#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-11-02

[00:30:55] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.variabletech.com/products/
[00:40:31] <toner> lol: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318847_493810740639942_1936014597_n.jpg
[00:41:47] <Aero-Tec> great drawing
[00:42:01] <Aero-Tec> pretty much says it all
[00:42:41] <Aero-Tec> would be harder to have a better graphic of the ohms law
[00:43:09] <Aero-Tec> hard
[00:59:24] <Jymmm> Cover the one you want:
[00:59:25] <Jymmm> E
[00:59:25] <Jymmm> -----
[00:59:26] <Jymmm> I * R
[01:01:47] <Aero-Tec> I am aware of that one, it is great for a tec that uses the law
[01:02:27] <Aero-Tec> put the pix is a layman's way of understanding how it works
[01:02:44] <Jymmm> amps get it in the ass?
[01:03:20] <Aero-Tec> helps someone who knows nothing learn a little
[01:03:24] <Aero-Tec> yes
[01:03:35] <Aero-Tec> volts pushes amps
[01:03:45] <Aero-Tec> or kick it down the wire
[01:03:56] <Jymmm> I'd say no. plumbing would be a better analogy
[01:04:12] <Aero-Tec> resistance hold thing back, slows things down
[01:04:17] <Jymmm> volume, pressure, valve.
[01:04:39] <Jymmm> but that pics dont say what amps are
[01:04:48] <Jymmm> pc
[01:04:54] <Aero-Tec> and heat is generated by the amps working to get down the wire
[01:05:13] <Jymmm> but heat would be Watts, not amps
[01:05:55] <Aero-Tec> I would agree that plumbing is better, if you know anything about plumbing
[01:06:16] <Jymmm> youdont have to. a cup and a straw can demo it
[01:06:28] <Aero-Tec> but not every one understands plumbing and the finer points that make it work
[01:06:52] <Jymmm> yes they can, it's somethign they can see/feel
[01:07:05] <Aero-Tec> amps gen heat
[01:07:19] <Jymmm> watts == power == heat
[01:07:32] <Aero-Tec> the pix shows amps working hard against resistance
[01:08:29] <Aero-Tec> I just said it was a good pix for the guy that is not going to use it to design something, just a quick and funny way to teach someone the basics
[01:08:44] <Aero-Tec> and for that it is very good
[01:09:03] <Jymmm> imnsho, I disagree. It's missing watts/power.
[01:09:57] <Aero-Tec> not really amps is sweating and giving off heat
[01:10:11] <Aero-Tec> working hard
[01:10:23] <Aero-Tec> you over heat and sweat when working hard
[01:10:48] <Aero-Tec> a average guy can relate
[01:11:10] <Aero-Tec> it is not a tec manual
[01:11:29] <Aero-Tec> it is not something you would use for engineering
[01:12:09] <Aero-Tec> but for the average joe, it is funny, entertaining and informative
[01:12:40] <Aero-Tec> joe will learn something even if he is not realy wanting to
[01:13:02] <Aero-Tec> I thought it was brilliant
[01:27:42] <Aero-Tec> any one here good with emc running a lathe?
[01:27:55] <Aero-Tec> will need some help with the tool table
[01:28:08] <Aero-Tec> few things I am unsure of
[03:03:30] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:33:17] <alex_joni> whee.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LJ9iRy06_30
[06:36:30] <jthornton> I bet that left a divot
[07:00:30] <alex_joni> jthornton: it came down over some houses
[07:01:04] <jthornton> was it supposed to fall straight down?
[07:01:55] <alex_joni> yup
[08:06:29] <r00t4rd3d> during the winter, how cold should I let my controller and stuff get?
[08:08:00] <jdh> I'd suggest livign someplace that doesn't get below 35F
[08:08:47] <r00t4rd3d> its 37 out now
[08:10:28] <archivist> hard disks do not like cold
[08:10:58] <r00t4rd3d> I have a kerosene heater in my shed but no 24/7 heat
[08:11:32] <r00t4rd3d> Not sure when I should start bringing my electronics inside
[08:12:53] <jdh> leave it running
[08:13:40] <r00t4rd3d> for 4 months?
[08:14:09] <r00t4rd3d> thats not really a feasible idea.
[08:14:13] <jdh> my computers run all the time. I turn off my drives.
