#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-31

[00:00:20] <r00t4rd3d> the condom your mom insists i wear
[00:01:37] <r00t4rd3d> she says she has gonorrhea but I dont care, love her.
[00:02:04] <Jymmm> fucking/talking to the dead huh?
[00:02:39] <r00t4rd3d> play with the trolls and you might get bridged.
[00:05:20] <r00t4rd3d> im sure the monkey is dead too.
[00:32:25] <tjb1> Jymmm: Get that done yet?
[00:37:06] <Jymmm> tjb1: "that" "it" 'those" "them" means nothing without context.
[00:37:22] <tjb1> The gas tank you have been pissing around with for a month :)
[00:37:47] <Jymmm> working on it now
[00:39:26] <Jymmm> you need one of these http://www.etoolcart.com/gastankfuelpumpremovaltool.aspx
[00:59:03] <Connor> okay, so, does anyone know of any servo drivers that work with linuxcnc that let linuxcnc stay in the PID loop? hopefully not the really expensive ones..
[01:02:10] <archivist> home made ones :)
[01:03:01] <Connor> Yea, I'm thinking that's about it.. maybe a heavy duty H-Bridge and drive it via PWM..
[01:03:16] <Connor> Would have prefered that for my Spindle controller vs the KBCC-R
[01:03:41] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:05:36] <archivist> connor for an example of really cheap look at http://axis.unpythonic.net/etchcnc
[01:06:34] <Connor> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipment-6V-90V-15A-Pulse-Width-PWM-DC-Motor-Speed-Controller-Switch/678526084.html
[01:06:59] <archivist> Connor, and the servo update http://emergent.unpythonic.net/projects/01142347802
[01:08:38] <Connor> Hmm... Maybe not...
[01:08:47] <Connor> that has a pot.. not sure it takes PWM in ??
[01:10:31] <Jymmm> It's like THIS |<----------------------------------------------->| for out of reach to insert he fuel line release tool all the way
[01:10:41] <Jymmm> s/for/far/
[01:11:13] <Jymmm> s/he/the/
[01:11:17] <archivist> Connor, look at my second link which is the servo upgrade to it http://emergent.unpythonic.net/projects/01142347802
[01:11:29] * Jymmm needs a 12" midget
[01:12:09] <Connor> archivist: I'm needing one that can do around 90v at 13.5amps.
[01:13:19] <archivist> you can make if you have the skills
[01:13:41] <archivist> a speed controller is not a servo driver though
[01:13:50] <Connor> I don't have a issue with making one.. I can follow a schematic.
[01:14:04] <Connor> just hoping to find something already done..
[01:14:39] <archivist> skunkworks, was developing one but then found some cheap on fleabay
[01:14:41] <Connor> wouldn't think it would be hard to find a servo driver that can do 90v at 13 or so amps that works in velocity(speed) mode that doesn't cost so damn much
[01:16:03] <archivist> but for best servo control you do need some form of fpga card
[01:16:41] <archivist> because the encoder signals are too fast for the parallel port direct
[01:17:12] <Connor> yea. Was going to use mesa.
[01:30:03] <archivist> Connor, this was a skunkworks test http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/ampmessagain.jpg, he has circuits in the directory too somewhere
[01:32:09] <archivist> like http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/eaglesch.JPG but ask him when around for status
[02:09:22] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:10:57] <Jymmm> $20 cash to anyone that can remove this last fuel line in the next 20m WITHOUT damaging anything
[02:24:54] <DJ9DJ> hola Jymmm
[02:41:50] <Jymmm> ok, 99.999% from removing the fuel pump!
[03:28:54] <Jymmm> It's out and on my bench!!!!!!!
[03:29:23] <archivist> at this point you find it is the external wiring at fault
[03:29:48] <Jymmm> external to where?
[03:29:52] <Jymmm> the harness?
[03:29:58] <archivist> :)
[03:30:14] <Jymmm> Yeah, Murphy is a dead man when I catch him =)
[03:30:31] <Jymmm> But.... I made sure that was NOT the case in this instanance....
[03:30:53] <Jymmm> 1) I checked the hharness at the last connector.... 12V
[03:31:12] <Jymmm> 2) I hit the pump directly with 12V from the battery, nada
[03:31:16] <archivist> I took a gearbox out once, was a siezed bush out side the box on the selector mechanism no need to take the box to bits at all
[03:31:45] <Jymmm> I got lucky... I did NOT have to drop the tank
[03:32:54] <Jymmm> If you drop the spare tire, there is actually enough room to remove the fuel pump/sender assembly just above it.
[03:33:19] <Jymmm> This should be the same for Expedition, Navigator, and maybe F-150 series
[03:33:28] <Jymmm> Mine is 2001
[03:34:17] <Jymmm> Actually, there's enough room up there to smuggle someone it they're small enough
[03:36:11] <Jymmm> archivist: Now, watch the fucking pump I got today be the wrong one. It already smells of gasoline (used or factory tested?), suppose to be NEW
[04:27:24] <Jymmm> archivist: Ok, tested both pump with a 9V battery... Old one WANTS to turn, but can't. New one spins like a lil jet engine.
[04:33:39] <archivist> remove turd jamming the old one
[04:43:38] <Jymmm> heh
[04:43:59] <Jymmm> Crap, the strainer I received is 3x SMALLER than the original one.
[04:44:36] <Jymmm> there's a great way to fubar a new pump
[05:58:33] <test__> test
[06:45:58] <jthornton> failed
[07:12:10] * mrsun has ground his first drill bit! not the best grind, getting different size chips and 0.5mm oversized hole but :P
[07:12:20] <mrsun> need to make a gage or something =)
[07:14:44] <mrsun> guage
[07:14:45] <mrsun> ? :P
[07:19:04] <archivist> make sure you get the angle balanced side to side, also the lip length the same
[07:19:42] <archivist> we used to fiddle the lip length to get an in between size
[07:26:12] <mrsun> archivist, yeah but hard to measure without a guage
[07:26:30] <mrsun> atleast it cut like butter compared to the broken off corners etc it had before
[07:26:34] <mrsun> was realy torn up
[07:26:54] <mrsun> and the hole size is there to be sloppy for adjustment so =)
[07:27:07] <mrsun> no problem that it got bigger, have to train on this tho, drillbits are expensive =)
[07:28:35] <archivist> if close to size hand stone to adjust the short sid a bit
[07:28:55] <mrsun> oh =)
[07:29:01] <Loetmichel> mrsun: a trained grinder needs no gauge ;-)
[07:29:12] <mrsun> Loetmichel, well this is the first time for me :P
[07:29:18] <jthornton> there are a couple of good vidoes out there on hand sharpening bits
[07:29:21] <mrsun> and im sure that the trained grinders had one to begin with also :P
[07:29:22] * archivist giggles at the term trained
[07:29:47] * Loetmichel had used tha drill grinding as a "relax time" in his apprentice-time.
[07:30:31] <Loetmichel> whenever oi had no drve to do may regular wort i had broken ean drill bita and asked the boss "i have to regrind it, can i?"
[07:41:23] <skunkworks> seb_kuzm1nsky, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/trade_shows_events/172757-cnc_workshop_colorado.html
[07:41:50] <skunkworks> kinda expensive... I like that the picture looks like a wood lathe...
[08:23:04] <cradek> enco currently has the rare 15% off plus free shipping deal
[08:35:11] <skunkworks> ends friday!!
[09:44:22] <seb_kuzm1nsky> skunkworks: thanks for the pointer!
[09:51:32] <cradek> if only I needed something, now would be a good time to get it.
[09:51:36] <jdh> anyone have an estimate of how fast a cheap chinese 40w co2 laser can cut 0.25" acrylic type stuff?
[09:52:04] <jdh> I was at a vendor site yesterday. They had a well worn Enco mill sitting next to a Haas
[09:59:15] <seb_kuzm1nsky> i'm converting an enco g0704 from manual to cnc with some friends at the hackspace
[09:59:34] <seb_kuzm1nsky> they're all 3d printer people venturing into machining for the first time
[09:59:39] <jdh> grizzly g0704?
