#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-15

[00:15:09] <r00t4rd3d> the space jumpers test flight:
[00:15:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/E00nl.gif
[00:16:36] <r00t4rd3d> This is a good pic, guy on the left set the world record in 1960 and the guy on the right didnt beat that today.
[00:16:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/thjAO.jpg
[00:19:06] <psha[work]> r00t4rd3d: as i understand point was to beat speed record, not freefall time
[00:22:54] <r00t4rd3d> seems like they wanted to beat all the records
[00:23:02] <r00t4rd3d> speed, height, ff time
[00:25:12] <r00t4rd3d> if the door didnt stick he probably would have got the FF time record
[02:10:07] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:33:23] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:22:59] <mazafaka> Damn g91 have messed me a detail a little, Loetmichel
[05:24:41] <mazafaka> had to divide preprogrammed code into two parts beacause of the way the plate is clamped, and there was human-unreadable code/// So, at the end of the day I'll go back and work couple of hours...
[05:26:12] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: how's your trials bike?
[05:32:56] <mazafaka> and the bosses walk around and take a look onto the watch, like, oh, come on, we're already more far, by 2 minutes and 30 seconds, let's get somewhat like 4 minutes faster by the end of the day...
[06:57:40] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[06:58:11] <IchGuckLive> Someone Knows if there are Reducers to fit a ER32 coller chuck into a ER20
[06:58:35] <IchGuckLive> it sounds whear
[06:58:54] <IchGuckLive> as a standard strait zylindric ER32 is 1"
[06:59:18] <IchGuckLive> 25mm and the ER20 fits only 13mm
[06:59:25] <IchGuckLive> thats half that
[07:00:12] <archivist> seems a bit silly to want to do that
[07:00:32] <IchGuckLive> im milling Foam at 8k Rpm
[07:00:44] <IchGuckLive> whoudt be good to get a bigger tool
[07:01:18] <archivist> make tooling as required
[07:01:51] <archivist> but at speed one needs to balance the tooling
[07:02:39] <IchGuckLive> therfor i woudt not do this on my lathe
[07:02:50] <IchGuckLive> whoudt be good to get a reducer
[07:03:40] <pilla_> Hi all!
[07:05:18] <IchGuckLive> pilla_: B)
[07:05:57] <pilla_> installing PCB2gcode is a pain in the *** :(
[07:08:16] <IchGuckLive> why
[07:08:23] <IchGuckLive> eagle in use
[07:10:19] <IchGuckLive> pilla_: http://www.pcbgcode.org/
[07:10:32] <IchGuckLive> this works great on eagle
[07:12:16] <pilla_> I don't use Eagle, need it to run standalone
[07:12:20] <pilla_> but it doesn't install at all
[07:14:16] <pilla_> I guess I could also just install Eagle, open the files I need converted, save as new file, and then open that file in linuxCNC?
[07:15:40] <cpresser> pilla_: what format are your source-files?
[07:16:26] <dimas> pilla_, hi, tried to compile pcb2gcode, same result - no errors, no binary
[07:16:31] <pilla_> downloaded it as tar.gz package, file are .c and .o, followed the readme (configure, sudo make install etc)
[07:16:36] <pilla_> Thanks, dimas
[07:16:43] <pilla_> At least I'm not alone :P
[07:16:55] <dimas> :)
[07:21:00] <pilla_> Really appreciated. :)
[07:22:27] <cpresser> why dont you guys use the ready-build-packages?
[07:22:38] <cpresser> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/pcb2gcode
[07:22:56] <pilla_> I'm on lucid
[07:23:23] <cpresser> get the source-package
[07:23:30] <cpresser> and use dpkg-buildpackage
[07:23:36] <cpresser> (eg create your own backport)
[07:25:27] <pilla_> I'm getting a dependency error
[07:25:50] <Jymmm> cradek: jepler SWPadnos Interactive Math http://www.intmath.com/
[07:29:42] <cpresser> pilla_: resolve it :) "apt-get build-dep"
[07:34:40] <pilla_> error: dependency is not satisfiable: libboost-program-options1.46.1-1
[07:34:42] <pilla_> derp
[07:36:30] <cpresser> pilla_: option1: resolve that dependeny manually (eg download the source package and build it). or option2: change the control-file
[07:39:59] <mrsun> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDn3-9jP0Sw&feature=plcp haha what a cute mill =)
[07:40:54] <IchGuckLive> mrsun: it is a stable one
[07:41:03] <IchGuckLive> this can mill harden steel
[07:41:16] <IchGuckLive> toll the toolbreak
[07:41:20] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[07:41:22] <mrsun> huh ?
[07:41:24] <IchGuckLive> im off
[07:49:46] <pilla_> cpresser: dunno how to do either option ^^'
[07:50:25] <cpresser> pilla_: just take a look at the files in the debian directory (serach for libboost)
[07:51:30] <pilla_> the newer version depend on the BOOST package, and I can't upgrade that package on lucid
[07:51:43] <pilla_> or at least, that's what I think ^^
[07:53:55] <cpresser> try to compile it with an older boost-version. it might work
[07:54:10] <cpresser> or try to get an older source-code of pcb2gcode
[07:54:28] <cpresser> sorry, i cant point you a way that works for sure, you will have to tinker a little
[07:54:43] <pilla_> ;) thanks anyways
[07:54:58] <pilla_> does linuxCNC work on Precise, or something newer than Lucid?
