#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-08-29

[00:41:51] <tjb1> WillenCMD: Hi!
[02:04:46] <DJ9DJ> moin
[05:34:38] <cncbasher_> JT ?
[05:35:32] <jthornton> si
[05:35:42] <cncbasher_> hi
[05:35:51] <jthornton> morning
[05:36:03] <cncbasher_> i'll let you know on the tb6560 stuff
[05:36:15] <jthornton> ok
[05:36:33] <cncbasher_> i notice if i go to replace the tar file i dont get the option although i can add a jpg
[05:37:27] <cncbasher_> thinking this thread is going to get big . and trying to keep the tar files up to date , perhaps may be better in the wiki , what you think
[05:37:31] <jthornton> the forum software is a bit odd
[05:37:51] <jthornton> you could link to a wiki page
[05:37:55] <r00t4rd3d> if odd means garbage, sure.
[05:37:55] <jthornton> from the thread
[05:38:19] <cncbasher_> although must admit wiki editing it not my fort'e
[05:39:01] <jthornton> I can create a page for you if you like
[05:39:17] <cncbasher_> theirs a few variations of boards , so i envisage probably 3 or 4 seperate configs in the end
[05:39:43] <cncbasher_> would you be so kind to start it off , and i'll update it from then
[05:39:49] <jthornton> just the pinout is different?
[05:39:52] <cncbasher_> yes
[05:40:36] <cncbasher_> i'm looking at a script to format the pins at a later date and add to stepconfig to produce it
[05:41:29] <cncbasher_> but when you have new people not only to linux and linuxcnc , theirs an uphill struggle lol
[05:41:54] <archivist> specially when they dont like reading :)
[05:42:07] <cncbasher_> however these boards do seem popular due to price , so an idiots guide may be a way to help them
[05:42:41] <cncbasher_> so long as they dont send the boards to me to repair them ...
[05:42:59] <archivist> specialy being careful with the psu and motor connections
[05:43:19] <cncbasher_> yea as it goes bang !
[05:43:24] <archivist> seen too many stories of the smoke getting out :)
[05:43:52] <cncbasher_> should be supplied with a plastic carrier bag .. so u can carry to the waste bin
[05:44:36] <r00t4rd3d> what u doing with the tb6560?
[05:44:52] <cncbasher_> as little as possible ...
[05:44:59] <archivist> I do nothing, I avoid
[05:45:13] <r00t4rd3d> i like mine
[05:45:14] <cncbasher_> they carry the plague
[05:45:38] <archivist> but plenty start with cheap as possible which means a board based on that sh..
[05:47:39] <jdh> the tb6560 isn't so bad, just the crap implementation
[05:49:02] <cncbasher_> yea i agree , and the documentation translation dont help
[05:50:34] <archivist> users unplugging motors while powered accounts for a portion of smoke escape
[05:51:40] <jdh> same for many other drivers though
[05:52:48] <archivist> depends on protection added to the driver
[05:53:27] <jthornton_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TB6560
[05:53:52] <cncbasher_> thanks john
[05:53:53] <jdh> sure, but that just adds to the price. The price is the only real selling point.
[05:53:58] <jthornton> np
[06:07:00] <cncbasher_> JT should i direct the wiki to the forum post for comments ?
[06:07:16] <jthornton_> sure
[06:07:26] <cncbasher_> rather than obscure the wiki with comments etc
[06:07:34] <jthornton_> otherwise no one will notice
[06:09:19] <cncbasher_> jt take a look now at the wiki , any changes you recon
[06:11:09] <jthornton> looks good to me
[06:12:24] <cncbasher_> thanks for the assistance
[06:12:29] <jthornton> np
[06:13:32] <cncbasher_> now should we bet on how many cannot get it working in say a one week period .. the winner takes over the thread ..
[06:18:48] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/226294
[06:19:53] <cncbasher_> looking nice
[06:20:14] <cncbasher_> good clean interface i think
[06:20:24] <jthornton> thanks
[06:20:41] <jthornton> it's fun actually once you start to figure out how to do it
[06:23:19] <archivist> I wonder if I should be creating a gui for my hobber project
[06:23:49] <jthornton> only archivist will know the answer to that :)
[06:24:14] <jthornton> is that the one with all the slides on it?
[06:24:28] <archivist> I need to set division ratios and angles etc
[06:24:54] <jthornton> sounds like a custom gui is what you need
[06:25:25] <archivist> and feed in helix angles of the cutter
[06:25:41] <archivist> and left/right hand
[06:28:27] <archivist> probably needs its own tool table as you never change a tool during a job, but each has a bunch of parameters the current tables cannot handle
[06:29:15] <jthornton> I wonder how you would use the parameters in linuxcnc?
[06:31:14] <Loetmichel> g'day!
[06:32:12] <archivist> jthornton, probably direct to hal comps
[06:32:29] <jthornton> ok, that makes sense now
[06:34:04] <archivist> the one i am restoring lack features, was a production tool
[06:34:44] <archivist> hanging a few motors and an encoder or three off it may make it just right
[06:34:56] <jthornton> cool
[06:39:38] <archivist> Z was a cam, that can be a stepper/servo, A needs a servo geared to the head by tooth qty cutter hand etc and Z differential angle of A to the division from the spindle
[07:16:31] <Tom_itx> looks good jthornton
[07:22:52] <r00t4rd3d> Eww torrents already of "No Easy Day"
[07:57:09] <jdh> connor: http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=87756
[08:03:55] <Jymmm> jdh: nice find =)
[08:07:43] <archivist> but if you dont have a posh grinder like him, a magnifier and dremel gets http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_08_07_screw_cutting_tool/IMG_1289.JPG
[08:08:45] <Jymmm> archivist: I need to get you a 6" rule =)
[08:09:43] <Jymmm> with 100THs on it for scale in the stuff you create
[08:09:53] <jdh> archivist: how do you keep the angled edges flat?
