#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-27

[00:23:06] <TkTech> That's some commit activity right there.
[00:30:55] <tjb1> Want a challenge? Portal 2...
[00:31:07] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: already did
[00:32:00] <TkTech> Channel in what way? To mill a stage?
[00:32:03] <TkTech> *Challenge
[01:12:29] <tjb1> 5-6 hours to beat portal 2
[01:12:44] <TkTech> Bah, easy.
[01:12:54] <TkTech> Have you seen some of the speedruns? Insanity.
[01:14:36] <tjb1> No, i was having trouble on some that were stupid simple
[01:14:51] <tjb1> That one you had to use all 3 gels…it was pretty hard
[01:17:31] <tjb1> night all
[01:21:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://allthingsd.com/20121126/the-galaxy-camera-a-better-android-based-camera-but-a-big-commitment-%E2%80%A8/
[01:21:25] <r00t4rd3d> want
[01:34:51] <TkTech> I'm still holding off for the lens to shrink dramatically.
[01:35:14] <TkTech> Until them might as well spend the extra $300 and get a good used DSLR like the D9000 and buy a decent lens.
[02:07:23] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:54:32] <abetusk> archivist, ping
[04:30:40] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:27:04] <JT-Shop> I think I got it... save the subs to a file and use program_open(file.ngc) to load the file
[09:05:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks: hey
[09:05:46] <skunkworks> Hi alex - how is it going?
[09:23:30] <alex_joni> pretty busy sam ;)
[09:23:41] <alex_joni> just got back from london, heading to germany early tomorrow
[09:31:53] <archivist> abetusk, been laid down with a dose of the flu, just ask your questions, any of the others can answer too
[09:32:31] <FinboySlick> archivist: Get better soon.
[09:33:09] <abetusk> archivist, no question. I wanted to say that I owe you an apology. Sorry for being dismissive the other day. The problem turned out to be precisely backlash. After readjusting the backlash nut things got a lot better. Also, thank you
[09:34:11] <archivist> abetusk, your'e welcome
[09:38:31] <Jymmm> s/dismissive/abusive/ 2¢
[09:42:16] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Egos always rise when a man's tools are questioned.
[09:42:53] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: (no comment)
[09:43:11] <cradek> abetusk: I'm glad you got it figured out and I appreciate your class.
[09:43:50] <cradek> abetusk: that previous conversation looked like a lot of misunderstanding to me.
[09:43:51] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Hehe, that's sort of how I meant it.
[09:45:43] <Loetmichel> archivist: i wish you well, also flu-stricken compadre ;-)
[09:45:58] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Eh, I've tossed in my 2¢ and nobody wants (to hear) the other 98¢, so I'm just going to let dead dogs lie.
[09:47:09] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I don't have an opinion on the matter as I didn't witness any of it. I'd likely have strong bias towards archivist though simply because he's awesome.
[09:47:33] * Jymmm hands FinboySlick a rag
[09:47:34] <archivist> dunnoboutdat
[09:47:59] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: You have something brown on your nose ;)
[09:48:34] <Jymmm> archivist: Eh, you're a pita, but you aint too shabby =)
[09:49:39] <Jymmm> (kettle,pot,color_of_choice)
[09:49:47] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You will be assimilated in the archivist fanclub.
[09:50:18] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: As long as I don't have to move to UK, just too damn wet
[09:50:34] <Jymmm> for me
[09:50:50] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: If you work hard enough on propaganda, we might let you run the US branch.
[09:52:20] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I'd much rather head up the Tropical Island Branches
[09:52:41] <FinboySlick> That sort of climate will rust your machines.
[09:53:17] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: See, that would be my first priority, passing along pevention to all those areas.
[09:55:23] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: where i have to write in für the AFC?
[09:55:25] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[09:56:43] <FinboySlick> archivist: Can you feel the love yet?
[09:57:19] * archivist cough's and splutters
[09:57:34] <FinboySlick> OMG, it's comming out its nose!
[10:00:47] * Loetmichel sounds like a tracked vehicle at the moment, too
[10:01:10] <Loetmichel> but the state with the spitting is already gone, the coughing is dry now ;-)
[10:02:43] <Loetmichel> ouch... (ever had sore muscles from COUGHING? ... please dont make me laugh again...)
[10:04:38] <archivist> I have a run out of cough sweet error, I shall have to go out to the shops
[10:04:53] <archivist> at least past the headache stage
[11:24:51] <r00t4rd3d> I just tried to cut some aluminum and my .0625 end mill was all over the place then snapped :(
[11:25:11] <r00t4rd3d> my first broken but
[11:25:13] <r00t4rd3d> bit
[11:27:24] <Tom_itx> spindle not rigid enough?
