#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-23

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[01:49:20] <R2E4_> wheres skunkworks?
[01:53:49] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/kearney.jpg
[02:00:23] <mazafaka> key arneey gee peg
[02:02:31] <mazafaka> this is old machine but no one says it is worn off. Besides, you probably can renew the surfaces (on which table slides) using another equipment in this shop or another.
[02:04:01] <mazafaka> R2E4_ If you decide to clean it, what will you use? Kerosene or solvent?
[02:17:22] <ProxDem> damn R2E4_ you're at it late tonite =)
[02:31:09] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/user/Eksmast/videos?view=0 its in russian but google translates it fine .. if someone needs tips on grinding drills =)
[02:31:27] <mrsun> and other stuff :P
[02:50:40] <mazafaka> Learning something is nice, but in reality you need to perform a job or certain task.
[02:53:09] <mazafaka> For example it is not said anywhere why one would need a very low back angle on drill bit. Thatis for vertical spindle which isn't tight in axial directions and by the end of drilling just falls down and the drill is being blocked from spinning with uncut material.
[02:54:16] <mazafaka> You learn this all during work, actually. This way it is safer for your free time.
[02:56:19] <mazafaka> I meant the ability to learn more makes you nervous, sometimes.
[03:12:15] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:12:48] <ProxDem> moin
[06:29:48] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[09:51:45] <andypugh> Has anyone seen any neat mountings for inductive proximity sensors?
[09:52:23] <JT-Shop> I use a through hole usually with a nut on each side...
[09:52:30] <andypugh> I see lots mounted with nuts on a bit of angle.
[09:52:58] <andypugh> I was thinking that something tidier might be nice :-)
[09:53:00] <JT-Shop> aye, that's what I do mosly... I did edge mount one in a plate for one application
[09:53:22] <andypugh> Ideally I would like to bury them inside the machine frame, but that looks harder.
[09:53:32] <andypugh> (It's difficult to mill the mill)
[09:53:55] <archivist> iirc the "bit of angle" is usually in the prox sensors catalogue too
[09:56:28] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/251368
[09:56:35] <andypugh> It looks lik an arrangement prone to getting tangled up in swarf.
[09:56:49] <JT-Shop> the little stepped block is the prox mount with a nut on either side
[09:57:33] <JT-Shop> it allowed me to move the prox in and out with a 90 degree connector to set the home position of the servo
[09:57:34] <andypugh> I guess it is nice to be able to see the end light up.
[10:00:37] <JT-Shop> this mornings project http://imagebin.org/251369
[10:00:52] <andypugh> What I would like to do is bury the proxes in the actual slideways.
[10:01:15] <andypugh> Loading ramp?
[10:01:48] <JT-Shop> yea, my Spyder has very low ground clearance so I had lengthen the ramps for my trailer
[10:02:33] <JT-Shop> I think the CHNC has a couple of buried proxes IIRC
[10:11:01] <Tom_itx> andypugh, are you all done with those .ngc files? i'm cleaning house a bit...
[10:12:19] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, all finished thanks.
[10:25:39] <L84Supper> http://imagebin.org/251372 sent someone this for an example pic, and this is what they proposed http://imagebin.org/251373
[10:27:23] <archivist> hmm some have little clue of bending forces
[10:28:23] <L84Supper> and this is from a company that makes automation components
[10:29:02] <andypugh> Twist and Shout.
[10:29:14] <archivist> a lot of automation co's just move light loads
[10:29:30] <JT-Shop> most do pick and place suff
[10:29:37] <archivist> force...what is force
[10:30:21] <L84Supper> told them we wanted < +- 5um repeatability
[10:30:40] <andypugh> If the very bottom layer of their proposal was doubled up to give a decent span, the rest is maybe OK.
[10:31:14] <andypugh> As long as you don't mind wild oscillations any time an axis moves.
[10:31:17] <archivist> heh 5 microns, thermal effects will be difficult there
[10:31:43] <L84Supper> it's temp controlled
[10:31:50] <archivist> a light wind will bend the column
[10:32:09] <andypugh> Yes, they probably need to keep the door closed.
[10:32:19] <L84Supper> hehe
[10:32:35] <andypugh> OK, to the workshop!
[10:32:56] <Tom_itx> make it happen
[10:33:04] <archivist> the cable strain will bend the thing just a bit!
