#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-09-16

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[00:00:00] <pana> seems to me, that speciallty plywood places can order slightly larger sizes
[00:00:34] <pana> I don't know how much larger though
[00:00:54] <tjb1> Doubt I would ever use a 5x10
[00:01:12] <tjb1> It might never see routing either
[00:01:18] <pana> still 48x96 is a great size. full sheet of ply on it
[00:01:56] <pana> I'm starting to look at purchasing longer rails for mine so I can go a full 96"
[00:03:08] <pana> tired of cutting ply on the table saw into smaller pieces and then cutting on the router table.
[00:03:19] <tjb1> I lost a damn impossibly small turnbuckle for the rack and pinion on the cncrp
[00:03:31] <tjb1> I can not find a turnbuckle that small anywhere
[00:04:25] <pana> mcmaster carr?
[00:04:29] <tjb1> I did find one at lowes small enough I could probably cut another 1/2 off it
[00:04:46] <tjb1> I havent talked to Ahren yet to see how much a new one would be….probably $.75
[00:05:08] <pana> yeah and he's pretty good about parts
[00:05:47] <tjb1> well its $1.12 at mcmaster
[00:05:52] <pana> I got a bad thrust bearing due to some large steel pieces crushing it during shipping and a cracked bearing.
[00:06:16] <pana> replaced the thrust and gave me a complete 10 pack of bearings
[00:06:16] <tjb1> You can not beat mcmaster
[00:06:23] <tjb1> Nice
[00:06:31] <pana> I can't order from them as I'm in Canada.
[00:07:04] <tjb1> I went to lowes to get some SHCS
[00:07:14] <tjb1> $1.20 each for 5/16-18 x 21/2"
[00:07:16] <pana> pretty penny :)
[00:07:20] <tjb1> Its $9 for 25 at mcmaster
[00:07:31] <tjb1> thats 2-1/2"
[00:08:03] <tjb1> Even with the $5 shipping its still cheaper for me
[00:08:09] <pana> I ended up getting a commercial account at some bolt supply places where I live so I could afford all the bolts necessary :)
[00:08:29] <tjb1> The only places around me are fastenal and lowes
[00:08:40] <tjb1> I havent tried fastenal but I doubt they are any better
[00:08:53] <pana> a little. not much
[00:09:07] <tjb1> They did want $60 for a reamer...
[00:10:24] <pana> anyways, nice chatting. time for bed as I've got some cutting todo tomorrow
[00:10:33] <tjb1> goodnight
[00:10:46] <tjb1> I need to go too, gotta get the rack on tomorrow and figure out how to mount homing sensors
[02:04:18] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:16:40] <L33TG33KG34R> hello guys
[06:20:18] <Guest81629> Can anyone give me some direction on configuring a minimum speed for a pwm controlled spindle? My spindle ranges from 0-20000, but needs to be at least at 7000 to start turning... I've looked at the nist-lathe example but it does not seem to have the droids I'm looking for...
[06:27:43] <awallin_> Guest81629: look at the pwmgen documentation, there should be a minimum duty-cycle input pin
[06:28:17] <Guest81629> sounds handy, let me have a look
[06:30:55] <Guest81629> ok I think I have found it, seems pretty straight forward... so if I need 35% of 20k, then the command should look something like: pwmgen.0.min-dc 0.35
[06:58:20] <andypugh> Guest81629: Yes. But bear in mind that you will have zero output until you exceed that
[06:58:40] <andypugh> But that is probably what you want.
[07:09:28] <jthornton> I need something like that on my BP but it uses the GS2 VFD...
[07:32:08] <jthornton> I'm trying to use graphviz in my asciidoc and I'm missing some crucial key element. I have graphviz installed and have some graphviz in my file but when I run make I get this error
[07:32:24] <jthornton> undefined filter attribute in command: graphviz2png.py {verbose?-v} -o "{outdir={indir}}/{imagesdir=}{imagesdir?/}{target}" -L {layout=dot} -
[07:32:44] <jthornton> is there supposed to be something in the make file?
[07:39:57] <andypugh> I think it may be saying that there is no indication what files it is meant to be processing
[07:42:51] <jthornton> hmm, I just found out that graphviz is a built in filter to asciidoc and my installed one might have messed that up
[07:43:03] <jthornton> nope
[07:45:43] <jthornton> maybe mhaberler will wander by and give some advise
[07:46:28] <mhaberler> you mean asciidoc?
[07:46:43] <jthornton> yes
[07:47:02] <mhaberler> been there, hold on..
[07:47:04] <jthornton> I see your on the asciidoc filter page
[07:47:13] <mhaberler> yes;)
[07:48:40] <mhaberler> can you paste the output of 'asciidoc -v yourfile.txt'?
