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[00:27:07] <tjb1> Tom_itx: You here?
[00:59:01] <tjb1> Anyone doing a build…do NOT use solid wire...
[00:59:04] <tjb1> I could shoot myself
[01:10:15] <Shadowtec> o/
[01:13:26] <tjb1> o/?
[02:11:43] <DJ9DJ> moin
[09:18:09] <JT-Shop> yep
[09:40:57] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: drives off
http://imagebin.org/235449
[09:41:20] <JT-Shop> drives on
http://imagebin.org/235451
[09:42:14] <JT-Shop> scope ground on PC case, probe on 7i77 ground TB2 pin 8
[09:44:05] <pcw_home> what is the scope vertical scale? (volts/div)
[09:46:02] <pcw_home> also a sanity check is to connect both scope gnd and probe to PC case
[09:46:11] <archivist> and is it a x10 probe
[09:46:55] <JT-Shop> 1 v/div and yes a 10x probe
[09:47:35] <JT-Shop> both gnd and probe connected to the pc is flat line
[09:48:05] <JT-Shop> adding a ground wire from the pc to the backplane of the el cabinet reduced the trace by 1/2
[09:49:09] <JT-Shop> all 120v items are plugged into the same plug strip
[09:49:17] <JT-Shop> the drives are noisy for sure
[09:49:41] <JT-Shop> the only other power is the 240v single phase to the VFD
[09:50:00] <pcw_home> Yeah the a pretty large about of noise across a shielded cable
[09:50:33] <pcw_home> s/the/thats/
[09:50:46] <andypugh> Tektronix scopes know when they have a 10x Tekronix probe attaged (that extra ring round the BNC socket)
[09:51:03] <pcw_home> with tek probes
[09:51:25] <archivist> if they have a tek lead with the right bnc on it
[09:52:08] <archivist> but I see from the onscreen that the peak detect is set rather slow possibly
[09:52:50] <pcw_home> do you somehow have the cable shield grounded to the el cabinet?
[09:54:32] <pcw_home> (at the 7I77 end)
[09:59:08] <JT-Shop> the shield is connected to the GND pin on TB5
[09:59:09] <andypugh> Should the 7i77 be on insulated or conductive mounting posts?
[09:59:32] <JT-Shop> the other end is neatly covered with heat shrink tubing
[10:01:43] <JT-Shop> one with peakdet faster
http://imagebin.org/235453
[10:03:28] <pcw_home> The mounting holes are isolated so either is fine
[10:04:15] <pcw_home> heat shrink?
[10:06:14] <pcw_home> the shield (DB25 shell) should connect to both the 5I25 bracket/PC case and 7I77 GND
[10:07:58] <JT-Shop> the drive input cable is covered with heat shrink on the drive end so only the + and - wires are exposed
[10:09:01] <pcw_home> OK, I was asking if the DB25 shell is grounded at the 7I77 end somehow
[10:11:14] <JT-Shop> I added studs to the 7i77 so the DB25 screws have something to thread into
[10:12:10] <pcw_home> You can also probe the DB25 shield at the 7I77 end, and the PC (5I25) end to see if the noise is truly across the cable shield/twisted pair GNDs or there a open at either end (bracket to case at 5I25 end?)
[10:12:12] <pcw_home>
[10:13:08] <pcw_home> But it does sound like bonding the PC case to GND may be the solution (unless you want to try some ferrite)
[10:13:24] <pcw_home> bbl
[10:13:30] <JT-Shop> ok
[10:14:24] <pcw_home> if thats not enough next step is bond 7I77 to GND (strap under DB25 studs)
[10:15:24] <andypugh> <several steps later> Immerse all components in a grounded tank of mercury...
[10:15:39] <pcw_home> If thats not enough a common mode choke on 7I77 encoder leads may be needed
[10:16:09] <pcw_home> (giant ferrite bead, one per encoder)
[10:16:21] <JT-Shop> one thing I noticed is the drive power 0vdc is not grounded
http://imagebin.org/235455
[10:17:01] <pcw_home> Thats probably for the best
[10:17:34] <JT-Shop> ok, didn't know
[10:19:07] <pcw_home> If all else fails as andy about the sserial errors a occasional one should be maskable
[10:19:16] <pcw_home> ask andy
[10:19:45] <pcw_home> really bbl
[10:19:59] <JT-Shop> ok
[10:20:20] <JT-Shop> from the pc ground to the 7i77 db25 shell is pretty clean
[10:54:14] <andypugh> Love this profile picture:
http://www.facebook.com/neil.ronketti
[11:12:17] <archivist> is he hoping to get responsible work :)
[11:34:11] <archivist> so can I trust this idiots measuring fleabay 181017344864
[11:35:04] <archivist> his answer for the bore is "around 3/8 or 10mm"
[11:36:07] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[11:36:12] <Loetmichel> so what?
