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[00:04:07] <skorket> r00t4rd3d, any idea what the runout is?
[00:33:37] <jrshaul> toastydeath: It melts easily and makes fumes.
[00:33:43] <jrshaul> Apparently you need a really really big laser.
[00:33:54] <jrshaul> However, the big 400W+ jobs can cut it at ludicrous speeds.
[00:53:55] <toastydeath> oh, i thought you were trying to machine it first
[00:54:01] <toastydeath> disregard
[01:48:00] <automata_> h mhaberler
[01:48:11] <mhaberler> hi automata
[02:05:44] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:22:14] <theos> o/
[02:27:27] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:02:30] <mrsun_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-have-you-made-your-south-bend-129669/index6.html#post594351 wth is that and what is it used for? :)
[03:08:46] <archivist> mrsun_, I am guessing parts for a shaper
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/shaper_column_65.html
[03:09:16] <mrsun_> ahh yes
[03:09:18] <mrsun_> now i see it
[03:09:22] <mrsun_> i thought it was mounted on a lathe =)
[03:11:10] <archivist> his first line of text gave me a clue and I googled shaper springfield
[04:08:37] <Valen> So I'm thinking about making a spindle
[04:08:49] <Valen> wondering how one goes about doing this with a crappy lathe
[04:26:39] <archivist> depends on what the spindle is for, and you could fix the crappyness
[04:34:05] <Loetmichel> Valen: a good Machinistr cam make the finest things even on a VERY crappy/weared down lathe
[04:34:09] <Loetmichel> -r
[04:34:35] <Valen> spindle is to be a metal cutting spindle in the 1-2Kw range
[04:34:39] <Valen> with tool changer
[04:34:55] <Valen> and I'm a crap machinist, my dads a bit better but not a god
[04:38:09] <archivist> part of it is doing things in the right order, part is good sharp tooling, good user and sturdy machine in adjustment
[04:38:48] <Valen> adjusting the machine could be interesting
[04:38:53] <archivist> the right order is about maintaining stiffness of the part during the operations
[04:39:50] <archivist> or you can rough turn and then finish grind
[04:41:17] <archivist> or..just get a parallel shaft er collet holder and build around that
[04:44:54] <Valen> going to be a pretty big size spindle, I'm going to build a big brushless into the back of it
[04:45:08] <Valen> so 2" OD is probably in the ballpark
[04:45:13] <archivist> the internal taper is one of the fun parts
[04:45:40] <archivist> or steal a part from a scrap something
[04:46:03] <Valen> yeah, the taper is posing something of a challenge
[04:46:15] <archivist> my southbend can do the internal tapers :)
[04:46:30] <Valen> thinking we might put the compound slide back on but getting the angle and such right could be interesting
[04:48:00] <archivist> cnc the lathe
[04:49:01] <archivist> I picked up a right angle head with a 30 sized spindle off ebay
[04:51:25] <Valen> we have .005mm linear glass scales on it at the moment, using it for DRO
[04:54:28] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_16_vertical_head/
[04:56:11] <Valen> back in a sec desiginging a computer for a friends sister
[05:08:39] <Valen> I like the use of the heatsink for scale and roll resistance
[05:11:28] <archivist> and if the spindle is for cnc mill, leave the internal taper final cut for on the machine so it is true to the bearings etc
[05:12:05] <Valen> good plan
[05:12:15] <Valen> that actually makes things much easier
[05:12:15] <archivist> point a toolpost grinder upwards
[05:12:30] <r00t4rd3d> -_o
[05:13:51] <Valen> I had that plan before but I forgot about it lol
[05:14:11] <Valen> Our biggest issue is making tool holders for it
[05:14:21] <Valen> as they require accurate lathe work
[05:15:27] <archivist> make it suitable for standard bt30/40/whateva
[05:16:08] <Valen> I was also thinking that
[05:16:34] <archivist> although I am working on a fixed length system for ER holders, I saw some at a show
[05:16:56] <Valen> I was going to have a height probe as part of the tool change
[05:18:00] <archivist> for some tool types a height probe does not cut it
[05:18:32] <Valen> hrm?
[05:18:58] <archivist> gear cutters
[05:19:53] <Valen> could you not have a known offset for the tool from the probed height?
[05:20:23] <archivist> one needs the centre line of the tool and od, the nut holding the tool is lowest
[05:21:23] <archivist> this turned 90
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_03_31_contrate_gear_prototype/IMG_1205.JPG
[05:21:25] <Valen> wouldn't the centerline be set by the toolholder, OD in the tool table and the offset between cutters and nut shouldn't change unless you mess with stuff?
[05:21:49] <archivist> each cutter is different
[05:22:33] <Valen> yeah, but once you have loaded it and set it up, it wouldn't change from use to use other than how far it is into the spindle?
[05:22:38] <archivist> and for the smaller sizes you need to include mounting errors
[05:24:40] <archivist> needs to be better than a thou that most seem to think is all right :)
[05:26:18] <Valen> mounting errors in which way?
[05:26:26] <Valen> i want to be able to cut gears
[05:28:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/tzrtV.jpg
[05:30:19] <archivist> Valen, think of a swash plate type error, it cuts a wider slot, so the centre line needs adjusting a bit for that
[05:35:22] <archivist> zoom in on
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_03_31_contrate_gear_prototype/IMG_1209.JPG and you can just see some offset
[05:44:48] <IchGuckLive> PCW Thanks to the unser yesterday
[05:45:14] <IchGuckLive> i will go with 100 pp/rev first its almost education
[05:45:21] <IchGuckLive> so i guess it is ok
[05:46:06] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: that cant have ended well
[06:54:12] * jthornton finally go my mind right on python classes
[07:25:52] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[07:40:36] <jdh> I just found 10 new-in-bags Thomson 20:1 right angle nema34 gearheads... in the trash.
[07:41:25] <archivist> lucky boy
[07:41:49] <jdh> I can't take them :(
[07:42:12] <archivist> there must be a way
[07:43:15] <jdh> I wish. 20+ compumotor stepper drives too.
[07:43:55] <archivist> you need to nag/ask some manager somewhere
[07:44:05] <archivist> bribe even
[07:49:19] <jdh> I'll have to see. The gearheads don't really belong in that pile (electrical stuff we call 'hazardous' due to lead)
[07:51:28] <Loetmichel> and lead is harzardous in WHAT way again?
[07:51:52] <Loetmichel> ... as a matal, not an oxide/water souble crystal?
[07:53:38] <jdh> hence the quotes :)
[07:59:07] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[08:12:25] <r00t4rd3d> where you looking for lunch?
[08:32:09] <jdh> in a restaurant.
[08:35:47] <jdh> where are you looking for lunch?
[08:42:18] <Valen> jdh did i mention i could "safely dispose" of all that "hazadous waste" by ensuring it didnt go into landfill?
[08:42:46] <skunkworks> https://www.fsf.org/news/hardware-certification-aleph-objects-lulzbot-3d-printer
[08:42:49] <Valen> ;->
[08:47:07] <jdh> Valen: I'd dispose of them also if I could.
[09:00:56] <skunkworks> mach has issues - You have to be a geek and programmer to use linuxcnc.. SO I am going to use KFLOP. (where I have to know C to do simple things like homing...)
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynomotion_kflop_kanalog/164856-learning_kmotion_ropes.html
[09:01:15] <skunkworks> People are funny
[09:06:14] <jdh> you're funny.
[09:06:44] <skunkworks> I agree. My mom told me so :)
[09:07:08] <jdh> you just didn't hear the rest of what she said...
[09:20:23] <r00t4rd3d> were*
[09:22:54] <Jymmm> If you use PayPal, you may wish to read the Upcoming Policy Updates BEFORE November 1, 2012.
[09:23:56] <jdh> interesting nick.
[11:06:20] <ScribbleJ> Recently I learned that if you want to process with VISA like Paypal does (i.e. you process transactions for other people who do not have their own merchant accounts) it only costs $5000 you pay VISA and $0 for Mastercard.
[11:07:30] <Jymmm> Yeah, but the potential chargeback fees are huge.
[11:10:39] <Jymmm> Funny thing about MasterCard... If you get a ticket, the courts here will * NOT * accept any credit card except Master Card (No Visa, AmEx, Discover), debit card, or cash.
[11:11:41] <Jymmm> I have yet to find any place that accepts Visa, not to accept MC too. Might be different outside the USA though.
[11:19:05] <jdh> I'd suggest avoiding to have to pay courts regardless of payment method.
[11:20:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, the judge was just a jerk. Brought in 30 pages of documents from the county road dept, didn't even bother to take them into consideration.
[11:23:53] <L84Supper> you're supposed to pay a lawyer to do that, how dare you try that on your own!
[11:24:08] <Jymmm> heh
[11:25:11] <Jymmm> It's funny, the cop made a point of saying he is too busy on his days off to appear in court. Yeah, Uh huh. He showed up of course =)
[11:26:30] <Jymmm> Even gave me his days off too.
[11:26:33] <L84Supper> Clockwork Orange
[11:26:56] <L84Supper> respect the badge
[11:27:12] <L84Supper> not the person
[11:27:17] <Jymmm> L84Supper: I haven't seen that in so long, I don't even remember the context.
[11:29:21] <L84Supper> his former thug friends were now police officers a few months later
[11:29:39] <Jymmm> ah
[11:31:27] <Jymmm> nothing has changed there today =)
[11:32:01] <tjb1_> I should be done machining?
