#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-18

[00:05:34] <archivist> tjtr33, some I have seen/worked on http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=tower
[00:11:28] <tjtr33> wow, those are cool, the first couple in that book were installed here in Elgin, but the buildings have been destroyed. I hate to think what happened to the works.
[00:17:29] <tjtr33> tahts really gorgeous stuff, you can just pick one and study the movement for hours. this turns, that unrolls, that swings one side , the tooth advances, ...
[00:19:31] <t12> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/in2xyuuoptx4rg7/YfYhiJc9fj#/
[00:54:27] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/ho3wiAI.jpg << my pad with new lights repost from earlier
[00:54:45] <Tecan> those lights look good set a nice mood
[00:54:48] <Tecan> 20 dollars
[03:04:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:04:14] <DJ9DJ> hey Jymmm ;)
[03:36:51] <Guest9943> hello, does linuxcnc support turning cycles? cant find the gcode for
[03:37:36] <toastyde1th> Guest9943, it does not
[03:37:58] <Guest9943> and facing cycles?
[03:38:27] <toastyde1th> it doesn't support g70 to g74
[03:41:21] <Guest9943> but a modified g76 should work eh?
[03:41:57] <Guest9943> with pitch=feed
[03:44:32] <toastyde1th> it will take a full depth pass.
[03:44:34] <toastyde1th> and only once.
[03:44:51] <toastyde1th> emc doesn't have the stuff to do roughing/finishing cycles of any sort, sorry
[03:47:31] <Guest9943> kk, thx
[03:57:07] <archivist> you can code it though in the gcode
[04:01:11] <toastyde1th> archivist, ?
[04:01:50] <archivist> o codes a subroutine
[04:02:24] <toastyde1th> nobody has done that yet, and if it has been, it should be included in emc for lathe mode as a default
[04:02:40] <toastyde1th> the lathe facing and turning routines are not trivial
[04:02:43] <archivist> I think plenty have done something
[04:03:52] <toastyde1th> ?
[04:04:21] <toastyde1th> it's come up over and over, and from what everyone's said, there are no plans and no intent to include the standard lathe turning routines in emc
[04:04:24] <archivist> I know I have, and jt does something in ngcgui for the same reason
[04:05:27] <archivist> http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/ngcgui.xhtmlhttp://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/ngcgui.xhtml
[04:05:59] <archivist> accidental double paste there
[04:06:21] <toastyde1th> what am i looking at here
[04:07:00] <archivist> simple clicks to gcode subroutines
[04:07:28] <toastyde1th> so if i have an arbitrary, non-monotonoic profile, there is a subroutine to rough that out?
[04:07:29] <archivist> facing http://gnipsel.com/shop/emc2/files/face.ngc
[04:08:27] <toastyde1th> right, that's not a facing routine to someone used to the facing cycles on other controls
[04:09:02] <toastyde1th> a facing routine on a lathe is two g-codes, and a series of feed commands between them
[04:09:58] <toastyde1th> you describe the finished part profile in gcode, and the lathe automatically figures out how to cut it
[04:10:00] <archivist> you can code what ever you want as a subroutine
[04:11:14] <toastyde1th> right, and that's not what people are asking for when they ask for a roughing/finishing cycle on a lathe; what you're describing is one of the five lathe cycles, but isn't what they're asking for
[04:16:33] <archivist> have you ever written an ocode subroutine in linuxcnc
[04:17:17] <toastyde1th> No, but i've had this conversation with five different people who work on emc and all agree the lathe canned cycles can't be written in ocode
[04:17:32] <toastyde1th> and must be included in emc's codebase itself if they're written at all
[04:18:56] <toastyde1th> if you can do it in ocode, you're going to impress the shit out of many people
[04:21:06] <toastyde1th> the cycle isn't just infeeding an arbitrary profile, so i hope you are not thinking that's an acceptable answer
[04:30:07] <archivist> and g76 is not full depth single pass as you told the visitor
[04:30:25] <Valen> make it out of plastic, sell it for $49.99, profit! http://hackaday.com/2013/03/15/mug-plotter-based-on-the-eggbot
[04:31:21] <toastyde1th> archivist, that's totally wrong, you're correct
[04:31:27] <toastyde1th> but i understood what he was asking and what he was trying to do
[04:31:57] <toastyde1th> because the g76 trick he was referencing is a common way to trick fanuc controls
[04:32:46] <archivist> so have you tried on linuxcnc to get the same effect before saying it cannot work
[04:33:02] <archivist> I have not
[04:33:05] <toastyde1th> i am listening to the devs who tell me it cannot work because this comes up all the time
[04:33:31] <toastyde1th> they may very well be wrong, however - i'm not really saying it can't be done forever and ever amen
[04:34:37] <toastyde1th> someone may come up with an exceptionally clever way to do it in ocode
[04:36:21] <toastyde1th> which would be very exciting because then you could probably port it over and include the milling routines as well
[04:37:16] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:47:31] <R2E4_> .
[07:53:13] <R2E4_> morn'in
[08:04:56] <skunkworks> R2E4_, morning - got your mill yet?
[08:05:17] <R2E4_> YUP..... I hurt my back picking it up....hehe
[08:05:26] <skunkworks> heh
[08:05:53] <skunkworks> kinda like - I flew in from denver and boy my arms are tired..
[08:05:55] <R2E4_> Let me get some pics
[08:06:02] <R2E4_> hahaha
[08:10:36] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/
[08:12:01] <skunkworks> and a lathe too?
[08:12:08] <R2E4_> I'm debating on searching for a transformer 600volt to 440, or use vfd I bought for the spindle and reworking the power for 120.
[08:12:34] <R2E4_> Yeah, the guy gave me the lath. Colchester student
[08:13:32] <R2E4_> The fiberglas control cover for the BP is is pristine condition.
[08:14:54] <R2E4_> The BP is in really good condition. The electronics looks brand new. and very clean. I 'll take some inside pics. We moved the entire shop into a new location the same weekend. So there is lots to do.
[08:21:58] <R2E4_> I heard guys talking about connecting mesa cards directly to the servo amps. I dont know how they are doing that because the inteface along with the amp cards are boards in a card cage.
[08:40:24] <skunkworks> pictures?
[08:42:13] <R2E4_> I didnt take pics of the inside yet. Was busy moving the shop....hehe'
[09:04:07] <r00t4rd3d> is long hair a job requirement?
[09:05:37] <archivist> yes
[09:05:54] <r00t4rd3d> hes got long hair and king cab, HIRED!
[09:06:28] <archivist> one cannot be a geek otherwise
[09:31:50] <mazafaka> archivist: what a weird requirements?
[09:36:53] <archivist> mazafaka, you are a youngster how would you know
[09:40:18] <FinboySlick> archivist: Does that work for every kind of hair?
[09:41:01] <cncinator> hello friends
[09:41:32] <FinboySlick> It must... because I think Andy would be disqualified.
[09:41:42] <mazafaka> archivist: you mean some employee who is not geek and with hair and in age? This is Loetmichel
[09:42:28] <mazafaka> archivist: I have already been suffering from love, I'm a man!
[09:43:00] <mazafaka> M-A-N.
[09:44:16] <skunkworks> cncinator, how is it going?
[09:44:34] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[09:44:35] <logger[psha]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-03-18.html
[09:45:37] <cncinator> skunkworks, i used my mobilephone yesterday to capture threading in POM - quality sucks and tinypic wont let me upload it :(
[09:45:49] <skunkworks> aww - that is ok.
[09:45:52] <skunkworks> working well though?
[09:47:05] <cncinator> it threaded a lil bit too less, g76 on linuxcnc is new to me - but it fits
[09:47:28] <cncinator> that baseline thingy is weird when you com from a more simple mach3 g76 :)
[09:47:47] <skunkworks> I bet.
[09:47:59] <skunkworks> What do you mean - a bit too less?
[09:48:29] <cncinator> the depth of the thread
[09:48:35] <skunkworks> ah
[09:48:46] <skunkworks> but pitch perfect?
