#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-09

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[00:47:05] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:32:30] * r00t4rd3d DING DONG
[01:33:04] <r00t4rd3d> 11 more days till 4/20, Im so excited.
[01:34:29] <r00t4rd3d> Not sure what I am going to do yet.
[01:34:43] <r00t4rd3d> Oh wait....
[02:43:59] <KimK> Anybody live near North Webster, Indiana? CNC ROUTER HOME MADE FOR PARTS OR REPAIR + Dewalt Router DW670 http://search.ebay.com/151024143807 It opens at $100, no reserve, no bids so far, 8 days left.
[06:32:54] <mr_new> is it possible to generate 2pwm signals on a mesa card per axis one for cw and one for ccw
[06:36:41] <gabewillen> Good morning
[08:32:42] <chopper79> If I already have master on my pc and I want to ger the latest updates that have been made then I would use a git pull correct?
[08:33:20] <jthornton> aye
[08:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> no, sync.
[08:37:18] <r00t4rd3d> well i guess pull would work too
[08:38:07] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[08:38:11] <ReadError> aspire is dumb
[08:38:21] <ReadError> if you copy a part with a toolpath, you would think it would associate it ;/
[08:39:23] <r00t4rd3d> You can copy and paste the tool paths also
[08:40:00] <chopper79> Thank you and from a previous conversation it appears JA3 is now in master. Once I launch linuxcnc 2.6 pre is there a simulator or a special area I need to go to launch the JA3 branch?
[08:40:22] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, try Plate Production
[08:42:49] <r00t4rd3d> its the icon with the ABC and squares
[08:43:48] <r00t4rd3d> I reuse vectors when designing for quickness, if tool paths where coped with them, that would suck.
[08:46:29] <r00t4rd3d> With Plate Production making the same part with the same tool path is simple and quick
[08:47:42] <r00t4rd3d> I like using it also because you can set the distance easily between your parts for bit to fit
[08:49:41] <ReadError> well i was using mirroring
[08:49:48] <ReadError> or i mean
[08:49:50] <ReadError> linear copy
[08:51:23] <r00t4rd3d> you really should go around clicking all the icons and see what they do.
[08:52:44] <jdh> then you can get a job as a windows 'admin'!
[08:53:42] <r00t4rd3d> they raised the credentials ?
[08:56:06] <r00t4rd3d> I China
[08:56:23] <r00t4rd3d> I China'd http://curiouscustoms.com/
[08:56:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/152794-mdf_madness-18.html
[08:56:33] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[08:57:00] <r00t4rd3d> post 209
[08:58:10] <chopper79> ok I have 2.6 pre launched and need to find the JA3 that is now in master. IS there a section I go to to use JA3 or is there a simulator that it functions under?
[09:01:50] <chopper79> Or do I need to load a certain Kinematic module to use JA3
[09:04:02] <pcw_home> yes JA3 uses gentrivkins not trivkins
[09:08:29] <r00t4rd3d> use painters tape and hair spray
[09:09:01] <r00t4rd3d> wrong window
[09:09:04] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[09:09:40] <gabe_willen> Im getting very frustrated , i cant seem to get comp working correctly on this machine. It isn't finding the includes
[09:09:55] <gabe_willen> on my other machine, that i tested it on, it had no problem
[09:10:27] <gabe_willen> its linuxcnc-dev from the apt-get
[09:10:52] <gabe_willen> i tried editing the Makefile.modinc adding -I/usr/inc but the it through's redfine error's
[09:11:02] <gabe_willen> then*
[09:14:43] <chopper79> I seelct a configuration after launching the configuration selection on 2.6 pre and I recieve error messages on everyone I launch. .hal_lib.so: connot open shared object file: no such file or directory. This also is the same arror but substitue .hal_lib.so for gantrykins.so. Also has rtapi_app excited without becoming ready.
[09:15:21] <chopper79> Any guidence on why the included simulation files will not launch? Did I forget a step when building 2.6 pre
[09:16:12] <r00t4rd3d> touch .hal_lib.so
[09:16:18] <JT-Shop> what steps did you take
[09:16:42] <chopper79> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC
[09:17:08] <JT-Shop> which one?
[09:17:46] <chopper79> guess that would help....... 2.2
[09:18:07] <JT-Shop> and the build you used 2.5?
[09:18:09] <chopper79> sorry started at 2.3 since I aleady had master installed
[09:19:15] <JT-Shop> and to run you did . ./scripts/rip-environment in the terminal?
[09:19:29] <JT-Shop> 2.9
[09:19:33] <chopper79> yes then linuxcnc
[09:19:50] <chopper79> splash screen for 2.6 pre shows up and the cinfig selector shows up
[09:20:16] <chopper79> config
[09:20:19] <JT-Shop> when you did make did you get the prompt saying to run sudo make setuid?
[09:20:30] <chopper79> no
[09:20:37] <JT-Shop> make failed then
[09:20:46] <chopper79> ok so I will start fresh
[09:20:54] <JT-Shop> do a make clean
[09:20:57] <JT-Shop> then make
[09:22:01] <r00t4rd3d> ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[09:22:05] <r00t4rd3d> is that needed?
[09:22:36] <AR_> if you are gay
[09:22:39] <AR_> yes
[09:23:37] <chopper79> ok I did make clean and then make and compiling is happening now
[09:24:09] <carper64_lb> make failed on my install yesterday but a shut down and reboot solved the problem for me
[09:25:15] <chopper79> since I already have linuxcnc installed to I still need to do make install-menues or do I skip that step?
[09:25:33] <JT-Shop> skip
[09:25:37] <chopper79> ok
[09:26:20] <chopper79> So after thei compiles I do sudo make setuid then on to rip-envirnment
[09:26:41] <chopper79> fat fingers are horribe
[09:26:46] <JT-Shop> aye
[09:27:09] <r00t4rd3d> picking your nose is probably a bitch!
[09:27:17] <chopper79> yes it is
[09:27:22] <JT-Shop> make sure you put the leading dot like this . ./scripts/rip-environment
[09:27:39] <chopper79> got ya
[09:28:18] <JT-Shop> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=459272100809442&set=a.148116611924994.33707.136531246416864&type=1&ref=nf
[09:31:05] <r00t4rd3d> i cant believe they picked austin texas for the next Google Fiber hook up.
[09:31:15] <r00t4rd3d> fuck those mexicans
[09:31:58] <AR_> google fiber is a scam dont ttrust it
[09:32:04] <chopper79> im in the country so I have wireless internet at my house...... about as fast as Mach turtle
[09:32:22] <chopper79> 5mps on a good day
[09:32:35] <AR_> that's pretty good
[09:33:14] <chopper79> the speed test say that.... they are wrong I think. It takes forever and aday to load a damn web page
[09:34:12] <r00t4rd3d> what do you have like a satellite usb adapter from a cell phone provider ?
[09:34:29] <AR_> dialup
[09:35:35] <mrsun> damn i must have quite some twist in the bed of the lathe :P
[09:35:43] <mrsun> set up tailstock to dead center using dial indicator
[09:36:05] <mrsun> moved tailstock for making a long part .. had to move it half a turn on the adjustment screws :/
[09:36:41] <AR_> that seems like a horrible endeavor
[09:38:50] <mr_new> hi guys
[09:38:54] <chopper79> some wireless ip company that is the only provider in the area of sticks I live in. They are the only provider so they can get away with crappy service
[09:40:30] <carper64_lb> yep i know what your saying we were the same until last year chopper
[09:40:45] <chopper79> I think I found my problem of why 2.6pre would not launch. I built the simulator and not the realtime
[09:41:24] <chopper79> The town north of me has cable and the town south of me has cable. In between is me and I have pony express
[09:41:49] <chopper79> redoing it now and buiding the realtime instead
[09:42:49] <carper64_lb> lol yep we wee still using 2 cans and a taut piece of string untill last yr but still have no cable here and think itg will bea while be fore we do
[09:44:02] <carper64_lb> but have a 20mb line now which is usable unlike the 2mb before
[09:44:08] <chopper79> same here, I figure if they have it north of me and south of me and the hub for service is south of me then how in the heck did they get it north of me?
[09:44:18] <chopper79> not same on 20mb line..... I wish
[09:45:15] <carper64_lb> it looks like you could be at the end of 2 trunks 1 from the south and 1 fro the north with you in the middle
[09:45:36] <chopper79> my luck in a nut shell
[09:45:59] <r00t4rd3d> move
[09:46:14] <carper64_lb> i know the feeling
[09:47:04] <r00t4rd3d> Im kinda in the sticks but everyone has cable
[09:47:17] <Valen> current govt is rolling out fiber to every house (pretty much)
[09:47:31] <Valen> new govt wants to stop that and roll out fiber to the node
[09:47:37] <Valen> because its cheaper and "just as good"
[09:47:51] <chopper79> I am not going to move from the country life for internet service. I can manage with what I have.
[09:48:48] <carper64_lb> i agree with you chopper at leat i can mess about in the workshop at any time of the night with out complaints fom neighbours
[09:49:37] <chopper79> I was outside shooting in my back yard at an old radio.... no complaints from anyone. The simple life is a great thing
[09:50:31] <mr_new> is it not possible, to setup a mesa 5i25 with pncconf?
[09:50:54] <carper64_lb> yes could never go back to living in a town to used to doing pretty much what i want when i want
[09:55:13] <chopper79> I agree
[09:56:29] <carper64_lb> what i really need is a couple of clones so i can get all the projects caught up on
[09:57:29] <chopper79> ok.... So 2.6 pre launches with me configuration. I loadrt gentrivkins and attemp to use, but I am sure there are other things I need to add to the HAL file to utilize this kinematic module. Is there a sample file that shows how the joint mapping is working or some documnetation on where to read up on this?
[09:57:44] <chopper79> I agree carper64
[10:00:01] <tensaiteki> greetings all
[10:00:42] <tensaiteki> I am having trouble with following errors on a stepper gantry machine using a 5i25/7i76 and gantrykins
[10:01:54] <tensaiteki> in joint mode, all joints jog without error, but in world mode, any move results in a following error, even on axis/joints that are not slaved with gantrykins
[10:03:37] <tensaiteki> I've tried upping the MIN_FERROR and FERROR by a lot, to no avail
[10:03:46] <tensaiteki> any suggestions?
[10:13:14] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.html
[10:13:56] <r00t4rd3d> is there a sale on these mesa boards or something?
[10:14:31] <skunkworks> they are cheap at twice the price...
[10:14:41] <PetefromTn> hello
[10:14:57] <PetefromTn> Got an encoder question for you guru's
[10:14:59] <chopper79> tensaiteki - I read somehwere on the forums that the stepgen maxaccel nneds to be about 20% higher then the max_acceleration and default acceleration.