[11:32:27] <L84Supper> "This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." - Plato.... not for thousands of years
[11:32:30] <tjb1> No ?…I should be done machining parts for my table
[11:38:48] <tjb1> http://ultimachine.com/ramps-pre-assembled-kit-complete
[11:38:53] <tjb1> Ugh sorry wrong window..
[12:15:18] <IchGuckLive> hi All
[14:39:37] <Jymmm> I just had a reroller place tell me ss shim stock is premium surcharged
[14:39:48] <mrsun_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1K5QjR3hyU&feature=related <-- my X1 at work ;P
[14:40:24] <Jymmm> mrsun_: Not even in your wet dreams!
[14:40:33] <mrsun_> =)
[14:44:44] <Jymmm> I'm more urious as to what that inconnel part is for more than anythign else.
[14:44:48] <Jymmm> curious
[14:46:53] <mrsun_> hehe
[14:48:37] <andypugh> I think RS just posted my Pi
[14:50:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: your brit acronyms dont translate =)
[14:50:22] <andypugh> Raspberry Pi
[14:50:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: (And not in the Brit to English dictionary either =)
[14:50:39] <Jymmm> and 'RS' ?
[14:50:46] <andypugh> Radio Spares
[14:50:56] <andypugh> Now known as RS components.
[14:51:12] <Jymmm> is that a website? In the US Rs is usually Radio Shack
[14:52:27] <andypugh> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/
[14:52:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: what do you mean they posted YOUR pi?
[14:52:34] <andypugh> They seem to be Allied in the US
[14:52:42] <Jymmm> ah
[14:53:05] <andypugh> I ordered one in April (if I remember right) and they finally got through the backlog of orders to mine.
[14:53:20] <Jymmm> Ah, ok. cool!
[14:53:28] <cpresser> andypugh: that is unfortunate. i had to wait only 2 weeks
[14:53:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: is this work or pleasure?
[14:53:36] <cpresser> but i ordered at farnell
[14:54:08] <andypugh> For fun.
[14:54:21] <andypugh> Everything I do that isn't related to cars is fun.
[14:54:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: Really? I thought you did dev work for profit?
[14:55:05] <cpresser> you might use rhe r-pi as car-pc :)
[14:55:26] <andypugh> What, LinuxCNC stuff? I actively avoid being paid for that (people keep offering)
[14:55:56] <Jymmm> andypugh: can you install XP on a pi?
[14:56:20] <cpresser> jope, its ARM
[14:56:25] <Jymmm> ah
[14:56:40] <Jymmm> so need to find a arm variant on linux
[14:56:46] <Jymmm> s/on/of/
[14:57:01] <cpresser> linux runs fine; just a few parts are closed-source (video-core)
[14:57:40] <Jymmm> How is the pi compared to a PicoITX ?
[14:57:43] <cpresser> documentation for that part is quite sparse, right now i am fighting with the PIs OpenMAX implementation
[14:58:36] <cpresser> Jymmm: depends on the CPU on the PicoITX board.
[14:58:56] <Jymmm> cpresser: first gen Via (tm)
[14:59:04] <cpresser> generally speaking, the PI is not fast. some say it can be compared to a PII-200Mhz X86 cpu
[14:59:10] <jdh> I got a Pi a few months ago. Haven't found anything useful to do with it other than boot it.
[14:59:31] <Jymmm> jdh: That was my issue witht he PicoITX too
[14:59:40] <andypugh> It's a fair bit smaller than a PicoITX
[14:59:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: performance or physical?
[15:00:10] <andypugh> Physical.
[15:00:22] <cpresser> however, it can decode FullHD video. On the other hand the X-Server is quite slow. I would try to use it as desktop
[15:00:27] <jdh> it was kind of cool hooking it up to a 60" teevee. Powered via USB from the TV
[15:00:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: yeah.
[15:01:05] <andypugh> 3.37 x 2.125"
[15:01:13] <Jymmm> I want to use a $60 tablet as display/touch screen input
[15:01:23] <Jymmm> But I dont think it has the horsepower
[15:01:33] <Jymmm> to do the other stuff
[15:03:07] <Jymmm> and I need the usb to be host, not slave.
[15:17:22] <tjb1> I need some help, my Z axis bypasses the limit switch but I can clearly see the switch activate. Is there a debounce setting or something for the inputs?
[15:18:27] <r00t4rd3d> do a continuity test on your wires to start
[15:19:08] <tjb1> It works just not in certain ways
[15:19:12] <r00t4rd3d> then use your tester to check the switches function
[15:19:20] <tjb1> It works :P
[15:19:26] <r00t4rd3d> apparently not.
[15:19:38] <tjb1> …it does, just not in this situation
[15:20:23] <r00t4rd3d> I cant believe you built your machine from scratch and you need micro switches to keep it within its limits.
[15:20:28] <tjb1> If I go up-down-up-down-up-down-up-down between the switches and then send it up far enough to the trigger it blows by it and I can see the prox sensor light up…if I just go up it stops the axis on the trigger like it should
[15:21:10] <tjb1> Why, because you use soft limits?
[15:21:21] <r00t4rd3d> i dont use any
[15:21:36] <r00t4rd3d> besides what i entered in stepconf
[15:21:43] <r00t4rd3d> but i dont stick to that either
[15:21:50] <r00t4rd3d> i zero my machine to my material
[15:21:59] <r00t4rd3d> how ever I clamp it
[15:23:06] <r00t4rd3d> I want to tell the machine where zero is, not a switch.
[15:24:41] <tjb1> Thats not telling the machine where zero is…its telling it where home is :P
[15:25:14] <r00t4rd3d> i never home my axis either
[15:25:19] <r00t4rd3d> 0,0,1
[15:26:50] <r00t4rd3d> i cant even remember what i set my home position at in stepconf :D
[15:28:17] <tjb1> some of us have travel :P
[15:29:08] <r00t4rd3d> after you get up and going you will see
[15:29:33] <skunkworks> I can't imagine running a machine without a pre-defined home
[15:29:56] <r00t4rd3d> i guess im redneck
[15:30:05] <r00t4rd3d> or like doing it the hard way
[15:30:05] <skunkworks> heh
[15:30:48] <skunkworks> well - I have a tool changer, pallet changer and such so - I really need a home position.
[15:30:56] <tjb1> You see, some of us have more than 4" of travel :D
[15:31:16] <r00t4rd3d> i have like 10 on my z, my smallest
[15:31:35] <r00t4rd3d> though I only ever use 3/4 of an inch
[15:32:12] <r00t4rd3d> most of my engravings dont go deeper then 1/4
[15:32:50] <skunkworks> tjb1, how are your limits hooked into linuxcnc?
[15:33:02] <tjb1> Shared input on G540
[15:33:11] <tjb1> through parallel port to computer
[15:33:47] <skunkworks> if you run it slower across the limit it see's it?
[15:35:35] <tjb1> Yes
[15:35:54] <tjb1> Well it can run the same speed across and trip it if I dont do the up-down-up-down-up-down before hitting it
[15:36:26] <skunkworks> I think you need to explain that better...
[15:36:34] <r00t4rd3d> i think if i used JT-Shop's align program it would make my life easier
[15:37:27] <tjb1> Its the Z axis…if I send it up-down-up-down-up-down and then up high enough to hit the switch, it doesnt stop
[15:37:43] <tjb1> So if it hit page up-page down-page up-page down...
[15:37:54] <skunkworks> how is the limit switch hooked in to linuxcnc?
[15:38:03] <skunkworks> are you wanting it to estop?
[15:38:44] <tjb1> Well its a limit so it kills the power
[15:39:23] <skunkworks> right - but do you actually have it killing power physically - or does it go though linuxcnc first?
[15:39:47] <skunkworks> my limit switches are part of the estop loop.
[15:40:01] <jdh> not mine
[15:40:10] <tjb1> linuxcnc
[15:40:22] <tjb1> I cant, I have 1 switch per axis that is both limits and the home for the axis
[15:40:41] <r00t4rd3d> you can wire all the limits together
[15:40:58] <tjb1> They are
[15:41:31] <r00t4rd3d> so set them as estop in parallel settings
[15:41:40] <r00t4rd3d> not limits
[15:41:52] <skunkworks> how is it hooked in hal?
[15:42:00] <r00t4rd3d> i think you can defined a couple uses for them
[15:42:06] <r00t4rd3d> define*
[15:42:24] <r00t4rd3d> i think its just limit and home though
[15:42:49] <tjb1> There are(going to be) 3 proximity sensors, all wiring to input 1 on the g540. They do the homing/limit for all axis
[15:42:57] <tjb1> I currently only have 1 hooked up
[15:43:54] <tjb1> net both-home-z <= parport.0.pin-10-in-not
[15:45:04] <skunkworks> what is both-home-z also hooked to?
[15:45:36] <tjb1> In hal?
[15:45:41] <skunkworks> yes
[15:46:10] <tjb1> net both-home-z => axis.0.home-sw-in, net both-home-z => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in, net both-home-z => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[15:46:18] <jdh> heh... HF has their cheapo calipers for $8.99 this w/e
[15:51:16] <tjb1> Any recommendations skunkworks ?
[15:52:33] <skunkworks> tjb1, seems ok.. I would halscope the signal and see what it is doing
[15:52:54] <tjb1> Ill have to read up on halscope first
[15:53:42] <r00t4rd3d> hal is like linuxcnc's perverted uncle.