[07:56:01] <r00t4rd3d> it will work on anything if you can get the kernel patched with the real time stuff
[07:58:50] <mhaberler> pilla: what is your issue with boost? sudo apt-get install libboost-python-dev
[07:59:10] <r00t4rd3d> I really suprised no one has remastered a live cd with 12.04/2.5.1
[07:59:20] <jdh> they thought you were doing it
[07:59:37] <r00t4rd3d> i could
[07:59:42] <pilla_> I'd love such a cd
[08:00:18] <pilla_> mmm, it wasnt installed
[08:00:51] <mhaberler> see here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC
[08:01:40] <cpresser> most people dont need 'new software' on their CNC-Computers
[08:02:38] <r00t4rd3d> true but also most people dont like "old software" on their computers either.
[08:03:19] <pilla_> pcb2gcode 1.1.2-1 doen't work either
[08:04:50] <pilla_> is there another standalone program that converts excellon drill files to gcode?
[08:11:09] <maximilian_h> i am trying to get a gantry configuration going
[08:11:18] <maximilian_h> starting from a trivkins configuration
[08:11:29] <r00t4rd3d> cradek, http://www.special-time.co.uk/giant.htm
[08:11:31] <maximilian_h> but when I substitute loadrt trivkins
[08:11:43] <maximilian_h> with loadrt gantrykins=XYC
[08:11:55] <maximilian_h> then my C axis won't home anymore
[08:12:15] <maximilian_h> I have not yet used the second X axis
[08:12:29] <maximilian_h> my target will be a XXYC configuration
[08:12:41] <maximilian_h> but small steps first
[08:13:20] <maximilian_h> anybody has any idea on why the change from trivkins to gantrykins with the same configuration otherwise "breaks" the C axis setup ?
[08:13:42] <maximilian_h> the assigment to joints is the same
[08:14:10] <maximilian_h> [267859.271975] GANTRYKINS: joints[0] = 0
[08:14:10] <maximilian_h> [267859.271980] GANTRYKINS: joints[1] = 1
[08:14:10] <maximilian_h> [267859.271982] GANTRYKINS: joints[2] = 5
[08:14:10] <maximilian_h> [267859.271984] GANTRYKINS: joints[3] = -1
[08:14:10] <maximilian_h> [267859.271987] GANTRYKINS: joints[4] = -1
[08:14:11] <maximilian_h> [267859.271989] GANTRYKINS: joints[5] = -1
[08:14:11] <maximilian_h> [267859.271991] GANTRYKINS: joints[6] = -1
[08:14:12] <maximilian_h> [267859.271993] GANTRYKINS: joints[7] = -1
[08:14:12] <maximilian_h> [267859.271996] GANTRYKINS: joints[8] = -1
[08:14:13] <maximilian_h> ?
[08:17:36] <maximilian_h> And I think there is a small documentation error in the integrator's manual
[08:17:45] <maximilian_h> in section 3.2.9 [TRAJ] Section
[08:18:14] <maximilian_h> the current text says:
[08:18:16] <maximilian_h> COORDINATES = X Y Z - The names of the axes being controlled. Only X, Y, Z, A, B, C, U, V, W are valid. Only axes named
[08:18:16] <maximilian_h> in COORDINATES are accepted in g-code. This has no effect on the mapping from G-code axis names (X- Y- Z-) to joint
[08:18:16] <maximilian_h> numbers—for trivial kinematics, X is always joint 0, A is always joint 4, and U is always joint 7, and so on. It is permitted to
[08:18:16] <maximilian_h> write an axis name twice (e.g., X Y Y Z for a gantry machine) but this has no effect.
[08:18:49] <maximilian_h> however, if "X is always joint 0" then the count starts at 0
[08:19:03] <maximilian_h> then the statement:
[08:19:32] <maximilian_h> A is always joint 4 is wrong, it should read: "A is always joint 3", should it not ?
[08:19:53] <maximilian_h> And the same goes for "U is always joint 7", which should be "U is always joint 6"
[08:19:56] <maximilian_h> ?
[08:33:20] <pilla_> ...if you have a recent version of Altium, you can insta-export to G-code with a script. Shoulda known that earlier. XD
[08:56:47] <jthornton> maximilian_h, thanks for the doc bug... it is fixed
[08:57:22] <maximilian_h> jthornton: thanks for the feedback
[08:57:58] <maximilian_h> you don't happen to be versed in the art of gantry configurations ?
[08:58:31] <jthornton> I've not done one in real life yet but have done one in sim
[08:58:57] <maximilian_h> with or without an angular axis ?
[08:59:16] <maximilian_h> because I cannot get my C axis to work right
[08:59:47] <jthornton> it was just a simple gantry with two stepgens for the gantry axis
[08:59:48] <maximilian_h> and I know that it is mechanially and electrially done right, because it works in a trivkins configuration
[09:41:42] <pilla_> can linuxcnc open .mdt files?
[09:45:54] <mazafaka> if it's a file with g-code, you can add file extension into some configuring LinuxCNC file, I don't know which one...
[09:49:30] <elmo40> .cnc? .nc? .gc ? .txt?
