#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-20

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[00:41:45] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: for what do you need such items of art made of wood?
[02:10:18] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:11:41] <mazafaka> moin.
[02:15:31] <mazafaka> Is it true users sometimes reinstall Windows systems one or two times a year? These freeware programs are like trash in Windows installations...
[02:16:31] <DJ9DJ> is he going to reinstall his windows now? ;)
[05:07:42] <mrsun> would someone kick wsjr|2 in the balls so he wakes up ? :P
[06:08:35] <jthornton> logger[psha], log
[06:08:36] <logger[psha]> jthornton: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-10-20.html
[06:41:48] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[06:46:17] <jthornton> morning
[07:19:13] <archivist> 1pm past lunch time!
[07:36:04] <jthornton> anyone feel like playing with this http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[07:36:08] <jthornton> be back in a bit
[07:46:34] <archivist> andypugh, made the garage chav proof?
[07:46:53] <andypugh> I reckon so.
[07:48:30] <andypugh> I wasn't especially pleased to find that, after setting the resin anchors, I needed to oval a hole in a plate. Which meant I had to put the mill control cabinet back together, and edit the code and remake… That meant that I cooked my dinner at 1am.
[07:49:16] <archivist> I did see your sign off at 4 am :)
[07:51:21] <archivist> I bodged a tool cutter grinder from a comparator stand and ball slides and a few clamps after looking at what others have done at the show, made/sharpened a cutter today
[07:53:52] <andypugh> any pictures?
[07:54:53] <archivist> not yet
[07:56:22] <archivist> spindle is an ER16 parallel shaft , will take a few pics in a few minutes
[07:57:41] <andypugh> From eBay? I used a similar (ER32) thing for my rotary. Very convenient.
[07:58:47] <archivist> yup, cheap and cheerful and seems good enough for "average" work
[08:01:22] <archivist> oops, left camera switched on, waiting for a quick charge
[08:02:50] <archivist> a "got at" quorn I spotted http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_10_18_Model_Engineer_Radford/IMG_1372.JPG
[08:10:32] <andypugh> Needs more clamp handles.
[08:24:08] <awallin> archivist: is that machine good for making gears (e.g. worm-gears) also, or just for making/sharpening endmills?
[08:25:26] <archivist> the quorn is just a general purpose tool and cutter grinder
[08:26:08] <archivist> a real bodge :) http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_10_20_Tool_grinder/
[08:27:03] <archivist> the psu ammeter a seems good judge of cut
[08:29:22] <archivist> hmm pics show the mistakes in grinding but it is my first attempt (my excuse)
[08:31:55] <andypugh> It might be argued that the Quorn looked more professional.
[08:32:12] <awallin> lot's of clamps in those pics :)
[08:33:13] <andypugh> I wonder if it would have been better to have V-blocks under the work spindle bearings?
[08:34:27] <archivist> possibly, but one of my v blocks is holding my security camera looking at the back door
[08:35:14] <andypugh> Which reminds me, I have a bit left to do on my garage door.
[08:35:17] <andypugh> rrfn
[08:35:22] <andypugh> ttfn even
[08:35:27] <archivist> I was going to mill some parts for it but had a VFD on the horizontal let the smoke out yesterday
[08:36:10] <andypugh> There is a lot to be said for working with an easily adjustable prototype.
[08:39:15] <archivist> and re use of "assemblies"
[08:59:13] <Tom_itx> those are huge
[09:01:52] <Tom_itx> would someone boot wsjr until he can fix his connection?
[09:45:24] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: want to test something?
[09:45:44] <Tom_itx> i saw it but don't have my linux booted
[09:46:17] <JT-Shop> should work in winblows if you have python installed but dunno about the sqlite
[09:46:47] <Tom_itx> i don't
[09:49:20] <JT-Shop> nevermind I forgot the helper module
[09:50:13] <Tom_itx> aww..
[09:50:20] <Tom_itx> you mean i booted for nothing?
[09:50:31] <JT-Shop> I'll make it a windblows exe in a bit
[09:50:42] <JT-Shop> give me a min to update the zip file
[09:50:52] <Tom_itx> i just booted the atom
[09:53:18] <jthornton> ok, I just uploaded the new zip
[09:57:51] <skunkworks> jthornton: stepping servos solve everthing
[09:58:24] <skunkworks> *stepper servos
[09:58:53] <jthornton> LOL
[09:59:28] <skunkworks> Do you see what I have been dealing with for years? People just don't get it :)
[09:59:36] <jthornton> yea, that's what I want to do... and climb Everest
[09:59:44] <jthornton> yea I see that
[10:00:12] <jthornton> skunkworks, give my calculator a short spin if you don't mind
[10:00:22] <skunkworks> where?
[10:00:37] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[10:01:38] <jthornton> the only thing that works is the threading tab
[10:03:10] <atom1> ok how do i start this?
[10:03:25] <jthornton> ./sfc.pyc from the terminal
[10:03:28] <atom1> i've slept since then
[10:04:22] <skunkworks> jthornton: I currently have 12.04 installed
[10:04:42] <jthornton> will it run older python?
[10:04:49] <atom1> ImportError: No module named populate
[10:05:01] <skunkworks> http://pastebin.com/i66EAefk
[10:05:03] <jthornton> somehow you got the old file
[10:05:16] <jthornton> download again and refresh the page
[10:05:57] <jthornton> might need the py files instead
[10:06:03] <atom1> same error
[10:06:06] <jthornton> give me a minute
[10:07:33] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/files/sfcpy.zip
[10:07:39] <jthornton> try that one
[10:08:31] <JesusAlos> Hi people
[10:08:42] <atom1> run populate.py?
