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[02:03:36] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:13:26] <theos> o/
[02:28:21] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:25:30] <Loetmichel> *shitshitshit* my wife has touchdown from america in about 35 minutes... and i have STILL to clean up the kitchen, put the laundry up to dry (when the wahsing machine finishes any time soon) AND have to bath myself before driving 30 minutes to the airport... should have gotten up 2 hours earlier :-(
[03:49:14] <Jymmm> well, I know one person who aint getting any tonight AND gets to sleep in the dog house too =)
[03:49:31] <Jymmm> but we're not mentioning any names now are we Loetmichel =)
[04:03:24] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: wouldn be SO sure about that...
[05:41:25] <mazafaka> I have created a music video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBdig8PiZ64
[10:46:41] <hdokes|werkin> you want some help with content?
[10:52:40] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[10:54:20] <IchGuckLive> does a serial encoder also have A/B phases
[10:57:23] <Tom_itx> likely not
[10:57:37] <Tom_itx> it relies on the phase shift to determine direction
[10:58:46] <IchGuckLive> i now got 3 Servos identical with the same encoder problem the datasheet gives me a A/B Z
[10:59:04] <IchGuckLive> but the oszi gives me pulses on all 2 phases
[11:01:01] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: that is the right "modus operandi" for a/b encoders: 2 square signals, 90° phase shifted
[11:01:37] <Loetmichel> both with more or less 50% pulse width
[11:02:24] <IchGuckLive> oh i typet 2 i mean 3 phases the Z in the datasheet is S+/S- in the cable layout
[11:02:55] <IchGuckLive> im now into the 4th week of trying to move a Servo with no luck atall power Error !
[11:03:08] <IchGuckLive> i spend now 300Eur
[11:03:29] <IchGuckLive> servo is a hell of parameters
[11:05:34] <cncbasher> has the servo driver have built in limit switches or enable
[11:06:05] <yoyoek1> hi
[11:06:14] <cncbasher> most servo drives do
[11:06:28] <IchGuckLive> i did all for testing there is a mode for run without any issue control just push
[11:06:37] <IchGuckLive> yoyoek1: hi
[11:07:10] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: but as i put the Servo Driver On -> error accure
[11:07:31] <IchGuckLive> AC3 that gives me in the datasheet encoder fail
[11:08:14] <cncbasher> the encoder directly connects to servo driver
[11:09:23] <cncbasher> then connect the encoder output from the servo driver to emc
[11:09:40] <IchGuckLive> Yaskawa Xtradrive XD-01-mn01-E V3.23 Servo Omron R7m 100030-S1-D
[11:09:51] <cncbasher> have you the servo driver manual
[11:09:56] <IchGuckLive> yes
[11:10:15] <cncbasher> in pdf etc , can you send to me
[11:10:20] <IchGuckLive> i also got the Tool for parameter but not the servo para,eters
[11:10:26] <archivist> are you using original cables or did you make them up
[11:10:32] <yoyoek1> can someone help me with running manuall tool change witch length tool probe ?
[11:11:55] <yoyoek1> or tell how to run ocode from hal file
[11:12:10] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher:
http://industrial.omron.eu/en/products/catalogue/motion_and_drives/servo_systems/servo_drives/xtradrive/default.html
[11:13:13] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher: Servo
http://industrial.omron.eu/en/products/catalogue/motion_and_drives/servo_systems/rotary_servo_motors/smartstep/default.html
[11:14:08] <IchGuckLive> yoyoek1: why are you simply not touch of the Z axis with the new tool or do you fgot a toolchanger
[11:14:10] <Tom_itx> yoyoek1,
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/gen05.html
[11:15:13] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[11:15:59] <yoyoek1> I have amateur machine. tools don't have exact length. I can insert it one time different then other time
[11:16:34] <IchGuckLive> so i guess best to split G-code into Tool parts
[11:16:42] <yoyoek1> I have mounted touch button on exact z height from sufrace
[11:16:55] <Tom_itx> yoyoek1, read those links ^^
[11:17:21] <IchGuckLive> then use G38.1 to set the tollength parameter and call it by G43
[11:18:04] <yoyoek1> IchGuckLive: why not make it automatic. m6 at some point. alert on screen. change tool, click ok, auto probe tool length and work continue
[11:18:25] <Tom_itx> you can do that
[11:18:45] <Tom_itx> if you have fixtures for each tool you can preset them
[11:19:03] <Tom_itx> if you need to manually change tools in the collet each time, you can't
[11:20:09] <Tom_itx> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/mill02.html
[11:21:20] <yoyoek1> if each time is tool change in gcode file and axis_manualtoolchange.hal is executed why not to add some ocode to reset tool length compensation after making tool length probe
[11:21:49] <IchGuckLive> http://unitaig.jalling.dk/index.php?id=164
[11:22:13] <IchGuckLive> yoyoek1: there is a programm that does it for you subroutines
[11:22:29] <Tom_itx> yoyoek1, they haven't implemented it yet
[11:22:33] <Tom_itx> you can though
[11:42:57] <yoyoek1> :( I give up
[11:44:43] <Tom_itx> like it was suggested, maybe it's easier to break the file up by tool
[11:50:24] * JT-Shop notes it is faster to square up something on the mill then grind it smooth on the surface grinder...
[11:51:57] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: but it looks nicer on the grinder
[11:52:15] * DJ9DJ likes the milling pattern :D
[11:55:39] <yoyoek1> cu all
[12:01:26] <IchGuckLive> At all today alot of people mailed in on Airfoil generator that is on the WIKI
[12:01:28] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators#Airfoil_G_code_Generator_3_4Axis_XY_XYUV_Foam_EDM_Style
[12:01:49] <IchGuckLive> so if someone needs more info on that give him notice how i am
[12:02:20] <IchGuckLive> im alway here 7pm Berlin time
[12:02:32] <IchGuckLive> By F1 starts in the USA
[12:06:36] <archivist> JT-Shop, the slow cutting time or the set up time :)
[12:07:12] <archivist> I sharpened a cutter yesterday, most of the time was setting up
[12:12:15] <JT-Shop> I was just squaring a block and it was off more than I thought so it took some time to grind... would have been faster to mill it square then grind a little
[12:17:50] <cncbasher> ichGuckLive: i fear the encoders you have do not suit the servo drive .. they are resolver encoders and not A/B & Index types
[12:43:14] <tjb1> Off topic but does anyone know anything about the Nintendo Wii U?
[12:43:52] <archivist> we are geeks, of course not
[12:44:12] <Tom_itx> damn gamers
[12:45:04] <tjb1> Of course
[12:47:16] <tjb1> They dont say anywhere whether the gamepad requires Wi-Fi to work
[12:50:28] <tjb1> JT-Shop-2: I got the THC to work, im going to add something that if voltage is > x amount from target it will double the correction velocity
[13:24:09] <sliptonic> I set "move spindle up before tool change" to true in pncconf but it doesn't seem to have an effect. The tool change prompt pops up but the spindle doesn't retract.
[13:26:13] <skunkworks> sliptonic: check the ini for TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP = 1 in the emcio section TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP = 1
[13:27:59] <sliptonic> skunkworks: There's something there but it's TOOLCHANGE_QUILL_UP = 1. sans the first underscore.
[13:30:44] <skunkworks> I wonder if it is a bug in pncconf has a bug
[13:31:13] <skunkworks> add the underscore and see if it works
[13:32:30] <L84Supper> would LinuxCNC benefit from having more functions similar to LabVIEW? or would that just muddle things up here?
[13:33:02] <sliptonic> Yes, that fixes it. I'll check to see if the bug is already reported.
[13:35:51] <L84Supper> http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/10735 Price: $ 3,698 NI LabVIEW Application Builder for Linux®
[13:40:09] <sliptonic> skunkworks: I added a bug to the tracker. Thanks.
[13:42:27] <skunkworks> sliptonic: thanks!
[13:42:56] <sliptonic> One more queston: I don't have an encoder on the spindle but I'd like to force linuxcnc to wait a bit for the spindle to come up to speed before doing anything. I'm sure I can rewrite my post processor to insert a dwell but I'd rather not have to rely on that. Any ideas?
[13:44:04] <skunkworks> some sort of timer between the spindle on and the 'at speed' hal pins...
[13:44:21] <skunkworks> sliptonic: is the spindle 1 speed?
[13:45:05] <sliptonic> No, it's controlled from a VFD but I don't mind have a 5 second wait regardless of speed.
[13:47:21] <skunkworks> sliptonic: does the vfd have an 'at speed' output you could hook back into linuxcnc?
[13:47:56] <sliptonic> Good thought. I'll look into it.
[13:49:14] <skunkworks> otherwise - some of the sample configs have simulated spindles.. I wonder if you could look at them and see if they would work for you (simulate your spindle so that it acts similar)
[13:53:37] <sliptonic> mhaberler: Sorry, no encoder on the spindle. The VFD has a frequency output though that I might be able to use.
[13:53:51] <mhaberler> almost as good
[13:54:15] <mhaberler> the frequency probably ramps up too
[13:55:38] <skunkworks> sliptonic: check this out if all else fails... (simulated spindle using lowpass to act as spindle rotational mass..
[13:55:40] <skunkworks> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=configs/sim/sim_spindle_encoder.hal;hb=HEAD
[13:56:34] <sliptonic> Cool. Thanks.
[13:57:16] <skunkworks> (also shows how near is used)
[15:29:50] <sliptonic> The VO from my vfd seems to be exactly what I need. I reads between 0 and 10V and ramps up with the spindle. If I want to read that through the 7i77 I expect I will wire it into one of the input pins on TB8.