[08:10:21] <archivist> flat enough is my specification :)
[08:10:47] <archivist> the thread that tool cut http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_06_Leawood/IMG_1240.JPG
[08:10:47] <jdh> using a cylindrical grinding wheel?
[08:11:06] <archivist> yes
[08:11:50] <archivist> iirc that is 3/4 dia thread
[08:12:02] <jdh> DIY compression fitting?
[08:12:35] <archivist> not compression see solder on nipple
[08:13:07] <archivist> is for steam main drain taps
[08:13:39] <jdh> nifty.
[08:14:23] <archivist> cnc internal threading is fun to watch
[08:14:35] <Jymmm> Thank you jdh, I think you just gave me a solution to an issue I was having!
[08:15:25] <jdh> uhm... you are welcome I guess. Those DX egg things weren't my idea though.
[08:15:38] <Jymmm> DX eggs?
[08:15:45] <jdh> nevermind.
[08:17:09] <Jymmm> archivist: http://metaltronics.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/making-gears/
[08:20:19] <archivist> linuxcnc with a rotary does all that and more
[08:21:02] <Jymmm> I just see tiny made gears and think of you is all.
[08:25:05] <awallin> anyone built a telescope mount? needs large diameter worm gears..
[08:26:22] <archivist> getting your gear accurate will be fun
[08:27:29] <archivist> measuring accuracy is as hard, do you have a collimator/angle dekkor
[08:29:43] <archivist> most of the worm dividing we has at work was terrible when we measured, only the 1940's Boley jig mill had good enough worm division
[08:32:18] <gmagno> Hello, I don't want to be unfair with the seller, so, before saying his PCB drills (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-0-2mm-NEW-Carbide-PCB-Dremel-Jewelry-CNC-Drill-Bits-/140548880603?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item20b95db8db&_uhb=1) are crap, I'd like to share this problem I'm facing. I can't find the correct Z distance to drill PCB, I get too thin tracks or I get to rough... I've also noticed that the drill breaks... it is too l
[08:32:18] <gmagno> ong. After breaking it becomes more robust. Is it a dill problem? Are these drills ordinary? Do you recommend any other drills for pcb?
[08:33:14] <gmagno> I feel like I should break the drill before use it... which also seems stupid...
[08:33:19] <archivist> is it user error, or a sloppy machine
[08:34:39] <archivist> is your chuck concentricity beyond reproach
[08:35:19] <archivist> rpm high enough, feed rate correct
[08:36:57] <JT-Shop> cutting traces with a drill bit???
[08:36:59] <gmagno> archivist, rpm is about 1000rpm, feed rate is slow, if I increase speed the drill will break
[08:37:50] <gmagno> JT-Shop, what do you mean?
[08:38:01] <archivist> 1000rpm is very slow for those when drilling
[08:38:16] <JT-Shop> are you drilling holes or cutting grooves?
[08:38:17] <gmagno> archivist, I increase up to 20,000
[08:39:23] <gmagno> JT-Shop, not sure what cutting grooves is. But I'm talking about creating the pcb tracks, not drilling holes
[08:39:30] <gmagno> lemme upload a picture
[08:39:37] <archivist> wrong tool, user error
[08:39:40] <JT-Shop> can't do that with a drill bit
[08:40:00] <cncbasher_> gmagno: are you milling the copper away ?
[08:40:01] <jdh> you could try, but they would snap
[08:40:02] <archivist> use a v engraving bit
[08:41:48] <cncbasher_> those you show are only drilling bit's , you need good concentric spindle and high speeds
[08:42:31] <cncbasher_> they cannot take and side loads , such as milling , what spindle motor are you using
[08:43:29] <cncbasher_> any movement in your machine will kill those drill bits
[08:44:15] <gmagno> ok, I'm back from the garage, gonna upload the photos. Hmm, so I'm using the wrong drill bits to do this... :-/
[08:44:22] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/140838359198
[08:44:30] <jdh> something more like that.
[08:46:01] <gmagno> jdh, can I do 0.2 thick copper ways with that kind of drill?
[08:46:02] <cncbasher_> beware pcb drills on ebay some are drill bits only , and some are milling and called drill bits ( fishtail )
[08:46:42] <gmagno> cncbasher_, I think the term is mill, sorry for my mistake
[08:47:30] <jdh> gmagno: that is more a function of your machine.
[08:47:31] <cncbasher_> dont worry many people confuse the two for pcb working ..
[08:49:41] <gmagno> ok, finally I've uploaded the photo. Well, right now this is just to laugh a bit since you've solved the problem already... http://postimage.org/image/urfii3523/185dc384/
[08:50:21] <gmagno> that was done with a broken drill
[08:50:22] <cncbasher_> ok what type of machine are you using ?
