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[01:09:12] <r00t4rd3d> you can get the cheaper pi's now
[01:09:13] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.alliedelec.com/lp/120626raso/
[01:09:20] <r00t4rd3d> model B
[02:00:43] <Connor> Anyone know how to set up glade toggle bottons so that if you toggle one on, it toggles the others off ?
[02:16:57] <mhaberler> either use radiobuttons, or you need to program handlers which set the state of other widgets
[03:32:01] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:37:16] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:18:13] <jthornton> wow I over slept this morning
[06:47:02] <Tom_itx> cold rainy days do that
[06:53:26] <jthornton> and road trips
[06:53:35] <jthornton> got another one today
[07:51:49] <ProxDem> jthornton: you wouldn't happen to have a nice probekins how to on that webpage of yours now would you =P
[07:53:10] <jthornton> I don't even know what a probekins does
[07:53:50] <jthornton> how is that different from a trivkins?
[07:59:16] <ProxDem> uses a probe grid instead
[07:59:36] <ProxDem> I have a sag in my X axis (hopefully not in any other axis
[07:59:55] <jthornton> for the Z axis?
[08:00:13] <jthornton> like using a surface map?
[08:00:18] <ProxDem> only way to correct that would be to adjust the Z axis with a surface map
[08:00:33] <ProxDem> yeah but would have to always apply to any running job =(
[08:00:56] <ProxDem> especialy the bed leveling one lol
[08:18:09] <r00t4rd3d> eww aspires trial edition is now 4.0
[08:18:38] <AR_> hi
[08:25:36] <ReadError> whats different r00t4rd3d ?
[08:32:48] <r00t4rd3d> not really sure
[08:38:44] <AR_> anyone here do PCB milling?
[08:39:11] <roh> not yet
[08:40:58] <AR_> i'm currently using Eagle with pcb-gcode to generate the toolpaths
[08:41:10] <AR_> wondering if there's anything better that is also free
[08:49:07] <skunkworks> I used the gcode.ulp from the wiki
[08:49:30] <skunkworks> it is setup to do tool changes with a tool length switch.
[08:50:02] <skunkworks> setup the first tool - linuxcnc measures it - then every tool is referenced from the first.
[08:52:56] <AR_> yeah
[09:36:03] <r00t4rd3d> i just designed wood mallet:
http://i.imgur.com/BTrAzXK.jpg
[09:36:58] <AR_> you are a good designer
[09:51:52] <skunkworks> AR_,
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/top.JPG
[09:52:07] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/bottom.JPG
[09:52:13] <skunkworks> a failed attempt...
[09:53:43] <AR_> lol
[09:53:45] <AR_> what happened
[09:55:04] <L84Supper> how do you fixture the plated PCB for milling since the boards tend to be warped?
[09:55:20] <syyl> double sided tape works great
[09:55:23] <AR_> a lot of people just tape them
[09:56:19] <AR_> what i plan on doing is taking a piece of wood or plastic and milling flat a rectangle the size of the board
[09:56:49] <AR_> and tape the sides or something if clamping warps it too much
[09:57:14] <AR_> every way of clamping i've tried has bowed the board too much
[09:57:18] <syyl> just surface a piece of something
[09:57:22] <syyl> and tape it
[09:57:26] <AR_> yeah
[09:57:28] <syyl> works just fine :)
[09:57:40] <AR_> doesnt it move at all just being taped?
[09:57:41] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Deckel%20G2/port4_2.jpg
[09:57:44] <syyl> nope
[09:57:46] <AR_> i guess the cuts are so light
[09:58:02] <AR_> nice
[09:58:06] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/Deckel%20G2/port4_1.jpg
[09:58:13] <AR_> what tools do you use?
[09:58:28] <syyl> i use a 60deg single lip engraving cutter
[09:58:35] <L84Supper> what if you had a nozzle (say 0.003" dia) and copper ink you could attach to a mill?
[09:58:39] <AR_> lol
[09:58:52] <AR_> like a 3d printer with copper
[09:59:03] <AR_> you could make 3d circuits
[09:59:22] <syyl> but i dont machine any more pcbs
[09:59:32] <AR_> etch?
[09:59:36] <syyl> it hand them to a company to etc/drill/etc it
[09:59:42] <AR_> yeah
[09:59:46] <syyl> so i get a perfect industrial grade pcb
[09:59:52] <skunkworks> This seemed to be the final solution
http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/right.JPG
[10:00:04] <syyl> except for the layout ;)
[10:00:07] <skunkworks> but I never put it into real service.. Just tested it.
[10:00:10] <AR_> i just figure for small boards it would be nice to have a setup for quick prototyping
[10:00:21] <skunkworks> I used vacumm
[10:00:21] <AR_> without hte mess of chemical etching
[10:00:24] <syyl> thats a serious cap
[10:00:26] <syyl> :D
[10:01:09] <AR_> what does it even do
[10:01:26] <skunkworks> 20A 200v brushed servo pwm amp
[10:01:45] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/latestcurrentlimit/latestschem.png
[10:02:21] <AR_> oh
[10:02:44] <skunkworks> I found some amc drives off ebay instead..
[10:02:53] <skunkworks> 40a400v... :)
[10:18:41] <r00t4rd3d> ready to cut:
http://i.imgur.com/KUD3Fcf.jpg
[10:18:43] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[10:28:42] <AR_> is that 1 or 2 mallets
[10:30:35] <skunkworks> 1 I would guess - laminated
[10:30:56] <AR_> i see
[10:37:51] <r00t4rd3d> 1
[10:42:57] <r00t4rd3d> when i glue it all together the handle will be 1.5inches thick and the head will be 3inches thick
[10:44:49] <r00t4rd3d> then i will put it on craigs list for 20 bucks :)
[10:48:26] <r00t4rd3d> gonna cut out of reclaimed pallet boards
[10:48:36] <r00t4rd3d> free wood
[10:48:40] <r00t4rd3d> just like morning
[10:51:02] <Tom_itx> what do you stain the lettering with?
[10:51:45] <r00t4rd3d> paint or gel stain
[10:52:03] <r00t4rd3d> ill mask it first with painters tape before i do the v cuts
[10:52:38] <r00t4rd3d> then you only have to hit it a touch with sandpaper after you paint/stain it
[10:52:50] <r00t4rd3d> if any leaks under
[10:52:57] <r00t4rd3d> which it always does :/
[10:54:06] <Tom_itx> groove it, paint it, skin cut the top
[10:55:42] <pcw_home> sounds like some weird chant
[10:55:54] <Tom_itx> rinse and repeat
[11:00:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy_cnc_router_table_machines/152794-mdf_madness-17.html#post1255431
[11:01:06] <r00t4rd3d> i posted the files if anyone wants to make one
[11:02:34] <Tom_itx> if you cnc'd it, the holes will align :)
[11:02:44] <r00t4rd3d> even after sanding?
[11:02:45] <Tom_itx> cut em with the .125 em
[11:02:50] <Tom_itx> are they gonna move?
[11:03:02] <r00t4rd3d> i played it safe
[11:03:19] <cradek> web forums that require a login to see an attachment are obnoxious
[11:03:31] <r00t4rd3d> you dont have a cnczone account?
[11:04:46] <r00t4rd3d> you could probably be semi famous and get pms all day
[11:04:52] <cradek> ugh
[11:04:57] <L84Supper> what if you're a commie/terrorist/priest trying to steal the attachment?
[11:07:25] <r00t4rd3d> cradek, have you viewed linuxcnc forums lately? I think they require that also.
[11:07:59] <cradek> yes, it's also obnoxious there :-)
[11:08:03] <r00t4rd3d> i had to give blood to register
[11:08:30] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop wanted to do a cavity search
[11:09:02] <L84Supper> dental or other?
[11:09:40] <r00t4rd3d> hi im r00t4rd3d
[11:11:19] <r00t4rd3d> lets have a contest
[11:11:29] <r00t4rd3d> see who can make the best wooden mallet
[11:11:53] <L84Supper> can you make it from aluminum?
[11:11:58] <r00t4rd3d> something to do on the forums other then boring
[11:12:07] <r00t4rd3d> ok mallet
[11:12:13] <r00t4rd3d> from any material
[11:12:31] <r00t4rd3d> everyone needs a hammer
[11:15:28] <r00t4rd3d> i rarely see anything on linuxcnc forums about stuff people actually make with it
[11:16:19] <r00t4rd3d> its all nerd talk
[11:19:00] <skunkworks> like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmZrDrt6pQ
[11:19:34] <r00t4rd3d> omg i lasted about 15 seconds
[11:21:51] <r00t4rd3d> i can only understand every 3rd word
[11:22:30] <pcw_home> Thats because you can't understand English :-)
[11:22:50] <r00t4rd3d> he needs to pull the tea bag out his mouth
[11:23:17] <ReadError> y u no like andy?
[11:23:30] <r00t4rd3d> i do
[11:23:39] <r00t4rd3d> his accent kills me though
[11:23:53] <r00t4rd3d> and he talks at lightening speed
[11:24:47] <r00t4rd3d> i could never drink beer with him
[11:31:07] <L84Supper> hhmm, CNCZone doesn't have a forum for additive manufacturing/3D printers
[11:31:42] <L84Supper> sorry, they do, way at the bottom
[11:34:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forum.php#a-3d_printers
[11:35:42] <r00t4rd3d> not very popular though
[11:37:56] <L84Supper> well most DIYers are stuck on the glorified glue guns in reprap
[11:39:04] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[11:40:29] <tjtr33> "ggg" good one
[11:40:46] <L84Supper> they should call it GGG vs FFF
[11:46:17] <tjtr33> my 3ph BLDC motors only have UVW (no halls) and a serial encoder
http://imagebin.org/252537.
[11:46:24] <tjtr33> if i manage to decode the serial encoder data, how do i use the 3ph motor w/o halls?
[11:46:25] <tjtr33> What products are available past the Mesa 5i2x plus hal components?
[11:50:14] <skunkworks> uvw usually means halls...
[11:50:39] <pcw_home> encoder is absolute so Halls are not needed
[11:52:31] <tjtr33> thx skunk, but it really doesnt have halls. 4 wires, u v w and gnd
[11:53:19] <tjtr33> pcw_home how would i use it once i decode the encoder problem? 7i39? what are the options?