[09:59:43] <seb_kuzm1nsky> yeah
[09:59:51] <seb_kuzm1nsky> that's what i meant ;-)
[10:00:10] <seb_kuzm1nsky> it's interesting how different their view is on what constitutes a useful cad drawing
[10:00:17] <seb_kuzm1nsky> they're used to just "make an stl and hit print"
[10:00:34] <seb_kuzm1nsky> no worries about setups & work holding, tool choice, order of operations...
[10:00:52] <jdh> work holding is my biggest problem.
[10:01:38] <cradek> unfortunately that looks like a pretty poor machine for cnc
[10:01:49] <cradek> are you changing the screws or just sticking motors on it?
[10:02:01] <seb_kuzm1nsky> we can't aford new screws :-/
[10:02:04] <seb_kuzm1nsky> afford
[10:02:53] <seb_kuzm1nsky> cradek: iirc i once considered converting a sieg x2, whcih is even less suited to it!
[10:02:55] <jdh> I paid $199 for chinese screws for mine.
[10:03:23] <seb_kuzm1nsky> jdh: wow, that's cheap! ballscrews and nuts, or just ballscrews?
[10:03:39] <jdh> machined ballscrews & nuts
[10:03:46] <cradek> I converted a sherline lathe, and it actually works pretty well
[10:03:49] <seb_kuzm1nsky> hmmmm, got a link?
[10:04:03] <jdh> I could send you the guys email
[10:04:18] <seb_kuzm1nsky> jdh: please do, i'm seb at highlab.com
[10:04:26] <seb_kuzm1nsky> well, got to go, see you all later
[10:05:38] <jdh> sent
[10:07:37] <jdh> it's still a G0704, it is what it is. Not a 'real' machining center, but I have less than $2k in it for all new stuff.
[10:25:55] <seb_kuzm1nsky> jdh: thanks!!
[10:29:28] <jdh> certainly.
[10:33:45] <r00t4rd3d> i came this > < close to buying a g540 last night
[10:35:38] <jdh> how close is that?
[10:35:41] <jdh> one click away?
[10:42:49] <JT-Shop> what the heck are these popups that firefox is adding to web pages now with underlined words with a link to some crap
[10:44:37] <JT-Shop> ha I found it
[10:45:13] <JT-Shop> crumb nope
[10:45:16] <JT-Shop> it's back
[10:46:21] <JT-Shop> opera don't do it so it is a firefox thing
[11:01:57] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
[11:02:33] <frallzor> decided that Ill keep my old profiles from the 2.3.5 install, but now the Q is, what does one need to backup to save all?
[11:03:29] <jdh> your ~/linuxcnc and/or ~/emc2
[11:04:14] <frallzor> isnt there profiles folder or similar?
[11:05:32] <jdh> there is a config directory under the above
[11:06:22] <frallzor> cant one just backup that then?
[11:07:19] <jdh> ok
[11:07:25] <frallzor> on the desktop I have a folder named after my profiles
[11:07:45] <frallzor> that isnt in any of the above folders
[11:10:20] <frallzor> oh hell, ill take both, so i wont miss anything
[11:12:03] <frallzor> stepconf and the rest is there, seems its all one ned
[11:13:57] <frallzor> new question regarding linux in general, how come my bootable usb with the new dist works on one computer, but not the one im using for emc? =P
[11:16:18] <jdh> how does it fail to work?
[11:16:37] <frallzor> "boot error"
[11:16:43] <frallzor> but booted fine on this computer
[11:17:55] <jdh> dunno. only problem I've ever had was not enabling 'boot from usb' in the BIOS setup.
[11:19:55] <frallzor> since it errors it reads it atleast
[11:20:21] <frallzor> maybe I setup the usb the wrong way
[11:27:35] <JT-Shop> me/ uninstalls firefox from this computer
[11:27:57] <anonimasu> mhm, another full day of swapping parts -_-
[11:28:55] <jdh> me/ hands JT a copy of Chrome
[11:30:46] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, are you going to make an anouncemnt on the forum?
[11:30:58] <JT-Shop> not to use firefox?
[11:31:46] <skunkworks> well- to attach files...
[11:32:25] <JT-Shop> I thought jepler found a simple fix?
[11:32:37] <skunkworks> I don't think it has been applied yet
[11:32:47] <skunkworks> so maybe wait
[11:33:37] <anonimasu> part swap time again...
[11:34:17] <JT-Shop> jdh: why does chrome want you to log in?
[11:35:16] <jdh> so you can share bookmarks and open tabs between computers
[11:35:25] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:35:29] <jdh> or, so google can better track you to target ads better.
[11:35:43] <JT-Shop> that sounds more like it LOL
[11:35:44] <jdh> but, I do like the bookmark & tab sharing
[11:36:04] <JT-Shop> what is tab sharing?
[11:36:07] <jdh> I can open chrome on my phone and get to the same tabs that are up on my home computer.
[11:36:48] <JT-Shop> eye phone?
[11:37:09] <jdh> android... Galaxy Note @
[11:37:13] <jdh> err... 2...
[11:37:37] <JT-Shop> I have one of those crappy eye phones
[11:37:38] <jdh> there is a Chrome for iPhone also though.
[11:37:50] <jdh> it's not crappy, just tiny
[11:38:42] <jdh> my eyes got too old for iPhone screens.
[11:38:49] <frallzor> new stick same error
[11:39:00] <jdh> http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2591582
[11:39:01] <frallzor> why oh why
[11:39:27] <frallzor> anyone installed via live-cd from usb and can share the progress? =)
[11:39:28] <jdh> sounds like a computer problem, call your mfgrs help line!
[11:40:05] <jdh> frall: I just booted my USB stick and it installed.
[11:40:28] <frallzor> how did you go about prepping the stick?
[11:41:10] <jdh> I did it in windows... don't recall the app name.
[11:42:31] <jdh> app at pendrivelinux.com
[11:43:21] <frallzor> hmm the one I used then
[11:43:31] <jdh> hrm... I think I used unetbootin last time
[11:43:48] <jdh> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[11:43:56] <frallzor> that rings some bells
[11:45:02] <JT-Shop> does chrome have an ad block?
[11:45:39] <jdh> you can add them via the extensions thing
[11:47:04] <jdh> the only thing I miss from firefox is FoxyProxy
[11:51:31] <psha> frallzor: i've installed - just forced grub to load vmlinuz from iso image...
[11:52:00] <frallzor> how?
[11:52:06] <frallzor> im not that into linux =)
[11:52:26] <psha> hm, then better take unetbootin :)
[11:53:10] <frallzor> tried it all
[11:53:15] <frallzor> same boot error
[11:53:34] <jdh> did you check the md5sums ?
[11:55:00] <frallzor> nah, just downloaded again
[11:55:45] <frallzor> ill try the annoying way now, external ODD
[11:55:56] <jdh> how 80's
[11:57:54] <frallzor> gonna download once more to a different location and also verify checksum
[12:00:30] <r00t4rd3d> frallzor, what is happening why you try to install?
[12:00:41] <r00t4rd3d> why/when
[12:01:28] <frallzor> the familiar boot logo of the motherboard, seems to read usb, then "boot error"
[12:01:30] <frallzor> all it says
[12:01:52] <r00t4rd3d> how did you copy the files onto the usb stick?
[12:01:56] <Mr_Wolfs> hi
[12:02:34] <frallzor> unetbootin, pendrive app
[12:02:40] <frallzor> tried both
[12:03:14] <r00t4rd3d> see if there is a update for your bios
[12:03:33] <frallzor> well it have worked with the live-cd for 2.3.5
[12:03:43] <frallzor> seems odd if it shouldnt work now
[12:05:13] <charlie> hi Mr_Wolfs!
[12:07:00] <frallzor> trying another usb-stick now =P
[12:11:15] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:16:25] <Connor> skunkworks: archivist was saying something last night about you building/finding a servo controller that's pretty inexpensive that passes the encoder info on to linuxcnc ?
