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[00:57:47] <uw> so i'm tuning a door bell...anyone know what frequency they ring at? the hi and low freqs for the "bing...bong..."
[00:58:04] <uw> i made the 2 chimes but they dont sound right
[03:12:59] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:14:35] <Jymmm> I still can't figure out how you show up EXACTLY the same time (±60s)
[03:21:14] <DJ9DJ> hihi
[03:21:37] <DJ9DJ> good morning Jymmm :)
[03:24:56] <Jymmm> Morning Mr DJ9DJ
[03:29:09] <Loetmichel> moin
[03:29:15] <DJ9DJ> morning Loetmichel
[03:29:21] <Loetmichel> aeh mornin'
[03:58:04] <mrsun> loctite - when you are not a real machinist!
[03:58:10] <mrsun> should be a slogan for them ;)
[03:58:26] <mrsun> "oh i cant do pressfits ... LOCTITE!!!" :P
[03:58:45] <Jymmm> it's for THREADS, not press fit
[03:58:55] <mrsun> Jymmm, cylindrical locks etc. . they got it all
[03:58:58] <mrsun> bearing locking
[03:59:11] <DJ9DJ> jo, there is one loctite for each 'connection' ;)
[03:59:17] <mrsun> mm
[04:01:39] <mrsun> nah nothing wrong with loctite tho in some applications i dont know if i would trust that kind of bond =)
[06:36:16] <Loetmichel> oh shi* ... there goes my salary of this month... just came back from the car garage: both rear axle bearings are done for... AND the a/c-compressor belt is in shreds... -> new tension roll (80 eur) or new compressor(800 eur)... that sums up to ~1400 eur... :-(
[06:37:39] <fomox> are there any open source cnc mill plans? I got access to one but I want to make my own from alu :P
[06:49:58] <jthornton> might find some router plans...
[06:50:10] <jthornton> mills are cast iron
[06:50:22] <fomox> whats the difference?
[06:50:56] <jthornton> cast iron is rigid
[06:51:02] <jthornton> and dense
[06:51:10] <jthornton> kinda like me :)
[06:53:32] <DJ9DJ> lol :D
[06:55:01] <archivist> fomox, what are you intending to cut on the machine
[06:55:29] <fomox> hehe
[06:55:31] <fomox> Im not sure
[06:55:40] <fomox> aluminium if possible
[06:55:51] <fomox> What are the difference on a router and mill?
[06:56:10] <archivist> strength and rigidity
[06:56:40] <archivist> router has high speed spindle and a very light cut
[06:57:08] <fomox> ah
[06:57:13] <archivist> mill lower speed spindle and takes a mans bite out of the metal
[06:57:41] <jthornton> :0
[06:58:10] <archivist> machine flexing causes poor finish, noise and tool breakages
[06:59:31] <archivist> but.... part of my mill is aluminium
[07:00:53] <fomox> hmm, I can use steel
[07:01:01] <fomox> it wont really be a problem
[07:01:05] <fomox> but I would love it if I could cut alu
[07:01:42] <archivist> rigidity comes from the mechanical design more than the material it is made of probably
[07:02:36] <fomox> hmm
[07:04:30] <fomox> do you know of any plans?
[07:04:45] <fomox> preferably open source but I am willing to pay something for them if I have to
[07:07:08] <archivist> I have seen stuff I would use as examples of what not to do, but not kept a list
[07:07:28] <fomox> hehe
[07:08:38] <archivist> should have kept a link to the gate used as a gantry though
[07:09:18] <fomox> hehe
[07:10:53] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[07:17:21] <archivist> retro fitting an old commercial mill could be best/cheapest for metal cutting
[07:29:07] <fomox> I wont have space for that
[07:29:08] <fomox> I think
[07:29:44] <fomox> I need something that got a weight of max 40kg
[07:31:48] <Err> that's not very much mass for a machine tool - what do you plan to do with it?
[07:37:55] <fomox> hehe
[07:37:59] <fomox> Dont really know
[07:38:03] <fomox> cut alu and mdf
[08:09:33] <skunkworks> R2E4, machine in hand?
[08:10:05] <archivist> better than machine on foot
[08:10:18] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[08:11:10] <skunkworks> :)
[08:11:24] <Loetmichel> archivist: depends on the machine...
[08:12:03] <DJ9DJ> lol
[08:12:25] * Loetmichel was just delivered with a Chinese 6040 router... thats less than 50kgs and can be carried by one person ;-)
[08:12:53] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14118
[08:13:51] <Loetmichel> fomox: a machine like this WILL cut aluminium. but only light cuts: takes its time
[08:14:19] <fomox> 2mm?
[08:14:26] <fomox> I want something like that :D
[08:14:37] <fomox> how big is the workspace?
[08:16:58] <Loetmichel> like its name: 600(580)mm by 400mm by 75mm
[08:17:33] <fomox> ah
[08:17:38] <Loetmichel> ... more like 0,2mm with a 3mm router bit
[08:17:41] <Loetmichel> per run
[08:17:43] <fomox> 0.2
[08:17:50] <fomox> thats not gonna work
[08:17:56] <fomox> I can live with 1mm
[08:17:57] <Loetmichel> why?
[08:18:02] <DJ9DJ> atomizing aluminium :)
[08:18:08] <Loetmichel> its CNC. so just do more runs
[08:18:16] <fomox> because 6mm is gonna take a long time :P
[08:18:17] <Loetmichel> i said: it will take time ;-)
[08:18:26] <fomox> the machine that is running now uses an hour and its 2mm cuts
[08:18:32] <fomox> yeah you did :P
[08:19:18] <fomox> that machine you got is gonna use 10 hours on what I use 1 hour to do now
[08:19:29] <fomox> Its cnc, but still :P
[08:19:48] <fomox> my main use will be mdf tho
[08:20:22] <Loetmichel> look at my home mill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzOtqYhpHIM <- 6mm mill bit, 0,2mm depth per cut... will take its time but will do the job ;-)
[08:21:47] <Jymmm> so will a shotgun
[08:21:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEd4LCJ3uWk <- it can mive a bit faster, thou: 2mm bit, 24krpm, 1,5mm wall aluminium tube
[08:22:10] <Loetmichel> move
[08:22:34] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: shotgun isnt that precise, otherwise you're right ;-)
[08:22:48] <DJ9DJ> hmm, cnc shotgun? ;)
[08:23:26] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: it uses precision shot
[08:26:02] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSGxatc4Nk&feature=player_detailpage#t=224s
[08:27:08] <Loetmichel> fomox: your requirements of less than 40kgs and 2mm depth in aluminium dont go well together, because for rigidity needed to do "heavy" cuts you need a steel casted frame. or one from Carbon fibre or the likes, which are VERY expensive ;-)
[08:29:19] <DJ9DJ> titanium ;)
[08:29:37] <fomox> hehe
[08:29:39] <fomox> I see
[08:29:58] <fomox> guess I`ll just stick with a similar to what you just got then
[08:30:08] <fomox> but thats gonna be a while until I can afford :P
[08:32:05] <Loetmichel> its 2kEur
[08:32:11] <Loetmichel> the chinese 6040
[08:32:52] <Loetmichel> with all the parts you see on the pic, exept the table and the computer parts
[08:33:24] <Loetmichel> i.e: with watercooled spindle, 4th axis and Inverter/pump/drive electronics.
[08:33:28] <Loetmichel> "plug and play"
[08:33:31] <Loetmichel> ... more or less
[08:33:53] <Loetmichel> came in this assembling state:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14115
[08:33:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee4_1363329068
[08:34:03] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna shoot that
[08:34:08] <Loetmichel> (thats one of my co-workes, not me)
[08:34:18] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOo-muzMRp0
[08:35:23] <fomox> ah
[08:35:41] <fomox> what are you using it for?
[08:35:49] <Jymmm> shotgun barrel making
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOo-muzMRp0
[08:36:28] <Loetmichel> fomox: me?
[08:36:30] <fomox> nice
[08:36:32] <fomox> yeah
[08:36:42] <Jymmm> the barrel straightening is kinda trippy
[08:37:00] <Loetmichel> new (EMI) casings for Computer parts mostly
[08:37:09] <fomox> emi?
[08:37:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13528
[08:37:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13367
[08:37:50] <fomox> can i ask why?
[08:37:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12430
[08:38:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12436
[08:38:05] <Loetmichel> for example
[08:38:46] <Loetmichel> because the company i work for converts Computers and pheripherials to Military grade shielded equipment
[08:38:55] <fomox> ah
[08:39:05] <fomox> is it against emp ?
[08:39:20] <Loetmichel> eavesdropping ;-)
[08:39:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Hey, I do too....using duct tape
[08:39:28] <Loetmichel> NEMP and HEMP as well ;-)
[08:40:33] <fomox> ah
[08:40:39] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: dont belive that... unless the duct tape is copper tape with conducting glue ;-)
[08:40:43] <fomox> well, thanks for the help guys
[08:40:52] <fomox> I`m done for today at school so now I`m gonna go home :P
[08:41:20] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzaMDp3dgJc
[08:41:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: LOTS of overlapping duct tape layeers
[08:42:11] <Err> only if the thickness is deeper than the distance of the EMI :-)
[08:42:39] <Err> RF shielding is a punk, and about 3/4 magic
[08:42:47] <DJ9DJ> indeed
[08:42:49] <Jymmm> Err: skin effect baby, skin effect
[08:42:58] <DJ9DJ> its like voodoo :D
[08:43:11] <Loetmichel> Err: make that 9/10 Voodoo and its about right ;-)
[08:44:03] <Err> yeah, we make RF receivers and transmitters, and the RF engineers don't think like the rest of us
[08:44:40] <Jymmm> Err: where?
[08:45:05] <Jymmm> Err: or for who I should say
[08:47:28] <Loetmichel> Err: the best (bad) example we have at the company is a quad channel HP DSO with 1ghz inputs...
[08:47:39] <Err> I'd prefer not to say, since they are unrelated to my interest in metal fabrication :-)
[08:48:03] <Jymmm> Err: Fine, msg me it =)
[08:48:56] <Jymmm> Err: If you work for motorola in AZ, you poor bastard.
[08:49:03] <Loetmichel> lay the probe down in front of the DSOs screen, press "auto" ans see a nice LVDS signal with about 100mV amplitude
[08:49:20] <Err> ha, no
[08:49:42] <Loetmichel> and that in a DSO that costs about a middleclass new car
[08:49:58] <Err> ouch, that's terrible
[08:50:06] <Err> our DSOs are all tek
[08:52:46] <Loetmichel> best was my private chinese lipo charger... set on a table across the workshop to charge a helicoter battery...