[11:29:52] <r00t4rd3d> probably not
[11:30:05] <r00t4rd3d> i need a better z axis setup
[11:30:23] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: as long as you havent had to pull the bits out of your skin... BTDT ;-)
[11:30:28] <Loetmichel> with a 2mm TC bit
[11:30:43] <Loetmichel> @ 24krpm
[12:12:47] <IchGuckLive> Hi All B)
[12:13:34] <IchGuckLive> after another 4hr of soldering on the servo driver no movement :(-
[12:13:42] <IchGuckLive> :-(
[12:32:55] <skunkworks> ? replacing all the componants?
[12:34:15] <IchGuckLive> my first servo system
[12:39:35] <icee> Loetmichel: ick.. i hate exploding tools :P
[12:39:59] <IchGuckLive> it happens icee
[12:40:13] <IchGuckLive> skunkworks: are you around europ
[12:40:42] <skunkworks> no
[12:40:49] <skunkworks> us
[12:40:58] <Loetmichel> icee: noting bad happened. just a bit of plucking wit tweezers to get the shards out of my face... (lucky me, i wear (acrylic) reading glasses ;-)
[12:42:06] <Loetmichel> the most work was to identify the Tungsten carbide shards between all the hair ;-)
[12:43:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11846 <- "is that a beard hair or a shard? *pull* OUCH! ... a hair" ;-)
[12:45:02] <archivist> dremel winding beard around the chuck is interesting
[12:45:43] <Loetmichel> archivist: it is?
[12:45:57] <Loetmichel> i would think the dremel just stops...
[12:46:11] <Loetmichel> knowing MY beard hair at least ;-)
[12:47:32] <archivist> well the dremel starts running up towards you, you need the presence of mind to fight back and grab the chuck and stall it
[12:47:52] <Loetmichel> archivist: ok... never had that long a beard
[12:48:47] <Loetmichel> but were standing at the lathe wit THIS hair some decades ago: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2835
[12:49:13] <Loetmichel> ... yeas, taht IS me some twenty years ago (sleeping ;-)
[12:50:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2812&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- when i was still blonde, not grey ;-)
[12:56:13] <Loetmichel> ... my supervisor (what is the word for a man who supervises a bunch of workers in a workshop?) wasnt amused to see me turning metal on a big lathe with a belt-long open ponytail ;-)
[12:57:51] <archivist> supervisor==boss
[12:59:50] <Loetmichel> no, not boss of the company. in german this man is called "meister" because he has a special training to lead and work his job.
[13:00:13] <Loetmichel> isnt there a similar position in english/american companys?
[13:01:02] <IchGuckLive> MOTOR TURNES YIPPY
[13:02:13] <pcw_home> so you bargain drive now has $2000 of labor invested :-)
[13:02:42] <IchGuckLive> it makes at power on 10 turnes and goes error
[13:02:56] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: as always. thats called "hobby" ;-)
[13:03:13] <IchGuckLive> trying to localise the error
[13:03:19] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: dc servo?
[13:03:25] <pcw_home> ;-) well 10 turns is better than none
[13:03:41] <IchGuckLive> it is so bad as i cand astablish a com connection
[13:03:43] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: AC
[13:03:57] <Loetmichel> then: switch two if the motor cables
[13:04:22] <Loetmichel> direction of encoder and direction of drive are wrong
[13:04:49] <Loetmichel> in most cases with this behaviour
[13:05:06] <IchGuckLive> let me find tha alarmcosde
[13:06:40] <IchGuckLive> Position Error Pulse Overflow
[13:09:54] <markvandenborre> if I wanted to buy a ready-made cnc that works with my debian desktop, what would I choose?
[13:10:45] <IchGuckLive> how mutch woudt you spend
[13:10:47] <markvandenborre> (I need at least a 70x50 cm surface)
[13:11:03] <IchGuckLive> markvandenborre: wood
[13:11:05] <markvandenborre> and I want to be able to cut baltic birch plywood
[13:11:10] <markvandenborre> 18mm thick
[13:11:23] <markvandenborre> maybe some aluminium, but that's not a priority
[13:11:48] <markvandenborre> IchGuckLive: what should I spend?
[13:11:59] <markvandenborre> 3d would be enough, 5d not necessary
[13:12:01] <IchGuckLive> where are you US europ ?
