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[01:49:58] <Jymmm> archivist: IT'S ALIVE!!! IT'S ALIVE!!!
[01:50:31] <archivist> mine is dead
[01:50:39] <Jymmm> Say what?!
[01:50:45] <tjb1> Fix your vehicle.
[01:50:56] <archivist> failed MOT yesterday, brake pipe
[01:51:13] <Jymmm> tjb1: yep, and I didn't have to drop the tank
[01:51:44] <Jymmm> archivist: phuk me, that just sucks. you are the second person in 20m who said their car fubared.
[01:52:01] <Jymmm> Is Jan fucked up car month???
[01:52:08] <tjb1> Do tell Jymmm
[01:53:37] <tjb1> My moms car must think it is January all the time then
[02:02:49] <r00t4rd3d> scan it
[02:07:45] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:09:25] <Vq> Good morning
[02:09:59] <Vq> Jymmm: My SAAB is running just fine.
[02:12:38] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:19:14] <Valen> i was just out in the rain helping diagnose a neighbours BMW as fucked
[02:19:34] <Valen> archivist: cant fix the pipe?
[02:19:43] <r00t4rd3d> i can fix the pipe
[02:34:54] <archivist> Valen, just needs replacement as it is rusty
[02:36:45] <Jymmm> Nuttin a lil paint and bondo can't fix =)
[02:44:25] <Jymmm> I wonder if a porcelain exhaust pipe would last forever?
[02:47:09] <Valen> too brittle
[02:47:13] <Valen> thermal cycling would kill
[02:47:14] <Valen> it
[02:47:23] <Valen> hit up mr-titanium and make one out of that
[02:47:26] <Valen> sorry
[02:47:28] <Valen> titanium joe
[02:47:51] <Jymmm> anythign else?
[02:47:57] <mrsun> hmm a friend got this old milling machine, it has a Bt or something taper in it with a collet chuck, but the collets are a bit strange ... its not ER type but almost looks like ER type but has a rounded ridge insted of the sharp ome on the ER ... anyone got an idea? :)
[02:47:59] <Valen> stainless is common
[02:49:09] <Jymmm> would it last 100 years?
[02:49:29] <Valen> would need carefull design but probably
[02:49:39] <Jymmm> careful design for???
[02:49:43] <Valen> Ti for the headers, stainless for the cat back
[02:49:55] <Valen> things like crevice corrision radiuses at temperatures
[02:50:19] <Jymmm> hmm
[02:50:33] <Jymmm> ti for catalytetic converter?
[02:50:55] <Valen> i believe thay are platinum coated stainless presently
[02:51:18] <Valen> they need to run around 700C to work i think
[02:52:20] <Jymmm> But is a cat REALLY necessary? (forget legal)
[02:52:46] <Valen> no
[02:52:55] <Valen> its there for environmental reasons
[02:53:09] <Valen> if you killed 6 out of the 7 billion people on the planet you wouldn't need it
[02:54:13] <Jymmm> No, I mean is it THAT beneficial eihter performance or environmental wise
[02:54:30] <Valen> does rather good things environmentally
[02:54:48] <Jymmm> any negatives other than cost?
[02:54:51] <Valen> nitrous oxide, unburnt fuel, some particulates all get burnt off
[02:55:03] <Valen> if its suitably sized then no not really
[02:55:20] <Valen> somewhat more back pressure but that can actually be desirable
[02:55:34] <Jymmm> sure, but a glass pack cna do that.
[02:55:51] <Valen> glass pack?
[02:55:59] <Jymmm> muffler
[02:56:07] <Valen> different jobs and no
[02:56:43] <Valen> nitrous oxides need to hit 700C or so in order to decompose and engines produce some largeish amounts of them
[02:57:03] <Valen> its those emisions that cause acid rain
[02:57:04] <Jymmm> NOS ?
[02:57:26] <Valen> there are multiple oxides of nitrogen but that is one of the main ones
[02:57:59] <Valen> oh also converting carbon monoxide to CO2
[02:58:04] <Valen> CO isn't nice
[02:58:24] <Jymmm> Well, I'll ignore the exhaust for a moment.
[02:58:33] <Jymmm> But
[02:58:45] <Valen> theres no reason you couldn't make a catpack to last 100 years
[02:58:48] <Valen> just add more pr
[02:58:51] <Valen> pt
[02:59:33] <Jymmm> When I change my in-tenk fuel pump, I noticed that the filler hose and couple of evap hoses REALLY need to be replaced as they are starting to deteriorate a bit
[02:59:43] <Jymmm> *in-tank
[02:59:58] <Jymmm> So, wth do we still use RUBBER hoses?!
[03:00:22] <archivist> flexible
[03:00:35] <Jymmm> silicone?
[03:00:56] <Jymmm> or the orang stuff that I can't rememebr the name of
[03:01:29] <Jymmm> archivist: Heh, it's not as felixible is they once were =)
[03:02:11] <Jymmm> Ok, basically what I was thinking is a 100 Year Car reasonable?
[03:02:53] <archivist> plenty of over 100 year old traction engines around
[03:03:01] <Jymmm> err.... 100 Year PRODUCTION car.
[03:03:30] <Jymmm> Not just the engine, the WHOLE car.... tires, body, interior, etc
[03:04:16] <archivist> traction engine is a complete vehicle
[03:04:34] <Jymmm> ?
