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[00:47:51] <Jymmm> Anyone know where to find 6-40 x 2 screw for less than $1.50/ea
[01:10:18] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:14:08] <Jymmm> ug
[01:58:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: you awake yet?
[02:05:52] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:06:20] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: You're early, come back in 6m ;)
[04:09:56] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i am working since roughly three hours
[04:10:07] <Loetmichel> just found the time ti look at the IRC ;)
[04:30:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Just because you are at work, doens't mean your awake =)
[04:32:33] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: right. i had times when my colleauges said something like "you look like a pyjama on autopilot" ;-)
[04:32:44] <Jymmm> lol
[04:32:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: See, there ya go =)
[04:50:59] <Tom_itx> 6-40 x 2? you mean a double lead screw?
[04:53:45] <Tom_itx> or 2" long?
[06:42:09] <jthornton> os.system("%s/bin/halshow.tcl -- -ini %s" % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name)) launches halshow but I can not do anything in the gui
[06:42:27] <jthornton> how do I launch it as a separate window?
[06:59:19] <jthornton> or new window might be a better description
[07:22:31] <r00t4rd3d> "My Dearest in The Lord - KINDLY OPEN THE ATTACHED FILE"
[07:22:34] <r00t4rd3d> spammers
[07:23:58] <r00t4rd3d> damn Googles new tablet is out
[07:24:01] <r00t4rd3d> 199 lol
[07:57:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/efGyU.jpg
[07:57:35] <r00t4rd3d> that is pretty sweet
[07:58:04] <awallin> hah.. and 3x 24" is still cheaper than one 30" screen
[07:58:48] <awallin> you'd have to have them mounted quite low though.. the ergonomic positioning is with the top edge of the screen at eye-level
[07:59:10] <cradek> I'm surprised to learn that there are "Men's Health" nuts
[08:06:49] <jthornton> can anyone spot my syntax error? os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, "%s/bin/halshow.tcl", "-- -ini %s % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name))
[08:07:17] <awallin> missing "
[08:07:18] <jthornton> this one works but is not what I want os.system("%s/bin/halshow.tcl -- -ini %s" % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name))
[08:07:18] <awallin> ?
[08:07:25] <cradek> you have three "
[08:07:36] <jthornton> ok see it now thanks
[08:07:46] <cradek> shoot for an even number :-)
[08:09:39] <jthornton> now it says "global name s not defined" so it don't like the string os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, "%s/bin/halshow.tcl", "-- -ini" %s % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name))
[08:10:02] <jthornton> maybe I see it
[08:10:04] <archivist> so I got my super upgrade....not
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2145060481.png
[08:13:43] <jthornton> now a cryptic error message that monkey see monkey do has a puzzled look on his face
[08:13:46] <jthornton> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, "%s/bin/halshow.tcl", "-- -ini %s" % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name))
[08:13:46] <jthornton> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
[08:14:12] <awallin> %s is supposed to match one string, not a tuple?
[08:15:10] <awallin> "%s blabla" % string1 , "bla bla %s" % string2
[08:15:11] <awallin> maybe
[08:15:19] <jthornton> ok
[08:19:09] <jthornton> well I'm down to no error and no worky... be back later to try some more
[08:23:59] <r00t4rd3d> archivist, lol
[08:24:07] <r00t4rd3d> is ur site any faster?
[08:29:40] <awallin> archivist: I got 800Mbps last time I tried that on my GigE connection at work. eat my shorts.
[08:40:07] <jthornton> this command works to launch halshow but stops the python file so I'm trying to port that to os.spawn... any ideas on which one I should try?
[08:40:08] <jthornton> os.system("%s/bin/halshow.tcl -- -ini %s" % (self.tcl_dir,self.ini_name))
[08:45:05] <awallin> the python docs seem to suggest subprocess.call() is better
[08:57:44] <jthornton> ok, I'll look at that
[09:00:29] <jthornton> looks like subprocess.call waits for the command to complete which is not what I want I think
[09:05:27] <awallin> http://docs.python.org/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.Popen
[09:13:07] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError_,
http://vimeo.com/46546886
[09:13:16] <r00t4rd3d> rc car quadcopter
[09:35:03] <jthornton> well I got Popen to work with gedit
[09:37:20] <Jymmm> Popen?
[09:38:30] <jthornton> awallin, the magic is subprocess.Popen([self.tcl_dir, self.ini_name])
[09:39:21] <jthornton> read back a few lines Jymmm
[09:39:59] <jdh> isn't popen() deprecated?
[09:40:29] <jthornton> this is so cool! my gui and halshow side by side
[09:40:50] <jthornton> subprocess.Popen() is the latest
[09:41:49] <jthornton> I finally found this example subprocess.Popen(["/bin/mycmd", "myarg"]) and saw the light
[09:45:53] <jdh> the Popen doesn't block?
[09:47:53] <JT-Shop> block?
[09:48:04] <jdh> wait until the command complees.
[09:48:07] <jdh> or completes
[09:49:08] * cpresser uses pthreads if there are blocking IOs in the program :)
[09:49:10] <JT-Shop> no, it just returns something
[09:51:20] <cpresser> for some IOs you can also define timeouts for blocking access (at least for serial read)
[10:27:07] <Connor> jdh: No, Not yet.. I'll get to it.. kinda low on my priority list.
[10:29:29] <jdh> same hole pattern as the black hat thingie that covered the top of the Z
[10:30:21] <jdh> if I ever brought it inside, I'd cam a cover
[10:38:10] <Connor> Ah.
[10:42:04] <Jymmm> That just sounds dirty for some reason.
[10:42:43] <jdh> been a while, huh.
[10:42:54] <jdh> you don't need to answer that.
[10:45:47] <Jymmm> jdh: Since you asked... Here's the full 3D video with multiple viewing angles and smellovision
[10:46:54] <Connor> Jymmm: Dude, your so not right....
[10:47:42] <Jymmm> Connor: Oh come on, it was just a take off of the old grosser than gross jokes
[10:48:05] <Jymmm> it wasn't THAT bad
[10:48:28] <Connor> Jymmm: It wasn't just that joke.. :)
[10:49:33] <Jymmm> Connor: do tell
[11:03:39] <Jymmm> Newspaper column reader response: "To all you hunters who kill animals for food, shame on you; you ought to go to the store and buy the meat that was made there, where no animals were harmed."
[11:07:26] <Jymmm> "County to pay $250,000 to advertise lack of funds"
http://www.vijaybangaru.com/2007/09/27/your-tax-dollars-at-work/
[11:51:24] <theos> if they make more than $250,000 due to the ad, its a good investment
[12:17:25] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the Globe
[12:23:56] <taiden-cnc> whats up play ers
[12:24:09] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:24:15] <IchGuckLive> D525 working
[12:24:22] <taiden-cnc> IchGuckLive: like a well lubricated something
[12:24:25] <Jymmm> taiden-cnc: Ghetto CNC ?
[12:24:34] <taiden-cnc> Ghetto CNC is in da houz
[12:24:42] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[12:25:10] <Jymmm> taiden-cnc: houz music a la steppers?
[12:25:36] <taiden-ghettocnc> you know it boii
[12:25:43] <IchGuckLive> taiden-cnc: so now go and get the parts tgeter
[12:25:47] <taiden-ghettocnc> i just turned back on my bashlash comp
[12:25:53] <taiden-ghettocnc> now my circles are circles again!
[12:26:05] <taiden-ghettocnc> like this: O
[12:26:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> not like this: ()
[12:26:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> or this: []
[12:26:23] <taiden-ghettocnc> especially not this: {}
[12:26:49] <IchGuckLive> as it shoudt be
[12:27:10] <IchGuckLive> http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/TC.html isaac eye is forming
[12:27:42] <IchGuckLive> is there a national wether stream in the USA
[12:31:29] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah
[12:31:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's my window :)
[12:31:49] <taiden-ghettocnc> IchGuckLive: can we send emc2 the command to home from an .ngc file?