[10:15:17] <chopper79> I did this and it fixed my following errors in world mode.
[10:15:42] <chopper79> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/23995-gantrykins-questions?start=10
[10:19:41] <PetefromTn> I need to order a spindle motor encoder for my Cincinatti Arrow 500. The one my pal lee has on his machine is a avago technologies model 5540-A06. He has been able to make it work fine but I was looking at it and it is apparently a single ended encoder and my mesa cards while they can take differential or single ended the rest of my control is using differentlial setup. The max freq is apparently 4mhz and this is a 500
[10:19:42] <PetefromTn> line encoder on a motor that will spin up to 12000 RPM. Will this work fine and how important is it to have a differential encoder on the spindle since it will orient for toolchange etc...
[10:21:28] <PetefromTn> I want to order this unit soon as that is the next step in my retrofit to get encoder feedback to the computer for the spindle control and indexing. Also looking for a recommendation for the cabling to route it to the vfd to keep out any noise/emf issues. Thanks for any help guys.
[10:21:48] <jdh> if you are buying a new one, you might as well buy a differential one for noise if nothing else.
[10:23:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/82G9xEI.jpg
[10:24:08] <PetefromTn> That's my thinking as well but I have not been able to find one with a lowish line count, ability to take heat and that much RPM anywhere. It seems like Avago makes a fine unit and apparently is who has been making them for USdigital for years. I liked my AMT encoders but do not trust that little plastic press on deal to keep the encoder wheel in place.
[10:24:39] <PetefromTn> who are you freakin' Bruce Wayne?
[10:24:48] <jdh> he's BatGirl
[10:25:01] <PetefromTn> LOL....I LIKE bat girl...
[10:25:46] <jdh> has anyone ever had a problem with plastic press on encoder wheels? There should be mostly zero load on them
[10:26:05] <r00t4rd3d> this is what i copied : http://i.imgur.com/lXfCE58.jpg
[10:26:42] <jdh> do an aspire lithopane on two sides
[10:26:54] <PetefromTn> Looks like a cool scroll saw or laser CNC project...
[10:27:25] <r00t4rd3d> .125 endmill
[10:28:07] <PetefromTn> I had the AMT's on my RF45 and even with the lowish speeds of the servos I was using I had to glue on the plastic spacers for peace of mind. They are spec'd to go to 15k apparently tho...who knows...
[10:28:40] <PetefromTn> Yeah I have made stuff like that on my mill with an .125 three flute and it works fine I was just bustin' your chops...LOL
[10:30:10] <PetefromTn> Digikey has the same model Lee used and it is part number 516-2022-ND..... His has been working fine for awhile now maybe I should just take his advice and buy the damn thing.
[10:30:49] <jthornton> lol
[10:32:03] <skunkworks> I am using a amt on my spindle motor.. (not for rigid tapping - just speed sensing..)
[10:32:35] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/spindle/Spindlemotorenc.JPG
[10:33:09] <skunkworks> The glue lump is a single ended -> differential converter.. I think you can buy them now differential though
[10:35:32] <skunkworks> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AMT103-V%20KIT/102-1308-ND/827016
[10:37:04] <PetefromTn> What is the max speed?
[10:38:48] <skunkworks> I am running 4000rpm - good question
[10:39:43] <skunkworks> depending on the resolution 15000
[10:40:52] <skunkworks> 512 ppr max at 15000rpm -> 2048 ppr max 7500rpm
[10:45:49] <PetefromTn> Yeah I think they are excellent encoders really and once I fixed the very slight slipping problem it never gave me any problems.. I honestly think I need to go with a tight fitting setscrew model encoder honestly tho for this. Thanks for posting your informaiton and pictures tho. Incidentally as far as durability of the AMT's they are bomb proof. I actually had an instance where my SEALED encoder housing I made for it had a
[10:45:49] <PetefromTn> rubber seal fail before I went to RTV sealant and started having motor jumping around on me. When I took it apart the encoder was basically swimming LOL and it STILL worked. Amazing really. Then I cleaned it all up, ordered a new one, put it back together after blowing all the coolant out of the encoder and housing and ran it like that until I got the new one in the mail and never had a problem. Pretty amazing...
[10:45:59] <skunkworks> they work with these line drivers http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=102-1787-nd&x=0&y=0&cur=USD
[10:46:27] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, sure - you are just going to spend some money :)
[10:46:37] <skunkworks> have you looked at automation direct?
[10:47:26] <PetefromTn> Now what does the line driver cable do?
[10:47:55] <skunkworks> the encoder is single ended - it converts the single ended ttl to differential.
[10:48:12] <skunkworks> I have actually used those little devices for non cui encoders...
[10:49:22] <PetefromTn> Oh okay did not know that....
[10:49:45] <PetefromTn> Actually the Avago is only like $47.00 not that expensive really...
[10:50:36] <R2E4_awy> skunkworks; is it you that has the Kearney and Trecker huge machine?
[10:50:47] <skunkworks> yes
[10:50:53] <R2E4_awy> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/kearney.jpg
[10:51:12] <R2E4_awy> This thing is a MONSTER
[10:52:01] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/oldkandt.JPG
[10:52:58] <R2E4_awy> Does yours have the pallet?
[10:53:03] <skunkworks> yes
[10:53:13] <R2E4_awy> woah, thats cool
[10:53:45] <R2E4_awy> That K7T mill, the guy is throwing it away for junk money
[10:54:03] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=objyMqAHUNU&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[10:54:04] <Tecan> (objyMqAHUNU) "full auto pallet transfer on the old K&T" by "samcoinc" is "Education" - Length: 0:01:21
[10:54:31] <skunkworks> huh
[10:55:18] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvP4L_hr90&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[10:55:19] <Tecan> (5vvP4L_hr90) "K&T spindle encoder with collet unclamp/clamp" by "samcoinc" is "Education" - Length: 0:00:28
[10:55:23] <skunkworks> huh - that is neat
[10:55:58] <R2E4_awy> HE is getting rid of it. He called junk guys to come pick it up . getting paid for weight
[11:01:14] <PetefromTn> Okay so Samcoinc is Skunkworks then? Im cornfused
[11:01:23] <skunkworks> yes
[11:01:29] <R2E4_awy> I'd like to build one of those pallet Kerney....
[11:02:12] <skunkworks> I don't confuse on purpose..
[11:02:26] <jdh> yeah, right.
[11:06:11] <PetefromTn> why would you get rid of it after all that work building it?
[11:06:50] <R2E4_awy> no, the guy is getting rid of http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/kearney.jpg
[11:09:54] <DJ9DJ> moin
[11:18:56] <chopper79> k.... So 2.6 pre launches with me configuration. I loadrt gentrivkins and attemp to use, but I am sure there are other things I need to add to the HAL file to utilize this kinematic module. Is there a sample file that shows how the joint mapping is working or some documnetation on where to read up on this?
[11:21:51] <chopper79> When running 2.6 pre which JA3 was merged into. I try to launch the configuration with gentrivkins, but the error report stated cant find module gentrivkins. If JA3 was merged then should the gentrivkins module be in the master also?
[11:23:52] <cradek> joints_axes3 was NOT merged into master
[11:24:00] <cradek> if you are running master you do not have joints_axes3
[11:25:12] <chopper79> (6:16:21 PM) PCW: And Michael just merged in master so its up-to-date
[11:25:14] <chopper79> PCW: JA3 should work, Michael Geszkiewicz has it on production gantry machines
[11:25:25] <pcw_home> master was merged inJA3 so JA3 is up to date
[11:25:46] <chopper79> ok so master is not but JA3 is
[11:26:30] <pcw_home> you need to build the ja3 branch
[11:26:48] <chopper79> well shoot, back to compliling......
[11:27:01] <chopper79> cd linuxcnc-dev git branch --track v2.5_branch origin/v2.5_branch git checkout v2.5_branch
[11:27:33] <chopper79> replace v2.5_branch with joint_axes3_branch
[11:27:59] <cradek> no, replace v2.5_branch with joint_axes3
[11:28:12] <chopper79> ok
[11:28:16] <chopper79> thanks
[11:28:21] <chopper79> i will go to it
[11:28:21] <cradek> no, replace v2.5_branch with joints_axes3
[11:28:39] <cradek> computers are picky
[11:29:49] <Connor> PetefromTn: What was your aversion to the AMT103's ?
[11:30:54] <Connor> really.. AMT102 is the one you want..
[11:31:00] <PetefromTn> plastic coupling to the shaft on a 12k motor that gets kinda hot
[11:31:27] <Connor> No need for right hand connector.
[11:32:08] <Connor> How hot do you think it gets ?
[11:34:13] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/5i52W
[11:35:01] <chopper79> After checkout it shows 4 files, plasma-5i20 hal, ini, plasma-demo hal, ini. Then states switched to joint_axes3 branch
[11:35:26] <chopper79> Should just have to launch 2.6 and select one of the 5i20 configs correct?
[11:36:06] <ReadError> thats my school r00t4rd3d
[11:36:08] <ReadError> AU
[11:38:42] <chopper79> Tried launching the 5i20 config and there is still an error about the gentrivkins module not being found. I look under src directory and there is no module named gentrivkins. The only one close in spelling is genserkins. If the module reallt is gentrivkins and it is not available then how would someone go about getting this?
[11:40:32] <PetefromTn> honestly no idea....the encoder lee used goes to 110 deg c.
[11:42:16] <cradek> when I build joints_axes3 (for sim), I get gentrivkins
[11:42:41] <Connor> AMT102/103 are good up to 100deg c
[11:43:24] <Connor> http://www.cui.com/Product/Resource/PDF/AMT10X.pdf
[11:43:38] <chopper79> I am failry sure I .... shit. I need to go through the build again after I track it and switch
[11:44:49] <Connor> but, AMT10X's aren't differential either..
[11:45:17] <skunkworks> Connor: $8.45 http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=102-1787-nd&x=0&y=0&cur=USD
[11:46:02] <Connor> Ahh Nice. I was going to point him to this one.. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64_78&products_id=337
[11:46:35] <Connor> Only issue with that cable is.. he'll have to add a connector or solder to it.. but, that's no big deal.
[11:47:39] <skunkworks> wow - that is cheap too
[11:48:02] <Connor> Then he can just use a CAT5 cable with it back to mesa board.
[11:48:14] <skunkworks> that is what I used..
[11:48:34] <skunkworks> *stranded and shielded cat 5
[11:49:41] <Connor> skunkworks: He has some prox sensors on the spindle too.. we have NO info about them.. but are going to need to use them.. 1 is a 180 out sensor..