[10:09:09] <jthornton> no sfc.py
[10:09:23] <atom1> ImportError: No module named data
[10:09:30] <atom1> line 23
[10:09:35] <jthornton> crap
[10:09:56] <atom1> do i need something installed i may not have?
[10:09:58] <jthornton> delete that line
[10:10:52] <JesusAlos> there are a way to open dxf files with EMC2?
[10:11:00] <jthornton> no
[10:11:17] <jthornton> use qcad or ...
[10:11:32] <atom1> cute
[10:12:12] <atom1> actual measurement and calculate pitch diameter are blank
[10:12:15] <skunkworks> I still get the pastbin'ed error
[10:12:59] <jthornton> yuck
[10:13:03] <jthornton> thanks for trying
[10:13:06] <atom1> ISO M2 makes the screen go nuts
[10:13:31] <jthornton> yea the iso database is not fully poplulated
[10:13:46] <jthornton> really the only one with full database entrys are the UNC thread forms
[10:13:51] <atom1> it made the vertical about a mile long
[10:14:14] <JesusAlos> cute cad?
[10:15:10] <atom1> jthornton, something is up on resizing the window on M2
[10:15:13] <jthornton> anyhow at least I know it works on 10.045 now
[10:15:28] <jthornton> yea just try out the UNC thread forms
[10:15:40] <JesusAlos> I need convert dxf to g-code
[10:15:53] <jthornton> I'll get the database updated later today
[10:16:00] <JesusAlos> I use the convert2gcode, but i cant edit the route
[10:16:17] <atom1> also the window resizes on them when the next one selected it longer than the previous
[10:16:30] <jthornton> for UNC?
[10:16:34] <atom1> yes
[10:16:44] <atom1> and doesn't revert when you select the shorter one
[10:18:04] <jthornton> restart it
[10:19:19] <atom1> is that the fix?
[10:19:25] <atom1> :)
[10:19:29] <jthornton> I have to add some code for the ISO to calculate in mm's
[10:20:00] <jthornton> the list should be limited enough so the screen doesn't expand that much
[10:20:14] <atom1> on the M2 it sure does
[10:20:37] <atom1> wonder how hard it would be to put the data in a scrolling list
[10:20:51] <jthornton> yea the size in the database is in mm so I need to do some more work on ISO calculations
[10:21:09] <jthornton> atom1, good idea
[10:21:25] <atom1> then you can limit your window size
[10:22:19] <atom1> M2 is just wrong though
[10:22:40] <atom1> it puts data at the top, leaves a big blank then finishes data way off the screen at the bottom
[10:24:07] <atom1> the blank is likely due to the unfinshed data file
[10:24:35] <JesusAlos> please. There are a CAM software free?
[10:25:02] <archivist> some, but you need to put some effort in to use
[10:25:17] <archivist> heekscam is one
[10:25:50] <skunkworks> jthornton: when I have more time I will see if I can get an older version of python
[10:26:28] <archivist> each cam program has a niche where it works best, for anything else hand code your gcode
[10:29:09] <jthornton> skunkworks, thanks and when I get more time I'll see if it is possible to run this on python 3
[10:37:19] <pcw_home> in my limited experience python 3 is pretty broken
[10:37:31] <jthornton> yikes
[10:37:45] <jthornton> what comes on 12.04?
[10:38:51] <pcw_home> nothing natively
[10:40:06] <skunkworks> maybe that is my problem
[10:41:24] <awallin> I have python 2.7.3 on 12.04lts (if that was what you were asking..)
[10:42:40] <pcw_home> It not actually broken, it just incompatible with Python2.x (and a lot of stuff that was nicely done in 2.x is still missing in 3.x)
[10:46:20] <jthornton> fixed a few broken things but ISO is broken http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/files/sfc.zip
[10:51:25] <skunkworks> jthornton: do you have a screenshot of following error on your BP?
[10:51:27] <skunkworks> :)
[10:51:41] <jthornton> I think I do have one
[10:51:49] <jthornton> but it is hard to see :)
[10:52:09] <skunkworks> (for homeshopmachinist...)
[10:52:19] <jthornton> Tom_itx, I got the scrolled viewport working
[10:52:38] <jthornton> I'll have to post it later... I'm off to a sale
[11:01:15] <Tom_itx> don't spend it all
[11:01:18] <jp11> pcw_home: any opinionson trying to talk to a hiperface encoder
[11:07:27] <pcw_home> Hmm needs a serial port but more importantly a interpolator
[11:08:14] <jp11> could i not use the 7i44 as the serial port
[11:09:44] <jp11> and would the new serial analogue daughter cards be fast enough for the sin cos part?
[11:11:09] <pcw_home> Maybe if the interpolation was done in the remote serial card code (we have planned to try this with the 7I87 when we get a chance)
[11:12:15] <pcw_home> we were looking more at a replacement interpolator for Heidenhaine linear scales
[11:13:12] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Couldn't that be done within the FPGA?
[11:13:14] <jp11> i just wanted to work on the hiperfaceserial part for now the interpolation is pretty straight forward
[11:14:11] <pcw_home> Yes it can be done in the FPGA but that requires fast A-Ds and high speed coms to FPGA = $$
[11:15:02] <Jymmm> Really? the CPU/Serial port is faster than the FPGA?
