#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-09-30

Back
[00:10:42] <Jymmm\AE> Is there a non-precious metal other than SS that doesn't tarnish/oxidize?
[00:11:58] <Jymmm\AE> I guess nickel and chrome are mostly plated though
[01:07:33] <MattyMatt> titanium tarnishes doesn't it? attractive tarnish tho I believe
[01:09:06] <MattyMatt> i.materialise do titanium SLS on demand now. €130 for a 10mm ER16 collet so I guess that doesn't count as non-precious either
[01:11:11] <Jymmm\AE> heh
[01:11:41] <Jymmm\AE> and I don't want to get into the plating biz
[02:04:34] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:38:17] <jthornton> how can I have some kind of feedback to my tutorials that spammers won't abuse?
[06:38:53] <awallin> akismet on wordpress works OK. where are you posting them?
[06:39:42] <jthornton> I tried wordpress and spammers love it
[06:40:10] <jthornton> the tutorials are on my web site
[06:40:13] <jthornton> gnipsel.com
[06:40:52] <awallin> you need to enable the akismet plugin, with that I get very few spam-comments through
[06:41:07] <jthornton> looking at akismet now
[06:43:58] <jthornton> maybe a mailto with a subject might be easier to manage
[06:45:32] <archivist> I have akismet installed too
[06:46:00] <jthornton> could that be used on a page by page basis?
[06:46:17] <jthornton> like from the bottom of a tutorial page?
[06:47:37] <archivist> I have mine set so I have to approve comments so can catch the few akismet fails on
[06:48:15] <archivist> I dont have anyone can register on
[07:07:42] <mazafaka> jthornton: 'recipes' section is poor, add some veggy salads at top
[07:09:20] * mazafaka thinks how to steal some pipes which lay near his block of flats and await for the moment to be put into trash
[07:10:31] <Loetmichel> my wife is just cooking... 1 can of chilli con carne, 1500gr... 2 cans tomatoes , 1 can corn, 1200 grams copped meat ;-)
[07:10:37] <Loetmichel> for 2 persons ;-)
[07:32:56] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: hello from germany
[07:33:06] <Loetmichel> moin
[07:33:11] <jthornton> http://www.gnipsel.com/punbb
[07:34:11] <jthornton> mazafaka, do you need a recipe to make a salad?
[07:35:50] <Jymmm\AE> jthornton: pun_stop_bots v0.3.3 - http://punbb.informer.com/extensions/#1.4
[07:36:20] <Jymmm\AE> jthornton: pun_antispam v1.3.4 -
[07:36:25] <jthornton> thanks
[07:37:14] <Jymmm\AE> np
[07:37:41] <jthornton> hmmm it says no extensions are available for install
[07:42:23] <mazafaka> jthornton: probably someone needs it, I know one, cabbag and carrot, and vegetable oil
[07:49:33] <jthornton> finally figured out how to add an extension
[07:51:56] <jthornton> ok Jymmm\AE want to give it a try
[07:54:08] <Jymmm\AE> An email has been sent to the specified address with instructions on how to activate your new account. If it doesn't arrive you can contact the forum administrator at jet256@semo.net.
[07:54:11] <pilla_> Hello!
[07:58:31] <pilla_> I am a student, and for my final project I got assigned with trying to get our school's CNC miller working. I have no knowledge of G or of CNC machines whatsoever, but this looked like a very interesting project to do. In the end I'll have to make a program (probably C++) which should allow interactive control of the CNC miller. Another option was to build a camera atop which would take a...
[07:58:33] <pilla_> ...picture of the PCI board beneath and transfer it to a picture you can "click" on, and at those points there should be milled. I just wondered if it would be possible to turn it into a plugin/widget/add-on for linuxCNC. I have absolutely no idea where to start though :)u
[08:00:33] <Poincare> pilla_: welke school?
[08:00:42] <pilla_> KDG :)
[08:01:25] <Poincare> beter campus gevraagd, kan niet meer volgen met al die fusies en herorganisaties
[08:01:37] <pilla_> Paardemarkt :) En jij bent?
[08:02:16] <Poincare> daar 18 jaar geleden afgestudeerd
[08:02:36] <JT-Shop> Jymmm\AE: is that bad?
[08:03:12] <Jymmm\AE> jthornton: do yo know what that email address is?
[08:03:29] <Jymmm\AE> semo.net
[08:07:32] <archivist> all you have to do is lurk in here for a while to know semo.net
[08:07:36] <r00t4rd3d> who is in Missouri ?
[08:15:31] <JT-Shop> yea it's an old one of mine
[08:37:10] <gabeth> whats the main difference between xenomai and rtai
[08:37:21] <gabeth> seems to me they are one and the same
[08:47:13] <archivist> there are differences http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/FAQs
[08:48:05] <andypugh> pilla_: Have you looked on the forum? I recall some discussion of an image analysis plug-in.
[08:52:05] <andypugh> pilla_: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=10&id=20157#20157 might be interesting.
[09:00:41] <pilla_> Thanks!
[09:24:51] <r00t-Shed> if my controller is set to 1/2 step in stepconf should my microstepping be set to 2.0?
[09:25:13] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[09:27:22] <jdh> unless you only want to travel half as far as requested.
[09:27:29] <r00t-Shed> when i do Test this axis, it will only let me goto 0.3 for velocity then the up arrow gets grayed out, this normal?
[09:29:07] <andypugh> That might be due to the base period chosen, or the max velocity somewhere else
[09:30:00] <r00t-Shed> when doing test this axis, acceleration # seems to have no effect
[09:33:09] <r00t-Shed> nvm
[09:42:41] <r00t-Shed> I got it from 12ipm to 18 :)
[10:10:52] <jdh> http://raleigh.craigslist.org/tls/3279876729.html
[10:11:01] <jdh> anyone know what that is?
[10:12:45] <andypugh> It's a hydraulic copy-lathe
[10:12:59] <jdh> heh, I got that part. How does it copy?
[10:13:21] <jdh> and how hard would it be to make it a non-copy lathe?
[10:13:22] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/myfordminikop/index.html
[10:15:56] <jdh> looks nifty.
[10:16:15] <andypugh> There are a pair of centres mounted on the back of the bed to hold the master pattern. A "feeler" touches this and operates valves to move the working tool in and out.
[10:16:52] <jdh> oh, so it doesn't duplicate the actual item, just a pattern
[10:18:04] <andypugh> Well, a machinist would make the master, then it would copy that.
[10:18:25] <andypugh> The pattern is typically a turned part.
[10:19:00] <andypugh> Though I guess you could have filed one from plate, too.
[10:19:14] * jdh goes to look for spare floor space.
[10:20:19] <archivist> the basis of a cnc lathe maybe as it is a production beast not a home toy
[10:20:25] <andypugh> The head is ideal for a VFD conversion (no gears to be wasting).
[10:21:07] <andypugh> Seems a shame to thorw away all the hydraulics, but to be honest the hydraulic copy lathe is a superceeded technlogy.
[10:21:48] <andypugh> It's certainly cheap enough.
[10:22:19] <archivist> I thought it a bit pricey
[10:22:40] <andypugh> Not considering stupid Myford prices (and that it is in dollars)
[10:23:06] <archivist> but its not a normal myford, and it is over the pond
[10:23:28] <andypugh> £370?
[10:23:32] <archivist> I agree they are over priced here
[10:24:28] <archivist> £370 for a good headstock and not much else as there is a lot to do to cnc it
[10:25:00] <andypugh> Good bed, saddle and cross-slide too.
[10:26:06] <archivist> rectangular beds get loose in the middle and need grinding, myfords I have used have shown their wear :)
[10:26:10] <andypugh> I am not sure if there are any leadscrews at all. However, a Z-screw is very easy to set up, and would have little in common with the original in any case. The sticking point might be the X-slide.
[10:26:39] <jdh> I don't see what moves on there for X
[10:27:15] <jdh> but, no way I could fit it in for the forseeable future. I have a 9x20 I can't get to as it is.