[08:14:38] <r00t4rd3d> mine do to inside
[08:15:04] <jdh> mine are in the garage. It freezes in the winter :(
[08:16:41] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5j619mdesM&feature=etp-pd-nxx-60
[12:03:10] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[12:38:22] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[13:20:03] <IchGuckLive> hi folks if my encoder is fiering all the time at 3 outputs is it broken
[13:20:12] <IchGuckLive> i got signals at A B Z
[13:20:39] <IchGuckLive> or are there encoder types with 3 signals per pulse
[13:21:07] <IchGuckLive> the datasheet gives me a index per Rev
[13:24:07] <PCW> index should normally only happen once per rev buta mis-connect or low power might cause strange behavior
[13:27:08] <IchGuckLive> let me get a meter to see the volts
[13:28:51] <IchGuckLive> no 5.07V
[13:29:18] <archivist> check for shorts between leads
[13:29:18] <PCW> differential or TTL outputs?
[13:30:22] <PCW> shorts or choosing wrong pairs on differential encoders can do this
[13:30:31] <andypugh> Especially those plaid shorts with belts that only Americans wear. Getting those in your encoder could cause all sortd of trouble.
[13:30:52] <tjb1> Is internet required to install the parallel port as shown in this thread? http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/18917-faq-pci-parallel-port-cards
[13:31:31] <andypugh> No.
[13:31:53] <PCW> too cold for shorts
[13:32:53] <IchGuckLive> shorts can be messure by meter between the lines
[13:33:02] <skunkworks> WI residents wear shorts when it gets above 45Deg F
[13:34:42] <archivist> never wear shorts and t shirts near a lave or milling machine throwing hot sharp chips
[13:34:50] <archivist> lathe
[13:35:14] <archivist> never try to type with cold fingers either
[13:35:24] <IchGuckLive> i found a signal short in my meter between the A and B
[13:35:42] <andypugh> Never braze together three bicycle frames to make a trandem using a carbon-arc brazing torch while wearing a T-shirt...
[13:36:55] <archivist> did you get a tan
[13:38:20] <sliptonic> PCW: I have a Huanyang VFD I'd like to control from my 5i25/7i77. Do you know of a configuration I can reference so I don't have to start from scratch?
[13:38:49] <andypugh> I got a red, then a moult
[13:39:31] <PCW> HAL configuration?
[13:39:57] <IchGuckLive> sliptonic: i got one on the 7i76
[13:40:05] <sliptonic> Yes. HAL config.
[13:40:16] <andypugh> 7i76 + VFD is trivial though?
[13:40:35] <PCW> Not off hand, are you using a pncconf created hal file?
[13:40:52] <sliptonic> Yes.
[13:41:34] <PCW> doesnt pncconf have boilerplate for spindle control?
[13:42:15] <sliptonic> Hmm. Maybe so. I'll run through it again. Perhaps I just brain farted.
[13:42:38] <PCW> the basic idea on the 7I77 is that you use analog channel 5 for spindle control (since it has an independent enable)
[13:44:26] <sliptonic> Thanks. I'll be back as soon as I get confused :-)
[13:44:55] <Jymmm> 29...28...27...
[13:51:20] <IchGuckLive> PCW QUADRUPLE DIFFERENTIAL LINE DRIVERS coudt this be broken
[13:51:26] <IchGuckLive> 26c31
[13:52:20] <sliptonic> Hurtful Jymmm. Hurtful. :-)
[13:52:57] <Jymmm> sliptonic: "I have no idea what you are speaking of... I KNOW NUT-TING!"
[13:53:22] <Jymmm> ;)
[13:53:35] <PCW> Well it could be, one easy way to check is that the A, /A B,/B and Z,/Z are always logical inversions of each other
[13:54:42] <PCW> if you have a dead short between two pins, I would suspect wiring errors
[13:58:02] <PCW> that is if you put your voltmeter between A and /A you should get between 3V and 5V or -3 and -5V depending on encoder position
[13:58:03] <PCW> (and same for B, /B and Z, /Z though Z it trickier to check since its just one or a couple of counts wide)
[13:58:45] <IchGuckLive> ok
[13:59:18] <IchGuckLive> but there is a short between encoder not enable and B/ A
[13:59:41] <PCW> those bi-polar red/green LEDS are handy for testing differential encoders
[13:59:45] <IchGuckLive> the other pins give me no signa
[13:59:59] <PCW> pinout wrong?
