#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-12-02

[00:00:11] <Aero-Tec> is there a way to setup jogging when paused?
[00:04:05] <Aero-Tec> or do a Gcode pause that would allow jogging?
[00:20:02] <lwizardl> hello
[00:22:20] <lwizardl> what are some good programs for building the layouts of materials.
[00:38:39] <lwizardl> looking at these so far. Xara Xtreme, Skencil, sK1 Project, Inkscape
[01:26:34] <Jymmm> pcw_home: How's your ether board coming along?
[02:04:09] <mrsun> Aero-Tec, nah but i did ask for help in the channel and people are very helpfull =)
[02:04:33] <RyanS> If using a hand-held router as a spindle is it not possible to set the RPM in EMC or Mach3?
[02:05:02] <RyanS> or monitor for that matter
[02:08:13] <mrsun> RyanS, if you slap on an encoder of some kind yes youc an monitor it .. or tachometer
[02:08:36] <mrsun> controlling it ... hmm they are usaly controllable from a knop on them, just hack that in some way? :)
[02:09:07] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:09:23] <RyanS> but generally you would have to control it manually if you want to keep it simple?
[02:10:05] <RyanS> You are not going to change RPM during a job... Surely.
[02:11:56] <mrsun> yeah i guess you will only change rpm with change of cutter
[02:12:05] <mrsun> and cutting speed
[02:12:37] <mrsun> monitoring rpm could be a good thing, if it drops to 0 you can stop the machine from linuxcnc :P
[02:14:59] <RyanS> is structural steel angle any good as a frame material in a DIY CNC router?.... I can't imagine it being dimensionally accurate to any great degree
[02:26:58] <mrsun> im building my router with 40x80mm box tubing
[02:27:18] <mrsun> tho i do not expect 0.0001mm accuracy either :P
[02:27:27] <RyanS> beefy
[02:27:35] <toastydeath> RyanS, what do you mean by dimensionally accurate
[02:27:56] <toastydeath> if you mean cold rolled steel, no, it's not accurate
[02:28:49] <RyanS> Does that matter if you design design the machine properly?
[02:29:06] <mrsun> what expectations do you have on accuracy in the machine ?
[02:29:32] <toastydeath> you can use structural steel as the frame material and it will be far, far more rigid than, say, MDF
[02:29:57] <Jymmm> mrsun: nanometers to 12 digits!
[02:29:59] <toastydeath> but you will have to test and correct whatever axis guide you're using
[02:30:17] <toastydeath> if you use something like linear rails, you can shim the rails up and down
[02:30:21] <toastydeath> into rough alignment
[02:30:47] <Jymmm> mrsun: I want to THINK about having to fart and toss it out of alignment!
[02:30:57] <Jymmm> Guppy, heh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arytH0E5xCY
[02:33:27] <RyanS> Accuracy I don't know.. You will probably laugh 0.1mm perhaps?
[02:33:35] <RyanS> Too much to ask?
[02:34:19] * Jymmm gives toastydeath a noogy!
[02:35:31] <RyanS> Is this sort of design good, average, crap? http://www.kronosrobotics.com/krmx02/index.shtml
[02:36:08] <RyanS> I like the idea of reinforcing the 80/20 with steel
[02:37:16] <icee> wtf
[02:37:30] <icee> why even use 80/20 at that point
[02:38:00] <icee> the whole point of extrusions is not having to cobble together all kinds of angle and plate and drill holes all over the place
[02:38:17] <RyanS> idk is it more accurately sized than cold rolled steel?
[02:39:05] <RyanS> Perhaps alu. profile gives accuracy and steel rigidity ?
[02:39:12] * icee shrugs
[02:39:16] <icee> you can always scrape steel flat
[02:39:46] <RyanS> With what some industrial processing machine.....
[02:39:47] <icee> aluminum extrusions aren't exactly super precise dimensionally either
[02:40:03] <icee> no, a set of hand scraping tools and a good datum and some layout blue
[02:40:11] <icee> it goes way faster than one would expect
[02:40:15] <Jymmm> That is the most clusterfuck of a concept I've seen yet
[02:40:31] <toastydeath> RyanS, making machines accurate is a hand-worked process
[02:40:34] <toastydeath> no machines involved
[02:40:49] <RyanS> ok so crap design?
[02:40:57] <toastydeath> design doesn't make much sense, no.
[02:41:12] <icee> i do kinda like the bed-of-extrusions
[02:41:18] <icee> you'll be sure to have enough t slots
[02:41:18] <icee> :P
[02:41:19] <RyanS> why? I'm just wondering because I have no idea
[02:41:23] <Jymmm> They tried getting cheap by using steel plate and skate bearings instead of linear rails
[02:41:37] <Jymmm> or v0groove bearings, whatever.
[02:42:15] <RyanS> too many bolts, too complicated ?
[02:42:31] <icee> RyanS: I honestly don't understand their design decisions at all
[02:42:44] <Jymmm> bad design.... they dont have a mill to fab, they only have a drillpress and a saw
[02:42:55] <RyanS> It said something about lower centre of gravity....
[02:43:06] <RyanS> Is that BS?
[02:43:11] <toastydeath> total bs
[02:43:24] <icee> a low cetner of gravity is nice to the point.. that the machine doesn't tip over
[02:43:28] <icee> any lower doesn't matter (much)
[02:43:30] <Jymmm> horseshit... the 2x4 extrusion is top heavy alone
[02:43:42] <Jymmm> or is that 2x6?
[02:43:53] <toastydeath> I like gantry machines where the crossrail can be raised and lowered
[02:43:58] <toastydeath> much, much more rigid
[02:44:21] <Jymmm> and cheap hardware too
[02:44:27] <Jymmm> not even ss
[02:44:30] <toastydeath> adding a 1/4 of the current distance halves the static rigidity of the machine
[02:44:31] <RyanS> As in something like because the sides are raised the gantry pillars are not as tall? Perhaps that is why?
[02:44:50] <Jymmm> RyanS: DONT BUY IT
[02:45:03] <RyanS> I wasn't planning on
[02:45:18] <icee> does anyone make a kind of.. general purpose gantry machine?
[02:45:21] <icee> i'd really like it if
[02:45:29] <Jymmm> RyanS: They only good thign I see on it is the base.
[02:45:33] <icee> i could hot wire, plasma cut, and route full sheets of ply from the same thing
[02:45:50] <toastydeath> hot wire no
[02:45:51] <icee> and can build it myself if i have to, but it'd be nice to have a shopbot++ good-enough design
[02:46:00] <icee> i realize hot wire makes it a lot harder
[02:46:02] <toastydeath> but i've seen a machine that had plasma, torch, and router
[02:46:06] <icee> which makes it optional
[02:46:07] <RyanS> I know how to use solidworks pretty well but I'm no techie
[02:46:14] <toastydeath> also a drag knife
[02:46:22] <toastydeath> solidworks doesn't design the machine
[02:46:30] <toastydeath> solidworks is how you go from a design to a set of prints
[02:46:33] <RyanS> duh
[02:46:41] <RyanS> :)
[02:46:42] <icee> hmm
[02:46:44] <toastydeath> ...so why bring it up
[02:46:46] <icee> solidworks can be fun to play with concepts in
[02:46:59] <icee> calculate all your moments, verify things actually clear, etc
[02:47:11] <RyanS> Because I have the ability to document a design
[02:47:43] <RyanS> At least I don't have to learn that bit
[02:47:47] <toastydeath> I'd rather see that machine as two large pillars riding on a rail that's below the table
[02:47:53] <toastydeath> and the crossrail bolted to the pillars
[02:48:03] <icee> toastydeath: do you know offhand who makes the multipurpose gantry machine you saw?
[02:48:12] <toastydeath> also the router is way overhanging the bottom of the Z axis for no apparent reason
[02:48:26] <toastydeath> icee, negative, it was like 6 months ago
[02:48:27] <toastydeath> sorry
[02:48:33] <icee> ok, thx
[02:48:38] <toastydeath> iirc all i was doing is searching for "cnc router"
[02:48:43] <RyanS> So rather than dropping the bed it's better to just have a taller Z?
[02:48:46] <toastydeath> and looking for 4x8, 3 axis machines
[02:49:11] <toastydeath> no, it's better to have as little kinematic path between the part and the tool
[02:49:21] <toastydeath> "taller z" doesn't totally summarize that
[02:49:27] <icee> http://www.plasmaroutecnc.com/index.php
[02:49:29] <icee> ah, i found this
[02:49:47] <RyanS> longer z stroke
[02:49:53] <toastydeath> yeah
[02:50:06] <toastydeath> Long z stroke, and the position of Z should be adjustable if possible
[02:50:13] <icee> hmmm
[02:50:16] <icee> didn't think of that..
