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[00:27:55] <RyanS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1VtofzVG24 1:32....... jeez
[02:01:35] <DJ9DJ> moin
[05:05:49] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:08:22] <Loetmichel> *BAH* COOOLD* ... supervised the unload of 16 pallets Computers and monitors... now my fingers are feel-less :-(
[05:39:28] <mrsun> type faster so they get warm =)
[05:45:00] <DJ9DJ> you need an usb finger warm-up device
[05:45:21] * Loetmichel hat sich erst mal ein teechen gemacht ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802
[05:45:24] <Loetmichel> sorry
[05:45:26] <DJ9DJ> usb heated gloves
[05:45:38] * Loetmichel made hinself a little tea to warm the fingers and warm the inside ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802
[05:49:01] <syyl_> stop supervising, get to work ;)
[06:21:18] <mrsun> finaly found what will dissolve powder coating
[06:21:23] <mrsun> benzylalcohol =)
[06:21:37] <mrsun> syyl_, +1 =)
[06:22:12] <syyl_ws> :)
[06:23:13] <mrsun> just painted on a light coating of benzylalcohol and wrapped in plastic and put some heat on, in half an hour alot of paint has losened up already =)
[06:23:33] <mrsun> and havent coated nearly as much as it says to coat ... 1L is supposed to just be for 0.5 - 2 m2 of area
[06:23:43] <mrsun> but with plastic coating it cant evaporate z3
[06:23:44] <mrsun> <3
[06:24:05] <mrsun> the places where there is no plastic coating it has evaporated and dried out already and no mentionable effect on the powdercoat
[07:14:22] <jthornton> Dave Brubeck died at the ripe old age of 91
[07:14:40] <p0g0> taking 5 on high...
[07:15:22] <jthornton> yep, my favorite tune is take 5
[09:00:05] <L84Supper> mrsun: at least your powder coat, that link i posted showed that approach takes advantage of the pores in the polymer coating and gets into the pores and loosens the bond between it and the substrate
[09:02:44] <L84Supper> http://www.flexisolv.com/documents/FlexiSolv%20Benzyl%20Alcohol%20Technical%20Data%20Sheet.pdf has some interesting formulations using it
[10:28:09] <tjb1> JT-Shop: enlighten me the importance of homing
[10:28:23] <tjb1> Im not being a smartass, I just really want to know
[10:39:52] <mrsun> L84Supper, atleast it works =)
[10:40:02] <mrsun> tried it before and nothing happened
[10:40:14] <mrsun> borrowed it and tried it .. now i bought a can so i can go mental :P
[10:40:18] <mrsun> expensive tho :(
[10:42:13] <mrsun> tjb1, to know where you are on the workpiece? :)
[10:42:30] <tjb1> I can do that with touch off
[10:42:38] <mrsun> yeah thats what i ment also :P
[10:42:41] <mrsun> i see that as homing :P
[10:42:51] <mrsun> homing i guess is for the machine to have a fixed point to return to
[10:44:36] <gmouer> anyone know if firmware is available for the mesa 5i25 to use one 7i77 board and the spare port as a high speed standard parallel port?
[10:44:49] <gmouer> Didn't see anything on the mesa site
[10:47:54] <pcw_home> you can use the other pins as GPIO
[10:48:44] <gmouer> Hi Pete, I have 7i77x2 firmware on the 5i25 as shipped
[10:49:44] <pcw_home> Like all Hostmot2 firmware, all pins can be used as GPIO if the special functions are turned off
[10:50:52] <gmouer> never went into that area, I used pncconf which setup all the pins for me on the single 7i77
[10:51:35] <pcw_home> so for example if you set all sserial ports, encoders and what not to 0 in the config line you would just have 2 ports of GPIO
[10:52:14] <gmouer> the line where HM2 loads into hal?
[10:53:02] <JT-Shop> tjb1: it sets the machine 0 so soft limits work as well as G53 G0 and G28 and G30 and and and
[10:54:24] <gmouer> What about the firmware flashed into the 5i25? that was factory programmed for 2x 7i77..... does that get in the way at all?
[10:55:02] <pcw_home> no, all hostmot2 firmware can use all pins as GPIO
[10:56:34] <gmouer> so setting the spare 5i25 port up as a parallel port would be done in the hal file, where the HM2 is loaded, on that same line, correct?
[10:56:34] <pcw_home> and you can also use the mesaflash utility to update the 5I25 firmware if you wish
[10:57:02] <pcw_home> yes its dependent on the config=xxxx option
[10:57:34] <gmouer> thats what confuses me, why would I, and do I need to update the 5i25 firmware to use the setup as a single 7i77 and the spare port as a parallel port?