[11:15:06] <pcw_home> we can do the A-D and interpolation in a $2 DSPIC at close to 1 MHz
[11:15:39] <pcw_home> we cannot buy a A-D chip as cheap as the DSPICS built in A-D
[11:15:57] <pcw_home> (4 MS sec 10 bit)
[11:16:03] <jp11> thats the part where i get confused hiperface runs at 9600baud
[11:16:44] <pcw_home> its absolute encoder part runs at 9600 baud
[11:16:55] <jp11> yes
[11:17:23] <pcw_home> but i think that quite crude (mainly for commutation))
[11:17:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: TWO FPGAs!!! =)
[11:18:02] <pcw_home> no $2 FPGAs
[11:18:24] <jp11> so isitjust used at power up?
[11:18:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Or FPGA and 64bit DSP!
[11:18:59] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, fix wsjr please
[11:19:18] <pcw_home> It can run all the time and its possible to sync them
[11:19:37] <pcw_home> the hiperface manual is pretty good
[11:19:38] <Jymmm> pcw_home: (the worlds fastest mario bros steper motor music instrument)
[11:20:59] <pcw_home> But completing the interface to all digital would have been nicer (like SSI or BISS)
[11:21:13] <Jymmm> wsjr: Your connection has been bouncing really bad for the last couple of hours. change your nick to get back into the channel and ask someone to remove the ban for you.
[11:21:20] <jp11> yes i have been reading the manual.
[11:21:59] <jp11> ssi also has sin cos as well i thought
[11:22:28] <jp11> biss have not really dealt with
[11:23:08] <jp11> maybe i shold just look at hiperface to ssi conversion
[11:23:31] <pcw_home> SSI and BISS are simple digital interfaces: RS-422 clock out, RS-422data in
[11:23:35] <Jymmm> lag
[11:23:58] <jp11> sick does make a converter
[11:24:04] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Just in general, do you play with DSPs much?
[11:24:12] <pcw_home> the price will make you sick
[11:24:17] <jp11> yes
[11:24:42] <pcw_home> Yes we use them for almost all the SSERIAL remotes
[11:24:52] <jp11> i have a huge bone to pick with sick
[11:25:15] <pcw_home> did Sick buy Heidenhaine?
[11:25:57] <jp11> sold me a 13k sick 3d camera that could not do the job
[11:26:05] <pcw_home> (I thought Hiperface was a Heidenhaine standard)
[11:26:07] <motioncontrol> pcw_home, good morning at all.now i use 13 bit on 5i20 can have 14 or 16 bit analog resolution ?
[11:26:18] <pcw_home> why?
[11:26:25] <jp11> nope sick owns hiperface
[11:26:37] <jp11> hedenhain is endat
[11:26:51] <motioncontrol> for particular system sensing
[11:26:55] <pcw_home> Ok
[11:27:09] <pcw_home> sensing meaning A-D?
[11:27:18] <motioncontrol> yes
[11:27:39] <motioncontrol> more accurate signal
[11:28:17] <pcw_home> more accurate signal out or in?
[11:28:39] <motioncontrol> out anaog +/- 10volt
[11:28:52] <pcw_home> 7I65 is 16 bit
[11:29:15] <motioncontrol> and can use it with 5i20
[11:29:17] <motioncontrol> ?
[11:29:21] <pcw_home> yes
[11:29:47] <motioncontrol> the driver is the same about 7i33 ?
[11:29:58] <pcw_home> no
[11:30:11] <motioncontrol> waths name ?
[11:30:23] <motioncontrol> whats name driver ?
[11:30:26] <pcw_home> hm2
[11:30:42] <Jymmm> Has anyone seen or can anyone confirm the formula here? http://www.referencedesigner.com/table/table_01.php
[11:30:45] <pcw_home> but BSPI module
[11:31:14] <pcw_home> also needs 7I65 comp
[11:31:37] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for info good work
[11:32:21] <pcw_home> we will have a high res A-D and D-A SSERIAL cards later this year as well
[11:32:30] <pcw_home> as well as a TC card
[11:33:19] <jp11> the 7i44 can do rs485 correct
[11:33:40] <motioncontrol> pcw_home, excuse 7i65 use only one connector the 5i20, remain 2 free ?
[11:35:03] <pcw_home> Yes one connector
[11:35:06] <jp11> what firmware would i use with a 5i20 and the 7i44 to control a port on the 7i44
[11:35:22] <pcw_home> Yes the 7I44 can do RS-485 on all channels
[11:35:58] <pcw_home> something with UA in it if you want UARTS
[11:36:40] <pcw_home> not sure if Andy driver supports RS485 (the hardware/firmware does)
[11:37:06] <jp11> do i just specify how many uarts i want on the hal line
[11:37:08] <pcw_home> (auto TXEN control from TXFIFO)
[11:37:42] <pcw_home> probably you would have to find out from Andy
[11:38:18] <jp11> andy suggested it could work last night. just wanted to get your thoughts as well
[11:39:15] <pcw_home> hardware also has auto rxmask option for 1/2 duplex, not sure if thats supported either
[11:42:02] <jp11> how fast is the analogue on the pendant card?
[11:43:28] <pcw_home> I think its inputs are sampled at 50 KHz but sserisl link update rates are only 1-10KHz or so
[11:44:18] <pcw_home> I forget whether its averaged or not (since only 8 bits are available)
[11:45:20] <jp11> ok so that wouldnt work. but ok to play with
[11:46:46] <jp11> andy said somthing lastnight about not having smart serial if i used the uart driver.
[11:47:24] <pcw_home> I think a hiperface to SSI converter could easily be done with LPCXXXX or DSPIC for a ~$10 parts cost (and a fair amount of head scratching)
[11:48:47] <L84Supper> hiperface?