[10:27:40] <archivist> what make 9x20
[10:27:52] <jdh> jet
[10:28:06] <archivist> never heard of that
[10:28:18] <jdh> generic chinese 9x20
[10:30:23] <archivist> ok better castings and headstock on the myford, I found http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/versions/Versions_9x20.htm
[10:31:16] <archivist> start making space for teh toys
[10:31:40] <jdh> yeah, same as those. Came with the stand, 4 chucks, rests, tooling, stuff for $400.
[10:32:40] <jdh> I need to cut some stuff with my table saw, but it is busy holding the electronics for my mill.
[10:40:57] <andypugh> archivist: It would be hard to be worse. I would almost swap my fully-working CNC converted lathe-of-that-ilk for the Myford just to have some decent castings.
[10:42:14] <archivist> I look at the casting of machines with a view to what I can do :)
[10:42:52] <archivist> the column of an old drill I have will upgrade the 5 axis one day
[11:05:29] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/8039670898/in/photostream Is this how you cut one of those bolt slots in acrylic to relieve stress?
[11:09:20] <Loetmichel> ScribbleJ: you mean the 2 drills in the corners?
[11:09:24] <ScribbleJ> Yea
[11:09:27] <Loetmichel> COULD help
[11:09:43] <Loetmichel> but acrylic isnt the right material to put much force on
[11:09:50] <ScribbleJ> Don't I know it.!
[11:09:51] <Loetmichel> believe me, i have tried
[11:10:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[11:10:35] <ScribbleJ> Haaa, interesting...
[11:10:39] <Loetmichel> yes, that was a CNC mill completely made of acrylic
[11:11:16] <jdh> and scavenged printer parts?
[11:11:23] <Loetmichel> right ;-)
[11:11:37] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7947569318/in/photostream
[11:11:38] <Loetmichel> and some 624 ball bearings
[11:11:47] <ScribbleJ> Ugly as sin.
[11:11:50] <Loetmichel> and some 5mm threaded stainless rods
[11:12:15] <Loetmichel> ScribbleJ: nice
[11:12:19] <Loetmichel> hexapod?
[11:12:49] <ScribbleJ> It's only got the three motors, the double arms constrain the effector to be parallel to the floor.
[11:12:55] <ScribbleJ> So... delta robot.
[11:13:09] <Loetmichel> jdh: s/printer/ 5,25" floppie drives
[11:13:22] <jdh> and an Owon scope?
[11:13:34] <ScribbleJ> good eye, jdh
[11:13:59] <jdh> there is one sitting above my desk.
[11:14:08] <jdh> got a battery for it?
[11:14:30] <ScribbleJ> No... I don't use it often enough to bother I guess.
[11:14:41] <jdh> me either, I might if it had a battery though.
[11:52:40] <archivist> cheapish horizontal fleabay 330802047381
[11:57:29] <pcw_home> I'll say thats horizontal, hurts my neck to look at it...
[11:58:40] <archivist> there sure are some lazy listers who dont get their pictures right
[12:25:23] <IchGuckLive> hi all Around B)
[12:39:41] <IchGuckLive> hi amaldo
[12:39:49] <IchGuckLive> wether in brazil is good
[12:40:35] <IchGuckLive> as always on sunday sunny beatch party i guess ! O.O :D B)
[12:44:06] <IchGuckLive> sumpfralle1: why double lock in
[12:44:15] <IchGuckLive> cncbasher is locked in 4 times
[13:07:30] <mazafaka> jthornton: http://a.d-cd.net/ceca9cu-960.jpg
[13:10:17] <mazafaka> And wheels will be covered with clearcoating: http://a.d-cd.net/c52b9cu-960.jpg
[13:13:51] <andypugh> mazafaka: Ural?
[13:22:49] <adb> it seems so ..
[13:29:12] <andypugh> Discuss: How should LinuxcCNC behave on a lathe with both back and front toolposts?
[13:41:06] <JT-Shop> might have to holler at rob_h he has one/some iirc
[13:52:41] <andypugh> it seems to me that the diameter will get bigger in the wrong direction with the rear toolpost.
[13:58:24] <archivist> andypugh, gets even funnier on my sliding head I think
[13:59:45] <archivist> four tools are one way one one is a rear but they are on a rocker
[14:02:35] <JT-Shop> I cut from the back side once and iirc it was trival to program going from the minus side, kind of like the minus side of the Y axis on a mill
[14:03:05] <archivist> be a while before I do anything in anger on it though
[14:05:08] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I can't imagine that diameter mode still works though?
[14:05:19] <andypugh> Or does it all "just happen"
[14:06:09] <andypugh> Perhaps you program a negative diameter and CSS reverses the spindle and it all works perfectly?
[14:06:20] <JT-Shop> I can't remember if I used diameter or radius mode
[14:07:33] <archivist> this link has just arrived on the oldtools list 1954 drill making http://www.ina.fr/economie-et-societe/vie-economique/video/VDD09016222/forets-helicoidaux.fr.html
[14:08:50] <JT-Shop> archivist: when I picked up the surface grinder I saw a huge turrent drill that could drill a 3" hole in steel that was made in 1923 and still worked.
[14:12:55] <archivist> you didnt bring it home too!
[14:12:59] <JT-Shop> the curious thing missing from the junk that came with the surface grinder was a truing diamond
[14:13:05] <JT-Shop> no, much to heavy
[14:13:43] <JT-Shop> I forgot how much he said it weighed exactly but I think 16 tons
[14:13:45] <archivist> I bet the diamond got used for the other small grinder too
[14:14:02] <andypugh> Diamonds are surprisingly inexpensive.
[14:14:09] <JT-Shop> he only had the one grinder
[14:14:24] <JT-Shop> so are wheels
[14:14:38] <archivist> not even a double ender
[14:14:49] <andypugh> Is there a truing widget built in to the machine?
[14:15:22] <JT-Shop> no, you can either bolt one on or use a block of steel with the diamond on the magnet
[14:15:38] <JT-Shop> it is an option on that grinder
[14:15:39] <mazafaka> andypugh: yeah, some Ural M67-36
[14:16:06] <andypugh> Looks like a 1/4 carat diamond in a shank is £3.60
[14:16:52] <JT-Shop> $33 from mcmaster
[14:16:54] <andypugh> Makes me wonder why anyone bothers with the whirling-wheel style.
[14:16:56] <mazafaka> andypugh: no, just usual motorcycle, although somewhat more pricey than 4 Euro :)
[14:17:18] <mazafaka> Oh, you're about jewelries...
[14:17:30] <andypugh> No, dressing grindstones.
[14:17:41] <archivist> the way you true your wheel effects the cutting quality and rate
[14:17:47] <mazafaka> diamond clad coating?
[14:18:06] <andypugh> No, just an industrial diamon brazed into a lump of steel.
[14:18:07] <archivist> use a rough method for fast cutting
[14:18:40] <JT-Shop> I can get the whole thing for $67 http://www.mcmaster.com/#diamond-dressing-nibs/=jiqcrv
[14:18:51] <archivist> and fine feed to the diamond for a fine finish when you use the trued wheel
[14:20:38] <JT-Shop> by rough method you mean moving the wheel past the diamond on Y in a rapid motion?
[14:22:06] <mazafaka> What do you guys think of 250 RPMs for 1'' in diameter HSS end mill for the milling of construction steel? Isn't it like lower RPMs (maybe 120-150) would be somewhat better?
[14:23:15] <mazafaka> And prolongate for much longer the sharpness of the cutting edges?
[14:23:48] <JT-Shop> how many flutes?