[08:50:30] <gmagno> cncbasher_, what do you mean?
[08:50:37] <gmagno> cncbasher_, this machine was done by me
[08:50:42] <jdh> looks like crap, but not bad for a drdill bit
[08:50:56] <cncbasher_> diy router ?
[08:51:06] <cncbasher_> type of spindle ?
[08:51:09] <gmagno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUA4xg7bWC4&feature=plcp
[08:51:36] <gmagno> I'm using a dremel-like drill
[08:51:41] <gmagno> a cheap one
[08:51:47] <gmagno> it cost me about 15€ :D
[08:51:52] <Loetmichel> wronm rotation direction?
[08:51:56] <Loetmichel> wrong
[08:51:57] <cncbasher_> no chance the dremel is just not concentic enough
[08:52:25] <gmagno> cncbasher_, :( that's really bad news
[08:52:26] <cncbasher_> and any slop in the slides will just snap the drills
[08:52:45] <jthornton> gmagno, it's not that your using the wrong drill bits it's you don't use drill bits to engrave you use V cutters
[08:53:41] <cncbasher_> try v bits as they have more body to them for side loads
[08:54:22] <Loetmichel> gmagno: *giggle* ... did you wantetd to DRILL the holes , or burn them down( in the video)
[08:54:24] <gmagno> jthornton, I got that. But cncbasher_ is also saying that my dremel might be source of problems too. Anyway, I'll try with the one I have
[08:54:35] <gmagno> Loetmichel, :D I know
[08:54:35] <Loetmichel> -etd
[08:54:45] <jdh> no way to tell until you get a bit made for cutting.
[08:54:48] <cncbasher_> your only cutting small depths so having a slight side angle is no problem
[08:54:57] <gmagno> Loetmichel, I talked to ppl here in the channel, and I was told about very high rotation speed
[08:55:10] <Loetmichel> for engravoing: yes
[08:55:22] <Loetmichel> for drilling 3mm holes: NO ;-)
[08:55:56] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/226303
[08:56:04] <cncbasher_> dremels are not concentric as the bearings are in the mouldings and move .. use a proper spindle and you will transform to decent cutting
[08:57:18] <gmagno> ok
[08:57:24] <gmagno> jthornton, what's that?
[08:57:41] <cncbasher_> but then it depends on the mechanical rigidity of the machine any movement is going to cause problems with such small cutters
[08:57:45] <jthornton> just a gladevcp hal demo that runs with just hal
[08:59:39] <jthornton> gmagno, even if you had a proper spindle you still don't engrave with a 0.008" drill bit
[08:59:59] <jthornton> they are not designed to handle any side loads at all
[09:00:31] <jthornton> to drill a hole with one you need to be running about 50k RPM
[09:00:40] <gmagno> jthornton, hmm ok, didn't know that. I'm using 0.3mm, is that ok?
[09:00:54] <jthornton> ok for what?
[09:01:00] <jthornton> drilling a hole?
[09:01:05] <gmagno> yeah
[09:01:23] <gmagno> for milling I have to buy new ones
[09:01:31] <gmagno> actually, I'm already doing that
[09:02:46] <gmagno> jthornton, which minimum diameter would you recommend to engrave?
[09:03:01] <gmagno> bit diameter, I mean
[09:04:52] <jthornton> I don't make pcb boards so I assume it depends on the width you want
[09:05:02] <jthornton> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCB-router-engraver-engraving-tool-blade-cutter-bits-/160593156364?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256419190c
[09:05:25] * jthornton heads out
[09:08:14] <gmagno> ok, thanks a lot for helping! (once again...)
[09:11:34] <Loetmichel> cncbasher_: you're right, dremes have nothiing even close ti a good bearing. but still they can engrave, with the right tool
[09:12:03] <Loetmichel> and without swarf buildup ant the cutting edges
[09:13:20] <Loetmichel> gmagno: do you have a diamond disc?
[09:13:25] <Loetmichel> for the dremel?
[09:13:28] <gmagno> Loetmichel, never heard about that
[09:13:31] <gmagno> :)
[09:13:35] <Loetmichel> and some broken TC bits?
[09:13:47] <gmagno> lemme google on diamond disc
[09:14:10] <Loetmichel> gmagno_ german?
[09:14:16] <gmagno> portuguese
[09:14:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8958
[09:14:44] <Loetmichel> the engraving bits selfmade
[09:15:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8961 <- making them witr h a diamond disc
[09:15:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Stichelschleifen.avi
[09:16:05] <gmagno> Loetmichel, looks awesome
[09:17:05] <Loetmichel> just a warning: i needed about 20 broken Tungsten carbide bits before the first engraving bitz was cutting... needs a bit of experience to do that "freehand"
[09:19:57] <gmagno> those are great news
[09:20:18] <gmagno> gonna try to make one with my broken drill
[09:20:49] <L84Supper> anyone going to IMTS in 2 weeks?
[09:20:51] <gmagno> going back to the garage, and put my hands on work
[09:20:56] <gmagno> thanks for help!
[09:32:25] <cradek> L84Supper: I've been to one, and that's enough for me
[11:10:13] <Connor> jdh: Treadmill motor just came in. :)
[11:42:20] <jdh> connor: got a way to mount it?
[11:42:23] <jdh> belt?
[11:43:25] <Connor> Going belt drive.
[11:43:29] <Connor> I have Hoss's plans..