[11:03:10] <pcw_home> No
[11:03:20] <jdh> I just got back from a radio shack getting some coax power plug things. They had arduinos, basic stamps, various shields, etc. I thought they just sold cell phones and crappy electronics now.
[11:04:07] <pcw_home> reasons to update if you dont change your hardware are bugfixes, and new features
[11:04:07] <gmouer> thanks Pete, its not very clear yet, I will have to examine my hal file a bit and see if I can get a better understanding
[11:04:43] <gmouer> ok, have there been bugfixes and updates to the 5i25 7i77 firmware?
[11:04:54] <pcw_home> reading the HostMot2 manpage may help
[11:05:55] <gmouer> I know the older FPIO boards did not have the flash memory on them and a most of the docs are geared around the older board rather than the newer 5i25
[11:06:10] <pcw_home> Yes ther have been updates but nothing major, mainly stuff that does not affect your configuration
[11:06:55] <gmouer> is there a update listing anywhere that lists the various revision changes?
[11:07:01] <pcw_home> ( and working toward ability to upgrade remote firmware = 7I77 firmware for example)
[11:07:49] <pcw_home> Most changes have been in sserial and there are only listed in the sserial source
[11:09:05] <gmouer> I need to order another 7i77 soon, screwed up and got the 7i76 by accident with the 5i25
[11:09:25] <pcw_home> (which is in the firmware zipfile)
[11:09:55] <pcw_home> You can return it for credit
[11:10:14] <gmouer> wow, I didn't think that was possible, considering it was my screw up
[11:11:47] <gmouer> I'm yanking my machines off Mach3 one at a time, using 7i77's for all three, love those boards
[11:12:22] <pcw_home> Were pretty happy with it
[11:13:03] <gmouer> I dragged a couple friends with me from mach over to linuxcnc and mesa boards, all glad they made the switch
[11:13:24] <pcw_home> I think the lastest 7I77s and 7I76's have the MPG feature
[11:14:08] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:14:12] <gmouer> have not read about the "MPG" feature anywheres yet
[11:14:34] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[11:14:37] <pcw_home> Like all of our stuff it buried deep in the manuals
[11:15:36] <gmouer> my friend is starting a bridgeport retrofit today with a 7i77, it looks to be way too easy! Just reconnect the terminal strip leads in the old control to the 7i77, not a bit of additional electronics needed
[11:15:41] <IchGuckLive> smile on you pcw
[11:17:01] <gmouer> ah, have not looked for a updated 7i77 manual, I have been using the one from a few months ago, don't think it mentions MPG
[11:17:17] <IchGuckLive> gmouer: with servos already mounted ir to be dione
[11:17:19] <pcw_home> Well you need to check I/O polarities carefully since the 7I77 inputs need to be pulled up and the outputs drive grounded loads
[11:18:14] <gmouer> yea, I warned him about the field I/O being sourcing outputs, luckily that is exactly what he needs for all the bridgeport connections
[11:18:20] <pcw_home> The MPG option allows 2 MPG inputs (4 pins) on 7I77/7I76 input pins
[11:18:55] <pcw_home> I think inputs 16,17,18,19
[11:19:18] <gmouer> ah! using the standard input pins for MPG, not the encoder inputs, I see
[11:20:11] <pcw_home> Yes especially nice on the 7I76 where you dont have a free encoder
[11:20:57] <skunkworks> gmouer, But hood says he has never ever had mach do something funky...
[11:21:04] <skunkworks> :)
[11:21:37] <gmouer> yea sam, I seen that,,,,,, everyone has mach do something wierd, its just a matter of time
[11:21:39] <pcw_home> Supporting 5V encoders makes us glad we did all the inputs as analog so it just a firmware option to set thresholds
[11:22:52] <gmouer> Pete, things like setting those thresholds are done in the boards firmware, right? not something user accessible?
[11:23:20] <pcw_home> Not currently
[11:23:24] <kwallace> How high or low can the inputs go?
[11:23:35] <pcw_home> 0 to 36V
[11:23:59] <pcw_home> so for MPGs the threshold is set to 2.5V
[11:24:07] <gmouer> Pete, is that voltage range related to the field supply voltage?
[11:25:02] <pcw_home> Not the voltage range, but the default threshold is 40/60% of field voltage
[11:25:36] <pcw_home> (60% going up ,40% going down = hysteresis)
[11:26:23] <gmouer> I understand
[11:26:48] <kwallace> So one could run say 12 or 24 Volt signals from encoders with drivers on the far end to help with noise?