[11:50:17] <Connor> any ideas ?
[11:51:02] <skunkworks> idea's? Hook them up, create hal/ladder to use them effectively.. ;)
[11:51:30] <Connor> Yea.. trying to figure out which wire is which and what voltage they run at...
[11:51:43] <Connor> being industrial and all.. I image they're 24v.
[11:51:58] <skunkworks> 3 wire?
[11:52:01] <Connor> Yup.
[11:52:09] <Connor> So, +v, gnd, and signal.
[11:52:26] <skunkworks> that would be my guess. Hook one up and see what it does
[11:52:35] <jdh> blue, brown, black/white?
[11:52:53] <Connor> PetefromTn: Can you look and see what the wire colors are on those prox sensors ?
[11:55:57] <Connor> jdh: Waiting for him to look and report back. :)
[12:08:43] <gabe_temp> -m
[12:09:53] <gabe_temp> Well i have two somewhat working hal usb components for linuxcnc. I will say that sharing realtime responsibility throug usb could be extermely problamatic
[12:10:03] <gabe_temp> through*
[12:13:40] <PetefromTn> Okay sorry guys been on the damn phone with the folks at digikey. Spoke to a very helpful tech guy. I would LIKE to use a differential input for the encoder. They have a differential encoder very similar to the one that Lee used basically it is the same model only has a differential input. Now the original resolver has a milspec connection on the motor housing that would be nice to use and I MIGHT be able to just take this
[12:13:40] <PetefromTn> differential encoder ribbon cable and solder the ends to the milspec connector after cutting off the end plug. Take a look at it. IF that does not work I will need to either A buy a long ribbon cable and crimp style terminations and make a long cable to go to the mesa card OR B go with the single ended encoder and the line driver setup either the cable from Digikey or the CNC4PC model...thoughts?????
[12:14:13] <PetefromTn> I will be out in the shop trying to solder to these motor leads so if I don't respond soon gimme a minute or ten...peace
[12:14:35] <Connor> PetefromTn:
[12:16:12] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[12:19:15] <jdh> long ribbon cables suck
[12:21:09] <R2E4_awy> 5vdc, isnt that suceptable to noise?
[12:21:41] <Connor> R2E4_awy: That's why they use differential output.
[12:23:56] <PetefromTn> yeah thats what I think that too.. The cable inside the machine now is ALREADY run for the original resolver and I THINK has enough pins in it. If I get the single ended encoder I can hookup with their harness or if I get the Differential encoder I believe it comes with a short ribbon cable terminating in a rs422 type plug. Dunno what would be the best thing right now or even how to best hook it up. Apparently the spindle
[12:23:56] <PetefromTn> drive CAN take inputs but I was just going to hook it all up to the mesa card and only output the analog control signal to the drive...Dunno really
[12:25:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[12:27:29] <PetefromTn> prox sensors wire colors are blue brown black....
[12:28:15] <PetefromTn> Damn I wish lee was on here things would be so much simpler LOL...
[12:28:17] <Connor> PetefromTn: Might check with Lee and see what he figured out with those sensors..
[12:29:34] <PetefromTn> Emailed him two days ago and he has not gotten back to me yet...tryin not to be a pain in the ass.
[12:29:58] <Connor> Yea.. Heard that.. I've got this Friend in Maryville..... :)
[12:29:58] <jdh> I woudl try brown +24, blue gnd, black signal
[12:30:35] <Connor> They have boots on them.. so, he can tone out what wire goes to what on the boot most likly.
[12:30:39] <R2E4_awy> I would try 12vdc first
[12:30:44] <PetefromTn> Oh reallly..?? You mean that friend who machined your parts for your mill without having ever met you before?? for free? LOL
[12:31:16] <Connor> R2E4_awy: No 12v in the original system. Was 3 phase, 110 and 24v
[12:31:17] <jdh> I'd look up the part number and see if it said 10-30vdc
[12:31:26] <R2E4_awy> ah...
[12:31:38] <Connor> jdh: That's the hard part.. we can't find the part number
[12:31:55] <PetefromTn> Yea man R2E4, everything on this beast has been either 110v or 24v...
[12:33:21] <chopper79> I really need some hand holding on this I guess. I have now compliled linuxcnc 4 different times trying to get joint_axes3 with no results. I have tracked the branch, checked out the branch, and then went through the build process 4 times now and still no getrivkins module. This tells me that I must be missing some steps in this process. Can anyone help guide me through this build so I can make sure I have done it correctly?
[12:33:32] <R2E4_awy> what machine are you working on?
[12:38:53] <Connor> R2E4_awy: He's working on a Cincinnati Arrow 500
[12:39:06] <pcw_home> what does 'git branch' print when run in the build directory?
[12:39:56] <PetefromTn> Oh sorry rsE thought you were talking to chopper LOL
[12:40:39] <chopper79> join_axes3 already exsists
[12:40:47] <chopper79> joint
[12:41:08] <chopper79> git checkout switches me to joint_axes3
[12:41:13] <chopper79> from master
[12:42:28] <chopper79> if that is what your asking PCW
[12:43:31] <pcw_home> No, I am asking what is printed if you type 'git branch'
[12:44:13] <PetefromTn> can't find my freakin' hemostats GRRR....
[12:44:15] <chopper79> *joint_axes3 and then below that master
[12:45:00] <pcw_home> when you built it did you build for run in place?
[12:45:11] <chopper79> yes
[12:46:38] <pcw_home> Ahh the expert has arrived
[12:47:29] <PetefromTn> who dat?
[12:47:57] <IchGuckLive> thunderstorm ratching my town B) O.O
[12:48:20] <gabe_w> I am having trouble getting a program that compiled using halcomp on my laptop to compile on this 2.5.2 ubuntu 10.04 machine.
[12:49:42] <pcw_home> micges: chopper79 is tryng to get JA3 running for a gantry system, are there any example hal/ini files for this?
[12:54:08] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d:
[12:56:35] <andypugh> I ought to clean the glass on the door of my oven. It would make it much easier to see when the solder has melted.
[12:57:43] <chopper79> andy: lol, are you using your household oven or do you have a IR oven for reflow?
[13:00:49] <IchGuckLive> gabe_w: what is the version on the notebook
[13:02:01] <R2E4_awy> Are you cooking muffins at the same time?
[13:02:20] <R2E4_awy> flavor metallic?
[13:02:36] <IchGuckLive> donats with titanium sparkels
[13:04:39] <PetefromTn> lead.....its whats for dinner.
[13:04:47] <pcw_home> I used to get stern warnings from my father about that kind of thing "THIS IS A FOOD PREPARATION AREA TAKE YOUR SCIECE EXPERIMENTS OUTSIDE"
[13:06:04] <pcw_home> micges: around?
[13:06:06] <PetefromTn> Thats why you need an expensive thermostatically controlled and regulated heat treat oven/science preparation area in your shop. Doesn't everybody??
[13:06:27] <micges> pcw_home: yes, let me see what we got
[13:06:36] <micges> (reading logs)
[13:07:45] <micges> chopper79: at what point are you now?
[13:08:26] <chopper79> Micges: I am trying to get JA3 to build. No luck on building it yet
[13:09:02] <micges> do you have clean git cloned from linuxcnc.org ?
[13:09:41] <chopper79> I can do another one just in case if that is possible
[13:10:09] <micges> if no just simply make copy linuxcnc source dir
[13:10:15] <pcw_home> did you run that little script at the end of the README file
[13:10:19] <pcw_home> ?
[13:10:37] <pcw_home> to make sure you are running what you just compiled
[13:12:00] <chopper79> after make I run make setuid, then scripts/rip-envirnment
[13:12:49] <chopper79> micges: I want to warn you that simply is not with me on this. I am VERY new to the dev side of linuxcnc and terminal commands. Excuse my ignorance on this topic.
[13:14:14] <micges> relax its easy
[13:14:38] <micges> do you have clean repo now?
[13:14:48] <chopper79> no
[13:14:48] <IchGuckLive> chopper79: "./autogen.sh"
[13:15:25] <IchGuckLive> chopper79: "./configure --enable-run-in-place " even --enable-simulator
[13:15:32] <IchGuckLive> "make"
[13:15:46] <IchGuckLive> ". scripts/rip-environment" dont forget the dot
[13:15:54] <IchGuckLive> "linuxcnc"
[13:15:57] <IchGuckLive> done
[13:16:02] <micges> chopper79: open terminal
[13:16:09] <chopper79> open
[13:16:19] <chopper79> Thanks ich, done that 4 times
[13:16:23] <chopper79> no results
[13:16:46] <chopper79> ok terminal is open
[13:16:48] <micges> chopper79: type: git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git linuxcnc-ja3
[13:18:06] <chopper79> ok- Intialized and recieving objects
[13:20:51] <chopper79> 24% in few minutes I am guessing
[13:21:18] <IchGuckLive> chopper79: needs more coffee
[13:21:25] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[13:21:41] <micges> chopper79: ok
[13:22:30] <chopper79> Ich- no coffee for me. I am already high strung ;)
[13:22:44] <IchGuckLive> take a TEA B)
[13:23:19] <IchGuckLive> amomile O.O
[13:23:19] <IchGuckLive> C
[13:24:11] <PetefromTn> make mine an RC with Ice and turn up the Pandora when you get a second...
[13:24:48] <IchGuckLive> PetefromTn: how is the weather in tennesie
[13:25:17] <chopper79> micges- it is done
[13:25:39] <PetefromTn> IchGuckLive: honestly quite nice after a whole BUNCH of really cold stuff it is a welcome change LOL
[13:26:32] <IchGuckLive> i se severe storms around chicago down to cansas
[13:26:52] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
[13:27:22] <PetefromTn> cya...
[13:29:53] <micges> chopper79: type: cd linuxcnc-ja3
[13:30:10] <gabe_willen> i think i figured it out
[13:30:22] <gabe_willen> the notebook is using rt-preempt
[13:30:27] <chopper79> done
[13:30:51] <gabe_willen> i suppose the kernel module compilation is completely different of RTAI
[13:31:09] <gabe_willen> on rt-preempt i can use fcntl.h, termios.h
[13:31:25] <micges> chopper79: git branch --track joints_axes3 origin/joints_axes3
[13:31:32] <gabe_willen> that is what i was using for the hal usb-serial module
[13:31:47] <gabe_willen> the hal usb-hid module is a kernel driver
[13:32:01] <gabe_willen> neither of which probably working on RTAI
[13:32:02] <gabe_willen> lol
[13:32:18] <gabe_willen> i figured it was too easy to implement there had to be a catch
[13:32:20] <andypugh> Yes, I am using my domestic oven :-)
[13:32:48] <gabe_willen> also the new kernel 3.x don't lock on usb access any more
[13:32:54] <gabe_willen> :(
[13:33:08] <gabe_willen> back to hal usbstreamer, it works... but i wanted actual halcomponents
[13:33:26] <chopper79> ok
[13:33:28] <chopper79> done
[13:34:09] <micges> chopper79: git checkout joints_axes3
[13:34:25] <PetefromTn> Thank the Lord I did not apparently try my Y axis servo yesterday when I tried to modify the mil spec barrel connector to fit inside the column. Apparently one of the leads came off on the power side and the motor was all crunchy sounding for the second it took me to kill the servo on button. Today I repaired the connections and hooked it all back up to power to test on the bench and thankfully neither the drive or the motor
[13:34:25] <PetefromTn> are bad now. WHEW!! I thought for a minute I was going to be buying a new motor to the tune of around $400.00!!