[13:12:04] <markvandenborre> .eu
[13:12:14] <IchGuckLive> im in Germany
[13:12:18] <markvandenborre> cool
[13:13:12] <markvandenborre> so essentially, a machine that does at least this, works with my debian desktop, and low maintenance
[13:13:15] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-Wood-Engraving-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-Router-1312-50-x47-2-2KW-spindle-/120833940263?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c22439b27
[13:13:36] <IchGuckLive> this gives you a start
[13:16:10] <IchGuckLive> markvandenborre: cand you build your own
[13:16:46] <markvandenborre> IchGuckLive: no, I don't have the ambition to build my own
[13:17:08] <markvandenborre> I do software, and some prototyping
[13:17:34] <IchGuckLive> the 700x500 is not quite comen
[13:18:32] <markvandenborre> IchGuckLive: I realise that
[13:18:56] <IchGuckLive> it is like a real CNC
[13:19:29] <IchGuckLive> Hobby mashines by manafuctue dont fit this
[13:19:46] <IchGuckLive> http://www.cnc-shop.mobasi.com/Fraesmaschinen/OPTI-F-40-E-Bohr-Fraesmaschine-mit-Schaltgetriebe-und-12-Geschw::143.html
[13:20:19] <awallin> beware of VAT and customs and shipping though when buying from china
[13:20:28] <IchGuckLive> https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/index.php?cat=c10000_Fr--smaschinen.html&showCategories
[13:20:30] * markvandenborre knows all about it
[13:20:44] <awallin> a 12keur machine ends up costing closer to 18k delivered with VAT and customs and shipping
[13:20:53] <IchGuckLive> markvandenborre: the last ones are in Remscheid
[13:20:54] <FinboySlick> And also make sure the machine and the inspection sheet match.
[13:21:12] <FinboySlick> In my case, Chen was a big fat liar ;)
[13:21:20] <markvandenborre> FinboySlick: you mean, check something on delivery?
[13:21:38] <FinboySlick> markvandenborre: Including tolerances, yes.
[13:21:40] <markvandenborre> or check that what you bought online matches with what you receive?
[13:21:53] * markvandenborre is not an expert
[13:22:18] <markvandenborre> frankly, I'd rather pay a bit more and buy something decent quality
[13:22:24] <FinboySlick> markvandenborre: I'm not either, but I learned that one the very disappointing and hard way.
[13:22:50] <FinboySlick> markvandenborre: Price isn't the matter here, i did pay extra for fancy.
[13:23:01] <FinboySlick> It was just fancy *and* crooked.
[13:23:21] <IchGuckLive> here is the Mercedes of the Chineese Manufactures
[13:23:24] <IchGuckLive> http://www.cncmakers.com/cnc/controllers/CNC_Milling_Machine/
[13:24:04] <awallin> my friend bought a "BLIN" from china.. I guess it's ok but not spectacular
[13:24:07] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: Those look pretty darn nice.
[13:24:23] <awallin> http://www.blinmachinery.com
[13:25:20] <IchGuckLive> and here are the Russians direct in german stoch buy and GO
[13:25:24] <IchGuckLive> http://www.knuth.de/produktuntergruppe,13.html
[13:25:47] <IchGuckLive> FinboySlick: they got so nice Turret indexer i got 4 of them
[13:27:22] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: Once I get around to fixing mine, it'll probably be very nice.
[13:27:56] <IchGuckLive> save the link
[13:28:09] <markvandenborre> thx for the hints
[13:28:33] <IchGuckLive> NP
[13:28:33] <FinboySlick> I probably just need to find a good bridgeport. Pretty much all the parts of my machine fit within the travel distance of a BP.
[13:28:41] <FinboySlick> So I could get it straightened up that way.
[13:29:02] <IchGuckLive> FinboySlick: are you in europ
[13:29:12] <markvandenborre> thx for the hints
[13:29:18] <markvandenborre> will be back later I suppose...
[13:29:34] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: I'm in nowhereland Canada. Between New Brunswick and NovaScotia.
[13:29:54] <IchGuckLive> oh there are not many mashines used around
[13:30:05] <IchGuckLive> all will keep them to the last minute
[13:30:11] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: I really just need to borrow some time on one.
[13:30:17] <IchGuckLive> or last CHIP O.O
[13:30:19] <FinboySlick> I don't need to own it.
[13:30:39] <FinboySlick> The important bit is that it be run by someone who knows what they're talking about.
[13:31:19] <FinboySlick> Heh, I wish I could bring my machine to Keith... He'd fix me up good. https://www.youtube.com/user/KEF791
[13:31:25] <IchGuckLive> FinboySlick: Stone metalwork got 2 mills
[13:31:52] <IchGuckLive> Edgewoth street New Brunswick
[13:32:04] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: You mean for sale?
[13:32:31] <IchGuckLive> no if you want to use one
[13:32:57] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: I can probably find one much closer than that.
[13:33:00] <IchGuckLive> Nastus Brothers in Van Dyke avenue have also one
[13:33:27] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: New Brunswick is a whole province, I'd need the city name with those streets ;)
[13:33:50] <FinboySlick> But don't worry about it.
