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[01:20:39] <r00t4rd3d> roar i fixored it. now i can run microcarve in ubuntu :)
[01:21:21] <r00t4rd3d> it only took me hour and half to compile wine from scratch.
[02:34:12] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:15:35] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:07:24] <Guest65065> hi all
[06:07:54] <Guest65065> I have a question about closed loops with steppers
[06:15:48] <micges> ask it
[06:16:25] <jthornton> couldn't stand it could you micges
[06:17:11] <micges> ?
[06:18:17] <jthornton> the wait for the question :-)
[06:18:32] <archivist> it's a secret!
[06:18:38] <micges> heh
[06:19:52] <theforken> Sorry I've disconnected :-)
[06:20:00] <theforken> The question is :-)
[06:20:39] <jthornton> the answer is no
[06:20:53] <micges> I knew it, he forgot :)
[06:21:03] <theforken> I've built a board which reads from a quad encoder, counts the steps and writes it to a 8Digit 7Segment display
[06:21:20] <theforken> it uses an attiny45
[06:22:01] <theforken> now i'd like to put this device in a closed loop for each of my stepper
[06:23:02] <theforken> I couldn't find any "direction" on the net on where to start (I just have 3 Par ports, no mesa, pico etc.)
[06:23:11] <jthornton> it's not practical for a stepper
[06:23:39] <jthornton> if a stepper is falling behind in steps it is all ready overloaded and can not go any faster
[06:23:45] <theforken> even to detect a stall?
[06:24:04] <jthornton> sure you might do that
[06:24:25] <jthornton> have you searched the wiki for this?
[06:26:20] <theforken> My original idea was to store the absolute position of the axis but in the wiki there are some examples to connect the Encoder channels A/B/I directly to the par port
[06:26:46] <theforken> store in the attiny and send it to linuxcnc
[06:28:12] <jthornton> if you can get the steps and send that back to axis.N.motor-pos-fb it might work
[06:28:54] <theforken> by "steps" you mean the absolute position in steps?
[06:29:19] <jthornton> I've hyjacked my Z axis for my THC and lie to linuxcnc about the Z pos
[06:29:20] <jthornton> yes
[06:30:02] <theforken> ok, half of the problem solved :-)
[06:31:03] <jthornton> axis.N.motor-pos-cmd and axis.N.motor-pos-fb must match within following error or you get a following error for the axis
[06:32:08] <theforken> second part is how do I send the data from attiny to emc?
[06:33:20] <jthornton> to an encoder input set to counter
[06:34:09] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html
[06:36:40] <theforken> But this is not an absolute position feedback
[06:37:13] <theforken> it's a software quad encoder counter
[06:38:01] <theforken> no wait
[06:38:01] <jthornton> yea, I'm wrong about the counter part you will need to hook up as an encoder
[06:38:12] <jthornton> so will count down and up
[06:40:10] <theforken> but this way I'm bypassing the attiny, just connecting the encoder to the parport, but again it's detecting absolute positions
[06:40:26] <theforken> it's not detecting sorry
[06:40:57] <theforken> I was searching for something like :
[06:41:10] <theforken> emc -> attiny : where are you?
[06:41:31] <theforken> attiny -> emc : 52.234 mm
[06:42:40] <jthornton> same difference but you tell emc how many steps without the conversion to units
[06:42:44] <archivist> write a comp that does that
[06:45:20] <theforken> I don't think I have the skills/time to write a new comp.....
[06:47:36] <jthornton> it's pretty easy to write a comp if you insist on doing it the hard way
[06:54:32] <theforken> and which is the hard way?
[06:55:00] <jthornton> your way
[06:55:13] <theforken> you mean hardware way?
[06:55:35] <jthornton> no, converting steps to mm
[06:56:33] <jthornton> just thinking you will have to convert encoder pulses to steps to match axis.N.motor-pos-cmd
[06:56:38] <theforken> the idea wasn't to convert steps to mm, it's just usefull to write the value to the display
[06:58:16] <theforken> attiny -> emc : 128540 steps from 0 it's ok to me.