[11:53:41] <tjtr33> i scoped the encoder output and see pkts every 28uS
[11:53:49] <pcw_home> Do you have voltage/current specs for the motors
[11:54:07] <tjtr33> 50w *=(yes tiny ) 282-325V
[11:54:31] <pcw_home> thats a pain
[11:54:40] <tjtr33> ? 1/8 amp :)
[11:55:06] <pcw_home> probably 1/2 A peak
[11:55:18] <tjtr33> thats the end effector wrist motor, but none are > 200W
[11:59:13] <tjtr33> is there a linuxcnc config for hall-less BLDC's using absolute encoders? ( and do i get to pick the color ? :)
[11:59:25] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:03:53] <pcw_home> Yes BLDC works with absolute encoders
[12:04:17] <pcw_home> (assuming theres a way to read yours)
[12:07:08] <tjtr33> i havent hooked the encoder output to a serial terminal yet, like putty or... but the scope shows a packet every 28uS
[12:07:55] <tjtr33> (now looking for 3ph bridges that could be controlled by 5i2x pwm )
[12:09:11] <tjtr33> is 7i39 a possiblitlity? ( ignore halls connections )
[12:09:27] <pcw_home> not for 320V motors
[12:10:32] <tjtr33> :( the encoder is actually an add on, could i put halls back there? they just need to be timed to rotor position, not actually inside motor?
[12:11:12] <pcw_home> you can get the bare bridge cheaply but getting 300V stuff to not explode the first time is interesting
[12:12:13] <tjtr33> what part explodes first? hope its the cheap bit
[12:12:34] <pcw_home> If the encoder is a 17 bit absolute encoder, you definately dont want to lose it
[12:12:55] <Loetmichel> tjtr33: murphy says: the expensivest part first
[12:13:22] <Loetmichel> "the FET saves the fuse by burning faster than it"
[12:13:32] <tjtr33> ok, so i keep the 320V motor and the 17bit encoder, i'm back to what bits to buy
[12:13:53] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, :) yep, and theres proof to that law
[12:14:13] <pcw_home> FNB41060 is more than enough as a 3 phase bridge (5A @100C case temp)
[12:17:19] <tjtr33> ! thx 600V 10A nice pkg, 13$ DK
[12:18:57] <tjtr33> ah, dont google 3 phase bridge, google 3 phase inverter :)
[12:21:36] <Loetmichel> *hrhr, strike* last week i broke the next to last 2mm 2 flute TC mill bit... today there was a mail from sorotec "your order has been sent today" ... "hmm, i ordered nothing?" ... called tha supplier: "yes, thats the delayed delivery from last month."
[12:22:17] <Loetmichel> ... i just was in the process to order some 2mm bits ... no i get 6 tha ih have already payed and forgotten ;-)
[12:24:18] <IchGuckLive> ha on 123 i got 25 for 22 euros
[12:24:43] <IchGuckLive> they also got 50 in stock 0.8-2.4
[12:26:47] <L84Supper> paid $6 for a 10-32 tap earlier at Home Depot, that thing better be made of titanium
[12:27:08] <ReadError> lowes doesnt even sell taps anymore :(
[12:27:27] <L84Supper> home depot only carried about 10 sizes
[12:27:50] <L84Supper> shrink wrapped with a drill bit
[12:28:12] <L84Supper> Menards still carries a ton
[12:28:48] <andypugh> 10 sizes is M2 to M18, covers most requirements :-)
[12:29:44] <skunkworks> andypugh, where you thinking of doing gears first? (for your x axis drive)
[12:30:13] <andypugh> No, I always planned on belts.
[12:30:37] <andypugh> And I planned on buying the pulleys.
[12:31:03] <andypugh> Hmm, I could make a belt mould couldn't ?
[12:31:53] <skunkworks> andypugh, don't go overbaord.. ;)
[12:32:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://blog.r6velocity.com/?x=entry:entry130331-220708
[12:32:33] <r00t4rd3d> check out that indexer
[12:33:09] <skunkworks> andypugh, thought this was related :)
https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5824161311834980434?banner=pwa
[12:34:42] <L84Supper> http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/tap-die/21-piece-carbon-steel-sae-tap-and-die-set-69679.html
[12:34:57] <L84Supper> only $9 for a whole set of cheap taps and dies
[12:36:03] <AR_> they'd probably all snap on the first twist
[12:36:18] <L84Supper> ok for aluminum
[12:36:19] <ReadError> i just buy them as needed from mcmaster
[12:36:26] <ReadError> gotta love overnight shipping ;)
[12:36:50] <AR_> aluminum can be harder to tap than steel
[12:36:51] <AR_> galling
[12:37:00] <L84Supper> they only break 1/2 way in, on the last hole for the night
[12:37:07] <AR_> lol
[12:37:08] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel:
http://stores.ebay.de/gabysvhmshop2012?_rdc=1
[12:37:09] <AR_> true
[12:37:18] <L84Supper> so it's more likely operator error
[12:37:47] <AR_> i used to break taps all the time in aluminum
[12:37:49] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: so what?
[12:38:04] <AR_> till i realized you need to break the chip every 1/4 turn
[12:38:05] <Loetmichel> i like to order where i know which quality i get
[12:38:14] <Loetmichel> -> sorotec.de
[12:38:26] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[12:39:09] <andypugh> AR_: I tap with a cordless drill. Never chip-break in Alu. But I buy good taps.
[12:39:32] <AR_> :D
[12:40:50] <AR_> well i guess if you drill it out well enough
[12:41:01] <andypugh> skunkworks: Those gears are related, they drive the resolver which gives the spindle feedback. Two ratios for each of the possible vertical head ratios.
[12:41:23] <Loetmichel> AR_: tahts sounds like my colleague ages ago in apprenticeship: co: tapping a m12 dead end hole... *turn**turn**turn**turn**turn* me: "sy, wont you try to break the chi..." *KNACK*" ... nevermind!"
[12:41:37] <AR_> LOL
[12:41:39] <AR_> yup
[12:41:41] <Loetmichel> he was tapping with a normal hand tool
[12:41:48] <AR_> yup
[12:43:15] <Loetmichel> ... this guy had the looks of a grizzly... and the mind of a 4 year old ;-)
[12:44:16] <andypugh> AR_: I only ever use the correct tapping size.
[12:45:40] <andypugh> You don't need many taps if you work in metric, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12. I added a 2mm for mounting optos. Tapping size for M6 is 5mm, so that's only 6 special tapping drills.
[12:47:30] <L84Supper> we had to had tap the center of some t-slot, all M8, I need to make a fixture to rigid tap long lengths
[12:49:04] <tjtr33> my serial data is 'differential' ( SD+ SD- ), and dont have any RS485 here.
[12:49:09] <tjtr33> do i feed SD+ SD- to an opamp?, then connect opamps output to a serial port's Rx and opamps gnd to serial gnd?
[12:51:54] <L84Supper> ReadError:
http://www.lowes.com/Tools/Hand-Tools/Tap-Die-Sets/_/N-1z0ykbi/pl#! maybe they are just online now
[12:52:26] <ReadError> yea seems that way
[12:52:29] <ReadError> still dumb ;(
[12:52:31] <tjtr33> haha i knew about MAX232's , didnt know there were MAX485's
[12:52:56] <L84Supper> their website had a glitch a few months ago, threaded rods were going for 2 cents on the dollar if you ordered on the website
[13:06:09] <L84Supper> anyone know of a sheet material similar to nitrocellulose (flash) paper that either combusts rapidly or is quickly (few seconds) dissolved in water?
[13:10:54] <pcw_home> tjtr33: if is input only, you use a differential receiver (26LS32 or CMOS equiv)
[13:11:06] <pcw_home> s/is/its/
[13:12:41] <pcw_home> Theres that edible rice paper that Botan Ami candies are wrapped in
[13:13:16] <tjtr33> pcw_home thx again
[13:13:43] <L84Supper> heh, I knew those Botan candies were good for something :)
[13:13:53] <tjtr33> and i think Jymmmmmmm was looking for flash paper a while back
[13:15:48] <Jymmm> Nitrocellious
[13:16:00] <Jymmm> but too chickenshit to make it =)
[13:19:51] <pcw_home> take some smokeless powder dissolve in acetone. spread thin on polyethylene sheet, let dry Voila
[13:20:53] <Jymmm> nitricacid
[13:21:13] <L84Supper> edible would also work, but I'm not sure how long you can keep hungry critters in a box with a remote latch on the door
[13:21:48] <pcw_home> no need for chemistry, its already made for you in smokeless powder
[13:22:17] <Jymmm> Hmmm, why PE ?
[13:22:34] <pcw_home> so it does not stick
[13:22:49] <Jymmm> ahhhh
[13:23:20] <L84Supper> have to reup my firearms license, then again I can pay 25x more and get it through Aldrich
[13:23:21] <Jymmm> so wheres the organic matter?
[13:25:05] <pcw_home> Smokeless powder is a mix of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine (and graphite and other additives)
[13:25:07] <pcw_home> or at least used to be
[13:25:37] <pcw_home> ping pong balls are ofter nitrocellulose
[13:25:49] <Jymmm> OH, so what does disolving in acetone do for me?
[13:26:04] <L84Supper> https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?dept=Reloading&dept2=SMOKELESS%20POWDER
[13:26:10] <Jymmm> Yeah, but expensive =)
[13:26:21] <pcw_home> allows you to reform it into "paper"
[13:26:25] <IchGuckLive> im off by
[13:26:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: gotcha =)
[13:26:52] <L84Supper> turns it into a liquid that can be spread and let to evaporate leaving a film or sheet
[13:27:54] <jdh> I've got 5 or 6 lbs in the garage
[13:30:10] <pcw_home> When I was a kid you could get really cheap BE Hodgdon surplus powders
[13:30:19] <tjtr33> L84Supper, flash paper and dissolving paper at a really fun place up on Lincoln Ave.
http://www.magicinc.net
[13:30:41] <jdh> smokeless powder isn't much fun other than in bullets
[13:31:11] <pcw_home> Its a great binder for 2 component rocket fuels
[13:31:12] <L84Supper> tjtr33: that's where I used to buy it when i was a kid
[13:31:50] <jdh> I use Hogdon TiteGroup(tm) for .40s&w
[13:32:45] <L84Supper> looking at different methods to produce electronics that literally disappear
[13:33:13] <jdh> igniter + magnesium + thermite
[13:33:40] <L84Supper> quietly and silently, without much smoke
[13:33:43] <tjtr33> like Atari? & C64 ?
[13:34:08] <L84Supper> make it look like an iphone, brilliant!