[15:56:28] <r00t4rd3d> you try to avoid him but sooner or later he ends up fucking you too.
[15:56:35] <tjb1> I slowed teh Z down to 120ipm and it tripped
[15:57:19] <r00t4rd3d> get a better switch
[15:57:35] <skunkworks> well - the base period is normally 1khz could it be turning on and off within 1ms?
[15:59:59] <tjb1> I dont think its 1ms but its fast
[16:00:21] <skunkworks> that is why I would halscope and see if the signal is even getting into hal
[16:00:29] <skunkworks> Hal is awesome!
[16:00:39] <tjb1> I dont know how to use Halscope yet
[16:00:49] <skunkworks> play with it :)
[16:01:52] <tjb1> i have to play with other things first :P
[16:18:00] <tjb1> Hey JT-Shop
[16:22:02] <tjb1> I took z home switch off and deleted the code but now if I just home it so it 0s wherever it is, it sets it to -.170
[16:22:26] <tjb1> Ive even restarted LinuxCNC and its still not setting Z to 0…any ideas?
[16:22:44] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:34:36] <andypugh> tjb1: You can add a debounce, but it isn't there by default.
[16:35:20] <andypugh> I woder if your up-down-up is enough to make a marginal supply voltage drop below a critical level?
[16:45:11] <andypugh> tjb1: You need to see if the switch triggers in Halscope, if the state change isn't getting to the software, all bets are off.
[16:50:30] <skunkworks> tjb1, you probably have a touchoff set. Clear them
[17:33:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/U7teq
[17:33:14] <r00t4rd3d> done.
[17:33:43] <JT-Shop> hey tjb1, just putting the bicycle away
[17:54:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/xEz8g.jpg
[17:54:58] <r00t4rd3d> a better pic of my top, not so washed out in flash
[17:56:09] <skunkworks> neat
[18:00:03] <JT-Shop> tjb1: back
[18:34:16] * JT-Shop leaves Harro W. Wong Fong Sang to andypugh
[18:34:31] <andypugh> I wondered what was happening there
[18:35:04] <JT-Shop> were they disappearing on you?
[18:35:25] <andypugh> I deleted all the spammers, and 4 of the real people disappered too.
[18:35:39] <andypugh> Wong Fong Samg looks OK to me
[18:35:40] <JT-Shop> we must have been working at the same time
[18:35:44] <JT-Shop> yea, me too
[18:36:46] * JT-Shop goes back to running 3-phase to the grinder and lathe
[18:40:49] <SWPadnos> on the subject of spammers, I've been getting between 10 and 100 messages a day from DreamHost saying that various messages are undeliverable because the user doesn't exist
[18:40:58] <SWPadnos> at gmail most of the time
[18:41:08] <JT-Shop> yea spammers love gmail
[18:41:32] <JT-Shop> we get thousands of spammers a day it seems like trying to register on linuxcnc.org
[18:42:07] <SWPadnos> yep, and a lot of them don't use valid email addresses, so I get the "undelivered mail" notifications
[18:42:51] <andypugh> They like to put spaces in. I guess that what is bouncing is the confirmation email,
[18:43:06] <SWPadnos> nope, not the ones I'm getting
[18:43:11] <andypugh> We could consider putting confirmation emails on manual. Or turning them off, actually.
[18:43:17] <SWPadnos> it's either no user by that name, or host not found
[18:43:50] <SWPadnos> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Host or domain name not found. Name service error
[18:43:51] <SWPadnos> for name=aidkeivwhhkf.com type=A: Host not found
[18:43:53] <SWPadnos> that's one
[18:44:12] <SWPadnos> <xiao.yao@aol.com>: delivery temporarily suspended: host
[18:44:14] <SWPadnos> mailin-01.mx.aol.com[64.12.90.98] refused to talk to me: 421
[18:44:16] <SWPadnos> mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com Service unavailable - try again later
[18:44:22] <SWPadnos> another type (not much we can do about this one)
[18:44:43] <SWPadnos> maybe there are DH panel settings that can turn off certain kinds of these notifications
[18:45:01] <andypugh> xiao.yao looks probably genuine
[18:45:24] <SWPadnos> sure, could be
[18:45:47] <SWPadnos> that one was from yesterday, and it's possible that the mail server tried again
[18:46:17] <SWPadnos> <aekpeezia@gmail.com>: host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.141.26] said:
[18:46:19] <SWPadnos> 550-5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist. Please
[18:46:20] <SWPadnos> try 550-5.1.1 double-checking the recipient's email address for typos or
[18:46:22] <SWPadnos> 550-5.1.1 unnecessary spaces. Learn more at 550 5.1.1
[18:46:23] <SWPadnos> http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=6596 s9si7367665pav.59
[18:46:25] <SWPadnos> (in reply to RCPT TO command)
[18:46:27] <SWPadnos> That's the other kind of message I remember
[18:49:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[18:49:34] <JT-Shop> andypugh: if I turn it off then you/me can send them manual I think
[18:50:01] <JT-Shop> but knowing what I know about Joomula I better not
[18:51:01] <Valen> I'd suggest perhaps just filtering the email
[18:51:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: BTW... "Service unavailable - try again later" is a RFC valid anti-spam method.
[18:51:23] <Valen> greylisting ftw ;->
[18:51:30] <Jymmm> Valen: hardly
[18:51:32] <JT-Shop> and we are behind by a zillon versions 1.8 and latest is 2.5.6
[18:51:55] <JT-Shop> Diggy Liggy Lo
[18:51:55] <Valen> ""service unavailable - try again later" is a RFC valid anti-spam method." aka greylisting
[18:53:24] <Valen> for SWPadnos I'd suggest a few mail rules to just file all the errors off somewhere
[18:54:13] <Jymmm> Valen: No, it's not.
[18:54:41] <Valen> enlighten me then
[18:54:55] <Jymmm> Valen: colorlistings, implies a list is created, there is no list created or referenced.
[18:56:19] <Valen> so this method you speak of, how does it work?
[18:57:41] <Jymmm> Valen: Read RFC2821
[18:57:59] <Valen> I have
[18:58:33] <Valen> and i'm curious as to what method uses a "try later" message that isn't greylisting
[19:02:18] <SWPadnos> hi Jymmm
[19:03:00] <SWPadnos> yep, the 550 response and "service unavailable" could be used as filters, but I still get the notifications since I'm the "webmaster" for the domain
[19:06:18] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, is there an SPF record?
[19:06:30] <SWPadnos> SPF 90, I burn easily
[19:06:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Policy_Framework
[19:07:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: also DomainKeys
[19:08:17] <Valen> that probably wouldn't actually reduce the bounce messages much, it'll at best give another reason for the bounce
[19:08:21] <SWPadnos> no, I don't see anything in the headers that look like that
[19:08:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: and what MTA are we talking about?
[19:08:33] <Valen> its a good idea to put spf in place anyway
[19:08:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: wait, what?
[19:09:00] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what MTA are we talking about?
[19:09:03] <SWPadnos> these are notifications from the mailer daemon to the webmaster about failed emails, which were auto-generated by joomla
[19:09:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: what domain?
[19:09:28] <SWPadnos> linuxcnc.org
[19:09:41] <SWPadnos> it's the automatic email when you register, saying "we'll get back to you"
[19:09:49] <Valen> yeah, your system is making the emails itself, then its bouncing from the other server, so SPF isnt going to fix it
[19:09:50] <SWPadnos> but if it bounces, I get a notice
[19:10:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: There are no dns SPF records for linuxcnc.org
http://www.unlocktheinbox.com/dnslookup/mx/linuxcnc.org/
[19:10:47] <SWPadnos> this isn't a spoofing problem
[19:10:54] <Valen> you are sending "from" a legit source and the bounces are valid errors, you need to try not to send the messages in the first place
[19:11:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: SPF record is something YOU add to the dns records for the domain.
[19:11:14] <SWPadnos> someone uses a bot to try to register spam accounts on the forum
[19:11:14] <Valen> Jymmm: YOU dont understand his problem
[19:11:33] <SWPadnos> the forum code sends an email to the (bogus) address used to register
[19:11:44] <SWPadnos> the automatically sent email bounces
[19:11:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: is there a capctha?
[19:11:52] <andypugh> So, the solution might be to turn off the confirmation email.
[19:11:55] <SWPadnos> I get the bounce notice, since I'm the webmaster
[19:11:57] <SWPadnos> dunno
[19:12:02] <andypugh> The spammers manage to confirm anyway.
[19:12:09] <SWPadnos> andypugh, yes, that would solve my problem
[19:12:10] <andypugh> Yes, there is a Captcha
[19:12:21] <Jymmm> for the forum?
[19:12:52] <andypugh> I also get the impression that some people never get the confirmation email because _we_ are blocked as a spam site.
[19:12:54] <SWPadnos> it might be disconcerting for people who register though, since they won't have any indication that it worked (except whatever page shows up thanking them at registration time0
[19:12:59] <SWPadnos> s/0/)/
[19:13:13] <Valen> email is used less and less these days
[19:13:31] <r00t4rd3d> I send smoke signals mainly.
[19:13:32] <Valen> if its just a confirmation message not a part of the registration I'd turf it
[19:13:45] <andypugh> It's part of the registration.
[19:13:48] <Valen> i mean all the "cool kids" use forums and such rather than mailing lists
[19:14:04] <SWPadnos> yes, it's a "thank you, we're going to make sure you're real and then approve your registration" message
[19:14:07] <SWPadnos> just a pacifier
[19:14:22] <Valen> so it has a "click here to confirm" in it or no?
