#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-02-24

[02:15:04] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:36:27] <mrsun_> hmm does one dare to have a heavy chuck on a lathe that uses threads for chuck holding? :)
[02:36:37] <mrsun_> im thinking reverse when threadings sometimes :P
[02:36:59] <toastyde1th> you don't
[02:37:16] <mrsun_> dont ?
[02:37:18] <mrsun_> dont what ?
[02:37:22] <toastyde1th> if you're using an L series chuck taper, you reverse thread very carefully.
[02:37:38] <toastyde1th> because that shit can and will come off if you really go for it.
[02:38:00] <mrsun_> no not threading in reverse, but as metric threads are almost impossible to find a threading dial for i have to reverse the direction and never let the leadscrew disengage
[02:38:10] <toastyde1th> oh, that's much easier
[02:38:10] <mrsun_> so no cutting in reverse
[02:38:14] <toastyde1th> cut the threads slowly.
[02:38:22] <toastyde1th> stop the chuck
[02:38:24] <toastyde1th> reverse the lathe
[02:38:25] <mrsun_> but im afraid it will jerk the chuck lose =)
[02:38:39] <toastyde1th> ...what?
[02:38:44] <mrsun_> when you reverse
[02:38:50] <toastyde1th> stop the lathe, then reverse it
[02:38:51] <mrsun_> if the chuck is a threaded type
[02:38:57] <mrsun_> it got inertia
[02:39:01] <mrsun_> =)
[02:39:05] <toastyde1th> it has more than enough holding force to just stop the chuck
[02:39:10] <toastyde1th> don't be ridiculous
[02:39:23] <toastyde1th> most old lathes were L-nose spindles
[02:39:28] <toastyde1th> and there WERE no threading dials
[02:39:37] <mrsun_> L nose ?
[02:39:38] <toastyde1th> all threading was done without disengaging the leadscrew
[02:39:46] <toastyde1th> the most prolific threaded taper
[02:39:56] <toastyde1th> L-00, L-0, L-1, etc
[02:40:08] <toastyde1th> just like D1, D2, and A1, A2 for camlocks
[02:40:27] <toastyde1th> although A is bolted on, not cammed
[02:40:27] <mrsun_> looks like a straight thread to me
[02:41:09] <toastyde1th> if you're afraid of what people did for 3 centuries, then don't do it?
[02:41:19] <mrsun_> im just asking
[02:41:29] <toastyde1th> thread on the slowest speed
[02:41:40] <toastyde1th> and have enough runoff for the chuck to stop
[02:42:08] <Jymmm> Not take baths for 3C? No soap for 3C? Public executions for 3C? Apply Leeches for 3C ?
[02:42:26] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[02:52:52] <Jymmm> !!! NO TOILET PAPER FOR THREE CENTURIES !!!
[02:58:57] <Jymmm> Well, at least none that will leaf a rash =)
[03:14:26] <archivist> mrsun_, hand wind it back if worried
[03:16:08] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:22:07] <Loetmichel> hrhr... Fact: flies dont like my Aluminium coolant. (mix of car window deicer and petroleum in a pumpspray can) ... I just "shot" one out of the air. it was nearly dead before hitting the ground ;-)
[04:37:22] <Jymmm> I prefer WD40 and a lighter.
[05:20:25] <L84Supper> alcohol + oil ?
[05:21:15] <L84Supper> drunk and slick fly
[05:25:15] <mazafaka> alcohol dilutes oil and fat
[05:26:23] <mazafaka> Do you guys know any examples how greasy details are cleaned with washing detergent and warm water in MRO departments?
[06:22:02] <jthornton> I prefer using my Big Game Fly Hunting rifle
[06:47:22] <archivist> I like a ruler and to hear two hits, one ruler to fly and the second fly against wall
[07:53:51] <mrsun_> gaah, burs in the morse taper of the spindle .. any tip on removing them without damaging the rest of the bore? :)
[07:54:26] <mrsun_> and seem the spindle goes excentric about 0.05mm i wonder what is the cause of that :/
[07:54:35] <mrsun_> (on the surfaces the chuck registers to)
[07:57:40] <mrsun_> 0.015 is allowed so something is clearly wrong
[08:00:35] <archivist> spindle bent, not measuring in a good area, just worn, are the spindle bearings adjusted
[08:03:15] <mrsun_> bearings are adjusted to be tight but not binding, havent checked them further then that and i was also thinking of the bent spindle as the lathe has been quite abused before
[08:03:24] <mrsun_> ran for a long time without lubrication etc etc
[08:04:48] <archivist> also wear can be eccentric if the chuck was out of balance
[08:05:34] <mrsun_> the rear bearing ?
[08:05:43] <mrsun_> or the whole spindle? :)
[08:06:28] <archivist> one at the chuck end is probably most worn of the two
[08:11:13] <mrsun_> as im going to repair the gears on the spindle anyhow i will strip it all and see if the excentricity is hihger at some point between the bearings or something or something 0.05mm is a tad bit to much imo =)
[08:13:24] <andypugh> mrsun_: _what_ is eccentric? A lathe should still make round things even with a bent spindle.
[08:14:09] <mrsun_> andypugh, yes but when rechucking anything and your off 0.05mm at a absolute minimum its kinda annoying, and even if i have a deadcenter in the spindle (yes there is a burr in the spindle also) i get 0.05 - 0.1mm runout
[08:14:12] <mrsun_> on the deadcenter
[08:16:58] <andypugh> Do you expect to do much work between centres?
[08:17:23] <archivist> file/grind/wet&dry off all burrs before condemning the spindle
[08:17:27] <mrsun_> well i dont know =) still want the taper to be in condition =)
[08:17:47] <mrsun_> archivist, yes i know =) but its far in =)
[08:17:53] <mrsun_> and hard to get to =)
[08:17:57] <archivist> you can get a morse taper reamer to clean the bore
[08:18:10] <andypugh> Any job what needs re-chucking should be done in a 4-jaw, so you won't notice the problem.
[08:18:46] <archivist> assuming the 4 jaw axis is straight :)
[08:19:22] <mrsun_> andypugh, yes but i dont even get a straight surface on the front side of the chucks/jaws etc
[08:19:36] <mrsun_> everything is 0.05mm off =)
[08:19:40] <mrsun_> front side and side
[08:20:16] <andypugh> That does sounds like a bent spindle. What is the chuck mounting?
[08:20:30] <mrsun_> what it is ?
[08:20:37] <mrsun_> threaded nose with register surfaces
[08:20:46] <archivist> to fix chucks re machine back plate in situ
[08:20:57] <andypugh> I was about to suggest that
[08:20:59] <mrsun_> gonna check them more, the flat surface i found that was straight, but the other surface was 0.05mm off
[08:21:10] <mrsun_> the veritcal surface was straight
[08:21:14] <mrsun_> the horisontal was off
[08:21:37] <mrsun_> ahh remove the chuck and mount just the flange and remachine it? :)
[08:21:39] <andypugh> any particular back-plate will screw on to the same position, so skimming true in-situ should sort the chucj out.
[08:21:41] <archivist> I re did backplate last year on mine
[08:22:14] <mrsun_> it was very rough on the backside that mounts against the spindle also .. the backplate
[08:22:30] <mrsun_> not a machined surface as one would think it should be
[08:23:05] <andypugh> Make sure all the mating surfaces are clean and true though, or you will need to keep a special bit of swarf to make sure that it runs true every time :-)
[08:23:25] <mrsun_> :P
[08:23:45] <mrsun_> it is clean but like i said, i would not call it a machined surface
[08:23:58] <mrsun_> looks quite rough on the backside
[08:24:34] <andypugh> You may be able to mount the backplate the wrong way round to clean that face up. But don't let it run to the end of the thread, put a nice packer in like an old bearing race.
[08:24:47] <mrsun_> oh well, time to go do something usefull =) thanks for the tips =)
[08:24:51] <mrsun_> ahh smart!
[08:25:11] <mrsun_> so got some work to do tonight then :P
[08:28:49] <archivist> put the 4 jaw on, machine a spigot to grip with the three jaw, mount it on the spigot clean the back register
[08:29:56] <archivist> you cannot do any thing with the inner part of the register apart from clean or maybe add some shim glued on
[08:33:47] <andypugh> archivist: With the correct packer, the backplate mounted the wrong-way round should be dead parallel to the register shoulder, shouldn't it?
[08:34:34] <andypugh> It might be eccentric, as it is mounted only on threads, but that shouldn't matter.
[08:39:12] <archivist> but if the spindle is bent the register is not at right angle to the axis
[08:48:18] <JesusAlos> hi
[08:49:06] <JesusAlos> I'm full. I just ate PAELLA valencian
[08:49:46] <JesusAlos> wood fire made
[08:51:37] <andypugh> archivist: Ah. Yes.
[08:56:04] <dzon> can someone please give some hint what could be the error with my ini/hal file. I got the "waiting for s.axes" error.: http://pastebin.com/JFYKrEj3
[08:56:41] <Jymmm> wood fire?! That's a waste of natural resources. Now, a good old fashion used tire fire, that's a great way to conserve our natural resources and keep them out of the landfills!
[08:58:12] <andypugh> dzon: Has it ever worked?
[08:58:29] <dzon> no
[08:59:30] <andypugh> if you reboot and look at the output of dmesg, do you see anything about LAPIC being disabled?
[09:00:24] <dzon> will try... brb
[09:03:32] <dzon> andypugh, i found "ACPI: LAPIC (acpi_id[0x01] lapic_id[0x00] enabled)"
[09:03:51] <andypugh> dzon: Actually, I think I just wasted some of your time, as looking more carfully the RTAI parts load OK, and appear happy.
[09:04:16] <andypugh> Can you run any of the demo configs?
[09:04:21] <dzon> yes
[09:04:39] <dzon> i tred stepper and pluto servo
[09:05:04] <dzon> both run fine
[09:05:12] <andypugh> Try starting linuxcnc from the command-line, you may get a bit more information
[09:05:24] <andypugh> (just type "linuxcnc")
[09:06:28] <Jymmm> andypugh: WB Popeye
[09:07:00] <dzon> andypugh, same result: http://pastebin.com/p8GSy1LM
[09:07:27] <cncbasher> dzon:can you post your hal file
[09:09:06] <andypugh> dzon: Is there a postgui HAL file? I have a vague memory of seeing this when there was a problem with a pyvcp panel.
