#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-29

[01:02:26] <RyanS> do moving gantry style CNC routers (say 600mm x 600mm approx envelope or smaller) require a lot less rigidity and generally cost compared to mills... Considering its cutting hardwood, plastic and perhaps aluminium sheet metal?
[01:06:51] <toastydeath> yes
[01:11:40] <abetusk> kanzure, dvorak?
[01:12:46] <kanzure> no i don't use dvorak
[01:12:48] <kanzure> abetusk: what?
[01:12:49] <kanzure> why are you in here
[01:13:00] <abetusk> um, do you not want me to be?
[01:13:23] <kanzure> i just don't understand your message
[01:13:29] <abetusk> no, you got it
[01:13:44] <abetusk> you had some crazy words per minute, I was wondering if you were using standard key layout
[01:14:00] <abetusk> I consider myself fast but I'm only 80 on a good day
[01:14:34] <kanzure> yes i use qwerty
[01:14:45] <RyanS> not a lot available for a half decent price in Australia. .. $4800 for a Shark CNC, they seem a bit flakey
[02:07:15] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:14:23] <toastydeath> RyanS, flakey in what way
[02:14:48] <toastydeath> even cheap cnc routers tend to have halfway-decent controls, because they have to hustle
[02:19:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping?
[02:36:45] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:38:11] <toastydeath> off topic, but do any of you guys have an idea what a 500-level english class entitled "Topics in Linguistics" would usually involve
[09:10:37] <JT-Shop> mighty quiet in here today
[09:11:25] <cncbasher_> must be a sale on somewhere
[09:12:07] <JT-Shop> Black Thursday maybe
[09:12:39] * archivist still has a sore throat
[09:13:48] <jdh> I'm taking the rest of the Friday's off for this year.
[09:33:06] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/137676
[09:38:18] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop_ have to work ... no time ;-)
[09:38:39] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: me too
[09:40:29] <Loetmichel> ... and the boss is jumping around the workshop all day.. so sitting on the Com IRCing isnt the route to go for the "production manager" ;-)
[09:47:49] <archivist> I thought the "production mangler" just got the serfs to do the work
[09:49:24] <Loetmichel> serfs?
[09:49:34] <Loetmichel> and there was a reason for the ""
[09:49:54] <Loetmichel> i am the last indian blelow all chiefs...
[09:50:18] <Loetmichel> all but one of my workers have gotten the pink slip├╝.
[09:50:21] <Loetmichel> -├╝
[09:50:29] <archivist> the title over here would imply you have underlings
[09:50:39] <Loetmichel> i have. ... one...
[09:50:42] <Loetmichel> left
[09:51:09] <Loetmichel> serfs is underlings?
[09:52:38] <archivist> It was a condition of bondage or modified slavery which developed primarily during the High Middle Ages
[10:04:03] <JT-Shop> dang I've got 4 weeks to build 9 lift and rotates
[10:05:30] <archivist> stop complaining :)
[10:10:47] <JT-Shop> I'm not complaining :)
[10:12:03] <archivist> I just have some security cameras to fit when I stop coughing
[10:12:37] <archivist> friends farm got broken into last weekend
[10:13:35] <Jymmm> what they get?
[10:14:32] <archivist> stole some power tools
[10:14:36] <Loetmichel> no cameras. fit shotguns wiht tripwires ;)
[10:14:46] <Loetmichel> so the next break in is the last
[10:15:13] <Loetmichel> and if you are generous:m us rubber buckshot
[10:15:18] <Loetmichel> use
[10:15:35] <Jymmm> archivist: during the daytime?
[10:15:41] <archivist> night
[10:16:04] <Jymmm> archivist: do they have flood lights on at night?
[10:16:23] <archivist> no
[10:17:06] <Jymmm> archivist: I'd start there before the cameras. I've noticed that places that dont have exterior lighting have higher crime rates.
[10:17:41] <Jymmm> Kinda like cockroaches if you will. they scatter when there's light =)
[10:18:41] <archivist> the electrics up there are revolting
[10:19:59] <Jymmm> ?
[10:20:44] <sliptonic> Machine native units is inches but I want axis to start up in mm. Where should I be looking to configure?
[10:25:53] <gmouer> is this format ok in a bin/bash file halcmd net signal1 pin1 pin2 or do I have to break it up and set up the signal first then connect up the pins?
[10:27:07] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: the ini file
[10:27:39] <pcw_home> I think 'net signalname pinx piny' is preferred
[10:28:23] <pcw_home> but I've never tried it with halcmd
[10:28:46] <gmouer> ok pete, I have a couple lines not executing in the file, no error messages thrown
[10:29:03] <sliptonic> JT-Shop: Well that was my first guess but the only thing I saw was in the Traj section for linear_units which I understood to set the machine native units.
[10:30:25] <JT-Shop> Axis GUI?
[10:30:53] <sliptonic> yes.
[10:31:58] <gmouer> here is the file, the two delsig command are working, the net commands are not taking place, (checked in show hal config) http://pastebin.com/3kRZ3GnP
[10:31:59] <JT-Shop> I see what you mean the GUI defaults to view inches even if you select mm
[10:32:35] <gmouer> this is new to me and I am stumped why the two net commands are not working
[10:33:51] <JT-Shop> and if you change linear units to mm Axis starts in mm
[10:35:57] <JT-Shop> someone just told me this"just for interest sake, there is a new breed of controllers that let you run regular stepper motors at up to 4k silently or stopped and holding.... and you can put your hand on them they are barely warm. They use encoders and pid controls so in essence are servos....but they are just a 100% standard stepper with a rotary encoder and very cool controller and software."
[10:36:48] <pcw_home> gmouer: are there any errors if you type the command by hand?
[10:36:50] <pcw_home> that is type:
[10:36:52] <pcw_home> halcmd net spindle-fwd motion.spindle.reverse spindle-fwd hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-01
[10:36:53] <pcw_home> in a terminal window
[10:37:56] <gmouer> have not tired it directly in the terminal window, only in the M168 file, but no errors show when M168 is entered in the MDI
[10:40:23] <gmouer> I reread the halcmd docs this morning and wondered if creating the signal first then connecting pins on a different halcmd line is the required way can't really tell from the halcmd docs but considering signame pinx piny is valid in a hal file, I would think it would be valid for halcmd also
[10:41:26] <pcw_home> JT-Shop: using step motor as servos has been done for a while. They still have the same torque/speed curves that the stepmotor at a drive given voltage however. They are good for slow speeds where you dont want to use any gearing and want the standard servo advantages of low idle power and higher accuracy
[10:41:37] <gmouer> or... is it because I just deleted the signal and then on the next line try to recreate the same signal name again?? something it does not like about that?