[09:49:52] <elmo40> linuxcnc will use anything, I am sure ;)
[09:54:40] <jthornton> mazafaka, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_filter_section_a_id_sub_filter_section_a
[10:03:48] <pilla_> :( thing converts altium files to .mdt and .rpt, but linuxCNC doesn't take that
[10:09:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eMIyiddPZQI
[10:17:30] <mazafaka> elmo40: pilla_ asked about .mdt file extnsion
[10:25:27] <pcw_home> .mdt looks like a Microsoft Access database file FWIW
[10:27:06] <pcw_home> or maybe solidworks MechanicalDesktop files
[10:31:33] <pcw_home> sorry AutoCAD Mechanical Desktop
[10:33:28] <pilla_> bah I really want to open files generated by altium on linuxcnc, but almost everything I try is failing
[10:34:11] <jthornton> what is altium?
[10:34:16] <pcw_home> not too surprising since Altium is not a CAM program
[10:34:20] <archivist> pilla_, output as gerber then some pcbgerber to gcode program
[10:34:57] <pilla_> could you point me to a nice, working program? :)
[10:34:58] <archivist> PCB design package
[10:36:01] <pcw_home> google gerber gcode
[10:45:20] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/232031
[10:49:36] <archivist> JT-Shop, 5/16 NS :)
[10:50:21] <archivist> and all the other thread forms and series
[10:53:51] <JT-Shop> archivist: ?
[10:54:43] <archivist> are you thinking there are only american threads :)
[10:55:24] <JT-Shop> no such thoughts, but I just got the database select query to work when selecting a tap
[10:55:36] <archivist> NS was a new one on me a couple of weeks ago when I did some grease nipples
[10:56:56] <JT-Shop> my thoughts are to have radio buttons to select the tap series you wish then you select a tap from the series list and it will pick all the drill bits and show the thread percentage of each drill
[10:57:10] <archivist> a surprise considering I had been collecting thread documents over the years
[10:57:27] <JT-Shop> also some check boxes to limit the drill series
[10:58:23] <JT-Shop> for example if you limited to metric drills why show the rest
[10:59:12] <JT-Shop> so far I have the drills from 0.3mm to 1" in the database but only two taps lol
[10:59:20] <archivist> I keep letter,metric and imperial drills, so have choices
[10:59:29] <JT-Shop> exactly
[10:59:57] <JT-Shop> the biggest hurdle was getting the database part to work
[11:00:16] <JT-Shop> opps I see a screw up
[11:01:37] <JT-Shop> tjb1: looking good
[11:02:01] <tjb1> What are you using for cam again?
[11:02:16] <JT-Shop> gedit
[11:02:33] <JT-Shop> sheet cam
[11:02:42] <tjb1> Im not too happy with sheetcam
[11:05:25] <tjb1> It needs a hole overcut feature and its been requested since 2010 and nothing...
[11:06:13] <JT-Shop> hole overcut?
[11:06:31] <tjb1> To cut past the lead in
[11:06:54] <JT-Shop> I'm not following you
[11:07:17] <tjb1> The lead in on the hole, it needs a feature to go past the lead in when it does the lead out
[11:07:29] <tjb1> Over 360*
[11:07:37] <JT-Shop> oh, like 365 degrees
[11:07:42] <tjb1> Yeah
[11:08:12] <tjb1> Or even something like how many degrees so you could cut the circle twice or something
[11:08:43] <tjb1> I wonder if doing the circle twice would eliminate the bottom taper?
[11:09:31] <JT-Shop> bottom taper is a result of using a plasma
[11:09:40] <JT-Shop> same as side taper
[11:10:13] <JT-Shop> are you cutting at the optimum speed or the max speed?
[11:10:51] <tjb1> I did about 60% of speed for the holes
[11:11:09] <JT-Shop> 60% of max or optimum?
[11:11:11] <tjb1> And I meant if it cut it twice I wonder if the 2nd pass would take the taper mostly out
[11:11:13] <tjb1> optimum
[11:12:25] <JT-Shop> consumables are new?
[11:12:51] <tjb1> Yep, I dont have the machine shield yet though
[11:13:02] <tjb1> Jim Colt said the machine shield increases the density of the arc
[11:13:22] <JT-Shop> he is the man!
[11:14:38] <tjb1> Yep, great guy. Gave me the part numbers for the cnc connector for free
[12:08:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/G1ATT.jpg
[12:26:43] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: according to this photo, you have changed your lifestyle greatly
[12:29:00] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:32:32] <JT-Shop> linuxcnc.org seems to be down for me
[12:33:18] <DJ9DJ> hi
[12:35:13] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: here 2
[12:35:25] <awallin> JT-Shop: yeah website doesn't respond for me either
[12:35:46] <mazafaka> What would you guys use under MS Windows to create G-code from DXF?
[12:36:03] <mazafaka> I mean freeware
[12:38:17] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: Heekscad
[12:38:45] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: http://code.google.com/p/heekscnc/downloads/list
[12:39:15] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: i got alot of tutorials for it in my channel
[12:41:00] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBXlJj45rE
[12:41:59] <IchGuckLive> whow 11.ooo+ hits
[12:42:04] <mazafaka> IchGuckLive: I know HeeksCNC, but does it work correctly in MS Windows? Do I need to install Python-x.x.x.exe into Windows?
[12:42:37] <IchGuckLive> it works better on MS then on ubuntu
[12:42:47] <IchGuckLive> use the packet
[12:42:49] <mazafaka> Then it's OK
[12:42:53] <IchGuckLive> there is an EXE
[12:43:01] <IchGuckLive> use CNC not the CAD
[12:44:14] <mazafaka> I know, I used it in Ubuntu
[12:56:01] <andypugh> archivist: Did that wierdo get in touch?