[08:53:37] <Loetmichel> our engineer opens the door of the measurement chamber about 10 metres away... instant overload on the Spectrum analyzers from 50khz to 1ghz.... ;-)
[08:53:44] <Loetmichel> +p
[08:54:07] <Loetmichel> and that thing even has a metal casing ;-)
[08:54:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11471
[08:55:47] <Err> Loetmichel: you have an anechoic chamber at work?
[08:56:00] <Loetmichel> 2
[08:56:26] <Loetmichel> one for sdip27 measurements, one for the euroean zone model
[08:56:41] <Err> nice
[08:58:02] <Err> we used to have a couple of screen cages, but nothing good enough to be considered a chamber
[08:58:34] <Loetmichel> the chamber is relatively cheap... the SAs are NOT ;-)
[08:58:53] <Loetmichel> http://cordsen.com/index.php/services/tempest-certification
[08:59:50] <Err> heh, we have one of those eggbeater antennas
[09:01:13] <Loetmichel> but i dont have anything to do in there other than putting my work in and wait for the "thumbs up/down" from the engineer
[09:01:54] <Loetmichel> <- is just the production manager there.
[09:03:03] <Err> yeah, I don't do any RF measurements except on hobby stuff - I leave production RF design to the magicians who know it
[09:06:00] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[09:07:12] <Loetmichel> as the company isnt THAT big i have the opertunity/ cross to bear to desing some of the low volume stuff
[09:07:27] <Loetmichel> like the PSU casings for notebooks and so on
[09:07:43] <Loetmichel> and make the production runs for small orders myself
[09:07:57] <Loetmichel> big orders will go out to a sheet metal company
[09:09:04] <Loetmichel> i.e. i take a design from our RF-engineer and modify it intil i get the PSU parts and filters Fit in it :-)
[09:12:23] <archivist> I like old HP specans to play with
[09:32:55] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It's called a crusher =)
[09:34:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: PSU Casings == brass screen and conductive epoxy resin =
[09:34:35] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Wrap, dip, and let dry =)
[09:38:26] <Loetmichel> crusher?
[09:38:48] <Loetmichel> ah, to fit the psu inside the existing case design?
[09:38:50] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[09:39:01] <Jymmm> =)
[09:39:33] <Loetmichel> i dont think our customers will be happy wit resin-ripped plastic casings that ware warapped in copper mesh ;-)
[09:39:41] <Loetmichel> dipped
[09:40:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Hey, it can be done and esthetically pleasing too, if done right.
[09:40:34] <Loetmichel> dont think so
[09:40:53] <Jymmm> If you use molds
[09:41:22] <Loetmichel> anyways, our customers are used to full metal casings with LOTS of screws. and being military they tend to be a bit conservative ;-)
[09:41:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13885 <. see what i mean?
[09:42:08] <Jymmm> just paint it ODG or ADC =)
[09:43:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13576&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- or this 24" TFT... every silver dot os a M3*6 stainless phillips screw ;-)
[09:43:22] <Loetmichel> odg? adc?
[09:43:49] <Jymmm> ODG == Olive Dab Green
[09:43:55] <Jymmm> drab
[09:44:08] <Err> Loetmichel: what do you do for the screen itself? a transparent conductor?
[09:44:48] <Loetmichel> Err: 1,1mm glass with laminated copper mesh
[09:45:01] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12454
[09:45:47] <Loetmichel> ir a heavily ITO coated glass
[09:45:50] <Loetmichel> or
[09:45:57] <Jymmm> The sad thing, is all that shit won't work against heat and sand, and you'll have to pull out the 1950's rigs that work like a tank!
[09:46:31] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: that tempest only
[09:46:53] <Loetmichel> the rugged stuff is not our main field, although we do that, too
[09:46:58] <Jymmm> That's what they had to do in Iraq, then pulled out the 1950's Collins rigs
[09:47:27] <Loetmichel> like 19" servers with -20 to +55°c operating range and 30++Gforces guranteed operation ;)
[09:47:48] <Loetmichel> these have seen afghanistan iirc
[09:47:53] <Loetmichel> and lived to tell
[09:48:06] <Jymmm> how did they do the 30G's?
[09:48:12] <Loetmichel> amazing amounts of sand and dust in them when we have to repair them sometimes ;-)
[09:48:20] <Jymmm> heh
[09:48:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: matroska design
[09:48:34] * Jymmm google
[09:48:48] <Loetmichel> the harddisk sits in a cage in a cage in a cage... and rubber bumpers between each cage
[09:49:04] <Jymmm> ah
[09:49:15] <Jymmm> so not 1U =)
[09:49:19] <Loetmichel> 4 u
[09:49:27] <Jymmm> k
[09:50:12] <Loetmichel> http://cordsen.com/images/CE_Media/_img_pdf/CE-7650_eng.pdf
[09:51:16] <Jymmm> how much?
[09:51:23] <Loetmichel> dont ask
[09:51:30] <Loetmichel> 5 figures in euros
[09:51:30] <Jymmm> how much?
[09:51:40] <Loetmichel> and not an 1 at the front iirc
[09:51:48] <Jymmm> heh
[09:52:41] <Jymmm> Funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7kirdtdI1c
[09:54:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Someone has a univac they want to convert for cnc usage, you invented those didn't you?
[09:54:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: tell me about it.. i just got a call from the garage: the car repair will cost 1100 eur at minimum AND will not be done until monday evening :-(
[09:54:54] <JT-Shop> lol
[09:55:12] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: whats wrong with it?
[09:55:20] <Loetmichel> so MY paycheck this month will go to the car
[09:55:31] <cncinator> hello guys
[09:55:33] <Loetmichel> borth read axle bearing done
[09:55:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[09:55:58] <Loetmichel> ac heat exchanger has more holes than a swiss cheese
[09:56:09] <cncinator> is andypugh here?
[09:56:41] <JT-Shop> he sould be at work this time of the day
[09:56:45] <Loetmichel> and the AC compressor belt is in shreds... the "tightening pulley" has worn out and cut the belt to shreds
[09:57:02] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: When my in-tank fuel pump went out, they wanted $1100. The KBB in the car is only $3600, I was FINALLY ale to do it myself for $110 including the tools
[09:57:15] <Jymmm> *able
[09:57:20] <Loetmichel> not happening here
[09:57:34] * JT-Shop wonders why my eye phone kills my computer about one in 20 times when I plug it in...
[09:57:48] <Loetmichel> o wohnt dismanlte my car open air at -10°C outside
[09:57:58] <cncinator> hm.. is anotherone interested in helping a linuxcncnoob to setup spindle index pulse?
[09:58:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's EeeeVille
[09:58:18] <Loetmichel> besides: the bnearings are pressed in, and can only be changed wit a x ton workshop press
[09:58:28] <Jymmm> ah
[09:58:29] <skunkworks> cncinator!!! Did you figure out your latency issue?
[09:58:33] <Loetmichel> s/o wohnt/I wont
[09:58:37] <cncinator> yes!
[09:58:44] <cncinator> i think it was the nvidia driver
[09:58:51] <cncinator> (all of them)
[09:58:53] <skunkworks> Oh - I am sure it was :)
[09:59:07] <skunkworks> Great
[09:59:14] <markvandenborre> hi! I'm in .eu and looking for a machine to use with linuxcnc
[09:59:14] <cncinator> im so fuckin happy it worked
[09:59:25] <markvandenborre> that can do 18mm birch ply in one pass
[09:59:41] <skunkworks> so - what do you have setup so far?
[09:59:43] <markvandenborre> and produce pieces of 65mmx50mm
[09:59:48] <markvandenborre> any suggestions?
[10:00:07] <markvandenborre> (I'm completely new to cnc routing)
[10:00:25] <markvandenborre> but I have quite a bit of experience working with *nix machines
[10:00:32] <cncinator> i had 2 setups, but every setup i do, linuxcnc wont load with the same error.. my competence ends with that spindle thing
[10:00:33] <markvandenborre> free software user since 199x
[10:00:42] <cncinator> since under mach3 i just had my indexpulse signal to go in
[10:01:44] <cncinator> when i pick index pulse in stepconf, hal just shows me true/false
[10:02:03] <cncinator> when i pick phase a instead, i get that error
[10:02:22] <markvandenborre> I have looked at
[10:02:32] <markvandenborre> http://www.stepmores.com/product-5028c2b36d54619d1d000000.shtml for example
[10:02:44] <markvandenborre> or at bzt machines from Germany
[10:03:31] <cncinator> bzt just imports chinese ones btw
[10:03:54] <markvandenborre> bzt imports chines machines?
[10:03:54] <markvandenborre> hm, that's good to know
[10:04:18] <Loetmichel> bzt doesent import chinese machines
[10:04:38] <Loetmichel> chinese manufactueres are not THAT low on knowledge!
[10:04:40] <markvandenborre> Loetmichel: you have given me some basic hints before
[10:04:47] <Loetmichel> did i?
[10:04:59] <markvandenborre> when I had even less information on what I actually wanted/needed
[10:05:02] <markvandenborre> months ago
[10:05:16] <Loetmichel> ah, i thought i'veeen that nick before ;-)
[10:05:23] <Loetmichel> seen
[10:05:58] <markvandenborre> are any of these el cheapo 6090 machines worth anything?
[10:06:04] <markvandenborre> what should I look for in them?
[10:06:05] <cncinator> loet, the complete bzt catalogue looks like oem things
[10:06:12] <archivist> cncinator, is this on a lathe or mill
[10:06:23] <cncinator> i use a lathe
[10:06:39] <Loetmichel> i just have got deivered with a 6040
[10:06:42] <markvandenborre> (keep in mind that ideally, I would be able to get this up a flight of stairs
[10:06:44] <markvandenborre> )
[10:06:46] <Loetmichel> but not tested yet
[10:06:49] <markvandenborre> ah, cool
[10:07:31] <Loetmichel> as for now i can tell: it works... but no geometry check or capability tests until now.
[10:07:43] <markvandenborre> what make?
[10:07:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4UiVpUhOGI
[10:07:54] <Loetmichel> chinese
[10:08:07] <archivist> cncinator, what error
[10:09:05] <markvandenborre> Loetmichel: would something like that be capable of 18mm ply in one pass with the right settings and bits?