[13:34:56] <L84Supper> but hiding in plain site isn't an option
[13:35:13] <pcw_home> some kind of fiber (oat bran) reinforced sugar
[13:36:13] <L84Supper> yeah, but it needs to disappear quickly, few seconds
[13:37:07] <L84Supper> bacteria plus a sugar would work if you had a few hours or days
[13:37:44] <L84Supper> Phosphorus pentoxide
[13:38:09] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPcfYQnmVw
[13:38:10] <Tecan> (ccPcfYQnmVw) "Reaction of phosphorus pentoxide with Water experiment No. 12" by "Facer91" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:00:38
[13:38:59] <pcw_home> how about just swelling into a mess: Sodium polyacrylate
[13:43:01] <L84Supper> we can print active circuits using fluids that won't leave much residue, it's the PCB that is a challenge and takes up the most volume
[13:43:17] <pcw_home> with phosphorus pentoxide you get phosphoric acid so with a little flavoring you get a Coke when you dissolve your IPhone
[13:45:10] <L84Supper> also a power source
[13:50:12] <L84Supper> the battery seems like the toughest challenge
[13:52:49] <L84Supper> how do you turn a cockroach into a battery?
[13:56:27] <JT-Shop> solidworks
[13:57:11] <jdh> do you have a good model for the cockroach?
[13:57:32] <ReadError> dissolve your iphone?
[13:57:34] <ReadError> onoes
[14:01:58] <JT-Shop> I had one but it got squashed
[14:45:38] <tjtr33> if i add hall sensors to my BLDC motors, will that make interfacing easier?
[14:45:40] <tjtr33> i see web hacks externally adding Halls to electric airplane motors.
[14:46:16] <tjtr33> is placement critical? thinking of a clamping sleeve on round body
[14:47:04] <pcw_home> Not if you get the encoder working (an absolute encoder is better in every way than the Halls)
[14:47:52] <tjtr33> ok, then thats where the effort goes, thx
[14:48:13] <pcw_home> (well the Halls _are_ an absolute encoder but with only 60 degree resolution)
[14:54:15] <Connor> Hey, what's a easy way to max linuxcnc startup maximized (2.6)
[14:54:58] <jdh> make a .pif!
[14:55:49] <Connor> funny
[14:57:42] <alex_joni> Connor: check the wiki
[15:02:17] <andypugh> pcw_home: I think halls give 20 degree resolution on a 6-pole motor. With a 5mm pitch screw that's .3mm resolution. I am sure there are applications where that it entirely fine.
[15:03:52] <PCW_> yeah should have said 60 _electrical_ degrees
[15:06:56] <PCW_> Ive seen systems with quite crude encoders with gear reduction drives (5000 RPM motor and ~100 count encoder)
[15:09:00] <andypugh> I keep meaning to put velocity output and interpolated position into bldc. I reckon that the halls on my 12-pole washing-machine motor would give perfectly adequate resolution for threading.
[15:16:42] <andypugh> As the X on my mill is still manual, I was idly wondering about wrapping a string with a weight on the end round the shaft of a spare resolver, to give me at least a alsh0up DRO function.
[15:18:55] <t12> laser printer spinning mirror on a shaft
[15:18:59] <t12> and a liear ccd
[15:23:16] <Jymmm> I'll take one please...
http://www.flixxy.com/volkswagen-levitating-car.htm#.UVs5H6t35gY
[15:26:51] <Connor> looks like the forum is saying to use devilspie program to make it maximize..
[15:38:14] <JT-Shop> Axis?
[15:44:08] <jdh> yesterday I think
[15:44:14] <jdh> <urk>
[15:45:12] <tjtr33> Jymmm,
http://www.zaoche.cn/welcome its great to see the kids work on thier ideas, are there such competitions in USA ( notice the team names are all anglo :)
http://www.zaoche.cn/welcome
[15:46:48] <Connor> JT-Shop: jdh Huh? I miss something ?
[15:47:43] <jdh> wrong channel
[15:48:11] <JT-Shop> do you want to maximize Axis?
[15:48:19] <Connor> yes. on startup
[15:48:25] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/21-axis/320-faq
[15:48:52] <Connor> yup. that's what I found.
[15:49:10] <Connor> that the only way.. that's crazy to have to use a external program..
[15:49:11] <jdh> the .axisrc one?
[15:49:24] <Connor> I've not found the .axisrc one..
[15:49:41] <jdh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/index.php/italian/forum/10-advanced-configuration/10272-one-button-multiple-functions?limit=6&start=6#10292
[15:50:43] <JT-Shop> there is several ways in that link
[15:50:55] <Connor> okay. the .axisrc worked..
[15:50:55] <JT-Shop> are/is
[15:56:52] <Connor> okay, is there a way to make a machine come up in inches when it's setup as a metric?
[15:57:47] <Jymmm> add a second profile and name it inches?
[15:58:09] <Connor> Screws and table are all metric.
[15:58:32] <Jymmm> and?
[15:58:53] <Connor> I don't want to convert all the settings.... I just would prefer it start up in imperial.
[16:00:35] <Jymmm> And I just told you a way to do it.
[16:01:37] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you should be getting a package today
[16:02:20] <JT-Shop> USPS?
[16:02:27] <Tom_itx> yeas
[16:02:41] <JT-Shop> ok, he has not been by here yet
[16:04:03] <Connor> Jymmm: If I change LINEAR_UNITS = inch then I have to change all the values for everything in the profile..
[16:06:01] <Connor> the equivalent of doing the ! command in axis after it loads..
[16:06:35] <Tom_itx> my cad cam will post either one no matter what the model was in
[16:06:49] <Tom_itx> lcnc doesn't work that way?
[16:07:06] <Tom_itx> isn't there a gcode for units?
[16:07:40] <Connor> Tom_itx: That's not even it.. It's more about the DRO and Velocity Speed outputs in Axis..
[16:08:58] <Tom_itx> have you tried it?
[16:09:02] <Tom_itx> G20 G21
[16:13:54] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:13:57] <Tom_itx> LINEAR_UNITS = <units> - Specifies the machine units for linear axes. Possible choices are (in, inch, imperial, metric, mm). This does not affect the linear units in NC code (the G20 and G21 words do this).
[16:14:00] <Tom_itx> UNITS = INCH - If specified, this setting overrides the related [TRAJ] UNITS setting. (e.g., [TRAJ]LINEAR_UNITS if the TYPE of this axis is LINEAR, [TRAJ]ANGULAR_UNITS if the TYPE of this axis is ANGULAR)
[16:17:31] <Connor> Isnt' units for each axis?
[16:18:05] <Tom_itx> yes
[16:21:41] <JT-Shop> Display Inches - Set the AXIS display scaling for inches.
[16:34:52] <Connor> JT-Shop: Yea. that's the comment line for the command.. but, doesn't tell me how to make it default to one or the other..
[16:36:26] <Connor> I.E. I want to leave the machine units in metric.. just have Axis come up defaulted in Inches.
[16:37:07] <JT-Shop> Axis remembers your menu choice
[16:38:08] <Connor> Umm.. since when.. and it doesn't appear to.. I loaded it up.. changed it to inches.. closed brought it back up and was back were it was first time I launched it.
[16:41:03] <JT-Shop> last time I tried it, it worked
[16:44:56] <Connor> I just tested it both in the SIM and on my router machine.. nope.. doesn't preserve the axis units view..
[16:48:47] <JT-Shop> I just tested sim and it doesn't work either...
[16:48:56] <JT-Shop> now how did I make that work once???
[16:50:47] <Connor> It's the stupidest thing... no way to default the DRO to a specific unit.. it just defaults the the machine unit.. I think I hacked Axis once...
[16:52:24] <skunkworks> can't you edit the ini and set the RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE and add g20 or g21?
[16:53:13] <cradek> g20/g21 have nothing to do with the dro
[16:53:19] <skunkworks> oh
[16:53:22] <JT-Shop> it doesn't seem to change the dro
[16:53:30] <cradek> it shouldn't!
[16:53:30] <skunkworks> never mind then ;)
[16:53:58] <Connor> Yea.. would need something that could execute a keyboard stroke.. or call a axis function after load.
[16:54:06] <cradek> the right fix would be to save the display preference
[16:54:18] <cradek> with some hubris you may be able to set it in your .axisrc
[16:54:21] <cradek> not sure
[17:02:02] <Connor> yea, what would you put in it for that...
[17:04:35] <cradek> I agree that is the question
[17:05:41] <Connor> vars.metric.set(1) for metric
[17:05:47] <Connor> vars.metric.set(0) for inch
[17:50:04] <andypugh> Is it normal for inductive proximity sensors to come on regardless when you tighten the locknut?
[17:50:22] <andypugh> Or do I have a bad one that I should consider replacing?
[17:50:28] <JT-Shop> like have a mind of their own?
[17:51:46] <tjtr33> like a ferrous nut close to prox?
[17:52:20] <JT-Shop> a sheilded prox?
[17:52:42] <andypugh> It's a shielded one, embedded in an axis casting. It works as expected unless I tighten the locknut.
[17:53:17] <JT-Shop> that doesn't sound good
[17:53:34] <tjtr33> if its easy to pull out, try to stress it by squeezing in hand
[17:54:19] <andypugh> I may have done a foolish thing. It's a deep hole, and I counterbored it. So tightening the locknut stretches the body a little. But I am not heaving on it like a gorilla.
[17:54:59] <andypugh> (I counterbored it as I didn't want the fun of screwing in 43 turns with a 2m cable getting tangled.
[17:55:45] <JT-Shop> aye they can't take much torque
[17:55:53] <andypugh> I will swap it tomorrow.
[17:56:16] <JT-Shop> you have the funny lockwasher in there?
[17:56:33] <JT-Shop> I almost always use one of the supplied lockwashers
[17:56:44] <andypugh> I am only trying to tighten to "thin walled brass tube won't actually rotate under the weight of the wire" torque.
[17:57:14] <andypugh> And no, I don't have the lockwasher. Not really room.
[17:57:19] <tjtr33> i used 3mm dia in a caxis, and it had a brass tube used to help distribute the sideways dog screw that held it in place ( no thread, Baumer )
[17:57:23] <JT-Shop> ok
[17:57:35] <tjtr33> they had a ceramic substrate, easy to crack
[17:57:58] <andypugh> This was a cheap one, may have left the factory cracked :-)
[18:00:24] <tjtr33> Connor, did you get the dro to startup Inch?
[18:00:32] <tjtr33> i dont even find a .axisrc on my system ( cd installed, also a rip )
[18:00:32] <tjtr33> I tried axis.tcl "set metric 0" ng
[18:00:54] <andypugh> tjtr33: You need to create the .axisrc
[18:01:08] <andypugh> It goes in your home folder
[18:01:21] <tjtr33> doh!
[18:01:54] <andypugh> Apparently the whole of LinuxCNC is internally metric, apart from the Axis UI.
[18:01:54] <tjtr33> does it need a section [units_of_measure_voodoo] ?
[18:02:29] <andypugh> I think that you just need one of those lines of Python that Connor typed.