[10:34:54] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/251374 Built JT Tough
[10:35:52] <L84Supper> nice rims
[10:36:04] <archivist> I pity the wheels
[10:36:23] <JT-Shop> Dodge K car rear axle, wheels and hub caps
[10:36:28] <archivist> specially the little front ones
[10:36:37] <L84Supper> JT-Shop: are you clearing a small forest?
[10:36:44] <JT-Shop> they are just for moving around in the shop
[10:36:47] <archivist> rain forest
[10:37:22] <JT-Shop> naw, I just split 2 cords a year
[10:37:37] <Tom_itx> so much beef for 2 cords?
[10:38:06] <Tom_itx> hell, i thought you were going into the wood splitting business...
[10:38:34] <JT-Shop> lol
[10:38:58] <JT-Shop> I got carried away a bit...
[10:39:38] <L84Supper> if an archaeologist were to dig this up in 1000 years, what might they assume about it or us?
[10:39:42] <Tom_itx> you should add a kickstand on the left end so you can stand it up when not in use to conserve floor space
[10:41:21] <archivist> L84Supper, get JT to make your machine...may be a little too strong though :)
[10:42:01] <L84Supper> his ram is more of what I expected the z-axis to look like
[10:42:09] <Tom_itx> JT drives a frontloader to work
[10:42:24] * JT-Shop walks to work
[10:52:58] <Tom_itx> mmm, snowing again
[11:16:56] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: this year is going to go from snow one day to 85 F and humid the next
[11:39:46] <JT-Shop> they work http://imagebin.org/251384
[11:40:06] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/251385
[11:40:56] * JT-Shop goes to clean up the mess and start on the next project for the day
[11:41:39] <DJ9DJ> yeah, nice
[11:42:12] <DJ9DJ> they need some paint ;)
[11:43:06] <JT-Shop> I'm not sure how to match black/rust
[11:43:13] <JT-Shop> oh and dirt too
[11:45:00] <DJ9DJ> make them red, so you find them in the woods ;)
[12:04:22] <JT-Shop> custom_postgui.hal:2: Pin 'halui.jog.0.moins' does not exist
[12:04:34] <JT-Shop> so hal is not multi-lingual
[12:57:34] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:59:02] <IchGuckLive> mountons of snow today in europ
[13:06:07] <pcw_home> not a lot of snow here
[13:06:19] <IchGuckLive> @all im searching for a good shape to get a cube out of 6 equal metal pieces 2mm Thick that sticks together
[13:06:48] <IchGuckLive> 4x4 inch or 100x100 mm
[13:28:24] <IchGuckLive> for your dxf archiv -> http://www.dxf-downloads.de/downloads/dxf-mit-bilder/
[13:49:50] <IchGuckLive> hi nick
[13:50:00] <IchGuckLive> Nick001-Shop: what are you selling
[13:50:54] <archivist> shop is short for workshop, not a selling shop
[13:51:18] <IchGuckLive> ah at the mill
[13:51:25] <IchGuckLive> ATM
[14:18:34] <IchGuckLive> more free dxf https://freedxf.com/product-image-gallery
[14:22:35] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today !
[14:25:18] <Nick001-Shop> Just got back - shop means the computer at my machine shop where I make mostly spur gears and timing belt pulleys alot of the time
[14:44:13] <L84Supper> anyone having good luck with an open source 5-axis CAM tool?
[14:50:42] <jdh> I've never had any luck with open source any--axis cam tool
[14:51:13] <archivist> I hand code my 5 axis
[15:00:18] <L84Supper> I have to automate and customize this so MasterCAM is out
[15:01:10] <L84Supper> http://openscam.com/ has 5-axis simulation
[15:01:28] <archivist> is the job regular enough that its just a scripting job ?
[15:02:06] <L84Supper> the parts change often
[15:03:19] <L84Supper> looks like something to write. I just have to see if it could just be added to pycam or if it's just best to start from scratch
[15:04:06] <L84Supper> openscam has some but not all of the Linuxcnc g-code implemented
[15:04:08] <archivist> I only see 3 axis on open scam
[15:04:38] <archivist> No 5-axis simulation. See ticket #15.