[09:09:55] <dzon> http://pastebin.com/LvMWY65e
[09:10:03] <cncbasher> andy iv'e seen this before , i think it's from stepconf error
[09:10:10] <dzon> i had pyvcp...bud i comment out this
[09:10:40] <dzon> this was my first idea
[09:18:46] <dzon> i took the pluto-servo example and comment out the postgui. The hal file works fine by itself.
[09:21:18] <andypugh> dzon: Are you by any chance Klemen Dovrtel with the linear motor?
[09:22:14] <dzon> Yes :)
[09:22:59] <andypugh> Ah, so you have had something working, but the current HAL file is causing a problem?
[09:24:07] <dzon> now i can move the motor (by the way, thynk you for your help).
[09:24:50] <dzon> Hal file is fine, i can move the motor and everything. But now i would like to "wire" it with axis gui
[09:26:22] * JT-Shop waves at andypugh
[09:26:32] <dzon> I just comment out my simple pyvcp gui. And try to use it with pluto-servo example...yust to tune the PID parameters
[09:26:52] <andypugh> dzon: I wonder if EMCMOT is failing to load?
[09:28:44] <andypugh> This is likely to be a bit painful, but if you put "show funct" after each loadrt line in the HAL, then you can see how far it is getting.
[09:29:24] <dzon> i did not wire any axis.0.motor-pos-cmd etc... can this be a problem?
[09:29:45] <andypugh> No, that wouldn't matter.
[09:30:18] <andypugh> can you zip up the config directory and put the file somewhere?
[09:30:40] <dzon> sure...
[09:35:19] <dzon> andypugh, http://www.filedropper.com/anoradtar
[09:40:51] <andypugh> I _think_ the problem might be the reference to [EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD in the HAL file when there is no corresponding entry in the INI file.
[09:42:42] <andypugh> No, sorry, I am looking in the wrong HAL file
[09:43:16] <dzon> the _raw was stand alone hal file
[09:44:02] <dzon> i forgot the missing .comp files i wrote, if that make any difference: http://www.filedropper.com/anoradtar_1
[09:44:42] <andypugh> I was just commenting them out
[09:49:17] -adams.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[09:49:33] <andypugh> Don't worry about that now. It is defintely getting all the way through the HAL file.
[09:49:44] <Tom_itx> andypugh
[09:49:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/andyp/
[09:49:53] <andypugh> Thanks Tom
[09:50:19] <Tom_itx> watch the rapids carefully, i'm not sure i know how they are configured on my lathe package just yet
[09:50:53] <Tom_itx> i inserted a safe start point at the beginning and told it to retract 20mm
[09:51:54] <Tom_itx> i can make changes as necesary
[09:56:41] <andypugh> That's rather odd-looking lathe code.
[09:56:53] <andypugh> (Or, rather, rather an odd lathe tool-path)
[10:01:10] <andypugh> Tom_itx: There are a few rapids straight through the material: http://imagebin.org/247963 but I think I should be able to fix those.
[10:08:28] <Tom_itx> ok so my preview was right...
[10:08:39] <Tom_itx> that will help in the future
[10:09:22] <Tom_itx> andypugh, i also ran a zigzag cut pattern if you want that
[10:09:43] <andypugh> No, you have spent more than enough time on me :-)
[10:10:06] <Tom_itx> it's all done
[10:10:09] <Tom_itx> just need to post it
[10:10:31] <andypugh> What do you mean by zig-zag?
[10:10:32] <Tom_itx> wasn't that much work anyway
[10:10:40] <Tom_itx> cut to center and back out
[10:10:45] <Tom_itx> stepping over
[10:11:06] <Tom_itx> i'll post it and you can look
[10:11:11] <andypugh> I don't think lathes normally work that way, to be honest.
[10:11:18] <Tom_itx> me either
[10:12:02] <andypugh> I am more used to seeing lots of straight conventional turning cuts that stop a shade short of the profile, then a final finishing cut, outside to in.
[10:12:10] <Tom_itx> check the spindle speed and feed also for your machine
[10:12:27] <Tom_itx> these will extend past the profile slightly
[10:12:38] <Tom_itx> i don't like code that stops short
[10:12:50] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Feb%2023%2C%207%2044%2014%20PM.jpg
[10:13:21] <Tom_itx> do you need the roundbar dimensions to start with?
[10:14:01] <andypugh> It's fine, I can work it all out :-)
[10:14:35] <andypugh> I need to make my blanks now. Just got back from holiday and not feeling particularly effective. :-)
[10:15:02] <Tom_itx> ~53mm x 176.2 on the inner one
[10:15:30] <andypugh> Thanks.
[10:15:47] <andypugh> (Trying to beat dzons config into shape)
[10:16:23] <Tom_itx> 52.58 x 206 on the other one
[10:16:46] <Tom_itx> basically 53 mm from the lathe chuck minimum for both
[10:17:03] <Tom_itx> i'd give it a bit more
[10:41:59] * JT-Shop guesses I'm out of welding wire
[10:42:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hey, do you have a tig?
[10:43:49] <JT-Shop> yea
[10:44:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What would you charge me to weld some 1/8" SS rods into rings? I can just shape them myself and ship out to you to weld up.
[10:45:07] <Tom_itx> alot
[10:45:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: The tent stake thing
[10:45:32] <Jymmm> "P" shape
[11:10:59] <andypugh> Jymmm: Souns like a good excuse to buy your own TIG :-)
[11:22:17] <skunkworks> andypugh: how was the skiing?
[11:22:46] <JT-Shop> how many is in a "some"?
[11:22:57] <archivist> 3
[11:23:18] <andypugh> skiing was great. But I am sort-of glad to be home for a spell now, after 11 airline flights this year.
[11:23:33] <skunkworks> heh - that gets old fast
[11:24:19] <skunkworks> can't wait to see the next hobbing video :)
[11:24:38] <skunkworks> andypugh: did you get any more backlash out of the rotory axis?
[11:25:12] <skunkworks> (I suppose while you were skiing?)\
[11:25:50] <andypugh> I think there is something funny going on, like the worm teeth are too shallow.
[11:26:01] <JesusAlos> ReadError: What kind of gudes use in your machine?
[11:26:13] <JesusAlos> linear guides
[11:26:24] <ReadError> extended carriages
[11:26:26] <ReadError> with abec
[11:26:27] <skunkworks> I remember you saying it got tight before the backlash was gone
[11:28:36] <JesusAlos> abec is a mark?
[11:28:42] <JesusAlos> don¡t found
[11:29:25] * JT-Shop wanders off to take a nap
[11:30:31] <andypugh> JesusAlos: ABEC is a bearing grade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC
[11:30:52] <andypugh> Only used in the US, as far as I know.
[11:34:46] <skunkworks> cradek: you sould listen to this weeks http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/ Noam Pikelny, Joe Newberry, and Bill Evans played
[11:36:49] <L84Supper> anyone ever come across a robot arm with easy access to the encoders on each axis?
[11:39:06] <andypugh> dzon: Got it!
[11:39:21] <andypugh> Your HAL doesn't call the motion functions: addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
[11:39:21] <andypugh> addf motion-controller servo-thread
[11:39:35] <andypugh> So motion never runs.
[11:58:08] <L84Supper> is there suddenly some surplus in used robots? This price is crazy low for a Staubli http://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-RX90-6-Axis-Robot-Arm-CS7-Controller-With-Motor-Drives-CablesRX-90-/350721927338?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a8a7e8aa
[11:58:42] <L84Supper> used SCARA's for <$500 on flebay
[12:05:40] <andypugh> Two for £299 here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380567796556
[12:08:06] <archivist> poor things look like they had a hard life
[12:08:23] <L84Supper> "Selling as faulty for spares or repair"
[12:09:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[12:10:35] <L84Supper> KUKU arm, some typos are great, lol http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KUKU-ROBOTIC-ARM-ZH6-1-0763-WRIST-ASSEMBLY-6-KG-/350518025173?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519c809bd5
[12:11:30] <L84Supper> the name is cast right on top in 2 inch letters and they still get it wrong in the ad
[12:15:12] <L84Supper> I was just thinking about the easiest way to control 4 or more independent sets of galvos mounted on one machine with EMC
[12:16:23] <L84Supper> if you wanted to load and run it as one job on one machine
[12:16:35] <L84Supper> but it's 4 or more in one machine
[12:16:56] <IchGuckLive> up to 12 ion the ZY axis
[12:17:18] <IchGuckLive> and X A is also 12 pices
[12:18:59] <L84Supper> you'd just have to rework the g-code if it was setup for 1 set
[12:20:47] <L84Supper> each set of galvos would have one or more lasers, so it's like having multiple tools running simultaneously
[12:21:12] <IchGuckLive> laser and emc is not a good idee
[12:21:22] <L84Supper> I haven't played with AXIS yet beyond one tool at a time
[12:21:49] <L84Supper> I'm just thinking about making it a good idea by adding the support
[12:22:04] <IchGuckLive> the laserfreak froum got so nice aplications for 4 xY scanners control
[12:22:29] <L84Supper> I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just add to EMC
[12:22:42] <L84Supper> keep the software consistent
[12:23:11] <andypugh> Can other fok see this broken engine? http://www.facebook.com/andy.pugh.1447?sk=wall&notif_t=wall
[12:23:35] <andypugh> If so, any ideas for repair? It's one of two 1915 Morris engines...
[12:23:58] <archivist> I just see a mugshot
[12:24:10] <L84Supper> laserfreak is similar to reprap, they all have a better idea that ends up FAB, free and broken
[12:24:21] <ReadError> ( If the program is too big or small for your machine, change the scale #3 )
[12:24:25] <andypugh> I did wonder. Facebook is amystery to me. I am happy to let it stay that way
[12:24:26] <ReadError> im about to do the axis.ngc
[12:24:31] <ReadError> not sure where to change this scale though
[12:24:59] <archivist> I never bothered with fb either
[12:25:49] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: its locked you need o save it to a writable location
[12:26:13] <andypugh> set to public. Does that help?