[07:49:19] <mhaberler> oh, I remember. this old asciidoc version cant default the target="filename" attribute
[07:49:23] <mhaberler> say like so:
[07:49:38] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/YYByYWw7
[07:49:55] <mhaberler> ["graphviz", target="sample2.png"]
[07:52:11] <jthornton> now I get http://pastebin.com/dJT27HV0
[07:53:49] <mhaberler> look at line 4: https://code.google.com/p/asciidoc-diag-filter/source/browse/diag-filter-old.conf
[07:54:39] <mhaberler> at the end you have '&& echo " "' after the dash; I bet this is missing iny your graphviz-filter.conf
[07:54:58] <mhaberler> should be in /etc/asciidoc/filters/graphviz
[07:55:25] <mhaberler> add it in your graphviz-filter.conf
[07:55:48] <jthornton> looking
[07:56:49] <mhaberler> just paste your graphviz-filter.conf
[07:58:34] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/BYeZbHv9
[08:00:00] <jthornton> so it should be {target}" -Tpng - && echo " "'
[08:00:14] <jthornton> and not {target}" -L {layout=dot} -'
[08:00:22] <mhaberler> right (but not sure if this is it)
[08:00:42] <mhaberler> give it a stab; could be that graphviz2png.py doesnt find the graphviz program
[08:01:30] <jthornton> ok
[08:01:52] <mhaberler> I mean the 'dot' program..
[08:03:02] <mhaberler> could it be you have
[08:03:18] <mhaberler> ["graphviz", target="sample2.txt"] instead of ["graphviz", target="sample2.png"] in your ,txt?
[08:03:59] <jthornton> the sample file that came installed shows ["graphviz", "sample1.png"]
[08:04:19] <mhaberler> ah, ok, then use that, the target= seems superfluous
[08:04:33] <mhaberler> just saw it in the log
[08:05:23] <jthornton> graphviz2png.py: error: no such option: -T
[08:07:30] <mhaberler> hm, could you post the art of the .txt file which has the graphviz block?
[08:07:35] <mhaberler> art/part
[08:08:11] <jthornton> http://pastebin.com/d34xbtJ3
[08:08:55] <mhaberler> trying here..
[08:10:05] <mhaberler> what does asciidoc --version say?
[08:10:24] <mhaberler> I have asciidoc 8.5.2
[08:10:25] <jthornton> 8.5.2
[08:10:52] <mhaberler> ok, your .txt formats fine here.. hm
[08:12:02] <mhaberler> out of 'which dot' is /usr/bin/dot ?
[08:12:54] <jthornton> I don't have a /usr/bin/dot
[08:13:06] <jthornton> just a /usr/bin/dotlockfile
[08:13:07] <mhaberler> aha. That is the graphviz program.. hold on
[08:13:32] <mhaberler> sudo apt-get install graphviz
[08:13:45] <mhaberler> then undo changes in graphviz-filter.conf
[08:14:25] <mhaberler> sorry, my bad.. was simpler than I thought
[08:15:06] <jthornton> no errors but no png
[08:15:35] <mhaberler> post output of 'asciidoc -v foo.txt' once more
[08:15:39] <jthornton> ok, this version still has the error that you have to run make twice to get the image
[08:15:48] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:15:56] <jthornton> YEA I have a graphic
[08:16:05] <jthornton> thanks mhaberler
[08:16:09] <mhaberler> super
[08:17:10] <jthornton> now to finger out what digraph G means
[08:17:30] <mhaberler> "left as an exercise for the reader";)
[08:18:46] <mhaberler> http://www.orient-lodge.com/node/3408
[08:20:43] <jthornton> thanks
[08:39:46] <archivist_> lump of metal in the uk fleabay 221123191311
[08:44:26] <Vq> jthornton: Definition of a directed graph called "G".
[08:45:03] <Vq> jthornton: dot is a fairly simple language.
[08:46:01] <Vq> digraph g { foo -> bar; bar -> baz; foo -> quux; } /* a complete renderable example */
[08:53:50] <jthornton> Vq, I see digraph structs too
[09:13:24] <JT-Shop> lump of metal seems to be removed
[09:20:31] <archivist_> it was a milling machine with paper tape control starting at 99p, worth a retrofit
[09:21:09] <jthornton> darn, and he pulled it
[09:22:29] <archivist_> seems a live listing still to me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221123191311
[09:22:31] <jthornton> someone actually has a mack xml file for me to convert to stepconf xml file on the forum
[09:22:46] <archivist_> Bostomatic 300 CNC Milling Machine
[09:22:47] <jthornton> ah I didn't go to uk
[09:23:16] <archivist_> usually ebay works across countries ok
[09:23:35] <jthornton> yea, that's why I didn't bother to go to uk ebay
[09:23:46] <jthornton> dang control cabinet is bigger than the mill
[09:23:50] <archivist_> if I had space and money I would have it
[09:24:01] <archivist_> well old
[09:39:45] <jp_> awallin_: you there?
[09:46:50] <jthornton> does the first block diagram look clear or should I make that into two separate blocks http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
[09:47:23] <jthornton> the middle block seems to run together for me
[09:47:43] <jp_> looks clear to me
[09:53:21] <jp_> awallin_: just wondering if you had compiled repsnapper in 10.04?