[06:58:55] <jthornton> somehow you will have to sync the steps to when you home the axis
[07:00:00] <jthornton> actually I just checked and if they both start at 0 on power up that should work
[07:00:11] <theforken> that's the point I don't want to home the axes anymore, just store the position in the attiny (battery backup) and ask last position when emc stats
[07:01:31] <jthornton> I was wrong about axis.N.motor-pos-cmd it is in machine units
[07:03:46] <jthornton> that complicates it above my pay scale
[07:04:13] <theforken> :-)
[07:04:54] <jthornton> that should have been your lead in statement to save me a bunch of typing lol
[07:05:04] <archivist> you still need to home, you never know how the motors are on start
[07:05:26] <theforken> how much do you earn? sorry I'm not English
[07:05:46] <archivist> we are volunteers a big fat 0
[07:05:57] <jthornton> that was a funny way to say I don't have a clue how to do it
[07:05:59] <theforken> :-)
[07:06:14] <jthornton> I'll double your salary archivist
[07:06:34] <archivist> first I need a salary
[07:06:57] <jthornton> hmmm 2 * 0 = still equalls 0
[07:07:03] <theforken> If my project works I could donate it to the community :-)
[07:07:51] <jthornton> I suspect you would have extremely limited amount of people that would go to that trouble not to home a machine
[07:07:52] <theforken> archist : what do you mean whith "you never know HOW the motors are on start"?
[07:08:06] <theforken> :-)
[07:10:06] <anonimas1> was there a problem to use shared home and limit switches?
[07:10:22] <anonimas1> um, nvm, they are soft stops then. so it wouldnt work well.
[07:13:36] <theforken> The original idea was to dynamically compensate the axis by monitoring the requested position and the actual position
[07:13:51] <theforken> http://www.motion-designs.com/images/DTrends_Nov_2010.pdf
[07:15:00] <micges> theforken: it's possible but not easy with pnly parports
[07:16:10] <theforken> Yes I'm starting to realize that :-)
[07:16:22] <micges> if atmega have position, then you must send it to pc, let say spi into parport
[07:16:37] <micges> then create module to decode spi and get position
[07:17:23] <theforken> ok
[07:17:54] <theforken> That sounds feasable
[07:18:33] <theforken> than interact with axis.N.motor-pos-fb?
[07:19:23] <micges> yes
[07:20:12] <theforken> and will linuxcnc compensate the difference between pos-fb amd pos-cmd?
[07:20:50] <micges> no
[07:20:59] <theforken> :-(
[07:21:04] <micges> it will detect following error
[07:23:39] <theforken> ok thank a lot everybody
[07:24:03] <micges> hold on
[07:24:37] <micges> if you want to compensate you must run stepgen in velocity mode
[07:25:05] <theforken> Yes, I'm reading this
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=38&id=3916
[07:25:25] <micges> then you must use pid component on velocity from axis.n.vel-cmd
[07:25:58] <micges> and as a feedback you must use ddt from your spi comp position
[07:27:29] <theforken> ddt?
[07:28:07] <micges> makes velocity from position changes
[07:29:16] <theforken> derivate?
[07:29:35] <theforken> sorry derivative..
[07:29:50] <micges> yes
[07:30:58] <theforken> ok thanks a lot now I have an idea on where to start (and where to go :-) I'll start to let the attiny talk to the parport.
[07:37:18] <archivist> just use servos!
[07:43:13] <chron0> might be a bit offtopic but can anyone recommend ball bearings for a diy spindle with an 8mm collet chuck?
[07:44:07] <chron0> currently I am trying to build a "ghetto spindle" (
https://apollo.open-resource.org/mission:resources:picocnc)
[07:45:51] <chron0> using a rc-model brushless outrunner motor and right now I want to buy the three main bearings for the block
[07:46:23] <theforken> Yes, off course but I'll have to spend 1K€ to buy 3axis servo+driver+psu...
[07:49:06] <archivist> theforken, home brew the drivers as others have done
[07:49:17] <jdh> vs. buying encoders and untold hours only to be disappointed, much like your date with the hot chick in high schol.
[07:51:09] <theforken> Can you give me some links to build a servo driver?
[07:51:31] <archivist> chron0, use shielded not sealed for lowere friction
[07:53:30] <chron0> archivist: good tip, thanks. I was thinking of getting two angular contact ball bearings right above the collet chuck to make sure that all forces fox x/y and z movements can be handled by the bearing
[07:53:32] <archivist> chron0, like this one
http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[07:53:59] <jthornton> theforken, have you read this?