[14:23:54] <Tom_itx> 4 i hope
[14:24:12] <mazafaka> 5 flutes
[14:24:58] <archivist> JT-Shop, yes
[14:25:44] <JT-Shop> that would be 65 SFM so if you take enough of a chip to pull the heat out you should be good
[14:26:08] <mazafaka> machine isn't really rigid, although travels quite much distance: x1400 y600 z400, it's a 2.5D coordinate-drilling machine conversed to somewhat Windows 98-based, with lots of integral schemes
[14:26:40] <JT-Shop> archivist: when I worked in the tool room that gave us the best roughing wheel and a fine pass back and forth a few times slow gave us the best finish
[14:26:49] <andypugh> mazafaka: http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=27011
[14:27:00] <archivist> JT-Shop, I got the method from a Jones & Shipman manual about grinding, they made/make similar machines over here
[14:27:02] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[14:27:09] <Tom_itx> suggests 110 sfm
[14:27:18] <mazafaka> okay, it sounds OK with coolant, but can I DRAMATICALLY enlarge the amount of time cutting edges are sharp if I reduce RPMs to 90-120?? This is the question...
[14:28:58] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I haven't tried the numbers yet, but FSWizard seems to do more of the work for you than the one you linked.
[14:29:05] <JT-Shop> mazafaka: climb cutting and cutting the proper chip load will increase the time the cutting edge stays sharp
[14:30:25] <mazafaka> Ok
[14:30:41] <Tom_itx> andypugh yeah that looks like a good one
[14:32:23] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that your tool list or a default public one?
[14:32:36] <mazafaka> 0.04'' is OK?
[14:32:44] <mazafaka> as chip load?
[14:32:56] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[14:33:06] <andypugh> It's public, I know nothing about it.
[14:33:08] <Tom_itx> depends on the rigidity of the machine
[14:33:19] <mazafaka> So, it's OK, rigidity is low
[14:33:44] <Tom_itx> i'd shoot for between .002 and .004
[14:34:02] <andypugh> .04" sounds enormous to me.
[14:34:11] <Tom_itx> i considered that a typo
[14:34:33] <mazafaka> Okay, I'll have a try tomorrow... Right, 0.004
[14:34:36] <andypugh> It's OK for a nice big lathe :-)
[14:34:41] <Tom_itx> .040 per tooth would probably chip the endmill
[14:36:05] <mazafaka> Heh, yeah, and besides, the level of noise and vibration should be quite moderate in comparison to larger chip load
[14:38:21] <mazafaka> 0.04''-thick chip is for a mill made of a huge truck which carries 300 tonns! Whoa!
[14:41:35] <archivist> I think that slab mill on youtube that set the sweeping bush on fire would be eating chips like that
[14:41:35] <andypugh> Link?
[14:44:29] <mazafaka> Not for the most. Little machine operator and a huge mill, what a mesalliance!
[14:45:26] <pcw_home> That was a little more exciting morning than I like, coyote in the backyard chasing chickens...
[14:45:28] <andypugh> This one certainly shifts some metal: http://youtu.be/2rTsBK_E5kI
[14:46:40] <andypugh> pcw_home: <Wikipedia> Quite nice looking doggies, but I guess you don't want them eating your hens.
[14:46:59] <pcw_home> Nor sheep
[14:48:21] <archivist> andypugh, I wish I could re find it, it was in here some years ago with a very large cut, just been looking for it again
[14:49:04] <pcw_home> Thats a pretty stiff machine to make that kind or swarf
[14:49:06] <archivist> andypugh, was probably twice that ones diameter
[14:49:14] <JT-Shop> hmm, the oiler seems to be blocked up
[14:57:09] <tjb1> hey r00t4rd3d, get to work
[15:04:52] <pcw_home> Oiler on your new grinder?
[15:05:55] <Tom_itx> andypugh have you tried downloading that app?
[15:06:14] <Tom_itx> i got an error but it installed ok
[15:07:57] <JT-Shop> yea, or some of the lines are plugged it seems
[15:08:42] <JT-Shop> I guess after 39 years you can expect a little thing or two to have to fix on a surface grinder
[15:11:47] <pcw_home> Are these actual tubing or pathways drilled in the castings?
[15:17:23] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XgAFR1XAtk&feature=related <-- also quite nice metal removal rates =)
[15:25:26] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, I haven't tried the App
[15:25:41] <Tom_itx> i kinda like it
[15:28:29] <andypugh> Hmm, first comment on the App is by Seb.
[15:28:48] <Tom_itx> didn't read em
[15:29:03] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: tubing and a manifold or two
[15:29:21] <JT-Shop> doesn't seem like piston type oilers just a maifold and tubing
[15:30:24] <archivist> hmm chip throwing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFGksbhW5eA&feature=fvwrel
[15:34:38] <syyl> the powerfeed got lost, hm?
[15:34:51] <syyl> now its the "strong arm" feed
[15:37:16] <pcw_home> I notice he's dodging hot bits of metal
[15:38:04] <syyl> a real machinist stands the pain!
[15:38:49] <archivist> some of the time he looks at the camera instead of watching for hot metal coming his way
[15:38:51] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i would too
[15:41:27] <Tom_itx> the one andy posted on the Sandvik sponsonred one reminded me of a Mori Seki i saw once only the chips coming off it were white hot
[15:42:30] <Tom_itx> sticking to the paint inside the enclosure
[15:42:53] <pcw_home> I would rather not be that close!
[15:43:45] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J150F5WoKE4&feature=related is this the largest lathe on youtube?
[15:43:50] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what they were cutting but it was some hard steel
[15:46:44] <L84Supper> the other giant is that lathe for ship crankshafts
[15:48:00] <L84Supper> better not make any mistakes cutting
[15:48:10] <archivist> once you see that one youtube throws up a few other cravens and I think that one for sale too
[15:49:17] <L84Supper> I've seen ship cranks larger than the one in that video, but never the machines that cut or grind them
[15:49:48] <t12> apparently submarine transmission machine tools were really insane
[15:49:55] <t12> were/are?
[15:55:18] <andypugh> I think this is the biggest LinuxCNC lathe I know of: https://picasaweb.google.com/100071689012340457875/Lathepics?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNnEn5SRw4aI6gE&feat=directlink
[15:55:41] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=-mL0c3V_XUU ~0:30 - 0-:44 maybe 2m dia cylinders and look at the crank
[15:56:18] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Sep%2030%2C%202%2002%2029%20PM.jpg
[15:56:23] <ReadError> my latest proj ;)
[15:56:34] <ReadError> first time cutting carbonfiber
[15:57:50] <andypugh> Is that an Octo-rotor?
[16:00:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:00:48] <ReadError> yea andypugh
[16:07:00] <Loetmichel> octocopter in x4 coax config
[16:07:05] <Loetmichel> i would say
[16:12:03] <andypugh> pcw_home: Should I see the voltage between pins 27 and 29 change when I adjust the contrast on the 7i73?
[16:12:36] <andypugh> I can't decide how to test my code in that regard.
[16:33:42] <pcw_home> andypugh: It should with ESC 'C' CHAR (Char is 0x20 to 0xBF)
[16:34:20] <andypugh> Ah. That will be the problem.
[16:35:10] <andypugh> I am just doing 0x1B 0x20 (for example).
[16:35:30] <pcw_home> 'C' for Contrast
[16:35:38] <andypugh> Yeah, I see that now
[16:35:48] <andypugh> Simple fix.
[16:37:10] <pcw_home> Its an ADM3! (Classsic Comp respect)
[16:42:21] <andypugh> I might have killed the LCD.
[16:42:52] <andypugh> Not even a flashing cursor at the moment
[16:43:21] <andypugh> Luckily I bought two.
[16:43:38] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: And you call yourself a BioNuclearPhysisist! Eeeesh ;)
[16:43:51] <andypugh> (Or, possibly, I killed the 7i73)
[16:44:41] <pcw_home> If the contrast is totally wrong you will have no display
[16:44:42] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: Maybe you can sweet talk those mesa folks for a replacement =)
[16:46:17] <pcw_home> unless you have a voltage outside of 0--5V range in contact with the I/O pins, its pretty hard to injure the 7I73
[16:47:40] <pcw_home> if you power cycle the 7I73 power it will revert to its default (EEPROM) contrast value
[16:51:05] <pcw_home> Character LCDs are also quite hard to kill (being built with HV MOS Tech from the last century)
[16:53:27] <andypugh> I am a bit puzzled, because i swapped diplays and still don't see a cursor. I thought that happened with 5V alone?
