#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-09

[01:16:09] <oldmatrixnuts> hello
[02:07:29] <pilla_> ohai
[02:08:07] <pilla_> If you run linuxCNC, is there a specific pin on the parallel output of the pc that is always 1?
[02:08:40] <Valen> there may well be a power pin
[02:08:53] <Valen> I'd suggest looking at the pport spec and seeing what it says
[02:09:52] <pilla_> ty
[02:12:07] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:21:14] <pilla_> Does someone know if you can safely short an output pin in high state to an input pin?
[02:21:26] <pilla_> ...parallel port that is :D
[02:23:04] <archivist> depends
[02:23:42] <Valen> aren't pport pins open collector or something similar?
[02:24:02] <pilla_> alas, I have no clue what that is ^^'
[02:24:06] <archivist> some/most are but it varies
[02:25:21] <Valen> it means you will need a resistor to ground or power in order for it to actually toggle
[02:25:36] <Valen> perhaps it might be an idea to describe what you are actually trying to do pilla_
[02:25:50] <archivist> sometimes the pull up is internal some times not
[02:26:29] <archivist> and not all pins are the same iirc
[02:27:19] <pilla_> I want, that if my CNC machine 'homes' (I have no homing switches), that my x, y and z limits get triggered
[02:27:20] <Valen> probably varies with the mode of the pport too
[02:27:42] <Valen> why not just turn homing off?
[02:27:54] <pilla_> I want to make homing switches
[02:28:18] <Valen> so when you have them wire them up ;->
[02:28:25] <pilla_> I don't have them
[02:28:28] <pilla_> I want to make them
[02:28:35] <Valen> (we ran for years without homing switches lol)
[02:28:47] <pilla_> :D
[02:28:53] <Valen> yeah, but you are trying to do this weird loopback thing and i can't work out why
[02:29:03] <Valen> if you presently lack homing switches, just turn homing off
[02:29:07] <pilla_> I want to put cables on the x, y and z axis
[02:29:15] <Valen> when you then gain homing switches, wire them in
[02:29:29] <pilla_> and if they touch the "home" position, the pins should get active
[02:29:50] <pilla_> I just don't know how to make those pins active
[02:30:13] <Valen> ey archivist, we are building a new wood/Al mill/router we want to do some detailed type profiling, I'm thinking of going to rotating nut ballscrews rather than spinning the ballscrew
[02:30:23] <pilla_> either putting another cable on the home position so that if they home, the pins touch that cable, and a 1 signal is sent
[02:30:25] <Valen> reason being is we are going for a 1200mm work area
[02:30:51] <Valen> pilla_: is english not your native tounge?
[02:31:03] <pilla_> nope, is it that obvious? D
[02:31:04] <pilla_> xD
[02:31:19] <Valen> any thoughts archivist? looking at hiwin brand screws and rails
[02:31:41] <archivist> pilla_, as long as you set a pin to be an input then you can short it to gnd
[02:32:01] <Valen> for somebody with english as your second language your doing pretty well, if it was your major language I'd get up you for talking imprecisely about precise stuff ;->
[02:32:23] <archivist> I think my 5 axis has some hiwin (got them surplus)
[02:32:26] <pilla_> Haha, sorry, my english knowledge isn't very technical ^^
[02:32:51] <Valen> but yah as archivist said, if you make the pin an input you shouldn't be able to hurt it giving it either 5v or gnd
[02:33:12] <pilla_> So I can short them to ground? That was exactly what I needed :) Thanks!
[02:33:22] <Valen> make *sure* its an input first
[02:33:45] <archivist> I still have no homing switches !
[02:33:48] <Valen> archivist: any idea what the pullup is on one of them
[02:34:02] <Valen> I got around to hooking up the index pulses on our glass scales for homing
[02:34:11] <Valen> I think dad's used it twice in 6 months ;->
[02:34:11] <pilla_> LinuxCNC assigns the x limit, y limit and z limit to pins 10, 11, 12, so I suppose those will be/stay input ports? :)
[02:34:23] <archivist> yes
[02:34:35] <Valen> note the limit is not the same as a home input
[02:34:51] <archivist> 330 ohms is a lower value I think I have seen
[02:35:13] <Valen> I was thinking he could probe with a resistor but at 330ohms it'd be kinda pointless
[02:35:38] <archivist> that is the pullup value
[02:36:07] <Valen> ahh, so probe with a 1K for safety ;->
[02:36:09] <archivist> some just dont have pullups, like I found more than once
[02:36:19] <pilla_> anyways, thanks! That was what I needed to know ^^
[02:36:32] <Valen> I'm not paying enough attention you should probably ignore me lol
[02:36:42] <Valen> pilla_: are you using mbo pport or on a card?
[02:37:42] <pilla_> I'm using a school pc so I'm not worrying about frying the PC xD
[02:37:47] <pilla_> dunno, probably on a card
[02:37:55] <pilla_> hopefully ;)
[02:37:59] <Valen> frying the PC was my concern
[02:38:23] <pilla_> but I'll let my teacher double check the schematic first, so if it gets fried I'm not responsible :P
[02:39:09] <Valen> good plan lol
[02:42:05] <archivist> I think rotating nut allows faster travels
[02:43:35] <Valen> it looks like it, the issue we were having was the critical speed
[02:43:41] <Valen> for the ballscrew
[02:44:00] <Valen> with 1200 travel we needed 25mm to get a critical speed of 1200
[02:44:03] <Valen> RPM
[02:44:46] <Valen> we could go to 10mm lead which would hit 4 meters a minute at ~500 RPM, but we'd need to double the gearing which was already like 5:1
[02:45:07] * Valen is just about to place an order for some bigass mesa drivers ;->
[02:48:06] <pilla_> it seems you can't have both home -and- limit switches? too few pinouts? Or am I wrong?
[02:48:38] <Valen> emc can, i don't know about a pport
[02:49:25] <Valen> there is an option to use limit as home i believe
[02:49:59] <archivist> you can add another parallel port for more io
[02:50:10] <cncbasher> pilla_: use switches for limits and homing
[02:50:31] <pilla_> Yay more chance to fry the PC :D I've been looking in the homing sequence again and actually I don't need two switches ^^
[02:52:36] <Valen> we ran without limtis for years too
[02:57:23] <archivist> makes no sense to add homing and limits to some axes specially rotary
[02:58:06] <pilla_> My teacher wants me to add a camera to the machine, so I'd like to home first so I know what I'm taking pictures of :P
[02:58:44] <archivist> I did have a camera in the early days
[02:59:06] <pilla_> I bought a canon 400d yesterday (/offtopic)
[02:59:43] <archivist> was way back in 2008 http://www.archivist.info/cnc/cnccam.html
[03:00:24] <pilla_> haha, nice
[03:00:47] <pilla_> now, lightning is something I haven't thought of yet.... Oh well, should be using the camera in a brightly lit environment :p
[03:01:27] <archivist> lighting and focus for close up work needs a bit of work
[03:02:37] <archivist> I wanted the camera as an alignment device as I need to get the cutter on the centre line
[03:07:05] <Jymmm> archivist: Are those ACTUAL crosshairs or image overlays?
[03:07:32] <archivist> code writes into the image
[03:08:02] <Jymmm> archivist: But do you see them when doing alignment on the screen?
[03:08:14] <archivist> yes
[03:08:24] <Jymmm> very nice
[03:08:50] <Jymmm> archivist: too bad you can't add a measuring scale too
[03:09:15] <archivist> you have to know the lens magnification
[03:09:24] <Jymmm> Yeah, I understand.
[03:09:54] <archivist> and it is made worse by camera object distance
[03:10:34] <Jymmm> I was just kinda impressed with how fine the crosshairs are
[03:10:51] <archivist> 1 pixel
[03:11:32] <Jymmm> on avg 1/72 of an inch
[03:12:18] <archivist> what would be better is to mount the camera on a stage under cnc control so one can see the real measurements
[03:13:31] <Jymmm> Well, if the Z doens't change much. You could calibrate against a steel rule placed on the table maybe.
[03:14:59] <archivist> steel rule! do you realise how inaccurate that is
[03:15:40] <Jymmm> Well, it's better than cheap usb miceoscope I have that measures distance in software =)
[03:17:16] <archivist> I sometimes need to be better than a thou, the best steel rules are 10 thou iirc
[03:18:38] <Jymmm> I looked my starret 6" rule under the USB microscope, and THEN I could see how rough even the 100ths scale was
[03:19:20] <Jymmm> thought I was looking at the grand canyon
[04:15:11] <pilla_> So um my teacher doesn't mind the CNC machine hitting the home limits... so can I set it in CNC that once the machine trips the home switch, it just "stops"?
[04:15:20] <pilla_> without going back and blah
[04:17:57] <pilla_> in linucnc that is.
[04:18:06] <pilla_> +x
[04:18:43] <Valen> home and limit are very different things
[04:19:00] <Valen> though you can use a limit switch for homing I believe
[04:19:10] <Valen> do you understand the difference between the two?
[04:19:17] <pilla_> no :)
[04:19:46] <Valen> a home switch is to tell the mill accuratly where in its travel it is
[04:20:20] <Valen> so if you have a jig on the mill you can return it to the same cordinates each time
[04:20:47] <Valen> the limit switches are there to say "you are about to hit the end of travel on this axis you should stop now"
[04:21:11] <pilla_> So if I only use a limit switch, the machine just stops when it hits it? :)
[04:21:23] <Valen> when you have homed the mill if you have the limits set in the software emc won't intentionally hit the limit switches either
[04:21:37] <Valen> thats the purpose of a limit switch
[04:21:44] <pilla_> Ok, thanks ;)
[04:21:46] <Valen> to stop you from driving into the end of the axis
[04:22:56] <Valen> if you are really feeling an I/O pinch you can join all the limit switches together onto one pin i think
[04:23:58] <pilla_> Oh but my teacher said he doesn't mind the machine driving into the end of the axis.. So I'm just going to use limit switches on the end of the axis.
[04:24:08] <pilla_> But then I'd need 3 pins right?
[04:24:20] <pilla_> (with 3 axes)
[04:24:37] <Valen> he doesn't mind it pushing at full power into the end of the axis?
[04:24:47] <Valen> or he doesn't mind it hitting a limit switch?
[04:24:49] <pilla_> He doesn't mind.
[04:25:13] <pilla_> He doesn't mind the first ;)
[04:25:29] <Valen> then don't bother with any switches
[04:25:43] <pilla_> lol
[04:25:47] <Valen> i'm serious
[04:26:01] <Valen> archivist runs to this day without home at least and i think without limit
[04:26:09] <Valen> we run without limits and only sometimes home
[04:26:30] <pilla_> Then how does he, in a software-way, have the machine "home"?
[04:26:40] <Valen> he doesnt
[04:26:50] <pilla_> My teacher wants me to be able to do that
[04:26:50] <Valen> its not a requirement
[04:26:54] <Valen> you can turn it off
[04:26:56] <Valen> why?
[04:27:06] <pilla_> Because it makes life easier.