[12:16:41] <Connor> The Gecko style is step/dir.. no way to get linuxcnc into the PID loop
[12:16:58] <Connor> and all the other servo controllers I've found are for really high end servo's.
[12:17:09] <Connor> want something that can handle 13.5amps around 90v
[12:17:25] <Connor> PWM driven most likly..
[12:17:51] <archivist> last night was this morning for me :)
[12:18:04] <Connor> blah!
[12:18:05] <Connor> :)
[12:20:18] <IchGuckLive> conor yaskawa
[12:20:21] <IchGuckLive> omron
[12:20:40] <IchGuckLive> there are lots of on the ebay
[12:24:08] <skunkworks> Connor, archivist, that is not ringing a bell....
[12:24:51] <skunkworks> I built a servo amp that was only lightly tested... But for brushed servo. (just a dumb pwm amp)
[12:25:12] <Connor> that's what I'm talking about I guess.
[12:25:26] <archivist> I know you only got so far :)
[12:25:28] <Connor> It didn't use encoder info at all ?
[12:25:39] <skunkworks> no - right to linuxcnc
[12:25:46] <archivist> the encoder goes to the mesa card
[12:25:50] <skunkworks> right
[12:26:21] <skunkworks> Connor, amc drives are usually pretty cheap on ebay. they have brushed/brushless
[12:26:22] <Connor> Some of the higher end servo drivers I've looked at, takes the encoder in, and outputs it too.. I think so it can handle the velocity side maybe?
[12:26:36] <skunkworks> yes - usually
[12:27:02] <archivist> some people have differing definitions of cheap
[12:27:19] <skunkworks> heh - cheaper than new
[12:27:20] * jthornton likes that
[12:27:23] <Connor> On price point or under of the Gecko.
[12:28:28] <skunkworks> connor - brushed or brushless?
[12:29:36] <Connor> brushed
[12:32:17] <skunkworks> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brushless-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-B25A20ACQ-AU5-/261150179069?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccdc37efd
[12:32:25] <skunkworks> these even have the power supply in them...
[12:33:01] <archivist> brushed ?
[12:33:01] <skunkworks> 25 peak - 12.5 cont - brushed or brushless
[12:33:22] <skunkworks> The B's will do both - but you might want to download the specs to be sure
[12:34:06] <skunkworks> there are atleast 2 on ebay right now
[12:34:53] <Connor> Just look for Advanced Motion Controls.. I looked at them last night.. I was just confused.. I was expecting to see them take the encoder info in and send it out so they could handle the speed/velocity..
[12:35:05] <skunkworks> some do - some don't
[12:35:21] <skunkworks> The BE's do - but the b's usually only take tach
[12:35:26] <Connor> I guess, the truth of the mater is.. for what i'm thinking of using this for.. a Gecko might work just fine.
[12:36:25] <skunkworks> usually will do current and voltage mode.
[12:36:29] <Connor> Looking for 4th axis. Going to use my original G0704 motor for it.. add a AMT102 encoder to it.. and direct drive a 7x lathe spindle.
[12:37:13] <Connor> What to be able to do lathe mode and index mode with it.. Figured a servo would be best way to go.
[12:48:56] <jdh> are you getting another 7x headstoock?
[12:49:20] <Connor> No. I'll probably use my existing one.
[12:49:33] <Connor> would rather have a 5C Headstock though..
[12:50:58] <archivist> will there be conflicting requirements lathe v indexing
[12:51:18] <Connor> archivist: Explain ?
[12:51:53] <archivist> any spindle brake for indexing and what use case
[12:52:49] <archivist> and any accuracy needs when indexing
[12:53:01] <Connor> archivist: Are you saying there will be conflicting requirements? You phrased it as a question.. so, I'm confused.
[12:55:07] <pcw_home> You would need a pretty high res encoder for decent indexing
[12:55:19] <archivist> when indexing how rigidly held by the servo against what radius of cutting force
[12:55:33] <Connor> those AMT's will do 2048 PPR
[12:56:30] <archivist> for a 500 tooth gear you could be cutting that is a poor resolution
[12:57:03] <pcw_home> I would think a brake would be required for a direct drive indexing
[12:57:37] <pcw_home> Or a pretty heavy chuck
[12:58:06] <Connor> I'm still working on other things ATM.. this is long term idea..
[12:58:12] <Connor> just trying to figure out what's needed.
[12:58:39] <Connor> Maybe gearing it down will be needed.. I don't recall the RPM of the motor..
[12:59:02] <archivist> or a large radius servo motor so it has the torque...but then its poor at speed for lathe
[12:59:03] <Connor> I know it could do 3000RPM on the Mill before I removed it.. and that was geared down.
[13:00:35] <jdh> how about two motors... normal one for lathe mode. Or pulley/stepper for index
[13:02:21] <Connor> I think a servo motor with maybe a spindle break will work. gear/pulley reduction may be needed. I'll check out the RPM this weekend on that moror.
[13:02:25] <Connor> motor
[13:05:07] <Connor> Here is the gear train on the G0704. 20T on motor, 37T on the driver gear.. linked to a 42T/62T which drivers a 60T/70T
[13:07:38] <Connor> So... something like 5722 RPM..
[13:07:55] <Connor> 20T/37T is .540 gear reduction.
[13:08:06] <Connor> 62/60 is 1.03..
[13:08:17] <Connor> Top speed in high gear was around 3000RPM
[13:13:25] <jdh> You kept your change gear?
[13:14:46] <r00t4rd3d> anyone with a d525
[13:14:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/290789035980?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[13:15:15] <r00t4rd3d> antennas
[13:15:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/250848033418?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[13:15:44] <Connor> jdh No. Just back tracking the original gearing to get he RPM of the motor.
[13:17:15] <r00t4rd3d> im getting my 525 to function with only power wires connected
[13:17:36] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: ?? Explain what you mean
[13:18:19] <r00t4rd3d> the 525 has a usb ssd header to eliminate the harddrive and a pci-e mini slot for a mini wireless card
[13:18:42] <r00t4rd3d> more compact i guess
[13:19:30] <r00t4rd3d> dont have to listen to a hard drive or have a wireless card/usb
[13:19:32] <mrsun> hmm anyone has a mechmate ?
[13:19:37] <mrsun> have built one
[13:22:35] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: Oh, your using the pic-e for the HD.
[13:23:20] <Connor> I just used a SSD HD because I wanted more space.. those little things don't have near the space as the SSD
[13:24:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.amazon.com/Embedded-PARTS-QUICK-Mini-ITX-industrial-motherboards/dp/B00724HO9W
[13:24:49] <r00t4rd3d> i got a smaller one but that one would be enough for linux and windows
[13:25:09] <Connor> Ehh.. USB ??
[13:25:18] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a 525?
[13:25:19] <Connor> That's even slower.. why not a PCI-E one ?
[13:25:23] <Connor> Yes.
[13:25:40] <r00t4rd3d> it has a special port
[13:25:57] <r00t4rd3d> right next to the pci slot, brown usb header
[13:26:14] <r00t4rd3d> read your manual about what that is
[13:26:51] <jdh> I have two 525's. One gives me real-time errors
[13:27:23] <r00t4rd3d> "One port is implemented with an internal header (brown-colored) that
[13:27:23] <r00t4rd3d> supports an Intel® Z-U130 USB Solid-State Drive or compatible device"
[13:27:41] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: Yes, I see that.. but, it's STILL USB based.
[13:27:56] <Connor> You can get the SSD's in PCI-E that will run faster.
[13:28:07] <r00t4rd3d> wifi in pci-e mini slot
[13:28:28] <Connor> Ah. See.. I would do it the other way around. USB for Wifi..
[13:28:38] <Connor> PCI-E for HD
[13:29:02] <r00t4rd3d> i got all my parts for less then 20
[13:29:10] <r00t4rd3d> cant do that your way for that #
[13:29:19] <jdh> anyone have latency issues caused by wifi?
[13:29:24] <Connor> How much are the SSD's that are PCI-E ?