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Steppers_With_Encoders
[07:54:43] <chron0> I am not sure if I should just give a "default" skf pair a go or if I shouold be looking for ceramic ones. What about maintenance? Sorry for these simple questions, but I am more of an IT than a mech guy so I still have a lot to catch up with :)
[07:55:41] <archivist> chron0, well if using the cheap er_whatever, I would just use cheap bearings and replace now and again
[07:56:16] <archivist> all depends on accuracy and lifetime
[07:56:49] <chron0> archivist: thnaks for the advice, pity that raynerd didn't elaborate on sources and details of the motor and the chuck, but it looks like this one is from ctc-tools china :)
[07:58:17] <archivist> I have some chinese collet chucks, accuracy is..."near enough"
[07:58:36] <theforken> jthornton: this is one of the starting pages I've found but at the end of the page he says he's posting .ini and .hal but I can't find the files....
[08:00:48] <archivist> hmm no revision 2 for that article
[08:01:39] <theforken> which means?
[08:02:32] <archivist> cannot tell where/if it was ever published
[08:03:17] <theforken> :-(
[08:06:31] <archivist> !seen jlmjvm
[08:06:32] <the_wench> last seen in 2010-06-21 00:33:58GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying Quit: Ex-Chat
[08:06:58] <archivist> not seen that user in a while
[09:01:08] <theforken> quit
[09:01:12] <theforken> help
[09:01:17] <theforken> mavacc
[09:37:51] <r00t4rd3d> gun
[09:37:53] <r00t4rd3d> mouth
[09:37:55] <r00t4rd3d> trigger
[09:40:55] <Jymmm> FIRE!
[10:12:03] <r00t4rd3d> you wanna blow my brains out?
[10:12:31] <jdh> too late.
[10:13:34] <r00t4rd3d> ladies and gentleman, for tonights performance, JDH!
[10:47:28] <Loetmichel> sooo, next 50 engravings done... 10 more, then drilling times 60... then i have not to work at home until the next charge Computers from dell is delivered...
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13441
[10:51:02] <Loetmichel> the only thing that puzzles me: the selfmade "3 sided pyramid" engraver is better then the bought one... lives longer, makes less burr and is thinner at the top ?!? ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13444
[12:04:24] <r00t4rd3d> wtf u engraving those for?
[12:04:39] <Tom_itx> to fix a problem
[12:04:50] <Tom_itx> adding audio plugs to the backplate
[12:05:12] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[12:08:45] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:09:13] <IchGuckLive> awallin: ? on ocl
[12:11:42] <mcenter> I am not seeing the pins on my 7i77, after applying field power.
[12:13:18] <IchGuckLive> in pncconf
[12:14:03] <jdh> in halmeter?
[12:14:25] <mcenter> no, from "halcmd show all" after starting linuxcnc.
[12:14:49] <jdh> do they show up in dmesg?
[12:15:11] <mcenter> no, they do not show up in dmesg.
[12:17:14] <jdh> you flashed the 7i77 firmware?
[12:17:16] <jthornton> do you have the jumpers set correctly mcenter
[12:19:05] <mcenter> For the 7i77, all jumpers are in default position, and yellow LED is on
[12:19:53] <jthornton> check against this page
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[12:19:54] <mcenter> 24V at TB2-1, GND at TB2-8
[12:25:46] <mcenter> 7i77 W5 is correct. I am going to check 5i25 W2. Be back shortly.
[12:25:57] <jthornton> ok
[12:27:29] <Tom_itx> you're getting quite a few tutorials
[12:27:53] <jthornton> me?
[12:28:02] <Tom_itx> yeah
[12:28:12] <Tom_itx> you should make one common link to them though
[12:28:21] <jthornton> there is
[12:28:28] <jthornton> gnipsel dot com
[12:28:29] <Tom_itx> so i see
[12:28:34] <Tom_itx> hah
[12:40:08] * Jymmm finally found a clean agent 1A10BC rated fire extinguisher!
