#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-04

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[00:46:59] <Tecan> grummund ?
[02:05:58] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:41:03] <Spida> moin
[03:29:30] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:30:18] <Vq> g'dmorning
[03:31:05] <Loetmichel> <- coffee, then on the road to work... boss and his shipping deadlines... :-(
[03:31:49] <archivist> haha... /me off to play steam engines
[07:17:27] <jthornton> holy crap it works in windblows now
[08:55:58] * JT-Shop builds a small fire in the shop
[08:56:34] <Jymmm> making lunch from the alligator and it won't fit in the house?
[08:58:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25333
[11:02:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[11:05:44] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: today i opend up the encoder case and i found i grayscale dial inside
[11:06:15] <IchGuckLive> so i guess it is not a incremental as always expected in the datasheeds o f the motor it can be a absolute one
[11:07:00] <IchGuckLive> this woudt also then give the 3 signal at the outputs
[12:12:50] <Phobos> Hi everyone - I have a problem with a freshly installed linuxcnc 2.5.0 it crashes at startup just 5 secs after the spash screen
[12:19:07] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: hit F6 at sturtup and delete the AHCP
[12:20:41] <Phobos> ok
[12:29:28] <Phobos> did you say AHCP or AHCI I got myself confused
[12:30:08] <IchGuckLive> there are 3 choces use one
[12:36:33] <sliptonic> pcw_home: I might need a little guidance with actually wiring my VFD. I know it should be easy :-) With a pot wired between 10V and ACM on the VFD and the wiper on VIN, it controls speed fine. When I replace the wiper with the 0-10V signal from analog5 on the 7i77, it doesn't work.
[12:37:48] <archivist> I see no mention of a 0v connection in that sentence
[12:38:10] <sliptonic> Sorry to be dense but they didn't cover any of this in my psychology classes.
[12:38:53] <Phobos> I went into BIOS and ascertained ACPI off. Is that what you wanted me to do?
[12:39:06] <IchGuckLive> no
[12:39:20] <IchGuckLive> there are choises at the start of ubuntu
[12:39:33] <IchGuckLive> NOLAPIC NOAPIC
[12:40:10] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Boot-Options.png
[12:40:18] <Phobos> cool thanks
[12:40:27] <IchGuckLive> F6 other options
[12:41:07] <IchGuckLive> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Boot-F6-Other.png
[12:41:17] <IchGuckLive> the first 3 try one on its own
[12:41:34] <archivist> you need an electrical class not psychology
[12:41:37] <IchGuckLive> realtime needs lapic i guess
[12:42:26] <sliptonic> archivist: clearly. But in the meantime, I rely upon the kindness of strangers and blind luck.
[12:42:45] <archivist> a voltage is with reference to some 0v connection on both devices
[12:43:10] <archivist> so that 0v reference needs another wire
[12:44:32] <sliptonic> 0v being 'ACM' on VFD and GND on 7i77?
[12:44:44] <archivist> very likely
[12:44:45] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: is this a 2 kernel pc
[12:54:01] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: ?
[12:56:04] <sliptonic> archivist: Thank you. That clears things up considerably.
[12:57:46] <archivist> missing gnd and 0v connections can damage stuff, be careful
[13:04:07] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
[13:05:25] <Phobos> @IchGuckLive Did that - bootrepair set grub options NOLAPIC NOAPIC - with no improvement. Odd thing is, in 10% of cases the gui does come up right (using sim.axismm)
[13:13:31] <roh> hm.. anyone an idea how far the rtai on arm stuff went?
[13:13:46] <roh> as in: is there a non-pc platform worth running axis and emc on?
[13:21:12] <L84Supper> roh: I've been waiting and watching for that myself
[13:21:47] <L84Supper> roh: possibly an ARM soc with PCIe to connect to the Mesa FPGA cards
[13:21:54] <archivist> best watch the developers mailing list for that methinks
[13:22:21] <roh> L84Supper: i am thinking into another direction. cheaper, smaller, less power hungry
[13:22:31] <L84Supper> there are some new ARM soc boards with PCIe, but the price is higher than x86
[13:22:44] <roh> into the 'use a rasberry to run emc on and put the display on a rooted chromebook'
[13:22:46] <L84Supper> cheaper is the hurdle
[13:24:00] <roh> lets say 'more reliable, less moving parts and components'
[13:24:05] <L84Supper> without PCIe you are limited to the GPIO on an ARM soc, I haven't seen anything ARM yet with fast enough GPIO that makes any sense
[13:24:06] <roh> pc are dead cheap
[13:24:29] <L84Supper> except for imx6 boards
[13:24:35] <roh> L84Supper: gpio arent faster or slower than what you can to on pci-e.. depending on the latching
[13:25:23] <roh> in the end its all AHB.
[13:26:17] <L84Supper> for $60 i can get an AMD APU mini-itx with a decent GPU + PCIe
[13:26:37] <roh> sure. and it eats power for breakfast and has expensive moving parts which fail
[13:26:45] <roh> and its big.
[13:27:00] <L84Supper> I still can't come close with an ARM soc since they won't sell the SOC's to anyone except for a lucky few
[13:27:06] <roh> together with drives(psu/etc
[13:28:58] <L84Supper> if i could actually buy imx6 or Exynos parts for $25 in volume, I'd make the boards. I can buy leftovers on Chinese overstock/leftover parts swap sites or out the backdoor for a while.
[13:29:45] <roh> yeah. making boards is hard (expensive) if one doesnt go to 5 or 6 digit scale
[13:29:48] <L84Supper> Renesas never got back to us either with their 2-4 core cortex a9 devices
[13:30:38] <L84Supper> the allwinner a10 cortex a8 doesn't have PCIe and there is no spec for the GPIO's
[13:30:56] <roh> thats why i ask about commodity boards. i could imagine using something like a mesa 7i43 board tied to some arm board via gpio to run the core on
[13:31:15] <L84Supper> somebody leaked source for the amlogic a9's dual core soc
[13:31:18] <roh> forget pci-e. that one doesnt exist in reasonable priced or available boards
[13:31:37] <L84Supper> roh: the ARM soc's just haven't been made available
[13:32:01] <L84Supper> nvidia won't talk to you
[13:32:18] <L84Supper> Samsung is about the same for anything better than an arm11
[13:32:37] <roh> thats why i wrote before.. forget building anything if you dont want to do >5 or 6 digits.
[13:32:40] <L84Supper> freescale imx6 is months behind schedule
[13:33:11] <roh> i do reverse engineering for licence compliance, so i see whats inside a lot of devices... its not we dont have powerful enough chips
[13:33:17] <L84Supper> thee are a few <$100 arm boards ....
[13:33:26] <roh> freescale is utterly expensive.
[13:33:44] <roh> even if i like their open documentation
[13:33:50] <L84Supper> the imx6's are ~$25 for a 2-4 core
[13:34:03] <roh> maybe. too expensive for that market.