[10:09:24] <cncinator> Pin 'pyvcp.spindle-speed' does not exist
[10:09:25] <syyl> thats kind of optimistic
[10:09:38] <Loetmichel> cncinator: i wanted to say: if thet stuff is chinese it is even cheaper than the direct chinese machines because it is even more bendy and bad designed
[10:09:57] <Loetmichel> i would use 3 passes
[10:10:14] <Loetmichel> but it can be capapele of one (slow) pass
[10:10:26] <Loetmichel> would be test-worthy
[10:10:28] <cncinator> *custom_postgui.hal:15: Pin 'pyvcp.spindle-speed' does not exist
[10:10:32] <syyl> so called burn-the-crap-out-of-it-pass
[10:10:40] <syyl> high-spindle speed, slow feed
[10:10:53] <syyl> "i smell something on fire"
[10:10:57] <skunkworks> cncinator, and your using the stepwizard
[10:11:00] <markvandenborre> you mean the sides would be as burnt as with a laser?
[10:11:02] <skunkworks> ?
[10:11:21] <syyl> with the right settings it will catch fire ;)
[10:11:27] <Loetmichel> syyl: so what? a TC 2flute cant go dull from temperature, even when red hot ;-)
[10:11:35] <cncinator> yes i really had never typed anything in any file that amy cause this
[10:11:47] <syyl> but you will rub it to death
[10:11:49] <markvandenborre> now again, I know nothing about cnc cutting
[10:12:03] <markvandenborre> so maybe 3 passes is acceptable in terms of precision
[10:13:06] <cncinator> i just ran the stepconf wizard cause i have zero exp with linux
[10:13:57] <Loetmichel> markvandenborre: a mill bit has to operate in a certain range of cutting speed, i.e the spindle RPM and the diameter should give a specific cutting velocity. and the chip load per tooth cant be too small because the mill bit begins ti grind instead of cutt when moving slow with fast RPM
[10:14:05] <Loetmichel> you will destroy the bit fast
[10:15:14] <Loetmichel> so a Cut very deep wiht a high rpm tends to dull the bit and then BURN its way though the wood rahter than cutting
[10:15:26] <Loetmichel> also you will have the problem of getting the chips out
[10:16:33] <archivist> cncinator, it is probably that step conf has no clue about extra pyvcp widgits you may need to connect it by hand
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/pyvcp_es.html
[10:16:38] <Loetmichel> and as the cinese machine are not very sturdy you WILL have to get the feed down when cutting THAT deep in wood because the cutting forces will bend the frame otherwise
[10:17:23] <cncinator> i love my chinese machines, i own a 7x12 lathe and a X2 mini mill (small benchtop machines)
[10:17:52] <Loetmichel> cncinator: i meant the gantry type like in the video
[10:18:00] <cncinator> i do love them cause theyre cheap and bring me smile on my face, 6000€ for a bzt alu cnc machine is way too much
[10:18:28] <cncinator> archivist, can i disable it to get a "easier" solution?
[10:18:55] <archivist> how did you enable it :)
[10:19:11] <archivist> I have not used pyvcp
[10:19:18] <cncinator> haha
[10:19:20] <Loetmichel> cncinator: especiallay when the 6kEur bzt macine is less sturdy than a 2keur chinese one ;-)
[10:19:28] <cncinator> i do not know what im doing here xD
[10:20:29] <cncinator> this linuxcnc thingy is all new to me, but i like it cause it looks so much more professionell then mach3
[10:21:16] <cncinator> loetmichel, cant tell you if its compareable, since i just knew my SIEG machines, but
[10:21:24] <markvandenborre> how much time should I count to get up to speed a little bit?
[10:21:33] <markvandenborre> with basicly a
[10:21:39] <markvandenborre> *nix background
[10:21:56] <markvandenborre> and no woodworking experience at all
[10:22:02] <cncinator> loetmichel, *but i think Wabeco machines are better in price and function
[10:22:21] <Loetmichel> dont worry about time... worry about your fingers ;-)
[10:22:38] <Loetmichel> cncinator: i tend to disaggree
[10:22:41] <markvandenborre> is it realistic to be producing something decent quality within a week or two?
[10:22:51] <Loetmichel> the wabeco stuff is relabeled chinese maschines also
[10:23:13] <Loetmichel> just with a poorer service and unfriendly service ppl
[10:23:42] <cncinator> loetmichel, yes - but the machines are made in germany (they claim) - they also work together with those american trunnion table guys
[10:23:54] <skunkworks> cncinator, can you pastebin your custom_postgui.hal?
[10:24:03] <Loetmichel> cncinator: y3ah, the new label will be put on in germany, right
[10:24:09] <Loetmichel> :-)
[10:24:17] <skunkworks> I just ran the wizard and got an error (but for spindle at speed)
[10:24:43] <markvandenborre> any Chinese brands with a decent reputation _and_ linuxcnc support?
[10:24:48] <Loetmichel> markvandenborre: i dont know how good you are in learning stuff
[10:24:56] <cncinator> skunkworks, yes
[10:25:10] <Loetmichel> markvandenborre: yes, any ;-)
[10:25:18] <markvandenborre> Loetmichel: I'm not scared about the software at all
[10:25:25] <Loetmichel> for the linuxcnc compability
[10:25:28] <cncinator> file:///home/christoph/Desktop/Meine-Maschine/custom_postgui.hal
[10:25:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Dis guy iz smarts, Eyes learn two make moonshine from expert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNq28DDjlA0&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[10:25:47] <Loetmichel> the good reputation: as giid as it gets when your support is 5000++ miles away ;-)
[10:25:49] <cncinator> skunkworks, can you see the file?
[10:26:18] <Loetmichel> cncinator: we cant lokk on your harddisk ;-)
[10:26:22] <Loetmichel> look
[10:26:45] <skunkworks> cncinator, ?
[10:26:50] <cncinator> loetmichel, those lathe they sale dont look like the common import lathes manufactured by sieg
[10:26:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: He found epoxy at the dollar store for a dollar
[10:27:08] <cncinator> skunkworks, how do i send you the file?
[10:27:19] <skunkworks> cncinator, pastebin it here astebin.ca/
[10:27:30] <skunkworks> heh
[10:27:31] <skunkworks> here
[10:27:32] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.ca/
[10:28:34] <cncinator> http://pastebin.ca/2333081
[10:28:57] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/dNMuIRT.jpg
[10:29:03] * markvandenborre sees prices from 2000€ to 7000€ for 600x900mm machines...
[10:30:56] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[10:32:10] <r00t4rd3d> i built my 24x36 for 600
[10:32:26] <skunkworks> cncinator, there is a post_gui hal file
[10:32:45] <r00t4rd3d> and about 250 for the computer/monitor
[10:34:20] <cncinator> skunkworks, thank your very much for your help and time skunkworks, cncbasher told me to add a # and now i can see the spindle speed!
[10:34:33] <skunkworks> Great!
[10:34:55] <skunkworks> cncinator, you should be able to thread now....
[10:35:43] * r00t4rd3d hands cncinator a needle
[10:35:58] <cncinator> skunkworks, spindlespeed jumps arround +/- 0.5 does that matter?
[10:36:12] <skunkworks> no
[10:36:54] <cncinator> skunkworks, spindle burns and fogs like mad - does that matter?
[10:37:16] <skunkworks> Uh - What?
[10:37:19] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[10:37:21] <cncinator> joke ^
[10:37:35] <r00t4rd3d> smoke should be pouring out
[10:37:42] <r00t4rd3d> thats how you know its working
[10:38:20] <skunkworks> heh - cncinator you may want to change one line of your hal file...
[10:38:41] <cncinator> skunkworks, i did on line 20
[10:38:58] <skunkworks> no - in combination to...
[10:39:02] <r00t4rd3d> what controller are you using?
[10:39:21] <cncinator> linuxcnc?
[10:39:27] <r00t4rd3d> no hardware
[10:39:28] <cncinator> what line?
[10:39:32] <skunkworks> hold on
[10:39:36] <cncinator> DM542A stepper
[10:39:51] <cncinator> a cheap chinese bob
[10:39:52] <skunkworks> encoder.N.position-interpolated
[10:39:57] <skunkworks> so
[10:40:04] <cncinator> and cnc4pc index pulse card
[10:40:05] <skunkworks> change this
[10:40:06] <skunkworks> net spindle-position encoder.0.position => motion.spindle-revs
[10:40:37] <skunkworks> to net spindle-position encoder.0.position-interpolated => motion.spindle-revs
[10:40:55] <skunkworks> line 33 in your pastebin
[10:41:27] <skunkworks> because you are using only 1 index per rev - this will smooth out the threading
[10:42:26] <cncinator> does this work too when i make a new disc with 8 slots? cncbasher meant 1 slot is may not enough
[10:43:20] <skunkworks> it will still work - I would still use interolated until you get into the 100+ slots
[10:43:30] <skunkworks> imho
[10:44:24] <skunkworks> 8 slots will help tremedously though..
[10:44:54] <cncinator> whats another word for tremedously?
[10:45:02] <skunkworks> you do need 2 sensors though.. (index + A)
[10:45:13] <skunkworks> quite a bit?
[10:45:17] <Jymmm> cncinator: a lot
[10:45:36] <Jymmm> significantly
[10:45:44] <skunkworks> you do need 2 sensors though.. (index + A)
[10:45:56] <skunkworks> Jymmm, perfect :)
[10:45:59] <cncinator> ok, so i need to make a disc by myself and then get a 100slot disc and a seperate index sensor for future?
[10:46:52] <skunkworks> even for you 8 slot disk - you need 2 sensors... * slots + 1 slot for index
[10:46:58] <skunkworks> even for you 8 slot disk - you need 2 sensors... 8 slots + 1 slot for index
[10:47:04] <cncinator> but i just have one :*(
[10:48:02] <skunkworks> Unless someone has gotten a simulated index working... (I know it has been discussed - but I don't think it is implimented)
[10:48:43] <skunkworks> cncinator, try threading wiith your 1 index... See if it works well enough for you. It may work just fine.
[10:49:29] <cncinator> i had the problem with mach3
[10:49:44] <cncinator> i had 2 pitches instead of the intendet single one
[10:51:37] <skunkworks> right - but that is mach... Give threading on linuxcnc it a try.
[10:52:04] <skunkworks> (you could have had noise... - even though threading on mach does suck-from what I hear)
[10:53:01] <cncinator> thats what i heared too, mach allways had problems with threading
[10:53:18] <cncinator> i did just have to edit line 33, right?
[10:57:13] <skunkworks> yes
[10:58:40] <cncinator> did it, but no feelable difference in the spindle speed gui
[10:58:51] <cncinator> still jumps on rpm
[10:59:58] <skunkworks> it won't
[11:00:04] <cncinator> it does
[11:00:10] <cncinator> ^^
[11:00:36] <skunkworks> (2 different things - spindle postion is for threading - spindle speed is for the readout..)