[14:00:34] <IchGuckLive> im on a open encoder
[14:00:41] <IchGuckLive> no motor connected
[14:00:59] <IchGuckLive> the drive yascawa is at encoder not connected error
[14:01:20] <PCW> can you check that the 26C31 pin 14 is connected to 5V and pin 17 is connected to GND
[14:01:31] <PCW> pin 7
[14:01:54] <PCW> Oh Yaskawa encoders are wierd
[14:02:39] <PCW> they send absolute encoder data serially at startup and then revert to A/B/Z
[14:03:39] <IchGuckLive> i got a 26c31i 16 is 5V and 8 gnd
[14:05:05] <PCW> sorry forgot it was 16p
[14:06:29] <IchGuckLive> power is ok
[14:06:35] <PCW> can you verify that all differential signals are complementary? that would be a fair check of the 26C32
[14:06:48] <PCW> 26C31 that is
[14:07:17] <IchGuckLive> but there is also 13 12 connected to 5V and Gnd without a ohm on the meter
[14:08:45] <IchGuckLive> ok i check this tomorrow and also put a other encoder 2 the size of the motor on it
[14:09:14] <IchGuckLive> i shot this on ebay for less then 100USD
[14:09:53] <PCW> you _are_ measuring this with power off I hope...
[14:10:47] <IchGuckLive> yes
[14:11:41] <PCW> 12 is probably OK since thats a output enable, 13 should not be tied to 5V
[14:14:30] <PCW> so if you can verify that 13 is shorted to 5V and its not a cable issue, that would indicate a bad 26C31
[14:17:12] <IchGuckLive> 5k ohm is the value
[14:18:36] <PCW> 5K ohm is not what I would call a short
[14:18:59] <IchGuckLive> i also not
[14:19:20] <PCW> I would do the complementary signal test
[14:21:26] <IchGuckLive> ok
[14:24:00] <IchGuckLive> 13 is defentif GNDed and it shoud not
[14:25:36] <IchGuckLive> 3 is not 5 is also not so there is a bug
[14:30:09] <IchGuckLive> thanks by tomorrow we will know more
[14:32:38] <PCW> well the output drivers are the most vulnerable parts since they are low impedance and connect to the outside world
[14:57:07] <skunkworks> beta2 Jelly bean for the nook color.. Holy crap - what an improvement from gingerbread.
[14:57:36] <skunkworks> I think I can put up with it for another year
[15:44:16] <archivist> andypugh, a "prototype" http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_02_Drive_gear/IMG_1399.JPG
[15:44:54] <andypugh> He went for it then?
[15:45:35] <archivist> keeps nagging on teh emails
[15:46:20] <archivist> the burr is a pain to deal with
[15:46:57] <archivist> I rebuilt the tool grinder as well to make a better job of the cutter
[15:47:00] <andypugh> Would it be rude to ask the price?
[15:47:58] <archivist> what I should charge and what I will....I need to separate out my learning for fun
[15:49:51] <archivist> the diameter is a problem to measure while on the machine, so the first is over size a bit
[15:50:32] <archivist> machine gets in the way http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_11_02_Drive_gear/IMG_1392.JPG
[15:51:02] <jdh> is that steel?
[15:51:13] <archivist> yes
[15:51:20] <tjb1> Got my netmos 9865 parport :D
[16:00:00] <andypugh> So, do I carry on with my Arduino resolver thing (which has stopped working, randomly) or do I just give up and buy a 7i49
[16:00:17] <PCW> buy or die
[16:01:30] <andypugh> I would need a very strange firmware, 7i44, 7i39, 7i59 on a 5i23.
[16:01:49] <jdh> I'm a big fan of things that 'just work' but I also don't mind spending 10x as much and 10x as much time playing/learning.
[16:02:35] <andypugh> Yeah, this has been fun, but I am not sure I would ever trust it fully to run my machine. Bear in mind that part of it's job is commutating the motors.
[16:03:37] <archivist> I would not be trusting an arduino to be fast enough for motors
[16:03:41] <PCW> I think one trick with resolvers is that you really need filtering of the analog signals
[16:03:58] <jdh> new arduino should be plenty fast enough
[16:04:50] <PCW> the 7I49 has both differential inputs and analog filtering and oversampling
[16:05:03] <PCW> > 1 Ms second
[16:09:44] <andypugh> I see that duz.cz has one. Likely to be easier than importing from the US as the post office won't get to charge me £15 for handling the customs duty stuff.