[19:14:24] <andypugh> No, they have to reply to be allowed in.
[19:14:44] <r00t4rd3d> you guys talking about the linuxcnc forums?
[19:14:46] <SWPadnos> oh, right, I see that in the original message now
[19:14:48] <andypugh> Yes
[19:14:49] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:15:01] <Valen> ahh, then you cant turn it off
[19:15:20] <r00t4rd3d> alex said he might update them
[19:15:25] <r00t4rd3d> to phpBB :D
[19:15:28] <Valen> perhaps look at adding some outbound mail filters to block incorrect addresses from being sent (if you cant do that in joom)
[19:15:55] <Valen> set a specific "from" address for the message when you send it
[19:15:57] <r00t4rd3d> so then all this nightmare will be over
[19:16:03] <Valen> then filter bounces
[19:16:10] <andypugh> I am not sure that many of us _can_ do anythin in Joomla.
[19:16:15] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: yeah because phpbb gets *no* spam..... ;-P
[19:16:33] <r00t4rd3d> it does but there is mods and stuff to deal with it better
[19:16:35] <SWPadnos> well, the PHP code probably doesn't talk directly to the mail server, so it (probably) can't see the 550 or other errors that the SMTP server sees
[19:16:36] * Valen is getting 10 spam registrations a day for a site thats practically hidden
[19:17:09] <Valen> nah i mean have joomla or whatever just reject any application with a fooo.com email address
[19:17:14] <Valen> malformed addresses
[19:17:17] <andypugh> LInuxCNC had 850+ one day last week
[19:17:32] <r00t4rd3d> alex_joni
[19:17:35] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[19:17:46] <andypugh> We did block gmail completely for a while. But I campaigned against that.
[19:17:57] <Valen> with you on that one
[19:18:01] <SWPadnos> there are 9777 messages in my linuxcnc folder, and only a few hundred of them are not these mailer daemon notifications
[19:18:24] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos, do you have root access to the webserver?
[19:18:34] <andypugh> Can't we just kill the spammers?
[19:18:50] <SWPadnos> it looks like it started last December, but it's been much worse in the last month or two
[19:18:54] <andypugh> I wouldn't mind if I could even figure out what their intended revenue stream is.
[19:19:03] <Valen> SWPadnos: what if those notifications coming from the signup page were able to be filtered out would that suffice for you?
[19:19:04] <SWPadnos> r00t4rd3d, no, I don't have root, but there are quite a few things I can do
[19:19:14] <SWPadnos> I can't kill the mail daemon
[19:19:15] <Valen> andypugh: they get on the forum then post links to porn sites mostly
[19:19:27] <SWPadnos> they're not from the sign-up page
[19:20:05] <Valen> i mean somebody signs up, it sends a confirmation email that bounces
[19:20:20] <Valen> if we filtered that specific case into the big round bit bucket in the sky
[19:20:25] <archivist> get joomla updated, and get a bot proof captcha
[19:20:41] <r00t4rd3d> get joomla deleted and install phpBB.
[19:20:42] <Valen> lol they are bot proof for like a week
[19:20:51] <SWPadnos> bot signs up with bogus address, joomla sends email using PHP-mail, DH mail server tries to send message to bogus address, DH mail server gets "no can do" error of some sort, DH mail server sends message to webmaster (me) saying "hey, you might want to know that this mail couldn't go through"
[19:20:55] <Valen> joomla and phpbb (should be) doing different tasks
[19:20:57] <andypugh> The only plus in all this is that the bots choose really obviously not-real names.
[19:21:11] <archivist> phpbb is a pile of steaming... too
[19:21:27] <SWPadnos> joomla and phpBB are pretty irrelevant to this discussion, I think
[19:21:34] <r00t4rd3d> way better then outdated joomla
[19:21:42] <Valen> SWPadnos: what I'm saying is if that confirmation email has a "from" address thats say confirmations@linuxcnc.org rather than webmaster@linuxcnc.org the bounce message will go there
[19:21:47] <SWPadnos> if either one can be configured to send or not send emails, then they are equivalents
[19:21:54] <SWPadnos> no, they won't
[19:22:02] <SWPadnos> at least, I think they won't
[19:22:03] <Valen> they should
[19:22:22] <SWPadnos> I believe these are messages to the sysadmin saying that a user is doing something that didn't work
[19:22:24] <Valen> well unless you have webmaster getting *all* bounce messages
[19:22:28] <SWPadnos> so it doesn't matter who the user is
[19:22:32] <SWPadnos> ding! :)
[19:22:45] <Valen> thats not the default configuration
[19:22:53] <PCW> Youtube now has phone call account verification (they call you with a number) I guess they gave up on capchas
[19:23:15] <SWPadnos> actually, they just might be getting sent from webmaster@, which could fix teh problem
[19:23:40] <Valen> it means if say andypugh sent an email from andypugh@linuxcnc to Valen@wherever.com and it bounced because my mailbox was full then webmaster@linuxcnc would get a copy of andypughs email to me in the bounce message
[19:23:50] <Valen> and andypugh wouldn't see it
[19:24:09] <Valen> can you pastebin one of these bounce messages?
[19:24:42] <SWPadnos> actually, you're right, the original mail comes from webmaster
[19:25:09] <Valen> yeah so we just need to change the "from" address used for the confirmation message
[19:25:13] <SWPadnos> Subject: LinuxCNC.org - Your Registration is Pending Approval
[19:25:15] <SWPadnos> From: User Registration <webmaster@linuxcnc.org>
[19:25:17] <SWPadnos> Date: 10/11/2012 3:33 PM
[19:25:18] <SWPadnos> To: helqbbecmncg@lhmowggxovwj.com
[19:25:20] <SWPadnos> for example
[19:25:22] <Valen> then you can just killfile all of them
[19:25:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Has anyone updated (if applicable ) the Kuena forum plugin for joomla?
[19:25:35] <Valen> what mail client are you using?
[19:25:50] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: no
[19:25:54] <Jymmm> http://www.kunena.org/
[19:26:05] <JT-Shop> nor jooumla
[19:26:20] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I don't know the status of updates, that's been an Alex/JT (and I see Andy) thing for a while
[19:26:24] <SWPadnos> actually forever
[19:26:33] <SWPadnos> Valen, I'm using SeaMonkey on this machine
[19:26:43] <SWPadnos> I have headers, I just didn't paste them in :)
[19:26:55] <Valen> you use multiple devices to look at this email account?
[19:27:02] <JT-Shop> I don't do any updates, I think you need super powers to do that
[19:27:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, if theres a security update for it, it might stop all the bogus signups.
[19:27:33] <andypugh> Installed version: 1.0.8 | 2009-02-17
[19:27:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Since it's the item that's actually generating all those emails
[19:27:38] <r00t4rd3d> pretty sure there is a update for everything
[19:27:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: Latest is 2.02
[19:28:00] <r00t4rd3d> if you got joomla to the latest version even might be huge
[19:28:21] <Valen> probably going to be a big change doing that though
[19:28:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[19:28:33] <JT-Shop> latest kunena is 2.02
[19:28:45] <r00t4rd3d> there is probably an update feature in the admin panel
[19:28:49] <JT-Shop> but you need to update joomla first
[19:29:07] <SWPadnos> it's at v1.5.25, DH has 2.5.7 available, and the Joomla website says 3.0.1 is the latest
[19:29:08] <r00t4rd3d> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[19:29:13] <r00t4rd3d> joomla update manager
[19:29:38] <r00t4rd3d> 1.0 and on
[19:29:39] <SWPadnos> but DH is set to automatically update, so it's kinda strange that we're 1.0 out of date ...
[19:29:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: it's a plugin
[19:30:21] <r00t4rd3d> you can probably install the plugin from the admin panel
[19:30:34] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you can
[19:30:36] <SWPadnos> well, I don't have time to really deal with it tonight, I'm heading out of town tomorrow
[19:30:44] <r00t4rd3d> thats what they all say...
[19:30:49] <r00t4rd3d> no time
[19:30:52] <andypugh> I think you are missing the point that AFAIK _we_ can't do anyhting.
[19:31:06] <SWPadnos> if alex_joni can update it some time, that would be great
[19:31:21] <SWPadnos> I could click the update button, but I can't help with the fallout :)
[19:31:29] <r00t4rd3d> who has access to the joomla admin panel ?
[19:31:33] <Jymmm> http://www.kunena.org/forum/K-2-0-General-Questions/125332-captcha-in-kunena
[19:31:37] <Valen> doooooo eeeeettttt ;->
[19:31:49] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos, install that update extension!
[19:31:52] <Valen> click the button and run
[19:31:52] <archivist> it has to be done
[19:31:55] <Valen> you know you want to
[19:32:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/core-enhancements/installers/9332
[19:32:02] <SWPadnos> next week, maybe
[19:32:07] <r00t4rd3d> loser.
[19:32:11] <SWPadnos> I'll be here for most of the week
[19:32:11] <r00t4rd3d> L
[19:32:29] <r00t4rd3d> if you are scared....
[19:32:40] <archivist> or spread the love so someone else can do it
[19:32:53] <andypugh> I would be scared to do it.
[19:33:09] <r00t4rd3d> andy did you see the extension ?