[12:31:59] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ustream.tv/
[12:32:01] <taiden-ghettocnc> i want to cut, home, cut, home, etc
[12:32:14] <IchGuckLive> WHY
[12:32:30] <taiden-ghettocnc> because everything should be more complicated than it needs to be
[12:33:01] <IchGuckLive> taiden-ghettocnc: you can
[12:36:51] <IchGuckLive> taiden-ghettocnc: via Mcodes
[12:42:11] <cpresser> IchGuckLive: which MCode does home your machine?
[12:42:41] <IchGuckLive> i use the button
[12:42:53] <IchGuckLive> you can remap the M codes
[12:43:38] <cpresser> i also have buttons; but they move to home; they dont home the machine
[12:43:53] <cpresser> so i was wondering which code actually triggers a homing cycle
[12:46:37] <Jymmm> cpresser: what's the difference?
[12:47:15] <cpresser> Jymmm: homing = searching for the home-position-switch
[12:47:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah
[12:47:32] <taiden-ghettocnc> i have a few production based files
[12:47:44] <taiden-ghettocnc> would like to home automatically
[12:47:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> between files
[12:47:51] <cpresser> 'rapid2home' might give a different position than 'homing' if your steppers lost steps :)
[12:48:12] <taiden-ghettocnc> to maintain consistency with steppers
[12:48:18] <IchGuckLive> halui.joint.x.home
[12:48:29] <Jymmm> cpresser: And 'homing' is what you have currently?
[12:49:03] <cpresser> i use the Axis-GUI to home my machine after startup
[12:49:26] <Jymmm> cpresser: but the button you were speaking of
[12:49:51] <cpresser> Jymmm: that is done via pyvcp and "MDI_COMMAND" in the ini
[12:50:08] <cpresser> its a simple button which calls 'G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0 A0'
[12:50:35] <Jymmm> cpresser: I'm asking it's functionality... search for switches -OR- just move to home location?
[12:51:16] <cpresser> currently mine just rapids to home, without a search for switches (since it is not available through MDI)
[12:51:32] <Jymmm> ok
[12:51:44] <Jymmm> I thought there was a HOME button already?
[12:51:59] <cpresser> but i am looking forward to implement a custom M-Code which triggers "halui.joint.x.home", so i can home from MDI
[12:52:14] <cpresser> Jymmm: there is. but taiden-ghettocnc is asking how to home from within a ngc-file :)
[12:52:32] <cpresser> we kinda lost the topic here^^
[12:52:38] <IchGuckLive> via O word MDI command
[12:52:55] <Jymmm> Hmmm, shouldn't that be part of a "pre ngc" file operation?
[12:52:56] <cradek> you can't do that, since homing can only happen in manual mode
[12:53:27] <IchGuckLive> MDI_COMMAND o<Home> call
[12:53:54] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah
[12:54:38] <taiden-ghettocnc> i'll have to give it a go
[12:54:44] <IchGuckLive> postgui.hal net Home halui.mdi-command-00 => halui.joint.x.home
[12:54:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> i also have to get cracking on a GUI for my parts
[12:55:01] <cradek> again, you can't do that, since homing can only happen in manual mode
[12:55:10] <taiden-ghettocnc> :[
[12:55:13] <cpresser> cradek: so triggering the halui-pins wia MDI will throw an error?
[12:55:18] <cradek> yes
[12:55:45] <Jymmm> why?
[12:56:05] <IchGuckLive> so only G53 to near the poin and then Hit F3 unhome and rehome
[12:56:32] <cradek> why do you want to home more than once?
[12:57:00] <IchGuckLive> for steploss rset on chees Touters
[12:57:10] <cpresser> cradek: because 'bad machines' lose steps. and some people try to work around it instead of fixing the machine :)
[12:57:24] <cradek> oh, ick
[12:57:29] <IchGuckLive> cpresser: You got the candy
[12:57:30] <cpresser> in the end, i ended up fixing my machine^^
[12:57:53] <cradek> a home switch is probably not repeatable to less than a step anyway, so you're trading one problem for another
[12:58:27] <IchGuckLive> cradek: but more precise then a chees
[12:59:02] <IchGuckLive> i wored on this on NC-frs at the cnc beginning
[12:59:27] <IchGuckLive> and i did this on every part
[12:59:57] <IchGuckLive> there where a entry in the settings home after every M2
[13:00:42] <cpresser> when you are losing steps we are not taking about 1-2 steps. but as stated above, its a problem which has to be fixed mechanically
[13:01:16] <IchGuckLive> agree on this as it is only a workaround for BAD BAD behavior
[13:01:20] <cpresser> splitting jobs and re-homing is just an ugly workaround
[13:01:34] <IchGuckLive> no need to be fixed on cradek or any other programmer
[13:02:09] <cradek> my experience is that a misconfigured stepper machine won't lose a step here and there - it'll stall and you'll have gross position loss, ruining the work and making it unsafe (in general) to home anyway
[13:02:21] <IchGuckLive> SOMeONE in the path of isacc
[13:04:13] <IchGuckLive> cradek: agree on that i did a complede remount on my big stepper router as it showed this behavior
[13:04:29] <cpresser> one of my early stepper-fails (prior to switching to emc2):
http://imagebin.org/226184 the engraving is supposed to be exacly inside the outline
[13:05:26] <Jymmm> I have had stalls and have been able to recover from many of them without scraping the workpiece.
[13:06:39] <IchGuckLive> everybody here seams to got once to that stall probem
[13:06:51] <IchGuckLive> as we all force the max out of the system
[13:10:14] <IchGuckLive> ok thanks for the info BY
[13:59:25] <taiden-ghettocnc> I LOVE D525MW
[13:59:29] <taiden-ghettocnc> i love lamp
[13:59:43] * archivist lights the lamp
[14:00:08] <awallin> a lot of lamps are LEDs now. any love left over for those?
[14:00:46] <archivist> LEDs die just as easily
[14:01:23] <archivist> when abused by mi microscope psu :)
[14:01:26] <archivist> my
[14:02:04] <awallin> the smoke must not be let out..
[14:04:27] <archivist> is a rather rough dc with a pot to set voltage for the bulb, just I used a 12v led type, it only lasted about the same as incandescent
[14:10:12] <jdh> so, it's not so much of a PSU as an LED torture device.
[14:10:58] <archivist> it has no problem with a 50 watt halogen
[14:11:52] <archivist> and the led claimed to be a halogen replacement, so me being me, must try that
[14:12:48] <jdh> no small print? "only for use with current regulated supply"?
[14:12:56] <Jymmm> but a halogen isn't a constant current device.
[14:13:15] <Jymmm> one example
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mr16-1-3w-650-700ma-constant-current-regulated-led-driver-8-40v-input-13557
[14:14:05] <jdh> I've replaced a lot of light-tower and indicator lights with drop-in LED replacments. Don't think I've any problems, but none are high-output devices.
[14:14:55] <archivist> no small print I remember about what 12v really meant :)
[14:16:35] <Jymmm> archivist: Here ya go, RC rainbow light
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/10w-rgb-led-driver-with-remote-controller-100921
[14:18:31] <archivist> I am not about to buy junk off dx
[14:19:09] <Jymmm> well, that one was a joke, but there are a few gems on DX
[14:20:02] <jdh> like... 48 condoms for $3.00us including shipping.
[14:20:28] <Jymmm> jdh: dnt forget the bonus 100 pregnacy tests for $1
[14:22:15] <Jymmm> archivist: If you care, there is an example constant current circuit using LM317 easily enough
[14:22:44] <Jymmm> it's in the National (now Ti) datasheet
[14:23:43] <archivist> are you trying to teach me to suck eggs
[14:24:59] <jdh> that is one 'saying' that I've never really understood.
[14:25:36] <Jymmm> http://users.telenet.be/davshomepage/current-source.htm
[14:26:23] <archivist> teaching granny to suck eggs is a reference to the fact that they are already good at it as they will be toothless at that age
[14:26:58] <jdh> is egg sucking something that .uk people do with often?
[14:27:03] <archivist> Jymmm, has failed to realise I am an electronics person in all the years I have lurked here
[14:27:20] <jdh> I thought you were a gear maker.