[11:48:55] <pcw_home> They are currently incompatible because of the IDROMs limited way of specifying register strides (also UART and Resolver are incompatible)
[11:49:17] <pcw_home> IDROMV4 will fix this
[11:50:57] <pcw_home> hiperface is Sicks high res absolute encoder interface
[11:51:42] <motioncontrol> pcw_home, excuse again can read 8 analog input on hal interface ?
[11:51:44] <L84Supper> http://www.sick.com/group/EN/home/products/product_portfolio/encoders/Pages/hiperface_multiturn.aspx
[11:52:13] <pcw_home> With 7I87 you can or 7I65
[11:53:04] <motioncontrol> good thanks
[12:14:58] <jp11> still trying to understand the purpose of the sin cos signals.
[12:15:42] <awallin> resolver on motor?
[12:15:52] <jp11> from the drives perspective
[12:16:32] <awallin> I guess it is used for measuring the rotor position, more accurately than hall-signals
[12:16:39] <jp11> sin and cos on an absolute serial encoder. the sin and cos are incremental signals
[12:16:49] <jp11> must be
[12:17:10] <r00t4rd3d> Arduino released the 32bit Due today I guess....
[12:17:42] <r00t4rd3d> 32bit ARM processor running at 84 MHz
[12:19:40] <JesusAlos> hi
[12:19:53] <JesusAlos> Anyone can tell me where I can find the folder organization of emc2?
[12:23:46] <L84Supper> r00t4rd3d, have a link to it?
[12:24:06] <L84Supper> wondering which one they used
[12:25:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/
[12:36:06] <L84Supper> pcw_home, does anyone have turn key machine controllers with the mesa cards ad cpu in one enclosure?
[12:36:52] <pcw_home> Not that I know of
[12:37:09] <L84Supper> pcw_home, thanks
[12:37:17] <L84Supper> I could not find any
[12:41:18] <L84Supper> http://greatcnc.en.made-in-china.com/product/ibNQHSmKhapM/China-Mini-CNC-Controller-for-Lathe-GREAT-60TT-.html
[12:41:36] <L84Supper> 32b ARM + FPGA but closed CNC software
[12:42:25] <skunkworks> Structure: Open-Loop
[12:42:37] <L84Supper> http://greatcnc.en.made-in-china.com/product/leymiunoJfpb/China-CNC-Controller-for-Milling-Machine-Great-150IM-II-.html
[12:42:54] <L84Supper> heh Structure: Semi-Closed Loop
[12:43:52] <pcw_home> whatever that means
[12:44:01] <L84Supper> they seem to have high end controllers like Fanuc or simple controllers like ^^
[12:45:26] <L84Supper> there's a CNC/automation show next month in Shaghai, I hope to know the status of the systems available by then
[12:45:37] <L84Supper> Shanghai even
[12:48:18] <L84Supper> http://gtcnc.en.ecplaza.net/cnc-controller-for-milling-machining--127119-527476.html $2500
[12:51:03] <L84Supper> http://www.ecplaza.net/trade-leads-seller/great-180m-cnc-system--4796659.html mach3 maybe?
[12:51:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/uuPuZ.png
[12:55:44] <Jymmm> L84Supper: two link http://itrademarket.com/chengdugreatcnc/1228578/cnc-controller-for-lathe-great-150itj.htm and you might have to urn odd Js to see this one: http://gtcncen.xm28.91cdn.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:great-150im-ii&catid=34:machining-center-cnc-system&Itemid=54
[12:58:19] <L84Supper> Jymmm, yeah, i was trying to find that models specs, they seem to make about 4 different models with different CPU's
[12:58:45] <Jymmm> L84Supper: I used google image search fwiw
[12:59:02] <L84Supper> http://www.salecnc.com/catalog/ anyone ever order from here?
[13:00:17] <L84Supper> Jymmm, Chengdu Great Industrial website is down right now
[13:00:53] <Jymmm> L84Supper: It's hosted elsewhere, disable javascript and reload =)
[13:01:56] <L84Supper> sometimes i don't know how they manage to sell anything with all these broken sites
[13:03:13] <L84Supper> I bet the ARM soc's are ARM9 2440's
[13:04:42] <L84Supper> memleak is working with the main RTAI dev to get support for the latest kernels
[13:05:44] <L84Supper> other than RTAI on new kernels what else does LinuxCNC need help with?
[13:08:24] <r00t4rd3d> who is memleak ?
[13:11:03] <L84Supper> whois r00t4rd3d ?
[13:14:13] <L84Supper> http://www.bmedm.com/product/262-cnc-machining-center-bvmc650-bvmc650-e473/
[13:14:43] <L84Supper> machine controller options: Mitsubishi, Fanuc, Siemens and Syntec
[13:17:40] <r00t4rd3d> Error: The visible tool paths use different tools and the selected Post Processor does not support tool changing.
[13:18:00] <r00t4rd3d> is there a post processor for linuxcnc that does allow for tool changing?
[13:18:27] <awallin> r00t4rd3d: what CAM program are you using?
[13:18:36] <r00t4rd3d> aspire
[13:19:00] <r00t4rd3d> the pp i am using now is EMC2 Archs(inch)
[13:19:21] <awallin> you probably need to hack the post-processor yourself, or find someone who has done it already..
[14:28:04] <jthornton> skunkworks, post a photo of the whole K & T so they get a size reference
[14:29:38] <r00t4rd3d> These people were insistent that I use an old barn board: http://i.imgur.com/oafnv.jpg
[14:36:15] * archivist just had to go look at what skunkworks and jthornton were stirring :)
[14:37:56] <archivist> so what happens when one drive on a mach setup has a following error, do the others carry on regardless for a while :)
[14:40:36] <skunkworks> archivist: The only real way is to have the whole system estop.