[18:03:04] <tjtr33> ok, thx. and internal metric is a good idea, 1mm is better rez than 1 inch
[18:04:05] <andypugh> It's all in floating point, 20 digits of precision, the units are irrelevant.
[18:11:18] <tjtr33> Connor you may not like the side effects, like setting jog increment to .0001 and having to hit 25x to get dro to change 1 unit
[18:11:41] <tjtr33> ^^^ tested
[18:12:13] <tjtr33> and .axisrc deleted
[18:13:34] <Connor> tjtr33: You can specify increments in both imperial and metric.
[18:14:22] <tjtr33> cool, i didnt test much to find that bit, maybe others , anything using linear measure
[18:14:28] <L84Supper> imperial sounds a bit posh or upidy, SAE sounds more agnostic
[18:15:27] <tjtr33> SAE is masonic, secret society with high priced books explaining what should be public domain
[18:15:46] <tjtr33> ;)
[18:16:34] <L84Supper> the queens measurement
[18:20:30] <Valen> I like to call them english units, especially as the only people to use them are americans
[18:20:36] <Valen> just to irritate the americans ;->
[18:21:00] <L84Supper> http://www.microesys.com/ nice stuff and much better prices than some other popular vendors
[18:21:07] <Jymmm> Valen: Uh, you're english, we're Americans
[18:21:29] * Valen is Australian
[18:21:52] <Valen> most americans only use english units ;-> you guys are special
[18:22:02] <Jymmm> Valen: No, you're a english prisoner descendant is all
[18:22:14] <Valen> you too it could be argued
[18:22:45] <Jymmm> Nah, we kicked some English butt
[18:23:08] <L84Supper> and uhmerikans is just native American killers
[18:23:16] <andypugh> It's a temporary situation.
[18:23:38] <Valen> I'm not certain, but its possible one of my ancestors was deported for the crime of stealing a bath tub
[18:24:07] <Valen> I have this image of a dude beating feet down the street with a cast iron claw foot tub on his head
[18:24:12] <L84Supper> Valen: were they much lighter in those days?
[18:24:35] <L84Supper> of all the things to steal
[18:24:38] <Valen> much *much* heavier
[18:24:52] <tjtr33> thats how they caught him, he wasnt moving very fast
[18:26:15] <tjtr33> why are so many hi precision tools out north east coast usa? maryland to massachusets? they were good diemakers.
[18:28:24] <L84Supper> http://www.microesys.com/sites/default/files/ChipEncoder-CE300-Data-Sheet.pdf 1um 7 x 11mm encoder
[18:28:59] <tjtr33> that stuff is optical AND is tape !?
[18:29:44] <tjtr33> i gotta stop browsing, bye
[18:31:50] <Valen> L84Supper: price? price for scales?
[18:33:07] <L84Supper> Valen: scale and read head for ~$100
[18:33:58] <andypugh> L84Supper: Good luck making that 1um target...
[18:34:51] <andypugh> These are physically smaller, but don't claim the same resolutuion.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7160604/
[18:35:32] <L84Supper> how did those work out in your motor?
[18:36:25] <t12> our em's use these
[18:36:29] <t12> http://www.microesys.com/
[18:36:30] <andypugh> The bottom one works well, the top one not at all. I need to try to swap it.
[18:37:00] <andypugh> But I am not well set up for soldering surface-mount with the pads underneath,
[18:37:53] <andypugh> And I have the little blighters on both sides of the PCB.
[18:40:51] <L84Supper> the Siemens NX CAM guys offered to add any configs to their postprocessor "Postbuilder" for Linuxcnc + Mesa
[18:41:16] <andypugh> Does the "Mesa" part matter?
[18:41:39] <L84Supper> not sure how many Linuxcnc users also use NX
[18:43:20] <L84Supper> oh yeah not for LinuxCNC, i was conflating SoftDMC
[18:44:25] <andypugh> I am trying out PyCAM, it looks like it might do what I want.
[18:46:24] <JT-Shop> dxf to gcode?
[18:47:50] <andypugh> STL to G-code
[18:48:12] <L84Supper> slic3r
[18:49:12] <andypugh> L84Supper: That's for additive, not subtractive?
[18:49:40] <L84Supper> for additive
[18:50:24] <L84Supper> IIRC they were going to add support for milling
[18:50:49] <L84Supper> or maybe that was smoothieware
[18:57:23] <L84Supper> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/04/03/filastruder-3d-printing-filament-extruder-hits-130000-at-kickstarter/ another bad filament extruder
[19:07:56] <coors> hi
[19:09:32] <micges> hi
[19:09:52] <coors> how is it going?
[19:10:36] <coors> do you by any chance have a cnc and a little bit of time? :)
[19:10:49] <JT-Shop> doing good here
[19:10:57] <JT-Shop> up late micges?
[19:11:22] <coors> oh, there is still europeans up?
[19:11:22] <micges> yep, owl programming
[19:11:30] <coors> it's like 2 in the morning, isnt it?
[19:11:38] <micges> yes
[19:12:10] <coors> well, i better not bother you then
[19:12:38] <coors> i'll just wait around until someone wants to tell me a bit about their cnc machine :>
[19:12:50] <jdh> mine is green!
[19:12:55] <JT-Shop> I have two minutes what do you want to know
[19:13:02] <coors> nice :)
[19:13:19] <coors> basically I am looking for bearing blocks and acme screws
[19:13:33] <coors> but i am pretty new and don't know too well what to look for
[19:13:43] <jdh> linearmotionbearings2008 for cheap chinese ones
[19:13:49] <coors> i am thinking about dumpster cnc ones atm
[19:14:31] <coors> are those any good?
[19:14:54] <coors> i am primarily looking for people who have used them and can tell me a bit more what you can expect from them
[19:14:55] <JT-Shop> you looking to build something from scratch?
[19:14:57] <jdh> actually, I don't know if he has acme screws. His ballscrews are cheap and arguably better than acme
[19:15:12] <coors> yeah, from scratch
[19:15:13] <JT-Shop> acme is manual, ball screws are CNC
[19:15:28] <jdh> I have acme on my cnc router
[19:15:35] <coors> well, the dumpstercnc ones are acme and supposed to be popular
[19:15:40] <jdh> which kind of leads to cnc-suckage
[19:15:48] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:15:51] <coors> :)
[19:15:55] <jdh> but, they are dirt cheap.
[19:16:00] <coors> well, ballscrews can have bad backlash, too
[19:16:16] <coors> have you measured backlash on your machine by any chance?
[19:16:26] <JT-Shop> I've seen some acme with delrin preloaded nuts that have little backlash
[19:16:33] <jdh> .001" to .0025"
[19:16:37] <andypugh> Aye, I have some oversize bals on order to try to improve my Y axis.
[19:16:46] <JT-Shop> sure but ballscrews don't have the friction of the acme
[19:16:52] <jdh> acme has a lot more waste
[19:16:55] <coors> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/dumpstercnc-acme-assembly-p-36.html
[19:17:02] <andypugh> But I suspect that something has actually come loose.
[19:17:27] <JT-Shop> yuck!
[19:17:27] <coors> i am trying to get <0.001"
[19:17:40] <coors> or is that just unrealistic?
[19:17:44] <JT-Shop> yep
[19:17:44] <jdh> getting that last 0.005" would be expensive
[19:17:48] <coors> what i really wanna do is pcbs
[19:17:52] <jdh> err... last 0.0005"
[19:18:02] <L84Supper> http://buildyourcnc.com/CNCMachineMechanicalParts.aspx for slow screws these work
[19:18:12] <coors> i got around 0.004 with hardware store parts
[19:18:33] <jdh> you can make anything if you want to pay for it.
[19:18:35] <coors> but i wanted something a little better for the linear motion stuff and a new gantry probably
[19:19:00] <coors> speed should be >10ipm, so not terribly high
[19:19:06] <r00t4rd3d> I used my machine to make a wooden mallet today :D
[19:19:10] <L84Supper> the spring actually forces the plastic radially and axially into the screw as it wears
[19:19:40] <jdh> I'd prefer a pair of ball-nuts
[19:19:44] <jdh> but, for the price...
[19:19:51] <coors> yeah, that's what i am using right now
[19:19:58] <coors> two nuts spaced with a screw
[19:20:16] <coors> i'm just using plastic wing nuts
[19:20:39] <coors> basically i am looking for better ones that aren't crazy expensive
[19:20:49] <L84Supper> http://www.haydonkerk.com/LinearActuatorProducts/LeadScrewsAndNuts/Nuts/CMPSeriesNuts/tabid/255/Default.aspx or these
[19:22:01] <coors> how come those never spec backlash though?
[19:22:31] <coors> are those ones that you are using?
[19:23:07] <andypugh> Cheap ballnuts are quite cheap:
http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/63-chinese-brand-ballnuts
[19:23:13] <L84Supper> it's 0 until you've melted or worn out the compensation
[19:23:25] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/250476169366
[19:24:31] <L84Supper> in China I can get them next day, it takes me a week to get them to Chicago
[19:24:32] <coors> so 0 means actually not measurable
[19:24:39] <coors> and not something like 0.001" or so?
[19:25:09] <L84Supper> the nut has an interference fit to the screw
[19:26:01] <L84Supper> you'll probably measure the flex of the polymer vs lash when they are new
[19:26:25] <L84Supper> but again they are not for long life or high speeds
[19:27:13] <coors> so that's true for any anti backlash ballscrew i can find?
[19:27:29] <coors> so there is no real reason to buy more expensive ones except for load capacity and life?
[19:28:21] <L84Supper> ballscrews will have less drag
[19:28:47] <jdh> way less
[19:29:18] <jdh> and are prettier
[19:29:42] <jdh> and really, if you have never chased ball nut balls around a hardwood floor, it's just something you need to do once (or twice)
[19:29:51] <L84Supper> lol
[19:30:00] <coors> :)
[19:30:24] <L84Supper> so thats what the screw cover is for
[19:31:09] <coors> hmm, i guess i'll go for the chinese ones then
[19:31:18] <coors> didnt realize all those are 0 backlash actually
[19:31:27] <coors> always thought some of them were just crap
[19:31:37] <jdh> they are "0"
[19:31:58] <L84Supper> I'm building a z-axis with them this evening
[19:32:21] <coors> oh, i'd appreciate it if you let me know how that goes
[19:32:23] <L84Supper> slow speed printer, 6mm/minute
[19:32:27] <coors> and if they are any good
[19:32:49] <L84Supper> they work fine, not the first time I've used them
[19:33:02] <coors> 6mm/min is really slow :)
[19:33:32] <L84Supper> 1/2" acme 10 TPI surplus screws ~$10 ea 36"
[19:33:59] <coors> which ones are you using there?