[13:35:02] <gabe_willen> I don't see how the Lord came into play?
[13:35:03] <chopper79> ok switched to JA3
[13:35:11] <gabe_willen> j/k
[13:35:22] <gabe_willen> it looks like you did all the work though
[13:35:25] <micges> chopper79: cd src
[13:35:56] <micges> chopper79: now standard compile commands
[13:36:20] <chopper79> realtime or sim?
[13:36:53] <micges> are you on ubuntu 10.04 rtai?
[13:37:12] <gabe_willen> who?
[13:37:40] <micges> sorry :)
[13:37:43] <micges> chopper79: are you on ubuntu 10.04 rtai?
[13:38:02] <chopper79> micges-yes
[13:38:12] <micges> chopper79: so realtime
[13:38:51] <micges> chopper79: ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make && sudo make setuid
[13:41:27] <gabe_willen> looks like ill be tweaking rt-preempt... see what i can get it down too.
[13:42:24] <chopper79> its compiling now
[13:42:50] <micges> good
[13:50:09] <chopper79> micges: still compliling
[13:51:27] <chopper79> I know this may be premature, but once this is done and the machine is operational. Can this be built so I can load it onto multiple computer just as the normal linuxcnc?
[13:52:47] <chopper79> Micges: Its done compling
[13:53:08] <micges_> I don't know if there is a package for this version
[13:53:37] <micges_> for now probably you must compile it on every pc you want to use it
[13:53:43] <chopper79> ok done with sudo make setuid
[13:53:59] <chopper79> ok sounds good, if all goes well it will be a few hundred PC
[13:54:27] <micges> wow, how so?
[13:55:17] <andypugh> If they are all identical PCs, you can just clone them.
[13:56:57] <chopper79> I figured I woudl do a clone of the hard drive and do that
[13:57:18] <micges> chopper79: sim/axis_mm is config for start
[14:01:20] <chopper79> micges: i have launched this config. So I should now be abel to go into the JA3/configs/ and modify this config to test with correct?
[14:02:28] <micges> try sim/gantry
[14:04:44] <chopper79> sim/gantry is using gantrykins correct
[14:06:07] <micges> so base your config on it
[14:06:47] <micges> but if its gantrykins it will switch to joint mode in few situations
[14:07:20] <chopper79> Gantrykins does not work well though so the JA3 branch and gentrivkins was recommended
[14:07:36] <chopper79> am I missing something about this>
[14:07:41] <chopper79> ?
[14:07:43] <micges> no correct
[14:07:59] <micges> I mean correct
[14:08:30] <micges> give me few minutes to remember how to use this thing
[14:08:59] <chopper79> Is there a smaple file using gentrivkins and tandem motors with auto squaring?
[14:09:05] <chopper79> sample
[14:09:57] <micges> nope
[14:11:03] <chopper79> If joints need to be mapped out as they do in gantrykins then do they use the same naming convention between the two kinematic modules?
[14:11:14] <micges> gentrivkins is generally gantrykins kinematics but without be able to move joints directly
[14:11:39] <micges> so probably you must just swap them
[14:11:41] <chopper79> such as if I build using gantrykins and then loadrt gentrivkins instead of gantrykins
[14:11:46] <micges> (in hal file)
[14:12:00] <micges> yes
[14:12:17] <chopper79> ok, makes perfect sense now.
[14:12:46] <micges> hold on
[14:12:48] <chopper79> Are the same issues there such as ignoring soft limits, folowing errors, etc
[14:12:57] <chopper79> when using gantrykins
[14:13:22] <micges> no that's what is ja3 for
[14:15:57] <chopper79> ok, so it hides joint mode, and corrects the other issues.
[14:16:12] <chopper79> but maps out like gantrkins
[14:16:15] <micges> base your config on sim/axis_mm, just add additional [JOINT_n] section, change trivkins to 'loadrt gentrivkins coordinates=XXYZ', change [KINS]JOINTS = 4
[14:17:00] <chopper79> I already have a complete config based on gantrkins that I can use. Just need to drop it isn the folder and change the kins module I woudl guess
[14:17:54] <micges> nope
[14:17:59] <chopper79> lol
[14:18:03] <chopper79> figures
[14:45:21] <chopper79> micges: Thank you for your help this has cleared up a lot of questions and has set me on my way. No its time to start making up my config file.
[14:46:07] <micges> welcome
[14:53:00] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsUZXXPbK8w
[14:53:03] <Tecan> (VsUZXXPbK8w) "Ian Dury - Razzle In My Pocket" by "Ruvar Laro Vivily" is "Music" - Length: 0:02:59
[14:57:06] <cradek> he's staring at me
[15:01:11] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64gvmHKWaWc
[15:01:12] <Tecan> (64gvmHKWaWc) "The Streets - Fit But You Know It" by "BigDic Johnson" is "Music" - Length: 0:04:15
[15:56:29] <andypugh> I am not sure whether it was the use of the oven to reflow the solder (rather than trying to run it under the edge with an iron) or whether it was me finally looking at A and B phases separately and realising that I had encoder and Hall signal wires mixed up that made the difference (possibly both) but it seems that my abandoned project is now unabandoned.
[16:02:41] <jdh> faster?
[16:02:45] <jdh> <urk>
[16:15:02] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:16:27] <andypugh> I wonder if there is a way to home-to-f-error? I have a widget that really can't have a home switch, but could home to a hard stop.
[16:17:43] <andypugh> In a related question, it would be nice to be able to do ZW arcs...
[16:43:42] <L84Supper> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/muve-1-3d-printer-open-uv-resin-based-3d-printer how to take the fastest type of 3D printer and slow it down to GGG speeds :)
[16:48:51] <AR_> wtf is that shit L84Supper
[16:48:56] <AR_> that looks dumb as shit
[16:49:05] <AR_> why does it keep dipping it up and down
[16:49:16] <L84Supper> who knows
[16:51:26] <DaViruz> probably to compensate for the insane tilting when it lifts
[16:51:41] <L84Supper> it's bottom up projection through a vat, so it has to unstick each layer before moving on to the next
[16:51:42] <DaViruz> i thought he only had a leadscrew on one end at first
[16:52:11] <L84Supper> using galvos would make it 10x faster
[16:52:18] <L84Supper> using a DLP 100x
[16:52:44] <AR_> rofl DaViruz i noticed that too
[16:52:55] <AR_> hwo does it work?
[16:52:56] <L84Supper> but a laser on a XY belt drive is just silly
[16:52:57] <AR_> laser?
[16:53:22] <L84Supper> yeah, think of a reprap with laser vs nozzle
[16:53:45] <AR_> seems worse than regular extruder 3d printer
[16:54:05] <AR_> messy resin
[16:54:11] <AR_> doesnt seem worth it
[16:54:18] <AR_> unless it was a lot faster
[16:54:32] <L84Supper> I just don't get some people, what's next a low speed cnc mill?
[16:55:01] <DaViruz> my beef with the hobby extruder printers is mainly print quality
[16:55:08] <DaViruz> i just can't se a use for the parts they produce
[16:55:28] <L84Supper> all the GGG printers are pretty slow and low res
[16:56:22] <L84Supper> it's just a slow tech and the nozzles are not good at stopping and starting so the res is never very good
[16:56:52] <tjb1> hey ReadError
[16:58:34] <ReadError> hi
[16:59:00] <tjb1> you use inkscape?
[17:02:09] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ehlWYfdS70 DLP SLA is over 6mm/minute for build rates now
[17:02:10] <Tecan> (8ehlWYfdS70) "3D Printing (Photolithography)" by "Mrsec Ieg" is "Tech" - Length: 0:07:21
[17:02:22] <L84Supper> jump to ~ 1:50 for the action
[17:03:25] <L84Supper> 1,6-hexanediol diacrylate is on the slow side for a photopolymer component
[17:05:05] <gabe_willen> Will someone double check my logic, if i have an 7200cpr encoder(28,800ppr), i needed a max rpm of 90(1.5 rotation's per second). (((ppr*rps)/1000)/2) = 21.6 millisecond thread that should be 2x the pps
[17:06:36] <gabe_willen> im programming CMSIS_RTOS for arm and i want to make sure that thread is fast enough
[17:10:28] <L84Supper> 11.5ms thread
[17:12:08] <gabe_willen> where did i go wrong?
[17:12:18] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rps = 43,200. 1/43200 = 23.1ms and half that is 11.5ms
[17:13:14] <gabe_willen> okay, thanks i have it at 6 microseconds right now
[17:13:32] <gabe_willen> that was just for debugging
[17:13:54] <L84Supper> at least what my KCalc says
[17:20:21] <PetefromTn> ola'
[17:29:28] <andypugh> Hi Pete
[17:30:46] <PCW> andypugh: you can do an approximate current (torque) calculation on a voltage mode bridge
[17:30:48] <PCW> by taking the PID output and subtracting the velocity times the motor BEMF constant times RPM
[17:31:25] <PCW> ( for running into the stop detection)
[17:32:34] <PCW> -times RPM
[17:32:48] <andypugh> Ah, yes, that might be easier.
[17:32:57] <PCW> got that there twice
[17:38:44] <PetefromTn> Heya Andy...
[17:50:32] <Tom_itx> andypugh, what axis is W?
[17:51:02] <andypugh> parallel to x
[17:51:22] <Tom_itx> lcnc doesn't support that?
[17:51:46] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&keywords=heds-5540%20a06&WT.term=heds-5540%20a06&WT.mc_id=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.medium=cpc&WT.campaign=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.srch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD
[17:51:49] <Tom_itx> is W a rotary axis?