[13:34:16] <L84Supper> http://cubieboard.org/
[13:36:10] <L84Supper> http://liliputing.com/2012/07/hardkernel-odroid-x-129-android-developer-board-with-quad-core-cpu.html
[13:36:29] <roh> L84Supper: there are thousands of useable boards. you dont need to post them all.
[13:36:38] <L84Supper> not really
[13:36:39] <roh> and any would need a proper working arm kernel with rtai or rt.
[13:36:51] <L84Supper> just a few <$100
[13:38:07] <L84Supper> http://wandboard.org/
[13:38:49] <roh> L84Supper: you seem to miss the point. there IS hardware. whats missing is the kernel. what happened to that rtai on beagleboard approach?
[13:39:13] <L84Supper> if a tablet vendor would route the PCIe out that would solve it
[13:39:48] <L84Supper> roh: there is kernel, we would push RTAI if there was a board worth supporting
[13:39:49] <Jymmm> L84Supper: That's called ThunderBolt btw.
[13:40:23] <L84Supper> Jymmm: whats called "Thunderbolt" ?
[13:40:40] <Jymmm> L84Supper: "vendor would route the PCIe out "
[13:41:01] <roh> forget both. soc vendors dont care about pci-c on low power soc
[13:41:07] <Jymmm> L84Supper: ThunderBolt == External PCIe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_%28interface%29
[13:41:27] <L84Supper> oh external PCIe
[13:42:00] <L84Supper> for now AMD APU's are fine
[13:42:02] <roh> much too expensive power budget and component wise.. and not needed usually. remember.. those soc are mainly intended to go into smartphones, tablets and small notebooks. neither need pci-e or thuberbolt
[13:42:24] <L84Supper> no problem with availability, price, power, RTAI
[13:42:35] <roh> L84Supper: my point is: i wanted something which is 'not a pc'. no acpi, no broken harddisks.. etc
[13:42:59] <roh> and also widely available.. thus using a popular platform
[13:43:01] <L84Supper> yes, thats why we use AMD apu's + coreboot
[13:43:17] <L84Supper> BIOS and EFI are broken
[13:43:19] <roh> ah. coreboot. ok thats a solution to the acpi issue
[13:43:43] <L84Supper> if you have a better suggestion I'm all ears
[13:43:50] <roh> bbl.. need to run.
[13:43:52] <Jymmm> roh: horseshit! How else am I gonna connect my watchphone to a 60" big screen and 20PB NAS for high speed computing!
[13:44:04] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Speaking of coreboot... I got a new board at work (server, not linuxcnc related). The bios is 8MB... You could fit an entire kernel as payload with room to spare on those.
[13:44:32] <roh> Jymmm: not. it would run out of power fast anyhow.. i would bet that in a year or 2 most new phones dont have hdmi out anymore. eats space, costs money, nobody uses it
[13:45:22] <Jymmm> roh: you would be surprised.
[13:45:53] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: heh, 10 years ago we had 512K-1MB
[13:45:53] <roh> Jymmm: you know that motorola netbook-thingie?
[13:46:03] <L84Supper> thats why Eric wrote kexec
[13:46:14] <Jymmm> roh: But whats funny is they have their ENTIRE life on a phone, yet no real way to back it up and "reuse" in on another PC if needed.
[13:46:20] <roh> Jymmm: a tft with hdmi in, and a usb keyboard with battery... in a case to plug in your motorola phone...
[13:46:24] <Jymmm> roh: the google tablet, yeah
[13:46:48] <roh> now its sold off for 70E and people use it to build rasberry pi notebooks
[13:47:00] <L84Supper> he fit kernel and coreboot into <512KB or was it even under 256KB at one point
[13:47:52] <Jymmm> roh: Oh, the "docking station" for your phone. ok.
[13:48:20] <roh> yep. people really like it for nonintened usecases.. i know nobody who has the fitting phone x-)
[13:48:43] <L84Supper> the new Google/Samsung Chromebook as a dual core a15, not sure if there is any GPIO to hook into
[13:48:57] <Jymmm> roh: heh
[13:49:04] <L84Supper> maybe SDIO
[13:49:18] <roh> L84Supper: i would use that only for the head to run axis on. ;) put the hostmod somewhere inside the cnc machine, connect via ip
[13:49:35] <roh> would be cool to have a carry-able userinterface
[13:49:46] <L84Supper> roh: have you seen the mini2440 with linuxcnc and RTAI?
[13:50:05] <roh> nope? but i have one of those boards around in our collection
[13:50:07] <L84Supper> arm9 board
[13:50:58] <roh> bbiam. switch locations
[13:53:46] <L84Supper> http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/ he used xenomai with Linux kernel version 2.6.35.9
[13:54:01] <L84Supper> mini2440 platform: ARM920T CPU running at 400 MHz, 64Mb
[14:16:13] <andypugh> roh: Carryable UI? Have you seen http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/forum/21-axis/18951-touchscreen-operation-with-ipad-possible?start=6&lang=english#25968
[14:19:33] <L84Supper> andypugh: how important is it to have 16b+ res for simulation in LinuxCNC? Is the line art quality good enough for most CNC operators?
[14:20:31] <andypugh> Can you try rephrasing the question in a way I understand?
[14:21:09] <L84Supper> thinking of axis
[14:22:06] <L84Supper> would having the tool path simulation/preview in high res vs the current line art be of any value?
[14:25:16] <L84Supper> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/images/axis-2.5.png if this was more photo-realistic would it be of any value?
[14:27:40] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSnNtgZrfyU oh a new ARM Linuxcnc project running on Pico-SAM9G45
[14:27:52] <andypugh> You are thinking of something a bit like awallin's "Cutsim"? http://www.anderswallin.net/2010/08/cutsim-progress/
[14:28:53] <L84Supper> andypugh: yes, i haven't seen that yet
[14:31:58] <roh> andypugh: i dont use apple devices.
[14:33:06] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ls5ta7eg8&feature=plcp Linuxcnc (emc2) running on Pico-SAM9G45 high speed spindle test
[14:34:15] <andypugh> roh: I think that the idea is probably usable on other devices.
[14:41:32] <L84Supper> http://www.mini-box.com/pico-SAM9G45-X is $69 still ?!