[12:26:13] <ReadError> yea i threw it in ~
[12:31:53] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: the text is from the olfd axis this is the new one from awallin no scale at all
[12:44:47] <archivist> andypugh, I am not the right kind of public :(
[12:44:57] <archivist> so NO
[12:46:51] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: why dont you just generate it new
[12:47:04] <IchGuckLive> in your size
[12:47:05] <ReadError> i just used some of my own gcode
[12:47:09] <ReadError> first cut, sucess ;)
[12:47:13] <ReadError> my holes are round
[12:47:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:47:18] <ReadError> which is always a good thing hehe
[12:48:26] <IchGuckLive> we shoudr reealy get the axis.ngc scalable
[12:48:58] <ReadError> yea
[12:49:02] <ReadError> that would have been nice
[12:57:36] <andypugh> Argh! Picasa Web Albums have been Google+-ified, so I don't seem to be able to share images there any more either
[13:01:05] <ReadError> andypugh: make an imgur.com account
[13:01:06] <archivist> andypugh, I see picasa albums from a few people
[13:01:26] <andypugh> I could link to individual photos previously, but not now.
[13:01:45] <ReadError> cant you right click and copy the image source?
[13:01:46] <andypugh> Now all I can do is share via email, which is no use for IRC
[13:02:07] <archivist> what about your own site
[13:05:22] <IchGuckLive> http://pastebin.com/Tm0jRk5Z
[13:05:33] <IchGuckLive> here is the scalable intro axis
[13:12:05] <andypugh> archivist: uploading to my own site is kind-of painful, and I need to write HTML.
[13:12:20] <AR_> just had mastercam post this file to draw some pics
[13:12:22] <AR_> http://pastebin.com/Lcjypvta
[13:12:27] <AR_> gunna test
[13:12:50] <ReadError> andypugh
[13:12:56] <ReadError> they make an index.php file
[13:13:00] <andypugh> My phone camer synchs automatically with iPhoto, and iPhoto can save direct to Picasa. That's all nice. And previously Picasa gave you a URL to use.
[13:13:01] <archivist> andypugh, there are some simple apps for homebrew web albums
[13:13:03] <ReadError> that takes all the image files, thumbnails them
[13:13:54] <archivist> I have even written one myself for a customer
[13:14:08] <andypugh> I am just about competent to write html. php is something i tried once, but can't remember.
[13:14:41] <andypugh> Until a few hours ago, Picasa worked perfectly for my needs.
[13:15:52] <ReadError> andypugh they already have them though
[13:16:02] <ReadError> you just drop the index.php in to your directory
[13:16:02] <archivist> I could possible get you part of this http://www.ashbyonline.co.uk/PhotoAlbum.php
[13:16:57] <andypugh> You don't understand! I want to moan and cpmplain, not have reasonable alternatives suggested!
[13:17:18] <archivist> hehe
[13:18:08] <IchGuckLive> AR_: this is quite rasist ngc
[13:18:17] <AR_> LOL
[13:18:29] <AR_> did you backplot it
[13:18:33] <archivist> I never have finished the index updater for my own site yet as I add pictures
[13:18:44] <IchGuckLive> AR_: yes the smilie is giid
[13:18:48] <IchGuckLive> good
[13:18:55] <AR_> i drew the face with manual splines
[13:19:00] <AR_> it came out pretty nice
[13:19:32] <IchGuckLive> the spiral is normaly 2 lines not 100
[13:19:53] <IchGuckLive> from 2.5.1 you can use r
[13:20:48] <IchGuckLive> ReadError: did it scale
[13:21:42] <andypugh> Does this work as a photo link? https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5848590119584168546
[13:21:50] <AR_> IchGuckLive, really?
[13:22:00] <andypugh> Or this? https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7o-idlwzeSo/USpdugKsemI/AAAAAAAABrc/dJvhir_06V0/s1469/830316_607776682573040_139138268_o.jpg
[13:22:04] <AR_> i just let mastercam post it, i dont really care tbh
[13:23:00] <archivist> both links work
[13:23:33] <archivist> andypugh, there is a company local to me who can
[13:23:52] <Tom_itx> that looks nasty
[13:23:53] <mrsun_> hmm spindle is straight, all the way to the horizontal register on the nose
[13:23:58] <mrsun_> there its off 0.05mm
[13:24:08] <mrsun_> so so far so "good"
[13:24:29] <mrsun_> problem is that the chuck plate also is off 0.05mm on the horizontal register where it locks into the chuck :P
[13:24:30] <andypugh> mrsun_: Machining the backplates will probably make that look fixed.
[13:24:33] <Tom_itx> andypugh, make sure they pack that in sandbags and preheat it before they weld it
[13:24:38] <andypugh> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1t_b5NE1OLM/USpdwDyK9EI/AAAAAAAABrc/WrK1bA_G6T4/s1469/856952_607775669239808_709490901_o.jpg
[13:24:49] <archivist> andypugh, we had steam pipes done there http://www.castironwelding.co.uk/contactinfo.html
[13:24:50] <mrsun_> andypugh, yes but i cant machine the register for the chuck any :P
[13:25:06] <andypugh> Why not?
[13:25:15] <mrsun_> andypugh, cause it will be to small for the chuck afterwards :P
[13:25:45] <archivist> no need to machine the register on the spindle
[13:25:54] <mrsun_> no
[13:25:58] <mrsun_> on the backplate for the chuck
[13:26:01] <andypugh> mrsun_: You don't need _much_ register. So face off enough to make a new register.
[13:26:38] <mrsun_> andypugh, then the holes for the bolts will be without a botom :P
[13:27:10] <archivist> andypugh, as I see those cracks, all repairable with real cast iron
[13:27:50] <Tom_itx> yup
[13:28:08] <IchGuckLive> but the water wil not be tight
[13:28:30] <IchGuckLive> and maybe oil also involved as inside cracks are not visable
[13:28:55] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by till tomorrow
[13:29:03] <archivist> IchGuckLive, they do a real weld
[13:30:18] <andypugh> It looks like they rebuild missing parts out of weld.
[13:31:15] <archivist> they build a muffle furnace around the job and then open a hole and gas weld with a cast stick
[13:31:40] <archivist> and not bothered how big the item is
[13:32:11] <andypugh> Hmm, how hard can it be :-)
[13:32:58] <archivist> I have done some in a coke fire....I wish I had a gas muffle like they have
[13:33:57] <archivist> the heating and cooling rate are important
[13:36:23] <andypugh> I have had some success with stainless MIG.
[13:37:02] <andypugh> (No austenite/ferrite transition, so the carbon that disolves into the weld doesn't matter)
[13:37:04] <archivist> we used a blacksmiths hearth for a small 10 inch casting, had to redo some when we got it wrong as it cracked
[13:38:11] <mrsun_> http://www.toolsandmods.com/lathe/mini-lathe-center-finder genious!
[13:38:12] <mrsun_> =)
[13:40:19] * archivist blames mrsun_ for a ticking noise in the background
[13:40:44] <mrsun_> huh ? :)
[13:41:46] <archivist> http://www.abbeyclock.com/gearing8.html
[13:43:39] <mrsun_> stop having that page up then :P
[13:45:59] <skunkworks> I have been relatively happy with piwigo.. http://electronicsam.com/gallery/
[13:46:12] <mrsun_> need to find some steel in the right size so i can make a new chuck flange :P
[13:46:18] <skunkworks> my wife uses it for all stuff baby
[13:48:22] <skunkworks> make sure your hosting can do ImageMagick - if it defaults to the php picture converter - it doesn't allow for very big pictures.
[13:55:36] <mrsun_> hell i wont even do a new flange for the current chuck ... i have a chuck a bit larger that is alot newer and in better condition =)
[14:02:35] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/174425-austins_md001_ih_clone_cnc_conversion_build.html
[14:05:43] <archivist> andypugh, the steam pipe that got welded http://ccgi.archivist.plus.com/php/showresult.php?searchv4page=1&searchstr=steam+pipe&srcdata=title&srcprog=http%3A%2F%2Fccgi.archivist.plus.com%2Fphp%2Fsearchv4.php&dir=sgood&file=rim00076&subject=612
[14:08:19] <andypugh> archivist: My friend (who the engine belongs to) thinks that that company have already done work on other instances of that engine. He is going to send the pictures to them for a quote.
[14:09:09] <archivist> they are well known apparently, and the work they did for us was good
[14:19:30] <andypugh> Should we try to do a talk/demo on LinuxCNC at https://www.emfcamp.org/wave ?
[14:48:51] <Tom_itx> who takes care of the webpage?
[14:49:14] <Tom_itx> maybe someone could add a link to the halui examples to the main doc list
[14:49:25] <Tom_itx> either i missed it or it's not there
[14:49:41] <JT-Shop> in the html docs?
[14:49:45] * Tom_itx looks at JT-Shop
[14:49:50] <Tom_itx> yes
[14:50:13] <Tom_itx> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halui_examples.html
[14:50:17] <Tom_itx> that's what i was referring to
[14:50:38] <Tom_itx> got my 'run' button working though
[14:51:21] <JT-Shop> sure enough the link is missing, I'll have to fix it in the am
[14:52:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Maybe 24
[14:53:28] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: why don't you just make 1 1/2 turns with the loop?
[14:54:53] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: so they'll be flat.
[14:55:49] <JT-Shop> wind the loop in the center
[14:55:55] <JT-Shop> be better than welding
[15:03:46] <mrsun_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik4g40eLpGE what nightmares are made of :P
[15:04:06] <JT-Shop> what dia wire is it?
[15:04:56] <Jymmm> .125"
[15:12:49] <JT-Shop> is it a perpendicular joint?
[15:14:22] <r00t4rd3d> i prefer the horizontal type
[15:14:47] <JT-Shop> r00t4rd3d: can weld them for you Jymmm
[15:16:21] <andypugh> Jymmm: Spot welder?