[12:56:22] * archivist looks at his email
[12:57:34] <archivist> no wierdos except for the usual boner adverts in spam :)
[12:58:55] <andypugh> If you look at my hobbing video you can see his comment there. I guess you could get in touch directly.
[13:00:23] <archivist> remind me of your channel name
[13:02:07] <archivist> the vesper bloke
[13:02:37] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4&feature=share&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ
[13:03:38] <archivist> just jumped to his generators !
[13:04:48] <archivist> I have to reboot firefox as the video viewer crashes
[13:11:23] <archivist> while I wait for firefox, Midlands Model Engineer EX 17th to21st oct
[13:11:36] <andypugh> Not knowing what a "Bedini Platform" was, I searched and foiund: http://amasci.com/freenrg/bedini.html
[13:12:10] <andypugh> Hmm, is Linuxcng.org down?
[13:12:29] <andypugh> Well, that is always down. But how about linuxcnc?
[13:17:35] <archivist> well looking at one vid, seems somewhat unscientific, hand led coils!
[13:18:27] <andypugh> I have no idea what it is all about to be honest.
[13:18:53] <andypugh> As for the model exhibition, it would probably be interesting but I need a bit of time at home.
[13:20:05] <archivist> he is not controlling his air gap properly
[13:24:24] <pcw_home> The weather glass is nice (though a much nicer material is elemental iodine)
[13:26:49] <andypugh> I think I missed some context.
[13:27:08] <pcw_home> temperature deltas of a small fraction of a degree with change the
[13:27:10] <pcw_home> sublimation/crystallization equilibrium so you get an endless changing
[13:27:12] <pcw_home> pattern or iodine crystals on the glass
[13:27:24] <IchGuckLive> im off
[13:27:29] <IchGuckLive> By
[13:27:48] <archivist> andypugh, for his coil test he shows his drive motor at constant power yes shows variable output, phail, I think I will let him chase me :)
[13:27:59] <pcw_home> I was looking at the other stuff on the bedini webpage
[13:28:03] <cradek> andypugh: I got a "host key is changed" 50 mins ago, but now that error is gone. so they are apparently working on it, possibly ineptly.
[13:28:25] <andypugh> AH, OK.
[13:28:46] <andypugh> archivist: Anyone that gullible ought to be a perfect customer :-)
[13:29:05] <archivist> hehe
[13:29:17] <pcw_home> If he buys that he'll buy anything?
[13:29:37] <archivist> I still have a few scruples, just cannot get rid
[13:31:21] <skunkworks> heh - free power.
[13:31:29] <skunkworks> isn't that was solar is?
[13:31:31] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:31:56] <archivist> solar...but the panels cost more than you gain
[13:32:22] <skunkworks> I think the device that he is showing will probably cost a pretty penny..
[13:34:02] <archivist> magnets do seem to gather the intellectually challenged
[13:34:37] <pcw_home> The dropping price of solar cells (well maybe Chinese subsidized ones) have put a lot of other solar projects out of business
[13:35:11] <andypugh> Magnets and gyroscopes are a potent mix.
[13:36:45] <LXLathe> hi @ all. I have a quick question. I added a custom .c file to the source but it is ignored during building. I have called configure and the make. what do I d wrong?
[13:36:49] <archivist> anyway, where is the lid to my Sheffield Gages seems to be hiding
[13:36:59] <pcw_home> both rather magic (what do gyroscopes point at?)
[13:37:50] <pcw_home> http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/
[13:37:52] <andypugh> LXLathe: If it's a plain C file then it needs to be added to the makefile.
[13:38:09] <cradek> LXLathe: you need to tell make about it by editing Makefile/Submakefile and we need more information to help you figure out exactly how
[13:38:09] <LXLathe> thx. and how do I do that?
[13:38:26] <cradek> tell us what you are doing
[13:38:30] <andypugh> What sort of file is it? (ie, what does it do?)
[13:38:32] <LXLathe> ok its a file in hal/user_comps
[13:38:48] <LXLathe> its a interface to a variable frequency drive
[13:39:13] <andypugh> OK. Firstly you do realise that user_comps means "userspace" not "of the user"? I only ask as it confused me for months.
[13:39:21] <LXLathe> a slight modification of gs2_vfd.c
[13:39:47] <andypugh> You can install that with "comp" without doing a full compile.
[13:40:19] <andypugh> comp --install src/hal/user_comps/gs3_vfd.c
[13:40:28] <cradek> otherwise, see how gs2_vfd.c is built in that directory's Submakefile
[13:42:18] <LXLathe> thank you very much I think that helped. I will try it out
[13:42:29] <mrsun> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoVTlazsizU&feature=plcp omg =)
[13:42:31] <mrsun> dangerous piece :P
[13:43:30] <awallin> not a whole lot of clearance there..
[13:44:06] <mrsun> nop and he realy ramps up the rpm also :P
[13:48:40] <andypugh> 200rpm probably wasn't far off for the diameter to be machined, but did seem a bit much for the out-of-balance.
[13:52:02] <mrsun> yeah
[13:52:10] <cradek> this brings back bad memories of repairing a jeep's front wheel bearing that locked and spun
[13:52:22] <cradek> lots of angle grinder work :-/
[13:55:19] <cradek> that 2mm clearance is pure luck
[13:55:58] <mrsun> =)
[13:56:05] <pcw_home> I wonder how well its concentric and on axis (whats the reference?)