[16:10:55] <tjb1> FOr the parallel port card, do I just put it in the computer and then run "lspci -vv" or do I need to use the driver disk too?
[16:11:03] <tjb1> Its a netmos 9865 chip
[16:11:09] <andypugh> Just plug it in.
[16:13:14] <tjb1> Thanks andypugh
[16:15:14] <andypugh> Right, that's that done. Now to figure out how to do my jogwheel. I guess I _could_ use another resolver, but the 7i73 is more likely.
[16:16:43] <andypugh> I wonder if it would be fun to make a resolver?
[16:21:50] <PCW> the newer ones uses rotary transformer to power the rotor (a pot core)
[16:22:07] <PCW> (instead of slip rings)
[16:24:06] <PCW> the rotor is just a 2 pole "bar magnet"
[16:26:19] <PCW> getting the shapes right to make it linear is probably rather fussy
[16:27:23] <PCW> (and by linear I mean accurate sine/cosine amplitudes)
[16:43:25] <andypugh> This would just be for a jogwheel
[16:44:37] <PCW> a normal 100 count MPG with detents might be nicer
[16:45:23] <andypugh> Yes, but I am not sure where to plug it in.
[16:45:36] <PCW> 7I73
[16:45:37] <ReadError> any of yall done gear cutting before?
[16:45:39] <ReadError> looks fun ;)
[16:46:22] <andypugh> I am also a bit worried that I might have to be a bit clever with the VFD control, though I will have many more analogue outputs than I need.
[16:47:03] <andypugh> ReadError: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&feature=share&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[16:49:20] <tjb1> Here is what lspci -vv gives me, is the address at ddb0-8?
[16:49:21] <tjb1> http://pastebin.com/eSwsGWB8
[16:50:43] <andypugh> I find the output of cat /proc/ioports clearer.
[16:51:13] <tjb1> Alright, brb.
[16:54:41] <andypugh> Hmm. Now I have abandoned my Resolver thing, I am not sure what to do with the evening!
[16:55:01] <tjb1> http://pastebin.com/LVWwPwN0
[16:55:02] <andypugh> LinuxCNC on RaspPi?
[16:55:07] <tjb1> Looks like 0778 is the new one?
[16:55:37] <tjb1> 378 is already loaded in my hal file
[16:55:54] <andypugh> Looks like it. I am curious why they are both parport0 though.
[16:57:35] <tjb1> So I could place this "loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x778 out 0xddb0 in 0xddb8 in"
[16:57:37] <andypugh> You don't necessarily need the base address anyway, LinuxCNC can handle you calling them 0 and 1
[16:58:32] <tjb1> That would set all pins as input then correct?
[16:58:39] <andypugh> No, loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x738 out 0x778 out" is probably the correct new line in the HAL
[16:59:12] <tjb1> 738?
[16:59:17] <andypugh> Then you will have a bunch of pins called parport.0 and parport.1
[16:59:31] <andypugh> I am assuming you want to use both parports?
[16:59:35] <tjb1> Yes
[16:59:40] <tjb1> Did you mean 378?
[16:59:40] <andypugh> But I can't read.
[16:59:43] <andypugh> Yes
[17:00:20] <tjb1> the 778 one is just going to be for more I/O
[17:00:23] <tjb1> Not stepper control
[17:00:43] <andypugh> Maybe configure it as "in" then?
[17:03:00] <tjb1> The 0xddb0 and 0xddb8 would allow me control the 16 pins right?
[17:03:19] <tjb1> Then I could break them up as needed like 0xddb0 out and 0xddb8 in would give me 8 in and 8 out?
[17:04:02] <andypugh> Not as far as I know
[17:04:27] <andypugh> I think you can only set up a parport in either of the two parport styles.
[17:04:30] <tjb1> Im just reading this - http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/18-computer/18917-faq-pci-parallel-port-cards
[17:04:40] <tjb1> 0xc000 and 0xb800 are set as input, which sets pins 2-9 as input, allowing many sensors, encoders, switches etc to be attached
[17:04:51] <tjb1> but mine are ddb0 and ddb8
[17:06:01] <andypugh> Those are 2 extra parports, I only saw one extra in your config, and that is the 0x778 one
[17:07:01] <andypugh> Is your new one a double-headed one?
[17:07:22] <tjb1> No I think I got it now
[17:07:47] <tjb1> Setting it as out gives 2-9 output and 10-16 as in?