[15:09:09] <L84Supper> http://code.google.com/p/opencamlib/ or build something using this and add 5-axis support
[15:10:25] <L84Supper> http://heeks.net/ heeksCNC used those libs
[15:11:10] <archivist> what do you mean by the parts change often, if the parts are classes of parts then it is more scriptable
[15:11:38] <archivist> heeks has slowed to a stop
[15:12:17] <archivist> dan went back to svn on google code as the git fork was a mess
[15:12:30] <L84Supper> yeah, the question is where to start? restart heeks where they left off or just start fresh
[15:13:02] <L84Supper> pycam is active
[15:13:35] <L84Supper> or not
[15:14:03] <L84Supper> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycam/files/ 2011-06-13
[15:14:33] <archivist> I have seen some people try to speed it up and disappear
[15:14:51] <L84Supper> this is a funded project
[15:14:52] <archivist> said to be very slow
[15:15:23] <L84Supper> the toolpath generation is slow or the devs there? :)
[15:15:38] <archivist> toolpath generation
[15:16:03] <andypugh> I am not sure how much that matters
[15:16:15] <archivist> a lot if it is days
[15:16:20] <L84Supper> wow
[15:16:38] <archivist> ask Thetawaves :)
[15:17:29] <andypugh> OK, it matters when path generation time is greater than machining time
[15:18:17] <archivist> there was another person in #cam who was using cython iirc to get some speed
[15:19:08] <archivist> and that was on 3 axis stuff, and you want 5
[15:19:40] <L84Supper> whats the best approach if in a few months there could be a full time dev to even get it working on the GPU for real time toolpath generation?
[15:19:51] <archivist> but there is another project :) we are waiting on permissions
[15:24:09] <L84Supper> long term it would support toolpath generation for robot arms and 5-axis cnc
[15:24:57] <L84Supper> the mastercam package is ~$25k with the robot add-in
[15:26:27] <L84Supper> the price actually isn't a problem as much as not being able to customize it
[15:31:43] <archivist> not sure "a few months" and "a full time dev" can manage what you want
[15:33:18] <archivist> considering the man years in commercial packages
[15:33:29] <t12> i think processing time isnt the problem
[15:33:42] <t12> it seems more like a symbolic geometry solver kind of thing
[15:33:57] <t12> aka dev math nightmare
[15:34:19] <t12> robot arm ik pathing is suprisingly hard
[15:34:24] <ReadError> i have some sad news
[15:34:28] <ReadError> i think my drill is broke
[15:34:29] <t12> esp with arbitrary constraints
[15:34:32] <ReadError> alot of slop on the chuck ;/
[15:34:42] <ReadError> i think its under warranty still
[15:35:20] <archivist> well all I have see so far are mainly iterative solvers finding the constraints and that is where the time is
[15:37:58] <t12> the problem space gets big quick
[15:41:46] <archivist> there seems an expectation that 5 axis should be as easy as throwing a solid at a slicer then to a 3d printer....
[15:42:27] <t12> i run into lots of scientists and programmers who think mills are 3d printers
[15:43:26] <t12> in the load your file and hit play sense
[15:43:54] <archivist> very different problems, tooling, path, fixtures, and can the machine reach the angle, is the item strong enough for the cutting forces.....
[15:45:24] <t12> how do normal people do this
[15:45:27] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/eh4wale4up3hf3p/FAaen-eIpS
[15:45:32] <t12> esp for deep cuts
[15:46:02] <t12> thats a bore path with a big ballnose cause it was the longest milling bit i had
[15:46:13] <archivist> I cannot view that
[15:46:37] <t12> hm
[15:47:16] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/yfat6vodi7ehmus/WSMRPTPBMX
[15:48:04] <t12> imagine boring path with the spindle axis parallel with that arc centerpoint axis
[15:48:57] <t12> normally would it be single point fly cuttered or something
[15:48:58] <archivist> last time I machined a bearing shell I used a single point boring tool on a horizontal mill
[15:49:08] <t12> if say you had to do a 1ft cut like that
[15:49:34] <t12> gotcha
[15:50:43] <t12> trying to make die grinder toolpost mount
[15:50:55] <L84Supper> archivist: in a few months there would be a full time dev. i can see the development going on for years with many devs in a team
[15:50:58] <t12> as an attempt to regrind thse lathe jaws
[15:51:33] <archivist> t12, I have done similar with a dremel
[15:51:54] <t12> did it work well?
[15:51:56] <archivist> L84Supper, interesting :)
[15:52:10] <L84Supper> MasterCAM is for cutting tools, software for 5-axis or robot arms for additive manufacturing doesn't exist yet
[15:52:26] <archivist> t12 not too bad...or good, was better than it used to be
[15:52:50] <t12> run into any problems in the grind operation?
