#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-12-18

[00:05:08] <r00t4rd3d> iphone lol
[00:10:16] <r00t4rd3d> I laid down a 5pm to take a couple hour nap......
[00:10:26] <r00t4rd3d> 12:30am later....
[00:10:57] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d:
[00:11:00] <tjb1> Rooting is horrible
[00:11:13] <r00t4rd3d> for newbs
[00:11:21] <tjb1> >:(
[00:35:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G_UmhUjZhNo#!
[00:52:17] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:50:55] <archivist> abetusk, the drives fail if treated badly, the motors hardly ever
[01:52:01] <abetusk> archivist, I've killed a few drivers, so I know they're sensitive, comparatively, but I believe the motor died and I was curious as to how it happened. Mostly so I don't ruin another.
[01:53:02] <archivist> have you swapped drivers over to prove which has failed?
[01:57:58] <abetusk> yes
[02:00:06] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:00:25] <archivist> first thing I would check is the wiring as that fails a lot more often than a motor does
[02:00:55] <abetusk> yeah, thanks. Had I thought of it, I would have measured that already, but that's going to be one of the things I do when I'm next around it
[02:01:21] <archivist> A motor is exceedingly hard to kill
[02:01:33] <abetusk> I figured, yet here I am
[02:02:32] <archivist> have you felt its shaft (rotating it) does it feel the same as another
[02:02:52] <archivist> over current can demagnetise
[02:03:00] <abetusk> I haven't. It's still attached to the axis
[02:04:04] <archivist> is the wiring flexing to that motor
[02:05:37] <abetusk> I've had a motor fail that way, where the wiring frayed where it went into the motor
[02:05:44] <abetusk> I didn't notice it on this one, though
[02:05:50] <abetusk> But then again, I didn't look that hard
[02:08:17] <archivist> I think in here the only steppers that have failed were ones on a high current and old style magnets (like old bridgeports)
[02:09:03] <archivist> and I have been lurking in here for about 5 years
[02:10:00] <abetusk> interesting. I'll check to see if the wires going into it have frayed at all
[02:12:40] <DJ9DJ> re
[02:12:45] <archivist> loads of people have killed the chinese drives with tb6660 as they are sensitive to abuse
[02:12:53] <archivist> tb6560
[04:52:37] <las^se> Hi, is there a tutorial or guide on how to setup a 4-axis hot wire cutter with arduino and linuxcnc?
[04:56:30] <archivist> a number of hot wire machines have been made, not sure of any need for arduino
[04:57:23] <las^se> I have arduino, but may go another route? BOB and easy-drivers?
[04:57:38] <las^se> and software control via LPT..
[04:59:09] <archivist> parallel port control of steppers is common
[05:05:31] <archivist> because linuxcnc is so configurable I am not sure what your question really needs
[05:05:49] <las^se> I'm not sure myself..
[05:05:50] <las^se> heh
[05:06:48] <las^se> I want to make something similar to this: http://www.foamlinx.com/images/Foamlinx_CNC_hot_wire_foam_cutter_2913_29_inchx13_inch.jpg
[05:11:28] <archivist> you may want something similar to what this guy did http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMo19ivradQ
[08:11:15] <las^se> archivist: EMC2Hotwinch in hotwire/linear mode is the way to go, I think. So a 20$ BOB with LPT port between my stepper drivers and PC is enough? Are there other hardware that is required by LinuxCNC?
[08:11:48] <Annie2> hi anyone familiar with arm assember code?
[08:14:33] <archivist> las^se, probably
[08:15:11] <archivist> Annie2, 10 years ago, you are probably better asking in ##asm
[08:15:39] <archivist> or more like 15 years
[08:16:03] <Annie2> :)
[08:16:53] <Annie2> just curious, is there a tool which can translate x86-64 assembler code for ARM architecture?
[08:19:11] <Annie2> i have converted zlib for windows-store runtime. for x86, and x64, the conversion went smoothly..
[08:19:19] <Annie2> but in case of ARM, i had to fall back to C code for two performance-savvy functions (longest_match() and inflate_fast() in inffasx64.asm and gvmat64.asm files under contrib\masmx64 folder)..