[11:43:44] <Connor> I'll mill out the mounts and stuff in next week or so.
[11:44:08] <Connor> I want to thread the tophat and then re-tram the machine.
[11:50:49] <Connor> Can you cut still with a 2 flute end mill ?
[11:51:09] <Connor> I'm just realizing that I've never done steel and I have one part to make for the PDB that requires steel.
[11:51:53] <jdh> just run the spindle twice as fast!
[11:52:58] <Connor> jdh: Nice find on those other internal threading tooling
[11:53:49] <jdh> I've got some blanks, might try some this w/e if the weather sucks
[12:04:29] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:04:36] <jdh> <all> Hi
[12:04:48] <IchGuckLive> isaac is stock in the golf cost shore
[12:05:05] <IchGuckLive> wwl-TV nice pictures
[12:05:15] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/ live
[12:05:41] <IchGuckLive> levy break water to the roof
[12:08:46] <IchGuckLive> no weather forcust had that stock in the predict
[13:07:38] <IchGuckLive> news conference
[14:36:38] <Connor> man, it's dead in here today.
[14:42:27] <jdh> <- working.
[14:43:26] <jdh> but, the drill rod I got from mcmaster was successfully delivered. Packed very well.
[14:44:59] <Connor> ROFL
[14:45:05] <Connor> 3rd time is the charm!
[14:45:46] <Connor> Debating weather to retram the mill and start cutting out the motor mounts.. or wait till I get the threading tool do the threading and then retram.
[14:46:13] <jdh> got blanks? get grinding.
[14:46:47] <Connor> Yes. But, I ordered 2 from Shars.. should be here in a day or two.
[14:46:53] <Connor> I need to order the pulleys and belt.
[14:47:51] <Connor> I'll have to get a new motor controller too.. because the stock one is only rated at 10amps.
[14:48:25] <Connor> the treadmill pulls 16 amps
[14:48:33] <jdh> I was going to clamp a lathe tool in the vise to cut down the drill rod shank, but can't find an r8 chuck anymore.
[14:49:43] <jdh> I'm thinking about trying to stick some 23's on my 7x instead. I have a tb6560 board in a box somewhere.
[14:51:47] <Connor> I'm still having issues with my 7x. Belt kept coming off.... I got a new pulley with side flanges.. then it started pulling the pulley off because it was press fit..
[14:52:07] <Connor> so I drill/tapped it for 4mm set screw.. dang it if it STILL isn't pulling it off.. set screw is working loose.
[14:52:25] <jdh> something bent or angled?
[14:52:48] <Connor> No. everything looks good. I've tweaked the motor angle till I'm blue in the face..
[14:53:05] <Connor> problem is.. when I start tightening it up.. it throws it off a tad.
[14:53:16] <Connor> VERY sensitive..
[14:53:19] <jdh> I should sell my used-once X2 to free up some space
[14:55:26] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbcc.pdf
[14:55:32] <Connor> looking at getting that speed controller.
[14:55:51] <jdh> reversing?
[14:55:56] <Connor> YUP! :)
[14:56:10] <Connor> with dynamic breaking too
[14:56:14] <jdh> they are $120ish?
[14:56:23] <Connor> that's the NON Reversing price.
[14:56:29] <jdh> oh.. how much?
[14:58:19] <Connor> http://www.galco.com/buy/KB-Electronics/KBCC-125R
[14:58:23] <Connor> 202.15
[14:58:46] <jdh> get a real motor and a vfd
[15:00:02] <Connor> VFD's are way out of my price range..
[15:00:24] <jdh> cheaper than that. Maybe not reversing though
[15:00:31] <Loetmichel> Connor: really?
[15:00:38] <Connor> But, then I have to buy another motor...
[15:00:42] <Loetmichel> no 50$ to spare?
[15:00:59] <syyl_> how much is the speed controler from kb?
[15:01:15] <Connor> the one that can reverse is $202.15
[15:01:35] <syyl_> for 200 bucks, you can get a vfd AND a new motor
[15:01:43] <syyl_> new, used motor ;)
[15:02:35] <Connor> 75.28 FOR THE KBIC-125 non-reversing model.
[15:02:41] <Connor> syyl_: Show me. :)
[15:02:53] <syyl_> ebay :)
[15:02:53] <jdh> for non-reversing, get a $25 ebay treadmill controller
[15:02:59] <mrsun> ye cheap vfds exists =)
[15:03:04] <mrsun> mine cost about $100
[15:03:17] <mrsun> or wait :P
[15:03:23] <mrsun> no .. about $200 :P
[15:04:06] <mrsun> yakasawa J1000
[15:04:41] <mrsun> the motor was a motor with bad bearings i got
[15:04:55] <mrsun> so total setup was about like $220 =)
[15:05:09] <Connor> 1305 watt motor, used from ebay. external fan blade. 1.75 amps Continues duty.
[15:05:21] <Connor> around 6500-7000 RPM @ 90v
[15:05:25] <syyl_> i got a few used vfds from ebay
[15:06:06] <Connor> What's the all the rage with VFD's vs SCR vs PWM etc etc..
[15:09:03] <Connor> Maybe I'm stupid for going the Treadmill motor way.. and the reversing is just for rigid tapping.. which, I'm not even doing.. I thought it would be nice to have the machine be able to reverse..