[15:53:07] <archivist> the dremel bearings
[15:53:27] <t12> 5axis additive pathing would def be easier then subtractiv
[15:53:40] <archivist> and mount, made the system too flexible
[15:54:05] <t12> i wonder what the die grinder runout is/will be
[15:54:10] <L84Supper> additive manufacturing might be used for 3d parts that have been cast or machined. A 3D printer might overmold or finish the complex multi-material part off
[15:54:28] <L84Supper> there isn't any standard software to do this
[15:54:38] <t12> i could always add bearings
[15:54:43] <archivist> preload your bearings so you dont have runout after dressing the grinding tool
[15:55:27] <L84Supper> additive manufacturing needs to work with pre-existing parts that are scanned or with their parametric models and then add on to them
[15:55:30] <t12> spring and plates between the grinder collet and body?
[15:56:10] <t12> wonder if thatd be hard to make stable
[16:00:08] <archivist> L84Supper, I think you are adding another can of worms there, as you need to sense the tolerance of the pre existing lump before you add to it
[16:02:07] <L84Supper> archivist: yes, and how it effects the 3d printer depends on the tech used to apply it
[16:03:21] <L84Supper> an injket or nozzle for instance needs 1-3mm or clearance between it self and the surface of the object
[16:05:06] <L84Supper> if the part gets placed into a tank full of polymer and a laser or dlp scanner then interacts with it as it gets dipped or drawn up out of the tank won't have the same issues
[16:05:17] <archivist> has to be consistent to get the time of flight and where the ink lands right
[16:06:28] <L84Supper> that and also alignment since you are probably making several print passes (interlacing)
[16:07:04] <L84Supper> all this software has to be developed
[16:07:36] <pcw_home> painting a curve in 2 dimensions might require "lead" on the longer time of flight drops
[16:07:38] <L84Supper> it's similar to CAM and creating tool paths only the tools aren't cutting but spraying or projecting
[16:08:52] <archivist> reminds my of my old job :)
[16:09:23] <L84Supper> the 3d printers out there now pretty much only think and operate in 2.5D
[16:09:38] <L84Supper> and most only have one type of tech in the printer
[16:10:34] <L84Supper> additive manufacturing systems will have multiple techs to produce parts with multiple materials
[16:11:33] <archivist> has anyone used glass/carnon fibre filled plastic yet
[16:11:39] <archivist> carbon
[16:12:03] <L84Supper> I make composite resins like that
[16:12:29] <archivist> but in additive printing I mean
[16:12:44] <L84Supper> carbon, fibergalss, silicas, aluminum oxide etc etc
[16:14:04] <L84Supper> yeah, that's what we are doing, most of the R&D is going into making materials and then software
[16:14:58] <L84Supper> archivist: the main problem has been the old patent holders just making old slow machines with limited materials
[16:15:16] <L84Supper> some printers lock you out from using your own materials, just like inkjets
[16:15:52] <archivist> some of the patents should be expiring?
[16:16:25] <L84Supper> yeah, but there are overlapping and new patents that include old claims
[16:17:02] <L84Supper> and the USPTO's attitude is "let the courts settle it"
[16:17:23] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130319-eff-partnered-with-ask-patents-to-fight-for-open-3d-printing.html
[16:19:33] <L84Supper> if things don't change in the west China is going to end up with all the tech
[16:19:41] <L84Supper> all the good tech
[16:20:03] <archivist> but they export it back :)
[16:21:35] <L84Supper> until somebody files a suit or petition with the customs office
[16:22:10] <archivist> but so far plastic printing has only lost me money
[16:25:07] <L84Supper> cnc hot melt guns are giving the industry a bad image
[16:28:42] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130323-450-fab-labs-in-us-and-100-innovation-houses-in-shanghai.html
[16:34:29] <Connor> jdh: What's up?