[15:31:42] <andypugh> You probably need a divider
[15:33:01] <sliptonic> What's a divider?
[15:33:47] <pcw_home> A divider is not needed with 7I77 inputs (they are really designed for 0-36V)
[15:34:04] <andypugh> Analogue inputs?
[15:35:39] <pcw_home> Yeah the 7I77 analog inputs are just a side effect of the fact that the digital inputs (0-36V) are actuall read as analog inputs so we can set thresholds/hysteresis etc
[15:36:00] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[15:36:29] <pcw_home> some 7I77 modes allow 4 of the digital inputs to be read as analog (though quite low res)
[15:37:47] <sliptonic> This is a 5i25/7i77 plug-n-go and I haven't messed with modes. Do I need to do anything?
[15:38:26] <andypugh> Possibly change the sserial_port_0= thing in the INI file
[15:39:05] <pcw_home> Yes the first digit needs to be changed to 1 or 2
[15:40:03] <pcw_home> If forget, does the dmesg list show the available modes?
[15:40:09] <pcw_home> I forget
[15:40:13] <andypugh> No.
[15:40:40] <andypugh> But I guess it could.
[15:41:55] <pcw_home> it wouls help to see what modes the particular card/firmware version you have supports (new modes tend to get added)
[15:42:51] <andypugh> no progress at all on firmware updating. Largely because I don't know where to start. I am trying to get a bootable Windows stick to try the other version of your flasher.
[15:43:07] <pcw_home> The 7I77 manual shows the latest modes (including the MPG on I/O modes)
[15:43:09] <pfred1> can Windows run off a flash drive?
[15:43:45] <Tom_itx> not very good but it's been done
[15:44:01] <sliptonic> .hal file "sserial_port_0=000xxxxx " would be "sserial_port_0=100xxxxx " ?
[15:44:03] <pfred1> hmm I'd think it'd be something Microsoft would want to discourage
[15:44:22] <pfred1> they're not too big on the concept of license portability
[15:44:28] <Tom_itx> they're good at discouraging ppl
[15:44:30] <pcw_home> sliptonic: Yeah
[15:44:56] <andypugh> They don't care about Win98 I don't think
[15:45:18] <pfred1> andypugh it is not that they don't care but I don't think they thought of it then
[15:45:20] <Tom_itx> iirc someone got xp to run on a flash card
[15:45:31] <pfred1> I don't think there were flash drives in 1998
[15:45:52] <andypugh> I am concerned that even if this does end up bootable, all it will do is install Windows
[15:46:20] <pfred1> andypugh that does seem to be a matter of considerable concern
[15:46:29] <pcw_home> There were flash drives in 1998
[15:46:41] <pfred1> pcw_home are you sure?
[15:46:45] <pfred1> there wasn't even USB then
[15:46:49] <pcw_home> (we made some)
[15:47:01] <pcw_home> 1992
[15:47:05] <pcw_home> ISA
[15:47:24] <pfred1> pcw_home we had a cash register with bubble memory back then
[15:47:38] <pfred1> thing was a real POS
[15:48:11] <pcw_home> :-)
[15:48:22] <pfred1> the board had thermal issues so whenever it acted up you'd have to pick it up then drop it sharply to reseat ICs into sockets
[15:48:41] <pfred1> worked like a charm everytime though
[15:49:28] <andypugh> Bah! Still no good.
[15:49:32] <pcw_home> We started with RAMdisks for CPM machines in the 80s, learned never to use cheap sockets
[15:49:46] <pfred1> I'
[15:50:01] <pfred1> I'm talking about 74XX series ICs in DIP sockets
[15:50:17] <pfred1> whole board was done that way
[15:50:49] <pcw_home> These were 64K DRAMs IICRC with AMP side wipe tin sockets --> a disaster
[15:51:31] <andypugh> pcw_home: What are my options here? 1) Write the Linux flasher 2)Buy a CD drive + Windows 3)?
[15:51:38] <pfred1> 64K DRAM in the 80s that was state of the art
[15:51:54] <pfred1> things must have been over $100 an IC
[15:52:12] <pcw_home> andy we can send you a revd 8I20 its probably easier
[15:52:13] <pfred1> today they're not worth their weight in sand but hey
[15:55:09] <pfred1> pcw_home I think andypugh might be the sort that never takes the easy way
[15:55:51] <andypugh> I always take the easiest way. But I might have an unusual way of determining what is easy.
[15:56:32] <andypugh> In this case I am considering the broader picture, as getting updated boards from PCW isn't going to work for everyone.
[15:56:32] <pfred1> andypugh you're British aren't you?
[15:57:05] <andypugh> I see myself as Yorkshire by nationality.
[15:58:03] <pfred1> andypugh close enough in model making circles British are renowned for taking 3 weeks to manufacture a tool to perform a 5 minute operation with
[15:58:47] <Tom_itx> then put it in a museum?
[15:58:56] <andypugh> Yes, and that makes a lot of sense to me. You might want to make another, and you can afford to mess up the first
[15:59:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx oh it is often worthy of writing a series of articles about
[16:00:11] <pfred1> I think it is an offshoot of the whole mad dogs and English men syndrome
[16:11:26] <andypugh> pfred1: You should read "Trustee from the Toolroom" by Neville Shute.
[16:11:54] <pfred1> andypugh it does sound like something I'd enjoy
[16:14:09] <Xabster> linuxcnc does not show my HDD during the installation process - is this fixable? There's currenly windows XP on the hdd and that works fine
[16:14:43] <Xabster> also, update frequency or rate of pulses on the parallel port seems quite a bit slower in linuxcnc compared to windows xp
[16:14:55] <pfred1> Xabster do you have an empty partition?
[16:14:57] <Xabster> about 60k hz in win xp and 35k hz in linuxcnc
[16:15:00] <Xabster> no i don't
[16:15:07] <pfred1> then there isn't much to show
[16:15:20] <Xabster> what do you mean? :) why not show the one with stuff on?
[16:15:23] <Xabster> so i can overwrite it?
[16:15:29] <pfred1> you have to repartition some epmty space before you install I think
[16:15:39] <pfred1> oh you want to erase?
[16:15:42] <Xabster> yeah
[16:15:52] <pfred1> yeah I don't think Linux automatically assumes that
[16:16:12] <Xabster> so, what should I do then?
[16:16:20] <Xabster> boot XP and make an empty partion with no files?
[16:16:27] <pfred1> well if it was me I'd rop down into a shell and fdisk the drive
[16:16:38] <andypugh> Xabster: What does the latency test say? 28uS is a fairly slow base thread.
[16:16:41] <Xabster> fdisk -l does not list the drive
[16:17:09] <pfred1> dmesg | grep sda
[16:17:21] <Xabster> andypugh: 11k ns
[16:17:53] <Xabster> so that's 11uS
[16:18:23] <andypugh> You can probably get 40kHz then, and that's faster than a stepper can run (3000rpm at 4x microstepping)
[16:18:39] <pfred1> I tried to test that command on my box but my dmesg is spammed with some USB message now
[16:19:03] <Xabster> hmm
[16:19:17] <pfred1> andypugh that is faster than I've ever managed to run a stepper motor
[16:19:31] <pfred1> I've done 2,500 RPM but that is it
[16:19:46] <Xabster> *
[16:19:48] <andypugh> I don't think I have managed to get one over 1000rpm, and it's nearer 600 under load.
[16:19:59] <Xabster> how do you make | character on english keyboard? :/
[16:20:11] <pfred1> yeah 600 is I mean connected to a lead screw how fast do I really want to go?
[16:20:17] <andypugh> It depends on the keyboard.
[16:20:54] <pfred1> I need to take new pictures of my Y axis I think it is starting to look pretty cool
[16:21:01] <andypugh> Even with UK keyboards it moves around when I VNC or SSH into other machines, or run a VM or..
[16:21:25] <pfred1> I'm going to pop a shot right now who wants to see?
[16:28:42] <Xabster> andypugh: 40khz at 4 microstep with a motor that needs 800 steps per round how does it give 3000 rpm? :)
[16:29:18] <pfred1> 800 steps per rev?
[16:29:22] <andypugh> 40000 / 800 * 60 ?
[16:29:36] <pfred1> 200 is common
[16:29:41] <Xabster> oh i see lol
[16:29:45] <Xabster> you're absolutely correct
[16:29:53] <pfred1> that is a 1.8 degree motor
[16:30:10] <Xabster> anyway, i had to change keyboard layout but finally did that dmesg command - it lists the USB drive
[16:30:19] <Xabster> that I'm live-booting from
[16:30:23] <pfred1> yeah it should show the HDD too
[16:30:55] <pfred1> well sda is the first HDD
[16:31:33] <Xabster> yeah, but it only lists the usb info
[16:31:51] <pfred1> sdf is the flash drive
[16:32:15] <andypugh> I have a vague feeling I have heard of this problem before. But I can't remember the cause.
[16:32:36] <andypugh> It's likely to be a LiveCD problem not a LinuxCNC one
[16:32:53] <pfred1> I know cable select can mess with Linux when it comes to IDE CD-ROM drives
[16:32:57] <Xabster> but the installation process also can't see the hdd
[16:33:02] <Xabster> it's SATA
[16:33:12] <pfred1> yeah that shouldn't affect sata
[16:33:39] <andypugh> Anything here?
[16:33:40] <pfred1> could be some bios setting Linux doesn't like
[16:33:41] <andypugh> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1913062
[16:35:11] <pfred1> I've also heard some Linux kernels don't recognize some hardware IDs properly
[16:37:24] <L84Supper> heh, are bearing in ballscrew blocks supposed to have detents?
[16:37:36] <Aero-Tec> update on my lathe
[16:38:02] <andypugh> L84Supper: Is that a rhetorical question?
