#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-03

[00:01:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMK45nYx4oc
[01:45:22] <uw> morning morning morning yay first
[01:57:34] <WillenCMD> i doubt there is anyone on here at this time a night to answer this but, after i build and install rtai, if i re-make my kernel and change settings i don't have to build it again do i?
[01:57:57] <WillenCMD> build rtai again not the kernel
[02:39:09] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:06:34] * mrsun has a problem .. i have a house .. and a foundation ... problem is that the house stands on H beams on the side of the foundation .. with about 1.5 meters sticking out on each side, i need to move this house over the foundation without resorting to a mobile crane ... to little space for machines to move around the sides of the foundation ... :/
[03:09:06] <archivist> there are sliding jacks for that sort of work
[03:10:10] <archivist> http://www.billboley.co.uk/
[03:12:40] <mrsun> i wonder how far out the insulation on the house foundation goes, dont know if that manages to carry the load or if it gets destroyed under the gravel else i was thinking of using palettes and wooden beams to slide it over the foundation then lift it down gently with hydraulic jacks
[03:14:07] <mrsun> 1200x400 .. and i guess its laying so that it sticks out 400 .. that would give me a working area of 1 meter on each side, that realy should be enough
[03:14:33] <mrsun> just make some sliding shoes for the H beams so they dont dig into the wood and drag the thing over :P
[03:15:14] <mrsun> i freakin hate working with this heavy stuff .. the move of the house (about 20km on small roads) went fine atleast =)
[03:15:27] <mrsun> alot of moving damage inside tho :(
[03:15:59] <archivist> rollers and winches, dot forget winches both ends so it does not run away
[03:16:40] <mrsun> dont like rollers :P
[03:16:47] <archivist> I do :)
[03:16:53] <mrsun> it should slide just fine with some force steel to wood
[03:17:04] <mrsun> with sliding shoes under the H beams like i said
[03:17:21] <archivist> I move all my machinery with rollers
[03:17:24] <mrsun> alot of good friction so it just wont go =)
[03:18:20] <archivist> a brake winch as well as a pulling winch
[03:18:43] <mrsun> it has to move 6 meters sideways also =)
[03:19:40] <archivist> weight?
[03:21:48] <mrsun> archivist, well read some figures that its about 250kg/m2 so about 13 tonnes
[03:22:07] <mrsun> the one driving yesterday thought it was about 10 - 11 tones
[03:22:07] <archivist> not too heavy then
[03:22:20] <mrsun> tonn
[03:22:27] <mrsun> stupid .. ton = 900kg ... tonn = 1000kg :P
[03:22:33] <mrsun> its the 1000 kg variety :P
[03:22:37] <mrsun> archivist, nah
[03:22:45] <archivist> ton =2240lbs!
[03:23:30] <mrsun> 2024.6lb is the tonnes i talk about :P
[03:23:37] <mrsun> 2202
[03:23:39] <mrsun> 2204
[03:23:40] <mrsun> dammit =)
[03:24:05] <archivist> the two are closer than you think
[03:25:23] <Jymmm\AE> archivist: I wasn't sure if you were around earlier, but did you see the "Fire Control Computer" link?
[03:25:47] <archivist> Jymmm\AE, yes, too long for me to watch
[03:26:16] <Jymmm\AE> archivist: Ah, yeah 40m.
[03:27:08] <archivist> stupid isp and their 10gb a month or charge extra
[03:27:24] <mrsun> http://imagebin.org/230725 configuration is like that, where the grey is the foundation, blue is the house and red is the H beams =)
[03:27:30] <Jymmm\AE> ouch
[03:27:38] <mrsun> so just need to be lifted up above the foundation and slided sideways i think =)
[03:29:53] <mrsun> the one building the foundation should have waited with putting the insulation in place ... so we would have a good solid ground to do this thing on =)
[03:33:51] <archivist> I build tracks of some sort to spread the load and run along, often wood
[03:34:44] <archivist> also under the track will be a load spreader if the ground needs it
[03:37:37] <archivist> I hope you are taking pictures :)
[03:38:11] <mrsun> archivist, i am the move ive taken pictures of, the first part of the move i wasnt with on .. and that was good cause iw ould have had a heart attack :P
[03:38:30] <mrsun> my nerves doesnt like houses flying 1.5 meters above ground with below center lifting point :P
[03:38:53] <mrsun> between two loaders
[04:43:24] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:33:29] <pilla_> Hi :) Sorry for poofing yesterday
[05:33:48] <pilla_> My prof came in and was all like "hi I need that pc for my class"
[05:38:17] <pilla_> How to figure out if a certain CNC miller (the CNC3020t in this case) has a home switch?
[05:38:45] <archivist> your eyes
[05:39:11] <pilla_> Where to look :)
[05:40:25] <Loetmichel> usually ant the end of the Travel
[05:40:33] <Loetmichel> mostly on the left end ;-)
[05:40:46] <archivist> next you will be wanting us to come over and look for you
[05:41:03] <pilla_> :D
[05:42:11] <pilla_> Sorry for being an absolute noob ;) I'm interested in learning, but I'm coming from absolutely nowhere
[05:43:08] <archivist> I understand, but for some things one has to actually look at the item or read its manual
[05:43:47] <archivist> or even take it apart to see how it works
[05:43:51] <pilla_> The problem is that it came without manual
[05:44:07] <pilla_> And I don't think my prof would be amused if I took it apart
[05:44:54] <pilla_> So I guess that if the cable that goes into the control box has 4 pins, there should be a home switch? ...right?
[05:45:40] <archivist> one of these ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-3020-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-/110698918637
[05:45:55] <pilla_> Yep
[05:47:50] <pilla_> I can't seem to find much (with explanation that I understand) info about it
[05:50:22] <archivist> that ebay link has a manual you can download
[05:51:31] <pilla_> I completely overlooked that big suspicious red text. Thank you!