[16:55:35] <Loetmichel> andypugh: no
[16:56:17] <Loetmichel> character (HD44****) display shoiw normally on row black blocks one row clear when powered
[16:56:23] <Loetmichel> until initialized
[16:56:46] <Loetmichel> if you dionst see the black row wenn powerup: contrast value wrong?
[16:57:07] <Loetmichel> or display has an other contrast voltage range than the mese expects?
[16:57:10] <Loetmichel> mesa
[16:57:18] <andypugh> It was working
[16:57:36] <pcw_home> Did you power cycle the 7I73? (so it re-sets its contrast)
[16:57:45] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: you might try unplugging everything from everything and waiting 24hours.
[16:58:00] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: not just power
[16:58:14] <andypugh> pcw_home: Yes, and now it works
[16:58:38] <andypugh> The strange thing: I hadn't put in the correct code to change the EEPROM contrast yet..
[16:58:57] <pcw_home> you probably just set the contrast outside its range
[17:00:11] <pcw_home> If you happened to send a 'C" after your truncated escape sequence
[17:01:22] <pcw_home> then the next char sent would set the contrast
[17:01:24] <andypugh> Anyway, it works.
[17:01:26] <andypugh> Sort-of.
[17:01:52] <andypugh> It is meant to be 0 to 1, but it seems to wrap :-)
[17:02:21] <pcw_home> well it needs to stay in the 0x20 to 0xBF range
[17:02:42] <andypugh> It was meant to :-)
[17:04:24] <pcw_home> we went back and forth about what contrast meant so changed the direction a few times
[17:11:22] <pcw_home> so a bug there _is_ possible...
[17:11:44] <andypugh> I am clipping the range now, let's see.
[17:15:12] <andypugh> OK, that works
[17:15:34] <andypugh> I can even read the display now, which was a challenge before
[17:16:15] <pcw_home> probably our EEPROM default was not good for your display
[17:18:13] <andypugh> Pretty much to be expected. This display shows nothing below 0x7F
[17:19:06] <andypugh> But is nice and dark at 0x9F
[17:19:11] <pcw_home> I think 0xBF is about GND
[17:19:24] <pcw_home> (so max VEE)
[17:19:43] <andypugh> I need to write some docs, then I guess I will push it to Master.
[17:20:18] <pcw_home> Too bad there are no HAL strings so you could feed strings to the display
[17:22:11] <pcw_home> That would make variable displays a lot easier (like marking the active axis for jog)
[17:26:28] <andypugh> I could invent my own "bit" specifier that created a boolean HAL pin that swapped a character between 0x20 and 0xFF
[17:27:30] <andypugh> Though you could do the same thing with three different pages in the existing comp
[17:34:08] <andypugh> %b # as a format that creates a bit pin that swaps from space to hash?
[17:34:25] <andypugh> Darn, it's just easy enough to feel I ought to.
[17:35:22] <andypugh> Or is it more sensible to have a %c which simply inserts an ASCII char to match a hal pin value?
[17:36:06] <andypugh> Both, I guess?
[17:36:28] <andypugh> I am rather tempted to see if I get any customers first, though.
[17:37:05] <pfred1> andypugh what for?
[17:37:19] <andypugh> An lcd driver comp
[17:38:08] <pfred1> andypugh do you remember when I showed you this? http://i.imgur.com/8Y11S.jpg
[17:38:48] <andypugh> Very vaguely. It was possibly a while ago?
[17:39:02] <pfred1> andypugh oh yeah it was a while back
[17:39:16] <pfred1> andypugh now I have this http://i.imgur.com/6oSDQ.jpg
[17:39:54] <pfred1> well i cut enough stock to make about 30 feet of that
[17:40:13] <andypugh> Are you planning to cap it with metal?
[17:40:22] <andypugh> Or run on the wood?
[17:40:32] <pfred1> the thought has crossed my mind but I'm going to ride it barebacked first
[17:40:45] <andypugh> Yee!Haa!
[17:40:48] <pfred1> I've even thought about a way to make it out of angle iron
[17:41:15] <pfred1> but I want to see how well the mechanism works before I invest too much into it
[17:41:44] <pfred1> I will say this just out of wood it is pretty strong
[17:41:48] <pcw_home> I like the %c or (%c%c%...)
[17:42:54] <pcw_home> looks like modern art
[17:43:35] <andypugh> pcw but there are hal bit pins that would be easy to link to, too.
[17:43:44] <andypugh> But %c is so very easy..
[17:43:51] <andypugh> It's almost already done
[18:05:14] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: got LCD back?
[18:05:25] <andypugh> Yes
[18:05:30] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: woohoo!!!
[18:05:38] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: what was it?
[18:05:59] <andypugh> Not sure. But possibly a bad contrast value stored in the 7i73
[18:06:33] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: Oh, hmmm, is this a color or backpack lcd?
[18:06:52] <andypugh> monochrome
[18:07:13] <Jymmm\AE> but a regular VGA, not like a 2x16 etc
[18:07:34] <andypugh> Well, technically, it is any character terminal. We could use this to write directly to an ADM3 terminal. :-)
[18:07:51] <andypugh> No, 4x20, 2x16 etc
[18:08:15] <Jymmm\AE> No, it is a 2x20, or no it's NOT a 4x20?
[18:08:21] <Jymmm\AE> err 4x20
[18:08:41] <andypugh> Yes it is not neither of those.
[18:08:45] <Jymmm\AE> Bah... I don't know how to distinguish between the two types
[18:08:50] <Jymmm\AE> ok =)
[18:09:26] <andypugh> Jymmm\AE: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aAihldBxgUVCTCc2hTl4O9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:10:20] <Jymmm\AE> Oh, so it *IS* a 2x16 "type" LCD, not a vga
[18:10:56] <andypugh> Yes. As I said.
[18:13:54] <Jymmm\AE> I call those backpack, as in the serial backpack they have.
[18:15:48] <tjb1> \AE huh...
[18:16:06] <Jymmm\AE> tjb1: ?
[18:16:20] <pfred1> huh is huh spelled backwards
[18:16:22] <tjb1> Thats a 4x20 :P
[18:16:31] <tjb1> Whats \AE
[18:16:56] <Jymmm\AE> 1x24, 2x16, 4x20.... those TYPE of lcd's
[18:17:41] <Jymmm\AE> tjb1: /AE is the suffix added to callsign after passing my Extra exam (yesterday), will the paperwork catches up to the FCC database.
[18:17:50] <Jymmm\AE> s/wil/while/
[18:18:43] <tjb1> Oh for your Ham radio
[18:18:49] <Jymmm\AE> yes
[18:19:10] <pfred1> I went to a ham event here once
[18:19:22] <tjb1> Get any bacon?
[18:19:28] <pfred1> folks around here aren't too technically inclined though
[18:19:36] <tjb1> Sliced too thin I suppose...
[18:19:55] <tjb1> :)
[18:20:22] <pfred1> one freemason there had this pretty neat spectrum radio
[18:20:47] <pfred1> but no one had a homebrewed rig
[18:21:18] <Jymmm\AE> I got my tech 12+ years ago. Some guy is going to be in antartica, so to motivate him I said I would get me General license too and we can talk when it gets there. Well, when you pass one test (which I did two weeks) they give you the next test for free. I took it and missed passing by three questions. So I studied like crazy, and took my Extra exam yesterday and got it.
[18:22:01] <JT-Shop> cool
[18:22:02] <pfred1> I'm not interested in radio beyond the electronics aspect of it really
[18:22:12] <pfred1> and even the electronics barely interest me
[18:22:34] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: theres all categories just like cnc.