[14:44:21] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6TFW1F6oY0
[14:45:14] <roh> L84Supper: nice board. just no pci-e on the pci-e connector (usb only)
[14:45:27] <L84Supper> if the i.mx6's actually ship for <$20 (single core) then you could make an ARM board with GPIO to support a few steppers drivers for <$50
[14:45:34] <ve7it> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MYQB1NdsXA&feature=related calking extruder making fishing bait.... cool use for emc
[14:46:08] <L84Supper> roh: yeah for steppers, PCIe + FPGA is going to be the only solution for servos for a while
[14:48:36] <L84Supper> ve7it: nice way to 3dp flexible parts
[14:49:12] <ve7it> an o-ring extruder would be handy
[14:50:35] <roh> L84Supper: i will go the parport+7i43 way when using a fpga at all
[14:51:03] <roh> to be fair.. none of the machines we run emc on even has pci-e .. they all are too old
[14:51:49] <roh> we'll see how the lasercutter retrofit works... still need to decide on stepperdrivers and interfacing. (currently we got a newlydraw controller and sw for it)
[14:52:27] <SWPadnos> there are also PCI options, it doesn't have to be PCIe
[14:52:31] <L84Supper> roh: maybe a mod to the VHDL in the 7i43 for other GPIO? make the best use of an ARM SOC's IO
[14:53:31] <L84Supper> AMD APU's are down to <5W, DDR3 sticks are real cheap
[14:53:40] <andypugh> ve7it: This guy made his own O-rings because he neede super-small ones… http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=fuel_injectors
[14:53:43] <roh> L84Supper: exactly.. i think we can find 8-16 gpio even on dirt cheap dsl routers
[14:54:19] <roh> andypugh: just cut the o-rings with a lasercutter?
[14:55:09] <roh> or what material is that? ... man thats small
[14:56:11] <L84Supper> silicones for high temp
[14:57:53] <L84Supper> roh: we worked with the mini2440's and the sam9g45's in the past few years for printers
[14:58:33] <roh> btw.. for able people these chinese lasercutters are great fun and bang for the buck. especially if you are not afraid of tinkering and retrofits. the worst part is software (of which we all know better one)
[14:58:39] <L84Supper> there's not much cpu power left for other processes
[14:59:17] <roh> L84Supper: well.. so its a candidate to only run the pid loops etc on and do the ui on something else (gl-capable netbook, chromebook etc)
[14:59:19] <L84Supper> roh; part of what I'm working on is taking Linuxcnc into machines made in China
[14:59:44] <roh> i am right that i can run axis on a non-rtai platform as long as the rest of emc is on rtai/xenomai?
[14:59:57] <roh> L84Supper: nice. any way one can help?
[14:59:57] <L84Supper> yes, over VNC
[15:00:19] <roh> no vnc. i meant running emc distributed via ip
[15:00:34] <roh> i havent tried it but thats how i understood the documentation
[15:00:38] <SWPadnos> roh, yes and no
[15:00:39] <L84Supper> we are talking to the CNC makers there as we shop for our new equipment
[15:00:56] <roh> SWPadnos: dare to elaborate? ;)
[15:01:00] <SWPadnos> AXIS exports some HAL pins, which can't directly connect to the HAL on the RT box
[15:01:22] <SWPadnos> you can tell it not to, but then you lose some things like the currently selected axis and some others I don't remember
[15:01:33] <roh> hm. too bad
[15:01:43] <roh> but it doesnt sound like a unsolveable problem
[15:01:48] <SWPadnos> there was a network HAL component at some point (maybe just an experiment), and you could certainly do something with UDP to make that work
[15:02:17] <andypugh> linuxcncrsh is still there
[15:02:21] <SWPadnos> no, you can get the GUI running on a "remote" machine via SSH, remote X, RDP, or whatever you want
[15:02:36] <SWPadnos> yep, and linuxcncrsh - forgot about that one
[15:02:37] <L84Supper> isn't Peter working on new "over IP" fpga card?
[15:02:46] <roh> remote x11, rdp, vnc are all no solutions i would want to use or trust
[15:02:56] <andypugh> It exists. I am not sure if there is a linuxCNC driver yet.
[15:02:57] <SWPadnos> could be, but that's not HAL, it's whatever he's doing :)
[15:03:12] <L84Supper> UDP
[15:03:19] <SWPadnos> Mesa also has PCIe cards that can run through a cable
[15:03:39] <roh> SWPadnos: needs pci-e hosts again. whats wrong with parports?
[15:03:42] <SWPadnos> but that doesn't separate the RT PC from the UI PC, it only separates the FPGA hardware from the PC
[15:03:44] <L84Supper> ARM tablet with SDIO
[15:04:29] <SWPadnos> roh, that was a response to the "FPGA not inside or right next to the PC" question
[15:04:49] <roh> on the other hand.. wasnt there a 'replace fpga by using an avr' project?
[15:04:52] <roh> SWPadnos: ah. right
[15:04:54] <roh> sorry
[15:05:01] <SWPadnos> the parport solutions, even FPGA-based ones, don't perform as well as PCI or PCIe ones
[15:05:17] <SWPadnos> there is a PCI adapter card that you can connect to the PCIe remote FPGA, incidentally
[15:05:21] <roh> atleast for simple stepper/encoder solutions i would think a avr based extension board would surfice
[15:05:23] <SWPadnos> 6i67 or something
[15:05:36] <SWPadnos> or 6i7-something
[15:05:41] <L84Supper> https://0xfb.com/shop.html AVR cnc controller
[15:05:47] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9bKdIG_Yw << freakin at the freakers ball
[15:06:02] <roh> SWPadnos: so you would advice against a 7i43 for example?
[15:06:25] <roh> L84Supper: does it work with emc?
[15:06:34] <L84Supper> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard LPC1769 cortex m3 board
[15:06:45] <L84Supper> roh: no, too small
[15:06:48] <andypugh> 7i43 is a good solution for some things. I am happy with mine.
[15:06:54] <roh> L84Supper: i know loads of those reprap-style-poor-mans-gcode-player crap. not what i meant. proper cnc
[15:07:00] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't advise against anything, just pointing out that if you have 2 cards, with identical FPGAs, and one is PCI and the other parallell port, then the PCI one will likely have better performance
[15:07:01] <L84Supper> 512KB flash and only 64KB ram
[15:07:20] <roh> L84Supper: not run emc ON the avr. use the avr only instead a mesa board to extend.
[15:07:28] <roh> means clockgen, and encoder inputs.
[15:07:30] <L84Supper> roh: yeah, these are their next gen boards
[15:07:34] <SWPadnos> in terms of the fastest update rate you can get (since PCI lets you transfer many megabytes per second, but parallel port only some few hundred kbytes/sec)
[15:08:11] <roh> SWPadnos: i havent run into issues yet. our hardware is much too slow to need that high steprates atm. not sure about the laser yet tho
[15:08:53] <SWPadnos> step rate and communication/update rate aren't the same thing, that's why you use an FPGA :)
[15:09:00] <L84Supper> yeah, so it comes down to how much data you need to move around and how fast you need it for your application
[15:09:25] <SWPadnos> the 7i43 can do the same MHz (or close enough) step/PWM rates as the 5i2x
[15:09:35] <L84Supper> a large enough FPGA wouldn't need the PC host
[15:09:38] <roh> sure. but what do most people do (when they need cheap and simple stuff)? retrofit a small 3-axis cnc or a sub-2k$ lasercutter?
[15:10:40] <roh> i bet most of those applications do not even need a fpga to be happy, since the mechanics cannot handle feedrates high enough to get into issues.