[02:50:24] <icee> if you have a water table, you're not doing vacuum bleed holddown
[02:50:41] <toastydeath> put some posts in the water table
[02:50:45] <toastydeath> build a vac table
[02:50:47] <RyanS> If you make it too long do you loose rigidity ?
[02:50:56] <toastydeath> RyanS, let me draw something
[02:51:23] <Jymmm> toastydeath: is it pr0n?
[02:51:37] <Jymmm> toastydeath: is it ascii pr0n?
[02:51:58] <Jymmm> toastydeath: is it colorized ascii pr0n?
[02:52:26] <RyanS> If I was in the US, I'd buy this and have no design headaches. http://romaxxcncrouters.com/cnc-router-store#ecwid:category=2549172&mode=product&product=10142335 it seems like a good price for turnkey
[02:52:27] <toastydeath> http://www.twiddla.com/1019356
[02:52:32] <toastydeath> it can be ascii porn i you draw it
[02:52:34] <toastydeath> *if
[02:53:31] <Jymmm> toastydeath: I think I'd ave prefered the ascii version =)
[02:54:14] <Jymmm> toastydeath: not bad on the text drawing =)
[02:55:01] <toastydeath> i have a wacom
[02:55:06] <toastydeath> cheating
[02:55:06] <Jymmm> ah
[02:55:08] <icee> yah, i don't see any examples of water table + vacuum table
[02:55:20] <Jymmm> toastydeath: how is it for vector drawing?
[02:55:42] <Jymmm> toastydeath: and what size do you have?
[02:55:46] <icee> i guess it's not a super common use case
[02:55:55] <toastydeath> it's tiny as balls
[02:56:04] <toastydeath> and it's kinda pointless for vector drawing
[02:56:30] <Jymmm> toastydeath: how so?
[02:57:09] <toastydeath> dunno, that's just how i feel about it
[02:57:14] <toastydeath> i always use the mouse
[02:57:22] <toastydeath> it's really hard to adjust points and splines and things
[02:57:37] <Jymmm> toastydeath: pita for node editing you mean?
[02:57:58] <toastydeath> yes
[02:58:01] <Jymmm> k
[02:58:08] <toastydeath> also bad for single-line drawing
[02:58:13] <toastydeath> it's best for digital painting
[02:58:15] <Jymmm> ah
[02:58:17] <toastydeath> where you don't have to be accurate
[02:58:56] <icee> on the other hand
[02:59:05] <icee> the nouveau-spaceball-ish / 3dconnexion stuff
[02:59:06] <icee> is the best thing ever
[02:59:11] <Jymmm> toastydeath: I thought it might be nice to program certain things into it to relieve the mouse PLUS kybd comannds
[02:59:27] <toastydeath> same
[02:59:30] <toastydeath> it might work for you
[02:59:32] <toastydeath> it doesn't for me
[02:59:34] <Jymmm> Not that big a deal, just cumbersome sometimes
[02:59:46] <toastydeath> I pretty much use it for math tutoring/online whiteboarding only
[03:00:05] <Jymmm> flipping back and forth between tools is getting old.
[03:00:26] <Jymmm> I've never used a drafters tablet, but that seems more of what I need.
[03:00:35] <Jymmm> or whatever they are called.
[03:00:38] <Jymmm> brb
[03:01:45] <toastydeath> Drafter's tablet?
[03:01:52] <toastydeath> like, the actual drafting machines?
[03:01:54] <toastydeath> i have one of those
[03:05:41] <RyanS> toasty so the crossrail is the horizontal beam on the gantry or Y axis?
[03:06:04] <toastydeath> gantry
[03:06:06] <toastydeath> yes
[03:06:20] <toastydeath> the crossrail is the Y+Z axis assembly
[03:06:43] <RyanS> And to making adjustable height on that means you can tram the machine?
[03:06:59] <toastydeath> you HAVE to tram the machine
[03:07:06] <toastydeath> every time you move it, you have to realign it
[03:07:10] <toastydeath> http://www.abltechnology.com/equipment-images/large/7469.jpg
[03:07:19] <toastydeath> here's a good example of a machine that has a movable crossrail
[03:07:33] <toastydeath> notice how the Z and X axes (since it's a lathe) are on the crossrail
[03:07:40] <toastydeath> but the crossrail itself moves
[03:08:46] <toastydeath> Having a movable crossrail also means you can cut on a slant
[03:08:55] <toastydeath> if you design it cleverly
[03:09:08] <RyanS> But you would not CNC that bit?
[03:09:18] <toastydeath> generally no, the crossrail never moves
[03:09:20] <toastydeath> and so isn't cnc
[03:09:28] <toastydeath> personally, I'd just make it bolt-on
[03:09:50] <toastydeath> the Bullard in that picture weighs 50,000+ lbs, so the crossrail is probably 8000-10k lbs
[03:09:57] <toastydeath> so it has to have screws to move it
[03:10:15] <toastydeath> alu extrusions, by contrast, are easy to move and tram
[03:10:17] <RyanS> So how do you tram the X axis if the gantry is 'nodding' forward or backward?
[03:10:39] <toastydeath> the x axis on the bullard or on a 3 axis mill
[03:10:43] <toastydeath> mill/router
[03:11:01] <RyanS> 3 axis mill
[03:11:16] <RyanS> Moving gantry style
[03:11:16] <toastydeath> that's dependent on how you do the gantry
[03:11:34] <RyanS> Like the typical DIY router
[03:11:35] <toastydeath> since X is the entire gantry moving, the alignment is relatively fixed
[03:11:43] <toastydeath> let me draw again so we have the same frame of refg
[03:11:52] <toastydeath> http://www.twiddla.com/1019361
[03:11:55] <toastydeath> talk in here though
[03:13:33] <toastydeath> so
[03:13:43] <toastydeath> what kind of nod are you talking about
[03:13:44] <RyanS> I guess you can shim the linear rails for X
[03:13:49] <toastydeath> yeo
[03:13:51] <toastydeath> *yep
[03:13:58] <toastydeath> and that's what I recommend
[03:14:09] <toastydeath> it kills rigidity but scraping is probably beyond your skill level for some time
[03:14:19] <RyanS> I need side view
[03:15:03] <Jymmm> RyanS turn your monitor sideways
[03:15:17] <toastydeath> that doesn't happen
[03:15:29] <toastydeath> if it does, it means your X is out of alignment vertically and you shimmed it wrong
[03:15:46] <RyanS> But not difficult to fix?
[03:16:33] <toastydeath> nope
[03:16:51] <RyanS> umm and ..
[03:16:52] <toastydeath> if it nods forward that means the rails are bowed
[03:17:16] <RyanS> twisted Z
[03:17:23] <toastydeath> the Z axis nod in the Y direction is fixed by unbolting the rails a little and hitting it with a hammer
[03:17:26] <toastydeath> until it's in alignment
[03:17:36] <toastydeath> (not joking)
[03:17:40] <toastydeath> (use a deadblow with a soft face)
[03:17:51] <RyanS> Unbolt the spindle moount?
[03:17:55] <toastydeath> yep
[03:18:13] <RyanS> And of course the Y by shifting the crossrail
[03:18:19] <toastydeath> yep
[03:19:15] <RyanS> I think I'd make the base out of hulking great pieces of structural steel
[03:19:31] <toastydeath> if you can find iron, that's best
[03:19:47] <toastydeath> it makes a big difference for chatter
[03:20:11] <RyanS> I know why the KRM has the be spilling over the front
[03:20:25] <toastydeath> because it's not a very good design
[03:20:39] <toastydeath> it doesn't matter WHY it's like that
[03:20:47] <RyanS> Because crossbeam pillars are vertical and not slanting backwards
[03:21:01] <toastydeath> no, that's fine
[03:21:10] <toastydeath> i draw the bigass slanting pillars because it's rigid
[03:21:42] <toastydeath> the closer to the base you are, the more important it is to have rigidity there
[03:21:52] <toastydeath> so very often in machine castings you'll see a tapered profile
[03:21:58] <toastydeath> because it makes no sense to have a really thick top
[03:22:01] <toastydeath> because there's no stress there
[03:22:26] <RyanS> I wonder if you could just buy triangular shaped aluminium flat to use as the pillars.. I don't have access to a milling machine
[03:22:44] <toastydeath> use whatever you got
[03:22:53] <toastydeath> just make them really thick in the X axis
[03:23:01] <toastydeath> in both, if you can
[03:23:20] <toastydeath> because they're the major element absorbing the milling force in the X and Y direction
[03:23:29] <toastydeath> the crossbeam absorbs most of Z
[03:23:44] <toastydeath> and by absorb, i mean contributes the most to deflection
[03:23:54] <RyanS> We have lots of plate but nothing to cut with besides an angle grinder or a hacksaw
[03:23:57] <toastydeath> which is why the Y axis on a gantry should ALWAYS be the smallest one
[03:24:30] <RyanS> but an pretty beefy drill press which managed to drill through 6mm stainless plate without dying
[03:24:46] <toastydeath> haha
[03:25:01] <RyanS> Is that not an achievement?