[09:49:42] <cncinator> pitch looks nice, but i cut in pom. ill do a 1.4305 thread next - thats on what mach had synch issues
[09:50:30] <skunkworks> can't wait
[09:51:05] <cncinator> sure you can :P
[09:53:11] <cncinator> oh
[09:54:07] <cncinator> when in g7, is 'i' in g76 also diameter?
[09:55:03] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G76-Threading-Canned
[09:55:35] <r00t4rd3d> i just now realized there was an update on the 3rd
[09:57:02] <cncinator> yes it is :x ty cradek
[10:03:13] <skunkworks> cncinator, linuxcnc gives you much more flexabillity - but also makes it more complicated :)
[10:05:23] <cncinator> skunkworks, i saw some videos from andy on youtube. amazin what this software is able to
[10:05:54] <cncinator> compared, mach3 is a childs birthday
[10:06:20] <skunkworks> cncinator, one of my project... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[10:10:28] <cncinator> wow
[10:11:38] <cncinator> this is all controlled over linuxcnc?
[10:11:51] <skunkworks> yes. All of it.
[10:12:17] <skunkworks> linuxcnc is awesome
[10:13:05] <skunkworks> :)
[10:14:33] <cradek> skunkworks: can that machine unload the tool with T0 M6 (find any empty pocket and stick it there)?
[10:15:26] <skunkworks> no - we would not want an empty spindle... hard on the spindle collet. (says in the manuals to not do that)
[10:15:42] <cradek> ah right, forgot it had a collet
[10:16:15] <cncinator> https://www.dropbox.com/s/azd2wa5bk7xtkwt/IMG_20130318_154718.jpg
[10:16:21] <cncinator> this was my last project
[10:16:29] <cncinator> a selfmade fogbuster (tm)
[10:16:32] <R2E4_> cradek: did your boss servo amps have a card cage?
[10:16:55] <cradek> uh I dunno
[10:17:00] <cradek> show me a pic
[10:17:12] <skunkworks> cncinator, nice!
[10:18:31] <R2E4_> I haven't taken pics of the inside yet. I just received my bridgeport this weekend and at the same time moved my shop into a bigger garage.
[10:18:41] <ProxDem> heya guys how's it going? does anybody know what the new Gecok g540 Config entails? do I need to redo stepconf?!?! anywhere I can read about the changes and how they would affect a g540 owner and how a previous setup would be affected from the update
[10:19:06] <R2E4_> I do have a few pics of the machine though.
[10:19:09] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/
[10:20:27] <cradek> R2E4_: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0135.jpg
[10:20:44] <ProxDem> R2E4_: nice
[10:21:19] <cradek> ProxDem: are you talking about the 2.5.2 release note about G540?
[10:21:26] <Loetmichel> *HA!* Got it millling! -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEQZ_TY5q8o
[10:23:39] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: WTH?! That shop is WAY TOO CLEAN
[10:25:02] <ProxDem> cradek: yes =)
[10:25:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: is the spindle that quiet in real life?
[10:25:25] <cradek> ProxDem: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=30f210205e96b6bcb4dcce81ef34c46e5a604013
[10:25:50] <cradek> that is about this change, which added sample configs under configs/gecko. It doesn't affect any existing config you would have.
[10:27:15] <ProxDem> ahh i see it's 2 sample configs for 3axis and 4axis
[10:27:15] <R2E4_> Mine is not like that cradek. Mine is in a card cage with a backplane with the three amps the fmdc board and the IAF interface board.
[10:27:20] <ProxDem> cradek: thanks a bunch =)
[10:28:19] <cradek> R2E4_: huh, there are bound to be little differences I guess. I suppose yours has a lot of extra stuff to drive that crt, and maybe they had to make room by moving other things around
[10:29:51] <R2E4_> cradek: yours was a R2E3?
[10:29:55] <cradek> yes
[10:30:12] <R2E4_> boss 8 or 9?
[10:30:18] <cradek> 8 I think
[10:30:24] <cncinator> im really wondering why backlash compensation and the tool table run so much better here then on mach3
[10:30:55] <cncinator> on my tormach style QCTP i've now +/- 0.015mm
[10:31:01] <R2E4_> The ways on the BP are pristine. Barely used it looks like.
[10:31:16] <cradek> lucky. lots of them are very worn out from production work
[10:31:20] <cncinator> the days befor i had +/- 0.05mm on mach
[10:32:16] <cncinator> with the completely same machine and sensors
[10:32:24] <R2E4_> This one came out of a school, and my friend bought it from them 10 years ago and he barely used it.
[10:33:08] <cradek> schools are a great source for unused machines
[10:33:38] <cradek> try not to cry about declining industrial ed while you pick it up
[10:34:23] <cradek> and how they'll use your money to buy some software licenses from apple or microsoft
[10:34:57] <cradek> oh sorry, I veered out of control there
[10:34:58] <cncinator> haha, forget it - 0.00 off after second finish turning on 1.4301
[10:35:13] <pcw_home> cradek got up on the wrong side of the bed
[10:35:16] <R2E4_> hehe, np happens to the best of us.
[10:36:11] <Jymmm> cradek: Hey, CHILL OUT AND CALM YOUR ASS DOWN... you're making the regular wrestles and scarring off the noobies ;)
[10:36:32] <R2E4_> So this will be a trick one. The amps the fmdc and the iaf is housed in one card cage with a backplane and edge connectors.
[10:37:00] <pcw_home> Docs?
[10:37:18] <R2E4_> yeah, I have all the docs and schematics.
[10:37:26] <cradek> then just di gin
[10:37:28] <cradek> dig in
[10:38:00] <R2E4_> I did, problem is the shovel is dull. Not really getting anywhere yet.
[10:38:10] <R2E4_> and the ground is rock.
[10:38:44] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Nothing a lil explosives and angle grinder can't resolve
[10:39:06] <pcw_home> do the encoders go to the backplane?
[10:39:18] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: it is. the Water pumop is louder
[10:39:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Ah, as that two steppers on the X axis?
[10:39:53] <Jymmm> s/as/is/
[10:40:55] <R2E4_> I don't know, didnt trace them, physically, which is the next ste, but the plans show them going to the fmdc board.
[10:42:22] <R2E4_> I am going to get it p[owered up and running off the original controller first i think to check and see what is working and what is not.
[10:42:32] <pcw_home> What does FMDC stand for?
[10:43:38] <cradek> I made the mistake of fixing the original control on mine - I used it that way until I sold it, then helped the buyer retrofit it :-)
[10:43:56] <R2E4_> Franks Motor Drive Controller card
[10:44:31] <pcw_home> Ha
[10:44:43] <R2E4_> Frank was an engineer at bridgeport, and the BMDC which was foiund in other controls is Brian's motor control card
[10:45:40] <pcw_home> Is the a processor on te FMDC?
[10:46:20] <ProxDem> cncinator: I'm guessing the RT kernel modules make the difference =)
[10:46:28] <pcw_home> and do the give the backplane wiring info?
[10:46:34] <Loetmichel> no, one
[10:46:39] <ProxDem> cncinator: oh nvm you have encoders for position...
[10:46:51] <Loetmichel> and an sperete A axis ;-)
[10:46:53] <Loetmichel> seperate
[10:46:53] <R2E4_> I thought there was going to be three fmdc boards by looking at the schematics, but there is only one board in the card cage that house the logic and power for the three axis I think.
[10:47:05] <R2E4_> Let me check and see if there is a processor on it.
[10:48:09] <cncinator> i only have a single slot on my spindle disc, like in mach
[10:48:24] <pcw_home> more is better!
[10:49:01] <cncinator> yes, i ordered a hall sensor last friday
[10:49:15] <cncinator> this will pick up the 46 gears of my spindle
[10:49:41] <cncinator> (its just a small benchtop lathe)
[10:50:29] <cncinator> https://www.dropbox.com/s/76v05pbn272bijv/IMG_20130318_163306.jpg
[10:50:47] <cncinator> and with linuxcnc my small babymachine gifts me a super sexy m14x0.75
[10:51:00] <cncinator> in stainless 1.4301
[10:51:18] <cncinator> im so fuckin impressed of this software guys
[10:51:33] <archivist> another happy bunny
[10:51:43] <cncinator> really, i was using mach3 4 months and not a single thread comes THAT perfect off
[10:52:18] <R2E4_> pcw_home:http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/fmdc.JPG
[10:52:24] <pcw_home> Thats pretty good for software guessing the position of the spindle all 360 degrees
[10:52:44] <R2E4_> Looks like there is a few on that board
[10:53:36] <cncinator> dont know why i need more slots on the spindle when my parts drop off that fine at the moment ^
[10:53:38] <pcw_home> Wow is that a 68000?