[10:42:12] <pcw_home> Dont know
[10:42:14] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: thanks, I wondered about the 4k rpm part
[10:42:14] <pcw_home> I would try directly from the terminal
[10:43:20] <gmouer> guess I will have to experiment a bit more I can't see any apparent reason why it should not work as-is, must be something it does not like
[10:44:01] <pcw_home> 4000 RPM is possible (and they stall like a servo, that is if you overload the they will stall, but restart when released) but you will have minmal torque at 4000 RPM
[10:45:20] <pcw_home> That is a step motor can be run just like a AC servo (though 2 instead of three phase and 50 poles instead of 2/4/8)
[10:45:20] <gmouer> it would seem the big advantage would be missed steps would not go by undetected, they would get corrected
[10:46:29] <pcw_home> Yeah its a true servo, it cannot stall in the step motor sense (and only enough drive current is suppled to move to the desired position)
[10:48:34] <pcw_home> but step motors make poor servo motors efficiency wise and the high drive frequencies make the drive more complicated than say 2-8 pole a 3 phase drive
[11:04:20] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[11:04:34] <FinboySlick> Yo.
[11:04:46] <IchGuckLive> Someone has ever seen CAD models for VDI turning tools like -> http://www.fwt-gmbh.de/de/Spannwerkzeuge/Werkzeughalter/VDI-Werkzeugaufnahmen/
[11:05:25] <roh> nope. but if you make some.. put them on thingieverse :)
[11:05:54] <IchGuckLive> even traceparts does not have them
[11:06:21] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: They don't seem overly complicated... Do you have dimensions?
[11:06:59] <IchGuckLive> not all but i will do it my own
[11:07:08] <FinboySlick> OK
[11:51:59] <c60> Morning,
[11:55:09] <c60> I'm doing some engraving and even though I have my feedrates up the speed at which it's going is quite slow, I'm guessing linuxcnc just can't keep up with how much gcode it's trying to process or can't spit it across the parallel port quick enough? Any suggestions accepted ;)
[11:56:41] <pcw_home> g64 pX
[11:57:17] <pcw_home> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TrajectoryControl
[11:57:58] <IchGuckLive> c60: what is your max speed
[11:58:45] <IchGuckLive> c60: can you give me some mor info about your latency and what driver are you using
[11:59:08] <IchGuckLive> also whoudt be good to get your leadscrew pitch
[12:02:35] <IchGuckLive> C60 ?
[12:06:34] <c60> well when I'm just jogging speed is fine, I'm going at 2000mm/min, I'm using a 5start acme screw, it's a CNCrouterparts build. It's using a PMDX controller with gecko 201x drivers for the nema 34 steppers
[12:08:10] <IchGuckLive> ok so its not the system itself DID you check your acceleration
[12:09:08] <IchGuckLive> so you reatch the max speed within 4-5mm
[12:09:44] <c60> ya the Z seemed a little low, so I upped it, my settings for z are: max velocity=35, max accel=40, stepgen_maxaccel=47.5
[12:10:14] <c60> but I'm not sure how the stepgen_maxaccell relates to the other settings so I've not messed with it much.
[12:11:01] <c60> well I'm engraving so it's always going up and down lots, if it's not moving on z speed is fine,
[12:11:40] <IchGuckLive> i know this im doing also stuff like that
[12:12:00] <IchGuckLive> do you reatch 400-500mm/min
[12:12:09] <IchGuckLive> or is it well below that
[12:12:11] <c60> so you don't think it's bottleneck of parallel port?
[12:12:18] <IchGuckLive> NO
[12:12:38] <IchGuckLive> Did you use G65 P0.05
[12:12:42] <IchGuckLive> G64
[12:12:44] <cradek> velocity 35 accel 40 means it takes almost a full second to get up to speed and then another full second to stop again
[12:12:52] <c60> I'm not sure about 400-500mm/min,
[12:12:53] <cradek> it looks like your maxaccel setting is grossly wrong
[12:12:57] <c60> probably
[12:13:22] <c60> I couldn't find any info on cnc routerparts site about settings for the z, only the xy
[12:14:17] <c60> what's g64? says it's active under MDI
[12:14:36] <cradek> unless this is a multiple-ton machine, that accel setting is plainly wrong
[12:15:01] <cradek> and that is the main cause of your problems
[12:15:35] <pcw_home> I was suggesting g64 pxxx to speed up contouring but you accell is way too low so needs to be fixed first
[12:16:19] <cradek> set accel as high as you can without the motors stalling. for a light machine, 500 or more might be a reasonable number
[12:16:25] <pcw_home> JTs rule of thumb was 10X max velocity
[12:16:42] <pcw_home> so 100 ms to full speed
[12:17:00] <cradek> that's a fine place to start experimenting
[12:17:46] <cradek> bbl
[12:19:37] <c60> what's the relation between max velocity and accelleration and the stepgen_maxaccell?
[12:20:11] <c60> I kept trying to up max velocity and acceleration but then I'd get a following error since my stepgen_maxaccell wasn't right
[12:21:09] <IchGuckLive> stepgen_maxaccell 25% more then maxaccell
[12:21:45] <c60> ok, so what should a 5start acme screw be set at?
[12:21:57] <c60> or what's a good range to go for
[12:22:12] <motioncontrol> Hi at all. i use a pid component for orient spindle. For have ramp accelleration use another exsternal components ?
[12:27:25] <awallin> spindle-speed-out probably has no accel limit?
[12:28:43] <awallin> so use limit2 or limit3 ?
[12:29:16] <motioncontrol> yes but how connect limit 2 out on pid.x.command ?
[12:30:44] <c60> actually what confuses me about the numbers is I'm not sure what they represent, do I multiply the number by
[12:31:00] <c60> the scale factor to give me my mm/min?