[03:25:20] <toastydeath> depends on the size of the drill
[03:25:38] <toastydeath> oftentimes small drill presses stuggle more with themselves, in that they don't deal well at slow speeds
[03:25:51] <toastydeath> rather than with actual drill or material considerations
[03:25:56] <RyanS> It ate 1/4" cobolt drill bits
[03:26:22] <toastydeath> unusual
[03:26:34] <RyanS> Ran pretty low RPM too
[03:26:48] <RyanS> Cut really hard
[03:27:09] <toastydeath> SS also work hardens
[03:27:13] <toastydeath> which may be why the tool died
[03:27:30] <RyanS> yeah we tried to cut aggressively
[03:27:32] <toastydeath> by hand I like to cut as slow as possible and basically hang off the feed
[03:27:40] <toastydeath> with 1/2 of my bodyweight or so
[03:27:59] <toastydeath> nice thick chips mean no work hardening
[03:28:46] <RyanS> You basically have to 'gouge' metal rather than scraping
[03:28:54] <toastydeath> yep
[03:29:25] <toastydeath> the counterintuitive thing is that the bigger chip you cut, the less horsepower per volume per minute it takes
[03:29:50] <toastydeath> so if you cut the speed in half, you will be able to more than double the chip load
[03:30:06] <toastydeath> which means you'll be cutting even faster per minute
[03:30:27] <toastydeath> the tool will go 1" at speed 1, and 1.1-1.2" at speed .5
[03:30:38] <RyanS> I have a SS still made with sanity tube fittings.... I just need to get around to finishing the electronics wiring and and assemble the thing
[03:30:39] <toastydeath> as long as the machine can handle that larger load
[03:31:26] <RyanS> We had to drill through the end caps to make a shell and tube heat exchanger
[03:31:44] <RyanS> Those were 6 mm
[03:32:38] <RyanS> It was a lesson in budget blowout and getting carried away in CAD
[03:34:11] <toastydeath> lol
[05:27:38] <awallin> mhaberler: hi. any insanely-great developments lately? (as usual! :)
[05:28:19] <mhaberler> hm, visitors present so pipeline stalled ;)
[05:29:01] <awallin> ok.. I am trying this atom-board, which unfortunately has "cedarview" graphics.. well hopefully it will work
[05:38:10] <mhaberler> with RTAI I assume?
[05:39:38] <mhaberler> awallin: I know I need to write this up, but that branch is still shaky and wip, so leave a bit of time until it approaches merge candidate..
[05:40:07] <mhaberler> we dont have any tested PCI drivers yet, for instance
[05:52:29] <awallin> oh ok..
[05:53:08] <awallin> I'm trying just a normal ubuntu install now, no real-time. it seems either the cedarview package is broken, or it takes a LONG time to compile/install
[05:55:42] <awallin> I bet there are no cedarview drivers for 10.04... if I wanted to try RTAI (or can I use an old RTAI kernel on a 12.04 distro?)
[06:01:07] <mhaberler> I would think that works
[06:02:12] <mhaberler> what changes is: you get the set of drivers supported by the RTAI kernel, not the set assumed by precise, so one or the other hw-dependent peripheral might not work as expected
[06:05:18] <awallin> ok... what I would want is either xenomai or rt-preempt on 12.04lts with reliable 1ms servo thread, then work on gtk+HAL standalone things..
[06:07:13] <awallin> 10.04lts + RTAI will just continue to generate more and more problems with new motherboards I feel
[06:28:33] <awallin> grrr cedarview driver install seems to have failed now for the 3rd time. just reboots the machine in the middle of the install and when it boots again the screen is just garbled up and unusable
[06:30:30] <rizo> Hello, one short question: The output of PID position loop is velocity. Ok, but how can i connect the velocity to torque input of sine servo amplifier?
[06:31:11] <awallin> the output is just a number.. you can connect it anywhere
[06:32:58] <RyanS> What on earth is this used for ? http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=44756
[06:33:03] <rizo> I know it can be connected anywhere :) but i suppose it should be connected in a way that make sense
[06:33:38] <awallin> rizo: torque mode will work, the interpretation of what the gains mean/do just changes
[06:36:01] <rizo> i am still not sure: the output of pid is scalar, but i need a vector to control the servo amplifier. I need to specify the currents through 3 windings.
[06:37:07] <awallin> rizo: oh, there should be some bldc components for that, I think by andypugh
[06:37:17] <awallin> do you have a mesa fpga-card for pwm-generation?
[06:37:45] <rizo> no...some coustom made DA converter.
[06:37:58] <rizo> The voltage is proportional to phase current.
[06:39:32] <awallin> do you have a linuxcnc driver for this then?
[06:43:08] <rizo> no, but i will write a code for simple hal component so that i will control the desired voltage.
[06:43:49] <awallin> rizo: try http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/bldc_sine.9.html
[06:44:20] <awallin> I thing figuring out where exactly the rotor is, so that you get the sine-commutation right is the tricky part
[06:45:39] <RyanS> jeez hand scraping is crazy stuff
[06:46:20] <mhaberler> yes, I fear so
[06:46:56] <mhaberler> that combo should work fine (pci is in the works, Charles is on the pci shim case and has a 5i25 to test)
[06:48:21] <awallin> mhaberler: so I fear I'll have to abandon the dn2800mt atom-board because of the cedarview graphics :(
[06:48:26] <rizo> awallin, i see, i think this bldc_sine is exactly what i need :) Will try that, thank you!
[06:49:00] <mhaberler> never heard of it, need to look that up
[06:50:00] <awallin> https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-dn2800mt.html
[06:50:28] <awallin> apparently the graphics chip on those is well known to be really really badly supported on linux. I guess I should have checked before getting the board..
[06:50:30] <mhaberler> is there a driver issue, or latency?
[06:50:43] <mhaberler> fleabay...
[06:50:45] <awallin> I can't get the graphics driver installed
[06:50:59] <mhaberler> you mean on rtai?
[06:51:08] <awallin> no just normal 12.04 install
[06:51:32] <mhaberler> and that: ? http://daily.siebler.eu/2012/06/ubuntu-12-04-driver-for-intel-cedarview-atom-n2000-und-d2000-serie/
[06:51:55] <mhaberler> you likely need to rebuild from source because of the old kernel
[06:52:08] <awallin> yeah those are now supposed to be in the repos. and ubuntu automagically suggests them - but the installer fails
[06:52:43] <mhaberler> saying what?
[06:52:58] <awallin> just reboots the machine in the middle of the driver-install
[06:53:05] <awallin> after that when booting the screen is garbled
[06:53:07] <mhaberler> holy cow
[06:53:55] <mhaberler> great doorstop
[06:55:12] <awallin> did anyone try rtai on amd fusion cpu?
[06:55:31] <mhaberler> fusion.. whatzat, 64bit?
[06:55:48] <awallin> comparable to intel atom
[06:55:53] <awallin> low power low performance etc
[06:55:59] <mhaberler> aja
[06:56:13] <mhaberler> that looks indeed a bit desparate: http://askubuntu.com/questions/168986/cedar-view-drivers-arent-working
[06:56:26] <awallin> yeah..
[06:57:48] <mhaberler> the first answer looks like he got it going
[06:58:18] <mhaberler> not for the faint
[06:59:51] <awallin> is "intel HD graphics" a well defined chipset? :) with good linux support?
[07:00:05] <mhaberler> uh..
[07:00:08] <awallin> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-dh61ag.html
[07:00:15] <mhaberler> this is terry incognita for m
[07:00:16] <mhaberler> e
[07:20:15] <awallin> mhaberler: any idea if it will be difficult to get PCI(E) drivers working on xenomai/rt-preempt?
[07:20:42] <mhaberler> not really; it's going to be all memory mapped
[07:22:06] <mhaberler> no interrupts used, so straighforward; Charles is working on replacing the pci kernel support with a shim include file/maybe a bit of support code to make drivers run unchanged except for the include/define/link mods
[07:22:31] <awallin> ok, sounds good
[07:22:49] <mhaberler> it's going to be the same for all userland threads, so you'll be able to test a hm2 driver with simulator provided that makes any sense;)
[07:23:10] <awallin> still requires the fpga-card to be present though?
[07:23:24] <mhaberler> well yes, we cant simulate that just yet
[07:23:36] <awallin> ok
[07:23:40] <mhaberler> sim really was a misnomer - it means 'no drivers'
[07:24:08] <mhaberler> (and reduced kernel requirements, i.e. none)
[07:25:19] <mhaberler> I am fairly sure that the beaglebone $85 board with stepgens in the onboard RT CPU will blow away any RT threading we have up to now
[07:25:37] <mhaberler> (sw stepping I wanted to say)
[07:26:19] <mhaberler> it comes with two free 200Mhz 32bit 'arduinos' on board which can talk to pins
[07:26:23] <awallin> but then non-x86 is always going to be trickier than plain x86..