[11:27:03] <pcw_home> so with 24V field voltage threshold is 14.4V going up and 9.6V going down
[11:28:12] <pcw_home> Yes though the 7I77 MPG/encoder inputs are only good to 50,000 CPS since they are really intended for MPGs
[11:30:06] <pcw_home> We are limited by the ~4 MSPS A-D in the PIC and the 32 input channels we are reading
[11:46:50] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: on the 7i77 the inputs can this be driven by 24V on limitswitches and the 16-19 for MFG parallel 5V
[11:48:08] <pcw_home> Yes if you have the latest 7I77 firmware that supports the MPG inputs
[11:49:37] <IchGuckLive> did this also change on 7i76 i own
[11:50:40] <pcw_home> Yes but needs new 7I76 firmware.
[11:53:18] <IchGuckLive> i will se how i can get this on ubuntu done
[15:04:12] <tom3p> Dave Brubeck: wrangler, ukulele player, cowboy singer, and , oh yeah, jazz pianist
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/
[15:44:09] <Loetmichel> und leider tot
[15:44:29] <Loetmichel> ahem: ... and sadly: dead
[15:50:00] <L84Supper> at what point do you stop hand tapping 8mm holes in t-slot and just order it that way? :)
[15:50:44] <L84Supper> 2 maybe 4 holes max
[16:21:51] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:22:27] <kwallace> http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/sites/7/images/member_albums/45900/upt01.jpg
[18:32:55] <gene77> Lo all
[18:33:06] <andypugh> Ho gene
[18:33:16] <gene77> Hi Andy
[18:33:50] <gene77> working around the comp module
[18:34:23] <gene77> its part of my electronic fuse
[18:34:29] <andypugh> Which one?
[18:34:55] <andypugh> Ah, that one.
[18:35:09] <gene77> man 9 comp
[18:35:32] <andypugh> Ah, the comparator. Not the tool of the same name for making components.
[18:35:56] <gene77> I don't have anything wired to comp.0.in0, yes
[18:36:54] <gene77> i have pid.0.error wired to lowpass,1.in with a gain of about .1 for smoothing
[18:37:16] <andypugh> OK
[18:37:20] <gene77> and lowpass.1.out to comp.0.in1
[18:38:04] <gene77> co,p.0.out to motion.enable
[18:38:14] <gene77> comp.0.out to motion.enable
[18:39:06] <andypugh> Sounds reasonable so far.
[18:39:25] <gene77> I took that 10 uf cap out of Arturo's C41 and put in a .2 mylar, for much speedier response
[18:40:07] <andypugh> Is the PWM frequency still enough?
[18:41:14] <gene77> I have pid.0.FF0 way high, and pid.0.Pgain way up to, and at the moment its runniung about 300 rpm & rattling the head stock gears clearance, wobbling about 50 rpm I guess.
[18:41:36] <gene77> Thats currently at 400
[18:41:40] <andypugh> 50 rpm, or Hz?
[18:41:57] <gene77> rpms I think
[18:42:11] <andypugh> So rattling less than once a second?
[18:42:34] <andypugh> Or are you talking about the speed delta?
[18:42:59] <gene77> at slightly more than 1 second intervals I'd guess. yes speed delta
[18:43:34] <andypugh> You might wany I not P
[18:43:55] <gene77> and it isn't all that cyclic and doesn't really improve all that much if I lay a good grip on the chuck and warm up my hand
[18:45:03] <gene77> I have hal.conf on screen, I can try that, Igain is about .04 IIRC brb
[18:45:38] <gene77> .oo4
[18:47:06] <gene77> I tried up to 1.0 but that made it worse
[18:48:41] <gene77> Setp Pgain down to 100 sped it up, and sped up the wobble too
[18:49:14] <andypugh> What's the controller time-constant with the new cap?
[18:51:03] <gene77> Good Q , its feedback around an LF357 IITC
[18:51:54] <gene77> IIRC
[18:54:02] <gene77> I don't have my magnifying glass out here, its an 8 pin cmos opamp in that family though
[18:54:54] <andypugh> So, op-amp filter? I don't know enough electronics to work out that time constant
[18:55:13] <andypugh> What happens at twice the spindle speed?
[18:55:39] <gene77> I should, but Arturo isn't really sharing his schematics :)
[18:57:06] <andypugh> http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/echeeve1/Ref/FilterBkgrnd/Filters.html
[18:58:01] <gene77> Well, I took Pgain down to 15, and its stable nowm gained about 200 revs in that change, and the error is running negative
[18:58:33] <andypugh> So, just too much gain then?