[04:27:15] <Valen> how?
[04:28:38] <pilla_> Because he wants noob students to be able to push a button so the machine homes, put a print board on the miller, take a picture with a cheap webcam of the print board, point to some places on the picture, and have the cnc mill there.
[04:30:10] <pilla_> I don't exactly need it to home, but it's difficult to (without any human intervention) take pictures of the board if the machine doesn't know where it is
[04:30:26] <pilla_> so if I home the machine, I at least have a reference point
[04:31:04] <Valen> if you go and "take pictures of the board"
[04:31:09] <Valen> then you are touching off
[04:31:13] <Valen> you don't need to home
[04:31:53] <pilla_> I know that, but I want to be able to take a picture of the complete workspace
[04:32:21] <Valen> to what end?
[04:32:47] <pilla_> don't understand that sentence, can you rephrase? :)
[04:33:10] <Valen> soldering brb
[04:34:15] <archivist> I can see why your teacher wants proper homing
[04:35:11] <archivist> touching off is just setting 0 to some reference eg a corner of your board
[04:35:12] <pilla_> That way I can also prevent people from using commands that exceed the machine limits (if I have a limit switch)
[04:35:57] <archivist> linuxcnc also has soft limits so it should never hit the switches in practice
[04:36:37] <pilla_> My teacher thinks it's the most precise to have the machine hit the hard limits, then you know exactly where the machine is
[04:36:51] <pilla_> ...I don't complain, it's easiest to make this way xD
[04:37:31] <archivist> homing is not hard limits there is a difference
[04:38:15] <pilla_> I know but he asked to hit the hard limits so I don't need homing anymore. If I have my own cnc miller I would do proper homing, but here teacher's boss.
[04:38:24] <pilla_> I'll just use limits
[04:39:02] <Valen> hard limits would be less accurate than a good home switch I'd reckon
[04:39:07] <Valen> just due to bending the machine
[04:39:28] <pilla_> mmm, I don't think this machine is powerful enough for that
[04:40:30] <Valen> j4
[05:33:47] <pilla_> bah dumb miller :P
[05:34:09] <pilla_> I can't seem to find (reliable) information about the YooCNC T26-3ax board
[05:34:33] <pilla_> there are free pins there, but I dunno what kind of voltage has to be applied to them
[05:34:57] <pilla_> I'm afraid that if I do a full 5v on them I'll fry something xD
[05:35:40] <archivist> look at the chips on the board
[05:36:26] <pilla_> should've done that before I screwed it back together xD
[05:36:29] <archivist> then get a datasheet on a chip, follow the power pins to the connectors
[05:38:16] <pilla_> infrared emitting diodes. wut
[05:39:12] <pilla_> cant read it, brb
[05:41:56] <pilla_> aha photocouplers :D ty
[08:42:23] <alpha1125> L84Supper where are you having issues sourcing acme screws and nuts? if in USA, mcmaster.com. If in Canada… there's a place called durham fasteners, near Toronto…
[08:47:15] <L84Supper> alpha1125: yes, the prices there aren' that great, probably since they are one of the few that actually keep stock
[08:47:36] <alpha1125> fastenel is worse.
[08:48:13] <alpha1125> what are you looking for specifically? I ran through all these things like 10 years ago, when I start playing around with CNC.
[08:48:24] <alpha1125> first time I turned on my mill in over a year, was last weekend.
[08:48:49] <L84Supper> yeah, I ended up buying longer lengths and then will machine them to size
[08:57:18] <L84Supper> but of course after ordering them, I now find N.O.S. on ebay only 5 miles from me
[09:00:08] <alpha1125> lol
[09:00:29] <alpha1125> go check them out… it'd probably be worth your time… if not, just another place to source stuff for the future.
[09:32:19] <tjb1> iPhone is trying to die on me :(
[09:45:05] <Jymmm> IIF you heat treat SS to harden it as opposed to cold rolled, wouldn't heating it back up anneal it again? Also would heating cold rolled anneal it too?
[09:45:50] <archivist> define heating it up
[09:46:46] <Jymmm> Subjecting heat treated SS to 1200F for 20 minutes
[09:50:08] <syyl> SS = silversteel?
[09:50:17] <Jymmm> Stainless Steel
[09:50:48] <syyl> there are tons of stainless steels
[09:50:52] <archivist> this is his 10 year project to get something to market
[09:51:10] <syyl> and very much can not be hardened
[09:51:34] <archivist> it work hardens :)
[09:51:40] <syyl> yeah
[09:51:47] <syyl> but most people dont like that ;)
[09:52:03] <archivist> specially the tooling hates it
[09:52:03] <syyl> i machined stainless sheetmetal today, with a 0,8mm endmill
[09:52:04] <syyl> hell ;)
[09:52:27] <TekniQue> that must have taken a while
[09:52:32] <TekniQue> what kind of rpms and feed rates?
[09:53:12] <syyl> 40000rpm and 1000mm/min
[09:53:55] <syyl> with a 0,1mm depth of cut
[09:54:17] <syyl> dry
[09:54:22] <syyl> got a pretty good finish
[09:54:22] <TekniQue> yeah, that'd take a while
[09:54:36] <TekniQue> just engraving'
[09:54:39] <TekniQue> ?
[09:59:53] <syyl> cutouts
[09:59:59] <syyl> 1mm thick sheet metal
[10:54:18] <Mjolinor> I am trying to work out a gc0ode instruction to home after I have finished cutting
[10:54:42] <Mjolinor> I am getting my gcode fomr the Gcode export of PCB and it just stops wehre it ends and I wnt it to go home
[10:55:02] <archivist> add a line
[10:55:11] <Mjolinor> anyone care to enlighten me, can't see anyhtign obvious on the linuxcnc gcode pages
[10:55:54] <cradek> you might want to check into g28?
[10:56:09] <cradek> or maybe you want g0 g53 z0
[10:56:48] <Mjolinor> I got as far as the G0 :)
[10:57:12] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[10:58:17] <Mjolinor> so two lines: g0 g53 z1 and then g0 g53 x0 y0 should do it
[10:58:33] <Mjolinor> thank you
[10:59:51] <Mjolinor> that works :)
[11:01:28] <cradek> usually z0 should be the top of travel, so g0 g53 z1 is normally an unreachable position
[11:02:36] <Loetmichel> cradek: until the ref switches are a few mm before the end of travel
[11:02:58] <Loetmichel> s/until/exept when
[11:03:18] <cradek> sure, but the position of the switch does not dictate where your zero must be
[11:03:35] <Loetmichel> no, but usually is
[11:03:51] <Loetmichel> if not configured otherwise
[11:04:15] <cradek> that's not really my experience, but I don't care to argue about it
[11:04:51] <cradek> normally I see zero being exactly one end of the allowable travel
[11:05:00] <cradek> but there's no reason you must do it that way
[11:05:08] <Loetmichel> my machine is configured this way also: travel goes from x-2 to 202 ;y -2 to 112 and z 2 to -112
[11:05:41] <Loetmichel> regulat movement is only 200*110*110, the 4mm in each axis are "spare"
[11:05:50] <cradek> a commercial machine I used to have was travel x 0..18, y 0..12, z 0..-5
[11:05:51] <Loetmichel> and the ref switches sit on 0,0,0
[11:06:13] <cradek> the home switch and index pulse were inside that region somewhere
[11:07:22] <Mjolinor> z0 is hte surface of my PCB copper
[11:07:54] <cradek> Mjolinor: that's a workpiece origin; we're talking about the machine limits established by homing
[11:07:59] <Loetmichel> what i meant: the excess travel is not meant to be used "regulary" but is there for breakung pourposes and for the occasional workpiece which is "JUST that small bit" to large for the machine ;-)
[11:08:18] <Mjolinor> but I home to one corner of the PCB
[11:08:40] <Mjolinor> so X Y and Z are all homed to the front left corner
[11:08:40] <cradek> you do not use workpiece origin? g54 etc?
[11:09:11] <cradek> using homing to set your work origin means you do not have the protection of axis limits, and you don't have a useful g53 coordinate system
[11:09:21] <Loetmichel> Mjolinor: does your machine HAVE ref/home switches?
[11:09:28] <Mjolinor> no
[11:09:31] <Mjolinor> no switches
[11:09:36] <Loetmichel> ah, there ;)
[11:09:50] <cradek> you can still home it by jogging to a known location. put markings on it.
[11:10:05] <cradek> end of travels, for instance
[11:10:16] <cradek> doing this gives you many useful things
[11:10:53] <Loetmichel> gettting work done seamlessly after some crash or step loss
[11:10:56] <Mjolinor> I can home like that but if I want more than one PCB rather than lay it out as multiple I cut one then move the origin for X and cut another
[11:10:59] <Loetmichel> for example ;-)
[11:11:38] <Loetmichel> you can still do that with g54
[11:11:40] <cradek> Mjolinor: for that, use workpiece (g54) origin, set with touch off
[11:16:05] <pcw_home> wow the forum is really busted today
[11:16:36] <cradek> uh-oh
[11:17:10] <cradek> more details? I don't see anything wrong at first glance.
[11:17:14] <pcw_home> 500 Internal Server Error
[11:17:15] <pcw_home> Fatal Error was detected!
[11:17:17] <pcw_home> Please contact the site owner.
[11:17:28] <cradek> when doing what?
[11:17:44] <pcw_home> if you click the recent topics tab
[11:18:55] <cradek> Error: Allowed memory size of 94371840 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 9 bytes) in libraries/joomla/registry/registry.php on line 125
[11:19:03] <cradek> this kind of thing?
[11:19:42] <pcw_home> I dont get that just the internal server error message
[11:20:40] <cradek> hmmm
[11:21:15] <pcw_home> someone (cncbasher) said there were 55,000 guests reported...
[11:22:54] <pcw_home> sorry ArcEye
[11:24:46] <cncbasher> must be all the bots lining up to jump in
[12:03:52] <tjb1> :) http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[12:15:59] <IchGuckLive> hi all in the world B9
[12:23:54] <IchGuckLive> hi JesusAlos-
[12:24:05] <JesusAlos-> hi andy
[12:24:06] <IchGuckLive> and everything working
[12:24:28] <IchGuckLive> did you see the video advice
[12:24:30] <ReadError> hey guys
[12:24:36] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[12:24:40] <ReadError> do you need powerfeed to cut threads on a lathe?
[12:24:57] <JesusAlos-> yes i saw.
[12:25:11] <IchGuckLive> does it work for you
[12:25:11] <JesusAlos-> thank a lott
[12:25:36] <archivist> ReadError, er strange question in a cnc channel
[12:25:38] <JesusAlos-> i know samm
[12:25:49] <ReadError> archivist
[12:25:52] <ReadError> well heres the thing
[12:25:56] <ReadError> im getting a lathe (taig)
[12:26:01] <JesusAlos-> this night i try linuxcnc
[12:26:01] <ReadError> and will convert it to cnc
[12:26:56] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos-: good luck
[12:27:07] <JesusAlos-> thak
[12:27:46] <IchGuckLive> you know wher to get help
[12:27:52] <JesusAlos-> sorry if i not speak a lott. i write from mobile
[12:28:03] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:29:52] <JesusAlos-> i eat some oranges. recently take of tree
[12:30:24] <IchGuckLive> i thought you where on the way to the party of marilo montero
[12:30:52] <IchGuckLive> la manana uno
[12:31:52] <JesusAlos-> jjj. no boy
[12:32:27] <JesusAlos-> i finish work. now go to pub with friend
[12:32:58] <JesusAlos-> and who know, late maybe some party...