[15:18:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: I have a hand held propane torch
[15:19:18] <Jymmm> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/22/4013406/i-used-google-glass-its-the-future-with-monthly-updates
[15:25:33] <Jymmm> Ok cradek jepler, when you gonna write pyGlass ?
[15:35:26] <L84Supper> looks like most crashes were due to parts coming loose from the vise, clamp or chuck
[15:39:18] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRBQlrmXQp8 how many parts like this actually get made by machining?
[15:41:09] <FinboySlick> I want that machine.
[15:42:40] <L84Supper> I wonder what the total elapsed time was for that helmet
[15:47:00] <FinboySlick> Given the finish, I'd suspect quite a while.
[16:12:04] <andypugh> Not quite the same, but the suspension arms on the cars I am working on at the moment are milled from solid, in an exact emulaiton of what the forged parts would be like.
[16:13:26] <L84Supper> andypugh: would you still machine them if you could print a mould for that part in under an hour?
[16:13:56] <andypugh> They did, and hundreds of them too.
[16:19:24] <pcw_home> L84Supper here's a (small 4 axis) robot with encoders:
[16:19:26] <pcw_home> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adept-Technology-550A-SCARA-table-top-robot-arm-/121046704355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2ef220e3
[16:20:12] <L84Supper> pcw_home: yeah saw lots of SCARA's on ebay for under $500
[16:20:34] <t12> dang thats cheap
[16:20:48] <pcw_home> great if you want a circular workspace!
[16:20:51] <L84Supper> yes, saw a few more around that price as well
[16:21:14] <t12> could also just be worth it in motors and encoders?
[16:21:45] <pcw_home> not sure how the drives work
[16:21:58] <L84Supper> whats the highest flexural modulus plastic?
[16:22:31] <andypugh> Define "plastic"
[16:23:03] <L84Supper> any polymer, themoset or thermoplastic
[16:23:10] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:24:05] <andypugh> I think that the glass-filled variants win.
[16:24:05] <L84Supper> http://qepp.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?Bassnum=P1SM38&ckck=1 4.14 GPa
[16:24:38] <L84Supper> thats my next search, composites
[16:25:38] <pcw_home> carbon nanotube filled?
[16:26:04] <t12> lol
[16:26:11] <t12> made of nanotechnology!
[16:26:20] <L84Supper> yeah, the trick is getting the blend right
[16:26:24] <pcw_home> so is dirt
[16:26:26] <andypugh> matweb search for polymers on flexural modulus puts Hexcel Hexply Cyanate Resin at the top, 427GPa
[16:28:10] <t12> that was a nanotech joke
[16:28:18] <t12> science nano* funding is lol
[16:28:32] <t12> chemists rebranding surface modification as nanotech
[16:28:46] <andypugh> That seems to be the property of the composite, not the matrix, though.
[16:29:09] <Jymmm> L84Supper: whats the aplicarion?
[16:29:32] <andypugh> Neat resin is 3GPa, not that high.
[16:29:33] <L84Supper> Jymmm: 3d printing very strong parts
[16:29:48] <Jymmm> L84Supper: sheet? pellets?
[16:30:03] <L84Supper> either
[16:30:19] <L84Supper> also looking at blending my own
[16:30:22] <andypugh> L84Supper: http://www.solvayplastics.com/sites/solvayplastics/EN/specialty_polymers/Spire_Ultra_Polymers/Pages/PrimoSpire.aspx
[16:30:28] <Jymmm> L84Supper: I like glass impregnanted nylon
[16:30:50] <L84Supper> shooting for 10's of GPa
[16:31:22] <Jymmm> which is what in the US ?
[16:31:44] <L84Supper> google the conversion :)
[16:31:50] <Jymmm> no thanks
[16:33:26] <andypugh> PrimoSpire is supposedly the stiffest unreinforced plastic, at 4Gpa.
[16:33:31] <Jymmm> go check out glass impregnanted nylon
[16:34:29] <andypugh> (Which is pretty much as stiff as 30% glass-filled PEEK)
[16:35:07] <L84Supper> ideally a photopolymer
[16:35:37] <andypugh> 70% PA6/6 gives you 22GPA
[16:35:54] <L84Supper> epoxy + silica and/or carbon fiber seems to be the way
[16:37:46] <andypugh> http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=4b2ab07bf8404779a932640d2fda2fb9
[16:38:06] <andypugh> 10GPa for stereolithography
[16:38:40] <L84Supper> I can blend my own, so I'm not limited to whats already blended
[16:39:22] <L84Supper> oh yeah, thats the Somos
[16:40:20] <L84Supper> http://www.mfg.uky.edu/tech/ts/nanotool_datasheet.pdf
[16:41:10] <L84Supper> Epoxy, Multifunctional acrylate, Silica.
[16:41:22] <L84Supper> ok so i should be able to improve on this
[16:42:46] <L84Supper> http://www.rmu.edu/pdf/NanoTool_MSDS.pdf
[16:43:38] <L84Supper> Flexural Modulus 10.2 - 10.8 GPa 1480 - 1570 ksi
[16:51:24] <L84Supper> 2.8 - 9.7 GPa Flexural Modulus of Nylon 6 with 30% glass fiber fill
[16:57:40] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Still working on that 3D printer solution?
[16:58:42] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: I work on different ones all the time
[17:02:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.googlestore.com/shop.axd/Home
[17:02:25] <r00t4rd3d> learn something new everyday...
[17:03:28] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm pretty interested in the prospect of a home made laser/epoxy printer.
[17:04:07] <FinboySlick> Especially if there's decent and open print material.
[17:05:41] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: we blend all our own, there are some open formulas out there, but getting the components is rather difficult
[17:05:54] <L84Supper> or you have to buy in 200Kg drums
[17:06:00] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: You on terrorist watch lists yet? ;)
[17:06:31] <AR_> so i was drawing and then carved that test image on my machine
[17:06:31] <L84Supper> having an actual recognized lab does help a little :)
[17:06:37] <AR_> and blew a breaker
[17:06:48] <AR_> since i had my speed control on my spindle exposed
[17:06:51] <AR_> and shorted it
[17:06:58] <AR_> against my machine base
[17:07:00] <AR_> lol
[17:07:23] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: though opening a new account for a new with Aldrich was interesting
[17:07:57] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm wondering how homebrew electronics would handle the framebuffer for a laser scanned surface.
[17:08:05] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: they asked for several changes to our paperwork and then turned us dow for making too many changes to our paperwork :), but it all got settled
[17:08:34] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Ah paperwork, the bane of sane people.
[17:09:15] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: it's actually easier to buy a drum of something than just one liter, no paperwork for a drum or tanker
[17:09:54] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm thinking of the train episode on the latest season of Breaking Bad now.
[17:10:05] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: you need to convert from point cloud to polygons?
[17:11:01] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Really? I'd have thought it would be easier to scan a raster image than to fill in polys.
[17:12:18] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: why i asked
[17:13:20] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/621838643/desktop-3d-scanner/posts/412528?cursor=2309922
[17:17:18] <L84Supper> http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
[17:18:04] <roh> hm.. we got some sig laserscanner around somewhere.. i wonder how precise the data there is
[17:18:18] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: That's not quite what I had in mind though.
[17:18:20] <L84Supper> http://www.makerscanner.com/
[17:19:10] <FinboySlick> I'm assuming that one has the 3D data all sliced up. How do you realistically get a home made laser setup to scan a whole slice accurately and with good resolution? Could one really ghetto a dual spinning mirror setup?
[17:19:32] <FinboySlick> scan as in print here.
[17:19:36] <FinboySlick> Not as in grab
[17:20:23] <L84Supper> spinning mirrors aren't too difficult
[17:20:26] <roh> FinboySlick: the optics should be easy and cheap. i guess one can easily modify the party and show gear from china
[17:20:38] <pcw_home> use a laser priner scanner for X and mechanical for Y
[17:20:46] <roh> dmx controlled scanners, lasers etc are dirt cheap now.
[17:21:49] <L84Supper> http://compare.ebay.com/like/321069877006?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
[17:21:49] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.googlestore.com/Office/Wireless+Mouse.axd
[17:22:02] <r00t4rd3d> that is buried and only shows up on related searches
[17:23:19] <roh> or if one only needs to scan a small area... the optics from a cash register or a barcode scanner is nice
[17:23:35] <L84Supper> http://www.nextengine.com/products ghetto commercial systems
[17:24:08] <roh> its 2d optics with a usually red laser.. one rotiating mirror and one which svivels the y axis. available for < 20E in working condition
[17:28:36] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: The Y part would be relatively slow though, no? If the point of using a laser (vs DLP) is resolution, this would cripple print speed. Or is that rendered moot by the typical epoxy curing time?
[17:29:52] <pcw_home> Its at least 1-2 KHz
[17:30:21] <FinboySlick> You mean the X scan rate?
[17:30:42] <pcw_home> Yes X
[17:31:08] <pcw_home> so Y is a couple of IPS
[17:31:50] <pcw_home> X maybe 10 KHz or so for a fast printer
[17:32:08] <FinboySlick> Hmmm...
[17:32:29] <Jymmm> Hey, how do you guys get rid of stuff? I'm just out of room, have a lot of useful stuff, but find it hard to jsut get rid of it knowing in 3months I'll need it.
[17:33:08] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: buy shipping containers and land! ;)
[17:33:54] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I wish =) Good idea on the shipping containers, I've always thought of a masive shop with rolling shelving
[17:34:51] <Jymmm> I have 1U servers sitting on the shelf, not taking up a lot of room, but just sitting there.
[17:35:45] <Jymmm> I have some 12"x4"x0.5" pine, 12" width is expensive, hard to just use up on a whim or just toss out.
[17:35:53] <Jymmm> 4ft not 4"
[17:38:57] <Jymmm> So does everyone just keep it all? Stack up to the ceiling like archivist or what?