[16:38:20] <Aero-Tec> many of you could not understand why 2.4 would work and 2.5 would not work
[16:38:31] <Aero-Tec> I to wondered why that was
[16:38:35] <pfred1> L84Supper the detents make the balls fly further when you tee them off
[16:38:35] <L84Supper> andypugh: not only the wrong size but brand new bad bearings ... 3 of 4 anyway
[16:39:08] <Aero-Tec> as it turns out the lather motor had a short to ground, it started to smoke
[16:39:49] <andypugh> Ah, yes, causing shorts to ground probably needs to go in the 2.5.1 release notes.
[16:39:49] <Xabster> i just tried plugging in another USB stick simultaneously with the liveusb stick - now fdisk -l shows that drive *only* and not the other one
[16:40:20] <pfred1> Xabster did you MD5sum the image you downloaded or verify it?
[16:40:20] <L84Supper> I wonder if the QC at Keling is starting to slip?
[16:40:34] <Xabster> no, but i highly doubt that is the problem
[16:40:40] <Xabster> the OS is running fine
[16:40:40] <pfred1> most installers give a verification option on install
[16:41:01] <Aero-Tec> theory being that the motor had just recently started to short as I have used it with out any problems till about the time I updated EMC, I started to smell something hot but no smoke yet
[16:41:09] <pfred1> I've had faulty ones seem to run fine too
[16:41:22] <pfred1> heck I've installed from them
[16:41:35] <pfred1> but they still failed their check
[16:41:50] <Aero-Tec> I am not blaming 2.5 for the motor going bad
[16:42:30] <Aero-Tec> it would just explain maybe why things that worked in 2.4 would not work in 2.5, it just happened to happen about the same time
[16:43:05] <Xabster> i haven't installed any updates at all because i plan on not connecting it to the internet ever
[16:43:10] <Xabster> do you think updates would fix it?
[16:43:12] <Aero-Tec> just fluke luck or not lucky depending on how you look at it
[16:43:43] <pfred1> Xabster you're running live in RAM?
[16:43:52] <Xabster> from an USB stick
[16:44:09] <pfred1> Xabster off the USB live it runs in an image in your RAM
[16:44:31] <pfred1> I know 1 GB RAM isn't enough to do an update too :)
[16:44:36] <L84Supper> does Menards or Ace H.W. know what fasteners cost in the real world? $1.15 ea for 6mm x16 socket head screws!?
[16:44:39] <Xabster> kay
[16:44:49] <pfred1> because I've made that mistake myself
[16:44:56] <L84Supper> they better be Titanium
[16:44:57] <Xabster> but even if i did update it, how do i find my hdd in the installation process?
[16:44:58] <Xabster> :{
[16:45:15] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Yes, but you can buy only one if you want =)
[16:45:40] <pfred1> yeah it sounds like you're not loading the kernel module for your hard drive so to fix that you'd need to reboot and you'd lose your live update doing that
[16:46:36] <Jymmm> L84Supper: You're paying for the convenience.
[16:46:41] <pfred1> ah here is mine 00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801IR/IO/IH (ICH9R/DO/DH) 6 port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 02)
[16:46:50] <L84Supper> I just ran short today and thought I'd pick up a few..... at least they are individually wrapped
[16:46:51] <pfred1> Xabster type lspci see if you see yours
[16:47:17] <Aero-Tec> do any of you think it could be the shorting of the motor to ground that started to make things that worked for years before not work later?
[16:48:05] <Aero-Tec> it may have been a good thing as it made me upgrade the electronics to be better
[16:48:05] <Xabster> pfred1: no controller
[16:48:10] <pfred1> Aero-Tec yes
[16:48:19] <pfred1> Xabster yeah I am a good guesser
[16:48:30] <Aero-Tec> but turning the spindle on was what made things go nuts
[16:48:35] <Xabster> how do i fix that? :)
[16:48:46] <pfred1> it depends what is causing it
[16:49:06] <pfred1> like i said some kernels omitted some hardware IDs
[16:49:26] <L84Supper> Aero-Tec: sure, over time the coils flex, the insulation wears.... I've seen winding just fine cold then short as the motor heats up
[16:49:27] <pfred1> or your image might just be corrupt
[16:49:33] <Xabster> how feasible is it to run 12.04 and just install some CNC tools?
[16:50:07] <pfred1> test the image make sure it is OK
[16:50:10] <L84Supper> solder joints flex, melt, crack etc as well
[16:50:16] <pfred1> because if it isn't that is the easiest thing to fix
[16:51:05] <pfred1> Xabster I've scratch built LInuxCNC and it isn't always a completely trivial process
[16:51:40] <pfred1> which is to say you're a lot better off going with the bootable image
[16:51:53] <andypugh> Xabster: LinuxCNC won't currently run on anything later than 10.04.
[16:52:09] <Xabster> hmm :/
[16:52:23] <pfred1> andypugh because of the kernel RTAI builds gainst?
[16:52:26] <andypugh> But if you do install 10.04 suggesffully then there is a script available to install LinuxCNC and the correct kernel
[16:52:36] <Aero-Tec> I found a fault in construction, one of the insulating strips they put in to protect the wire from the steel case was missing, so the wire was right up against the steel and over time wore out and shorted
[16:52:40] <pfred1> ah some other limit?
[16:52:43] <andypugh> Yes, no RTAI for the later kernels yet
[16:53:10] <andypugh> I believe you can run 12.04 on the older kernel, with some fiddling.
[16:53:34] <pfred1> yeah I run 2.6.30
[16:53:56] <pfred1> which wnen i built mine was the latest kernel RTAI would build against
[16:54:03] <Xabster> andypugh, are you suggesting that i download and install a regular 10.04 and then when that is done I run a script to modify it into a linuxcnc kernel and tools?
[16:54:20] <pfred1> Xabster you're best off making the CD image work
[16:54:21] <L84Supper> 2.6.38.8 is the latest that RTAI supports, but it doesn't work with Linuxcnc yet
[16:54:29] <andypugh> Xabster: If that turns out to work any better, yes.
[16:54:57] <Xabster> pfred1: i'm not sure how i'd go about "making it work" when it doesn't see my SATA controller
[16:55:15] <pfred1> then everything works like how everyone expects it to and you can get the best support
[16:55:27] <pfred1> have you verfied the image yet?
[16:55:33] <Xabster> it's running
[16:55:36] <pfred1> OK
[16:55:36] <andypugh> Xabster: Middle section of this page:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download/21?task=view
[16:55:44] <pfred1> hope it comes up bad
[16:55:57] <pfred1> then your fix is easy
[16:56:03] <Xabster> thanks, andypugh and yes, pfred1 i am hoping that
[16:56:21] <pfred1> or you're going to have to do some real hacking to fix it
[16:56:28] <andypugh> However, I think that the LinuxCNC live CD is very similar to the normal LiveCD, so that might fail too.
[16:56:32] <Xabster> they match
[16:56:55] <pfred1> andypugh it would do the same thing if it has the same hardware ID oversight problem
[16:57:22] <pfred1> as i understand it the drivers are in there but if the IDs don't match they just don't load
[16:57:53] <pfred1> so you have to hack the source include the missing IDs and rebuild the kernel
[16:57:54] <Xabster> i'm screwed then :[
[16:58:07] <pfred1> then put it all together with the image
[16:58:17] <pfred1> yeah it is a lot of work
[16:58:44] <L84Supper> anybody have experience with
http://www.nbb-bearing.com/ or
http://www.ixinbearing.com/?
[16:59:04] <pfred1> I'm a vxb kind of guy myself
[17:00:00] <L84Supper> the ones above are Chinese manufacturers, not distis
[17:00:23] <pfred1> Xabster yeah then you probably have the kind of hardware that the kernel is missing the IDs of
[17:00:34] <Xabster> ;((
[17:01:11] <pfred1> I wonder if there is a way to tell for sure?
[17:01:17] <pfred1> hmm try this
[17:02:04] <pfred1> Xabster apt-get install hwinfo
[17:02:49] <Xabster> and then? :)
[17:03:25] <pfred1> OK now run sudo hwinfo > info.txt
[17:03:29] <pfred1> it should take a bit
[17:03:42] <Xabster> what should i look for?
[17:03:54] <pfred1> grep -i sata info.txt
[17:04:06] <pfred1> does it say anything?
[17:04:46] <Xabster> it doesn't no, and neither does it on the same distro in a VM running under windows 7
[17:04:50] <Xabster> (i got 2 machines)
[17:06:02] <pfred1> yeah I've never had this problem so I'm not sure what the symptoms should be it is only something I've read about
[17:06:15] <Xabster> i appreciate the suggestions
[17:06:35] <pfred1> but it is like your machine doesn't even have a sata controller in it
[17:06:52] <Xabster> well, it's found in bios, and windows XP boots from it
[17:07:00] <pfred1> it has to be that hardware ID thing I heard about
[17:07:33] <pfred1> the thing is if Linux doesn't get some hardware ID strings it doesn't load modules for hardware and a lot of other subsystems don't get loaded either
[17:07:42] <pfred1> everything is very dynamic today with Linux and hardware
[17:08:33] <pfred1> I can't say as I even completely understand how it works today other than it is complicated
[17:08:49] <pfred1> and i don't like to mess with it
[17:08:56] <pfred1> it has to do with udev
[17:09:45] <pfred1> but yeah if the kernel isn't getting those ID keys it recognizes it is like you don't have the hardware
[17:10:19] <pfred1> do you know what chipset your motherboard has?