[17:51:54] <PetefromTn> Looking for advice here guys, This morning I touched on my spindle encoder setup. I am looking at two options currently. One is to use a single ended encoder that my friend used on his retrofit successfully. I can use it with a line driver cable as has been suggested and hook it up in the original cabling from the old control where it leaves the motor housing to the electronics cabinet. Here is a link to the first option
[17:51:54] <PetefromTn> encoder and the line driver.
[17:52:08] <PetefromTn> Here is the line driver...
[17:52:23] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=102-1787-nd&x=0&y=0&cur=USD
[17:53:24] <PetefromTn> Now here is the OTHER option a differential encoder of the same design from the same company but uses a ribbon cable which I would probably solder into the same mil spec connector and original cable as the previous option.
[17:53:46] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[17:54:05] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=mc10g-25-nd
[17:54:25] <PetefromTn> http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=hpa10h-nd
[17:54:58] <PetefromTn> Lemme know what you guys think is the best option for noise abatement and signal clarity...thanks...
[17:56:46] <Tom_itx> those look similar to the HP HEDS encoders
[17:58:43] <gabe_willen> Okay L84Supper, somethings not right
[17:59:04] <skunkworks> Tom_itx: UVW are usually setup as Tool direction.. So lets say on a 6 axis machine where the tool is pointing in a certain direction - UVW allows you to do things like peck drilling, rigid tapping along the tool direction
[17:59:32] <gabe_willen> if i just set it to 200us thread and its hitting 200 everytime, i miss counts at 56rpms
[17:59:48] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, like on a non fixed spindle?
[18:00:19] <L84Supper> 1/43200 = 23.1us and half that is 11.5us
[18:00:19] <gabe_willen> I have a digital tachometer, so im pretty sure that speed is right
[18:00:32] <Tom_itx> i've never programmed for a 5 or 6 axis
[18:00:38] <L84Supper> meant uS went I wrote mS before
[18:00:49] <gabe_willen> are you in micro seconds?
[18:01:04] <gabe_willen> ahh
[18:01:04] <Connor> PetefromTn: The http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462 has a connector on the end right ? I have header pins that we can make a adopter for it..
[18:01:05] <gabe_willen> okay
[18:01:22] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rps = 43,200. 1/43200 = 23.1us and half that is 11.ums
[18:01:34] <L84Supper> 11.us
[18:01:35] <gabe_willen> thats at 90rpms though
[18:01:46] <gabe_willen> that fastest i can get it is 56rpms
[18:02:03] <andypugh> In this case I am trying to look for the name of a radial axis like you get in a facing borer, like this one: http://www.scottmachinery.co.nz/dbimage.php?meth=norm&img=BORE-1-0003__1
[18:02:34] <PetefromTn> Okay yeah they DO indeed look like US Digital ones because these folks apparently MAKE the US digital ones for US digital LOL...
[18:02:38] <Tom_itx> i would think it would be A andy
[18:02:47] <Tom_itx> since it's the first rotary axis
[18:02:51] <andypugh> No, A is a rotary.
[18:02:59] <L84Supper> gabe_willen: whats your rotation speed? 1.5rpm or rps?
[18:03:12] <andypugh> I am talking about a linear that rotates on the spindle.
[18:03:22] <Tom_itx> ok
[18:03:41] <PetefromTn> Connor: If you mean the differential model I was thinking that I could just take the ribbon cable and cutoff the connector and split the individual wires into the mil spec barrel connector on the side of the motor housing. Peace
[18:03:42] <gabe_willen> never mind, i know what i was doing
[18:03:59] <andypugh> You see the handle at the back of the headstock? That moves the slide in the chuck (by a mechanism that I have never figured out)
[18:04:03] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rpm = 43,200ppm
[18:04:08] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:04:11] <Tom_itx> i wondered about that
[18:04:26] <gabe_willen> 1 rps
[18:04:32] <gabe_willen> 60rpms
[18:04:49] <Connor> PetefromTn: Yea. You probably can do that..
[18:04:50] <L84Supper> <-- been up too long
[18:04:55] <gabe_willen> me too
[18:04:59] <andypugh> My mill, with the VFD, can do 1rpm. Not much call for that, though.
[18:05:01] <L84Supper> math over for today
[18:05:03] <Tom_itx> andypugh, that axis is mounted to a rotary axis though isn't it?
[18:05:11] <Tom_itx> or is it stationary
[18:05:22] <andypugh> Yes, but it moves in mm, not degrees.
[18:05:27] <Tom_itx> odd
[18:05:47] <andypugh> You bolt a boring tool to it, and the slide changes the boring diameter.
[18:06:09] <Tom_itx> it's almost like a large boring bar tool
[18:06:13] <Tom_itx> interesting
[18:06:29] <andypugh> It is a horizontal boring machine, so that is no real surprise :-)
[18:07:02] <Tom_itx> so your axis in question is the tool adjustment?
[18:07:05] <gabe_willen> if it does 28,800 rotations per second, thats 28.8 ms correct?
[18:07:16] <gabe_willen> im trying to figure out how you got micro seconds
[18:07:42] <gabe_willen> not rotations
[18:07:45] <gabe_willen> pulses per second
[18:07:50] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Sometimes. It can be the feed when facing a circular register.
[18:08:03] <andypugh> There is a motor drive to it, for facing.
[18:08:24] <Tom_itx> is this one of your new toys?
[18:10:22] <andypugh> No, it was actually just an illustration of what I am thinking of. Mine doesn't exist yet. (However, my dad has a Kearns like that, this actual one: https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5748835739430726082?banner=pwa but that isn't such a clear picture :-)
[18:11:24] <gabe_willen> if i put the thread at 10us its dead on the money, its just frustrating because i don't know where my math is wrong
[18:12:14] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rps = 43,200. 1/43200 = 23.1us and half that is 11.5us, but.....
[18:14:55] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rpm = 43,200ppm. 43200 / 60 = 7200pps = 139us per pulse
[18:15:25] <L84Supper> wait a sec
[18:16:37] <L84Supper> 28800ppr x 1.5rpm = 43,200ppm. 43200 / 60 = 720pps = 1.39ms per pulse
[18:16:43] <gabe_willen> thats better
[18:16:44] <gabe_willen> lol
[18:16:52] <gabe_willen> i knew you were thinking wrong
[18:17:00] <gabe_willen> lets just do 1 rotation per second
[18:17:11] <L84Supper> I'm shot
[18:17:11] <gabe_willen> 28,800 / 1000 thats 28.8 milliseconds
[18:17:16] <L84Supper> too many typos
[18:17:47] <gabe_willen> for some reason though at 200 micro seconds i miss pulses
[18:18:42] <L84Supper> why did you divide by 1000?
[18:19:10] <gabe_willen> 28,800 pulses per second
[18:19:15] <L84Supper> 1/28800 = time period
[18:19:18] <gabe_willen> 1000 milliseconds in a second
[18:19:20] <L84Supper> per pulse
[18:19:54] <L84Supper> so
[18:20:38] <gabe_willen> i haven't slept much the past few days, and it reflects in my programming and math
[18:20:52] <L84Supper> 28800 pulses in 1 second. 1/28800 = time per pulse
[18:21:14] <L84Supper> too many distractions here
[18:21:22] <gabe_willen> your right
[18:22:38] <gabe_willen> 16 micro seconds
[18:22:52] <gabe_willen> should be 2 times the minimum
[18:23:22] <gabe_willen> the function itself takes 1 microsecond
[18:23:46] <gabe_willen> i disabled all interrupts so i know its executing completely
[18:25:03] <gabe_willen> well can't use the CMSIS_RTOS the best it can get is 1ms
[18:25:13] <gabe_willen> millisecond
[18:25:51] <gabe_willen> im glad i checked before i started, Im not using it right now. Just wanted to make sure i was thinking correctly.
[18:26:47] <gabe_willen> I did fiddle with it and was able to bring the osTick down to 10us but its only good for about 2 or 3 threads
[18:30:36] <gabe_willen> spent $350.00 on this encoder, and i forgot to include the index letter into the part number, and i am frustrated with my self. though for that amount of money you would think it would come with everything.
[18:31:56] <PCW> Ya get no bread with one meatball
[18:32:55] <gabe_willen> it looks nice so i'll give them that, but hopefully i don't have to buy one this high in cpr again
[18:32:57] <andypugh> gabe_willen: Any chance they will take it back (possibly for a restocking fee)?
[18:33:40] <gabe_willen> andypugh its been about 5 months since i ordered it, just waiting for down time on the machine to swap it out with the 2500cpr that was on there.
[18:33:49] <gabe_willen> so i doubt it
[18:33:53] <gabe_willen> plus it was custom order
[18:34:15] <gabe_willen> had a fancy * next to the cpr, i knew it would be pricey
[18:34:58] <gabe_willen> i should of bought a resolver, but didn't realize that until my conversation with you a while back
[18:36:43] <PetefromTn> back after tacoes and black bean soup...yum
[18:37:58] <andypugh> PetefromTn has a spare resolver too.
[18:41:30] <PetefromTn> Indeeeeedd He do...
[18:41:43] <PetefromTn> Looks brand new LOL
[18:42:13] <PetefromTn> Any thoughts on my revolting encoder dilemma?
[18:43:36] <gabe_willen> you should of heard the stepper motored on my first try at writing a pid algorithm with this encoder.
[18:43:44] <gabe_willen> motor*
[18:44:39] <PetefromTn> Wow Andy is that your big old iron horizontal? I would LOVE to have one of those old monsters in the shop especially with a vertical attachment. SWEET machinery. Peace
[18:44:40] <PetefromTn> Pete
[18:44:58] <gabe_willen> i have pretty smoothed out now, i can get with in one line .0125 of a degree at a nice 21600 degree's a minute
[18:45:49] <gabe_willen> i have a micro stepping resolution of 144 :)
[18:46:09] <gabe_willen> to achieve a theoretical one to one with the encoder, one step for each line
[18:47:50] <andypugh> PetefromTn: No, that belongs to my dad, but it is a very nice machine that I have become rather fond of over the last 35 years or so that I have had access to it.
[18:48:52] <PetefromTn> Wow man just looking thru your pictures in that file and BOY you got it bad my friend LOL... You are probably worse than I am in collecting every single possible bit of machining type artifact known to human kind...LOL
[18:49:27] <DaViruz> wait untill you see archivists collection ;)
[18:50:12] <PetefromTn> Can't wait Virus....!!
[18:50:22] <PetefromTn> Your name isn't sirus is it?
[18:51:44] <DaViruz> no, actually it's joakim tornqvist
[18:53:24] <PetefromTn> Well Hello Joakim...
[18:56:35] <DaViruz> andypugh: you don't happen to know mike harrison?
[18:56:48] <andypugh> I don't think so.