[05:52:12] <archivist> now you realise what using ones eyes is about :)
[05:53:36] <archivist> now do some exploration on the back of your control box and follow the limit socket and any wiring
[05:56:03] <pilla_> My control box seems to be different. No Limit-In port
[05:56:40] <archivist> the ebay auction also has enough pictures to show any limit switches...none
[05:56:57] <pilla_> The manual itself has a picture with a limit-in port
[05:57:07] <archivist> I saw that
[05:57:30] <archivist> so just manually home the machine
[05:57:57] * archivist has to go out
[05:58:08] <pilla_> ty :)
[06:03:10] <pilla_> so actually it seems I have to control my spindle directly, I have 3 axes with 4 pins into control box. As a parallel cable has place for some input ports, it shouldn't be too difficult to build in a home switch? Might be a good project after I understand what I'm doing XD
[07:01:31] <mk0> djdelorie, is that you tried to install sim on 12.04 yesterday?
[07:31:47] <mutilator> really to me something i could just mount my dremel inside would be nice
[07:37:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.microcarve.com/mcMV1.html
[07:37:39] <r00t4rd3d> mutilator, ^^
[07:38:12] <r00t4rd3d> Not sure how you went from a 2k budget to Dremel but whatever.
[07:39:48] <mutilator> yea
[07:41:46] <r00t4rd3d> you would be better off with a proxxon
[07:42:44] <r00t4rd3d> My buddy grinds his toe nails with a dremel.
[07:46:10] <mutilator> heh
[07:47:25] <mutilator> well i really dont know what i'm looking for, something to start with figured i;d just set a lowish price and see what it brought me and go from there
[07:48:06] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[07:48:07] <logger[psha]> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-10-03.html
[07:57:35] <Tom_itx> dremel does not make a mill
[08:00:42] <archivist> unless you take out the dremels motor and remount in a sensible case with better bearings
[08:06:16] <jdh> bah... spindle snobs.
[08:06:49] <jdh> dremel is fine as long as you are aware of it being a dremel and don't expect more than dremel quality.
[08:07:16] <skunkworks> heh
[08:08:03] <archivist> I had one let go at full revs one day :)
[08:08:20] <jdh> cool, what parts went flying?
[08:08:52] <archivist> a segment fell out the commutator
[08:09:16] <syyl_tb-> duck and cover? ;)
[08:09:16] <archivist> I do prefer them to the proxon rubbish
[08:09:31] <syyl_tb-> i prefer a real spindle...š
[08:09:57] <archivist> the part didnt come out the case so was a safe death
[08:09:58] <syyl_tb-> one can build a spindle for cheap, that stands a lot more than a dremel/proxxon
[08:10:24] <jdh> you want to put a $2000 0.0001" runout 40krpm spindle on an MDF machine with sloppy acme screws?
[08:10:48] <syyl_tb-> i would build a spindle for 100 bucks
[08:10:53] <archivist> ER spindle and a rc bldc motor
[08:11:08] <syyl_tb-> for example
[08:11:27] <syyl_tb-> or overturn a normal asynchronus motor
[08:11:37] <jdh> that would be a good second spindle.
[08:11:42] <jdh> or third.
[08:11:42] <syyl_tb-> or build a spindle with flat belt drive..
[08:11:44] <syyl_tb-> or...
[08:11:46] <syyl_tb-> whatever :D
[08:19:33] <jdh> what kind of bearings/blocks for a mounting an ER spindle?
[08:20:04] <Loetmichel> depends
[08:20:25] <Loetmichel> my small spindles have two simple 608zz
[08:20:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- will be mounted here:
[08:21:08] <archivist> preload them a bit, should be good enough for most work
[08:21:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12797
[08:21:41] <Loetmichel> instead of the proxxon shaft
[08:22:03] <Loetmichel> will be loohing like this when done: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[08:22:15] <Loetmichel> looking.
[08:22:32] <Loetmichel> just with some 2mm lexan cover
[08:22:52] <jdh> if you are willing to use a dremel/proxxon, you probably don't have any way to make bearing blocks or associated hardware.
[08:23:26] <jdh> just the two radial bearings?
[08:23:29] <Loetmichel> all you need is a small lathe and a file ;)
[08:23:34] <Loetmichel> jdh: right
[08:23:53] <Loetmichel> (and a drill/tap)
[08:25:09] <skunkworks> we are using a wheel balancing motor for one spindle (10kish rpm iirc)
[08:25:10] <Loetmichel> but the dremel motors are not suitable to mount in another case because the case IS the motor
[08:25:38] <Loetmichel> i.e: if you omit the case the motor has no bearing blocks left
[08:25:39] <jdh> how do you handle the axial load?
[08:25:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=284
[08:25:55] <archivist> I have an ER16 on a 1/2" shaft here waiting for a round tuit to be made into a cheap spindle
[08:26:19] <Loetmichel> jdh: a bit if axial load isnt a problem for 2 preloaded radial bearings
[08:26:29] <Loetmichel> especially if biog enough
[08:26:31] <Loetmichel> big
[08:27:30] <jdh> just load the 'outside' of each bearing?
[08:28:14] <jdh> I see cheapish er16/20 spindle shafts on ebay, but all chinese.
[08:28:14] <Loetmichel> no, the inside
[08:29:02] <Loetmichel> outside sits in the bearing block , inside is pressed together by the er11 shaft/the coupling
[08:29:51] <Loetmichel> it may be a good idea to throw a small rubber o-ring between upper bearing and coupling to get some kind of smothed force even if the shaft heats up
[08:30:09] <Loetmichel> and elongates
[08:31:24] <archivist> could use three cheap bearings, two at head end with a shim to set preload and one sliding at the rear
[08:32:42] <Loetmichel> could. but for an er11 shaft that would be "using cannons to shoot sparrows" like we say in germany ;-)
[08:33:52] <jdh> I'll have to consider that for an add-on high speed spindle.