[17:12:25] <pfred1> on my machine my USB controller is the same as my SATA controller
[17:13:48] <Xabster> Intel® H61 Express
[17:15:51] <pfred1> well nothing is jumping out about any issues with it
[17:20:17] <pfred1> Xabster I think you may be the first person on Earth having a problem loading the sata drivers for that chipset
[17:20:29] <Xabster> heh
[17:20:47] <pfred1> I see people trying to load the video the sound but no one trying to load for the sata
[17:21:10] <pfred1> I'm trying to see if we can just force a modprobe kernel module load
[17:21:21] <pfred1> but I don't know the name of the module to load
[17:22:04] <pfred1> if i can find the name and it just works (TM) you might be able to go on your merry way from there
[17:23:31] <Aero-Tec> it feels good to now know what was making my lathe go nuts, not nice I have to replace motor but it is good that I now know why things went nuts like that did, and why a fix worked one time and then stopped working as the sort got worse
[17:24:01] <Xabster> :/
[17:24:03] <Aero-Tec> there was a large temperature drop about the time things went bad
[17:24:06] <Xabster> i don't like being the only one
[17:24:17] <Xabster> it's a very new motherboard
[17:24:32] <pfred1> Xabster if it was a big issue I'd be seeing it
[17:24:58] <Aero-Tec> I am thinking that it was just barely shorting before and was making problems but when it got real cold that made it much worse
[17:25:19] <pfred1> Aero-Tec how cold?
[17:26:25] <Aero-Tec> close to freezing, but hings were very warm for the time of year just before the big drop
[17:26:38] <pfred1> do you heat the space?
[17:26:44] <pfred1> like do you cycle hot and cold?
[17:27:05] <pfred1> Xabster I found a page i think I'm going to find the info i need on
[17:27:35] <Aero-Tec> I keep it from freezing over night and warn it some when I am in there working, but not like it would be if I had a wood burning stove in there
[17:27:53] <pfred1> ah ha!
[17:28:02] <Aero-Tec> it is heated with a electric heater so I try to keep the cost down
[17:28:06] <pfred1> Xabster try this sudo modprobe ahci
[17:28:40] <pfred1> Aero-Tec is it damp by you or pretty dry?
[17:28:59] <pfred1> condensation can be wicked going from cold to heated and back again
[17:29:07] <Aero-Tec> I would like wood heat but the insurance guys do not like it and charge through the nose for it, if they will allow it at all
[17:29:51] <pfred1> Xabster how did that modprobe go?
[17:29:53] <Aero-Tec> we are about 100 yard from a very large lake, so it is damp
[17:30:16] <pfred1> Aero-Tec well are you seeing any other signs of condensation?
[17:30:30] <Aero-Tec> that is a good point and yes we have lots of condensation here
[17:30:40] <Xabster> pfred1, please hold on :)
[17:30:45] <pfred1> yeah sometimes it isn't worth heat sysling
[17:30:51] <pfred1> cycling even
[17:31:12] <pfred1> I did it a season and stuff rusted so bad on me
[17:31:24] <Aero-Tec> you have a good point
[17:31:34] <pfred1> but I was also using kerosene heat which makes it worse
[17:31:46] <pfred1> one thing you may be able to do is run a fan
[17:31:49] <Aero-Tec> I oil the hell out of things to keep the rust at bay
[17:32:00] <pfred1> try waxing things it isn't as messy
[17:32:10] <pfred1> I wax stuff like pliers
[17:32:30] <pfred1> I use like a car paste wax I guess it is
[17:32:43] <Aero-Tec> cool idea
[17:32:49] <Aero-Tec> will have to try it
[17:32:55] <pfred1> I don't wax the insides of the jaws but you know the outside parts
[17:32:56] <Aero-Tec> does it work well for you?
[17:33:04] <pfred1> hey try it I think it is nice
[17:33:14] <Aero-Tec> will do
[17:33:16] <pfred1> I don't want like my electronics pliers all oily dirty
[17:33:19] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the tip
[17:33:30] <pfred1> but i don't want them rusty either
[17:33:53] <pfred1> I live in delaware so I'm out in the middle of the ocean so stuff really rusts here
[17:34:24] <pfred1> I use clear spray paint on a lot of stuff too
[17:34:43] <pfred1> that is more obtrusive than just waxing
[17:34:58] <pfred1> but I can't spend my whole life wire wheeling rust
[17:35:12] <Aero-Tec> lol for sure
[17:35:38] <pfred1> even oiling can be a lot if mainteinence I find waxing can last longer
[17:35:38] <Aero-Tec> I have just light surface rust
[17:35:45] <Aero-Tec> nothing to bad
[17:35:46] <pfred1> yeah clean it good then wax
[17:35:59] <pfred1> it stops that kind of thing pretty good
[17:37:07] <pfred1> I also find polished surfaces can resist rusting better then rougher does
[17:37:15] <pfred1> less pores or something I don't know
[17:37:16] <Aero-Tec> good point about condensation may have played a roll in the shorting
[17:37:42] <pfred1> yeah heating your shop the air can get heavy with moisture then when it gets cold it all condenses out
[17:38:19] <pfred1> I've heard about people using fans to stop it from happening
[17:38:32] <Aero-Tec> I hope I can get a new motor tomorrow
[17:38:36] <pfred1> the air circulation inhibits condensation from forming
[17:38:46] <Xabster> pfred1: a regular ubuntu 10.04 sees the controller and i'm installing now
[17:39:05] <pfred1> Xabster it will tell us what needs to be done to make LinuxCNC to work
[17:39:14] <pfred1> we were operating blind itherwise
[17:39:29] <pfred1> it is hard to see something that just isn't thee
[17:39:30] <Aero-Tec> automation direct has one that would work for $153, but I need one right now and can not afford the time needed for shipping
[17:39:54] <Aero-Tec> so hope to get one locally but will pay dearly for it
[17:40:16] <pfred1> Xabster once it works do this command lspci -vvv
[17:41:28] <jdh> been diving?
[17:41:33] <Xabster> pfred1: im confused now
[17:41:45] <Xabster> i no longer have the linuxcnc running, i'm installing 10.04 normal ubuntu
[17:41:46] <jdh> <urk>
[17:41:47] <Aero-Tec> thanks again for the help every one gave me working on getting my lathe up and running again
[17:42:15] <pfred1> Aero-Tec your problem was difficult
[17:42:37] <pfred1> you made a change that had nothing to do with your problem but it is often assumed the last change is a cause
[17:43:04] <pfred1> that is a dangerous assumption to make often right but when it is wrong it leads you down a path
[17:43:58] <pfred1> whenever I troubleshoot I try not to make any assumptions
[17:44:26] <Aero-Tec> I sure hope a new motor will be the last of my problems and I can get back to making chips
[17:44:33] <jdh> so, if you have a problem and change one thing, and it gets better, you don't assume that was the fix.
[17:45:15] <pfred1> jdh it may be only part of a fix
[17:45:41] <pfred1> you may have 2 problems
[17:45:48] <pfred1> it happens
[17:47:17] <pfred1> all I'm saying is cause and effect can easily be misinterpreted
[17:47:48] <pfred1> it is the basis of all religion today
[17:47:53] <andypugh> pfred1:
http://xkcd.com/552/
[17:48:01] <jdh> or correlation doesn't imply causatgion.
[17:48:22] <Aero-Tec> I believe that as the short got worse it effected more and more of my lathe, I blamed the problem on the higher switching speed of the new drives, I now thing that the drive were the most sensitive to the arcing motor and really did not need to be replaced
[17:48:38] <jdh> I almost always love xkcd
[17:48:50] <pfred1> intermittent problems are really exasperating
[17:49:01] <andypugh> VFDs can stress the insulation on motors. A common-mode choke is a really good idea.
[17:49:10] <jdh> I also love theatheistpig.com
[17:49:10] <Aero-Tec> but when I did other things needed fixing, partly from the higher switching speeds but also from the short getting worse
[17:49:30] <pfred1> andypugh isn't it true that not all motors get along with VFD control?
[17:50:13] <Aero-Tec> as the short got worse it effected other thing in the lathe till things started to smoke and the real base problem finally showed up
[17:50:56] <pfred1> I've just seen a lot of people get caught in troubleshooting traps
[17:51:15] <pfred1> those same people don't seem to be able to fix stuff either
[17:51:24] <andypugh> You can get motors which are VFD-rated, which implies that others might not be, though I have read that any modern insulation ought to be OK>
[17:51:40] <pfred1> ye3ah I've heard of special VFD motors too
[17:52:02] <Aero-Tec> inverter rated motors
[17:52:15] <Aero-Tec> automation direct has them
[17:52:18] <pfred1> then again I've heard of companies that like to charge as much as they can for whatever they can too
[17:54:01] <pfred1> for sure there are motors rated for different power factors and duty cycles etc.
[17:56:30] <pfred1> humans have the innate ability to draw parallels where none exist
[17:56:52] <jdh> my cat does that also.
[17:57:00] <Aero-Tec> lol
[17:57:11] <pfred1> mone too he seems to think if he bits me he'll get rewarded
[17:59:00] <Aero-Tec> well things were working good for years, then things started to be intermittent, and erratic in the motors, they would growl, some time more some times none
[17:59:48] <pfred1> Aero-Tec I had a problem with my first car it'd run fine then some nights it would have "the problem"
[18:00:23] <pfred1> one day after a really bad manifestation of "the problem" I'd had enough
[18:00:42] <pfred1> I was like I'm going to find it and fix it even if i have to tear every wire out of it!
[18:01:13] <Aero-Tec> they would sometime run smooth and fast, other time very slow and noisy, some time just one or the other some time both
[18:01:22] <pfred1> turned out I didn't have to go too far it was the power lead off the alternator the nut on the stud had come loose so the rinf terminal was making poor contact
[18:01:50] <Aero-Tec> but the problem always happened in one direction only
[18:02:09] <pfred1> Aero-Tec did the direction have anything to do with it?