[14:27:42] <archivist> that is a second/third/4th career
[14:27:53] <Jymmm> yet doesn't practice it with his own equipment even though he knows better.
[14:28:31] <archivist> Jymmm, the bulb was specced for 12v as is the psu
[14:28:54] <archivist> tolerance of one or the other is out
[14:28:57] <Jymmm> archivist: But LEDs are not VOLTAGE DRIVEN driven devices.
[14:29:03] <Jymmm> -driven
[14:29:22] <Jymmm> I was just suggesting a easily solution
[14:29:29] <archivist> Jymmm, did you read the packet containing the led I HAD
[14:30:14] <Jymmm> did it say INTERNALLY REGULATED?
[14:31:44] <Jymmm> archivist: Damn dude, the LM317 was just a suggestion, quit being an ass about it.
[14:31:57] <archivist> some just dont say
http://www.ledcentre.uk.com/247-led-mr16/279-20-smd-power-5050-mr16-led-spot-light-bright-white-12-v-ac.html
[14:32:27] <archivist> hence I tested one and it failed
[14:33:36] <Jymmm> archivist: I know you have a clue, and we all test stuff, I just figured you could add that simple circuit into your existing PS and flip between halogen/led if you wanted to.
[14:33:39] <jdh> I have a microscope somewhere with a bad PSU. Wonder if I could use it for soldering.
[14:34:33] <Jymmm> I love LED's though some of this BIN stuff gets confusing.
[14:34:55] <Jymmm> it's difficult to keep on top of it all.
[14:35:23] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works/P1010237.JPG psu is hiding to the right rear
[14:36:51] <archivist> hand turning under a microscope is entertaining
[14:37:31] <Jymmm> Not as bright as halogen, but a couple of these toghether might output enough for microscope work
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20169658/
[14:37:55] <Jymmm> the base comes off with just two screws to easily mount to an angle bracket.
[14:38:25] <Jymmm> Actually runs off 5V little PS that comes with it.
[14:39:41] <archivist> for delicate work you need serious illumination, most led's I have tried are not up to it yet
[14:39:43] <Jymmm> Hmmm, somebody is actually using it for that...
http://www.lmscope.com/produkt22/Makrofotografie_mit_IKEA_LED_JANSJOE_en.shtml
[14:41:32] <jdh> I like HID's, but they are not so great on the eyes in air.
[14:41:56] <Jymmm> jdh: Are the HID's THAT much better underwater ?
[14:42:27] <jdh> they are more focusable (tight beam is better for me) and I like the Temp. better
[14:42:47] <Jymmm> jdh: 5900K ?
[14:43:18] <Jymmm> jdh: or more the 3000K range
[14:43:20] <Jymmm> ?
[14:44:57] <jdh> 5900ish
[14:44:58] <Jymmm> Ah, detailed pics; also mounted to a tiag mill
http://toolingaround.ca/tml.html
[14:49:13] <Jymmm> jdh: is 5000K ok?
[14:49:20] <jdh> probably
[14:49:35] <jdh> with a 6-degree beam.
[14:51:56] <Jymmm> jdh: I LOVE this light, great throw, and surprisingly good flood too. I've used it for driving on fwy at night (as a test) and for searching for things
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-th-t60-ha-ii-xm-lt60-5-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-1-x-18650-57007
[14:52:10] <andypugh> You can tell you are too fat when you can swap a spoke in your bicycle wheel in 15 minutes.
[14:52:22] <Jymmm> jdh: How good for diving is another question.
[14:53:40] <Jymmm> jdh: and the modes may be annoying to you
[14:54:13] <Jymmm> jdh: pcw_home got a couple too if you want to ask his 2¢
[14:55:01] <andypugh> I need to do some work on my motorbike headlights after crashing it. I wonder if I can swap the main beams for LEDs? The dips are HID and so bright that the Mains add almost nothing.
[14:55:29] <andypugh> (They just add a dull yellow glow around the edge of the dip pattern).
[14:56:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: They have (what they call) "drop in" modules. mostly for other handheld flashlights, but you could look into it
[14:57:33] <andypugh> Some of the dev cars have LED headlamps.
[14:57:51] <andypugh> Maybe I should prowl the crash-test parking area?
[14:58:40] <jdh> do headlamps and the like have to be approved by any governing body?
[14:58:49] <andypugh> Yes.
[14:58:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: example
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-cree-q5-1000-lumen-white-light-drop-in-led-module-52-7mm-42mm-8-4v-max-35243
[14:59:49] <tjb1> Hello everyone
[14:59:57] <jdh> http://shop.hidcountry.com/motorcycle-hid-kit-1/?gclid=CPHQk7CLi7ICFcHc4AodEhkAIg
[15:00:01] <Jymmm> jdh: someone made a dive light with it
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-cree-r2-1200-lumen-white-light-drop-in-led-module-52-7mm-42mm-8-4v-max-35241
[15:00:15] <jdh> I'm not diving with dx crap
[15:01:59] <andypugh> jdh: I can't (legally) put HIDs in the Main beams, because the bulb is visible. The dips are Projector, so are allowed.
[15:03:26] <Jymmm> jdh: you could test it while diving with your main light
[15:03:41] <Jymmm> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272061-SKU-26106-5xCree-15W-driver-schematics-12V-mod/page3
[15:05:44] <tjb1> Im getting irritated with cncrouterparts, told me the stuff would ship yesterday and absolutely no updates to the order.
[15:06:24] <jdh> remember back when you had to tear teh order form out of the back of the magazine, send them a money order and waith 6-8 weeks for delivery?
[15:07:52] <Connor> I ordered stuff from Digi key COD as a kid..
[15:07:55] <Connor> try that now..
[15:08:15] <jdh> now you get pissed if you don't get tracking info right away.
[15:08:29] <jdh> my W1 drill rod from mcmaster is out for delivery
[15:08:59] <Connor> that for you trying to make your own TTS holders?
[15:09:02] <Connor> the 1.5" stuff?
[15:09:03] <jdh> wish I could text the driver "it weighs 20 lbs, don't deliver it if it only weighs 6 oz"
[15:09:11] <jdh> yeah
[15:09:54] <Connor> You would have been better off if they just stuck a label to the bar itself and called it done.
[15:09:54] <tjb1> Its been 7 days since I ordered...
[15:09:56] <Jymmm> Heh, FedEx has a new service offering called 'FedEx SmartPost'. They take it mot of the way, then hand it over to the USPS for the last haul.
[15:09:56] <jdh> I have kind of lost interest now though. Got another 3/4" collet and ground the top down so the holders will sit flush against the spindle
[15:10:07] <tjb1> Thats not new Jymmm
[15:10:11] <jdh> Jymmm: no really new, takes for-fucking-ever
[15:10:17] <jdh> weeks
[15:10:19] <tjb1> UPS also has something like that
[15:10:28] <tjb1> UPS Basic
[15:10:49] <jdh> puts the snail back in snailmail
[15:10:51] <Jymmm> Oh, new to me. I usually never mail order.
[15:10:59] <jdh> I think there logo is a snail
[15:11:21] <Connor> I like USPS as far as Priority mail..
[15:11:33] <Connor> they even deliver on Saturdays...
[15:11:35] <jdh> me too, but it's a pain to drop off for me.
[15:11:42] <jdh> fedex ground/home does Sat.
[15:11:46] <Connor> and typically cheaper.
[15:11:54] <Jymmm> jdh: drop off?
[15:12:02] <Connor> jdh: You can schedule pickup for USPS for priority packages.
[15:12:09] <Jymmm> for free
[15:13:17] <Connor> When we ran a online store.. we used USPS almost exclusively.. and if we had a single Priority package, they would come and pick everything up..
[15:13:23] <jdh> http://static.woot.com/Images/Icons/64x64/SmartPost1.png
[15:13:33] <Connor> We just stuck them outside in a patio box.
[15:14:18] <Jymmm> You CAN use Priority Mail for inernational too, I just never have
[15:14:23] <Jymmm> international
[15:14:51] <Connor> Filling out the forms for international sucks... no matter WHO you use.
[15:15:17] <Jymmm> Connor: They dont want hand forms anymore, all online is prefered now
[15:16:06] <Connor> you still have to have the customs form that goes in the pouch on the item.
