#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-04

[00:15:03] <Loetmichel> mornin#
[00:18:47] <r00t4rd3d> nigh#
[02:10:19] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:16:11] <mk0> is there any difference between G1 x5 and G1 x5.000?
[03:16:57] <archivist> some wasted 0
[03:17:30] <toastydeath> archivist does emc handle 5 as the 5.
[03:18:08] <toastydeath> that's way better than fanuc, which defaults decimalless numbers to the maximum decimal place possible
[03:19:07] <archivist> internally they are stored in the same type
[03:19:22] <Jymmm> binary!
[03:19:48] <toastydeath> haha
[03:19:59] <Jymmm> 101
[03:20:03] <Jymmm> 0101
[03:20:08] <toastydeath> 8675309
[03:20:16] <Jymmm> Ok jenny
[03:20:35] <Jymmm> you slut!
[03:20:52] <archivist> toastydeath, you are perhaps confused by what fanuc are telling you
[03:21:04] <toastydeath> ?
[03:21:58] <archivist> defaults decimalless numbers to the maximum decimal place possible, it is also storing all numbers in one type
[03:22:14] <Jymmm> type casting
[03:22:26] <archivist> not really
[03:22:34] <mk0> still can not understand is 5=5.000? won't it go e.g. 5.006? :)
[03:22:46] <Jymmm> 5 (int) to float (5.00000000)
[03:23:28] <archivist> 5 is equal to 5.however many 0 the internal number format can handle
[03:24:19] <Jymmm> Right, but it sound slikw what toastydeath is syaing if someone inputs a 5 (int), internally it's being type casted to a float.
[03:24:34] <toastydeath> fanuc stores everything as an int/long
[03:25:02] <Jymmm> How is 5.0006 int/long?
[03:25:03] <toastydeath> and if you type 5, it stores it as 5. Unfortunately, that's .0005 inches, because that's just what they do
[03:25:09] <toastydeath> 50006
[03:25:13] <toastydeath> is an int
[03:25:30] <Jymmm> oh, they are using BIG math
[03:25:32] <toastydeath> ya
[03:25:47] <toastydeath> and if the system is on high precision mode, it's even worse
[03:25:58] <toastydeath> because then 5 is like .0000005
[03:26:02] <toastydeath> or something
[03:26:14] <toastydeath> "Why isn't the mill moving"
[03:26:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, adding machine can do that.
[03:26:49] <Jymmm> like finacial is 50 =becomes 0.50
[03:26:53] <toastydeath> yeah
[03:26:58] <Jymmm> 150 == 1.50, etc
[03:27:34] <Jymmm> I'd suspect there is a setting for that.
[03:27:51] <toastydeath> there is, but it's only like two modes
[03:27:56] <toastydeath> tenths and millionths
[03:28:00] <Jymmm> It's meant for convienace of operator input
[03:28:10] <toastydeath> no way, it's the most annoying as fuck thing. it's for safety
[03:28:24] <toastydeath> they assume you were fat fingering things
[03:28:32] <Jymmm> lol
[03:28:33] <toastydeath> fanuc has a lot of defaults that just assume fat fingering
[03:28:51] <Jymmm> Well, annoying is better than fingerless
[03:29:31] <Jymmm> Speaking of fingerless, I think I want this http://www.amazon.com/MTECH-USA-MT-092-14-Inch-Overall/dp/B0060E57M6/ref=pd_sim_sg_4
[03:29:32] <toastydeath> i had a co-worker who crashed the machines every time he set one up
[03:29:33] <toastydeath> it was great
[03:29:39] <toastydeath> (re: fingerless)
[03:29:58] <toastydeath> aw, i thought you were going to post like, biker gang gloves
[03:30:17] <mk0> pipol
[03:30:25] <Jymmm> Nah, already have them
[03:30:41] <mk0> should i write x5.000? or is it enough x5?
[03:31:42] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Not a bad price for it
[03:32:15] <Jymmm> decent reviews, takes some abuse
[03:33:06] <toastydeath> you could make hundreds of pairs of fingerless gloves
[03:33:25] <Jymmm> I have em already
[03:33:36] <Jymmm> oh with the knife, I use scissors
[03:34:00] <toastydeath> oh
[03:34:47] <DJ9DJ> but dont cut the gloves while your fingers are inside :/
[03:35:00] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: why not?
[03:36:10] <DJ9DJ> might end in pain and blood ;)
[03:36:46] <Jymmm> thats what the sewing machine and tequila are for
[03:37:27] <toastydeath> be sure to use a coverlocker
[03:37:54] <Jymmm> then how will I lube the machine?
[03:38:13] <toastydeath> wat
[03:38:23] <Jymmm> I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an industrial sewing machine
[03:38:37] <toastydeath> i got one, it's baller
[03:38:51] <toastydeath> i made a mistake and got a 4 thread serger rather than a straight stitch, though
[03:39:26] <Jymmm> how did you do that? You do a lot of serging?
[03:39:55] <toastydeath> I had a little home sewing machine
[03:40:01] <toastydeath> and figured hey, if i can do straight stitching
[03:40:12] <toastydeath> it would make things faster to be able to single-pass seams
[03:40:36] <Jymmm> Cool http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/3626913467.html
[03:40:44] <toastydeath> and it's true, it takes like thirty seconds to do the major seams on any article of clothing now
[03:40:45] <Jymmm> I used one of those many moons ago
[03:40:47] <toastydeath> HOWEVER
[03:40:53] <toastydeath> 80% of the time is everything else
[03:41:13] <toastydeath> i should have got the 6000 stitch/min straight stitch instead of the 6000 s/min sergr
[03:41:15] <toastydeath> *serger
[03:41:51] <Jymmm> crap http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/3652565947.html
[03:42:02] <toastydeath> haha
[03:42:07] <toastydeath> good shit, that right there
[03:42:19] <Jymmm> not at $950
[03:42:26] <toastydeath> also, you could EMC the machine - a lot of machines have servo drives now
[03:42:38] <toastydeath> that's one of the downsides of my machine, it has two speeds
[03:42:43] <toastydeath> because it's a clutch driven deal
[03:43:26] <Jymmm> double crap http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/3648029301.html
[03:43:45] <toastydeath> ya, bottom of the barrel for used industrial machines is like 600-700
[03:44:49] <Jymmm> Hmmm http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hsh/3656634463.html
[03:45:03] <toastydeath> ..not an industrial machine
[03:45:16] <Jymmm> No, but it is a Janome
[03:45:20] <toastydeath> let me tell you though, a 1/2 or 3/4 hp motor will drive a needle through anything
[03:45:36] <toastydeath> i could probably sew thin gauge stainless
[03:46:21] <Jymmm> 600 denier nylon webbing, about 8 layers
[03:46:39] <toastydeath> I could sew about a half inch of hard denim
[03:46:44] <toastydeath> which is all that will fit under the foot
[03:46:48] <toastydeath> sew + cut
[03:46:55] <toastydeath> the needles are the weak link
[03:47:09] <toastydeath> never tried webbing
[03:47:18] <Jymmm> I want to sew some custom sheaths
[03:47:37] <toastydeath> also something to watch out for, not sure how much you are into industrial machines
[03:47:48] <toastydeath> BUT the drive bar and other shit has to be changed out for different weights of material
[03:48:01] <Jymmm> I'm not at all actually
[03:48:06] <toastydeath> usually 2 or 3 sets of drive equipment
[03:48:11] <Jymmm> ah
[03:48:17] <toastydeath> ultralight/sheer, medium/general use, and then ultra-heavy
[03:48:39] <toastydeath> on the positive side, there's a thousand totally interchangable foot types across most machines
[03:49:05] <toastydeath> so you can put a double or triple-folding foot and adjust the fold width
[03:49:13] <toastydeath> and you don't have to pin edges and seams anymore
[03:49:27] <Jymmm> I dont pin as it is =)
[03:49:36] <toastydeath> haha you're probably WAY better than i am
[03:50:05] <Jymmm> Doubtful, just dont do a whole lot.