[18:03:37] <Aero-Tec> but the DRO always ran at the right speed, no matter what the drives were doing, and the drives would not error out, even tho they were way out of position from where they should be
[18:04:01] <pfred1> DRo on its own power supply?
[18:04:50] <pfred1> like was the DRO completely separate?
[18:05:42] <Aero-Tec> yes, it was if the dir pin was low or was it high, not sure but it was the same on both axis, if the dir was the right it would actup
[18:06:28] <Aero-Tec> emc/ mach dro
[18:06:47] <pfred1> ah so it wasn't a separate bolt on unit
[18:07:19] <pfred1> stepper or servo I'm guessing cervo
[18:07:24] <pfred1> servo even
[18:07:39] <JT-Shop> I was wondering if that was a Mexican servo
[18:08:11] <Aero-Tec> the key was the dir input to the drives, say the problem showed up with a low sig to the dir, then both axis would show intermittent problems in the low sig dir
[18:08:37] <Aero-Tec> servo
[18:09:31] <pfred1> I'm no servo expert but as I understand it the control feedback loop in servo systems is separate from the power side of the motor
[18:09:36] <Aero-Tec> I did beef up grounding and that fixed it for a ew hours
[18:09:50] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:09:57] <pcw_home> DRO just shows where it thinks the drives are. no error checking or feedback with step/dir
[18:10:02] <Aero-Tec> few hours
[18:10:15] <Aero-Tec> true
[18:10:15] <jdh> ok, I'll let you keep it.
[18:10:28] <pfred1> pcw_home but it thinks based on sensor readings doesn't it?
[18:10:50] <Aero-Tec> but the drives should have errored
[18:11:25] <pfred1> which is better than open loop stepper DRO
[18:11:26] <pcw_home> well with step/dir servos if you get an extra noise generated step none is the wiser (but position is off)
[18:11:37] <pcw_home> no-one
[18:11:59] <Aero-Tec> the problem started small and built up as time went on, effecting more and more systems till the smoke showed the true problem
[18:12:15] <pcw_home> smoke signals!
[18:12:26] <pfred1> smoke is a valuable troubleshooting tool
[18:12:47] <pfred1> bright flashes can often be missed in my experience
[18:14:09] <Aero-Tec> no flash, the wiring is still not a 100% short, the motor has to run for awhile before the smoke starts
[18:14:33] <Aero-Tec> it is just a small arcing
[18:15:35] <Aero-Tec> you can not even see it with the cover removed, one does see the burnt coil, but it is not real bad yet
[18:15:52] <pcw_home> Arcs generate major EMI
[18:15:59] <Aero-Tec> yes
[18:15:59] <pfred1> I've had shorted motor coils that look OK
[18:16:27] <Aero-Tec> and it was arcing to ground
[18:16:38] <pfred1> well where else would it arc to?
[18:16:56] <Aero-Tec> another coil
[18:17:41] <pcw_home> Overheating can cause shorted turns
[18:17:44] <pfred1> polyphase motor?
[18:18:22] <pfred1> I have a grinder here someone cooked pretty good but it runs OK today
[18:18:36] <pfred1> I guess it has self healing winding insulation?
[18:18:41] <Aero-Tec> anyways, I sure hope this motor arc theory is correct and a new motor will fix things up good as new
[18:18:46] <pcw_home> burned -in?
[18:18:55] <pfred1> pcw_home really burned in
[18:19:09] <pfred1> it runs like a cham today though
[18:19:12] <pfred1> champ even
[18:19:17] <pcw_home> better than burned-out
[18:19:27] <pfred1> let me find the pic of it
[18:19:45] <Aero-Tec> sounds like someone stalled the motor for to long and it over heated
[18:20:00] <Aero-Tec> or over loaded it
[18:20:20] <Aero-Tec> a motor can smoke and still be OK
[18:20:47] <Aero-Tec> I was hoping mine would have had a small simple thing wrong and I could fix it
[18:20:55] <pfred1> well good old imgur isn't working too swift today
[18:21:20] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/ieMSq.jpg
[18:21:29] <Aero-Tec> like the starting switch not opening up
[18:21:53] <pfred1> yeah the starter switch in it might have been seized
[18:22:33] <pfred1> the coil looked like someone barbequed it
[18:22:45] <Aero-Tec> I checked it
[18:22:54] <Aero-Tec> the switch has working well
[18:22:56] <pcw_home> Thats no spring chicken...
[18:23:07] <pfred1> yeah I have another one just like it
[18:23:20] <JT-Shop> nor a springer
[18:23:41] <pfred1> you gotta love how whoever sold it had to write works in the price
[18:23:57] <pfred1> because when I first plugged it in it didn't work
[18:24:01] <andypugh> pfred1: Screwdrivers & etc? You didn't do latin at school did you?
[18:24:03] <pfred1> the thermal had been tripped
[18:24:20] <pfred1> andypugh no I didn't
[18:24:51] <pfred1> but i see what you're driving at because etc means and
[18:25:09] <andypugh> "&" is a stylized "Et" I believe.
[18:25:26] <andypugh> You quite often see &c in older books.
[18:25:37] <pfred1> yeah well I put that there so I don't forget there is other stuff than just screwdrivers in that drawer
[18:26:10] <pfred1> at my age I'm lucky i remember my own name half the time
[18:26:14] <andypugh> I can't believe how often I look in the spanners drawer for a screwdriver.
[18:26:38] <andypugh> They aren't labelled, but that's no excuse, there are only 4 drawers.
[18:27:14] <pfred1> well I repurpose the drawers in that box a lot
[18:27:42] <pfred1> or when i put the labels on the drawers I'd just repurposed them all so that helped me remember what was in any of them
[18:28:03] <pfred1> those are really my overflow screwdrivers not the ones i use all the time
[18:29:02] <pfred1> in this pic you can see the screwdrivers I don't need to label
http://i.imgur.com/1HE2r.jpg
[18:29:34] <pfred1> evne those aren't my main toolbox screwdrivers but those are the ones i use when I'm over in that spot
[18:29:55] <andypugh> You are a man of many vices, I see.
[18:30:02] <pfred1> yes i am :)
[18:30:36] <pfred1> I can't believe the British don't have the word vise
[18:31:12] <pfred1> do you guys have vice squads or is that just an American thing?
[18:31:39] <andypugh> We use the same word to mean two different things. It makes for more amusing jokes.
[18:31:54] <pfred1> over here it just means some folks are ignorant
[18:32:29] <andypugh> http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/eagmeister/cj_009.gif
[18:32:51] <pfred1> heh
[18:33:07] <pfred1> I wonder if i have a pic of my woodworkign bench?
[18:33:10] <JT-Shop> so my surface grinder table has 0.018" tilt in the Y direction... if I shim up a test plate it is almost flat
[18:33:25] <pfred1> dang
[18:33:50] <pfred1> magnetic chuck on your surface grinder?
[18:33:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Does that actually affect the results?
[18:34:03] <JT-Shop> took the chuck off
[18:34:06] <pfred1> I had a really hard time learning how to surface grind
[18:34:14] <JT-Shop> yea it is tilted
[18:34:25] <pfred1> man when I started i thought the motion wasj ust the funniest thing
[18:34:52] <JT-Shop> the Y axis ways are flat
[18:35:05] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, but it might still generate flats. It depends whether the top is parallel to the ways or not.
[18:35:26] <andypugh> Ah, OK. Tapered table then?
[18:35:38] <JT-Shop> it puts the magnetic chuck at an angle so things are tapered in the Y axis
[18:35:45] <andypugh> It isn't a build-up of concrungulate in the slides is it?
[18:35:57] <JT-Shop> something is out of wack
[18:36:05] <JT-Shop> the X axis uses rollers
[18:36:13] <pfred1> 0.018 is gigantic for grinding
[18:36:20] <JT-Shop> and X indicates really flat
[18:36:23] <JT-Shop> yea
[18:36:40] <pfred1> surface grinding is pretty bad assed though
[18:37:06] <pfred1> I can make a finish that looks like a magnetic tape with the oil slick and stuff
[18:37:15] <JT-Shop> I'll have to take the table off to see what is up
[18:37:29] <pfred1> we had a huge power surface grinder too
[18:37:37] <pfred1> I mean you could walk into it
[18:37:53] <pfred1> 4 foot diameter wheel
[18:38:30] <pfred1> whenever i had to do nickel chromium bodies I'd have to get them done on that
[18:38:46] <pfred1> they were too hard they'd warp
[18:39:08] <tjb1> Ive run a blanchard grinder that had something like a 4 ft diameter
[18:39:22] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av9fuRmEpDg
[18:39:53] <pfred1> tjb1 I didn't run the big grinder we had one guy that ran it all day long he wouldn't let anyone near it
[18:39:59] <pfred1> Stanley
[18:40:14] <pfred1> I don't even think he'd have let the company owner near it
[18:40:21] * JT-Shop wanders back inside now
[18:40:22] <tjb1> I dont see running grinders as fun
[18:40:36] <tjb1> My arm is usually tired after 20 minutes on a manual surface grinder
[18:40:36] <pfred1> I appreciate the job they do
[18:41:21] <pfred1> if you need stuff to a ten thousandth of an inch it is the way to fly
[18:41:46] <tjb1> I prefer to rub my parts with a piece of copy paper
[18:41:48] <tjb1> ;)
[18:42:01] <pfred1> we'd use wet or dry sandpaper sometimes too
[18:42:07] <tjb1> Im kidding
[18:42:12] <pfred1> I'm not
[18:42:24] <pfred1> I'd use that on the graduated bases
[18:42:46] <pfred1> we had a pneumatic rotary table for those
[18:42:59] <pfred1> but sometimes I'd finish dress them on some 600 grit sandpaper
[18:43:20] <pfred1> let me find a picture of what i used to make
[18:43:29] <tjb1> Ever pick up a piece of like 3000 grit sandpaper and ask yourself what the hell is this even going to do?