[14:40:44] <skunkworks> which at that point - you have lost home
[14:41:17] <archivist> I realise that but do the mach lovers
[14:41:32] <skunkworks> not many I would guess
[14:42:26] <jp_1> pcw_home where can i find ua firmware
[14:42:54] <pcw_home> in card dist zip file from mesa
[14:44:34] <jp_1> freeby?
[14:46:31] <pcw_home> mesanet.com
[14:46:45] <pcw_home> normal web site zip file
[14:47:52] <pcw_home> source only, I dont think there are any pre-built UART bitfiles around, but I can search the attic...
[14:51:09] <jp_1> I like tha pin fill basaxwards
[14:52:50] <jp_1> that pin file^
[14:53:02] <pcw_home> 5i23_svua8_8.bit,5i23uart.bit,7i47uart.bit,stua8_4.bit,svstua6_6_6.bit,
[14:53:04] <pcw_home> svua4_8b.bit,svua6_6.bit,svua8_4.bit,svua8_8.bit,ua2.bit in the attic, who knows what they are...
[14:53:42] <andypugh> I think I recognise some of them.
[14:54:43] <jp_1> Whats the leading SV mean? SVSS = smart serial SVUA = uart. what else is there?
[14:54:43] <pcw_home> Really need to get V4 IDROM in place so UART is not a black sheep
[14:54:55] <pcw_home> SV is servo
[14:55:28] <andypugh> I had to comment out the idrom test in uart last night. After midnight, so I could drill a hole :-)
[14:55:56] <jp_1> so ST = step or stepper
[14:56:09] <pcw_home> guerrilla tech
[14:56:19] <pcw_home> st = stepgen
[14:56:38] <andypugh> I have 5i23.svua8_8 and svstua6_6_6. Those are not in the standard distribution, so my theory is that they were made for me and/or Isssy
[14:58:10] <jp_1> care to throw one my way?
[14:58:14] <pcw_home> Yes
[14:58:22] <pcw_home> oops
[14:59:17] <pcw_home> Yes made for you or issy (or us before we fixed SSLBP to allow firmware updates on sserial remotes)
[15:00:27] <pcw_home> much slicker especially on 5I25s since we dont need to re-write the FPGA EEPROM/power cycle to update remote firmware
[15:00:53] <andypugh> I managed to git-clean away my uart reader comp for the resolvers. I seem to have no copy anywhere, either.
[15:02:19] <JT-Shop> yikes
[15:02:34] <andypugh> I can re-write it fairly readily
[15:02:42] <andypugh> Possibly even better.
[15:03:17] <pcw_home> Ouch
[15:03:49] <pcw_home> does issy have a copy
[15:04:08] <andypugh> No, this was only for the Arduino resolver thing
[15:04:37] <andypugh> Actually… Perhaps someone has ideas how to do it better.
[15:04:44] <jp_1> did that work well?
[15:06:22] <r00t4rd3d> see the SlimJim is trying to counter Red Bull with the shortest free fall?
[15:06:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/6fAGg.gif
[15:06:35] <andypugh> I need to send 3 x 10bit numbers. I do that with 6x8bit backets, where the msb indicates if it is an MSB or LSB and the next 2 bits indicate which channel it belongs to. so 101xxxxx is bits 5-9 of the second channel.
[15:10:17] <pcw_home> andypugh do you have a 7I65?
[15:10:43] <andypugh> No, I somehow managed to write that driver without the hardware.
[15:11:04] <andypugh> A 7i65 would be cheating :-)
[15:13:23] <jp_1> how would a drive use an absolute position value from an encoder if its only reading it at 9600 baud?
[15:13:27] <pcw_home> Because it looks like somehow the driver or comp have gotten broken (comp wont compile cleanly anymore and with obvious patch it no longer works)
[15:17:35] <andypugh> I have not noticed any compile problems.
[15:17:57] <andypugh> But I haven't tried to use one either.
[15:19:07] <pcw_home> the comp wont compile (do you have a different comp?)
[15:20:33] <andypugh> I very vaguely remember a conversation before I went to Spain. (which I am just looking back through).
[15:20:41] <andypugh> That was a segfault in the driver.
[15:21:56] <pcw_home> Thats right my memory is not what it used to be...
[15:21:58] <pcw_home> the patch was to the 7i65 comp
[15:22:52] <pcw_home> whats funny is we have a number of people using the 7I65 so the brokenness somehow got introduced
[15:27:45] <andypugh> Very strange. It just failed to compile for me too
[15:27:57] <andypugh> Let me look into this.
[15:33:22] <pcw_home> some kind of global (naming?) change was made that broke it
[15:34:05] <andypugh> I can fix it, but it's a flaky fix.
[15:34:33] <andypugh> Change include "../../../hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.h"; to include "../../hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.h";
[15:42:30] <pcw_home> andypugh I will try that on Monday
[15:43:07] <andypugh> What error were you seeing "implicit declaration of…." errors?
[15:44:08] <pcw_home> Its been a month or so so I dont remember
[15:44:50] <pcw_home> A customer provide a patch but then it did not work (SPI access broken somehow)
[15:45:15] <FinboySlick> andypugh: That makes me think we need more variables named 'war' or 'independence'.
[15:45:58] <andypugh> "I have nothing to declare but my genius"
[15:47:10] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Nice concept for the obfuscated code contest. Single variable program.
[15:47:29] <FinboySlick> You only declare 'my_genius'.