[11:00:53] <cncinator> but i just have 1 sensor
[11:01:05] <skunkworks> *it won't effect the spinde speed readout...
[11:01:41] <cncinator> is there no spindle speed averagin in linuxcnc?
[11:01:50] <archivist> 1? you only have index?
[11:02:15] <cncinator> i only have 1 sensor and 1 slot on 1 disc
[11:02:22] <skunkworks> yes - if you look in your postgui hal file - there is a filter componant.. You can change the filtering there
[11:02:22] <cncinator> *on 1 machine
[11:04:30] <archivist> for quality threads you could do with an encoder disk too
[11:04:38] <skunkworks> you want to chane the lowpass.0.gain
[11:04:48] <cncinator> net spindle-fb-filtered-rps lowpass.0.out => abs.0.in
[11:05:18] <skunkworks> it is probably set to like .01
[11:05:39] <cncinator> oh yes, found it 0.01000
[11:06:00] <skunkworks> so try .005
[11:06:06] <skunkworks> (I think that is the right direction)
[11:06:57] <cncinator> still jumps, but slower imho
[11:07:38] <skunkworks> so try .001 ;)
[11:11:19] <cncinator> yeah that looks nice :D
[11:11:34] <skunkworks> Great
[11:12:11] <skunkworks> Tried treading yet?
[11:12:18] <skunkworks> Huh? have you?
[11:12:31] <skunkworks> *threading
[11:13:33] <archivist> we await pics of your results :)
[11:13:47] <skunkworks> ^^
[11:13:59] <cncinator> not yet, need to program sumthing but its the next step :D
[11:14:39] <archivist> and then you can try an internal thread
[11:15:30] <skunkworks> cncinator, I think you have a lot mor options for leadins and outs and such
[11:16:08] <archivist> the lead out means no more silly safety grooves :)
[11:26:37] <cncinator> whats lead out?
[11:28:35] <archivist> the tool pulling out of the work
[11:29:55] <archivist> manual lathe users cut a groove to give themselves time to disengage the leadscrew
[11:31:28] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G76-Threading-Canned
[11:53:32] <markvandenborre> are there any other options to somewhat control a cnc router from linux than linuxcnc? think more open loopish "control" with more of the intelligence in some controller outside the pc box
[11:53:56] <markvandenborre> hope I won't get flamed for that, I'm really just trying to understand linux cnc routing well
[11:54:05] <markvandenborre> not always easy as a newbie
[11:54:17] <archivist> we laugh rather than flame :)
[11:54:40] <skunkworks> markvandenborre, that isn't really linuxcnc's model. (external motion control)
[11:55:02] <markvandenborre> skunkworks: I am perfectly aware of that
[11:55:13] <cradek> I don't know of any system like that that runs on linux
[11:55:17] <markvandenborre> which is why I was asking about other linux software than linuxcnc
[11:55:36] <markvandenborre> archivist: that's the attitude!
[11:55:38] <markvandenborre> :-)
[11:56:05] <skunkworks> But linuxcnc will do open loop... :)
[11:56:08] <archivist> you can use a pc as your external though with linuxcnc
[11:56:13] <markvandenborre> please do note that I'm not trying to belittle the efforts of any linuxcnc contributors in any way. I do really appreciate them
[11:56:24] <skunkworks> and the interface cards are very inexpensive...
[11:56:59] <archivist> for the well off inexpensive not so for some
[11:57:15] <skunkworks> (because they don't need to be motion controllers...)
[11:57:23] <cradek> markvandenborre: what problem are you trying to solve? what is leading you to ask this question?
[11:57:48] <skunkworks> archivist, point taken.. But the $89 5i25 is rockin...
[11:58:16] <markvandenborre> cradek: the big plan is to get a relatively cheap cnc machine and get it working as quickly as possible
[11:58:29] <markvandenborre> without self build, with as little physical fiddling as possible
[11:58:34] <markvandenborre> and using 100% free software
[11:58:50] <archivist> skunkworks, that is about what I have earned in the last 2 weeks
[11:59:07] <markvandenborre> in the beginning, I am willing to compromise on quality in the beginning
[11:59:09] <cradek> markvandenborre: ok, a proprietary black box external control is not what you want, then -- even if some free software ran it
[11:59:41] <markvandenborre> cradek: it would be ok if I could throw gcode at this black box I suppose
[11:59:54] <markvandenborre> then later replace it with a direct link to a linux box
[12:00:00] <markvandenborre> as I gather some experience
[12:00:04] <cradek> that seems really incomaptible with your 100% free software requirement
[12:00:05] <archivist> paint your pc black
[12:00:15] <Hardouin> Hello !
[12:00:16] <cradek> you are mistakenly thinking a black box will make your job cheaper and easier
[12:00:20] <jdh> I feel like I hear somethign similar a lot... like "I want to drive my steppers with an arduino and have lcnc control it"
[12:00:45] <cradek> ... but what it really does is imprison you in the same way nonfree software does
[12:00:53] <Hardouin> I am new on this channel,
[12:01:02] <archivist> markvandenborre, pc to stepper driver NO black box needed at all
[12:01:09] <Hardouin> I just need a small help !
[12:01:19] <jdh> Hardouin: ask
[12:01:21] <cradek> hi Hardouin, go ahead and ask your questions
[12:01:31] <markvandenborre> archivist: but it would need fiddling with hardware and cabling from square 1
[12:01:33] <Hardouin> I am building a MechMate
[12:01:48] <Hardouin> I would like it working with LinuxCNC
[12:01:55] <markvandenborre> and I am trying to get at least some useful results asap
[12:02:00] <archivist> markvandenborre, you always need to cable something
[12:02:01] <markvandenborre> without touching windows
[12:02:27] <markvandenborre> archivist: cradek : it might very well be that I am just overestimating the hardware wiring work
[12:02:38] <markvandenborre> but right now I see stuff like
[12:02:39] <jdh> you are
[12:02:41] <Hardouin> Could you tell me which board would be a good choice ?
[12:02:59] <cradek> markvandenborre: I don't see how you can simplify wiring by adding a black box
[12:03:01] <markvandenborre> http://www.stepmores.com/product-5028c2b36d54619d1d000000.shtml
[12:03:17] <markvandenborre> and I haven't got the faintest idea if I would be buying a linux paperweight or not
[12:03:56] <cradek> are you asking what interface that commercial machine uses? we have no idea
[12:03:58] <markvandenborre> I did build a reprap sometime ago, at a workshop, with a lot of assistance
[12:04:08] <archivist> markvandenborre, that probably has a parellel port connection which linuxcnc can drive
[12:04:19] <cradek> that's a huge leap of faith
[12:04:33] <Hardouin> no
[12:04:43] <cradek> well it does say mach3 in there somewhere, so it's only a big (not huge) leap of faith
[12:04:55] <Hardouin> I am building a 4 axis CNC with 5 Nema34
[12:04:57] <jdh> I'd say small leap.
[12:04:58] <archivist> and leadshine stepper drivers :)
[12:05:10] <markvandenborre> archivist: what is the reasoning behind "that probably ..."?
[12:05:15] <archivist> so I think it is a parallel connection
[12:05:27] <jdh> anything other than p-port would add cost
[12:05:44] <markvandenborre> if it has a parallell port, the comm with the steppers must be fairly simple
[12:05:44] <cradek> now we've finally come to the real question
[12:05:47] <markvandenborre> ?
[12:05:54] <Hardouin> Could you tell me which PCI or parallel board should work well with EMC2 ?
[12:06:55] <pcw_home> A simple parallel port will work (either on motherboard or PCI/PCIE)
[12:06:55] <markvandenborre> are there any questions I can ask this manufacturer that might increase the chances of getting something out of a generic machine like that?
[12:07:07] <archivist> markvandenborre, if it has a parallel port it is a printer cable and a small amount of configuring most likely
[12:07:24] <markvandenborre> let me ask it in a different way:
[12:07:32] <markvandenborre> what is the worst case with a parallel port?
[12:07:44] <archivist> markvandenborre, there are plenty of machines like that with better docs too
[12:07:45] <markvandenborre> or something that looks like a parallel port?
[12:07:57] <Hardouin> My spindle is a 3kw tree phases
[12:07:58] <markvandenborre> archivist: I'd love to hear about them
[12:08:03] <Hardouin> water cooled
[12:08:18] <Hardouin> ok
[12:08:39] <Hardouin> I think I will ask in an other place !
[12:08:44] <Hardouin> Thank you !
[12:09:06] <skunkworks> Hardouin, too vauge...
[12:09:09] <markvandenborre> archivist: or maybe you mean I should look at other places that have more tech docs with the offerings?
[12:09:16] <archivist> yes
[12:09:45] <markvandenborre> what am I looking for then? specific stepper motor types?
[12:10:08] <markvandenborre> parallel port presence obviously, but what else?
[12:10:15] <skunkworks> more likely - the interface to the pc...
[12:11:13] <skunkworks> most likely - anything other than the printer port is going to be incompatable with linuxcnc.
[12:13:04] <markvandenborre> why would a parallel port router not be controllable by the pc?
[12:13:17] <markvandenborre> (this is not a rhetorical question!)
[12:13:26] <markvandenborre> I'm just trying to understand what could go wrong
[12:14:10] <jdh> little that can't be fixed
[12:15:56] <markvandenborre> little that can't be fixed in software?
[12:16:01] <markvandenborre> or in hardware?
[12:16:34] <jdh> IMO... it's a chinese machine. it is optimized for low cost production. that will be a p-port controlled generic stepper
[12:17:24] <markvandenborre> so even if there is some dsp that deals with real time control in there, I should be able to bypass it you mean?
[12:17:27] <jdh> you could just email them and ask. I would bet some of someone elses money that the back of the box is a db25 going to a generic BOB to the leadshines
[12:17:38] <jdh> that is highly unlikely
[12:18:26] <jdh> speculation is fun and all, but I'm sure they would be more than happy to tell you what the interface is.
[12:19:11] <pcw_home> Hmm speculation: wonder if Kathy will notice that Daisy chewed the pull-on loops off one of her boots
[12:19:30] <jdh> female, shoes. yes, they will notice
[12:21:30] <jdh> my daughter has like 40 pairs of boots though. She might not notice for a while.
[12:22:17] <archivist> what's wrong with one pair of boots till they wear out!
[12:23:08] <jdh> she has ones that look identical to me. and ones that are identical other than color
[12:25:01] <skunkworks> my wife can't understand how I can wear shoes out.. (I say - because I only have 1 pair...)
[12:25:27] <jdh> mine keeps telling me I can buy more, but I dont' see the point.