[03:04:38] <archivist> they were produced in some qty
[03:05:42] <Jymmm> steam
[03:06:19] <archivist> there are cars from the period still around
[03:08:01] <archivist> is this old enough
http://www.archivist.info/cars/1901_Decauville.JPG
[03:08:04] <Jymmm> whats that really cheap car they sell in india? Somethig like $1500 USD BRAND NEW
[03:09:31] <Jymmm> $2500
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2008/01/indias_new_car.html
[03:12:40] <Jymmm> 624 cc, 2 cylinder, MPFI
[03:13:35] <Jymmm> LOL, a 4door smart car
[03:13:46] <Jymmm> http://www.tatanano.com/view_360.htm
[03:14:51] <Jymmm> the interior betweent he seats reminds me of a vw bug
[03:14:59] <Jymmm> just missing the heater levers
[03:21:54] <Jymmm> LOL, the base model does NOT have a heater =)
[03:24:20] <Valen> The big thing for a 100 year car isn't to make one that will not need maintenence for 100 years
[03:24:26] <Valen> its to make one that can be maintained
[03:24:34] <Valen> and upgraded
[03:24:36] <Valen> and modified
[03:24:55] <Valen> tubular stainless chassis
[03:25:03] <Valen> lightweight skin
[03:25:08] <Jymmm> Yeah, but it can't be $1100 to replace a fucking fuel pump either.
[03:25:24] <Valen> plenty of room for access to bits and pieces
[03:25:36] <Jymmm> engine should be able to be replaced in 30m
[03:25:41] <Valen> big thing is to try to remove rubber components
[03:25:45] <Jymmm> maybe an hour
[03:26:03] <Valen> replacing an engine is a big job, its ok if it takes a day
[03:26:12] <Jymmm> No,
[03:26:20] <Valen> its only something that would need to be done once every 10 years at most
[03:26:21] <Jymmm> shouldn;t NEED to be
[03:27:31] <Jymmm> Nah, engine should n't have to be replaced, that's what they do now with japanese cars. the engine is required by law to be changed.
[03:28:10] <Valen> engines are full of moving sliding parts
[03:28:15] <Valen> at some point it will wear out
[03:28:25] <Jymmm> then they import the engines to the US and sell them here
[03:28:40] <Valen> archivist's steam engines are rather lower power lower efficiency designs with larger tollerences
[03:29:17] <Jymmm> theystil work though, can't disregarde that
[03:30:01] <Valen> 200kg producing 4 horse power
[03:30:05] <Jymmm> water + corn == 140 proof moonshine
[03:30:08] <Valen> not going to be a speedy car
[03:31:05] <Jymmm> that would be a cool thing... just fill up woth corn and water and let it produce it's own fuel
[03:31:25] <Valen> now you have a 4 horse power dump truck sized car
[03:31:29] <Jymmm> if not corn, rice, or soy, or whatever
[03:33:42] <Valen> but yes, I also think at least a 50 year design life would be good
[03:33:53] <Valen> rather than the 7 or so they have now
[03:34:02] <Jymmm> Nah, 100yr.
[03:34:17] <Valen> in 100 years they will probably be replaced by hover cars or something
[03:34:23] <Valen> and thats only a design life
[03:34:36] <Valen> if you look after a car getting 20 years out of it isn't hard
[03:34:37] <Jymmm> Shit.... they pwomised us hovercrafts by 2000
[03:34:47] <Valen> so getting 100 years wouldn't be unreasonable
[03:34:52] <Jymmm> fuck design, that's the problem
[03:35:09] <Valen> design is far more important in something like that
[03:35:29] <Valen> its the difference between being able to get a spanner in there and having to cut a hole in the firewall to put the socket in
[03:35:30] <Jymmm> But not ONE person who does that now, can be part of this.
[03:35:53] <Valen> they could be, just have to tell them to optimise for lifetime rather than for cost
[03:35:53] <Jymmm> Not trying to introduce things like that.
[03:36:16] <Valen> I often think about designing my huge spinning space habitat
[03:36:29] <Valen> think 5 miles long and 1 mile in diamiter
[03:36:32] <Jymmm> Maybe, but old habbits are hard to break.
[03:36:55] <Valen> i think its components should last for 1000 years or so without maintenence
[03:37:55] <Jymmm> look at pelllet stoves, lots of energy in them. I'm sure something like that could be done with corn, rice, etc.
[03:38:07] <Valen> its all done with fermentation
[03:38:12] <Valen> its biological
[03:38:14] <Valen> and hence slow
[03:38:24] <Valen> the fast ways give you less bang for your buck
[03:38:35] <Jymmm> a completely renewable fuel resource without any refinerys ecvept the one on-board.
[03:39:07] <Valen> people who make bio-fuels do so in 44 gallon drums
[03:39:16] <Valen> generally they have 5 going at a time
[03:39:22] <Valen> and thats just bio-diesel
[03:39:25] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
[03:39:34] <Valen> sup frallzor
[03:40:03] <Jymmm> Valen: but it's not 140 proof either =)
[03:40:07] <archivist> producer gas/wood gas cars
[03:40:25] <Valen> electricity is where its at
[03:40:31] <Valen> no moving parts
[03:40:34] <Tom_L> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Ford_releases_open_source_kit_that_allows_drivers_to_hack_their_cars-article-fajb_ford_hack_feb2013-html.aspx
[03:40:37] <Valen> reprocessable batteries
[03:40:39] <Jymmm> nah, the battery technology isn't there
[03:40:50] <Valen> nanophosphate just gets it over the line
[03:40:50] <archivist> http://bo.lt/5mvdd
[03:40:51] <Jymmm> plus you only get 50 miles range
[03:40:58] <Valen> google tesla roadster
[03:41:20] <Jymmm> Valen: Dude, the Tesla plant is 20m from here =)
[03:41:24] <Jymmm> 20 minutes
[03:41:31] <Valen> and what is the range of a tesla?