[15:11:11] <roh> can i ask what kind of machines and maximum feedrates you usually use and see?
[15:11:26] <pfred1> I was all worried about how fast my stepper motors spun until I hooked one up to a lead screw
[15:11:41] <pfred1> then I was like I don't want a lead screw running 2,000 RPM!
[15:11:52] <roh> i am at 1000mm/min on the mill atm, but i guess we could move even faster (syil bf20 cnc with direct steppers)
[15:12:30] <SWPadnos> it's not the feedrate, it's the update rate
[15:12:44] <SWPadnos> a laser has a low mass "head", with zero machining force
[15:12:46] <roh> pfred1: exactly.. in the end its only producing more wear and not real saved time... atleast without toolchangers and quick-clamping mechanisms
[15:12:50] <L84Supper> our idea was to see if the manufacturers would even be interested in the flexibility that LinuxCNC offers over say a Fanuc or Siemens controller
[15:13:24] <roh> L84Supper: from my pov axis is better than most of those simply because its not 20keuro to get a 3d preview rendered ;)
[15:13:26] <L84Supper> the scary part to them so far is that nobody in CNC is familiar with LinuxCNC but everyone has heard of Fanuc
[15:13:37] <SWPadnos> it should be high acceleration, and if you want to do rastering (something which I don't think LinuxCNC is particularly suited for at the moment), then you may want to change the laser power very frequently, while also moving at high speed
[15:13:41] <pfred1> roh thing is there is an upper limit of sane speeds
[15:14:09] <roh> pfred1: ack. thats what i am asking. whats your limit setting?
[15:14:23] <SWPadnos> the resolution of the raster on a machine like that is feed rate / update rate
[15:14:25] <pfred1> I saw a video on youtube where a guy had a 2,000+ IPM machine and when he tried to rapid move it he knocked his limit switch right off
[15:14:59] <pfred1> it was pretty funny
[15:15:17] <L84Supper> also if the machining center is $100K with a Fanuc controller, will a buyer be interested in a LinuxCNC version for $95K?
[15:15:31] <pfred1> probably not
[15:15:40] <L84Supper> for custom machines there aren't many options
[15:16:49] <L84Supper> thats where maybe Comedi and Linuxcnc are attractive
[15:18:06] <roh> L84Supper: on expensive, still in service machines you would need to give gurantees like the vendor does
[15:18:08] <L84Supper> otherwise you're stuck with expensive M$ tools and industrial PC's
[15:19:09] <roh> but in the end i have the feeling that everybody who only has one machine will modify it sooner or later. maybe thats different if you run a hall full of those
[15:19:15] <roh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-4456.jpg is the mill
[15:19:31] <roh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-4457.jpg the lasercutter
[15:20:21] <L84Supper> roh; we are working on our own specialized CNC machines with LinuxCNC in China, we are trying to see if the same hardware and software will be of interest to the rest of the industry there
[15:20:42] <L84Supper> not sure yet :)
[15:20:58] <roh> L84Supper: nice to hear
[15:21:45] <roh> as you can see both of our machines are chinese.. then we also got some 3d printers whcih are german, dutch and i guess us in origin (shapercube, ultimaker and popfab)
[15:23:55] <roh> L84Supper: if you got any retrofit kits for chinese machines and want a serious test.. holler and send a board. i am sure i could provide proper traces/measurements/comments
[15:24:15] <L84Supper> roh: all FDM (FFF) filament types?
[15:24:25] <roh> i worked for a taiwanese company some time and still have some friends doing open hardware there and here
[15:24:45] <roh> L84Supper: the 3d printers? yes. all work with abs and or pla (depending on the head)
[15:24:57] <L84Supper> roh: we have a large CNC manufacturer nearby in Suzhou
[15:26:11] <L84Supper> roh; we are working on 3dp for manufacturing there, higher res and faster than FFF
[15:26:42] <roh> what concept? fluids? pulver?
[15:28:29] <roh> the nice thing about fdm is the availability and price of raw materials. basically you have running costs which are dirt cheap if you ignore the often needed service on the machines
[15:28:36] <L84Supper> fluids and also powder, some actually combine several types of deposition
[15:28:58] <roh> i havent seen the fluids and powders in that many colors and materials.. especially not for a nice price.
[15:29:15] <roh> >150E/litre isnt going to make people buy it ;)
[15:29:26] <L84Supper> yeah, the tech was sat on for the past 2 decades
[15:29:43] <roh> but i'd like to see that happen... a friend of mine even wants to become distributor for such machines.
[15:29:56] <L84Supper> photopolymers are under $40/L now, lower in volume
[15:30:11] <roh> how do you fixate? inkjet? uv light(dlp)? or laser?
[15:30:27] <L84Supper> now with the patents expiring there's going to be some growth
[15:30:37] <L84Supper> all the above
[15:31:16] <roh> nice.. if you got something to sell or test.. holler or fire us an email
[15:31:28] <L84Supper> new fluids and materials is one of the big new areas, the older printers would lock you out from using your own materials, much like an inkjet printer
[15:31:58] <roh> exactly. thats why makerbot sells more than dimension printing in that market
[15:32:32] <L84Supper> the same will be true for other additive manufacturing printers
[15:32:38] <roh> even when their machines are less reliable and precise
[15:33:04] <L84Supper> the pro photoplymer printers don't even work well
[15:33:21] <L84Supper> lots of lawsuits over promises never met
[15:33:22] <roh> huh? so all the videos are fake?
[15:33:26] <roh> *g*
[15:33:44] <L84Supper> they work, just not as well as promoted
[15:33:59] <L84Supper> SLA has been around since the 80's
[15:34:18] <roh> true. what hinders the industry to just do it?
[15:34:45] <roh> i mean.. even a 40W co2 laser tube and psu doesnt cost more than 300-400E anymore
[15:34:49] <L84Supper> the previous patent holders and the CEO's of the companies
[15:34:59] <roh> how complicated can it be to melt something selectively?
[15:35:03] <L84Supper> just like inkjet
[15:35:20] <roh> ignore patents. build in china
[15:35:45] <L84Supper> the HP thermal patents are expiring, that's another reason why Lexmark is selling off the division
[15:36:20] <roh> so thats the 'bubblejet'-patent then?
[15:36:31] <L84Supper> inkjet is another industry held back by the big players controlling the industry
[15:36:57] <L84Supper> yes, the thermal inkjets
[15:37:24] <roh> sure. but that industry has proven that reliable mechanics for cnc machines are possible for consumer electronics
[15:37:29] <roh> which is nice.