[10:53:38] <cncinator> *^^
[10:54:01] <R2E4_> Looks like it, i haven't pulled it out of the cage.
[10:54:33] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if a ttl serial port draw as much power as does a RS-232 serial port?
[10:54:43] <R2E4_> looks like theres threesmaller micros, one for each axis unles they are eproms
[10:55:28] <pcw_home> and three things with heatsinks
[10:55:36] <skunkworks> cncinator, heh - yay
[10:56:27] <pcw_home> Gold lid things maybe DACs
[10:56:58] <pcw_home> looks like 5 Axis possible (3 axis populated)
[10:57:42] <R2E4_> The empty sockets next to the heat sinks?
[10:57:57] <pcw_home> Yes and the gold chips
[10:57:59] <R2E4_> I see what you mean
[10:58:34] <Loetmichel> anyone knows were to adjust the ganty at the Chinese 604 CNC?
[10:58:41] <cncinator> when i get my hall sensor to catch up my 46 toothes - do i have a resolution of 46/turn or 92/turn?
[10:58:54] <skunkworks> 46
[10:58:56] <Loetmichel> its about 3mm out of 90° oder the 400mm mopvement
[10:59:36] <R2E4_> Don't think good things will happen when i remove the encoders from the board
[10:59:50] <cncinator> hm is there a way to count the off signal too? to raise resolution?
[10:59:51] <skunkworks> if you added another sensor for quadature.. (3 total A,B,Z) you would have 184...
[11:00:17] <cncinator> you mean a second hall sensor on the same gear?
[11:00:25] <skunkworks> yes
[11:00:44] <skunkworks> Although I don't know how well hal sensors would work for that...
[11:00:55] <skunkworks> hall
[11:01:04] <pcw_home> and that allows counting in both directions
[11:01:12] <skunkworks> you could rigid tap...
[11:01:44] <cncinator> whats that?
[11:02:53] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I am now
[11:03:33] <cradek> R2E4_: that's the motion control computer. I think the encoders are plugged into some of those little connectors. there's a separate computer in the head, where the gcode is executed etc.
[11:03:54] <skunkworks> rigid tapping? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39jFRUYRYYw
[11:03:59] <cncinator> i do have a 0-10v analog card thats controlled by step/dir for my lathe spindle
[11:05:10] <cncinator> but its disconnected since my spindle motor isnt linear and mach never know what to do with it xD
[11:05:37] <pcw_home> You need reverse to rigid tap
[11:05:53] <R2E4_> cradek:yes, thats the controller. But where I need to cut the embilical cord inbetween the amps and the fmdc board. unfortunately they are in a card cage
[11:06:13] <skunkworks> R2E4_, let the hacking begin :)
[11:06:36] <pcw_home> I hate hacking, make a interface card
[11:06:47] <skunkworks> well - sure
[11:07:37] <pcw_home> I wonder is the card is any kind of standard (almost looks like unibus)
[11:07:44] <cncinator> oh thats rigid taping, im workin on lathe - so i wont need this i guess?
[11:07:58] <skunkworks> well - that was a lathe... :)
[11:08:23] <cncinator> i werent able to watch it, i cklicked the next video and that was a m6 rigid taping on a mill
[11:08:28] <cradek> skunkworks: "What software is this running? Obviously not Mach3."
[11:08:35] <skunkworks> heh
[11:08:35] <cncinator> haha
[11:10:39] <cncinator> skunkworks, you wanted to build a tool revolver for my lathe if i remember correctly? :>
[11:11:40] <skunkworks> ;)
[11:12:24] <cncinator> but i just need 12 slots, saves you time
[11:13:11] <cncinator> or we just dismount the toolchanger from your mill and attach it to my lathe
[11:15:02] <skunkworks> you have room for 60 tool chain?
[11:15:15] <Jymmm> Or attach your lathe to his toolchanger
[11:15:54] <cncinator> guess jymmm's idea is the better one
[11:16:07] <skunkworks> cncinator, you know the mach people will just say - 'you didn't get it setup correctly - mach threads perfectly'
[11:16:35] <cradek> cncinator: you cut that with single pulse per rev?
[11:16:35] <Jymmm> skunkworks: can you use your pallet changers as additional axis'?
[11:17:00] <cncinator> ofcourse it threads perfectly, thats why 50% of my workpieces went to the garbage
[11:17:12] <cncinator> cradek, yes single pulse per rev
[11:17:33] <cradek> impressive. I'm kind of surprised that works.
[11:17:50] <skunkworks> cradek, you wrote it! ;)
[11:17:55] <cncinator> it just took skunk and basher a few hours to get it running lol
[11:18:04] <cradek> no I didn't...
[11:18:11] <skunkworks> some of it?
[11:18:23] <cradek> jmk added position interpolation to the software encoder counter
[11:18:38] <skunkworks> the step wizard isn't 100% and doesn't seem to handle 1PPR encoder...
[11:18:53] <skunkworks> cradek, ah - I forgot about that.
[11:18:55] <cradek> that's because nobody can believe it works
[11:19:14] <cradek> also I bet stepconf predates it
[11:19:31] <cncinator> it works :)
[11:19:53] <cradek> sure, as long as you don't send one of those threads to a metrology dept
[11:20:14] <cradek> but good enough for a hardware store nut
[11:20:49] <cncinator> whats another word for metrology dept?
[11:21:00] <cradek> qa
[11:21:38] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/Card_Cage.JPG
[11:21:55] <R2E4> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/controller_maybe.JPG
[11:22:08] <cradek> wow that's clean, and looks nothing like a r2e3
[11:22:22] <cradek> are those even nc400 amps?
[11:22:29] <skunkworks> that looks like it should work...
[11:22:53] <archivist> or a very easy conversion
[11:23:45] <Jymmm> skunkworks: And it has PANDUIT!
[11:24:11] <cradek> the thing's brand new
[11:24:13] <R2E4> Its in pristine condition
[11:24:25] <cradek> it was nice of them to store it for you for 30 years
[11:24:36] <R2E4> hehe
[11:24:47] <cradek> does it work?
[11:24:55] <archivist> almost museum quality
[11:24:59] <R2E4> haven't plugged it in yet.
[11:25:37] <R2E4> Must rewire the motor for 220, connect vfd, and figure out the 120 power
[11:25:57] <R2E4> Or find a 600->440 xfo
[11:26:21] <cradek> mine generated its own 120 with a little transformer
[11:26:32] <cradek> one one of the input phases
[11:26:59] <R2E4> This is using 120 tapped off tranny's
[11:27:02] <R2E4> yeah
[11:27:26] <cradek> wonder what's in the cardboard box
[11:29:29] <R2E4> I can't find anything about this setup. Maybe have to start reading the manuals.......bummer
[11:33:46] <ProxDem> quick question what is the correct way in linuxcnc to touch off on a part? (any good url on that?) I've googled a few things but I always like to ask the pros their opinion
[11:34:25] <skunkworks> physically? or in the gui?
[11:34:37] <ProxDem> in the gui
[11:34:53] <skunkworks> touch off.. (if you are using axis)
[11:34:59] <ProxDem> physicly I'm cheating with cigarette rolling paper (don't shoot me lol)
[11:35:15] <skunkworks> I use a dowel pin..
[11:35:23] <ProxDem> and in touchoff the default is correct?
[11:35:38] <skunkworks> you can set it to whatever you want
[11:36:00] <cncinator> why do you want to take me my joy cradek? :(
[11:40:41] <ProxDem> skunkworks: once one touches off if the gcode doesn't bring the z axis backup so that I can turn the spindle on before it lowers back...if it raise the z axis manualy throught mdi or axis controls...it will know to adjust back to touchoff point correct?