[03:50:18] <Jymmm> or very basic stuff.
[03:51:03] <Jymmm> toastydeath: 1HP sewing machine http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/3617954013.html
[03:51:10] <toastydeath> get it
[03:51:28] <toastydeath> let me tell you, i wish for nothing more than being able to switch my serger out for a straight stitch machine.
[03:51:29] <Jymmm> toastydeath: TAG! You're the horse!
[03:51:31] <toastydeath> just a basic thing
[03:51:57] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Now, get to work you jackass!
[03:52:02] <toastydeath> hahaha
[03:53:24] <toastydeath> it's near 5 am
[03:53:27] <toastydeath> i am going to bed, goodnight
[03:53:34] <Jymmm> My climbers rated webbing I just tie. But I want to sew thinner stuff
[03:53:41] <Jymmm> G'Night
[03:55:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8 jymmm
[07:18:39] <korsi> hmm linuxCNC isn't currently suitable for w-edm?
[07:22:54] <korsi> or is it?
[07:23:49] <archivist> I know people have wire foam cutters, only a small step to wire edm
[07:31:37] <Jymmm> archivist: Say what? Isn't that like saying a dremel is a small step to a BP ?
[07:35:49] <archivist> no
[07:39:03] <archivist> the path you have to follow is similar
[07:40:09] <Jymmm> Oh, your talking trajectory is a small step?
[07:42:01] <Err> EDM is normally positioned via a servo based on arc current, though, right? there is no real 'feed speed' other than keeping a constant current between the wire and work?
[07:42:42] <korsi> i read somewhere there wsa a problem with goin back wards when wire shorted to to tooled piece
[07:44:39] <korsi> but i read too that someone is developing the w-edm feature. Anyone knows how it is goimg?
[07:48:40] <Err> the wire should never short to the tooled piece, or else your feed is broken
[07:49:00] <Err> (because that would/could cause a spot weld, which would be very difficult to remove without breaking the wire)
[07:49:34] <korsi> hmm ok.
[07:51:32] <Err> from what I understand, the feed on a wire EDM is primarily controlled by working current - if the working current reaches some threshold, movement *must* stop until the current falls (meaning that all material nearby has been cut away); the travel of the wire is secondary
[07:52:21] <skunkworks> Err, linuxcnc at this time doesn't have a way to backup. that being said - I know one person that just used adaptive feed (adjusting the feedrate based on the spark gap)
[08:00:30] <korsi> skunkworks: is there some documents about the adaptive feed thing? I have drilled some holes with arduino controlled small 70v sink-edm and now we are trying to make it w-edm
[08:03:23] <skunkworks> motion.adaptive-feed IN FLOAT
[08:03:23] <skunkworks> When adaptive feed is enabled with M52 P1, the commanded velocity is multiplied by this value. This effect is multiplicative with the NML-level feed override value and motion.feed-hold.
[08:03:35] <skunkworks> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
[08:03:51] <skunkworks> all it is is a pin in linuxcnc that you can do with what you please
[08:04:09] <korsi> ok thank you
[08:10:49] <JT-Shop> cool
[08:21:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Avoid Papua New Guinea BBQ's
[08:24:31] <Tom_itx> first hand experience?
[08:24:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BuC48AjhQ
[08:25:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: See video ^^^
[08:27:36] <Tom_itx> they should limit it to convicted criminals
[08:27:59] <Jymmm> Witches and for revenge
[08:28:28] <Err> skunkworks: I'm not certain that you really need to add the ability to back up, exactly - just make the fine-positioning of the servo twitch (although I guess it needs to know what axis on which to twitch)
[08:28:39] <Err> I'm not familiar enough with the guts of linuxcnc, but the concept seems pretty straight-forward
[08:29:37] <Err> korsi: any information on your sink-edm's construction? sounds like an interesting unit, if it can be reproduced inexpensively
[08:31:44] <Jymmm> bamboo knives; interesting
[08:39:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: So yeah, sorta criminals.... Never ate humans for hunger. only for payback, sorcery, or revenge
[08:40:18] <korsi> Err: i had just a stepper motor moving a brass rod i used as "drilling bit". I used 70v stored to 44uf capasitor. Arduino measured the voltage; if its over 60 it gone forward and if under it gone backwards. there were freely flowing water from a canister flushing the drilling waste away. nothing fancy, just a very crude test setting:p we are planning better water system for the w-edm.
[08:43:08] <korsi> i dunno about cost but i'd think its under 100€ we had the parts lying around so did'nt have to buy anything. There were no prope attachment for the work piece
[09:03:39] <Err> korsi: what was your power supply feeding the cap?
[09:04:25] <Err> ...and you used water for cleaning fluid, and not a petroleum-based medium? Did it flash-boil or generate a lot of hydrogen and oxygen?
[09:15:49] <korsi> Err: i had two adjustable max 35V 2A lab powersupplys. Imo it didn't flash-boil nor generate noticeable amounts of gases. the spark energy was quite low so it went quite peacefully. Currenly we do not have proper cleaning fluid recycling system built and for safety reasons we are planning staying with water based cleaning fluids.
[09:15:54] <archivist> Err, there may be a few designs on the net as a number of model engineers make similar
[09:40:53] <skunkworks> pcw_home, the 5i25 performed flawlessly - pete is very happy.
[09:41:20] <skunkworks> He is also happy with axis. (he was using the bdi emc1)
[09:41:43] <skunkworks> He machined all day sunday
[09:58:18] <Err> korsi: cool
[09:58:34] <Err> korsi: how large of a diameter is your 'bit' and how fast does it travel?
[09:58:58] <Err> archivist: yeah, I think I've seen some in the past - I'm just curious to hear first-hand experience
[10:09:00] <korsi> Err: it was 3mm brass rod. And the work piece was also brass. Travelling speed was very slow imo. 5mm took about 20 min. We didn't have proper flushing cause the bit was a rod; not a pipe. After first few millimeters traveling speen decreased fast and and water became conductive so caps didn't charge propely.
[10:12:31] <Err> interesting - that's about what my experience is, but it was a one-shot case study
[10:12:42] <Err> we had an EDM machine in a university class I took, and it was incredibly slow
[10:18:04] <korsi> I am making this project for Finnish school of watchmaking. luckily our workpieces are not too large. However the surface quality should be quite accurate.