[03:41:34] <archivist> electrickery still comes from a pawere station!
[03:41:40] <archivist> power
[03:41:59] <Valen> archivist: bigass solar concentrator connected to a free piston generator ;->
[03:42:22] <Valen> stick that on your roof and tell the photovoltaic weenies it cost 25% of theirs and makes 400% more power
[03:42:22] <frallzor> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant did this little thingie here, but I thought "I want one of the button to move all axises to set home" any ideas on how to proceed with that though? =P
[03:43:10] <Valen> Tom_itx: (presuming you are tom_L) note the read only part there
[03:43:33] <Valen> it sounds like a whole bunch of hoopla for plugging into the ODBII connector lol
[03:43:48] <Tom_itx> could be
[03:44:12] <Valen> I would be much happier if they open sourced the cabin computer
[03:44:25] <Valen> let me put ubuntu (or something less crap) on it and I'll be happy
[03:44:34] <Tom_itx> did you follow the open source link?
[03:44:38] <Tom_itx> maybe it tells more there
[03:44:56] <Valen> OpenXC is an API to your car - by installing a small hardware module to read and translate metrics from a car's internal network, the data becomes accessible from most Android applications using the OpenXC library.
[03:45:06] <Valen> so its an ODBII > bluetooth adaptor ;->
[03:45:12] <Tom_itx> ok
[03:45:30] <Jymmm> archivist: You think wood pellets would do the trick today for a wood burning car?
[03:46:00] <Valen> the big thing that would be good is if they have documented the crap going on on the can bus
[03:46:24] <Valen> Jymmm: external combustion steam turbine > electrical motion
[03:47:20] <Tom_L> Unless you are implementing custom CAN messages, you will most likely need a pre-built OpenXC binary from the manufacturer of your vehicle. Each OEM can decide whether or not to participate in OpenXC and if so, which types of data they wish to expose.
[03:47:47] <Valen> Tom_itx: what are you doing lol?
[03:47:59] <Tom_itx> reading my email
[03:48:05] <Tom_itx> it's on the other pc
[03:48:09] <Valen> lol
[03:48:17] <Jymmm> Valen: "Moreover, a wood gas car does not require a chemical battery, and this is an important advantage over an electric car. All too often, the embodied energy of the latter's enormous battery is forgotten. In fact, in the case of a producer gas vehicle, the wood behaves like a natural battery. There is no need for high tech recycling: the ash that remains, can be used as a fertilizer."
[03:48:37] <Tom_itx> it gives a list of supported vehicles
[04:20:06] <p0g0_> Jymmm: the energy content of wood is low compared to petrol.
[04:20:15] <Jymmm> and?
[04:20:26] <p0g0_> You'd be moving a lot more mass, more often, for the same miles
[04:20:53] <Jymmm> not sure about that
[04:21:09] <p0g0_> Jymmm: but you might be interested in the old (WW2) syngas coking tech, used to run jeeps.
[04:22:01] <p0g0_> Jymmm: the energy content per unit mass is much lower in wood, even kiln dried hardwoods.
[04:22:12] <Jymmm> so?
[04:23:08] <p0g0_> so, like having to eat hay instead of steak, you'd need to feed the car a more bulk.
[04:23:23] <Jymmm> ok, and?
[04:23:24] <p0g0_> if that doesn't make sense, I'll drop it
[04:23:59] <archivist> it make sense but the other has trouble understanding
[04:24:31] <Jymmm> I know what your saying, but so what? We're not tlaing apples to apples with todays cars, per se
[04:28:08] <Jymmm> For example.... have you ever looked at all the shit we throw out? Everything has a box, cereal, trashbags, junk mail, etc. Instead o draggin all that to the curb every week, what if you had some sort of pellet making machine. Then use the pellets for the wood gas car? YOu would save from transporting all that cardboard, much less processing it.
[04:28:43] <Jymmm> It may not be enough to fuel a car for a week but I'm sure it help.
[04:29:41] <Jymmm> Did you know it takes 3x more energy to recycle a 2L soda bottle that it does to make a brand new one (aka carbon footprint).
[04:34:41] <p0g0_> Jymmm: you'd have to be supremely good at source separation, or you'd be one of the worst pollutors out there.
[04:34:42] <frallzor> anyone wanna talk CNC? =P
[04:34:42] <p0g0_> sure, sorry...
[04:34:56] <Jymmm> frallzor: No, go away
[04:35:55] <Jymmm> frallzor: This is CNC... Cannibalized Navigational Contraptions!
[04:36:56] <frallzor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVh15aUt8-c suits the topic!
[04:38:03] <Jymmm> frallzor: No it doens't, we aint talking eco friendly green crap!
[04:38:26] <Jymmm> frallzor: 100 Year Cars!
[04:39:08] <frallzor> recycling = eco green crap you dirty hippie!