[09:59:32] <pcw_home> archivist_: Someone else asked about a Bostomatic 300 before
[09:59:34] <pcw_home> I think the fly-in-the-ointment is that its all hydraulic
[10:00:59] <archivist_> pcw_home, I just went off the idea, but it is probably a good source of castings to add sensible drives etc to
[10:05:48] <jthornton> see if this looks better http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/7i77.html
[10:29:13] <jp_> yeah that looks better
[10:30:15] <jp_> JT-Shop: do you use RS5000
[10:31:16] <jp_> the FB editor could be good for drawingthat stuff
[10:32:25] <jp_> jthornton: my bad wrong nick
[10:39:34] <andypugh> archivist_: Worth £5 just for the punched-tape reader :-)
[10:42:09] <awallin_> jp_: the latest 3d printing g-code I did was with slic3r, probably both on 10.04 and on 12.04
[10:46:25] <skunkworks__> logger[psha]:
[10:46:26] <logger[psha]> skunkworks__: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-09-16.html
[10:47:44] <jp_> awallin: how did you like repsnapper though?
[10:48:43] <JT-Shop> jp_: I'm out in the shop
[10:48:58] <JT-Shop> yes, I have RS5000 but don't use it very often
[10:52:10] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I sorted out the touch screen seems if you reverse an axis the min and max get reversed as well
[10:57:26] <awallin_> jp_: my recollection is that skeinforge is pretty confusing, repsnapper maybe less so. slic3r seems pretty straightforward.
[10:59:46] <jp_> awallin_: yes that is true repsnapper was the only one that gave a preview almost backplot style window to see what was happening with the code. I saw that you had played with it and was just looking to see what your experiences were.
[11:00:02] <skunkworks__> jp_: saw your video - very cool. How is it going?
[11:01:41] <jp_> Good just working on different materials in the hotend. My Hotend is a j-head/ makerbot mk6 blend.
[11:04:08] <jp_> as far as the machine goes it's pretty standard stuff
[11:06:46] <jp_> Guess the best way to get analog in into linuxcnc is arduino?
[11:09:45] <skunkworks__> probably easiest..
[11:09:55] <skunkworks__> I used it for spindle temp.
[11:10:30] <jp_> thought so
[11:10:58] <skunkworks__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-CdFd2Zakc&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[11:11:24] <jp_> PCW: analog board!!!!
[11:12:35] <skunkworks__> I used this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-CdFd2Zakc&feature=share&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[11:13:02] <skunkworks__> of course - non realtime but temp doesn't change very fast..
[11:14:40] <skunkworks__> heh - I mean - I used http://emergent.unpythonic.net/01198594294
[11:15:34] <jp_> yeah thats what i had planed on just need to get the ic's for my thermocouples
[11:22:14] <jp_> hmm. Im thinking a larger thermal mass is better
[11:25:08] <ReadError> anyone here done some mcmaster orders?
[11:27:26] <skunkworks__> yes
[11:31:57] <ReadError> how do they calculate shipping
[11:32:01] <ReadError> i see a place order button
[11:32:08] <ReadError> i can do willcall i suppose
[11:32:14] <ReadError> but was just wondering how much it would be to ship
[11:32:41] <JT-Shop> every day almost
[11:32:49] <ReadError> i mean
[11:32:52] <ReadError> calculation of price
[11:32:56] <skunkworks__> iirc - it gets added to the invoice after the fact.
[11:33:05] <ReadError> i assume when i place order, it goes through
[11:47:24] <andypugh> Analog? Mesa 7i87 ought to be plug-and-play
[11:59:30] * JT-Shop needs a 50 gallon tank for the plasma
[12:00:24] <JT-Shop> hmm a 7 cubic foot tank would do
[12:00:51] <Jymmm> decking material and pond liner?
[12:01:24] <JT-Shop> pressure tank, you apply a couple of lbs of air pressure to "pump" the water up to the water table
[12:01:36] <JT-Shop> then you vent the tank to empty the water table
[12:02:09] <Jymmm> Oh, I got one for $20 from CL
[12:02:31] <Jymmm> blue plastic
[12:03:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: 275galn http://kirksville.craigslist.org/grd/3243578737.html
[12:06:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: too expensive, but... http://ottumwa.craigslist.org/grd/3260712583.html
[12:09:25] <JT-Shop> too big to fit under the table
[12:09:36] <JT-Shop> wrong shape
[12:09:43] <JT-Shop> too tall
[12:09:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: RV shop, grey water tank
[12:10:10] <JT-Shop> needs to be 18" h x 24" w x 36" long or so
[12:11:04] <Jymmm> http://www.icondirect.com/categories/RV-Exterior-Parts/Holding-Tanks/
[12:12:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is 55gal enough?
[12:13:29] <JT-Shop> sure so what happens when you apply air pressure to a holding tank that is not designed to hold pressure
[12:13:48] <Tom_itx> it's how we pumped oil from 55gal drums :D
[12:14:15] <Jymmm> http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/portable-rv-fresh-water-tank-45-gallon/1605
[12:14:54] <Jymmm> 50 gallon bladder
[12:16:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: just machine one out of solid aluminum
[12:16:34] <IchGuckLive> Hi all !