[13:56:14] <mrsun> an inside bore
[13:56:27] <mrsun> he turned a thick shaft that goes inside
[13:56:30] <cradek> he turned the arbor in place and never unmounted it
[13:56:43] <mrsun> arbore
[13:56:44] <cradek> he must've made the "nut" first
[13:56:45] <mrsun> arbor
[13:56:47] <mrsun> yes thats the name =)
[13:56:49] <cradek> very clever
[13:57:27] <mrsun> i love videos like that gives alot of ideas on how to do stuff so i wont have to figure everything out myself :P
[13:57:30] <andypugh> I think it's admirable work.
[13:58:17] <andypugh> It would be much easier with a boring head on a mill though. (and easier still with HBM)
[13:58:39] <pcw_home> It is (especially in this throw-away age)
[14:10:31] <archivist> you can buy/make http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Expanding-Mandrels for mounting to an existing hole too
[14:11:02] <andypugh> And I have :-)
[14:11:32] <andypugh> (The one I did expanded through tailstock action, IIRC)
[14:11:46] <archivist> I also turn a slight taper so the item is a tight fit
[14:12:04] <archivist> for turned mandrels
[14:12:57] <andypugh> 5C expanding collets are fun. I tried to design an ER32 variant, with limited success.
[14:13:41] <archivist> and no reason you cannot do the inverse, wooden chuck to push a gear into the recess and turn the bore
[14:14:31] <archivist> a regular job when re bushing clock spring barrels
[14:24:21] <cradek> it's nice that wood swells when wetted. I've used that for holding work for light cutting.
[14:26:48] <archivist> I tend to go for about .1mm interference, never wetted yet
[14:33:41] <tjb1> 6'x10' 12 gauge sheet metal ordered :D
[14:55:18] <Connor> tjb1: What you making ?
[14:55:40] <tjb1> water table
[14:55:45] <Connor> Ah
[14:56:24] <tjb1> Yeah…expensive water table
[15:09:31] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm getting "403 Forbidden error" when I try to get to linuxcnc.org. Is something up or is it me?
[15:09:53] <cradek> dreamhost has been broken off and on for 5+ hours
[15:10:58] <Kirk_Wallace> Okay, thanks. I guess I'll have to wait.
[15:11:12] <cradek> :-/
[15:43:00] <ilias_> hello
[15:43:47] <ilias_> i am a bit confused about a hal configuration for servo motors
[15:44:32] <ilias_> the servo motor has a servo drive, which accepts position commands
[15:44:49] <ilias_> I use 7i77 for analog out
[15:45:11] <ilias_> do I need to use PID?
[15:47:02] <jthornton> position commands or velocity command?
[15:47:24] <jthornton> like step and direction position commands?
[15:48:19] <ilias_> the analog value is translated by the the drive as position
[15:48:37] <cradek> that makes no sense and/or is impossible
[15:49:02] <jthornton> :)
[15:49:05] <ilias_> example... 10V is far right
[15:49:08] <cradek> or maybe it's a totally wrong kind of drive for cnc?
[15:49:12] <ilias_> 0V is far left
[15:49:18] <cradek> is there a more suitable mode you can put it in?
[15:49:22] <mozmck> sounds like an R/C servo
[15:50:44] <cradek> yes at some level - but usually those are some kind of pulse width thing
[15:51:10] <ilias_> so apart from the motion rt component
[15:51:35] <ilias_> i need either PID or steper?
[15:51:57] <cradek> ilias_: have a pointer to docs for your drive?
[15:52:48] <ilias_> I can't find at the internet... old OSS 200 allen bradley
[15:54:33] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/232071
[15:54:55] <jthornton> made a little progress today
[15:56:32] <ilias_> it's either allen bradley or osai
[15:56:56] <ilias_> both companies seem to manufacture these models
[15:58:52] <archivist> did you google oss 200 manual download
[16:01:30] <ilias_> anyway... if i load just the motion component and assign signals for axis.N.motor-pos-cmd
[16:01:45] <archivist> seems to have many modes of operation
[16:01:57] <ilias_> and axis.N.motor-pos-fb
[16:02:18] <ilias_> the pos-cmd gets the value of pos-fb...
[16:02:56] <ilias_> yes i googled but i couldn't find anything...
[16:03:02] <ilias_> i have hard copies
[16:03:20] <archivist> I did, got the pdf
[16:03:42] <ilias_> link?
[16:06:03] <archivist> OSS 200 servp manual download
[16:06:08] <archivist> servo
[16:06:23] <archivist> first link
[16:07:01] <tjb1> jthornton: You awake?
[16:07:51] <ilias_> hmm...well that's embarassing....!!
[16:07:57] <ilias_> thank you very much
[16:08:00] <ilias_> .
[16:09:09] <ilias_> I need to make clear something. having loaded trivkins, motmod and some other components
[16:10:23] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:10:41] <ilias_> and setting signals to assign the motor-pos-command to analog-out and encoder-in tomotor-pos-fb
[16:10:53] <tjb1> Anyone besides JT use sheetcam in here?
[16:11:10] <mrsun> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JowYCF4zQW4&feature=plcp nice machine but that isnt realy a good insert for machining stuff like that is it? :P
[16:11:42] <JT-Shop> andy does
[16:11:57] <ilias_> , will the feedback be fed to the motor-pos-cmd?
[16:12:24] <tjb1> JT! Could you upload a post for me? :)
[16:12:36] <tjb1> I have peppermint candy!