[12:58:57] <andypugh> If the forum stays down much longer I might have to do some actual work.
[12:59:47] <pcw_home> Yeah it was stumbling but I think its fallen over...
[13:00:47] <IchGuckLive> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ is everything that counts
[13:01:40] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: do yyou got 100w AC drivers in your boards
[13:01:48] <IchGuckLive> for a UVW servo
[13:01:57] <pcw_home> No not 100V
[13:02:07] <andypugh> Says 100W
[13:02:13] <andypugh> 7i39?
[13:02:24] <IchGuckLive> i have alock
[13:02:34] <pcw_home> 7I39 with the right transistors maybe
[13:04:06] <IchGuckLive> are UVW servos always DC
[13:04:42] <pcw_home> the motors run on 3 phase variable frequency AC
[13:04:45] <IchGuckLive> my R7m reads 200V 0.87A
[13:05:24] <IchGuckLive> im still strugeling with the Mind to understand how this systems work
[13:05:56] <IchGuckLive> my Xtradrive from Ebay has a Encoder input and 230V AC also UVW
[13:06:13] <IchGuckLive> it might read analog and puls/Dir
[13:06:46] <IchGuckLive> so on pulse dir how does the controler act ? on its own mined
[13:06:48] <andypugh> What do you mean by "UVW"?
[13:06:49] <pcw_home> U/V/W from encoder is commutation signal
[13:07:06] <IchGuckLive> no the Servo power
[13:07:21] <pcw_home> (equivalent to "Hall" signals)
[13:08:15] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLDC
[13:08:22] <pcw_home> with a step/dir servo the drive has a PID position loop and a up/down counter that the servo PID loop follows
[13:08:27] <IchGuckLive> and for understanding on Servo analog how does the controler Pc knows the back signal if there is the encoder to the Driver
[13:08:44] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Often it doesn't.
[13:08:53] <skunkworks> open loop
[13:08:58] <pcw_home> most drives can echo the encoder signals back to the controller
[13:09:08] <andypugh> But many drives pass-through the encoder signal to the PC.
[13:10:08] <IchGuckLive> i got 3 connectors i ill have a look on the pins
[13:10:53] <andypugh> If you _only_ have three pins, then you need a sensorless drive and it's not likely to work for CNC,
[13:11:36] <pcw_home> if it has an analog controller interface, the controller (LinuxCNC) needs to have the encoder signals
[13:11:38] <pcw_home> (well not always a system with linear scales might just have the scale count go to the controller)
[13:12:21] <IchGuckLive> i got it there is a signal transmission
[13:12:52] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 3 connectors with 30 pins plus
[13:13:30] <andypugh> That's almost worse. I wonder what all those pins do?
[13:14:21] <IchGuckLive> it wars cheep
[13:14:36] <IchGuckLive> i will try to get a servo running
[13:14:50] <IchGuckLive> 700Eur is far over the limit
[13:15:14] <IchGuckLive> 65eur motor and controler but i think it is overwalming me
[13:15:22] <IchGuckLive> no cable at all
[13:16:14] <archivist> look inside, reverse engineer
[13:16:51] <IchGuckLive> i do
[13:17:23] <IchGuckLive> they OMRON and Ysakawa helpt me by PDF the Cable pinlayout now i start soldering
[13:17:44] <IchGuckLive> thanks the pinsolder are 2,54mm
[13:17:59] <IchGuckLive> so maybe good luck one time
[13:25:40] <IchGuckLive> first i need a other encoder this on the motor is broken maybe i killed it on messuring
[13:26:10] <IchGuckLive> there is no index but all datasheet give me a A/B/Z encoder
[13:26:30] <IchGuckLive> we will se comes time comes a conclution
[13:27:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10611#a1
[13:27:58] <IchGuckLive> By
[13:51:52] <mrsun> hmm, using U groove ball bearings insted of V groove ... hows that ?
[13:51:57] <mrsun> good, bad?
[13:52:08] <mrsun> anyone know the advantages to V vs U ? :)
[13:52:52] <andypugh> Can you be more specific on what youare describing?
[13:54:07] <mrsun> http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rm4-2rs-1.jpg versus http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ZjOQVABsSYkI/Windows-Ball-Bearingwith-U-Groove-Roller-D19-25-.jpg for cnc linear guides
[13:58:56] <andypugh> I would expect V-groove ot be adjustable for less slop, and U-groove to last longer.
[14:04:44] <pcw_home> Well that was interesting: accessing www.linuxCNC.org returned:
[14:04:45] <pcw_home> Array
[14:04:47] <pcw_home> (
[14:04:48] <pcw_home> [0] => Array
[14:04:50] <pcw_home> (
[14:04:51] <pcw_home> [file] => /home/emcboard/www.linuxcnc.org/libraries/joomla/application/component/helper.php
[14:04:53] <pcw_home> [line] => 203
[14:04:54] <pcw_home> [function] => loadObjectList
[14:04:56] <pcw_home> [class] => JDatabaseMySQL
[14:04:57] <pcw_home> [type] => ->
[14:04:59] <pcw_home> [object] => JDatabaseMySQL Object
[14:05:00] <pcw_home> ....
[14:07:35] <cradek> I think alex is currently working on it
[14:08:26] <pcw_home> must be something going on for it to spew plain text
[14:12:25] <alex_joni> pcw_home: I was hacking on it ;)
[14:12:38] <alex_joni> that was a backtrace on php
[14:12:48] <pcw_home> Ahh
[14:13:14] <alex_joni> had a bit of a bot problem ;)
[14:13:29] <alex_joni> 57k google bots around, which each stored a session in the DB
[14:13:45] <alex_joni> which in turn grew huge, and caused php to bomb out
[14:14:04] <pcw_home> So ArcEyes 55000 users was not far off
[14:14:11] <andypugh> Actual Google bots, or evil spammy bots?
[14:14:59] <alex_joni> andypugh: your guess is probablybetter than mine
[14:15:08] <alex_joni> but they feel like legit google bots
[14:15:12] <andypugh> 413 guests online already. Which seems unlikely
[14:15:20] <alex_joni> again bots
[14:15:29] <alex_joni> seems my robots.txt change didn't go so well
[14:15:41] <pcw_home> That must be why the email slowed to a crawl
[14:16:27] <andypugh> Any idea where the numbers in the admin box on the left come from? (1 unban request, 12 user reports, 3 images, 551 users). Those numbers never go to zero. I now know that 551 means nonbody needs approving...
[14:17:44] <alex_joni> hmm.. these bots keep creating sessions
[14:18:05] <alex_joni> but I guess they create session for the whole site, not just forum/
[14:18:20] <alex_joni> andypugh: that comes from CB (community builder), no idea about the numbers though
[14:18:24] <alex_joni> I wondered too
[14:19:07] <alex_joni> btw, sorry for kicking you out repeatedly, so you have to log in again
[14:20:58] <andypugh> CB Tools has a "check database: link. I never dard press it.
[14:23:57] <alex_joni> I used it a couple times
[14:25:58] <mevon_> hello anyone here knows about HAL and arduino?
[14:26:31] <mevon_> maybe I should ask in a python related channel too
[14:26:35] <skunkworks> mevon_, what are you trying to do?
[14:26:54] <mevon_> hi skunkworks, basicly: the impossible
[14:27:00] <mevon_> :P
[14:27:04] <skunkworks> we do that here...
[14:27:06] <mevon_> pardon my dark humour
[14:27:14] <mevon_> :P ok nice
[14:27:24] <mevon_> Im trying tosetup a arduino2emc
[14:27:55] <mrsun> gah frekin ebay sellers do not specify if the V groove bearings are double race or not ...
[14:28:03] <mrsun> how will i know if its p for the task ... :P
[14:28:14] <mevon_> using Emc2Arduino
[14:28:20] <skunkworks> mevon_, I have used this and it works very well (using it to get temp into linuxcnc) http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[14:29:29] <mevon_> ok yes sweet link but my trouble is when loading the linuxcnc machine, somehow the arduino driver is not loading properly
[14:29:57] <mevon_> "Waiting for component 'arduino' to become ready."
[14:30:05] <andypugh> Which Arduino driver?
[14:30:07] <skunkworks> mevon_, oh - I had looked at that.... That seems a bit scary... It seems to try to replace the printer port with usb arduino... I don't think that would work very well...
[14:30:25] <skunkworks> http://emc2arduino.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/emc2arduino-0-07a-hits-pre-release/
[14:30:47] <mevon_> yes exactly that
[14:31:03] <mevon_> I bet its the same arduino.py
[14:31:54] <mevon_> Ive edited it to change to /dev/ttyUSB0
[14:32:36] <mevon_> when loading i get this "HAL: ERROR: pin 'motion.probe-input' not found mantis.hal:47: unlink failed"
[14:33:19] <andypugh> Comment out the line in the custom.hal which is trying to unlink a pin you haven't linked.
[14:33:29] <mevon_> mantis.hal would be the custom.hal in ArduinoEMC .07b
[14:33:56] <andypugh> I don't know, I guessed that mantis.hal was your original HAL?
[14:34:05] <mevon_> andypugh, yes
[14:34:22] <mevon_> well actually custom.hal from ArduinoEMC .zip
[14:34:42] <andypugh> OK, does line 47 in mantis.hal try to unlink a pin that isn;t linked?
[14:35:21] <mevon_> i guess so too but since its in a driver i was guessing it could be virtual
[14:35:32] <mevon_> as in HAL virtual
[14:35:58] <andypugh> <puzzled>
[14:36:01] <mevon_> where these pins would of be set before that?
[14:36:04] <mrsun> kinda annoying that the ones i find (RM2ZZ) that is dual race bearings is 3/8" hole ... :/
[14:36:23] <andypugh> I have no idea what you are going on about.
[14:36:28] <mrsun> i guess its not a big problem tho, even tho stuff arent metric all that need to be 3/8" is the cam action bushing for them
[14:37:04] <mevon_> andypugh, i ran the stepconf wiz and the first hal it gave me was for parralel port
[14:37:05] <andypugh> Line 47 of your mantis.hal file says "unlinkp motion.probe-input" I can tell that without even seeing the file.
[14:37:50] <andypugh> I don't know why it says that, I don't know how it came to say that, but it does.
[14:38:09] <mevon_> i swapt that one with the custom.hal i received with the arduinoemc 0.7b .zip
[14:38:09] <andypugh> delete that line, and see what crtashes next.