[18:59:18] <Jymmm> andypugh: gene77
http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/RLClowkeisan.htm
[18:59:54] <andypugh> Jymmm: Does that work for an active filter?
[18:59:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: gene77 left column has all kinds of filters, low, high, bandpass, etc
[19:00:21] <andypugh> Sallen Key, that's the one
[19:00:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: last entry in the left column
http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/opampkeisan.htm
[19:00:38] <gene77> Seems stable even running pretty close to wide open about 10 rps according to the index pulse in halscope
[19:01:30] <andypugh> (I used a Sallen-Key as the output stage of my Resolver board.
[19:02:03] <gene77> But I believe its spinning faster than that. How accurate in the halscope timebase?
[19:02:22] <andypugh> Should be good, it uses the PC clock
[19:03:43] <Jymmm> Now, if it only told you what you need to wind your own chokes =)
[19:04:00] <gene77> Ok, this is progress on the speed, I slowed it down to about 3 rps and its as stiff as it can be speedwise.
[19:04:40] <gene77> That takes data from Arnold that I've long since lost since I last used it.
[19:04:56] <gene77> 25 years ago I think...
[19:05:42] <Tom_itx> andypugh,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/ACPL-P480_opto_sch.png
[19:05:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/ACPL-P480_opto_brd.png
[19:06:26] <andypugh> Making the PCB?
[19:06:35] <Tom_itx> naw i just drew it up
[19:06:41] <Tom_itx> unless you want the files
[19:06:42] <gene77> At 1.66 rps, I can't stop it
[19:06:55] <andypugh> (Probably simple enough for marker-pen ant etching production)
[19:07:07] <Tom_itx> i may get one next time i order something from dk or mouser
[19:07:16] <Tom_itx> probably so
[19:07:26] <andypugh> (and, not ant. I don't think formic acid is a great etchant)
[19:08:08] <Tom_itx> i've done fairly fine homebrew etching but not lately
[19:08:09] <gene77> Now, next silly Q, should pid.0.FF0 then be adjusted to nreduce the pid.0.error?
[19:09:25] <gene77> That gets pretty high in the - direction when the speed is cranked up again.
[19:10:18] <andypugh> Probably.
[19:10:35] <andypugh> But it will probably only be right at one speed.
[19:11:02] <Tom_itx> these attiny10 boards are probably the tightest traces i've done:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard1.jpg
[19:12:26] <andypugh> They look good.
[19:12:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you do those?
[19:12:32] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:12:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: is that a programmer or AVR ?
[19:13:18] <Tom_itx> it's an attiny10 breakout board
[19:13:36] * Jymmm googles attiny10
[19:13:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
[19:14:09] <Tom_itx> 4 io avr
[19:14:20] <Tom_itx> 16 bit timer, adc, pwm etc
[19:14:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: does it need an ext crystal?
[19:14:48] <gene77> That seems to be pretty good at 95. Is this the % of forward from command to output?
[19:15:36] <andypugh> gene77: Not directly. It is just a multiplier factor.
[19:17:29] <gene77> But I'm under the impression if its not 100, then its fighting with something else. I have so much low pass it takes a minute to stabilize at a new value
[19:18:40] <gene77> at 89 its negative, at 88 its positive but both are within .05 of zero
[19:19:27] <gene77> Now then, back to the comp that is my fuse.
[19:20:05] <andypugh> I think the answer to the question you haven't asked yet us "setp"
[19:20:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how much you selling a stuffed pcb for?
[19:21:54] <gene77> Would it be better to comp pid.0.command to pid.0.error? That would seem to give an overload only trip, exactly what doctor gene wants
[19:22:11] <gene77> I don't have an input to comp.0.in0 atm
[19:22:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And, can it be socketed (seriously)?
[19:23:03] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i'm not selling those
[19:23:15] <andypugh> gene77: You don't necessarily need an input to the pin. You can just setp it in the HAL file.
[19:23:18] <Tom_itx> i made it to test a protocol for my programmer
[19:23:43] <Tom_itx> you're welcome to the files
[19:24:07] <Tom_itx> the chips are about $.50
[19:25:32] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, internal 12mhz osc
[19:29:38] <jdh> I got 10 SOT-23 breakout boards on ebay for like $6. Should work for them
[19:30:45] <gene77> I see I need to change my handle, I had a birthday 2 months back, so now I'm 78. :)
[19:37:58] <andypugh> Doh! I thought you were 35 :-)
[19:39:00] <jdh> I'm only 31... 0x31 anyway
[19:39:25] <gene77> Thanks for the hand holding Andy. Except for the fuse bit, its working a lot better, but my diabetic feet are yelling for some heat. Yeah sure you did. :D
[19:39:33] <gene77> good night
[20:02:13] <Jymmm> jdh: link?