[18:44:04] <pfred1> http://www.emachinetool.com/images/catalogs/accessories/standard/js-dresser.jpg
[18:44:09] <pfred1> I used to make those
[18:45:26] <andypugh> Those look too nice to be near grinding dust
[18:45:38] <tjb1> Very nice pfred1
[18:45:42] <pfred1> oh you should see the condition they came in we rebuilt them
[18:45:58] <pfred1> after they'd been slammed by sheels and stuff
[18:46:02] <pfred1> wheels even
[18:46:14] <pfred1> we'd send them back out like new
[18:46:26] <pfred1> just the rebuild cost $1,500
[18:46:47] <mikegg> pcw_home: any plans for a super port 7I40 ?
[18:46:49] <pfred1> new the unit that one there that is a mid sized one it is about $4,000
[18:47:02] <pfred1> the mike base is extra
[18:47:15] <tjb1> Anyone here seen the new Orange Vises?
[18:47:49] <pfred1> tjb1 got a link?
[18:48:07] <pfred1> I kind of like Wilton for vises but I'd never spend what they cost
[18:48:26] <tjb1> http://orangevise.com/
[18:49:14] <pfred1> my milling vise is a real POS
[18:50:39] <pcw_home> mikegg yes 8C21 (48V 30A 3 phase drive - can do brush as well)
[18:50:41] <andypugh> I have a Kurt double vise (looks like a vice to me) with no jaws. I really ought to try to get rid of it.
[18:51:27] <pfred1> but don't laugh too hard i got it at a flea market for $20
http://i.imgur.com/pwzbv.jpg
[18:52:07] <pfred1> I had to pull it all apart and regrind the threads it was stripped out and the movable jaw was cracked
[18:52:41] <pfred1> I don't know it works OK to me now
[18:53:07] <mikegg> pcw_home, will you do a high voltage model as well?
[18:53:15] <tjb1> You have some nice flea markets...
[18:53:25] <tjb1> Nothing but the same garbage every year at the one I go to
[18:53:40] <tjb1> The chinese have even started bring their junk too it
[18:53:44] <pfred1> oh i travel around
[18:54:09] <andypugh> mikegg: 8i20?
[18:54:46] <pfred1> tjb1 I got this vise for a dollar but when I got it it was all filthy I thought it was chinese
http://i.imgur.com/Y0kAC.jpg
[18:54:56] <pcw_home> 8I21 is what I meant
[18:55:02] <mikegg> heh, 400 volts is too high. I need something in the middle
[18:55:49] <pfred1> what is wrong with imgur tonight it is loading so slowly for me
[18:56:28] <pcw_home> 8i21 is 48V
[18:56:48] <tjb1> pretty decent pfred1
[18:57:22] <pfred1> tjb1 I mostly just buy my tools used anymore
[18:57:31] <mikegg> I'd like to try the 8I20's, but if I go that route I'd probably buy five of them. Just not ready to plunk down a grand I guess
[18:57:54] <tjb1> Not my picture but I got this -
http://www.bergeng.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/599-603-146-3.jpg Brown and Sharpe 0-6" depth micrometer for $60
[18:58:48] <pfred1> I got a Micotoyo for $3 at an estate sale but no extra anvils
[18:59:01] <pfred1> oh that sale made me sick
[18:59:21] <pfred1> a whole cellar loaded with tooling but I was in the process of moving so I had to pass on most of it
[18:59:37] <pfred1> I could have went back the next day and got it all for like $100
[19:00:03] <pfred1> but I didn't want to have to move it all
[19:00:29] <pfred1> I still regret that
[19:00:54] <pfred1> because the people had no idea what any of it was worth
[19:01:23] <tjb1> I havent really started getting tools yet
[19:01:30] <tjb1> Not sure if I am going to be working as a machinist
[19:01:33] <archivist> dont see many estate sales over here
[19:01:33] <pfred1> every time I went up to the girl with a handful of stuff she'd look at it and say, give me $3
[19:02:01] <pfred1> it didn't seem to matter what it was
[19:02:52] <pfred1> archivist I go to a lot of estate sales but I never saw one like that one
[19:03:04] <pfred1> this cellar was packed!
[19:04:14] <pfred1> estate sales are run by professionals and they run friday saturday and sunday and if you go late sunday everything is almost free
[19:04:31] <pfred1> because they figure it is now or never to get any more money out of anything
[19:05:42] <tjb1> Not that many machine shops around here
[19:05:50] <tjb1> So I dont imagine there would be a lot of people just packing tools
[19:05:55] <archivist> over here "estates" go to a local auction house general auction usually else a local "house clearance" company
[19:06:11] <pfred1> last one I was at i picked up this beautiful pair of Utica tools linesmans pliers took it up to the check out table they said give me a quarter for them
[19:06:36] <pfred1> I kicked myself because i left two other pairs of pliers behind
[19:06:58] <archivist> although an auction company quoted one family and I got to hear....7 car loads of books :)
[19:07:16] <pfred1> book scanning is big
[19:07:47] <pfred1> there are phone apps where you can scan the UPC symbol in books and they tell you what they are worth on Amazon
[19:08:10] <pfred1> so buying used books can be very competitive
[19:08:59] <pfred1> last good book I got was a 1957 book about Leonardo Da Vinci I paid $5 for it is is worth about $80
[19:09:05] <archivist> ebay and amazon have ruined the second hand market
[19:09:13] <pfred1> they have
[19:09:29] <pfred1> but what I like to remind people this ain't ebay
[19:10:43] <jdh> I like to remind sellers I can buy via ebay and amazon
[19:10:44] <mikegg> pcw_home, could I do 5I25 -> 7I74 -> 7I69 -> 2 x 7I40H ?
[19:11:19] <mikegg> Pretty round about way I suppose
[19:11:46] <mikegg> but these aren't anywhere near 3 hp servos
[19:12:54] <pcw_home> 7I69 cannot drive 7I40, not fast enough but its conceivable
[19:13:39] <tjb1> anyone happen to have a chart of wires and their power for PC power supplies?
[19:15:38] <pfred1> tjb1 ought oh what are you doing?
[19:15:44] <tjb1> actually I found it
[19:15:55] <tjb1> Im using a pc power supply in my electronics box because all my wall warts suck
[19:16:12] <pfred1> PC PSU today should have 3.3 5 12 and -12?
[19:16:28] <tjb1> yes
[19:16:45] <pfred1> make one of my PSUs
[19:17:24] <pfred1> tjb1 this one is amazing
http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[19:17:46] <tjb1> im not into building electronic items
[19:17:50] <tjb1> it usually always fails :)
[19:17:52] <pfred1> bah piffle
[19:18:06] <pfred1> althoug hthat one is deceptively simple even I screwed it up initially
[19:18:16] <tjb1> i already have this computer psu
[19:18:53] <pfred1> yes that is the popular argument always
[19:20:01] <pfred1> PC PSU SMPS aren't ideal general purpose supplies though
[19:20:32] <tjb1> why?
[19:20:48] <pfred1> well because they are designed to run computers
[19:21:08] <pfred1> some very special designed in fact
[19:21:26] <pfred1> really the crappier the PSU is the more suited it is for general purpose use
[19:21:54] <tjb1> this is off an old dell, probably 10 years old
[19:21:55] <tjb1> or more
[19:21:57] <pfred1> but the nicer ones have sensing circuitry in them that makes them less desirable for different tasks
[19:22:19] <tjb1> well its stamped march 2003 on the side
[19:22:24] <pfred1> yeah the output filter caps on that aren't in too bad a shape I'm sure
[19:22:45] <tjb1> all you have to do is run green -> ground and it works
[19:23:03] <pfred1> some expect a 10% load for regulation
[19:23:19] <pfred1> you have ot understand how a regulated supply works
[19:23:25] <pfred1> they work with feedback
[19:23:59] <pfred1> insufficient load and they cannot regulate properly
[19:24:09] <tjb1> this isnt one of those :)
[19:24:20] <pfred1> yeah some won't even come on without a load
[19:25:05] <tjb1> hardest part about using this is cutting the hole in my box for the fan and plug
[19:25:49] <pfred1> well let's hope the PSU isn't a current ripple pump these days for you
[19:26:19] <pfred1> that is what happens to them when the output filter caps go bad
[19:27:04] <tjb1> not a big loss for me
[19:27:05] <tjb1> heh
[19:27:18] <pfred1> some things don't need clean power
[19:27:42] <tjb1> this is for a couple relays, BOB, 4 inductive prox sensors and 2 fans
[19:27:53] <pfred1> the BOB might like clean power
[19:28:18] <pfred1> it may have its own on board regulator though
[19:28:34] <pfred1> is it a 12 volt input?
[19:28:52] <tjb1> 5v
[19:28:55] <pfred1> oh
[19:29:11] <pfred1> I designed my BOB with on board regulation
[19:29:24] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[19:29:45] <tjb1> im gonna tear this psu down and remove all but the 12v and 5v wires
[19:29:51] <tjb1> I dont need 20 of them lol
[19:29:54] <pfred1> people do that
[19:30:01] <pfred1> just be careful of the input caps
[19:30:13] <pfred1> well it has been off a long time now right?