[15:18:33] <jdh> http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=28&PID=4581
[15:21:44] <jdh> http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=111&PID=4525
[15:22:08] <jdh> $200ish, bigass motor (compared to stock) and a vfd
[15:22:48] <Connor> 3600 RPM ?
[15:23:00] <Connor> 1HP.
[15:23:20] <jdh> do 1.5:1 belt?
[15:23:36] <jdh> stock motor is really like .5-.6HP
[15:26:53] <Connor> I'm not changing gears at this point..
[15:29:45] <jdh> there are some reversing KB's on ebay 120ish
[15:30:12] <jdh> and a make offer one.
[15:30:42] <Connor> What are you searching on ?
[15:31:19] <jdh> kbcc speed controller
[15:33:57] <jdh> 380463815418
[15:34:48] <jdh> the stock controller looks like a cloned KBIC
[15:47:09] <Connor> made a $95.00 offer on the 120.00 one.
[15:47:11] <Connor> we'll see.
[15:48:53] <andypugh> I blew up my motor and it took the KBIC with it. So I fitted a 3-phase motor: You can just about see it here: http://youtu.be/47y6RgAK--8
[15:49:31] <Connor> that's one hell of a motor.
[15:49:44] <andypugh> 1hp.
[15:49:54] <Connor> Looks bigger than that.
[15:50:05] <andypugh> It's pretty much the smallest there is.
[15:53:08] <andypugh> 80 frame. Similar on eBay for £78 brand-new.
[15:54:18] <andypugh> Then a second-hand inverter is about £75 too.
[15:54:36] <andypugh> Cheaper than the KBIC, easier to control, and less likely to blow up.
[15:55:56] <andypugh> The KBICs have the rather unfortunate feature that the speed control pot floats at mains voltage. Makes it non-trivial to control with a parallel port..
[15:56:27] <andypugh> (A DC-DC converter is part of the solution, if you need to)
[15:56:29] <Connor> andypugh: I already have the C-41 thingie to control it.
[15:56:46] <Connor> What I'm currently using on existing setup.
[16:04:43] <Nick001-Shop> Trying to tune a servo and I have alot of small spikes. How do I flatten them out? Scan is at http://www.janick.com/1/Scan-1.png Axis.0.f-error Does pastebin allow these kinds of shots?
[16:06:03] <Connor> got it for 110 + shipping.
[16:06:05] <Connor> not too bad.
[16:11:33] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop What's the scale?
[16:11:57] <andypugh> 200nm might be good.
[16:12:34] <tjb1> Hello channel
[16:15:58] <Nick001-Shop> 200u/div not sure of what i'm doing
[16:17:19] <Jymmm> tjb1: Hello viewer
[16:17:25] <tjb1> How are you Jymmm
[16:17:50] <Jymmm> tjb1: Other than Logistics, pretty good
[16:18:03] <tjb1> Shipping?
[16:18:19] <Jymmm> resourcing
[16:19:49] <tjb1> You trying to get it from china
[16:20:10] <Jymmm> No, USA
[16:21:04] <tjb1> That should be easy ;)
[16:23:52] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: 200u mm or 200 u in?
[16:25:14] <Nick001-Shop> 200n/div is real bad http://www.janick.com/1/scan-2.png
[16:25:24] <andypugh> Nick001-Shop: Anyway, the answer might be a bit of DGain. (probably .01, 0.001, .0001 sort of numbers)
[16:26:22] <andypugh> No, what I mean is if the f-error is 200nm (200 u-mm) then that might be as good as your machine can manage.
[16:26:26] <tjb1> Jymmm: Stuff is on the way
[16:26:29] <tjb1> WA to PA
[16:27:42] <Nick001-Shop> shouldn't that line be a lot flatter than that?
[16:30:03] <Nick001-Shop> same thing with the velocity - or is that showing coging from the magnets - permanent magnet dc motor
[16:30:45] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:31:27] <Jymmm> tjb1: heh, I wish it was that easy =)
[16:31:47] <tjb1> I hope it gets here soon, table needs built
[16:34:19] <tjb1> Welding frame saturday :D
[16:36:46] <tjb1> Any tips on how to keep everything square
[16:36:57] <Jymmm> a string
[16:37:09] <Jymmm> measure diagonally
[16:37:23] <Jymmm> then clamp like crazy
[16:37:25] <tjb1> I don't have enough to jig the whole thing up at once
[16:37:41] <Jymmm> you dont have enough clamps? get more
[16:37:58] <tjb1> I would need over 14 lol
[16:38:04] <Jymmm> ok
[16:38:10] <tjb1> Im going to cut everything
[16:38:13] <jthornton_> we use a thousand clamps and ratchet straps
[16:38:26] <tjb1> then sandwich the piece between two scraps clamping onto the other piecs
[16:38:40] <Jymmm> tjb1: clamps are cheap compared to something not ebing square
[16:38:44] <Jymmm> being
[16:38:48] <tjb1> sandwich the one I'm welding between 2 scraps that are clamped to the piece I'm welding
[16:38:57] <tjb1> then welding square on one side
[16:39:04] <tjb1> check the other side with square
[16:39:14] <jthornton_> tack every thing first then recheck for square then don't weld hot
[16:39:15] <tjb1> measure then tack
[16:39:17] <tjb1> and tack
[16:39:21] <tjb1> and more tacks ;)
[16:39:24] <tjb1> until finished
[16:39:54] <tjb1> Probably mig the corners and tig the flats
[16:40:19] <Jymmm> tjb1: but more clamps now
[16:40:21] <Jymmm> buy
[16:40:27] <tjb1> pipe?
