#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-30

[01:07:16] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:35:51] <Jymmm> cradek: SWPadnos archivist pcw_home alex_joni You guys and your fancy motor drivers... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQcg4nBlVMk&feature=youtu.be
[02:11:22] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:13:09] <Jymmm> Use coupon THX12 at checkout to get FREE ground shipping and SAVE 10% off all motor controls! http://www.geckodrive.com/
[07:49:09] <jthornton> http://www.connecticuthackerspace.com/content/emc2-keyboard-shortcut-labels
[09:54:00] <Theta9> i was going to get a g540, but now that i look at the price of mesa cards
[09:54:22] <Theta9> i could get 5I25 and 7I78 for cheaper than the g540
[09:54:32] <Theta9> what do you guys think?
[09:54:39] <JT-Shop> g540's do have some issues
[09:55:08] <Theta9> the EPP stuff?
[09:57:42] <pcw_home> The 5I25 _will_ drive the G540 chargepump if thats an issue
[09:58:46] <Theta9> ahh the 5I25 + 7I76/8 is not a complete system, still need heavy motor drivers in ther
[09:59:22] <pcw_home> The 7I76/7I78 are just (glorified) breakouts
[09:59:51] <pcw_home> you still need step motor drive
[10:00:20] <Theta9> can you recommend something?
[10:00:22] <pcw_home> but the 5I25 will drive the G540 directly
[10:00:41] <Theta9> so will a regular parallel port
[10:00:52] <pcw_home> not at 100 KHz
[10:01:26] <Theta9> can the g540 even operate outside the realm of pc parallel ports?
[10:01:47] <pcw_home> absolutely
[10:04:00] <pcw_home> It depends of course on what is limiting max speed but we have customers that
[10:04:02] <pcw_home> have seen 40% to 100% speed improvements when going to a hardware step generator
[10:06:59] <pcw_home> This is for 2 main reasons:
[10:07:01] <pcw_home> 1. There is no practical upper bound on step rate
[10:07:02] <pcw_home> 2. step rates have lower jitter
[10:07:04] <pcw_home> (if you are running the software stepgen at 1/2 full speed the jitter is 50%!)
[10:07:07] <Theta9> so the g540 is the recommended driver?
[10:08:51] <pcw_home> Really depends on your motors and expectations (I think the G640 is 3.5A and 50V max)
[10:09:06] <pcw_home> g540 I mean
[10:09:48] <Theta9> currently my setup uses a cheap chinese controller and a 24v power supply
[10:09:53] <Theta9> ;D
[10:11:09] <pcw_home> So thats likely your bottle neck and a parallel port and decent MB may be more than it can handle anyway
[10:13:34] <Theta9> alright, i'll get the g540
[10:18:56] <pcw_home> That would be a good first step (though you will want a 48V PS)
[10:21:46] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[11:55:43] <andypugh> I have done it again. Why do things always look smaller on eBay?
[11:56:03] <archivist> waht waht
[11:57:30] <andypugh> A job lot of tooling. I thought it was 30 and 40, but it is 40 and 50. A mix of BT and INT, with a few HSK thrown in.
[11:58:59] <archivist> 50 is not small :) I have a 50 sized probe here
[11:59:57] <andypugh> The big one at the end is a BT50. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SELECTION-OF-LATHE-TOOL-HOLDERS-33-IN-TOTAL-/140889925131?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&nma=true&si=PQpYFLIAvsBr4Fk6DPdQbZ4pUy4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[12:00:59] <andypugh> They are probably worth £1 each just as high quality steel blanks.
[12:01:05] <archivist> he had a yard rule in the picture!
[12:01:28] <andypugh> Yes, I failed to scale it.
[12:01:45] <cradek> I don't remember noticing the yardstick either, haha
[12:01:58] <andypugh> There is a Lushinton boring head (though not in great shape) in there.
[12:03:36] <andypugh> I suspect that I could put them all back on eBay for a profit.