[15:16:16] <Jymmm> Connor: If you have a USPS account, you can send international for pickup for under 4lbs iirc
[15:16:42] <Jymmm> Connor: Well I'm speaking the CN22
[15:17:51] <Jymmm> Connor: err 13ounces
[15:19:57] <tjb1> How do the chinese on ebay sell stuff on ebay with free shipping and then pay more to ship it then the item cost?
[15:20:01] <Jymmm> Connor: pickup
http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc2_015.htm#ep2368072
[15:21:01] <Connor> tjb1: Because they still win in the end by taking that business away from the US ?
[15:21:03] <tjb1> Ive paid $.75 for something that they paid $1.80 to ship
[15:21:21] <jdh> .cn subsidized shipping (and currency)
[15:21:58] <tjb1> It said right on the envelop $1.80 ship
[15:22:10] <Jymmm> tjb1: Did it say USD ?
[15:22:21] <tjb1> yes
[15:22:31] <Jymmm> Really?
[15:22:38] <Jymmm> "$1.80 USD"
[15:22:44] <tjb1> pretty sure
[15:22:57] <Jymmm> Mine never have is why I was asking.
[15:22:59] <tjb1> Not that many $ out there anyway and the US is probably the lowest of them all
[15:24:07] <Jymmm> some of those (Like DX) do such mass mailing, typically ground, that they probably get a serious discount
[15:24:32] <Jymmm> as much as they can shove in a cargo container for a flat rate
[15:38:53] <PCW_> Well rats got the Gigabyte525 and the Hudson MB to test and both need DDR3 memory
[15:38:55] <PCW_> which I do not have unless I want to rob a desktop and anger some employee
[15:41:14] <jdh> go for it.
[15:42:05] <Jymmm> PCW_: Tell them it's in the name of science!
[15:43:17] <Jymmm> Hmmm, the gigabyte uses a realtek nic chipset, boo hiss hiss
[15:44:35] <Connor> Drill Rod not the same as Cold Rolled Steel is it ?
[15:44:41] <andypugh> No.
[15:44:55] <syyl> no, drill rod is a toolsteel, OD ground
[15:45:01] <PCW_> I suspect it will be pretty much identical to the Intel D525 (other than memory)
[15:45:17] <Connor> http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3523.0
[15:45:24] <Connor> Says he used drill rod..
[15:46:32] <jdh> small stuff is pretty cheap, and might not fall out of the box/tube.
[15:47:14] <Connor> needing a internal threading boring bar.. looks like I'm going to have to make it.
[15:49:45] <Connor> Thoughts on that ?
[15:50:11] <jdh> looks good. Might be easier to grind one though?
[15:50:22] <syyl> and withstand more abuse
[15:50:39] <syyl> a tool made from drillrod will not stand very long
[15:50:45] <Connor> jdh: My grinder sucks..
[15:50:51] <jdh> mine too!
[15:50:59] <syyl> or get komet thread turning tools
[15:51:04] <Jymmm> syyl: as opposed to?
[15:51:04] <Connor> I have a mini benchtop 3" wheels
[15:51:18] <Connor> syyl: This is for a one off deal..
[15:51:18] <syyl> opposed to anythinge else
[15:51:38] <Jymmm> syyl: No, I'm really asking here.
[15:51:48] <Connor> Looks like he heats up the drill rod and cools it off in water to harden it.
[15:51:55] <syyl> and i answered really
[15:51:57] <syyl> Connor
[15:52:09] <syyl> heat until its not attracted by a magnet any more
[15:52:11] <syyl> then quench
[15:52:28] <syyl> that will get dril rod glas-hard
[15:52:52] <syyl> then remove the scale by buffing/sanding
[15:52:59] <Jymmm> syyl: drill rod is worse than rebar? (I really don't know)
[15:53:06] <Connor> Okay, what If it's not true drill rod.. say just some cold rolled rod I get from the box store ?
[15:53:17] <syyl> and heat again, until it gets straw yellow, then quench again
[15:53:39] <syyl> "some cold rolled" will probably not have enough carbon in it
[15:53:49] <syyl> to allow hardening
[15:54:17] <Connor> why the 2nd heat and quench ?
[15:54:33] <Jymmm> hardening is the "bonding" of the carbon atoms in the alloy?
[15:54:43] <syyl> from the glowing/quenching its brittle and glas hard
[15:54:46] <syyl> it might break
[15:55:08] <syyl> the second process is called annealing
[15:55:16] <syyl> and makes it springy-hard
[15:55:16] <syyl> :D
[15:55:56] <Jymmm> syyl: hardening is the "bonding" / "alignment" of the carbon atoms in the alloy?
[15:56:03] <syyl> use wikipedia
[15:56:09] <syyl> i am no metallurgalist
[15:56:20] <syyl> metallurgist
[15:57:03] <Connor> I have 2 options. make one like that guy.. Or try to grind down a HSS blank I have (I have a few).. I've never ground bits before..
[15:57:17] <jdh> connor: $9.17 for 12" of 0.75 from mcmaster
[15:58:19] <Connor> and my mini grinder isn't up for it. I can borrow my father-in-laws 5" grinder. and try the HSS, or see about digging up some Drill Rod and trying this method..
[15:59:21] <Connor> the one with the lathe looks like it would be easier to get the proper angles.
[15:59:43] <Jymmm> interesting
https://gist.github.com/9ea9ca629de87675ab97
[16:00:22] <jdh> connor: shars 404-1571
[16:00:57] <syyl> do you have an angle grinder, Connor?
[16:01:05] <syyl> rough the tool out with it
[16:01:11] <syyl> then finish on the benchgrinder
[16:01:21] <Connor> syyl: Yes, a Ryobi.. and also a Dremel tool.
[16:01:29] <jdh> my angle grinder would probably grind better than my benchgrinder
[16:03:29] <syyl> lay the contour out on the hss, rough out and keep it cool
[16:03:29] <DaViruz> my bench grinder is pretty weak, but i've found it doesn't really matter, it's easy to overheat while grinding despite that
[16:03:43] <syyl> i use a water soaked rag..
[16:04:25] <syyl> if the toolbit starts to glow from grinding, you are pushing to hard :D
[16:05:23] <Connor> Wonder if Shars has layout dye...
[16:05:30] <Connor> for that matter.. what they would call it.
[16:05:34] <syyl> hmm
[16:05:39] <syyl> layout dye..
[16:05:47] <syyl> i use a fat edding pen
[16:05:48] <syyl> :D
[16:05:54] <jdh> sharpie
[16:06:07] <syyl> way less mess
[16:06:20] <Connor> what is it.. Dyecom Blue or something.. Spelling probably wrong.
[16:06:33] <syyl> dykem blue is a spotting blue
[16:06:38] <syyl> for scraping
[16:07:08] <syyl> not for layout :D
[16:07:18] <Connor> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DYKEM-Steel-Blue-Layout-Fluid-2C945
[16:07:20] <Connor> really ?
[16:07:27] <syyl> damn ;)
[16:07:36] <Connor> DYKEM Blue Layout Fluid, 4 Oz
[16:07:36] <syyl> ok, they have a layout blue too
[16:07:44] * syyl says nothing
[16:07:56] <jdh> what's the difference?
[16:07:57] <Connor> Cool. I can get that at Grainger..
[16:08:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8!
[16:08:10] <syyl> layout blue dries
[16:08:17] <syyl> spotting blue stays wet
[16:09:14] <syyl> mh, time to leave
[16:09:15] <syyl> ahoi!
[16:09:16] <Connor> Also have it in red
[16:09:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> d525 unexpected realtime delay
[16:09:42] <taiden-ghettocnc> i dont know what to say at this point
[16:10:01] <Connor> taiden-ghettocnc: need to adjust your base thread value
[16:10:13] <taiden-ghettocnc> can you help me with that?
[16:10:20] <taiden-ghettocnc> i dont know what that means by that name
[16:10:21] <andypugh> While doing the house my dad and I used to joke about "Stonemasons Green" and "Carpenters Red" as alternatives to "Engineers Blue" with much larger particle sizes.