[15:47:59] <andypugh> oscar_wilde.c
[15:55:43] <andypugh> pcw_home: I have a feeling that there is a wierder problem. I think that "make" works, but comp --install doesn't.
[15:57:03] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: I'm still getting a communication error http://imagebin.org/232652
[15:58:45] <JT-Shop> oddly it happens when I home
[15:58:53] <JT-Shop> sometimes
[16:01:36] <andypugh> pcw_home: The existing version of mesa_7i65 does compile during the normal "make" process. It just can't be comp --installed because the path to the header is different.
[16:14:49] <r00t4rd3d> cncbasher, you here?
[16:15:01] <Nick001-Shop> What mesa card would I use for these devices? http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/uim24302a-self-pulsing-miniature-stepper-driver-p-556.html?cPath=9_3_4
[16:16:15] <andypugh> It says "− Speed control through 0 - 5V voltage input 0.15 - 1900 RPM (UIM24302B)" so the 7i77 that you already have sounds good.
[16:16:58] <Nick001-Shop> I have 5i20 and 7i30
[16:17:19] <andypugh> Ah, I am confusing you with someone else then, sorry.
[16:18:55] <Nick001-Shop> same question - what mesa cards would I use?
[16:20:58] <andypugh> Well, as it is self-pulsing you can only send speed information.
[16:21:12] <andypugh> What are you intending to drive with it?
[16:22:02] <Nick001-Shop> stepper motors 5v 1amp with glass scale feedback if they still work
[16:23:26] <andypugh> OK, you definitely need the glass scale feedback if you are determined to use those drives. There are some more expensive ones on that site with conventional step-dir inputs.
[16:24:46] <Nick001-Shop> would they work with scales or encoders if the scales don't work
[16:24:47] <andypugh> Using the glass scales and the speed-control drivers you would effectively have a velocity-mode servo system and would need to use a PID in HAL to control the position. It might work rather well.
[16:25:31] <andypugh> Assuming you can get the scale data in to HAL.
[16:26:08] <andypugh> If you have encoders on the motors then those little drives can't mount to the motors (as they appear to want to)
[16:26:52] <Nick001-Shop> they say they can be standalone
[16:27:15] <andypugh> At that point, why not use a conventional stepper drive though?
[16:28:21] <Nick001-Shop> you recommended these about a week ago - looking for all my options to drive these
[16:29:06] <andypugh> I recommended them because I thought that you were wanting to put them on a servo machine that already had a 7i77 (I think).
[16:29:52] <Nick001-Shop> already has the steppers on them
[16:30:03] <Nick001-Shop> would the stepper ver or 7i30 drive these?
[16:30:34] <Nick001-Shop> of
[16:31:17] <andypugh> 7i32? It ought to.
[16:32:17] <Nick001-Shop> will it accept scale or encoder feedback?
[16:32:37] <andypugh> But did PCW say that the 7i32 doesn't work with Hostmot2?
[16:33:24] <Nick001-Shop> I don't know thought I could plug it into the 5I 20
[16:34:33] <andypugh> You can definitely plug it in. What I am not sure of is if it can be used with LinuxCNC-compatible firmware.
[16:34:52] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Are you familiar with the fonejacker/facejacker?
[16:34:59] <andypugh> No
[16:35:39] <andypugh> pcw_home: Am I right that the 7i32 doesn't work with the Hostmot2 driver?
[16:37:38] <FinboySlick> How I love british tv.
[16:38:54] <andypugh> Nick001: You could probably just use http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190680714045
[16:39:42] <Nick001-Shop> looking it up - dialup connection for now
[16:40:05] <andypugh> It's one of the cheap 3-axis TB6560 boards.
[16:41:17] <andypugh> It has opto-isolators so you could wire direct to the 5i20.
[16:41:25] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:43:27] <Nick001-Shop> does that work with the mesa card or from the parallel port
[16:43:38] <andypugh> Either
[16:44:26] <andypugh> You would need a 50-pin header to DB25 cable.
[16:45:10] <andypugh> (Mesa cards don't _need_ daughter cards, it's just often convenient)
[16:46:23] <andypugh> That doesn't solve the problem of getting the scale / encoder data in, that data would totally bypass the driver board.
[16:47:41] <Nick001-Shop> this keeps getting complicated -)
[16:47:57] <andypugh> Only because you don't know what you want to do, as far as I can tell.
[16:48:30] <Nick001-Shop> I could put it in through a parallel port but I don't know if it would be fast enough. Does this scale data appear the same as encoder data?
[16:48:45] <andypugh> If we know whether you wanted to use scales or encoders or neither then it would be easier.
[16:49:19] <andypugh> I have no idea about your scales. (I have very little idea about any scales)
[16:49:47] <Nick001-Shop> there are scales on the slides already, I just don't know if they work. If they don't I would go to encoders probably
[16:50:21] <andypugh> Parallel port probably wouldn't be fast enough. And it seems daft to use it when there is a 5i20 in the machine
[16:51:35] <andypugh> Encoders don't normally fit well with steppers, as it is not clear what you can do with the encoder information.
[16:51:43] <Nick001-Shop> then I would have to use one of mesa's encoder input cards along with the three axis driver card
[16:51:49] <andypugh> (other than detect a stalled motor)
[16:52:05] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: Yes
[16:52:29] <Nick001-Shop> I was under the impression that the encoder would allow a correction for a skipped step
[16:52:49] <pcw_home> The 7I32 is not supported by HostMot2 though it could be fairly easily
[16:52:49] <andypugh> In theory, maybe.
[16:53:25] <andypugh> In practice if you skip a step the motor tends to be near the limit, and trying to step more/faster isn't the answer.