[12:31:25] <awallin> velocities are in mm/s if you are using metric
[12:31:42] <awallin> motioncontrol: maybe spindle-speed-out -> limit2 -> pid.command
[12:31:44] <c60> does the scale factor relate to it or no?
[12:32:30] <awallin> I would think scale doesn't matter, but that depends on how it's used in the HAL file
[12:33:51] <IchGuckLive> c60 no
[12:34:07] <IchGuckLive> scale means the steps for your unit mm or inch
[12:34:32] <IchGuckLive> c60 velocity is max alowed speed in units per second
[12:34:59] <IchGuckLive> so 35mm/second =2100mm/min
[12:36:09] <c60> alright, thanks for all the info, again ;)
[12:36:15] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:36:21] <IchGuckLive> therefor is this channel
[12:38:42] <IchGuckLive> today i did 150 pulleys with a keyway what a work
[12:40:25] <c60> ouch,
[12:40:48] <c60> hey one other question, I always get an exceeded negative soft limit right after it homes, what's this from?
[12:41:01] <IchGuckLive> the 25 new education mills are going to show in parts
[12:41:40] <IchGuckLive> C60 did you sewt ignore limmit
[12:42:02] <jdh> or is home set to 0.0?
[12:42:10] <c60> home might be at 0.0
[12:42:18] <IchGuckLive> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_homing.html
[12:42:26] <c60> I have home at -5
[12:42:44] <IchGuckLive> is the mashine limit at -6
[12:42:49] <c60> sorry home is at 0,
[12:42:53] <c60> home offset is -5
[12:43:25] <c60> wow, I upped my z to 100 ish now that program takes no time to finish, thanks, I should have done this yesterday when I still had 75 to engrave not the 7 left now.
[12:44:09] <IchGuckLive> c60: please read carefull http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_homing.html#_home
[12:45:37] <IchGuckLive> c60 did you go for 350 or 500 max aceleration
[12:47:57] <c60> I only went up to 100, I'm still doing some production things, was going to wait till I'm done,
[12:48:24] <IchGuckLive> c60: in your case i woudt leave Homeofset of the INI and only set home to 5
[12:49:09] <IchGuckLive> HOME_OFFSET is always Zero if not in the ini
[12:49:38] <IchGuckLive> so the Homeswitch is Zero Mashine
[12:50:12] <c60> so home offset should be zero? I have it at -5,
[12:50:36] <c60> well I'm using the home as the limit too, actually I have a single halleffect one on the gantry and magnets at both ends.
[12:51:29] <IchGuckLive> if you go HOME_OFFSET -5 your MIN_LIMIT = -6
[12:52:42] <IchGuckLive> c60 HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS is set
[12:54:34] <c60> that makes sense now, and I upped to 200 accell, hells bells that's nice.
[12:57:39] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: what is the max acelleration factor for Rotarys
[13:00:00] <IchGuckLive> cradek: ? on rotary speed
[13:00:04] <awallin> IchGuckLive: angular_units specifies degrees or radians etc
[13:00:23] <IchGuckLive> ok lets do a example
[13:00:25] <awallin> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html
[13:00:28] <IchGuckLive> same stepper
[13:00:49] <IchGuckLive> scale 100 pitch 4mm 35mm/sec in the ini
[13:02:09] <awallin> for an angular axis (joint!) the vel would be in deg/s and acc in deg/(s*s) the actual values would depend on the gearing, since rotarys have lots of gearing usually
[13:02:50] <IchGuckLive> compare to that in rotary the 1600steps per Motor Revolution Microstepping to a 4:1 gear
[13:03:33] <IchGuckLive> scale is then 17.77778
[13:04:15] <IchGuckLive> what woudt you give the velocity and acelleration
[13:05:55] <IchGuckLive> calculating on 20k steps per second from the latency
[13:07:51] <IchGuckLive> 1100deg/sec
[13:08:09] <IchGuckLive> now comes in the factor 10 or less
[13:11:48] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fiGsPaFEbs
[13:21:59] <IchGuckLive> al gone Nap
[13:27:15] <IchGuckLive> By
[15:06:12] <AlJaMa> sadly, I just found out that the card for the laser is USB it's not the parallel port :/
[15:06:43] <andypugh> No D25 on the machine then?
[15:07:16] <AlJaMa> nope, I'm bummed I still want to interface it with linuxcnc but now I'm unsure how to go about it
[15:09:47] <andypugh> I don't think you can, unless you go inside and connect directly to the stepper drives.
[15:24:07] <tjb1> Do sensing wires on a pc psu need hooked up if you arent using that voltage?
[15:24:40] <andypugh> Probably.
[15:25:37] <tjb1> Great...
[15:26:59] <andypugh> Try it without first, if it's a hassle.
[15:30:18] <tjb1> Well the pinout I have says gray is POWER_OK, +5 and +3.3 is ok...what does that mean?
[15:32:11] <tjb1> Ive shorted green-black and it worked but then again all these sensing wires are hooked to their respective voltages in the mobo plug
[15:34:18] <andypugh> No idea, my experience with trying to use PC power supplies is a 100% failure rate (but I only tried twice)
[15:34:46] <cradek> I've had 100% success by shorting green->black and then not worrying
[15:35:10] <andypugh> Some shut down without a load on the 5V
[15:35:13] <cradek> I've even done that on machines that should be always on when plugged in, to eliminate any BS from the soft power switches
[15:35:26] <tjb1> Haha...found another that says gray is given 5v to let psu know voltages are good
[15:35:32] <cradek> I miss the days of actual switches on PCs
[15:35:51] <tjb1> So i guess that is what the sensing wires are for
[15:36:14] <andypugh> I dislike having to unlock the garage to turn on the Mill PC, the others I can do with WoL
[15:36:19] <tjb1> * to let pc know voltages are good...not psu
[15:39:02] <tjb1> Wonder what the 5v standby wire is
[15:39:21] <cradek> that's how it remembers the radio stations when the car is off
[15:39:34] <PCW> standby power thats always on (for WOL etc)
[15:39:34] <cradek> or similar...?