[11:45:43] <skunkworks> ProxDem, yes
[11:46:21] <skunkworks> (as long as your gcode uses the same coordinate system as the touchoff set.
[11:47:14] <ProxDem> hum i'll guess to make sure I'll make a fake pass 1inc higher =P
[11:48:15] <ProxDem> by coordinate system you mean? (sorry english isn't my native language)
[11:54:20] <JT-Shop> ProxDem: I have a short tutorial on G code http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[11:54:29] <JT-Shop> might be of some interest to read
[11:57:31] <ProxDem> nice thanks =)
[11:59:08] <R2E4> pcw_home; indeed a 68000 microP.
[12:00:29] <pcw_home> Looked like it (TMS9900 was another 64 pin DIP possibility but rarer)
[12:00:37] <R2E4> A DAC for each axis which converts the digital vlaue to analog signal which is sent to the NC414 controllers
[12:00:53] <skunkworks> ah nc414 amps...
[12:14:35] <pcw_home> looks like the whole controller card cage could go and then wire directly to the drive cage
[12:17:30] <pcw_home> unless they share a common backplane, but it looks like the connections from the controller to the drives is just a bunch of blue wires
[12:25:26] <R2E4> basically what I need is the encoders to go to the 7i77 board and fnd the analog drive input to the amp? Have to be able to enable the amp and do the e-stop...Is this the basic scenario?
[12:26:10] <R2E4> Do i even need the tach signals?
[12:45:12] <skunkworks> The drives need the tachs
[12:45:22] <pcw_home> Tach signals should go to drives
[12:49:17] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/139313
[12:49:21] * skunkworks hugs linuxcnc
[12:49:45] <R2E4> I see the Tachs going directly to the drives with a signal from the dli which gets fed via fmdc which the encoders input to.
[12:50:09] <skunkworks> pcw_home, do you know if they have mesa hardware working?
[12:52:53] <pcw_home> They did at one time but I think its pretty much dropped
[12:53:43] <ler_hydra> cradek, hey there, remember a few weeks ago we were briefly discussing servo drives, I was toying with the idea of yet-another-diy-servo-amp? I've done electrical cad and ordered PCBs for something I think should be pretty useful (50V,25Apk, up to 1MHz encoder signals (15krpm with 4k-line encoders) and I think I'll be able to run a servo thread internally at 1khz or so). In the end I'd like to make it useful for I/O other than the parport (such as
[12:53:43] <ler_hydra> the mesa-systems boards). Do you know of anything from the top of your head that would be good to keep in mind when developing the firmware for the device? (such as a good communication protocol)
[12:55:27] <ler_hydra> the microprocessor I'm using is pretty flexible, so regardless of design choices it's just a matter of modifying code, but I'd prefer to do it right the first time.
[12:55:45] <R2E4> The encoders go directly to the 7i77. the 7i77 feeds the amps. Thats where the loop is from what I understand, back to the pc. However, What will the amp do with encoder inputs is what I am wodering.
[12:56:18] <R2E4> meant to say, what will the amp do without encoder inputs.
[12:56:28] <pcw_home> If its does position control, step/dir probably
[12:56:30] <pcw_home> if it does velocity control, analog or sserial
[12:56:51] <fragalot> R2E4: magic
[12:56:54] <pcw_home> its it does torque, analog or sserial
[12:58:35] <R2E4> I am essentially removing encoder inputs to the amp and redirecting them to the 7i77 board. Will this have a negative impact on the servo amp? thats is what is baffeling me.
[12:58:53] <skunkworks> encoder inputs are going to the amp? are you sure?
[12:59:00] <pcw_home> The servo amp has no connection to the encoders
[12:59:32] <R2E4> encoders go to the fmdc which goes to the drive
[12:59:54] <pcw_home> (well some do but if you have tachs the encoder will not go to the drive)
[13:00:05] <skunkworks> the encoders go the fdmdc - then it does its calculation and analog goes to the drive... Most likely
[13:00:18] <pcw_home> the FMDC is being replaced by the PC
[13:03:02] <R2E4> RIGHT..... Now that makes sense
[13:03:07] <pcw_home> The FMDC ls likely running the PID loops
[13:03:09] <pcw_home> (taking encoder inputs and motion commands
[13:03:10] <pcw_home> and output-ing analog control signals to the drives)
[13:04:04] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[13:06:13] <skunkworks> R2E4, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/42799-nc414_controllers.html
[13:14:41] <IchGuckLive> why is every one replacing this bridgeport milling series
[13:15:32] <tjtr33> at the mazak install i had to tell Ray the guys were tossing a board that converted the encoder to velocity and passed this F2V onto the amp.
[13:15:37] <tjtr33> so look at the prints, and be careful, at the fest this interface had already been cut out while i was browsing the fanuc prints.
[13:15:40] <tjtr33> so, yes the amp may require analof of velocity and yes they use an encoder to get it!
[13:15:40] <skunkworks> support is expensive and linuxcnc turns circles arund it...
[13:16:51] <skunkworks> tjtr33, you can simulate a tach signal within linuxcnc and output it through and analog output to an amp...
[13:17:02] <skunkworks> works well - I am dooing it as are quite a few others.
[13:17:29] <tjtr33> yes, but dont toss till you look at the path.
[13:18:11] <skunkworks> sure
[13:19:22] <cradek> tjtr33: you are right, but I'm 99% sure this particular machine has real tach signals coming from extra brushes on the motors.
[13:20:26] <tjtr33> simple then :)
[13:20:34] <cradek> yeah, just a matter of (re)wiring
[13:21:19] <cradek> I think I remember this FMDC board actually has ADC and reads the velocity, but I don't know why
[13:21:29] <cradek> (I had component-level schematics)
[13:22:15] <cradek> I suppose we have a pid that could be improved by doing that
[13:22:24] <pcw_home> If the motors have tachs its very likely to not have encoder F-Vs
[13:22:26] <cradek> if their servo cycle was super slow (and I bet it was) it might have helped
[13:22:42] <tjtr33> pcw_home, yeh, doesnt jive
[13:22:43] <cradek> I agree, pcw_home
[13:23:10] <cradek> the thing might have a 100Hz servo cycle
[13:23:41] <tjtr33> the big yellow print books had flow diagrams as well as bock diagrams
[13:23:48] <tjtr33> newsprint
[13:24:48] <tjtr33> oh, ^^^ Fanuc
[13:25:23] <R2E4> The fmdc feeds the tach signal via DLI board
[13:25:48] <R2E4> also
[13:27:45] <R2E4> IchGuckLive: you have one?
[13:29:08] <tjtr33> R2E4 any prints on the web?
[13:29:33] <R2E4> I have all the prints and manuals.
[13:29:49] <R2E4> and schematics, general block diagrams etc...
[13:29:53] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: a mill like this no i only got real tiny ones or reaaaly big ones
[13:33:33] <R2E4> There is alot of logic coming fromt he fmdc, which is why I am disparrant to just diconnect it. leave the motors to the drives, the tach signal also, but the tach signal has input fromt he fmdc via dli board. (don't knwo what that is doing), then i can remove the signal fom the fmdc going into the drive for the encoders and there is one other input I would have to remove which is the fault latch., then connect encoders to 7i77 and 7i77 to drive.
[13:35:08] <pcw_home> Tach to FMDC might be additional info for their PID loop or sanity checking
[13:37:00] <R2E4> The writeups in these maintenance manuals blow......Doesn't explain anything, just tells you what you can see....hehe
[13:38:13] <ProxDem> JT-Shop: nice info
[13:38:30] <cradek> on mine it would randomly halt and the display would tell me to re-home. you could only see the error by hooking up to an rs422 serial port on the FMDC and typing magic things
[13:39:09] <cradek> it all made perfect sense for 1983
[13:39:15] <tjtr33> looks up xyzzy in bass manual
[13:40:16] <R2E4> cradek: acckkk! that sounds like something straight out of the 80's.
[13:41:40] <ProxDem> anygood free speed/feed calculators?