[10:24:39] <archivist> watchmaking...tiny :)
[10:27:33] <korsi> yeah:P the s-edm was planned for removing broken threading bits(mostly 1,2mm) from custom watch covers. and w-edm would be nice when customizing movements
[10:29:04] <archivist> I make the odd watch part when requested
[10:33:39] <R2E4> I have my 5i25/7i77 up and running and now am starting to plan the bridegport upgrade., and wiring. I am going to use existing servo's. Can I use the existing BEI encoders? I have a Bridgeport r2E4 series 1 boss 9.
[10:48:55] <korsi> archivist: how small pieces can u make? Customizing a movement belongs to watchmakers studies, so there are not much money in this business here. Poor studens:p
[10:52:04] <archivist> korsi, a few examples http://gears.archivist.info/
[11:04:57] <korsi> archivist: i gotta say really nice gears:)
[11:05:14] <archivist> thanks :)
[11:07:49] <Err> fascinating website
[11:09:02] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:27:56] <IchGuckLive> hi all Around the Blue Globe
[11:28:10] <R2E4> Who says its blue?
[11:28:54] <IchGuckLive> the green
[11:28:55] <skunkworks> R2E4, what are the specs on the encoders?
[11:28:58] <IchGuckLive> B)
[11:29:25] <R2E4> The resolution is not grand..... Let me look
[11:29:25] <IchGuckLive> R2E4: did the mill arive ?
[11:29:49] <IchGuckLive> encoder have normaly 2500
[11:30:05] <R2E4> No, it was postponed. ITtis coming on the 16th. i do have the 5i25 and 7i77 installed and working.....:-)
[11:30:27] <IchGuckLive> without the mashine !
[11:30:50] <IchGuckLive> what did you purchase for the servos
[11:31:48] <R2E4> What I menat by working is the cards are installed and linuxcnc has started up....hehe, I am using the bridgeport servo amps existing.....
[11:33:08] <R2E4> 250 ppr
[11:33:32] <IchGuckLive> thats low
[11:33:59] <R2E4> I see alot of people replacing them.
[11:34:43] <R2E4> The manual says .0005 per step with them.
[11:34:46] <IchGuckLive> what is the tread and is therea gear mounted
[11:35:19] <cradek> 1000 counts for .1" is .0001, just like your old control had
[11:38:06] <skunkworks> per step is odd - wonder if that is from the stepper version
[11:38:10] <cradek> if you intend to continue using inches that is a perfect match
[11:38:46] <cradek> yes I think the stepper version of the BOSS had .001 full steps
[11:38:58] <skunkworks> cradek, did you use the original encoders?
[11:39:05] <cradek> of course, they're perfect
[11:39:23] <skunkworks> heh - what kind of Ferror did you get down to?
[11:39:25] <R2E4> Did you connect them directly into mesa board?
[11:40:07] <cradek> R2E4: surely to a 7i33 or equivalent, it's been a while
[11:40:30] <R2E4> ok, I am connecting them to a 7i77.
[11:40:48] <pcw_home> If they are 5V and quadrature they should just work
[11:41:00] <cradek> yes they are 5v differential quadrature
[11:41:16] <IchGuckLive> Does every servo stage run without connecting the encoder to it encoder only to mesa ?
[11:41:52] <pcw_home> Brushless drives usually feed the encoders through
[11:42:08] <pcw_home> since they use the encoder for commutation
[11:42:14] <IchGuckLive> that is why i asked
[11:42:32] <skunkworks> those should work great
[11:43:07] <skunkworks> pcw_home, did you see above - the 5i25 worked great when he hooked it up to his bridgeprot
[11:43:11] <skunkworks> port
[11:43:15] <IchGuckLive> my teststage that made not one turn since 1year of action (maybe it wars broken at the arivvel) got encoder in and out
[11:43:22] <pcw_home> Brush type drives normally have no use for the encoder (Some rare ones use it for velocity feedback)
[11:44:02] <skunkworks> yeh - some amc drives you can use the encoder for velocity feedback. Our amc drives allow for that.
[11:44:03] <pcw_home> Thats good, I added the Rutex pinout to the standard 5i25 pinouts
[11:44:16] <IchGuckLive> i lost about 300Euros on servo test and no turn at all just a side tick and error
[11:44:17] <skunkworks> pcw_home, great! thanks
[11:44:59] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files//emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0143.jpg
[11:45:04] <R2E4> Thanks pcw for your help. I am waiting for the iron to arrive.
[11:45:31] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: brushless drives can be pretty tricksy
[11:46:14] <pcw_home> R2E4:welcome
[11:46:16] <R2E4> +cradek: Those are the ones I have.
[11:46:21] <cradek> unfortunately can't see the VDC but iirc it was 5
[11:46:28] <cradek> since it says LED
[11:46:37] <IchGuckLive> im not giving up i will see at some time aat least 1 commanded tur of the 300Euro Driver and Motor
[11:46:38] <cradek> old bulb encoders were often 12v, those are good to replace
[11:47:01] <cradek> does yours say 5volt on it somewhere?
[11:47:29] <R2E4> yes, I am trying to find the pics of mine. I do remember it saying 5v though.
[11:48:17] <skunkworks> do those have index?
[11:48:20] <cradek> yes
[11:48:25] <skunkworks> ncie
[11:48:27] <skunkworks> nice
[11:48:44] <cradek> 250-ABZC
[11:48:57] <skunkworks> what is c?
[11:49:14] <cradek> it was a real servo machine, not crap, so it had index...
[11:49:17] <cradek> I don't know :-)
[11:49:21] <skunkworks> heh
[11:49:56] <IchGuckLive> C mewans differantial
[11:50:09] <cradek> aha
[11:50:12] <IchGuckLive> V is line
[11:50:20] <IchGuckLive> in europ
[11:53:17] <IchGuckLive> what is the max encoder length
[11:53:39] <IchGuckLive> or is there a standard servo cable length limit
[11:54:43] <IchGuckLive> limit is the manufacture cable supply
[11:58:58] <R2E4> They have a shaft right?
[11:59:18] <cradek> probably, who knows. don't remove them and it won't matter :-)
[11:59:33] <R2E4> hehe.....
[12:00:24] <R2E4> looking on the bei website the ABZC is Channels: ABZC=Dual with index and complements.
[12:00:31] <cradek> yay
[12:00:44] <cradek> complement! IchGuckLive was right
[12:00:48] <cradek> I've never heard it called that
[12:01:31] <R2E4> I thought it was wine and cheese the complements.
[12:01:33] <IchGuckLive> cradek: how does the hal_input modul development
[12:02:30] <cradek> IchGuckLive: sorry I don't understand your question
[12:02:40] <R2E4> Thats another checkoff. Don't have to worry about the encoders, wire them right in the board.
[12:02:52] <IchGuckLive> the component that reads trhe USB inputs
[12:03:03] <cradek> R2E4: your whole retrofit is simple wiring
[12:03:42] <cradek> ... and mounting mechanical crap, which is the hard part
[12:05:06] <cradek> when we did ours, we had another mill to use, but back then the mesa docs didn't have the mechanical drawings yet...