[18:22:41] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Whats the thickness of the steel on your water table and are you using a torch breakaway?
[18:23:09] <pfred1> Jymmm\AE: the only times I've ever built radios was always by mistake
[18:23:20] <Jymmm\AE> softwae, hardware, amchining, electroncs, mechanical. For ham, theres electronics, RF, antenna, data, satellitte, etc
[18:23:21] <pfred1> oscillating amplifiers
[18:23:23] <JT-Shop> 0.075" no
[18:24:11] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: Well, like I said there are different aspects. QRP is low power, so like talking from US to UK on 5Watts of RF power.
[18:24:38] <pfred1> yeah the spectrum radio I saw was only 5 watts it had great range though
[18:24:42] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: some like to build antennas, some like working satellites.
[18:24:50] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Thanks, I think I will try to save some money and get something in the range, .120 is a litte thick…and expensive
[18:25:25] <JT-Shop> just depends on the unsupported size of your water table... mine is 54" x 36" :)
[18:25:49] <Tom_itx> did you put an X bend in the bottom?
[18:25:55] <Tom_itx> with a drain in the middle
[18:25:58] <JT-Shop> yup
[18:26:08] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: There's just contents too, where ppl just try to make contacts with strange places =)
[18:26:11] <Tom_itx> how'd the beer kegs work out?
[18:26:15] <Jymmm\AE> contests
[18:26:36] <JT-Shop> coundn't find it... I did fine a B&S 612 though
[18:26:45] <pfred1> yeah what I went to was a QRP? or something they were trying to get a list of connections at the event
[18:26:57] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Unsupported areas are 26"x68"
[18:26:59] <pfred1> it was a few years ago the details are fuzzy now
[18:27:27] <JT-Shop> yea 14ga should be fine
[18:27:55] <tjb1> Did you arc yours?
[18:27:59] <tjb1> Slats that is
[18:28:08] <JT-Shop> arc?
[18:28:28] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: Yeah, all different aspects to ham radio, ppl just go with what they're interested in. SUPER simple as this http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/easy-ten/easy-ten.htm to slightly more like this https://sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/80_2t
[18:28:33] <tjb1> http://arclightcnc.com/uploads/2/9/1/4/2914931/6555694_orig.jpg like that
[18:29:18] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: to more extremes like this SDR https://www.ettus.com/product/details/UN210-KIT
[18:29:19] <JT-Shop> naw, and still using the same slats from the git go
[18:29:32] <pfred1> Jymmm\AE well like i said the only aspect of it that even remotely interests me is the electronics angle of it
[18:29:52] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: =)
[18:29:53] <tjb1> JT-Shop: I might have my floating z built this week, still waiting on switches from china for the probing part
[18:30:20] <pfred1> Jymmm\AE and tbh if I'm building amps I prefer to make them in the audio range
[18:30:24] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: I'm kinda digging the antenna and SDR aspects.
[18:31:36] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: There's an art/science/voodoo to antennas that's appealing.
[18:33:53] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: Since QRP is low RF power, I'm also working on low DC power. I was able to generate 13.8 DC watts from my solar blanket earlier this week, and going to see how well I can charge some battery packs from it
[18:35:34] <pfred1> hmm I thought antennas were harmonics of the frequencies you wanted to use?
[18:35:46] <pfred1> I thought the math for them was all worked out
[18:36:34] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: Mostly it is, but there are creeative ways to make an antenna and have it do different things.
[18:37:32] <andypugh> I tried to make an antenna once. I wanted to fit it inside my robot (40MHz).
[18:37:49] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: directlional or omni?
[18:38:10] <andypugh> I made quite a nice bifilar helical. Very nicely tuned to 40Mhz. Very ineffective
[18:38:52] <andypugh> very much omnidirectional. The standard RC car antenna is a 2' whip, but that wasn't going to work for the robot.
[18:38:53] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: Unless you work satellite =)
[18:40:07] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: http://jcoppens.com/ant/qfh/fotos_dna.en.php
[18:41:10] <andypugh> That's a quad
[18:41:18] <Jymmm\AE> andypugh: QFH antennas are intended for circular polarized singlas
[18:41:33] <pfred1> andypugh you made a robot?
[18:41:43] <Jymmm\AE> signals
[18:41:53] <andypugh> pfred1: Not really. More a radio control car with weapons on it.
[18:42:04] <pfred1> andypugh oh like a battlebot?
[18:42:50] <andypugh> pfred1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CvT0tLQB1I
[18:43:08] <tjb1> andypugh: which one are you
[18:43:20] <pfred1> bah I updated this machine yesterday and I still haven't fixed my vdpau
[18:43:33] <andypugh> The one hiding from the camera.
[18:43:47] <pfred1> oh no I see blue people!
[18:44:01] <tjb1> Daydreaming of tagging that woman? :P
[18:44:08] <andypugh> (middle one of the SMIDSY team)
[18:44:33] <Jymmm\AE> red or black?
[18:44:53] <tjb1> Middle, I only seen two
[18:44:59] <tjb1> One guy sitting down and a tall guy with glasses
[18:45:12] <pfred1> well until I fix my vdpau all my colors are wrong
[18:45:14] <cradek> JT-Shop: I forget - are you the guy who makes bicycle parts?
[18:45:25] <pfred1> I had it fixed but the update broke my whole system
[18:45:32] <tjb1> Oh I see you now.
[18:45:34] <Jymmm\AE> cradek: no he's hasn't been here in a while
[18:45:41] <andypugh> cradek: No, that was danimal
[18:45:47] <cradek> oh right, thanks
[18:45:54] <Jymmm\AE> cradek: in san diego
[18:45:57] <cradek> trying to figure out a bicycle thing and was sure he'd know
[18:46:24] <andypugh> cradek: Ask anyway? I am fairly enthusiastic about bicycles.
[18:46:34] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crank_Set.jpg
[18:46:48] <pfred1> andypugh so you made that little battlebot?
[18:46:54] <andypugh> pfred1: Yes
[18:46:56] <cradek> I'm trying to buy (as a gift) the type of plastic pants guard shown here
[18:47:07] <pfred1> andypugh wow looks like you're winning to me
[18:47:30] <cradek> the chainring is marked CXP42, has 4 holes like this, center-center distance of opposite holes is 147.0mm
[18:47:55] <pfred1> andypugh the show robots are really cool
[18:47:57] <cradek> wondering how to order this (from amazon or the like) and how they're sized and whether they generally just can be added on
[18:48:08] <JT-Shop> cradek: that is dan
[18:48:22] <cradek> JT-Shop: right thanks :-)
[18:48:40] <andypugh> I suspect that they might be rather specific to the chainring
[18:48:43] <JT-Shop> tjb1: I just used a normal micro switch
[18:48:52] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Thats what I am waiting on
[18:49:04] <tjb1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/220973486771?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[18:49:04] <cradek> I was afraid of that
[18:49:23] <cradek> I don't see any reason they should be special except for diameter, though
[18:51:42] <Jymmm\AE> cradek: this is his website... http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/
[18:51:49] <JT-Shop> the hole pattern on both my Giant and the borrowed Trek seem to be the same as the photo
[18:52:05] <Jymmm\AE> cradek: there's a chainring calculator on there too
[18:52:10] <cradek> yes the holes are just like that, seems pretty standard
[18:53:52] <tjb1> JT-Shop: How far does yours float before it trips the switch?
[18:53:56] <andypugh> You could _probably_ mount a bash-guard. Those are stronger and mount to the chainring mounting bolts. not to the chainring
[18:54:16] <cradek> hmmm
[18:54:17] <JT-Shop> tjb1: not very far about 3/16" or so
[18:54:37] <tjb1> So do you set your probing to set the probe activation at like -3/16?
[18:54:53] <tjb1> So when it raises to 0 the torch isnt floating anymore
[18:55:03] <andypugh> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/hope-bash-guard/
[18:55:11] <cradek> I think she also wants a larger outer (largest) chain ring. maybe it shouldn't be a surprise and we should take it to a bike shop and do it all at once.