[12:16:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: OH, shit... 4-8" PVC pipes
[12:19:02] <Tom_itx> get a plastic drum industrial soap came in or somthing
[12:19:13] <Tom_itx> i had a few 30gal ones like that
[12:19:21] <Tom_itx> they won't rust with the water
[12:19:30] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they'd handle a couple psi
[12:19:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I suggested that, but it wont fit under his table
[12:19:45] <Tom_itx> get a 20gal then
[12:19:50] <Jymmm> 18"
[12:19:54] <skunkworks__> cool - http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/55882-CnC-programs-Turbo-Mach3
[12:20:50] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: rust is not a problem with plasma water the sodium nitrite takes care of that
[12:21:05] <Tom_itx> oh
[12:21:17] <JT-Shop> the holding tanks are too flat
[12:21:28] <Tom_itx> lay a barrel on it's side
[12:22:12] <Tom_itx> how many gal do you need?
[12:22:15] <JT-Shop> that could work but the diameter is too big
[12:22:31] <Tom_itx> get some old 20lb lp tanks
[12:22:37] <JT-Shop> 50 but I'll only use 40 or so and not pull from the bottom
[12:22:59] <Tom_itx> err 30
[12:23:59] <JT-Shop> a water heater tank might work but you only find rusted out tanks...
[12:24:48] <Tom_itx> try a pool place
[12:25:01] <Jymmm> fiberglass tank?
[12:25:51] <JT-Shop> only pool place around here charges you to answer the phone :/
[12:27:09] <Tom_itx> beer kegs
[12:27:17] <Tom_itx> now tell me you didn't think of that???
[12:27:32] <Tom_itx> comes with a cool factor too
[12:27:55] <JT-Shop> LOL, I have a keg... hmmm
[12:29:37] <Jymmm> Find an abandoned trailer and harvest the holding tanks from it =)
[12:30:57] <Jymmm> or hit the junk yard and get a gasoline tank
[12:33:40] <Tom_itx> salvaged submarine missle launch tube
[12:34:18] <Jymmm> There ya go, dig a well under the plasma and just hand pump it out!
[12:38:18] <JT-Shop> be easier to just make one I think
[12:49:28] <jthornton> need to make a touch probe first
[12:49:36] <jthornton> hows yours working Tom_itx
[12:51:20] <jthornton> nap time
[12:54:36] <IchGuckLive> Question : Will this encoder make it to tread a Metric on a Tathe ? http://www.ebay.de/itm/RENCO-MODULAR-ENCODER-OPTICAL-INCREMENTAL-/260297277041?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item3c9aed3e71
[12:54:49] <IchGuckLive> Lathe = ? B)
[12:55:19] <IchGuckLive> 100ppr is not very high but on 600rpm proven
[12:57:06] <awallin_> looks like a big encoder for only 100ppr :) you might get 400 edges/rev in 4x mode..
[12:57:33] <IchGuckLive> ok
[12:58:07] <awallin_> don't they have the exact model&make on the ebay page? you should ask for a datasheet maybe..
[12:59:38] <IchGuckLive> at this price i shoudt give it a try
[13:00:42] <IchGuckLive> they got also a 256ppr for a mfg in stock single cahannel
[13:03:14] <awallin_> where is that 80servo seller? china?
[13:03:45] <IchGuckLive> Montville, New Jersey, Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
[13:06:37] <IchGuckLive> awallin_: im told you are on holiday in the caribics
[13:07:19] <awallin_> IchGuckLive: huh? I was up in lapland for a while...
[13:15:59] <IchGuckLive> ok
[13:17:27] <IchGuckLive> im off to the telescope clear cold night here good Photo shooting expected BY
[13:19:51] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Mains-pressure hot water tank ought to work.
[13:20:16] <andypugh> Genrally they arr stainless.
[13:24:29] <andypugh> JT-Shop: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Santon-unvented-cylinder-/221123454998
[13:24:57] <andypugh> Though I can't see any sign of any in the US. DO you do your hot water in some strange way?
[13:51:11] <JT-Shop> no, I use a normal water heater tank, mine is 50 gallon
[13:51:32] <JT-Shop> I looked on craigslist but all were new from dealers
[14:00:23] <andypugh> A normal one is OK with a head of 1 house...
[14:00:53] <JT-Shop> yea, I run my water pressure at 60psig
[14:08:55] <Tom_itx> put a rv regulator on it
[15:47:15] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:42:00] <skunkworks__> eh
[17:35:48] <tjb1> http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=4319428939902&ev=0
[17:40:30] <L33TG33KG34R> so I am at a dilema
[17:40:52] <L33TG33KG34R> I have ordered the CRP2448 from CNCRouterParts
[17:41:11] <L33TG33KG34R> and its due to arrive sometime this week
[17:41:25] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't have any electronics ordered
[17:41:30] <L33TG33KG34R> nor a spindle
[17:42:04] <L33TG33KG34R> I am hell bent on using LinuxCNC because next semester I have control theory which I want to apply to this build.
[17:42:29] <L33TG33KG34R> I have a couple of decisions that I need to make.
[17:42:39] <jp_> mesa hardware is good!!
[17:42:53] <tjb1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3zaRatH5M
[17:42:54] <L33TG33KG34R> 1) I want to do rigid tapping on this machine. I need an AC Servo?
[17:43:30] <jp_> servo would be recommended
[17:43:31] <L33TG33KG34R> 2) I was going to use the Mesa 6I25 with the 7I76 but I have no clue on the motors and drivers
[17:43:50] <Tom_itx> take a look at the 5i25 first
[17:44:01] <L33TG33KG34R> I want to keep this as cheap as possible (I know how contradictory that can get)
[17:44:05] <jp_> 6i25 is just pci E
[17:44:10] <Tom_itx> oh
[17:44:11] <jp_> is it not?