[12:07:23] <R2E4> The mechanical mounting is easy for me. The issue I am going to have is disconnecting the existing controller and connecting the servo amps to the 7i77 card.
[12:07:45] <R2E4> I have yet to find that information.
[12:08:04] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files//emc/bridgeport-r2e3/imag0135.jpg
[12:08:43] <cradek> see the screw terminals in the center there? I think they're even marked aren't they? there's one for each amp.
[12:09:01] <R2E4> yeah
[12:09:06] <cradek> what information are you missing?
[12:09:27] <cradek> I bet you're only missing hubris :-)
[12:10:29] <cradek> seb_kuzm1nsky: didn't we modify a resistor on each of the amps to get them to tune? do you remember the symptom we were solving?
[12:10:42] <R2E4> I am trying to find on the schematics where I would connect the wires to the 7i77. the encoders i can figure out just the servo amps.
[12:11:18] <cradek> are you saying the screw terminals in my photo aren't marked? I don't remember and my picture sucks
[12:11:48] <cradek> I do remember we had full wiring diagrams for the old control
[12:12:10] <R2E4> I have the original schematics and about 10 books....hehe
[12:12:32] <cradek> ok then I think you need to ask much more specific questions
[12:12:48] <R2E4> theoretically would only need the 0-10v connections to the amps and the encoder wires going to the 7i77, the rest I can remove.
[12:13:21] <cradek> yeah, other than that you need enables, maybe fault outputs?
[12:13:29] <cradek> you need to do something smart with your estop chain too
[12:13:33] <pcw_home> you need the drive enables
[12:13:49] <cradek> I believe there are contactors that short out the motor power leads on estop
[12:14:08] <pcw_home> working enables first :-)
[12:15:24] <cradek> limit switches in estop loop, then hubris, then enables
[12:15:50] <cradek> it's very easy to jam the quill on this machine
[12:16:40] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[12:17:14] <R2E4> thanks
[12:20:59] <R2E4> axis enable control?
[12:21:31] <R2E4> That looks like a voltage into the amp to enable the drive.
[12:22:02] <R2E4> what provides the control of the enable contact?
[12:25:24] <R2E4> What I have as a working model is the PMI automation bridgeport conversion drawings, but they are using new teco ampswith 7i33 and 37.
[12:26:31] <pcw_home> what is the the drive enable signal on you motor drives?
[12:35:18] <pcw_home> and disabled by following errors or machine off
[12:36:15] <pcw_home> there is actually only one logical enable for axis 0 through 4 and one for axis 5 (normally spindle)
[12:36:52] <pcw_home> (on the 7I77) there are individual enable outputs but the first 5 operate from one signal
[12:38:21] <R2E4> That answers my questions. I will check and see what the amps are looking for on the enable line./
[12:38:40] <pcw_home> they are normally driven by motions axis.0.amp-enable-out
[12:38:44] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: ypu shoudt get a Zip packet with all the nesusary files to the plug and play 7i76/77 to get it work on the livecd
[12:39:55] <R2E4> going to lunch, thanks.
[12:40:01] <pcw_home> I think pncconf has been updated on 2.5.2 so its is a lot better
[12:40:10] <andypugh> pcw_home: I just realised that matrix-keyboard support on the 7i73 needs a HAL component
[12:41:22] <pcw_home> I guess is you want N hal pins you need to take the deltas that the 7I73 sends and manipulate a table of hal bits
[12:41:50] <pcw_home> but if you what characters you need a translation table
[12:42:01] <andypugh> Well, the byte stream is unusable otherwise, AFAI can see
[12:43:38] <pcw_home> a very simple custom comp might be OK for some uses (if keycode = N do Z)
[12:43:50] <andypugh> loadrt matrixkb config="qwerty~~~~~~asdf~~~~~zxcv" maybe? Where a letter is interpreted as a character, but a ~ becomes a HAL bit.
[12:44:16] <pcw_home> HAL is not good with strings
[12:44:32] <andypugh> The puzzle is to find a way to send characters are key-presses to a GUI (which I know somene wants to do)
[12:45:09] <pcw_home> Thats awkward
[12:45:15] <andypugh> He has a matrix keyboard with configurable caps, and wants the left side for G-code entry and the right side as commands....
[12:47:00] <IchGuckLive> the standart mashine keypad goas alphabetic abcd...
[12:48:50] <andypugh> Any solution needs to be configurable. The problem is converting something in HAL to a keypress visible to the GUI.
[12:50:00] <pcw_home> I guess you could have a general HAL --> userland device stream
[12:50:01] <IchGuckLive> python component
[12:50:21] <cpresser> use hal_input?
[12:50:23] <andypugh> Yes, I think that a userland HAL component is part of the solution.
[12:50:30] <skunkworks__> hal_sendkey() ;)
[12:50:40] <andypugh> cpresser: hal_input goes the other way....
[12:50:43] <skunkworks__> (vba humor)
[12:51:04] <andypugh> skunkworks__: Sadly that isn't funny. It's probably exacty what is needed.
[12:52:49] <pcw_home> The 7I73 panel interface is great for no lag real time control but awkward for keydata
[12:54:03] <cpresser> ah, now i understand what you want to do... sounds tricky.. at lease if you want it to behave like a real keyboard
[12:54:27] <cpresser> you could implement a linux-input-interface in the hm2 driver
[12:54:42] <andypugh> Well, it _probably_ only needs to send keypresses to the MDI window.
[12:55:15] <pcw_home> HAL keydata path to the GUI?
[12:56:26] <andypugh> Maybe the Axis GUI needs a HAL pin for MDI keypresses?
[12:56:44] <andypugh> Ah, I think that is what you just said?
[12:57:15] <andypugh> Though you might want to be able to type numbers into the touchoff box too. In fact you almost certainly do want to do exactly that.
[12:58:53] <skunkworks__> hmm - cpresser might be on to something - could you emulate a hid in hal?
[13:00:00] <skunkworks__> I suppose similar to what a softkeybaord does.. (No physical hardware)
[13:00:00] <andypugh> Could _I_? ALmost certanly not.
[13:00:05] <skunkworks__> heh
[13:00:16] <andypugh> There is a sendkey daemon...
[13:00:26] <skunkworks__> ooh
[13:00:59] <cpresser> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/input/input-programming.txt
[13:06:00] <cpresser> doesnt look to complicated to hook this up in a kernel-module which also does export hal pins
[13:07:03] <andypugh> No, that does look almost plausible.
[13:09:12] <cpresser> the 'polling' could be done with a realtime thread (eg addf hal2input servo-thread)
[13:09:44] <cpresser> however, there might be a problem with x-windows.. i am not so sure how it handles a keyboard plugged in after startup
[13:10:18] <andypugh> Indeed, there may be no need to set up interrupts or anything, simply sending input_report_key might suffice
[13:11:07] <andypugh> I can see no end of fun trying sample code, which will tend to type characters in the middle of quit commands
[13:15:04] <IchGuckLive> im off By
[13:25:09] <cradek> ugh, sometimes too much information will make people not want to help you: "help me grind the tops off ICs"
[13:25:29] <skunkworks__> uh... yah
[13:25:52] <andypugh> What's wrong with that?