[16:12:38] <JT-Shop> I thought I did the other day
[16:13:11] <JT-Shop> aww crap I have to reboot my network
[16:13:15] <JT-Shop> bbib
[16:14:28] <ilias_> the manual is for the ultra model, mine is the simple one
[16:15:57] <tjb1> I found it on gnipsel, JT-Shop-2
[16:17:06] <JT-Shop> I thought I loaded it to somewhere
[16:17:26] <tjb1> There a guide they offer on how the post works or is it gonna be a edit, repost and find out what happened kind of thing?
[16:18:10] <JT-Shop> look in your post directory for the readme or manual
[16:18:25] <tjb1> Guess im installing linux tonight :P
[16:20:16] <andypugh> ilias_: I think that the voltage outputs on the 7i77 are 12 bits. So you have 4096 possible positions that you can send. I think you might find that is too coarse.
[16:21:17] <JT-Shop> tjb1: I scored a 40 gallon tank for my plasma table
[16:21:35] <tjb1> Water storage for the water table?
[16:22:57] <tjb1> Does LinuxCNC actually use 8gb of HDD space?
[16:23:21] <andypugh> No
[16:23:56] <andypugh> In fact you can fit all of Ububtu, LinuxCNC and the source code + dev system in 4GB
[16:24:12] <ilias_> this is not what i meant. I meant that the output of the motion controller, the motor-pos-cmd is always equal to the motor-pos-fb...
[16:25:14] <ilias_> is this happening because the motion component doesn't receive any commands from PID?
[16:25:35] <ilias_> I haven't loaded PID
[16:26:16] <JT-Shop> tjb1: yes
[16:27:13] <tjb1> JT-Shop: I just ordered the steel for my water table today. 6'x10' 12 gauge
[16:28:30] <tjb1> Alright, thanks andypugh…my 120gb ssd is getting a little cramp with os x, windows 7 and now ubuntu
[16:29:04] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Are you using a antifreeze mixture in your table?
[16:29:16] <JT-Shop> no
[16:29:46] <JT-Shop> sodium nitrite and physan 20
[16:30:15] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/10/a-big-addition
[16:30:25] <andypugh> ilias_: If there is no feedback back from the drive, then that seems like the way it will have to be,
[16:30:39] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Just to prevent algae and other stuff?
[16:30:47] <andypugh> With no PID there is no point having feedback anyway.
[16:33:00] <ilias_> there is feedback. whatever the value of the feedback is it gets assigned to the motor-pos-cmd. so the motor moves, therefore the feedback increases, and the motor-pos-cmd increases, and so on.
[16:33:40] <andypugh> That sounds wrong.
[16:33:46] <ilias_> until I get a following error and motion stops.
[16:34:02] <andypugh> The feedback is from an encoder?
[16:34:10] <ilias_> I don't understand why this is happening
[16:34:47] <JT-Shop> tjb1: the pysan prevents algae and the sodium nitrite prevents rusting
[16:34:50] <ilias_> the motor feedback goes to the drive and the drive transmits it to the 7i77 encoder in
[16:35:24] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Ill probably still use the antifreeze so it doesnt freeze up here in the winter
[16:36:19] <andypugh> ilias_: And then the encoder input is netted to motor-position-fb?
[16:36:47] <ilias_> yes
[16:38:08] <andypugh> Is this a conventional cartesian machine?
[16:38:14] <ilias_> yes
[16:38:17] <ilias_> trivkins
[16:38:45] <andypugh> What happens of you negate the encoder scale?
[16:39:18] <andypugh> What you describe would be normal if there was a PID. But you say you don't have one?
[16:40:15] <tjb1> JT-Shop: This might apply to you - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/plasma_edm_other_similar_machine/120043-plasma_quench_alternatives.html#post935798
[16:42:00] <ilias_> what i did was that by changing the motor-offset value the motion was changing direction
[16:42:37] <ilias_> no I don't have pid
[16:43:57] <andypugh> There might be some sort of feedback loop through kinematics. (possibly accidental).
[16:44:23] <andypugh> What happens if you just comment out the feedback net?
[16:45:30] <ilias_> it reports that there is no feedback, or something similar I can't remember
[16:45:35] <ilias_> but the machine again stops
[16:46:02] <ilias_> in the developer manual, in the block diagram of the joint controller
[16:47:19] <ilias_> there is a line directly connecting the feedback to command... so i guess that could be the reason...
[16:47:32] <andypugh> Sorry, yes, that was a daft suggestion.
[16:48:02] <andypugh> Connecting feedback direct to command, and ignoring the encoder values for the moment was what I should have suggested.
[16:48:38] <ilias_> yes, i see what you mean
[16:48:57] <ilias_> after all i tried this as well, so that makes two of us
[16:49:32] <andypugh> A very simple test. Exit LinuxCNC. Open a terminal.
[16:51:48] <andypugh> taking // to mean return/newline/enter. halrun // loadrt hostmot2 // loadrt hm2_pci // loadrt threads // addf hm2_5i25.0.read thread1 // loadrt hm2_5i25.0.write thread1 // addf hme2_5i25.0.pet-watchdog thread1 // start // setp hm2_5i23.0.7i77.0.1.analogout-01 0.1
[16:52:37] <andypugh> You can use tab-completion to gloss over most of the typos I inserted there. Other than the loadrt …. write which should be addf.
[16:56:05] <ilias_> I am not near the machine at the moment but i wrote down the commands...
[16:56:55] <ilias_> this should be working, because the axis is moving with the current configuration and with the current output
[16:57:41] <andypugh> It sometimes helps to remove as much of the puzzle as possible. That final setp command should send voltage information directly out of the 7i77 to the drive. Then you can see if the drive is behaving as expected.