[16:41:26] <t12> the lockout material thing
[16:41:34] <t12> will go the way of clone inkjet cartridges i'm guessing
[16:41:40] <t12> that seems to be how they're implmented
[16:41:43] <t12> that stuff is alwats breakable
[16:47:28] <L84Supper> t12: those are all old slow printers anyway
[16:47:47] <t12> i'm just saying that generally media lockout will end up being addon ic's and such
[16:47:50] <t12> to auth cartridges
[16:47:57] <t12> and they're always beatable
[16:48:06] <t12> hard to make it really integral
[16:48:21] <L84Supper> we just went to China to make better printers to solve that problem
[16:49:02] <L84Supper> it's surprising how many users though don't go around the locked down cartridge or similar issues
[16:51:58] <t12> its a pain in the ass
[16:52:03] <t12> usually its a companies unit
[16:52:07] <t12> who cares how much they pay for media
[16:52:56] <L84Supper> but that is also why the tech has been for protos only, the materials have been to expensive and the printers far too slow
[16:54:27] <L84Supper> is anyone going to have a business making housewares or other plastic items using most FFF printers?
[16:54:55] <L84Supper> even parts suitable for the tech are churned out far too slowly
[16:55:32] <L84Supper> and with filament at even $15/Lb the pellets for injection molding are only ~$2/lb
[17:03:13] <t12> find a plastics manufacturer
[17:03:18] <t12> that will manufacture directly to filament
[17:03:24] <t12> with no pellet intermediate
[17:03:38] <t12> and give them a big enough order to be worth adding the process
[17:05:52] <L84Supper> most FFF applications are easily replaced with much faster DLP SLA
[17:07:14] <L84Supper> FFF is great for use along with SLA for the extrusion of materials that don't work well as a photopolymer
[17:08:14] <L84Supper> or from a jet or micro-nozzle as an aerosol
[17:08:37] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:14:43] <gene77> Hi everybody; I have an eps file created by potrace, and now need to make gcode out of it. Is there such a tool?
[17:16:31] <Tom_L> what's eps?
[17:16:58] <Tom_L> postscript?
[17:17:37] <Tom_L> will inkscape read it?
[17:26:07] <gene77> inkscape should, haven't tried. I found image2gcode, and it only saw the .png which is still analog, and its been grinding away on that since I posted.
[17:27:02] <gene77> I'll wait till this is done, then try that.
[17:31:02] <gene77> I must be out of memory, inscape runs, but can't show me a file list to open
[17:31:37] <gene77> image2gcode is still munching along
[17:41:28] <r00t4rd3d> i could covert that to dxf for u
[17:41:51] <r00t4rd3d> aspire reads eps
[17:44:41] <gene77> image finally completed, but it is not even close to usable. And inkscape says that directory is empty even when set for All Files. :(
[17:45:43] <r00t4rd3d> can you post the eps file someplace?
[17:47:36] <gene77> yes, hang on
[17:53:30] <gene77> imagebin.org won't take the eps, and pastebin.com won't let me. Alternative?
[17:53:48] <r00t4rd3d> https://anonfiles.com/
[17:53:53] <r00t4rd3d> zip or rar it
[17:56:00] <gene77> hell its only 1100 bytes, but it won't take an encapsulated postscript either
[17:56:50] <gene77> And an eps is already smunched far better than bzip can do.
[18:00:52] <gene77> screw it, I have queries to the mailing list because I have done this, just can't recall its name.
[18:14:18] <gene77> inkscape was able to import the .pnm version, but seems unable to actually do anything with it.
[18:14:44] <andypugh> t12: I guess you have only ever had good vices. There is no way you would get away with holding the work like that with a cheap vice, and I still think that you are lucky to get away with it with the Kurt.
[18:15:04] <gene77> to say I'm not an inscape guru would be in the running for comment of the year
[18:15:12] <andypugh> t12: Much better to grip the longer sides, and being in the middle of the jaws works a lot better.
[18:21:28] <gene77> I just found I had mcodegenerator.py, but when I try to open it, lcnc goes away, and now I've lost my references to carving this thing. Grrrr.
[18:40:08] <gene77> and it turns out that needs blender
[18:47:21] <gene77> install blender, but I can't find a file it will open, everything in the file open menu is ghosted out
[18:58:00] <andypugh> I wish I knew what this guy was on about, and what the coloured pens indicate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo_jodq41hY
[18:58:09] <andypugh> He does take proper big cuts though.
[19:00:20] <t12> andypugh: may be true
[19:00:31] <t12> that was def an iffy grab
[19:00:39] <t12> i dont know how else i would have grabbed it for that cut though
[19:01:08] <andypugh> you couldn't rotate 90 and cut in the Y?