[13:33:58] <FinboySlick> There's a few machine shops around here.
[13:34:02] <IchGuckLive> there is also a cnc service in mactaquac
[13:34:30] <IchGuckLive> So if there are mashienes around you go there and get into ther business involved
[13:34:50] <IchGuckLive> im off By
[13:34:57] <IchGuckLive> Till tomorrow
[13:35:00] <FinboySlick> IchGuckLive: Seeya.
[14:41:21] <FinboySlick> https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/11/16/8CxdbqYLUkKAKfk0iK1RDA2.jpg
[14:44:42] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/237365
[14:45:04] * JT-Shop understands more today than yesterday about metal spinning
[14:45:30] <jdh> me too
[14:45:44] <jdh> yeserday, I didn't know it existed.
[14:47:26] <JT-Shop> LOL
[14:48:23] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: What are yo making? That far one looks like a mangled beercap but the first one is pretty close to an alarm bell.
[14:48:41] <awallin> looks like you just ate some pie... :)
[14:48:54] <JT-Shop> just practice parts, no real parts yet...
[14:49:15] <FinboySlick> That's pretty sturdy gage for practice.
[14:49:21] <JT-Shop> some day I want to spin a copper bullet shape to cap off a 105mm shell casing
[14:50:42] <JT-Shop> if you mean the purple spots that is alcohol abuse from a little spilt vino
[14:51:12] <JT-Shop> it's 25 gauge steel sheet removed from a water heater
[14:52:37] <awallin> PCW: I would have some fpga-questions. can I e-mail you? tech "at" mesanet.com ?
[14:54:55] <PCW> yeah
[14:55:50] <awallin> ok, good. It'll maybe take until tomorrow, I'll do some research and googling...
[15:05:41] * Loetmichel fährt die kiste jetzt mal runter, macht ein image, bügelt es auf den neuen PCH und tauscht dann... cul8ter
[15:13:49] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Technically Alcohol is _not_ a solution. It may be a Solvent.
[15:14:38] <andypugh> I will grant that booze is generally a solution.
[15:16:11] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Do you really want to argue technicalities with a cat wearing glasses and a bow tie?
[15:19:44] <andypugh> Well, I would assume that any cat so attired would like to have his facts right.
[15:20:39] <FinboySlick> andypugh: That'd be way cooler than a presidential debate.
[16:05:28] <MercuryRising> So I'm going through the setup of Linux CNC, connected to a HobbyCNC controller board, I have the pinouts defined correctly, and I'm on a Desktop with a parallel port, Using LinuxCNC 10.04, and I'm testing my motors out (I think they're wired correctly, at least they're the same as they say they should be on the sheet), but when I try to Jog the axes, the motors just hum
[16:05:44] <MercuryRising> if I pulse the jog quickly, I can get some movement, but they mainly just sit there and make noise, instead of moving
[16:06:31] <cradek> possibly your acceleration or velocity settings are too optimistic for the motors to follow
[16:06:50] <MercuryRising> any idea what would be good test values?
[16:07:16] <MercuryRising> I've run through .1 - 1.5 on velocity, they just hum at different frequencies
[16:07:40] <cradek> unless you have the scale set properly, those numbers don't mean very much. what is your scale?
[16:08:22] <MercuryRising> 4000 steps / inch
[16:08:50] <cradek> have you tried different accelerations?
[16:08:50] <andypugh> Accelleration numbers?
[16:09:05] <andypugh> (I was quicker, cradel can spell better)
[16:09:24] <MercuryRising> yes, switching motor steps/rev to 10 instead of 200 let's them move choppily!
[16:09:29] <MercuryRising> accel is 30 in/s
[16:10:05] <cradek> 30 inch/s2 means accel to full speed (.1 inch/s) in 1/300th second
[16:10:21] <cradek> your motors possibly can't do that
[16:10:33] <cradek> experiment with lower accels
[16:11:05] <MercuryRising> alright, awesome!
[16:11:32] <MercuryRising> messing with these values won't damage my motors or board, will it?
[16:13:38] <cradek> no, if your numbers are wrong, they'll just fail to turn correctly
[16:15:56] <MercuryRising> sometimes they sound pretty nasty. But, they run now! How easily should I be able to stop the movement of the motor with my hand? they are 305 oz-in motors, but barely pressing them makes them seize
[16:16:28] <MercuryRising> .25" bore
[16:16:32] <andypugh> voltage?
[16:16:46] <cradek> steppers get weaker the faster you try to make them go.
[16:16:49] <MercuryRising> input to the driver board is 24 volts
[16:17:25] <andypugh> OK, just wondering if you had made the mistake of using the "nameplate voltage" which is probably about 2V
[16:17:53] <andypugh> See how much torque there is at about 100rpm.