[15:37:51] <L84Supper> $5/L ink for $3500/L in 35mL plastic cartridges
[15:38:13] <pfred1> inkjet sucks
[15:38:27] <roh> if they wanted they could sell a every-living-room-fdm machine at hp... but they dont seem to want to. instead they got that boring 3d designjet, which is big as an industrial oven
[15:38:50] <L84Supper> or 35mL but it starts to drop nozzles after 15ml since they count drops vs actually check the level
[15:39:00] <roh> pfred1: ack. we just got ourselves a lexmark laser printer for the hackspace. works. speaks ethernet. doesnt need service besides adding more paper
[15:39:14] <pfred1> laser is way better
[15:39:24] <roh> actually paper and power is more expensive than toner when you buy a sane machine
[15:40:14] <L84Supper> the laser printer industry has also helped dropped the costs of making SLA printers
[15:40:40] <L84Supper> all those great optics for cheap
[15:40:40] <roh> how much thermal power in which wavelength does sla really need?
[15:40:54] <roh> i mean.. could one use a properly retrofit lasercutter?
[15:41:02] <L84Supper> sure
[15:41:18] <roh> or maybe even diode lasers are powerful enough (and much smaller)
[15:41:37] <L84Supper> blue ray lasers are ~$5
[15:41:40] <roh> and i guess safer to handle.. most people have no clue how dangerous 20-30kV dc are
[15:42:06] <roh> <- certified tv mechanic ;)
[15:42:44] <roh> L84Supper: do you know anybody working on laser psu by accident?
[15:42:53] <L84Supper> I still have a scar on both sides of my forearm from the arc through my arm
[15:43:03] <roh> ouch.
[15:43:13] <L84Supper> wet arm got between flyback and chasis
[15:43:27] <L84Supper> learned that lesson :)
[15:43:36] <roh> i added extra insulation after ive seen how our machine was delivered
[15:44:04] <L84Supper> roh: what voltage and current are you looking for?
[15:44:23] <roh> also i can acknowlege the myth that one smells a co2 laser beam into a finger before you feel it
[15:44:44] <roh> smells like burning meat (aka 'if it smells like chicken...')
[15:45:28] <roh> L84Supper: dunno. from what i can measure mechanically (no hv measurement gear) and specs i guess our psu does 15-22kV and around 15-20mA
[15:45:49] <L84Supper> http://usabledevices.com/2012/11/03/first-shanghai-maker-carnival/
[15:46:06] <roh> i havent found any psu which looks similar to the one we have. but ive reverse engineered the schematic and think i know how it works.
[15:46:09] <L84Supper> http://i.youku.com/spanner888
[15:47:55] <roh> its basically 2 boards mounted on a epoxy isolator. one with a tl494 based, 2 mosfet driver smpsu, one with 2 diode split transformers in series for making HV out of hf-ac
[15:48:06] <L84Supper> http://laser-cn.en.made-in-china.com/product-group/HqCmVYSbbnWg/Laser-Power-Supply-catalog-1.html
[15:48:11] <roh> but it doesnt have a pwm in. just ttl
[15:48:52] <roh> yeah. i know those. ours doesnt have its own casing. any idea whats inside? (pictures, schematics?)
[15:49:25] <roh> i'd love to add pwm input and or frequency input like the 'better' machines do (epilog etc)
[15:49:32] <L84Supper> very similar to the old CRT HV flyback circuits
[15:50:05] <roh> true. but it seems they limit the amount of energy per half-wave by doing ac coupling. very weird
[15:50:21] <L84Supper> what you probably need ar sources for flyback transformers and HV tipplers and diodes
[15:51:45] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/high-voltage_driver-board.pdf
[15:51:49] <L84Supper> there used to be more suppliers, the same parts are also found in high power RF
[15:51:52] <roh> thats the schematic i drew
[15:52:17] <L84Supper> I'll BBL
[16:03:57] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[17:19:23] <spamftw> Anyone have any experience with the probekins module? All the information on the wiki seems to start after you've mapped the bed
[17:20:01] <spamftw> I'd like to use a sensor to map the bed programatically (by jogging z, in a grid) but cannot see any info on that part of the process
[17:22:18] <tjb1> Evening #linuxcnc
[17:24:39] <pfred1> its all your fault
[17:25:21] <tjb1> its your fault!
[17:28:13] <pfred1> yeah it probably is but I like to lay blame
[17:28:43] <pfred1> I was making such good progress on my machine but I haven't worked on it in 2 days now
[17:29:19] <pfred1> I blame hurricane Sandy!
[17:32:09] <Tom_itx> claim a loss
[17:33:00] <pfred1> get me some Obamabucks!
[17:33:01] <tjb1> I worked on mine today some
[17:33:28] <pfred1> paulie needs a new pair of stepper motor drivers ...
[17:33:49] <pfred1> I cleaned my yard up some more
[17:33:52] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/69147_4550007544223_756397905_n.jpg
[17:33:54] <tjb1> :)
[17:33:58] <tjb1> That thing is heavy!
[17:34:32] <pcw_home> Damn just let the dog out and he spooked a little deer.
[17:34:34] <pcw_home> It promptly jumped strait into the fence a broke its neck
[17:34:35] <pfred1> wow it takes up your whole garage
[17:35:01] <tjb1> That actually half the garage
[17:35:17] <tjb1> Thats good eatin pcw_home
[17:35:28] <pcw_home> if I ate meat
[17:35:33] <pfred1> I don't like venison
[17:36:11] <pfred1> although if things ever get bad I guess I'll start eating them
[17:36:49] <pfred1> once here during rutting season I saw a field around the corner from me and it was packed with deer shoulder to shoulder acres of them!
[17:37:59] <pcw_home> They seem to be able to jump our fence to get in but never get out unless I open the gate
[17:38:19] <pfred1> deer usually slink under split rail fences
[17:38:26] <pfred1> it is kind of funny to watch them
[17:38:46] <pfred1> I mean you'd think they'd jump it but they kind of forward limbo under them
[17:40:10] <pfred1> tjb1 you look pretty far along with your build what do you have left to do?
[17:51:23] <tjb1> finish water table and add thcud that JT made
[17:53:17] <pfred1> oh that is a plasma cutter?
[17:56:04] <Kirk_Wallace> It looks like LinuxCNC can be installed on Lenny: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI
[17:56:18] <Kirk_Wallace> I assume Squeeze should be similar?
[17:58:23] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace I have LinuxCNC running on Lenny here
[17:58:45] <pfred1> well i think what I'm running is actually EMC2
[17:58:54] <pfred1> it is that old
[18:00:13] <Kirk_Wallace> I want to try LCNC with this kiosk setup: http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/11/05/creating-a-kiosk-with-linux-and-x11-2011-edition/
[18:00:19] <pfred1> as far as I can tell there is no actual performance advantage to installing LinuxCNC on Debian over Ubuntu
[18:00:38] <pfred1> I didn't get any higher latency score or anything
[18:00:59] <mutilator> i dont see why you would
[18:01:05] <tjb1> yes pfred1
[18:01:09] <mutilator> ubuntu is just debian packaed with more crap
[18:01:41] <pfred1> well that system boots up faster
[18:02:16] <pfred1> I improved the stock boot by 20%
[18:04:17] <Kirk_Wallace> The kiosk system has minimal software installed so there is less software to lock out. Boot, auto login, auto start CNC app, run, exit CNC, auto power off.