[12:48:25] * jthornton finally found the pen I lost a couple of years ago... now I'm tired and think a nap is in order
[12:49:33] * Jymmm ponders what what jthornton would do if he had to locate a grain of sand?
[12:58:35] <mcenter> Thanks JT. 7i77 shows up. I was able to verify encoder with halmeter. However, I immediately get a follow error when I turn the pwr on.
[13:05:26] <pcw_home> On a servo system you should expect that for about 2 1/2 reasons
[13:05:28] <pcw_home> 1. You may have feedback backwards so the motor immediately runs away
[13:05:29] <pcw_home> 2. The system is not tuned so any motion may cause a following error
[13:05:31] <pcw_home> 2A, the following error needs to be made larger for initial tuning
[13:10:36] <Jymmm> What snake venom does to blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WvnjCkLbvY&feature=player_embedded
[13:18:13] <mcenter> I wasn't expecting much when I turned the pwr on. Is there a tutorial on Servo tuning?
[13:18:40] <mcenter> I understand the PID concepts. I was just wondering how to ring the system.
[13:18:56] <mcenter> And use halscope.
[13:20:47] <cradek> I like to use rapid moves that are long enough to get up to cruise speed
[13:21:12] <cradek> back and forth, with a nice pause to make it all sane, so you can trigger
[13:21:27] <cradek> just programming it in gcode is the easy way to go
[13:22:33] <mcenter> ok. and connect halscope to position and demand pins?
[13:22:59] <cradek> I like to watch velocity and pid error
[13:23:06] <cradek> don't get much out of watching position command
[13:23:25] <cradek> it's easy to trigger on rising velocity (like set the trigger to half of your maxvel)
[13:38:57] <gmagno> just to be sure, it is fine the motors (in my case, nema 17) to get hot, right?
[13:40:41] <archivist> yup. use them as hand warmers
[13:41:21] <gmagno> archivist, I'm serious, I'm worried about the current settings on the driver board. I dont want to burn the motors :-(
[13:41:35] <skunkworks> archivist, is serious
[13:41:52] <gmagno> hmm, nice
[13:42:08] <skunkworks> you would have to look at the specs of the stepping motors - but they could get hot enough that you cannot keep your hand on them
[13:42:16] <gmagno> becasue if I use the 25% current settings, the motors won't get hot at all. But the z axis wont work properly
[13:42:36] <archivist> the running temp can be to hot to keep your hand on and be ok
[13:43:13] <gmagno> ok, I'm not worried anymore :D
[13:43:22] <delkin> yep, good to know
[13:43:47] <archivist> my x and y are only warmish because the heatsink effect of the mountings, B is uncomfortable
[13:44:20] <gmagno> btw, these asre 1.68A motors. The max driver current is 3A, which means, setting current to 50% is below that max motor current, which should be fine
[13:44:23] <JT-Shop> stepper motors run kinda hot and sit still and get hotter
[13:44:26] <delkin> Do you put any sort of fat substance in the threaded rods?
[13:45:09] <archivist> which threaded rods, do you mean lubricating grease or oil
[13:45:42] <delkin> yes, oil or lubricant
[13:46:00] <archivist> but yes anyway
[13:47:31] <archivist> although some plastic nuts on steel rod may need special lubrication as plastic is a bit "different"
[13:48:16] <gmagno> do you recommend those standard Mx threaded rods? Or do you think it's critical to use precision rods?
[13:48:30] <delkin> I am concerned about this topic cause in our cnc we are not using those expensive threaded rods that can be used with sphere nuts an so on. We are using cheap zinc threaded rods, and I realized that after some time the nuts and the rods lose the thread and become flat...
[13:49:16] <delkin> I was wondering if lubricating it would minimize this problem
[13:52:30] <mcenter> oil + wood chips = bad, oil + steel chips = ok , oil + grinding grit = bad
[14:00:16] <[PT]gmagno> another thing I find weird is the noise these motors make. It looks like tv static... is this ok? The noise is louder if I increase the current settings of the board
[14:08:53] <skunkworks> that is the current limit probably.
[14:09:15] <skunkworks> cycle by cycle current cut off
[14:24:06] <andypugh> I am having trouble compiling the ipv4/netfilter bit of the kernel. I wonder what it does, and whether it would be easier just to not compile it? There is a Kconfig file in that folder, can I do something in there?