[17:44:14] <Tom_itx> dunno
[17:44:17] <micges> yes
[17:44:20] <jp_> think it is
[17:44:37] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't have no PCI capable Mobos. only PCI-E unless I can run PCI on PCI-E
[17:44:49] <L33TG33KG34R> it is simply PCI-E
[17:45:09] <micges> both are supported by linuxcnc
[17:45:21] <L33TG33KG34R> I understand that
[17:46:15] <L33TG33KG34R> I have $800 to spend at the moment. I'll have another ~$1.5k - $2k next year on more stuff
[17:46:26] <L33TG33KG34R> I need to assemble the machine once it gets here
[17:46:37] * skunkworks__ hugs linuxcnc again
[17:46:40] <jp_> What size of machine
[17:46:49] <L33TG33KG34R> 24" x 48" working area
[17:47:02] <L33TG33KG34R> with a 5" Z I believe
[17:47:13] * micges thinks that skunkworks is very close with linuxcnc :)
[17:47:14] <L33TG33KG34R> its the CRP2448 from CNCRouterParts
[17:48:20] <ReadError> im scared to update
[17:48:26] <ReadError> because it works so good right now
[17:49:17] <micges> if it's work don't touch it
[17:49:22] <L33TG33KG34R> I should really ask my question better
[17:49:37] <L33TG33KG34R> I'll be back
[17:49:37] <jp_> K this extruder is headed for the 4" rosebud
[18:04:41] <L33TG33KG34R> should I spend my $800 on getting my control hardware like my Mesa cards, cables, limit switches and maybe a spindle and drive or should I get my motors first?
[18:04:49] <L33TG33KG34R> plus I really don't know what kind of servos to get
[18:06:46] <L33TG33KG34R> plus I need to build a table to put everything on
[18:08:36] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html
[18:09:34] <L33TG33KG34R> these are DC servos?
[18:10:09] <Tom_itx> you want AC?
[18:10:11] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/ACServoMotor.html
[18:10:15] <L33TG33KG34R> no no
[18:10:17] <Tom_itx> you'll pay more
[18:10:40] <jp_> --on you budget DC is probably best
[18:10:50] <L33TG33KG34R> the machine I am getting is a rack and pinion but is belt driven from the stepper to the pinion
[18:11:12] <jdh> on a budget, steppers are probably best
[18:11:19] <L33TG33KG34R> with encoders?
[18:11:23] <Tom_itx> he want's to do rigid tapping
[18:14:07] <L33TG33KG34R> what about these guys?
[18:14:09] <andypugh> L33TG33KG34R: No real point with encoders on steppers.
[18:14:10] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.dmm-tech.com/products_main.html
[18:14:48] <jdh> I would also prefer servos, but my budget says steppers
[18:15:03] <andypugh> The price is good for dmm-tech, but they only work step/dir so you don't get all the advantages of closing the loop in LinuxCNC.
[18:15:23] <L33TG33KG34R> ah.
[18:15:24] <jp_> find som cheap PMSM with encoder and hall's and use the 8120's
[18:15:42] <andypugh> And AFAIK there is no encoder feedback out of the drives either, as the encoders they use are magnetic.
[18:17:53] <L33TG33KG34R> ok so I need to find cheap servos for my machine. onto the next task... what kind of spindle would let me do rigit tapping while letting me mill aluminum and plastics?
[18:18:51] <andypugh> Check the specs, if there is encoder feedback out of the drives to the PC, then you can run velocity-mode stepgens, and then LinuxCNC is closing the loop (using pulse-rate control rather than the typical analog voltage)
[18:19:56] <andypugh> L33TG33KG34R: I think you would need a fairly slow, high-torque one for that use.
[18:20:09] <L33TG33KG34R> like a really beefy AC servo?
[18:20:30] <andypugh> Maybe a geared spindle.
[18:20:43] <andypugh> What sort of machine is this?
[18:20:55] <L33TG33KG34R> I was thinking of taking one of those chinese AC spindles, gearing them down, adding an encoder
[18:21:08] <L33TG33KG34R> but then someone pointed out that their torque is at their high rpm end
[18:21:33] <tjb1> Anyone know the teeth per inch of a 20PA 20 Pitch rack?
[18:21:39] <andypugh> Yeah, if you are going to gear it, then a generic AC induction motor is as good as anything.
[18:21:40] <L33TG33KG34R> and that gearing them would cause them to fail since they are designed to run at 24k rom and the slightest misalignment will cause them to fail
[18:22:21] <Tom_itx> tjb1 the key number seems to be 20
[18:26:17] <tjb1> So I need to find the Diametral Pitch?
[18:29:20] <L33TG33KG34R> would I be saving myself a lot of grief and not do rigid tapping? I guess it would be cheaper
[18:29:31] <Tom_itx> likely so
[18:30:44] <L33TG33KG34R> I guess a belt driven rack and pinion has its limitations. maybe servos are a bit overkill for it?