[13:42:31] <archivist> a spreadsheet
[13:43:15] <archivist> but seriously the calcs are simple but very material and tool dependent
[13:43:43] <ProxDem> yeah single/dual/triple flute what size what type of material...what you are cutting etc etc
[13:44:24] <archivist> often the tooling manufacturers will give guides for their tooling
[13:44:33] <ProxDem> I'm trying to level a piece of finished plywood obviously my first cut was 2 deep...lots of chatter (the thing was bowed so were it wasn't 2 deep it was fine)
[13:44:53] <ProxDem> archivist: this is home router tooling...and manufacturer was way 2 cheap to have it on their website =(
[13:45:49] <ProxDem> can't even find proper chip load
[13:45:58] <archivist> some you have to learn by experience, and you also need to take into account your clamping and machine quality
[13:46:13] <ProxDem> clamping was ok...machine quality is shit! lol
[13:46:21] <IchGuckLive> depends also on wood Water level
[13:46:41] <ProxDem> so I'm thinking way less deep cuts...but would like to figure out feeds and speed maybe a bit more
[13:46:56] <ProxDem> IchGuckLive: Unfortunetly I misplaced my stick in humidity meter
[13:47:16] <archivist> variable thickness can be too high chip load flute filled and the spindle lifting due to flexible machine
[13:47:21] <IchGuckLive> bad and hard plywood !
[13:47:28] <ProxDem> but appears pretty dry...althought since it was arched/bowed it did end up passing throught a nasty layer of glue at one point
[13:47:45] <IchGuckLive> i know this
[13:47:53] <ProxDem> archivist: machine definetly is flexible lol
[13:47:57] <IchGuckLive> and suddenly you loos a quater of your part
[13:48:11] <archivist> any built in stress can be released during the cut allowing the material to bow
[13:48:17] <ProxDem> well i didn't lose anything but it did get circlish things in a straight line lol
[13:48:42] <archivist> reduce the bite try again, learn a bit
[13:48:57] <Tom_itx> or break a bit
[13:49:00] <ProxDem> any good place to read up on speed/feed calculation for a beginner?
[13:49:19] <Tom_itx> yup
[13:49:21] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: yeah I'd much like to avoid that...as the homemade protection ain't very good =P
[13:49:28] <archivist> wood is less calculatable
[13:49:48] <Tom_itx> ProxDem, the links at the top of this page http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[13:49:54] <ProxDem> archivist: I understand it's inconsistencies like knots and humidity level and how it bows etc
[13:50:07] <archivist> be careful about which way you are cutting as the grain may grab
[13:50:10] <IchGuckLive> ProxDem: where are you from in the world
[13:50:12] <L84Supper> wood has a wide range of properties, plus you have glue in yours so it's a hybrid material. Even a calculator would give you a range of settings since the material properties will change based on the type and number of laminates, glue used, amount of water and temp
[13:50:21] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: well damn i've been to your page before lol
[13:50:39] <ProxDem> IchGuckLive: canada
[13:50:56] <R2E4> where in canada?
[13:50:58] <IchGuckLive> im in germany
[13:51:10] <ProxDem> L84Supper: that's what I figured but I'm all new to this so I'm trying to read up alot and get info from the pros =)
[13:51:11] <IchGuckLive> lots of canadians here B)
[13:51:16] <ProxDem> R2E4: near montreal!
[13:51:58] <R2E4> ProxDem: off the island montreal in Repentigny. Montreal is 15minutes
[13:53:04] <ProxDem> well you're about hum i'd say 1hour or more from me =)
[13:54:56] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: thanks I'll play with that =)
[13:55:14] <ProxDem> I found a few others but this one seems nicer
[13:56:01] <Tom_itx> that's why i marked them
[13:57:14] <ProxDem> archivist: hadn't read your comment before
[13:57:33] <ProxDem> archivist: in plywood that's gonna suck as laminated boards interchange every layer
[13:58:29] <ProxDem> mind you i'm never attacking the end grain directly
[13:58:35] <R2E4> Quebec or Ontario?
[13:58:49] <ProxDem> quebec
[13:59:16] <R2E4> And would you happen to have an R2E4 bridgeport converted to linuxCNC with 5i25/7i77?
[13:59:16] <ProxDem> I think the closest most people know is Pointe-Clair or Dorval or DDO
[13:59:19] <R2E4> hehe
[13:59:33] <ProxDem> I would not =)
[13:59:47] <R2E4> AH, I work in St-Laurent so probably real close.
[14:00:09] <ProxDem> R2E4: hard to make the converter? as the 5i25 or 7i77 I would buy seems kinda time consuming to make that
[14:00:32] <ProxDem> not sure if alot of electronics is involved or if it's just alot of wiring
[14:01:48] <R2E4> I don't know at this point. The encoders wont be a problem nor the drive signals, depends on what the amp needs full-filling.
[14:02:26] <ProxDem> wow bowed ain't the word hahaha begining of cut depth... 0.099 (had it set to .100 but considering it's home made and I touched off with rolling paper not 2 shaby)
[14:02:44] <ProxDem> middle part about 0.190....that's where it chattered like crazy
[14:02:50] <R2E4> not to mention creating limits, estop and all the logic stuff cause that was done in the EAF and fmdc.
[14:03:37] <ProxDem> so i think that was way 2 deep for my cutter with my feed and speed lol
[14:06:45] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: didn't dyndns give the port forwarding option at some point? or was that only in the paid version?
[14:07:04] <ProxDem> Tom_itx: As I'm guessing your ISP is blocking any incomming traffic on port 80
[14:10:26] <archivist> ProxDem, and nice sharp cutters will reduce the loading
[14:10:57] <ProxDem> well it was brand new
[14:11:09] <ProxDem> =P
[14:11:43] <ProxDem> http://www.amazon.ca/Freud-75-102-4-Inch-Double-Flute-Spiral/dp/B00004T7JZ
[14:12:45] <R2E4> I use those and hate them. well the down spiral ones. burn out fast and vibrate bad.
[14:13:03] <R2E4> I think 104's or something like that.
[14:13:18] <ProxDem> well this one vibrated hella bad on me =(
[14:13:24] <ProxDem> but it's what I have todo the job right now
[14:13:40] <R2E4> What are you cutting?
[14:14:15] <ProxDem> it's a small plywood I'm just trying to level it as it's the "Bed"
[14:15:11] <ProxDem> so needs to plunge and do a good job at chip removing
[14:15:24] <ProxDem> I thought it would be ok...but It might still be and my settings are just horrible
[14:15:45] <R2E4> how far down did you go and what speed?
[14:16:55] <ProxDem> well like I said before the initial entry point was 0.099 and at somepoint in the warp it reaches 0.190...as for speed I was messing with the router as the noise didn't seem right
[14:16:59] <ProxDem> speed let me check
[14:17:58] <ProxDem> plung was at 10ipm and feed at 18ipm...starting rpm where it plunged and did a few inches ok would be the lowest the bosch colt goes down 2
[14:18:27] <ProxDem> which should be about 16,000rpm
[14:18:41] <ProxDem> but I don't have a tachometre handy
[14:18:51] <archivist> I would be grabbing the spindle (while off and mid x y travel) to see how flexible the machine is
[14:18:53] <R2E4> rpm? you want fastest speed.
[14:19:05] <ProxDem> archivist: very =P
[14:19:15] <ProxDem> R2E4: seemed to chatter alot at fast speeds
[14:19:18] <archivist> light cuts then
[14:19:34] <ProxDem> archivist: that's what I was thinking but obviously didn't account for the bow =(
[14:19:36] <R2E4> .09 is a light cut in plywood....
[14:19:42] <ProxDem> which almost doubled the cut
[14:19:54] <ProxDem> at .09 it seemed ok
[14:20:01] <ProxDem> R2E4: so you recommend 30,000rpm?
[14:20:13] <R2E4> Your losing z steps if it went down to .190 before you stoped it
[14:20:28] <ProxDem> R2E4: no there is a huge bow
[14:20:59] <ProxDem> I had already probed it with a makeshift probe and calculated about .09 of bow in total but just forgot to factor it in =( shame on me
[14:21:02] <R2E4> huge bow in what?