[18:05:56] <roh> hm.. boottimes never were an issue for us.. we let the machines warm up for 5min anyhow
[18:09:30] <pfred1> I've seen Windows systems that took about that long to boot
[18:09:55] <pfred1> but in the case of Linux 20% is only 5 seconds
[18:10:25] <Kirk_Wallace> Boot times are not my biggest issue. The look and feel of an industrial controller is the goal. I can get the standard LinuxCNC to do the automated bits, but the desktop keeps popping up here and there and there are too many places to wander.
[18:12:15] <pfred1> so change the window manager
[18:12:25] <pfred1> you don't need to change a whole distribution to do that
[18:12:46] <pfred1> apt-get install fluxbox
[18:13:03] <pfred1> doesn't get much more industrial looking than that
[18:16:03] <Kirk_Wallace> That may be the way to go. Take the standard install and unplug the window manager, but I don't know enough at the moment to decide. I've tried the kiosk example, short of RTAI and LinuxCNC, and so far I can follow the logic.
[18:18:29] <Kirk_Wallace> Also, a convenient Debian install would be nice to have. Ubuntu is beginning to feel a little fluffy.
[18:18:49] <pfred1> changing the window manager would go a long way towards declawing it
[18:22:51] <toastydeath> you're going to have to make an ncurses interface if you want that real industrial feel
[18:23:28] <Kirk_Wallace> Declawing the standard install looks daunting. ps -e shows a lot of Xorg and gdm'y things going on. With the kiosk example, there is only gdm and matchbox showing up in the task list.
[18:27:16] <Kirk_Wallace> Ncurses would not be so bad in my opinion.
[18:27:52] <toastydeath> ncurses would be amazing
[18:30:00] <Kirk_Wallace> So far, do Squeeze/kiosk/foreign LinuxCNC install, or gut the standard install and try to stamp out all the bugs that pop up?
[18:33:27] <Kirk_Wallace> Gotta go.
[19:08:04] <skorket> hey, I know this is not linuxcnc specific, but maybe you guys won't mind me asking anyway. I have a zen toolworks 7x7" kit and I notice that it's a bit 'squeaky' in places. Do you guys have recommendations on how to fix that? Oil? If so, what type?
[19:09:11] <jdh> what is squeaking?
[19:09:38] <skorket> When it passes in certain places. It's a lead screw system with anti-backlash nuts on two linear rails (two rails + leadscrew per axis)
[19:10:00] <skorket> I assume it's the lead screw and the anti backlash nut at certain points in its path...
[19:10:42] <jdh> I spray balscrew lube on my acme screws
[19:11:01] <cradek> is the leadscrew smooth? some acmes are pretty rough when new.
[19:11:32] <skorket> jdh, link?
[19:11:34] <cradek> I've put my 1/4-16 acme rod in the drill and cleaned it up with steel wool
[19:11:43] <skorket> cradek, it's started happening recently. I've had it for a couple of months
[19:11:47] <cradek> ... on a setup like you're describing with plastic nuts
[19:11:51] <cradek> oh, hmm
[19:11:58] <skorket> they're metal...
[19:12:02] <jdh> just a spray can of nook ball screw lube
[19:12:06] <toastydeath> disconnect the leadscrew and make sure it's the screw and not the ways
[19:12:17] <roh> we use thick yellowish grease on the ballscrews and slides
[19:12:20] <toastydeath> if it's the screw for sure, use heavier lube
[19:12:21] <jdh> could be squeakingdue to binding
[19:12:26] <cradek> oh it's metal on metal? you sure need lube then
[19:12:39] <skorket> jdh, e-100, e-900?
[19:12:45] <Valen> we have an oiler well sorta ;->
[19:12:58] <Valen> syringe with aquarium hosing leading to the nuts
[19:13:10] <toastydeath> if heavier lube doesn't work, clean the screw off in alcohol and put some lapping compound on the thing
[19:13:18] <jdh> 900 but just because I already had it
[19:13:20] <Valen> wood screw crushing the hose sets the rate
[19:13:21] <toastydeath> run the nut back and forth with as even pressure as oyu can manage
[19:13:25] <jdh> it's really light
[19:13:34] <toastydeath> push one way, then the other
[19:13:40] <toastydeath> so both faces of the thing get lapped.
[19:15:46] <skorket> any preferred place to purchase?
[19:16:08] <jdh> I got two cans with a used lathe I bought
[19:16:50] <cradek> out of pure laziness I put way lube on the acme screws as well as the ways
[19:17:06] <cradek> it seems fine
[19:17:12] <toastydeath> that's what every big machine does
[19:17:18] <cradek> nuts also 'slide' I guess
[19:17:39] <cradek> toastydeath: that's a good point
[19:18:04] <roh> hm? metal on metal? what else?
[19:18:25] <roh> i mean.. on ballscrews and slides
[19:18:32] <cradek> when he said anti-backlash for a small machine I assumed delrin or some other plastic
[19:18:55] <roh> aah.. so no ballscrew but trapezoid ones?
[19:18:56] <cradek> it's not ballscrews
[19:18:58] <toastydeath> oh, if it's plastic do not use lapping compound
[19:19:22] <jdh> or you could lap forever
[19:19:33] <cradek> s/could/will/
[19:19:47] <cradek> he said it's metal, fwiw
[19:19:50] <toastydeath> the leadscrew will be mirror smooth
[19:19:57] <toastydeath> metal, awesome
[19:20:13] <toastydeath> lapping leadscrews also cuts down on cyclic error, but nobody gives a shit about that on smaller machines
[19:20:18] <skorket> how does a hobbyist like me get their hands on this lubricant?
[19:20:24] <toastydeath> waylube?
[19:20:29] <toastydeath> Vactra #2
[19:20:44] <jdh> skorket: pretty much anything woudl probably work.
[19:20:45] <toastydeath> http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/45214-105480-mobil-no-2-way-vactra-2-machine-oils.html
[19:21:15] <cradek> buy a gallon of vactra2 and never worry again
[19:21:21] <skorket> jdh, I'm really new to this whole thing and I don't even know what I'm looking for. What do the different numbers mean? What should I be looking for?
[19:21:35] <toastydeath> vactra 2 is what you are looking for
[19:21:53] <toastydeath> do not buy vactra 1, do not buy vactra 3. if you use another brand, it will legit say "Vactra 2 equivalent"
[19:22:15] <skorket> toastydeath, why vactra 2 specifically?
[19:22:28] <toastydeath> it's for small machines that do not move very fast
[19:22:33] <cradek> it's venerable
[19:22:49] <skorket> whats the quality in the oil that makes it ideal for small machines that do not move very fast?