[14:25:17] <andypugh> And having said that, it just scooted straight through :-)
[14:25:39] <andypugh> (I commented out a line in the Makefile)
[14:34:24] <Tuipveus> andypugh: why compiling?
[14:34:37] <andypugh> Masochism?
[14:35:19] <andypugh> The Vortex86 chip isn't particularly well supported by the normal LinuxCNC kernel.
[14:35:21] <Tuipveus> some time ago I had to compile kernel to get TARPIT-module to iptables
[14:35:58] <Tuipveus> a bit later on, it was added to xtables-addons...
[14:36:23] <Tuipveus> but now I think that Debian xtables-addons wont work for new kernels anymore... so I am sticking with old kernel
[15:09:36] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7af_1342634355
[15:09:38] <r00t4rd3d> holy crap!
[15:11:39] <Connor> r00t4rd3d: Any idea when that was /
[15:11:40] <Connor> ?
[15:11:47] <andypugh> Well, they claim that they were Taliban, and there is nobody left with a different opinion.
[15:12:13] <andypugh> (Not going to watch it, thanks)
[15:12:53] <archivist> nylon is not nice to mill
http://gears.archivist.info/gears/fan_gears.html
[15:13:41] <andypugh> Would delrin be nicer?
[15:14:28] <syyl> delrin machines a lot better than nylon
[15:14:53] <syyl> nylon is just a mess :D
[15:15:07] <archivist> dont have any in stock at the moment :(
[15:16:01] <syyl> :(
[15:16:11] <andypugh> Did you make the worm too?
[15:16:40] <archivist> no, but have made similar in the past
[15:17:24] <archivist> deep worms seemed popular one time
[15:19:02] <Diony> Hi all
[15:19:10] <archivist> I made a full length support when I made
http://gears.archivist.info/gears/p1010058_500.jpg (bottom)
[15:21:02] <Euro_> Does anyone here run LinuxCNC on a single board PC?
[15:23:47] <r00t4rd3d> like a itx ?
[15:24:06] <r00t4rd3d> many of us use the intel atom d525
[15:24:47] <Euro_> Yeah, itx
[15:25:02] <Euro_> Wasn't sure whether the onboard video chipset
[15:25:06] <Euro_> would be a problem
[15:28:22] <Connor> Nope. d525 is very nice board to use. I use it. If your going to use parport, pick up yup a PCI parport to go with it just to be safe. Cheaper to replace the PCI card than the whole board if you blow something on the parport.
[15:29:30] <andypugh> Though arguable the boards are cheap enough not to worry too much
[15:30:15] <Euro_> Sounds like a good idea, not sure whether we'll use parallel going forward though
[15:30:57] <Euro_> have you added any additional cooling to your boards?
[15:31:03] <andypugh> Pico PPMC and the Mesa 7i43 connect to the parallel port, and are proper interfaces.
[15:31:45] <andypugh> No, my closely-related D510 and DN2800 run totally passively cooled with SSDs. No moving parts at all.
[15:32:03] <Connor> Euro_: Not on my setup.
[15:32:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy_promo.html
[15:32:50] <Connor> I do have cooling in the setup were the mobo is in same chassis as the stepper drivers and stepper PSU.. but, not for the PC... it's cooling for the drivers.
[15:32:50] <r00t4rd3d> arduino people ^^
[15:34:16] <Euro_> One more question: are you guys running Ubuntu on the d525? If so, were there any driver issues etc?
[15:35:08] <andypugh> No, just install straight from the LinuxCNC LiveCD and start configuring the hrdware
[15:36:15] <Euro_> Cool. Thank you
[15:37:43] <andypugh> That's why we recommend that board. It's cheap, and works very well with no special requirements.
[15:40:51] <Connor> gawd coping 3/4 of a Terabyte takes for freaking EVER.
[15:52:57] <cradek> wouldn't this lose position?
http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Otletek/osszeallitas.jpg
[15:53:10] <cradek> from here:
http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Otletek/Otletek.htm
[15:53:36] <cradek> I agree it'd likely be very small backlash, but I think position would creep
[15:57:57] <andypugh> I have seen them sold commercially.