[14:21:11] <ProxDem> the makeshift "Bed"
[14:21:16] <R2E4> ah
[14:21:19] <ProxDem> that I'm trying to level lol
[14:21:27] <ProxDem> well tried as I took a break
[14:21:39] <ProxDem> scared the crap out of me Thought the bit was gonna break and go flying
[14:21:46] <ProxDem> and I don't much feel like going to the hospital =P
[14:22:02] <R2E4> I've broke a few of thoise bits. .25 bits break easy in wood
[14:22:25] <ProxDem> R2E4: well I'm sure you have adequate protection...i on the other hand....not really
[14:23:04] <R2E4> When I suface level my router I do it at 26 or 28,000 rpm with a .75 cutiing at .25 dodwn at 70ipm.
[14:23:34] <R2E4> The broken parts of the bit doesnt go flying. it sticks in the wood
[14:23:50] <ProxDem> R2E4: I don't have you're experience so I was kind scared
[14:23:55] <ProxDem> hit my makeshift E-stop
[14:23:56] <R2E4> .75 diameter bit
[14:24:10] <R2E4> hehe, done that many times......
[14:24:47] <andypugh> So, what's wrong here then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CsaPcHpmos&feature=share&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[14:24:58] <ProxDem> I'm just trying to learn without killing myself lol and then maybe if everything is on my side will invest in a real machine or build something better lol
[14:25:15] <R2E4> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadI53SivOg theres my router table, I now have a bosch router in it as I went through two hitachis mv12c's.
[14:25:43] <archivist> andypugh, sounds a bit mechanical
[14:26:09] <ProxDem> sounds like your anti-backlash is screwed on one side =P or table is hitting something and jumping up and down
[14:26:43] <andypugh> I don't have any backlash comp, and twirling by hand feels identical both ways.
[14:27:13] <ProxDem> R2E4: much nicer then mine lol
[14:27:25] <archivist> too regular to be tuning I think
[14:27:27] <ProxDem> R2E4: yours probably cost alot more then mine 2 =P
[14:27:44] <R2E4> I built mine and it cost 2500.00 in parts,
[14:28:04] <archivist> andypugh, a thrust bearing?
[14:28:14] <ProxDem> R2E4: I built mine 2...don't remember how much I put in parts
[14:28:57] <andypugh> archivist: I can't help feeling that anything mechanical would show up when twirling by hand.
[14:29:28] <archivist> depends how sensitive your pinkies are
[14:29:46] <andypugh> pcw_home: Can you suggest a way to find "motor zero" with an 8i20?
[14:32:04] <ProxDem> R2E4: where/what plans are that cnc from?
[14:33:07] <JT-Shop> ProxDem: thanks
[14:33:47] <R2E4> hybrid, from a couple different sets, the gantry is joes 4x4 the base and table is my doing
[14:35:07] <ProxDem> R2E4: did you get the extruded alum localy or 8020?
[14:35:20] <tjtr33> andypugh, any chance of swapping amps?
[14:36:36] <ProxDem> R2E4: you've broken alot of these bits and they've never gone FLYING? as like me you don't seem to have any protection what so ever lol
[14:37:46] <R2E4> I got it from rpt motion in pointe claire
[14:37:53] <R2E4> They are an 8020 dealer
[14:38:23] <ProxDem> yeah I've looked them up was wondering if they deliver or if you have to pickup localy
[14:38:27] <R2E4> I'm telling you , they dont fly they stick in the wood.
[14:38:47] <ProxDem> R2E4: good to know that'll be less scary next time =P
[14:38:55] <R2E4> They would probably deliver via courier but woulkd charge. I allways pick mine up
[14:39:20] <ProxDem> R2E4: ever broken a bit that went flying?
[14:40:06] <R2E4> nope. I broke a .5" end mill in 2" piece of ash.
[14:40:29] <archivist> get your clamping wrong and the work comes flying out
[14:40:37] <R2E4> the wood absorbs it cause it is so soft.
[14:41:23] <ProxDem> thanks for all the insights guys =) very appreciated
[14:41:28] <R2E4> well, you need to clamp your stuff right, I have had that happen, not clamped properly, or was in a hurry and kabam!
[14:42:16] <R2E4> Too often you think its wood and dont treat it like metal, and that can come back to haunt you.
[14:44:00] <ProxDem> well seeing as it was what I'm using to be a makeshift bed
[14:44:08] <ProxDem> it had 4 screws holding it in =P
[14:45:14] <R2E4> Hopefully out of the path of the bit.
[14:45:35] <R2E4> I've hit screws before also.
[14:46:45] <PCW> andypugh the 'q' mode works fine for me
[14:47:05] <PCW> though if you have a load you may need full current
[14:47:16] <R2E4> Here's my new machines that need owrk....:-) http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/r2e4-1.jpg http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/r2e4-2.jpg http://www.irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/R2E4/r2e4-3.jpg
[14:47:44] <andypugh> PCW: I am trying to work out where Resolver-Zero is compared to Motor-Zero.
[14:48:24] <ProxDem> R2E4: the machine cannot physically go to the screws lol
[14:48:36] <andypugh> So, I think I need to know what combination of rotor angle and current settings puts an 8i20 into U+ V- W-
[14:48:56] <ProxDem> R2E4: saw it before...that's damn nice
[14:49:15] <andypugh> Positive amps and -.25 angle?
[14:49:23] <PCW> you could decouple the motor, use q mode and read the resolver when current is applied
[14:50:00] <PCW> But you can only apply Q so the angle will be off by 90 degrees
[14:50:01] <andypugh> I am using a mode.
[14:50:15] <andypugh> "a" mode.
[14:50:45] <PCW> oh Absolute mode?
[14:51:00] <andypugh> But the bldc can be ignored if I just setp the 8i20 angle and current
[14:51:10] <andypugh> Yes, absolute mode.
[14:52:25] <andypugh> OK, I am off back out to apply a fixed current in each direction and see what happens.
[14:52:46] <PCW> so 0 resolver is not 0 rotor? i would have expected that (though sine/cos swap on resolver would be off by 90 degrees)
[14:53:09] <andypugh> If the speeds are different then I know it is either electrical or mechanical or software. Wait, I already discounted pixies!
[14:53:18] <ProxDem> R2E4: you run your own shop?
[14:53:54] <andypugh> PCW: One of the two resolver zeros might be one of the three x 3 motor zeros ;-)
[14:56:50] <R2E4> Yes, I moved out of my garage into a rented garage. Myself and a young kid are building a company. We are doing contracts with wood, plastic and phonelic. We are going to get into small metal pieces, as we have someone that will feed us contracts.
[14:57:16] <R2E4> Your welcome to come see it anytime, just let me know.
[14:57:35] <PCW> The resolver has a different number of poles than the motor? that would be odd
[14:58:09] <tjtr33> see if the posn feedback is constant in both dirs with fixed velocity (outside of posn ctrl loop)
[14:59:20] <ProxDem> R2E4: kewl
[15:08:37] <ProxDem> R2E4_AWY: when you get back I might have the weirdest thing to ask you!
[15:21:08] <tjtr33> sometimes i chuck a handdrill onto end of screw to run it back and forth, check tg, check encoder, no nc involved, no amp involved
[15:22:22] <tjtr33> oh, and check 'smooth' too
[15:48:15] <gene77> I'm haveing fun, making a 2nd allen wrench, hopefuuly to more precision than yesterdays, which turned out to be about 3 thou undersized on one flat.
[15:49:18] <gene77> so today, all table moves to the same direction, and reworked the code to use the top of the wheel because my lifts are more accurate than my drops on this toy.
[16:02:00] <andypugh> PCW: Yes, it's a single-turn resolver and a 6-pole motor
[16:02:34] <PCW> That's strange
[16:03:52] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/haO5ZJq-Y3c
[16:05:11] <andypugh> I fiddled about with encoder offsets at very low currents until it worked. symmetrically. The problem is that it now runs the wrong direction :-)
[16:08:51] <andypugh> I think I might need to make everything negative, except the encoder-offset which probably needs to be the inverse of the current value.
[16:11:13] <andypugh> But it was getting cold in there, I am just happy that it seems to be possible to get it working properly.
[16:12:03] <mrsun> http://www.sorotec.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p1577_drehachse-v90-mit-kreuzrollenlager-----100mm.html/ like found!
[16:13:49] <andypugh> Hmm, just found a linked video which seems to suggest that Hoss is using LinuxCNC now.