[14:38:12] <mevon_> ok
[14:38:33] <andypugh> You made a grave mistake then.
[14:38:51] <andypugh> You need your original HAL file _and_ the custom.hal file.
[14:39:13] <mevon_> HAL: ERROR: pin 'motion.probe-input' not found
[14:39:13] <mevon_> mantis.hal:47: unlink failed
[14:39:20] <mevon_> hummm
[14:39:27] <mevon_> ok got that
[14:39:34] <mevon_> gonna try with both
[14:39:48] <andypugh> So ignore my comment about deleting the line, reinstate the orignal mantis.hal file. Then leave custom.hal called custom.hal
[14:40:06] <mevon_> but custom.hal your talking about is the one generated by stepconf or the one in the arduinoemc?
[14:40:48] <andypugh> For some reason I cant quite follow the writer of that Arduino thing has decided to create a custom.hal to patch a generic stepconf setup.
[14:41:15] <andypugh> So you want your original mantis.hal and his custom.hal
[14:41:18] <mevon_> well I couldnt really generate a machine that wasnt parrallel port
[14:41:34] <mevon_> with stepconf
[14:41:45] <andypugh> Stepconf is for the weak!
[14:41:49] <mevon_> lolz
[14:41:50] <mevon_> ok
[14:43:08] <andypugh> It would be neater to hand-edit his custom.hal changes into your HAL file, but then stepconf will over-write everything if you run it again.
[14:43:29] <mevon_> ok
[14:43:52] <mevon_> i now can load it without error but manual control is grayed out
[14:44:43] <andypugh> You might need to turn the machine on
[14:45:33] <andypugh> (f1 then f2, or the red buttons at the top of the screen)
[14:45:49] <mevon_> im so noob :P
[14:46:08] <andypugh> it took me a few minutes the first time too
[14:47:06] <mevon_> interface works but nothing moves :(
[14:47:18] <andypugh> Any action from the Arduino?
[14:47:25] <andypugh> blinkenlighs?
[14:48:11] <andypugh> machine->show hal config
[14:48:30] <andypugh> Look under "pins" do you see any arduino pins?
[14:49:09] <andypugh> You should see things like arduino.stop, arduino.probe
[14:49:38] <andypugh> If those are not there then my guess would be that your iNI is not referencing the custom.hal
[14:50:05] <mevon_> i see the pins
[14:50:11] <mevon_> somehow the have a status
[14:50:23] <andypugh> That's a good sign.
[14:50:33] <mevon_> sry im so amazed right now :S
[14:50:48] <mevon_> linuxcnc is a beautifull machine
[14:51:22] <andypugh> Have you loaded the Arduino sketch into the Arduino?
[14:51:45] <mevon_> yes i had to make a lot of changes in there but nothing on the comm protocol
[14:52:04] <mevon_> stepping time is just a little longer
[14:52:16] <Aero-Tec> can EMC do good threading with only a index input?
[14:52:42] <Aero-Tec> for lathe single point threading
[14:52:54] <andypugh> I am rather puzzled as to how they expect to get around the USB latency. Generally USB isn't useful because it can take a couple of mS to send data.
[14:52:58] <pcw_home> Depends on spindle intertia vs cutting force stability
[14:53:03] <cradek> results are obviously worse than with a full encoder. define good.
[14:53:07] <pcw_home> inertia
[14:53:19] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Better than Mach. :-)
[14:53:27] <Aero-Tec> better then mach
[14:53:40] <alex_joni> andypugh: who's they?
[14:53:40] <cradek> why do you think you want to use that setup?
[14:53:52] <Aero-Tec> ok so single index is better then mach
[14:54:21] <Aero-Tec> it is what I have setup right now
[14:54:31] <Aero-Tec> I was doing threads with mach
[14:54:42] <pcw_home> I would guess about the same (both would have to guess the spindle position for a whole turn )
[14:54:44] <mevon_> stepping 3axis at the same time takes me 800 us minimum
[14:54:45] <Aero-Tec> but will need to do them soon with EMC
[14:55:23] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, but AFAIK mach doesn't look at the spindle again once it has started the move. It guesses a speed and sticks to it.
[14:55:37] <Aero-Tec> it is a large lathe and small inside thread
[14:56:04] <Aero-Tec> your right
[14:56:04] <pcw_home> andypugh: Oh thats terrible
[14:56:18] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: You need to make sure you link the position-interpolated pin in HAL, not the position pin.
[14:57:30] <andypugh> Otherwise LinuxCNC will be worse than Mach, as it will see a spindle that moves in single-rev jerks, and try to match that motion...
[14:57:47] <Aero-Tec> I have had good luck with mach threading as my lath is big and chuck heavy, but your right as to mach using index to start and not during the threading as far as I know
[14:59:10] <andypugh> If you are using external buffered controllers (like that Arduino) then you don't have much choice unless there is threading code in the controller.
[14:59:51] <Aero-Tec> the index encoder goes into mach/EMC now
[14:59:59] <Aero-Tec> through a Pport
[15:00:13] <Aero-Tec> want to upgrade that soon
[15:00:38] <andypugh> mevon_: Conventional wisdom in LinuxCNC land is that USB simply can't work. I will be interested to see how you get on. I suspect that it might be possible to make it work by sending timestamps and correcting internally.
[15:00:40] <pcw_home> even a few slots will make a big improvement in following (1/2 wheel and 2 pickups at 90 degrees = 4 counts)
[15:00:42] <pcw_home> 4 count encoder has the advantage that A=Z
[15:00:42] <Aero-Tec> and put a proper encoder on for threading and rigid taping
[15:01:10] <pcw_home> 4 counts should be about 16 time better than 1
[15:01:50] <Aero-Tec> but you need a index
[15:02:03] <Aero-Tec> you can not just use a 4 count encoder
[15:02:11] <pcw_home> A=index with a 4 count encoder
[15:02:27] <mevon_> andypugh, thanks for your support
[15:02:54] <alex_joni> what's a polar bear?
[15:03:04] <Aero-Tec> I can easily make the encoder 4 count
[15:03:16] <alex_joni> a carthesian bear which underwent a coordinate transformation
[15:03:17] <pcw_home> its just a 1/2 disk
[15:03:25] <Aero-Tec> but you need index do you not?
[15:03:35] <pcw_home> A=index
[15:03:37] <alex_joni> Aero-Tec: you do need index for threading
[15:03:48] <andypugh> alex_joni: And a sheared sheep has undergone an affine transformation?
[15:03:49] <pcw_home> 2 wires = ABZ
[15:05:50] <Aero-Tec> thanks for all the help you guys have been
[15:06:50] <Aero-Tec> how can 2 wires do AB and Z?
[15:06:58] <Aero-Tec> I can see 3 wires
[15:07:09] <mevon_> andypugh, I kinda messed and the mantis.hal generated by stepconf wiz was overwritten, somehow in the ini Im loading two times the same file with a diff name and it works :S
[15:07:11] <andypugh> One wire does A and Z
[15:07:56] <andypugh> ie, the A and Z signals are identical, but LinuxCNC does different things with them.
[15:08:27] <andypugh> I keep meaning to add missing-tooth index to the encoder.
[15:09:24] <pcw_home> that should be easy at speed (and impossible when jittering around)
[15:09:43] <andypugh> That's what cars used for crank timing for years, and there are lots of neat magnetic encoders and hall detectors for them. (and, being made in the millions, they are fairly cheap, and have a crank-shaft sized through hole, so good for a lathe.
[15:10:28] <andypugh> pcw_home: Aye but then you don't _want_ to index unless the spindle is moving at a decent speed.
[15:10:28] <mevon_> someone knows where i could find the 9axis simulator .hal file?
[15:10:53] <pcw_home> right
[15:10:57] <Aero-Tec> A should switch several times per rpm, index only one time so how do you use 1 wire for both A and Z?
[15:11:03] <andypugh> In the config-picker. sim->axis->axis-9-axis I think
[15:11:38] <pcw_home> Heres a hint: a 4 count/turn encoder is a 1PPR encoder
[15:12:12] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: PCW might not have completely explained You need a semi-circular encoder disc and two sensors at 90 degrees.
[15:12:35] <Aero-Tec> ok cool
[15:12:52] <Aero-Tec> now that makes sense
[15:13:16] <andypugh> So one rev is A+Z+ B+ A-Z- B-. That's 4 AB counts and one rising edge on Z.
[15:13:30] <pcw_home> I have this picture in my head, I dont know why you cant see it
[15:14:40] <pcw_home> you would want fairly accurate 90 degree sensor placement
[15:15:13] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: What drives your spindle? You could use a single channel and counter mode on a gear or a toothed pulley.
[15:15:22] <Aero-Tec> is that good enough for rigid taping?
[15:15:34] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: I would say not.
[15:15:57] <andypugh> It is going to do badly at spotting the reversal point.
[15:16:35] <pcw_home> Yeah for tapping you probably want a much higher res encoder
[15:16:37] <andypugh> Worst-case it could be out by a quarter-pitch, and that sounds bad.
[15:16:51] <Aero-Tec> V belt but have gears that turn with the spindle so I could do a magnetic encoder
[15:17:33] <pcw_home> Steel gears?
[15:17:38] <Aero-Tec> yes
[15:17:43] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5770736261517681954 and the following few pictures
[15:17:47] <Aero-Tec> it is a big lathe
[15:18:55] <Aero-Tec> biggish
[15:18:59] <andypugh> You might spot that there are two versions. First a 180 degree quadrature encoder, then a more conventional 90 degree one :-)
[15:19:07] <pcw_home> Yeah a couple biased hall effect sensors with 1/4 tooth spacing offset would do
[15:19:34] <pcw_home> well 180 is 1/2 of a differential encoder
[15:21:31] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: These appear to be the only suitable sensor (unless you add your own magents to normal hall sensors). http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATS667-ATS667LSG-ATS667LSGTN-T-Gear-Tooth-Sensor-IC-/110725022530?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160
[15:22:41] <andypugh> pcw_home: Have you ever seen any alternatives?
[15:24:18] <pcw_home> No though you would think it would be more common
[15:25:14] <pcw_home> Allegro has a few similar parts
[15:31:47] <mevon_> whole bunch of nice goodies in the simulated machines
[15:31:58] <pcw_home> ATS627 seems similar
[15:32:39] <skunkworks> mevon_, linuxcnc is very powerfull..
[15:32:51] <skunkworks> mevon_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39q6kvrSBSk
[15:34:12] <andypugh> Maybe Allegro have a strong patent?
[15:34:41] <mevon_> anyone has setup their machine with virtual limit switches?
[15:35:03] <mevon_> simulated limit and home
[15:35:09] <andypugh> why would you want to?
[15:35:18] <mevon_> i know right :P
[15:35:21] <mevon_> but
[15:35:45] <mevon_> Im just wondering how kinuxcnc is working with the switches
[15:36:08] <mevon_> is it in the ini file?
[15:37:02] <andypugh> If you tried a real machine with simulated switches it would just move in one direction for a fixed length of time until the simulated limit switch component triggered. Then it would call whatever random position is was in "home". You are better with no home switches than simulated ones.