[19:33:16] <r00t4rd3d> it updates it for you
[19:33:23] <archivist> one needs to test on a clone
[19:33:33] <jthornton> I have added one plugin so far
[19:33:46] <andypugh> But it is all very wierd. Like the way that the "User Manager" button is completley different to, and does different things to the "Community Builder -> Yser Management" menu item.
[19:33:48] <archivist> are backups being done
[19:33:49] <r00t4rd3d> read the reviews for the extension
[19:34:10] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure I have a Joomla login, but I don't remember the password (or username, come to think of it) since it's been about a year since I looked at it
[19:34:30] <SWPadnos> I think Alex did add me as a super-duper admin at that time
[19:34:55] <SWPadnos> I also have control over the joomla install itself, through my DH account (which I also gave to Alex around the same time)
[19:35:26] <SWPadnos> but as I said, I don't have time tonight, so maybe some time next week (though I'm pretty busy then too), or some time in November if someone else hasn't done it already
[19:35:28] <SWPadnos> see you later
[19:35:37] <Valen> catchya, laters
[19:35:51] <jthornton> later
[19:37:51] <r00t4rd3d> SWPadnos,
http://sammoffatt.com.au/os/joomla-15-products/3-jupdateman/37-jupdateman-walkthrough?showall=1
[19:37:59] <r00t4rd3d> from the maker of the extension on use.
[19:38:03] <r00t4rd3d> 3 steps :/
[19:38:16] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: the problem isnt the update
[19:38:23] <Valen> its fixing what breaks
[19:39:12] <r00t4rd3d> no quicker way to fix it then break it
[19:39:28] <archivist> which is why I clone something when doing a large update like that, I know what one can hit along the way
[19:39:54] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: sure, if you have no life
[19:39:55] <r00t4rd3d> would much be missed if all the messages got wiped?
[19:40:38] <archivist> a database dump first so anything can be repaired
[19:41:29] <andypugh> yes, there is a lot of info only on the forums
[19:52:14] <gmouer> would like to confirm... heard that running servo drives in torque mode is the better method and used more commonly in later machines, velocity mode was more common on older machines and not as popular today
[19:53:13] <andypugh> I have very little experience, nut my impression is that torque mode is a bit harder to tune.
[19:54:08] <gmouer> I certainly lack experience too, PCW would prob be the guy with some great info
[19:55:34] <gmouer> myself and a couple friends will be doing some bridgeports before long, and I just heard about torque mode being the preferred method today, thus the question
[19:55:54] <gmouer> no drives yet so can go either way
[19:56:21] <PCW> Torque mode effectively requires LinuxCNC to run the velocity loop as well (the D term)
[19:56:23] <PCW> this typically needs higher bandwidth so you may need more than 1 KHz servo thread
[19:56:49] <gmouer> ok, but that is not a obstacle is it?
[19:57:00] <PCW> Depends on your CPU
[19:57:39] <gmouer> ok, so if you had your choice, and had not bought drives yet nor a cpu, which would you pick and why?
[19:58:17] <andypugh> That's slightly unfair. PCW would choose Mesa kit because he has racks of it.
[19:58:23] <PCW> some core Duos will cheerfully run 5 KHz loops, but the little Atom MBs are limited to about 1.5 KHz
[20:00:13] <PCW> Torque mode means LinuxCNC has more control (so say you want to limit torque during homing, you can)
[20:01:15] <PCW> most newer drives can do either so you dont necessarily need to chose at this point
[20:01:20] <gmouer> that is basically what I heard, that in torque, linuxcnc has tighter control over the whole process in general because it is handling it in entirety
[20:01:57] <gmouer> what is the trend in new modern machinery out there?
[20:02:23] <gmouer> non linuxcnc, fanuc, and such
[20:03:04] <PCW> Dont really know I like torque mode but in my experience its definitely fussier to tune
[20:04:05] <gmouer> interesting, I had hoped to get your input, I have read many of your posts concerning servo's and your expertise is quite evident
[20:04:30] <PCW> It also quite nice for spindles since you can integrate torque over time and get and idea how much work is needed for a particular job
[20:04:51] <PCW> (and notice dull tooling etc)
[20:05:44] <gmouer> say on a bridgeport, would you expect one method to give better following error results on average over the other?
[20:06:53] <andypugh> Torque mode is cheaper. AFAIK all the Pico and Mesa amps are torque-mode
[20:07:09] <gmouer> cheap is good LOL
[20:07:44] <PCW> I think its much of a muchness, you are really only talking about where physically the parts of the control loop are run
[20:07:46] <PCW> a velocity mode drive runs the D term at the drive. And yes torque mode is cheaper since the drive need not know the motor velocity
[20:07:49] <gmouer> amps for the bridgeport are not as plentifull, need at least 15amps cont and maybe 25 peak, 140V or so
[20:09:19] <andypugh> DC or brushless motors?
[20:09:33] <gmouer> oem brush, sem and powertron motors
[20:10:19] <gmouer> right now I have dugong step/dir drives in it, 30amp rated, I am set at 15amp contin , drives are running at 125V
[20:10:33] <andypugh> 7i29?
http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html
[20:11:29] <andypugh> But what do you hope to gain by ditching the Dugongs?
[20:11:42] <gmouer> I looked at those Andy, I just wish they had a touch more peak capability than 22.5a
[20:12:33] <andypugh> It's 22.5A continuous.
[20:13:16] <gmouer> the dugong tuning sucks !!! Been 2 years now, and I have tuned several times but never got rid of dither problems even breaking into low level oscillation, I have to detune things to get things stable. Pretty sluggish tune
[20:14:01] <gmouer> I just retro'd a lathe with linuxcnc and the oem velocity drives, tuning was such a pleasure !!!
[20:14:15] <andypugh> Well, that's velocity drives for you :-)
[20:14:37] <andypugh> Have you tried running the Dugongs as velocity drives?
[20:14:38] <gmouer> the dugongs have no FF parameters for example brought out in their software
[20:14:45] <PCW> Are the original drives gone?
[20:14:58] <gmouer> yea, the original bridgeport drives were long gone
[20:15:34] <andypugh> You could set up a PID in HAL and send velocity-mode stepgen signals to the Dugongs.
[20:15:35] <tjb1> Can someone explain the latency test numbers to me and where I put them. I have my base_period at 16000 and the latency test keeps showing numbers like 9k but when I start axis I get error about it
[20:15:53] <gmouer> the dugongs are step/dir drives, encoder feedback to the drive, loop is closed between motor and drive outside the control, no way to do velocity that I could think of
[20:16:13] <andypugh> tjb1: What does your motion.servo-overruns pin say?
[20:16:54] <andypugh> gmouer: take the feedback to LinuxCNC too, set up a PID and send velocity-mode stepgen output to the Dugong.
[20:17:14] <andypugh> I don't know that it will work better, but it's free to try.
[20:17:23] <tjb1> Is that in the HAL?
[20:17:33] <andypugh> yes
[20:17:37] <gmouer> the drives will shut down without encoder input, so the encoder has to be connected to the drive
[20:17:38] <tjb1> No motion.servo in hal file
[20:17:53] * Valen uses mesa hardware, just because its awesome ;->
[20:18:05] <andypugh> tjb1: Machine->show hal config
[20:18:20] <gmouer> the dugongs would sell easily to one of the mach3 boys, so that makes switching drives pretty cheap
[20:19:14] <Valen> I like that the mesa chain is all digital
[20:19:26] <tjb1> andypugh: Still no motion.servo
[20:19:55] <gmouer> PCW: on the 7i29 is the 22.5 amps the peak capability also?
[20:20:19] <Valen> I ran my servo loop at up to 7khz on a dual cpu xeon and there wasnt much of an improvement for me over 1khz, but then i have linear scales for the feed back, so i think theres a bit of lag in the system
[20:20:37] <Valen> also my servo motors are 500W scooter motors directly coupled ;->
[20:22:06] <andypugh> tjb1: It's under parameters
[20:22:37] <tjb1> andypugh: Ok found it now, what do you want? The value?
[20:23:02] <andypugh> Just wondering if it is continuously increasing
[20:23:24] <andypugh> (note that only the _watch_ tab auto-updates.
[20:23:45] <tjb1> Nothing showing on my watch tab :)
[20:23:54] <andypugh> No, you have to add it
[20:24:29] <andypugh> just click the parameter with the watch tab open
[20:24:41] <andypugh> (I wish there was a way to remove things from the watch tab)
[20:24:54] <tjb1> Ok not increasing with just axis open
[20:25:01] <andypugh> Value?
[20:25:10] <tjb1> 0
[20:25:19] <andypugh> That's interesting
[20:25:40] <Valen> I do wish there was a way to squelch warnings about latency for a few seconds after starting , but still get them if it happens after then
[20:25:46] <tjb1> I dont remember the exact message but I know it says something about it only showing once during the session
[20:25:53] <andypugh> Though it might just mean no servo-thread over-runs, and you might be having base-thread problems
[20:25:57] <tjb1> and running task 1
[20:26:11] <Valen> I always get a latency error when starting axis
[20:26:13] <andypugh> Yes, the once-per-session is why I suggest loooking at the parameter.
[20:26:34] <tjb1> Is there a way to check the base thread?
[20:26:36] <andypugh> The parameter is updated every time, but I think only for the servo thread
[20:27:08] <andypugh> Not that I know of, but that doesn't mean that there isn't
[20:27:26] <andypugh> Right, 'tis 0215, time to sleep.
[20:27:31] <tjb1> What am I looking for in the latency test? The max jitter in the base thread?