[11:36:31] <Loetmichel> buy them and ream the diameter to something fitting ;-)
[11:36:59] <archivist> 10mm is too loose
[11:45:32] <archivist> I dont have a deckel or no4 morse 251179373631
[12:00:35] <IchGuckLive> hi All
[12:04:14] <andypugh> archivist: Easily (though not cheaply fixed)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221151065803
[12:04:23] <tjb1> Got my plasma x axis up to 1500 ipm last night :)
[12:04:43] <archivist> andypugh, I saw that the other day :)
[12:04:52] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: Whow stepper or servo
[12:04:58] <tjb1> Stepper
[12:05:35] <IchGuckLive> hope you did not lost stepps
[12:06:11] <tjb1> I wasnt running it at 1500, just seeing what it could do
[12:06:36] <IchGuckLive> controller is mesa
[12:07:01] <tjb1> gecko g540
[12:07:28] <IchGuckLive> nice what latency you got on the pc
[12:07:55] <tjb1> I think the base period was set at about 20k
[12:08:19] <IchGuckLive> ok and the scale is
[12:08:50] <tjb1> I would have to look it up
[12:09:36] <tjb1> base period is 16k
[12:09:45] <tjb1> x scale is 1737
[12:11:59] <IchGuckLive> can you get your timing to here ->
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[12:12:22] <tjb1> You want the timing?
[12:12:59] <IchGuckLive> no the Gecko 540 is not in this list
[12:13:16] <IchGuckLive> i think stepconf has it
[12:13:17] <tjb1> The gecko g540 is 4 gecko drives
[12:14:05] <tjb1> http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g540.html
[12:14:47] <archivist> andypugh, another toy for the garage if everything else was moved out 120995422866
[12:16:01] <andypugh> That's lovely. But postage would be a killer.
[12:16:36] <archivist> postman would struggle at that weight
[12:17:23] <archivist> must stop dreaming of toys and make something
[12:17:48] <IchGuckLive> i se at the calculation with 18k Base and stepgen.steplen/stepspace/dirsetup/dirhold set to 1 a max of 27.5ksteps/sec
[12:19:46] <IchGuckLive> that gives me a 15.8inch per sec = 950inch pewr min save rate
[12:21:33] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive, what's your servo period?
[12:21:33] <tjb1> I have 16k base
[12:22:05] <IchGuckLive> servo period on steppper not requirerd
[12:22:10] <Tom_itx> iirc you don't use base period with mesa cards
[12:22:21] <Tom_itx> i was told different
[12:22:56] <SWPadnos> servo thread is always necessary, base thread may or may not be needed
[12:22:57] <IchGuckLive> i only go max 800mm/min on my education mashines
[12:23:36] <Tom_itx> check my ini and see if it looks ok then...
[12:23:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/sherline.ini
[12:23:50] <Tom_itx> servo period seems kinda high to me
[12:23:52] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[12:24:04] <IchGuckLive> always 1mio on steppers
[12:25:08] <Tom_itx> mine works good but if i can get better performance...
[12:25:09] <SWPadnos> that's a 1ms servo period, which is normal
[12:25:52] <Tom_itx> no need for a base period?
[12:26:11] <Tom_itx> 7i43 7i47
[12:26:25] <SWPadnos> I don't know at this point. There used to be a time when the base period still had to be specified, but you just wouldn't put any functions in it
[12:26:42] <Jymmm> Hi SWPadnos
[12:26:45] <Tom_itx> iirc PCW said i don't need it
[12:26:49] <SWPadnos> and it can be 1/2 or 1/10 the servo period (or the same, I think), it doesn't have to be really fast
[12:26:49] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: 800mm/min IS VERY slow. even my small 200*110mm mill has 1500mm G0... and that is slow as well
[12:26:53] <SWPadnos> hi Jymmm
[12:27:11] <Loetmichel> (have to upgrade my PSU to 40V, than F3000 will be possible)
[12:27:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Still alive I see =)
[12:27:32] <SWPadnos> yep, at least I have that going for me :)
[12:27:37] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: its enove to ram the tool in the plate
[12:27:48] <IchGuckLive> Students love to break the tool
[12:27:54] <IchGuckLive> savty first
[12:28:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Good to hear, as the alternative would be purchasing 6ft of real estate, and not a good thing in this economy... Wouldn't want to be forclosed upon
[12:28:43] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, got a question for you. I have an old HD image from an 8G drive, and I have some new computers with 32G drives instead. I had made a script to prep new drives using partimage, parted, grub-install, etc, but it doesn't seem to work on the 32G drives
[12:28:57] <SWPadnos> yeah, they charge a lot for depth
[12:29:21] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: its even enough to weld the TC bit to the vise ;-) (BTDT ;-)
[12:30:05] <IchGuckLive> the tool is not flying very far Loetmichel at that speed
[12:30:34] <andypugh> You don't need a base period, but I think Motion always creates one.