[16:18:57] <MercuryRising> how do i make it run at a specific rpm?
[16:19:24] <cradek> math
[16:19:56] <cradek> there are 200 steps per rev, and you've got revs/inch and inches/second
[16:20:25] <MercuryRising> is 200 steps per rev a good value? is it pretty standard for steppers?
[16:20:26] <cradek> well with your microstepping you might have a different number of steps per rev
[16:20:39] <MercuryRising> micro is set to 1:1 for the moment
[16:20:46] <cradek> it's rare to find anything other than 200
[16:21:06] <cradek> full stepping can be much weaker than half or microstepping
[16:21:13] <cradek> suggest trying 1/2 or 1/4
[16:21:29] <MercuryRising> alright, will do
[16:21:48] <cradek> errr I meant you've got steps/inch and inches/sec
[16:21:56] <MercuryRising> the disadvantage to more microstepping is more processing power to compute travel?
[16:22:33] <cradek> it's the maximum rate of software step generation twiddling your parallel port
[16:22:33] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:23:01] <cradek> it's sort of like processing power, I guess. more like latency. there's only so fast it can go and still make nice even pulses
[16:26:36] <cradek> bbl.
[16:27:07] <MercuryRising> alright, thanks for the help!
[16:45:59] <icee> hmm? torque decreases when you microstep
[16:47:09] <icee> things get much smoother and nicer
[16:47:24] <icee> you tend not to get (much) more actual resolution/accuracy either
[16:47:38] <PCW> Torque per ustep does stall torque does not
[16:48:03] <icee> PCW: sure, and hten you get a lag proportional to whatever the torque needed to actually dynamically budge the machine is
[16:49:05] <PCW> Yep, you still have a 50 pole motor and the torque vs displacement is not changed by the ustep ratio
[16:50:23] <icee> stall torque is the same; microstep torque is low; torque @ speed may be lower or the same
[16:50:47] <PCW> and the torque is roughly sinusoidal so there a 'flat spot' in the torque around the current rotor position
[16:50:48] <PCW> regardless of how fine you can set the magnetic rotor position
[16:51:25] <PCW> If you have feedback you can improve this somewhat
[16:52:00] <icee> the flat spot may not be really flat though.. it may be a flat positive or negative value because of detent torque
[16:52:47] <icee> yah, but if you have feedback, you should just be using a real servo :)
[16:53:12] <PCW> Well detent torque is usually a small fraction of stall torque so you can do pretty well with light loads
[16:53:39] <icee> sure, the detent torque is just one of the big factors preventing you from getting additional real resolution from microstepping
[16:54:05] <icee> meh
[16:54:08] <icee> everything is hard and nothing works
[16:54:11] <PCW> You can make a real servo with a step motor, but its usually not worth it
[16:55:01] <PCW> (more complicated drive electronics than a 3 phase)
[16:55:03] <PCW> but better low speed torque (50 poles)
[16:55:22] <icee> and more weird nonlinearities from all those poles
[16:55:41] <PCW> doesnt matter much with feedback
[16:55:56] * icee shrugs
[16:56:18] <icee> limits how much gain you can have
[16:56:20] <icee> i dunno
[16:56:34] <icee> stop being optimistic
[16:56:38] <icee> everything is broken and too hard
[16:56:38] <icee> ;)
[16:56:43] <PCW> there are a number of commercial step motor servos so they must work pretty well
[16:57:36] <PCW> unstallable, high low speed torque (avoid gearing) but expensive complicated drive
[16:58:11] <PCW> (unstallable in the step motor sense)
[17:07:02] <JT-Shop> if you just installed the 8.04 livecd is there any reason to not just jump to 2.5?
[17:08:44] <PCW> the buildbot makes it so it should be OK
[17:26:38] <andypugh> I saw an interesting motor today on youtube. Apparently there are some enormous flat brushless motors used on direct-drive washing machines. They look very useful.
[17:27:08] <JT-Shop> you can't have mine, the wife is still using it :)
[17:27:24] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LjuZsod4E4
[17:28:04] <JT-Shop> youtube ads suck
[17:34:05] <JT-Shop> I actually spun a shallow dish from steel today
[17:52:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh, are they fisher and packyl? sp may not be right...
[17:53:20] <Tom_itx> lots of ppl are converting those to wind generators
[17:53:57] <andypugh> He calls it "F & P" in another video, so quite possibly.