[12:14:31] <andypugh> So, does anyone see anything they like the look of? It is all ex Landrover tooling, and somewhat specialised.
[12:16:14] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B9
[12:16:18] <archivist> my horizontal is size 35 an in between sod
[12:27:15] <IchGuckLive> archivist: and what is the problem with that
[12:27:56] <archivist> IchGuckLive, have you ever seen iso35 for sale
[12:28:37] <IchGuckLive> archivist: d you got a DIN number
[12:29:17] <archivist> they did not have din numbers in 1945
[12:29:21] <IchGuckLive> Natural Rubber is iso 35
[12:29:58] <IchGuckLive> dandelion is also iso 35
[12:30:01] <archivist> you come in the channel and jump in without working out what we are talking about
[12:30:23] <IchGuckLive> there is no talk so i waited 5min befor i asked
[12:42:00] <tjb1> Calm down fellas
[12:42:38] * archivist throws a bukket over tjb1 :)
[12:42:56] <tjb1> Whats a bukket? :P
[12:42:58] <tjb1> We only have buckets
[12:47:55] <andypugh> So, you have an indeterminate tapir?
[12:48:46] <andypugh> (the Motor Club always use the phrase "morose tapir" to describe the ends of some drills :-)
[12:50:39] <archivist> the last tapir http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Tables/Clarkson1.htm
[12:50:48] <L84Supper> what's everyone's favorite tool for cutting thick aluminum t-slot and bar up to 1/2" (12mm) ?
[12:51:26] <L84Supper> without having to clean up the ends with a mill or a mess of wax/lube before welding
[12:52:15] <L84Supper> 12" non-ferrous titanium circular saw?
[12:52:34] <andypugh> archivist: BT35 exists: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[12:52:43] <tjb1> L84Supper: http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/39419_lg.jpg
[12:53:31] <andypugh> L84Supper: I use the only tool I have. And that is my cordless circular saw.
[12:53:56] <L84Supper> tjb1: what blade?
[12:53:59] <andypugh> (with the original wood blade)
[12:54:07] <archivist> andypugh, I am making (slowly) an adapter so I can use 30 size
[12:54:27] <tjb1> L84Supper: Thats a saw made to cut metal, its a Dewalt 14" multicutter
[12:54:46] <tjb1> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_48565_48565
[12:55:23] <tjb1> Blades for it are ~$100
[12:55:28] <andypugh> There are a few of them now. The only real difference is that the blades have nubs so you can't cut too much per tooth.
[12:56:28] <andypugh> Nothing like that expensive: http://www.screwfix.com/p/evolution-rage-multipurpose-blade-210mm/58779
[12:57:36] <andypugh> You can have the whole tool for £100: http://www.screwfix.com/p/evolution-rage3b2101-210mm-compound-mitre-saw-110v/30069
[12:58:18] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: this saw are going cheepper and chepper
[12:58:36] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4TbyNlsUWs
[12:58:37] <tjb1> Silly pounds and metric...
[12:59:08] <tjb1> andypugh: thats only a 8.25 blade
[12:59:20] <tjb1> The dewalt uses a 14"
[12:59:31] <andypugh> And the requirement was to cut 1/2" / 12mm material?
[12:59:37] <L84Supper> I'm looking to buy or build something with a adjustable digital end stop
[12:59:49] <tjb1> andypugh: hush :)
[13:00:24] <tjb1> If you are going to spend that money for the saw, might as well get a bigger one
[13:00:52] <archivist> I believe my tinitus dates from the 1970's and DeWalt over arm saw and aluminium cutting
[13:01:03] <L84Supper> heh
[13:01:16] <archivist> 20" blade iirc
[13:01:44] <andypugh> L84Supper: Digital micrometer heads exist: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1667320&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-LISTINGS&gross_price=true&mckv=MGdGvzqH%7Cpcrid%7Cproductlistings
[13:02:21] <L84Supper> the Bosch t-slot disti uses a glorified 12" compound miter
[13:02:45] <L84Supper> andypugh: what will they think of next?