[18:55:31] <JT-Shop> after I probe the surface I move up the amount needed to be at Z0 then set the G92 Z0 then move up to pierce height
[18:55:40] <andypugh> Ah, no. They actually _replace_ the larger chainring. That's not what was wanted
[18:56:17] <cradek> oh yeah, that would be bad. as-is, she only uses the largest one.
[18:56:37] <tjb1> So when it trips the switch it should be technically -.1875 down
[18:57:00] <tjb1> so it has to raise .1875 before the torch is technically at 0 and then like another .160 for the pierce
[18:57:16] <andypugh> Ugly universal one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rixen-Kaul-Unidisc-Chainring-Chain-Guard-suits-most-bikes-Smoke-Colour-/200794139338
[18:58:10] <cradek> huh I don't see how that could even attach
[18:58:22] <JT-Shop> tjb1: yes, I just measured the distance to Z0 and have you seen my touch off ngc file?
[18:58:28] <tjb1> Yes
[18:58:39] <JT-Shop> it's all in there
[18:58:42] <tjb1> Ill probably study that this week
[18:58:48] <andypugh> It screws in to the hole on the end of the crank. Of course that requires a crank with a hole in the end.
[18:58:56] <tjb1> If im not hunting im hoping to get the probing done this weekend
[18:59:02] <JT-Shop> be safe and buy her a box of rubber bands
[18:59:20] <andypugh> cradek: This might sound daft, bit it's probably easiest to make one.
[19:00:02] <cradek> in "Bike Chainring Chain Guard, 48T, 120mm BCD 4 bolts", what does BCD mean?
[19:00:22] <cradek> aha bolt circle diameter
[19:00:35] <andypugh> cradek: Classy alternative: http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/bags/other+brooks+products/Trouser+Strap/
[19:01:15] <tjb1> JT-Shop: What is Z#1
[19:01:29] <tjb1> Oh sorry I see it at the top now
[19:01:36] <JT-Shop> iirc
[19:01:59] <pfred1> binary coded decimal?
[19:02:35] <jrshaul> Can anyone recommend a laser-cuttable material with a low dielectric constant?
[19:02:53] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: PE
[19:03:04] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: can't do better than 0.66
[19:03:07] <pfred1> doesn't that release toxic fumes?
[19:03:22] <jrshaul> Doesn't matter.
[19:03:24] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: not PE, PVC and PTFE do.
[19:03:26] <jrshaul> Polyethylene?
[19:03:26] <pfred1> cool
[19:03:41] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: yes
[19:04:02] <jrshaul> The table I have lists it as 2.3.
[19:04:04] <jrshaul> How'd you get .66?
[19:04:10] <jrshaul> That's lower than vacuum.
[19:04:25] <pcw_home> Magic
[19:04:27] <JT-Shop> I like this on Dan's web site "These are aluminum, and will obviously wear faster than ti or stainless, so they're best left for racing or the ultimate weight weenies."
[19:04:35] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: It's the best off0the0shell you'll find.
[19:04:54] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: anything else, will be exotic and $$$$$$$$
[19:05:17] <pcw_home> Well foams would be lower
[19:05:21] <jrshaul> JT-Shop: I don't know what that's talking about, but isn't titanium bike parts a recipe for things stretching out of tolerance?
[19:05:32] <Jymmm\AE> jdh: and the 2.3 you see in your chart will depend on various factors and densities. solid vs foam, etc
[19:05:48] <jrshaul> Ah.
[19:06:01] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: But just KISS, PE
[19:06:01] <JT-Shop> http://www.homebrewedcomponents.com/store.php
[19:06:03] <jrshaul> Is there a trade name for a rigid polyethylene foam?
[19:06:23] <jrshaul> And what - beyond density - can affect the capacitive properties?
[19:06:27] <Jymmm\AE> jrshaul: weather insulation?
[19:13:33] <andypugh> jrshaul: How about paxolin or similar?
[19:13:57] <andypugh> (and what makes you think that Titanium stretches?)
[19:14:25] <jrshaul> Warnings from cyclists about eBay TI wheel skewers.
[19:15:26] <t12> i believe shimanos most expensive chainring set is all ti?
[19:15:30] <t12> and crankset
[19:15:34] <jrshaul> Could be.
[19:15:53] <jrshaul> I'm not so sure stretch is as much of an issue as for skewers, though - there can be a hundred pounds of constant pressure on those.
[19:16:03] <jrshaul> Maybe more.
[19:16:22] <jrshaul> Has anyone here laser cut polyethylene?
[19:19:22] <andypugh> jrshaul: The same would probably be true of cheap mild-steel skewers. There are grades and qualities in titanium just as much so as in steel.
[19:20:40] <pfred1> all I've ever laser cut is a data disc
[19:24:33] <jrshaul> I've noticed a lot of places won't do it.
[19:24:40] <jrshaul> Is it a question of wattage or toxicity?
[19:25:13] <andypugh> This might not be the best place to ask, I am not sure how many of us have lasers.
[19:26:13] <Valen00> pcw_home you about?
[19:34:03] * pfred1 is just an eyepatch, a persian cat, and a laser from taking over the world! muwahahaha!
[19:36:19] <pcw_home> Yeah
[19:37:27] <andypugh> We can now switch between two different chars (optionally defined by a hex code) with a bit pin, or set a single char directly with a hal pin.
[19:40:16] <pcw_home> Thats nice so a line can be marked without using an output and a LED, Though I guess a rotary switch is another option
[19:41:10] <andypugh> Yes. %b\ff (there is a space at the end there) seems to work nicely.
[19:41:59] <pcw_home> Thats a hal bit select option?
[19:44:35] <andypugh> Yes.
[19:45:02] <andypugh> The format is %b then char-if-true char-if-false
[19:46:03] <andypugh> It's a bit of a kludge, as really the chars should be between the % and the b, but if that is the case then all the standard format chars are unavailable as boolean outputs
[19:59:37] <jp_> andypugh, anything written up yet if i wanted to tryout my 7i73?
[19:59:51] <andypugh> No, not yet
[20:06:23] <jdh> hey
[20:06:35] <Valen> back
[20:12:47] <tjb1> Anyone familiar with mitutoyo digital calipers?
[20:13:01] <ReadError> heard they are good
[20:13:10] <ReadError> i got a cheap ($30 or so) set from amazon
[20:13:13] <ReadError> but they work really well
[20:13:23] <ReadError> plus they convert to inches -> mm
[20:13:26] <ReadError> and fractions
[20:13:28] <ReadError> which is cool
[20:13:34] <tjb1> I got a Mitutoyo and love it
[20:13:46] <tjb1> Just wondering if the "------" means dead/low battery
[20:14:00] <tjb1> I replaced it and it still came up until I did the ORIGIN so not sure
[20:14:08] <jdh> I have one at work, had the same battery for years
[20:14:32] <tjb1> Mines been in there probably 3.5 years now
[20:15:08] <tjb1> This is mine - http://www.drillspot.com/products/74829/Mitutoyo_500-672_Digital_Caliper
[20:15:09] <andypugh> Two nice things you can do with them. 1) measure the dieamter of one hole, zero it, measure across 2 holes/bolts and it reads out centre distance directly.
[20:15:16] <jdh> mine only does 0.0005", measures things exactly the same as my $9.95 HF ones.
[20:15:42] <tjb1> You cant compare a Mitutoyo to HF tools
[20:15:51] <jdh> see above )
[20:15:56] <tjb1> Bad jdh, bad!
[20:16:23] <andypugh> 2) If you want a 20mm part on an imperial lathe: set the caliper to 20mm, zero it, switch to Imperial. Then when you measure the part it tells you how many thou you are over your 20mm.
[20:16:26] <jdh> if it were 0.0001, I'd agree.