[08:35:08] <Loetmichel> i thinkt the corresonding english proverb woud be "to break a fly on the wheel", right?
[08:35:24] <Loetmichel> +p
[08:35:31] <archivist> but for cheap angular contact bearings designed for preload car wheel bearings
[08:36:25] <archivist> no, it is "use a sledge hammer to crack a nut"
[08:36:44] <Loetmichel> archivist: ok, noted ;-)
[08:38:18] <archivist> an edible nut that is, not a large rusted up threaded nut where a sledge does get used :)
[08:38:45] <Loetmichel> i had imagined that ;-)
[08:38:59] <Loetmichel> i am not THAT blonde (any more) ;-)
[08:39:57] <pcw_home> also "use a hammer to swat a fly"
[08:41:56] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: if oyu can swat a (living) fly with a hammer you are a VERY skilled person :)
[08:42:20] <Loetmichel> ... and FAST ;-)
[08:45:51] <FinboySlick> archivist: I got the column lined up.
[08:46:28] <FinboySlick> It took quite a bit more shimming than I expected.
[08:59:41] <ScribbleJ> The flies around here have lost their will to live. They don't even try to get out of the way. I don't understand it.
[09:14:33] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: http://a.d-cd.net/ecd9cu-960.jpg http://a.d-cd.net/552d9cu-960.jpg
[09:15:24] <Loetmichel> ScribbleJ: Heizung kaputt?
[09:15:33] <Loetmichel> wenns kalt wird werden fliegen langsam ;-)
[09:15:38] <Loetmichel> oh sorry
[09:16:02] <Loetmichel> ScribbleJ: heater dead? if it gets cold the flys get slow
[09:16:55] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: simply a table with laptop, and couple of bikes
[09:18:05] <mazafaka> which could produce true German excitement though :)
[09:42:16] <archivist> FinboySlick, good
[09:42:46] <FinboySlick> archivist: The head is still way out of tram though, and it's pinned in place, bastards :P
[09:45:10] <archivist> also double check methods, did the column shimming put the head out, can you measure spindle axis to z axis properly
[09:48:26] <FinboySlick> archivist: Hmmmm... I'm sure any movement in the column put the head out, Doesn't look all that much worse than before I straightened it though. Maybe it was misaligned in the other directions.
[09:49:11] <FinboySlick> archivist: I've got an indicator in the spindle doing a ~4" circle on the table.
[09:50:03] <FinboySlick> I think the worse measurement is about 0.01" difference side to side.
[09:53:03] <archivist> I did see the amount you shimmed the column, seems a lot
[09:53:17] <archivist> did you over do it
[09:53:59] <FinboySlick> archivist: It was progressive.
[09:54:01] <archivist> what we cannot know is how the chinese make the machine
[09:54:18] <syyl_tb-> chiseling?
[09:54:26] <syyl_tb-> at least my lathe looked like that..
[09:55:38] <archivist> for a 1k$ machine I expect shite but not 8K machine
[09:56:20] <syyl_tb-> thats the problem :/
[09:58:01] <archivist> have they just fitted the Z rails to the column incorrectly
[10:00:28] <FinboySlick> archivist: I wouldn't dare touching the rails anyway but it doesn't look like it.
[10:01:55] <archivist> I would be using a level like I linked yesterday to check them with reference to the bed
[10:04:14] <FinboySlick> archivist: Travel along both sides of the square is spot on.
[10:04:54] <archivist> and reverse the square retest
[10:05:04] <FinboySlick> That's what I mean by both sides.
[10:06:29] <FinboySlick> I measured error in the square to be about half a thou over 6"
[10:08:12] <FinboySlick> So I tweaked until I had a quarter thou on both the forward and reverse test.
[10:08:31] <archivist> ok
[10:08:42] <FinboySlick> (I can get that difference just tightening the bolts a tad more/less.
[10:09:18] <archivist> or just pushing the column with your little finger
[10:09:43] <FinboySlick> I'll have to check that ;)
[10:10:47] <archivist> it is an "interesting" check
[10:11:26] <FinboySlick> archivist: I either have a rigidity problem in the mill or my finger if that works.
[10:11:32] <archivist> everything is elastic, it is just the amount
[10:12:25] <archivist> it is why professional machines have huge columns
[10:13:05] <FinboySlick> Yeah. This one is a fairly large cast-iron piece considering the size of the machine.
[10:13:34] <FinboySlick> I'll definitely try your finger check when I get home tonight though.
[10:14:23] <archivist> my 5 axis would spring about 9 thou when first built, I had to stiffen the column
[10:14:52] <FinboySlick> One thing that surprised me while shimming is that it stood on its own despite the bolt being loosened, I had to tilt it to insert the shim. I expected it to nod forward due to the weight of the head.
[10:15:28] <FinboySlick> I think this has to do with the 'counterweight' spring though.
[10:15:52] <archivist> I have a test indicator on a stand that works to 100ths of a thou and that senses a little finger easily even though it has a solid column
[10:18:16] <FinboySlick> archivist: I believe you... I'll be pretty happy when I get to the point where I can/need to measure within 1/100 thou.
[10:18:55] <archivist> never had a lot of use for it at all
[10:19:51] <pcw_home> thats less than a wavelength of light
[10:20:36] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'm not too keen on having to remove the head... I guess it'll be the weekend project.
[10:21:08] <archivist> its main use is teaching me how flexible a bit of steel is
[10:23:35] <archivist> which reminds me, who has hidden my gauge blocks...not seen them for a long while
[10:27:07] <mrsun> hmm friction steel to steel is 0.0005m, steel on wood is 0.0056m
[10:47:37] <mutilator> r00t4rd3d?
[11:30:50] <mutilator> ok
[11:30:51] <mutilator> so
[11:31:51] <mutilator> this fireball v90 has mounts for 3 diff spindles, bosch colt, dwealt 611 and rigid 2401
[11:32:06] <mutilator> looks like each have their own issues (thought i cant find much on rigid at all)
[11:54:19] <IchGuckLive> Hi all :D
[11:55:13] <tjb1> ello.