[15:39:40] <cradek> yeah that
[15:42:42] <tjb1> Dont need that then
[15:42:55] <andypugh> My Mill PC opens a relay on the mains when the 5V goes off so that the (normal, industrial) PSUs aren't permanently powered up. I wonder if I could use a capacitor to supply enough standby 12V to allow WoL to happen?
[15:48:45] <tjb1> Would it be bad to permanently short green to ground?
[16:01:52] <FinboySlick> andypugh: You'd power just the wol part?
[16:02:43] <andypugh> I don't think I can. I would need to have enough power to keep the PicoPSU 12V input happy at standby power levels.
[16:03:14] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Is the relay-interrupted mains also powering the PicoPSU?
[16:03:21] <andypugh> Yes
[16:03:56] <andypugh> I guess it will be a non-issue when the machine is working, as I will be there to operate it.
[16:13:32] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:53:56] <tjb1> Voltage out of psu means it should be working?
[16:55:11] <tjb1> I dont really have anything ready to load it
[16:57:18] <ssi> cradek: you ever been into the guts of the pneumatics on your hardinge turret?
[17:01:59] <andypugh> I know a man who has..
[17:12:18] <andypugh> tjb1: The right voltage?
[17:19:27] <JT-Shop> ssi: what do you need to know about the turret?
[17:21:56] <rob_h> hi jt
[17:22:10] <JT-Shop> hi rob
[17:22:16] <JT-Shop> how's going over there?
[17:23:02] <rob_h> Freezing
[17:23:24] <rob_h> and thinking how i can fit this magazine barfeed in the place :)
[17:23:28] <JT-Shop> not quite that bad over here at the moment
[17:23:41] <JT-Shop> BFH
[17:24:16] <rob_h> looks like i need to write an interface comp for it too so it can load the bars
[17:24:52] <JT-Shop> does it have a rack like magazine?
[17:24:59] <JT-Shop> I forgot what it looked like
[17:25:41] <rob_h> yea takes quite afew bars too, has a loading rod inside push's bar in, then changer to a small pusher to push the bar in use
[17:26:02] <rob_h> then at end of bar (has a magic eye by looks) push bar end out collet and loads the next one
[17:26:06] <JT-Shop> cool
[17:26:16] <rob_h> http://innovative-rc.co.uk/EMC/barfeed/img4.JPG
[17:26:25] <rob_h> rack on left,
[17:27:51] <JT-Shop> so in that photo it feeds the bars from the loader to the right?
[17:27:59] <rob_h> yep
[17:28:57] <rob_h> got a small DC motor inside with encoder to push the bars with, programer on front u tell it length and stuff
[17:29:09] <rob_h> iv not read manual fully yet
[17:31:35] <rob_h> so u not got any new toys latly then
[17:32:06] <JT-Shop> just the Brown & Sharpe 6x12 surface grinder
[17:32:18] <JT-Shop> need a second story now...
[17:33:01] <rob_h> haha u and me both
[17:33:52] <rob_h> here i am bidding on a parts rumbler lol no idea where to pu tit
[17:34:23] <JT-Shop> the last guy that had the table off put the rollers in the V way wrong so the table had a 15 thou tilt LOL
[17:34:42] <JT-Shop> no wonder it would not grind anything flat
[17:34:45] <rob_h> o thats kinda not h andy on a surface grinder
[17:35:11] <rob_h> you got a mag chuck for it?
[17:35:11] <andypugh> It's great when it means JT gerts it cheap :-)
[17:35:22] <JT-Shop> all fixed now and within 0.0005" front to back
[17:35:33] <JT-Shop> yea a 6x12 chuck
[17:35:47] <rob_h> yea abit like our EDM sinker, sold as broken... got it for nowt, got i tback here 5mins later fixed and working :)
[17:35:55] <rob_h> all it was was a wire on a limit switch
[17:36:03] <JT-Shop> gotta love that
[17:39:07] <rob_h> did u ever get on with HSM cam
[17:39:45] <JT-Shop> no, 2013 wiped it out
[17:40:38] <rob_h> aah not both with 13 yet
[17:41:08] <rob_h> u get the new onecnc i take it
[17:41:12] <rob_h> xr5 is it
[17:41:52] <JT-Shop> no, it didn't seem like any of my complaints had been addresed so I let it slide
[17:42:11] <JT-Shop> I'm still using xr4
[17:42:56] <rob_h> was goiong to see if u rated it or not new vids seem good
[17:43:22] <JT-Shop> xr5 vids
[17:43:26] <rob_h> ye
[17:43:34] <JT-Shop> didn't see them
[17:44:19] <rob_h> on there website site
[17:45:02] * JT-Shop wonders what ssi wanted?
[17:45:17] <rob_h> maybe he broke it
[17:45:26] <rob_h> or has my problem of lazy valves
[17:47:36] <rob_h> funny how many HNCs are around now tho
[17:48:08] <JT-Shop> they are coming out of the woodwork like roaches
[17:48:37] <JT-Shop> ssi: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/30-cnc-machines/2697-rebuilding-a-hardinge-chnc-turret
[17:48:51] <rob_h> dont see many CHNCs tho not here
[17:50:17] <JT-Shop> I've only seen one around here
[17:51:01] <rob_h> i just swear at mine when i put 3/4 drills on slide and run out of travel on the square turret
[17:51:59] <JT-Shop> ain't a whole lot of room for stuff
[17:53:05] <rob_h> non of us can afford the machine we realy want
[17:53:59] <JT-Shop> I know that feeling
[17:54:24] <JT-Shop> I finally got some work, it had been a little dry of late
[17:55:21] <rob_h> yea its abit like that here.. but at moment we got heaps of work. well into summer infact
[17:55:50] <rob_h> and they want to keep giving us more :s
[17:56:35] <rob_h> ri time to head off here, catch soon
[18:00:13] <JT-Shop> ok see you soon
[18:01:03] <Tom_itx> maybe it'll pick up now that that whole november event is past us
[18:01:54] <Tom_itx> it was a real pisser when hostess closed
[18:03:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You didn't buy enough twinkies!
[18:03:20] <Tom_itx> i liked the pies better
[18:03:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And Ho Ho's you ho!
[18:03:47] <Tom_itx> now you go in QT and the shelf is vacant
[18:05:01] <Tom_itx> damn union workers fault
[18:26:56] <JT-Shop> they are just gangsters in disquise
[18:27:22] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: In my experience, they're not very good at the disguise part.