[19:01:10] <t12> could have remounted the whole vise sideways
[19:01:11] <t12> i guess
[19:02:43] <t12> i usually zero to the vise corner hence the mounting in the edge
[19:02:55] <t12> i've had very little work slippage, usually from not tightening well enough
[19:03:06] <t12> or from not drying up the contact surface
[19:03:42] <andypugh> In the middle with a depth stop is probably better.
[19:04:49] <andypugh> But I have never had a decent vice, so I need to compensate.
[19:05:27] <t12> that vise is very... unused
[19:05:35] <t12> this whole shop is more or less idle other than me
[19:09:36] <andypugh> I made an interesting tool today. Who can guess what it is for? https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5858691569508129186?banner=pwa
[19:09:51] <andypugh> (it's a modified live centre)
[19:14:38] <t12> hum
[19:21:19] <skunkworks> I give up
[19:21:28] <andypugh> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5858692186241200882?banner=pwa
[19:21:59] <andypugh> I can fasten a disc to it, to support a tube, to machine the end square.
[19:23:43] <andypugh> (I don't have a fixed steady, and that would rub the paint off anyway.
[19:25:42] <skunkworks> neat
[19:27:41] <andypugh> The idea is that in the future I can fasten any sort of tailstock support to the centre. It was one I broke earlier, so I am making a benefit out of a disaster.
[19:44:22] <skunkworks> very neat
[19:47:35] <andypugh> In the course of making it I once again realised that I _really_ need to make a table of thread depths.
[19:48:08] <andypugh> Because it isn't simple with profiled tools.
[19:48:49] <andypugh> The thread rounding and difference between nuts and bolts and the clearance and such make it very non-trivial.
[20:40:41] <Tom_itx> andypugh got a pic of your modified live center?
[20:40:54] <andypugh> Err, yes?
[20:41:37] <r00t4rd3d> whats up with the goat in a diaper?
[20:42:14] <andypugh> It's a sheep!
[20:43:14] <r00t4rd3d> are those the things that lay polyester?
[20:44:14] <Tom_itx> i guess i didn't scroll up enough :)
[20:44:51] <Tom_itx> how did you get it apart to mod it?
[20:45:20] <Tom_itx> i've never really looked at mine for disassembly
[20:47:28] <andypugh> That one is easy. The outer bit (ground finish) simply unscrews.
[20:48:15] <Tom_itx> i'll have to look mine over one day, not that i need to mod it..
[20:49:51] <andypugh> That was a cheap one. I think I have seen the same thing with interchangeable ends.
[20:50:19] <Tom_itx> my lathe is too small to get to creative with it
[20:50:33] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[20:50:43] <Tom_itx> probably too old and rickety to try to cnc
[20:51:34] <andypugh> it wasn't an entirely new idea, you can buy them: http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=centre&PN=2MT_REVOLVING_CENTRE_SECTION%2ehtml#a1000665
[20:54:45] <andypugh> Tom_itx: There is a guy on the forum intending to CNC a 100 year old Drummond
[20:55:39] <andypugh> One of these: http://www.lathes.co.uk/drummondroundbed/
[20:56:12] <Tom_itx> heh
[20:57:43] <t12> it can be driven by a retrofitted fire control computer!
[20:57:51] <t12> that reads automatic piano drums
[20:59:08] <andypugh> The Drummond is not as crude as it looks. There is a leadscrew in the middle of the cylindrical bed, and the slide/tailstock are located by a bevelled slot in the bottom of the bed.
[20:59:28] <Tom_itx> so the bottom is split
[20:59:37] <andypugh> There is a slot, yes.
[21:00:03] <andypugh> Which makes the Z really easy to CNC. Less so the X
[21:01:26] <t12> model engineer, 1919 edition!
[21:01:33] <t12> i didnt know model engineering was a thing, then
[21:06:55] <andypugh> Oh, very much so. And much earlier too.
[21:13:33] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_engineering suggest that the term was in use by 1888
[21:15:10] <skunkworks> we almost cnc'ed one of these.. http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/mechanics/Mechanical-Processes/images/Fig-192-Planer.jpg
[21:15:14] <skunkworks> but scrapped it..
[21:15:48] <andypugh> :-(
[21:15:56] <skunkworks> it was in pretty tough shape.