[13:29:41] <r00t4rd3d> i got a 2gb for 5 bucks
[13:29:42] <jdh> I used a 'free' hardrive and a $6 wifi card
[13:29:48] <Connor> jdh: You turn off all the power management stuff ?
[13:30:09] <jdh> afaik
[13:30:26] <jdh> I still have it set up in my computer room. Need to clean off my router table and take it downstairs
[13:30:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANDISK-SSD-Mini-PCI-E-Hard-drive-16GBs-/261160261344?pt=US_Solid_State_Drives&hash=item3cce5d56e0
[13:30:52] <r00t4rd3d> hmmmmmmm
[13:30:58] <Connor> Bingo.
[13:33:04] <r00t4rd3d> still more expensive, that one is auction also so it might not go for that
[13:33:09] <r00t4rd3d> a new one is 20
[13:33:26] <r00t4rd3d> from china
[13:33:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/KingSpec-SATA-Mini-PCIe-MLC-8GB-SSD-for-AUSU-Eee-PC-S101-1000HC-Winpad-P100-/321003353747?pt=US_Solid_State_Drives&hash=item4abd4a7693
[13:33:52] <r00t4rd3d> 22 from usa :/
[13:38:18] <r00t4rd3d> im not sure how fast that internet usb head port is either
[13:38:31] <r00t4rd3d> it uses twice the amount of pins
[13:38:39] <r00t4rd3d> as a normal usb
[13:39:22] <Connor> Just because it has those pins doesn't mean it uses them..
[13:48:16] <jdh> the extra pins are the unused half of a regular dual USB header
[13:48:45] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: Trust me. USB is slower than PCI-E. No two ways about it.
[13:49:10] <anonimasu> Connor: checked out graphite drives?
[13:49:30] <Connor> anonimasu: ??
[13:49:34] <anonimasu> err granite devices
[13:49:49] <anonimasu> (I got a tip from a guy the other day that they work really well with old fanuc servos)
[13:52:10] <anonimasu> not ultra cheap, but they seem more sane then geckos for cnc projects :)
[13:52:32] <anonimasu> also, the power output seems pretty good
[13:53:09] <anonimasu> (I talked to a guy that works with fanuc repairs, he said if you buy a old mill you can just swap the drives out from the ones from granite devices and run emc or mach3 or whatever other option you go for
[13:58:05] <anonimasu> I need to figure how to connect a coffee maker to my lathe.
[13:58:13] <anonimasu> so it can make me coffee between cycles :p
[14:01:53] <anonimasu> next friday will be funny im going to hard turn some shafts with pcbn inserts
[14:01:55] <archivist> place a kettle on a hot servo
[14:02:21] <anonimasu> they dont get warm :/
[14:02:42] <archivist> not trying hard enough then
[14:03:16] <anonimasu> I have 15kw of spindle on the lathe I use like 2kw
[14:03:49] <frallzor> in 10.04 where is linuxCNC found? =)
[14:03:58] <frallzor> trying to find le configs folder
[14:04:24] <anonimasu> I wonder how a 10kw cut looks.
[14:04:33] <anonimasu> and how big chips will fall off.
[14:22:30] <jdh> I've been emailing this keling/automationwtf guy about the cheap chinese laser they sell. I've asked him repeatedly how thick you could cut acrylic and plywood. And how fast you coudl cut 1/4" acrylic. He has yet to say anything useful.
[14:23:03] <jdh> in software you can set to 0 to 30 mm/second. you use 19 ch/second
[14:23:16] <jdh> centi-henries?
[14:24:39] <frallzor> hmm who where had a nice setup to be used with a gamepad?
[14:24:57] <frallzor> remember getting a nice setup from someone
[14:25:14] <frallzor> with dead mans grip etc
[14:38:39] <ssi> seen this? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1651082654/jog-it-open-source-controller-pendant-for-emc2-and
[14:47:45] <frallzor> my gamepad was cheaper =)
[14:47:57] <frallzor> and does what I need it to do when setup =P
[14:48:18] <ssi> k, I'll keep my unheplful suggestions to my damn self :P
[14:51:50] <frallzor> =P
[14:53:40] <Nick001-Shop> ssi- what cards did you get for your hardinge?
[14:53:42] <frallzor> JT-Shop
[14:53:45] <frallzor> here?
[14:54:06] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: 7i49 and 7i37TA
[14:54:54] <Nick001-Shop> thanks - did you get all the resolvers working ok?
[14:56:15] <ssi> yeah, resolvers work great
[14:56:27] <ssi> although I had to send my '49 back to pcw and have him rescale them
[14:56:37] <ssi> because the HNC resolvers output much stronger than the stock one could handle
[14:57:17] <ssi> unfortunately, my machine is down right now
[14:57:23] <ssi> something's wrong in the turret pneumatics
[14:57:30] <ssi> and I don't understand it well enough to fix it :(
[14:58:47] <Nick001-Shop> you said you got some garbage in the line and you have to start cleaning stuff after you get a good filter on the airline.
[14:59:17] <anonimasu> pneumatics is like electrics pretty much air in stuff moves.. (tho you have a return line)
[14:59:24] <ssi> I thought that was what was wrong
[14:59:26] <anonimasu> take stuff apart label it and clean
[14:59:34] <ssi> I started disassembling things, and discovered that there was a broken check valve
[14:59:39] <anonimasu> also, air valves are tiny so tiny shit sticks inside
[14:59:53] <ssi> I replaced the check valve ($260 from hardinge :()
[14:59:57] <anonimasu> check valve = diodes for air systems
[15:00:01] <ssi> and put it back together, and now it's broken differently
[15:00:11] <jdh> progress!
[15:00:18] <ssi> I think it might be the four way solenoid valve on the backside, but I don't know how to go about testing it
[15:00:21] <Nick001-Shop> Does mesa have a record of what he had to do to the card? I'm getting ready to do the next Hardinge and would like to keep the resolvers
[15:00:25] <frallzor> hmm will the guide for adding gamepad as pendant work for 2.5?
[15:00:37] <ssi> I bet pcw would remember what he did for me
[15:00:41] <anonimasu> maybe you have debris from the broken valve somewhere further away
[15:01:31] <anonimasu> what you can do is manually push the valves(they usually have a dot) to make them act
[15:01:51] <ssi> it's a clipper valve
[15:02:02] <anonimasu> it shouldnt be overly heavy so you can see if something is stuck
[15:02:17] <Nick001-Shop> dicsoneect the hardige lines and add your own lines - use an airgun on the diffent lines to see if the turret reacts
[15:02:33] <anonimasu> manually running hte valves should work if there's pressure to them
[15:02:34] <ssi> it's not quite that simple I don't think
[15:02:59] <ssi> the clippard valve has eight holes in it, and it screws into an aluminum valve body
[15:03:00] <anonimasu> and if one feels stuck take it apart and clean
[15:03:19] <ssi> I don't know how to manually run the valve, other than trying to hit it with electricity
[15:03:19] <anonimasu> 2/2 way valves?
[15:03:33] <ssi> and I can't do that because I don't have the pin extractor for the stupid taper pin blocks, and I don't want to cut the wires if I can avoid it
[15:03:35] <anonimasu> there's a round dot on most valves on the side where you can press the slide
[15:03:40] <ssi> hm
[15:03:42] <ssi> I'll have to look
[15:03:59] <ssi> poor thing's been disassembled for two months because I dunno wtf to do with it
[15:04:45] <ssi> I think it's this one:
[15:04:46] <ssi> http://www.clippard.com/part/R-481-24
[15:04:51] <ssi> but I'm going from memory, I'm at work
[15:06:02] <anonimasu> dosent look like you can manually make it act.
[15:06:05] <ssi> might be the 482, which looks like the same thing only without the spring return?
[15:06:33] <anonimasu> looks like a stupid old valve :D
[15:06:45] <ssi> yeah, a stupid old valve in a stupid old machine :P
[15:07:52] <anonimasu> can you hear it click when actuating?