[18:27:31] <JT-Shop> LOL
[18:28:16] <FinboySlick> Now this is a real gangsta: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iygcpqKw0Yc#!
[18:28:25] <FinboySlick> (I quite enjoyed it)
[18:30:24] <JT-Shop> I don't watch youtube anymore since the ads started before the video
[18:30:53] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: adblock gets rid of almost all of 'em if you're a firefox user.
[18:31:01] <PCW> addblock+
[18:31:02] <FinboySlick> I haven't seen a youtube ad in months.
[18:31:29] <FinboySlick> (I'm sure it works for other browsers too, I just use firefox)
[18:31:30] <JT-Shop> yea, I use firefox... forgot about adblock, does that work with the video ads?
[18:31:42] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Yes.
[18:33:15] * JT-Shop is installing it now
[18:33:30] * JT-Shop goes to check on the wood pile kitty
[18:41:50] <JT-Shop> well crap I blocked the video
[19:56:09] <RyanS> Are geckodrive stepper controllers good, or there is better available in that price range?
[19:56:55] <pfred1> geckos are competitive in their price range
[19:58:28] <Tom_itx> they're the best imo
[19:58:32] <Tom_itx> 203v
[19:58:35] <Tom_itx> is the shizzle
[19:58:55] <pfred1> they sure hold their value the best
[19:59:22] <RyanS> you certainly wouldn't call them 'cheapo' controllers?
[19:59:27] <pfred1> no way
[19:59:30] <Tom_itx> my only gripe is their connector but i think my wire was too big
[19:59:40] <pfred1> but they are on the low side price wise for how they perform
[19:59:40] <Tom_itx> once i changed to 18Ga i've had no more problems
[19:59:50] <Tom_itx> 10 microstep
[19:59:59] <Tom_itx> idle shutdown
[20:00:03] <Tom_itx> steppers run cool
[20:00:08] <pfred1> you can pay more for a driver that doesn't spec quite as good
[20:00:12] <Tom_itx> 80v psu
[20:00:37] <Tom_itx> increased my ipm 4x fold over my old antiquated drivers
[20:01:03] <pfred1> 289s?
[20:01:15] <Tom_itx> steppers?
[20:01:18] <Tom_itx> something like that
[20:01:21] <pfred1> no drivers
[20:01:25] <Tom_itx> 203v
[20:01:38] <pfred1> oh i meant the driver IC
[20:01:44] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[20:01:59] <Tom_itx> whatever came with the original flashcutcnc kit
[20:02:02] <pfred1> mariss does some pretty sophisticated development to make his drivers
[20:02:12] <RyanS> is G540 microstepping? Doesn't appear to be
[20:02:21] <Tom_itx> it probably is
[20:02:23] <pfred1> all the gecokos microstep
[20:02:26] <Tom_itx> but it's 3 channel
[20:02:31] <PCW> 10 ustep
[20:02:32] <Tom_itx> check the pdf for sure
[20:02:47] <PCW> its just 4 g251s in a cage
[20:02:47] <RyanS> Native Resolution: 10 uStep (2000 PPR)?
[20:02:48] <Tom_itx> err 4 channel
[20:03:04] <pfred1> quite honestly I think you'd be hard pressed to find any stepper driver today that couldn't microstep
[20:03:43] <pfred1> single stepping is weird
[20:04:23] <pfred1> although don't some geckos change step modes on the fly depending on the speed you are going?
[20:04:39] <pfred1> like they have a built in translator
[20:04:47] <RyanS> does that even matter that much for woodwork/plastincs CNC router
[20:04:48] <Tom_itx> i think it's part of the builtin filtering
[20:05:00] <Tom_itx> i know it's smooth
[20:05:26] <pfred1> RyanS all steppers have a maximum speed they can go
[20:05:39] <pfred1> your driver can eek more out of a motor though
[20:05:42] <PCW> They don't change their ustep ratio but do change the drive waveform ...
[20:05:44] <PCW> ...
[20:06:11] <pfred1> yeah mariss works hard to get top performance
[20:06:40] <PCW> to more like a square wave (voltage) at high speeds
[20:06:49] <Tom_itx> mine in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CEqokrtFI4&feature=youtu.be
[20:07:47] <Tom_itx> another one with a simple test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhU7S8kifJ4&feature=youtu.be
[20:07:57] <Tom_itx> just a box and a circle
[20:08:27] <RyanS> hmm thinking of getting a 2' x 4' CNC router kit.. but I'm in Australia, I don't know much is available
[20:08:44] <pfred1> RyanS you're closer to the far east than I am
[20:09:03] <pfred1> Tom_itx you have ball screws in that?
[20:10:29] <RyanS> does it make any difference if the machine itself is imperial measurements? can you just as easily run software in metric?
[20:10:35] <pfred1> RyanS the real secret is in the lead screws if you want good performance don't overlook them
[20:11:09] <pfred1> good lead screws can make junk motors and drivers perform well
[20:11:25] <RyanS> bbl
[20:11:26] <pfred1> but good motors and drivers are only going to be so so running junk lead screws
[20:12:17] <Tom_itx> pfred1 no
[20:12:34] <pfred1> Tom_itx wow impressive
[20:12:35] <Tom_itx> just cheap acme screws
[20:12:47] <Tom_itx> the original sherline junk
[20:12:52] <pfred1> dang it moves like ball screws
[20:13:02] <Tom_itx> 20tpi
[20:13:06] <pfred1> phew
[20:13:21] <pfred1> if it a milling machine or a micrometer?
[20:13:32] <pfred1> 20 TPI!
[20:13:37] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:13:49] <Tom_itx> 40000 steps per inch
[20:13:59] <pfred1> don't get ball screws the table will go flying right off it
[20:14:25] <pfred1> well that is great because you can still use the maching manually if you want to
[20:14:38] <pfred1> that is what sucks about ball screws on a mill
[20:15:03] <toastydeath> i always just added some gib lockdown and ballscrews worked fine
[20:15:22] <pfred1> toastydeath cutting steel?