[18:59:04] <DaViruz> he posted a video where he repaired a weird package stepper driver like this one https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5469721364857131746?banner=pwa
[19:00:01] <DaViruz> but i can see now that it's not the same, his was on a ceramic hybrid substrate
[19:01:13] <DaViruz> in other words: never mind :)
[19:10:22] <PetefromTn> Nobody has an opinion about my Encoder dilemma?
[19:15:30] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Not really. Differential is probably better, but shielded TTL will probably be fine.
[19:15:52] <andypugh> Do you want the encoder for rigid tapping?
[19:16:50] <andypugh> If you had left the resolver on there you wouldn't need to worry, as they are absolute they just recover from glitches :-)
[19:18:32] <PetefromTn> Well I can most certainly put the encoder back on there but I don't think that my 5i25/7i77 combo will play nice with it. I DEFINITELY want rigid tapping as well as spindle alignment for toolchange... My spindle drive is the Hitachi wj200.
[19:18:54] <PCW> TTL will probably work and there are options if its noisy
[19:20:39] <PCW> I would worry about mechanics first if its a high speed spindle
[19:20:50] <PetefromTn> Hey Pete, Can I use the resolver on this setup because if I can It is Already here LOL. Lee is using the single ended encoder and no line driver and has not had any issues, typically I am not so lucky with stuff but ya never know.
[19:21:24] <PCW> is the encoder mounted on the spindle shaft?
[19:21:56] <PetefromTn> It's NOT actually a high speed spindle. Basically the spindle is a 6k RPM spindle and the motor is driven with a 2-1 belt ratio. The encoder is mounted on the motors shaft and there is a 180 out sensor on the spindle body for positioning.
[19:22:33] <andypugh> Pete, you could use the existing resolver + an adaptor board into the 7i77 encoder inputs: http://www.pico-systems.com/resolver.html
[19:22:49] <PetefromTn> I was going to try to install a spindle mounted encoder but after looking at it and knowing Cincinatti used the motor mounted encoder with the 180 mask I decided to go with what it came with. Lee arrived at the same conclusion.
[19:23:14] <andypugh> That is a more expensive solution than the encoder, though.
[19:23:17] <PCW> Yeah that PICO card should work
[19:23:34] <PCW> may be cheaper if the encoder is hard to mount
[19:23:49] <andypugh> Differential outputs too.
[19:24:02] <PetefromTn> The encoder will require a shaft adapter and a simple mount all homebuilt so no extra costs.
[19:24:25] <PetefromTn> Looking for easy but also looking for dead reliable mostly.
[19:24:30] <PCW> We really should make a one channel sserial resolver interface
[19:24:42] <andypugh> The resolver is a higher-quality transducer, but that is probably irrelevant
[19:24:54] <PetefromTn> why?
[19:25:13] <PCW> they tend to be tougher
[19:25:31] <PCW> (than encoders)
[19:25:54] <PetefromTn> Well it lasted this long and looks virtually brand new. I would be happy to reinstall it if I can figure out how it went back together LOL.
[19:26:36] <andypugh> Well, the encoder will be entirely adequate. The resolver is tougher and contamination-resistant, but by converting to quadrature pulses you are losing the absolute-position advantage. (Though, if the Pico adapter is near the PC, then there is very little chance of intereference)
[19:26:41] <PetefromTn> To get the spindle positioning and speed feedback would I route the encoder information into the 7i77 or into the drive? Not even sure it will take that info just yet.
[19:27:00] <andypugh> Into the 7i77.
[19:27:00] <PCW> to the 7I77
[19:27:35] <Valen> andypugh: looks cold wherever you are ;->
[19:27:48] <PCW> so linuxCNC can slave the Z axis for tapping etc
[19:27:49] <PetefromTn> Okay thats good. The PC is again up in front of the machine housed inside the rather large original pendant. The 7i77 is out back...
[19:28:20] <PetefromTn> Will that result in accurate spindle alignment for toolchange operations?
[19:28:40] <PCW> yes with some HAL work
[19:28:50] <andypugh> PCW: A set of smart-serial resolver boards would have worked nicely for my setup, but I suspect that with all the cleverness required on-board they might be expensive. (Unless they only returned the analogue amplitudes, and left the conversion to angle to HAL)
[19:28:52] <skunkworks> over those distances - the speed of light doesn’t effect you :)
[19:28:59] <PetefromTn> Of course LOl...
[19:29:38] <andypugh> Right, time to go.
[19:29:46] <PCW> For 1 or 2 channels I think it would be cheap (say $59.00 or some such)
[19:29:47] <PetefromTn> Huh?
[19:30:31] <PCW> that was too fast to say goodbye
[19:30:52] <PetefromTn> Pete, if this were your machine with an eye to making it bulletproof as possible and you needed to make the spindle work as designed which way would you go here I guess that is what I am looking for.
[19:31:49] <PCW> I would probably use the encoder that your friend has. If there are noise problem, then they can be dealt with
[19:32:36] <PetefromTn> Apparently LinuxCNC can work with the 180 out mask and I can use the encoder pulse for spindle alignment and I suppose I can use the line driver to convert to differential signal
[19:32:51] <PCW> (either with a line driver at the encoder of digital filtering of the encoder inputs)
[19:33:13] <PetefromTn> Or would it be better to use the differential encoder of the same basic design with the driver built in..
[19:33:59] <PCW> the mask might need to be gated with the index signal externally
[19:34:32] <PetefromTn> Basically this....http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&keywords=heds-5540%20a06&WT.term=heds-5540%20a06&WT.mc_id=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.medium=cpc&WT.campaign=Sensors,%20Transducers&WT.srch=1&WT.content=text&WT.source=google&cur=USD
[19:35:00] <PetefromTn> or this....http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HEDL-5540%23A06/516-2750-ND/2219462
[19:35:14] <PetefromTn> How would that be done?
[19:36:05] <PCW> What sensor does the i80 mask use?
[19:36:11] <PCW> 180
[19:36:36] <PetefromTn> It has a simple proximity sensor with a ramp on the spindle body that makes the contact for half the duration of rotation
[19:37:43] <PetefromTn> I was just planning on hitting an input on the 7i77 with it as well as the rest of the same sensors which control the tool clamp, tool unclamp, and tool present sensing.
[19:41:15] <PCW> Probably all doable in HAL i was thinking of index mask but you are not threading so index is really only needed for spindle orient
[19:42:59] <PetefromTn> I dunno we are going to rigid tap....?
[19:44:29] <PCW> rigid tap does not need index
[19:44:53] <PCW> (AFAIK)
[19:45:33] <PCW> but your spindle orient would be more repeatable with it
[19:46:21] <PetefromTn> Okay I have never configured an actual rigid tap. My RF45 used a floating tap head and open loop spindle control with my best attempts at synchronizing LOL
[19:46:46] <s1dev> anyone know anything about the Taig lathe and mill?
[19:47:34] <PetefromTn> as far as I know I HAVE to have the index for spindle alignment. Basically the index only works when the mask is off so you don't get a 180 out condition which would be bad...
[19:47:48] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Yeah they're cute!! LOL
[19:48:37] <s1dev> PetefromTn: I don't have the space for and can't afford much more than $1000
[19:48:56] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: where are you mounting this encoder?
[19:49:02] <PetefromTn> Taig's are actually quite nice for their size
[19:49:21] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: on the top of the spindle motor where the resolver once was..
[19:49:54] <skunkworks> what is the ratio between the spindle motor and the spindle ?
[19:50:01] <PetefromTn> 2-1
[19:50:04] <skunkworks> oh
[19:50:20] <PetefromTn> 6k spindle RPM 12k Motor RPM max
[19:50:31] <skunkworks> yikes
[19:50:42] <PetefromTn> howyamean?
[19:50:50] <skunkworks> so you are going to get 2 indexes for every rotation of the spindle..
[19:51:05] <skunkworks> is it a timing belt?
[19:51:06] <s1dev> PetefromTn there's a cheap kit model K1019 for $163 I know I'll have to get the tailstock and pulleys, but what else do I need?
[19:51:19] <skunkworks> like - it is always exactly 2:1
[19:51:42] <PetefromTn> yup and there is a 180 out spindle proximity sensor on the spindle body that was used to mask the other index pulse
[19:51:55] <s1dev> later I'll get a 1/2 hp sherline motor but for now I'll stick with the terrible one that comes with it
[19:52:07] <PetefromTn> Yup timing belt... always 2-1
[19:52:22] <skunkworks> ah - so I think you do want to do what you say you do... You want to mask one of the indexes - even for rigid tapping...
[19:52:28] <skunkworks> PCW: ?
[19:53:39] <PCW> Does rigid tapping use the index? seems unnecessary (I know threading uses index)
[19:53:40] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Here ya go..http://www.cartertools.com/setup.html
[19:53:46] <skunkworks> yes
[19:54:07] <skunkworks> PCW: so each thread starts the same place...
[19:54:10] <s1dev> PetefromTn thanks
[19:54:12] <skunkworks> if needed
[19:54:30] <PetefromTn> Well wouldn't you only use the index mask for the alignment not rigid tap?
[19:55:03] <PCW> Sounds like its always needed
[19:56:01] <r00t4rd3d> Green Lantern
[19:56:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/4UPIBrT.jpg
[19:56:32] <PCW> so that means it does need to be masked
[19:56:33] <PCW> I think this can be done in HAL by gating the index enable pin but its ugly sinec index-enable is a bidirectional signal
[19:56:35] <skunkworks> PCW: is there a way to do index masking with the 5i25?
[19:56:37] <PetefromTn> COOL...
[19:57:02] <Connor> skunkworks: PCW said their is.
[19:57:08] <Connor> I already talked with him about this..
[19:57:26] <PCW> possibly with a custom config (that steals a encoder pin from a unused channel for use as index mask)
[19:57:29] <PetefromTn> Honestly wouldn't you use the index mask all the time either for alignment OR rigid tap?
[19:57:42] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: in this situation - yes.
[19:58:23] <Connor> The OTHER option is a hardware mask.. That's basically a simple AND gate.
[19:58:31] <PCW> Yes
[19:59:00] <PetefromTn> so what makes this difficult then? Apparently this is how the machine worked initially before I got my grubby little hands on it and gutted the bejeezus out of it LOL
[19:59:13] <PetefromTn> Would that work at 12k RPM?
[19:59:30] <Connor> PCW Custom config? I thought they're was a way to do it already...
[19:59:34] <PCW> the encoder counters have a index mask option but it not normally available in the 7I77 configs
[19:59:48] <Connor> Ahh.
[19:59:53] <PCW> custom 5i25 firmware
[20:00:08] <PetefromTn> Oh crap now we are getting complicated...
[20:00:16] <Connor> PetefromTn: Nah..