[07:26:45] <mhaberler> well its really the intel/pc monoculture vs the ARM board djungle
[07:27:07] <mhaberler> it is really per-SoC
[07:27:12] <mhaberler> not per board
[07:27:29] <awallin> right..
[07:36:14] <jthornton> I'm trying to import a python file into my gui but for some reason I get an error, I copied the file with sudo cp jog.py /usr/share/pyshared/gui7
[07:37:01] <jthornton> now the strange part I did this a while back (gui6) and I can say from gui6 import jog and it works
[07:37:48] <jthornton> but when I say from gui7 import jog I get this error ImportError: cannot import name jog
[07:38:26] <jthornton> I'm using touchy as a guide
[07:38:40] <mhaberler> do you have a duplicate name (a proper module with .so extension and a python file with same basename but .py) ?
[07:39:07] <mhaberler> in that case the python interp goes for the .py file and fails to import from the .so
[07:39:14] <jthornton> I don't think I have a .so file
[07:39:22] <mhaberler> or an old .pyc file with same name
[07:39:38] <mhaberler> (precompiled python, appears after first run)
[07:39:56] <jthornton> let me look
[07:40:09] <mhaberler> is /usr/share/pyshared/gui7 on the PYTHON_PATH?
[07:40:32] <mhaberler> try sys.path.add(..) that directory to make sure python looks there
[07:40:57] <jthornton> ok
[07:42:03] <mhaberler> try this
[07:42:05] <mhaberler> import sys
[07:42:20] <mhaberler> sys.path.append("/usr/share/pyshared/gui7")
[07:42:34] <jthornton> ok
[07:43:34] <jthornton> ImportError: cannot import name jog
[07:44:46] <jthornton> system path
[07:44:46] <jthornton> ['/usr/bin', '/usr/bin', '/usr/lib/python', '/usr/bin', '/usr/lib/python', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gtk-2.0', '/usr/lib/pymodules
[07:44:46] <jthornton> /python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/share/pyshared/gui7']
[07:44:58] <jthornton> seems to be on the path
[07:45:03] <Jymmm> WTH?!
[07:46:48] <mhaberler> permissions on /usr/share/pyshared/gui7/jog.py ?
[07:47:04] <mhaberler> or the directory /usr/share/pyshared/gui7 ?
[07:47:17] <awallin> it's useful to include a git commit id or some other revision string in the modules so you can check what you have right after "import"
[07:48:00] <jthornton> checking
[07:50:45] <mhaberler> I use `git describe --dirty --always` for a git scent mark
[07:53:56] <jthornton> the file permissions for jog.py are the same in both /usr/share/pyshared/gui6 and gui7 -rw-r--r--
[07:54:26] <jthornton> can't figure out the command to see what the directory permissions are yet
[07:55:32] <mhaberler> ls -ld <dir>
[07:55:33] <jthornton> both directories are drwxr-xr-x
[07:56:12] <mhaberler> cd to that dir, start python, and try 'import jog', would that work?
[07:56:28] <jthornton> ok
[07:56:48] <jthornton> yes that works
[07:56:56] <jthornton> quit()
[07:56:59] <jthornton> opps
[07:58:04] <mhaberler> so its either a path issue, or it picks up some jog.py on a a dir before yours
[07:58:07] <mhaberler> try this
[07:58:45] <mhaberler> import sys
[07:59:00] <mhaberler> sys.path.insert(0, "/usr/share/pyshared/gui7")
[07:59:11] <mhaberler> this will prepend that dir before all others
[07:59:24] <jthornton> ok
[07:59:38] <mhaberler> so if some other dir has a jog.so or jog.py or jog.pyc, it wont suck that in
[08:01:49] <mhaberler> oh, I see /usr/bin in your path.. why?
[08:01:51] <jthornton> I seem to be having a copy problem, I changed the from gui7 import jog to from gui7 import status and I still get the jog error... let me check my copy script
[08:02:58] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/VXW9Ci3V
[08:03:27] <jthornton> monkey see monkey do, I copied some from touchy
[08:04:56] <mhaberler> hm, you're using subpackages: from gui7 import status
[08:04:57] <mhaberler>
[08:05:22] <mhaberler> have an __init__.py file in that gui7 dir?
[08:05:35] <jthornton> I think I see the problem I had gui7 and gui7.py in /usr/bin
[08:05:42] <mhaberler> bingo
[08:06:15] <jthornton> so no matter what I did I still got the old file me thinks
[08:08:07] <jthornton> no __init__.py in the gui7 directory, I'll add one
[08:10:43] <jthornton> oh it works now, thanks
[09:18:09] <rizo> i am looking for bldc_sine component (http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/man/man9/bldc_sine.9.html). There is man.9 for the component, but not compiled in latest release 2.5 and also there is no source code at latest [linuxcnc.git] / src / hal / components /
[09:18:54] <rizo> is this hal component still in development phase?
[09:35:59] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[09:43:55] <JT-Shop> it appears the man page has preceeded the comp
[09:44:51] <JT-Shop> rizo: ask on the forum and Andy will be sure to see your question
[09:44:53] <pcw_home> BLDC_sine is obsolete having been replaced by BLDC
[09:45:24] <JT-Shop> then the man page needs to be vaporized :)
[09:47:15] <JT-Shop> hmm it is not a hand written man page
[09:48:01] <pcw_home> and both BLDC and its manual are in 2.5
[09:48:57] * JT-Shop is at a loss how the man page is there for bldc_sine
[09:50:36] <IchGuckLive> BLCD are getting cheeper and cheeper
[09:52:46] <pcw_home> the BLDC comp does everything the BLDC_sine comp did and more (its kind of a kitchen-sink comp)
[10:03:58] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Is the 7I80DB the ONLY ether I/O card?
[10:05:24] <awallin> Jymmm: did someone already write a linuxcnc driver for that board?
[10:05:46] <Jymmm> awallin: I'm not sure.
[10:13:44] <pcw_home> Well there's the 50 pin I/O version (7I80HD)
[10:14:17] <pcw_home> driver is being worked on
[10:14:41] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 2x 50pin?
[10:15:07] <pcw_home> 3x50
[10:15:17] <pcw_home> 72 I/O
[10:16:07] <Jymmm> pcw_home: how do you get 4 extra pins by chaning connectors?
[10:17:00] <pcw_home> 7I80DB uses Parallel port compatible pinout so 17 I/O x4 =68
[10:17:42] <Jymmm> voltage wise?
[10:18:05] <pcw_home> ?
[10:18:17] <Jymmm> "port compatible "
[10:18:28] <pcw_home> Yes
[10:18:54] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ok, I dont understand the differnce then
[10:18:55] <pcw_home> both 7I80s have 5V tolerant I/O
[10:18:59] <Jymmm> k
[10:19:28] <pcw_home> only difference is connectors
[10:20:09] <Jymmm> Oh, the 17 pins being the ieee-1284 compatability
[10:20:20] <Jymmm> 1284 (?)
[10:20:51] <pcw_home> Yes (well and all PC parallel ports from the Dawn of time compatible)
[10:20:51] <Jymmm> so just matching the pinouts, not different signal voltages
[10:20:59] <pcw_home> Yes
[10:21:23] <Jymmm> got it, are the other 4 pins "available" ?
[10:21:34] <pcw_home> parallel ports are just TTL compatible no more no less
[10:21:40] <pcw_home> No
[10:22:10] <Jymmm> Bummer, might hae been nice for extra LED's or whatever.
[10:23:55] <pcw_home> I'd rather the cards were identical except things that have to be different so the support firmware source and drivers are identical
[10:24:13] <Jymmm> I understand. What is "LX16" ?
[10:24:22] <pcw_home> FPGA size
[10:24:32] <Jymmm> ah
[10:24:49] <Jymmm> $169 ok
[10:25:31] <pcw_home> there are 2 different FPGA sizes available (well possibly 3 but the smallest is pretty cramped)
[10:30:08] <Jymmm> pcw_home: It's not a DSP of course, but can you think of any reason it couldn't be used as such?
[10:32:27] <pcw_home> FPGAs are often used as DSPs
[10:33:06] <Jymmm> pcw_home: That's what I mean, and I was asking if the 7180 could be used as such
[10:33:10] <pcw_home> Probably one of the more common uses (Cellular base stations etc)
[10:33:22] <pcw_home> sure
[10:33:42] <Jymmm> pcw_home: what kind of bandwidth would you guestimate?
[10:34:19] <pcw_home> The host bandwidth is not very high over Ethernet
[10:34:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Not as a pseudo DSP sampling bandwidth
[10:34:57] <Jymmm> err
[10:35:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: No, as a pseudo DSP sampling bandwidth
[10:35:11] <pcw_home> but there lots of processing power available (I think the are either 32 or 48 MACs available)
[10:35:59] <pcw_home> say 100 to 100s of MHz
[10:36:27] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 100MHz sampling bandwidth, really?