[16:26:43] <ProxDem> R2E4:wb
[16:45:07] <skunkworks> andypugh: so - it was resolver->motor alignment issue? (
[16:45:15] <andypugh> Yes.
[16:45:18] <skunkworks> neat
[16:46:05] <Tom_itx> yay, the Viton seal appears to have worked
[16:46:11] <skunkworks> hoss had recently tested linuxcnc.. I don't know how much he is using it...
[16:46:32] <Tom_itx> $.50 opposed to the $25 dealer part
[16:46:44] <andypugh> Cradek set me off on the right track. I set up a mux4 to send the same fixed current in two directions. It then became obvious that one way was very slow and one was very fast. The fast direction was the jerky one, simply very badly tuned. The slow one was too sedate to need any tune. :-)
[16:55:26] <JT-Shop> well the trunk is back on... now for the spyder web of wires under the seat
[16:58:35] <mrsun> http://youtu.be/cQHBzCAmsqE?t=5m35s people say cast iron is bad for machines, then this guy should be a nightmare ... look what he does with the neatly piled cast iron shavings at the end there, one would think a vacuum cleaner but :P
[17:01:03] <rob_h> so is machining magnesium but we still do it :)
[17:01:34] <andypugh> Machining sodium, with water coolant :-)
[17:01:38] <rob_h> lo
[17:01:52] <rob_h> guess u want a nice dry airline too
[17:02:18] <KimK> When I do a "man hal" and scroll to the bottom, it says, "see also intro(3rtapi)". How do I get it to show intro(3rtapi)?
[17:02:49] <rob_h> no body fancy this machine then, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181102435531?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[17:05:54] <andypugh> I do, but I don't have the cash. And I don't think it would fit in my house. (I might be better trying to fit my house into it).
[17:06:42] <rob_h> its quite a steel at that price quite tempting
[17:08:56] <andypugh> I don't actually need a CNC mill, so can't really justify it.
[17:09:46] <rob_h> let alown needing twin pallet then
[17:10:32] <rob_h> we just picked up a twin turret 4 axis hardinge with power tooling, so thats my next retrofit
[17:16:43] <tjtr33> could someone try this from a terminal in 12.04? just run firefox i suspect it will fail. this kills the ability to access xilinx's tutorial
[17:21:04] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:23:55] <Tom_itx> tjtr33, tutorial for what?
[17:24:46] <tjtr33> the tutorial links on the menu bar, for xilinx fpga programming
[17:25:14] <tjtr33> could you try the xterm test?
[17:25:30] <tjtr33> just type in firefox on a 12.04 system
[17:25:35] <tjtr33> thx
[17:26:47] <gene77> crazy, it was a wurlitzer. I just broke 50 thou off the end of a piece of carbide while measure it with a 6" digital caliper. WTF, bad carbide?
[17:27:12] <andypugh> Sounds like it.
[17:27:29] <andypugh> Unless you were especially rough with the caliper :-)
[17:28:28] <gene77> that piece looked like it was TiaN coated too. no wonder i broke it so easy milling
[17:30:22] <gene77> I was finger pinching the jaws closed on it while wiggling it for min reading, thetable stops where the flats are up or down 30 from level
[17:31:20] <gene77> might have had 5 pounds of pinch force on it
[17:32:51] <cradek> KimK: man 3rtapi intro
[17:33:38] <cradek> gene77: what diameter were you measuring? carbide is really brittle.
[17:33:51] <gene77> about .050
[17:33:59] <gene77> inches that is
[17:35:07] <gene77> I am making yet another .035" allen wrench, to install 0-80 screws with
[17:35:09] <cradek> that would be extremely easy to break that way, especially if the shank is held in something
[17:35:34] <cradek> carbide is a very wrong material to make a tiny allen wrench out of
[17:35:49] <gene77> a 3 jaw on my 4" rotary table
[17:36:00] <gene77> pretty solid IOW.
[17:36:22] <gene77> Oh, edycate me?
[17:36:30] <cradek> do you have a .050 allen wrench? grind that down a bit on one end and call it good
[17:36:34] <ProxDem> hss?
[17:37:16] <andypugh> Hmm, I had mised that he was making a wrench. I thought he was making a broach.
[17:37:24] <gene77> Only have one of those, looks pretty cheap though
[17:37:25] <cradek> or use any existing allen wrench you have
[17:37:47] <cradek> or an old phillips screwdriver with a web that looks wide enough
[17:38:04] <cradek> just use something that was originally for screwing, not cutting
[17:39:30] <cradek> or any old small screwdriver, just attack it on the bench grinder and cut off the original end?
[17:40:48] <gene77> I just found one of those 'jewelers' screwdrivers, one of those with the little cgome palm knob on the end, iirc those were decent steel.
[17:41:02] <gene77> I just found one of those 'jewelers' screwdrivers, one of those with the little chrome palm knob on the end, iirc those were decent steel.
[17:41:23] <cradek> that's a good candidate if it starts over .060 or whatever your max diameter is
[17:41:45] <cradek> you're "milling" with a grinding wheel I assume?
[17:42:52] <cradek> call me crazy but I'd just try freehanding it on the bench grinder
[17:43:33] <cradek> especially if you can stick the screwdriver through a nut and tape it together, to give you flats to work from
[17:43:49] <andypugh> I have tried grinding hexes several times. And I have failed an equal number of times.
[17:43:54] <cradek> heh
[17:44:29] <cradek> I'd probably try for a tapered hex that would bind in the screwhead. that way you can tweak the diameter by grinding the tip off
[17:44:47] <cradek> putting a nut on it, to place against the grinder table, seems important to me
[17:45:11] <cradek> note I haven't ever tried this and andy has :-)
[17:46:10] <cradek> I've got a 5c hex collet block too I guess...
[17:46:45] <ProxDem> I've seen people put a drill based grinding wheel in a mill and do it that way...seems kinda weird todo it like that but i guess to each their own
[17:47:02] <ProxDem> maybe you could do it with a fly cutter?
[17:47:19] <cradek> no way, not .035"
[17:47:27] <ProxDem> oh .035 missed that part
[17:47:35] <cradek> a well centered and dressed grinding wheel is the only way
[17:48:23] <cradek> a surface grinder and a collet block would make it easy...
[17:49:54] <andypugh> Lathe + HAL component :-)
[17:51:44] <PCW> whetstone
[17:52:11] <skunkworks> i have done it that way... used a nut to grind a hex
[17:52:41] <cradek> I'm sure gene77 is pleased that we all think this'd be easy!
[17:55:17] <andypugh> I think I would be buying the bit :-)
[17:57:33] <andypugh> Ah, no need, I already have one (well, 0.9mm)
[18:01:50] <Tom_itx> gene77 why are you going to so much trouble making a wrench?
[18:05:06] <andypugh> So, I was watching a Keith Fenner video on that YouTube, and thought "That looks like a Colchester lathe, but he's American". Google and it turns out to be a Clausing/Colchester.
[18:09:33] <gene77> because the only one I can buy is 200 miles and a week away
[18:11:28] <KimK> cradek: Thanks! (I'm just getting back to that now, after a delay)
[18:12:11] <gene77> I am in Weston WV, pop 5000, nearly 200 miles so of Pitts, and 100 miles north of charleston WV. Might as well be in Ulan Bator
[18:12:15] <andypugh> gene77: My 0.9 bit came in a set of precision 1/8 hex bits.
[18:13:50] <gene77> Thats ok Andy, but I already have 40 bucks & vat in new ones that didn't go small enough in the last 4 days, screw it, make it. :)
[18:14:25] <andypugh> Did you check the metric ones?
[18:15:13] <gene77> Besides, isn't that what dremel diamond wheels in a milling machine with a rotary table for?, yes, smallest in that kit was 1.27mm
[18:15:34] <andypugh> That sounds rather Imperial :-0
[18:16:09] <gene77> Probably. 0-80 flat head screws
[18:17:19] <gene77> I did find that my tightened up table could still be run at a reasonable speed if I took the brass brake screw out & pumped about 20 pumps worth of vactra in it.