[20:27:32] <Valen> i think theres one just called latency in there somewhere
[20:27:49] <Valen> nighty night andypugh
[20:27:59] <tjb1> Max jitter on base thread is 6532
[20:28:07] <tjb1> Bye andypugh
[20:28:16] <Valen> you cant run latency test and axis at the same time
[20:29:24] <tjb1> Axis isnt running
[20:30:23] <r00t4rd3d> Ahh, nother happy custom and money in my pocket :)
[20:30:30] <r00t4rd3d> customer*
[20:30:32] <Valen> yer box r00t4rd3d?
[20:30:35] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[20:30:41] <r00t4rd3d> they just picked it up
[20:30:47] <Valen> tjb1: what problem are you having again?
[20:31:00] <r00t4rd3d> arent* fixed that for you.
[20:31:03] <tjb1> The once per session error and to run latency test
[20:31:32] <Valen> the once per session error isn't nescicarily bad
[20:31:44] <Valen> what hardware are you using
[20:31:49] <Valen> computer wise
[20:32:05] <r00t4rd3d> atom 525
[20:32:05] <tjb1> dell inspirion 4600
[20:32:10] <r00t4rd3d> oh nvm
[20:32:24] <r00t4rd3d> i thought you orded a atom 525?
[20:32:36] <tjb1> no
[20:32:39] <Valen> have you turned hyperthreading off?
[20:33:01] <tjb1> I doubt it, that done in the bios?
[20:33:05] <Valen> yeah
[20:33:09] <tjb1> Let me check it
[20:33:14] <Valen> if its a P4, turning HT off will help
[20:33:26] <Valen> or anything else i spose lol
[20:33:30] <Valen> HT is bad for latency
[20:33:31] <PCW> Valen you are running bare HBridges which are closer to velocity mode than torque mode
[20:33:37] <r00t4rd3d> damn, i just got another order.
[20:33:43] <r00t4rd3d> from CL.
[20:34:17] <Valen> PCW i spose, its more like a mix of everything though wouldn't it be?
[20:34:34] <Valen> i mean at stall you can put 24V across the motor and have no movement ;->
[20:34:46] <tjb1> Valen I cant get into the Bios...
[20:34:51] <tjb1> I hit F2 and it just loads Ubuntu
[20:35:00] <Valen> sure f2 is the bios key?
[20:35:08] <tjb1> Press F2 for setup
[20:36:10] <Valen> reboot it, and just keep hammering the key from the time you hit reboot ;->
[20:36:55] <tjb1> wireless keyboard maybe?
[20:37:02] <Valen> could be
[20:37:03] <tjb1> The problem I mean
[20:37:08] <Valen> if you have a PS2 keyboard try that
[20:37:12] <tjb1> Let me see if I can find a wired
[20:37:32] <Valen> Also try bashing F1, del and F10
[20:39:31] <Valen> note bashing is press and release
[20:39:45] <Valen> just holding it down will often get that key squelched
[20:42:05] <r00t4rd3d> on older computers it wont fire up the usb power till after it posts
[20:42:20] <tjb1> I have gotten into the bios before with a wireless
[20:42:24] <tjb1> It wont let me in at all now
[20:42:37] <Valen> dells of the P4 vintage should be ok with USB keyboards though
[20:43:01] <Valen> you can tell if you have HT on or off by "cat /proc/cpuinfo"
[20:43:04] <tjb1> Ignores the USB too
[20:43:08] <Valen> see how many CPUs it says you have
[20:43:26] <Valen> see if you can get the boot menu
[20:43:34] <Valen> you may have changed the usb keyboard mode too
[20:43:36] <tjb1> Nothing at all
[20:43:47] <Valen> sometimes you can lock yourself out of bios with usb keyboards that way
[20:44:20] <tjb1> I dont see anything in that about number of CPUs
[20:44:57] <Valen> see if it has one list of cpu info or two
[20:45:11] <tjb1> 1 list
[20:45:19] <tjb1> Pentium 4 CPU 2.80GHz
[20:45:41] <Valen> http://pastebin.com/NWZ5jLfe is for a 4 cpu with HT
[20:46:03] <Valen> see how it has all the processors listed
[20:46:22] <tjb1> I dont have the cpu cores or processors
[20:46:42] <Valen> do you have internet on that box?
[20:47:18] <tjb1> no
[20:47:24] <Valen> ahh
[20:47:59] <tjb1> Do you happen to know what I can do to reset the bios so I can enter it?
[20:47:59] <Valen> what does cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "processor" give you?
[20:48:12] <Valen> generally power off the machine
[20:48:18] <Valen> pull the cmos battery out
[20:48:23] <tjb1> 0
[20:48:40] <Valen> (by power off the machine i mean shut down then pull the power plug)
[20:48:45] <Valen> then tap the power button
[20:48:47] <Valen> then wait a minute
[20:48:58] <Valen> then put the battery and power plug back in and turn it on
[20:49:17] <Valen> but if you only have the one cpu then you dont have HT on
[20:49:24] <Valen> what is the cpu anyway?
[20:49:57] <tjb1> the pentium 4 2.8 GHz
[20:50:20] <Valen> well it sounds like you have HT off at first blush anyway
[20:51:18] <tjb1> Its performing auto IDE configuration now
[20:52:40] <tjb1> Wow, found a ps2 keyboard and it worked instant...
[20:52:46] <tjb1> What can I change to allow USB?
[20:52:48] <Valen> damn i'm good ;->
[20:53:05] <Valen> something about usb keyboard mode its generally called
[20:53:23] <tjb1> USB Controller and Emulation is on
[20:53:45] <Valen> try turning emulation off i guess
[20:53:51] <tjb1> Would it be the PXE BIS Default Policy?
[20:53:51] <Valen> does it tell you what it is?
[20:53:54] <Valen> the emulation?
[20:54:05] <Valen> nah leave that its probably unrelated
[20:54:10] <tjb1> The emulation is either On, Off, or No BOOT
[20:54:31] <Valen> eh change it to off i guess lol
[20:54:40] <Valen> with a ps2 keyboard it should be ok
[20:54:55] <tjb1> HT was off
[20:55:01] <Valen> yeah i thaught so
[20:55:55] <tjb1> Still ignored usb keyboard
[20:56:54] <Valen> dunno, don't worry about it too much
[20:57:03] <tjb1> Ill have to get a nice ps2 keyboard
[20:57:16] <Valen> eh you only need it for screwing with bios
[20:57:42] <tjb1> Im gonna try to see if there is a bios update
[20:58:02] <Valen> I wouldnt worry about it unless there is a problem
[20:58:05] <Valen> risky
[20:58:47] <tjb1> Alrighty then
[20:59:51] <tjb1> fast boot good or bad?
[21:01:22] <Valen> meh
[21:01:24] <Valen> leave it on
[21:01:25] <L84Supper> you could try the BIOS update if you have a backup flash device and if the flash is in a socket
[21:02:15] <tjb1> Its on the latest as far as I can tell
[21:02:24] <L84Supper> but you really be sure you know whats going on vs thinking that you'll be able to magically be able to recover if you make a mistake
[21:07:57] <tjb1> funny I can get into setup now with usb...
[21:08:33] <tjb1> and wireless...
[21:08:59] <tjb1> What could I expect to spend to build a new linux computer
[21:09:56] <Valen> around $100 for one of the dual core mini-itx atom boards ;->
[21:10:27] <tjb1> What else :P
[21:11:33] <Valen> what do you mean?
[21:11:39] <Valen> oh other stuff you need?
[21:11:53] <Valen> just rip the mbo out of the current machine and stick it in ;->
[21:11:59] <Valen> although i spose you need a sata disk
[21:12:03] <Valen> and some ram
[21:12:21] <r00t4rd3d> most of us use the Intel Atom D525MW.
[21:13:43] <r00t4rd3d> you can get the board and fill it with ram for 100 bucks
[21:14:20] <tjb1> alright
[21:14:33] <tjb1> Bunches faster I guess
[21:14:36] <gmouer> me and friends bought foxconns atom computers off ebay for $49 they are still there buy it now
[21:14:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-D525MW-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-w-Atom-525-CPU-/200542103383?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2eb13da757
[21:14:44] <tjb1> Mine turned into a jet when I remember to grab the 1gb ram I had at school
[21:15:21] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAMAXEL-4GB-DDR3-2x2GB-PC3-10600S-1333MHz-Laptop-Memory-Mac-Thinkpad-HP-Dell-RAM-/390477849804?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item5aea4b24cc
[21:15:26] <r00t4rd3d> board and memory
[21:15:33] <tjb1> There a box for that?
[21:15:35] <Valen> actually no, its probably not faster than the P4
[21:15:39] <Valen> about the same I'd say
[21:15:49] <Valen> but dual core gives one core for RT stuff
[21:16:09] <r00t4rd3d> i wouldnt do that
[21:16:19] <r00t4rd3d> with a 525 atleast
[21:17:06] <r00t4rd3d> someone around here tried dedicating one of the cores on a 525 and it didnt work out so well
[21:17:26] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: Is there a case for that mobo
[21:17:43] <r00t4rd3d> any mini itx case
[21:18:04] <tjb1> By the way, if you guys need any atv-utv help…let me know
[21:18:06] <Valen> or even full size case should do it
[21:18:10] <tjb1> I do know some things
[21:18:16] <Valen> atv-utv?