[10:36:35] <pcw_home> sure
[10:36:57] <Jymmm> wow
[10:37:17] <Jymmm> is that pushing it to it's limits?
[10:37:20] <pcw_home> Thats why you will see most high end A-D connect to FPGAs
[10:37:31] <pcw_home> no
[10:38:30] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Is there an equiv clock speed *I* could use to compare to an (lets say) intel cpu?
[10:38:35] <pcw_home> and the Spartan 6 supports LVDS serdes on all pins to close to a GHz
[10:39:24] <Jymmm> pcw_home: (BTW, the idea I have is a SDR Transceiver)
[10:39:47] <Jymmm> pcw_home: using the ether as UI I/O
[10:40:46] <pcw_home> medium sized FPGA to Intel CPU Raw floating point much lower pipelined fixed point equal or higher for 1/50 the power
[10:42:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I meant more like i5, P4, 286 as *I* have no comparison
[10:42:35] <pcw_home> It is rather apples and oranges
[10:42:55] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I know it's apples and walnuts, but just as an idea
[10:43:04] <archivist> get a lemon
[10:43:20] <Jymmm> archivist: I got LOTS of those =)
[10:44:00] <pcw_home> Its also really dependent on the skill of the FPGA firmware designer
[10:45:28] <pcw_home> If you have a Ray Andraka to design it it will fly. If I do it it will crawl...
[10:46:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: and I do it, it will collect dust =)
[10:47:10] <pcw_home> :-)
[10:49:16] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Xilinx® Spartan® 3A-DSP 3400 FPGA
[10:49:37] <IchGuckLive> as i viewd around today of bad weather otside iv seen so many minimills are now build in facturies around the globe
[10:49:45] <IchGuckLive> also lots of lathe
[10:50:22] <IchGuckLive> i got also the new Deskproto installt today and it holds now 250 postprozessor of all kind of mashienes
[10:50:53] <IchGuckLive> including EMC i will tell him the nameconversion
[10:51:38] <IchGuckLive> it has now also a ROBOT post
[10:51:49] <jthornton> lots of folks still use EMC
[10:52:14] <IchGuckLive> so the demo is nice to be installed at a low cost pc every 30days :D ;-)
[10:52:51] <IchGuckLive> JT yes yesterday if been on 2.3.5
[10:54:53] <IchGuckLive> Question if i have steplen,stepspace,dir,... set do i then need the parport reset time
[11:02:16] <pcw_home> No sure, where is the reset mode documented? is there a man page?
[11:04:14] <IchGuckLive> i did also not found infos about this particular function
[11:06:23] <jdh> I have an entry in my pport machine. I assume stepconf put it in for me.
[11:08:14] <pcw_home> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_parallel_port.html
[11:08:16] <pcw_home> seems to suggest that 1 for steplen on 0 for stepspace is OK if using reset mode
[11:09:31] <IchGuckLive> jdh: what is the number
[11:10:04] <jdh> setp parport.0.reset-time 2000
[11:10:19] <IchGuckLive> i added 5000
[11:10:19] <jdh> (U32) parport.<portnum>.reset-time -- The time (in nanoseconds) between a pin is set by write and reset by the reset function if it is enabled.
[11:11:47] <IchGuckLive> maybe i shoudt set up the hole mashine new with a higher linuxcnc version
[11:14:18] <pcw_home> IchGuckLive: if you dont need 5 usec I would reduce the reset time to the minimum as the PC just spins during that time
[11:17:40] <pcw_home> (so you will slow the PC for other tasks if you waste time spinning in the reset function)
[11:20:03] <IchGuckLive> i just edit the hal and in i to get some of my friend to a better speed
[11:20:27] <IchGuckLive> i woudt have loved to get I-net access at that tiime but the garage where ofline
[11:34:41] <IchGuckLive> k by its X-mas festivity in tow n
[11:35:11] <IchGuckLive> Christ child is hedding to the church tower to set of the tree
[11:35:43] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. I command in position the exsternal axis with pid.x component, but for have ramp acc. and dec how can reailize it ?
[11:39:53] <pcw_home> limit3?
[11:40:58] <awallin> normal axes/joints will have limited speed and acceleration (from INI). spindle might need a limit2/3 block.
[11:42:17] <motioncontrol> i thing no, because i can connect it only on pid.x.command. example stay at position 0 pass new postiton 100 at limit 3 , it ramp in acc , but not in decc.
[11:42:52] <pcw_home> limit3 does both
[11:43:46] <motioncontrol> yes buf if you change the target position , but you set only one position 0 -> 43
[11:44:26] <motioncontrol> limit 3 is ok if i have 0->100 and 100 ->0
[11:44:49] <motioncontrol> but when command a axis i command only one targhet position
[11:45:44] <motioncontrol> limit component is good for spindle acc and dec
[11:45:51] <awallin> I'm not sure I follow... A-axis should have limits on acc and speed in the INI. In g-code the feedrate may be given in 'inverse time' format?
[11:45:52] <motioncontrol> but not for position
[11:46:38] <motioncontrol> for axis declare in ini is kinematic at create acc and dec i thing
[11:46:52] <pcw_home> Not sure what the problem is you should be able to dynamically change the .in value and limit3 should do its best to follow with violating its limits
[11:47:03] <pcw_home> without
[11:47:28] <motioncontrol> trajectory generator create ramp
[11:47:31] <pcw_home> if it does not do this either your hal file or limit3 have a bug
[11:48:34] <pcw_home> limit 3 creates a trapezoidal profile just as the trajectory generator does
[11:49:07] <motioncontrol> a axis declare in ini, when commanded in position first accel , after decel
[11:49:32] <pcw_home> (if you are using the trajectory generator (normal axis) you dont need limit3
[11:50:06] <motioncontrol> with limit 3 you can only acc , for dec you change again targhet position , it not is correct
[11:50:55] <motioncontrol> i want use pid component for exsternal axis not declare in ini file
[11:50:59] <pcw_home> If that true, ita a bug in limit3
[11:51:08] <pcw_home> its
[11:52:26] <pcw_home> are you saying that if you change the endpoint, limit 3 violates the acceleration limit?
[11:53:19] <motioncontrol> the problem is end point, not have dec.
[11:53:49] <pcw_home> how are you setting the target position (not with the limits I hope)
[11:54:11] <motioncontrol> limit is ok for spindle . example : spindle is stop, now m3 s100 have ramp acc, now m3 s10 have ramp dec
[11:54:12] <skunkworks> I don't know how the limit could know if you change the end point on the fly.. Say if you go from 10mm to 5 and it is already almost to 5..
[11:54:52] <skunkworks> it could be in the cruise phase - then if you change the endpoint to something that would require a faster de-acceleration than what is set.
[11:54:53] <pcw_home> it should always do the best it can under its contraints and current endpoint
[11:55:10] <pcw_home> otherwise it is broken
[11:55:31] <skunkworks> oh - I see - it should shoot past the end point...
[11:55:37] <pcw_home> yes
[11:57:59] <pcw_home> motioncontrol: limit3 should do what you want either you are using it wrong or it has a bug that should be fixed
[11:58:42] <skunkworks> I am using limit 3 for the z axis temp offset.. but I am only moving .005" ;)
[12:00:19] <pcw_home> It really does not seem likely that such a big bug has been missed
[12:00:21] <pcw_home> motioncontrol: do you only see the problem if you change the endpoint when in motion?
[12:00:35] <motioncontrol> thing at exsternal linear axis . now stay at 0 position.want targhet 100. ok pass 100 at limit 3 and it ramp on pid.x.command . pid rad ramp and executed it, this is ok. now you thing the targhet is very long, the axis after some second have velocity costant and arrived at targhet 100 position. The pid output fast is 0, not have ramp on limit some second first the targhet position. i thing limit approch not is corre
[12:00:36] <motioncontrol> ct
[12:00:59] <motioncontrol> yes the problem is motion in end position
[12:01:28] <pcw_home> that is limit,N.in?
[12:02:15] <skunkworks> sounds like the acc is set incorrectly...
[12:02:44] <pcw_home> do yo have enough headroom ion the position limits? (they should be larger than the actual travel)
[12:03:41] <motioncontrol> if use pid component only is good for control temperature on m19 spindle , but no for move a axis
[12:04:24] <motioncontrol> the command the pid is problem, because only a traject generator can calculate the ramp and velocity
[12:04:37] <pcw_home> false limit 3 does
[12:05:27] <motioncontrol> exist in emc another approch , thing loadrt another kinematict or another trajactory generator ?
[12:05:33] <pcw_home> thats is thats one of its purposes, to do a acceleration limited trajectory
[12:06:35] <pcw_home> limit3 should work
[12:08:00] <pcw_home> motioncontrol: are you saying that even if you do not change the endpoint (limit3.N,in) in motion, that limit3 does not generate a trapezoidal motion profile?