[04:39:20] <Jymmm> don't recycle, REUSE
[04:39:47] <Jymmm> (seriously)
[04:43:40] <Jymmm> archivist: Good luck on your exhaust.
[04:44:04] * Jymmm has a hawt date with a pillow. G'Night!
[05:05:21] <Mr_Wolfs> hi
[05:07:53] <frallzor> is there an easy way to make the
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant use a single button to touch off and a button to move all axises to the touched off postion?
[05:08:37] <frallzor> so I touch off, machine, move the gantry out of the way to change material, then push a button to move back to where I need to touch off, and then touch off again
[05:17:24] <Mr_Wolfs> How do you calcul the min-ferror?
[05:28:33] <archivist> a number of your choice depending on your resolution and accuracy requirements
[05:30:57] <Mr_Wolfs> ok
[05:31:13] <Mr_Wolfs> then 10 it's too much no?
[05:31:22] <Mr_Wolfs> for ferror and min_ferror
[05:31:56] <archivist> smaller is better for accuracy
[05:32:39] <Mr_Wolfs> yes I can't cause I have following error axis 2
[05:32:58] <Mr_Wolfs> I have no choice in this case
[05:33:02] <archivist> why, diagnose
[05:33:04] <jthornton> what was your maximum following error when you finished tuning the axis?
[05:33:48] <Mr_Wolfs> How can I see?
[05:36:05] <jthornton> hal scope
[05:37:10] <jthornton> frallzor, if you can do it in the MDI window than you can do it with a button
[05:44:07] <Mr_Wolfs> sometimes I have 0,04
[06:07:00] <frallzor> jthornton say what? =P
[06:08:49] <frallzor> I guess I have to make a "script" that is somehow loaded into linuxcnc and then able to call it?
[06:10:11] <frallzor> like "go down at 250mm/minut and trigger probe, go up 10mm, go down 10mm at 100mm/min and trigger, then set touch of to X. Go up 10mm" something like that I'd guess?
[06:16:19] <jthornton> I think a M1xx will do anything from the MDI so you can link a button to execute the MDI
[06:17:15] <jthornton> well it might not be able to do g code
[06:19:23] <frallzor> can you point me in the direction for understanding? =P
[06:27:15] <jthornton> as soon as I can make something work I will, in the mean time
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_halui_section_a_id_sub_halui_section_a
[06:27:49] <frallzor> ach so, any ideas on the touching off?
[06:27:55] <frallzor> easily done like that?
[06:39:19] <jthornton> ok, if you create a subroutine and add it to the ini like the link then you can call it with your button
[06:41:54] <jthornton> net mdi-test halui.mdi-command-00 <= your button name
[06:42:12] <frallzor> ah
[06:45:41] <jthornton> make sense?
[06:49:21] <frallzor> yup
[06:49:29] <frallzor> and im also in for a challenge now
[06:49:38] <frallzor> just tried yesterdays changes
[06:49:45] <frallzor> all worked on try 1
[06:49:50] <jthornton> nice
[06:49:51] <frallzor> im amazed!
[06:50:00] <frallzor> even gamepad works
[06:50:07] <jthornton> sweet
[06:50:16] <frallzor> have to flip a few axises to work like I stand, but no biggie
[06:50:27] <frallzor> but other than that, speed settings etc works
[06:51:07] <frallzor> just 2 challenges left I allways wanted now!
[06:51:20] <frallzor> the buttons for home and touch off, and computer controlled spindle
[06:52:51] <jthornton> on my plasma I just did MDI_COMMAND = G53 X0 Y0 Z0 and linked to a button
[06:53:09] <jthornton> opps MDI_COMMAND = G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0
[06:53:10] <frallzor> jthornton but
[06:53:18] <frallzor> I want Z = the touched of value
[06:53:32] <jthornton> that is my rapid to home button
[06:53:53] <frallzor> i want rapid home, but with Z = the touched off value =)
[06:54:01] <frallzor> not just 0 0 0
[06:54:17] <frallzor> or touched of value + 10
[06:54:20] <jthornton> use the variable for Z
[06:54:25] <frallzor> so I can touch of new materials
[06:55:04] <frallzor> Looked into touch off, but that ladder thingie looks soooo complicated
[06:55:12] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html#_numbered_parameters_a_id_sub_numbered_parameters_a
[06:55:14] <frallzor> surely it can be done easier?
[06:55:51] <jthornton> so your doing a Z probe move then setting your offset right?
[06:56:17] <jthornton> or are you jogging to a Z position then setting the offset?
[06:56:18] <frallzor> yeah i manually do that now, so I touch off, then home at the value I set
[06:56:35] <frallzor> so when touch off I know its at X about material
[06:56:42] <frallzor> *Above
[06:57:45] <jthornton> after you touch off you move to the home position?
[06:58:11] <frallzor> I set xy as 0, jog down Z to touch off, when touched off I set home as an offset that equals the probe
[06:58:54] <frallzor> the proble is just a block with a button
[06:59:04] <jthornton> you don't use the G54 offset for Z?
[06:59:10] <frallzor> so its height = home with offset above material
[06:59:14] <jthornton> using home screws up your soft limits
[06:59:34] <frallzor> Yeah its G54
[06:59:45] <frallzor> Im not that into terms and such =)
[07:00:53] <jthornton> ok, you had me confused for sure
[07:01:51] <jthornton> so if you put all that into G code and make a subroutine file then call that with your button via the MDI_COMMAND your good to go
[07:02:07] <frallzor> but hot to make the touch off as g-code?