[15:58:07] <andypugh> The blue bits have zero lead.
[15:59:43] <andypugh> http://www.skf.com/files/779280.pdf
[15:59:46] <cradek> ohhh
[15:59:51] <cradek> that's the part I was missing, thanks
[16:00:03] <cradek> then it would obviously work
[16:00:39] <cradek> I didn't try to translate it
[16:01:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/QjZfR.jpg
[16:01:37] <cradek> in their test rig (like the last photo) I think their blue parts are a screw
[16:02:06] <cradek> er this photo:
http://www.hobbycnc.hu/CNC/Otletek/orso.jpg
[16:02:17] <cradek> I'm pretty sure those are screw threads
[16:03:27] <cradek> but if those are matching pitch I think it wouldn't move at all
[16:04:36] <cradek> er no, it would move twice as fast
[16:17:14] <andypugh> Yes, those look like screws. I think they have missed the trick.
[16:28:45] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, could you build a nice machine for 1500?
[16:29:35] <andypugh> It would be a struggle
[16:30:09] <andypugh> But then, it depends on what you consider "nice:
[16:30:26] <r00t4rd3d> one that works
[16:30:56] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:31:07] <andypugh> And what sort of machine?
[16:31:23] <r00t4rd3d> diy cnc router
[16:31:41] <r00t4rd3d> or a mechanical bull
[16:31:43] <r00t4rd3d> what ever
[16:32:02] <andypugh> That's probably doable, if you manage to resist spending $1k on a nice spindle.
[16:32:13] <r00t4rd3d> 100 dewalt
[16:32:45] <andypugh> The cost of wires, connectors and bolts adds up more than you think though.
[16:33:07] <WillenCMD> im a bit frustrated, i bought a nema 32 1200oz stepper motor, and you wouldn't believe how easy it is to turn when its "holding"
[16:33:19] <r00t4rd3d> not with ebay/china/hongdong
[16:33:39] <andypugh> WillenCMD: 8 wires?
[16:33:48] <gene77> What am I doing wrong with g76 in metric mode, its advancing the bit by only .001mm
[16:33:58] <r00t4rd3d> 1200oz?
[16:34:20] <WillenCMD> yes, i have .0012 of play on a 4 inch diameter
[16:34:40] <WillenCMD> thats with a 10000 line encoder tuned also, without that its worse
[16:36:28] <r00t4rd3d> just out of curiosity whats your velocity and acceleration set to with those motors?
[16:37:46] <WillenCMD> the velocity is 720, and accel is 40,000
[16:37:53] <WillenCMD> its a rotary axis
[16:37:56] <andypugh> gene77: You probably need to change the J to suit the metric dimensions.
[16:38:35] <WillenCMD> i have a parker compumotor and it is rated at 600oz it feels stronger that this one
[16:41:53] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm e
[16:42:18] <Jymmm> ?
[16:42:56] <archivist> WillenCMD, 1200oz means nothing without the radius
[16:43:01] <r00t4rd3d> youve been so quiet
[16:43:45] <Jymmm> busy
[16:44:42] <archivist> WillenCMD, in channel not pm
[16:45:06] <WillenCMD> radius or the shaft of whats its rated?
[16:48:37] <archivist> 1200oz is at some radius, the 600oz of the other motor may be at a different radius
[16:50:03] <archivist> some may attempt to show a larger number by using a shorter radius see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque
[16:50:11] <andypugh> I think he means oz-in in both cases
[16:50:16] <WillenCMD> oh makes sense
[16:50:28] <WillenCMD> no oz-tons
[16:50:41] <WillenCMD> :)
[16:51:07] <andypugh> they use oz-in because it is a much bigger number than lbs-ft
[16:51:18] <WillenCMD> i always convert them
[16:54:44] <DaViruz> i like ton-furlong
[16:55:44] <WillenCMD> actually i stand corrected the data sheet for the parker motor i have is 1200oz-in also there is a huge difference
[16:56:29] <WillenCMD> i have another one of those motor's on the floor at home, im going to bring it and test it
[16:56:56] <archivist> you also quote an odd frame size nema 32
[16:57:40] <WillenCMD> 34, sorry
[17:03:24] <archivist> have you got the right current through it, has the driver you are using got automatic reduced current (therefore reduced holding torque)
[17:04:51] <andypugh> Ah, yes, auto current reduction could be the issue.