[12:08:23] <motioncontrol> no not ganerate it
[12:09:20] <pcw_home> then there is a bug but this is surprising since that is exactly what limit3 is supposed to do
[12:10:16] <pcw_home> Are you sure you have .min and .max set OK and not changed (you should only change .in)
[12:10:37] <motioncontrol> limit fuction thinking not is generate trapezoidal motion, but only acc and dec, but for this you change two value, 0-100 acc , 100-0 dec
[12:11:06] <motioncontrol> motion condition is only 0-100
[12:11:13] <pcw_home> what? limit has no such pins
[12:12:11] <pcw_home> limit3s pins are in.out,load,min.max.maxv,maxa
[12:12:22] <motioncontrol> limit have limit value pin and pin input variable and output pin variable control
[12:12:41] <motioncontrol> yes ok for pin
[12:13:32] <pcw_home> please use the pin names from the limit3 component otherwise its hard to know if we are talking about the same thing
[12:15:25] <motioncontrol> min.max.maxv and maxa are pinf for parameter the limit for select limit plus and minus and response the acc and dec
[12:15:27] <motioncontrol> now
[12:15:59] <motioncontrol> the pin input is input value the variable targhet
[12:16:29] <motioncontrol> the pin output is variable calculate with acc and dec.
[12:16:49] <pcw_home> and .in the only one you should be changing for a trapezoidal profile
[12:17:01] <motioncontrol> yes
[12:17:08] <motioncontrol> but
[12:17:31] <pcw_home> and the min and max are untouched and larger than you travel?
[12:18:05] <motioncontrol> yes is limit min and max the output
[12:18:58] <pcw_home> right so they should be larger than you full travel (and never changed)
[12:19:15] <motioncontrol> in limit when input increase have acc in output when decrease have dec in output
[12:21:39] <motioncontrol> for have a complete acc and dec i change first increase value and after decrease, change two value, for motion you have only one targhet command and if use limit you can have only acc, because in limit when you increase value after some secont output is egual at input and not decrease if you dont' decrease the input
[12:22:12] <pcw_home> Umm no
[12:26:27] <pcw_home> if i put a step input into limit3 (.in pin) it will generate a complete trapezoidal profile
[12:26:29] <pcw_home> (otherwise it violates then acceleration constraint)
[12:35:49] <pcw_home> so it output simply follows the input while obeying the acceleration and velocity limits
[12:40:45] <motioncontrol> what this step input ?
[12:45:26] <pcw_home> 0 one sample and 100 next (and 100 till limit3 is stable)
[12:47:17] <pcw_home> I'm not saying limit3 may not have a bug but looking at its code it does what the manual page says: that is its output follows its input and the velocity and acceleration constraints = trapezoidal profile
[12:48:38] <archivist> motioncontrol, write up a test case to show any fault you think there is
[12:49:52] <pcw_home> I guess I could do this in my sim install at home
[12:54:07] <motioncontrol> yes limit 3 fuction ok, but with 0-100 you have only acc, when stay arrived at endposition not have dec this is the problem.
[12:57:07] <pcw_home> limit3 is _not_ functioning OK if it does not decelerate with the same accel values as it accelerated
[14:06:23] <icee> hey all
[14:06:33] <icee> i need to control the speed of a single phase induction motor load.
[14:06:51] <icee> (not software control... just an appropriate drive to do so).
[14:07:12] <icee> i know router speed controls can be abused as slip-controls for induction loads but that's not really good.. and i know of /have used/ have found lots of 3 phase VFDs
[14:08:29] <archivist> better to change the motor
[14:08:34] <pcw_home> I you woudl be a lot better off to use a VFD and a 3 phase motor
[14:08:38] <pcw_home> Ha
[14:08:40] <icee> but.. any 1 phase VFD or similar that could fulfill the task out there? seems hard to find. load is a 120V 1HP 2pole induction motor
[14:08:54] <icee> yah, i'm not going to re-engineer the shitty blower i'm trying to slow down
[14:09:42] <pcw_home> how big a motor?
[14:09:53] <archivist> induction motors have a false phase to create the rotating field, just change the motor to 3ph and use a vfd
[14:10:20] <archivist> it may over heat if you try to slow it down
[14:11:09] <pcw_home> You _might_ be able to slow a shaded pole motor but less likely to be able with a motor with a starting winding
[14:12:07] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: you were 100% with your edit of my hal file
[14:12:23] <icee> pcw_home: before, i've cheated and .. started similar motors at full speed and slowed them down
[14:12:28] <icee> which i know is naughty
[14:12:48] <pcw_home> Yeah but its all pretty iffy
[14:13:57] <Aero-Tec> the encoder wire was moved from a lower position to a higher one and had oil on it, the oil ran down the wire and onto the opto encoder so it stopped working
[14:14:31] <pcw_home> drip loop FTW
[14:15:44] <munktell> Is it possible to get the current dynamic tool offset set with g43.1 from any parameter? Want to use it in a sub as a variabler.
[14:16:16] <JT-Shop> have you read this http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/overview.html
[14:16:58] <Aero-Tec> skunkworks: thanks a million for your help, the spindle speed indicator is now rock solid, the debounce worked like a charm
[14:17:55] <munktell> Yes, this is not lister as a parameter. You can get tool offset from tool table from parameter, but not the g43.1 ofset
[14:20:27] <JT-Shop> g43.1 just adds to the current offset
[14:23:06] <munktell> Yes, but I need to know the offset before i do a g49. Its for a M6 remap thingy
[14:23:35] <JT-Shop> the current tool offset?
[14:24:30] <Aero-Tec> I was just thinking, there should be a place where code can be posted for INI and HAL and any other things that is EMC related.
[14:24:52] <munktell> Yes, men not the offset from tool table, The dynamic offset
[14:24:56] <Aero-Tec> a resource area that one can have there code posted
[14:25:51] <JT-Shop> if you programmed the dynamic offset you should know what it is
[14:26:15] <Aero-Tec> have a email address where one can send the code and then have someone look at it and put in into the library of code and snippets
[14:26:48] <Aero-Tec> just a thought, or does this already exist?
[14:27:59] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to have a location one can go to to see how others dealt with some problem or how they did some amazing thing with EMC
[14:28:22] <munktell> Hmmm, yes. But it's in a M6 remap sub, and I can not be sure no-one have set a new g43.1 between the sub is executed
[14:28:25] <JT-Shop> wiki seems to be the collection spot and the forum
[14:28:52] <Aero-Tec> after awhile most things would be covered and be less work for the guru's here on the forum
[14:29:36] <Aero-Tec> the forum would be ton of searching, not even sure how one could or would search the forum for info
[14:30:05] <pcw_home> one thing that helps is browsing other hal files
[14:30:55] <pcw_home> the forum search works OK (used to be broken but seems OK after the forum software upgrade)
[14:31:17] <Aero-Tec> and the wiki is cool and very help full, but I did not see a good code example for debounce, little on debounce code for a spindle, little on debounce code for a spindle with just one index input
[14:32:34] <Aero-Tec> I am sure someone else will need to do just what I did and there is no real place to look for that code
[14:32:39] <pcw_home> well you have to generalize component usage to see the power of hal
[14:32:40] <munktell> I could save the z position before g49 and then restore the z pos to that after the g49. Would work
[14:32:55] <Aero-Tec> so one can search the forum now?
[14:32:58] <Aero-Tec> cool
[14:33:02] <pcw_home> sure
[14:33:13] <Aero-Tec> still leaves things scattered and spread out
[14:34:50] <Aero-Tec> also I am looking for a way to shut down EMC and and have it start up using the exact zeroing it had when shut down
[14:35:33] <Aero-Tec> like t1, I zero t1 and all tools are zeroed off of t1
[14:35:59] <Aero-Tec> so now I have to put t1 to z0x0
[14:36:11] <Aero-Tec> then shut down, start up
[14:36:30] <Aero-Tec> move the jog to dead dead dead slow
[14:37:59] <Aero-Tec> jog the z towards the chuck just like I did to go to zero, and x towards -x just like when it went to zero, home it and zero it
[14:38:10] <Aero-Tec> is there a quicker and better way?
[14:39:12] <Aero-Tec> the jogging is to over come back lash, I have the backlash turned on and set
[14:39:51] <Aero-Tec> but have to set jog to slow so it will not move the axis but will set the back lash in the right direction
[14:40:02] <pcw_home> you dont have home switches?