[08:19:48] <Annie2> i thought if i could transcode those two assembly files, i could achieve the same level of performance for ARM as well
[08:23:25] <archivist> I would do it by hand as the two are so dissimilar
[08:27:36] <Annie2> yeah. would be fun if Intel would have intvented ARM in first place.. there would be some nativity in instruction-set in those two archis
[08:28:53] <Annie2> its almost 400 lines in one file and 550 in other (including comments).. you wana give it a try? LoL :D
[08:34:51] <archivist> luckily I am an ARM free zone these days
[08:37:21] <jdh> makes it hard to type?
[08:38:13] <archivist> my last job was a printer driver for Acorns Risc PC
[08:39:28] <archivist> acorns own C failed when a switch statement needed to branch more than the ARM chip could at the time
[08:43:16] * skunkworks wonders what is going on
[08:43:20] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[08:43:20] <logger[psha]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-12-18.html
[09:02:06] <Annie2> lol, freem from ARM SoC! they are all around you.. atleast one in everyone's pocket these days. :)
[10:15:57] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[10:19:31] <JT-Shop> hi
[10:20:00] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: did you got notice from bruce
[10:20:28] <JT-Shop> no
[10:21:07] <IchGuckLive> ok
[10:21:31] <JT-Shop> did he email me?
[10:21:55] <JT-Shop> last email was 12/15
[10:30:11] <IchGuckLive> i do not know he woudt likee to know somthing about toarch kontrol of the Hypertherm 105
[10:55:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ggandco.com/microtech-usa-solid-titanium-3-edge-twist-jagdkommando-knife/
[10:58:01] <r00t4rd3d> that will moisten the vagina
[10:59:38] <Jymmm> But you'll need viagra @ $1400
[11:01:30] <r00t4rd3d> Your Price:
[11:01:30] <r00t4rd3d> $999.99
[11:01:49] <Jymmm> still need viagra
[11:01:49] <r00t4rd3d> a steel!
[11:02:18] <Jymmm> no, ti
[12:21:27] <IchGuckLive> heavy posting today ! Xmas is comming soon
[12:48:03] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[13:14:53] <IchGuckLive> one houre no post B) O.O
[13:27:25] <IchGuckLive> by im off
[13:52:30] <gene77> Hey guys, I've got a handle on this %$#@ controller!
[14:08:02] <gene77> Andy?
[14:17:37] <L84Supper> http://www.sainsmart.com/new-cnc-router-single-axis-3a-tb6560-stepper-motor-drivers-board-for-axiscontrol.html awful stepper drivers
[14:19:02] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: what can onne do to make the TB6560 chips awful?
[14:19:08] <Loetmichel> with the board design?
[14:19:17] <L84Supper> bad board design
[14:19:28] <L84Supper> I think they sent me an earlier rev
[14:19:32] <Loetmichel> i mean: the chips are not really high quality, but awful is another thing
[14:20:04] <L84Supper> poor quality optos as well
[14:20:16] <Loetmichel> optos are overrated
[14:20:48] <Loetmichel> and completly unneccessary if the board designer had connected all grounds regardingless ;-)
[14:20:57] <Loetmichel> (like on mine 4 channel board)
[14:20:59] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[14:21:23] <L84Supper> heh, I think it's the same on this board :)
[14:22:00] <L84Supper> I haven't taken it apart yet
[14:22:32] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-4030-24-40vdc-3-0a-microstepping-driver behaves much better
[14:22:53] <L84Supper> I haven't pulled the cover to see what they did in here
[14:24:11] <L84Supper> what's the point of isolation if there is no isolation?
[14:24:23] <Loetmichel> right
[14:24:33] <Loetmichel> hmm, maybe overvoltage protection?
[14:25:27] <L84Supper> there is an instructables schematic floating around for the board
[14:25:55] <L84Supper> http://www.instructables.com/file/F94X50TGSUSNA34
[14:26:31] <L84Supper> maybe they are all copying this *brilliant* design?
[14:27:02] <gene77> Being a tech, I did some googling, and that board is universally considered to be excrement
[14:27:03] <L84Supper> 330 ohm isolation :)
[14:28:08] <L84Supper> they should have kept the grounds separate and just added one more pin to the connector, and wallah isolation
[14:28:09] <gene77> Is anyone here using one of Arturo's C41 boards to control an FC250J in the mini-lathe?