[15:37:07] <mevon_> HOME_IGNOR_LIMITS
[15:37:28] <mevon_> andy ok got it
[15:37:50] <andypugh> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS is for ignoring limit switches when homing. This lets you use one pin for all limits and all homes on all axes.
[15:38:20] <andypugh> (But does mean you can only home one axis at a time)
[15:38:35] <mevon_> ok ok i have limit switches physicly connected to the arduino
[15:39:17] <mevon_> the thing is, the arduino sketch only checks for limits before sending a jog to() command
[15:39:46] <mevon_> i find it odd how its implemented
[15:40:20] <mevon_> but it seems to only send feedback when the state of the switches change
[15:40:38] <pcw_home> MLX90217 (and your own magnet)
[15:40:51] <mevon_> i wanted to implement software limits so i could go to my limits
[15:41:02] <mevon_> without overstepping them
[15:42:05] <mevon_> simulated ones seemed nice but since the dimensions are set in the ini file, i bet emc wouldnt go over those right^
[15:42:12] <mevon_> right?
[15:42:56] <Aero-Tec> ok in the vid they had per fetching tool changes
[15:42:58] <andypugh> You would just confuse LinuxCNC.
[15:43:05] <Aero-Tec> how did they do that?
[15:43:35] <Aero-Tec> the tools will move around on the tool chain
[15:43:52] <andypugh> mevon_: Just mark some lines on the machine, jog there, then press the home button. (that makes your eyes into home switches, in effect).
[15:44:03] <pcw_home> code rings on the tool holders
[15:44:11] <Aero-Tec> so you would have to update the tool table for each tool change would you not?
[15:44:25] <mevon_> ok thannks for the advice this is really helpful to me
[15:44:47] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: LinuxCNC can be configured to pre-fetch the tool on the T command, and do the change on the M6. So you put a T for the next tool immediately after a toolchange.
[15:44:50] <Aero-Tec> code rings on the tool holder?
[15:45:28] <andypugh> That is how the machine knows which tool is about to enter the tool change position.
[15:45:54] <Aero-Tec> ok but how does EMC keep track of where the tools are on the chain?
[15:45:57] <mevon_> andypugh, would you think this would be useful? HALFILE = axis_manualtoolchange.hal
[15:46:15] <andypugh> mevon_: If you have changeable tools, then yes
[15:46:49] <mevon_> I do to make diff hole sizes
[15:47:01] <andypugh> Though you will see there is not much in that file, and you can combine it with the main HAL file. (Stepconf probably already put it in there)
[15:47:01] <mevon_> thanks
[15:47:03] <Aero-Tec> I can see the fist time the tool is used, but each time a tool is used it is moved on the tool chain to a new location
[15:47:09] <pcw_home> Since they are all labeled LinucCNC need not keep track of where they are
[15:47:12] <mevon_> ok
[15:47:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[15:47:35] <Aero-Tec> your joking right?
[15:47:44] <Aero-Tec> how does it read the tool
[15:47:57] <andypugh> No, there are mechanical bar-codes on the tools.
[15:48:02] <pcw_home> code rings
[15:48:06] <Aero-Tec> and how do you set up EMC to read the tool?
[15:48:13] <andypugh> And an array of microswitches that watch them go past.
[15:49:15] <andypugh> However…. That's not the usual way to do it. LinuxCNC can remember where in a carousel it put a tool, and can go there for it next time it wants it. skunkworks has a very unusual machine. It's probably one of the oldest CNC machines still running.
[15:50:25] <Aero-Tec> there sure are some very cool EMC controlled CNCs
[15:50:58] <Aero-Tec> one has to be impressed by it all
[15:51:22] <andypugh> I would hazard a guess that the K&T toolchanger uses something like: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/match8.9.html
[15:51:49] <skunkworks> acutally do it in ladder
[15:52:15] <skunkworks> &1 - &2 - &4 - &8 and so on
[15:52:20] <andypugh> I ought to try ladder, but I have so far not seen the need.
[15:52:54] <skunkworks> I did the tool chain/changer in ladder - the spindle gearbox in comp...
[15:53:28] <andypugh> You should use APL code somewhere, just to match the age of the machine.
[15:53:49] <Aero-Tec> so why not use EMCs way of being able to keep track of tools? why do tool encoding?
[15:54:27] <skunkworks> because it works as is.. There is no way to know what pocket is where in the current scheme
[15:54:28] <andypugh> That was what the machine was built with. I suspect that the machine has no feedback of absolute chain position, just what tool last went past.
[15:56:00] <Aero-Tec> also if EMC is tracking tools in the changes, does it keep tack of the new tool locations after a reboot of EMC?
[15:56:28] <skunkworks> doesn't need to
[15:56:34] <Aero-Tec> cool
[15:57:00] <Aero-Tec> on yours no as the tool is labeled
[15:57:12] <skunkworks> I call for tool 4898 and it runs the chain around scanning for one that matches that number.
[15:57:38] <Connor> barcode or something ?
[15:57:43] <cradek> but for some machines, like mine, yes it does keep track
[15:57:45] <skunkworks> mechanical barcode
[15:57:53] <skunkworks> right
[15:58:04] <Aero-Tec> but if EMC was tracking the tools through each tool change, is the new location of the tool recoded so if you have a power outage or what ever, the new tool locations are remembered?
[15:58:24] <cradek> yes the tool table always contains the current tool<->pocket mapping
[15:58:35] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
[16:02:14] <Aero-Tec> so what does a mechanical bar code look like, and can you make your own tool holder labels or are you stuck with finding old holders made for that machine?
[16:03:49] <skunkworks> we have quite a selection of tooling for that machine. It is its own design though - rarely find more.
[16:06:46] <mevon_> andypugh, so basicly i shouldnt be unliking in my .hal things that havent been linked before
[16:07:27] <mevon_> and linking them there should be the first time it was linked right?
[16:07:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:08:01] <Aero-Tec> one way to set up a single encoder with index is to have the index slot larger then the other slots
[16:08:37] <Aero-Tec> that was how mach was supposed to work
[16:08:50] <Aero-Tec> I even cut the encoder disk for that
[16:09:25] <Aero-Tec> but then found out that mach did not finish setting that up so had to block off 3 slots
[16:10:01] <Aero-Tec> you have 4 slots in the disk but one is larger then the rest
[16:10:14] <Aero-Tec> the index one is the larger one
[16:10:35] <Aero-Tec> not sure if that could be done with EMC or not
[16:10:42] <PCW> Andy volunteered to add the feature to the encoder comp :-)
[16:12:29] <Aero-Tec> if that could be done with EMC then my encoder disk is ready to go, just have to unblock the 3 slots
[16:12:59] <PCW> as long as its for threading, it should be OK not sure how well that will do with quadrature or reversals
[16:14:40] <Aero-Tec> true it would not give direction, but would give good spindle speeds during threading
[16:18:28] <Aero-Tec> BTW, how I am sure that Mach only looks at the index at the start of the threading run is I had a encoder problem that made the indicated speeds erratic, and Mach would cut the whole thread at the start speed no matter how much it changed during the thread run
[16:18:28] <PCW> how wide are the slots" LinuxCNCs width sensing resolution would depend on the base thread and spindle RPM and slot width (% of circumference)
[16:18:37] <andypugh> mevon_: Yes. Basically that custom.hal provided with the arduino driver is doing a lot of rewiring.
[16:20:02] <Aero-Tec> the index was 2 times the other ones if mem serves me
[16:20:27] <PCW> I guess the ideal would be 25% slot 75% blocked except index which would be 50%
[16:20:37] <PCW> slot
[16:20:54] <Aero-Tec> my slots are smaller then that
[16:21:03] <lwizardl> anyone here know if one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Portable-Storage-Food-Bags-Heat-Handheld-Instant-Sealer-Instant-Food-/310362516805?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48430c2d45 would seal the anti-static bags that ship with pc parts ?
[16:21:09] <mevon_> thanks andy, I learn fast when explained for a long time :PP
[16:21:40] <Aero-Tec> would be nice to use the whole encoder
[16:21:50] <PCW> pink bags probably
[16:21:56] <Aero-Tec> single opto
[16:22:14] <lwizardl> Aero-Tec, what about those silver bags like HDD's ship in
[16:22:37] <Tom_itx> probably would
[16:23:02] <Tom_itx> i don't seal em, just fold em over
[16:23:05] <Aero-Tec> what about them?
[16:23:14] <lwizardl> k for about $3 worth a test
[16:23:14] <PCW> how fast do you thread?
[16:23:29] <Aero-Tec> not fast
[16:23:30] <Tom_itx> i'd think so
[16:23:35] <Aero-Tec> will have to check
[16:23:55] <Tom_itx> lwizardl if you're gonna do that you should check on getting the bags in a roll
[16:23:57] <PCW> we seal em closed with a label
[16:24:02] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, Yeah that is what i usually do also but I have some parts that will be stored for long term and want to make sure they stay safe
[16:24:16] <Tom_itx> in the us?
[16:24:25] <Tom_itx> uline has alot of shipper supplies
[16:24:33] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, yeah looking at those from a few shipping companies like uline
[16:24:38] <lwizardl> Tom_itx, yup
[16:24:48] <Tom_itx> i get my padded envelopes from them
[16:24:54] <Tom_itx> #0 size iirc
[16:25:09] <Aero-Tec> so would it be easy to set up EMC to use my encoder?
[16:25:13] <Tom_itx> mouser was cheaper on the silver bags
[16:25:19] <PCW> Aero-Tec: how fast(RPM) do you thread
[16:25:28] <PCW> ?
[16:25:32] <Aero-Tec> 4 slots with one of them being 2 time the other ones and index
[16:25:42] <Aero-Tec> will check
[16:25:46] <jdh> does the current livecd have the latest linuxcnc?
[16:26:13] <cradek> no, you can always just run the updates to get it
[16:26:40] <jdh> but, it is 2.5 now, not 2.4?
[16:26:46] <cradek> yes
[16:26:56] <Tom_itx> it keeps asking me if i want to update the OS
[16:27:06] <jdh> my old livecd + updates is fine then?
[16:27:24] <Tom_itx> if it's 2.5
[16:27:58] <Aero-Tec> 320, 470, 690
[16:28:10] <Aero-Tec> would be one of them
[16:28:14] <jdh> I shoudl have spent $10 more on the case, this PSU looks like crap
[16:28:21] <Aero-Tec> depending on what I am cutting
[16:28:31] <PCW> Aero-Tec: how fast is you base thread?
[16:28:56] <Aero-Tec> thread pitch?
[16:29:07] <Aero-Tec> not sure what you asking with base thread
[16:29:22] <PCW> in your .ini file
[16:29:22] <Aero-Tec> what is a base thread?
[16:29:38] <Aero-Tec> oh
[16:30:03] <Aero-Tec> 25K if IIR
[16:30:10] <Aero-Tec> can check
[16:33:56] <Aero-Tec> yes
[16:34:01] <Aero-Tec> 25000
[16:34:26] <Aero-Tec> can get the specs of the encoder disk as well
[16:34:30] <PCW> 25000 ns?