[19:23:03] <toastydeath> viscosity
[19:23:03] <cradek> (but if you have metering nozzles it may as well be glue, use a synthetic)
[19:23:27] <toastydeath> vactra 1 is for high speed machines; 1000 inches/min and faster
[19:23:57] <toastydeath> it's less viscous, so it doesn't cavitate or get uneven at high speed
[19:24:08] <toastydeath> but it also has the chance to ground out more often under high load
[19:25:04] <toastydeath> vactra 3 is much much more viscous than vacra 2 and is for machines that are quite large
[19:25:13] <jdh> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=505-1987&PMPXNO=945479
[19:25:25] <toastydeath> it can still handle a fair amount of movement, but the float height is greater
[19:26:34] <Valen> chainsaw bar oil is usable for way lube
[19:27:03] <jdh> last time I used a chain saw, I put in SAE30 for bar oil.
[19:29:23] <r00t4rd3d> bet that stuck well
[19:29:31] <jdh> seemed to work fine.
[19:29:53] <pfred1> Valen bar lube FTW!
[19:30:12] <toastydeath> most oils work just fine
[19:30:23] <pfred1> well don't use motor oil
[19:30:36] <pfred1> here the stuff is a water magnet
[19:31:08] <jdh> if you have some super precision 25krpm spindle bearings, I might worry about what touse.
[19:31:33] <pfred1> well as long as the motor oil isn't detergent it should be OK
[19:31:57] <skorket> ok, thanks all. Do you think your standard store will carry vectra 2 equivalent oil?
[19:32:08] <pfred1> no
[19:32:12] <skorket> use-enco wants to charge me $10 in shipping...
[19:34:16] <cradek> $10 to ship a gallon of something seems fair
[19:34:23] <cradek> where are you?
[19:34:25] <jdh> weighs 8lbs?
[19:34:43] <cradek> hey it's even on sale!
[19:37:31] <KimK> Wow, I must not get out enough, I've only run across Vactra 2 and Vactra 4. I guess it makes sense that there'd be a 1 and a 3 in there, though.
[19:37:52] <Valen> lol
[19:38:08] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221148400712
[19:38:51] <skorket> ok, I just ordered it. Thanks guys, I appreciate it
[19:39:28] <jdh> not sure that is optimal for lead screws though :)
[19:39:37] <skorket> I'll give it a shot
[19:48:37] <Aero-Tec> Lathe Tool Orientation
[19:48:54] <Aero-Tec> can someone explain this better then the manual?
[19:49:10] <cradek> can you ask a more specific question?
[19:49:23] <Aero-Tec> how dos this effect anything?
[19:49:33] <Aero-Tec> what does it do?
[19:50:12] <Aero-Tec> I am at a loss as to what posable good this can have
[19:50:12] <cradek> it lets cutter compensation compensate for the shape of the tool
[19:50:27] <cradek> it's important when a part contour involves a taper, for instance
[19:50:47] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:51:11] <Aero-Tec> but some of the numbers seam funny
[19:51:17] <Aero-Tec> like 9
[19:51:27] <Aero-Tec> dead center of the tool post
[19:51:38] <Aero-Tec> what kind of tool is that?
[19:52:14] <cradek> a lathe with live tooling might use that - think of something like an end mill
[19:52:27] <Aero-Tec> lol
[19:52:28] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:52:43] <cradek> you don't have to use it if you don't need it :-)
[19:53:06] <Aero-Tec> I have a quick change on my lathe so I would not use that
[19:53:32] <Aero-Tec> 2 looks to be the most used number I would guess
[19:53:56] <cradek> yes I bet you're right
[19:54:25] <cradek> that's for normal turning and facing
[19:54:47] <Aero-Tec> the orientation would be chuck on left, tail stock on right as yu stand in front of lathe
[19:55:05] <Aero-Tec> yes ok so I was right on how to look at it
[19:55:07] <cradek> yes that makes Z to your right
[19:55:26] <Aero-Tec> Z+
[19:55:33] <cradek> yes
[19:55:36] <Aero-Tec> z runs right and left
[19:55:56] <Aero-Tec> cool
[19:55:58] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[19:56:06] <Aero-Tec> BTW
[19:56:20] <Aero-Tec> I have code for printing out mach tool table
[19:56:55] <Aero-Tec> so for the guys wanting to move from mach and take their tool table with them I have the code for both lathe and mill
[19:57:28] <Aero-Tec> just in case anyone else is in the same boat I am in
[19:58:30] <Aero-Tec> one other thing, did the tool table for lathe change for EMC?
[19:59:04] <Aero-Tec> the docs say one thing but the tool table seams to be a different format
[19:59:07] <cradek> change from what?
[19:59:19] <cradek> maybe you have old docs? the tool table has changed a few times.
[19:59:27] <Aero-Tec> from what the docs said about the lathe tool table
[19:59:33] <Aero-Tec> ok
[19:59:35] <cradek> now it has letters: T1 P1 X1.23 Z2.34 etc.
[19:59:36] <Aero-Tec> that could be
[20:00:38] <Aero-Tec> is the tool table different for each profile?
[20:00:52] <Aero-Tec> also where do I find the tool table for EMC?
[20:01:20] <Aero-Tec> in the mill I have not used a tool table, but in the lathe I have to
[20:01:31] <Aero-Tec> so not sure about some things
[20:02:17] <Aero-Tec> slao is there anything a noob to EMC need to look out for?
[20:02:31] <Aero-Tec> things that can bite one in the butt?
[20:02:44] <jdh> typos suck
[20:02:54] <cradek> haha that's way too general a question :-)
[20:03:09] <Aero-Tec> switching over from mach, it is a steep learning curve
[20:03:29] <pfred1> LinuxCNC tries not to be Mach
[20:03:49] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:03:55] <Aero-Tec> good thing
[20:04:08] <pfred1> they came from the same code base originally though
[20:04:12] <Aero-Tec> Mach has not been nice to me at all
[20:04:30] <Aero-Tec> your joking?
[20:04:51] <pfred1> they're both derived from the original NIST EMC code afaik
[20:04:57] <cradek> mach took emc1's interpreter many many years ago
[20:05:08] <Aero-Tec> BTW I am dyslexic, sorry for the wild spelling
[20:05:23] <pfred1> this is IRC spelling rules don't apply here
[20:05:37] <cradek> they have diverged a lot, of course.
[20:05:46] <Aero-Tec> thanks god
[20:05:51] <pfred1> cradek ya think?