[12:30:38] * Loetmichel hat moved sideways with the tool shaft into the vice
[12:30:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: not sure why you need ALL that; are you restoting an image or doing a fresh install on the 32g drives?
[12:30:54] <SWPadnos> the failure mode is either (a) it hangs or eventually reboots without printing anything, (b) prints GRUB repeatedly, or (c) says "no system disk or disk error, insert disk to continue"
[12:31:04] <SWPadnos> restoring an image
[12:31:11] <Loetmichel> steppers stopped, but pressure was enough to weld the mill bit @ 24krpm to the vice
[12:31:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: then why parted?
[12:31:41] <Loetmichel> in a split second
[12:31:53] <SWPadnos> the drives are IDE, so there's a weirdness there since all my current systems are SATA (so the drive names are different)
[12:32:06] <Loetmichel> it has gone from red to white hot, then "esc", spindle stoppend: bit welded to the vice
[12:32:07] <SWPadnos> parted to make the partition the size of the disk
[12:32:07] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[12:32:16] <SWPadnos> if I dd the 8G image to the 32G drive, it works
[12:32:21] <SWPadnos> so I have that as a fallback
[12:32:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: these are all signle partition images?
[12:32:48] <SWPadnos> I think I can dd the whole image, resize the partition, then resize2fs, which is what I'm in the process of trying now
[12:32:51] <SWPadnos> yes
[12:32:59] <SWPadnos> one image, many computers
[12:33:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, this is what I've always done....
[12:33:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: create two IMG files... 1) using partimage, 2) Using dd to backup the MBR.
[12:34:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Restorre the img file to the new drive using partimage
[12:34:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Restore the MBR using dd
[12:35:02] <SWPadnos> hmm. maybe I had the order backwards
[12:35:19] <SWPadnos> do you have any need for grub-install?
[12:35:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Then use parted/gparted to resize the partition to utilize the extra space on the new hdd (if you want)
[12:35:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: nope, never.
[12:36:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm, ok. I'll take a look at the order I did things. I think I made the partitions, used grub-install, restored the partition (but maybe not the whole disk) with parted, then resized the partition, then resize2fs ...
[12:36:39] <SWPadnos> thanks
[12:36:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Backup MBR: dd if=/dev/hdx of=/path/to/image count=1 bs=512
[12:36:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I usually name the file *.mbr
[12:37:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and it's only 512 BYTES =)
[12:37:20] <SWPadnos> sure, got a few of those :)
[12:37:24] <SWPadnos> yeah
[12:37:36] <SWPadnos> vbindiff is your friend, by the way
[12:37:39] <SWPadnos> and ghex
[12:37:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: in partimage, I do NOT use compression, take too long.
[12:38:24] <SWPadnos> it seems OK on the restore, though the backup does take a while
[12:38:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: shouldn't
[12:38:46] <SWPadnos> so the partimage backup is the partition only, not the whole disk?
[12:39:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: partimage == partition image, not disk image =)
[12:39:21] <SWPadnos> I think there's an option to do the whole disk
[12:39:35] <SWPadnos> but you're right, and that may be why I have parted in the prep script :)
[12:39:46] <SWPadnos> I wrote it 2 years ago, and haven't thought about it since then :)
[12:40:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I would not recommend multiple partitions if you dont have to. It's just a PITA
[12:40:55] <SWPadnos> right, it's an SSD which gets mounted RO in the actual system, so there's no big issue with keeping boot separate or anything
[12:41:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Also, dont create an 10GB img file from a (lets say) 40GB hdd and attempt to restore it to a 30GB hdd, even though the img file is only 10gb, it doens't like it.
[12:41:50] <SWPadnos> yep, you can go one way but not the other
[12:42:00] <SWPadnos> you'd be missing some important inodes
[12:42:11] <Jymmm> well, emty ones
[12:42:22] <Jymmm> partimage doens't backup empty space
[12:42:28] <Jymmm> dd does
[12:43:29] <SWPadnos> sure, but the superblocks are distributed around the disk, and some might fall off the end if you restore to a smaller disk
[12:44:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I use
http://sysresccd.org/ It has all the tools and even connectivity
[12:45:21] <SWPadnos> oh, I have a laptop (the craptop ;) ) with all the image files and the USB->PATA adapter
[12:45:51] <Jymmm> ok
[12:46:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Usualy I have dead systems with no bootable, so LiveUSB works for me. Also in case soemthing is fubar
[12:47:02] <SWPadnos> yep
[12:47:20] <SWPadnos> these are new systems though, I'm just trying to prep them in 5 minutes each instead of an hour
[12:47:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It can read most any file system too
[12:47:33] <SWPadnos> that hasn't worked out too well so far
[12:48:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: grab a couple usb sticks and create that link
[12:49:00] <SWPadnos> yeah, an 8 or 16 GB USB stick could prep the disks in the machines, which could be nice
[12:49:08] <IchGuckLive> ARE you folks using the live system also on the D525
[12:49:17] <SWPadnos> or 4G if I use the compressed image
[12:49:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: dont compresss unless you want to be there forever
[12:49:52] <SWPadnos> restores take about 2-3 minutes on my laptop
[12:49:59] <SWPadnos> so the compression doesn't seem to be an issue
[12:50:24] <SWPadnos> that's for ~3GB of data over USB, on an 8G partition
[12:50:26] <Jymmm> but you're not going to be booting from your laptop =)
[12:50:50] <SWPadnos> err - the images are compressed, but it uncompresses for the restore, no?