[15:08:07] <ssi> I don't know
[15:08:22] <ssi> I haven't been able to actuate it other than from the computer
[15:08:31] <ssi> and there's enough crap going on that I can't tell if the valve clicks or not
[15:08:45] <ssi> I wanted to pull the valve and try to cycle it on the bench, but I don't have the pin tools
[15:09:03] <ssi> I probably will break down and cut those wires
[15:09:24] * anonimasu nods
[15:09:36] <anonimasu> that's probably a smart move.
[15:09:46] <anonimasu> and if it's broken replace with a new model that you can actually service :p
[15:10:27] <ssi> I don't know how I'd replace it with anything but another of the exact same valve
[15:10:30] <anonimasu> tho it looks like the connector can be taken off..
[15:10:33] <ssi> since the valve body is custom machined for it
[15:10:42] <anonimasu> well, valve + valve body
[15:10:57] <ssi> again, I don't think that'd be feasible
[15:11:03] <ssi> I'd have to show you
[15:11:12] <ssi> I hate pneumatics :P
[15:11:47] <anonimasu> hehe, hydraulics are just the same
[15:12:25] <ssi> the valve block is a hunk of aluminum flatbar with a zillion holes drilled in it that screws up against parts of the machine and switches a dozen little air pathways
[15:12:32] <ssi> and that clippard valve is what switches its flows
[15:12:34] <ssi> it's complex as shit
[15:12:51] <anonimasu> it's a 4 way pilot valve
[15:13:16] <ssi> that doesn't mean much to me :'(
[15:13:25] <ssi> I have the pneumo schematics actually
[15:13:27] <anonimasu> it means you have 4 different air pathways inside
[15:13:32] <ssi> but I'm retarded with pneumatics
[15:13:40] <anonimasu> for the air to flow
[15:13:53] <anonimasu> http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/ap-en/products/fluid/pneumatic-valves-and-cylinders/pneumatic-valves/maxair-series/4-way-air-solenoid-and-pilot-valves
[15:14:12] <anonimasu> see the blocks in the drawing with arrows?
[15:14:29] <ssi> yea I know
[15:14:29] <ssi> http://www.clippard.com/downloads/PDF_Documents/Clippard%20Full%20Line%20Catalog/Clippard%20Catalog%20by%20Page%20Number/226-287%20Modular%20Valves/Page%20270.pdf
[15:14:31] <anonimasu> when actuated it goes one way when released the spring makes it shift the other way..
[15:14:32] <ssi> there's the actual valve
[15:14:35] <anonimasu> and you see where the air goes by that
[15:15:43] <ssi> and here:
[15:15:44] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BB93hDcCUAEyFFo.jpg:large
[15:15:47] <ssi> that's my machine's schematic
[15:16:28] <anonimasu> i'd check and clean the check valves
[15:16:44] <anonimasu> then look at the valves(if possible swap them around)
[15:17:16] <anonimasu> (only one and I guess that's the one you already checked)
[15:18:02] <ssi> there's another one that's involved with the turret cushion, another thing I don't really understand
[15:18:09] <ssi> but I haven't taken any of that apart, and frankly I'm scared to :P
[15:18:23] <ssi> I had the actual turret off the machine once and holy shit that is scary
[15:18:24] <ssi> :D
[15:18:38] <Nick001-Shop> does the turret rise at all?
[15:18:42] <anonimasu> hehe, I know I repaired my duplomatic one a million times -_-
[15:18:47] <anonimasu> they have a awful design.
[15:18:59] <anonimasu> switches cams and lock pins and solenoids..
[15:19:26] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: I think now it doesn't
[15:19:30] <anonimasu> I had to re-seal everything because it took coolant into the turret switch.
[15:19:35] <anonimasu> (encoder)
[15:19:43] <ssi> last I checked, when I aired the system, it sounded like a major air leak
[15:19:56] <ssi> and if I gave a toolchange command, it'd switch to a slightly less major air leak for a second, and nothing would move
[15:20:02] <anonimasu> that's a good sign
[15:20:07] <ssi> is it? :P
[15:20:19] <anonimasu> that means you can actually find something wrong instead of dissassembling every valve..
[15:20:30] <anonimasu> feel where the airlines go and try to feel if it blows
[15:20:38] <ssi> how much beer would it take to get one of you to just come over? :D
[15:20:48] <anonimasu> it'd take a airplane.
[15:20:53] <ssi> well you're in luck
[15:20:55] <ssi> I have one of those
[15:21:08] <ssi> actually I have two of those, but one's not flying yet
[15:21:15] <anonimasu> im in north sweden.. pretty much in the forest
[15:21:17] <Nick001-Shop> and a lot of gas -)
[15:21:20] <ssi> shit that'd be a long flight
[15:21:35] <anonimasu> i think like 17 hours
[15:21:40] <ssi> haha not in my airplane
[15:21:42] <anonimasu> on a boeing
[15:21:42] <ssi> it'd take a week
[15:22:45] <anonimasu> I hate old machinery.
[15:22:57] <ssi> yeah, me too
[15:22:59] <ssi> wtf was I thinking :P
[15:23:12] <anonimasu> my old lathe has been pretty much dissassembled into microns before even making parts
[15:23:34] <anonimasu> but now it does 12 hours of continous cutting without messing
[15:23:52] <ssi> my hardinge works pretty well... or at least it did before the turret quit
[15:24:07] <anonimasu> and I know enough to fix it if it breaks
[15:24:23] <anonimasu> I dont know how I made decent parts without a cnc lathe.(proper one)
[15:26:54] <anonimasu> now I have to actually give tolerance to fit things togther then aiming for nominal size and hoi
[15:27:10] <anonimasu> hoping it'll go togther because of measuring errors and tool deflection :D
[15:27:38] <ssi> haha yeah
[15:27:52] <ssi> I've been very impressed with the precision of the hardinge
[15:28:07] <ssi> it's a nice machine, it's just old and cranky
[15:28:15] <anonimasu> I cut a part and forgot to add 0.07mm for the fit, it went to 70.00+/-0.00
[15:28:41] <anonimasu> (usually it's the other way around)
[15:29:12] <anonimasu> i like it when you ask someone how tight they want things and they say "DEAD ON!"
[15:29:41] <ssi> yep
[15:29:52] <anonimasu> for one off stuff(it's funny when they realize you told them that you want to give a bit of space so things will go togther and they were arguing not to)
[15:30:27] <mrsun> oh more swedish people
[15:30:35] <ssi> I have a part that I make for a guy, and the design calls for a 2" OD with a fine surface finish
[15:30:36] <anonimasu> yep :)
[15:30:43] <ssi> and the OD doesn't matter, because it doesn't fit anything else
[15:30:49] <ssi> he's more concerned about the look of it
[15:31:03] <ssi> and it was a battle to convince him to let me turn it to 1.95"
[15:31:06] <anonimasu> we made some shafts that would stick in the bearings we made them for because of dust it was pretty cool
[15:31:16] <ssi> because I'd need to start with 2.25" stock to get a 2.00" turned finish
[15:31:20] <ssi> and it's wasteful as hell
[15:31:42] <Connor> ssi ROFL
[15:32:00] <Connor> Should have just done it and not told him.
[15:32:05] <ssi> yeah seriously :P
[15:32:15] <anonimasu> engineers... -_-
[15:32:33] <ssi> he sent me another design that's sorta hat shaped, and it has this thin brim that's almost 4" diameter
[15:32:38] <ssi> and the 4" stock alone just costs a fortune
[15:32:41] <ssi> and he didn't like my price
[15:32:58] <Connor> What are these parts for ?
[15:33:00] <ssi> he found some shop in mexico that made them for less than I could buy the metal
[15:33:05] <ssi> subframe bushings for cars
[15:33:15] <mrsun> weld on a ring? :P
[15:33:19] <ssi> apparently the shop he used had drop that worked for the part
[15:33:28] <anonimasu> tell me about it . I have 450eur steel shaft 1/2 meter of it..
[15:34:01] <anonimasu> 130mm bar of ss2225 or 2541 cant remember now
[15:34:03] <Connor> Weld flat stock on to the part and turn it down..