[16:40:46] <Jymmm> depends, could be C
[16:40:59] <tjb1> Well I can't really think of a clamp that would help me
[16:41:07] <tjb1> besides a special one
[16:41:44] <Jymmm> do you have a TRUE square edge that you can use for everythign else?
[16:42:08] <tjb1> We have squares but no machinist squares
[16:42:40] <Jymmm> Not squares, a TRUE square jig that you can clamp other parts to
[16:43:17] <tjb1> no
[16:43:35] <jthornton_> upi kidy mrrfm s ;rbr; smf s dwistr\
[16:43:48] <Jymmm> you make a fixture that's "perfect", then use the clamps to secure the pieces to the fixture. But you STILl check for squaeness in case somethign moved.
[16:43:49] <Connor> Okay, Belt, Pulleys, Motor Controller on the way.. only thing left is the new bearings..
[16:44:17] <tjb1> I can frame up the extrusions to use as a flatter surface than anything I have
[16:44:27] <Jymmm> tjb1: and dont get lazy and not check each time.
[16:44:50] <Jymmm> dont rely upon the fixture, it's just to help out.
[16:44:54] <tjb1> I know
[16:44:57] <Jymmm> k
[16:45:00] <tjb1> I checked the garage floor, its out 1/4"
[16:45:17] <tjb1> so I will bolt all the extrusions together and setup on that
[16:45:27] <tjb1> They are the best I have
[16:45:47] <Jymmm> If layed flat =)
[16:46:03] <Connor> Ill' see about getting the alumn pipe extrusion from the local company for the motor mount.
[16:46:17] <tjb1> Well I can shim them, they are stiff enough they won't just fall on their own weight
[16:47:14] <Jymmm> tjb1: were you going to set this up on the ground?
[16:47:22] <tjb1> No
[16:47:31] <Jymmm> ok, that would have killed your back.
[16:47:39] <tjb1> Probably on a trailer we have
[16:47:53] <Jymmm> car trailer?
[16:47:55] <tjb1> yes
[16:48:09] <Jymmm> with nice beefy frame?
[16:48:15] <tjb1> yes but it was homemade
[16:48:18] <tjb1> so not nice a square
[16:48:24] <tjb1> *and
[16:48:25] <Jymmm> but flat?
[16:48:30] <tjb1> wooden deck
[16:48:46] <Jymmm> forget the deck part, I'm tlaking steel
[16:48:58] <Jymmm> something you cna CLAMP to
[16:49:11] <tjb1> Doubt it, we didn't build it
[16:49:13] <Jymmm> that's perfectly flat and not bowed
[16:49:24] <Jymmm> grab a piece of string and check =)
[16:49:30] <tjb1> Not at home :)
[16:49:42] <Jymmm> I idn't mean right now silly =)
[16:49:43] <tjb1> The deck is 2" thick
[16:49:53] <tjb1> the frame sides are 6-7" high
[16:50:01] <Jymmm> and dont set the deck on fire either =)
[16:50:26] <Jymmm> unless you have a bag of marshmellows
[16:50:32] <tjb1> I gotta practice tig before I play on the frame
[16:51:00] <tjb1> Are you experienced with tig?
[16:51:14] <Jymmm> nope
[16:51:33] <Jymmm> talk to jt on that
[16:51:49] <tjb1> jt or jthor?
[16:52:04] <Jymmm> they are one in the same (usually)
[16:52:19] <tjb1> jthornton_:
[16:52:37] <Jymmm> and no plastic or spring clamps
[16:52:49] <tjb1> Can you recommend an amperage for 3/32 tungsten on 1/8 tubing?
[16:53:41] <Jymmm> tjb1: bunch of vise-grips may work too
[16:54:07] <tjb1> What do you think about sandwiching the piece?
[16:54:21] <tjb1> That should…should ensure the sides are parallel
[16:55:21] <Jymmm> you can use whatever "fixture" you want, it's what works best for you.
[16:55:38] <Jymmm> Just need to make sure pieces dont move
[16:55:46] <tjb1> I have it made so the frame doesn't HAVE to be perfect
[16:55:59] <tjb1> The gantry and x rails will be put together, then the flanges will be welded to the frame
[16:56:06] <tjb1> if you know what I mean
[16:56:22] <Jymmm> tjb1: Just make sure they are not ALL |_/
[16:56:30] <tjb1> Yeah
[16:56:48] <JT-Shop> don't need no fixture you can make it on the gravel and it can still come out square or not
[16:57:08] <tjb1> JT, whats a ballpark amp for 3/32 tungsten and 1/8" wall?
[16:57:40] <JT-Shop> what kind of joint
[16:57:47] <tjb1> butt
[16:57:48] <andypugh> 50?
[16:58:10] <andypugh> Speaking as a physicist that is, so more than 5 and less than 500 :-)
[16:58:11] <JT-Shop> 40-60
[16:58:34] <tjb1> Thank you
[16:58:45] <JT-Shop> 15cfm of argon
[16:59:08] <JT-Shop> A36?
[16:59:38] <tjb1> The tubing or filler?