[20:16:38] <pfred1> my mill laughs at most materials steel is another story though
[20:16:49] <pfred1> then things get real
[20:17:41] <toastydeath> never had a problem with any material
[20:17:45] <toastydeath> never cut any invar though
[20:18:30] <pfred1> I have a benchtop RF-32 so steel is its outer limit
[20:18:54] <pfred1> it can do it but I have to be pretty careful throughout the operation
[20:19:35] <toastydeath> i also suppose it depends on how good and what kind of gib lock you have
[20:19:43] <pfred1> speeds and feeds have to be spot on there is no margin
[20:20:08] <toastydeath> wat
[20:20:21] <toastydeath> if you're milling steel by hand go slow as balls and just crank hard
[20:20:55] <pfred1> if i don't run the right speed and feed cutting steel it just doesn't work right either a cutter will break or the work will be rough
[20:21:14] <pfred1> nah my machine i have to mill at 100 SFPM
[20:21:28] <pfred1> too slow bad too fast bad
[20:21:28] <toastydeath> that's bizarre
[20:21:49] <pfred1> well whitn some margin but as close as I can get to 100
[20:21:50] <toastydeath> I rough cut slow and hard, and then clean it up with light cuts at a quick rate
[20:22:01] <pfred1> yeah a light cut going faster is OK
[20:22:13] <toastydeath> I don't understand why you're shooting right for 100 sfm
[20:22:29] <pfred1> that is just where my machine operates best
[20:22:37] <pfred1> every machine has resonance
[20:22:49] <pfred1> mine just has more than its fair share
[20:22:53] <toastydeath> resonance is based on spindle speed, not relative linear speed
[20:23:09] <toastydeath> so it's weird that it works at 100 sfm no matter what cutter diameter, something else is going on.
[20:23:18] <pfred1> could be
[20:23:25] <pfred1> the columns on those machines are too weak
[20:23:40] <toastydeath> true
[20:24:07] <pfred1> I also lower the head as much as I can
[20:24:13] <pfred1> that helps a lot
[20:25:07] <pfred1> let's face it it is a sweet drill press and kind of a junky mill
[20:37:41] <RyanS> so are ball screws more important on a mill than on a router
[20:38:23] <RyanS> if cutting wood & plastic
[20:38:43] <Tom_itx> either one if they're in the budget
[20:39:43] <pfred1> ball screws are 90% efficient
[20:39:58] <RyanS> can acme lead screws still be decent tho?
[20:39:59] <pfred1> acme is about 40%
[20:40:19] <pfred1> so you're doubling your performance
[20:40:42] <pfred1> that is a big bump
[20:41:40] <pfred1> plus ball screws usually have better TPI than other threads unless they're multistarts
[20:42:34] <RyanS> right so with ball screws, the actuators don't require as much torque because there is less friction ecause ?
[20:42:40] <pfred1> a lead screw running at 1,000 RPM is just kind of whacky no matter how you slice is
[20:43:24] <pfred1> and to get comparable speed out of a plain thread that is how fast you have to run it
[20:43:48] <pfred1> for a rounter don't overlook using timing belts
[20:44:01] <pfred1> router even
[20:44:28] <Tom_itx> seems most of the repraps use belts
[20:44:32] <pfred1> I have 10 TPI acme and one step on my maching is something like 0.00013 of an inch
[20:44:34] <RyanS> Timing belts are used with rack and pinion?
[20:45:00] <pfred1> heck I can breathe on it and it'd move more than that
[20:46:07] <pfred1> the thing is you can trade accuracy you can't use for speed that you can
[20:46:29] <RyanS> You can knock it down with a feather
[20:47:01] <pfred1> at some point in your build usuallally after you've invested too much work and money a lot of this becomes clear
[20:48:06] <pfred1> realistically it is tough to run a lead screw over 800 RPM
[20:48:13] <pfred1> it is tough on the screw
[20:48:17] <RyanS> why can't you use all the accuracy
[20:48:44] <pfred1> the spindle has more run out than that
[20:49:12] <pfred1> you can't see stuff that small!
[20:49:14] <RyanS> For a hobbyist does it matter if maching something takes 20 minutes instead of 10?
[20:49:47] <pfred1> it matters if everything takes twice as long
[20:50:57] <pfred1> right now I'm lucky if I can run 72 IPM
[20:51:17] <pfred1> would i like to be able to go twice that fast? you bet!
[20:52:05] <RyanS> so is it unrealistic for this to do 200 IPM http://www.cncrouterparts.com/crp2448-2-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-164.html ?
[20:52:36] <RyanS> Considering you're not going to cuttig metal
[20:53:13] <pfred1> the way the motor is mounted there is somehting funky going on there
[20:53:21] <pfred1> could be rack and pinion
[20:53:56] <RyanS> acme on that one.... R&P for the larger models
[20:54:37] <pfred1> then why is the X axis motor mounted under the gantry?
[20:54:58] <pfred1> or is that the Y axis motor?
[20:55:02] <RyanS> Maybe they use both?
[20:55:53] <pfred1> all I'm saying is be aware that some things can set you up for performance limitations and they're not always apparent
[20:56:09] <pfred1> good motors and drivers are nice but they're not always the whole story
[20:56:35] <RyanS> yeah.. true
[20:56:46] <pfred1> never really your linear slides and actuaters play a large role in machine performance
[20:57:23] <pfred1> but geckos are great drivers
[20:57:47] <pfred1> I've seen folks use them to overcome some other design deficiencies
[20:58:36] <pfred1> think about your power supply carefully too
[20:58:55] <pfred1> if you can dump 80V into a gecko when go for it
[20:59:01] <pfred1> then go for it even
[20:59:12] <Tom_itx> i doubled what i had but not 80v
[20:59:22] <Tom_itx> i found surplus stuff cheap and went for it
[20:59:30] <pfred1> well that has to do with inductive reluctance
[20:59:51] <pfred1> the coils in stepper motors are well they're coils
[21:00:08] <Tom_itx> you've probably seen my updated supply
[21:00:10] <pfred1> so it takes voltage to overcome their reluctance
[21:00:25] <RyanS> hmm do you think a CNC router would work fine to do dovetail joins etc as well as the releifs people seem to do with them?