[16:54:01] <andypugh> The 7i32 does have the advantage of encoder inputs.
[16:54:07] <pcw_home> You can use a stepmotor as a 2 phase servo (Thats what the 7I32 does) but it needs fast feedback (30 KHz sample rate minimum)
[16:55:19] <Nick001-Shop> how do I determine the sample rate
[16:55:21] <andypugh> That 30kHz between 5i20 and 7i32?
[16:55:35] <pcw_home> then you can't stall in stepmotor sense of the word
[16:55:36] <pcw_home> (because the phase of the applied power is always in sync with the rotor
[16:56:07] <pcw_home> just like a 2 phase BLDC
[16:58:49] <pcw_home> You can also use a normal ustepping step/dir drive with feedback to get higher accuracy
[16:58:51] <pcw_home> since you can "pull" the rotor this way and that against a load by varying the ustep
[17:00:17] <andypugh> I think we might be diverging from the point.
[17:00:25] <pcw_home> So its not totally useless to run a stepmotor/step/dir drive as a velocity mode servo
[17:00:26] <pcw_home> even with LinuxCNCs 1KHz servo thread but if you stall in this case. its all over
[17:01:18] <andypugh> I think Gabe is running a lot of velocity-mode stepper setups.
[17:02:00] <pcw_home> Anyway there is no 7I32 support currently it was made for SoftDMC
[17:02:01] <pcw_home> (which has up to 60 KHz servo loop)
[17:02:53] <pcw_home> velocity mode step/dir also makes sense with linear encoders
[17:03:08] <andypugh> Does the 7i33TA have individual enable pins?
[17:04:05] <andypugh> Going back to the self-pulsing stepper drives, they have speed on analogue voltage, but direction on a pin.
[17:05:16] <andypugh> So the HAL setup would need to "abs" the PID and set a direction pin.
[17:05:20] <pcw_home> it has individual enables bu the are only good as enables
[17:05:56] <andypugh> Why?
[17:06:15] <andypugh> They don't appear as individual pins in HAL?
[17:09:30] <pcw_home> The are wired to the analog output enables so if low, analog out = 0V
[17:10:04] <andypugh> Ah.
[17:10:23] <pcw_home> (single purpose)
[17:10:51] <andypugh> Is there any usable GPIO on a 7i33?
[17:12:18] <pcw_home> No 4x PWM+DIR+ENA = 12 and 4x A+B+Z = 12 so all 24 I/O used
[17:14:12] <andypugh> And all conditioned on the board so turning off functions to make GPIO pins won't work either?
[17:15:28] <pcw_home> Yep you lose the I/O universality as soon as you have a daughtercard
[17:16:06] <pcw_home> unless its just a protection/passthrough like the 7I42/7I75
[17:17:04] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: You need to work out what the output of the scales is. If it looks like quadrature signals then you can use those self-pulsing drives with a 7i3TA combined with a 7i37TA. You probably want the 7i37 anyway for the other general purpose IO like limit switches.
[17:17:15] <pcw_home> You could steal the TTL level DIR signal from FPGA card --> 7I33 cable
[17:18:57] <Nick001-Shop> 7i3TA?
[17:23:19] <JesusAlos> Please
[17:23:54] <JesusAlos> eny body can say a reference about directory structure of EMC2?
[17:33:41] <JesusAlos> Eny body?
[17:33:58] <JesusAlos> andypugh maybe?
[17:37:14] <cradek> JesusAlos: can you ask a more specific question?
[17:42:23] <JesusAlos> I need to know more about emc2
[17:42:39] <r00t4rd3d> he wants to know which source file contains the directory structure
[17:42:50] <JesusAlos> I want to know what each directory
[17:42:56] <JesusAlos> yes
[17:43:30] <JesusAlos> all directories involved
[17:45:54] <r00t4rd3d> JesusAlos, why do you want to know this? What are you trying to achieve?
[17:46:44] <JesusAlos> is just out of curiosity to know the structure using EMC2
[17:47:03] <JesusAlos> if one day you have to modify some of the program
[17:53:29] <JesusAlos> you know?
[17:57:42] <andypugh> It's not easy to answer.
[17:58:11] <JesusAlos> I know. Only need a reference literature
[17:58:16] <andypugh> I am not sure if you are even talking about the source code or the installed files.
[17:58:41] <JesusAlos> i refer the installed files
[18:00:07] <andypugh> Well, the machine configurations go in home/linuxcnc
[18:02:04] <JesusAlos> AndyPugh: do you have some manual or reference link?
[18:02:50] <andypugh> I don't think it is documented
[18:03:21] <andypugh> Well, the config files are.. I was talking about the executables and GUI files etc
[18:04:27] <andypugh> There are files in usr/bin sich as axis (which is a Python file, and can be edited)
[18:05:53] <andypugh> With support files in /usr/share/axis
[18:08:39] <JesusAlos> and what about lib/firmware ?
[18:21:00] <JesusAlos> sorry I disconected
[18:21:28] <JesusAlos> AndyPugh: I ask for /usr/share/doc dyrectory
[18:21:57] <JesusAlos> and /usr/share/doc
[18:22:07] <JesusAlos> and /lib/firmware/hm2
[18:50:51] <KimK> JesusAlos: I'm sure andypugh will be back in a while, he probably went to work in his shop. BTW, did you mean to ask about /usr/share/doc twice, or was that a typo?
[18:53:39] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Well, yes, the Mesa firmware goes there too.
[18:54:19] <andypugh> I am not the best-placed to say where all the files are, as I almost always have run-in-place systems compiled from source.