[14:29:25] <gene77> I just found the secret forsomething resembling linear response, put a 10k resistor between its analog output and what would have been the pot arm on the FC25J
[14:30:23] <gene77> The darned thing is more current driven that voltage driven.
[14:30:30] <gene77> The darned thing is more current driven than voltage driven.
[15:09:00] <gene77> Question: Mult2, when fed the same input at both ins, follows the laws of math and does an automatic abs?
[15:24:03] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: never again...
[15:59:40] <r00t4rd3d> what you do now?
[16:00:18] <tjb1> AOKP failed, tried CleanROM which the phone then said I was running a software not authorized by Verizon, then spent another hour trying to get back to stock
[16:05:48] <andypugh> gene77: As far as I know, no automatic abs
[16:06:16] <andypugh> Ah, sorry, I see what you are saying.
[16:06:27] <andypugh> Well, it will actualy give you the square.
[16:06:40] <andypugh> If you want abs, use the abs component
[16:17:35] <r00t4rd3d> tjb1, soon you will understand why most Android users stick with the stock firmware and just root.
[16:19:19] <gene77> THen 2 - values s/b a minus out?
[16:19:53] <andypugh> No, -2 x -2 = 4
[16:20:11] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:21:44] <gene77> Thats what I thought. I just put it back together before I drop a wrench on hot circuit & am headed in to find us a couple of nose bags, thanks
[16:22:31] <andypugh> Do you want a linearisatin curve component?
[16:24:22] <gene77> but that note about a 10k in series with the c41 outout when driving an FC250J in a mini-lathe ought to find its way into the wiki, that helps several buckets worth in gettiung a linear response from the FC250J
[16:24:52] <gene77> That POS is obviously current driven!
[16:26:16] <gene77> I'm outta here for the night, everything but my fuse is working.
[16:36:32] <r00t4rd3d> I normally blow a fuse or two also.
[18:01:21] <JT-Shop> plasma modifications done :)
[18:07:27] <andypugh> I seem to have achieved nothing this evening.
[18:07:50] <andypugh> Ah, well, apart from a new HAL component. That completely slipped my mind :-)
[18:08:23] <andypugh> Perhaps I should say "none of the things I expected to do"
[18:11:23] <JT-Shop> I have those kind of days often... today was different
[18:11:44] <JT-Shop> Rogge solved my gremlin lack of understanding :)
[18:12:30] <JT-Shop> I guess I should go ahead and finish cutting the pivot arms for the unjammers
[18:14:23] <tjb1> Pictures
[18:14:37] <tjb1> JT-Shop didn't understand something?
[18:14:39] * tjb1 writes this down
[18:17:16] <tjb1> I want to see the modifications
[18:19:34] <JT-Shop> photos at 10...
[18:19:59] <JT-Shop> I replaced the X slide top plate with a pair of rollers
[18:22:28] <tjb1> at 10?
[18:23:42] <archivist> past 12 here
[18:24:02] <tjb1> 7 here
[19:28:58] <andypugh> I think I figured out a way to one-shot oil my ballnut.
[19:30:09] <andypugh> Oil up the casting to the centre of the split inner race of the bearing, then along the bearing through a removed oil-seal, then retained by a new shaft seal, and then through drillings in the rotating housing into the oil hole.
[19:30:19] <andypugh> What could possibly go wrong?
[19:39:08] <tjb1> Fly presses are interesting
[19:42:51] <andypugh> Why would you want to press flies?
[19:43:12] <Tom_itx> write up an eco and submit it for approval andypugh
[19:44:45] <Tom_itx> what are you gonna use to shoot the oil?
[19:50:39] <andypugh> Some undisclosed form of central one-shot oiler
[19:52:17] <Tom_itx> so the ballnut is stationary?
[19:54:25] <andypugh> No. Rotating nut.
[19:55:00] <andypugh> Henze the byzantine oil routing I despcribed above.
[19:55:11] <toastydeath> fly presses are super useful
[19:55:16] <toastydeath> i wish they were still common
[20:25:38] <andypugh> toastydeath: One of the most useful tools I ever had access to was a lever press with losts of tooling.
[20:26:02] <andypugh> Cut-outs for all the common connectors, louvre cutter, corner notcher..
[21:17:33] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You are late.
[21:26:43] <s1dev> any thoughts on how expensive building a CNC plasma cutter for cutting aluminum (probably less than 1/2" thick) with a 4'x4' build area would be?