[21:00:29] <pfred1> the more volts you got the more you can push them around
[21:00:53] <Tom_itx> i still wouldn't push 80v even though they say they will
[21:01:10] <pfred1> heh yeah probably not but higher volts is a big plus with steppers
[21:01:31] <Tom_itx> i knew that going into it
[21:01:32] <pfred1> the faster the motor runs the less time you have to dump current into them
[21:01:49] <pfred1> so the higher the volts you're running the more you can get in
[21:01:54] <Tom_itx> that was probably a big part of my performance gain
[21:02:00] <pfred1> oh it is huge
[21:02:15] <pfred1> you can't fight physics
[21:03:08] <pfred1> you ever put an ammeter on your stepper motor?
[21:03:19] <pfred1> the faster it runs the less current it draws
[21:03:27] <pfred1> it is totally asinine
[21:03:57] <RyanS> physics is culturally relative according to a joke article.. so physics is completely subjective :P
[21:04:10] <pfred1> not to a stepper motor it isn't
[21:05:45] <Tom_itx> so if you were gonna set the current drive on a stepper you would do it at idle?
[21:06:10] <Tom_itx> provided the driver doesn't have idle current shutdown
[21:06:21] <Tom_itx> which the geckos have btw
[21:06:49] <RyanS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair read this if you get a chance, was hilarious
[21:10:58] <pfred1> Tom_itx yes a stepper draws the most current holding
[21:11:12] <pfred1> which is why they have idle circuits in drivers
[21:11:28] <r00t4rd3d> in a pinch I used some high temp bearing grease for thermal grease on my CPU :/
[21:12:00] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d some substances can break down IC cases
[21:12:11] <pfred1> I'd imagine grease might be one of those materials that can too
[21:12:29] <r00t4rd3d> its only on my heatsink top of cpu
[21:12:37] <r00t4rd3d> i used a pea sized drop
[21:12:54] <pfred1> reputable IC manufacturers always recommend what thermal compounds they warrant their products for use with
[21:13:07] <pfred1> lists are never long either
[21:13:28] <r00t4rd3d> ill get some artic silver tomorrow at radio shack
[21:13:29] <pfred1> I forget but there are like two that are industry standard
[21:13:54] <pfred1> artic silver isn't one of them either :)
[21:14:20] <r00t4rd3d> i cleaned my heat sinks and fans, used bearing grease and my temps are almost -10 lower
[21:15:39] <pfred1> I have heard of people scraping hardened compound off but really the stuff is only on there to take up pores
[21:15:53] <pfred1> so even solid it should still work
[21:16:49] <r00t4rd3d> i left the old hardened stuff on and i had to scrape it off, my fans spun way up when i powered up
[21:17:06] <pfred1> yeah no once you break the bond you have t oclean and replace
[21:17:28] <r00t4rd3d> i knew that but tried anyway cause i got no thermal grease on hand
[21:18:03] <pfred1> when I used to apply paste building boards commercially we'd spread the greast on cardboard then wipe the parts on the cardboard
[21:18:45] <pfred1> thing is you want a really thin film just to fill up any microscopic pores the heatsink and part may have
[21:19:33] <pfred1> we did power transistors TO-220 packages but the theory is the same
[21:20:53] <pfred1> you can get tubes of thermal paste at radio shack
[21:21:01] <pfred1> it ain't the greatest but it beats axle grease
[21:21:24] <r00t4rd3d> yeah they sell artic silver
[21:21:28] <r00t4rd3d> thats good stuff
[21:22:01] <r00t4rd3d> for a cpu/heatsink
[21:22:14] <pfred1> my tube just says heatsink compound on it
[21:22:27] <r00t4rd3d> made in china?
[21:23:40] <pfred1> tandy corp fort worth texas
[21:23:48] <Tom_itx> the best
[21:24:04] <r00t4rd3d> so yeah china
[21:24:14] <pfred1> part number 276-1372
[21:24:31] <pfred1> it is rat shack house brand
[21:24:41] <jdh> they also package it differently and sell it as baby food and hemmohroid cream.
[21:25:07] <pfred1> no it is the white stuff lifeguards put on their noses I think
[21:26:50] <pfred1> we had the pro stuff at the board house I worked at it came in quart cans
[21:27:14] <pfred1> I'd dole it out with a putty scraper
[21:27:50] <pfred1> a little dab will do ya for hundreds of transistors!
[21:29:52] <pfred1> apparently robert plant was in the town next door to me today
[21:32:47] <pfred1> DJ's BLDC motor driver board is the background picture for the PCB page too
[21:33:08] <djdelorie> well, part of it at least :-)
[21:33:25] <pfred1> djdelorie am I the only person who ever noticed?
[21:33:45] <djdelorie> you're the only one who mentioned it out of the blue at least...
[21:33:58] <pfred1> good looking board
[21:34:05] <djdelorie> thanks! All hand routed, too
[21:34:57] <pfred1> I need to give PCB another shot
[21:35:35] <djdelorie> it definitely has a learning curve, but you can do great things with it after that...
[21:36:03] <pfred1> well last time I tried it it crashed on step 3 of some tutorial I was trying to work through
[21:36:57] <pfred1> which is frustrating if I really need to make a board
[22:13:22] <RyanS> whats generally the most important property of the materials used to construct the frame and gantry of a CNC router, ie axial strength, shear strength etc? I'm thinking MDF versus aluminium.
[22:16:57] <L84Supper> what's the delta on the properties for MDF, 100-200% depending on the maker and resin used?
[22:17:48] <RyanS> ahh I didn't think of that.. The variables of the manufacture
[22:20:37] <RyanS> Could you expect more rigidity out of the machine with a good design in aluminium than you would MDF? (Although I wouldn't be surprised if there is not much difference)
[22:24:35] <pfred1> biggest problem with MDF would be absorbing moisture
[22:24:55] <pfred1> aluminum is generally nicer for precision work
[22:25:15] <pfred1> people love their 8020
[22:25:45] <L84Supper> does anyone make MDF t-slot?
[22:25:51] <RyanS> yeah the machine would probably end up out of alignment if the MDF expands or contracts
[22:25:56] <L84Supper> or even bamboo?