[12:51:22] <SWPadnos> or are you talking about sysresccd?
[12:51:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yes, but youre restoring on an atom board, not some obscene quad core craptop
[12:51:43] <SWPadnos> no, I do the restore on the laptop, then put the drive in the machine
[12:51:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: no need
[12:51:54] <SWPadnos> which is a dual-core core2 anyway
[12:52:08] <SWPadnos> sure, with a USB stick I could do the restore on the machine itself
[12:52:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Get a few usb sticks and restore to all of the boxes at the same time
[12:52:27] <SWPadnos> but that doesn't help much, since I need to open the machine to install a 5i22 anyway
[12:52:39] <SWPadnos> if only I had that many outlets and monitors ;)
[12:52:53] <SWPadnos> or do net restore from the laptop
[12:53:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: if you set it up right, you dont have to. It also has remote headless iface
[12:53:14] <Jymmm> network
[12:53:15] <SWPadnos> ^^
[12:53:38] <Jymmm> no , more terminal iface
[12:54:21] <SWPadnos> ssh to computer running from USB stick, run partimage from there, pulling image from laptop
[12:54:23] <SWPadnos> :)
[12:54:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ignore your laptop completely
[12:54:52] <Jymmm> take it out of the picture
[12:54:56] <SWPadnos> sure, that's one way to do it
[12:55:22] <SWPadnos> but then I have to create scripts that run automatically from the USB stick, or I need a monitor/keyboard to start the process
[12:55:40] <SWPadnos> once I've created the USB stick with the image
[12:55:55] <Jymmm> No, sysresccd creates an sshd
[12:56:17] <SWPadnos> but that's not really a help here, since there are hardware and serial number logging tasks I have to do, which take about the same amount of time as the disk prep
[12:56:46] <SWPadnos> oh, you may be missing one thing - the original image is on the laptop, so I can't *completely* ignore ir
[12:56:48] <SWPadnos> it
[12:56:57] <Jymmm> we werent taking about your serial number and other hw installations
[12:57:08] <SWPadnos> no, we weren't
[12:57:20] <Jymmm> you create a 2nd partitiion on the usb stick for the img file
[12:57:32] <Jymmm> which sysresccd reads from
[12:57:59] <SWPadnos> sure
[12:58:06] <Jymmm> You can even have multiple img files/versions
[12:58:18] <SWPadnos> yep, space permitting
[12:58:56] <SWPadnos> I could do it with a hard drive in a USB enclosure as well (I don't have any USB sticks of the right size that I can blow away at the moment)
[12:59:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos:
http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_How_to_personalize_SystemRescueCd
[13:01:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: whatever works for you
[13:01:32] <SWPadnos> yep. thanks for the pointers
[13:01:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Though if you are installing HW I'm not sure ow you are going to test it withut a lcd/kybd
[13:02:35] <SWPadnos> yep. that's why fully automating isn't a priority at the moment
[13:03:03] <SWPadnos> just getting it so that the disk prep is automatic and results in a bootable hard drive is enough for me
[13:03:14] <SWPadnos> I only have to prep 8 computers, so it's not a huge issue
[13:04:07] <Jymmm> not even worth writting a script for
[13:04:42] <SWPadnos> no, that's worthwhile so I can do the hardware stuff while the hard drive is out of the machine and attached to the laptop :)
[13:05:28] <Jymmm> not really, just do the first, swap hdd, up arrow twice ENTER, lather rinse repeat
[13:07:05] <SWPadnos> hmmm. in your description of what you do, you say to restore the image using partimage before you restore the MBR using dd. Did you skip creating the partition (with parted or whatever) on purpose?
[13:07:25] <Jymmm> yep
[13:07:36] <SWPadnos> the last step in your list is to optionally resize the partitions using parted
[13:07:54] <Jymmm> I used gpated, same diff
[13:07:55] <SWPadnos> so it's OK to restore a partimage backup to a drive, then replace the MBR ??
[13:08:04] <SWPadnos> sure, script vs. GUI
[13:08:32] <SWPadnos> seems like you'd be a sector off or partimage wouldn't know where to put the data or something
[13:08:37] <Jymmm> partimage funkily does MBR restore. It has the option, but doesn't always work.
[13:09:07] <Jymmm> dd backup/resotre of MBR ALWAYS worked.
[13:09:20] <SWPadnos> ok, and it has the MBR information in the partimage backup?