[07:02:48] <frallzor> I want it to go down, trigger, go up, go down slower, touch of, go upp, then finally go down even slower, touch off, offset the value, then up say 10
[07:03:19] <frallzor> cant see how I would make that into g-code
[07:03:31] <frallzor> the go to XYZ I understand
[07:03:34] <frallzor> but not this
[07:03:42] <jthornton> are you using a probe input?
[07:03:50] <frallzor> yup
[07:03:54] <frallzor> or
[07:03:57] <frallzor> yeah
[07:04:01] <frallzor> its using that
[07:04:19] <frallzor> it stops jogging when it triggers it
[07:04:49] <jthornton> then use a probe move
[07:05:00] <frallzor> is there nice article to read? =)
[07:05:11] <frallzor> they tend to tell all you need to know
[07:05:24] <frallzor> like that simple pendant one, good one there ;)
[07:05:48] <jthornton> article on a probe move?
[07:13:01] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/40-subroutines-and-ngcgui/18775-probe-for-center-of-hole
[07:27:38] <frallzor> ill look into that
[07:29:07] <jthornton> hmm, I could make a probe sub to check the square of the vise and check the tram of the head...
[07:30:18] <jthornton> I need to hurry up and finish building the log splitter and build a probe for the BP
[08:11:49] <Icekiller> hey guys anyone here who i can bother with a cnc design?
[08:12:25] <archivist> depends on the definition of bother :)
[08:12:42] <Icekiller> http://sharpcoffeedev.net/cnc/totalguides.jpg want some input about hte Z-axis if its too smallf or general pcb milling and maybe in the future 3D extruding
[08:14:10] <archivist> for pcb but for general work you do need some z travel
[08:15:15] <archivist> you can always modify later
[08:16:52] <archivist> I did find that tool changing and fixture height meant I ran out of z quickly
[08:17:48] <Icekiller> hmm
[08:17:53] <Icekiller> "some"
[08:17:54] <Icekiller> but i mean
[08:17:57] <Icekiller> the head is like..
[08:17:58] <Icekiller> 4cm?
[08:17:59] <JT-Shop> it's -9C here today
[08:18:03] <Icekiller> i'm going in the pcb like
[08:18:14] <Icekiller> the pcb is 2mm..
[08:18:23] <Icekiller> copper layer is 20micron orsomething
[08:18:37] <Icekiller> so lets say for the sake of argument 0,5cm for pcb milling
[08:18:41] <Icekiller> + 4cm for the bit..
[08:20:02] <archivist> but you need to lift high enough to change bits and dont forget any chuck or holder change
[08:20:53] <archivist> I do think for PCB work you should be ok but for other jobs....
[08:21:05] <Icekiller> http://sharpcoffeedev.net/cnc/z-axis-design.png black is the rail
[08:21:10] <Icekiller> red is the alu plate
[08:21:12] <Icekiller> and green is the spindle
[08:21:46] <Icekiller> so how much would you recommend on z-axis? 200mm?
[08:22:04] <archivist> depends on applications
[08:22:22] <Icekiller> ..? glass/ "wood"/ pcb..
[08:23:32] <archivist> it is very easy to run out of height when you want to use a drill chuck and cheap twist drill
[08:24:32] <archivist> I learned the hard way and added packing under my mill column
[08:25:53] <Icekiller> ok thanks :-)
[08:25:57] <archivist> I dont have enough X and Y but that is another story
[08:25:58] <Icekiller> may i ask a picutre of your CNC?
[08:26:06] <Icekiller> well
[08:26:09] <Icekiller> this seems pretty big
[08:26:10] <Icekiller> for pc's
[08:26:11] <Icekiller> for pcb's
[08:26:13] <archivist> mine is fugly
[08:26:17] <Icekiller> and glass and smaller engraving
[08:26:21] <Icekiller> archivist i just mean for the proportions
[08:26:38] <Icekiller> don't worry i won't submit it to a beauty pageant
[08:26:58] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stage8/IMG_0268.JPG
[08:27:24] <archivist> the rotaries need the Z being a lot higher
[08:30:43] <Icekiller> hmm a seocnd question than.. acme or ballscrews for this kinda thing..?
[08:31:05] <archivist> for good work ballscrews
[08:31:52] <archivist> if you control play and backlash you can get away with acme
[08:33:41] <archivist> if you only cut conventional and from one direction and are clever with your gcode you can get away with backlash but not recommended
[08:34:00] <Icekiller> hmm
[08:34:09] <Icekiller> may i ask where you are from archivist? (europe/us)
[08:34:23] <archivist> do not use cam software if you have backlash
[08:34:29] <archivist> UK
[08:34:32] <Icekiller> ah ok
[08:34:36] <Icekiller> may i ask where you got your ballscrews?
[08:34:52] <Icekiller> and you marchive is basicly a lathe machine or am i looking at it wrong?
[08:35:06] <archivist> I dont have ballscrews on that
[08:35:10] <Icekiller> ah hehe
[08:35:31] <archivist> it is a mill made from an old lathe
[08:35:34] <Icekiller> i have found cnc4you.co.uk but even than the ballscrews would be around 210 pounds + shipping
[08:35:48] <Icekiller> (i'm across the narrow stream, Belgium)
[08:35:52] <archivist> and an XY table from a tool setting jig
[08:36:23] <JT-Shop> a thing of beauty archivist
[08:36:28] <archivist> hehe
[08:36:48] <archivist> I claim teh fugly prize
[08:38:14] <JT-Shop> frallzor: you get it working?