[11:56:28] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: rail holepitch found
[11:56:44] <tjb1> Yeah I got that part made…I have to rework my Z axis though
[12:00:53] <IchGuckLive> Oftopic someone knows how to get in openoffice calc out of A1=18 ,B1=24 -> 18:24
[12:03:42] <skunkworks> =a1&":"b1
[12:03:47] <skunkworks> =a1&":"&b1
[12:04:03] <IchGuckLive> there is a time Fx
[12:04:10] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[12:04:18] <IchGuckLive> =ZEIT(E1;F1;0)
[12:12:00] <tjb1> Cant wait until tomorrow!
[12:12:02] <tjb1> Gonna be awesome
[12:30:01] <ffifrit> Hi, I have a question about linuxcnc. I was planning to use it commercially but I don't understand the GNU license. Is it possible?
[12:32:51] <IchGuckLive> ffifrit: ask this in linuxcnc-devel channel
[12:33:03] <ffifrit> Thanks
[12:33:03] <IchGuckLive> there are the DEVs
[13:01:00] <IchGuckLive> in off By
[13:24:46] <cradek> ffifrit: none of us here can give your company legal advise, but can you be more specific about which clause in the GPL you don't understand?
[13:27:15] <cpresser> ffifrit: basically you are able to sell a GPLed Software. But you are required to provide the full source code on request. But if you actually want to sell it, ask a lawyer :)
[13:33:17] <djdelorie> fiffrit: and remember, Richard Stallman used to make a living selling Free Software. If he can do it, you can too :-)
[14:06:17] <WillenCMD> So built rtai on gentoo last night, and im seeing some seriously atrocious latencies
[14:06:30] <WillenCMD> Im hoping its just a kernel config setting or a driver
[14:07:24] <WillenCMD> The kernel seems to load every driver known to man, how do i edit the drivers and modules it loads? i disabled everything that didn't apply to my pc in the config
[14:07:54] <andypugh> Does it seem reasonable to limit the LCD display driver I am working on to 19 decimal digits?
[14:08:02] <cradek> it's usually a bios setting or hardware problem.
[14:08:18] <andypugh> (you probably want a decimal point, and I don't know of many more than 20 chars wide)
[14:08:33] <WillenCMD> I know its not a hardware or bios issue because using the linuxcnc distro of ubuntu 10.04 i see great latencies with no overruns
[14:08:49] <cradek> aha, problem solved then :-)
[14:08:55] <WillenCMD> lol
[14:09:28] <andypugh> The reason being that I can get 19 decimal digits into a long int, and eliminate a bunch of floating point operations.
[14:09:34] <WillenCMD> nevertheless im still stumped
[14:10:25] <WillenCMD> Im thinking it could be a video driver error
[14:10:39] <WillenCMD> that is i haven't configured it yet to make sure it was using the right one
[14:37:01] <alex_joni> WillenCMD: you probably need to rebuilt the kernel
[14:37:07] <alex_joni> and try to disable most of ACPI
[14:37:16] <alex_joni> but be warned that it's a daunting process
[14:37:31] <alex_joni> so you might not get it right in the first 2-3 tries
[15:15:40] <sliptonic> JT-Shop: I'm starting to tune the configuration for my machine. I've calculated the scale value for the hal block but I'm confused by the 'scale=8000' in the .ini file.
[15:15:49] <sliptonic> I don't see documentation of that in the manual.
[15:43:56] <tjb1> sliptonic: servo or stepper?
[15:44:36] <tjb1> Regardless…Page 22 - http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/LinuxCNC_Integrator_Manual.pdf
[15:44:50] <tjb1> Actual page 22, not page 22 of the PDF itself.
[15:49:07] <tjb1> or if that PDF is too big to download, here is a SS of that page - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/Screen%20Shot%202012-10-03%20at%204.36.44%20PM.png
[16:04:01] <tjb1> sliptonic: Did you get those?
[16:07:40] <WillenCMD> +alex_joni: tell me about it i have rebuild the kernel 3 times already and i can't stand waiting for it
[16:12:21] <WillenCMD> where can i find the standord rtai config used by linux cnc
[16:12:39] <WillenCMD> the one that is used by the built cd's
[16:13:13] <tjb1> Somewhere on the internet
[16:13:16] <tjb1> :)
[16:14:37] <WillenCMD> thanks for narrowing it down for me
[16:14:43] <tjb1> No problem!
[16:14:50] <WillenCMD> now i don't have to check the car or my house
[16:15:11] <micges> WillenCMD: in /boot directory
[16:16:20] <micges> http://www.filebin.ca/Hs3WrtXtY3w/config-2.6.32-122-rtai
[16:16:50] <skunkworks> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=infrastructure.git;a=tree;f=livecd/kernels/hardy;h=630b19a6b1f3b7d43ba1dbc46fa988beadbca8d5;hb=HEAD
[16:16:59] <skunkworks> maybe?
[16:17:19] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:18:21] <WillenCMD> micges: thanks
[16:19:15] <WillenCMD> i have been trying to compare xenomai against rtai, but i haven't been able to find any benchmark comparison's, just individual's thoughts on the two
[16:20:24] <micges> what are you compare? latency?
[16:20:55] <WillenCMD> yes, xenomai seems like a pretty good alternative
[16:21:18] <WillenCMD> also they seem to keep updates more regular than rtai
[16:21:46] <micges> yes
[16:22:06] <micges> but latency is little worse
[16:22:15] <WillenCMD> thats what i have heard
[16:22:56] <micges> probably there will be xenomai support in 2.6.0
[16:22:57] <sliptonic> tjb1: Sorry, stepped away to the machine for a bit. Thanks.
[16:23:08] <micges> and rt-preempt also
[16:23:27] <WillenCMD> i also feel rtai has a more broad API spectrum than xenomai, being that it also supports Python and includes a hefty set of examples.