[16:57:51] <ilias_> is there a way to check the command from kinematics to the motion/joint controller?
[16:58:31] <andypugh> Not really, once the stuff is out of HAL it becomes largely invisible.
[16:59:04] <andypugh> (You could add HAL oins to trivkins and recompile, of course)
[16:59:12] <andypugh> (HAL pins)
[16:59:33] <ilias_> recompile linuxcnc???
[16:59:53] <ilias_> or construct a component?
[17:01:06] <ilias_> anyway. tomorrow i will have my hal fie with me
[17:02:33] <ilias_> one last question. In the developer's manual in page 13, the block diagram of the joint controller can be seen
[17:04:04] <andypugh> I have never read the PDF / Paper manuals. All I know I got from directed searches on the online docs.
[17:04:26] <ilias_> I haven't checked the code yet, but if the block diagram is accurate the feedback is added to the command whether we have input from kinematics or not
[17:04:52] <ilias_> if this is the case then this would explain the behavior.
[17:04:58] <andypugh> Link?
[17:05:29] <ilias_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/documentation
[17:05:42] <ilias_> oops sorry
[17:05:56] <ilias_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Developer_Manual.pdf
[17:06:25] <andypugh> Do you mean this diagram: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/code/Code_Notes.html#_block_diagrams_and_data_flow
[17:06:42] <ilias_> yes
[17:07:10] <andypugh> That shows the sum of the motor offset and backlash compensation being added to command and subtracted from feedback
[17:07:59] <ilias_> and then added to motor-pos-cmd
[17:08:13] <andypugh> No.
[17:08:13] <ilias_> yes yes
[17:08:18] <ilias_> ?
[17:08:55] <ilias_> aa yes
[17:08:55] <andypugh> Motor-pos-fb goes into the block on the top right, has the offsets subtracted, and exits top left.
[17:09:00] <ilias_> i see what you mean
[17:09:17] <andypugh> The arrow heads could be bigger.
[17:10:12] <tjb1> Is 24 guage wire, 7 strands at .2mm good enough for continuous flex application?
[17:11:03] <andypugh> tjb1: I would guess not. But there are more reliable sources of information than my guesses.
[17:13:17] <tjb1> Guess if it doesnt work out I am still ok…paid $.24 a foot for it shipped
[17:13:39] <tjb1> McMaster is $.70 a foot for continuous flex cable
[17:13:40] <andypugh> If you have it, worry about it when and if it breaks.
[17:13:40] <r00t4rd3d> this lady has emailed me 18 times about a 35 dollar sign
[17:13:52] <tjb1> Well make the damn thing r00t4rd3d
[17:13:58] <r00t4rd3d> now her husband has a couple questions
[17:14:17] <r00t4rd3d> im about to tell her to eat dirt
[17:14:39] <tjb1> tell her $5 per email after 5
[17:14:50] <tjb1> Label it as a consultation fee
[17:15:30] <archivist> tjb1, flex radius makes all the difference, large as possible
[17:16:06] <tjb1> archivist: I dont see a flex radius listed for it but I assume 24 gauge would be fine in a 5 inch radius
[17:17:25] <archivist> we learnt rather rapidly many years ago with wire to solenoids on a printer
[17:18:05] <ilias_> thanks all for everything
[17:18:28] <ilias_> tomorrow i'll have the hal file with me
[17:18:33] <andypugh> I would definitely want to see if that drive can work velocity-mode
[17:18:45] <archivist> and then we bought gore cable and never looked back http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/cables/flat/highflex/flat_cable_hi_flex_apps_tech_background_document.html
[17:19:14] <ilias_> thanks andypugh
[17:19:21] <ilias_> for the help
[17:19:23] <ilias_> bye
[17:19:53] <archivist> it can work in velocity
[17:20:22] <tjb1> archivist: Ill run it until I get problems…cant beat $20 for 82ft
[17:20:28] <andypugh> I think he said that your manual was for a higher-spec version than he has
[17:20:49] <archivist> was the model number he quoted
[17:21:52] <archivist> I bet with a small amount of googling he could get the right manual
[17:22:59] <archivist> andypugh, I won! fleabay 200830218558
[17:23:41] <andypugh> That sounds handy
[17:24:12] <archivist> now I have to wait for the post grrrr
[17:24:37] <andypugh> Hmm, he has the same computer and phone as me.
[19:05:58] <evokanevo> hi - i'm new to this channel and CNC in general. anyway, i'm wondering whether PCI parallel port cards are OK for step generation. i know they can do I/O (limit switches, etc), but not sure if the PCI latency variance will cause problems for stepping.
[19:06:38] <evokanevo> btw, i'm looking at pci cards with the netmos chipset since they are recommended: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=18&id=18917
[19:09:35] <Tom_itx> not all pci cards are created equal
[19:09:40] <Tom_itx> some may work some may not
[19:10:21] <Tom_itx> i prefer the add on mesa cards since the burden is offloaded to them
[19:10:52] <Tom_itx> you can run a latency test on your pc to find out
[19:17:31] <andypugh> evokanevo: PCI parallel cards are as good as any other parallel port.
[19:18:46] <andypugh> And probably good enough for many purposes. They can typically run steppers as fast as steppers can go unless the drive microstepping is very high. They tend to show their limits earlier with encoder counting.