[21:28:44] <tjb1> 3k or less.
[21:29:14] <tjb1> My table is 4x8, around $3300
[21:29:18] <tjb1> not including the plasma cutter
[21:31:29] <s1dev> what was most of that cost?
[21:31:49] <tjb1> 1300 in steel, 1300 in electronics and carriages
[21:31:56] <tjb1> rest in other little stuff
[21:32:29] <s1dev> where can I find pictures of what the bed might look like
[21:34:49] <tjb1> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/25901-diy-cnc-plasma-table-lots-of-pictures
[21:34:51] <tjb1> Thats my table
[21:34:58] <s1dev> thanks
[21:35:00] <tjb1> JT-Shop should be putting some pictures of his on soon
[21:35:33] <tjb1> The bottom ones arent in order and there might be some newer ones on cnczone
[21:38:57] <s1dev> thanks for the help
[21:39:34] <tjb1> Yeppers
[21:40:54] <RyanS> This is hilarious.. For what is essentially a single axis with two actuators on a stand: http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/news/produkte/1_1_rsp2motion.asp have a guess how many $$ (without googling)?
[21:41:25] <tjb1> 675?
[21:41:52] <RyanS> motorized .. ^
[21:41:58] <tjb1> After further reading I would like to change that
[21:42:09] <tjb1> 3875?
[21:42:24] <RyanS> ^ $17,000
[21:42:40] <RyanS> They have to be joking
[21:42:44] <tjb1> What does it even do?
[21:42:51] <tjb1> Just for taking pictures?
[21:43:36] <RyanS> It just moves the camera up and down the column and also the table moves and is motorised
[21:44:45] <RyanS> You can get a professional to weld the frame, use servos & ballscrews for $1500 using quality components
[21:44:48] <tjb1> Can anyone estimate the cost for just the water cutting parts? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/burntables/168486-cnc_waterjet_tables_burntables.html
[21:44:56] <s1dev> people pay much more money than they should just because something is targeted specifically for that use
[21:45:22] <s1dev> some people just don't have the mentality that you can almost always build it cheaper than you can buy it
[21:46:22] <RyanS> A lot of things these days you can buy a cheaper than build.. but this is far beyond the cost of even having it professionally custom fabricated
[21:46:43] <s1dev> With water jets and plasma cutters, do you eventually end up cutting through the steel holding up the work piece?
[21:46:58] <tjb1> Oh wow, 1k just for the head...
[21:47:11] <tjb1> s1dev: thats what the slats are for, they are consumable
[21:47:39] <tjb1> s1dev: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[21:48:06] <s1dev> how much do each of those slats cost?
[21:49:24] <RyanS> hmm do those waterjet cutters need an external compressor installed at a facility to generate enough pressure? or it's usually part of the machine?
[21:49:35] <tjb1> RyanS: http://www.accustream.com/products/waterjet-machines/a-series/a-6015.html
[21:49:48] <tjb1> s1dev: Very cheap, I paid $96 for all of them
[21:50:03] <tjb1> I think that comes out to about $6 each?
[21:50:38] <RyanS> 15hp.. hmm I was expecting like a lot more
[21:50:46] <tjb1> they have 30
[21:50:54] <tjb1> and another one goes much higher, thats just the one I was looking at
[21:51:24] <tjb1> They have a 150hp model
[21:51:25] <tjb1> http://www.accustream.com/waterjet-cutting-machines.html
[21:51:30] <RyanS> Essentially it's just a really sophisticated high pressure washer :)
[21:52:05] <s1dev> was it scrap? I can't find prices like that
[21:52:40] <s1dev> RyanS: you can even cut holes in your car while trying to clean it!
[21:52:41] <tjb1> s1dev: Its 1/8 x1.5" HRS
[21:53:11] <RyanS> Headline "Man attempts to wash car with water jet cutter, cuts car in half"
[21:53:56] <s1dev> wow, that is cheap
[21:53:58] <s1dev> thanks
[21:54:04] <tjb1> s1dev: where do you buy your steel? I buy from a supplier that gets it direct from the mill
[21:54:18] <s1dev> Grainger or online metals
[21:54:21] <tjb1> dont play with the guys in the middle
[21:54:26] <tjb1> and those are horrible places
[21:54:36] <tjb1> You need to find a local supplier
[21:58:01] <s1dev> would the yellow pages be a start?