[17:39:46] <Jymmm> I refused to put shelves on the wall in the fear that is exactly what I would do and I have 13ft ceilings =)
[17:44:38] <L84Supper> I have 25 ft ceilings and about 1 week after I throw anything out I need it :)
[17:45:12] <Jymmm> Murphy is a dead man when I catch him!
[17:46:02] <L84Supper> my rule now is 10 years and older gets tossed, unless it's memorabilia or tools
[17:47:38] <Jymmm> Well, I kept a IR kybd/mouse for 7yrs, then finally had a use for it for two years. and this was back when HTPC stuff was non existant
[17:48:18] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: photopolymer epoxies cure in ~2 sec @ 0.1mm layers with a 0.5w 405nm led or 100mw laser
[17:48:21] <Jymmm> I think about 10+ years ago I got rid of 4 pallets of computer gear
[17:49:15] <Jymmm> I'm a strong believer in RESUSE, not recycle.
[17:49:20] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: http://bucktownpolymers.com/polymer00.html hobby and low volume photopolymers
[17:52:25] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: I'm mostly just dreaming, sadly...
[17:55:05] <L84Supper> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/slamps-the-open-hardware-sla-3d-printer-for-everyone
[18:05:16] <roh> ah. more sla
[18:07:10] <roh> hmm. we got a laser cutter and multiple 3d printers.. maybe i should write that guy. we could help producting small volumes of kits for european customers for example
[18:09:19] <L84Supper> roh: he's near St. Louis
[18:09:39] <L84Supper> I didn't know he was crowd funding
[18:11:43] <roh> hm. i don't see an email address. if you know him, tell to reach out to us. i'm quite interrested (just too broke to help out with money)
[18:12:25] <L84Supper> he is featured in the first edition of reprap magazine
[18:12:45] <roh> i don't know that magazine.. url?
[18:12:53] <L84Supper> 1 sec
[18:13:58] <L84Supper> http://reprapmagazine.com/
[18:15:14] <L84Supper> I haven't been focusing on DIY 3d printers
[18:16:06] <roh> ah. thanks
[18:16:20] <roh> do you know if that printer is opensource?
[18:16:31] <L84Supper> that is his plan
[18:16:32] <roh> some components seem to be atleast
[18:16:45] <L84Supper> he's mainly a software dev
[18:16:50] <roh> nice. that helps my motivation al lot ;)
[18:17:05] <roh> we also have some people at our hackerspace working on a completely new slicer
[18:17:15] <roh> and so far it seems incredibly fast
[18:17:54] <L84Supper> I actually have a factory in China dedicated to manufacturing 3d printers..... just not DIY
[18:18:04] <roh> and since one of us is doing it for his university grades.... there is real progress *g*
[18:18:10] <L84Supper> roh: which hackerspace?
[18:18:11] <roh> L84Supper: nice.. which kind?
[18:18:17] <roh> L84Supper: raumfahrtagentur.org
[18:18:59] <roh> berlin, germany. we are mostly focussed on rapid prototyping, manufacturing etc.
[18:19:02] <L84Supper> roh: new types for manufacturing vs protos
[18:19:29] <roh> interresting. fdm? stl?
[18:19:45] <L84Supper> all the above, mostly hybrids
[18:19:54] <L84Supper> just much faster
[18:20:05] <Valen> bah stupid internets
[18:20:07] <L84Supper> most of the work is in materials
[18:20:12] <Valen> (11:03:45) Valen: so yeah, andypugh we are going to use those 750W motors
[18:20:12] <Valen> (11:03:52) Valen: moar powwwwwwer! lol
[18:20:38] <roh> we currently have 3 different fdm machines. shapercube, ultimaker, and one which has a folding Z axis which is built into a suitcase
[18:21:09] <L84Supper> roh: I have a DLP SLA in a flightcase :)
[18:21:22] <Valen> roh, we have been thinking of making a piston based filament extruder and a grinder of old parts, any thoughts?
[18:21:23] <roh> nice. self-made?
[18:21:56] <roh> Valen: piston based? so it cannot feed continously?
[18:21:57] <Valen> yeah
[18:22:04] <ReadError> ;)
[18:22:09] <ReadError> echains are almost installed
[18:22:11] <Valen> yes, I didn't want to make a new print head
[18:22:19] <Valen> just something to make filiment
[18:22:45] <roh> i see. i only know of the filabot project making machines to generate filament so far
[18:24:14] <Valen> I'm not feeling too confident about that thing tbh
[18:25:03] <roh> yeah. also i think one usually has only few amounts of recycleable materials around.
[18:25:30] <L84Supper> it depends on the print quality you want to end up with
[18:25:42] <andypugh> Valen: Which ones?
[18:25:48] <Valen> dmm-tech
[18:25:55] <Valen> speaking of I need to send them an email
[18:25:57] <L84Supper> for consistent FDM prints you want really consistent filament
[18:26:23] <Valen> L84Supper: if you mixed the old stuff well and added some virgin prils it should be ok
[18:26:27] <roh> L84Supper: true. but we've learned that its hard to have half-way reliable part precision and also no constantly clogging nozzles
[18:26:56] <andypugh> Valen: I will be interested to see how they work (I don't anticipate any problems, from the spec).
[18:27:10] <L84Supper> we extrude filament with a 2" twin screw extruder
[18:27:13] <roh> also filament is quite cheap compared to the time and thus cost of qualified personell using such machines
[18:27:23] <roh> ;)
[18:27:52] <Tom_itx> L84Supper, straight screw or tapered?
[18:27:54] <Valen> its way over powered and the motor inertia is larger than the "reflected" so it should be good i think?
[18:28:31] <L84Supper> Tom_itx: dual taper, dual zone
[18:28:47] <roh> so from my pov the price of 3d fdm is atm mostly time. not because prints take time, but because it takes time to get good parts from current slicers and machine reliability.
[18:29:33] <L84Supper> we make photopolymers for lower cost than FDM filament
[18:29:46] <L84Supper> but FDM has it's niches
[18:30:10] <L84Supper> but for simple parts DLP SLA is way faster than FDM
[18:30:58] <Valen> I'm thinking of sticking a 3d printing head onto our new mill
[18:31:04] <Valen> 1200x1200x600 build volume ;->
[18:31:29] <Valen> Any suggestions for software (the mill will be running EMC) and a print head?
[18:31:40] <roh> we switched from our inital screw extruder experiments to stepper direct or geared drives for the extruders. shapercube has a big stepper and j-nozzle and a metal gears, ultimaker laser cut wooden gears, and the small suitcase one has a small dia head from a cupcake cnc. ultimaker and the suitcase one do the most precise parts.
[18:31:53] <roh> the shapercube can do abs tho, since it has a heated bed
[18:32:53] <roh> Valen: nice idea. but build volume is enough for a few hours of continous printing with 10x10x10-20x20x20 cm volume
[18:34:06] <roh> L84Supper: you _make_ the photopolymers?
[18:34:16] <L84Supper> Valen: nobody makes a nice off the shelf industrial quality extruder head
[18:34:20] <L84Supper> roh: yes
[18:34:22] <roh> i was currently under the impression that these are difficlt to get/expensive
[18:34:36] <roh> same as the nylon powder stuff.. (>100E for 100g)
[18:35:07] <L84Supper> some are ~$30/Kg in bulk
[18:35:29] <L84Supper> lower if you buy in drum or tanker
[18:35:39] <Valen> I thought they where ~$100/kg for polymer
[18:35:39] <Valen> heh if you want a powder system using parafin wax is super easy to make (if messy)
[18:35:39] <Valen> pipe into molten wax, put shop air across the top of pipe (think carburettor) and job is done
[18:35:49] <Valen> note, big fuel/air hazard
[18:35:52] <Valen> do it inside a box
[18:36:03] <L84Supper> http://bucktownpolymers.com/polymer00.html
[18:36:17] <roh> sure. how is the longtime stability? i guess powder can be used up slower/stored for longer periods in opened up packing units?
[18:36:30] <Connor> okay, I'm looking for some sort of connector that's rated for power around 15 to 20amps, 110v DC. (NOT AC)..
[18:36:49] <L84Supper> powder + binder is also inexpensive
[18:36:49] <Valen> anderson powerpoles?
[18:36:58] <Connor> 2 contacts needed. (positive and negative)
[18:37:10] <Valen> Connor: check anderson powerpoles out
[18:37:17] <L84Supper> difficult for DIY since the inkjet head specs are kept so secret
[18:37:19] <Connor> Hopefully something pretty compact too.. not too much bigger than the CB connectors I've been using for steppers.
[18:37:20] <Valen> not 100% sure on the voltage but they will do the amps
[18:37:21] <roh> powerpoles. the only stuff which can handle such amounts of dc i know
[18:37:41] <Valen> otherwise hit up amphenol
[18:38:00] <L84Supper> FCI, AMP, Molex many more
[18:38:05] <Connor> Ugg.. those aren't bulkhead.
[18:38:09] <roh> we use speakon from neutrik on e-bikes (up to 70V dc, 20-30A)
[18:38:32] <andypugh> Connor: I like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector
[18:38:34] <roh> not intended for that, but can handle dirt quite well
[18:39:00] <andypugh> Ah, beaten to the post
[18:39:05] <roh> make sure to buy the original vendor parts. the copies usually have bad plastics and contacts and burn
[18:39:08] <jdh> I use PowerPoles for dive lights and scooters.
[18:39:20] <jdh> Probably not great for a spindle motor connection
[18:39:22] <Connor> This is for my spindle.
[18:39:31] <Connor> Using 14 gauge wire...
[18:39:36] <andypugh> I use the 4-pole speakons for 3-phase 240V. (runs both my spindles)
[18:39:49] <andypugh> Rating is 20A 250V.
[18:39:51] <Connor> motor itself has those standard spade style contacts on it.
[18:40:02] <roh> hmmm.. an o-ring end and something like 2 6-8mm screw connection? ;)
[18:40:35] <Valen> I like the screw on amphenol connectors, IP68 rated
[18:40:37] <andypugh> There are also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powercon
[18:40:39] <Valen> not even that spendy
[18:40:42] <Connor> 14Gauge wire fit in the speakon ?