[19:30:27] <tjb1> im not doing it now, ill let it sit all week
[19:30:45] <pfred1> most PSUs have bleeders on the input caps in circuit
[19:30:58] <tjb1> i just tore the cover off to see where the wires were going…they have like 6 yellow going through a hole in the board
[19:31:16] <tjb1> and then 1 yellow right in front of it so 1 joint and I just eliminated all of the yellow I dont need
[19:31:27] <pfred1> I want to get into making custom SMPS when I get back into electronics
[19:31:38] <pfred1> they are interesting
[19:32:05] <pfred1> it is what I'm into now high current electronics
[19:32:26] <pfred1> the low current stuff just seems boring to me anymore
[19:32:30] <tjb1> im into making things…mechanical things not electrical
[19:32:42] <tjb1> electronics drives me crazy
[19:32:43] <pfred1> oh electronics is my passion
[19:32:55] <pfred1> to me it is like magic
[19:33:02] <tjb1> yeah it is magic
[19:33:08] <tjb1> after this weekend im convinced
[19:33:13] <pfred1> well I dig that
[19:34:03] <pfred1> I make mechanical things to achieve goals and it's OK I guess
[19:34:21] <pfred1> but I don't like doing it nearly as much as I like fooling with electronics
[19:34:39] <pfred1> like I won't make mechanical stuff just for the fun of it
[19:34:47] <tjb1> that is the fun of it lol
[19:34:56] <r00t4rd3d> where the hell is the REPLY button in Google+
[19:34:59] <pfred1> nah I have to have a specific goal in mind
[19:35:03] <tjb1> who uses google+
[19:35:07] <pfred1> I do
[19:35:14] <tjb1> 2 people
[19:35:16] <pfred1> the reply appears when you hover over the comment
[19:35:24] <pfred1> normally it is hidden
[19:35:30] <r00t4rd3d> I dont see it anywhere
[19:35:34] <pfred1> it is by the +1
[19:35:38] <pfred1> to the right
[19:36:03] <pfred1> it should appear when your mouse is on the comment
[19:36:09] <pfred1> your cursor
[19:36:17] <r00t4rd3d> it doesnt show up
[19:36:26] <pfred1> are you logged in?
[19:36:31] <r00t4rd3d> i get the +1 and flag but thats it
[19:36:48] <pfred1> yeah it is right to the right of +1
[19:36:56] <pfred1> but it isn't there unless you put the mouse there
[19:37:24] <pfred1> you cna always + the username then pick it off the floating menu it gives you
[19:37:54] <pfred1> or here is another trick go to the user's page and get their ID number out of the URL then + that
[19:38:03] <pfred1> google will parse it int oa message to that user
[19:38:31] <pfred1> plussing a user ID always works
[19:40:25] <pfred1> one thing I can't figure out on google+ is how to opt out of what's hot
[19:40:28] <r00t4rd3d> ahh that workded
[19:40:52] <pfred1> you plussed their user ID number?
[19:41:11] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[19:41:16] <pfred1> that is handy if someone's name has some strange characters in it
[19:41:40] <pfred1> yeah plussing their ID is a neat trick
[19:43:15] <pfred1> ha I just figured out where to disable what's hot
[19:45:45] <r00t4rd3d> where ?
[19:46:15] <r00t4rd3d> ahh explore page
[19:46:17] <pfred1> go to the explore page then move the top slider al lthe way to the left
[19:46:19] <pfred1> yes
[19:46:43] <pfred1> last time I looked in my profile settings for it
[19:47:33] <pfred1> google+roll
[19:47:52] <r00t4rd3d> now how to remove the find people shit
[19:48:12] <pfred1> beats me no one i know has ever found me in google
[19:48:21] <pfred1> facebook scared the crap out of me!
[19:48:38] <pfred1> if i haven't talked to someone in over 20 years I probably have my reasons you know?
[19:53:36] <r00t4rd3d> do you live in delaware?
[19:53:56] <r00t4rd3d> cause I found your ass
[19:57:16] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d yes
[19:57:33] <pfred1> I am Paul Frederick on google+
[19:57:49] <pfred1> you cna add me but I rarely post anything i mostly troll other people's posts
[19:58:36] <pfred1> I mostly follow Linux news on google+
[20:01:15] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a android phone?
[20:02:15] <pfred1> no
[20:03:35] <r00t4rd3d> iphone?
[20:04:27] <pfred1> I don't have a mobile phone
[20:04:35] <pfred1> I never got in the habit
[20:04:35] <r00t4rd3d> WHAT THE FUCK
[20:05:12] <pfred1> I was older when mobile phones came out so I looked at it like I got this far without one
[20:05:31] <Aero-Tec> one last detail about the lathe
[20:06:03] <Aero-Tec> I got a new miller dynasty TIG welder
[20:06:29] <Aero-Tec> when the problems started it was right after doing some welding with the new welder
[20:07:50] <Aero-Tec> I am now thinking that the noise from the tig started the whole motor shorting problem
[20:08:44] <Aero-Tec> I was thinking it was the drives that got damaged from the TIG noise
[20:08:53] <pfred1> I have a miller econoTIG
[20:09:09] <Aero-Tec> that is what started the whole trip down the road I went down
[20:09:24] <pfred1> well when you electric weld stuff you should make sure you have disconnected circuit pathways
[20:09:35] <pfred1> like if you weld on a car disconnect the battery ground
[20:10:03] <pfred1> it saves you from possibly blowing out your alternator diodes
[20:10:35] <pfred1> but I guess the same applies to any machine make sure the path is open
[20:10:56] <pfred1> so there is no possibllity any current can flow in a circuit
[20:11:06] <Aero-Tec> would be a pain to unplug very thing to weld
[20:11:18] <pfred1> more of a pain to replace burnt out stuff
[20:11:27] <Aero-Tec> and the motor was switched off
[20:11:36] <pfred1> well motors are a special case
[20:11:46] <pfred1> they have coilk that can induce a current
[20:11:49] <pfred1> coils
[20:12:20] <pfred1> you know like a transformer can
[20:13:07] <Aero-Tec> being a reversible motor the off switch would have completely disconnected the motor from power, except the ground wire
[20:14:23] <Aero-Tec> the motor is encased in metal that shields the coils from stray induced noise
[20:14:37] <pfred1> if one leg of the motor is completely dicsonnected I can't see how it vould flow a current myself
[20:15:22] <pfred1> electric welding is some pretty nutty stuff though I hate to take chances
[20:15:34] <pfred1> ever try to weld by a magnet?
[20:15:45] <Aero-Tec> the motor is completely disconnected except for the ground wire when the motor is switched off
[20:15:53] <pfred1> man i got no idea why they sell those magnetic holders for welding
[20:16:08] <pfred1> any magnet totally messes up my TIG arc
[20:16:13] <r00t4rd3d> stick welding with a car battery is the best
[20:16:41] <pfred1> makes the arc waver all over the place
[20:17:25] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d yeah I said earlier whenever I electric weld on a car I always disconnect the battery ground
[20:17:43] <pfred1> I don't want people coming back saying I burned this or that out in their car on them
[20:18:04] <Aero-Tec> the wires going to the motor must have been enough of a antenna for the RF noise to arc the worn wire coatings
[20:18:30] <pfred1> I have burnt up some wires pretty badly welding
[20:18:35] <pfred1> but usually gas welding
[20:18:46] <pfred1> I fried one harness once
[20:18:53] <pfred1> I mean literally fried it
[20:18:54] <Aero-Tec> it must have been so close to burning through that the RF sig from the TIG punched through
[20:19:06] <pfred1> TIG is HF
[20:19:31] <Aero-Tec> yes and the weld is RF
[20:19:39] <Aero-Tec> the arcing
[20:19:48] <pfred1> my TIG converts to a stick
[20:19:59] <pfred1> and it is a sweet stick welder
[20:20:05] <Aero-Tec> try listening to a radio while someone is welding
[20:20:21] <pfred1> try listening to a radio anytime
[20:20:29] <Aero-Tec> arc welding that is
[20:20:30] <pfred1> here we got two kinds of music
[20:20:33] <pfred1> country and western
[20:20:49] <Aero-Tec> gas welding is no problem
[20:21:06] <pfred1> well gas welding can be a problem if distortion is an issue
[20:21:40] <pfred1> I started off gas welding but I was having a lot of distortion issues
[20:22:10] <pfred1> you have to pump a lot of heat into a metal with a flame to get it up to welding temps
[20:23:59] <pfred1> ever zap yourself really good with your TIG?
[20:41:27] <Xabster> pfred1, i installed 10.04 regular ubuntu on my machine and it found my sata controller - then i went through the steps to upgrade to linuxcnc as given on the site and then it lost the ability to detect my sata controller again
[20:41:36] <Xabster> do you remember me? :)
[20:41:43] <pfred1> yes
[20:41:59] <pfred1> it must be the kernel
[20:43:21] <Aero-Tec> no, I have never zapped myself with any of my welders
[22:07:55] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if fiberglass resin will adhere to ABS?
[22:08:31] <pfred1> probably if you scuff it
[22:08:41] <Jymmm> cool
[22:08:41] <pfred1> fiberglass resin sticks to pretty much everything
[22:09:06] <pfred1> I won't even get near the stuff unless i Have acetone
[22:10:58] <Jymmm> I have a gallon of acetone =)
[22:12:10] <pfred1> yeah don't go near fiberglass resin without it
[22:12:23] <pfred1> stuff is nasty!