[18:31:22] <jdh> I don't see the relationship between rigid tapping and servos
[18:31:51] <L33TG33KG34R> I was originally thinking of getting these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280912711426
[18:32:38] <L33TG33KG34R> well I guess a 300W-400W servo should be good enough on my machine since they would provide a better torque curve than a stepper
[18:32:53] <jp_> Those are steppers
[18:32:56] <jdh> do you already have the machien?
[18:32:57] <L33TG33KG34R> I know they are
[18:33:02] <L33TG33KG34R> no I don't
[18:33:02] <jp_> k
[18:43:34] <andypugh> The dmm-tech is probably a better bet than those steppers.
[18:47:14] <andypugh> Though about twice the price. (I wonder why dmm publish prices in USD not CAD?)
[18:51:18] <andypugh> I think it you only have $800 for 4 motors + drives + PSU then it will have to be Steppers.
[18:52:33] <jdh> what does the machine mfg suggest for motors?
[18:55:15] <tjb1> What a weird number of washers per package…435 or 192 hmm
[18:55:44] <L33TG33KG34R> well the manufacturer uses steppers mainly
[18:55:54] <L33TG33KG34R> I ordered mine with NEMA 34 mounts
[18:56:21] <L33TG33KG34R> the only thing in DMM's catalog thats a NEMA 34 size is their 750W motor
[19:10:01] <tjb1> For cable chain, do I only need half of axis travel?
[19:10:04] <andypugh> Servos are by no means always to NEMA standards. No reason that they should be, either.
[19:10:16] <L33TG33KG34R> I understand that
[19:10:36] <andypugh> (NEMA is only a set of US standards)
[19:10:44] <L33TG33KG34R> so my best bet right now would be to stick with steppers until I can start making parts with this machine
[19:10:51] <L33TG33KG34R> then I can upgrade it later on
[19:11:06] <andypugh> Seems sensible.
[19:11:31] <jdh> then you can put the steppers on your other machine
[19:11:33] <andypugh> With that eBay set you can start moving motors direct from the parport.
[19:11:56] <andypugh> And it might be that steppers do all that you need.
[19:12:07] <L33TG33KG34R> ok. so what kind of spindle lets me do rigid tapping? I am assuming that it has to have an encoder, slow and has to reverse (duh)
[19:12:36] <andypugh> Anything with an encoder, and which can reverse in no more than a couple of turns.
[19:12:36] <L33TG33KG34R> I am new to this all so I really have no clue what I need
[19:15:45] <andypugh> It also needs enough torque to rotate the tap. Do you want to tap 1/16" or 1"? (Like skunkworks does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLcztAbgEcU&feature=plcp )
[19:17:29] <L33TG33KG34R> I can't think of anything thats 1" which needs to be tapped
[19:17:32] <L33TG33KG34R> :?/
[19:17:42] <L33TG33KG34R> :/*
[19:18:17] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d:
[19:18:24] <L33TG33KG34R> yes very
[19:18:54] <tjb1> Anyone in here using the cables from CNCrouterparts?
[19:21:38] <skunkworks__> It doesn't even grunt tapping that. ;)
[19:24:28] <andypugh> I tend to make ub my own cables. What's special about the CNCrouterparts ones?
[19:24:43] <tjb1> I need the thickness of the connector to see if it will fit in this igus chain
[19:24:52] <L33TG33KG34R> just use the cat 5e/6 cables
[19:25:07] <tjb1> cat5 are solid strand...
[19:25:12] <andypugh> Not snap-top chain then?
[19:25:18] <tjb1> Im not rich :D
[19:25:38] <andypugh> Cat5 is available solid or stranded. Patch cables tend to be stranded
[19:25:49] <L33TG33KG34R> ^^^
[19:25:52] <skunkworks__> you can get stranded - we are using it for encoders...
[19:26:25] <tjb1> None of the cat5 cable I have is stranded ;)
[19:26:40] <tjb1> Which consists of ethernet cables I cut up
[19:26:54] <andypugh> I wired my machine with Cat5 stranded. I mainly cut off the RJ plugs. It's a cheap source of decent signal cable that you can buy on a sunday afternoon.
[19:27:46] <tjb1> andypugh: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-on-Both-Side-1M-Plastic-Cable-Drag-Chain-Wire-Carrier-22x50mm-/251137948218?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a78fcfa3a
[19:28:59] <tjb1> McMaster is a little expensive for the cable carriers
[19:30:25] <andypugh> $42 per meter? There has to be cheaper available?
[19:30:39] <L33TG33KG34R> make your own?
[19:30:52] <tjb1> http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-x-50mm-1-07M-Open-on-Both-Side-Wire-Cable-Drag-Chain-/251133643462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a78bb4ac6
[19:30:59] <tjb1> Thats 34.34 per meter
[19:31:06] <tjb1> Mcmaster is like $20 per foot
[19:32:04] <jdh> I got some small stuff for much less than that
[19:32:11] <jdh> (via ebay)
[19:32:36] <andypugh> Even RS is cheaper than that, http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-trunkings/7569082/
[19:33:06] <tjb1> I need around 25x50
[19:33:13] <andypugh> And if _RS_ is cheaper somethign is very wrong
[19:33:39] <tjb1> Those 2 I linked were snap open
[19:34:02] <tjb1> I can get a meter of 15*50 for $19
[19:34:42] <andypugh> I think that the one I linked had a snap-off top. But I might be wrong, I didn't look that carefully.