[13:25:54] <cpresser> tell him to use acid
[13:26:18] <andypugh> I had a job designing machines to pull off the little gold wires.
[13:26:56] <cradek> it's a thing manufacturers do when they are hostile to their customers who may later want to repair the device
[13:27:20] <skunkworks__> is that to 'dumb down' ic's?
[13:27:45] <cradek> yeah I've seen it done to remove their markings
[13:27:59] <cpresser> thats bullshit. you are right, dont help them :)
[13:51:13] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Have you seen the guy on the mailng list asking about a BP / Simodrive conversion?
[13:51:22] <JT-Shop> no
[13:51:43] <andypugh> BP VMC1000 Retrofit
[13:53:48] <JT-Shop> I don't see the mailing list during the day usually
[15:05:12] <L84Supper> http://compare.ebay.com/like/230759499174?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar <$30 for a complete UV laser and positioner that is submicron accurate
[15:07:25] <mrsun> how do they get it so precise? :)
[15:07:53] <L84Supper> limited depth of field though
[15:08:24] <pcw_home> Thats an interesting question (only if the DVD is that precise is it that precise)
[15:08:25] <L84Supper> but blu ray tracks are 200nm
[15:09:36] <L84Supper> 320nm pitch
[15:09:59] <pcw_home> I wonder if you could use some of that high res grating tape as a scale
[15:10:56] <pcw_home> otherwise I would guess you need to spin the disk and there goes your accuracy
[15:10:59] <L84Supper> blu ray pits are only 130nm
[15:11:23] <Jymmm> those are some big lenses
[15:16:15] <andypugh> I guess that it isn't that precise, it just tracks the grooves.
[15:16:38] <pcw_home> that mechanism has only has maybe a couple of mill accuracy
[15:16:40] <pcw_home> from the step drive without some kind of feedback
[15:16:42] <pcw_home> (to drive the voice coils)
[15:17:13] <L84Supper> it used for writing as well
[15:17:58] <pcw_home> Yes but not on a blank disk
[15:18:23] <L84Supper> it just adds pits
[15:19:28] <pcw_home> Right but all I am saying is all the "accuracy" is in the pre recorded reference marks
[15:19:36] <Jymmm> The minimum "spot size" on which a laser can be focused is limited by diffraction, and depends on the wavelength of the light and the numerical aperture of the lens used to focus it. By decreasing the wavelength, increasing the numerical aperture from 0.60 to 0.85, and making the cover layer thinner to avoid unwanted optical effects, the laser beam can be focused to a smaller spot, which effectively allows more information to be stored in t
[15:19:36] <Jymmm> he same area.[75] For Blu-ray Disc, the spot size is 580 nm.[76] This allows a reduction of the pit size from 400 nm for DVD to 150 nm for Blu-ray Disc, and of the track pitch from 740 nm to 320 nm.
[15:19:52] <L84Supper> it's non contact but it still has to hold itself over the track
[15:20:39] <pcw_home> yes pretty sure there are 3 dimensions of voice coil positioning
[15:21:24] <t12> insanely
[15:21:30] <t12> thre are ways around the diffraction limit
[15:21:33] <t12> (that are a giant pita)
[15:21:50] <pcw_home> (which track the pre-recorded pits on even a "blank" disk)
[15:23:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i can still remember seeing my beloved abba "first issue" CD destroy a 520 Plextor drive... i dont think that will be much more sturdy in a blueray...
[15:23:36] <Jymmm> Heh BD5 Format.... Uses DVD media with Blu Ray laser
[15:24:16] <Loetmichel> (note to seldf, OLD CDs wit visible cracks at the inner ring: NOT in a drive that can read audio with 52*
[15:24:35] <Loetmichel> *tuuuiiii* *BANG*
[15:24:51] <pcw_home> isn't that around 15K RPM?
[15:24:55] <Loetmichel> one sector of the cd has penetrated the fron bezel of the drive ;-)
[15:25:03] <Loetmichel> it is ;-)
[15:25:11] <pcw_home> Yow
[15:25:47] <Jymmm> Heh, I got fans that do 15K RPM aka Banshees!
[15:26:56] <Loetmichel> *screaaaam*
[15:27:01] <Loetmichel> the 40mm ones?
[15:27:23] <Jymmm> yeah
[15:27:28] <Jymmm> x 4
[15:27:39] <Loetmichel> we sell servers for the military in the company... with 7 40*40*30mm fans..
[15:27:51] <Loetmichel> and one 80mm ;-)
[15:28:05] <pcw_home> so at 15K rpm. CD periphery is going ~200 MPH
[15:28:17] <Jymmm> There from old 1U servers, four of them
[15:28:29] <Loetmichel> thankfully the servers are sitting in a tank so the drivers have already hearing protection ;-)
[15:29:07] <Loetmichel> the sound of these servers tarting is unreal ;-) nile a staring jet engine ;)
[15:29:14] <Jymmm> I'm still trying to find a use for them, I have about a dozen or so
[15:29:46] <Loetmichel> s/nile/like
[15:30:07] <Jymmm> The only thing I could think of is a pocket sized smelter
[15:31:56] <L84Supper> I'm trying to see what the lower limit is we can get using the blu ray laser sleds for writing. 500-700nm accuracy hasn't been too difficult
[15:32:08] <Jymmm> 24 CFM, 56dBa
[15:34:31] <Jymmm> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-15,000-rpm-Tesla-Turbine-using-hard-drive-/
[15:37:11] <JesusAlos> hi
[15:38:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Micro spud gun?
[15:38:18] <L84Supper> I've pricing lenses, microscopes and multi-megapixel cameras all day, the prices have fallen considerably
[15:38:20] <Loetmichel> ?
[15:38:34] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: usign the 15K fans
[15:38:45] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[15:38:52] <Jymmm> a spindle!!!
[15:39:14] <Loetmichel> spud gun needs volume AND pressure
[15:39:27] <Jymmm> micro table saw
[15:40:23] <L84Supper> what would you do with it?
[15:40:40] <Jymmm> veneer
[15:42:52] <Jymmm> L84Supper: saw mill for mice?
[15:43:17] <Jymmm> that would be like a 3ft blade for hu-mons
[15:43:38] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: IIRC the 40mm fans WE have have about 3W
[15:44:03] <Loetmichel> should be sufficient to saw leaves, nothing more ;-)
[15:44:24] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: For full speed, 1W for 5K RPM
[15:45:13] <L84Supper> what if you had a 100um dia table saw and the blade was 1um thick, what would you cut with it?
[15:45:43] <Loetmichel> more realistic soggestion: get some Stryrofoam, an old bicycle tube, 6 of this fans and a 3s lipo battery and build a hovercraft
[15:45:51] <Jymmm> cheese, remember it's a saw mill for mice!
[15:46:14] <L84Supper> for those in the USA that's 0.004" and 0.00004"
[15:46:30] <L84Supper> woops too many zeros
[15:46:38] <L84Supper> 0.0004" thick
[15:47:19] <Jymmm> I guess a hovercraft, but not water proof
[15:47:21] <andypugh> Confusing error message: "hm2/hm2_7i43.0: board has FPGA '3s200tq144', but the firmware in hm2/7i43/SVST4_4B.BIT is for FPGA '3s400tq144'". What that really means, I think, is that the box with the 7i43 in it isn't powered up....