[18:40:42] <roh> andypugh: ah.. well.. speakon isnt intended for such voltages. they got powercon for that
[18:40:52] <Valen> and they really do look the sexy ;->
[18:40:55] <roh> heh. laggg
[18:41:11] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1239027-post203.html
[18:42:02] <andypugh> Yeah, they take 2.5mm 4-core multi-flex (semi-armoured0
[18:42:13] <t12> hum i just obtained an old maxnc-10
[18:42:21] <andypugh> roh: Speakon is rated to 250V. (I don't know why)
[18:42:38] <Valen> skunkworks: thats pretty sexy
[18:42:55] <Valen> I bet you get eleventy billion requests for plans
[18:43:03] <roh> andypugh: well.. ok.. i wouldnt load it with 240 then either. seems too few headroom
[18:43:41] <skunkworks> Valen: not mine
[18:43:46] <andypugh> Eh? if it's rated 250V then it's good to 250V. The manufacturer already puts headroom in.
[18:44:11] <Valen> read the data sheet, see what type of rating it is
[18:44:21] <Valen> if its continuous duty then its ok
[18:44:27] <roh> true
[18:44:28] <Valen> if its a 5 minute max rating then its not
[18:44:31] <L84Supper> measure the leakage, the voltage rating is also based on temp rise of the contacts and insulator/shell
[18:45:13] <roh> i'll do when used in dry indoors
[18:45:13] <andypugh> The contacts are huge in Speakons. A big bar and a multi-finger wiper.
[18:45:17] <Connor> What I freaking hate is everything is rated for AC when your talking that sort of amperage and voltage..
[18:45:38] <Valen> for a connector specifically I wouldn't worry about it *too* much
[18:45:43] <roh> our ebikes get used even when in rain or winter, and then even 48V dc are a real evil.. creeps over multiple mm
[18:45:45] <Valen> if its water proof
[18:46:13] <andypugh> Connor: Why would a connector care about AC or DC? (assuming you don't intend to break the contact live)
[18:46:26] <Connor> So, SpeakOn or PowerCon for my use.. Hooping to have smaller size that I can use a existing bunch out on my panel..
[18:47:23] <andypugh> I asked Neutrik about my intended use (rectified 240V) and the answer was:
[18:47:24] <Valen> andypugh: you do sometimes have to be concerned, things can plate onto things, or other weirdness
[18:47:24] <Connor> andypugh: Does DC @ higher amperage not require larger or more robust contacts than AC ?
[18:47:26] <andypugh> Morning Andy
[18:47:27] <andypugh> Thanks for your email
[18:47:28] <andypugh> The powerCON connector is an AC connector and all its approvals are related to this.
[18:47:30] <andypugh> The thing is with connectors they are used in many different applications for which they were never dreamt of being used, I know speakON connectors being used in diesel engine management design!
[18:47:31] <andypugh> If a connector is part of a system and it passes safety tests then the system becomes approved not the connector!
[18:47:31] <andypugh> All the best and thanks for using our connectors
[18:47:55] <andypugh> <end quote>
[18:48:51] <andypugh> Rather interestingly, I have a box with a bunch of speakons in it that I pulled out of the skip at work. Possibly the very same bit of equipment he was talking about :-)
[18:49:05] <Valen> I have heard stories of opto isolators rated to 600VAC of isolation being used in military hardware
[18:49:23] <Valen> all of a sudden about a month into service (with production in full swing) they start failing
[18:49:58] <Valen> turns out the AC rating was really AC, they couldn't handle a ~90Vdc offset and died after a month of on time
[18:53:16] <Connor> What I do know is.. My spindle will never hit the 15 or 16 amps for a long time.. it's mostly @ startup.. normally would be around 8-10 amps.
[18:53:17] <L84Supper> AC doesn't have the issues with arcing
[18:53:41] <L84Supper> thats why DC contacts will end up being much larger
[18:54:05] <andypugh> Arcing makes a huge difference to relays. But you probably won't be unplugging the power connector with the spindle running.
[18:54:19] <Connor> Nope. Won't be. :)
[18:54:57] <andypugh> SpeakON / PowerCON are fairly inexpensive, but actually really nice, solid connectors.
[18:54:57] <Connor> I though about just using a odd AC style inline power connector and letting it dangle out of the enclosure.. but would rather have a bulkhead connector.
[18:55:36] <andypugh> Nice thing about PowerCON is that there are both power inlet and power outlet bulkhead versions.
[18:55:38] <Connor> looking at the SpeakON on Ebay now.. I need to know the size of the bulkhead jack..
[18:56:29] <L84Supper> http://portal.fciconnect.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/fci?cmd=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true&productID=100800684HEL100LF&_bcs_=-1%08%23%23%08%23%23%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatLanding%08%23%23%08true%08%070%08602382%2F603300%2F610411*%08Pwr+TwinBlade+Series%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingl
[18:56:29] <L84Supper> eLevelCategory%26catKey%3D610411%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603300%2F610411%2F610412**%08Pwr+TwinBlade+Cable+Assemblies%08http%3A%2F%2Fportal.fciconnect.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Ffci%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D610412%08%23%23%08false 100A max. per Twin Powered Contact
[18:56:33] <L84Supper> sorry
[18:57:17] <Connor> looks like 23.6mm sized hole.. ?
[18:57:33] <roh> Connor: http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/speakon/speakon-chassis-connectors/nl4mp
[18:57:33] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/bmvlqby
[18:57:42] <roh> there is cad data there to download
[18:59:14] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/d8jzsqb PwrBlade® : 2P STB Right Angle Header
[19:00:29] <Connor> that's the 4pole.. looking to use the 2pole.. size should be the same though right ?
[19:06:58] <andypugh> Yes, that's what the datasheet I have says.
[19:07:33] <andypugh> I just found that they do an 8-pole speakon. Worth remembering.
[19:08:48] <L84Supper> neutrik, high quality but you also pay for it
[19:10:01] <andypugh> £2.50 for a bulkhead socket seems relatively cheap to me.
[19:10:18] <andypugh> (compared to, say, a Lemo connector)
[19:11:15] <Connor> Looking on ebay.. getting lots of Knock offs.. :(
[19:12:28] <andypugh> Why eBay? http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Neutrik/NL4MP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlX3nhDDO4ADUfAUIJI3vk7QYQfCH1vNo=
[19:13:23] <Connor> okay, so SpeakON or PowerCON for DC use ? :)
[19:14:58] <andypugh> They are both the same design (differently keyed) and same rating (30A 250V AC). But PowerCON looks like the more logical choice.
[19:16:06] <L84Supper> for your machine it won't matter, but in the stage and lighting industry they stick to the standards so you don't plug power into sound
[19:16:37] <Connor> PowerCON looks like it has 3 conductors..
[19:17:02] <andypugh> roh: Have you seen http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/speakon/stx-series/ ? IP54 40A version.
[19:17:13] <andypugh> Connor: How many do you need?
[19:17:22] <Connor> I just need 1 for my spindle.
[19:17:32] <Connor> oh. conductors. 2
[19:17:35] <andypugh> I mean, how many terminals?
[19:17:50] <Connor> Positive and Negative.
[19:17:52] <andypugh> So, use PowerCON. (it has an early-contact earth)
[19:18:01] <roh> andypugh: yep, but they are expensive and quite bulky
[19:19:09] <andypugh> For 240V and 7A you can use D-Sub, but nobody ever would :-)
[19:19:25] <pcw_home> not to bulky for 4 pole 30A
[19:20:31] <Connor> Whats TRUE 1 vs 20 A ?
[19:21:20] <pcw_home> True is live coneect/disconnectable
[19:21:34] <Connor> okay, So I don't need that.
[19:22:13] <andypugh> Connor: TRUE1 is a variant for live breaking (Probably still only AC)
[19:23:10] <Connor> I want the grey PowerCON.. as that's Power OUT.
[19:25:28] <andypugh> I can't find anything that suggest derating connectors for DC use, and Hirose quote 250V AC/DC for the one I just looked at.
[19:27:28] <Connor> Hmm.. Mouser has 2 part numbers.. one with -POS on the end .. and one without..
[19:27:32] <pcw_home> Should make no difference at all RMS AC VS DC current ratings
[19:27:33] <Connor> can't find the difference.
[19:27:43] <andypugh> probably best to look a the neutrik web pages to be sure which is which
[19:28:12] <Connor> Nothing on the site..
[19:28:20] <pcw_home> probably a 250VAC connector coul be used for ~350VDC
[19:28:47] <andypugh> blue is power in, grey is power out: http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-20-a/
[19:28:56] <Connor> got that part..
[19:29:02] <Connor> http://dilp.netcomponents.com/cgi-bin/neutrik.asp?partnumber1=NAC3FCB
[19:29:11] <Connor> looks like they may have a new part number ?
[19:30:55] <jdh> I have a 15% off newark code if you order from them.
[19:32:08] <abetusk> is an effective way of avoiding backlash issues to always disengage from the work and then circle around so that you've 'pre-stressed' in the direction you're cutting?
[19:32:21] <abetusk> as in, whenever you change direction in the x or y axis, you circle around to pre-stress?
[19:32:24] <Connor> More expensive that mouser.. probably even with the 15 %
[19:32:34] <andypugh> Plugs that end in A mate with sockets that end with A, and B wirh B. So NAC3CFCB plugs in to NAC3MPB (according to the data sheets)
[19:32:46] <Connor> 8.66 vs 5.90 for the connector
[19:33:18] <andypugh> abetusk: That sort of thing is fairly normal when using manual machines.
[19:33:42] <abetusk> andypugh, I'm considering writing a g-code preprocessing script that does that....this is an effective way to mitigate backlash?
[19:34:21] <andypugh> It addresses _one_ of the problems of backlash.
[19:34:52] <abetusk> a major one?
[19:34:56] <andypugh> But I don't think a script can know what direction the cutting forces will be in, so I think you would have to do it by hand?
[19:36:04] <andypugh> You know that there is a way to put in backlash compensation (which can be mapped to the screw, and bidirectional?)
[19:36:20] <pcw_home> Hmm the switchcraft clones are rated 1500V!