[17:07:55] <andypugh> Pictures here of the two possibilities: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/parallel_port.html
[17:10:46] <tjb1> That helps a lot, thanks
[17:19:42] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[18:14:25] <sliptonic> PCW: Still trying to control this VFD. I've set up analogout5 for pwm spindle but my vfd only takes 0-10v for a speed reference. I've got one of the other digital output pins set for spindleCW and wired through a relay to turn the spindle on/off. It works but I'm wondering how I get speed control and reverse.
[18:18:14] <jdh> make your own freq/analog filter or buy one (cnc4pc.com c41 perhaps) ?
[18:23:09] <skunkworks> he has analog outs...
[18:23:17] <skunkworks> If I am remembering correctly
[18:23:42] <jdh> <nevermind :>
[18:24:30] <jdh> I assumed otherwise from the PWM spindle and the vfd wanting 0-10v
[19:01:20] <andypugh> sliptonic: Can you tie logic 0V to the COM on the VFD?
[19:01:29] <andypugh> Or would you prefer not to?
[19:12:00] <Tom_itx> any txt editors that will do inch / metric conversion of the data?
[19:15:10] <andypugh> PCW: The flasher is saying "No hm2 devices found" after successfully downloading the svua8_8 firmware to the 5i23. The 8i20 is in port 0 of the 7i44 which is on CN4. That ought to work, shouldn't it?
[19:16:01] <Tom_itx> i've got one that will do operations on data. i suppose that would work
[19:16:25] <andypugh> And I am fairly sure I have done the job before. But I can't recall what hardware setup I used.
[19:47:46] <andypugh> Crikey, this is a serious micrometer: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190744612617
[19:49:39] <PCW> Yes that should work (and I am assumung that firmware worked before)
[19:50:18] <andypugh> Yes, all I have done it shange the 8i20.BIN file.
[19:50:27] <PCW> no hm2 hardware found is pretty serious, means no 55AACAFE cookie at offset 0x100 in the FPGA
[19:50:57] <PCW> hardware issues?
[19:51:31] <andypugh> It reports success downloading the firmware to the card. (even reporting /DONE success)
[19:51:57] <PCW> what does dmesg say?
[19:52:07] <andypugh> dmesg in DOS?
[19:52:48] <PCW> Oh DOS
[19:55:14] <PCW> Its probably one of those Motherboards where the DOS memory access fails
[19:56:06] <andypugh> It might be. It's an Atom board.
[19:56:19] <PCW> Intel Atom MBs are one that does not work
[19:56:35] <andypugh> So I do need to write the Linux version then?
[19:57:38] <PCW> so the loading and reading /done are done in I/O space (which always works) but HM2 access is always via memory (since its a 64K window = too big for I/O)
[19:58:17] <PCW> well I think you had another MB that worked at one time
[19:58:43] <andypugh> Yes. I probably plugged everything into ye olde xeon
[19:59:15] <PCW> some work some dont, seems BIOS dependent
[19:59:16] <andypugh> It's a bit more of a pain now, but I can try it.
[20:01:06] <PCW> programming is not terribly hard and AFAIK all cards are programmed the same (skip boot block, program next n blocks (however big the file is))
[20:04:12] <andypugh> I might be able to figure it out with the sourcecode.
[20:07:08] <PCW> The bad thing is if you make a mistake you may brick the device
[20:07:09] <PCW> So if you are writing code, probably best to let us test it first
[20:08:14] <andypugh> How common is it for the DOS utility not to work?
[20:10:51] <PCW> about 50% of newer MBs dont work
[20:11:13] <andypugh> And about 2% of users need to update their firmware?
[20:14:15] <PCW> Yeah
[20:21:15] <PCW> the windows utils always work (and are not a problem with the 8I20) but getting serial port access to 7I76 and 7I77 is awkward
[20:28:35] <PCW> If you are considering a Linux utility I would use SSERIAL and not the UART
[20:29:59] <PCW> (so the standard FPGA firmware can be used which avoids a couple awkward steps with 5I25 and 6I25 cards)
[20:38:25] <PCW> bbl
[20:48:07] <tjb1> Is there something like kickstarter that isnt full of crap like all the books, movies, comics?
[21:54:04] <tjb1> Hey r00t4rd3d - http://freedxf.com/ - dont let the name get you too excitied…half of them cost money