#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-08-09

[01:07:05] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[01:13:58] <uw> HELLO
[02:01:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:29:01] <joe9> when I do "Open File" in Axis GUI, it shows me the directory in "PROGRAM_PREFIX". Is there anything I can do to make it show the current directory of the "current open file"?
[08:29:11] <joe9> I know I can change the directory.
[08:29:38] <joe9> but, just curious, if there is a method to do so automatically.
[08:31:56] <archivist> fix the source
[08:37:48] <cradek> yeah there's not a config option for that
[08:40:33] <archivist> were old P3's ok , I have just tested one with about 14000 jitter and only 260meg of ram!
[08:42:04] <Jymmm> archivist: Yeah, just had to find one without onboard anything
[08:42:52] <Jymmm> Even if you disabled in BIOS, sometimes with jump latency up for some reason. *shrug*
[08:43:02] <Jymmm> s/with/would/
[08:43:37] <archivist> these are old Compaq deskpro, I got 4 about a year ago
[08:45:30] <Jymmm> What I found worked well is having keystick on the controller, then remote the gui to another box
[08:47:43] <Jymmm> Then you can run emc on windows even =) (freak everyone out!)
[08:49:32] <jdh> I haven't had much luck running axis remotely.
[08:50:01] <Jymmm> jdh: use a crossover cable?
[08:50:36] * jdh looks at Jymmm.
[09:05:05] <joe9> archivist: cradek: thanks. let me check the source.
[09:18:15] <cradek> I always had good luck with P3s and still have a dual P3-1000
[09:32:26] <Jymmm> I think I got rid of all of my P3's finally
[09:36:10] <joe9> jdh: i run axis remotely. works fine for me.
[09:36:16] <Jymmm> I need t find a ide/sata transitional 1U PS one o these days
[09:36:27] <Jymmm> s/o/of/
[09:57:59] <pcw_home> Wonder if the latency test can be made more realistic...
[09:58:49] <archivist> yes your email made me wonder a bit
[10:01:07] <pcw_home> I suspect (but do not know) that the problem is that the latency test doesn't actually do anything
[10:01:08] <pcw_home> (that is it does no I/O that might be blocked by shared hardware)
[10:02:43] <archivist> or its timing mechanism is delayed as well so fails to see an error
[10:04:25] <archivist> I was thinking yesterday about documentation for spindle input on parallel port should include leeway for latency errors
[10:08:24] <pcw_home> The situation I was testing is detected by LinuxCNC (real time errors) but these are not reflected at all in the latency test ( at least for the servo thread I will try the base thread today)
[10:11:39] <pcw_home> so all this really means is that the latency test is not a good indicator of actual servo thread jitter performance (a motherboard with ~3 times worse servo thread numbers in the latency test is actually more than 5X better than a n Atom motherboard )
[10:13:33] <cradek> pcw_home: is it someting in your servo thread before motion?
[10:25:09] <pcw_home> its the standard HM2 example file modified for the 5I25 let me take a look
[10:29:12] <pcw_home> addf hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.read servo-thread
[10:29:14] <pcw_home> addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
[10:29:16] <pcw_home> addf motion-controller servo-thread
[10:29:17] <pcw_home> are the first lnes
[10:29:39] <cradek> pretty sure that's right
[10:29:56] <cradek> can you monitor between each of those somehow?
[10:30:06] <awallin> could one do a "loopback" latency test where one IO pin outputs an edge when the thread runs, and another IO pin is used to measure the edge. Would this catch the real-time errors you are seeing? Or is an external oscilloscope or freq-counter required?
[10:30:09] <cradek> maybe one of them sometimes runs a long time
[10:31:47] <pcw_home> My WAG is that I/O access is blocked by video DMA
[10:32:40] <pcw_home> (jitter is noticeable worse when moving windows around)
[10:32:52] <cradek> hm.