[16:23:31] <micges> I hope we will have enough time to do this ;)
[16:24:43] <WillenCMD> the more i learn, the more i wan't to do more, how much of an undertaking would a port to the new 3.0 kernel take, as far as i can see it isn't even being discussed by the rtai developers
[16:25:23] <micges> it was
[16:25:45] <micges> Paolo said that he is working on supporting 3.x kernels by rtai
[16:26:15] <micges> but he also said that he has many 'daytime' duties
[16:26:17] <cradek> he's talked about it for many months and says he has parts done
[16:26:20] <andypugh> In fact, he was going to spend August at it.
[16:26:42] <r00t4rd3d> vertical mouse, not mine:
[16:26:42] <WillenCMD> is there a blog you follow?
[16:26:43] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/TeZxT.jpg
[16:26:53] <cradek> the rtai mailing list
[16:27:07] <WillenCMD> ahhh, i guess i'll sign up
[16:27:44] <r00t4rd3d> no luck with gentoo?
[16:28:01] <WillenCMD> no, i got it up and running, but horrible latency... i was up untill 3 in the morning
[16:28:05] <WillenCMD> thats 2 nights in a row
[16:28:09] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[16:28:19] <WillenCMD> its alot of fun though
[16:28:24] <r00t4rd3d> oh im sure
[16:28:28] <WillenCMD> so challenging, i can't tear my self away
[16:28:45] <WillenCMD> seriously the more problems i have with something the more i want to know about it
[16:28:51] <r00t4rd3d> the first couple times building stuff from scratch is sorta fun.
[16:30:17] <WillenCMD> my mom works for Elsevier the publishing company, i was about to buy a the 3rd edition of http://www.amazon.com/Embedded-Real-time-Applications-Edition-Technology/dp/0124159966/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
[16:30:39] <WillenCMD> then i realized it was her company, called her up and got a free copy :)
[16:30:51] <WillenCMD> not "her company" but her employer
[16:31:04] <WillenCMD> i can't wait to read it
[16:31:20] <r00t4rd3d> probably wont be that useful
[16:31:27] <WillenCMD> i read an entier C programming book on my trip to chicago 2 weeks ago
[16:31:32] <WillenCMD> entire*
[16:31:50] <r00t4rd3d> that book is for embedded systems
[16:31:59] <WillenCMD> i know
[16:32:05] <r00t4rd3d> arm stuff
[16:32:09] <andypugh> That has a fair bit in common with HAL
[16:32:21] <WillenCMD> not all of it though
[16:32:22] <r00t4rd3d> im sure you would learn from it
[16:32:43] <r00t4rd3d> but will it help you getting lxcnc running on gentoo? probably not.
[16:32:52] <WillenCMD> oh i know that
[16:33:13] <WillenCMD> im hoping it will help with my knowledge in real time system's and developing software for them
[16:33:37] <r00t4rd3d> becoming Linus's best friend would be a better endeavor.
[16:33:39] <WillenCMD> always looking to improve my linuxcnc sprinkler system latency
[16:34:05] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a raspberry pi?
[16:34:15] <WillenCMD> no, im not much of a deserts person
[16:34:42] <WillenCMD> :)
[16:35:17] <WillenCMD> i do have a xilinx development board that i bought 6 months ago, and soon realized was over my head at the time
[16:36:19] <WillenCMD> but i have been reading some literature on and off, and i am about ready to dust it off, Im just in the middle of this linuxcnc main gui, new configuration program for hal
[16:36:51] <r00t4rd3d> I wonder if Linus could have LinuxCNC up and running on any distro in minutes....
[16:37:02] <r00t4rd3d> or atleast a rt kernel
[16:37:12] <WillenCMD> probably not, he's probably tired of hearing about it
[16:37:23] <r00t4rd3d> probably never hears about it
[16:37:29] <WillenCMD> linux that is
[16:37:41] <WillenCMD> it is strikingly similar to his last name
[16:37:48] <WillenCMD> or his first name
[16:37:53] <WillenCMD> what ever it is
[16:38:36] <WillenCMD> i do really like gentoo though, i feel like i have complete control over what i want installed
[16:38:46] <r00t4rd3d> odd
[16:39:04] <r00t4rd3d> your just most familiar with that distro most likely
[16:39:15] <WillenCMD> this is my first install of it
[16:39:21] <WillenCMD> i have only used ubuntu
[16:39:31] <r00t4rd3d> well that explains it then.
[16:39:56] <WillenCMD> ubuntu was great to learn on though, because if you had problems you could easily find support
[16:40:22] <r00t4rd3d> yeah in the ruled like a nazi #ubuntu channel?
[16:40:38] <WillenCMD> i started to do LFS on saturday, but quickly became inpatient with that
[16:40:50] <r00t4rd3d> try Debian
[16:41:20] <r00t4rd3d> ubuntu is a made for retards shell that sits upon Debian
[16:41:21] <WillenCMD> no im going for my perfect build, using Qtile for a windows manager
[16:42:20] <WillenCMD> and just customizing as much of it as possible, i wrote a nice little python scrip that captures the coordinates from the synaptic touch pad. You could use it to position your cnc lol
[16:42:42] <r00t4rd3d> I use a classic Nintendo controller
[16:43:26] <r00t4rd3d> then play games with it on a emulator while I cut
[16:43:58] <WillenCMD> i only did it because my new laptop has a HUGE touch pad, i constantly hit it with my palms and i wanted to restrict the size of it.