[13:09:40] <SWPadnos> (or at least enough information to fake it sometimes)
[13:09:43] <Jymmm> no, a seperate file, remember *.MBR
[13:10:05] <Jymmm> two files needed to restore
[13:10:15] <Jymmm> .img and .mbr
[13:10:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. I thought the mbr backup was from dd
[13:10:47] <SWPadnos> so you have two, one from partimage and one from dd
[13:10:51] <Jymmm> it's created/restored using dd
[13:10:57] <Jymmm> correct
[13:11:38] <Jymmm> backup mbr: dd if=/dev/hdx of=/path/to/image count=1 bs=512
[13:11:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, that one I have and use
[13:11:52] <Jymmm> restore mbr: dd if=/path/to/image of=/dev/hdx
[13:12:44] <Jymmm> It'll backup/restore the mbr so fast that you will think it didn't do anything.
[13:13:21] <Jymmm> it'll take you longer to type the command than it does to do the comand =)
[13:13:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:14:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it looks like this version of partimage automatically saves the MBR. do you know how to tell if an image file contains the MBR?
[13:14:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: What did I say?
[13:15:00] <SWPadnos> you said several things
[13:15:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I said that partimage has the option to backup/restore the mbr, but it doens't always work.
[13:15:16] <SWPadnos> exactly
[13:15:25] <Jymmm> so DONT TRY IT
[13:15:36] <Jymmm> dd works 100% of the time
[13:15:44] <SWPadnos> except in this case
[13:15:49] <Jymmm> so DONT TRY IT
[13:16:08] <SWPadnos> but the real problem might be that I do the partimage restore after the dd MBR restore
[13:16:13] <SWPadnos> so I'll fix that
[13:16:29] <Jymmm> partimage, then dd mbr
[13:17:22] <Jymmm> partimage write funky shit to the mbr
[13:17:48] <Jymmm> thus the dd AFTER partimage restore
[13:17:52] <SWPadnos> sure
[13:18:13] <SWPadnos> presumably you only use the drive name in the partimage command, since there's no partition table yet
[13:18:22] <Jymmm> to clear out the crap that partimage writes to the mbr that prevents it from booting.
[13:19:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: KISS
[13:19:26] <Jymmm> it's not that complicated
[13:19:29] <SWPadnos> yes, I understand the idea, it's the details I'm working on now ;)
[13:19:31] <Jymmm> dont make it so
[13:19:44] <SWPadnos> partimage restore /dev/sdb blah blah
[13:19:57] <SWPadnos> dd if=mymbrfile of=/dev/sdb bs count ...
[13:20:04] <SWPadnos> parted resize (optional)
[13:20:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: if you are using a usb to sata adapter, the device is going to change dynamically
[13:20:12] <SWPadnos> resize2fs (optional)
[13:20:20] <SWPadnos> understood
[13:20:32] <Jymmm> just do it manually
[13:20:38] <SWPadnos> but it's always /dev/sdb for me, since I'm only doing one drive at a time
[13:21:04] <Jymmm> doesn't matter, it cna change on the fly
[13:21:53] <Jymmm> just swapping to the 3rd it can become /dev/sde
[13:23:03] <SWPadnos> err - I'm smart enough to not plug in other USB drives when this process is running ;)
[13:23:32] <Jymmm> not while running, after it's done and you move on to the next one.
[13:23:57] <andypugh> But are you dumb enough not to get totally bored and stop conetrating on iteration 6 of 8?
[13:24:16] <SWPadnos> I never concentrate
[13:24:26] <SWPadnos> so yes, I am dumb enough for that
[13:25:11] <Jymmm> and when dealing with dd you dont want the device to change to /dev/sda on ya, ot you really will have a craptop =)
[13:25:32] <Jymmm> or a DOAtop =)
[13:25:59] <andypugh> A notebook (if you stick paper to the screen)
[13:26:02] <SWPadnos> well, the laptop has SATA drives, so the script specifically checks to see if that's the target, and refuses to run if so
[13:26:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm just telling you the SAFE way to do it.
[13:26:32] <andypugh> Jymmm: I think you should try to be more patronising.
[13:26:59] <Jymmm> andypugh: thats your job.
[13:27:15] <andypugh> No, I defer to your superior skill :-)
[13:29:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: scripts fubar, Do you ant to be 1000 miles form nowhere with a dead laptop? realize I do this with stacks of systems sitting on a bench and liveBoot them from USB hdd's, away from my "real" systems
[13:29:53] <SWPadnos> I'm at home, so it's OK
[13:30:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: It's nothing to be doing six concurrently.
[13:30:02] <SWPadnos> plus this is the older laptop, not my new one
[13:30:13] <SWPadnos> well, I have that hardware thing, remember ...
[13:30:36] <Jymmm> to install a card that take 30s?
[13:33:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and since when does mobo have SN's?
[13:33:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you getting fancy on me now?