[19:35:10] <andypugh> I bought a few random lengths second-hand from eBay and haven't run out yet.
[19:37:51] <L33TG33KG34R> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pcs-Cable-drag-chain-wire-carrier-10-10mm-R18-1000mm-40-/261093948458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cca697c2a
[19:37:56] <L33TG33KG34R> is that good enough?
[19:39:03] <L33TG33KG34R> from guy with a better rating http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pcs-Cable-drag-chain-wire-carrier-10-10mm-R18-1000mm-40-/290695734769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aed0e5f1
[19:39:29] <tjb1> 10x10 is too small
[19:39:44] <tjb1> Im gonna get this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-x-50mm-1-07M-Open-on-Both-Side-Wire-Cable-Drag-Chain-/251133643462?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a78bb4ac6
[19:40:32] <L33TG33KG34R> whatever floats your boat... other than buoyancy ;)
[19:42:10] <tjb1> Only 1 feedback on it out of 1,777 and its good...
[19:42:44] <tjb1> wish I could search an item or keyword in feedback...
[19:43:40] <L33TG33KG34R> so I am looking for a "geared" spindle?
[19:44:17] <andypugh> Maybe. Though many of the really big machines simply use a very powerful motor.
[19:44:44] <L33TG33KG34R> well this isn't a bridgeport that weighs 1 metric ton...
[19:45:18] <andypugh> Why state metric in that context?
[19:45:35] <andypugh> The tonne and the ton are equal for the purposes of hyperbole.
[19:46:07] <L33TG33KG34R> what about the spindles that people are using on their "grizzly" mills?
[19:46:30] <andypugh> I think you can buy them separately
[19:47:00] <L33TG33KG34R> like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C740zS9R9kk
[19:47:44] <jp_> check the sheerline site i think they have separate spindles
[19:49:47] <andypugh> You can buy a mini-mill spindle separately: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1912&category=
[19:50:35] <jdh> I'll sell you one just like that, with a mini-mill attached for another $100
[19:50:40] <andypugh> Not particularly cheap though, and only 350W
[19:55:55] <andypugh> This would be nice: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SETCO-6100-SERIES-SPINDLE-/221116779621
[19:56:30] <L33TG33KG34R> would be nice
[19:56:42] <L33TG33KG34R> but we can't always have nice things
[19:56:55] <andypugh> Looks like BT30 or similar. Much more useful than a collet nose
[19:58:54] <andypugh> Actually, from the measurements, I have no idea what taper it is: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[19:59:35] <andypugh> Time for sleep. Night all
[19:59:45] <L33TG33KG34R> nite
[20:24:15] <skunkworks__> L33TG33KG34R: the video you posted is only using the printer port
[20:25:01] <L33TG33KG34R> yup. I am giving up on the idea of having my machine be capable of rigid tapping
[20:25:14] <L33TG33KG34R> its just too small for it
[20:25:16] <toastydeath> tapping heads!
[20:25:38] <L33TG33KG34R> I am going to stick with my original plan of using the chinese spindle and vfd combo
[20:25:55] <toastydeath> is there an issue using floating tap holders instead of rigid tapping
[20:26:18] <L33TG33KG34R> me?
[20:26:21] <toastydeath> ya
[20:26:37] <toastydeath> you could probably make your own if you wanted
[20:26:45] <L33TG33KG34R> no I am building my first CNC so I have ordered a kit from CNCRouterParts
[20:27:17] <L33TG33KG34R> this kit is supposed to be sturdy but all the machines I have seen that do rigid tapping are all knee mill types made of steel
[20:27:20] <toastydeath> right but what i'm asking is, is there a reason you need rigid tapping where a standard floating tap holder would not be sufficient
[20:27:48] <L33TG33KG34R> well I was just looking for the appropriate spindle to get
[20:27:49] <toastydeath> unless you plan on using form taps instead of cut taps, any cnc can use a floating tap holder
[20:28:10] <toastydeath> form taps do not like floating tap holders and really do need rigid tapping, but cut taps will take anything
[20:34:06] <pana> I don't think a light weight alum frame with router/spindle would do tapping.
[20:34:41] <pana> torque at low speed would be the problem with the spindle
[20:35:54] <L33TG33KG34R> yeah I am just giving up on that idea altogether
[20:40:54] <toastydeath> uh, how big are these taps
[20:41:11] <L33TG33KG34R> not that big so I can just do them by hand
[20:41:16] <toastydeath> a little dinky 1/4 hp hand drill will drive half inch tap without much issue
[20:41:19] <toastydeath> in steel
[20:41:31] <L33TG33KG34R> I don't plan on going anything bigger than 1/2"
[20:41:35] <toastydeath> and if the torque curve of the motor sucks, just drive the tap faster to get into the power band
[20:41:53] <toastydeath> the tap holder will take up any error and it'll be fine
[20:42:07] <L33TG33KG34R> well the minimum rpm is 8000
[20:42:13] <L33TG33KG34R> so forget about reversing
[20:42:16] <toastydeath> that's a bit too fast.