[19:34:57] <L84Supper> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2983-50-3&catname=powerTrans
[19:35:53] <coors> oh and the cmp nut to go with it?
[19:36:43] <coors> where do you get your couplers from though?
[19:37:01] <L84Supper> http://stores.ebay.com/Precision-Tech-Machining-LLC?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[19:37:41] <L84Supper> must be sold out right now
[19:37:59] <jdh> lovejoy couplers aren't so great for backlash
[19:38:05] <coors> well, but the store itself looks interesting
[19:38:16] <coors> got a lot of stuff i need to go through now :)
[19:38:59] <L84Supper> nope, dodn't use the lovejoy
[19:39:14] <L84Supper> trying to find the coupler link
[19:39:41] <jdh> oldham style couplers from mcmaster maybe
[19:40:08] <coors> actually, that ebay store has 1/4" couplings
[19:40:30] <jdh> lovejoys
[19:40:31] <coors> i was just using freezer plastic line as coupler for that size
[19:41:22] <coors> so i think i might get away with that
[19:41:48] <coors> can you guys cut aluminum on your machines and make a small adapter plate for me?
[19:41:53] <coors> i'll compensate you of course
[19:42:31] <L84Supper> dumpster cnc has the couplers
[19:42:58] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/acme_12101.html
[19:43:32] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/couplers.html
[19:43:50] <jdh> not so friendly for any misalignment
[19:44:42] <coors> yeah those are the ones i was looking at earlier though
[19:44:58] <r00t4rd3d> i snapped a motor shaft using their coupler
[19:45:06] <r00t4rd3d> i was misaligned though
[19:45:09] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/images/acme_coupler_03.jpg
[19:45:44] <L84Supper> I was stuck in the US during Chinese new year and i found these
[19:46:21] <L84Supper> he ships real fast
[19:46:33] <r00t4rd3d> i have 3 couplers/lead nuts from them
[19:46:52] <coors> are you happy with them?
[19:46:58] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[19:47:10] <r00t4rd3d> just make sure your screws are straight
[19:47:36] <L84Supper> I've used his Anti-backlash Leadnuts on that 1/2 -10 tpi acme
[19:47:56] <coors> and you guys use just a motor coupler and a single bearing block on the opposite end?
[19:47:59] <L84Supper> speeds up to 1cm/sec but a 50% duty cycle
[19:48:02] <r00t4rd3d> i use the 3/8-16 stuff with hardware store threaded rod
[19:48:30] <L84Supper> I have with a real nice linear bearing
[19:49:05] <L84Supper> over a million cycles since Jan with no problems so far
[19:50:12] <coors> hmm, i think i might go with the acme
[19:50:38] <coors> so the drivetrain question seemes to be answered
[19:50:59] <coors> are you using supported rods as guides with that or tube?
[19:51:08] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-23/nema-23-bipolar-stepper-motor-156-oz-in-%C2%BC%E2%80%9D-dual-shaft-with-a-flat using this motor
[19:51:14] <coors> i was told that tubes are more rigid than rods, is that correct so far?
[19:51:51] <coors> i got motors and homebuilt stepper drivers, that part is easy
[19:52:01] <coors> i'm just struggling on the mechanical side of things
[19:52:14] <Valen> tube would be more rigid per weight I believe
[19:52:33] <coors> it appears that way, yet i didnt see much of it
[19:52:44] <coors> the best i saw so far was supported rods i suppose
[19:53:25] <Valen> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_is_stronger_solid_steel_rod_or_hollow_steel_pipe
[19:54:02] <coors> http://stores.ebay.com/Precision-Tech-Machining-LLC?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
[19:54:12] <coors> on this one, are the delrin nuts anti backlash?
[19:54:59] <coors> Valen: I like that explaination
[19:55:02] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ballscrews-nuts/1605-series-365mm-flanged-nut-and-screw had these been in stock I would have chosen this over the lead scews
[19:55:15] <coors> basically they say it depends, that's what i take from it :)
[19:55:33] <Valen> they don't they say for the same OD a solid is stronger
[19:55:43] <Valen> for the same weight a pipe is stronger
[19:56:16] <Valen> if you are doing a new build look at linearmotionbearings2008 on ebay
[19:56:20] <coors> yeah but which one is the one that matters more for a cnc?
[19:56:21] <L84Supper> so based on diameter the solid is more rigid than a tube
[19:56:24] <Valen> he does ballscrews super cheap
[19:56:49] <Valen> it depends on your design, if you are space limited use solid bar, if you have lots of space, use a pipe
[19:56:50] <L84Supper> the bearings are not very good
[19:57:06] <Valen> ours is built of hollows, that we are going to fill with pressurised foam ;->
[19:57:21] <L84Supper> the bearing supports have *detents* :)
[19:57:42] <L84Supper> until you wear them in
[19:57:45] <Valen> nice
[19:57:52] <Valen> anyway off to play with electronics
[19:58:15] <coors> have fun
[19:58:17] <coors> thanks!
[19:58:23] <L84Supper> coors: it depends on how much use you machine is going to see
[19:58:40] <coors> well, the one i am ripping apart was used every other day
[19:58:46] <coors> mostly hdpe and pcb stuff
[19:58:50] <L84Supper> we use air bearings for printers since they never stop moving
[19:58:59] <coors> problem was it wasn't as precise as i wanted it to be
[19:59:10] <L84Supper> a ballscew would be worn out in a few weeks
[19:59:24] <Valen> L84Supper: nice, I'm looking at air for the new mill
[19:59:31] <Valen> air and linear motors for added win
[19:59:48] <L84Supper> yeah, can't beat them for durability
[19:59:51] <Valen> adding precision is *hard* and acme threads are not the way to attain it
[20:00:24] <coors> valen: how precise is your machine?
[20:00:32] <coors> have you tried making PCBs?
[20:00:46] <coors> i guess my alternative is to buy a training emco and just go with that
[20:00:58] <Valen> http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/milled-pcb-for-spinzster.jpg
[20:00:59] <coors> but i still got hope i can hack something together that'll work for me
[20:01:10] <Valen> we use glass scales and measuure to .001mm
[20:01:53] <coors> what's the ic in the middle? tqfp-44 avr or something?
[20:01:55] <Valen> if PCB milling is your goal you need a good spindle, and decent screws
[20:02:01] <Valen> coors: 16u4
[20:02:11] <coors> ok, that's the kind of stuff i am looking for
[20:02:23] <Valen> I'd go all china, ballscrews and a spindle
[20:02:30] <Valen> you *need* RPM
[20:02:37] <coors> the spindle i got from wolfgangengineering
[20:02:44] <L84Supper> or modify and inkjet to print mask and then laser cut
[20:02:49] <L84Supper> and/an
[20:02:51] <coors> http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Spindles.php
[20:03:05] <Valen> though honestly we only use it because we are impatient
[20:03:14] <Valen> getting PCB's from china is so cheap
[20:03:25] <Valen> impatient and have a mill that will do it already lol
[20:03:28] <coors> yeah i can't wait either
[20:03:52] <coors> when i work on something i go through 5 revisions a weekend
[20:04:03] <coors> no way i wait 4 weeks to get my stuff per revision
[20:04:26] <coors> but it's usually small modular project i use at work
[20:04:38] <Valen> this is what we use on our mill
[20:04:39] <Valen> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-MILLING-AND-GRINDING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-WITH-2-2KW-INVERTER-VFD-r2-/390375010406?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5ae429f066&_uhb=1
[20:04:43] <coors> so just 4x4" boards and such
[20:04:47] <Valen> it cuts stainless steel OK
[20:05:20] <coors> wow that's cheap
[20:05:25] <coors> it includes the vfd
[20:05:32] <Valen> they are putting $150 on it in the postage
[20:05:37] <coors> whats the runout on that thing?
[20:05:44] <Valen> not a great deal
[20:05:52] <L84Supper> Runout off: less than 0.005mm
[20:05:53] <Valen> its what cut those pcbs lol
[20:05:59] <Valen> sounds about right
[20:06:07] <coors> yeah that's pretty nice
[20:06:16] <coors> for $400 i could live with that
[20:06:18] <Valen> probably double that in the real world lol
[20:06:27] <Valen> for a light mill I'd get an 800W one
[20:06:34] <coors> 10 microns is still good enough
[20:06:40] <Valen> the bearings in them (in ours) were done wrong
[20:06:47] <coors> if i can do 0603 resistors without a headache i'd be happy
[20:06:56] <Valen> they had a matched set installed pureley to take load in one direction
[20:06:59] <coors> anything smaller i can only solder when i don't get coffee :>
[20:07:00] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/new-z-axes-coupling $6
[20:07:25] <Valen> we replaced them with some VXB ones and swapped the mount around so we can do the preload by tightening the housing
[20:07:59] <coors> valen: is there any way you could cut an adapter plate from 1/4" aluminum for me?
[20:07:59] <Valen> yeah something like this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-8KW-WATER-COOLED-MILLING-AND-GRINDING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-WITH-1-5KW-INVERTER-VFD-r2-/230719532268?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35b7f4acec&_uhb=1#ht_12706wt_1399
[20:08:11] <Valen> sure, mates rates though not free
[20:08:32] <coors> yeah that's alright
[20:08:39] <coors> we should talk when you got some time
[20:08:41] <L84Supper> coors:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl4530-cnc-mold-makers-router
[20:08:59] <coors> i was looking at the 4530
[20:09:06] <coors> actually called them about it
[20:09:14] <coors> that guy is a douche in my opinion
[20:09:17] <L84Supper> he's near me
[20:09:28] <coors> oh, i'm in indiana
[20:09:31] <coors> i could drive there, too
[20:09:32] <L84Supper> he probably has them without the mach 3 controller
[20:09:34] <Valen> australia here
[20:09:37] <jdh> he doesn't communicate well
[20:09:49] <L84Supper> he's from Shanghai
[20:09:56] <coors> oh, i didnt hear that
[20:10:00] <jdh> but he seems quite bright
[20:10:04] <coors> i heard his wife had an accent
[20:10:06] <L84Supper> got his PhD from U of I
[20:10:12] <L84Supper> in ME
[20:10:22] <coors> oh, maybe i misjudged the guy
[20:10:35] <coors> i was asking if i could come over with a dial gage and check out his machine
[20:10:48] <coors> he was like "oh, i'll be out of town for a month"
[20:10:55] <coors> so i just let it go
[20:10:59] <coors> that was maybe a week ago
[20:11:05] <L84Supper> he travels to China few times a year to get parts
[20:11:21] <coors> thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense
[20:11:32] <coors> so you think he is alright and doesnt scam people?