[21:18:21] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[21:18:25] <tjb1> fourwheelers and side by sides
[21:18:30] <r00t4rd3d> people use that case
[21:18:47] <r00t4rd3d> I do tons of small engine work
[21:19:03] <r00t4rd3d> mainly dirt bikes/chain saws/atv;s
[21:19:14] <tjb1> Ill have to build a nice little comp later on...
[21:19:41] <tjb1> Oh…cant get another parport on that d525 can you
[21:19:46] <r00t4rd3d> my 525 rocks linux or windows 7
[21:19:57] <r00t4rd3d> it has a pci slot
[21:20:28] <r00t4rd3d> so you could probably use a mesa card
[21:20:35] <Valen> or a pci pport card
[21:20:41] <Valen> but yeah, put a mesa card in
[21:20:44] <Valen> and own the winning!
[21:21:19] <tjb1> but mesa is soooo expensive :(
[21:21:28] <PCW> is not
[21:21:33] <r00t4rd3d> you dont have to mess with 525's at all, they just work.
[21:21:45] <Valen> lol PCW
[21:21:52] <Valen> mesa is cheap for what you get
[21:22:08] <tjb1> Not cheap compared to my $5 parport from ebay
[21:22:13] <tjb1> and a $20 b.o.b
[21:22:21] <gmouer> mesa expensive? got to be kidding! Buy some mach3 hardware, mesa is cheap and powerfull
[21:22:22] <Valen> cheap compared to a fanuc
[21:23:02] <Valen> mach3 has hardware?
[21:24:16] <ReadError> how much are those mesa boards?
[21:24:18] <gmouer> yea, smoothstepper board $165 C11G breakout board $125, C10 breakout board $35 mesa 7i77 replaced all that and gives tons more pins available with way better specs for quite a bit less money
[21:24:22] <ReadError> i couldnt find them for sale anywhere
[21:24:47] <gmouer> I have high res encoders on servos, Parallel port just can not go fast enough
[21:25:26] <gmouer> readerror: there are a bunch of different mesa board combo's so it depends on the application
[21:25:50] <ReadError> where can you even buy them?
[21:25:58] <gmouer> direct from mesa
[21:26:11] <jdh> just click add-to-cart and order them!
[21:26:21] <jdh> ok, that ws low.
[21:26:28] <Valen> their website is a little bit lacking in terms of user friendly ;->
[21:26:35] <gmouer> I have bought 2 combos in the last couple months, more in the near future
[21:27:10] <gmouer> how about 300ma capability on the output pins directly? thats darned nice !!!
[21:27:44] <gmouer> all current limited of course, shorts are no problem
[21:28:18] <PCW> credit goes to automotive grade driver chips
[21:28:51] <gmouer> PCW: yea but some designer had to be sharp enough to pick those chips! LOL
[21:29:09] <PCW> we should have a store online in a bit
[21:29:22] <jdh> that would be good and bad.
[21:29:58] <Valen> bad for your wallet jdh?
[21:30:11] <jdh> yeah, I'm bad about impulse purchases.
[21:30:11] <Valen> PCW consider offering usps for shipping please ;->
[21:30:27] <gmouer> only thing on my wishlist for the 7i77 and 76 would be breaking up the field power supply into more than one supply voltage, that would be handy, I know you mentioned to me that you are thinking about that
[21:31:43] <gmouer> even though just about all the pins in the typical retrofit are the same voltage, there is always that one or two that need 12V 5V or some other voltage.
[21:31:44] <PCW> Yes the 7I84 does that now and we will probably add that feature to newer board revs
[21:32:45] <gmouer> Pete, is that something I could possibly do cutting a trace or two on the board and running a new lead for a single output chip?
[21:32:52] <PCW> latest 7I77/7I76 firmware allows 5V field power and supports 5V MPG encoders on some field inputs (regardless of field voltage)
[21:33:14] <tjb1> What is xenable?
[21:34:08] <PCW> I dont think its would be good wired by hand (it sin the plane and bypassed now)
[21:34:40] <gmouer> just curious, I worked around it this time, the machine is up and running now
[21:35:11] <gmouer> I got 2 more friends that are mesa converts now too after they seen my setup
[21:35:32] <tjb1> Can someone explain why homing Z doesnt set it to 0 anymore
[21:35:45] <jdh> does it set it to whatever you have home set to?
[21:35:55] <PCW> We will get to it, probably the next board lot (take a look at 7I84 manual its basically the I/O part of a 7I77/7I76)
[21:35:59] <tjb1> no
[21:36:19] <jdh> mine does!
[21:36:51] <PCW> bbl ttgh
[21:36:57] <tjb1> fresh start of linuxcnc...
[21:37:05] <jdh> got a HOME_OFFSET?
[21:37:11] <tjb1> set to 0
[21:37:26] <tjb1> Z is currently saying it is at 4.2045
[21:37:35] <tjb1> I hit home and it brings up the home icon and stays at 4.2045
[21:37:47] <gmouer> Just remembered something I wanted to ask you Pete! Your H bridge modules seem to be setup for the 5i20 board for interfacing. Is there a easy way to interface them to a 5i25? All the stuff I bought is 5i25 based
[21:37:51] <jdh> sounds like you don't have homing enabled?
[21:38:22] <gmouer> tbj1 homing sets the machine coordinate to zero, you are looking at the G54 coordinate probably
[21:38:25] <tjb1> I dont have a sequence or any switches but it use to set Z to 0 but ever since I added a probe it doesnt work
[21:40:11] <gmouer> tbj1: go into machine, and zero the G54 coordinate system after homing, that will zero your Z display
[21:40:37] <jdh> what he said
[21:41:14] <tjb1> Way to verify its setting g53 to 0?
[21:41:46] <gmouer> the dro tab on the screen and you can see all the dros at once onscreen
[21:42:40] <jdh> g10 l2 p1 x0 y0 z0 maybe?
[21:42:59] <tjb1> x and y are 0, z is 4.2045
[21:43:04] <tjb1> g54 z is -3.180
[21:44:06] <gmouer> do the g54 zero I described above and X Y and Z will all be zero
[21:44:34] <jdh> doesn't really matter though
[21:44:44] <jdh> you will touch off to your work anyway won't you?
[21:45:13] <tjb1> gmouer: But this is going to affect the software limits
[21:45:27] <jdh> shouldn't
[21:45:53] <tjb1> well if the home is now 4" off I just lost 4 inch of travel
[21:45:55] <gmouer> software limits are in machine coordinates, they never change after homing, G54 has no effect on software limits
[21:46:17] <jdh> did you reset g54 to 0?
[21:46:29] <gmouer> unhome it, jog it back to the true zero and then rehome, you will get your lost 4" of travel back
[21:46:35] <r00t4rd3d> holy crap, Teensy 3.0 is tiny!
http://i.imgur.com/S5mkc.jpg
[21:47:08] <gmouer> you homed with the machine 4" off the end, thats why it set that as the new home position aka zero
[21:47:54] <gmouer> made all these same mistakes just last week, until I got my head wrapped around what was going on
[21:48:20] <tjb1> But isnt the point of home is it going to the switch and setting that to 0?
[21:48:33] <jdh> do you have a switch?
[21:48:39] <gmouer> whoa ! you have a home switch?
[21:48:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3.html
[21:48:51] <tjb1> Not hooked up at the moment
[21:49:01] <jdh> whereever you are when you hit home is your new home
[21:49:13] <gmouer> yup what he said
[21:49:15] <tjb1> The home in the ini is set to 0
[21:49:18] <jdh> the soft limits are relative to that
[21:49:20] <tjb1> not 4.2045
[21:49:33] <tjb1> I even moved the Z to a new number and it goes back to 4.2045
[21:50:18] <jdh> what does g10 l2 p1 z0 do?
[21:50:25] <tjb1> ugh and I cant turn the spindle off!
[21:50:29] <tjb1> m5 isnt doing anything to my output...
[21:50:53] <tjb1> does nothing jdh
[21:50:58] <jdh> dpesm
[21:51:05] <jdh> doesn't change teh displayed z?
[21:51:14] <tjb1> it hcnaged to 1.0245
[21:51:54] * r00t4rd3d hugs his simple setup :D
[21:52:34] <jdh> have you jogged after homing?
[21:52:57] <tjb1> yes
[21:53:11] <tjb1> I did g1 z0 f10.0
[21:53:15] <tjb1> then homed z and it set it to 1.0245
[21:54:08] <tjb1> then doing g1 z0 f10.0 moves it negative 1.0245
[21:54:28] <jdh> g53 g0 z0 , g92.1, home z, g54, g10 l2 p1 z0
[21:55:55] <tjb1> ok
[21:55:59] <tjb1> it zeroed and didnt change
[21:56:56] <jdh> I have a file similar to that (all axes) that wipes all offsets, tool offsets, etc for when I get confused.
[21:57:38] <tjb1> ok now why wont m5 turn off output?
[21:57:51] <tjb1> m3 s1 = continous continuity on the output
[21:57:55] <tjb1> m5 = beep beep beep beep beep
[22:01:22] <tjb1> Got it...
[22:01:44] <tjb1> Didnt have plasma ground hooked up and the wires were backwards apparently
[22:03:18] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[22:04:02] <tjb1> Hypertherm manual just says 3 and 4 are plasma start...
[22:04:06] <tjb1> doesnt say where they go
[22:34:56] <tjb1> Can someone help me with M66
[22:41:53] <jdh> Not me!