[20:16:43] <tjb1> HF calipers suck
[20:16:57] <tjb1> Sloppy piles of junk and they eat batteries
[20:17:08] <r00t4rd3d> hf sucks period
[20:17:31] <jdh> ^shrug^ I agree in general about HF, but I do have 4 or 5 sets of those calipers :)
[20:17:34] <tjb1> I bought a 12" HF digital because I didnt have $300 to drop at the time on a Mitutoyo
[20:18:06] <Valen> I often get several cheap tools to use on stuff that doesn't matter
[20:18:07] <r00t4rd3d> find a crackhead to jack you one for half price
[20:18:08] <tjb1> Still dont have enough for a 12 and I kick myself every time I need to measure something 6-8 inches
[20:18:10] <Valen> keep the good one in its case
[20:18:33] <tjb1> I dont know if Mitutoyo still has the solar powered one but dont buy it
[20:19:10] <jdh> I'd be happy with a set that went to 7"
[20:19:42] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Carrera-Precision-CP9806-TF-Electronic-Fractional/dp/B003119EDE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1349053660&sr=8-3&keywords=digital+calipers
[20:19:43] <tjb1> Mine can go to 6.053
[20:19:47] <andypugh> I rather like my 4" one. Sometimes the 6" won't fit in.
[20:19:47] <ReadError> those are the ones i got
[20:19:55] <ReadError> they actually work pretty good for 20$
[20:20:20] <jdh> mine too, I get some shark teeth that go 6 5/8" though. It is more impressive with a .001 readout.
[20:20:21] <ReadError> plus the conversion is nice
[20:30:50] <andypugh> jp_: This forum post has a sample hal file fragment and the c-code (which should install just fine ith comp --install )
[20:30:51] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=39&id=22272&limit=6&start=24#24730
[20:57:57] <pfred1> I have 2 pair of HF calipers I like one and the other one kind of sucks
[20:58:06] <jdh> same kinds?
[20:58:09] <pfred1> but they are slightly different models
[20:58:18] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: greay and black?
[20:58:21] <pfred1> nah the good one is the black auto off
[20:58:31] <jdh> they have at least 3 different 6"ones
[20:58:32] <pfred1> the crap one is teh silver colred
[20:58:40] <Jymmm\AE> Yeah, that's what ppl are saying; they changed the design
[20:58:55] <pfred1> yeah get the black ones they're nice but they never go on sale
[20:59:17] <pfred1> they'll even bait and switch you in the ads
[21:00:16] <Jymmm\AE> The ONLY measuring device I get from HF are the 48" rulers, they're really nice
[21:01:19] <pfred1> I have a mike set with standards I think my calipers are fine
[21:01:21] <Jymmm\AE> This one http://www.harborfreight.com/40-aluminum-ruler-67836.html
[21:01:22] <Jymmm\AE> and
[21:01:57] <pfred1> why would yo uwant an aluminum ruler?
[21:02:17] <Jymmm\AE> perfect straight rule for cutting sheet materials
[21:02:29] <Tom_itx> SS
[21:02:30] <pfred1> I use steel ones
[21:02:43] <Tom_itx> me too
[21:02:44] <pfred1> yeah I gouge aluminum ones
[21:02:45] <Jymmm\AE> 48" ?
[21:02:52] <Tom_itx> why not?
[21:02:56] <Jymmm\AE> price
[21:03:02] <Jymmm\AE> unless you're offering
[21:03:04] <Tom_itx> acordingly
[21:03:21] <pfred1> I have bound rosewood for over 3 feet
[21:03:35] <Jymmm\AE> $3 for a 40" is not bad for just cutting fabrice, et
[21:03:38] <pfred1> just used it today to rip some plywood came out nice
[21:05:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=990-2994&CS_003=5341490&CS_010=990-2994
[21:05:37] <pfred1> I haven't gotten any decent tools lately
[21:06:12] <pfred1> oh wait that isn't 100% accurate
[21:06:16] <jdh> I thought we were talking about HG, not decent tools.
[21:06:26] <Jymmm\AE> Tom_itx: Cool, you going to give me a $200 48" ruler, how nice of you.
[21:06:27] <pfred1> I just got 2 Disston D8 handsaws
[21:06:39] <pfred1> $3 a piece!
[21:06:55] <pfred1> they go for like $130 a pop on fleabay
[21:07:06] <Tom_itx> i got some 12" ones really cheap because they were in a bankrupcy sale
[21:07:59] <Jymmm\AE> I wuld be leary of using a $200 ruler
[21:08:07] <pfred1> me too
[21:08:17] <Jymmm\AE> fear of bending it, getting it lost/stolen, etc
[21:08:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.geionline.com/rulers/general-purpose-inch-metric/1056a-2000r/
[21:08:37] <Tom_itx> they're flexible
[21:08:48] <tjb1> Ewww starrett :)
[21:09:10] <Jymmm\AE> Tom_itx: But one kinck is all it takes
[21:09:15] <Jymmm\AE> kink
[21:09:30] <Tom_itx> you'd have to be pretty hard on it
[21:09:46] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HEW5bXqKbU
[21:10:03] <Jymmm\AE> Just set something down on it not realizing it's there could do it. only takes once.
[21:10:22] <Tom_itx> http://www.geionline.com/certified-rulers/2020a/
[21:10:35] <Tom_itx> there's one certified to NIST for half that
[21:10:55] <pfred1> what the hell does NIST know? :)
[21:11:08] <Jymmm\AE> Or, just use my $3 for the occasional times I might need to =)
[21:11:42] <Tom_itx> National Institute of Standards and Technology
[21:11:42] <pfred1> I keep a piece of 3 inch C channel kicking around I use sometimes it is straight enough
[21:12:10] <Jymmm\AE> pfred1: same here, but only have 1" so far
[21:12:12] <pfred1> rot rolled FTW!
[21:12:17] <pfred1> hot rolled even
[21:12:35] <pfred1> nah i love my 3 inch C channel hot rolled steel stock
[21:12:44] <pfred1> steel 2x4s
[21:12:51] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm\AE a ball of string to use
[21:12:59] <pfred1> I use that too
[21:13:03] <pfred1> chalk line
[21:13:10] <Tom_itx> me too
[21:13:12] <Jymmm\AE> Tom_itx: No thanks, already have 100ft
[21:13:22] * pfred1 has a Stanley
[21:13:26] <Tom_itx> that's it?
[21:13:42] <Tom_itx> i think my chalk line is too
[21:13:51] <pfred1> chalk box
[21:13:53] <Jymmm\AE> Tom_itx: Yeah, I use that sit for everything... braided masonary line rated at 28#
[21:14:13] <Jymmm\AE> s/sit/shit/
[21:14:20] <pfred1> oh yeah that is right I just picked up a box of strikers
[21:14:47] <pfred1> $5 for the box I think it has like 5 expansion joint strikers and trowels and stuff in it
[21:14:52] <Tom_itx> that harbor freight one is probably annealed aluminum too
[21:15:12] <pfred1> horrible fright tools aren't even cheap anymore
[21:15:28] <pfred1> they send me their flier and the prices are up up up
[21:15:39] <Tom_itx> quality wise they are
[21:15:59] <pfred1> I use them in my garage for drop cloths
[21:16:26] <pfred1> like to cover my bench if I'm spray painting or something you know?
[21:16:37] <Jymmm\AE> I just goto HF when I have free scissor coupons
[21:16:51] <pfred1> pfft I have so many pairs of scissors now
[21:17:07] <pfred1> I wouldn't even take them for free at this point
[21:17:26] <Jymmm\AE> Yep, they work better than I expected them, and I dont have to search for a pair anymore.
[21:17:29] * pfred1 is set for life on scissors
[21:18:10] <Jymmm\AE> oh these are dual, toss and grab another pair.