[14:40:07] <Aero-Tec> no
[14:40:10] <Aero-Tec> not yet
[14:40:19] <Aero-Tec> it is a lathe
[14:40:31] <Aero-Tec> not sure where I would put them
[14:40:43] <Aero-Tec> I have like 5 chucks I use
[14:41:13] <pcw_home> that would be the standard way, though they work better with servo than step motors since you have th eindex
[14:41:34] <Aero-Tec> the collet chuck is in very tight and if I have a big 3 or 6 jaw in there I can not get to the home for the collet chuck
[14:41:57] <Aero-Tec> I have servos on the lathe
[14:42:04] <Aero-Tec> not the spindle
[14:42:09] <pcw_home> a home switch can be anywhwre
[14:42:23] <Aero-Tec> ?
[14:42:30] <Aero-Tec> really?
[14:42:33] <Aero-Tec> cool
[14:42:37] <pcw_home> It could be in the middle of travel
[14:42:54] <Aero-Tec> so throw a switch anywhere?
[14:43:00] <pcw_home> Yeah
[14:43:10] <Aero-Tec> cool, could not do that with mach
[14:43:18] <pcw_home> home/=limit
[14:43:24] <Aero-Tec> had to be a the end
[14:43:44] <pcw_home> theres a home offset
[14:44:17] <Aero-Tec> so that would be the + and - limit that is in the INI
[14:44:33] <Aero-Tec> ok
[14:45:05] <Aero-Tec> I may just have to put some in
[14:45:16] <Aero-Tec> what are the best ones to use?
[14:45:34] <Aero-Tec> optos can get junk in them
[14:45:54] <Aero-Tec> hal effects can get metal suck to them
[14:46:37] <Aero-Tec> micro switches look to be the best but not sure if they are accurate enough
[14:46:58] <pcw_home> not sure its a compromise (inductive are tough but inaccurate)
[14:47:41] <Aero-Tec> thought the hal effect switches were dead accurate
[14:47:55] <pcw_home> I think people are getting close to 1 mill repeatability with microswitches
[14:47:59] <Aero-Tec> they have such a good response time
[14:48:44] <pcw_home> I dont think you can get 1 mill without a pretty exotic Hall device
[14:48:52] <pcw_home> but maybe
[14:48:53] <Aero-Tec> only thing is if metal chips get near them it can mess things up
[14:49:09] <pcw_home> Yep
[14:49:23] <Aero-Tec> and there is no limit or end to metal chips in a cnc
[14:50:09] <pcw_home> Normally with servos, 2 step homing is done (first to switch and then to index)
[14:50:37] <pcw_home> so only +- .1" switch accuracy is needed
[14:50:58] <pcw_home> (assuming 5TPI ballscrew)
[14:51:22] <Aero-Tec> will have to think on a switch, something that will not wear fast, and no leavers for chips to get into and bind up
[14:52:39] <Aero-Tec> that would be if the servos are driven by EMC
[14:52:59] <Aero-Tec> mine are servos but controlled by gecko, so step and dir
[14:53:40] <Aero-Tec> there is no index ether
[14:53:53] <pcw_home> yeah no homing on index is a disadvantage
[14:54:09] <Aero-Tec> I can install new optos with index
[14:55:37] <pcw_home> it _might_ be doable with the gecko but theres no direct support for this (using index with a step.dir drive)
[14:56:01] <Aero-Tec> I guess if I had a index from each axis, one could work from that even with step and dir
[14:57:24] <Aero-Tec> so, back to the problem so, what home switches would be best for my system?
[14:57:46] <pcw_home> currently index feeds into the encoder component so its a little awkward
[14:58:38] <Aero-Tec> right now my axis have no index
[14:58:52] <Aero-Tec> just the spindle, and it only has index
[14:59:32] <pcw_home> probably better asked on the LinuxCNC users mailing list to reach a larger number of machine builders that have experience with homing switches
[14:59:35] <Aero-Tec> I started with a shoe string, and no cnc experience at all
[14:59:59] <Aero-Tec> there is a mailing list?
[15:00:04] <Aero-Tec> how do you get on it?
[15:00:24] <Aero-Tec> thought this was the place to be for EMC
[15:00:47] <pcw_home> theres the forum and the mailing list as well
[15:02:47] <pcw_home> if you go to linuxcnc.org then select 'community '
[15:02:49] <pcw_home> the first link is a form to sign up to the mailing list
[15:05:18] <Aero-Tec> cool, thanks
[15:05:35] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: so it works?
[15:05:49] <Aero-Tec> like a charm
[15:05:58] <Aero-Tec> your a EMC wiz
[15:06:28] <Aero-Tec> it was some oil on the opto that made it not work, your code was perfect
[15:06:37] <skunkworks> great!
[15:06:49] <Aero-Tec> thanks again for the help
[15:13:49] <Aero-Tec> well I am now on the mailing list as well
[15:14:17] <Aero-Tec> both user and developer
[15:14:36] <Aero-Tec> is there a way to better understand the HAL programming?
[15:14:58] <Aero-Tec> I have done programming so know some things about coding
[15:15:15] <skunkworks> it is more of a virtual wiring scheme
[15:15:18] <Aero-Tec> but I am not understanding HAL, yet
[15:15:56] <Aero-Tec> I hope to be well versed in HAL programming at some point, soon I hope
[15:16:16] <skunkworks> the more you do it - the better you get :)
[15:16:22] <Aero-Tec> lol
[15:17:33] <Aero-Tec> for sure, but right now I feel more like a deer in the headlights of a train the there are black things on ether side of me....LOL
[15:18:39] <Aero-Tec> not sure where to start with HAL programming, is there a youtube vid or something
[15:18:48] <Aero-Tec> HAL programming 101
[15:20:03] <JT-Shop> the manual has a hal 101
[15:20:14] <Aero-Tec> I have read some of the wiki, but it does not really fill in the blanks for me
[15:20:25] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/intro.html
[15:20:44] <Aero-Tec> will look for it and reread it if I have not read it all ready
[15:22:13] <Aero-Tec> is there a hal programming tool of sorts?
[15:23:09] <Aero-Tec> I was reading somewhere and it looked to me as if there was some sort of thing one can load into the gui that would allow one to do some hal programming
[15:24:40] <skunkworks> people have worked on that... but I don't thing there is any that works 100%
[15:24:47] <Aero-Tec> one very cool thing about EMC is it can do so much and is so versatile, the over whelming thing about EMC is it can do so much and is so versatil
[15:25:38] <Aero-Tec> maybe I can code some tools
[15:26:01] <Aero-Tec> first I need to figure it out
[15:26:50] <pcw_home> Its the differece between a configuration lanquage and selecting items on a menu
[15:26:52] <pcw_home> a language is much more flexible and powerful but has a steeper learning curve
[15:27:05] <Aero-Tec> maybe a open source tool set for EMC, complete, setting up of a machine, something more complete then the wiz
[15:28:31] <Aero-Tec> mach was selecting, quick and easy to learn, but was VERY limited
[15:30:29] <Aero-Tec> I like the configuration of EMC, but your right the learning curve is steep, more so if your running a company and your the only guy in the company, LOL no others to hand work off to, if I do not do it it does not get done
[15:30:49] <pcw_home> Even with a helpful GUI, understanding the configuration language frees you from the limits of what the GUI writer imagined were rasonable choices
[15:31:09] <pcw_home> reasonable
[15:31:12] <Aero-Tec> hard to find the time to learn with out interruptions
[15:32:04] <Aero-Tec> true
[15:32:17] <Aero-Tec> I do love EMC
[15:32:20] <pcw_home> but yes for one time use LinuxCNC setup can be daunting
[15:32:21] <Aero-Tec> it is very cool
[15:33:48] <Aero-Tec> so back to, I have no home switches and would love to have EMC shut down and start up and be exactly where it was when shut down
[15:34:08] <Aero-Tec> for zero of axis
[15:34:23] <Aero-Tec> for a given tool
[15:34:57] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You here?
[15:35:01] <Aero-Tec> I have a system and it seams to work,but takes some time
[15:35:19] <Aero-Tec> lots of steps and easy to mess up
[15:35:49] <Aero-Tec> also can one set up joging in mid program run
[15:37:07] <Aero-Tec> I have a case where I sometime get some tool chatter and would like to halt and recut that cut manualy
[15:38:33] <Aero-Tec> jogging is locked out during program run, and I like that, but would be nice to have a gcode that would unlock it for one small bit of code and then relock it
[15:39:36] <Aero-Tec> any help with ether of the problems?
[15:42:36] <pcw_home> Probably need JT or some other gcode maven
[15:53:03] <pcw_home> Well I can't duplicate motioncontrol's problem with limit3, it works as advertsed
[15:57:39] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:19:57] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: look at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html#_traj_section_a_id_sub_traj_section_a
[16:20:37] <skunkworks> specifically POSITION_FILE = position.txt
[16:21:23] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I think he was changing the accelleration on the fly...