[08:48:40] <Icekiller> archivist :) thanks for your help
[08:49:13] <Icekiller> is there anyone here from the UK/Belgium/Netherlands by any chance with any spare (for sale) ballscrews? 2x 400mm & 200mm pm :)
[08:49:46] * archivist hides his stash....of one
[08:50:44] <frallzor> JT-Shop not tried yet
[08:51:06] <frallzor> although encountered some odd thing with the gamepad just now
[08:51:10] <frallzor> the invert axis
[08:51:19] <frallzor> what does the number mean?
[08:53:46] <frallzor> can one invert without a value since my axis inverted wont stop moving with that value =P
[08:57:23] <frallzor> or I assume that value is specific for the pad you used so i need to find out the values for mine!
[09:11:00] <JT-Shop> yea, yours might be different... I just inverted as needed
[09:12:54] <frallzor> can it be checked inside of emc?
[09:13:00] <frallzor> *linuxCNC
[09:13:05] <frallzor> via the hal thingie there
[09:17:21] <JT-Shop> yea, I think the 127.5 is the max reading when you moved the joystick
[09:18:37] <frallzor> so i just use negative my value then =)
[09:20:45] <JT-Shop> yea
[10:05:11] <JT-Shop> it's only -8C now and the sun is shining, time to take the bicycle for a ride
[10:05:48] <frallzor> =P
[10:06:37] <archivist> going out in -8 for fun....must be a screw loose
[10:07:01] <r00t4rd3d> thats shorts weather here
[10:09:36] <JT-Shop> my van was stuck in the mud at my neighbors house down the road... I figure it will drive out now that the ground is a bit stiffer
[10:37:31] <JT-Shop> didn't go as planned but got it free non the less
[10:38:51] <JT-Shop> LOL got this back from an inquire on craigslist
[10:38:53] <JT-Shop> Hello,
[10:38:53] <JT-Shop> Thank you for the interest shown the 2008 New Holland TZ22DA I'm selling.
[10:38:53] <JT-Shop> I got the tractor from my ex husband in divorce 6 months ago and I'm selling it at the price of $ 1.900 because I just want to get rid of it and sell it very quickly. After the divorce I had to move in a new house in Bowie, MD so the tractor is in the shipping company's custody right now in MD. As you can see from the pictures the product is in mint condition, it is diesel, has many tools included( loader and mower ) and only 256 hours
[10:38:53] <JT-Shop> on it. It is paid off and 22 hp power.
[10:38:55] <JT-Shop> For the payment I prefer to use eBay services. I have to mention that I will receive the money only after you receive and inspect the tractor. I will pay for shipping and handling (my ex potential buyer did not received his loan but he already paid for shipping and I don`t want this to be done again ) so there won't be any additional costs for you. The firm price is $1900 and I`am not interested in trades.
[10:39:00] <JT-Shop> If you are interested in buying it please email me your FULL NAME and SHIPPING ADDRESS so I can get the ball rolling.
[10:39:03] <JT-Shop> I am look forward to hearing from you. Have a good day.
[10:42:39] <r00t4rd3d> sounds like a scam
[10:43:06] <JT-Shop> it screams scam!
[10:43:17] <r00t4rd3d> so you buying it?
[10:43:26] <JT-Shop> lol
[10:45:37] <ssi> "I will mail you a cashiers check for $25,000. Please cash this and send me back $26,900 in gold, at which time I will arrange shipping"
[10:45:40] <JT-Shop> there ain't nothing to buy
[10:45:48] <JT-Shop> LOL yea
[10:47:00] <r00t4rd3d> email them back and tell them you need 250 to get your truck out of impound cause it has your wallet in it
[10:47:43] <r00t4rd3d> then you will send them the money with the 250 plus an extra 50 for their troubles
[11:23:44] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[11:23:46] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Feb%2001%2C%2012%2004%2046%20PM.jpg
[11:23:50] <ReadError> my latest work
[11:24:05] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/CfsgQtg.jpg
[11:25:26] <Tecan> Redlight King - Old Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGt54Ozo8LQ
[11:31:12] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[11:38:15] <frallzor> ReadError quad i see
[11:38:56] <frallzor> if soo, bit heavy with the arms?
[11:39:10] <IchGuckLive> Folks i got a simple question for the large mashine i got a 12m long wire to the limit switch i use a 24V relay to detect the Switch NOW question 24V to the relay coil from there to the switch then to GND to trigger the Relay or the other way
[11:40:05] <IchGuckLive> Other way 24V to the Switch from switch pressed to the Relay coil A1 and A2 to the GND
[11:40:12] <IchGuckLive> Does this matter ?
[11:40:16] <ReadError> frallzor: arms are like 35g
[11:42:38] <IchGuckLive> PCW?