[13:02:46] <andypugh> But it would be significantly cheaper to buy a complete micrrometer and cut some off
[13:03:17] <L84Supper> I seem to be 7 pub hours behind you :)
[13:03:49] <andypugh> Not been anywhere near alcohol for night-on 14 hours!
[13:04:18] <L84Supper> nevermind then
[13:12:16] <andypugh> Which is the taper with a semi-cylindrical slot in the side?
[13:13:49] <toastyde1th> are you talking about on a shank or for lathe tooling
[13:14:08] <andypugh> On the shank.
[13:14:14] <IchGuckLive> lathe its VDI or HSK
[13:14:48] <toastyde1th> like, on an endmill?
[13:14:52] <andypugh> No, not those. Like a BT / CAT / NMTB / ISO but with a slot in the taper
[13:15:00] <toastyde1th> weird, i don't know sorry
[13:15:57] <archivist> cam lock, brown and sharpe iirc
[13:16:10] <toastyde1th> ohhhh
[13:16:18] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgiS54jd6WA
[13:16:34] <archivist> I have an example upstairs
[13:16:54] <toastyde1th> can you take a pic
[13:17:07] <toastyde1th> several screw machines and second op lathes have that kind of tooling and they're all semi-proprietary
[13:19:15] <archivist> this is a head with the fitting http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cincinnati-milacron-kearney-trecker-vn-usa-heavy-iron/new-accessory-my-brown-sharpe-2-mill-222480/
[13:20:13] <toastyde1th> wow, no idea
[13:20:31] <andypugh> toastyde1th: The very bottom one here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SELECTION-OF-LATHE-TOOL-HOLDERS-33-IN-TOTAL-/140889925131
[13:21:46] <toastyde1th> yeah, i've seen a lot of different types of tapers but never that one
[13:22:15] <andypugh> "Flash change" apparently
[13:25:59] <mrsun> archivist, oo scraped surfaces =)
[13:27:12] <archivist> andypugh, that looks a little different to the taper I know (and have used)
[13:28:47] <archivist> that seems to have some tang, there is no space for that in the BS socket here
[13:29:36] <andypugh> From reading, it seems that Flash Change 30 had no tang, but the 40 size could also be used in 40INT machines.
[13:31:25] <archivist> what I have here is a No 9 BS to 30 2" (as stamped)
[13:32:01] <andypugh> The good thing about standards is that there are so many of them....
[13:32:22] <toastyde1th> hahah xkcd
[13:32:32] <toastyde1th> "There are 15 standards! We need ONE STANDARD!"
[13:32:38] <toastyde1th> "New problem: there are 16 standards."
[13:41:44] <archivist> the holder I have http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_30_Buck_Hickman/
[13:46:11] <toastyde1th> that looks like a b&s toolholder for a single spindle screw machine
[13:46:35] <toastyde1th> but it's clearly not, given what it goes to
[13:47:39] <archivist> we had some of the endmills at the museum I used to volunteer at as we had a BS universal mill
[13:47:58] <archivist> buggers to get out sometimes
[13:51:15] <archivist> ew there is a thiel near me on ebay
[13:51:33] <archivist> 121029756238
[13:59:37] <andypugh> archivist: Is Santa feeling generous?
[14:00:38] <archivist> I wish
[14:02:37] <archivist> must nag a certain customer....
[14:10:15] <pcw_home> That looks like a pretty stout mill
[14:12:57] <andypugh> Thiel / Deckel / Aciera are all very lovely. They gain a fair bit of rigidity from using a sliding head for Y.
[14:13:38] <andypugh> And you will see that you are expected to stand to the side of the bed, not in front of it.
[14:13:47] <archivist> lazy seller 271110798037
[14:15:03] <andypugh> That's one like mine, but without the vertical head.