[22:43:17] <jdh> M66 P0 L3 (wait for digital input 0 to turn on)
[22:43:24] <jdh> looks easy enough though
[22:43:56] <tjb1> Nevermind I had the wrong L…good to go!
[22:44:03] <tjb1> Now have computer controlled arc, wait for pierce and move!
[22:44:12] <jdh> nifty
[22:44:17] <jdh> what will you be making?
[22:44:19] <tjb1> all in 8 weeks
[22:44:24] <tjb1> whatever someone pays for ;)
[22:45:24] <jdh> how about an ugly ragged outdoor table?
[22:46:07] <Valen> ragged to within .01mm!
[22:46:14] <tjb1> why ragged?
[22:46:22] <jdh> just ads I've seen
[22:46:48] <jdh> guess it wasn't so much ragged as ugly
[22:47:34] <tjb1> for plasma or the outdoor table you seen
[22:48:17] <jdh> plasma cam ad in home machinist mag or whatever
[22:48:37] <tjb1> That thing they fold?
[22:48:49] <tjb1> cut out of like a 4x4 sheet and bend half of it
[22:48:55] <jdh> yeah
[22:49:28] <tjb1> plasmacam is over rated...
[22:49:37] <jdh> http://www.plasmacam.com/images/orniron/02-02-OI-Carriage_Table.gif
[22:49:39] <jdh> or that
[22:49:43] <tjb1> all they talk about are servos and I havent figured out how they fire the hand torch
[22:50:18] <tjb1> You cant fire a hypertherm hand torch without modifying the machine
[22:50:32] <Valen> bigass solenoid?
[22:50:33] <tjb1> but look here -
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/torchholder.jpg
[22:51:14] <tjb1> So I guess they advise people who buy their system how to open the machine and modify it?
[22:51:26] <Valen> why would you need to do that?
[22:51:36] <Valen> could you not just put a solenoid on the trigger?
[22:51:43] <Valen> i mean its on/off right?
[22:52:02] <tjb1> to push trigger on and off?
[22:52:15] <tjb1> they have wire ties on the trigger in the ad I seen
[22:54:32] <jdh> nifty, but I can't see ever having room for one.
[22:54:51] <jdh> and I spent my extra cash on a Shrimp last week
[22:55:19] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[22:55:24] <tjb1> http://www.facebook.com/v/4435982933679
[22:55:28] <tjb1> Can you see that?
[22:55:52] <Valen> I have been pondering getting a mini tig/stick/plasma combo
[22:55:52] <jdh> looks like a way overbuilt z
[22:56:13] <r00t4rd3d> LMFAO
[22:56:29] <tjb1> How is it overbuilt?
[22:57:04] <Valen> seems like a weird way of probing the height
[22:57:11] <jdh> it only has to support the weight of the torch and the cable?
[22:57:22] <tjb1> Its a router too jdh
[22:57:42] <jdh> oh. not over built for a router
[22:58:00] <tjb1> that plate with the linear slides comes off and the router bolts in its place
[22:58:06] <jdh> how high above the work do you have to keep the torch?
[22:58:26] <tjb1> .160 for pierce and .08 for cut
[22:58:38] <tjb1> But I cant do that with the current shield because it is preset for that for hand cutting
[23:00:20] <tjb1> Valen, why a weird way to probe height?
[23:00:22] <tjb1> ugh...
[23:00:35] <tjb1> And what are you laughing about r00t4rd3d
[23:00:47] <tjb1> Youll get your $1,000 side plates earlier now ;)
[23:03:15] <jdh> http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerPro-Plasma-Cutter-Process/dp/B0081BF1AE
[23:03:17] <jdh> junk?
[23:03:47] <tjb1> I read they are very noisy
[23:04:04] <r00t4rd3d> what isnt
[23:04:08] <tjb1> hypertherm
[23:04:09] <r00t4rd3d> penicl
[23:04:15] <r00t4rd3d> pencil*
[23:04:34] <tjb1> jdh: What amp is the plasma?
[23:04:43] <r00t4rd3d> 250
[23:04:52] <r00t4rd3d> err 60a plasma
[23:05:12] <tjb1> Where did you find 60
[23:05:25] <tjb1> oh in the title...
[23:05:42] <tjb1> Depending on how good it is…it should cut about 3/4
[23:05:44] <jdh> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerPro-256-3909-pd.html
[23:06:07] <jdh> do you use air with a plasma cutter?
[23:06:25] <r00t4rd3d> water
[23:06:34] <tjb1> yes air
[23:06:47] <jdh> always, or just to help?
[23:06:54] <tjb1> it requires air to blow slag
[23:06:57] <r00t4rd3d> is a water table a requirement also?
[23:07:00] <tjb1> no
[23:07:19] <tjb1> plasmacam doesnt have water table or down draft
[23:07:27] <tjb1> just blows everything onto the floor and fills shop with smoke :P
[23:07:32] <jdh> seems like the water would help to stop the fires.
[23:07:46] <tjb1> water is just to contain the smoke/dust
[23:08:02] <tjb1> and cool parts
[23:08:15] <r00t4rd3d> what are the cool parts?
[23:08:25] <tjb1> your face in a minute ;)
[23:08:58] <tjb1> When you getting a super pid?
[23:09:05] <r00t4rd3d> i need to go do some sanding
[23:09:14] <jdh> tehy sell cheaper ones too, 40 and 50 amp plasma... Most only do DC TIG though
[23:09:19] <tjb1> Wouldnt have to sand if you set your router up correctly
[23:09:29] <r00t4rd3d> nothing to do with my machine yet
[23:09:50] <tjb1> jdh I would really recommend you get a hypertherm if you want a plasma cutter
[23:09:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/roMJt.jpg
[23:10:13] <jdh> I don't really need anything. I would prefer an AC/DC TIG over a plasma cutter.
[23:10:23] <jdh> but, if it also cut, that would be cool
[23:11:22] <tjb1> we have a lincoln precision tig 225
[23:11:37] <tjb1> probably out of your price range but its nice
[23:11:47] <r00t4rd3d> you calling him welfare?
[23:12:02] <tjb1> no...
[23:12:51] <r00t4rd3d> you see that board i linked?
[23:12:58] <jdh> made it yourself?
[23:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> thats all glued together
[23:13:08] <r00t4rd3d> glue and trim nailed
[23:13:14] <tjb1> jdh, are those everlast inverter tigs?
[23:13:26] <jdh> yeah, igbt
[23:13:53] <tjb1> the lincoln is a transformer and its pretty big..
[23:13:56] <tjb1> weighs like 400#
[23:14:02] <jdh> that exhausts all of my weld/wtf knowledge.
[23:14:16] <jdh> r00t: you need a thickness planer
[23:14:19] <tjb1> check out harrisweldingsupplies
[23:14:27] <jdh> someday
[23:14:42] <r00t4rd3d> i have one, i like the belt sander plainer better
[23:14:49] <jdh> first I want to convert one of my lathes, build a 3d printer, buy a laser cutter... then maybe a welder
[23:15:00] <tjb1> jdh:
http://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/
[23:15:06] <tjb1> You ever done TIG?
[23:15:08] <jdh> belt sander is a lot easier
[23:15:08] <tjb1> Its pretty hard
[23:15:17] <jdh> I've never welded anything by hand.
[23:15:23] <tjb1> Should get a MIG
[23:15:23] <t12> tig's only really hard if you want it to look beautiful or be food grade
[23:15:39] <t12> or be good for really high pressure
[23:15:40] <r00t4rd3d> thats what a file is for
[23:15:53] <tjb1> File? Grinder with a flap wheel :P
[23:16:07] <jdh> I have TIG welded hundreds of thousands of zirconium tubes though.
[23:16:22] <jdh> and laser welded them, and resistance welded them.
[23:16:24] <tjb1> with a robot?
[23:16:32] <jdh> more or less
[23:17:19] <tjb1> Im working on a 3d printer to build in the spring
[23:17:21] <jdh> resistance is easy, squeeze it really tight, pump 11,000 amps through it
[23:21:33] <tjb1> did you find a design yet jdh
[23:52:18] <tjb1> Valen, whats weird about the touch off?
[23:53:46] <Valen> the way you drive down and lift the plate untill you hit the stop
[23:53:56] <Valen> i would have thaught you would just have a swith
[23:54:00] <Valen> switch
[23:54:04] <Valen> that hit the job
[23:54:13] <Valen> no additional slide
[23:55:18] <r00t4rd3d> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/27425-A-mill-camera
[23:55:25] <r00t4rd3d> thats cool
[23:55:29] <tjb1> but then the switch is in the way
[23:56:27] <Valen> we have one like that but its mounted to the head and offset
[23:56:36] <Valen> so we don't need to put it in and out
[23:56:44] <tjb1> I need 2 line laser for location now ;)
[23:57:09] <Valen> use a camera of xy positioning
[23:57:18] <Valen> even integrates into axis for more win
[23:57:46] <Valen> you can line up on a hole then
[23:58:02] <Valen> why would the switch need to be in the way tjb1?
[23:58:41] <tjb1> for the switch to probe the surface it would need to be same plane as the torch head
[23:59:13] <Valen> yeah but you have the torch some distance from the work no?
[23:59:19] <tjb1> .06
[23:59:28] <Valen> what units is that?
[23:59:30] <tjb1> inch
[23:59:44] <tjb1> 1.5 mm
[23:59:49] <Valen> gees thats a whole 1.5mm what you bitching about ;-P