[16:44:04] <WillenCMD> i can't stand it
[16:44:12] <WillenCMD> im going back to track ball
[16:44:22] <WillenCMD> or that erasor in the keyboard
[16:45:41] <WillenCMD> if only linux had a solid 3d cad software that resembled solid works
[16:46:02] <WillenCMD> i could completely get rid of windows
[16:46:31] <WillenCMD> FreeCad looks promising, but its not there yet
[16:47:23] <andypugh> What's happened to the banks? A friend of mine in France did an internet transfer of money to my account. It took less than 8 minutes to appear on my statement. They used to hide it somewhere for 3 days (or a week for international)
[16:48:28] <WillenCMD> its great
[16:48:47] <WillenCMD> i go months without touching cash or going to a bank
[16:49:26] <WillenCMD> i remember going to the back every friday, only to have to wait untill monday to get the money deposited in my account
[16:49:31] <WillenCMD> bank*
[16:50:02] <WillenCMD> i was living pay check to pay check at that time, and those 2 days sucked
[16:51:10] <WillenCMD> Are there every LinuxCNC meetings or gatherings?
[16:55:10] <WillenCMD> I asked yesterday but i would like to help update some documentation, is this available to select individuals only?
[16:57:44] <andypugh> WillenCMD: There have been a few meet-ups in the US.
[16:58:00] <andypugh> There was even talk of one this year at Tormach (they invited us)
[16:58:44] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Is the chap to talk about docs with. He seems to do most of the docs work. I rather suspect he would be happy to have help.
[16:58:45] <WillenCMD> Thats neat
[16:59:12] <WillenCMD> There are a few things i would like to update while i still have them fresh in my mind
[16:59:32] <WillenCMD> but if JT-Shop is in charge forget it
[16:59:50] <WillenCMD> :)
[17:01:02] <WillenCMD> One day i would like to be a developer for LCNC
[17:01:55] <r00t4rd3d> make a hal module, bing, your a dev.
[17:02:07] <WillenCMD> i have made several
[17:02:20] <andypugh> So, you're a dev :-)
[17:02:21] <r00t4rd3d> ok, make a useful hal module.
[17:02:30] <WillenCMD> a couple wouldnt be usefull lol
[17:02:32] <r00t4rd3d> that popular and a must have
[17:02:46] <WillenCMD> unless you are controlling a sprinkler system
[17:03:21] <WillenCMD> Really? they are a breeze to make
[17:03:41] <WillenCMD> the hal component generator makes its really simple
[17:04:18] <andypugh> Make your own user-interface. Oh, you did :-)
[17:05:06] <WillenCMD> yes, thanks to you in getting started
[17:05:21] <WillenCMD> so if i annoy anybody with my ramblings blame andy
[17:06:16] <r00t4rd3d> I made my buddy a stupid sign, his wife brought it to work with her, now I got to make 7 more.
[17:06:38] <WillenCMD> really? why would you want a sign that says stupid?
[17:07:15] <r00t4rd3d> by stupid i meant not really artsy
[17:07:21] <r00t4rd3d> plain
[17:07:37] <r00t4rd3d> I used the stupid half of my brains to make it
[17:07:40] <r00t4rd3d> so all of it
[17:07:42] <WillenCMD> i know, im just messing with you
[17:08:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/TAZVK.jpg
[17:08:25] <r00t4rd3d> stupid signage
[17:10:11] <WillenCMD> looks like good a good piece of kindlin
[17:10:20] <WillenCMD> :)
[17:10:30] <r00t4rd3d> i was just testing a cut method
[17:11:24] <WillenCMD> keep working at it you will make something nice eventually
[17:11:31] <r00t4rd3d> probably
[17:11:33] <WillenCMD> lol
[17:11:55] <r00t4rd3d> just square and centered and I would probably be happy.
[17:12:45] <andypugh> What's the wood?
[17:12:45] <WillenCMD> where is your signature?
[17:12:50] <r00t4rd3d> pine
[17:13:02] <r00t4rd3d> i ripped down a 2x6
[17:13:26] <WillenCMD> how long did that take to make
[17:13:26] <r00t4rd3d> will, i dont sign things
[17:13:36] <r00t4rd3d> hour and half
[17:13:42] <WillenCMD> machine time
[17:13:46] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[17:13:47] <ink_> looks nice
[17:14:06] <r00t4rd3d> it was done with a vbit so it took a while
[17:14:38] <WillenCMD> how did you square it up? touch off to the sides?
[17:14:45] <r00t4rd3d> eye balled it
[17:14:57] <r00t4rd3d> and the side rails i guess
[17:15:33] <r00t4rd3d> I didnt clamp it square and I didnt notice till half way done
[17:15:36] <WillenCMD> did you cross groove that to give it the darker look in the center?
[17:15:57] <r00t4rd3d> no just sanded the top after staining it all
[17:16:11] <WillenCMD> ahh... Vcarve?
[17:16:18] <r00t4rd3d> Aspire
[17:16:48] <r00t4rd3d> which is basically vcarve, cut2d, cut3d all in one program
[17:17:05] <WillenCMD> yeah i found one of those cd's on the ground so i have all 3
[17:17:27] <r00t4rd3d> all you need is aspire 3.504 and you can do everything all the other programs do
[17:17:40] <WillenCMD> at the same time?
[17:18:08] <r00t4rd3d> you can run multiple instances of it, so yeah.
[17:18:22] <WillenCMD> i want to make a guitar
[17:18:28] <WillenCMD> its on the todo list
[17:18:34] <r00t4rd3d> then let me smash your face with it
[17:18:55] <r00t4rd3d> ROCK AND ROLL DUDE!
[17:18:56] <tjb1> Face smashing eh
[17:19:00] <WillenCMD> ummm no... after that remark i don't think i'll let you play it
[17:19:27] <WillenCMD> who posted the video of the fly board on here the other day?
[17:19:58] <WillenCMD> i just happened to look before i went to bed clicked on the link and was blown away
[17:20:07] <r00t4rd3d> ive though about making a ukulele
[17:20:44] <WillenCMD> i prefer my acoustic guitar's over the electric, so maybe ill machine upa truss and try to build one of those
[17:21:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Stromberg-Voisinet_Buster_Brown_Banjo_Ukulele.jpg
[17:21:56] <r00t4rd3d> i bet that sounds good
[17:22:04] <WillenCMD> its missing 3 strings
[17:22:45] <WillenCMD> or 2 depending on what you prefer
[17:23:42] <WillenCMD> think rtai is fast enough to build an electronic guitar? linuxcnc guitar...