[10:33:44] <pcw_home> awallin: Linuxcnc catches the errors but the latency test does not
[10:34:13] <cradek> that's why I'm suspicious of the zillion lines of code that run before that test checks the clock
[10:34:36] <cradek> but if moving windows changes it, you're probably right
[10:36:10] <pcw_home> Unless theres some other shared resource locking causing the trouble (but its motherboard specific)
[10:54:50] <Jymmm> pcw_home: WAG?
[10:56:37] <Jymmm> Wrestling Aquatic Gophers?
[10:56:40] <pcw_home> Wild Ass Guess?
[10:56:44] <archivist> wives and girlfriends
[10:56:45] <Jymmm> ah
[10:57:45] <Jymmm> archivist: may neither of them ever meet =)
[11:17:38] <L84Supper> AMD supports coreboot for all their chipsets since the 7xx, Google posted support for the Intel Sandybridge
[11:18:43] <L84Supper> if you're using a mainboard with a closed BIOS or EFI you're really just counting on luck that it works
[11:23:11] <L84Supper> AMD G series boards with SB8xx + coreboot have jitter ~10K with onchip GPU
[11:23:44] <pcw_home> Latency test jitter? I dont trust that anymore ;-)
[11:25:21] <skunkworks> pcw_home, I suppose you cannot test latency with a plugged in video card?
[11:25:30] <skunkworks> (I still buy pci ones...)
[11:26:03] <pcw_home> Yes I can try that (the Jetway has 2 PCI slots and one PCIE slot)
[11:26:15] <skunkworks> it would be interesting if it is still a shared memory issue - just not noticed as much...
[11:26:32] <pcw_home> Might well be
[11:27:14] <L84Supper> I only use servos, so I don't have any feedback for stepper applications
[11:27:25] <L84Supper> no pun intended
[11:28:04] <pcw_home> I always wondered why people started having troubles above 1 KHz servo thread (with Atom MBs)
[11:28:22] <pcw_home> AMD may have the same issue
[11:29:01] <pcw_home> I'll have to try one of those Hudson Mini ITX MBs
[11:29:01] <skunkworks> well - I have had issues with faster base threads - I thought I narrowed it down to classic ladder in my situation.. (THe K&T has a pcie video card)
[11:29:44] <pcw_home> A 'scope is a pretty hard to fool latency tester
[11:31:59] <pcw_home> 6KHz servo thread is fine on my slow Core Duo (2180?) with sserial (I think 8 -10 KHz is possible without)
[11:32:06] <L84Supper> http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=E350M1 has a coreboot patch
[11:32:12] <L84Supper> if they are still shipping
[11:33:52] <L84Supper> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157228&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA
[11:34:39] <skunkworks> pcw_home, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/32990/focus=33075
[11:46:39] <pcw_home> Yes I remember going through that (also with danimal with a Atom MB) and could not see any reason for it (but the scope does)
[12:07:17] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:12:17] <IchGuckLive> http://www.ebay.de/itm/myTEC-28-03-1-2-70-Hydraulic-Expansion-End-Mill-Holder-HSK-C-32-Taper-/380454178226?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item5894d60db2 Hydraulik tapper for 30USD
[12:14:50] <jdh> what does one do with it?
[12:36:51] <Jymmm> jdh: fast tool changes?
[12:36:53] <faofao> bonjour, je voudrais échanger en français sur linuxcnc avec une machine CNC HEIZ highZ S1000/T. Qui est intéressé?
[12:37:44] <IchGuckLive> faofao: parlevou englais
[12:38:44] <IchGuckLive> Parlez-vous anglais
[12:38:48] <faofao> mon anglais est scolaire, donc minimum
[12:38:49] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:39:08] <IchGuckLive> se petit anglais
[12:39:34] <faofao> ya, very small
[12:39:43] <IchGuckLive> thats ok
[12:39:48] <IchGuckLive> im from Germany
[12:39:56] <IchGuckLive> at the french boarder
[12:40:40] <faofao> is there a chat for french
[12:41:01] <IchGuckLive> no
[12:42:01] <faofao> you know machine heiz (german machine)?