[15:48:08] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: pocket air hockey table
[15:48:10] <andypugh> L84Supper: For making very short optical fibres.
[15:48:39] <pcw_home> Yes the pre-config intelligence of a 7I43 is pretty low so all it really has is a size bit
[15:49:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: Nah, it chip the fiber. wouldn't get a clean end.
[15:50:02] <andypugh> I should make the error message append "or perhaps the card is unpowered"
[15:50:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: "Got Power?"
[15:51:01] <andypugh> Annoyingly I am ssh-ing to the garage. I can WoL the PC, but not the drive box.
[15:51:11] <Tom_itx> just have a default 'ask andy' error message
[15:51:28] <andypugh> Back in a bit.
[15:51:44] <Jymmm> Better yet, open an IM dialog to andy
[15:52:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sorry man, you'll have to move to India now.
[15:52:53] <Jymmm> All emc tech support has been outsourced
[15:53:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: Or S.America, your choice.
[15:54:38] <L84Supper> a few years some grad students in Inida used coreboot as their thesis, changed all the heads to their names and got their degrees, any stories like this with EMC?
[15:54:49] <L84Supper> heads/header files
[15:55:03] <L84Supper> and headers
[16:20:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f03_1362423862
[16:22:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:31:24] <t12> L84supper: whats the goil
[16:31:28] <t12> with all the optics stuff
[16:32:08] <L84Supper> t12: submicron fabrication, 3D printing
[16:32:42] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: YOu can tell the ones who do a bit of Alpine too, as they quietly snowplough round the bodies.
[16:32:44] <t12> like cnc fab
[16:32:51] <t12> or any method
[16:33:10] <L84Supper> SLA and SLS
[16:33:58] <t12> got a target resolution
[16:34:03] <t12> or just best as possible or?
[16:34:19] <t12> i've been learning about PDMS related fab
[16:34:33] <t12> we have a lab here that can 3d print cells into larger structures heh
[16:35:09] <L84Supper> t12: smaller the better, but mainly now 700nm or so but at high speeds
[16:35:39] <L84Supper> tissue engineering as well, printing scaffolds for cells
[16:36:24] <t12> http://www.bioforcenano.com/index.php?id=295
[16:36:26] <L84Supper> but we need to print micro-nozzles to build printheads
[16:38:19] <L84Supper> also MEMS size devices out or multiple materials
[16:38:26] <L84Supper> or/of
[16:38:46] <t12> hum
[16:39:40] <L84Supper> 3dprintingindustry.com/2013/02/13/its-a-small-world-after-all-nanoscribes-3d-printed-nano-universe/ but much faster
[16:40:44] <t12> hum url not working
[16:40:59] <t12> subtractive? additive?
[16:41:03] <t12> both/either?
[16:41:25] <L84Supper> mostly additive
[16:41:50] <t12> can you do additive with ion-beam
[16:41:52] <L84Supper> http://www.nanoscribe.de/en/applications/2.5d-free-form-surfaces
[16:41:55] <L84Supper> yes
[16:41:58] <t12> i guess depends on the material
[16:42:15] <L84Supper> mostly working with photopolymers right now
[16:42:50] <L84Supper> and composites that are cured with ~400nm
[16:43:06] <L84Supper> since bluray made the parts so inexpensive
[16:45:02] <L84Supper> http://www.nanoscribe.de/en/applications/3d-micro-rapid-prototyping we will be about 100x faster
[16:45:16] <L84Supper> and lower res
[16:46:09] <t12> i wonder if superresolution imaging can be done kinda
[16:46:10] <t12> backwards
[16:46:29] <L84Supper> reverse microscope
[16:46:34] <t12> i guess making non-interferance wavefronts might be too hard
[16:46:47] <t12> or interferance ones with enough fidelity
[16:47:14] <L84Supper> lots of this got worked out over the years for semiconductor lithography but they focused on silicon
[16:48:47] <L84Supper> there is no best tech, so it's more combining different tech into one machine
[16:49:26] <AR_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181090544664
[16:49:30] <AR_> bid up please
[16:52:35] <L84Supper> i was thinking about linear positioners that use piezo's for precise short movements , but over a long distance of 500mm
[16:53:12] <t12> thats kinda rough isnt it
[16:53:18] <L84Supper> nobody makes things like that
[16:53:27] <t12> on our em's the last nm's of motion
[16:53:30] <t12> are always done by moving the beams around
[16:53:39] <t12> cause you cant position the stage back and forth to anything that reliably
[16:53:42] <t12> and thats over like 2 sq mm
[16:53:46] <t12> granted its a mechanical stage
[16:53:58] <t12> but i think at that scale even piezos have trouble
[16:54:03] <L84Supper> yes, that the issue,
[16:54:20] <L84Supper> it needs to be moved over a larger area
[16:54:45] <t12> and over 500mm you'll start to have lots of thermal problems?
[16:54:54] <t12> i guess for 500-1000nm its not so bad
[16:55:28] <L84Supper> it can be a problem if the temp fluctuates rapidly
[16:55:50] <L84Supper> but if it's held within 1 deg C not so much
[16:56:37] <t12> whats the print time like on those nanoscribe thigners
[16:56:53] <L84Supper> glacial
[16:57:13] <L84Supper> single laser
[16:59:49] <t12> phosphor everything and develop with electron beam heh
[17:02:30] <L84Supper> 125µm x 81µm x 26.8µm in just under 1min .2um features
[17:06:05] <L84Supper> sorry .6um features, it's only down to 300nm for 2d
[17:14:56] <JT-Shop> I need some clever way to rotate the beam 90 degrees with about 8" of stroke max http://imagebin.org/248981
[17:15:08] <JT-Shop> like from a bottle jack
[17:15:47] <t12> whats your plan to buy 2 oom?
[17:15:54] <t12> if thats not a secret
[17:18:23] <L84Supper> i like the leaf springs
[17:20:35] <L84Supper> t12: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120914-nanoengineers-can-print-3d-microstructures-out-of-hydrogels-in-mere-seconds.html
[17:23:54] <t12> ahh
[17:24:06] <t12> are you gonna stick with non-laser source?
[17:24:45] <L84Supper> we use more than one type of tech
[17:24:56] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You need suction jack?
[17:25:07] <L84Supper> SAL, SLA, FDM inkjet all in one
[17:25:18] <L84Supper> SLA
[17:25:31] <L84Supper> SLS
[17:26:28] <L84Supper> t12: many devices have multiple materials, and there no best tech for them all
[17:26:39] <AR_> you FDM with inkjet?
[17:26:53] <L84Supper> I missed a comma there
[17:27:31] <L84Supper> FDM and jet, not just inkjet, inkjet has a very narrow range of fluid characteristics
[17:27:41] <JT-Shop> suction jack?
[17:28:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yeah, one that pulls rather than pushes :-)
[17:28:22] <L84Supper> 20 mPas is too low for many fluids and that's where inkjet tops out
[17:28:33] <JT-Shop> andypugh: how would that help?