[22:12:54] <Jymmm> heh, I'll be sure to wear a respirator too
[22:12:57] <pfred1> whenever I fiberglass anything I get hands like sasquach
[22:13:29] <pfred1> the fumes never bothered me
[22:14:02] <pfred1> you do have to be a little careful putting the hardener into the resin sometimes
[22:14:20] <pfred1> a buddy of mine that worked at a boat yard tells me the reaction can run away
[22:14:47] <Jymmm> ah, good to know, I'll do small atches at a time
[22:14:48] <pfred1> he says he's seen pots of resin burst into flame
[22:15:02] <Jymmm> lovely
[22:15:12] <pfred1> using too little hardener isn't good either
[22:15:24] <Jymmm> I have a gram scale
[22:15:25] <pfred1> I've had the stuff take days to setup
[22:16:01] <pfred1> well I'd tend to err on too much rather than too little
[22:16:22] <pfred1> to get the resin to flame yo ureally got to dump a lot of hardener into it
[22:16:49] <pfred1> oh and they don't give you enough catalyist t oreally kick off the resin either buy more
[22:17:12] <pfred1> I always get a big tube extra
[22:17:37] <pfred1> I mix in an aluminum pop can and you can feel it heating up
[22:17:43] <pfred1> like i tear the can in half
[22:17:47] <pfred1> then mix in that
[22:18:00] <pfred1> some hot is good
[22:18:06] <Jymmm> yeah
[22:18:27] <Jymmm> It's just to re-enforce an ABS coupler
[22:18:46] <Jymmm> they are super thin
[22:18:55] <pfred1> yeah if the resin doesn't just stick to the plastic I can't imagine it not sticking if you scuff it
[22:19:26] <pfred1> I've seen fiberglass resin stick to waxed surfaces
[22:19:31] <Jymmm> easy enoug to just grab some 80grit and have at it
[22:19:37] <Jymmm> heh
[22:20:04] <pfred1> if nothing else the stuff is sticky
[22:20:43] <Jymmm> can I brush on the resin?
[22:20:49] <pfred1> that is how I do it
[22:20:54] <Jymmm> k
[22:21:01] <pfred1> I use either a china or an acid brush
[22:21:13] <pfred1> depends how much glassing I'm doing
[22:21:19] <Jymmm> I guess I'll have to do it it two parts one for each half
[22:21:34] <Jymmm> turn it over, do the over side
[22:22:12] <pfred1> hmmm once you get that resin and glass on stuff I don't know best to figure out a way to do it all at once
[22:22:20] <pfred1> like suspend the work from a wire or something
[22:22:40] <Jymmm> or a small section of pipe
[22:22:51] <Jymmm> as a handle
[22:22:57] <pfred1> some way you can do it all glass is best in one piece
[22:23:03] <pfred1> like the fibers
[22:23:15] <Jymmm> ah, so it doesn't drip all that much?
[22:23:15] <pfred1> mat or weave?
[22:23:22] <pfred1> well it is gonna drip
[22:23:29] <Jymmm> haven't bought anything yet
[22:23:44] <pfred1> well you have fiberglassed before haven't you?
[22:23:51] <Jymmm> nope
[22:24:00] <pfred1> oh well it does take some getting used to
[22:24:16] <pfred1> the glass starts out real stiff but when you soak it it becomes moldable
[22:24:38] <Jymmm> Yeah, i figured. I'm mostly conserned about the finish. I dont need glass spikes
[22:24:46] <pfred1> you have to learn how to tamp the air out too you sort of pounce it with the brush
[22:24:54] <pfred1> well
[22:25:13] <Jymmm> I know you fold the edge under and press it down.
[22:25:17] <pfred1> it is hard to guarantee a smooth glass finish whout sanding after it sets up
[22:25:33] <pfred1> OK do this
[22:25:44] <pfred1> cut your glass pieces out and fit them dry
[22:25:56] <pfred1> use scissors to cut the glass
[22:26:25] <pfred1> I'm not going to lie once you get that resin going it gets pretty crazy
[22:27:13] <pfred1> because the glass itself gets pretty limp and wants to flow and stuff
[22:27:32] <Jymmm> k
[22:27:41] <pfred1> and you're playing beat the clock for it setting up
[22:28:13] <pfred1> while you have hands all gooped up i mean I don't use gloves but you might want to
[22:28:26] <tjb1> fiberglass cloth is about impossible to mold to a compound surface
[22:28:33] <pfred1> when i say I get hands like sasquach I'm not kidding
[22:28:46] <Jymmm> heh
[22:28:48] <pfred1> yeah the mat is better
[22:29:07] <pfred1> you'd think the cloth would bat down better but it really doesn't
[22:29:31] <tjb1> if you are making a mold…wax 10 times after you think you put enough wax on :)
[22:29:45] <Jymmm> http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/fiberglass_fabrics
[22:30:18] <pfred1> once the resin hits the mat it is all sort of like a fluid together
[22:30:42] <tjb1> mix your resin hot ;)
[22:31:01] <pfred1> well I just figure I'll machine it after it sets up
[22:31:17] <pfred1> I don't get too hung up on what it is like before it hardens
[22:31:36] <tjb1> pfred1: Do you use cabasil?
[22:31:52] <Jymmm> Yeah, I just dont winat fiberglass fiber drifting in the air or on my skin
[22:31:53] <pfred1> I use bondo brand I think
[22:32:06] <pfred1> acetone takes it right off
[22:32:16] <tjb1> and acetone burns nicely too
[22:32:27] <Jymmm> tjb1: not me
[22:32:39] <pfred1> well yeah don't smoke while you're doing this no open flames
[22:32:47] <tjb1> I meant the skin
[22:32:53] <pfred1> oh it doesn't burn me
[22:33:00] <pfred1> dries me out
[22:33:05] <Jymmm> acetone doens't burn my skin either.
[22:33:07] <tjb1> Maybe I put too much on...
[22:33:14] <Jymmm> I wash my hands it it
[22:33:17] <tjb1> Erm no it wasnt acetone, it was goof off
[22:33:20] <pfred1> nah i can soak in it heck girls use it to take off their nail polish
[22:33:24] <tjb1> and stain remover
[22:33:28] <pfred1> how bad can it be?
[22:33:30] <Jymmm> goof off is napatha
[22:33:35] <tjb1> Gel stain remover burns
[22:34:02] <tjb1> I didnt cover my arms when we primed our drywall…I had little white dots all over me
[22:34:06] <pfred1> acetone is highly flammable though
[22:34:16] <pfred1> stuff makes gasoline look like something you'd use to put a fire out
[22:34:28] <Jymmm> pfred1: Nuh Uh... Here let me shoe you.. POOF!
[22:35:17] <pfred1> protection is often the best cure but when I fiberglass i just figure I'm going to get the stuff on my hands
[22:35:39] <pfred1> I've tried to use gloves they just make it worse
[22:42:28] <pfred1> this is the middle of one glassing job I did
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/38/201nq.jpg
[22:43:06] <pfred1> my holy truck
[22:47:19] <Jymmm> what year?
[22:47:35] <pfred1> 1983
[22:47:48] <Jymmm> really? looks MUCH older
[22:48:01] <pfred1> well it is an 83
[22:48:09] <pfred1> looked newer after I painted it
[22:48:21] <Jymmm> I had an 85 F150, it didn't look that old =)
[22:48:30] <Jymmm> no 84 F150
[22:48:59] <pfred1> you live in california don't you?
[22:49:09] <Jymmm> yeah, no road salt
[22:49:16] <pfred1> yes
[22:49:32] <pfred1> I love to go 4 wheeling in my yoda too
[22:49:52] <pfred1> i like to hit the roads before they get plowed or salted
[22:50:38] <pfred1> once it snowed 48 inches and I even drove through that
[22:50:46] <pfred1> I couldn't believe it it was up to the hood
[22:51:29] <Jymmm> lol
[22:52:45] <pfred1> I put some sweet michelin tires on that truck and it blows my mind how good it is in the snow
[22:53:04] <pfred1> I pass jeeps!
[22:53:39] <pfred1> like you're out on a sunny day
[23:51:27] <tjb1> Here is a smexy video of my THC working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRBCV_OhEoY
[23:52:20] <pfred1> THC?
[23:52:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: pot, weed, maryjane
[23:53:01] <Jymmm> pfred1: (Torch Height Controller)
[23:53:07] <pfred1> Tetrahydrocannabinol
[23:53:11] <tjb1> second option
[23:53:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: exactly
[23:54:05] <pfred1> I knew a guy who made all kinds of crazy machines and he made the craziest trug paraphenalia you could ever imagine too
[23:54:16] <Jymmm> lol
[23:54:22] <pfred1> no for real
[23:54:34] <Jymmm> I believe you
[23:54:48] <Jymmm> I bet I've seen worse =)
[23:54:59] <pfred1> he made this one pipe called the distributor that was programmable
[23:55:01] <Jymmm> ligthtbulb crack pipe
[23:55:34] <pfred1> there was a gear with a magnet attached to it that would lift steel ball bearings out of seats
[23:55:45] <pfred1> it was quite involved
[23:55:55] <Jymmm> heh
[23:56:07] <pfred1> there were even LED lights at the ends of the hoses so people could know it was their turn
[23:56:38] <pfred1> it took him like a year to build
[23:56:41] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[23:58:18] <pfred1> when he hooked it up to refrigeration I mean he had this umbillical cord running through his house it looked liek an astronaut was lost or something
[23:58:54] <Jymmm> ever tell him to GET A LIFE?
[23:58:55] <pfred1> so I'd be very surprised if you've seen worse
[23:59:19] <Jymmm> I said worse, not creative =)
[23:59:29] <tjb1> As much as tv costs…how about they put decent tv on at night
[23:59:42] <pfred1> he is a retired multimillionaire
[23:59:45] <Jymmm> tjb1: PBS