[12:46:02] <andypugh> markvandenborre: Another source of routers in the EU:
http://www.worldofcnc.com/complete-cnc-packages-c-342.html
[12:48:20] <andypugh> I doubt that many applications cut 18mm deep in one pass, and CNC ought to be accurate enough for multi-pass to give the same result. You can always tickle a little bit off full depth as a finishing cut.
[12:57:17] <Loetmichel> *GNAH* can this day get any worse? First the bad news from the car repair shop, now i have dented my wifes car getting grocerys... (scraped the garage door column) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14121
[12:58:50] <skunkworks> Loetmichel, doesn't look too bad.. hardly looks wrinkled..
[12:59:35] <Loetmichel> it IS wrinkeld underneath the wall paint. concrete pillars dont give way... sadly :-(
[12:59:39] <pcw_home> buff it out!
[12:59:47] <Loetmichel> its a company car
[12:59:52] <skunkworks> ooh
[13:00:54] <skunkworks> I ran into my car - twice...
[13:14:54] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[13:52:10] <Loetmichel> hmm, just have a discussion "nearby" in a german µC channel. would it be possibe to modify linuxCNC to run on a raspberry pi?
[13:52:25] <cradek> arrrrrrghhh
[13:52:33] <Loetmichel> so one has a cheap readily aviable system with a handfull of GPIO
[13:52:53] <Loetmichel> or is there a reason it doent already exist?
[13:52:56] <Loetmichel> doesent
[13:53:10] <archivist> read the mailing list :)
[13:53:28] <Jymmm> cradek: Could you modify linuxcnc to run on an arduino?
[13:53:38] <Jymmm> cradek: a PIC?
[13:53:56] <Loetmichel> i dont. can someone give me a short synopsis?
[13:53:56] <archivist> that deserves a kickban
[13:54:06] <Jymmm> cradek: Atari 2600?
[13:54:35] <Jymmm> cradek: at least the Atario 2600 always has the joysticks =)
[13:54:43] <Jymmm> s/always/already/
[13:54:46] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: that are 8 bit µCs raspberry pi is a arm 32bit IMHO
[13:55:01] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: So?
[13:55:28] <Loetmichel> cpu power needed for the GUI and to go around the multitasking
[13:55:46] <Loetmichel> or is the raspi to slow
[13:55:47] <Loetmichel> ?
[13:55:49] <cradek> Loetmichel: dozens of people have asked that question and there are hundreds of messages about it on the mailing lists
[13:56:00] <Loetmichel> ah, i see
[13:56:37] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, I know... make it an iPhone app!!!!
[13:56:50] <Loetmichel> let me guess: the essence of the answer is: "do it and tell us about it!"
[13:57:06] <cradek> suggest more reading, less guessing
[13:57:08] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: an android app isnt SO far gone... ;-)
[13:57:41] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: We'll see when you write it!
[13:57:43] <Loetmichel> cradek: i simply dont know where to get that mailing list... nor do i have a forum acc
[13:58:10] <cradek> for a web archive, gmane is probably the least bad:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user
[13:58:45] <cradek> and
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel
[13:59:09] <Jymmm> cradek: Hey wait... do you still have that Altera that you can port lcnc to?
[13:59:12] <Err> you could use an 8-bit uC to offload some of the real-time constraints, if you wanted
[14:00:09] <Jymmm> Eh, one arduino per axis
[14:00:35] <Err> yeah, I dunno about the arduino - but a part with motor control hardware could probably work it out
[14:00:46] <Jymmm> Then use jepler's cnc etch a sketch for the display
[14:00:48] <archivist> Jymmm, there are times you should just be quiet
[14:01:24] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[14:01:44] <Loetmichel> i thin i have waked a demon i dont want to know ;-)
[14:01:47] <Loetmichel> +k
[14:02:11] <andypugh> I think that the answer is that LinuxCNC has been made to run on an RPi, but it is a bit short of CPU to run Axis well. It may work ok with Keystick, or with a web-server gui.
[14:05:04] <Jymmm> I've been around here long enough to hear all the can lcnc use xyz. There was the pluto, but the HW mfg or whatever fubared that, then RTAI group was playing games for a while asking for donations, then ubuntu took a crap, so now the next fad is arduino, arm, android, etc. If it was to move to "something" I'd rather see it move to embedded platform, then you can use anything you damn well wanted for the front end. Maybe even embed the lcnc
[14:05:04] <Jymmm> core into fpga directly
[14:06:22] <Err> Jymmm: there was a discussion here just recently (February) about de-coupling the real-time parts from the UI and core engine entirely, which would allow an embedded unit to control the machinery while a stock, non-real-time linux box could be the front-end (and do all of the file parsing, configuration, UI, etc)
[14:06:28] <Err> that was on the dev mailing list
[14:08:12] <Jymmm> Err: the "decoupling" as you call it has sorta always been there. Axis, TK, keystick are all UI's that can been running concurrently on networked boxes
[14:09:04] <Err> Jymmm: yes, but the core still requires real-time linux
[14:09:06] <Jymmm> maybe PCW can chime in on what it would rake FPGA wise
[14:09:26] <Jymmm> s/rake/take/
[14:09:40] <Jymmm> Err: Eh, MS-DOS is real time.
[14:10:09] <Jymmm> QNX is Real Time
[14:10:39] <Err> yes ?
[14:10:40] <Jymmm> I'm sure there are others beyond RTAI for embedded purposes
[14:11:26] <andypugh> Loetmichel: You probably wnt this message:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/8728/focus=8729
[14:11:43] <Jymmm> I could be mistaken, but I dont think you need a RT Kernel if the core is in an FPGA
[14:12:01] <Err> from what little I've seen, I think you do - because linux is still in the control loop
[14:12:18] <Err> (the FPGAs do the drive controlling, but the feedback of the PID loop is in software)
[14:12:56] <Err> ...this is where my knowledge of the entire architecture falls down - it should be pretty easy to pull the remainder in, but I'm not certain of that. You also have to coordinate axes simultaneously, and I'm not sure how that works.
[14:12:58] <andypugh> Jymmm: Yes, and LinuxCNC can now use Xenomai and RT_PREEMPT.
[14:13:11] <Jymmm> My laser doesn't and I know this because I have to wit for a cycle to finish after I hit PAUSE =)
[14:13:17] <Jymmm> wait
[14:15:31] <mrsun> ahh yeey my plunger for the bullgear works perfectly ... the lathe becomes totaly silent when i do a cut compared to before when it clocked and docked and sang me a very uneven song while cutting :P
[14:15:48] <mrsun> and nice to not have to remove a pin every time i need the backgear ;P
[14:18:58] <Jymmm> Here ya go $200
http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/HW-SPAR3AN-SK-UNI-G.htm
[14:21:30] <Jymmm> vga, usb, ethernet
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc244/leonardoaraujo/image106303.jpg
[14:27:00] <Jymmm> cradek: Interesting, but not cheap...
http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/AES-S6NITX-LX75T.htm
[14:27:15] <Jymmm> cradek: ATOM board + FPGA board
[14:27:45] <Jymmm> That is also Spartan 6, not 3
[14:29:10] <Err> the ZINQ stuff would be the right target, I think - ARM Cortex-A(something) and a Spartan(something) all on one die
[14:29:31] <Err> either that or the Altera Cyclone V SoC family (same deal - Cortex A(something) and Cyclone V on the same die)
[14:29:48] <Err> the cortex could easily run linux with a reasonable GUI, etc. and the FPGA could bang out all timing, etc
[14:30:05] <Err> such an effort just requires a lot of talent on both sides to do the decoupling as needed and write the HDL
[14:30:21] <Jymmm> Err: I doubt OpenGL would be considered "reasonable gui"
[14:31:18] <cncinator> how do i set fixture on a axis?
[14:37:23] <skunkworks> cncinator, ask your question differently...
[14:37:57] <cncinator> on a single acis, how do i setup a fixture?
[14:38:28] <skunkworks> I don't know what you mean by fixture.. Do you mean - set the axis to a certain location?
[14:39:02] <cncinator> i want to zero my Z axis
[14:39:44] <skunkworks> ah - you want to use - 'touch off'
[14:40:00] <mrsun> does 1 hobber replace all involute gear cutters? (all 8 ? ) =)
[14:40:13] <mrsun> for one module that is :P
[14:40:18] <skunkworks> cncinator,
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/axis.html#_manual_control
[14:40:30] <skunkworks> look at touch off
[14:41:24] <cncinator> thx
[14:42:45] <IchGuckLive> cncinator: where are you from in the world
[14:49:58] <mozmck> Err: I've looked at the ZYNQ for that and it does look interesting. The fact that it takes a 10-layer board to use on of those chips is a little daunting from the hardware perspective though.
[14:51:43] <mozmck> It seems like it might be even more interesting to make the core of lcnc run on a bare metal embedded system (no linux), and have the gui almost completely external.
[14:56:23] <andypugh> mrsun: Yes
[15:00:52] <PCW> 6 layers should be fine for ZYNQ
[15:02:25] <IchGuckLive> im off i plasmad the hole day and i Realy need to shower BY
[15:03:36] <PCW> I think separating the RT portion is a mess unless you have enough floating point/RAM to import all of HAL and motion
[15:05:36] <PCW> (and FPGAs are not the most cost efficient at FP)
[15:07:15] <mozmck> PCW: you might could do it in 6, but IRCC they said at the Avnet Xfest I was at that the ZedBoard is 10 layer, and they had to work to get it down there.
[15:08:35] <PCW> probably autorouted it
[15:08:46] <mozmck> could be
[15:09:19] <archivist> takes hours to clean up after an autorouter
[15:09:29] <archivist> days even
[15:09:30] <PCW> The bad thing about the ZYNQ is that they dont have a 1 mm pitch BGA except for the bigger ($$$) chips
[15:09:47] <mozmck> I think the ARM side of the zynq has FP? So it could run that part of it.
[15:10:06] <mozmck> What pitch are they - smaller?
[15:10:10] <PCW> Yes
[15:10:16] <PCW> .8 mm
[15:10:21] <mozmck> fun
[15:10:27] <PCW> yes
[15:11:08] <PCW> Yes the (dual) core is a A9 with NEON FP
[15:12:29] <PCW> the nice thing for general applications is that the FPGA/CPU bandwidth is very high and that the CPU has 2x GigE
[15:15:07] <mozmck> It looked like a nice chip. The only reason I would think to remove the linux dependency is to streamline things and make realtime easier. Maybe even use FreeRTOS or something. Or try and port RTAI to ZYNQ - like I or anyone else has time for any of that...