[17:28:44] <andypugh> Heck, they don't even exist!
[17:30:51] <andypugh> I guess you need some form of rising-rate linkage about where that big plank is, and a bottle jack.
[17:31:33] <AR_> a bottle of jack
[17:31:56] <JT-Shop> let me try and mock that up Andy
[17:32:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: Yeah, JT-Shop can mock up stuff real good!
[17:33:39] <ReadError> hows the mill AR_ ?
[17:33:45] <AR_> well
[17:33:55] <AR_> i was drawing some pictures
[17:34:06] <AR_> then engraving the drawing in a piece of wood
[17:34:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: See Also: Cannon
[17:34:25] <AR_> and i accidentally shorted the wires to the potentiometer on my spindle speed control
[17:34:36] <AR_> and blew a breaker/fried the controller
[17:34:43] <Jymmm> how?
[17:34:47] <AR_> so now im waiting on new parts to fix it
[17:34:48] <andypugh> AR_: KBIC drive?
[17:34:58] <AR_> no, treadmill one
[17:35:02] <AR_> so not very different
[17:35:05] <AR_> SCR driven
[17:35:08] <AR_> 90V motor
[17:35:14] <Jymmm> how you short the pot?
[17:35:21] <andypugh> The KBIC ones float the pot at +100V
[17:35:34] <AR_> well, i put a new one on, and didnt cover the terminals
[17:35:41] <AR_> and it touched my machine base
[17:35:46] <AR_> made a nice smoke ring
[17:35:56] <AR_> this one i measured only at 5v
[17:36:05] <Jymmm> too deep for the enclosure?
[17:36:14] <AR_> not enclosed yet :P
[17:36:28] <Jymmm> oh so just laying on the bench?
[17:36:31] <AR_> yeah
[17:36:38] <AR_> hey, it worked
[17:36:41] <AR_> till it touched metal
[17:37:05] <AR_> i cant believe they dont have protection on it
[17:37:06] <Jymmm> So does a nuclear bomb. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
[17:37:16] <AR_> i think this model was old and outdated, but still
[17:37:40] <Jymmm> AR_: They did, it was enclosed away from the operator =)
[17:38:04] <AR_> the fact that the potentiometer (that normally goes up to the control panel on treadmill) can draw enough current to throw a house breaker
[17:38:10] <AR_> is pretty bad design IMO
[17:38:49] <Jymmm> But it didn't just blow out the pot, did it?
[17:39:01] <AR_> no it blew more on the board
[17:39:10] <Jymmm> 100V @ 10mA is nothing.
[17:39:10] <AR_> nothing burned, but it doesnt work when i replaced the pot
[17:39:38] <AR_> i only measured the pot output control voltage at 5v
[17:40:03] <Jymmm> ah
[17:40:18] <AR_> it must just draw directly from the rectifier from mains though
[17:40:27] <AR_> because it threw the house breaker
[17:40:30] <Jymmm> well, maybe that was isolated till it was shorted to whatever on your bench
[17:40:31] <AR_> so i dunno
[17:41:12] <AR_> i had the board mounted and isolated from anything metal, so the only thing that shorted was the potentiometer
[17:41:34] <Jymmm> Betch ya wont been doing that again anytime soon =)
[17:41:46] <AR_> not till i fix it at least
[17:41:51] <Jymmm> rotf
[17:42:10] <Jymmm> You are suppose to LEARN from these things, not lather rinse, repeat.
[17:42:27] <Jymmm> In other words... CLEAN YOUR SHIT UP!
[17:42:33] <Jymmm> =)
[17:42:51] <AR_> lol
[17:43:01] <AR_> i'm an electrical engineer too
[17:43:09] <AR_> this is kindof embarassing
[17:43:20] <Jymmm> You cheated on the final didn't ya?
[17:43:32] <AR_> lolol
[17:43:58] <AR_> i'm even too lazy to just fix the board
[17:44:09] <AR_> i ordered some components, but i think the SCRs are fried
[17:44:10] <JT-Shop> andypugh: something like this? http://imagebin.org/248986
[17:44:22] <AR_> pulled one off to test and pulled a trace off the board accidentally
[17:44:35] <AR_> so i just bought a new controller on ebay for $25
[17:44:57] <Jymmm> I blew up a 10HP motor once. I was wiring it up to 220 3ph and connected wire #6. Well, it was actually wire #8 that had part of the label rubbed off.
[17:45:14] <AR_> loool
[17:45:34] <Jymmm> Not really my fault, but I know now to not trust wire labels.
[17:46:03] <Jymmm> Dayton motor btw
[17:46:35] <L84Supper> ...3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9 ... should have been a sign :)
[17:46:59] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Had I looked at / needed ALL the wires.
[17:47:16] <Jymmm> the rest were for 440
[17:57:57] <L84Supper> http://www.hirox-usa.com/products/mount_lens/mx_series/mx-10c.html 3500x magnification at a 10mm working distance
[18:00:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, how much force is on that pivot link?
[18:00:48] <Tom_itx> just start stripping parts off your back hoe
[18:00:49] <AR_> that is a beautiful tube containing very nice lenses, L84Supper
[18:01:36] <L84Supper> and a fraction of the cost of the Keyence
[18:02:05] <JT-Shop> well the beam weighs in at about 250 and the cylinder is 70 so 350 all up with the wedge
[18:02:45] <Tom_itx> figure the lever length to be straight when open
[18:03:51] <Tom_itx> but you're pushing it close to the pivot so the force will be more won't it?
[18:04:30] <Tom_itx> and the cylinder is on the far end of the beam
[18:06:01] <JT-Shop> yep the cylinder is on the far end from the pivot
[18:06:21] <AR_> cat the cylinder is on the far end it is whatever
[18:11:33] <andypugh> Why is youtube showong me log splitters and cannon ball moulds? A case of mistaken identity?
[18:12:12] <AR_> my identity
[18:12:17] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://youtu.be/9QXMfdBFGdo
[18:12:25] <Tom_itx> they must know JT
[18:13:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: thanks
[18:13:52] <andypugh> The jack goes under the middle pivot. (somehow)
[18:14:17] <andypugh> I _think_ that can be arranged to give a faster rise as the load decreases.
[18:15:32] <andypugh> Jacks do work on their sides if the pump is at the bottom, so you can swing them through quite a large angle.
[18:18:18] <andypugh_> FWIW the pivot lengths there are 6 for the short link, 12 for the long link and 8 from the main pivot to the top of the long link.
[18:20:32] <andypugh> Actually 10 travel though, so a bit of tweaking is needed.
[18:21:22] <JT-Shop> this seems to get me close http://imagebin.org/248991
[18:21:31] <JT-Shop> I just need to tweak it some
[18:24:35] <Tom_itx> i kinda like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pLiJMZjQDw
[18:25:03] <andypugh> For fun, if you put the base of the jack on your empty pivot hole, and the top half way up the long arm, what do you get? I do have a feeling that the jack ought to be "in" the linkage for maximum coolness (and to save adding a jack platform)
[18:28:15] <andypugh> I like this super-dangerous style of splitter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtMv7Cz0HA
[18:30:56] <JT-Shop> yea, that is a wild one
[18:31:49] <Tom_itx> the 'old' guy's works better
[18:31:50] <JT-Shop> I like this one better http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=2bVAAx3mMKY&NR=1
[18:32:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bVAAx3mMKY
[18:32:14] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yTQQzVTIlk
[18:32:27] <Jymmm> semi auto
[18:32:36] <Jymmm> ant stacks too!!!