[11:42:55] <pcw_home> 24V to NC switch signal back from switch to relay coil 1 (and diode cathode) relay coil 2 to gnd
[11:43:16] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[11:43:20] <pcw_home> (and diode anode)
[11:43:42] <IchGuckLive> the prtection circuit is in the Reay socket
[11:44:10] <pcw_home> OK so make sure you get the polarity right
[11:44:46] <IchGuckLive> there is no printing of polarity only A1 A2
[11:44:57] <IchGuckLive> let me shoot a image
[11:45:31] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[11:45:37] <ReadError> cncrouterparts hit me back
[11:45:48] <ReadError> i asked them if they had a mount that would work on the dewalt 611
[11:45:53] <pcw_home> its a little safer thiis way because a broken wire or shorted to gnd wire both generate on-limit faults
[11:45:53] <ReadError> do you know the bore size?
[11:51:45] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home:
http://foengarage.de/relay.jpg
[11:52:21] <IchGuckLive> i guess its all in the socket
[11:55:21] <pcw_home> yeah so I guess the protection circuit is non polarized
[11:55:35] <IchGuckLive> B) :D
[11:57:34] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: but a NC switch can only stand alone
[11:58:08] <pcw_home> NC is better for limits since a broken wore will be detected
[11:58:14] <pcw_home> wire
[11:58:20] <IchGuckLive> yes i see
[11:58:37] <IchGuckLive> but if i go for All switches one wire
[11:58:49] <IchGuckLive> the others will keep te signal up
[11:59:01] <pcw_home> you connect them in series
[12:00:08] <IchGuckLive> i see so every switch triggers
[12:00:19] <IchGuckLive> got it
[12:01:33] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: this will bring the length of the signal to 65m+
[12:01:55] <IchGuckLive> back and forth XYZ
[12:03:51] <IchGuckLive> i will lock how i come over this
[12:05:35] <pcw_home> should just be a 1 wire loop from switch to switch
[12:06:00] <Icekiller> hmm question if you are using trapezium rod do you need to use extra hardware to convert 1 turn on the motor to "less" if you want to make it more accurate?
[12:06:27] <Icekiller> cause if the acme thread is 5mm than 1 full turn is 5mm so not very accurate?
[12:06:30] <IchGuckLive> no if you use TR20x4 its 400
[12:07:00] <IchGuckLive> the 5mm gives you a 20/25 pulley timebelt
[12:07:10] <frysteev> any concerns with using induction prox sensors for home switches?
[12:07:10] <Icekiller> 400?
[12:07:12] <Icekiller> 400 what?
[12:07:25] <cradek> frysteev: no, that's very normal
[12:07:33] <IchGuckLive> 400steps per Rev on the motor (Stepper)
[12:07:36] <Icekiller> ah ok
[12:07:38] <cradek> frysteev: you probably want to use index too, because they're not too repeatable
[12:07:50] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: so 4/400 =0.01mm
[12:07:50] <Icekiller> and 400 steps = 400 complete turns?
[12:08:03] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: where are you from
[12:08:08] <IchGuckLive> USA Europ
[12:08:13] <Icekiller> europe
[12:08:14] <IchGuckLive> Metric or inch
[12:08:15] <Icekiller> close to you fyi :P
[12:08:16] <frysteev> cradek: boo i was hoping they would be repeatable
[12:08:19] <Icekiller> metric ;)
[12:08:29] <Icekiller> ich verstehen ja deutsch.. aber TR20x4 = 800euro?
[12:08:31] <Icekiller> xD
[12:08:37] <Icekiller> got a weird first hit :)
[12:08:51] <IchGuckLive> Icekiller: Querry
[12:09:03] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[12:32:37] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, 69mm/2.71inch
[12:34:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.probotix.com/spindles_and_mounts/
[12:35:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://romaxxcncrouters.com/store#!/~/product/category=2363055&id=10142582
[12:46:38] <r00t4rd3d> You have a mill dont you?
[12:46:50] <r00t4rd3d> make one ya turd sniffer
[12:47:14] <ReadError> i would need a fat chunk of aluminum
[12:49:07] <tjb1> I could EDM that in like an hour r00t4rd3d :P
[12:49:35] <r00t4rd3d> if they would let you go near the machines.
[12:49:51] <tjb1> I go near them
[12:49:58] <r00t4rd3d> use them
[12:50:11] <tjb1> I do
[12:50:14] <tjb1> I don't have a use for it
[12:50:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.probotix.com/image/BC_tool_holder.jpg
[12:50:49] <r00t4rd3d> make me and ReadError one of them then
[12:51:05] <tjb1> How thick is bottom?
[12:51:18] <r00t4rd3d> looks to me about an inch
[12:51:33] <IchGuckLive> cut it with a watercutter and done !
[12:51:41] <IchGuckLive> no need of precision
[12:52:12] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: Go slow and hacksaw the slot
[12:52:15] <tjb1> Your machine can do it
[12:52:44] <r00t4rd3d> my machine is all apart atm
[12:53:22] <tjb1> >:(
[12:53:36] <r00t4rd3d> just spent another hondo with Ahren
[12:53:51] <tjb1> My orders total $1300 with him
[12:53:59] <r00t4rd3d> totally rewired my cnc computer
[12:54:27] <r00t4rd3d> and got it ready for ssd and pcie wifi
[12:54:31] <tjb1> I still havent set up my new one
[12:55:35] <r00t4rd3d> i removed my power led cause of the wires but i had to put it back in cause i couldnt tell if it was on or not
[12:57:27] <r00t4rd3d> i installed 10.04 on a usb stick to mess around till the ssd gets here
[12:57:52] <tjb1> I have a fairly old SSD…hoping it doesnt die :)
[12:58:38] <ReadError> jeeze tjb1
[12:58:45] <ReadError> what did you spend 1300 on?