[17:54:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/fp2a.asp
[17:54:54] <Tom_itx> i'm rather sure of it
[17:55:18] <andypugh> The stator from an LG is here, looks potentially very interesting. Direct drive lathe maybe? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LG-Washing-Machine-WH12311FD-Stator-Direct-Drive-/321028588392?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Washing_Machines_Dryers&hash=item4abecb8368
[17:57:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/assembly.asp
[17:57:53] <Tom_itx> looks similar except maybe they spin the magnets instead of the wire
[17:58:49] <Tom_itx> or is the LG just part of the rotor assembly?
[17:58:52] <Tom_itx> maybe that's it..
[18:00:13] <andypugh> The LG part is a stator
[18:02:50] <Tom_itx> dude i know in Au made a windmill from one
[18:03:03] <Tom_itx> worked good until a storm came along and took the blades off
[18:03:26] <Tom_itx> they rewire em for 3 phase iirc
[18:03:40] <andypugh> They look marvellously useful for any number of such projects.
[18:03:53] <andypugh> They would be three-phase originally.
[18:04:09] <Tom_itx> i forget what they do exactly but they reconfigure the windings somehow
[18:04:11] <andypugh> (Brushless motors)
[18:05:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/assembly1.asp
[18:05:09] <Tom_itx> that shows it
[18:05:48] <JT-Shop> my favorite tune the theme song from Secret Life of Machines is playing
[18:16:17] <andypugh> I have never seen a non belt-driven washing machine.
[19:34:56] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those were popular in Au. i'm not sure where else they were sold
[19:35:23] <andypugh> I see a number of direct-drive washing machines on eBay
[19:36:24] <Tom_itx> i think the F&P were probably the originals
[19:37:49] <Tom_itx> i'm not entirely sure but i think someone posted a link to a mill conversion using those or something similar
[19:38:26] <andypugh> http://www.partmaster.co.uk/cgi-bin/product.pl?PID=2271604&query=LG%20F1256QD&model=F1256QD&path=66991,111341:79178
[19:38:26] <andypugh> and
[19:38:27] <andypugh> http://www.partmaster.co.uk/cgi-bin/product.pl?PID=2271508&query=LG%20F1256QD%20stator&model=F1256QD&path=66991,111341:79178
[19:39:02] <andypugh> So, £80 for a large, high-torque motor. Seems really rather reasonable.
[19:39:32] <Tom_itx> or pull em outta old washers
[19:39:35] <Tom_itx> if you have a source
[19:42:15] <andypugh> I had a source in Sheffield, I am not sure about here.
[19:49:38] <roh> too bad there is no consumer usecase for backlash free gearboxes ;)
[20:01:09] <andypugh> Aye, it is rather.
[20:06:38] <MercuryRising> I've been playing with my 305 oz-in steppers for a while, but I haven't been able to get microstepping working (the motors simply won't drive, even in microsteppings as low as 2). They just hiss at me. Without microstepping, I can get both motors to work (only testing two at the moment). I'm going to guess this is because my max jitter on both the base thread and the servo thread are ~500,000 ns, which is pretty bad
[20:07:03] <icee> there'd be plenty of consumer usecases for backlash free gearboxes if you could make them cheap enough
[20:07:06] <icee> :P
[20:07:41] <icee> MercuryRising: have you tried moving them very slowly?
[20:07:46] <MercuryRising> looking at the list on linuxcnc's website, my machine (AMD Athlon 2800 XP+, 2 GHZ, 1 gig of ram, 40 gig hdd, dedicated video) it should be in about the 50k ns range, but for some reason it's getting destroyed. I got all the ubuntu updates, but that didn't change anything
[20:08:05] <icee> MercuryRising: because jitter isn't going to stop them from turning
[20:08:19] <MercuryRising> Yes, the only time i can get movement is when i set the leadscrew pitch low (1-10) and velocity < 1 in/s, and accel at ~1 in/s2
[20:08:28] <MercuryRising> anything higher than that and they're locking up
[20:08:45] <icee> MercuryRising: if you don't change -anything- in the osftware from what works without microstepping
[20:08:51] <icee> then set the microstepping to 2 in your drive
[20:08:57] <icee> they should still turn, but half as fast
[20:09:07] <icee> that is, the same pulse generation will result in half the movement
[20:09:10] <icee> if that doesn't work
[20:09:15] <MercuryRising> alright, trying that now
[20:09:26] <icee> you have some kind of problem-- with motor wiring or your drive microstepping
[20:09:31] <PCW> if they just hiss its more likely that you moved the wrong jumper...
[20:10:17] <MercuryRising> they hiss when i try to jog them
[20:10:40] <MercuryRising> icee - that didn't work, they sound like a harddrive seeking with no movement
[20:11:04] <icee> MercuryRising: you have the phases of the motors hooked up properly, right?