[18:33:50] <Jymmm> heh JT-Shop and Tom_itx like the same one
[18:33:56] <Tom_itx> so i see
[18:34:37] <Jymmm> Hey, I want the damn thing to stack the wood, that's back breaking
[18:34:46] <Jymmm> Big ass pile works for me
[18:34:50] <Tom_itx> that' what kids are for
[18:34:59] <Jymmm> maybe won't season too well, but...
[18:35:04] <Tom_itx> you notice who's stacking the wood..
[18:36:18] <Jymmm> *sigh* I'm SERIOSULY cleaning out the garage, every box, every drawer, etc. Now trying to figure out what to toss out, and where to put the rest so I'll be able to find it in under 5 years =)
[18:36:39] <Tom_itx> just re'arrange it and put it all back
[18:36:52] <JT-Shop> andypugh: still trying to sort out the jack in the linkage...
[18:37:20] <JT-Shop> if it is not where you first looked, put it there when you find it
[18:37:26] <Jymmm> LOL, it seriously feels that way. Like I'm just rearranging everything. But I need to reduce by 1/4th at least
[18:37:26] <andypugh> Think Honda "Full Floater" rear suspension :-)
[18:38:11] <Jymmm> How many old rags/shop towels do I really need???
[18:38:28] <Tom_itx> i tossed out 2 bag fulls recently
[18:38:39] <Jymmm> what size bags?
[18:38:49] <Tom_itx> kitchen trash size
[18:39:09] <Jymmm> Heh, try 2x 36gal bags worth =)
[18:39:21] <Jymmm> Perfectly good for staining wood
[18:39:33] <Jymmm> tub on, toss.
[18:39:36] <Jymmm> rub
[18:39:50] <Tom_itx> send them to the fed
[18:39:56] <Tom_itx> they will make money from them
[18:40:08] <Jymmm> lol, true
[18:40:11] <R2E4> The bridgeport motor is marked 480v 3 phase. The p=schematics for the machine is marked 600volts. Does this mean I can connect 600 volts 3phase even though the motor is marked 480volts?
[18:40:38] <Jymmm> I'd trust the metal label on the motor over anything else.
[18:41:17] <Jymmm> the motor might have been replaced once too
[18:41:33] <andypugh> Nah, I would trust a bunch of strangers on the Internet with nothing to lose if it goes wrong.
[18:42:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: Hey, I got this really cool bridge for sale cheap
[18:43:16] <andypugh> No, it's alright, we already have one, it's got towers and everything.
[18:43:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: And a view of the desert
[18:44:23] <Jymmm> a bridge in the desert sounds funny.
[18:44:48] <Jymmm> ice machine in alaska
[18:46:03] <Jymmm> heater at an active volcano
[18:47:31] <andypugh> Well, it's not actually in the desert, being as it is over a lake.
[18:48:25] <andypugh> http://www.bestofboating.com/2011/09/discover-arizonas-lake-havasu
[18:54:46] <JT-Shop> this one does the job with 6" of travel on the jack http://imagebin.org/248997
[18:55:39] <andypugh> Load might be a bit scary though.
[18:55:51] <JT-Shop> I installed a 100+ year old iron bridge over my neighbors creek
[18:55:52] <andypugh> (though it always will be)
[18:55:59] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:56:26] <andypugh> How high are you lifting the centre of mass? And what is the mass?
[18:56:29] <Valen> ey andypugh, hows stuff
[18:56:44] <andypugh> Stuffs fine, though I am about to snooze.
[18:56:56] <JT-Shop> about 350 lbs total and it is about 1/2 way donw
[18:56:57] <JT-Shop> down
[18:57:04] <JT-Shop> ok
[18:57:09] <JT-Shop> goodnight Andy
[18:57:38] <andypugh> But the ratio of total moving mass x how far it is being lifted will give you some idea of the jack force.
[18:58:34] <andypugh> How about a huge torsion spring and a winch to pull it _down_? Then it cab double as a mangonel.
[18:58:37] <JT-Shop> yea, I'd bet it will be much more than the weight of the whole beam
[18:58:55] <JT-Shop> lol yea that's a good idea
[18:59:10] <JT-Shop> we can launch splits at the neighbors trailer
[18:59:35] <andypugh> Right, night all.
[19:26:38] <R2E4> Does linuxcnc or mesa 7i77 need to know about the tach on bridgeport servo's?
[19:34:39] <Jymmm> tach or encoder?
[19:37:29] <R2E4> tach
[19:38:58] <R2E4> TG is what is marked on the schematics. IT showsthe servo motor, TG which I assume is the tach and the encoder.
[19:44:49] <skunkworks> the tach goes to the servo drive to do velocity control
[19:53:51] <R2E4> You mean the interface board that connects to the servo drive. The encoders connect to the 7i77, which means I can toss the fmdc board but the output of the fmdc board goes into the IFC board which also takes input from the tach then goes to the amp. If I am leaving that boad then it will need encoder data.
[21:26:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/v56CzWL.jpg
[21:27:34] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/553120_10200398182413117_1832873148_n.jpg
[21:28:19] <jdh> that looks like hours of painfully slow plastic squirting
[21:28:24] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[21:28:36] <r00t4rd3d> now print me my googels
[21:28:39] <tjb1> 2 hours
[21:28:45] <tjb1> what size again?
[21:29:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:43655
[21:29:57] <tjb1> size
[21:32:05] <L84Supper> a few minutes by SLA
[21:33:10] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d is hard of understanding
[21:33:15] <r00t4rd3d> Z=6.1024 X=7.7658 Y=4.7638
[21:33:46] <L84Supper> it's odd how it had trouble with the layers at the eye level
[21:34:04] <tjb1> It did that a few places
[21:34:37] <L84Supper> just in the front or all the way around the head?
[21:35:22] <tjb1> I can only print 7.204" square
[21:35:41] <r00t4rd3d> what a loser
[21:35:42] <L84Supper> or was it the slicing software that rounded layer in vs out at those spots?
[21:36:01] <tjb1> L84Supper: I think the fishing line is still wearing in
[21:36:24] <r00t4rd3d> you could shorten the height of them some
[21:36:30] <r00t4rd3d> take off .5
[21:37:51] <tjb1> See how far it is out of a 259.2mm circle
[21:37:57] <L84Supper> if it was printed with wood composite filament those lines would add to the character
[23:32:56] <mhaberler> seb_kuzminsky: around? John is around too and would have time to discuss configure
[23:57:32] <r00t4rd3d> lol the pirate bay is now being hosted in north korea
[23:58:02] <Jymmm> not surprised.
[23:58:36] <r00t4rd3d> if i download something now i will probably be labeled a terrorist and have a drone overhead
[23:59:12] <Jymmm> What makes you tink you havne't been marked a terrorist long ago?
[23:59:44] <Jymmm> echelon rocks your world