[14:16:19] <andypugh> I don't entirely understand the vertical slide (double-V)
[14:21:24] <archivist> I thought it was normal square ways on the vertical
[14:22:37] <andypugh> No, two Vs. Guaranteed never to quite work.
[14:22:58] <toastyde1th> difficult to scrape in but common on older, accurate machines
[14:23:16] <toastyde1th> ground double v's dont often work, scaped isn't usually a problem
[14:26:30] <archivist> my southbend has double v and I know it needs lotso work
[14:26:36] <toastyde1th> oh, yeah
[14:26:56] <toastyde1th> deckel is known as a pretty accurate brand, they were for pretty much the same amount of work no matter what they did
[14:27:17] <toastyde1th> southebend? not so much.
[14:27:18] <archivist> I think its low by 10 thou or more in the worn section
[14:27:22] <toastyde1th> haha jesus
[14:27:41] <archivist> just works though :)
[14:28:58] <archivist> I think I would have to add metal to the saddle before I started on it
[14:29:27] <toastyde1th> ususally what people do is scrape the saddle down to flat, scrape the bed flat, and then take whatever amount the drop was off the head and tailstock
[14:29:37] <toastyde1th> rather than try to shim or add stock and muck the whole deal up
[14:30:22] <archivist> if I took too much off the saddle then I might not match up to the leadscrew
[14:31:00] <toastyde1th> apron isn't in two parts?
[14:31:19] <toastyde1th> if you can't break the saddle and apron apart, you're boned
[14:31:38] <andypugh> Eccentric leadscrew bearings.
[14:32:22] <archivist> but should I rework the Schaublin instead when I have the time
[14:32:32] <archivist> about as worn
[14:33:35] <archivist> or just live with the errors and fiddle as needed
[14:34:19] <andypugh> A lathe needs to be pretty far-gone for it to actually matter.
[14:35:52] <archivist> very true, the southbend produces nice taper work as is
[14:39:47] <archivist> baby southbend in kent 121028903874
[14:45:20] <andypugh> Sweet. But I like my left-hand unsinged. US-pattern lathes are silly.
[14:49:24] <archivist> hmm time I painted mine all over, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1251.JPG
[15:03:25] <JT-Shop> damn laptop battery died after only 6 months... cheap china crap
[15:10:16] <L84Supper> JT-Shop: what brand laptop?
[15:10:24] <JT-Shop> hp
[15:10:41] <JT-Shop> dv2000
[15:11:26] <L84Supper> a few years ago they were the only batteries not recalled for spontaneous combustion
[15:12:56] <L84Supper> I had a HP notebook back then that worked great until I did a BIOS update, then the batteries started dying
[15:30:33] <Loetmichel> coincidence?
[16:32:39] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:57:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/hirobo-hx-1/
[20:09:57] <andypugh> jthornton_: I might have a metal-spinning project. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pYomg8CstFoxtFfEtJZyxNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:13:37] <andypugh> Thing is, this is a historical object, a ritual object even. I noticed it was in a mess when offered the underlying drinking vessel to quaff from at the 90th anniversary ball of the club. You take the gallon cup, bow to your left, bow to your right, he takes the lid, you drink. Bow left, bow right, he puts the lid back on, you pass the cup left. So, the lid sees quite some wear.
[20:17:02] <andypugh> The copper ring was added recently, and was not a great plan. It might have been OK soldered on, but it was just rolled in to what appears to be the original rim, stretched.
[20:31:44] <Valen> dont think pewter tigs andypugh
[20:31:56] <Valen> braising is the common answer i believe
[20:32:43] <andypugh> Soldering is conventional. But I woulf hate to melt the whole thing.
[20:33:10] <Valen> well before you start whats the end goal?
[20:33:44] <andypugh> To make it not look broken, and survive 100 more years.
[20:33:59] <Valen> so what bit comes apart?