[13:33:52] <SWPadnos> I'm recording the SN of the computer in a spreadsheet, and it takes a little while to install the card since this is a small industrial computer
[13:35:03] <Jymmm> ah
[13:36:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you could just create a pxe server that does all that for you =)
[13:36:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and no robotic arm to install the card?! tsk tsk tsk
[13:37:20] <mrsun> replacing cv-joint ... now thats a messy job =)
[13:37:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:38:40] <mrsun> atleast the car doesnt crackle when i turn anymore =)
[13:38:47] <mrsun> so hopefully i did something right
[13:39:12] <Jymmm> Oh hey.... have you guys seen any "clips" that can SECURELY attach to a (solid) wire?
[13:39:45] <Jymmm> this isn't perm
[13:39:58] <Jymmm> likea durable test/tap clip
[13:40:37] <Jymmm> all I can find are the spring loaded hook clips
[13:42:31] <SWPadnos> if an alligator clip isn't enough, then a screw terminal of some sort is probably your best bet
[13:42:46] <Jymmm> I need this hook, but in a smaller overall version
http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/TL741.jpg
[13:43:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: this is tapping into the middle of a coil
[13:44:46] <Jymmm> a stubby version of that could work
[13:45:22] <SWPadnos> yeah. if that type of clip isn't good enough, then you would need something pretty expensive to get much more reliable
[13:45:38] <Jymmm> such as?
[13:45:42] <SWPadnos> or at least I don't know of any inexpensive alternatives that I would expect to work any better
[13:46:15] <SWPadnos> oh, I don't know of any specific once, I'm just thinking that you'd need a couple of springy leaf contacts, so if there were any vibration at least one would stay in contact
[13:46:23] <SWPadnos> s/once/ones/
[13:46:33] <mrsun> Jymmm, for measuring or branching the wire off or what is it supposed to be used for ?
[13:46:34] <andypugh> Jymmm:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/SMD-Test-clips-63859
[13:47:43] <andypugh> 1.2mm probe diameter, good for wires up to 0.6mm
[13:48:13] <andypugh> Designed for 0.8mm pitch leads
[13:49:42] <mrsun> http://www.biltema.se/ProductImages/44/large/44-035_l.jpg permanent
[13:50:21] <Jymmm> No, not perm =)
[13:51:12] <andypugh> Jymmm: Even smaller:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Challenger-clip-67848
[13:51:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: but it's spring loaded, and I dont think strong enough
[13:54:30] <andypugh> http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/4521-2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt6TxecXUIS9hsaGMVHajqkFOPdedTlAuM%3d
[13:55:50] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzaLdfcPOyI
[13:56:09] <Loetmichel> the pomoma have the tendency to melt if more than 1 or 2 amps are drawn over it
[13:56:25] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 100W RF =)
[13:58:37] <Jymmm> Eh, I guess I'll use one of these bad boys
http://sigma.octopart.com/10250271/image/Mueller-BU-27C.jpg
[13:58:48] <Jymmm> that should handle 75MPH =)
[14:00:32] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I think I might have foud em
http://www.eham.net/data/classifieds/images/373685.jpg
[14:02:04] <kwallace> Has anyone tried rigid tapping with pecking? I've only done tapping in one cycle on my HNC, but it just came to mind that I usually peck when I tap by hand.
[14:02:21] <alex_joni> different taps for hand tapping and for machine tapping
[14:02:35] <alex_joni> if you use a hand tap, then it might make sense to peck
[14:03:20] <Loetmichel> i use machine taps also for hadn tapping
[14:03:42] <Loetmichel> and skip the pecking
[14:04:11] <kwallace> There is _no_ situation where peck tapping would be needed with CNC?
[14:05:04] <Loetmichel> kwallace: wiht the right taps: no
[14:05:21] <andypugh> kwallace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAcFeVlftrw
[14:06:54] <Tom_itx> kwallace, probably not
[14:06:59] <Tom_itx> spiral point taps for cnc
[14:07:12] <Tom_itx> pushes the shavings ahead of the tap
[14:07:33] <Tom_itx> unless you got a blind hole
[14:07:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3031 <- like the right one
[14:07:52] <Loetmichel> i use them for machine AND hand tapping
[14:08:10] <Loetmichel> and they are for blind holes
[14:08:22] <Tom_itx> spiral flute pull the chips out though right?
[14:08:28] <Tom_itx> spiral point push them
[14:08:29] <Loetmichel> yes
[14:13:29] <kwallace> andypugh: Thanks for the video link. I suppose the uncoordinated bits between the passes gets fixed because the index is used. I would suspect changing Z between passes would mess things up. Just a guess.
[14:16:30] <andypugh> Yes, you only change start Z if you _want_ a multi-start thread
[14:25:11] <Tom_itx> that would require a special tap anyway
[14:25:23] <Tom_itx> unless you're single pointing it
[14:30:40] <andypugh> No, you can always take out extra metal.