[15:16:28] <PCW> Yes but even with linux if its only runs realtime and Ethernet its will likely not be in the way much
[15:17:19] <mozmck> probably so. maybe even RT-PREEMPT would work - especially with the FPGA to handle stuff.
[15:18:01] <PCW> besides you dont need a base thread and there are simple schemes to get sub usec jitter when you just have a servo thread
[15:19:22] <PCW> so even high performance systems (say 10 KHz servo thread) could be accommodated
[15:22:34] <PCW> Ha beat the Xilinx tools into submission and got asynchronous smart serial running at 50 MHz on the Spartan II boards (noticeably warmer FPGA chip)
[15:23:42] <mozmck> what is smart serial?
[15:24:48] <PCW> Its little processor --> AUR FPGA gismo that communicates to our remote I/O cards
[15:25:03] <PCW> s/AUR/UART/
[15:25:21] <mozmck> I see. 50 mhz is fast serial!
[15:26:03] <PCW> Its just the processor/UART clock (normal sserial baud rate is 2.5 MB)
[15:26:15] <PCW> (though 10 is possible)
[15:30:38] <PCW> before it was running at33.3 MHz (PCI clock) but that did not allow 10 MB and slowed the CPU unnecessarily
[15:30:40] <PCW> I changed things so that the module can run asynchronously with the host interface bus.
[15:30:41] <PCW> This makes a big difference on the Spartan6 PCI cards (was 33.3 MHz vs 100 MHz now)
[15:44:15] <andypugh> mozmck: It may be worth bearing in mind that LinuxCNC works perfectly adequately just as it is.
[15:45:18] <mozmck> ? I wasn't insinuating it doesn't.
[15:45:46] <andypugh> I wasn't implying that you were :-)
[15:45:53] <mozmck> ok
[15:46:10] <andypugh> But it's easy to get hung up on fixing problems that aren't there.
[15:46:49] <mozmck> oh, yeah. not thinking of fixing problems, but making it work on a small embedded system. which might really be creating more problems :)
[15:57:21] <Jymmm> PCW: what about BIG MATH instead of FP ?
[15:57:52] <PCW> If you want to re-write motion and all the comps, sure
[15:58:14] <Jymmm> Well, if it's being embedded, gonna have to wlak thru the code anyway
[15:58:37] <Jymmm> but wiulf big math be the solution?
[15:58:39] <Jymmm> would
[16:00:18] <Jymmm> PCW: Loetmichel said he was bored anyway, and since he started this mess, he should be the one to audit the code =)
[16:01:17] <PCW> walking through the code (motion especially) is rather a euphemism
[16:02:47] <Loetmichel> ?
[16:05:46] <PCW> andypugh: Gilbert got 2 key rollover added but I dont know if its in a releaseable state
[16:07:39] <andypugh> I am going to be working on N-key rollover this evening, as I have decided to add matrix scanning to my module.
[16:08:04] <andypugh> 2-key is good though, it means you can jog in two directions.
[16:08:16] <andypugh> Or use a midifier key for faster
[16:11:58] <PCW> I have a request on sserial driver
[16:12:53] <andypugh> Hmm?
[16:19:34] <mrsun> ough gear cutting on a shaper seems like a pita =)
[16:19:56] <mrsun> if you need a disk of the "pitch diameter" ? for every size gear to cut them :P
[16:20:16] <Loetmichel> mrsun: straight gears: not at all
[16:20:37] <mrsun> Loetmichel, but you need to rotate the gear while it moves along the X axis ? :)
[16:21:35] <Loetmichel> you need a rotating table which can cope with teh shaper forces, right
[16:21:44] <Loetmichel> but then its relatively easy
[16:22:03] <mrsun> but found something, using a wire to turn the gear while it moves along X
[16:22:21] <mrsun> and to move the gear at the right velocity you need to have a disk of the right diameter for just that gear? :)
[16:22:23] <Loetmichel> you dont HAVE to move around x
[16:22:40] <mrsun> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69m2cDaqvY
[16:23:15] <Loetmichel> lut grind your shaper tool ti the "negative" tooth and shape ONE tooth, rotate the blank one toot, shape the next one
[16:23:27] <Loetmichel> and so one until all tooth done
[16:23:50] <mrsun> Loetmichel, well grinding a tool to the right involute shape is a pita? :P
[16:24:06] <mrsun> using that methode all you have to do is grind one angle on each side of the tool :P
[16:24:23] <Loetmichel> mrsun; not that bad
[16:24:43] <Loetmichel> thats what a CNC wire edm is for ;-)
[16:24:59] <mrsun> yes but i do not have one of those machines .. nor do i have a shaper tho but :P
[16:25:32] <mrsun> and shouldnt that methode give a more true form for each gear size ? compared to a tool ground for 18 - 24 teeth ? :)
[16:27:37] <PCW> andypugh sserial driver request is when you have a error bad enough that you disable the channel you should mask off the bit in the doit command for that channel
[16:39:07] <uw> anybody from hungray in here?
[16:39:08] <andypugh> OK, seems reasonable.
[16:51:40] <PCW> currently if stop complaining about the channel but keeps sending so remote watchdog is kept alive
[16:55:45] <andypugh> Ah, I se.
[17:01:04] <andypugh> I clearly recall running PyCAM. I just can't recall on what patform..
[17:01:53] <andypugh> It could have been native on the Mac, or on a VM, or a VNC session.
[17:04:08] <andypugh> Aha! I found the screenshot I recall posting. That helps.
[17:32:15] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[18:01:19] <r00t4rd3d_> did anyone buy Battlefield 3 and sick of playing and wants to give me their key :)
[18:23:17] <bpuk> if andypugh is about: did you ever upload the code for the UART version of your resolver interface? can only see the quadrature version on the wiki
[18:25:11] <andypugh> No, I don't think I did.
[18:26:25] <andypugh> As it needed a special Mesa firmware, and a dev version of LinuxCNC, and a HAL driver that I lost, I am not sure it is that useful to anyone, not even me
[18:28:06] <bpuk> ah - that's fair. Did working directly from rawcounts rather than quadrature provide enough of an advantage that it would be worth me repeating? or just stick with quad
[18:28:37] <andypugh> It is a _lot_ better.
[18:29:04] <bpuk> that answers that question then :D. Ta
[18:29:37] <andypugh> But my interface board stopped working, and the Mesa resolver card suddenly looked a good idea.
[18:29:54] <andypugh> (I meant that serial is a lot better than quad)
[18:30:32] <andypugh> I think my 1uF surface-mount capacitor, the size of a grain of rice, might not have been a 5V device.
[18:32:16] <andypugh> bpuk:
http://pastebin.com/YH24i2SC
[18:32:18] <bpuk> (yup, I figured that.) mmm. I'm not sure the 7i49 is the best fit for me atm (assuming that's the one you're thinking of)
[18:32:31] <bpuk> don't know what happened there, my client auto-blocked for some reason
[18:32:48] <andypugh> i tried to send a file, it rarely works
[18:33:21] <bpuk> what ADC resolution did you end up with - 12 bit I'd guess?
[18:33:45] <andypugh> I used 8-bit ADC for speed and ended up with 10-bit angles
[18:34:57] <andypugh> To be honest I think that the Arduino interface is fine for sinusoidally commutating a motor, but it's a bit noisy for position control.
[18:35:26] <andypugh> So, if you want it for a spindle, it will work. For an axis it might need work
[18:35:41] <bpuk> the context is: I went a bit nuts on ebay and have ended up with a 1.6 kw resolver feedback servo + a pair of 100w servo's and drives (encoder). Planning to use the big one for the spindle, but want to get the resolver working on the bench first
[18:36:23] <andypugh> Do you want one of the PCBs, or do you already have one?
[18:36:24] <bpuk> but since I have no arduino based kit I'll probably port over to an MSP430 - which I do have a fair number of spare.
[18:36:37] <bpuk> I'll just breadboard up
[18:37:04] <andypugh> If bpuk means you are in the UK then I can post you a spare board
[18:37:26] <andypugh> Heck, I can post you a fully-populated one with an unknown fault :-)
[18:37:48] <andypugh> (But I guess it is the filter cap)
[18:37:54] <bpuk> heh - I'll pass on the unknown fault one :P but the unpopulated one sounds good
[18:39:00] <bpuk> actually, if memory serves you're somewhere near slaithwaite?
[18:40:59] <andypugh> No, I am in Essex, but my parents live in Slaithwaite
[18:41:28] <bpuk> ah-ha - hence my confusion. Slaithwaite is about... two stones throws away from me.
[18:43:42] <bpuk> but regardless. Due to the mix of feedback methods I don't really want to sink on a pure resolver board - hence the interface.
[18:44:56] <andypugh> I am using a 5i23, so it would be possible to use a 7i49 + one of the encoder boards. If you had deep pockets.
[18:45:21] <ds3> Make startup disk is sure slow
[18:46:13] <bpuk> 5i20 at the moment, have two slots of the three used, with a... 7i37TA and a 7i47S. Need to order and connect up an 8i20
[18:51:28] <bpuk> should be able to connect up the encoders to the 7i47 - and use it for step/dir output for now. not sure on the 8i20
[18:53:22] <andypugh> You need the 7i44 I think, but then the world is your oyster as far as IO goes.
[18:57:45] <bpuk> aye, the breakout from that would be handy - I'll have to think about that one (well, until payday)
[18:58:39] <PCW> You can use a 7I47 differential input/output pair for sserial (though the pinout is weird)
[18:59:52] <bpuk> and that was the answer I was hoping to hear. Thanks PCW
[19:00:36] <PCW> the is a 7I47 is just a 12 channel RS-422 interface with a pinout thats optimized for encoders
[19:00:37] <PCW> so if you dont mind a funky pinout it will do
[19:01:20] <bpuk> tbh, I'm using a custom bitfile as it is - pretty much every pinout I have is funky
[19:21:58] <bpuk> or, and this is a crazy thought. I could buy a 7i44, a 8i20 and another 5i20 - then bench test it properly before gutting the machine
[19:23:57] <PCW> Ha! nothing can go wrong...
[19:24:15] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[19:24:20] <ReadError> aspire 4 come in yet?
[19:25:30] <bpuk> oh, and I have a spare 2.2 kw 100V output transformer (plus appropriate caps and recifier) sitting there to provide isolation.
[19:25:44] <bpuk> so yeah, may actually be a good idea :D
[19:26:34] <PCW> isolation is nice whilst poking about with the hardware
[19:26:56] <bpuk> ayup.