[21:16:10] <andypugh> They can be rather useful in Plano-Mill form
[21:18:32] <Tom_itx> i should look more into a better spindle control on mine
[21:18:50] <Tom_itx> with fwd / rev
[21:24:26] <Tom_itx> mmm they make a kit to convert the DC motor to a stepper driven spindle instead
[21:24:31] <Tom_itx> why would you want to do that?
[21:25:01] <andypugh> if you are committed to Mach?
[21:25:09] <skunkworks> convert what"
[21:25:11] <skunkworks> ?
[21:25:29] <Tom_L> http://www.sherline.com/6500pg.htm
[21:26:17] <andypugh> If you just want the head as an indexer?
[21:26:25] <Tom_L> no
[21:26:35] <Tom_L> not me anyway
[21:26:51] <Tom_L> it would work ok for that i suppose
[21:27:24] <skunkworks> that his how hoss rigid taps with mach...
[21:27:26] <Tom_L> not sure about the holding torque even at that
[21:27:43] <Tom_L> that was the idea for mine
[21:27:57] <Tom_L> i did add an encoder to the spindle on mine already though
[21:28:08] <Tom_L> i just need the DC motor control for it now
[21:29:43] <t12> i've discovered an intensely annoying mach thing on this tormach
[21:29:47] <t12> which may really be their usb controller
[21:29:56] <t12> i think the debounce is flakey
[21:30:14] <t12> so if you let the jog spring back sometimes the machines just drifts in the other direction slowly
[21:30:17] <t12> until you hard stop it
[21:30:26] <andypugh> I think Tormach support LinuxCNC too?
[21:30:32] <Tom_L> haha, i found a txt file i started as a flow chart for my pendant spindle logic..
[21:30:41] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/spindle_control.txt
[21:30:46] <Tom_L> don't think i finished it
[21:30:47] <t12> yeah
[21:30:50] <t12> i remember seeing a profile for it
[21:31:06] <andypugh> The solution seems obvious :-)
[21:31:42] <Tom_L> i was overthinking it at the time i believe
[21:31:42] <t12> i'd convert it
[21:31:44] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNTSkN69r4M
[21:31:46] <t12> but not my machine
[21:33:28] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk2.jpg
[21:33:38] <Tom_L> kinda gets in the way but it does work
[21:33:52] <Tom_L> printer encoder
[21:37:27] <Tom_L> i considered trying to use the washer motor for the spindle but it's kinda big for the sherline
[21:38:28] <andypugh> Aha! A genuine use for the splash-screen: http://youtu.be/IECXvgYB7Mo
[21:51:35] <Tom_L> took pics of the motor / control...
[21:56:33] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/3ph_motor.jpg
[21:56:36] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/control1.jpg
[21:57:14] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/control2.jpg
[21:57:24] <Tom_L> dunno if lcnc could control that or not
[21:59:01] <Tom_L> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/200/ir2136-83751.pdf
[21:59:43] <Tom_L> it's got some sort of serial interface to the control
[22:04:47] <Tom_L> at first i thought the pulley was turned as part of the shaft but it's been pressed on
[22:04:55] <Tom_L> or heated and slipped on
[22:06:39] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/yczpqrmoqtvd2eu/fAh1PxP-c6#/
[22:06:41] <t12> getting closer
[22:07:22] <Tom_L> for a live tooling?
[22:07:36] <Tom_L> or is that for a spindle
[22:07:55] <t12> attempt at a die grinder toolpost mount
[22:24:15] <andypugh> Tom_L: What's under the heatsink?
[22:24:36] <Tom_itx> not sure, probably mosfets
[22:24:41] <andypugh> might be worth identifying the ICs
[22:24:56] <Tom_itx> i got the pdf for the 3phase driver
[22:25:10] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/BLDC/ir2136.pdf
[22:25:23] <andypugh> IR2136 is a Mosfet driver
[22:25:38] <Tom_itx> my guess is mosfets under the heatsink then :)
[22:26:16] <andypugh> So, cut the pins for the PWM inputs and wire direct to a Mesa 3PWMgen
[22:26:36] <Tom_itx> don't use the serial in?
[22:27:59] <andypugh> If you can decode the protocol, then maybe
[22:28:08] <Tom_itx> i was gonna try that first
[22:28:11] <Tom_itx> one of these days
[22:28:18] <Tom_itx> mounting the motor might be a trick
[22:28:38] <Tom_itx> no thru bolts on it, they're rivets
[22:30:04] <andypugh> Set it up an a lathe beween centres and turn a spigot on the output shaft bearing housing.