[12:58:51] <ReadError> you running 23 or 34?
[12:58:54] <tjb1> 4 axis kit
[12:59:24] <tjb1> rack clamps, rack and pinion drives
[12:59:33] <tjb1> carriages, bearing blocks
[12:59:52] <ReadError> the gear ratio on the 34 kit looks different
[13:00:00] <ReadError> like i might get better resolution with 23s
[13:00:58] <IchGuckLive> 34 8Nm
[13:01:09] <IchGuckLive> or for a Hell 12Nm
[13:02:11] <IchGuckLive> 12Nm at 80V kill all your Leadscrew and mechanics
[13:02:38] <ReadError> me IchGuckLive?
[13:02:59] <IchGuckLive> no
[13:06:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/QTY-2-STECH-VELOCITY-V4SD2SB-32UCT-32GB-SLIM-SSD-EMBEDDED-SOLID-STATE-DRIVE-/370746902508?pt=US_Solid_State_Drives&hash=item56523cc7ec
[13:06:37] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/worm.jpg my nice littel homemade worm 30/1
[13:07:29] <IchGuckLive> r00t4rd3d: do they fit the 525D
[13:07:44] <r00t4rd3d> IchGuckLive, they are sata so yeah
[13:08:16] <IchGuckLive> woudt give a nice setup for a router without PC box
[13:08:47] <r00t4rd3d> silent also
[13:09:03] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:13:04] <frallzor> JT-Shop I really cant get swap to work
[13:13:48] <frallzor> it just makes my axis I set to swap run by itself when I select speed =P
[13:16:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.arktechinc.com/ci02/ci02.htm
[13:17:25] <r00t4rd3d> think i am going to move to that
[13:19:26] <Jymmm> http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Another-homeowner-says--156468255.html
[13:27:56] <frallzor_roaming> Ahoyhoy
[13:44:56] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/kzfnEdS.png
[14:04:32] <JT-Shop> frallzor: look at halui.jog.0.anlog to see that it swings from -1 to 0 to +1
[14:04:56] <frallzor> does
[14:06:04] <frallzor> or the joysticks show 1 and -1
[14:06:17] <frallzor> so all good i guess
[14:07:27] <frallzor> but its not the values i want right?
[14:07:39] <frallzor> since its not close to -127.5 like in the example =P
[14:12:10] <JT-Shop> does the jog.0.anlog show 0 at the center or near to 0
[14:20:31] <frallzor> near
[14:38:08] <JT-Shop> but the axis still runs away when you press the enable button?
[14:41:20] <JT-Shop> yea! the new switch for the shop vac showed up... today is like xmas
[14:42:47] <frallzor> yup
[14:42:57] <frallzor> all axises work like they shold
[14:43:02] <frallzor> except swapped =)
[14:43:07] <frallzor> *should
[14:43:20] <frallzor> no unwanted movement until i try to add swap
[14:44:25] <JT-Shop> by "add swap" you mean negating the scale?
[14:45:23] <mrsun> is ther a vertical adjustment on tailstocks also ? :)
[14:48:15] <JT-Shop> yes, it is call shim stock
[14:49:00] <mrsun> :P
[14:49:45] <r00t4rd3d> super taliban
http://i.imgur.com/Td64GnB.jpg
[14:50:24] <r00t4rd3d> i wonder if that is where he stores his 12 year old bride?
[14:51:00] <frallzor> JT-Shop i guess so yes
[14:51:13] <frallzor> according to the article on simple pendant =)
[14:51:54] <frallzor> wish there was a simpler way though =P since this wont do it for me oddly enough
[14:54:22] <frallzor> where did you get the -127.5 value from? as you say i get 1 and -1
[14:54:56] <jthornton> the joystick goes from 0 to 255
[14:55:15] <jthornton> if it goes the wrong way you negate the center point for scale
[14:55:46] <jthornton> otherwise the center point for scale is 127.5
[14:55:58] <jthornton> see you back in the shop
[15:00:59] <JT-Shop> pastebin your hal file
[15:12:19] <frallzor> well its pretty much the same as yours on the site
[15:12:23] <frallzor> minus swaps now
[15:13:24] <frallzor> is the 0-255 same for all joysticks?
[15:14:25] <JT-Shop> yes afaik
[15:14:59] <frallzor> ill try again tomorrow then, no fun going out tinkering today now
[15:15:01] <JT-Shop> so is your scale 127.5 by default?
[15:15:07] <JT-Shop> ok
[15:15:15] <JT-Shop> I have to go too
[15:15:17] <frallzor> i set it to -127.5 as in the site
[15:15:55] <frallzor> *on
[15:16:23] <frallzor> ill try tomorrow with it again, since all other things work
[15:17:18] <JT-Shop> ok
[16:38:20] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[18:16:49] <Jymmm> ~~~ HF 3 Ton jack stand $14 coupon -
http://widgets.harborfreight.com/wswidgets/common/displayCoupon.do?week=0513&campaign=c&page=coupon3.html&cust=78020340697&keycode=1003&single=true
[19:01:57] <Jymmm> archivist:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1220835-replace-fuel-pump-without-dropping-gas-tank.html
[19:16:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanic
[20:37:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/gbsm6Uz.png?1
[22:50:42] <Connor> Anyone know much about safety relays ?