[20:10:28] <adb> http://junkplusarduino.blogspot.ch/p/attiny10-resources.html >Jymmm
[20:11:54] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270675844636
[20:12:13] <jdh> 10 for $4.50 shipped
[20:14:56] <jdh> or this one does sot23 & ssop8
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270676347982
[20:23:23] <Tom_itx> Jymmm what you got in mind for the t10?
[21:16:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: RGB LED controller/sequencer/dohickey
[21:22:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh
http://hackaday.com/2012/08/23/programming-the-attiny10-with-an-arduino/
[21:24:35] <Tom_itx> yep
[21:24:50] <Tom_itx> although i don't need one
[21:26:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/
[21:26:21] <Tom_itx> there's a few programs
[21:26:27] <Tom_itx> just test stuff
[21:26:48] <Jymmm> programmed in what?
[21:26:53] <Tom_itx> asm
[21:27:05] <Tom_itx> it's the language of choice on the t10
[21:27:17] <Jymmm> Damn =(
[21:27:21] <jdh> is there something else?
[21:27:26] <Tom_itx> gcc doesn't support it unless they've just added it recently
[21:27:34] <Tom_itx> something to do with the stack
[21:27:46] <Tom_itx> asm isn't bad
[21:28:03] <Jymmm> other than I've never touched it
[21:28:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/goodies/pwm/
[21:28:22] <Tom_itx> me either until i did it
[21:28:32] <Tom_itx> that's a little blinking lights and siren
[21:28:38] <Tom_itx> i found
[21:29:00] <Tom_itx> i've done a couple other chips in asm since then
[21:30:41] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/t10blink.asm
[21:30:44] <Tom_itx> led blink
[21:31:16] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/test/tn10_pwm_test.asm
[21:31:33] <Tom_itx> that one has a good basic start. all the interrupts are defined etc
[21:32:11] <jdh> I signed up for the sample thing, no email to my work email yet though.
[21:59:10] <Jymmm> sample thing?
[22:01:30] <Tom_itx> yeah
[22:01:37] <Tom_itx> it's when you get something for nothing
[22:02:03] <Jymmm> and your chicks for free
[22:02:35] <Jymmm> crap I haven't done my cw today
[22:02:39] <Tom_itx> you probably get more than chicks for free
[22:03:13] <Tom_itx> atmel's sample program is rather poor though
[22:03:31] <Jymmm> whats the next bigger?
[22:04:07] <jdh> poor how?
[22:04:21] <jdh> like, they don't give out samples?
[22:04:21] <Tom_itx> takes forever to get anything
[22:04:30] <jdh> oh. I can live with that
[22:04:41] <jdh> TI is great
[22:04:49] <Tom_itx> i managed to get some but they were sent to my local rep who then contacted me to deliver them
[22:05:22] <jdh> I had to pay $10 shipping for FreeScale, but they fedexed them from hongkong
[22:05:43] <Jymmm> I'd love to find an RGB version of this
http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/1339
[22:05:43] <Tom_itx> i've had samples come direct from digikey before
[22:06:19] <Jymmm> Heh, I can just drive over to freescale
[22:06:39] <Jymmm> or atmel, or maxim, or most of the others
[22:06:54] <jdh> does maxim do samples?
[22:06:56] <Tom_itx> check their trash bins
[22:07:09] <Tom_itx> i got 2-300 leds that way once
[22:07:13] <Jymmm> jdh: Yes, I've picked them up will call from them
[22:08:02] <Jymmm> oh an xilinx too
[22:08:28] <Jymmm> but i dnt know if they give samples, just where they are
[22:09:20] <Jymmm> But, these things are expensive
http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/1339
[22:12:24] <jdh> I've never watned to drive an LED
[22:13:02] <Jymmm> Heh, I want to drive about 400 of em
[22:13:40] <jdh> https://shop.maximintegrated.com/storefront/samplecart.do?event=SampleNow&partnumber=&rownum=1
[22:15:17] <jdh> Maxim.s sample program is one of the most generous in the industry. Free samples of most parts are available to registered members using commercial (e.g. @companyname.com) or educational institution (e.g. @edu.com) email accounts.
[23:51:36] <alex4nder>