[19:02:26] <JesusAlos> KimK: It was a error
[19:04:39] <JesusAlos> EMC2 is programmed in Python language only?
[19:06:18] <andypugh> No, the majority is in C and C++
[19:07:37] <andypugh> Here it all is: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree
[19:08:25] <andypugh> (There is even a directory map, but that's the source code, not the executables)
[19:10:24] <andypugh> Hmm, interestingly that directory tree is massively out of date
[19:16:13] <JesusAlos> do you know wy EMC2 use 3 kind language programming?
[19:17:11] <andypugh> Because you can't write kernel drivers in Python, but you really don't want to be writing graphical user interfaces in C.
[19:19:49] <JesusAlos> and c++?
[19:23:46] <andypugh> For the middle stuff.
[19:24:23] <andypugh> It's harder to explain the TCL, and there is a User interace out there in freePascal.
[19:26:24] <andypugh> To a certain extent developers write in the language they know.
[19:26:44] <alex_joni> there was a java interface
[19:26:51] <alex_joni> and some perl scripts
[19:27:59] <alex_joni> I think there was even a html interface
[19:28:19] <andypugh> MiniEMC uses a web interface
[19:28:36] <andypugh> (that's the semi-embedded version from Russia)
[19:29:04] <andypugh> This is Free software, it's anarchy
[19:29:47] <alex_joni> mix it up ;)
[19:30:49] <JesusAlos> interesting miniemc
[19:31:29] <JesusAlos> maybe can use with raspberry pi
[19:34:09] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=18&id=20514
[19:44:12] <JesusAlos> Thank you newly AndyPugh and all people
[19:44:17] <JesusAlos> Good night
[19:44:49] <andypugh> Night
[19:53:17] <jdh> no smalltalk interface
[19:53:46] <andypugh> We need a GUI written in APL and HAL drivers in COBOL too.
[19:54:33] <jdh> I won $100 in a cobol programming contest once.
[19:54:57] <andypugh> I have a mate who wins about $100,000 a year from it
[19:56:45] <andypugh> I have only been paid to code in two languages, Sinclair BASIC and LabView.
[19:57:09] <jdh> US dollars?
[19:57:34] <andypugh> Well, he is paid in UK £ bit he is moderately well paid
[19:57:54] <jdh> could do better than $100k probably
[19:58:05] <andypugh> (I think both surviving COBOL programmers are)
[19:59:01] <jdh> I know one who contracts through IBM. She works for a few months, they pay all expenses, then she lives in north florida and dives for 6 or 8 months then repeats
[19:59:42] <andypugh> That sounds awful for her :-)
[20:00:02] <jdh> she is one of the weirdest people I've met.
[20:00:13] <andypugh> I don't suppose she cute and gullible as well as rich?
[20:00:35] <jdh> 60 or so and male like.
[20:01:33] <andypugh> Must be a COBOL thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
[20:02:25] <jdh> I did pdp-11 macro today for while today. Turned out the real problem was worn out brushes in a DC motor.
[20:04:18] <andypugh> I was using a PDP-11 at work 3 years ago, but they retired them last year.
[20:04:50] <Tom_itx> you mean you dont get paid to write mesa drivers??
[20:04:52] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:05:29] <jdh> I'm down to two. When Maint/etc gets stuck, they say "must be a computer problem"
[20:05:42] <andypugh> I don't get paid to do anything LinuxCNC related and strenuously avoid any offers to do so.
[21:22:34] <r00t4rd3d> fresh off the press : http://imgur.com/a/s3LXJ
[21:22:54] <jdh> are those pine trees?
[21:22:58] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[21:23:10] <jdh> imagine the size of the duck poop flying overhead!
[21:23:38] <jdh> looks cool. I wish I could get enthused about cutting something like that.
[21:23:50] <jdh> but, I'd have to clean off my router
[21:24:20] <r00t4rd3d> 50 bucks enthuses me.
[21:24:28] <jdh> yeah, that might do it.
[21:24:38] <r00t4rd3d> and they are getting 2 more
[21:27:08] <r00t4rd3d> fu
[21:27:39] <r00t4rd3d> its a loon
[21:28:07] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/PHOTO/LARGE/common_loon_joshmerril.jpg
[21:28:18] <jdh> that was my next guess.
[21:29:00] <r00t4rd3d> the only bird you know is attached to your hand
[21:29:46] <jdh> that's not true.
[21:30:31] <r00t4rd3d> this school teacher I know is selling mad shit of mine at her school
[21:30:59] <jdh> got any craft show things up there?
[21:31:12] <r00t4rd3d> i was invited to one in November
[21:31:24] <jdh> you are in NY somewhere?
[21:31:33] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[21:32:01] <jdh> my aunt lives in some artsy place up there. naples?
[21:32:17] <r00t4rd3d> not near me
[21:32:27] <jdh> she's a whackjob... guess it make her happy though.
[21:33:15] <r00t4rd3d> is she single?
[21:33:59] <jdh> no, probably will be soon though. Her husband is pretty old
[21:34:26] <jdh> if you have a thing for old starving artists, I can hook you up in a year or two.
[21:35:44] <r00t4rd3d> filthy rich maybe...
[21:35:55] <jdh> heh... she is an 'artist'
[21:42:59] <andypugh> Some artists are really quite well off.
[21:43:09] <jdh> yeah, they are probably good though.
[21:45:20] <jdh> she does mostly metal sculpture stuff. I think it looks cool, but not really much to make a living at, especially in naples, ny
[21:46:51] <andypugh> I think Tracy Emin is pretty well off, and her stuff is horrible.