[19:36:24] <abetusk> My thought was that whenever you switch direction, either going from +x to -x or from +y to a -y direction, you do this pre-stressing operation
[19:36:37] <andypugh> Backlash compensation is another partial solution.
[19:36:44] <abetusk> can you describe what backlash compesation is doing and how effective it is?
[19:37:18] <pcw_home> well maybe hipot rather than working rating...
[19:41:13] <andypugh> abetusk: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html#_axis_lt_num_gt_section_a_id_sub_axis_section_a (COMP_FILE)
[19:42:29] <abetusk> Thank you, but I'm more interested in the underlying algorithm
[19:42:55] <abetusk> I just don't understand how you can do any type of meaningful compensation while the bit is engaged with the work...
[19:43:08] <andypugh> No, I am not sure that you can.
[19:43:23] <andypugh> It's a partial solution at best.
[19:43:31] <abetusk> I think the only effective way is to remove the bit from the work, cycle around until you've engaged the other direction
[19:44:04] <abetusk> I would worry about 'walking' when traveling perpendicular to a particular axis, but maybe static friction will save you?
[19:44:25] <andypugh> (though the comp file along with an hour with optical measurement kit can give significant gains in accuracy)
[19:44:55] <abetusk> but what is it doing in the end? How is it compensating?
[19:45:38] <andypugh> It modifies the commanded position.
[19:45:54] <andypugh> (depending on direction of movement)
[19:47:37] <andypugh> So, if you had 1mm backlash, moving left-right to 100mm might go to 100mm, whereas right to left movement might go to 99mm (on the shaft encoder or stepper position)
[19:48:41] <andypugh> It's not a panancea, as you have spotted, as it sort-of assumes that table friction is > cutting forces.
[19:49:28] <andypugh> Time for me to log off and sleep. Night all
[19:49:35] <Valen> nighty night andypugh
[19:49:38] <toastyde1th> the screw jumps by the distance
[19:49:43] <Valen> I'll let you know when I hear back from dmm
[19:49:45] <Valen> or not
[19:49:45] <Valen> ;-P
[19:50:29] <toastyde1th> inside the nut driving the table, you have a physical distance to move before the nut makes contact with the screw again
[19:50:49] <toastyde1th> so if you want to change directions, you have to get the screw to move that distance before the table can start moving in that direction
[19:52:15] <toastyde1th> it's a tenuous solution at best, because there is loss of accuracy and the potential to break tools and cause a machine crash if the change is undertaken under heavy load
[19:54:01] <abetusk> toastyde1th, that's what I fear, not so much crashes, but loss of accuracy
[19:54:30] <toastyde1th> whether you're using ballscrews or leadscrews, the process for maximal accuracy is the same - you always approach the position from the same direction
[19:54:36] <abetusk> my feeling is a better, albeit potentially slower, operation is to disengage from the work, cycle around until you're sure you've made contact with the other side of the leadscrew, then continue
[19:54:56] <toastyde1th> you generally don't cut in both directions if you're going for accuracy.
[19:55:07] <abetusk> but there are some shapes that are impossible to cut like that
[19:55:15] <toastyde1th> you'll make the cut in the direction the machine likes best (which has to be experimentally determined) and then make all the cuts that direction.
[19:55:29] <toastyde1th> sure, but you have to live with the error at that point.
[19:56:18] <abetusk> hmm, but it's the same idea of always cutting in the same direction, just applied to lines/curves in the other direction
[19:56:34] <abetusk> alright, maybe I should just try it to see instead of hypothesizing about it
[19:56:45] <toastyde1th> any time you change direction, one of the axes has to change direction.
[19:57:08] <toastyde1th> and so you introduce a hysteresis error into the operation, as well as changing the direction of cutting load
[19:57:59] <Valen> no software can compensate for backlash
[19:58:03] <Valen> do it in hardware
[19:58:16] <Valen> more nuts, belvile washers and the like
[19:58:29] <abetusk> Valen, I would like to, but there's only so far you can get. And if I can make up a mil or two in software, I'm going to pursue that option in addition to others
[19:58:36] <toastyde1th> there's only a small number of machines that can compensate backlash without error and they're a small number of machines indeed
[19:59:06] <toastyde1th> also, for the majority of things, you don't realllllllly care about that level of accuracy.
[19:59:12] <abetusk> toastyde1th, if you look at a standard hysteresis curve, it's just two different paths at getting to the same endpoint. All I'm proposing is to follow one path to get to the same endpoint
[19:59:20] <abetusk> for the things I'm doing, I care
[19:59:29] <abetusk> and it's not really a mil, probably more like 1-5...
[19:59:30] <abetusk> but still
[19:59:39] <Valen> I would submit that getting the accuracy you want in hardware and then not bothering with software is better
[20:00:05] <abetusk> Valen, again, I'm for that, but the cost shoots way up. If I can do it in software, I don't see why I shouldn't also pursue that avenue
[20:00:09] <toastyde1th> abetusk, the problem is that no matter how hard you try, the position of that return path is different for each condition
[20:00:29] <Valen> why would the cost shoot up? its 1 more nut and a spring?
[20:00:33] <toastyde1th> you should pursue correcting in software, but just realize you have to deal with variance that will never go away and will have to be tuned
[20:00:33] <abetusk> toastyde1th, but that's repeat accuracy of the machine...
[20:00:42] <toastyde1th> per cut
[20:01:58] <abetusk> Valen, I've got the anti-backlash nuts tightened pretty heavily. I fear that tightening them more or introducing something like shims will make it bind
[20:02:08] <abetusk> I don't have an easy way to introduce more nuts or anti-backlash nuts
[20:02:13] <Valen> which part of a spring did you not hear?
[20:02:46] <Valen> our mill with chinese screws and nuts we have less than .001mm backlash, we use glass scales for feedback so any backlash totally kills it
[20:03:08] <Valen> if they are acme screws most anti-backlash nuts do nothing other than make the screw harder to turn
[20:03:55] <Valen> the ones with the nut half cut do nothing much
[20:04:01] <abetusk> It's a 7x7 zen toolworks. I don't believe the leadscrews are acme, but you maybe can see for yourself: http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=78
[20:04:03] <Valen> if the nut is in 2 pieces those are ok
[20:04:14] <abetusk> yeah, it's a 2 piece anti-backlash nut
[20:04:31] <abetusk> http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=77
[20:04:31] <toastyde1th> anti-backlash nuts were developed for climb milling on big as hell horizontal mills
[20:04:40] <Valen> looks like acme to me
[20:04:41] <toastyde1th> not for actually removing backlash on cnc mills
[20:05:18] <Valen> that should work, its a spring loaded nut
[20:05:22] <toastyde1th> (the split nut type, not the spring loaded)
[20:05:30] <Valen> it'll just add buttloads of friction being acme
[20:05:55] <abetusk> I'm willing to do most anything and if I'm forced to get a better axis, better machine or do some other hackery, then I'll do it
[20:06:07] <toastyde1th> ballscrews will make your problem largely go away.
[20:06:10] <abetusk> but I wanted to at least talk about a software option
[20:06:20] <Valen> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_50jdGF9As_0/TOlZTrr_IJI/AAAAAAAAAAg/GhR4RfaxndE/s1600/Ball_Screws.jpg is what you want
[20:06:28] <abetusk> yes, they're expensive though. And I'm not sure they can be installed on the machine easily
[20:06:28] <toastyde1th> and will actually behave in contour milling
[20:06:31] <Valen> heres how to do it
[20:06:45] <Valen> make parts and its either a problem or its not
[20:06:59] <Valen> most of the time retrofitting ballscrews isn't too bad
[20:07:18] <Valen> and check this guy out for prices http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/linearmotionbearings2008/m.html
[20:07:42] <Valen> note the "antibacklash" they have still have some backlash to them .01mm or so i believe is common
[20:07:56] <Valen> but its a really simple way of getting it lol
[20:08:30] <toastyde1th> the combination of glass scales instead of rotary encoders + ballscrews is going to get you measurement and control accuracy beyond what the physical bearings of the machine can provide
[20:08:43] <abetusk> ok, well, let me explore this option. If I have to I'll go ballscrew
[20:08:55] <abetusk> ah right, what are glass scales?
[20:09:07] <Valen> total overkill
[20:09:11] <Valen> don't bother lol
[20:09:21] <Valen> <- experience
[20:09:22] <toastyde1th> they're linear encoders - it's a long strip that reads out changes in position
[20:09:39] <toastyde1th> they bolt to the table directly, so you're measuring what you actually care about.
[20:09:51] <Valen> you must have the rotary encoders on your motors too, just glass scales by them selves give you a crappy feedback
[20:10:06] <Valen> also they are expensive
[20:10:24] <abetusk> are they called glass scales because they have a 'scaley' surface to them and are made of glass?
[20:10:58] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_encoder
[20:11:22] <abetusk> and speaking of encoders, has anyone experimented with ghetto encoders of the form of putting strips of printed paper on the sides of machines and a detector to read position?
[20:11:25] <toastyde1th> it's a piece of glass with marks etched in it
[20:12:54] <toastyde1th> and it's read a bit like an optical mouse reads a table
[20:13:02] <toastyde1th> except simpler, because the marks are periodic
[20:13:18] <Jymmm> optical mouse uses a camera
[20:13:34] <toastyde1th> yeah, so that was a bad analogy
[20:13:37] <Jymmm> =)
[20:13:47] <Jymmm> it's all good in da hood
[20:13:56] <Valen> either way its a few hundred $ for half a meter of the stuff
[20:14:15] <Jymmm> problem with glass scales is speed
[20:14:29] <Valen> haven't seen that as an issue Jymmm
[20:14:31] <Jymmm> driving miss faisy
[20:14:34] <Valen> using mesa hardware
[20:14:52] <Valen> I would try and get differential encoders next time though
[20:33:01] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/LbnVzIv.jpg
[20:33:46] <Valen> lol
[20:34:12] <pcw_home> Some linear scale use a camera
[20:34:33] <pcw_home> so not so far off analogy wise
[20:34:45] <jdh> we are upgrading a system at work, ditching the encoders and using laser sensors
[20:35:15] <Valen> jdh: orly?