[20:11:10] <MercuryRising> yes, i believe so
[20:11:28] <MercuryRising> they drive when i have 1/1 microstepping enabled, but not with anything more
[20:11:41] <icee> because sometimes if you wire things 1A 2A 1B 2B when it should be 1A 1B 2A 2B ... it will "work"
[20:11:46] <icee> without microstepping
[20:11:57] <icee> depending on details of how your drive is constructed
[20:12:42] <MercuryRising> it's a hobbycnc drive, and i bought the motor from them and used the wiring they suggested
[20:12:56] <icee> I dunno. You're moving the wrong jumper / your drive isn't working for microstepping / something is wired wrong
[20:13:36] <icee> MercuryRising: so.. the parallel port drives step and direction pins.. the direction says forward or back.. and the step pin toggles to move the rdive
[20:13:52] <icee> with microstepping on, each toggle tells the drive to move the motor half as far
[20:14:02] <icee> or 1/nth as far, depending on how many microsteps
[20:14:15] <icee> but you're not having it move at all so..
[20:14:15] <roh> sure the timings are correct?
[20:14:45] <MercuryRising> the timings on the setup page of the stepcnc configuration?
[20:14:52] <roh> steptime, step space, direction hold and direction setup
[20:14:53] <roh> yes
[20:15:05] <icee> he has a point
[20:15:15] <icee> they're most likely OK because.. the same configuration works without microstepping
[20:15:19] <icee> but if they were just slightly unacceptable..
[20:15:30] <roh> well.. no.. for microstepping your timings need to be smaller
[20:15:41] <roh> since more steps need to fit into the same time
[20:15:43] <MercuryRising> yeah that's why i'm confused, i figured it was from the poor performance on the latency test that would make microstepping not work
[20:15:44] <icee> roh: I told him to leave the same config and see if the thing turned half as fast
[20:15:50] <icee> with 2 step microstepping on the drive
[20:15:55] <icee> he said no
[20:16:13] <roh> icee: if the timings are so long that 2 steps look like one for the drive...
[20:16:21] <icee> roh: I told him to not change his EMC configuration
[20:16:26] <icee> roh: and change the jumper on the drive board.
[20:16:40] <icee> the signal that worked without microstepping to move at (say) 5 in/min doesn't move the thing at 2.5 in/min
[20:16:43] <icee> it moves it at 0 in/min
[20:17:04] <roh> i use those:
[20:17:05] <roh> setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
[20:17:05] <roh> setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
[20:17:05] <roh> setp stepgen.0.dirhold 38000
[20:17:05] <roh> setp stepgen.0.dirsetup 38000
[20:17:08] * icee sighs
[20:17:15] <icee> do you not understand what i'm saying?
[20:18:43] <PCW> poor latency can cause intermittent stalls at high speeds but should make little difference when just poking around like this
[20:18:59] <roh> well... what does the latency test say?
[20:19:09] <MercuryRising> okay i messed up a little bit, i had the jumper set to 4 before. When microstepping is set to 1/4, it will not work, when set to 1/2, it will work
[20:19:09] <icee> latency test should not matter.
[20:19:26] <icee> if, a configuration moves thigns at full speed and the computer successfully generates a signal to that
[20:19:44] <icee> if you set microstepping to 1/2, it should move half as fast for the same jog rate
[20:19:56] <icee> and if you set the microstepping to 1/4, it should move one quarter as fast for the same jog rate
[20:20:21] <icee> e.g. no editing scale parameters, just changing the jumper on the drive board only
[20:20:29] <PCW> (as long as you leave the hal/ini files unchanged)
[20:20:33] <MercuryRising> let me do some timing quick
[20:23:27] <MercuryRising> setting driver microstepping to two, setting microstepping on board to 1 and 2, 1 goes twice as fast as two
[20:23:47] <icee> MercuryRising: leave the software alone, just change the microstepping jumpers
[20:23:51] <icee> one variable at a time
[20:25:09] <PCW> no this is battleship! he gets to change anything and you get to contruct a mental map of whats happening
[20:25:24] <icee> :)
[20:25:41] <MercuryRising> sorry, i don't entirely know what i'm poking at yet
[20:26:14] <MercuryRising> keeping software with driver microstepping at one, changing hardware microstepping from 1-2, 1 drives twice as fast as 2, 2 has some trouble moving, but when it does it is about half speed of 1
[20:26:43] <MercuryRising> sometimes it goes, sometimes it doesn't
[20:28:08] <MercuryRising> nudging the velocity up a little bit makes it work more reliably with hardware 1/2 microstepping
[20:31:54] <PCW> did you try lowering the acceleration?
[20:32:37] <MercuryRising> it's at 1...
[20:33:02] <MercuryRising> and the GUI doesn't let it go any lower
[20:35:05] <MercuryRising> gotta run for a bit, thanks for the help guys!