[19:28:24] <PCW> dont get too cocky with 360VDC
[19:29:10] <bpuk> not again anyway
[19:29:56] <PCW> we exploded a 8I20 when testing because we had a 120V desklamp as the brake and forgot to take it of at 360V
[19:29:58] <bpuk> ah, DC. No - I've always been careful around that. AC... one or two mistakes there
[19:30:02] <bpuk> ouch
[19:30:38] <PCW> 120V bulbs tend to short and arc at 360V we found
[19:31:19] <bpuk> the motor has a nameplate rating of 230V - mains here is nominal 220 (varies in practice from ~195 to ~265) - so I might need to step down slightly anyway
[19:31:43] <PCW> REAL bright for a moment though
[19:32:11] <bpuk> I bet!
[19:32:55] <PCW> that should be fine (the ACV is DC-BUS/sqrt(2))
[19:34:07] <bpuk> for some reason I thought rectified DC was AC*1.141. must have switched mult/div there
[19:34:21] <PCW> It is
[19:35:17] <bpuk> so stepdown to 160v ish? (I think my brain has given up tonight)
[19:36:19] <PCW> so 230V AC X sqrt(2) --> 325 DC --> which is back down to 230VAC
[19:36:42] <andypugh> No, you will end up with about 320V if you rectify the mains. The motor won't care, and the 8i20 will be happy.
[19:37:30] <PCW> yeah you need the 325V to generate the 230VAC at the inverter output
[19:37:55] <PCW> beside the 8I20 is a current control device so even 400V is OK
[19:37:56] <bpuk> ah - brain has now caught up. so straight rectified is fine. ta
[19:39:21] <PCW> 400VDC
[19:39:23] <PCW> 400VAC in would be bad (one customer tryed it)
[19:49:29] <bpuk> did the breaker blow first, or the board?
[19:50:00] <PCW> board (8200 uF cap)
[19:50:38] <PCW> 'nite all
[19:50:42] <bpuk> night
[20:12:22] <bpuk> night all
[20:14:50] <andypugh> Ooh!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aciera-F3S-Milling-Machine-/251243069611
[20:14:58] <andypugh> That's still cheap
[20:26:26] <Jymmm> jdh: Did you recommend a battery charger from hobbyking once?
[20:26:49] <ReadError> i did maybe
[20:26:57] <ReadError> the accu 6 is decent
[20:27:08] <Jymmm> looking
[20:27:17] <ReadError> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__7028__Turnigy_Accucel_6_50W_6A_Balancer_Charger_w_accessories.html
[20:28:20] <Jymmm> ReadError: will that work with protected 18650's?
[20:28:43] <ReadError> oh not sure
[20:28:47] <ReadError> it will charge most chemistry
[20:29:31] <Jymmm> but "packs", doens't mention individual protected cells
[20:30:02] <Jymmm> ReadError: there is no "sense" plug on it
[20:30:59] <Jymmm> ReadError: I'm really looking for a ac/dc/usb output charger for 18650 and niMh
[20:31:23] <ReadError> oh wait for jdh then
[20:31:56] <Jymmm> ReadError: hang on a sec, I'll show you what I mean
[20:37:29] <Jymmm> ReadError: of course I can't find it now
[20:40:12] <Jymmm> ReadError: Kinda like this
http://dx.com/p/ultrafire-wf-128-uk-plug-battery-charger-for-18650-17670-16340-aa-aaa-18350-149012
[20:40:35] <Jymmm> ReadError: but also nimh/nicad
[20:43:12] <andypugh> With a proper manly BS plug.
[20:43:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: ?
[20:44:11] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_1363
[20:44:29] <Jymmm> oh gawd no
[20:44:47] <Jymmm> US two prog for AC
[20:45:19] <andypugh> It's the Worlds Best Plug, apart from being rather huge.
[20:45:29] <Jymmm> I want to be able recharge solar and ac
[20:45:53] <Jymmm> so I need a rapid or rapid/slow charger
[20:46:11] <Jymmm> as well as from 12vdc and 5vdc
[20:46:41] <Jymmm> but also provide 5vdc via usb port on the charge powered by the 18650's
[20:46:44] <andypugh> There is an attempt to commonise the EU plugs, but it is permanently stalled on tha fact that anything else will be less safe than the UK plug, but nobody really wants anything quite so huge.
[20:47:16] <Jymmm> heh
[20:47:26] <Jymmm> twist lock =)
[20:48:25] <andypugh> Fully-shielded socket holes (opened by the earth pin, and interlocked so that a pointy stick can't do it) and an internal fuse (so that a cable smaller than the fixed wiring is safe) are hard to argue against.
[20:49:25] <andypugh> Of course the latter point is moot when the owner puts a 13A fuse in a plug with a 3A cable coming out of it)
[20:49:37] <Jymmm> lol
[20:50:24] <andypugh> But at the same time is bothers me to see 3A cables plugged into EU sockets when you know the upstream breaker is 30A
[20:50:44] <jdh> perhaps the cable is to protect the fuse.
[20:51:00] <Jymmm> or what he said
[20:51:19] <Jymmm> I always protect my fuses with tinfoil!
[20:52:09] <jdh> I have no non-oem lipo chargers
[20:52:10] <Jymmm> and .22lr
[20:52:31] <Jymmm> jdh: ?
[20:52:43] <Jymmm> what do you have?
[20:53:29] <jdh> only Li I use is laptop/cell/etc
[20:53:40] <Jymmm> ah
[20:53:52] <andypugh> This is interesting, though. Many shops sell devices to put into a mains socket ostensibly to make them safer. Bit as the sockets already have shutters, these devices are actually relatively dangerous (as they provide small children with a handy tool to open the shuutters).
http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk
[20:55:03] <jdh> I would like one of these Lithium batteries though:
http://www.silent-submersion.com/Products/Viper/Viper.html
[20:55:54] <Jymmm> $4000 battery?
[20:56:12] <jdh> nah, LiFe is $1000, LiPo is $1740
[20:56:31] <Jymmm> Ready to dive, to our knowledge the Viper LiFe is the least expensive lithium DPV in the world at only $4250. This includes the VENOM 3 speed electronics.
[20:56:43] <jdh> that's the scooter with the battery.
[20:56:48] <Jymmm> ah
[20:56:55] <jdh> I already have the scooter, with a NiMH battery
[20:57:22] <jdh> kids have been sticking things in outlets for a hundred years. Do any of them ever get hurt?
[20:57:38] <Jymmm> jdh: Only ONCE =)
[20:58:04] <jdh> you never stuck anything in a wall outlet?
[20:58:22] <Jymmm> Only intensionally
[20:58:32] <jdh> me too, it was a screwdriver
[20:58:49] <jdh> 6 holes in a normal outlet... most of them do nothing
[20:58:54] <Jymmm> No, My lighter was empty and I needed to light a cigarette
[20:59:55] <jdh> one of the many perils of smoking
[21:00:45] <Jymmm> take apart a wooden pencil, break graphite into three pieces. Stick two into the socket not/neutral. Twist toilet paper around the middle of the third piece. touch to the other two. FIRE!
[21:01:03] <Jymmm> and a blown CB
[21:01:15] <Jymmm> works every time
[21:01:47] <Jymmm> 110 socket. no idea on 220
[21:04:55] <andypugh> With the resistance of pencil lead, it probably looks like a feasible load.
[21:05:45] <andypugh> (again, why small wires to small devices plugged into 30A mains should have more fuses in the chain)
[21:06:24] <andypugh> What size is the typical US breaker?
[21:06:52] <jdh> 15 or 20
[21:06:56] <Jymmm> residential 15a
[21:06:59] <cradek> normal outlets are almost always 15
[21:07:02] <Jymmm> some are 20
[21:07:15] <andypugh> So, you have one breaker per socket?
[21:07:19] <cradek> hahaha
[21:07:22] <Jymmm> per circuit
[21:07:23] <jdh> not even close
[21:07:24] <andypugh> And all wired radially/
[21:07:28] <cradek> we wish
[21:08:20] <cradek> 15A runs 3-4 outlets and maybe some ceiling lights, pretty much randomly
[21:08:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: we have GFCI circuits/outlets in kitchen, bathroom, and outdoors
[21:08:47] <Jymmm> per code
[21:08:52] <cradek> a house generally has two 240v outlets, for dryer and electric oven
[21:09:01] <jdh> 3-4 outlets? I have way more than that on one circuit
[21:09:26] <Jymmm> Heh, I have 304 outlets in one gang box =)
[21:09:29] <Jymmm> 3-4
[21:09:31] <cradek> yeah, that's the random part :-)
[21:09:52] * Jymmm hides the 16 outlet power strip
[21:09:58] <jdh> and that was back when copper was cheap
[21:10:30] <Jymmm> jdh: it's still cheap, you just gotta know who to follow =)
[21:10:32] <cradek> I've shuffled them around in my house - still can't run the toaster and microwave together, but that's the only remaining problem
[21:11:17] <Jymmm> lol, I hae every outlet mapped to each CB and a floor plan drawn out
[21:11:53] <cradek> I have an envelope with some notes on it by the breaker box...
[21:12:10] <andypugh> In the UK we have something which is almost clever, and partly stupid. We typically have a ring main. One for upstairs, one for downstairs. It came in when copper was expensive after the war. So, you have a 50A breaker and 30A wires in a ring, out the fuse box, round to every 13A socket on the floor, then back to the fuse box. So, every socket can get power through two routes, and you get 60A capacity from 30A wires, an
[21:12:11] <andypugh> 50A breaker.
[21:12:12] <Jymmm> They wired this place funky...
[21:12:21] <jdh> I have some stuff written in sharpie
[21:13:06] <cradek> andypugh: wild.
[21:13:23] <andypugh> The problem is, if the wire breaks, every socket stilll works, and you don't know that you now have a 50A breaker and 30A wiring.
[21:13:35] <Jymmm> part of the LM goes into the garage, pary of the kitchen goes to the dining rom, the other half of the dining room goes to bedroom1, the other half of bedroom1 goes to bedroom2
[21:14:11] <andypugh> I am not a fan of ring-mains.
[21:14:23] <Jymmm> all the ceiling lights are on one circuit
[21:15:05] <Jymmm> then there's one 20A circuit fore the garabge disposal alone
[21:15:12] <Jymmm> nothing else
[21:15:23] <jdh> I think that is a code requirement
[21:15:33] <Jymmm> ah
[21:15:55] <andypugh> Jymmm: That's partly good. I think current UK regs require lighting and power to be in seperate ground-fault breakers, so that the lights stay on when your vacuum cleaner explodes.
[21:15:56] <cradek> I got a gas range (partly) so I could have that power to run central AC
[21:16:19] <jdh> potdeaw
[21:16:36] <jdh> wonder wtf that was
[21:17:15] <Jymmm> Where's the datasheey damnit!