[14:30:48] <andypugh> I have done it enough times :-)
[14:31:54] <Tom_itx> heh
[14:32:18] <Tom_itx> i suppose if the pitch is coars enough you could double it and get a 2 start
[14:32:23] <Tom_itx> coarse*
[14:32:39] <Tom_itx> i've not heard of that done though
[14:38:58] <Tom_itx> i'd like to try rigid tapping on my sherline but i'm not set up for it
[14:40:07] <ReadError> hey guys
[14:40:17] <ReadError> is it worth getting powerfeed on a lathe?
[14:40:29] <ReadError> i might need to do some threading before i convert it to cnc
[14:47:55] <Flipp> hey all, got a basic SolidWorks question and was told someone here might be able to help: is there a way to get SW to identify Z as "up" instead of Y?
[14:48:50] <JT-Shop> yea, let me try and remember... something about rotating the coordinate system
[14:49:22] <Flipp> thanks! ya, I was imagining something like that, but my google searches were just coming up on how to change the views, not the coordinate system itself.
[14:51:28] <JT-Shop> Insert > Reference Geometry > Coordinate System
[14:53:28] <JT-Shop> X Axis Right Plane and Z Axis top plane
[14:57:39] <Flipp> thanks, I'll see if I can mess with it and get it working
[15:03:06] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Can you take a look at this if you have time?
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/49-basic-configuration/25832-multiple-axes-homing-1-input
[15:07:13] <Flipp> JT-Shop: Thanks a bunch. The only piece I was missing was shift-clicking on the z-axis to rotate the view 90 deg. works perfectly now!
[15:11:59] <JT-Shop-2> I looked at it but could not understand what you were asking...
[15:20:13] <JT-Shop> satellite internet sucks when it rains
[15:20:47] <Tom_itx> you must be getting what we got last night
[15:21:07] <JT-Shop> cold front I think
[15:21:10] <Tom_itx> it went from 70f to 35 today too
[15:21:24] <JT-Shop> yea we get that tonight I think
[15:22:56] <JT-Shop> hmm better roll up the hoses tomorrow, Monday night low of 30F
[15:23:26] <p0staL> halo o'clock?
[15:23:34] <Tom_itx> i should blow out the sprinklers but it's been soooo dry
[15:35:37] <JT-Shop> I should be doing something but I don't know what
[15:35:54] <Tom_itx> well at least look busy
[15:38:59] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: inventory
[15:44:39] <andypugh> I have had a day rather like that too.
[15:45:01] <andypugh> I was rather counting on my new Mesa card turning up.
[15:47:33] * JT-Shop cuts a hole in the panel for the DB25 plug
[15:50:09] <kwallace> I'm looking at common grooving methods and found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpzXnGW-oTI . I expected to see the tool only cutting in the X direction for roughing, then maybe drive along the finish profile at the end. What is the common way to make a simple groove?
[15:53:38] <Tom_itx> flat cutoff tool
[15:53:54] <JT-Shop> I use a grooving insert
[15:56:19] <kwallace> I'm used to not side cutting on a long reach tool.
[15:57:39] * roh doesnt need to cut.. these chinese machines are full of holes where db25 fit through
[15:58:56] <kwallace> I suppose as long as the depth of cut stays on a cutting edge, one could side cut as much as the acceptable flex will allow.
[16:02:08] <JT-Shop> seems logical
[16:06:57] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:14:03] <andypugh> kwallace: Click the several "Film" links here:
http://www.phorn.com/products/grooving/
[16:19:47] <kwallace> Oops, I just came back. I found this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJAtCN61HNo
[16:21:44] <kwallace> I'm thinking about what a grooving wizard should look like.
[16:26:00] <andypugh> Groovy?
[16:30:49] <kwallace> It looks like the Fanuc G75 likes to rough with pecking to the groove floor, side stepping, pecking again, repeat until the groove width is roughed, then finish in one sequence down one side, along the floor, and up the other side. I think I'll shoot for that.
[16:49:32] <kwallace> I seem to recall at one time Backplot or Gremlin could be run as a stand alone app. In other words - start LinuxCNC then open a terminal and start Backplot. Is anyone doing this now?
[17:42:54] <mikegg> howdy fellas
[17:47:39] <mikegg> on a +/- 10 VDC spindle driver, using PID on velocity. Would it make sense to set the driver in torque mode or velocity mode?
[17:49:15] <andypugh> Probably velocity for a spindle
[17:49:30] <andypugh> Torque is likely to vary a lot in cutting.
[17:50:22] <andypugh> But then the question is whether the drive or LinuxCNC is best at controlling torque, as even a velocity-mode drive is a torque-mode drive when it comes to the actual current control stage
[17:51:21] <mikegg> huh. I thought in velocity mode the drive varies voltage and current does whatever it wants
[17:53:24] <andypugh> The drive varies PWM duty cycle, but the bus voltage is constant.
[18:33:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/mPcl5.jpg
[21:22:22] <postaL> ?