[12:42:08] <IchGuckLive> ce qui est difficile, sans traduction française
[12:42:13] <IchGuckLive> que
[12:42:26] <IchGuckLive> oui
[12:43:01] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: kiwi!!! ;)
[12:43:19] <IchGuckLive> French
[12:43:20] <faofao> I search to define my machine with linuxcnc
[12:43:36] <IchGuckLive> is it a paper cutter
[12:43:50] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: No, .NZ
[12:43:51] <IchGuckLive> as heiz made this
[12:43:55] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: =)
[12:43:55] <faofao> je cherche à configurer ma machine sous linuxcnc
[12:44:29] <IchGuckLive> un port parallèle
[12:44:42] <faofao> oui
[12:44:44] <IchGuckLive> qui pilote
[12:45:17] <IchGuckLive> Je pense que moteur pas à pas
[12:45:22] <faofao> faiseuse pour usiner le bois et aussi aluminium
[12:45:42] <faofao> oui moteur pap nanotec
[12:45:57] <IchGuckLive> Nema23
[12:46:23] <IchGuckLive> http://de.nanotec.com/schrittmotoren.html
[12:47:11] <IchGuckLive> breakoutboard sorcière
[12:47:47] <IchGuckLive> onne chine
[12:47:55] <IchGuckLive> Bonne
[12:48:17] <faofao> ça veut dire quoi cette phrase "breakoutboard sorcière"
[12:48:45] <IchGuckLive> The parport PCB for connecting the Stepper drivers
[12:49:01] <faofao> comprends pas "onne chine" ni "bonne"
[12:49:07] <alex4nder> haha
[12:49:21] <IchGuckLive> Je parle aussi le français rien de bon
[12:49:24] <awallin> hm, nokia selling qt...
[12:49:51] <jdh> sold
[12:50:19] <IchGuckLive> faofao: querry
[12:50:19] <faofao> on s'égare, revenons à linuxcnc
[12:50:58] <IchGuckLive> pas que nous sommes tous le droit
[12:51:10] <faofao> que veut dire querry
[12:51:28] <IchGuckLive> faofao: we need to know your mashine configuration bevor we can help you #
[12:52:20] <IchGuckLive> faofao: there is another chat window open that i connected you private
[12:52:32] <alex4nder> en anglais ou GTFO
[12:52:37] <faofao> CNC -highZ S1000/T de cnc Technik/HEIZ
[12:53:32] <faofao> motorisation 4 moteurs de chez Nanotec pap avec 1600 pas/rotation
[12:53:44] <IchGuckLive> oui
[12:53:50] <faofao> 2moteurs sur l'axe X
[12:54:08] <IchGuckLive> et où est le problème
[12:55:11] <faofao> vous me demandez la config de ma machine, alors je commence
[12:55:16] <IchGuckLive> Hal pin ?
[12:56:27] <IchGuckLive> faofao: pastebin the Hal Config please
[12:56:35] <faofao> hal pin? je n'en suis pas là
[12:56:45] <faofao> je fais comment?
[12:57:22] <IchGuckLive> then see the iintegrator manual
[12:57:56] <IchGuckLive> sans que la configuration est pour le disque dur
[12:58:39] <faofao> j'ai l'impression de vraiment débuter, aussi je reviendrai quand je saurai mieux me débrouiller avec le tchat et linuxcnc, bye...
[12:59:30] <IchGuckLive> encore bonne soirée
[12:59:42] <faofao> je vais aller faire un tour sur le site de nanotec que vous m'avez envoyé, thanks
[12:59:54] <IchGuckLive> NP
[13:00:05] <IchGuckLive> You are Wellcom
[13:00:32] <IchGuckLive> B) accueil
[13:01:29] <IchGuckLive> Vous pouvez passer un signal en parallèle sur deux broches du port
[13:02:20] <IchGuckLive> ok folks French sesssion completed lets start english
[13:02:27] <IchGuckLive> B) O.O
[13:02:47] <IchGuckLive> i can see the French boarder from my window
[13:03:45] <IchGuckLive> Problem wars beside the English how to get 2 Steppers for the X axis on one mashine
[13:04:48] <IchGuckLive> 8025 is this alu profile ?