[16:59:58] <Jymmm> tjb1: Depending on your pars, this might be an option... http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html or something like it
[17:00:00] <JT-Shop> the material your welding is structural tubing?
[17:00:18] <tjb1> Not sure JT, most likely
[17:00:25] <JT-Shop> if so that is A36, make sure you clean off the mill scale before TIG welding
[17:00:34] <tjb1> Wire wheel on grinder?
[17:00:53] <JT-Shop> I use a flap wheel on a 4 1/2 angle grinder
[17:01:00] <tjb1> We have lots of those
[17:01:13] <JT-Shop> I keep three grinders at the weld station with different wheels on them
[17:01:30] <JT-Shop> 80 grit works well and is not to agressive on the base metal
[17:01:33] <tjb1> Do you use chemical sharpeners?
[17:01:49] <JT-Shop> for the electrode?
[17:01:52] <tjb1> Yes
[17:02:01] <JT-Shop> grinder
[17:02:21] <JT-Shop> grind marks must be parallel to electrode shaft
[17:02:43] <tjb1> You have a dedicated for the tungsten or is contamination not that big of a problem?
[17:03:25] <JT-Shop> I seldom use that wheel for anything else it is too fine of a grit so almost dedicated
[17:04:02] <andypugh> Thorium dust inhalation FTW!
[17:05:58] <tjb1> I need to learn tig
[17:06:03] <tjb1> practice on good metal
[17:06:35] <JT-Shop> I don't breath when I sharpen them...
[17:06:47] <JT-Shop> practice on a piece of stainless
[17:07:12] <tjb1> Don't have any stainless
[17:07:51] <JT-Shop> clean steel it is then
[17:08:02] * JT-Shop wanders off to play with the other children
[17:10:24] <Tom_itx> count all fingers and toes when you finish
[17:18:35] <Loetmichel> and more urgend: check your wallet... depending on the age of the kids ;-)
[17:18:43] <Loetmichel> urgent
[17:18:57] <tjb1> I am the kid ;)
[18:09:03] <r00t4rd3d> how old are you?
[18:09:15] <r00t4rd3d> aww he left
[18:32:27] <Loetmichel> *snicker*
[18:41:13] <ReadError_> i found my true calling
[18:41:14] <ReadError_> bering.sea.gold.under.the.ice.s01e01.proper.hdtv.x264-momentum.mp4
[18:41:34] <Tom_itx> most of those are loozers
[18:41:55] <ReadError_> man these guys with a super ghetto setup made 28k in a few days
[18:42:00] <ReadError_> sounds good to me ;)
[18:42:13] <Tom_itx> the guy and his daughter fight continually and the blond guy has been in and out of prison for lack of child support etc
[18:42:45] <Tom_itx> would you trust someone else to be in control of your air supply?
[18:44:38] <Tom_itx> you gotta have plenty of up front money to get started too. buying the lease isn't cheap nor getting the equipment
[18:50:06] <ReadError_> blonde guy is gone
[18:51:06] <ReadError_> what they need is some type of hydraulic boom or arm
[18:51:08] <Tom_itx> he quit the one guy and finished the season on another boat
[18:51:19] <ReadError_> that can run in a grid type pattern
[18:51:21] <Tom_itx> one uses a front loader
[18:51:29] <ReadError_> and a spinning wheel to kick up the sand
[18:51:33] <ReadError_> this is a new season
[18:51:41] <ReadError_> they are actually doing it under ice
[18:51:45] <ReadError_> they cut a hole
[18:52:09] <Tom_itx> i know i saw it
[18:52:20] <Tom_itx> but the same guys are doing it
[18:52:26] <Tom_itx> just fewer of them
[19:01:11] <ReadError_> if you could only have 1 weapon (besides something that uses projectiles), what would it be?
[19:01:27] <ReadError_> i think i would choose a tactical tomahawk
[19:01:45] <Tom_itx> chemical
[19:02:00] <ReadError_> its for zombies
[19:02:02] <ReadError_> they are immune
[19:18:23] <jdh> fla
[19:18:46] <jdh> flame thrower or small nuke.
[19:35:53] <Connor> What's a good feed rate, RPM and Depth of cut for Aluminum using .25" dia HSS cutter ?
[19:35:56] <Connor> 2 flute.
[19:36:02] <Connor> no fluid.
[19:37:01] <Tom_itx> http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/index.html?model.code=FeedSpeeds
[19:37:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[19:38:06] <Tom_itx> how fast is your spindle?
[19:38:37] <Connor> currently can go to 3000rpm, Would like to keep it around 2200 with this motor though.. it's on loan and I don't want to blow it up. :)
[19:38:59] <Connor> Not making any sense from the chip load per tooth shet.
[19:39:01] <Connor> sheet.
[19:39:16] <Tom_itx> how much each tooth cuts every turn
[19:39:25] <Tom_itx> .004" is about average for aluminum
[19:39:37] <Tom_itx> x 2 flute
[19:39:40] <Connor> 6061 ALUM
[19:40:00] <Tom_itx> x rpm
[19:40:02] <Connor> What are they calling Series in this chart ?
[19:40:10] <Tom_itx> divided by surface speed
[19:40:20] <Tom_itx> gives you feed
[19:40:48] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[19:42:56] <Connor> Umm.. It wants me to be at 4278 RPM and 34.2 IPM on feed rate..