[16:35:01] <Aero-Tec> in the INI the base period is 25000
[16:35:25] <Aero-Tec> not sure what unit is used
[16:35:33] <Aero-Tec> how can one tell?
[16:35:39] <mevon_> andypugh, Ive commented out the unlinks and I get this error now "custom.hal:85: Pin 'axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in' does not exist"
[16:36:03] <PCW> OK 40 KHz so at 690 RPM you have about 3500 sample points per turn
[16:36:04] <PCW> so you have to have enough sample points during the slots
[16:36:06] <PCW> to reliably detect the difference in the slots
[16:36:43] <PCW> seems easy actually
[16:40:19] <Aero-Tec> I have silver ducting tape blocking the slots
[16:40:25] <PCW> no good for for tapping however
[16:40:44] <Aero-Tec> would be cool to use it like it was designed
[16:41:11] <Aero-Tec> but would be better single point threading right?
[16:41:51] <Aero-Tec> with mach I had to do a whack of finishing passes to get the thread to be good enough
[16:42:00] <PCW> Yes should be (but still need mods to the encoder comp to work)
[16:42:23] <Aero-Tec> and some time I would see it take a bite that was to big
[16:42:25] <PCW> basically Andy's missing tooth index
[16:44:01] <Aero-Tec> so whats my next step to set this up?
[16:44:20] <Aero-Tec> I am still very new to all this
[16:45:02] <Aero-Tec> I would really like to have active tracking during the threading
[16:45:38] <Aero-Tec> and to have more then just index would be great
[16:48:12] <PCW> The easiest thing is probably to add an index sensor/deeper slot
[16:48:13] <PCW> Other wise you have to wait for someone to get interested enough to write the code
[16:55:50] <Aero-Tec> would be easier to add the gear tooth sensor
[16:56:09] <Aero-Tec> but thanks for your interest in this
[16:57:28] <Aero-Tec> how hard is it to learn programming EMC?
[16:57:37] <Aero-Tec> I have written programs
[16:58:01] <PCW> gear tooth sensor would be higher resolution as well
[16:58:07] <Aero-Tec> is there a programming manual for how to program EMC?
[17:00:04] <Aero-Tec> yes and I can do quadrature with it so rigid tapping as well
[17:00:26] <PCW> Not really but for this level (Hal Components) I would just look at the existing ones for guidance
[17:02:11] <PCW> yes you can do quadrature with 2 sensors a say 2 1/4 tooth pitch apart
[17:03:35] <PCW> (N+ 1/4)*tooth_pitch apart
[17:09:49] <andypugh> mevon_: Sorry, I was elsewhere
[17:10:02] <andypugh> Did you figure out that missing pin?
[17:33:35] * JT-Shop is back from the Lou
[18:22:23] <gmouer> has bldc been finalized for running red cap motors? Have a friend that wants to retrofit a mill with red cap motors
[18:24:04] <gmouer> searching around, it looked like running red cap motors under linuxcnc was still experimental, couldn't find a machine retro completed
[18:25:33] <andypugh> gmouer: As far as I know, nobody has done it yet.
[18:25:45] <gmouer> thats what I was afraid of
[18:26:03] <andypugh> It _ought_ to work. If it doesn't work, then I will make it work.
[18:26:37] <andypugh> (Even if I have to buy a motor to test with)
[18:27:47] <gmouer> wow, sounds like you really want to see it up and running
[18:28:07] <gmouer> I seen a youtube video of a red cap running but it had no holding torque
[18:29:23] <andypugh> Any idea what drive they were using? And what drive does your friend intend to use?
[18:30:23] <gmouer> my friend hates fanuc controls and drives, which new drive is not determined, we do not know the choices the guy on youtube used a amc drive
[18:30:41] <andypugh> I am pretty confident that I can make one work with a 7i39 or 8i20. Other drives might be harder to drive. (I am actually more worried about the drive than the motor)
[18:31:32] <andypugh> I don't really like the idea of straight conversion Fanuc Gray-code to Hall sensor, that trying to divide 16 by 6.
[18:31:48] <gmouer> give me one sec, I will find a link for the youtube video
[18:34:14] <gmouer> here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-MNy6-QanI
[18:35:01] <gmouer> my friend actually has some amc bldc drives onhand
[18:35:46] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I have seen that. I have had quite a lot of discussion with jsheerin. He doesn't lack ambition, he wants to make a hydrostatic bearing 5-axis machine.
[18:36:23] <gmouer> sounds like he is a very brave soul
[18:37:05] <andypugh> Actually, once the component has seen a Gray-code edge it should be able to commutate well on the incremental encoder.
[18:37:16] <gmouer> my friend has two VMC mills in fantastic condition with bad fanuc controls, he would love to retro them to emc but the motors/drives are the stumbling point
[18:38:11] <andypugh> He has no holding torque because he has no posittion loop PID.
[18:38:27] <gmouer> unfortunately, I am a near idiot on fanuc red cap motors and ac servos in general, but I have been reading
[18:38:59] <gmouer> I wondered about that, if he had a position pid loop, but doubted it was that simple
[18:39:31] <andypugh> He is driving the motor just as a motor, under current control.
[18:40:13] <gmouer> ok, that I understand, and the missing position control loop
[18:40:39] <gmouer> so it would work in the form in the video with a position loop added?
[18:40:51] <andypugh> I reckon so.
[18:41:17] <andypugh> Do you know what power/voltage your friends motors are?
[18:41:20] <gmouer> I am amazed nobody has done it
[18:41:38] <L84Supper> what unique about the fanuc red cap motors?
[18:41:56] <gmouer> I have the motor info on my hard drive if I look around a bit, I recall about 140V and about 13 amps
[18:42:00] <andypugh> 4-channel absolute feedback
[18:42:15] <andypugh> 8i20 can do that then.
[18:43:06] <gmouer> what about amc drives, he has some 25a peak, 200v bldc drives on hand
[18:43:36] <gmouer> I think they are the same family as the one in the video, and they are free
[18:43:44] <andypugh> Yeah, worth a try.
[18:43:59] <L84Supper> gmouer: have any spares? :)
[18:44:14] <andypugh> It ought to work. I could advise better with motor and drive specs
[18:44:34] <gmouer> LOL I want some of those drives too!!! He got 8 of them for $8 each from a machine at the scrap yard !
[18:45:10] <gmouer> you helped a lot andy, let me talk to him and dig up some info on the motors/encoders/drives
[18:45:19] <andypugh> I just emailed jsheerin to see if he reckons it's a working thing.
[18:45:53] <gmouer> thanks andy! I was wondering what his progress was
[18:46:45] <gmouer> My friend has some misc red cap motors that could be used to experiment with
[18:47:33] <andypugh> Bear in mind that all that stuff in the jsheerin videos is being done with the parport.
[18:48:15] <andypugh> I wouldn't really suggest that way as the ideal method.
[18:49:06] <gmouer> I wouldn't think a parport would have enough bandwith for a actual machine, mesa boards would be what we would use
[18:49:58] <andypugh> Yes, indeed. Just saying that that is at least part of the problem, I suspect.
[18:50:45] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/images/1_2-8_2_Start_ACME.jpg looks like just compensation for radial load wear
[18:50:54] <Valen> mesa really need an online ordering system ;->
[18:50:55] <gmouer> this is all good news, some bench tests with a spare motor and drive would be the first step
[18:50:56] <andypugh> I think he was losing encoder counts.
[18:51:18] <Valen> also how hard do you think making air bearings would be?
[18:51:29] <andypugh> Valen: I don't know why they don't just have a few boards on eBay / Amazon
[18:51:33] <gmouer> yea, those fanuc encoders are pretty high res usually and he was spinning 2-3K rpm as I recall
[18:51:34] <L84Supper> Valen: what type?
[18:52:00] <Valen> phone sec
[18:52:21] <L84Supper> Valen: we use them in really wide printers to float the carriage
[18:53:44] <andypugh> Air bearings are surprisingly easy
[18:54:02] <L84Supper> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/images/1_2-10_ACME.jpg unless they change the pitch slightly near the ends
[18:54:26] <Valen> i was thinking that they didn't seem too hard
[18:54:30] <L84Supper> hovercraft?
[18:54:35] <Valen> I wonder how they would go on something like a ballscrew
[18:55:31] <Valen> in place of a ballnut
[18:56:12] <L84Supper> I'd like to see the 3d model of that :)
[18:56:46] <andypugh> They used them at a company I worked for rather cleverly. A block on flexural supports was biased by the supports against the backplate. Apply air and it became free to float (and could be touched down on the surface of an IC die) then release the air pressure and it clamped against the backplate, back off a few um, and then whack the track.
[18:57:11] <Valen> one of the people who was here doing big things worked at an air bearing place, they made it out of porous graphite which got me thinking
[18:57:48] <Valen> if you just milled out a screw shape and added air ;->
[18:57:49] <L84Supper> if you can get enough air flow
[18:58:03] <andypugh> One good application would be on a cheap rotary table. Clamp it tight with belleville washers, push it off the seat with air pressure. Release air pressure for machining.
[18:58:12] <Valen> mainly I was looking at spindles
[18:58:43] <L84Supper> porous powdered metal
[18:58:52] <L84Supper> we use them for filters
[18:59:13] <Valen> andypugh: thats a nice one
[18:59:26] <andypugh> gmouer: Jsheerin says "Err, maybe. I never got it fully working, but that was due to me using the parallel port and it not being able to read the encoder fast enough, and I never got to full rpm, I believe we decided.
[18:59:27] <Valen> though you would need to watch for radial motion during that still
[18:59:27] <andypugh> Just fyi, I was distracted all spring and summer by motorcycle repair / fabrication and then cylinder head rebuilding in my car. Finished all that and then promptly got a new job and moved across the country. I do plan to get back to it eventually and do appreciate all your work. It just probably won't be for a while, as all my stuff is currently in storage in a warehouse somewhere... If this guy gets a system runnin
[18:59:28] <andypugh> definitely let me know. I would be very interested, especially in any bugs he has to sort out along the way."
[19:00:43] <L84Supper> out to lunch
[19:01:18] <gmouer> ok andy, I will talk with him now that I got some more info, he has been all fired up to retro those mills to linuxcnc
[19:01:52] <gmouer> I am hunting my old emails now, I know I have the motor/encoder info stashed away
[19:02:37] <andypugh> Worst-case, he could ship me a motor and drive to beat into submission.
[19:02:59] <gmouer> that is possible also
[19:03:40] <gmouer> it seems the heavy work is already in place for the red caps
[19:07:13] <andypugh> I don't see any reason for it not to work, as long as the motors are 4-channels of position + quadrature encoder output. Some have different absolute / serial / SSi schemes. We can't currently deal with those. (which is not to say that it is impossible, just not done)
[19:07:53] <gmouer> I think I can find motor encoder numbers, looking now
[19:08:27] * JT-Shop needs to make a DB25 cord grip
[19:09:36] <andypugh> Bit of tin, drill of your choice and a block of soft wood. Squish the drill shank through the metal into the wood in the vice. Bodge of a moment.