[20:00:20] <skunkworks> eh - no worries.
[20:00:31] <PetefromTn> Oh worries man.....WORRIES!!
[20:00:56] <PetefromTn> s1dev: you making that lathe CNC?
[20:02:10] <PCW> pretty sure you could do it in HAL though 12000 RPM is 200 Hz so there would be up to 72 degrees phase shift if sampled at 1 KHz
[20:02:38] <PetefromTn> that with a 500 liner?
[20:02:43] <skunkworks> that might be easier - if you can figure out the bi-directional index...
[20:02:52] <skunkworks> (you are just worried about the index...)
[20:03:19] <PCW> the othe rpossible issue is if the Prox is fast enough (it may have only been used for spindle orient)
[20:03:21] <PetefromTn> I'm worried about my Z axis tearing my toolchanger off the side of the machine LOL.
[20:03:45] <PetefromTn> Oh that is true did not think of that....
[20:04:52] <PetefromTn> Probably not gonna be tapping at any more than say 1k RPM and that is only if I get REALLY brave LOL
[20:04:55] <PCW> on the other hand I doubt you will be rigid tapping at 6000 RPM
[20:05:04] <PCW> Ha
[20:05:09] <PetefromTn> Yuppers
[20:05:50] <PetefromTn> Typically 2-300
[20:06:15] <Connor> okay, what about my idea of using a external AND gate to mux the two signals together and send them into the index input ?
[20:06:36] <PetefromTn> This is a dilemma that I need to sort out before I can move any further with this machine and the toolchanger is gonna be a must have.
[20:06:37] <Connor> they 180 out has a ramp that covers 1/2 of the spindle..
[20:06:40] <PCW> maybe an OPTO
[20:07:04] <skunkworks> Connor: aww - don't take the fun out of it... ;)
[20:07:12] <PCW> (if the PROX is a 24V device)
[20:07:37] <PetefromTn> The prox sensors look almost like machine screws with wires coming out the back dunno the part number so finding the max rated cyclic speed will be difficult
[20:07:39] <Connor> PCW we're assuming it is because the machine s 24v, 110v
[20:07:47] <PetefromTn> LOTSA FUN of course...
[20:08:04] <s1dev> PetefromTn eventually
[20:09:04] <Connor> skunkworks: Why is that taking all the fun out of it? :)
[20:09:07] <PetefromTn> s1dev: might also look for one of the industrial sherline models that were used for training CNC people and retrofit it with linuxCNC, they pop up on ebay often and already have a lot of what you want there....
[20:09:31] <Connor> PCW What are you thinking with a Opto ?
[20:10:03] <s1dev> PetefromTn how often is often and how much is it usually?
[20:10:15] <Connor> Have one side of it powered by the prox sensor output and the other side on the encoder index output ?
[20:10:16] <PetefromTn> Pretty cheap and fairly often...
[20:10:34] <PetefromTn> Like a couple hundred or less..
[20:10:49] <s1dev> oh wow
[20:11:44] <PCW> Yeah I was thinking of OPTO as a series gate with a pulldown (assuming active high index)
[20:12:20] <skunkworks> we are still using the original prox sensor and circuit that came with the k&t (tool chain pocket sensor).. I just worked so - wth
[20:12:26] <skunkworks> 60's vintage
[20:12:28] <s1dev> how does it compare to the taig lathes? looking at pictures of the sherline mill, the spindle is supported by a single bar whereas the taig mill is supported by a square extrusion
[20:13:12] <Connor> That would be easy to make.. What about differential signal?
[20:13:28] <Connor> or do we need to worry with it on the index ?
[20:13:40] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Dunno man they are both tiny machines and very light duty but you would be amazed at some of the stuff folks make with them.
[20:14:40] <Connor> Dinner time, back in a while.
[20:15:43] <PetefromTn> s1dev: also look at the EMCO training lathes... they are probably much nicer quality and I've seen them go for cheap not working controls as well...
[20:17:14] <PetefromTn> Connor: enjoy dude...
[20:18:34] <PetefromTn> s1dev: look at the Compact 5 model and wait for a smokin' deal to pop up.
[20:23:29] <PetefromTn> Would this idea to use the AND gate setup require a special board?
[20:25:14] <s1dev> PeterfromTn those I'd look on ebay as well right
[20:25:20] <skunkworks> it would require a custom made board by Connor the way it sounds "_
[20:25:23] <skunkworks> :)
[20:26:24] <PCW> Its also doable via a custom 5i25 config but you would have to translate the prox's 24V output to TTL
[20:26:49] <PetefromTn> s1dev: yup, there was a manufacturer that specialized in making these kinds of training CNC lathes and they came in a nice neat tabletop package but the name escapes me right now. I am sure if you search for these types of lathes you will happen upon one.
[20:27:04] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: LOL Connor is da man...LOL
[20:27:14] <PCW> (and route the TTL signal to a spare encoder input pin on the 7I77)
[20:27:55] <PetefromTn> PCW: what do you mean translate the 24v output to TTL ya mean drop the voltage to5v?
[20:28:04] <PCW> Yes
[20:28:51] <PetefromTn> can I use the same encoder input that the spindle drive is using IE the number five encoder inputs? Perhaps one of the pin 16-19 encoder inputs in the input section?
[20:29:08] <PetefromTn> How can you do that and would it be fast enough?
[20:29:38] <PetefromTn> Hate to sound so damn clueless about this stuff but hey man I live there sorry.
[20:31:14] <PCW> you would need to steal a pin from encoder channel (say 3 or 4)
[20:31:34] <PetefromTn> I can do that...
[20:31:38] <PCW> or perhaps on 5I25 P2
[20:32:04] <PetefromTn> Again that is up front in the computer about ten physical feet from the 7i77...
[20:32:34] <s1dev> PetefromTn something like this? it's a compact 8, what's the difference? http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMCO-COMPACT-8-LATHE-/321101832455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac3292107
[20:32:42] <Connor> Back. Good spaghetti.
[20:33:23] <Connor> I always forget about the second connector on the 5i25.
[20:35:02] <PetefromTn> s1dev: well that is a little larger and not CNC.... I am sure you are also aware of the HF mini lathes too. cheap lower quality but tons of folks use them and make them CNC too..
[20:35:04] <Connor> okay. So PetefromTn Either use 5i25 with custom firmware. which will still require a TTL Logic Shift board (24v to 5v) and use a pin from the second connector.. or a hardware AND gate..
[20:35:49] <Connor> If someone can draw up a schematic of it.. I can build it.
[20:35:51] <PetefromTn> Okay that's so easy....NOT? I dunno what you guys are talking about really here other than the basic concepts
[20:36:31] <PetefromTn> Again the 5i25 is over ten feet away and we are already dealing with a signal loss problem with the encoder itself no?
[20:36:58] <Connor> PetefromTn: Firmware would have to be provided by PCW. :) I know NOTHING of their firmware.. and we just upload it.. then everything else it straight forward..
[20:37:03] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:37:14] <PetefromTn> IF we went with something the AND gate seems the most logical altho not sure about making it noise resistant since the thing wil be pretty near the spindle drive, big monster.
[20:37:14] <Tom_itx> woops, scrollback bites again
[20:37:34] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Yes what?
[20:37:46] <Connor> I don't think so.. because you still have to shift it to 5v.. so, shift it to 5v right before it comes to the 2nd connector. let the normal index go to the encoder 5 index pin.
[20:38:14] <s1dev> PetefromTn I figure that if I'm going to get a harbor freight lathe I might as well get a taig lathe with a longer bed, put in a sherline motor, probably some tooling and end up in the same place as the HF lathes am I correct in this assumption?
[20:38:15] <PetefromTn> LOL
[20:39:16] <Connor> on the and gate hardware solution... it'll be in the electronics enclosure.. prox sensor and index from encoder go into it.. and then a muxed signal comes out and goes into 7i77
[20:39:56] <PetefromTn> S1 yes with my limited knowledge of the subject that is correct. You do realize these are REALLY TINY LATHES right? I mean take a good look at the pictures of the taig assembly I sent you the link to and compare the guys hands to the pieces parts. If a lathe that small will work for what you want to do any of the aforementioned models should work fine.
[20:40:23] <Connor> Honestly, we can try both solutions.. neither are expensive.
[20:40:40] <PetefromTn> what does muxed mean? Oh and while I am looking stupid what does compiling linuxCNC mean?
[20:41:00] <PetefromTn> Oh I like inexpensive solutions....when they work LOL
[20:41:11] <Connor> muxed = combining two signals together into 1 using some sort of logic.
[20:41:43] <s1dev> PetefromTn I just want to get the best lathe I can for the money
[20:41:54] <PetefromTn> s1dev: Another one to look at is the Boxford machines....just checked ebay and none are on there that look okay sorry..
[20:41:55] <Connor> compiling means converting humane readable source code into machine code so the computer can execute the instructions. :)
[20:43:28] <Connor> using a AND circuit.. you take 0 & 0 = 0, 1 & 0 = 0, 0 & 1 = 0, 1 & 1 = 1
[20:43:51] <PetefromTn> s1dev: My advice is buy the LARGEST lathe of the highest quality you can afford and cry about the price once. The Sherline, Taig, mini, etc etc are very very small and limited on both work envelope and horsepower. If all you make is very small pieces then they are excellent machines. If you ever plan on making anything more than a few inches round you will probably be unhappy with them.
[20:44:06] <Connor> so, the only time the output is 1 is when both index and 180 out sensor are active. :)
[20:44:18] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[20:45:15] <PetefromTn> Believe it or not the AND part I knew LOL... It's how to make it work in harmony and look professional without wires hanging in space and resulting in a DEAD RELIABLE feedback..
[20:45:27] <PetefromTn> What does BBL TTGH mean?
[20:45:39] <Connor> Umm.. Google that one.. :)
[20:45:49] <PetefromTn> kay...Googling...
[20:46:21] <Connor> individually..
[20:46:34] <Connor> Or ask your oldest .. She'll know. :)
[20:47:22] <PetefromTn> Be Back Later, Time to Go home?
[20:47:41] <Connor> yup
[20:48:37] <PetefromTn> Oh you guys are so silly with all of your little urban computer nerd slang tee hee....
[20:48:46] <Connor> http://www.torrent-invites.com/miscellaneous/75977-guide-abbreviations-irc-chat.html
[20:49:40] <PetefromTn> Thanks dude... I'll cherish it always LOL
[20:50:25] <Connor> as far as making something hang in space.. We'll but terminal blocks on it and make it look nice..
[20:50:42] <Connor> and you be able to mount it in the enclosure cleanly.