[20:11:35] <L84Supper> he has the same problems we do
[20:11:44] <L84Supper> QC issues with Chinese parts :)
[20:12:03] <coors> hehe
[20:12:06] <coors> i can only imagine
[20:12:13] <L84Supper> I can just show up and pay him cash
[20:12:22] <coors> where are you from? chi?
[20:12:23] <jdh> I've bought things from him with no problems
[20:12:43] <L84Supper> I'm ~30 minutes from him
[20:12:46] <coors> hmm, maybe i shoudl reconsider the 4530 or the next one up
[20:13:11] <coors> i got friends living in lakeville, so i could go there on a weekend
[20:13:17] <L84Supper> he just has a warehouse full of boxes of automation parts from China
[20:13:23] <coors> doesnt look like i can make it on time during the week though
[20:13:26] <L84Supper> and one person that fills orders
[20:13:37] <coors> hmm, so that wasnt his wife?
[20:13:46] <coors> i talked to a lady on the phone first
[20:13:51] <L84Supper> his wife answers the phone
[20:13:52] <coors> and she passed me on to him
[20:14:01] <coors> ok, that's what i figured
[20:14:02] <L84Supper> she takes the phone orders
[20:14:12] <L84Supper> he will take tech questions
[20:14:28] <coors> i hope you don't mind me asking
[20:14:29] <L84Supper> and a lady in the back packs boxes
[20:14:37] <coors> you are not a student anymore, are you?
[20:14:58] <L84Supper> well, i never stop learning
[20:14:58] <coors> i'd really like to meet people locally who are into cnc
[20:15:02] <coors> :)
[20:15:07] <coors> i'm close to 30 now
[20:15:30] <coors> but if you'd wanna meet in chi some time to talk about parts and such, that'd be great
[20:15:57] <L84Supper> I'm also in China half the time
[20:15:57] <coors> anyways, i am wondering about the keiling dude now
[20:16:16] <jdh> that is the keling dood
[20:16:28] <L84Supper> I only eat and drink in the city
[20:16:38] <L84Supper> or pickup mail
[20:16:52] <coors> i guess this one would be a drink occasion :>
[20:18:14] <coors> so what does your cnc look like though?
[20:18:27] <coors> it sounds like you do metal for the most part?
[20:18:37] <L84Supper> I have to talk to him about more Linuxcnc vs mach3
[20:19:06] <coors> hmm, i just got started out with mach3
[20:19:15] <coors> but i dont think it's bad
[20:19:31] <coors> would be nicer if it was open source, but it works for me i suppose
[20:19:39] <L84Supper> I'm more on the research end, additive manufacturing, materials science, nanotech
[20:19:54] <coors> oh that's funny
[20:20:04] <coors> i'm in materials
[20:20:19] <coors> more on the physics/chemistry side though doing a lot of laser stuff
[20:20:52] <coors> basically nanoscale semiconductor materials and characterization of those
[20:20:56] <L84Supper> inks, fluids, coatings, photopymers for SLA, SLA, DLP, inkjet, micronozzle, aerosol jet etc etc
[20:21:23] <L84Supper> printed electronics
[20:21:34] <coors> so you are a little more applied and i'm way on the basic side
[20:21:48] <L84Supper> we are printing pcb's with only fluids, board + conductors
[20:21:49] <coors> but same field
[20:22:03] <L84Supper> yeah, we have to get it into production
[20:22:10] <coors> is that some electrostatic thing?
[20:22:25] <coors> i am thinking kinda like a laser printer
[20:22:40] <L84Supper> laser and jet
[20:23:13] <coors> sounds interesting, is it gonna be cheap? :)
[20:23:17] <L84Supper> the core and prepreg is a fluid
[20:23:43] <L84Supper> not just printing conductors on FR4
[20:24:01] <coors> what's a prepreg?
[20:24:18] <L84Supper> lower cost and faster than plating, etching, drilling , milling laminating....
[20:24:29] <L84Supper> the board
[20:24:48] <coors> so you expose it or do something else to harden it?
[20:25:02] <coors> it sounds a bit uncommon to me
[20:25:23] <coors> i guess big question is can you do multilayer boards cheap as well
[20:25:41] <L84Supper> multilayer is more like multiwire
[20:25:50] <L84Supper> no drilling for vias
[20:26:01] <coors> so yours is real 3D "printing"
[20:26:08] <L84Supper> so denser boards and it's faster
[20:26:21] <coors> that's cool
[20:26:31] <coors> are you a ME or EE?
[20:27:27] <L84Supper> started way back as a EE, now I actually do more chemistry than anything else :)
[20:28:01] <coors> cool, i started as a chemist and moved to physics
[20:28:14] <coors> seems to be the typical way people move though
[20:28:23] <L84Supper> all this stuff crosses over
[20:28:29] <coors> well, at least for physical chemistry
[20:28:49] <L84Supper> I have to brush up on Biology to work with the tissue printers
[20:28:52] <coors> yeah, even though physics is still superconductors and low temperature stuff
[20:28:58] <coors> at least the more traditional part
[20:29:19] <coors> well, i hope you learn bio faster than i do
[20:29:39] <coors> i am having a hard time memorizing pictures, so that is clearly not for me
[20:29:55] <L84Supper> the cnc controls are pretty straightforward, same for the mechanical/automation
[20:30:09] <L84Supper> the real work is in the materials
[20:30:17] <coors> that cheers me up a bit
[20:30:27] <coors> i am completely lost with the mechanical part here
[20:30:34] <coors> trying to figure out what that's all about
[20:30:47] <coors> chemistry/circuitry/programming is easy
[20:31:13] <coors> i know i can just etch my pcbs, but i am trying to force me to get that cnc thing done
[20:31:20] <L84Supper> the more you know the better and you also find out how much you really don't know
[20:31:21] <coors> since i am already invested into it
[20:31:36] <coors> yeah i totally agree
[20:31:54] <coors> i feel like my biggest issue is that i don't have a mill/lathe at home
[20:32:01] <coors> well, and limited money obviously
[20:32:07] <L84Supper> but it's hard to find people that can cover more than one discipline
[20:32:19] <coors> i think if i spent $5k on a cnc, i'd be a dead man
[20:32:41] <L84Supper> look for used
[20:32:58] <coors> that is used for those emco machines i mentioned
[20:33:09] <coors> but they are precise and there is nothing to worry about
[20:33:15] <L84Supper> craigslist in chicago has lots of sherline and similar machines all the time
[20:33:21] <coors> i'm just not ready to take that hit on my crappy salary
[20:33:36] <coors> i saw those, but are sherlines any good?
[20:33:44] <coors> i thought they are like those grizzly ones
[20:33:57] <coors> the best one of those appeared to be the one from littlemachineshop
[20:34:07] <coors> but even that one i'm not sure about
[20:34:24] <coors> my problem is that i don't know enough about what specs to really look for
[20:36:28] <L84Supper> hang in here and cnczone you'll find out soon enough
[20:38:09] <coors> yeah that's what i've been doing so far
[20:38:26] <coors> i think i picked up quite a bit so far
[20:38:45] <coors> at least my first cnc actually cut something
[20:38:52] <coors> so that's a pretty good start
[20:39:25] <L84Supper> http://imagebin.org/252608
[20:39:28] <coors> well, i guess i gotta troubleshoot a stepper driver thing i bought for lab
[20:39:43] <L84Supper> ^^ here's that setup with the acme
[20:39:44] <coors> got one from pololu, but i don't think it works quite right
[20:40:23] <coors> oh you use minitec or 80/20?
[20:41:07] <L84Supper> those were 80/20 since it was around xmas and Steiner had it in stock same day in 4m lengths
[20:41:08] <coors> i was thinking about that
[20:41:19] <coors> you like em?
[20:41:34] <coors> i am just using aluminum squares from the hardware store right now
[20:41:39] <L84Supper> not pretty but they work
[20:41:44] <coors> that's why i need a new gantry i think
[20:41:55] <coors> it's got too much twisting action to it
[20:42:37] <coors> your "gantry" has 4 screws to it doesnt it?
[20:43:14] <coors> just a 1/2" aluminum plate there isn't it?
[20:43:22] <coors> or maybe even 1/4"
[20:43:31] <L84Supper> 3/8 6061
[20:43:36] <coors> i need to find a mill to make those
[20:43:39] <L84Supper> 3/8 x 4"
[20:44:07] <coors> hehe, right in the middle
[20:44:43] <coors> i think i can get scrap aluminum cheap, just gotta find a mill i can use
[20:44:49] <L84Supper> ordered everything the same day
[20:45:00] <coors> oh, you get those cut already?
[20:45:06] <L84Supper> the aluminum was from metal Superstores
[20:45:07] <coors> speedymetals or where from?
[20:45:31] <L84Supper> well in lengths, then I finish them on a mill
[20:46:16] <L84Supper> still the nice thing about Chicago, i can drive in a circle and pick most parts up the same day
[20:46:20] <coors> that's what i figured
[20:46:41] <coors> i need to ask you about places to go soon
[20:46:52] <L84Supper> metal, t-slot, automation, power supply ....
[20:47:17] <coors> oh, there is a store in bolingbrook
[20:47:23] <coors> i've been to that ikea
[20:47:26] <coors> :)
[20:47:45] <L84Supper> Addison might be the closest one to the city
[20:47:55] <coors> i guess i need to go on a shopping spree soon
[20:48:10] <coors> 85.808 Bridgeview 9012 S. Thomas Illinois (708) 599-8605 bridgeview@metalsupermarkets.com
[20:48:11] <coors> 95.247 Villa Park 1187 N. Ellsworth Ave Illinois 630-516-0537 villapark@metalsupermarkets.com
[20:48:11] <coors> 99.690 Bolingbrook 999 Remington Blvd., Unit C Illinois 630-866-4200 bolingbrook@metalsupermarkets.com
[20:48:11] <coors> 100.644 Waukegan 2901 North Delany Illinois (847) 599-1800 msmwkgnil@att.net
[20:48:18] <coors> those are the 4 it found
[20:48:26] <coors> which one is addison?
[20:48:46] <L84Supper> there are still a few mills in the city if you want full plates or full lengths of shapes
[20:49:01] <coors> so they cut em to size and drill holes for you?
[20:49:11] <L84Supper> sorry, Villa park, next door
[20:49:36] <L84Supper> they cut to length the same day, usually withing 2-3 hours
[20:49:53] <L84Supper> machining.... you're on your own
[20:50:00] <coors> bolingbrook is closer to me though
[20:50:06] <coors> i'm coming from the southwest
[20:50:18] <coors> yeah, i'll have to fix that
[20:50:26] <L84Supper> they only guarantee 1/16" accuracy on cuts
[20:50:40] <coors> problem is that i am not sure i wanna buy one of those $700 mills to get it done
[20:51:01] <L84Supper> so i just order what will fit in/on the truck
[20:51:13] <coors> so you buy it slightly larges and square everything yourself?