[19:43:09] <Connor> I can't go that fast.. yet.
[19:43:15] <Tom_itx> so lower the rpm
[19:43:17] <Tom_itx> to 2200
[19:43:32] <Tom_itx> about 18 ipm
[19:43:58] <Connor> Okay, So, you can go slow RPM without issue?
[19:44:32] <Tom_itx> you want to maintain the chip load
[19:44:43] <Tom_itx> at what did you figure it? .004"?
[19:44:51] <Connor> yes. .004"
[19:45:41] <Tom_itx> so 2200 x .004 x 2
[19:45:43] <Tom_itx> i think
[19:45:46] <Connor> okay, What about Depth of cut ?
[19:45:58] <Tom_itx> depends on the machine
[19:46:03] <Tom_itx> also width of cut
[19:46:14] <Tom_itx> unless you're cutting the whole cutter on a profile
[19:46:31] <Connor> This is profile cutting.
[19:46:37] <Connor> inside and outside.
[19:46:43] <Tom_itx> start shallow and go from there
[19:46:54] <Tom_itx> see what your machine will do
[19:47:09] <Connor> I'm a little gun shy now.. :(
[19:47:17] <Tom_itx> good
[19:47:18] <Connor> I don't want it to take forever.
[19:47:25] <Connor> to cut out the part either..
[19:47:30] <Tom_itx> carbide works better
[19:47:37] <Tom_itx> with no coolant
[19:47:40] <Connor> Don't have any.
[19:47:42] <Tom_itx> you should use coolant otherwise
[19:47:50] <Connor> just HSS.
[19:47:52] <Tom_itx> use a paintbrush with oil
[19:48:22] <Connor> I did all my mounts dry... but that was manual.
[19:48:34] <Tom_itx> you got dull cutters now too
[19:48:35] <Connor> so slow IPM
[19:48:52] <Connor> Probably.
[19:55:05] <jdh> spray wd40
[19:55:38] <Connor> I'm thinking a DOC of .075"
[19:57:04] <Connor> and lead in moves ?
[19:57:15] <Connor> or just plunge?
[19:57:40] <Tom_itx> depends on the cutter
[19:57:54] <Tom_itx> if it's centercutting you can but i generally try to ramp
[19:58:09] <Tom_itx> or come in from the side if possible
[19:58:40] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/products/view/4864/14quot_x_38quot_M42_Cobalt_Two_Flute_Single_End_Mill
[19:59:31] <Connor> okay, It does say Center Cutting in the description.
[20:00:41] <Connor> I have the same type in 1/8" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" and 3/4'
[20:00:51] <Connor> 3/4"
[20:02:05] <Tom_itx> your mill may handle up to maybe 3/8 or 1/2
[20:02:16] <Tom_itx> more than that and it may shake itself off the table
[20:02:29] <Connor> you mean cutter size?
[20:02:41] <Connor> or plunging with that size ?
[20:02:42] <Tom_itx> yeah
[20:03:29] <Connor> I've used the 3/4" for face cutting..
[20:03:52] <Connor> I like using 1/4 and 3/8 mostly though.
[20:06:12] <jdh> I like 1/2
[20:45:19] <jp__> is there a general cnc irc channel?
[20:46:03] <Tom_itx> you don't like this one?
[20:47:55] <jp__> yes i do but having an issue with fanuc tool life management and fanuc or fadal are of no help
[20:49:08] <Tom_itx> diycnc?
[20:49:18] <Tom_itx> doesn't sound that promising
[20:50:46] <Jymmm> wth?!
[20:51:45] <Tom_itx> jp__ what are you wanting to find out?
[20:52:15] <Tom_itx> maybe your local tool supplier can offer input
[20:52:30] <Tom_itx> ours was always bringing new junk to peddle
[20:53:40] <jp__> trying to setup TLM on a fadal with a fanuc 18i-mb5 the MTB up here has no support and in California the guy was like "here's a manual and fill your boots"
[20:54:13] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Hey, got the batteries today
[20:54:30] <Jymmm> jp__: Ask to speak to a manager
[20:54:42] <Jymmm> or someone else that actually knows.
[20:54:52] <Jymmm> seriously.
[20:56:03] <jp__> tried that route but will try again in the morn.
[20:56:56] <Jymmm> jp__: If that doens't work, then go the other way... From the top down the food chain. That usually resolves issues
[20:57:00] <jp__> fadal no longer sells machines bought by MAG i think
[20:57:18] <Jymmm> that doesn't mean someone doens't know about them
[20:58:10] <Jymmm> L84Supper: Did you get two tips (ipad/mini usb) but nothign to connect them to?
[23:25:43] <skorket> can anyone suggest a resource or reference on cutting different material for CNC operation?
[23:26:41] <Tom_itx> http://www.onsrud.com/plusdocs/Doc/index.html?model.code=FeedSpeeds
[23:28:27] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[23:28:30] <skorket> Tom_itx, thanks
[23:34:54] <skorket> Maybe this is a stupid question, but is it possible to CNC iron with a small desktop machine?
[23:35:37] <Jymmm> sure
[23:46:07] <r00t4rd3d> skorket, you have a pic of your desktop machine?
[23:46:23] <skorket> no...do you want one?
[23:46:25] <r00t4rd3d> that will tell us if you should try
[23:50:06] <skorket> http://imgur.com/YMSiy