[17:23:55] <andypugh> Or 8
[17:26:03] <WillenCMD> wonder if the delay would be noticeable ? i had a line 6 variax guitar that actually worked very nicely for an synthesized guitar
[17:31:09] <tjb1> Keep it on topic noobs.
[17:32:39] <r00t4rd3d> at least we have running machines.
[17:32:50] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[17:33:33] <WillenCMD> i agree, come back when you actually make something
[17:34:05] <WillenCMD> otherwise your just a waste of a space on the user scrollbar
[17:34:13] <r00t4rd3d> and not just pictures of an 8 ton z axis
[17:34:31] * tjb1 isnt cutting aluminum gantry supports anymore
[17:34:36] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[17:34:43] <WillenCMD> lol
[17:35:05] <r00t4rd3d> your going to need a V8 on all your axis to get them to move at a decent pace.
[17:35:13] <WillenCMD> hey if it doesn't work out, you could make a nice stage out of the base
[17:35:17] <tjb1> Y moves at 1920ipm...
[17:35:52] <r00t4rd3d> inches per millennium?
[17:36:06] <andypugh> Yikes, that would smart if you got in the way
[17:36:46] <tjb1> So I can move the weight of your whole machine at 1900 ipm r00t4rd3d
[17:36:48] <tjb1> ;)
[17:36:48] <WillenCMD> alright folks, going to leave work now
[17:37:00] <tjb1> That little baby thing
[17:37:09] * Tom_itx gives WillenCMD a shove out the door
[17:37:31] * Tom_itx plops down in his chair
[17:37:52] <tjb1> Tom_itx: Im going to machine my re-made Z tomorrow :D
[17:38:00] <tjb1> Im excited to see how it will work out
[17:38:10] <Tom_itx> you mean your backwards z?
[17:38:24] <WillenCMD> now that Tom_itx is here i think i'll stay, i know how much he likes to gossip
[17:38:26] <tjb1> Yeah
[17:39:15] <Tom_itx> went to see an old friend today at his shop
[17:39:28] <WillenCMD> how long does he have left?
[17:39:45] <Tom_itx> he'll probably outlive you
[17:40:08] <WillenCMD> lol you said old, so i was picturing a walker with a toolcart mounted to it
[17:40:19] <Tom_itx> not hardly
[17:40:31] <WillenCMD> maybe a crescent wrench/ cane
[17:40:33] <Tom_itx> he still does machine work, races cars etc
[17:40:46] <WillenCMD> im just kidding
[17:40:47] <andypugh> You seem unusually boisterous tonnight Gabe
[17:41:07] <Tom_itx> maybe he got lucky
[17:41:27] <Tom_itx> wonder where JT's been
[17:41:29] <WillenCMD> i know, this is my only form of social stimuli...my wife works nights
[17:41:36] <Tom_itx> generally the backlog is full of his nick
[17:42:13] <WillenCMD> i have this Irc and my dogs... thats it
[17:42:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh you may like this... he purchased one of his cnc's back from the company he sold for $10
[17:42:47] <Tom_itx> it did need a new spindle
[17:42:47] <WillenCMD> really?
[17:43:12] <andypugh> Did he sell the company or the cnc?
[17:43:19] <andypugh> (Not quite getting it)
[17:43:20] <WillenCMD> lol
[17:43:23] <Tom_itx> he said since he sold it, they abuse the machines horribly
[17:43:28] <Tom_itx> andypugh both
[17:43:38] <Tom_itx> he retired and sold the company
[17:43:44] <andypugh> Ah. OK
[17:43:47] <Tom_itx> but still does some work for them
[17:44:01] <Tom_itx> and other contract work
[17:44:53] <Tom_itx> never pull maintenance on them or clean em etc
[17:44:53] <Tom_itx> just run em into the dirt. kinda makes me sad
[18:10:55] <tjb1> There wasnt enough time for me to even get the next operation started
[18:45:15] <Gabe_W> so for some reason this kernel i configured loads an extensive amount of modules.. what do i need to edit to prevent this. There are only 2 in my /etc/conf.d/modules
[18:47:45] <andypugh> A lot of essential-ish stuff is modularised
[18:47:47] <cradek> the kernel is made to auto-load the modules it needs for your hardware
[18:55:55] <Gabe_W> sorry i was eating french fries couldn't type back
[18:56:00] <Gabe_W> thanks for the response
[19:09:40] <Gabe_W> should i optimize for size?
[19:09:43] <Gabe_W> the kernel
[19:13:07] <Gabe_W> i guess the pentium pro is the best class for a core i7 or should i go with core 2 duo/later Xeon
[19:16:13] <Gabe_W> also for the Timer frequency what is better?
[19:19:44] <andypugh> I have no idea what your questions even mean :-)
[19:21:05] <Gabe_W> oh.. are the poorly asked? they pertain to the kernel config
[19:23:16] <andypugh> LinuxCNC kernels normally say i386, I think
[19:23:38] <andypugh> You need to match rtai patches.
[19:23:50] <cpresser> why do you think you need to somehow optimize the kernel?
[19:24:10] <andypugh> Why do I need a 180hp motorbike? :-)
[19:25:03] <andypugh> I suspet he has reached the "hotrod kernel" stage, where it has nothing to do with practicality.
[19:25:36] <cpresser> take a look at http://funroll-loops.info/ :)
[19:25:48] <Gabe_W> Im not optomizing
[19:25:49] <jdh> rice it up!
[19:26:02] <jdh> what is your end goal?