[16:11:01] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: What motherboard?
[16:11:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> d525mw
[16:11:26] <taiden-ghettocnc> the supposed holy grail of linuxcnc motherboards
[16:11:40] <andypugh> Hmm, those are normally pretty immune to realtime delays.
[16:11:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> that was why i bought it
[16:12:00] <andypugh> I managed to make my D510 misbehave by plugging in a webcam.
[16:12:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> at the time of the error
[16:12:24] <taiden-ghettocnc> i had
[16:12:30] <taiden-ghettocnc> usb keyboard and mouse plugged in
[16:12:35] <taiden-ghettocnc> and empathy im client open
[16:12:39] <taiden-ghettocnc> and that's it
[16:12:42] <andypugh> Hmm.
[16:12:54] <andypugh> What base thread rate are you running?
[16:13:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> i dont know how to check that
[16:13:35] <andypugh> You presumably chose a number during configuration?
[16:13:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> yes, i believe I chose 16,000
[16:13:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> i took the maximum latency numbers i saw under hard load
[16:14:05] <taiden-ghettocnc> and added about 1,000
[16:14:48] <andypugh> You could try 20,000. I doubt that you will run out of step rate at that. But really 16k ought to be OK.
[16:14:59] <andypugh> Is hyperthreading off in the BIOS?
[16:15:02] <taiden-ghettocnc> yes
[16:15:11] <andypugh> isolcpus?
[16:15:13] <taiden-ghettocnc> i also have the isolcpu=1 boot flag
[16:15:37] <andypugh> Ignore it :-?
[16:15:43] <taiden-ghettocnc> ?
[16:15:56] <taiden-ghettocnc> when i dont use it, my latency numbers are ~18-30k
[16:15:57] <andypugh> Is it a common occurrence?
[16:16:14] <taiden-ghettocnc> all i know is i have gone through three used computers trying to find one that would work
[16:16:28] <taiden-ghettocnc> finally jumped on the d525mw as this computer is the backbone of my small business production
[16:16:45] <andypugh> I meant, consider ignoring the over-run, unless it is common. And note that you will only ever see it once per start-up of linuxCNC
[16:16:51] <taiden-ghettocnc> spent a couple days setting it up from scratch
[16:16:56] <taiden-ghettocnc> and today i got that error
[16:17:01] <taiden-ghettocnc> so
[16:17:05] <taiden-ghettocnc> i am just trying to figure out
[16:17:14] <taiden-ghettocnc> if at this point i try another motherboard
[16:17:23] <taiden-ghettocnc> ignore it and risk having production stop for a week again
[16:17:27] <taiden-ghettocnc> switch to mach3
[16:17:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> or give up entirely which is not an option
[16:17:47] <ries> I have a love and hate relationship with this :
http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2012/08/09/mit-students-create-hand-held-cnc-router-you-gotta-see-this/
[16:18:17] <Connor> slot cutters require you to cut the main slot first ?
[16:19:26] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: You are running software step-generation, stepper motors, and the parallel port I assume?
[16:19:36] <taiden-ghettocnc> yes
[16:19:37] <andypugh> Connor: No.
[16:20:03] <andypugh> And the message popped up in the middle of machining?
[16:20:07] <taiden-ghettocnc> yes
[16:20:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> i can send you dmesg output
[16:20:21] <taiden-ghettocnc> if that helps?
[16:20:32] <andypugh> Might be interesting. Put it on Pastebin?
[16:20:43] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc: what is empathy im client?
[16:20:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> http://pastebin.com/5HwsrFm5
[16:20:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's the irc client that comes on 10.04
[16:21:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> that i am currently using to chat with you fine gentlemen
[16:21:25] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/products/view/3137/38quot_HSS_TSlot_Cutter
[16:21:29] <Connor> That one sure looks like it..
[16:22:42] <andypugh> Connor: Ah. T-slot cutter yes. I thought you meant a "slot drill"
[16:22:56] <Jymmm> ries: If it requires the use of the strips on the material, kinda defeats the purpose
[16:23:02] <Connor> slot drill ?
[16:23:15] <Jymmm> ries: I said that wrong, but you know what I mean
[16:23:33] <Connor> damn, over $13.00 to ship a freak $6.00 tool
[16:23:35] <Connor> grumble.
[16:23:37] <ries> Jymmm: I think the next step for them could be to track the real traffeled distance, like how a mouse can do it… thinking out load...
[16:23:40] <andypugh> Connor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milling_cutter#Slot_drill
[16:24:43] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: I thought that the dmesg output came up with a message like "in recent history there have been 100,000, 60,000 and 170,000 clock cycles between successive calls, and the latter is so anomalously large…."
[16:24:52] <taiden-ghettocnc> me too
[16:24:56] <taiden-ghettocnc> i can't find anything
[16:24:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> on my old computer it would say things like
[16:25:09] <taiden-ghettocnc> what you just quotes
[16:25:11] <Connor> andypugh: Hmm. I would typically use a standard endmill for that vs a Slot drill
[16:25:12] <taiden-ghettocnc> quoted
[16:25:32] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's worth noting that i didn't notice any problems with part quality
[16:25:33] <andypugh> Connor: A standard end-mill can't plunge.
[16:25:51] <Jymmm> ries: If it could move on it's own....
[16:26:08] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's an extremely discouraging message to get
[16:26:36] <taiden-ghettocnc> sitting here chatting with you guys i'm getting 5.2k / 8.2k
[16:26:40] <Connor> Then I've been doing something wrong.. Because I've plunged a few times with one.. :)
[16:26:55] <taiden-ghettocnc> servo / base
[16:27:28] <Connor> Though, mostly in aluminum, wood and plastics..
[16:27:29] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc: what is your servo thread set to?
[16:27:30] <Connor> no steel.
[16:27:40] <taiden-ghettocnc> i dont know how to check
[16:27:45] <taiden-ghettocnc> is that in .hal?
[16:27:58] <JT-Shop> how did you create your configuration?
[16:28:02] <taiden-ghettocnc> with stepconf
[16:28:25] <JT-Shop> iirc it is in the ini file
[16:28:36] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: The message you saw was from rtapi.c. The other message is from motion/contol.c
[16:28:40] <taiden-ghettocnc> Base Period Maximum Jitter: 15,000
[16:28:53] <taiden-ghettocnc> Min Base Period: 23,000 ns
[16:28:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> Max step rate: 43,478 hz
[16:29:05] <taiden-ghettocnc> > from stepconf
[16:29:13] <taiden-ghettocnc> > for this configuration
[16:29:14] <andypugh> The latter seems more serious, as it is being seen in motion.
[16:29:39] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Just check that the numbers in the INI are tha same?
[16:30:19] <JT-Shop> andypugh: doesn't the base period have to be some fraction of the servo period or something like that
[16:30:46] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc: what kind of drives do you have/
[16:30:49] <andypugh> I think that the servo period has to be some multiple of the base period.
[16:31:03] <taiden-ghettocnc> sorry paste bomb incoming
[16:31:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> [EMCMOT]
[16:31:08] <JT-Shop> I knew it was something like that
[16:31:08] <taiden-ghettocnc> EMCMOT = motmod
[16:31:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0
[16:31:13] <taiden-ghettocnc> COMM_WAIT = 0.010
[16:31:15] <taiden-ghettocnc> BASE_PERIOD = 27777
[16:31:16] <taiden-ghettocnc> SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[16:31:21] <Connor> taiden-ghettocnc: use pastebin.ca
[16:31:39] <taiden-ghettocnc> that's all
[16:31:44] <taiden-ghettocnc> no more paste bomb haha
[16:32:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: andypugh Wasn't there a +n value you had to add to compensate for soemthing?
[16:33:50] <taiden-ghettocnc> is there a third party configuration editor?
[16:34:05] <Jymmm> any text editor
[16:34:20] <andypugh> People keep trying to make one, there have been several attempts.
[16:34:22] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc: what kind of drives did you pick?