[15:34:09] <mrsun> anonimasu, so he had this bar of steel ... and ... :P
[15:34:28] <anonimasu> just stupid expensive
[15:34:32] <Tom_itx> Connor, that would change the metalurgy
[15:34:40] <anonimasu> and 30mm on dia will go to chips of it..
[15:34:53] <Tom_itx> it would need heat treat afterward
[15:34:55] <mrsun> mmm chips
[15:35:08] <Tom_itx> cheaper to get oversize stock
[15:35:24] <anonimasu> yep and it'll atually turn out good :)
[15:35:35] <ssi> tom: agreed
[15:35:41] <ssi> it was even cheaper for me just to not screw with it
[15:35:47] <anonimasu> welding things togther never goes quite good either
[15:35:47] <ssi> he wanted to pay next to nothing for these parts
[15:35:53] <mrsun> glue on a piece of stock on it then!
[15:35:54] <ssi> and they're car suspension parts... no thanks :P
[15:36:00] <mrsun> superglue can lift a car ;)
[15:36:05] <Tom_itx> yeah tell him to send it out to china for bid
[15:36:07] <ssi> I think he ended up paying like $17 per pair for them
[15:36:33] <ssi> and the raw material would have been 4" dia round bar 6061T6, about 4" each
[15:36:37] <ssi> that shit's not cheap
[15:36:43] <mrsun> people think that machine work and material is so cheap
[15:36:46] <anonimasu> if I build suspension parts for someone i'd be damn sure to call out for a material spec.
[15:36:48] <Tom_itx> i can get that surplus
[15:36:57] <Tom_itx> probably up to 24" diameter
[15:37:07] <mrsun> if they come with a special thing that need to be made they cant expect it to cost like something that is churned out in the millions :P
[15:38:10] <anonimasu> mrsun: true that, I manual turn one off stuff without critical dimensions because it's easier to justify working 1 hour then setting up the lathe for 20 minutes and making a part in 5
[15:38:50] <anonimasu> or maybe 40 minutes of setup and programming/swapping chuck jaws..
[15:43:05] <Connor> would you consider a Solid State Relay a fail safe device? I need to put a relay of some sort on my AC side of my spindle. I was using a normal relay, but, the one I have isn't rated enough for the new motor and driver.
[15:43:53] <mrsun> more sensetive to spikes etc from induktors i guess ?
[15:44:13] <anonimasu> mhm, there are safety relays for that kind of stuff
[15:44:29] <PCW> Nick001-Shop: ssi resolvers were 1 --> 2ratio so need the 7I49-hv I dont know if all HNC resolvers are or not
[15:46:23] <anonimasu> Connor: carefully examine your vfd manual and see what it says about estop
[15:46:59] <anonimasu> Connor: how safe do you need it ot be?
[15:47:09] <Connor> anonimasu: using a KBCC SCR driver.
[15:47:30] <Nick001-Shop> PCW-my resolvers are 1/2 ratio also-same for CHNC 's that I have.
[15:47:31] <frallzor> well fuck me in a barrel, first time I install linuxCNC and fix everything myself!
[15:47:55] <Nick001-Shop> were they the only 2 cards that were used?
[15:48:02] <frallzor> even got the gamepad-pendant to seem to work, cant test until machine hooked up though, but it didnt crash !
[15:48:17] <PCW> So need 7I49-hv
[15:49:18] <ReadError> hey ssi
[15:49:23] <ReadError> you are in atlanta right?
[15:49:53] <ssi> yea
[15:49:56] <Nick001-Shop> PCW- can I fit a 2 servo driver with these cards? I want to take out the 2 axis amps to get rid of the tachs
[15:52:20] <ssi> ReadError: NW atlanta, Kennesaw actually
[15:53:32] <PCW> the 7I49 has 6 resolver inputs and 6 +- 10V analog outputs dont know what your drives require...
[15:53:47] <ReadError> ssi: do you drive up 75?
[15:53:52] <ssi> every damn day
[15:53:52] <ReadError> omg it was miserable yesterday
[15:54:00] <ssi> yeah, actually I didn't yesterday :D
[15:54:06] <ssi> I saw Lake Moore's Mill and decided to do backroads
[15:54:13] <ReadError> yea man i was like, you know i should stay home today heh
[15:54:21] <ReadError> but i hadnt been to the office for 2.5 weeks
[15:54:29] <ReadError> figured i should show everyone im still alive
[15:54:33] <ReadError> horrible mistake ;(
[15:57:53] <ssi> yeah you picked the wrong day for sure :D
[15:58:11] <ssi> my gf works in kennesaw, and she was huddled in a closet with all her coworkers for an hour
[15:58:21] <ReadError> im downtown
[15:58:28] <ReadError> i thought the windows where going to blow out
[15:58:36] <ReadError> you could see them going in and out
[15:59:03] <ssi> yea I'm in midtown, but I don't sit close enough to a window to see anything cool :)
[15:59:27] <ReadError> know anyone selling any bridgeports in town? :o
[15:59:51] <ReadError> i check craigslist, seem to come up very rarely
[16:01:51] <Nick001-Shop> PCW> the 2 servos take 107vdc and final output has a 4.5 amp fuse with 2 resolvers and 1 resolver for the spindle. I only need 1 +-10v to control the spindle HiAk driver
[16:03:24] <PCW> are your drives OK?
[16:05:04] <Nick001-Shop> OK for now - just want to replace the 2 axis amps with something newer and without the tachs.
[16:06:08] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:06:35] <Nick001-Shop> The Aleen Bradley contols have reached the end of the line. The boards are blowing compents faster than I can find and replace them
[16:06:45] <Nick001-Shop> Allen
[16:07:42] <Nick001-Shop> components - fingers are getting cold
[16:13:25] <ssi> ReadError: not that I know of... I got lucky getting mine
[16:19:44] <Valen> !seen andypugh
[16:19:44] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-01-27 23:07:12GMT 94:59:43 ago, saying Quit: andypugh
[16:29:15] <Nick001-Shop> ssi> Here's the pin removal tool you need http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amp-Tyco-91012-2-Contact-Terminal-Removal-Tool-Taper-Pin-Extractor-/140904870375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ce95b1e7
[17:10:07] <JT-Shop> frallzor: yep
[17:20:34] <ssi> Nick001-Shop: yeah, that's what I need alright
[17:20:38] <ssi> freakin expensive though
[17:20:42] <ssi> I've found them as cheap as $110
[17:28:13] <frallzor> JT-Shop never mind! =P
[17:28:29] <frallzor> or no
[17:28:42] <frallzor> did I get a nice gamepad-setup from you a whiiiile ago?
[17:31:59] <JT-Shop> I did one and put it on the wiki
[17:32:32] <JT-Shop> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[17:32:54] <frallzor> i see, the one I followed
[17:33:03] <frallzor> no error when trying in-doors =)
[17:33:10] <frallzor> will be fun to see tomorrow
[17:33:38] <frallzor> got my act together and updated to latest live-cd edition
[17:33:47] <frallzor> just got all settings done
[17:33:53] <JT-Shop> cool
[17:34:08] <frallzor> even managed to fix the touchscreen
[17:34:33] <JT-Shop> what was wrong?
[17:36:17] <frallzor> lack of skills in linux before
[17:36:27] <frallzor> but was alot smoother to fix in 10.04
[17:36:30] <frallzor> than in 8.04
[17:38:16] <frallzor> will be fun to see how much that actually works of what Ive fixed today =P
[17:43:16] <Valen> anybody have any pointers on working out the inertia of a screw + load system
[17:43:25] <Valen> helpful websites etc
[17:45:03] <jdh> http://www.smallmotors.com/html/lead_screws.html
[18:03:35] <Nick001-Shop> can a differential encoder be hooked up to linuxcnc directly or only as single ended?
[18:14:23] <JT-Shop> directly?