[22:26:27] <RyanS> granite is the best material for CNC :)
[22:26:36] <L84Supper> lets say you sealed the MDF with a urethane
[22:26:51] <RyanS> those granite machines are crazy
[22:26:58] <pfred1> then you'd have HDF
[22:27:08] <pfred1> High Density Fiberboard
[22:27:28] <L84Supper> not saturated with urethane
[22:27:52] <pfred1> I use this stuff called wood hardener on dry rotted wood it is amazing
[22:27:54] <L84Supper> just a 100microns thick on the surface
[22:28:07] <pfred1> I think it is just thinned out finerblass resin
[22:28:13] <pfred1> fiberglass even
[22:28:37] <L84Supper> does it have any fiber in it? or is it just the liquid resin?
[22:28:46] <pfred1> it is like acetone
[22:28:53] <pfred1> really thin
[22:29:00] <pfred1> soaks right into the wood
[22:29:36] <pfred1> the worse off the wood is the better it works
[22:30:11] <pfred1> I bet MDF would soak it up like a sponge though
[22:30:17] <L84Supper> probably a low viscosity monomer and oligomer blend, self crosslinking or is it two part?
[22:30:27] <pfred1> one part no hardener
[22:30:38] <L84Supper> acrylated
[22:30:41] <pfred1> that is the strange part it does go bad really fast once you open the can
[22:30:52] <pfred1> like you have to use it right away
[22:31:07] <pfred1> don't try to save any just use it
[22:31:26] <L84Supper> might just be an acrylic in acetone
[22:32:36] <L84Supper> if you let it sit out, what is left for residue after the vehicle evaporates?
[22:33:12] <pfred1> the can is small mouthed but I think it is like chunky clear crystals if memory serves
[22:33:31] <pfred1> been a while since i let any go bad on me
[22:33:52] <pfred1> stuff is fairly expensive
[22:34:05] <L84Supper> heh, nice profit margin
[22:34:17] <L84Supper> really cheap to make
[22:34:22] <RyanS> do you think this has any rigidity issues? :P http://www.dailycnc.eu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/439.jpg
[22:34:29] <pfred1> well if you got rotten wood some woodwork is expensive too
[22:35:07] <pfred1> last time i used it I used it to save the back of a garden bench it'd have been a pain for me to replace that wood
[22:35:12] <L84Supper> is that made of styrofoam with a faux granite finish?
[22:36:30] <L84Supper> pfred1: you could try using a single part urethane wood finish but thin it with acetone and save $$
[22:36:33] <RyanS> I'm sure that's exactly what itis
[22:36:44] <pfred1> the bench in the back http://i.imgur.com/lt6hi.jpg
[22:37:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/8SsJ2.jpg
[22:37:15] <pfred1> L84Supper this stuff is more expensive than paint
[22:38:00] <L84Supper> pfred1: fancy label
[22:38:11] <RyanS> balsa wood cnc..... There is an idea :P
[22:38:26] <pfred1> can't get good balsa wood anymore
[22:38:47] <pfred1> I have some vintage balsa wood
[22:39:35] <RyanS> So you need to make a vintage model aircraft with a valve radio transmitter
[22:40:19] <pfred1> they chopped doen all the good balsa trees about 20 years ago
[22:40:35] <L84Supper> I didn't do it
[22:40:56] <pfred1> balsa wood I see in hobby stores is nothing like the old stuff
[22:42:09] <pfred1> that old balsa wood was like balsa wood :)
[22:42:19] <RyanS> Are you being sarcastic
[22:42:34] <pfred1> the new stuff is stiffer but a lot heavier
[22:43:29] <RyanS> So your old wood is not stiff
[22:43:38] <pfred1> people must have been freaks for building model planes years ago
[22:44:11] <RyanS> Although sometimes there isn't a place for a stiff wood
[22:44:16] <pfred1> RyanS my old balsa wood is very soft
[22:45:26] <RyanS> Are they going this fast because it's essentially just engraving? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=o4fL-czA1sY&NR=1
[22:46:07] <pfred1> they're going that fast because they can
[22:46:22] <L84Supper> or just in a hurry
[22:47:20] <RyanS> I just thought the the depth of cut being very low....
[22:47:54] <pfred1> 1000IPM is a nice speed for rapid travel
[22:49:59] <pfred1> this guy is twice as fast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zop1z9RNsyQ
[22:51:02] <RyanS> cool
[22:52:27] <RyanS> do you think an 80/20 extrusion based router is one of the better options for kits?
[22:52:58] <pfred1> it is popular
[22:53:36] <RyanS> the Spice Girls were popular too...
[22:54:30] <pfred1> a lot of people do great stuff with 8020 but I've seen it abused too
[22:54:53] <pfred1> seen people stack the stuff up like it is cordwood or something
[22:56:59] <RyanS> It's going to be pretty rigid if its designed well, compared to say L profile
[23:00:25] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7FDMeA0iLw
[23:02:17] <pfred1> I am partial to joe's design out of a lot of the ones I've seen floating around
[23:02:51] <pfred1> if you're going to go the 8020 route you can do worse I think
[23:05:54] <RyanS> this thing looks like a beast.. Check out how much steel reinforcement and bolts: http://www.kronosrobotics.com/krmx02/index.shtml
[23:08:56] <tjb1> Did anyone see the "Burn Table" water jet?
[23:28:35] <RyanS> Anyone tried this particular spindle? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER16-VFD-DRIVE-INVERTER-80mm-Diameter-/251002725012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a70eda294
[23:39:40] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-spindle/1500-milling-spindle
[23:42:18] <RyanS> Are they better for the purpose than getting a retail hand-held router
[23:43:00] <L84Supper> water cooled vs air cooled
[23:43:34] <RyanS> apart from that not a huge difference?
[23:44:11] <L84Supper> power is power
[23:44:31] <L84Supper> it comes down to the durability and precision of the bearings
[23:45:01] <L84Supper> with water cooling you can keep the temp lower for longer MTBF
[23:46:03] <RyanS> It seems like a pretty good price and includes the VFD
[23:46:33] <L84Supper> consistency might be a problem with the water cooled spindle, QC is generally the issue, just hope you get a good one from the start
[23:47:54] <L84Supper> even the guy at automation technologies has had issues with getting consistent products
[23:50:17] <RyanS> hmm so is the variable frequency controller like an AC phase angle controller used for heating elements?