[13:04:56] <IchGuckLive> in the USA
[13:05:08] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: When you see the whites of their eyes... FIRE!
[13:05:21] <Jymmm> 80-20.net
[13:05:27] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[13:05:30] <syyl> i would start firing even before, Jymmm
[13:05:36] <syyl> just to be sure
[13:05:52] <Jymmm> syyl: Nah, gott give em a sporting chance.
[13:05:57] <syyl> nope
[13:06:10] <syyl> just a matter of firepower ;)
[13:06:12] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: no ww beond this adress
[13:06:32] <Jymmm> It's just deer hunting... give the deer a rifle too! make it a challenge =)
[13:06:46] <syyl> ok, i will take an howitzer..
[13:07:01] <IchGuckLive> syyl: there is a small town in texas <100 peopöle that claim more firerpower then Luxemburg
[13:07:05] <Jymmm> http://www.8020.net/
[13:07:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:18:13] <ssi> how much firepower does luxembourg have?
[13:18:40] <syyl> not enough?
[13:19:24] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[13:19:36] <ssi> clearly ;)
[13:21:08] <ssi> man I want a laser really bad... I'm starting to get the itch to spend money
[13:21:15] <ssi> but I know it's going to be a huge expenditure and I'll probably regret it :P
[13:22:14] <IchGuckLive> lasercutter ß
[13:22:18] <IchGuckLive> ??
[13:22:24] <ssi> yeah
[13:22:27] <ssi> like to do 60 or 80W
[13:22:29] <IchGuckLive> or laser engrave
[13:22:39] <ssi> well what most folks call an "engraver"
[13:22:43] <ssi> but I want to cut thin plywood and acrylic
[13:22:59] <ssi> from what I've read, 60W will cut 3/4 acrylic reasonably well
[13:23:02] <IchGuckLive> why not start with a waterjet
[13:23:09] <ssi> "start" with a waterjet
[13:23:10] <ssi> heh
[13:23:18] <ssi> waterjet is probably more difficult to diy
[13:23:37] <IchGuckLive> it is proven and relyable technik
[13:24:27] <ssi> has anyone done a cheap homebuilt waterjet?
[13:24:30] <ssi> I've never seen one
[13:24:38] <IchGuckLive> ok im off for today the USA leads only on the USA gold Chart not in the worldchart china claims more glden USA counts all medels
[13:24:46] <ssi> need high pressure pump and expensive nozzle and all kinds of crap
[13:24:54] <ssi> whereas a 60W lasertube can be had for $400
[13:25:14] <IchGuckLive> ok y<ou try we look
[13:25:32] <IchGuckLive> and learn from your faulths
[13:26:10] <IchGuckLive> lasertube cooling is a big issue
[13:26:24] <ssi> for a low power laser it's a pretty easily solved issue
[13:26:50] <ssi> for 60W you can get away with a small water pump... bigger lasers, use a chiller. Chillers aren't all that expensive
[13:26:54] <ssi> not compared to 25kpsi water pumps :P
[13:28:50] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[13:42:51] <Jymmm> If you are 0ging to make your own CO2 laser, don't do anything less than 100Watts
[13:43:22] <Jymmm> or the max your 120VAC outlet can handle =)
[13:44:44] <Jymmm> and you'll need two 15A+ circuits... one for the laser, another for the pump/chiller and blower
[13:45:02] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmmm
[13:45:20] <Loetmichel> the 80W co2 tube a friebn had had not sooo much power input.
[13:46:06] <Loetmichel> laser. servos, fans, PC, cooling, all on one 230V 16A outlet, and no problems with overload whatever.