[20:06:01] <Aero-Tec> I see hugh machines running EMC
[20:06:08] <pfred1> no they are totally separate projects with different goals
[20:06:12] <Aero-Tec> only toys running mach
[20:06:34] <pfred1> mach targets the low end hobbyist
[20:06:46] <Aero-Tec> I have had mach go nuts on me more times then I can count
[20:07:16] <Aero-Tec> mid production run, running the same code over and over
[20:07:40] <cradek> seems like it's famous mostly for that and the incorrect threads it cuts
[20:08:04] <Aero-Tec> then all of a sudden it take off full speed right through the part, vise, bed or what ever is in the way
[20:08:08] <pfred1> likely none of the mach developers have access to a lathe
[20:08:21] <Aero-Tec> that was the mill
[20:08:26] <cradek> hah
[20:08:38] <Aero-Tec> my lathe is got its own problems
[20:09:02] <Aero-Tec> switching over 100% to EMC
[20:09:15] <pfred1> LinuxCNC seems to err on the side of caution on all issues to me
[20:10:25] <Aero-Tec> I was trying to run mach for code I had done in mach and any new stuff in EMC, but that fell through, now I am going 100% with EMC
[20:10:55] <pfred1> I don't think the G Code is 100% compatible between the two
[20:11:14] <Aero-Tec> also mach mill and mach lathe will freeze the computer at times
[20:11:26] <Aero-Tec> some times in mid run
[20:11:38] <Aero-Tec> no it is not
[20:11:44] <pfred1> I've read a little how Mach preempts Windows and it all sounds pretty flaky to me
[20:11:54] <Aero-Tec> that is why I have to rewrite all my Gcode
[20:12:32] <Aero-Tec> I love tons of things about EMC
[20:12:42] <pfred1> I've run some Windows and I've run a lot of Linux and well I haven't seen Linux do much it wasn't supposed to
[20:12:51] <Aero-Tec> just wish the GUI was nicer and more friendly
[20:13:14] <pfred1> well in X Window you can change your GUI
[20:13:18] <cradek> Aero-Tec: them's fightin' words
[20:13:33] <pfred1> there are dozens of window managers and a couple desktop environments to choose from
[20:13:54] <Aero-Tec> where do I find out more about them?
[20:14:15] <pfred1> http://xwinman.org/
[20:14:17] <Aero-Tec> I am not trying to pick a fight
[20:14:21] <Aero-Tec> far from it
[20:14:49] <pfred1> yeah what window manager anyone likes is perfonal preference
[20:14:56] <pfred1> personal even
[20:15:21] <pfred1> right now I'm running a really oddball one but I don't like a lot of the mainstream ones today
[20:15:38] <pfred1> people say Gnome is going down the drain
[20:15:55] <pfred1> and I'm not too keen on the latest KDE either
[20:16:04] <Aero-Tec> I was talking the gui for EMC
[20:16:12] <pfred1> ih yo ucan change those too
[20:16:19] <Aero-Tec> I like the linux one I have
[20:16:20] <pfred1> the front end
[20:16:37] <pfred1> axis is the popular one
[20:16:55] <pfred1> but there is a TK one and a text one
[20:16:57] <Aero-Tec> some, but not any where near where the GUI is for mach
[20:17:18] <pfred1> cradek didn't you write axis?
[20:17:43] <Aero-Tec> I am using axis I believe
[20:17:53] <pfred1> yeah axis is the default today
[20:18:04] <pfred1> but the older ones are still kicking around
[20:18:23] <pfred1> I can't use axis because something is going on with my GL libraries
[20:18:55] <Aero-Tec> one of the cool things about mach is you can change just about anything in the GUI
[20:19:13] <pfred1> you can change anything in LinuxCNC too
[20:19:23] <Aero-Tec> you can make as many custom screens as you want
[20:19:27] <pfred1> but you have to know how to code in order to do it
[20:19:41] <Aero-Tec> I can code some
[20:19:57] <Aero-Tec> how hard is it to make a cusome EMC GUI?
[20:19:59] <cradek> one of the cool things about linuxcnc is you can fix or change anything, including fixing bugs. the other cool thing is you don't have to, because it actually works right
[20:20:15] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:20:19] <Aero-Tec> I like that part
[20:20:20] <pfred1> cradek well, that and we have you :)
[20:20:22] <cradek> Aero-Tec: just use it
[20:20:35] <Aero-Tec> yes sir
[20:20:35] <cradek> Aero-Tec: worry about guis later, after you know how to use it
[20:20:37] <Aero-Tec> lol
[20:20:38] <cradek> :-)
[20:20:47] <pfred1> andypugh is like a wizard at adding the add ons
[20:21:30] <Aero-Tec> back to work writing a new tool table for EMC for my lathe
[20:21:41] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the help
[20:21:43] <pfred1> Aero-Tec the thing is there is no limit to how far you can take LinuxCNC
[20:22:05] <Aero-Tec> that is one very cool thing about EMC
[20:22:30] <pfred1> I saw a guy control a washer tied to 3 strings with LinuxCNC
[20:22:32] <Aero-Tec> so customizable for hard ware and how it works
[20:22:58] <pfred1> man he could make that washer move any which way
[20:23:26] <Aero-Tec> any video?
[20:23:28] <pfred1> it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen but it was cool
[20:23:40] <pfred1> yeah it is on youtube
[20:23:57] <pfred1> I see if i can find it
[20:24:14] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80YhX73DuSg
[20:25:28] <pfred1> that isn't it
[20:25:46] <cradek> yes, but it's better
[20:26:31] <pfred1> nah the guy who wrapped the strongs on the stepper motor shafts then had them tied to a washer is hilarious
[20:26:38] <pfred1> nah the guy who wrapped the strings on the stepper motor shafts then had them tied to a washer is hilarious
[20:26:51] <cradek> yeah, it's the same idea, but not so funny/silly
[20:27:27] <pfred1> LinuxCNC runs hexabots too doesn't it?
[20:27:36] <cradek> sure
[20:27:40] <pfred1> those are always pretty funny
[20:28:17] <pfred1> I vaguely remember seeing a big blue one
[20:28:36] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAPTdw_BTF0
[20:28:41] <cradek> here is a two-DOF version
[20:29:00] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Videos#Robots_and_other_special_kinematics_machines
[20:29:14] <cradek> I think you're thinking of alex's tripod which is listed here, and the links are dead
[20:29:33] <pfred1> this might be funnier than the washer
[20:29:41] <cradek> there are some awesome hexapods listed here
[20:30:15] <pfred1> yeah I'd like to see mach try to run this thing
[20:30:51] * skunkworks_ wants to build a hexapod some day
[20:31:04] <KimK> This is off-topic but do you guys have any advice or suggestions for me on WRT54G's and DD-WRT vs. Tomato vs. OpenWrt ? (I'm searching now, was wondering if anyone had personal experiences to relate?)
[20:31:21] <pfred1> skunkworks_ ever see the one that can walk around and carves a face in styrofoam?
[20:31:39] <skunkworks_> I don't consider that a hexapod
[20:31:46] <pfred1> it was made by the same guy that made the props for that horror movie gene simmons was in
[20:32:05] <pfred1> yeah it doesn't run EMC I don't think it is still pretty neat though
[20:32:06] <cradek> KimK: check your hardware revision to see how much ram and rom you have, then decide
[20:32:27] <cradek> KimK: they vary a lot, from nice (some of the GS) to unusable
[21:23:41] <r00t_droid> :D
[23:15:20] <Tecan> hmmm who still up ?