[16:21:34] <skunkworks> That would be my guess
[16:23:30] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: you cannot jog during a program run
[16:24:12] <Aero-Tec> to bad
[16:24:18] <Aero-Tec> I can see why not
[16:24:42] <Aero-Tec> but would be cool to be able to make a small window where you could
[16:25:08] <Aero-Tec> some gcode or m code or something
[16:25:32] <Aero-Tec> just for the extra tweak from time to time
[16:26:20] <Aero-Tec> the tubing I have to use to make a part is not consistent, so sometime it chatters and most of the time it does not
[16:26:56] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to knock the tops off the chatter for the times it does chatter
[16:28:41] <skunkworks> Aero-Tec: did you see the 'POSITION_FILE = position.txt'
[16:28:53] <Aero-Tec> was just going to it
[16:29:58] <Aero-Tec> cool
[16:30:04] <Aero-Tec> just what I needed
[16:30:09] <Aero-Tec> thanks again
[16:30:56] <Aero-Tec> I will set it up, would that file path be the config dir for the running config?
[16:31:09] <skunkworks> I think so..
[16:31:23] <skunkworks> I don't think you need a path - and it puts it where it should
[16:31:24] <Aero-Tec> will find out soon enough
[16:31:30] <skunkworks> :)
[16:31:49] <Aero-Tec> I feel like I should be sending you money or something
[16:32:03] <Aero-Tec> you have been so helpful
[16:33:34] <skunkworks> heh - no
[16:33:53] <skunkworks> pay it forward....
[16:34:16] <skunkworks> spread the word... ;)
[16:34:37] <Aero-Tec> just expressing my gratitude, and would gladly have sent some money if you had asked for some
[16:34:48] <Aero-Tec> will do, I can do that
[16:34:55] <Aero-Tec> both
[16:37:11] <Aero-Tec> any ideas on dealing with chatter?
[16:38:19] <Aero-Tec> I have a 0.005 per rev infeed, 3 in .25 wall pipe, inside cut for O ring
[16:39:19] <Aero-Tec> have tried different hold times for end of cut, ut to long and you have short quick chatter
[16:39:36] <Aero-Tec> not long enough and you can have long deep chatter
[16:40:06] <Aero-Tec> boring bar is as short as possible
[16:40:34] <pcw_home> skunkworks: not sure but motonworks seemed to say that it stopped instantly at the end point
[16:40:36] <pcw_home> and thats not what I get (it does a trapezodal velocity, parabolic position profile)
[16:40:55] <Aero-Tec> 6061 tubing, with aluminum cutter fluid
[16:42:18] <Aero-Tec> it does not always chatter, most of the time it is good, or only very slight
[16:43:23] <Aero-Tec> this is where a variable speed spindle would come in very handy
[17:19:50] <tjb1> Anyone else having trouble posting on cnczone?
[17:44:36] <tjb1> Anyone at a computer with mastercam?
[17:47:35] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[17:51:42] <Aero-Tec> I have it but not set up yet
[17:52:04] <Aero-Tec> I could get it up and running if needed
[17:52:23] <tjb1> I need a mcx file converted, guess that wont do any good :)
[17:52:24] <Aero-Tec> what are you needing done?
[17:53:12] <Aero-Tec> what are you wanting it converted to?
[17:53:16] <tjb1> dwg
[17:53:37] <Aero-Tec> can try
[17:53:47] <icee> that's the opposite direction than you usually go
[17:53:47] <icee> ;)
[17:54:16] <Aero-Tec> true, but it may work
[17:54:18] <tjb1> Actually I got it now, friend was having trouble but he got it to me :)
[17:54:30] <Aero-Tec> cool
[17:54:38] <Aero-Tec> glad you got it
[17:54:57] <Aero-Tec> so did master cam do the conversion?
[17:55:14] <Aero-Tec> or did he use something else to convert it for you
[17:56:08] <tjb1> probably just saved it as dwg
[18:00:00] <Aero-Tec> I should install it, had it running on my old computer, I may still have it there, but have not used it much so have not gotten around to installing it here
[18:01:41] <tjb1> I was going to cut the school mascot thing for everyone in my senior project class…not going to work
[18:04:23] <Aero-Tec> I have art programs for converting pix and art to a 3D cnc gcode
[18:04:30] <Aero-Tec> if that would help
[18:05:04] <Aero-Tec> all I would need is a pix or graphic and I can convert it for you
[18:05:17] <tjb1> No, its just the way it is, wont be able to cut it with plasma
[18:05:33] <tjb1> scaled up to 8.5"x8.5" there are still sections with only .023 between them
[18:05:44] <Aero-Tec> master cam should do the same thing I would think, have not used it much
[18:06:40] <Aero-Tec> ok for a plasma, I was thinking mill
[18:07:17] <Aero-Tec> 3D relief
[18:08:07] <Aero-Tec> one could edit out or move the fine detail around some
[18:08:39] <tjb1> I know…its not really that mascot if I edit all that out
[18:08:40] <Aero-Tec> do a more impressionist version of it
[18:08:59] <Aero-Tec> do you have a pix of it?
[18:09:04] <Aero-Tec> would like to see it
[18:09:49] <tjb1> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/Screen%20Shot%202012-12-02%20at%206.56.57%20PM.png
[18:13:54] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You here?
[18:16:28] <tjb1> pcw_home: ?
[18:16:47] <Aero-Tec> the one eye is the only problem I can see
[18:18:25] <Aero-Tec> one could cut it out and spot weld it to a backing plate
[18:19:33] <tjb1> I dont want to cut them at 8.5
[18:19:37] <tjb1> I wanted to do it at like 3" :)
[18:21:08] <Aero-Tec> it looked cool anyway
[18:21:14] <Aero-Tec> thanks for sharing
[18:28:20] <mrpostman> Can Anyone here give me a hand with getting my cnc router to respond to emc2
[18:35:15] <r00t4rd3d> more infos
[18:35:22] <r00t4rd3d> what controller?
[18:36:39] <r00t4rd3d> what kinda computer are you trying to use and how are you connecting the controller to the pc ?
[18:37:55] <mrpostman> I am useing a dell computer coneccted via parallel cable
[18:38:24] <mrpostman> i am not sure of what controller it is
[18:42:53] <andypugh> You bought the router fully assembled?
[18:43:04] <mrpostman> yes
[18:43:19] <andypugh> Did it come with any documentation?
[18:44:05] <mrpostman> yes and no has all the info to get it running in mach3 but that about it
[18:44:41] <andypugh> OK, that should be enough.
[18:45:09] <mrpostman> i thought so too
[18:45:10] <andypugh> That tells you which p-port pin each signal is on.
[18:45:35] <andypugh> So, how is it manifesting non-working-ness?
[18:45:55] <andypugh> (There are so many ways to not work, after all)
[18:45:56] <mrpostman> yes. I have done all that in linuxCNC but they dont move
[18:46:36] <andypugh> Do the DRO numbers on the screen move?
[18:46:43] <mrpostman> I am thinking that my parallel port is not active but dont know enough about linux to make it work
[18:46:46] <mrpostman> yes
[18:47:01] <andypugh> Has the router ever worked?
[18:47:22] <mrpostman> yes it works just fine in mach3
[18:47:36] <andypugh> On the same computer?
[18:47:40] <mrpostman> yes
[18:48:05] <andypugh> You used the same parport base-address for both?
[18:48:32] <mrpostman> i dont know?
[18:49:07] <andypugh> I don't even know if Mach needs to be told the parallel port address.
[18:49:34] <tjb1> Yes
[18:49:43] <andypugh> Are you familiar with command-line stuff?
[18:49:58] <mrpostman> some what
[18:50:12] <andypugh> cat /proc/ioports
[18:50:27] <andypugh> should list the parallel port and its address
[18:51:30] <mrpostman> ok i see it 0378-037a
[18:52:07] <andypugh> 0x378 is standard, so looks right. Is that what you used in stepconf?
[18:52:23] <mrpostman> i have 2 parports though both are parport0
[18:52:31] <mrpostman> yes
[18:52:55] <andypugh> They can't both be parport0.
[18:53:17] <tjb1> I think that is what its telling him with cat /proc/ioports
[18:53:21] <tjb1> Did it for me too
[18:53:50] <andypugh> 0x378 and 0x37a are (I think) different elements of the same port
[18:54:00] <mrpostman> one is 0378-037a and 0778-077a both say parport0
[18:54:15] <andypugh> Oh. Colour me puzzled.
[18:58:08] <tjb1> This is mine - loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out 0xdf30 out "
[18:58:38] <andypugh> Did you right the HAL bu hand, or using stepconf?
[18:59:41] <mrpostman> i got it i think steppers are responding now
[18:59:43] <andypugh> I mean to say, of course: Did you write the HAL by hand or by use of Stepconf.
[19:00:01] <andypugh> amp-enable?
[19:01:09] <mrpostman> stepconf
[19:03:46] <mrpostman> whats amp-enable?
[19:04:11] <mrpostman> and what pin should that be on
[19:12:37] <tjb1> Does your controller have a chargepump?