[21:18:15] <Jymmm\AE> dull
[21:18:15] <pfred1> I have a drawer in my garage filled with scissors and snips
[21:19:14] <pfred1> when I used to commercial flat roof the mark of good scissors was when you could glide cut the rubber membrane with a pair
[21:19:37] <pfred1> everyone swore by K Mart sewing scissors
[21:19:56] <pfred1> they could do it when other kinds couldn't
[21:20:28] <Tom_itx> i've got probably a dozen pairs of Fiskars
[21:20:54] <pfred1> Tom_itx nobody goes up on a commercial flat roof with Fiskars
[21:21:09] <Jymmm\AE> Fiskars may have a lifetime warranty, but their quality has gone down.
[21:21:30] <Tom_itx> well i wouldn't either
[21:21:30] <pfred1> well we'd drop them then that is bye bye plastic handles
[21:21:45] <pfred1> 80 feet to the pavement
[21:22:36] <pfred1> plus you had to cut the burmesh sometimes with them
[21:22:45] <pfred1> get them all loaded up with cold tar
[21:23:26] <pfred1> have to clean them with diesel
[21:23:50] <pfred1> only stuff that gets that junk off
[21:26:14] <tjb1> Kill it with fire!
[21:33:30] <djdelorie> is it no longer possible to run linuxcnc as a plain user app in simulator-only mode?
[21:34:05] <pfred1> anything is possible
[21:34:33] <pfred1> some things do take some configuring though
[21:34:49] <djdelorie> I'm building on fedora 17, with --enable-simulator, and had to hack the Makefiles to not build things that relied on rtapi et al
[21:34:51] <Jymmm\AE> hi ds3
[21:35:02] <djdelorie> now, I can't run linuxcnc because it's trying to start up the realtime kernel subsystem
[21:35:23] <Jymmm\AE> djdelorie: why fedora?
[21:35:30] <pfred1> oh when you go stand alone yo ucan fire up rtai ahead of time there is a shell script to do it
[21:35:48] <djdelorie> Jymm: I work for Red Hat
[21:36:00] <pfred1> there is some differences between the CD image and build it yourself
[21:36:29] <djdelorie> except I don't *have* the realtime extensions
[21:36:38] <pfred1> well duh you have to build that too
[21:36:47] <djdelorie> I just want the simulator so I can test some gcode scripts
[21:37:01] <pfred1> oh yeah it should work without it
[21:37:34] <djdelorie> the cnc machine runs the ubuntu cd image install
[21:37:39] <pfred1> I had to build a kernel yesterday for this system I did an update and things got totally muffed up
[21:37:58] <pfred1> I learned something though
[21:38:15] <pfred1> libc doesn't like kernels with revisions past 255
[21:38:59] <djdelorie> what is redis-server and why does the simulator need it?
[21:39:57] <pfred1> I've never really noticed the rtai stuff to adversely affect system performance personally
[21:40:16] <pfred1> which is a round about way of saying skip simulating :)
[21:40:28] <djdelorie> I'm not going to attempt to add rtai to my Fedora kernel
[21:40:47] <pfred1> well build a side kernel
[21:41:05] <pfred1> or do you have no rebootitus?
[21:41:10] <djdelorie> I'm not going to try to build a different kernel for this machine *at all*
[21:41:17] <pfred1> something that can afflict linux users
[21:41:34] <pfred1> yeah it is a bit of a pain to get it to work
[21:42:08] <djdelorie> there's no reason to build a kernel. I want a simulator. There's no reason to need a realtime kernel or *any* root-level stuff just to simulate a gcode script
[21:42:20] <djdelorie> but I get stuff like this anyway: ./linuxcnc: line 512: /etc/init.d/realtime: No such file or directory
[21:42:45] <djdelorie> core_sim.hal:7: /envy/dj/cnc/linuxcnc/linuxcnc-inst/bin/rtapi_app exited without becoming ready
[21:43:19] <pfred1> yeah it seems like you're not involking in sim mode
[21:43:25] <pfred1> invoking even
[21:46:38] <djdelorie> ah, found it - there are TWO things named "linuxcnc" - one in bin/ and one in the (nonstandard) scripts/
[21:48:55] <pfred1> ah ha!
[21:49:13] <pfred1> yeah you have to execute it from scripts
[21:49:21] <djdelorie> the demo script is not tracing properly...
[21:49:25] <pfred1> with . in front of it or something
[21:50:13] <pfred1> part of that build it yourself odditity i mentioned earlier
[21:50:13] <djdelorie> curves are very messed up
[21:50:43] <pfred1> the CD image is a lot more straightforward
[21:51:49] <djdelorie> what, boot a whole 'nother operating system just to see if a gcode script works?
[21:52:09] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/tmp/linuxcnc-demo-curves.png
[21:52:11] <pfred1> no just adjust to the minor differences
[21:52:58] <pfred1> least you found the scripts directory
[21:53:35] <pfred1> that one had me swinging until cradek told me about it
[21:53:55] <djdelorie> there shouldn't be two programs with the same name anyway
[21:55:34] <pfred1> well there aren't
[21:55:41] <pfred1> there is a program and a script :)
[21:56:05] <djdelorie> there's no difference in Linux, they're both executables
[21:56:08] <pfred1> but to execute that thing in scripts yo uneed to put a floating dot ahead of it or something
[21:56:26] <pfred1> I forget what the rationale is for it
[21:56:32] <pfred1> but I remember it needs it
[21:57:58] <pfred1> let me lok on my other machine see if I can find a notes file
[21:57:59] <djdelorie> curves are definitely broken...
[21:59:23] <pfred1> $ . scripts/emc-environment ; scripts/emc
[21:59:32] <pfred1> there is that silly floating dot
[22:00:43] <djdelorie> oh wait, that's linuxcnc-2.5, not git...
[22:01:06] <djdelorie> no scripts/ directory in the git build
[22:02:02] <pfred1> yeah my build is ancient
[22:02:27] <djdelorie> I mean, curves were broken in my 2.5 build, still can't run git...
[23:49:13] <Jymmm\AE> djdelorie: ping
[23:49:21] <djdelorie> just ask the question
[23:49:38] <Jymmm\AE> djdelorie: you do a lot of woodworking?
[23:49:46] <djdelorie> some, as a hobby
[23:50:23] <Jymmm\AE> djdelorie: I need to cut some 1x2 and 1x4 to length but without any chipout, suggestions?
[23:50:36] <Jymmm\AE> taping is too cumbersome
[23:50:42] <djdelorie> buy a better saw blade :-)
[23:50:49] <Jymmm\AE> such as?
[23:51:24] <Jymmm\AE> it's a diablo blade, not that chepa
[23:51:24] <djdelorie> a plywood blade (the high side rake ones, not the cheap circular saw ones) will also cut plain wood without much chipout
[23:51:29] <djdelorie> also, make a zero-clearance fence for your saw
[23:52:01] <Jymmm\AE> got a pic?
[23:53:13] <djdelorie> nope. Just get a piece of 1x4, bolt it to the back fence of your chop saw, and cut through it
[23:54:02] <Jymmm\AE> Oh, that. I already have that.
[23:54:56] <djdelorie> make a new one, cut specifically with the blade you're using
[23:55:17] <djdelorie> the plywood blade I have is a Freud "Ultimate Plywood and Melamine" blade
[23:55:54] <djdelorie> use hardwood for better results. Likewise, put one on the bed of the saw, so that the wood is 100% supported from behind
[23:56:10] <Jymmm\AE> ah, 80T blade
[23:56:18] <Jymmm\AE> Mine is 60T
[23:56:21] <Jymmm\AE> iirc
[23:56:26] <djdelorie> it's got an extreme ATB too
[23:57:01] <djdelorie> but mostly I cut 1x lumber on my table saw with my regular blade, just cut slow and make sure the blade is clean and sharp
[23:58:12] <Jymmm\AE> So the ATB basically varies the height of alternate teeth?
[23:59:03] <djdelorie> ATB is the left-right angle of the top of the tooth
[23:59:15] <djdelorie> the teeth on a plywood blade are more like fangs
[23:59:43] <djdelorie> so they act like knifes, slicing through the fibers, instead of like a metal cutting bit that just pushes through