[16:34:24] <taiden-ghettocnc> text editor doesn't do calculations for you though to make sure you dont overstep
[16:34:32] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's g540 with keling 381 oz in motors
[16:35:25] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: You could try 25,000 just as it is a neater fraction. I have no reason to think it matters if Stepconf doesn't though.
[16:35:55] <taiden-ghettocnc> doesn't lower base period mean faster jitter times though?
[16:35:58] <taiden-ghettocnc> require***
[16:36:21] <taiden-ghettocnc> and if i understand correctly the error is because my jitter times exceed the base period number
[16:36:27] <JT-Shop> if I put 15000 as max jitter in stepconf I get 100,000 base period and 1,000,000 servo period
[16:36:34] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: You tested at 15k, and have a setting of 27777?
[16:36:38] <taiden-ghettocnc> yes
[16:37:14] <taiden-ghettocnc> 100,000 base period makes my machine run at absurdly slow speeds
[16:37:23] <taiden-ghettocnc> or else it locks up with those overrun type errors
[16:37:50] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: As a proper check, go to machine->halmeter then select the "parameters" and put a meter on motion.servo.overruns.
[16:38:06] <JT-Shop> 20000 max jitter gives me the same base and servo period
[16:38:09] <andypugh> Yeah, 100,000 is just stupid.
[16:38:26] <taiden-ghettocnc> what version are you running JT-Shop?
[16:38:56] <taiden-ghettocnc> i'm on 2.5.0
[16:38:59] <Jymmm> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Integrator_Concepts.html#_stepper_systems
[16:39:02] <andypugh> My config here is showing 25,000 over-runs, but that is a Virtual Machine so is hardly a surprise.
[16:40:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: andypugh That was the +n I was talking about iirc (link above)
[16:40:04] <JT-Shop> even though stepconf says it will use 40,000 base for 25,000 max jitter it puts 100,000
[16:40:27] <taiden-ghettocnc> is there any way to forego software stepping
[16:40:38] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Yes.
[16:40:40] <JT-Shop> 5i25 - 7i76
[16:40:41] <Jymmm> mesa card
[16:40:42] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's been the only (and large amount) of trouble that i've been getting
[16:40:47] <JT-Shop> $200
[16:40:54] <taiden-ghettocnc> jesus why didn't i know this before
[16:40:58] <taiden-ghettocnc> i would have bought that ages ago
[16:41:02] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: you have a PCI slot?
[16:41:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> i have a brand new d525mw
[16:41:11] <JT-Shop> he has a 5i25
[16:41:21] <taiden-ghettocnc> and about 3 extra pcs lying around
[16:41:27] <JT-Shop> btw taiden-ghettocnc with a 5i25 you don't have a base period at all
[16:41:40] <JT-Shop> just a servo period
[16:41:41] <taiden-ghettocnc> what in the heck
[16:41:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> oh
[16:41:49] <taiden-ghettocnc> haha
[16:41:51] <taiden-ghettocnc> i got you
[16:41:56] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: you have a mesa card already?
[16:42:02] <taiden-ghettocnc> 5i25 =! d525mw
[16:42:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> my mistake
[16:42:09] <taiden-ghettocnc> i thought that was a typo
[16:42:10] <andypugh> I wondered about mentioning the Mesa cards, but was worried you would say "Bah! LinuxCNC is broken and now youa re suggesting even more hardware to fix it:
[16:42:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> linuxcnc is fine
[16:42:24] <taiden-ghettocnc> i can't find hardware that works
[16:42:28] <taiden-ghettocnc> it seems
[16:42:32] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: yes I remember reading that
[16:42:47] <taiden-ghettocnc> Q: why dont mach3 users run into these problems?
[16:42:51] <taiden-ghettocnc> or do they and I just dont hear about it
[16:42:57] <andypugh> D525MW really ought to work, unless Intel have done something odd to the BIOS firmware in the meantime.
[16:42:57] <JT-Shop> yep
[16:43:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> r00t4rd3d: suggested i update the bios
[16:43:13] <taiden-ghettocnc> so i did
[16:43:14] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: did you update the FW on that mobo?
[16:43:20] <Jymmm> k
[16:43:24] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: I am not sure that Mach tracks such errors.
[16:43:30] <taiden-ghettocnc> i would revert if i could
[16:43:33] <taiden-ghettocnc> idk if i can
[16:43:43] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: if it's an intel mobo you can
[16:43:48] <Jymmm> intel brand
[16:43:51] <taiden-ghettocnc> it is
[16:43:55] <taiden-ghettocnc> it's a vanilla d525me
[16:43:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> mw
[16:44:00] <taiden-ghettocnc> intel
[16:44:15] <taiden-ghettocnc> ok so i guess the question is this
[16:44:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> what would your next step be?
[16:44:23] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: Intel mobo's can even recover if the bios gets fubar'ed during flashing =)
[16:44:23] <taiden-ghettocnc> i have a lot of options at this point
[16:44:33] <taiden-ghettocnc> next step HAHA he's got jokes
[16:44:40] <andypugh> Anyway, for a production machine I would seriously look at the 5i25 / 7i76 combo. You get integrated VFD control and 48 IO bits as well as 8 (I think) 10MHz steppers
[16:45:09] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: Me? I'm not joking.
[16:45:20] <taiden-ghettocnc> no i was talking about me
[16:45:22] <JT-Shop> 6 stepgens iirc andy
[16:45:25] <taiden-ghettocnc> next step
[16:45:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> steppers... jokes...
[16:45:43] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: ah. Inel brand are the only ones I know that have a bios recovery
[16:46:16] <taiden-ghettocnc> does linuxcnc integrate directly with the mesa cards?
[16:46:29] <JT-Shop> yea
[16:46:36] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: It's not easy, as you have no video, but it's doable.
[16:46:49] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc:
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[16:47:20] <taiden-ghettocnc> ok
[16:47:27] <taiden-ghettocnc> that's a good option thanks JT-Shop
[16:47:32] <taiden-ghettocnc> but here's the thing
[16:47:38] <taiden-ghettocnc> i have a board that works for many many people
[16:47:40] <andypugh> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html (and the price of the 5i25 / 7i76 combo is $199 as stated)
[16:47:52] <taiden-ghettocnc> and it's performance seems to be amazing for what i do
[16:47:58] <taiden-ghettocnc> i just got this realtime delay error
[16:48:04] <taiden-ghettocnc> so i can't help but think i have something setup wrong
[16:48:07] <JT-Shop> which board might that be...
[16:48:16] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Did you put a monitor on motion.servo.overruns like I suggested?
[16:48:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> the d525mw motherboard
[16:48:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> sorry i will do that now
[16:48:41] <JT-Shop> I mean the stepper drivers
[16:48:52] <taiden-ghettocnc> i use software steppign with a gecko g540
[16:49:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> ok
[16:49:50] <taiden-ghettocnc> hal meter
[16:49:54] <taiden-ghettocnc> motion.servo.overruns says 0
[16:50:04] <taiden-ghettocnc> and it says select/exit under that
[16:50:22] <taiden-ghettocnc> (i've never used hal meter before so im not sure what's going on here)
[16:50:26] <JT-Shop> I would select other for a driver and put 2000 for step time and step space
[16:50:35] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Hey, can the 7i80db plug in directly to xylotex, gecko 540 and the like?
[16:50:43] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: That's cool. Leave it there and cut some air.
[16:50:49] <taiden-ghettocnc> alright
[16:50:58] <taiden-ghettocnc> i can leave my gecko off for this right?
[16:51:01] <taiden-ghettocnc> since it's just a perfect slave
[16:51:14] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Yes, indeed.
[16:51:16] <JT-Shop> there was some discussion about the g540 a while back and the step time
[16:51:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: as opposed to other gecko drives?
[16:52:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: taiden-ghettocnc : Ah, yes, an excessively long step time with "reset" enabled could leave very little spare time for the syste.
[16:52:13] <JT-Shop> what do you mean
[16:52:44] <JT-Shop> andypugh: the step time is real short but the step space is double
[16:53:00] <taiden-ghettocnc> cutting air and so far no overruns
[16:53:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Was the discussion SPECIFICALLY G540 related, or any/all of step based gecko drives?
[16:53:10] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I can't see that being a cause of realtime errors then.