[19:26:03] <Gabe_W> im simply configuring it, for my computer
[19:26:08] <Gabe_W> and getoo
[19:26:25] <Gabe_W> making sure i have everything correct because im getting tired of waiting for the make process
[19:26:30] <Gabe_W> gentoo*
[19:27:04] <jdh> vs. just being up and running instantly with a canned kernel?
[19:27:09] <Gabe_W> i havethe kernel and rtai working, have some really poor latency's with overruns but i know its not hardware the standard linuxcnc install runs great
[19:27:29] <cpresser> Gabe_W: the copy the kernel config
[19:27:36] <cpresser> take a look at /proc/config.gz
[19:27:57] <Gabe_W> on the ubuntu system or on this one im building?
[19:28:25] <Gabe_W> because the ubuntu system is gone..
[19:29:02] <cpresser> of course the 'old' config can only be found on the old system
[19:29:14] <cpresser> but just boot from the live-cd :)
[19:29:36] <Gabe_W> copy it to a thumb drive i like the way you think
[19:29:53] <Gabe_W> the .conf that is
[19:29:57] <jdh> I can pastebin my .config if you would like.
[19:30:15] <Gabe_W> it s nice reading about all of this on the kernel menuconfig
[19:30:25] <Gabe_W> but there is no core i7 processor
[19:30:33] <Gabe_W> in the processor family
[19:32:26] <mutilator> anyone know where i can send (or otherwise order specific) enclosures to get some holes drilled?
[19:32:46] <jdh> do you have a drill?
[19:32:53] <mutilator> its hard to make a 15x15m hole
[19:32:58] <mutilator> mm
[19:33:36] <Gabe_W> i tried browsing the git from my wifes laptop looking for the rtai .conf but i couldn't find it
[19:34:14] <mutilator> i have ~50 of these to do and 15 of them here right now i figured i could do but i just cant find a way to do it
[19:35:19] <jdh> drilled round hole? or 15x15mm square hole?
[19:35:40] <mutilator> square
[19:35:45] <mutilator> round holes are easy :P
[19:36:06] <tjb1> How thick of material?
[19:36:15] <tjb1> also what material
[19:37:20] <jdh> mutilator: http://az.rsdelivers.com/catalogue/category/punches-and-dies/1754.aspx#PI-1|A-59743|A-247189
[19:37:23] <mutilator> its ~2.5mm thick
[19:37:27] <mutilator> http://www.pactecenclosures.com/product-detail.php?productid=77&seriesid=64&classid=31
[19:37:29] <mutilator> this enclosure
[19:37:49] <tjb1> Holes in the cover or the box?
[19:37:51] <mutilator> yea jdh its too bad i dont have a press
[19:37:53] <mutilator> both
[19:38:05] <mutilator> the 15x15mm hole is in the box tho
[19:38:07] <tjb1> Any corner radius at all?
[19:38:15] <mutilator> no
[19:38:19] <tjb1> Good luck :)
[19:38:25] <mutilator> heh
[19:38:35] <tjb1> Dont have many options for that
[19:38:43] <tjb1> Laser, drill and file, mill and file, or punch
[19:39:00] <mutilator> yea.. i tried to drill and file
[19:39:08] <mutilator> was a mediocure result
[19:39:15] <tjb1> Do you have a CNC router/mill?
[19:39:20] <mutilator> no
[19:39:23] <tjb1> or even cnc pcb drill
[19:39:40] <mutilator> i have pcb drills and my dremel+drill press
[19:39:58] <mutilator> it just ends up melting the plastic or breaking the drill bit if i try to go too fast
[19:40:11] <tjb1> What if you drill a hole and make a hot wire cutter?
[19:40:23] <mutilator> hm
[19:40:37] <tjb1> Drill hole, thread wire, turn it on and cut it :)
[19:42:07] <tjb1> These holes for little buttons im guessing
[19:42:39] <mutilator> the 15x15 is for a rj45 receptacle
[19:44:00] <mutilator> pactec referred me to electronicprecepts.com
[19:44:09] <mutilator> so i hit them up, we'll see what they say tomorrow
[19:45:11] <mutilator> maybe i could get a hot knife tip for my hakko
[20:17:21] <Gabe_W> can i browse linuxcnc source files via a web browser?
[20:21:21] <PCW> yes
[20:22:59] <Gabe_W> i just want to read the rtai .conf from the ubuntu iso i don't feel like booting it up
[20:23:04] <PCW> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree
[20:24:05] <Gabe_W> also when i re-ran make on the patchedkernel a linux folder shows up in /usr/src... is this just a copy or backup?
[20:24:44] <PCW> dunno
[20:40:33] <Gabe_W> any care to pastebin there rtai .conf file? i don't feel like burning the ubuntu disk
[20:40:53] <Gabe_W> anyone*
[21:02:41] <r00t4rd3d> grab it from the git
[21:02:55] <r00t4rd3d> newb
[21:03:35] <r00t4rd3d> https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror
[21:06:57] <r00t4rd3d> or maybe its not generated till you install and run it
[21:36:37] <Gabe_W> bingo
[21:36:57] <Gabe_W> don't worry i went the long route and burned a dsk
[21:42:23] <jdh> GabeW: http://pastebin.com/jtxSZHuw
[21:47:13] <Gabe_W> thanks :)
[21:54:41] <jdh> geez... I haven't had to build a kernel myself in like 10 years... 5100 line .config
[22:05:23] <Gabe_W> well your missing out
[22:05:24] <Gabe_W> lo;l
[22:05:54] <Gabe_W> the live cd is a waste, emc users could just build it all from source
[22:06:03] <Gabe_W> make up a 400 page manual
[22:06:27] <jdh> or, just use the canned kernel. Works great.
[22:06:53] <Gabe_W> canned kernel? excuse my ignorance
[22:07:14] <jdh> the one that is installed off the livecd
[22:09:14] <Gabe_W> oh thats to easy though don't you want to spend countless hours re-making one untill you get it right
[22:09:30] <Gabe_W> the satisfaction it brings is worth it