[20:42:21] <toastydeath> for pretty much any tap.
[20:42:22] <L33TG33KG34R> yeah
[20:42:59] <tjb1> I want to see someone manual power tap at 8k rpm
[20:43:04] <tjb1> on..off haha
[20:43:07] <pana> I used a butterfly air tool to tap all the holes on my cncrouterparts alum frame
[20:43:22] <toastydeath> tjb1, I've power tapped at half that
[20:43:24] <L33TG33KG34R> don't they come tapped?
[20:43:24] <toastydeath> manually
[20:43:41] <pana> There's a special adapter you can get to put a tap into a 3/8 rachet
[20:43:44] <tjb1> With a through hole tap?
[20:43:48] <toastydeath> tjb1, no
[20:43:56] <toastydeath> manual tapping heads reverse FAST
[20:43:57] <tjb1> Wow you have a fast reaction
[20:44:02] <toastydeath> no reaction involved at all
[20:44:14] <tjb1> Oh I am talking about throwing tap in drill chuck or collet
[20:44:16] <toastydeath> tapping any any substantial speed without a tapping head is stupid
[20:44:19] <tjb1> No tapping heads :P
[20:44:21] <L33TG33KG34R> pana: doesn't 8020 tap the holes for you when you order from CNCRouterParts?
[20:44:33] <tjb1> Piss on 8020
[20:44:35] <pana> I purchased my frame from faztek.ca in canada instead of ordering it from the states. cheaper than shipping it from US.
[20:44:38] <tjb1> Misumi or T-Slots
[20:44:43] <L33TG33KG34R> ah
[20:45:12] <tjb1> dont order anything over 8ft from t-slots though
[20:45:25] <L33TG33KG34R> ugh, quebec
[20:45:56] <tjb1> L33TG33KG34R: http://tslots.com/
[20:46:05] <tjb1> Do you happen to be a student?
[20:47:10] <L33TG33KG34R> yes
[20:48:04] <tjb1> tslots has free shipping for students
[20:48:15] <L33TG33KG34R> well, its too late
[20:49:02] <jp_> L33TG33KG34R; im in ontario and i sell t-slot extrusion
[20:49:17] <jp_> and you need a shorter nic
[20:49:32] <L33TG33KG34R> you know tab complete for nicks is available
[20:49:36] <tjb1> jp_: I dont know if your client supports it but I can type l33 and hit tab
[20:50:16] <jp_> aw shit. well look at that
[20:50:35] <L33TG33KG34R> sigh... I need to route another 12 awg wire from the panel for this hitachi VFD to work :(
[20:51:44] <tjb1> I need to do a lot of stuff to get this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3zaRatH5M
[20:51:50] <tjb1> cutting steel with a plasma cutter :)
[20:51:51] <jp_> if you need more extrusion we can get you it cheaper. i know im cheaper than faztek
[20:52:01] <tjb1> jp_: What brand is yours?
[20:52:14] <jp_> vario
[20:52:19] <jp_> bosch copy
[20:53:29] <tjb1> I got tired of dealing with 8020 distributors
[20:53:57] <tjb1> Do you actually keep stock?
[20:54:07] <jp_> yes
[20:54:24] <jp_> usually a bundle of each profile
[20:54:49] <tjb1> None of the 8020 distributors keep any stock
[20:54:57] <tjb1> Which is why I got pissed off and went elsewhere
[20:55:28] <tjb1> Why do I need to pay sales tax because I have to order from a middle man who is ordering from out of state...
[20:56:18] <s1dev> tjb1: what are you using for power transfor for x and y?
[20:56:26] <tjb1> rack and pinion
[20:56:40] <tjb1> You can see it on the Y in the video
[21:27:09] <L33TG33KG34R> well it seems I need to spend part of my $800 in building a table to put the machine on and to get a 220V line from the panel to the afore mentioned table
[21:28:53] <pana> jp_ what would the price be on a 10ft length of 1545
[22:14:43] <tjb1> Anyone want/need a ATi Rage 128 video card?
[22:55:57] <pana> umm what for?
[22:56:12] <pana> not worth the shipping cost :)
[23:09:13] <Valen> people like them because they bother latnecy less pana
[23:09:22] <s1dev> going to make a CNC mill in a few months, how different is the concept from 3D printers? (besides, additive vs subtractive processes, more force excerted)
[23:16:19] <pana> X Y/A and Z
[23:16:33] <pana> sounds pretty similar, just a matter of scale
[23:17:47] <pana> speaking of latency, I was in the middle of a cut, and my smoothstepper pops up some crappy message about running out of data points from mach3.
[23:18:00] <pana> need to figure out how to cure that little problem
[23:18:01] <Valen> ahh i think i've found your problem
[23:18:06] <Valen> see where you said mach3
[23:18:09] <Valen> thats where it is
[23:18:10] <Valen> ;-P
[23:18:11] <pana> heh
[23:18:45] <pana> pretty sure thare are no smoothstepper linux drivers
[23:18:59] <pana> even if it is ethernet SS.
[23:23:57] <tjb1> how do you like the ss?
[23:38:06] <tjb1> Someone here known as slisgrinder on cnczone?
[23:49:52] <ursa> does anyone know of an open source PID controller for routers?