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/10-PCS-CS213-SOT-23-6-Li-Ion-Polymer-1Cell-PROTECTOR/608112_524541241.html
[21:17:18] <cradek> probably your password
[21:17:23] <andypugh> (or, in may case, the workshop lights stay on when the VFD pops the breaker, so I can find the fuse box without using my shins to find machine tools in the dark.
[21:17:46] <jdh> nah... putty often makes me mispaste stuff though
[21:17:48] <cradek> yes I'm definitely a believer in separate light circuits for the shop
[21:20:32] <jdh> I have a inside panel that is only 90? amps. When I run my compressor in the summer, it sometimes trips that panel feed (water heater and dryer on same panel)
[21:27:10] <andypugh> You have an effete mains voltage. If you were running 440V 3-phase you would only need 15A
[21:28:48] <jdh> I'd love 3ph for a compressor
[21:29:32] <andypugh> Does the compressor have a relieving valve?
[21:29:41] <jdh> yep
[21:30:02] <andypugh> So, it starts under no-load?
[21:30:26] <jdh> mostly. It has auto-drains on the high pressure stages. They are NO valves
[21:31:40] <jdh> I wired it so my DP start button closes the contactor and keeps the auto drains open as long as you hold it in.
[21:32:01] <andypugh> Cunning
[21:32:38] <andypugh> But I guess the auto-switch isn't as cunning?
[21:33:11] <jdh> it is just a timer. drains for n seconds every 15 mins
[21:33:47] <andypugh> Watch eBay for a hydrovane. Quiet, powerful.
[21:34:05] <jdh> 300 bar compressor
[21:34:19] <jdh> afaik, no 300 bar hydrovane
[21:35:34] <jdh> I bought a little PLC for it, did the ladder for it, but decided it made it too painful to debug
[21:35:44] <andypugh> Ah, no. Diving cylinders?
[21:35:57] <jdh> yep
[21:36:45] <andypugh> Not the typical industrial compresor then
[21:37:10] <tjb1> Anyone an electrician or have installed an electrical panel before?
[21:37:20] <jdh> nah, filtration and oil + parts are way too costly for normal use.
[21:37:44] <jdh> but, there are often good deals on used ones but they are typically 3-phase
[21:38:19] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Towelie/Photo%20Mar%2015%2C%2010%2021%2006%20PM.jpg
[21:38:24] <ReadError> been a busy beaver tonight
[21:38:31] <andypugh> jdh: VFDs are cheap, and soft-start
[21:39:00] <andypugh> tjb1: What do you mean by "Electrical Panel"
[21:39:09] <tjb1> The panel with the breakers
[21:39:22] <jdh> never seen a cheap one that did 5hp or more without 3-phase input
[21:44:07] <andypugh> tjb1: Which panel, where?
[21:44:20] <tjb1> Main service panel in a house
[21:46:21] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I know nothing about your local regs, and only a bit about mine. I have fitted less than 4, which is a phrase including none. I have no qualifications.
[21:46:43] <tjb1> Just wondering about bus bars
[21:46:54] <tjb1> I have 4 wires coming in, red black white and green
[21:47:18] <jdh> the hot bars alternate. red on one, black on the other
[21:47:27] <tjb1> The new box currently has both bars connected together but the old doesnt so I can just remove the jumper bar and connect the ground bus to the case
[21:47:40] <tjb1> and put all grounds on one bar and all neutrals on the other
[21:47:48] <jdh> oh, those bars
[21:48:15] <jdh> why remove the jumper
[21:48:36] <tjb1> Well in the old box they arent connected
[21:48:49] <jdh> aren't they both connected to teh box?
[21:48:50] <tjb1> and since I have 4 wire feed I assume that they should be separated
[21:49:16] <tjb1> no
[21:49:25] <tjb1> both are isolated, it came with a screw to connect the bar to the box
[21:49:44] <jdh> oh. I've only been in two of mine, they were both connected
[21:49:47] <tjb1> in the old box, the neutral bar is isolated and the ground is part of the case
[21:50:18] <tjb1> From what else I have read in sub panels they have to be separate but in main panels they can be connected
[21:50:39] <tjb1> I'll just follow the old one
[21:51:27] <jdh> mine is a subpanel. It's 20 years old though
[21:52:27] <tjb1> This is a box with screw in fuses with like 3 circuits per fuse
[21:52:46] <tjb1> Idiot who did it before has white wires going to power and red to ground on the 240v lines
[21:53:01] <jdh> heh, that could be painful.
[21:53:34] <tjb1> So I wont be able to just rip them out and go….going to have to check every wire and label
[21:53:43] <andypugh> That's wrong is it?
[21:53:52] <tjb1> yes
[21:54:00] <jdh> it is here.
[21:54:08] <tjb1> 240 should be black-black on power or black-red
[21:54:12] <andypugh> You use balck for live and white for neutral, I think?
[21:54:13] <tjb1> white is always neutral
[21:54:22] <tjb1> green/uncoated is ground
[21:54:38] <andypugh> In the UK we used to have blak neutral, red live.
[21:54:53] <tjb1> makes more sense
[21:55:06] <tjb1> in DC, red is usually hot and black is usually ground
[21:55:14] <andypugh> Then it went to blue neutral, brown live.
[21:55:38] <tjb1> colorful wiring over there
[21:56:03] <jdh> you should see their money!
[21:56:19] <tjb1> heh
[21:56:37] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, what are all those?
[21:56:38] <andypugh> Then we commonised with the EU, so now black is always either live or neutral.
[21:56:49] <tjb1> live or neutral?
[21:56:55] <jdh> good thing they got that sorted out
[21:57:19] <tjb1> still bad since neutral is a current carrying wire
[21:57:25] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d: quad parts
[21:57:31] <ReadError> hey did you get aspire 4 yet?
[21:57:39] <r00t4rd3d> no
[21:58:36] <r00t4rd3d> its a paid upgrade
[21:59:15] <tjb1> oh you havent found the free one yet? :P
[22:00:11] <ReadError> the demo*
[22:00:42] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d doesn't use demos
[22:00:57] <ReadError> *cough cough wink*
[22:00:58] <andypugh> http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/cable-colours/flyer.cfm?type=pdf explains. Single phase is unambigous, but three-phase our old red-yellow-blue + black neutral becomes either brown-black-grey + blue neutral or brown brown brown + blue neutral.
[22:03:57] <tjb1> I don't want to get confused
[22:03:57] <tjb1> Send me that link after I do the panel :)
[22:03:57] <andypugh> Blue was always neutral on single phase, and brown always live, and if you have all the wires it is clear enough, but why did we actually need to change?
[22:03:57] <andypugh> Bloody EU, changing things just because that is their job, not because they need changing.
[22:47:52] <r00t4rd3d> finally got that stupid 300 word poem done
[22:49:07] <ReadError> pics or lies
[22:52:16] <r00t4rd3d> wet with stain atm
[22:52:58] <tjb1> your camera?
[22:53:50] <r00t4rd3d> everything but
[22:54:08] <tjb1> exactly so go take a picture
[22:55:03] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: There was a young man from Honshu
[22:55:04] <andypugh> Who tried limericks in haiku,
[22:55:04] <andypugh> But
[23:05:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/57cDod7.jpg
[23:06:00] <ReadError> whats the gelstain for?
[23:06:06] <ReadError> doesnt soak in like a normal stain?
[23:06:38] <r00t4rd3d> yeah but i sand it off
[23:06:46] <r00t4rd3d> after then letters dry
[23:06:50] <r00t4rd3d> the*
[23:07:23] <r00t4rd3d> none of it is glued, i just put it in the bar clamps for the pic
[23:07:29] <r00t4rd3d> i have a frame for it also
[23:08:34] <ReadError> i need to figure out how to copy a part/toolpath in aspire
[23:08:36] <ReadError> seems like a PITA
[23:08:47] <r00t4rd3d> what do you mean
[23:08:59] <ReadError> im training right now, to change my sleep schedule from waking up at 5am
[23:09:03] <ReadError> til like 7-9pm
[23:09:12] <ReadError> tired :(
[23:09:46] <r00t4rd3d> what you mean copy a part
[23:09:55] <ReadError> so i import a dxf
[23:10:00] <ReadError> make the toolpath
[23:10:03] <ReadError> then i want to plot it out
[23:10:12] <ReadError> or save the part/toolpath
[23:10:26] <ReadError> you would think, hey jack, i can select all this, and paste it
[23:10:30] <ReadError> but nogusta
[23:10:35] <r00t4rd3d> yeah you can
[23:10:38] <ReadError> it copies just the vectors
[23:11:01] <r00t4rd3d> in the tool path menu on the right
[23:11:05] <r00t4rd3d> 3 line of icons
[23:11:18] <r00t4rd3d> 3rd
[23:11:26] <r00t4rd3d> you can copy the tool paths also
[23:11:35] <r00t4rd3d> or tile them
[23:13:01] <ReadError> then it makes a new profile
[23:13:20] <ReadError> oh i see
[23:13:26] <ReadError> then i just select the dxf
[23:13:40] <ReadError> i need 4 son
[23:14:15] <r00t4rd3d> i would just copy and paste the vector then redo the tool path for them
[23:15:19] <r00t4rd3d> use the Edit Toothpath and select the new pasted vectors, calculate
[23:17:15] <r00t4rd3d> i should send you the dvd and tutorials
[23:18:42] <nephfl> hello
[23:18:47] <ReadError> oh word
[23:18:50] <ReadError> you got em r00t4rd3d?
[23:18:59] <ReadError> im about to need to plan out some big sheets
[23:19:15] <ReadError> 24x24"
[23:19:17] <ReadError> or 12x24"
[23:19:20] <r00t4rd3d> yeah but its 3.2Gb
[23:19:29] <ReadError> anonfiles?
[23:19:40] <r00t4rd3d> 500Mb limit i think
[23:19:53] <r00t4rd3d> and it would take me 8 years to upload 3gb
[23:20:27] <ReadError> where did you get it?
[23:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> i got it with my software
[23:23:41] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[23:24:06] <ReadError> grrr
[23:24:19] <r00t4rd3d> google and gmail is not fucking working for me for shit
[23:24:35] <r00t4rd3d> really starting to piss me off
[23:25:48] <andypugh> Google is fine for me, but CNCzone is _awful_
[23:26:10] <andypugh> it seems that all is not well in the intertubes
[23:29:54] <r00t4rd3d> seems the cnczone admin cant stop fucking with the site
[23:53:59] <andypugh> The CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! database has encountered a problem.