[18:19:38] <gene77> This steel is dragging a burr on the end, about a thou high, so I'll have to run the spindle in reverse for the last few passes.
[18:23:44] <Tom_itx> i could send you one in a letter
[18:24:03] <Tom_itx> i get em from my surplus guy
[18:29:01] <tjtr33> dang firefox fails after sourcing the xilinx env (. ./settigns.sh ) , is frkn fine from another terminal, so the env script screws it up
[18:48:50] <tjtr33> edit the default browser to dillo, bang! millisecs to to correct web page tutorial
[18:49:04] <tjtr33> 12.04 and unity suck
[19:44:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=602_1363631381
[19:48:38] <L84Supper> what, no finger guard!
[19:51:27] <Valen> that looks like the most usefull "maker" product I've seen ;->
[19:53:34] <L84Supper> http://www.gizmosphere.org/buy/ AMD APU board with coreboot and JTAG tools
[19:55:48] <syyl_> at least it looks robust, Valen :D
[19:56:06] <syyl_> not like all that make-3d-print-stuff
[19:56:11] <Valen> i spose its made out of metal at least
[19:57:12] <L84Supper> yikes, most of the FFF printer stuff is awful
[19:57:26] <syyl_> thank you
[19:57:34] <L84Supper> and makes awful prints
[19:57:34] <syyl_> i thought i was the only one with that opinion
[19:57:43] <L84Supper> it's all hype
[19:57:48] <syyl_> \o/
[19:58:26] <L84Supper> SLA and inkjet do a much better job, just try tell that to the repraper folks
[19:58:49] <syyl_> in my mind, the reprap guys are like hippies ;)
[19:59:06] <Valen> reprap is the worst of the extruder printers
[19:59:11] <syyl_> but what do i know
[19:59:30] <Valen> some of them can actually make usefull parts
[19:59:39] <Valen> for prototypes ;->
[19:59:55] <syyl_> i am in the prototyping industrie..
[19:59:56] <L84Supper> like, most proudly wear it, like bell bottoms
[20:00:06] <syyl_> we would never think about such a thing :D
[20:00:23] <Valen> it depends what you want stuff for
[20:00:41] <Valen> I can see it being helpfull to us to make sure parts are the right size before cutting metal
[20:01:06] <L84Supper> SLA is faster. lower cost and better res
[20:01:11] <syyl_> we do prototyping stuff for electrical appliances like circuit breakers or RCDS
[20:01:28] <syyl_> and some gagemaking for our production
[20:01:39] <syyl_> we went the traditional way and bought a cnc-mill ;)
[20:02:19] <syyl_> parts that fall out of it have a good finish, are accurate and strong (within the limits of the material)
[20:03:54] <Connor> okay working with PeteFromTN on his stuff.. I've never done anything with PID.. Where do we need to start with the PID settings in PncConf File ?
[20:12:21] <skunkworks> Connor: what are the amps set to?
[20:12:33] <Connor> ??
[20:12:47] <skunkworks> velocity? current? Voltage?
[20:12:55] <Connor> Ahh.. Velocity(Speed)
[20:13:03] <skunkworks> have they been tuned?
[20:13:20] <skunkworks> (you want to tune the amps first)
[20:13:23] <Connor> Don't think so.. I think it's fresh out of the box.
[20:13:56] <skunkworks> I would start there. The amps need to be tuned for velocity before you can even try to tune the position.
[20:14:42] <skunkworks> I would guess there is software - and maybe some easy tuning program?
[20:14:48] <Connor> okay.. He's saying they're pre-tuned..
[20:14:53] <skunkworks> oh
[20:15:27] <skunkworks> I would think you would have to tune them for your machine.. (mass and screw gain and all) but I am not an expert....
[20:28:28] <skunkworks> anyway - I think you could start by adding a bit of P until you start to get a bit of an oscillation.. Then add D to dappen.. rinse - repeat
[20:28:41] <Connor> getting follow errors..
[20:28:46] <Connor> motor is engaged..
[20:28:51] <Connor> but, no movement.
[20:29:23] <skunkworks> increase the following error a bit - like .5 inches or so. (make sure you are in the middle of travel)
[20:29:37] <Connor> not even hooked up to screws yet..
[20:30:01] <skunkworks> oh - tuning without a load may be hard.. but you can try. Increase the following error and seee.
[20:30:02] <Connor> have follow error set to .1000 ATM and the motor isn't moveing any at all.
[20:30:10] <skunkworks> oh
[20:32:46] <skunkworks> hmm. sounds like maybe some sort of configuration error?
[20:33:08] <skunkworks> you should get some sort of movement... bad or good ;)
[20:34:55] <skunkworks> if you move the servo by hand - does the numbers change in linuxcnc?
[20:35:02] <Connor> yes
[20:35:05] <skunkworks> oh - good
[20:35:17] <jdh> the motors move freely?
[20:35:17] <skunkworks> 1/2 way there...
[20:35:32] <Connor> jdh: Only when machine is off.
[20:35:41] <Connor> when on, motors are engaed.
[20:36:23] <skunkworks> Connor: engaged? you cannot move them at all?
[20:36:39] <Connor> yes. like they're in holding mosition.
[20:37:20] <skunkworks> Are you sure they are in velocity mode? Maybe I don't know how the new amps act - but my velocity mode amps - I can slowly turn (there is drag)
[20:37:47] <jdh> are these new, or the ones that came with the mill?
[20:37:52] <skunkworks> new ones
[20:38:32] <Connor> No drag, complete locked.
[20:39:25] <skunkworks> That is odd. (to me anyway)
[20:39:28] <tjtr33> got brake?
[20:39:40] <skunkworks> oh - good question
[20:39:40] <Connor> not on this axis
[20:39:44] <skunkworks> oh - darn
[20:39:46] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:39:53] <tjtr33> :(
[20:39:59] <skunkworks> what amps are these?
[20:40:20] <Connor> TECO
[20:40:24] <Connor> TSTA-30's
[20:40:27] <skunkworks> (is there a online manual somewhere)
[20:40:47] <Connor> http://www.machmotion.com/manuals/TED/TSTAUserManual.pdf
[20:41:19] <tjtr33> really locked? no give at all? watch dro
[20:42:56] <tjtr33> hey be careful if it IS gain holding posn, and encoder or tg is bwd , a hard push could run away
[20:45:15] <r00t4rd3d> got a new z axis cut today :D
[20:45:42] <skunkworks> so - you are running the analog into pin 26 and 29?
[20:46:26] <Connor> Yes 26 is 10v and 29 is gnd to the 7i77
[20:50:11] <skunkworks> hm - looks like there is a servo lock mode when commanded is 0v.. If it is enabled..
[20:50:14] <tjtr33> error codes on display? ( these are same as automation direct same factory in tw)
[20:50:31] <tjtr33> also is status ^^^
[20:50:59] <tjtr33> 'hold' ?
[20:51:36] <skunkworks> Connor: are you good with halscope?
[20:55:04] <Connor> I think the driver is in potion mode instead of speed mode.. havin him change it now..
[20:56:08] <skunkworks> Connor: oh - good. I think the servo lock mode requires an external input.. SO I don't think it should be locked rotor..
[20:58:03] <skunkworks> so - Cn001 should be set to '1' ?
[20:58:10] <Connor> yes
[20:58:36] <skunkworks> what was it set to?
[20:58:41] <Connor> 2
[20:58:51] <skunkworks> ah
[21:05:32] * skunkworks waits for the smoke to clear... ;)
[21:06:07] <Connor> haha.. Having hard time making it change to mode 2..
[21:06:18] <Connor> Pressing enter for 2 seconds on cn001 does nothing
[21:06:26] <r00t4rd3d> say please
[21:07:44] <tjtr33> they were weird, once we got it to accept commands we ran thru 7x7 axis amps and tried not to think, just tried to go thru same motions
[22:16:22] <skunkworks> Connor: Yay http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/25790-petes-cincinatti-arrow-500-retrofit?start=40
[22:45:11] <AR_> lol
[22:45:12] <AR_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/111029968373
[22:45:52] <AR_> >people who dont know indicator tips adjust
[22:47:14] <r00t4rd3d> bestest
[23:33:58] <s1dev> !hoggy