[22:30:43] <andypugh> Then glue on a plate to make it spigot-mounted.
[22:31:36] <andypugh> Though, as it is just a fairly boring induction motor, it might well not be worth the bother.
[22:32:08] <Tom_itx> you think it might work for a spindle motor?
[22:32:19] <Tom_itx> the idea is to be able to rigid tap etc
[22:32:34] <Tom_itx> that or stuff it on the lathe
[22:32:55] <andypugh> In other news: I now have a matrix keyboard set up using GPIO that allows me to type into a terminal window, and supporting 4-key rollover.
[22:33:09] <Tom_itx> nice
[22:33:46] <andypugh> It means that you can, in principle, connect a keyboard to the parport and type in MDI commands with it :-)
[22:33:48] <Tom_itx> low side VCC is 11.5 - 20 on that chip
[22:35:42] <Tom_itx> shows the logic voltage at 3v though
[22:35:48] <Tom_itx> min
[22:35:55] <Tom_itx> max not listed
[22:37:08] <Tom_itx> once i hook it all up, i'll put a scope on the serial in and if it's in the 5v range i'll stick my Logic Analizer on it and capture that
[22:37:57] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, whats your matrix keyboard look like?
[22:38:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://dx.com/p/3-x-4-matrix-12-key-membrane-switch-keypad-keyboard-w-sticker-black-153995
[22:38:18] <r00t4rd3d> like that?
[22:38:47] <andypugh> Almost exactly like that
[22:39:06] <andypugh> Except it is a 4x4 so also has an abcd column
[22:39:31] <Tom_itx> yep, i got some of those from digikey years ago
[22:39:32] <r00t4rd3d> i just looked, so does mine :)
[22:39:38] <Tom_itx> got one left i think
[22:39:41] <andypugh> I can see it being useful, as you get 16 buttons for 8 IO pins.
[22:39:43] <jdh> http://dx.com/p/4x4-matrix-16-key-membrane-switch-keypad-keyboard-117720
[22:39:43] <Tom_itx> with the extra ABCD
[22:40:09] <andypugh> Yes, that's the exact one
[22:40:40] <andypugh> The advantages grow with scale. 8x8 is 16 pins and 64 buttons.
[22:40:44] <r00t4rd3d> i think i ordered one after i seen a post on the forums about them
[22:40:49] <r00t4rd3d> with arduino
[22:41:04] <r00t4rd3d> might of been yours andy
[22:41:26] <andypugh> I don't think so.
[22:41:35] <r00t4rd3d> hmm, well someone made a pendant
[22:42:00] <andypugh> http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~baker/devices/lxr/http/source/linux/include/linux/input.h?v=2.6.11.8 line 108 onwards, which scancode is "#"?
[22:46:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/22562-arduino-based-usb-pendant-for-linuxcnc
[22:46:23] <r00t4rd3d> arceye is the one
[22:47:51] <r00t4rd3d> there was pictures
[22:48:52] <Tom_itx> 123
[22:48:54] <Tom_itx> andy
[22:49:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.lookuptables.com/ebcdic_scancodes.php
[22:51:48] <andypugh> That's the answer to a different question :-)
[22:52:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.siongboon.com/projects/2007-12-08_ascii_code/keyboard%20scan%20code.gif
[22:53:46] <andypugh> And thats the answer to another different question :-)
[22:53:52] <Tom_itx> haha
[22:56:25] <andypugh> It does look like it should be 163, but that is "nextsong" in the linux input.h
[22:58:12] <andypugh> This might explain why it is so hard for me to type # when I am on a VM or vnc-ing to a Linux machine from a Mac with a UK keyboard with no # on it.
[22:58:52] <andypugh> (not a convenient choice for toggling units(?) in axis, or a comment character.)
[22:59:34] <andypugh> I eventually found that it is right-alt-pound on native Mac, but could be anywhere in a VNC or VM.
[23:03:48] <andypugh> Eek! 4am. Documenting this component can wait.
[23:03:51] <andypugh> Night all
[23:04:14] <Tom_itx> night
[23:04:30] <Tom_itx> err morning :D
[23:06:05] <Tom_itx> British Pound Alt 0163
[23:51:42] <R2E4> Hi all'
[23:57:54] <R2E4> Anybody know what this is worth?
[23:58:45] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/kearney.jpg