[13:46:11] <Loetmichel> friend
[13:54:10] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 220 np, I said 120VAC =)
[13:54:17] <Loetmichel> i see
[13:54:27] <Loetmichel> you and your toy supply ;)
[13:55:02] <Jymmm> 120@15A == 1800W, 220@15A == 3300W
[13:55:15] <Loetmichel> 230/16
[13:55:20] <Loetmichel> =3650
[13:55:23] <Loetmichel> W
[13:55:25] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[13:55:26] <Jymmm> whatever
[13:56:50] <Jymmm> and its probably not a good thing to have a blow motor on the same circuit as the laser
[14:03:36] <cpresser> Jymmm: why not?
[14:03:41] <cpresser> i use the same setup
[14:05:58] <Jymmm> inductive motor + electronics not a good thing.
[14:06:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmm?
[14:06:37] <Loetmichel> why that?
[14:06:45] <Jymmm> brown outs
[14:06:47] <cpresser> the motor has a cap, and the electronics use switchin mode PSUs
[14:06:54] <Loetmichel> are your electronics not capable of handling spikes?
[14:08:21] <Jymmm> brown outs can create "defects" in engraving
[14:09:02] <archivist> only if your psu's are poor
[14:12:25] <Loetmichel> archivist: i second that
[14:14:12] * cpresser will monitor DC ripple and see for himself
[14:15:51] <ssi> I don't run anything on 120v if I can help it :P
[15:53:37] <alex4nder> fuck
[15:53:39] <alex4nder> er
[15:53:53] <alex4nder> it's too damn hot.
[15:54:16] <Tom_itx> how hot is too hot?
[15:55:06] <alex4nder> 84 degrees.
[15:55:13] <alex4nder> I live in central california for a reason.
[15:55:26] <Tom_itx> it's only Temp: 93.0 F (33.9 C) here atm
[15:55:35] <alex4nder> haha
[15:55:43] <Tom_itx> just finished a bike ride downtown and back
[15:56:02] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:56:10] <alex4nder> night
[16:06:03] <JT-Shop> cooled off here... it's only 95F
[16:06:42] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did you see my touch probe youtube?
[16:07:24] <JT-Shop> no
[16:07:28] <micges> I don't know what is better, here is middle of summer and we have 57F :|
[16:07:41] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGuV86Su430&feature=youtu.be
[16:08:06] <Tom_itx> that a part i found in my drawer we used to run on the little Okuma Kadet
[16:08:12] <Tom_itx> stainless
[16:13:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how much play is there in your touch probe?
[16:15:33] <skunkworks> what do you mean by play?
[16:36:31] <archivist> PCW, I just looked at the timediff hal comp that latency test uses, seems to only check jitter from the last cycle so a slow drift wont be noticed
[16:37:55] <archivist> possibly..... if Im reading it right
[16:44:37] <PCW> archivist: It might be interesting to hack some I/O code or memory block transfer into the latency test to see if it "sees" the real jitter
[16:46:51] <archivist> it compares this cycle with the last so a number of positive changes below the current maximum positive may not be seen so not updating jitter
[16:51:51] <PCW> Ahh
[16:52:21] <archivist> are you reading the c too :)
[16:52:50] <PCW> not at the moment
[16:53:00] <archivist> timedelta.c line 171 on
[16:53:14] <archivist> well on the old copy here
[16:54:44] <archivist> I would call the current code a cycle to cycle jitter test not peak jitter test
[17:23:57] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, did you indicate it after the probe?
[17:33:34] <Tom_itx> i really need to get a proper probe
[17:33:40] <Tom_itx> but i wanted to try it out
[17:35:33] <JT-Shop> how well do you think it measures?
[17:36:25] <Tom_itx> i'm not real pleased with the ball bearings / dowel pins as contact surfaces
[17:36:40] <Tom_itx> they need to be plated or use something different
[17:36:59] <Tom_itx> i had quite a bit of varying resistance when i measured it with the meter
[17:37:04] <JT-Shop> too much resistance?
[17:37:18] <Tom_itx> yeah it was pretty high
[17:37:25] <JT-Shop> maybe more spring pressure?