[16:54:21] <JT-Shop> g540 issues with parallel ports and other issues
[16:54:22] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: I would really not worry about 1 overrun per job, say. Some people report that they have machines that have a latency spike at startup, then run perfectly from then on.
[16:54:32] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the 7i80 looks like it be fun to play with =)
[16:54:34] <taiden-ghettocnc> one of my old boxes did that
[16:54:40] <taiden-ghettocnc> this one was running awesome
[16:54:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> and it gave that error and i freaked haha
[16:54:57] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: It sounds like it still is. I would see if it happens again.
[16:55:07] <PCW_> Jymmm yes the 7I80DB can drive (up to 4) Gecko 540s
[16:55:08] <taiden-ghettocnc> my other machines would send the bit 2" off course whenever that error popped up
[16:55:21] <andypugh> (and keep an eye on the overruns count)
[16:55:21] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Nice, good job =)
[16:55:32] <andypugh> pcw_home: LinuxCNC driver yet?
[16:55:41] <taiden-ghettocnc> so an overrun is literally when the latency exceeds the step time?
[16:55:53] <taiden-ghettocnc> probably the wrong words
[16:55:59] <PCW_> Not yet, but micges has a card so we shall see
[16:56:03] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: No, it is when the latency exceeds the base thread period.
[16:56:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah that's what i meant
[16:56:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: anyone (non linuxcnc) using it yet?
[16:56:31] <taiden-ghettocnc> okay
[16:56:33] <PCW_> Yes
[16:56:39] <taiden-ghettocnc> andypugh: do you over get overruns?
[16:56:42] <taiden-ghettocnc> often*
[16:56:52] <Jymmm> pcw_home: What platform/application if you dont mind me asking.
[16:57:08] <andypugh> But, a long step-time with "reset" enabled can make things worse because the machine stops dead for the "reset" perod.
[16:57:16] <PCW_> Windows, test equipment
[16:57:29] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Not on the actual CNC machines, but all mine run Mesa cards.
[16:57:33] <Jymmm> pcw_home: any real cavets?
[16:57:54] <taiden-ghettocnc> alright
[16:57:57] <taiden-ghettocnc> i guess
[16:57:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> i will just keep cutting
[16:58:03] <taiden-ghettocnc> until something bad actually happens
[16:58:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> ?
[16:58:10] <taiden-ghettocnc> and then worry about it
[16:58:10] <PCW_> cavets?
[16:58:18] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Mainly because a parport is just not enough IO.
[16:58:27] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Undocumented features pop out yet?
[16:58:29] <JT-Shop> seems it don't matter what number you put into stepconf for jitter you get 100,000 base and 1,000,000 servo periods
[16:58:46] <andypugh> PCW_: Caveats are a bit like Guinea Pigs I think. :-)
[16:58:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> JT-Shop: that's weird because as you saw mine was 27777
[16:58:57] <PCW_> No but Im sure some will....
[16:59:13] <Jymmm> PCW_: Any chance of ever seeing an OSX driver?
[16:59:17] <JT-Shop> weird for sure
[16:59:41] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It sounds like Stepconf is borked?
[16:59:51] <JT-Shop> mine is for sure
[17:00:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> JT-Shop: try setting g540 as your driver
[17:00:12] <taiden-ghettocnc> it changes base period on my computer haha
[17:00:32] <PCW_> Jymmm:Its trivial it only does UDP (test program is 10 lines of python on any pretty much any OS)
[17:00:52] <taiden-ghettocnc> i dont get how that works, i would think base period would not change based on what driver you select
[17:01:07] <JT-Shop> same result
[17:01:50] <Jymmm> PCW_: Sweet, well if you ever find yourself with too many laying around, I'd be more than happy to "store" a couple for you =)
[17:01:57] <taiden-ghettocnc> I just got
[17:01:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> BASE_PERIOD = 100000
[17:02:01] <taiden-ghettocnc> SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[17:02:04] <taiden-ghettocnc> when i made a test config
[17:02:18] <andypugh> Me too. Who last touched Stepconf?
[17:02:49] <Jymmm> What if taiden-ghettocnc just did the math and created a manual config? (backing up his existing one first of course)
[17:03:09] <taiden-ghettocnc> that would be fine if someone can point me in the right direction
[17:03:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> i often get lost in the manuals :|
[17:03:37] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: You can just edit the INI file.
[17:03:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah i have bene doing that for things like backlash
[17:03:55] <taiden-ghettocnc> but im not sure what the calculations are for things like base period
[17:04:25] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: a start
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Integrator_Concepts.html#_stepper_systems
[17:04:43] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: but I dont know if there is any benefit in creating a maual config or not.
[17:04:45] <taiden-ghettocnc> OK
[17:04:48] <taiden-ghettocnc> so
[17:05:00] <taiden-ghettocnc> x axis = 10 micro steps, 6 tpi, 3.0 max speed
[17:05:04] <taiden-ghettocnc> y is the same
[17:05:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> z = 10 micro step, 12 tpi, 1.5 max speed
[17:05:14] <JT-Shop> taiden-ghettocnc: you added backlash?
[17:05:15] <taiden-ghettocnc> that gives me the 27777
[17:05:29] <taiden-ghettocnc> without those settings i get 100,000 base period
[17:05:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> just noticed that with stepconf and a test configuration
[17:05:47] <JT-Shop> 27777 is your scale
[17:05:59] <JT-Shop> backlash????
[17:06:14] <taiden-ghettocnc> BASE_PERIOD = 27777
[17:06:16] <taiden-ghettocnc> SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000
[17:06:22] <taiden-ghettocnc> you were getting 100,000 base period, we all were with a new config
[17:06:39] <taiden-ghettocnc> i found that i only get a number different than 100,000 if i set the axis speeds
[17:06:46] <taiden-ghettocnc> and specs
[17:06:56] <JT-Shop> that's a mess then
[17:06:57] <andypugh> Ah, OK. I can see that might factor into the calcs.
[17:07:12] <taiden-ghettocnc> idk i just used stepconf
[17:07:18] <taiden-ghettocnc> but if it's obviously broken i'll do it by hand
[17:07:35] <taiden-ghettocnc> i imagine though
[17:07:41] <taiden-ghettocnc> that stepconf tries to pick the largest base period
[17:07:47] <taiden-ghettocnc> for the step rate you are trying to achieve
[17:08:03] <taiden-ghettocnc> so you dont get overruns
[17:08:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> does that seem reasonable?
[17:08:53] <andypugh> It does, and when I tried for 10in/sec it suddenly picked 24,000
[17:09:02] <taiden-ghettocnc> yeah
[17:09:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> that was why i didn't want to go changing it without using stepconf before
[17:09:23] <taiden-ghettocnc> because last time i did that
[17:09:29] <Jymmm> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/emc2hal.html#sec:motion
[17:09:33] <taiden-ghettocnc> i had to change my max speeds so i didn't get following errors
[17:09:34] <andypugh> I am not sure that is _sensible_ as you will run into step-granularity problems.
[17:09:52] <taiden-ghettocnc> andypugh: now im really confused LOL
[17:10:11] <JT-Shop> yep that is what stepconf is doing is calculating the base period on the max step rate required by any axis
[17:10:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> andypugh: jumping into the heart of cnc controls from zero education on the subject is daunting at the least i must say
[17:10:49] <andypugh> With 100k base period the choices are 1 pulse every 100uS or one every 200uS. That's 10kHz and 5kHz. And nothing in-between is possible.
[17:11:07] <Jymmm> I have to say, that it seemed when manual ini conf was done, there were less headaches.
[17:11:19] <taiden-ghettocnc> Jymmm: i'll take your word for it
[17:11:24] <taiden-ghettocnc> i think i'll go through that later tonight
[17:11:42] <andypugh> So if you want to increase from 5k steps/sec you have to instantly double the motor speed. That's not possible.
[17:12:06] <taiden-ghettocnc> then how do drives run at different rates?
[17:12:09] <Jymmm> taiden-ghettocnc: Well, what I mean is that one had to address those so you had a better understnading of it all and the documentation also reflected that.