[20:51:40] <L84Supper> yeah
[20:51:44] <coors> are you using a mill at your company or did you get one yourself?
[20:51:58] <L84Supper> same thing
[20:52:07] <coors> i coudl use one at the university, but i can only get on it during work hours
[20:52:17] <coors> and that usually makes my boss quite unhappy
[20:52:22] <coors> so i gotta figure something out
[20:52:39] <L84Supper> I live in an underground bunker under a hollow tree in the forest
[20:53:12] <coors> hehe, so you are working from home then?
[20:53:37] <L84Supper> I home from work
[20:53:50] <coors> i guess my issue is all that liability stuff at the university
[20:54:01] <coors> if i make things for work, everything is cool
[20:54:20] <coors> but if i don't, i can't use the machines
[20:54:37] <L84Supper> just look like it's for work
[20:55:11] <coors> yeah i'll figure somthing out
[20:55:33] <coors> the sad part is that there is industrial size cnc mills sitting around, but you can't use them unless you are staff
[20:56:16] <coors> i am thinking there is a way to have them make me a gantry "for work"
[20:56:38] <coors> are you cutting your parts manually or on a cnc?
[20:57:08] <L84Supper> both, we have a complete lab/shop
[20:57:48] <coors> hmm, do you think i could pay you to make a few things for me?
[20:58:00] <coors> or is there also some kind of policy that doesnt allow that?
[20:58:04] <L84Supper> don't have the time
[20:58:26] <coors> yeah, i should try cnczone and see if i get lucky there
[20:58:33] <coors> i'd just prefer something locally
[20:58:52] <coors> there is no hackerspace/common machining area in chi is it?
[20:58:57] <L84Supper> setting up a new factory in china as well
[20:59:17] <L84Supper> there is
[20:59:26] <L84Supper> pumpingstationone
[20:59:36] <coors> oh, i've heard that name before
[20:59:36] <L84Supper> they have a channel here on IRC
[20:59:45] <coors> do you happen to know what it is?
[20:59:50] <L84Supper> they are located on the north side
[21:00:11] <L84Supper> #pumpingstationone
[21:00:14] <coors> that might be just the place to go for me
[21:00:21] <L84Supper> Elsto and Addison
[21:00:26] <L84Supper> Elston
[21:00:43] <L84Supper> they have a few small mills and a lathe
[21:00:44] <coors> oh sweet
[21:00:52] <L84Supper> just getting their SEM working
[21:00:56] <coors> i guess i gotta spend a few weekends there
[21:01:01] <coors> haha
[21:01:06] <coors> i suppose i could help them
[21:01:08] <L84Supper> $70 a moth
[21:01:10] <coors> SEM/TEM
[21:01:40] <L84Supper> http://pumpingstationone.org/
[21:02:35] <L84Supper> they has a mig and a tig, lots of saws, building a smt pick-n-place robot as well
[21:05:21] <coors> oh that sounds interesting
[21:05:26] <coors> i am contacting them right now
[21:05:40] <coors> maybe i can get in and that'll solve most of my problems in one shot
[21:05:44] <L84Supper> tonight is open house
[21:05:54] <L84Supper> most are open on Tuesdays
[21:06:17] <L84Supper> yeah Tuesdays at 8
[21:06:28] <L84Supper> they are probably in IRC now
[21:06:46] <coors> yeah they are
[21:07:03] <coors> i am wondering if i can make tuesdays actually
[21:07:11] <coors> but i get off work around 7
[21:07:20] <coors> so i hope their meeting go for a while
[21:07:24] <L84Supper> it goes late
[21:07:36] <L84Supper> open till 11 at least
[21:07:42] <L84Supper> just hang out
[21:07:54] <L84Supper> might be 70 people this time of year
[21:10:34] <coors> i like what i see
[21:10:40] <coors> thanks so much for pointing that out
[21:10:56] <L84Supper> no problem, back to work here
[21:11:05] <coors> thanks a lot
[21:11:09] <coors> catch you later
[21:28:13] <r00t4rd3d> work lol
[21:28:31] <coors> ?
[21:37:11] <coors> so they usually aren't quite as weird?
[21:37:36] <coors> i get the feeling they might just not want any new people
[21:38:58] <L84Supper> they are an odd bunch, easily threatened
[21:39:12] <coors> oh, did i do something wrong there?
[21:39:28] <coors> i was just trying to figure out how they work
[21:39:33] <L84Supper> a few post docs, mostly just hacker types
[21:39:46] <L84Supper> mostly 30 and under
[21:39:55] <coors> i appreciate you being so nice
[21:40:08] <coors> is rhys one of their main guys though?
[21:40:11] <L84Supper> now you know why i left
[21:40:16] <L84Supper> yeah
[21:40:17] <Connor> someone have any code for gladevcp to handle toggle buttons so you can group them ?
[21:40:36] <coors> connor: i don't, sorry
[21:40:51] <coors> oh, things start to make a lot more sense to me now
[21:41:15] <L84Supper> mostly software and crafts types
[21:41:17] <coors> well, i'd go out of my way to have a good time and learn things for sure
[21:41:34] <coors> but that encounter was rather weird to be honest
[21:41:54] <L84Supper> and the kids that usually got stuffed in lockers
[21:42:22] <coors> oh well, i was more stuffing than being stuffed -.-
[21:42:28] <coors> but i guess i switched sides
[21:42:36] <L84Supper> my visit there was odd
[21:42:49] <coors> do you mind telling a bit more?
[21:43:04] <coors> i mean i would pay a monthly membership fee just to go once
[21:43:24] <coors> and i might as well go to fort wayne instead which seems to be older folks 50+
[21:43:40] <coors> but there i'd have no place to crash on weekends
[21:43:54] <L84Supper> they asked me what i wanted to build and why i was there, I said that I already have a lab and i was just in search of intelligent life
[21:44:34] <L84Supper> but hardly anyone know how to machine
[21:44:41] <coors> that's quite direct, but i think what we are looking for lines up pretty well
[21:44:47] <L84Supper> so that would be free most of the time
[21:45:22] <coors> so what do they do? mostly artsy thing like led clothes and such?
[21:45:34] <L84Supper> check out the website
[21:45:50] <coors> yeah i saw some conductive thread things
[21:45:56] <L84Supper> the beer project is very popular
[21:46:21] <L84Supper> most of the complex things are by one member
[21:46:27] <L84Supper> he's on the board
[21:46:50] <coors> is that pdb?
[21:47:10] <L84Supper> pdish
[21:47:33] <coors> is that all the nerp things?
[21:47:38] <coors> those look most interesting to me
[21:47:43] <L84Supper> Jordan developed an open source silver conductive ink
[21:47:52] <coors> but i can't quite wrap my head around the structure
[21:47:57] <L84Supper> he left, he used to be with the U of I
[21:48:20] <coors> that's the one west of the loop, isnt it?
[21:48:33] <coors> oh wait, that's uic
[21:48:40] <L84Supper> one of the founders is a Chemist but now he's learning to code
[21:48:41] <coors> or is that the same place?
[21:48:55] <L84Supper> yeah same school, different locations
[21:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ihNGYss.jpg
[21:49:04] <r00t4rd3d> china
[21:49:13] <coors> oh i see, i've been to the loop location then
[21:49:24] <L84Supper> U of I in down in Champagne
[21:49:45] <coors> uiuc?
[21:50:17] <coors> they got a lot of stuff that's similar to what i do
[21:50:32] <L84Supper> there's also a hackerspace in Milwaukee and Madison
[21:50:32] <coors> i see, all of this is not far from my "network"
[21:50:41] <coors> yeah, that's too far up
[21:50:49] <coors> even though i got a friend at madison
[21:51:00] <L84Supper> amtrack to Milw
[21:51:01] <coors> but there is no way i can go there every weekend
[21:51:10] <L84Supper> tough commute
[21:51:15] <coors> not just time, but also money
[21:51:28] <coors> 4h + $40 round trip at least
[21:51:47] <coors> that's like $250 a month without a place to stay overnight
[21:51:59] <coors> so chicago/fort wayne is probably what i can do
[21:53:16] <coors> oh well, i am not sure what to do
[21:53:27] <coors> anybody at ps1 you would recommend talking to?
[22:00:27] <L84Supper> Toba or pdish
[22:00:33] <L84Supper> both aren't on now
[22:01:24] <L84Supper> they were going to convert a mill to mach3
[22:01:45] <L84Supper> I'm not sure what they have against Linuxcnc
[22:01:56] <jdh> going from iron and steel to windows?
[22:02:53] <L84Supper> http://pumpingstationone.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/gantry-2-640.jpg
[22:03:14] <L84Supper> their pick n place isn't running Linuxcnc either
[22:04:04] <L84Supper> Boardforge
[22:04:09] <jdh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
[22:04:17] <jdh> looks like there are several near chi
[22:04:46] <coors> yeah, the closest one to me are fort wayne, goshen and chi
[22:04:54] <coors> i gotta take off for a bit
[22:05:02] <coors> but i'll be back in a while
[22:05:10] <coors> see you guys in a bit
[22:05:23] <L84Supper> http://boardforge.com/team/
[22:05:38] <L84Supper> so a project from scratch vs build on EMC again
[22:06:49] <L84Supper> another atmel cnc controller project
[22:06:53] <jdh> heh
[22:07:19] <L84Supper> reprap AVR stuff
[22:10:55] <bzzzz> what's wrong with uc cnc controller projects?
[22:11:27] <jdh> nothing
[22:12:53] <L84Supper> they just tend to poorly reinvent the wheel
[22:13:09] <L84Supper> not that there's anything wrong with that
[22:13:10] <bzzzz> can you expound on that?
[22:13:28] <bzzzz> a bit too lazy to google around for existing projects
[22:13:50] <L84Supper> ever see the code behind reprap?
[22:14:58] <jdh> uC is limited... if you are strictly bound by size and cost, you have to deal with the limitations
[22:15:13] <bzzzz> well leave it for the simple hard realtime things, obviously
[22:15:30] <jdh> so, just offload the RT stuff to the uC
[22:15:40] <L84Supper> now there are reprap control boards that have 32b ARM controllers that cost as much as an old PC + mesa
[22:15:45] <jdh> which has its own problems
[22:16:16] <bzzzz> last time i checked, which was a few years back, mesa goes for 100+
[22:16:31] <L84Supper> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard
[22:17:02] <bzzzz> oh wow, looks just like that pic32mx sk
[22:17:07] <L84Supper> and you still need a PC for CAM
[22:17:12] <jdh> if you can do it with a uC, you most likely don't need mesa HW, it just makes it nicer.