[21:58:47] <tjb1> Maybe
[21:59:12] <tjb1> Dont live in PA do you?
[22:00:22] <s1dev> Texas :D
[22:01:34] <s1dev> thanks for the help, I'll start looking for a local supplier
[22:02:11] <tjb1> Well with all the gas well down there, you should be exploding with steel suppliers
[22:02:46] <tjb1> What is grainger and onlinemetals price per inch for 1/8x1.5"?
[22:06:32] <s1dev> onlinemetals: $0.13/in, Grainger's website is generating 404s all over the place
[22:06:59] <s1dev> at first Grainger looks really expensive until you actually look at the dimensions
[22:07:46] <RyanS> so I want to design a camera stand, prob 600-800mm tall column (Z axis), with motorized travel. I was thinking 80/20 extrusion, 2 round steel linear bearings... (Probably needs to support no more than 5kg). What do you think for the transmission. acme leadscrews & NEMA 17 (?) steppers?
[22:08:10] <tjb1> My local is $.05 per inch
[22:08:37] <tjb1> RyanS: T-slots.com is probably cheaper
[22:11:48] <tjb1> RyanS: are you a student?
[22:13:28] <RyanS> Not in the area you might guess :)
[22:14:09] <RyanS> but yes
[22:16:26] <tjb1> Well t-slots has free shipping for students
[22:16:43] <RyanS> International shipping? :)
[22:18:48] <RyanS> There are some ebay sellers, but I can't be bothered creating the CAD models
[22:19:04] <tjb1> Maybe
[22:19:31] <tjb1> Mexico or Canada?
[22:20:34] <RyanS> Australia lol
[22:20:46] <tjb1> Doubt it
[22:21:36] <RyanS> hmm http://stores.ebay.com.au/CNC-AND-CUPCAKE-WORLD/CNC-Aluminium-T-slot-frame-/_i.html?_fsub=369405619&_sid=657086089&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322 I think this is probably overpriced but they have some cheap linear bearings
[22:22:40] <RyanS> hell I could probably get away with metric threaded rod for the leadscrews ..
[22:30:58] <tjb1> Is it hard to find left hand threads? :P
[22:31:52] <RyanS> Doesn't that only apply to toilet flush direction ?
[22:39:01] <tjb1> Dunno, you're the one in Australia
[23:06:16] <RyanS> I've never checked a northern hemisphere toilet so I have no grounds for a comparison
[23:14:08] <RyanS> Do I give a toss about backlash if I simply want to position something without much concern for repeatability or accuracy (1-2mm here or there I'm sure won't make a lot of difference for this application)?
[23:18:38] <tjb1> http://imgur.com/gallery/4Mmr7
[23:18:52] <tjb1> Anti-backlash nuts arent expensive
[23:20:30] <RyanS> but do they add terribly much friction ? (ie is this going to require larger stepper motors)
[23:21:06] <RyanS> btw that looks disgusting
[23:21:08] <tjb1> mine is pretty tight but I dont know what it would feel like with just a nut
[23:21:12] <tjb1> its a brownie!
[23:28:35] <RyanS> In terms of a Z axis 5kg load is pretty small? (ie the 'spindle' is 5kg)
[23:30:02] <tjb1> My entire Z is something like 25-30lbs
[23:32:37] <RyanS> ok 13kg.. How much torque has the stepper got?
[23:33:51] <tjb1> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/320-oz-in-28-mh-nema-23-stepper-motor-38-shaft-p-188.html?osCsid=1e61eb3dac758d1fefd20e0e5a4c3e3d
[23:33:56] <tjb1> 1/2-10 acme
[23:41:15] <RyanS> am I pushing my luck with 70 oz-in for 5kg (11lbs) .. hmm local supplier has NEMA 23 1550z-in. That's probably in the ballpark?
[23:44:54] <tjb1> I have no idea, I did no math :)
[23:45:56] <RyanS> you got a kit?
[23:47:32] <tjb1> No I just copied about every design on cnczone
[23:48:45] <RyanS> yeah I did that with my still :)
[23:52:32] <tjb1> I got an email from crucial… - "Dear Tyler <(>,<)>" is that a face?
[23:56:42] <toastyde1th> yes