[17:12:25] <taiden-ghettocnc> Jymmm: makes sense
[17:12:35] <andypugh> taiden-ghettocnc: Typically you are running at a step every 1000uS, then 900uS or 1100uS.
[17:12:50] <taiden-ghettocnc> so
[17:12:56] <taiden-ghettocnc> it either steps or skips
[17:12:59] <taiden-ghettocnc> every 1000uS
[17:13:10] <taiden-ghettocnc> and that's how you achieve different frequencies of step rate
[17:13:30] <andypugh> That's still 1000 steps/sec or 300rpm without microstepping.
[17:13:53] <taiden-ghettocnc> alright
[17:14:01] <taiden-ghettocnc> i'm going to have to read more abiout this
[17:14:11] <taiden-ghettocnc> for now i attempt to cut more parts without errors
[17:14:14] <andypugh> But it's better to have a choice of 1000 or 1025uS as it's smoother.
[17:14:15] <taiden-ghettocnc> :]
[17:14:43] <andypugh> And the Mesa cards can step at 10Mhz, so you get 300rpm, 300.01rpm, 300.02rpm...
[17:14:55] <tjb1> my stuff finally shipped!
[17:15:06] <andypugh> tjb1: More bent rails?
[17:15:17] <tjb1> No, the drive and steppers
[17:15:22] <tjb1> and some other little stuff
[17:19:17] <taiden-ghettocnc> thanks for the help everyone andypugh JT-Shop Jymmm
[17:19:27] <JT-Shop> np
[17:24:36] <andypugh> Tommieemy Langsam sounded more believable than the recent spate of names like Tommieeminy TommieeminWV, but I still spy a spammer.
[17:30:06] * Tom_itx plops down for the evening
[17:30:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you only make/sell programmers, not any uC boards
[17:31:01] <Tom_itx> i have a u2 board
[17:31:11] <Tom_itx> i started a u4 board but didn't market it
[17:31:18] <Jymmm> link?
[17:31:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USB_Breakout/USB_Breakout_index.php
[17:31:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[17:32:03] <Tom_itx> there's a shot of the U4
[17:32:09] <Tom_itx> atmega32Ux
[17:40:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Vin => 15VDC ?
[17:40:10] <Jymmm> err <
[17:41:02] <Tom_itx> 5
[18:47:32] <jdh> if one wanted to CNC a 7x mini-lathe, what would be a decent size stepper
[18:55:51] <Connor> http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg239/abilander/Mill%20conversion/DSC_2271.jpg
[18:56:06] <Connor> anyone care to guess at the size of the T slot on that alum bar?
[18:56:45] <jdh> I was going to make one of those
[18:57:10] <Connor> Yup. Me too. I'm looking for the proper sized slot cutter for it.
[18:57:16] <jdh> he made the t-nuts, so it doesn't really matter what size they are
[18:57:52] <Connor> I'm thinking of going with 1/4" or 3/8"
[18:57:56] <jdh> pick a pice of stock that fits, any slot cutter tha leaves 1/8" or more shoudl be fine
[18:58:32] <Connor> I don't have the cutter yet.. So, I'm trying to figure that out.
[18:58:52] <jdh> it's harder than it shoudl be to find a smallish one (cheap anyway)
[18:59:43] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/280896933887
[18:59:46] <jdh> I got one of those
[19:00:28] <Connor> http://www.shars.com/products/view/3135/14quot_HSS_TSlot_Cutter
[19:01:21] <jdh> that looks better than mine
[19:01:27] <skorket> Sorry, I just asked on #diycnc, but that's usually low traffic, so I hope you don't mind the repeat here. Do you guys have an opinion on this spindle:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/dc-12-48v-CNC-300W-Spindle-Motor-Mount-bracket-24v-36v-For-Engraving-Carving-/170898644300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ca5a5d4c#ht_3024wt_907
[19:02:32] <Connor> the slot look about the same as on the front of the table ?
[19:03:12] <jdh> can't really tell.
[19:03:31] <jdh> skorket: not much info.
[19:04:43] <skorket> jdh, I may be wrong, but I think they they be similar if not the same to this:
http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=135 ...
[19:06:40] <jdh> looks similar, but different voltage
[19:06:59] <jdh> for teh price, I woudln't expect much
[19:07:00] <archivist> rather a lot of overhang from the spindle bearing, may chatter a bit
[19:08:01] <skorket> the claimed runout is .0015 of an inch... if that's true, that's good enough for my purposes
[19:08:20] <jdh> no load runout maybe
[19:09:39] <archivist> what do you wish to engrave
[19:10:19] <skorket> I want to eventually get a machine that will do PCB routing
[19:11:10] <skorket> I think getting down to 10 mill would be what I eventually want. I'm not sure I can get there within my price range but I'll take what I can get
[19:11:11] <archivist> that runout may be a little large for some pcb tracks
[19:11:53] <skorket> 1-2 mil runout seems pretty good...
[19:12:30] <archivist> 10 thou tracks may come out about 6-8 by the time you add tool error too
[19:13:16] <archivist> depends on the rest of your machine too
[19:14:33] <skorket> yep. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to get an expensive spindle to begin with, just something so I can push the limits of my CNC
[19:16:44] <archivist> you can get er collet holders with parallel shafts and make your own spindle
[19:17:02] <archivist> even cheaper just a bit more work
[19:17:59] <skorket> link?
[19:18:43] <jdh> any idea how a 4 wire DC spindle would be wired?
[19:18:57] <archivist> ebay item 160846106231 is one
[19:19:59] <archivist> skorket, better one probably as easier bearing fit 110466080531
[19:20:23] <PCW_> Big old spindle with a field coil?
[19:20:55] <archivist> series(fast) or parallel
[19:20:56] <jdh> it is big and older. Guess that might explain the other two pins. There are 2 larger, 2 smaller pins on the plug
[19:21:32] <archivist> or parallel with a series resistance on the field
[19:22:00] <jdh> the power supply got thrown out before I heard about it.
[19:22:03] <skorket> archivist, sorry, I'm new to this whole thing...this is just the shaft where you attach one end to the motor and the bit to the other? How do you attach the motor to this? How do you ensure precision?
[19:22:37] <jdh> bearings, bearing mounts, spindle mounts, motor mounts
[19:22:46] <archivist> skorket, you make bearing mounts and belt drive is one way
[19:23:21] <archivist> or some more work
http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
[19:24:31] <archivist> another version simpler
http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[19:27:08] <skorket> so, basically, attach the motor on one end, encase bearings in a housing, put the collet holder inside the bearings encased in the housing and you have a spindle? The idea being the bearings and housing stabalize the collet holder?
[19:29:25] <archivist> something like that here is another
http://www.cnconabudget.com/
[19:30:10] <archivist> that one is selling his but you can see where the collet holder is placed
[19:33:42] <skorket> Yeah, I think I see, thanks. Seems like after getting the motor, the controller, the bearings and the housing I might save on a bit of the price and might get good accuracy but for the time and expense I'm not sure it's worth it right now.
[19:34:19] <archivist> as always its a choice :)
[19:36:32] <archivist> but one has more control over the bearings and their mounting and also you remove the collet chuck mounting on the motor shaft error
[20:31:32] <WillenCMD> Hey everyone
[20:31:56] <WillenCMD> just wondering if anyone was heading to imts?
[21:05:59] <WillenCMD> where is everyone tonight?
[21:20:26] <r00t4rd3d> Final Pass Stepover and Clearance Pass Stepover
[21:20:37] <r00t4rd3d> anyone?
[21:46:29] <WillenCMD> what about it?
[22:12:05] <bill1123> anyone here use 3d studiomax?
[22:12:15] <bill1123> trying to figure out how to add color to renderings
[22:41:47] <r00t4rd3d> Materials
[22:42:26] <WillenCMD> ?
[22:42:32] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N0TGS9w05s
[22:42:39] <r00t4rd3d> for bill1123
[22:43:28] <bill1123> thanks
[22:43:32] <bill1123> found this one too:
http://www.mobilefish.com/tutorials/3dsmax/3dsmax_quickguide_teapot_color_texture.html
