I don't remember.
[22:00:16] <mr_new> i use them on a 3kw motot
[22:00:16] <PetefromTn> Again not worried about heat....
[22:00:39] <PetefromTn> It is a 5.5kw 7.5HP motor that spins at 12k RPM max
[22:01:06] <mr_new> PetefromTn: i was just to slow tipping on my phone
[22:03:15] <PetefromTn> okay man cool. As I said NOTHING against AMT encoders, I have four of them on my last machine and they are excellent. The commercial nature of this machine and the high speed motor just makes me nervous about using an encoder that clamps onto the shaft using plastic press fittings. This encoder will be responsible for the safety of my toolchanger and I honestly don't want anything that is not dead reliable and these have
[22:03:15] <PetefromTn> setscrew locking to the shaft with steel collars.
[22:04:16] <jdh> what load is on the disk
[22:05:49] <PetefromTn> None....
[22:08:43] <Connor> The likely hood is slim that the AMT102 would have issues.. but, for $23.00 more, he can have a alum hub, and zero chance.. So, If $23.00 buys him the extra peace of mind.. the that's a bargain.
[22:09:02] <Connor> then that's a bargain...
[22:09:26] <jdh> sure
[22:10:02] <jdh> I'm all for other people spending money
[22:10:14] <Connor> Uh Hu. :)
[22:10:51] <PetefromTn> Jeez man you must work for CUI or something LOL
[22:11:03] <Connor> Who ?
[22:12:22] <Connor> I *DO* like the way they install.. using that little tool.. makes it real easy to get dead on. I had a PITA installing 100 count USDigital ones on my robot. of course, part of the problem was the cast iron magnet core I was using to mount the encoders too.. it broke a few drill bits and taps..
[22:12:40] <Connor> and my shaft adapters aren't exactly the best in the world.. but, it works.
[22:13:34] <PetefromTn> CUI makes AMT encoders as far as I recall.
[22:14:13] <Connor> Yea. I'm talking about the Optical USDigital ones similar to what your getting... I had 3 of them given too me. 100 Line, no index.
[22:15:48] <PetefromTn> Trying to find youtube videos of actual 3d milling on linuxCNC...any ideas
[22:15:56] <jdh> search youtube
[22:17:19] <PetefromTn> that's what I am doing....
[22:17:36] <jdh> oh :) you should make one after you are done
[22:18:23] <jdh> the only really good videos I've seen were 4/5 axis and proprietary controls
[22:18:46] <PetefromTn> yes exactly....
[22:19:28] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_udQwy1hJk&list=PL04F6B774F23F6873 perhaps?
[22:19:29] <Tecan> (R_udQwy1hJk) "cutting footpegs with EMC2" by "zyeborm" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:37
[22:20:32] <jdh> most are more 2.5d-ish
[22:22:28] <PetefromTn> YEAH BABY....that's what I'm talking about.....just wanted to see a mill running linuxCNC do some actual constant contouring and make something cool. Once my mill is operational I have been wanting to machine a guitar for myself, nice to know it can do the deed...
[22:23:09] <jdh> 316 guitar?
[22:23:39] <PetefromTn> Whazza 316 guitar?
[22:23:46] <PetefromTn> you mean stainless LOL?
[22:23:51] <jdh> yep
[22:25:00] <PetefromTn> Actually believe it or not I was thinking ACRYLIC!! like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U3SC_jGoNk
[22:25:02] <Tecan> (2U3SC_jGoNk) "My acrylic guitar." by "TheArchangels" is "Music" - Length: 0:00:21
[22:46:49] <mr_new> just 45mins till bed...
[22:47:35] <PetefromTn> Ok man nitey nite!!
[22:48:28] <mr_new> what does this mean?
[22:48:59] <PetefromTn> it means have a good night and sleep well whaddya think it means?
[22:49:43] <r00t4rd3d> can you pocket wood with a laser/
[22:49:45] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[22:50:08] <mr_new> i just didnt know what nitey means.... here we dont speak english
[22:50:23] <mr_new> and its 5.35am
[22:54:05] <mr_new> and i worked for 11h
[22:55:22] <PetefromTn> oopz sorry man. Where are you again?
[22:56:50] <mr_new> ch
[22:57:41] <mr_new> switzerland
[22:57:44] <R2E4> I'm hating Boss 9 controls about now.
[23:03:21] <r00t4rd3d> i dont get it, ch switzerland?
[23:08:34] <r00t4rd3d> im guessing your travel between the 2
[23:08:36] <PetefromTn> Got a neighor nearby who has a Bridgie Boss CNC knee mill with a dead control he wants to retrofit it. Said the control was no fun even when it was working LOL
[23:08:38] <r00t4rd3d> you*
[23:09:02] <r00t4rd3d> slap a tb6560 on it
[23:09:32] <r00t4rd3d> $39.95
[23:12:38] <PetefromTn> whazza TB6560..
[23:12:52] <r00t4rd3d> cheap controller
[23:14:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-NEW-CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-/250968135258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6eddd65a
[23:14:27] <PetefromTn> aah...
[23:14:41] <PetefromTn> Well I think I am done. Goin' ta bed guys...enjoy.
[23:15:16] <r00t4rd3d> see ya tranny
[23:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[23:15:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-3-Axis-TB6560-Motor-Driver-Stepper-Board-Controller-With-Box-For-CNC-Router-/261188446908?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd00b6abc
[23:16:07] <r00t4rd3d> that one is actually better
[23:16:17] <r00t4rd3d> 35 more though
[23:17:42] <r00t4rd3d> how the hell do you turn off spell check on ebay
[23:17:58] <r00t4rd3d> everytime i type something in the search box it changes it
[23:19:15] <r00t4rd3d> their Live Search I guess
[23:19:29] <r00t4rd3d> sucks
[23:19:38] <R2E4> your not adhering to eay's spelling parameters.
[23:19:47] <R2E4> :-)
[23:20:20] <r00t4rd3d> really bugs me, tried to find out how to turn it off and cant
[23:29:19] <mr_new> r00t4rd3d: i thought so yesterday
[23:38:32] <GammaX> anyone have a stepper setup on there mill?