[20:35:39] <jdh> Valen: it's a pallet delivery system
[20:36:09] <Valen> I take it you are talking CnC part carrying pallets not wooden things and forklifts?
[20:36:15] <jdh> right
[20:36:19] <jdh> well, no
[20:36:48] <jdh> not wooden things. It would pickup/store/deliver whatver you have. In our case, they are uranium pellets
[20:37:36] <Valen> of course they are lol
[20:40:23] <r00t4rd3d> i been looking for a source of uranium
[20:41:05] <jdh> you can contact our commercial dept.
[20:41:35] <Valen> I have often wanted to get some depleted uranium for use in my combat robot
[20:41:37] <r00t4rd3d> you guys stock yellow cake?
[20:41:42] <pcw_home> I once bought some U02 for glaze (had to sign a AEC doco)
[20:41:48] <Valen> purely so I can say its got uranium in it
[20:43:01] <pcw_home> Orange Fiestaware FTW
[20:43:57] <jdh> try unitednuclear
[20:44:40] <R2E4> check north Korea. you could probably get some Uranium cheap from them.
[20:44:53] <Valen> I have a friend who does aircraft maintenance and 747's use DU for counterweights i believe (also some cesnas?) so I was going to hit him up there
[20:49:52] <AR_> do you think this is enough passes?
[20:49:53] <AR_> http://i.imgur.com/HfLpdLJ.jpg
[20:50:19] <jdh> DIY lower?
[20:50:32] <AR_> if i ever get around to it
[20:50:38] <r00t4rd3d> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=Telecommande.Hugh_Potter.CNCPRO
[20:50:50] <r00t4rd3d> i want that for linuxcnc
[20:51:06] <Valen> VNC?
[20:51:14] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: VNC on phone
[20:51:23] <Valen> right price ;->
[20:52:39] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[20:53:36] <r00t4rd3d> cradek said he was going to code us a app
[20:54:01] <Jymmm> You WISH cradek said he was going to code us a app
[20:54:07] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[20:54:16] <r00t4rd3d> he loves android and its powers
[20:55:36] <r00t4rd3d> a pretty web interface is all I am begging for
[20:55:46] <Jymmm> oh fuck no
[20:56:14] <r00t4rd3d> would be the easiest
[20:56:31] <Jymmm> keystick is the easiest
[20:57:08] <Valen> webUI wouldn't actually be that hard
[20:57:25] <Valen> but i'm not making it ;-P
[21:02:13] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rockhopper_Web_Server
[21:05:03] <tjb1> ios > android
[21:08:43] <tjb1> I thought for sure that would get a comment out of r00t4rd3d
[21:29:25] <ReadError> tjb1
[21:29:30] <tjb1> ReadError:
[21:29:33] <ReadError> got my router goin :)
[21:29:35] <ReadError> but liek
[21:29:53] <ReadError> why the hell do they call the axis with 2 motors the x
[21:29:58] <ReadError> it should be y ?
[21:30:13] <tjb1> Tis X for me
[21:30:17] <tjb1> I always call the long axis X
[21:30:21] <ReadError> why
[21:30:34] <ReadError> if i stand at the front
[21:30:37] <ReadError> its teh x
[21:30:38] <toastyde1th> it's just convention
[21:30:47] <jdh> because he's your mother and he says so
[21:31:20] <tjb1> Because all machines I have every used, X is the longest axis
[21:31:52] <ReadError> what if they are equal?
[21:32:32] <tjb1> Sucks to be you?
[21:32:40] <R2E4> X is usually across gantry. The gantry is usually teh shortest.
[21:33:11] <R2E4> Thats in the router machines I have built and sorked on.
[21:33:19] <R2E4> worked on.
[21:38:47] <toastyde1th> even that still depends
[21:39:13] <toastyde1th> big mills almost always have the longest axis called out as x
[21:39:41] <toastyde1th> if you walk up to a 20 foot by 10 foot Mazak, the 20 foot axis will be x
[21:40:07] <toastyde1th> that convention comes from how old manual machines of that size were thought of and laid out
[21:40:30] <toastyde1th> but routers and the woodworking industry don't have that kind of institutional assumption build into how they do things
[21:40:36] <toastyde1th> *built
[21:41:20] <R2E4> Why would it matter anyway? Just you need to know if you have to work on it.
[21:41:55] <toastyde1th> the question was "why is it this way on this machine"
[21:41:59] <toastyde1th> not "does it matter"
[21:43:20] <jdh> X == left/right to me. Anything else would require thought
[21:44:00] <toastyde1th> then most large mills will require thought
[21:44:00] <R2E4> In/OUT allways - Y to me....
[21:44:07] <toastyde1th> set your own mill up however you want
[21:44:50] <toastyde1th> professional machinists don't like it when things change, and so manufacturers set things up how it's always been done because anything else hurts sales
[21:44:57] <jdh> g10 l2 r90
[21:46:05] <R2E4> So which way is the norm? left/right = X ?
[21:46:39] <toastyde1th> it has nothing to do with left right up down
[21:46:47] <toastyde1th> because big machines often are laid on their side
[21:47:13] <R2E4> that would F%^&k me up.....
[21:47:48] <tjb1> Then stand at the other side
[21:47:51] <toastyde1th> the longest axis perpindicular to the spindle is called x, the second perpindicular axis is called y
[21:48:02] <toastyde1th> and the one moving in line with the spindle is z
[21:48:08] <toastyde1th> (which is how you get Z and X on lathes)
[21:49:32] <toastyde1th> that is how almost every large MILLING machine is set up; entry level routers are often made my mom and pop type places and don't have the same conventions
[21:49:35] <tjb1> Anyone know where misumi ships from?
[21:50:14] <toastyde1th> the long/short convention helps when you're dealing with a horizontal milling machine or something similar, because it preserves the direction
[21:57:45] <jdh> I'll have to check out the Haas at a vendor site tomorrow. It has the long axis front/back
[22:21:20] <skunkworks> R2E4: all run with mesa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[22:26:45] <R2E4> That Kearney and Trecker is running mesa?
[22:29:17] <skunkworks> R2E4: yes
[22:30:27] <skunkworks> R2E4: there are other videos in that channel
[22:32:08] <R2E4> yeah, I checking
[22:34:37] <R2E4> Is it closed loop back to the 5i20 in the pci slot? able to do error correction?
[22:35:55] <skunkworks> yes
[22:36:46] <skunkworks> (the only way to go...) :)
[22:37:34] <R2E4> Say the amps in my R2E4 Boss 9 Bridgeport are good. What would the cost approx be for the 5i20?? and daughterboard?
[22:38:18] <R2E4> Also if I need to purchase new servo amps........Which ones are suggested to be used with mesa?
[22:38:20] <skunkworks> I would probaby get a 5i25 + the servo daughter board
[22:38:28] <skunkworks> cheaper - around 230ish iirc
[22:39:06] <R2E4> I have 2000.00 for the upgrade so I don't want to skimp if I don't have to.
[22:39:18] <R2E4> so 230 is very doable....:-)
[22:39:32] <skunkworks> that would not be skimping - and is expandable
[22:40:04] <Jymmm> chrome plated bling baby!
[22:40:53] <R2E4> jeez. I think that maxnc is not going to stop everytime...
[22:41:45] <skunkworks> R2E4: most any servo amp will work (that takes +/-10v command)
[22:42:14] <R2E4> thats cool..... 200-300 a pop?
[22:42:20] <skunkworks> I ebay
[22:42:32] <skunkworks> Not bought any new
[22:42:47] <skunkworks> the amps in the k&t are 40A peak
[22:42:48] <R2E4> AH....
[22:42:58] <R2E4> Which machines are yours in those videos?
[22:43:26] <skunkworks> The k&T - what others are there?
[22:43:58] <R2E4> I'm at #52......
[22:44:06] <R2E4> haha
[22:44:54] <R2E4> ah, I was talking about the other videos in the YT channel.
[22:45:15] <Jymmm> It's ONE big ass machine
[22:45:27] <R2E4> yeah, Thats bad ass.
[22:45:30] <skunkworks> oh - that is the linuxcnc development machine the devels have used at the fest in galesberg
[22:45:45] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Got Panduit?
[22:45:49] <Jymmm> ;)
[22:46:35] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I'm moving up now... have 6ft of 12"x 6" aluminum cable raceway
[22:46:44] <Jymmm> =)
[22:46:45] <skunkworks> heh
[22:47:01] <R2E4> JESUS!!!! I was actually contemplating on spending over 5,000.00 plus tax juat for one board.
[22:47:56] <skunkworks> heh
[22:48:14] <skunkworks> Plus when you are done - you know the machine in and out. Easy to fix
[22:49:56] <skunkworks> I needed a lot of i/o
[22:50:30] <skunkworks> with the 2 5i20 boards - that gave me 96 i/o and I used them all iirc
[22:50:54] <R2E4> on the K and T?
[22:51:00] <skunkworks> yes -
[22:51:16] <skunkworks> plus 10 analog axis with what I had purchased
[22:51:18] <R2E4> an input and oputput for each tool?
[22:51:47] <skunkworks> No - 15 just for the tool barcode reader
[22:51:59] <skunkworks> lots of hydraulic solinoids
[22:52:19] <skunkworks> and sensors
[22:53:09] <skunkworks> lots of random pictures here
[22:53:11] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/
[22:53:17] <R2E4> How many slots for tools are there?
[22:53:23] <skunkworks> 60
[22:55:12] <R2E4> how long did it take to upgrade that monstor?
[22:55:50] <skunkworks> oh - it took a couple of years - it was a weekend project
[23:29:38] <Jymmm> could of had it done in a month if you had some panduit!
[23:34:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/02/21/coolship-is-a-89-rockchip-rk3066-android-keyboard-desktop-computer/
[23:41:13] <Jymmm> Things like that have been around before.
[23:41:49] <Jymmm> The i7 in a C64 is sorta kinda cool, but not really
[23:51:01] <Gene34> c64 rocked