[20:51:16] <PetefromTn> So to sum it up, Buy either the single ended encoder and the line drivers or the differential encoder and splice the ribbon cable into the milspec barrel connector on the motor side?
[20:51:54] <Connor> Yea. I don't think this part of it has anything to do with the encoder used..
[20:52:12] <Connor> Only thing I have a question about is having to have the index differential too..
[20:53:04] <Connor> and that might be as simple as having 2 OPTO's in the circuit, 1 for each side..
[20:53:25] <PetefromTn> Maybe putting the encoder on the spindle body is worth the effort to make the bracketry so I don't have to mess with all of this electronics wizardry...
[20:54:27] <PetefromTn> Sure wish there was a real simple easy way to do it.. Nothing I do is ever easy...LOL
[20:54:30] <Connor> Honestly.. It's up to you.. But.. I think this with the and circuit or input mask is the way to go.
[20:55:09] <Connor> http://upload.kanakh.com/uploads/12950178032.jpg
[20:55:13] <Connor> take a look at this..
[20:55:54] <Connor> Opto. Prox sensor on the right side...
[20:56:02] <Connor> err.. LEFT side.
[20:56:26] <Connor> index on the right. (acting as VCC)
[20:56:50] <PetefromTn> Wow that's nice.....errr what the hell is it?
[20:56:52] <Connor> when both prox and index are active.. it'll output a signal.
[20:57:53] <Connor> okay, tell ya what. CONFIRM for me what the voltage is on those prox sensor and what wire is what.. and I'll build and test the circuit.
[20:58:44] <Connor> I MAY even already have opto's that'll work.. I need to check.
[21:00:49] <PetefromTn> I will try but honestly I don't know how to, I will poke around with it tomorrow and see if I can make it work with 24vdc, that way if it IS 110vdc I can just not worry about blowing anything right?
[21:01:14] <Connor> Well.. I was hoping Lee could tell us.
[21:04:06] <jdh> I have a bunch of DIN optos, and TTL->24vdc, but not 24->TTL
[21:04:08] <PetefromTn> Just emailed him eariler about the encoder he used and how he did it and now I sent anther email about the sensors... Maybe by morning we will have an answer...
[21:05:00] <PetefromTn> jdh: Oh man that would be sweet if there is such a thing as the 24v-TTL optos with Din Rail mounts....
[21:06:28] <PetefromTn> Just googled it and apparently there is....
[21:06:57] <Connor> More needed than just a opto though. . Need a few resistors in it as well.
[21:08:30] <PetefromTn> http://www.calex.com/cis549.html
[21:12:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/09/att-1gbps-fiber-internet-austin-texas-official/
[21:12:14] <jdh> this is for index only, no need for real speed?
[21:12:28] <Connor> jdh: Correct. Just up to 6k rpm
[21:12:32] <r00t4rd3d> now att planning fiber for austin too
[21:14:20] <PetefromTn> Well we do need spindle speed feedback...
[21:14:48] <Connor> index will be 12k RPM prox sensor will be 6k RPM.
[21:14:57] <Connor> But, that's slow
[21:15:13] <Connor> that's only 200hz.
[21:16:13] <Connor> http://www.cncgalore.com/Cincinnati%20Machinery%20Parts/1251741-158808-cincinnati-arrow-500-magnetic-spindle-orientation-sensors
[21:16:16] <Connor> That's the sensors..
[21:17:00] <Connor> Hmm.. that one photo shows 2 different sizes..
[21:17:39] <PetefromTn> Doesn't tell us anything we don't already know right?
[21:17:54] <Connor> I was hoping it did.. but those numbers I think are internal to that site.
[21:18:08] <PetefromTn> How is it 200hz?
[21:18:32] <Connor> 12000 RPM / 60 = 200
[21:18:55] <Connor> 200 times per second. is 200 Hz.
[21:19:45] <jdh> looked through boxes.. have ttl->relay and ttl optos->5-48vdc
[21:20:53] <PetefromTn> Okay man thanks for lookin'
[21:21:10] <PetefromTn> Sorry for the bonehead on the HZ
[21:21:17] <jdh> replaced one of my heat pumps last week because it looked like crap and thought it would die soon, but it was still working. The other one died today
[21:21:33] <Connor> Nice. :(
[21:22:14] <Connor> Damn. Can't find crap on the true part #'s for those prox switches..
[21:22:42] <PetefromTn> Yeah man Sorry for the heat pump dude...
[21:23:25] <jdh> yeah, they are 21 years old... can't complain.
[21:23:34] <Connor> Time to go vedge out a bit..
[21:23:39] <Connor> long day.
[21:25:28] <PetefromTn> Yeah me too... Thanks for all the help guys...peace
[22:21:18] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Are you awake?
[22:23:22] <pcw_home> barely
[22:24:10] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I have a very basic vhdl question for you. You use xilinx?
[22:27:45] <pcw_home> Yes
[22:28:11] <FinboySlick> http://pastebin.ca/2354300 a => a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8) is the bit throwing me an obscure warning.
[22:28:49] <FinboySlick> Should I be declaring an alias instead, or a signal?
[22:30:47] <FinboySlick> Sorry if it looks ugly and pointless btw, this is my third evening actually trying to learn the syntax so I'm very noob.
[22:31:06] <AR_> learn verilog instead it is highly superior
[22:31:25] <AR_> vhdl is so 2004
[22:31:37] <FinboySlick> Heh. I'll hopefully learn both.
[22:31:43] <FinboySlick> But I decided to start with vhdl.
[22:31:53] <r00t4rd3d> cnczone workin for anyone else?
[22:32:09] <pcw_home> verilog is a mess
[22:32:16] <AR_> rofl
[22:32:23] <AR_> vhdl is less organised imo
[22:32:36] <AR_> verilog is closer to C organization
[22:32:44] <pcw_home> Yuck
[22:32:54] <FinboySlick> OK, guys, you can only argue languages once I have my answer ;)
[22:32:58] <AR_> lol
[22:33:03] <pcw_home> a bad macro processor followed by an assembler
[22:33:05] <AR_> what is the problem
[22:33:53] <FinboySlick> "Actual for formal port a is neither a static name nor a globally static expression" On the line where I try to use &
[22:34:22] <FinboySlick> The only google result was just as cryptic as the message.
[22:34:30] <AR_> i dunno
[22:34:39] <AR_> i'm kindof confused as to what a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8) is doing
[22:35:08] <AR_> bitwise anding an 8 bit with a 23 bit word
[22:35:12] <AR_> ????
[22:35:14] <pcw_home> a byte rotate
[22:35:24] <AR_> oh
[22:35:31] <AR_> weird
[22:35:38] <pcw_home> & is concatenate
[22:36:41] <pcw_home> Your code looks really weird to me, what are you trying to do?
[22:38:28] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Well, it's just an experiment. I'm trying to implement "(a rightotate 7) xor (a rightrotate 18) xor (a rightshift 3)"
[22:38:55] <FinboySlick> Mostly toying with instantiation and what not, cutting my teeth on the language.
[22:39:24] <pcw_home> the first function looks OK the second one has strange port map foo in the middle
[22:39:29] <AR_> horribly inefficient
[22:40:17] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I thought that was how I instantiate the 3 branch 32bit xor I defined above.
[22:42:37] <pcw_home> Yes I guess so
[22:42:39] <FinboySlick> my 's0' block is basically something that takes the initial 32bits of a, shuffles them, and outputs the result.
[22:43:34] <AR_> in case anyone uses SpeedyMetals and needs stock:
[22:43:36] <AR_> http://media.speedymetals.com/5751/Speedy-Metals-2013-04.png
[22:43:56] <pcw_home> You dont have a a signal
[22:45:10] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: I thought that was defined on line 18.
[22:45:40] <pcw_home> Nope those are just formal parameters
[22:46:49] <FinboySlick> OK, so I'll have my original 32bit value coming in on port a of block s0. How do I create a signal out of that?
[22:47:56] <pcw_home> signal MyrealA : std_logic_vector(31 downto 0)
[22:48:53] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Wouldn't I need that in xor_3_32 too then? It doesn't have a, b or c signals.
[22:49:26] <FinboySlick> (I'm probably missing something obvious here)
[22:49:58] <pcw_home> things on the right side of the port map assignment are real signals or variables
[22:50:00] <pcw_home> on the left are the formal parameter names
[22:51:17] <pcw_home> no because you have not actually invoked the function at that point, just defined it
[22:51:41] <pcw_home> to invoke the function you need the actual data
[22:51:55] <FinboySlick> Ok, it's clearer now.
[22:53:19] <FinboySlick> So I need to create a signal for the input and output of s0
[22:55:00] <pcw_home> well wait a second it should be OK its a more subtle error
[22:55:34] <FinboySlick> Technically, it's a warning, not an error. I'm just trying to understand what it means.
[22:58:13] <pcw_home> try doing the concatenation somewhere other than the port map line (What you can do in port map lines is limited)
[22:59:12] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: If I define a variable, will it create actual logic on the chip or will it be equivalent?
[22:59:21] <pcw_home> I know subranges work but it may be the concatenation is a bit to exotic
[23:00:15] <pcw_home> no, it will be minmized away if not registered
[23:04:02] <pcw_home> rot8 process (a)
[23:04:04] <pcw_home> begin
[23:04:06] <pcw_home> newa <= a(7 downto 0) & a(31 downto 8);
[23:04:07] <pcw_home> end;
[23:04:09] <pcw_home> Port Map(
[23:04:11] <pcw_home> a => newa,
[23:11:31] <pcw_home> I probably would have defined these as functions as it makes them clearer when invoked
[23:12:06] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Heh, I will very likely do that too. I'm just toying with building blocks right now. 'process' is new to me. I'm reading documentation on it now.
[23:12:21] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Thanks a bunch for your help, btw.
[23:12:55] <FinboySlick> vhdl is a bit of an undertaking when you've never played with programmable logic before.
[23:13:26] <FinboySlick> This is trickier than having my arduino blink a led.
[23:13:57] <pcw_home> I took me a while to understand out what actually gets inferred from the VHDL
[23:14:22] <FinboySlick> Heh, I synthesize and then I look at the logic blocks ;)
[23:15:01] <FinboySlick> But anyway. Time for me to sleep.
[23:32:03] <Connor> pcw_home: On the prox sensor and index for Pete's machine.. Prox sensor goes into the High voltage side of the opto... How does the index get wired in ?
[23:32:19] <Connor> Going to build a test circuit..
[23:46:00] <r00t4rd3d> is cnczone working for anyone?
[23:48:14] <r00t4rd3d> can anyone check?
[23:48:17] <r00t4rd3d> anyoen
[23:58:55] <jdh> no