[21:24:34] <tjb1> postaL: check pm
[21:24:46] <postaL> PM me on here. the other name goes to my desktop
[21:24:52] <postaL> and that's too far away atm
[22:42:55] <Maluseth> hi, does anyone know where i can purchase micro-cnc machines for micromanufacturing?
[22:43:22] <Maluseth> not manual but computer operated, so to work with a CAD
[22:49:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.microcarve.com/mcMV1.html
[22:50:28] <r00t4rd3d> those need the electronics and steppers still
[22:56:05] <fenn> oilite bearings is not exactly suitable for high precision machining
[22:57:18] <fenn> it's possible that what he's looking for doesn't exist as a purchaseable commodity
[23:00:01] <fenn> i thought this was pretty cool
http://unit.aist.go.jp/amri/group/imms/en/HP/research/portable-e.htm
[23:03:41] <fenn> that uses "laminated piezoactuators"
[23:05:39] <KimK_laptop> Maluseth: What size blank are you looking for? And finished to what tolerance?
[23:08:25] <kwallace1> Howsabout:
http://www.cameronmicrodrillpress.com/cnc.html
[23:11:01] <kwallace1> It looks like it uses Flashcut, but could be converted I supose.
[23:11:44] <Maluseth> i dont really know the terms you are mentioning kwallace, i am just getting this funding and building a micromanufacturing fabrication lab
[23:12:25] <fenn> flashcut is a "competitor" control software (this channel is about an open source machine control software package)
[23:12:32] <Maluseth> and i am hoping, without any previous expertise, i could land in on fundamental tools i need in order to design and fabricate machinary in micro scale
[23:13:23] <Maluseth> kwallace, i saw that ad earlier today
[23:13:32] <Maluseth> how much do you think it'll cost?
[23:14:01] <Maluseth> and would i need a laser cutter go along with it... any additional equipments to cover all angles?
[23:14:28] <kwallace1> Cameron's drill presses seem to be well established in a particular niche, but I'm not sure what niche it is.
[23:14:40] <Maluseth> micromanufacturing?
[23:14:43] <Maluseth> IDK
[23:15:53] <kwallace1> Some lathe functions can be done with a mill. Just place the tool on the table, and the work in the spindle.
[23:16:34] <fenn> aerospace & avionics, medical R&D and electronics" - i bet they sell to prototyping labs mostly
[23:18:29] <kwallace1> They are in the next town from me. I visited the shop a couple years ago. They seemed to do most or all their business at trade shows.
[23:20:07] <kwallace1> They had spindle motor housings in the shop that day, that they cast on site.
[23:23:36] <fenn> neat. i want to do that
[23:24:07] <kwallace1> I know nothing about CNC laser machines, so it should be easy to make one :)
[23:24:59] <fenn> well, all the hard stuff's done by the time you buy all the optics
[23:29:10] <kwallace1> Speaking of optics, I've gotta make one of these:
http://starryridge.com/mediawiki-1.9.1/index.php?title=Photo_Gallery
[23:30:07] <kwallace1> or :
http://www.artinso.com/astronomy/archive_astrosite/interferometry-for-amateurs.pdf
[23:32:59] <toastydeath> i've always wondered why nobody has turned a cheapy lathe into an optics lathe
[23:33:06] <toastydeath> they're not that complicated
[23:35:36] <kwallace1> Optics lathe as in turning lenses?
[23:35:48] <toastydeath> yep
[23:41:47] <kwallace1> The tolerances are in the fractions of a wave length for telescopes, .. but maybe not for eyeglasses. I think eyeglass blanks are injection molded these days. I don't know how glasses where made when real glass was used. I guess it was then, what is like now, everything but babies comes from the store.
[23:42:44] <t12> its weird once you start working with really small scale stuff
[23:42:55] <t12> you realize atoms arent exactly as small as you think
[23:42:55] <toastydeath> yep, and there are lathes that hold quarter wave accuracy over a one meter envelope
[23:43:05] <t12> like modern EMs can image single atoms
[23:43:07] <toastydeath> hydrogen wavelength
[23:43:15] <t12> have resolutions in the 2-3A range easy
[23:43:17] <toastydeath> er, not hydrogen, helium
[23:43:30] <toastydeath> 525 nm?
[23:44:12] <toastydeath> less accurate lathes aren't hard to build and get you in the ballpark really fast for aspheric optics
[23:45:06] <toastydeath> they're more optical roughing machines than finishing
[23:45:16] <toastydeath> some are accurate enough for finishing
[23:53:51] <kwallace1> I bet this is a CNC:
http://mirrorlab.as.arizona.edu/sites/mirrorlab.as.arizona.edu/files/LBT_2_DSCN1893.jpg
[23:56:30] <toastydeath> haha, I would hope so
[23:58:42] <toastydeath> i'd really like to know how cnc lapping works, because I have things I'd like to do with cnc lapping