[19:10:27] <andypugh> vice - wood - metal strip - drill bit - vice …. Squeeze
[19:10:40] <JT-Shop> Bodge?
[19:10:47] <archivist> kludge
[19:10:52] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[19:11:00] * archivist is a translator :)
[19:11:04] <andypugh> Well, it's hardly the epitome of craftsmanship
[19:11:10] <JT-Shop> I was thinking of some uhmw things
[19:11:16] <gmouer> AHHA found motor info! x and y motors are Model 5S A06B-0314-B002#7000
[19:11:16] <gmouer> C89YC2412
[19:11:16] <gmouer> 3 phase 8 pole 2000 RPM 126Volts 5.8AMP
[19:11:27] <JT-Shop> with screws and straps and stuff
[19:11:51] * JT-Shop does know a small bit of English
[19:12:14] <archivist> I would just get a db25 whatever from my stock :)
[19:12:42] <JT-Shop> I need to pass the cable from the 5i25 through the panel to the 7i77
[19:12:42] <Valen> nice motors
[19:13:24] <andypugh> I have used the name "Bodgesoc Industries" for decades now. When I was a student all the clubs were foo-soc. Dramsoc, Artsoc, Physoc, Bridgesoc, Swimsoc. I was Bodgesoc.
[19:13:54] <Valen> I'm planning on getting the 170 odd volt 20A mesa drivers, anybody know of motors that suit it?
[19:14:33] <andypugh> Valen: Try the 5S A06B from Fanuc :-)
[19:14:41] * Valen slaps andypugh ;-P
[19:14:47] <gmouer> andy, did you see the motor info I posted?
[19:14:57] <JT-Shop> dang I still get the 7i77 errors on the BP
[19:15:27] <andypugh> gmouer: Posted here, or somewhere else?
[19:15:33] <gmouer> JT, I wrestled with the 7i77 but the battle ended up wond nicely
[19:15:43] <gmouer> Here Andy, I will do it again
[19:15:50] <gmouer> Model 5S A06B-0314-B002#7000
[19:15:50] <gmouer> C89YC2412
[19:15:50] <gmouer> 3 phase 8 pole 2000 RPM 126Volts 5.8AMP
[19:15:50] <JT-Shop> wond?
[19:16:19] <gmouer> those are the x and y motors, the z is bigger
[19:16:27] <andypugh> I saw that, it doesn't tell me much. Connector pinout is what I need.
[19:16:43] <PCW> JT-Shop: same errors?
[19:16:56] <gmouer> I have a pdf with machine schematics that give the pinouts and a block diagram
[19:17:13] <JT-Shop> Peter yes http://imagebin.org/235290
[19:17:56] <JT-Shop> I was finding the Y0 on the vise with the edge finder and they popped up
[19:18:25] <andypugh> Valen: Err, maybe. I never got it fully working, but that was due to me using the parallel port and it not being able to read the encoder fast enough, and I never got to full rpm, I believe we decided.
[19:18:25] <andypugh> Just fyi, I was distracted all spring and summer by motorcycle repair / fabrication and then cylinder head rebuilding in my car. Finished all that and then promptly got a new job and moved across the country. I do plan to get back to it eventually and do appreciate all your work. It just probably won't be for a while, as all my stuff is currently in storage in a warehouse somewhere... If this guy gets a system runnin
[19:18:26] <andypugh> definitely let me know. I would be very interested, especially in any bugs he has to sort out along the way.
[19:18:36] <andypugh> Ok. that went wrong.
[19:19:03] <andypugh> I meant: Valen: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270636075794
[19:19:41] <PCW> were there some other errors before that? (you should ever just see a channel not running error)
[19:20:13] <PCW> should never
[19:20:46] <andypugh> Valen: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-YASKAWA-SGM-02A312-AC-SERVO-MOTOR-SGM02A312-/350494789138?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item519b1e0e12&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1180 Looks nice, pity he sold the other two. You would need to research the spec.
[19:21:36] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Read and Write threads in the wrong order can do that
[19:21:41] <PCW> Oh I see (didn't scroll down enough)
[19:22:03] <JT-Shop> let me check them
[19:24:56] <PCW> Still looks like a ground loop
[19:24:58] <PCW> Is the 5I25 bracket grounded?
[19:25:11] <andypugh> Ah, sorry Valen, I just realised that searching ebay.au wasn't finding motors _in_ au.
[19:25:43] <JT-Shop> PCW: the 5i25 is installed in the computer case
[19:26:02] <PCW> OK
[19:26:54] <PCW> Is PC power from same source as mill?
[19:27:29] <JT-Shop> http://pastebin.com/xSh4FCG6
[19:27:31] <JT-Shop> yes
[19:28:13] <PCW> Pretty sure this is an electrical noise issue, not thread related
[19:31:26] <andypugh> Valen: If you are still there, I suggest an advanced search, and choose Thailand as the country to search. I don't know why, but it is a hotbed of automation sales. Here is one I did earlier: http://tinyurl.com/ctr6pse
[19:32:55] <PCW> Do you still have to 100 Ohm resistors in the analog GND connection to the drives?
[19:33:37] <andypugh> Valen: How much to ship these to .au? They look rather nice: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290581906599
[19:43:42] <Valen> andypugh: the drives are DC
[19:43:57] <Valen> the AC ones are more spendy and less ampy i believe?
[19:44:34] <Valen> I am looking at the kelig 19A 60V ones
[19:44:43] <andypugh> Ah, you are tallking 7i29 not 8i20?
[19:45:00] <Valen> yeah
[19:45:34] <Valen> 8i20 is $240 7i29 is $300 for 2 axies
[19:46:38] <Valen> heh I'm going to need a bigass transformer to run 2x 7i29s lol
[19:46:51] <Valen> be nice to be in a 110V country and just bridge rectify mains lol
[19:47:24] <andypugh> I bridge-rectify mains and the 8i20 is happy.
[19:48:06] <Valen> $960 vs $600 + a psu
[19:48:16] <andypugh> You might make back the difference on PSU
[19:48:36] <Valen> i dunno, the psu can be somewhat undersized
[19:48:38] <andypugh> And brushes are so Victorian
[19:48:45] <Valen> I was just going to get a torroid
[19:48:54] <Valen> lol you and your hatement of carbon ;-p
[19:49:13] <Valen> I'll wager dc motors are cheaper too
[19:49:24] <Valen> the kelig ones are like $60 new
[19:49:25] <PCW> Brush motor are still the quickest
[19:49:33] <Valen> quickest?
[19:49:42] <PCW> (ironless)
[19:49:57] <Valen> pcw ordering internationally is a pain in the butt from mesa, you know that right? ;-P
[19:50:00] <andypugh> I love carbon, in its place. Its place is bicycle frames and motorcycle fairings.
[19:51:56] <Valen> is it ok to fax CC info outside business hours?
[19:52:30] <PCW> I would not
[19:52:41] <andypugh> At work we have soot sensors in the exhaust. We try to stay below 2 FSN, 4FSN is right out. When the sensor is mid-measure the logging system reads 1000000000 FSN. (which is really annoying when we have a limit set, why not a similar negative number?). Anyway, I assume that a billion smokes would be a column of solid graphite out the exhaust. Which is a mental image I quite like.
[19:53:19] <PCW> (janitors)
[19:53:40] <andypugh> PCW: Seriously, why not put a couple of each popular board up on eBay on a Buy-it-now?
[19:54:38] <PCW> We have a store coming fairly soon
[19:54:48] <Valen> the problem I have is i'm about 14 hours ahead, so your business hours are my sleeping hours
[19:55:31] <andypugh> Talking of sleep, I have to be up in 5 hours to go mountain-biking. Goodnight all.
[19:55:46] <PCW> JT-Shop: still around?
[19:55:47] <PCW> bye Andy
[19:56:14] <Valen> thanks for the ideas andypugh
[19:57:30] <Valen> ok so midnight on tuesday I shall send through an order lol
[19:59:23] <PCW> you could do it any weekday evening just not Friday
[19:59:55] <Valen> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=12&month=11&year=2012&p1=240&p2=212&iv=0
[20:01:48] <Valen> nb i'm not a morning person lol
[20:02:44] <PCW> bbl
[20:05:09] <JT-Shop> pcw yes for a bit
[20:05:56] * JT-Shop heads inside now
[20:24:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/iTAx5.jpg
[20:24:26] <r00t4rd3d> id do it
[21:29:16] <tjb1> Any comments http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[21:29:39] <r00t4rd3d> gay
[21:29:41] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[21:30:10] <ReadError> whats the reason for the curves ?
[21:30:39] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i was wondering the same
[21:30:44] <tjb1> straight line cuts dont ruin a whole slat
[21:30:46] <r00t4rd3d> water flow or something
[21:30:49] <toastydeath> if i had to guess it's a plasma cutter, and he's trying to avoid ruining a line
[21:30:57] <toastydeath> yeeee
[21:31:18] <toastydeath> i feel so baller when I guess things related to manufacturing
[21:31:35] <tjb1> but i typed the answer before you did :P
[21:31:41] <toastydeath> i know but i was typing
[21:32:28] <lwizardl> nice looking
[21:33:02] <tjb1> hey r00t4rd3d how are those alum side plates?
[21:33:52] <lwizardl> I was wondering how much would building a cnc machine for 8x4 sheets cost?
[21:34:26] <tjb1> plamsa?
[21:35:03] <lwizardl> tjb1, if that was for me, no I was looking at just a standard router type
[21:35:42] <tjb1> lwizardl: Mine will do router here soon, I have about $3100 in the table
[21:35:53] <tjb1> You can take $450 off that for the water table
[21:37:20] <lwizardl> tjb1, I was just curious because I know I will be using my mill for making arcade game cabinets randomly. and I think I would rather build 1 machine versus having like 2-3 one for each job type
[21:38:07] <tjb1> Im going to make something where I can throw a 4x8sheet of mdf on there, going to try and make it so it holds it like 1/4" above the slats but im not sure how I will support the whole thing and keep any tolerance
[21:38:55] <lwizardl> yeah kinda what i want to do
[21:39:57] <tjb1> I might buy another sheet of 12 gauge and make it mount on pins inside the water table and put the mdf on that
[21:40:19] <tjb1> maybe 14 gauge…12 is pretty heavy
[21:40:53] <toastydeath> bigass vacuum table
[21:41:01] <toastydeath> make it out of mdf and bolt it to yout table
[21:41:06] <toastydeath> *your
[21:41:13] <tjb1> That 4x8 sheet of mdf is 96#
[21:41:50] <toastydeath> where the jews are you getting your mdf
[21:42:02] <toastydeath> a 4x8 sheet of mdf at home depot is like, 17 bucks
[21:42:07] <tjb1> 96 pounds
[21:42:10] <tjb1> $34
[21:42:23] <tjb1> Its 3/4 thick also ;)
[21:42:33] <toastydeath> so?