[20:34:14] <andypugh> ?
[20:34:20] <Valen> the crown part or the silver part away from the copper
[20:34:27] <Valen> i cant really make sense of the image
[20:34:49] <andypugh> it should be a single part, a lid with a locating rim.
[20:34:56] <Valen> Ahh
[20:35:13] <Valen> can you remake the underlying vessel or is that historic also?
[20:36:15] <andypugh> Much more so. It has the name of every President of the club since 1922 engraved on it.
[20:36:20] <Valen> ahh
[20:36:23] <Valen> hmm
[20:36:40] <Valen> I was thinking perhaps machine up a ring of a softer metal (perhaps) then glue it on to the bottom
[20:36:52] <Valen> that way theres no heat involved
[20:37:28] <Valen> softer than the cup tat is
[20:37:29] <andypugh> The lid is (currently) a lot thinner outside the concave curve
[20:38:09] <andypugh> Thing is, the lid gets dropped. The pot is full of beer and is rarely dropped.
[20:38:51] <Valen> dropping the beer is bad for ones health
[20:39:00] <andypugh> I could just turn a sturdy rim from solid pewter and solder it on.
[20:39:23] <Valen> I'd suggest glue, if your worried about heat
[20:39:40] <andypugh> Glue is unauthentic
[20:39:43] <Valen> there are some pretty nifty epoxies
[20:40:01] <Valen> any repair is unauthentic ;-> question is what will damage the underlying material the least
[20:40:11] <andypugh> Ideally I want people in the future to have no idea I ever did anything.
[20:40:14] <Valen> googling pewter, it basically *is* solder
[20:41:09] <Valen> so the temperature control is going to need to be neat
[20:41:41] <andypugh> Yes, a tin lead alloy where the lead preferentially dissolves into alcohol. It's the ideal drinking vessel material :-)
[20:41:49] <Valen> but of course!
[20:42:11] <Valen> spray epoxy line the inside of said cup? ;-> works for cans
[20:46:01] <andypugh> Actually, Wikipedia says that Lead is not a major constituent of pewter, and should be entirely absent from tablewares
[20:46:43] <Valen> current ones
[20:46:53] <Valen> seemed to indicate it may still be around
[20:47:05] <Valen> I'd be using a tin/lead solder though in the repair
[20:47:17] <Valen> mpt is like 220C vs the pewter at 260C
[20:47:30] <Valen> but I'd be really worried about it softening
[20:47:39] <andypugh> If you are drinking 12 pints of beer from a cup, worrying about lead seems inapppropriate
[20:48:18] <Valen> I use tin/lead for my plumbing ;-> I'm not that bothered
[20:48:28] <Valen> but if its easy to avoid, you may as well
[20:50:00] <andypugh> The lid barely touches the contents
[20:50:47] <Valen> you seem to be labouring under the impression i'm against tin/lead solder, I'm saying you must use it in order to not melt the pewter
[20:51:03] <andypugh> But it belongs to one of the worlds foremost technical universities. They can analyse it :-)
[20:51:27] <Valen> I wonder about using something like a woods metal alloy in place of solder
[20:51:51] <andypugh> I would prefer to TIG with an identcal material.
[21:22:17] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/gecko_drives/166870-designing_gecko_servo_system.html
[21:22:27] <skunkworks> logger[psha]:
[21:22:28] <logger[psha]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-12-01.html
[21:22:51] <skunkworks> hat a waste
[21:22:56] <skunkworks> what
[21:49:05] <pcw_home> Nick had endless troubles with our cards (blown up 5I20 and FPGA cards due to making their own bad cables.
[21:49:07] <pcw_home> running the 7I29s with no power supply capacitor etc etc) Glad to have him get "support' elsewhere
[21:49:42] <pcw_home> I should have said blown up 5I20 and 7I29
[22:18:55] <RoyOnWheels> any software to optimize sheet layout for cutting?