[17:37:32] <Tom_itx> i considered that
[17:37:38] <Tom_itx> i have more springs or i can wind another one
[17:38:10] <Tom_itx> i've never wound a push spring, just pull but it's probably the same idea
[17:38:49] <JT-Shop> yea just need space between each coil
[17:38:56] <Tom_itx> it's an experiment that could have had better results
[17:39:23] <JT-Shop> what voltage is going through the pin ball circuit?
[17:39:35] <Tom_itx> 5v
[17:39:50] <Tom_itx> well, ground completes the path
[17:40:04] <Tom_itx> but open is an open 7i43 pin
[17:40:06] <JT-Shop> I wonder if a higher voltage would work better
[17:40:18] <Tom_itx> not for very long :)
[17:40:44] <Tom_itx> i could add a debounce line to it probably too
[17:40:44] <JT-Shop> well with an isolation circuit....
[17:40:50] <Tom_itx> that helped the limit switches alot
[17:41:15] <JT-Shop> time to fetch some chow from town before the cocina closes
[17:41:30] <Tom_itx> part of the problem is the accuracy i was able to make the center piece that holds the 3 dowel pins
[17:41:46] <Tom_itx> if i had a 4th axis i could have gotten them alot closer
[17:43:12] <Tom_itx> mine's in the oven
[17:52:03] <Jymmm> Maybe use inductance instead of resistance
[17:53:28] <Jymmm> probe has a magnet on one end, and surrounded by coil(s), then just measure the change in iductance caused by the movemnt of the magnetic field.
[17:53:51] <Jymmm> no contact to be plared
[17:54:22] <Jymmm> plated
[17:56:42] <Jymmm> though I don't know if ferrious metals being probed could be shielded in just jogging the probe in place
[17:56:55] <Jymmm> (false positives)
[18:00:43] <jdh> we should outlaw alcohol.
[18:01:08] <jdh> [wrong chan]
[18:33:25] <skunkworks__> yay - finally 14mbs. (was getting by with 1)
[19:48:06] <jdh> so I bought this chunk of steel from amazon for $57. They delivered an empty box, gave me a refund. Now I try to re-order and it is $141.
[19:49:19] <Tom_itx> inflation
[19:52:29] <jp1> Sure there wasnt transparent aluminum in the box
[19:57:57] <jdh> I didn't actually open the box.
[19:58:45] <L84Supper> maybe it's: empty box of steel $57, box with steel $141
[20:22:17] <ssi> lol
[20:22:52] <ReadError> awwwww yea
[20:22:59] <ReadError> i need to update to 2.5.1 i think
[20:23:08] <ReadError> anything noteworthy vs 2.5.0 ?
[20:24:01] <Tom_itx> i did but didn't read the changelog
[20:32:32] <jdh> the axis jog with the combo box open is listed
[20:39:00] <ReadError> hmmm
[20:39:21] <ReadError> i found a nice pendant from china somewhere
[20:39:25] <ReadError> it was like 70$
[20:39:32] <ReadError> same thing they sell here in the states for 150
[20:40:17] <ssi> link?
[20:41:51] <ReadError> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/electronic-handwheel-cnc-router-hand-wheel-pulse-encoder-for-cnc-fanuc-gsk-knd.html
[20:42:45] <ssi> hm interesting
[20:43:01] <ssi> - 100 times per revolution slightly cracking point,100 pulses per revolution output, holding the handle of the panel and all-metal high-grade design.
[20:44:04] <ReadError> http://www.goodluckbuy.com/cnc-3-axis-usb-handwheel-mpg-pendant-pulse-generato-for-mach-3-engraving-router-machine.html
[20:44:47] <ssi> oo fancy
[20:45:21] <ssi> wireless too, eh
[20:48:32] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't trust an estop button to a wireless device
[21:04:12] <L84Supper> not the most reassuring name from a westerners perspective goodluckbuy.com
[21:04:44] <ReadError> ive used em several times w/o issue
[22:26:36] <uw> yea...
[22:26:44] <uw> goodruckbry