[21:42:40] <ReadError> tjb1, you need to make this thing a convertable
[21:42:48] <ReadError> where you can have dual z axis
[21:42:51] <ReadError> for a router too ;)
[21:42:53] <toastydeath> if you have a router, you can carve out the majority of the mdf
[21:42:55] <tjb1> Oh boy, dual Z
[21:43:07] <toastydeath> and it'll still be just fine
[21:43:15] <toastydeath> then back it with 1/4" or something
[21:43:47] <tjb1> I dont need a vaccum, I just need a way to put the mdf on top of the water table where it is repeatable
[21:44:26] <tjb1> I have an idea but its gonna have to wait until the table is running again :/
[21:44:34] <toastydeath> repeatable how
[21:44:47] <toastydeath> if it's a 4x8 sheet and it's going to STAY square, all you need is three pins
[21:45:20] <toastydeath> if you're talking about making any arbitrary shape repeatable, let me know if you solve that because there's a whole industry waiting to hear from you
[21:48:58] <tjb1> No so its held above the water table and slats since that wont always be flat, I want to put the MDF on and it be in a general location and flat so I dont have to cut the whole surface everytime
[21:50:21] <toastydeath> metal supports with fixed locations on the table that support and mdf torsion box
[21:51:20] <toastydeath> dunno man
[21:51:31] <tjb1> I would need a torsion box with a 3/4 sheet of mdf?
[21:58:40] <toastydeath> it's pretty floppy, but do whatever you want
[22:01:33] <tjb1> Ill see how many supports I can throw in there
[22:36:11] <ReadError> ;)
[22:38:15] <p0staL> :)
[22:45:15] <tjb1> :(
[22:56:37] <tjb1> ReadError: Any updates on the quad?
[22:57:29] <ReadError> always bro
[22:57:37] <ReadError> im working on some centers right now
[22:57:48] <ReadError> p0staL is my partner in crime
[22:58:02] <p0staL> :)
[22:58:08] <p0staL> He's got me jealous of having a CNC
[22:58:13] <ReadError> hes lookin to get a cnc router
[22:58:13] <p0staL> so, i just asked the wifey for one for my bday this month
[22:58:20] <ReadError> told him the fireball would be a good option
[22:59:03] <ReadError> tell her you need one of these p0staL http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/550064_4571154312879_2086822260_n.jpg
[23:01:55] <tjb1> That damn post down the middle is screwing me pretty good :(
[23:03:38] <ReadError> you must be pretty good at welding
[23:03:40] <ReadError> i want to learn
[23:04:04] <tjb1> Good at mig, trying to learn to use the tig we have
[23:05:35] <alpha1125> ReadError what are the rails made from?
[23:05:46] <ReadError> thats tjb1's
[23:05:49] <alpha1125> ReadError, sorry, looking at the pic… is that yours?
[23:06:36] <alpha1125> oh… tjb1 what's the rail system ? 6 bearings, rolling on the edge of a plate steel/aluminum?
[23:07:02] <tjb1> alpha1125:
[23:07:03] <tjb1> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/extended-linear-carriage-with-abec-7-bearings-p-35.html
[23:07:21] <tjb1> Those ride on 1/4x4" CRS that is bolted to 3"x3" t-slots extrusion
[23:07:27] <alpha1125> like, sandwiching the railsexactly what I thought.
[23:08:17] <alpha1125> Are they on cammed bolts, to help with adjustments?
[23:09:03] <tjb1> the bottom bearings are adjustable by set screws
[23:09:09] <tjb1> here is a bunch of pictures of my table - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4483033549915.2181311.1112377031&type=1&l=5c10b7f68d
[23:09:37] <p0staL> jesus
[23:09:50] <alpha1125> got any videos of this monster running?
[23:10:00] <alpha1125> I see further down.
[23:10:39] <tjb1> The videos I have are a couple weeks back before I got all the cable chains done
[23:10:49] <tjb1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWqK9-27Siw
[23:10:55] <ReadError> tjb1, instead of having the table folded
[23:10:57] <tjb1> No water table either
[23:11:03] <ReadError> why didnt you just weld sides on?
[23:11:58] <tjb1> The water table?
[23:12:05] <ReadError> yea
[23:12:11] <tjb1> Its 113" x 66"
[23:12:13] <alpha1125> I would love to have that… wife would kill me though. lol.
[23:12:23] <alpha1125> may I ask approx how much you sunk into the setup?
[23:12:31] <tjb1> Cost a lot for the wire and argon plus have to deal with warping and keeping it water tight
[23:12:40] <tjb1> About $3100 now
[23:12:56] <tjb1> I did have to pay $137 to have that sheet bent though :/
[23:12:59] <alpha1125> hmm… a mac pro… plasma cutter rid, or a mac pro… lol
[23:13:10] <alpha1125> rig*
[23:13:28] <ReadError> simple
[23:13:33] <ReadError> build a hackintosh
[23:13:40] <ReadError> spend the rest on a plasma cutter
[23:14:01] <alpha1125> ReadError, I can't be bother with a hackintosh… not for a work computer… time is money.
[23:14:12] <tjb1> I love my mbp but it was expensive
[23:14:13] <alpha1125> for a hobby thing, sure… I would do it...
[23:14:15] <ReadError> yea except it takes like....2hrs
[23:14:27] <alpha1125> when you upgrade the OS?
[23:14:28] <ReadError> to build and install
[23:14:42] <ReadError> alpha1125, no real issues
[23:14:47] <ReadError> but before any upgrade
[23:14:52] <ReadError> i run carbon copy cloner
[23:14:52] <tjb1> This is the very first cut the table did - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL17PuXEGw
[23:15:06] <ReadError> and i can always boot back on the last working copy easy
[23:15:27] <tjb1> Stay away from Parallels, VirtualBox, VMware, and Wine if you want to run any CAD
[23:15:33] <tjb1> Bootcamp is the only way
[23:15:41] <ReadError> tjb1, i disagree
[23:15:48] <alpha1125> hmm… what I want right now, is something I can mount to a TV… a mac mini suits the case well. Wife is open to the idea of having a TV with a mac mini… or appletv… or whatever… as long as cables aren't all over the place.
[23:16:01] <ReadError> i run solidworks in parallels exclusively
[23:16:07] <tjb1> I hated parallels
[23:16:10] <tjb1> It installs too deep
[23:16:20] <ReadError> no issues here brotha
[23:16:31] <ReadError> works good
[23:16:33] <alpha1125> i've used VB… and VMware… VMware Fusion was much faster…
[23:16:43] <alpha1125> haven't done any cad work on the mac.
[23:16:48] <ReadError> parallels smokes vmware* on OSX
[23:16:55] <ReadError> but vmware ESXI is super slick
[23:17:03] <alpha1125> I used to be a wizzard with autocad 11, 12, 14… 2000… stopped after that.
[23:17:05] <tjb1> Bootcamp is faster
[23:17:09] <tjb1> :P
[23:17:13] <ReadError> tjb1, its all specs too
[23:17:26] <alpha1125> crap, it's late… I need to go to bed.
[23:17:26] <ReadError> i have an ati 6870 and 16gb ram in my osx box
[23:17:47] <ReadError> it cranks out 3d no probs
[23:17:54] <tjb1> Mine is the nvidia gt330m with 8gb
[23:17:56] <ReadError> no lag what so ever
[23:18:10] <tjb1> best 15" mbp you could buy when I got it
[23:18:11] <ReadError> my mbp i only use at work
[23:18:13] <ReadError> 2 days a week
[23:18:14] <p0staL> fml
[23:18:20] <ReadError> but its an i7/16gb ram too
[23:18:21] <p0staL> the one part i dont' have a copy of, just broke on the 3d printer
[23:18:22] <p0staL> :P
[23:18:32] <tjb1> acetone it?
[23:18:34] <ReadError> since i run virtuals on it
[23:18:41] <tjb1> What year is yours?
[23:18:45] <ReadError> p0staL, i might be able to get you one too ;)
[23:18:48] <tjb1> Has to be pretty new to be using 16gb
[23:18:53] <ReadError> but max might be faster
[23:19:01] <ReadError> tjb1, erm like 2010
[23:19:09] <ReadError> i think
[23:19:10] <tjb1> mine is mid 2010 and maxes at 8gb
[23:19:12] <p0staL> max can print me one
[23:19:18] <ReadError> im not sure tbh
[23:19:25] * ReadError thinks
[23:19:29] <tjb1> I miss snow leopard though :(
[23:19:33] <ReadError> which part
[23:19:38] <ReadError> i havnt put lion on yet
[23:19:45] <ReadError> heard some shit doesnt work
[23:19:48] <tjb1> im on mountain lion
[23:19:50] <ReadError> mountain lion
[23:19:58] <ReadError> or w/e that new 10.7 or w/e is
[23:20:05] <ReadError> damn cats
[23:20:09] <ReadError> cant keep them straight
[23:20:14] <tjb1> mountain lion = 10.8
[23:20:20] <ReadError> yea that
[23:20:29] <ReadError> ;p
[23:20:32] <tjb1> I cant play diablo 2 anymore
[23:20:36] <tjb1> They killed it
[23:20:36] <ReadError> little snitch didnt work on it i heard
[23:20:46] <tjb1> Shhh cant talk of that here :P
[23:21:04] <ReadError> d2 is cool
[23:21:10] <ReadError> you no have 3 ?
[23:21:19] <tjb1> no
[23:21:21] <tjb1> d2 got boring
[23:21:29] <tjb1> I dont like playing the same thing over and over
[23:22:03] <tjb1> I had like 6-7 accounts just to hold everything I had and then someone hacked them and I quit
[23:27:07] <tjb1> what printers are you guys using?
[23:27:16] <tjb1> Im planning on building a hadron ord in january
[23:27:43] <ReadError> prusa2 here
[23:27:48] <ReadError> get that kit tjb1 ;p
[23:27:55] <ReadError> from that site
[23:28:10] <tjb1> what kit from what site?
[23:28:16] <tjb1> the hadron from keiling?
[23:28:20] <ReadError> that one from automated tech
[23:28:24] <ReadError> yea keiling
[23:28:27] <ReadError> they are the same place
[23:30:01] <tjb1> Thats where im getting it from
[23:31:19] <tjb1> With a qu-bd extruder…maybe the dual extruder
[23:36:24] <p0staL> halo4 time :)
[23:36:42] <tjb1> already beat it :P
[23:37:29] <tjb1> You should add me, we can big team infinity slayer
[23:37:35] <tjb1> I like to plow people with ghosts
[23:38:16] <ReadError> you can play over cell connection tjb1 ?
[23:39:41] <tjb1> probably but im in school so i play on highspeed
[23:43:36] <tjb1> Add me up - SgtSarcasm
[23:56:59] <tjb1> Anyone know of a cheap laptop $300-$400 that can handle solidworks
[23:57:03] <tjb1> and other programs of the sort