[19:20:47] <evokanevo> ok. i have 10x microstepping, so i imagine that's not pushing the limit.
[19:21:08] <evokanevo> thanks guys. i'll give it a shot. worst case is i overspent 15 bucks
[19:22:10] <andypugh> 10x might be
[19:22:34] <Tom_itx> my 203v run 10x on the mesa stuff, i've never tried parport
[19:22:47] <andypugh> DO you know what latency your PC runs at?
[19:24:03] <evokanevo> umm, i think the loop is set for 30k/second, but i don't recall what the jitter was. is 12 microseconds outlandish?
[19:24:11] <evokanevo> i can boot and double-check
[19:26:59] <andypugh> 12uS sounds plausible enough.
[19:27:59] <jthornton> I've run my 203v's off of the parallel port
[19:28:15] <andypugh> 30kHz at 10x uStep = 900rpm.
[19:28:38] <jthornton> I'm glad Andy can do that math in his head :)
[19:28:41] <evokanevo> Yes, it looks like max jitter is around 13 microseconds. I currently run my 10x steppers off a parallel port - my question was really just whether a plugin card could be ruled out.
[19:28:57] <andypugh> (though there is the problem that the next speed down from 900rpm is 450 rpm.
[19:29:10] <andypugh> So you will probably not get 900.
[19:30:35] <andypugh> No, a plug-in card will work fine. But if that card is $15 for only a lot more ($60) you could have a Mesa 5i25 and not need to worry about speed.
[19:31:16] <andypugh> Sorry, $89 now I look.
[19:36:30] <evokanevo> Sounds good. I'll do the basic card for now and perhaps end up with a Mesa. I mostly want to be up and running before trying something new (Mesa).
[19:44:37] <tjb1> Any HR people care to take a look at my resume before the career fair tomorrow?
[19:45:52] <jthornton> can you chop wood and hunt bear?
[19:45:56] <jdh> HR people don't CNC
[19:46:16] <jthornton> you would be suprised
[19:46:22] <jthornton> surprised
[19:46:34] <tjb1> Seriously, can someone look over it? :)
[19:46:56] <Tom_itx> jthornton, what's this drill tap chart you were working on the other day?
[19:47:22] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/232071
[19:47:25] <jdh> HR people crawl back in to the slime after work.
[19:47:44] <tjb1> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/resumecheck.pdf
[19:48:12] <Tom_itx> jthornton, did you see their formula on that site i posted?
[19:48:20] <Tom_itx> i think it was for 60% thread
[19:48:21] <jthornton> I think so
[19:48:28] <Tom_itx> it was easy to calc
[19:48:43] <Tom_itx> just subtract a thread pitch from the diameter for the drill
[19:52:12] <jthornton> tjb1, looks good to me no bullshit fillers, just the facts ma'am
[19:52:33] <tjb1> Thanks jthornton
[19:53:56] <jthornton> Tom_itx, this app gives you the thread percentage for the drill bits you have on hand so you can choose the most appropriate bit for the job at hand
[19:54:26] <Tom_itx> as a good machinist you're supposed to have a full set
[19:54:38] <jthornton> say your threading uhmw and you want 100% thread if possible, you just pick the tap and look at your options
[19:55:03] <Tom_itx> i generally just hold the bit in front of the tap and eyeball it
[19:55:18] <jthornton> well he may not have metric drills or if he is a home shop machinist he may not have letter and number drills either.
[19:55:24] <jthornton> that works too
[19:55:36] <jthornton> but if your bored you fire up my app
[19:55:45] <Tom_itx> i did one in wood the other day i purposely made the hole undersize
[19:55:58] <Tom_itx> and let the tap cut what it would
[19:56:19] <Tom_itx> i like that thing andy posted a few days back
[19:56:21] <jthornton> I've tapped without a hole in 6061 before
[19:56:41] <Tom_itx> for feed/speed
[19:56:47] <Tom_itx> fswizzard
[19:57:05] <Tom_itx> gives materials etc
[19:57:18] <jthornton> yea, they seem to get overly complicated for some reason
[19:57:43] <jthornton> he has just reworked it today if you have not seen
[19:57:53] <Tom_itx> what?
[19:57:59] <jthornton> I don't like it because it is windows or web based
[19:58:02] <jthornton> fswizzard
[19:58:06] <Tom_itx> really?
[19:58:10] <Tom_itx> hmm
[19:58:20] <Tom_itx> not sure i even kept the link
[19:58:34] <jthornton> yea today he released a new version
[19:58:34] <Tom_itx> it seemed fairly close to what we used to run stuff at
[19:58:56] <jthornton> try zero-divide.net
[19:59:17] <jthornton> time to veg
[19:59:24] <jthornton> say goodnight Gracie
[19:59:37] <Tom_itx> i was gonna solder until i found out i was short on parts
[20:04:54] <Tom_itx> tjb1, you didn't mention #linuxcnc :)
[20:06:03] <tjb1> Knowledeable in annoying the people in #linuxcnc? :)
[20:10:12] <tjb1> jthornton: I went with 12 gauge for my water table..it was cheaper
[20:22:24] <r00t4rd3d> you should try 12gauge for your tooth brush too.
[20:23:05] <r00t4rd3d> oo
[21:06:00] <tjb1> Hey r00t4rd3d
[21:06:06] <tjb1> You should fulfill my earlier request
[22:10:07] <r00t4rd3d> there has to be something decent other then sheetcam for plasma stuff
[22:37:15] <tjb1> Find it for me