[22:17:19] <bzzzz> yeah, exactly
[22:18:46] <L84Supper> https://0xfb.com/shop.html
[22:18:50] <bzzzz> the 1769 is nice as hell on the dtasheet but i could run it under a debugger last time
[22:19:59] <bzzzz> L84Supper: the smoothie is 140, isn't that still cheaper than a mesa?
[22:20:46] <L84Supper> it dropped to $140, thats more like it, it was ~$200
[22:21:00] <L84Supper> it could be ~$60
[22:21:10] <jdh> my router pc cost $140
[22:21:22] <L84Supper> I need to float those schematics around china
[22:21:28] <jdh> dual core atom
[22:22:29] <L84Supper> mini-itx AMD or Atom boards are as low as $50, the new mesa PCIe fpga board is ~$60
[22:22:55] <L84Supper> then you just need the IO
[22:24:06] <bzzzz> jesus h, 168 euros
[22:24:35] <bzzzz> in any case, i'm not sure how easy it woul be to port emc to run bare metal
[22:24:44] <bzzzz> i've been out of the loop for a while
[22:25:29] <L84Supper> it runs on arm9 and the RPi
[22:26:08] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ls5ta7eg8
[22:26:23] <bzzzz> got a text link? i cn't watch flvs
[22:26:34] <L84Supper> also the Beaglebone
[22:28:09] <bzzzz> Short answer is no, the main thrust of LinuxCNC is still running NC machines on inexpensive computers, rather than trying to create embedded systems or find a way of using restricted low power boards.
[22:28:49] <L84Supper> also
http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/
[22:29:14] <L84Supper> on an ARM920T CPU running at 400 MHz
[22:30:26] <bzzzz> that's a microprocessor, not a microcontroller
[22:30:50] <L84Supper> potato potato
[22:31:06] <L84Supper> where do you draw the line, lack of MMU?
[22:31:06] <bzzzz> the difference is that with a uc, you coul use a hardware timer to generate your ticks
[22:31:25] <bzzzz> instead of running into realtime delay errors or whatnot
[22:31:35] <bzzzz> uc is way more deterministic
[22:31:48] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157324
[22:31:59] <L84Supper> $54.99
[22:32:04] <bzzzz> meh
[22:32:11] <bzzzz> see above
[22:32:34] <bzzzz> the impetus is to avoid a uprocessor
[22:32:37] <L84Supper> 4us latency jitter for $55
[22:32:57] <L84Supper> and a GPU to run the UI
[22:33:11] <bzzzz> haha, that's funny
[22:33:17] <bzzzz> the gpu just accelerates rendering
[22:33:26] <L84Supper> so an FPGA would be best
[22:33:38] <bzzzz> what would be cool is to use the rpi's gpu for motion control calcs
[22:34:31] <L84Supper> one big state machine
[22:34:53] <bzzzz> yeah, and state machines are filled with what?
[22:34:56] <L84Supper> software just gets in the way
[22:35:03] <bzzzz> conditionals
[22:35:28] <bzzzz> iirc, fpgas are terribad for conditionals, just like gpus
[22:35:49] <L84Supper> your just a lazy hardware engineer
[22:35:54] <bzzzz> and ucs hve gotten so efficient that they can handle stepgen on their own
[22:36:08] <bzzzz> so i really don't know if fpgas have a plce in the motion control world
[22:36:08] <L84Supper> you use software as a crutch
[22:36:14] <bzzzz> hah
[22:36:26] <bzzzz> let's compile gcc into a netlist, right?
[22:37:03] <L84Supper> C is for the weak of mind
[22:37:05] <bzzzz> seriously, using luts for state machines is like sending an army of shiny drones into the sun
[22:37:17] <L84Supper> just give me 1's and 0's
[22:37:38] <bzzzz> are you a vhdl/verilog guy?
[22:38:55] <L84Supper> not when I'm mixing polymers, but i still prefer to design and pack gates by hand in fpga's
[22:39:27] <Connor> anyone around good with gladevcp ?
[22:40:20] <bzzzz> chemical engineering?
[22:40:21] <L84Supper> but vhdl/verilog come in handy when I'm only using 50% of the gates available
[22:40:48] <bzzzz> laziness is good, that's my last free advice of the day
[22:41:41] <L84Supper> my mom says i have to resort my sock drawer anyway
[22:42:18] <L84Supper> g'night
[22:55:41] <pcw_home> Theres no much serious motion control without FPGAs
[22:56:45] <L84Supper> take it with a grain of salt
[22:56:50] <pcw_home> Used In all high end drives
[22:59:53] <pcw_home> and getting more integrated and migrating lower as time goes on
[23:01:23] <L84Supper> http://pumpingstationone.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/gantry-2-640.jpg
[23:01:57] <L84Supper> i just looked at this again, they also are spellbound by the RPi and repraps
[23:02:32] <L84Supper> you can buy $500 Scara's that will do a much better job
[23:03:05] <L84Supper> but no, these 20's somethings have a better idea
[23:05:55] <pcw_home> I do think that M Haberlers 'MachineKit' idea is a good future LInuxCNC direction
[23:05:57] <pcw_home> since hardware capable of running a RTOS/HAL and communications are getting
[23:05:58] <pcw_home> close to a single chip and memory
[23:06:52] <L84Supper> oh the A31 kernel tree and reference schematics are out
[23:07:06] <L84Supper> same pinout as the a10 but 4 core
[23:07:51] <pcw_home> The cubieboard will have a A20 varient (I think the A31 is different)
[23:08:45] <L84Supper> a31 is quad cortex a7
[23:09:10] <pcw_home> Yeah but I think it has a different pinout
[23:10:08] <L84Supper> a10 and and a20 same pinout
[23:10:47] <pcw_home> Yes (though A20 may need a heatsink at 1 GHz+)
[23:11:16] <pcw_home> just about done with my cubieboard FPGA card
[23:11:59] <L84Supper> $30 in parts gets you quad >1ghz ARM and 2GB DDR3 and all the IO
[23:13:21] <L84Supper> interested to see how this all works out
[23:13:24] <pcw_home> For industrial things the question might be for how long, however
[23:14:43] <L84Supper> any news on Zynq?
[23:14:47] <pcw_home> I expect that even volumes like the RPI are not too interesting to the cell phone chip manufacturers
[23:14:56] <L84Supper> wondering where the final price will be
[23:16:03] <pcw_home> No new info I need to contact Xilinx since thats my next task
[23:16:05] <pcw_home> Altera has some competitive parts so that will help
[23:16:18] <L84Supper> force their hand
[23:16:54] <pcw_home> and the parallela thing still claims to be $100 and they have moved up to a 7020
[23:17:20] <pcw_home> (after talking to Xilinx)
[23:18:38] <L84Supper> I'd like to see a non Broadcon RPi type board
[23:19:14] <L84Supper> cubie had no funding
[23:19:18] <pcw_home> your strobe question a few days ago got me interested in a LED strobe so I bought a 60W LED to play with
[23:19:35] <L84Supper> heh, i noticed
[23:19:43] <L84Supper> i just wanted to buy vs build
[23:19:54] <L84Supper> I don't have time to build everything
[23:20:27] <pcw_home> I was reading that 10 ns pulses are possible with blue
[23:20:55] <pcw_home> phosphor lifetime limits white to > 1 usec or so
[23:21:06] <L84Supper> 3 months ago I paid $30 for 1 W 405m leds, last week I paid $3 for 3W 405m leds
[23:21:36] <Jymmm> 3W LEDs ?????????????????
[23:21:39] <pcw_home> Yeah I see more an more LED street light around here
[23:21:50] <L84Supper> unless you're trying to capture over 1M fps that should good
[23:22:11] <Jymmm> LED street lighting is nasty for EMI/RFI output
[23:22:37] <L84Supper> PWM the street lights?
[23:23:07] <L84Supper> 405nm leds ^^
[23:23:23] <L84Supper> prices are dropping like rocks
[23:24:07] <Jymmm> L84Supper: no clue
[23:25:04] <pcw_home> You get diminishing returns with more than say 3x normal current in pulses for
[23:25:06] <pcw_home> strobe use but starting with a 60 W LED you have a lot of visible light at even
[23:25:07] <pcw_home> 0.1% duty cycles and no high voltage and completely programmable on time
[23:25:27] <L84Supper> http://universal-led.en.made-in-china.com/product/KSXJvyfBEQhz/China-Power-LED-Chips-UN-HP-80W-.html
[23:25:39] <L84Supper> pcw_home: did you order something similar
[23:27:40] <L84Supper> http://www.ledfedy.com/
[23:28:55] <pcw_home> Yes 60W
[23:29:17] <L84Supper> http://www.ledfedy.com/products/5w-100w-led/12w-100w-led/c-73/
[23:30:32] <L84Supper> they list these as strobe LED's
http://www.ledfedy.com/products/5mm-strobe-led/5mm-hyper-strobe-led/c-127/
[23:31:23] <L84Supper> but i think they meant flashing and color changing
[23:31:59] <pcw_home> Yeah strobe in the disco sense
[23:33:47] <L84Supper> strobe + digital microscope on the spindle
[23:34:32] <pcw_home> I found out about white LED phosphor decay time in a apaper about modulating white
[23:34:33] <pcw_home> LED room lighting at 10 MBPS for network comms
[23:34:54] <L84Supper> http://www.leica-microsystems.com/products/digital-microscopes/details/product/leica-dms1000/
[23:35:23] <L84Supper> yeah well it's phosphor
[23:35:41] <L84Supper> it doesn't have to be white light
[23:36:22] <pcw_home> I was going to get blue but big blue LED arrays are less common
[23:37:04] <Connor> it possible to use a gladevcp LED as a signal output ?
[23:37:41] <pcw_home> probably not fast enough for a strobe light
[23:37:44] <Connor> Setting up a group of buttons that are grouped toggether.. you press one and it toggles on.. you press another it toggles all the other off and toggles itself on.
[23:38:31] <pcw_home> Dont know, the gladevcp people are probably asleep
[23:38:58] <L84Supper> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/615620332/50w_420nm_led.html might make a faster strobe
[23:39:07] <pcw_home> and mentioning that make me sleepy
[23:39:58] <pcw_home> yes for more exotic uses (down to 10 ns or so)
[23:40:18] <pcw_home> 'nite
[23:40:26] <L84Supper> same here