[18:21:39] <jdh> it can be hooked up directly to a differential input
[18:25:46] <Nick001-Shop> I only find 3 connection in hal A,B,I - is there hall pins for A/,B/,I/ and what is a differential input?
[18:27:31] <jdh> I have a mesa 7i47 for encoder input, it has differential inputs for each channel
[18:29:16] <cradek> differential is a matter of the physical wiring, nothing else
[18:29:27] <cradek> it's a way to make the wiring more immune to noise
[18:29:55] <cradek> so past the encoder signal-receiving hardware, nothing knows or cares about differential
[18:30:18] <Nick001-Shop> I was looking for a way to hook it up directly to the computer without extra cards
[18:30:42] <jdh> depending on the encoder, you might be able to use it single-ended
[18:31:18] <cradek> yes, but if you're thinking parport or similar inputs, understand that you can only read those so fast, and figure out if it's good enough before you worry about wiring
[18:31:50] <Nick001-Shop> the encoders I have already working all have differential to single end converters and I would like to eliminate them
[18:32:04] <cradek> why?
[18:32:22] <cradek> they give you the benefit of noise immunity
[18:33:06] <Nick001-Shop> I'm trying out some steppers and they shouldn't be going that fast and the glass scales have shielded cables
[18:34:22] <Nick001-Shop> just trying to see what will work or not
[18:34:54] <jdh> you could ignore the encoders for steppers.
[18:35:43] <Valen> linear scales are going to give him better positioning than open loop
[18:35:58] <Valen> that whole velocity mode stepgen or whatever it is
[18:36:01] <Nick001-Shop> would like a closed loop for better control - also would like solid tapping if it will work with steppers
[18:36:02] <cradek> sort of. pid with steppers doesn't really work very well in practice.
[18:36:35] <cradek> glass scales with steppers are especially not the way to eliminate backlash
[18:36:43] <Valen> no that it wont do
[18:37:15] <Valen> whats bad with the velocity stepgen? I was thinking of doing it with some brushless drivers we are looking at for the new mill
[18:37:16] <Nick001-Shop> backlash no problem - have ballscrews
[18:37:17] <Valen> dmm-tech
[18:37:31] <Valen> ballscrews still have backlash unless you take it out
[18:37:46] <Valen> (anti-backlash nuts won't do it by themselves)
[18:37:47] <cradek> steppers lose power as they go faster. pid expects to be able to push harder/go faster to catch up.
[18:38:08] <Valen> so it'd be ok with what I was thinking then?
[18:38:16] <Valen> (not being steppers)
[18:38:28] <Valen> i just wanted to avoid the +-10v section, analog bugs me
[18:38:32] <cradek> sorry, I don't follow you
[18:38:41] <jdh> you want a step/dir servo?
[18:38:43] <cradek> oh you mean step-servo drives?
[18:38:53] <skunkworks> good ball screws don't have backlash
[18:38:53] <cradek> those are the worst of every world
[18:39:31] <Valen> so you say +-10v interface is better than step dir
[18:39:39] <skunkworks> yes!!!!!!!!!
[18:39:40] <jdh> I'd pick +/-10 servos with differential encoders and maybe glass scales too
[18:39:41] <Valen> what mode would be best to run the servo amps in
[18:39:43] <cradek> oh yeah
[18:39:49] <cradek> velocity
[18:40:04] <Valen> I was going to feed the encoder back into EMC btw
[18:40:11] <cradek> of course
[18:40:20] <cradek> also to the amp, if the amp needs it for velocity feedback
[18:40:32] <Valen> yeah, its brushless
[18:40:36] <Valen> so it needs it for commutation
[18:41:03] <Valen> My other option is to ditch their amps and go 8I29s
[18:41:18] <Valen> but I'm wary of the amount of mucking about that would be needed to get it working
[18:41:22] <cradek> you already have working brushless amps that are matched to the motors?
[18:41:33] <Valen> have nothing yet
[18:41:40] <Valen> its for a new setup
[18:41:41] <cradek> ah
[18:42:00] <Valen> but i can buy motor + amp combo (750W for $550)
[18:42:18] <Valen> the 8i29 works out a little cheaper and is digital all the way
[18:42:34] <cradek> I don't have the experience to say what is best for you
[18:42:42] <Valen> me either lol
[18:43:01] <cradek> I have always worked with retrofits: machine+motors+amps already matched
[18:43:14] <Valen> Its going to be a high acceleration machine so i'm a little concerned with the frequency of the servo loop
[18:43:32] <cradek> how high?
[18:44:38] <Valen> don't know yet
[18:44:43] <Valen> but hopefully lots lol
[18:44:55] <Valen> a pair of 750W drives on a gantry of ~50kg
[18:45:24] <Valen> Z is looking like 750W drive with a weight of 10kg or so
[18:46:08] <Valen> andypugh really wants somebody to try the dmmtech stuff
[18:46:34] <Valen> though he is also playing with the 8i20 a lot so i was hoping he would be on here
[18:50:54] <ReadError> anyone here used a SuperPID?
[19:11:26] <r00t4rd3d> i smoked some once
[19:12:15] <r00t4rd3d> eww new big bang theory on
[19:15:50] <mutilator> hey r00t4rd3d you alive
[19:16:00] <Valen> i was never into bbt, but the missus liked it so I recently legally aquired all the previous seasons and watched all the eps back to back
[19:16:03] <Valen> was actually good
[19:22:18] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[19:27:24] <r00t4rd3d> mutilator, kinda, whats up
[19:47:26] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[19:47:29] <ReadError> what collets you use
[20:06:05] <r00t4rd3d> the stock one
[20:06:23] <r00t4rd3d> i have a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer also
[20:07:32] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bushing_ball_bearings.html
[20:08:40] <r00t4rd3d> i only use 1/4 and 1/8 shank bits so I dont need anything special
[20:13:16] <r00t4rd3d> trying to get away from 1/8 shank stuff all together.
[20:18:02] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d
[20:18:07] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[20:18:08] <ReadError> was waiting to hear back from ebay guy
[20:18:13] <ReadError> about that 80mm spindle
[20:18:17] <ReadError> with VFD
[20:18:33] <r00t4rd3d> i have no idea what you are talking about
[20:19:57] <r00t4rd3d> i must have missed the link
[20:21:11] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[20:21:13] <r00t4rd3d> http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=182
[20:21:14] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[20:27:12] <ReadError> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230715508514
[20:27:15] <ReadError> that
[20:27:50] <r00t4rd3d> overkill
[20:28:00] <ReadError> for a 24x48" router?
[20:28:35] <ReadError> It can work 24 hours one day in very bad environment.
[20:28:38] <ReadError> lol
[20:28:45] <r00t4rd3d> er11
[20:29:00] <r00t4rd3d> 1/8 bits max
[20:29:09] <r00t4rd3d> unless you change it
[20:29:26] <ReadError> has 6mm collet
[20:29:33] <ReadError> thats like 1/4"
[20:30:02] <r00t4rd3d> almost 1/4
[20:30:04] <ReadError> its either that, or im going with a hitachi + SuperPID
[20:30:18] <r00t4rd3d> what are you planning on cutting
[20:30:27] <ReadError> g10/cf/some aluminum
[20:30:35] <r00t4rd3d> is that plastic?
[20:30:40] <ReadError> fiberglass-ish
[20:30:46] <ReadError> maybe some wood
[20:31:00] <r00t4rd3d> just get a dewalt 611
[20:31:14] <r00t4rd3d> with a k2 mount
[20:31:50] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DNP611-Compact-Replacement-Variable/dp/B0054LXWKA/ref=sr_1_11?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359685120&sr=1-11&keywords=dewalt+611
[20:31:52] <ReadError> niice
[20:32:18] <r00t4rd3d> i got mine for 79 on sale :D
[20:32:27] <r00t4rd3d> the whole thing , dwp611
[20:32:33] <ReadError> hows the runout?
[20:32:39] <ReadError> im going to be using 1/8"
[20:32:46] <ReadError> i actually got an email about this out of the blue...