[20:35:09] <PCW> Hmm how is the static motor torque? (can you turn the shaft by hand)
[20:35:23] <MercuryRising> when they're on?
[20:35:29] <PCW> Yes
[20:35:38] <MercuryRising> cannot turn by hand
[20:35:46] <MercuryRising> .25" shaft
[20:35:57] <PCW> OK good
[20:35:58] <PCW> bbl
[20:36:07] <MercuryRising> and the plot thickens.......
[20:56:51] <icee> anyone running a stepper spindle?
[20:58:11] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[20:58:27] * icee is considering it for his minimill
[20:59:01] <icee> right now the spindle is operator controlled.. with a stepper i'd get cnc control and be rigid-tapping capable
[21:00:55] <pcw_home> Hard to get many Watts of cutting power from a stepmotor (and rigid tapping just needs a reversable drive, not a CNC axis))
[21:03:37] <Tom_itx> icee, how small is your mini mill?
[21:04:09] <Tom_itx> i converted a sherline i've had for years
[21:06:43] <icee> yah, mine is a sherline with the longest x table
[21:10:14] <ds3> Hmmmm any suggestions off hand for a "joint 2 following error"?
[21:10:34] <icee> are your accelerations sane?
[21:11:27] <ds3> trying to bring up a new machine
[21:11:45] <pcw_home> Better clip?
[21:11:50] <ds3> I think they are sane... G00 Z1.0 in MDI mode works
[21:12:01] <ds3> it is a drill cycle (G81) that is failing
[21:12:51] <icee> stepper or servo?
[21:13:06] <ds3> stepper
[21:13:10] <ds3> open loop, no feedback
[21:14:42] <ds3> let me try making FERROR and MIN_FERROR larger
[21:19:22] <ds3> that seems to have done it... not sure what the side effects will be
[21:19:47] <icee> well, how much error did you tell it was acceptable?
[21:23:06] <ds3> the defaults was 0.05/0.01, I made it 0.10/0.05
[21:23:32] <Tom_L> icee, mine before i started converting: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling1.jpg
[21:24:00] <icee> :)
[21:24:10] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[21:24:17] <Tom_L> the new supply and drivers for it
[21:24:31] <Tom_L> a bit overkill but leaves room for a bigger mill
[21:25:03] <icee> That's very similar to my setup, except i have the 18" table
[21:25:18] <Tom_L> i wanted more Y travel
[21:25:34] <Tom_L> iirc i get about 7 x 9 or so
[21:25:51] <icee> i'm.. making AK & PSL receivers
[21:25:58] <icee> so the 13" table was just not enough
[21:25:58] <icee> heh
[21:26:26] <Tom_L> i bet that takes a while to mill
[21:26:59] <icee> it's just out of sheet stock, so it's not too bad
[21:27:09] <icee> 45 minutes i think is the program length
[21:27:11] <Jymmm> http://www.eonline.com/news/305614/mug-shot-of-the-day-that-70s-show-s-lisa-robin-kelly-arrested
[21:27:25] <Tom_L> icee, what cad cam do you use?
[21:27:49] <icee> solidworks.. still settling on CAM. i've often written my own programs for whatever i'm doing
[21:28:11] <Tom_L> i got a copy of smartcam years back
[21:28:16] <Tom_L> for full 3d work
[21:28:25] <icee> a friend has featurecam and i've played with it
[21:28:35] <icee> it's.. kinda hard to coerce it to go slow
[21:28:36] <icee> :P
[21:28:48] <Tom_L> most of the shops around here have gone to catia now
[21:29:43] <icee> i'm probably going to try pycam soon
[21:29:54] <Tom_L> i made a post for my sherline for it
[21:29:55] <Tom_L> so it's not bad
[21:30:29] <icee> when we did the microsatellite that was all mastercam and it was OK
[21:30:40] <Jymmm> http://celebslam.celebuzz.com//bfm_gallery/2012/04/Lisa%20Robin%20Kelly%20Arrest/gallery_enlarged/gallery_enlarged-lisa-robin-kelly-03.jpg
[21:30:49] <Tom_L> yeah i looked at it back then but liked smartcam better
[21:31:04] <Tom_L> another bud of mine used surfcam
[21:48:02] <ds3> this is annoying
[21:48:28] <ds3> stepping the G code works. letting it run results in it stopping w/o a reason.
[22:23:33] <skunkworks> odd - someone was using my nick
[22:24:01] <skunkworks> the nerve! ;)
[22:47:18] <ds3> finally something working
[22:47:39] <ds3> reboot and increasing the base period seems to make things saner
[22:48:03] <abetusk> http://imgur.com/7Srmh
[23:17:23] <tjb1_> abetusk: What is it?
[23:56:32] <ds3> p