[20:32:54] <r00t4rd3d> never checked
[20:32:58] <r00t4rd3d> my cuts look good
[20:33:07] <ReadError> "The Dewalt 611 collets are in stock!"
[20:33:14] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[20:33:37] <ReadError> http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/dewalt_611_collets_nuts.asp#Dewalt_611_Collets
[20:33:43] <r00t4rd3d> if my z axis was stronger, I could cut alum no problem
[20:34:16] <r00t4rd3d> ive cut tons of oak though and that shits pretty hard
[20:34:24] <r00t4rd3d> purpleheart too
[20:34:34] <ReadError> Deluxe Dewalt 611 Collet Kit (contains 1/8in. , 3/16in. & 1/4in. PG collets, collet nut, TalonĀ© spanner wrench, calibration blank and 118 ml of ColletCare)
[20:34:35] <ReadError> 99$
[20:35:03] <r00t4rd3d> wow that is cool
[20:35:47] <r00t4rd3d> Ill be getting that bitch
[20:36:32] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: maybe if your gantry supports werent wood you could do better too
[20:36:54] <r00t4rd3d> no i only have 8mm rods on my z axis, which is about to change
[20:37:13] <ReadError> getting the cncrouterparts one
[20:37:19] <ReadError> i hope this rack and pinion works out
[20:37:19] <r00t4rd3d> flexes too much if i try to cut alum
[20:37:41] <ReadError> says repeatability is 0.002 which is acceptable for what im doing
[20:37:46] <r00t4rd3d> i got my parts coming for an upgrade though
[20:37:48] <tjb1> Getting what ReadError ?
[20:38:04] <ReadError> Repeatability to +/-0.002" or better, accuracy to +/-0.005" or better
[20:38:11] <r00t4rd3d> i want cnc gantry riser set
[20:38:11] <ReadError> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/crp2448-2-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-164.html
[20:38:51] <tjb1> That kit doesnt include extrusion does it
[20:38:56] <tjb1> oh it does
[20:39:25] <r00t4rd3d> that would be a nice machine
[20:42:13] <r00t4rd3d> if i was gonna spend that i would get the 34's for 150 extra too
[20:43:32] <tjb1> why
[20:43:37] <tjb1> isnt that r&p drive?
[20:44:45] <r00t4rd3d> why not, it will go faster
[20:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> - Nema 23 version: Rapids up to 600 IPM+, cutting feedrates 200 IPM+*
[20:44:57] <r00t4rd3d> - Nema 34 version: Rapids up to 1000 IPM+, cutting feedrates 400 IPM+*
[20:44:58] <tjb1> How fast do you need it to go
[20:45:14] <tjb1> Plasma = cutting feed rates up to 600 IPM :P
[20:45:35] <r00t4rd3d> w/ sloppy cuts unless you have an 8million dollar plasma cutter
[20:46:14] <ReadError> yea
[20:46:23] <ReadError> that kit is everything minus electronics/router/mount
[20:46:36] <ReadError> i could source everything and save some money
[20:46:39] <r00t4rd3d> email them
[20:46:42] <ReadError> but this is known to work and stuff
[20:46:47] <ReadError> email em what?
[20:46:50] <r00t4rd3d> tell them you want a deal
[20:46:54] <tjb1> lol
[20:46:56] <r00t4rd3d> i do it
[20:47:01] <ReadError> lol
[20:47:03] <tjb1> You aren't gonna get much on a kit I doubt
[20:47:07] <r00t4rd3d> everytime i order i get something free from him :D
[20:47:07] <tjb1> I got deals on bolts from him
[20:47:11] <ReadError> "I want a deal"
[20:47:23] <ReadError> what did you get free so far r00t4rd3d?
[20:47:31] <tjb1> "hope"
[20:47:36] <r00t4rd3d> gears and belts :D
[20:47:43] <r00t4rd3d> used em too
[20:47:46] <tjb1> How much have you spent there?
[20:47:46] <ReadError> what did you order?
[20:48:17] <tjb1> We confused him
[20:48:23] <r00t4rd3d> me?
[20:48:29] <tjb1> No, godzilla
[20:49:02] <ReadError> you just hit people up asking for deals?
[20:49:04] <ReadError> lol
[20:49:19] <r00t4rd3d> so far ive gotten 2 sets of linear carriages and some gears for my motors and screws
[20:49:33] <tjb1> He was selling me M8x23 t-studs with nuts for $.30 each and 5/16-18 t-nuts for $.20 each
[20:49:56] <r00t4rd3d> on the notes in check i write stuff
[20:50:02] <r00t4rd3d> check out*
[20:50:04] <tjb1> He gave me 110 t-studs for free lol
[20:50:08] <ReadError> write jokes?
[20:50:35] <tjb1> I guess I got $36 free stuff first order
[20:50:50] <ReadError> will the gecko drive the 34's?
[20:51:04] <tjb1> I dont think
[20:51:05] <r00t4rd3d> im sure
[20:51:11] <r00t4rd3d> the 540?
[20:51:13] <tjb1> its only 3.5 amp
[20:51:19] <ReadError> yea 540
[20:51:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gecko-G540-Parallel-Port-Stepper-Driver-Kit-w-BobcadV21-/111003758437?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d856ef65
[20:52:19] <tjb1> Gecko says NEMA 17-34 so I guess
[20:52:32] <tjb1> You can only do 3.5A per axis though
[20:52:35] <Tom_itx> ReadError, 203v is good for 7A
[20:52:42] <Tom_itx> 80v
[20:52:52] <tjb1> http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives.html
[20:53:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA34G540Package.html
[20:53:09] <tjb1> So is the G201x
[20:53:10] <r00t4rd3d> they selling them in kits
[20:56:55] <ReadError> crap basement computer disconnected
[20:56:56] <ReadError> so im confused
[20:56:58] <ReadError> you just hit him up and are like hey can i get a deal?
[20:57:01] <ReadError> and he hooks stuff up?
[20:57:29] <ReadError> he seems to respond really fast to emails
[20:57:32] <ReadError> when i hit him up about lead time
[21:28:47] <ReadError> oh yea r00t4rd3d
[21:28:51] <ReadError> you make your own tslots
[21:28:54] <ReadError> using that aluminum stuff
[21:29:03] <r00t4rd3d> i have a tslot bit
[21:29:08] <r00t4rd3d> for wood
[21:29:23] <ReadError> works pretty good?
[21:29:29] <r00t4rd3d> havent used it yet
[21:29:30] <ReadError> im going to use MDF and tslot it
[21:29:38] <ReadError> so i can toss it when it gets crappy
[21:29:50] <r00t4rd3d> thats what i plan on
[21:30:09] <r00t4rd3d> probably not mdf though
[21:30:44] <ReadError> heavy ply?
[21:30:53] <r00t4rd3d> laminated plywood would be better if i cut tslots into it
[21:31:05] <r00t4rd3d> stronger
[21:31:19] <ReadError> i see they have some aluminum track that you can route out a channel
[21:31:21] <ReadError> and it screws it
[21:31:23] <ReadError> in*
[21:31:24] <tjb1> It would be better to use t-slots :P
[21:31:49] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[21:32:24] <r00t4rd3d> those are all cool till you run into one.
[21:33:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_keyhl.html
[21:33:29] <r00t4rd3d> on the bottom is what i got
[21:33:44] <r00t4rd3d> 6334
[21:35:39] <ReadError> nice
[21:35:46] <ReadError> i can clamp down some 2x4s
[21:35:51] <ReadError> and make a guide for my router
[21:36:03] <ReadError> otherwise it would be everything but straight
[22:03:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=88d_1359684097
[22:04:35] <ReadError> did you see the mallcop videos r00t4rd3d ?
[22:04:39] <ReadError> dudes a straight bad ass
[22:04:44] <ReadError> hes probably going to get shot tho
[22:05:34] <r00t4rd3d> the syrians got some new weapons
[22:05:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cdb_1359685131
[22:48:59] <tjtr33> http://my-wordpress.ru/lesson/visual-db/ dang, i need to learn Russian
[23:17:24] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/gS83XuC.jpg