[17:06:50] <WillenCMD> yes it does have auto current, but i have it off
[18:16:46] <[PT]gmagno> is it possible with linuxcnc to estimate the amount of time remaining to finish a job?
[18:16:54] <r00t-Shed> http://i.imgur.com/O3PRp.png
[18:17:46] <r00t-Shed> :D
[19:00:11] <zerosheds> anyone recall that hackerspace-ish machine shop/club you join? They had a pretty complete pro machine shop
[19:01:17] <zerosheds> it was more a machine shop than a hackerspace since it's focus is more on just maching than general hacking
[19:01:47] <zerosheds> machining/maching
[19:03:24] <r00t4rd3d> results:
[19:03:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/aj69J.jpg
[19:05:11] <zerosheds> nice
[19:15:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/B30gF.jpg
[19:18:59] <Valen> r00t4rd3d: lol @ the mouse
[19:19:58] <r00t4rd3d> sheep skin :)
[19:22:53] <r00t4rd3d> i wipe my keyboard off with it
[19:23:05] <Valen> we have a membrane keyboard
[19:23:19] <r00t4rd3d> i got a brane!
[19:24:36] <r00t4rd3d> next time i got some money to waste :
[19:24:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370627999379
[19:24:56] <r00t4rd3d> then i can just spray that bitch off with the hose
[19:25:22] <Valen> heh yeah
[19:26:10] <Valen> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=XC5172 is what we have
[19:26:43] <r00t4rd3d> i do small engine stuff too so i am always looking at pdf manuals while covered in grease and what not
[19:27:16] <r00t4rd3d> i would rather you choke me with one of those flexible kb's
[19:27:43] <Valen> lol that is a fair call
[19:27:46] <Valen> they do suck
[19:28:16] <r00t4rd3d> but disposable
[19:28:28] <Valen> this one just wont friggin die
[19:31:27] <r00t4rd3d> hit it with a BFH
[19:43:03] <andypugh> I have a stainless vandal-resistant keyboard which hasn't died yet:
http://www.devlin.co.uk/keyboards/kiosks.html\
[19:43:36] <andypugh> (delete that extra slash, ie
http://www.devlin.co.uk/keyboards/kiosks.html
[19:43:36] <dangercraft> Hello everyone.
[19:43:52] <andypugh> Though I didn't pay anything like list price
[19:43:55] <andypugh> Hi dangercraft
[19:44:15] <dangercraft> Hi :)
[19:45:29] <elmo401> r00t4rd3d: love the Nintendo controller ;)
[19:45:39] <dangercraft> I have a simple question I was hoping to bother someone with... Could someone help me with getting permission to use the forums? I got an email saying I needed to wait for permission but its been a while now.
[19:45:43] <elmo401> x y and z?
[19:46:10] <cradek> dangercraft: jthornton is your guy for that.
[19:46:35] <dangercraft> Ahh ok, do I need to email him?
[19:46:40] <andypugh> I used to be able to do it, but they Admin button disappeared and I can't figure it out now.
[19:47:07] <cradek> I bet he will see it here; there are two of him lurking
[19:47:29] <andypugh> <poke> JT-Shop
[19:47:39] <dangercraft> lol 2 of him :)
[19:49:06] <KimK> Andy used to be able to do it, but now he's stuck in traffic waiting for the olympics to start/end. Any stories, Andy?
[19:49:50] <andypugh> No problems here at all
[19:49:58] <KimK> Ah, excellent!
[19:50:36] <andypugh> dangercraft: I found the approve/refuse link.
[19:50:48] <dangercraft> Excellent :D
[19:50:53] <andypugh> No sign of "dangercraft"
[19:51:09] <andypugh> There is a fair chance you are already subscribed
[19:51:42] <dangercraft> dangercraft is the username, and the email address is frank@aigint.com. I don't think I am subscribed, about an hour ago it denied me. I'll check right now.
[19:51:53] <andypugh> But as the user list has 2816 users, in seemingly random order, it is hard to be sure
[19:52:15] <andypugh> It denies me nearly every time I log in, until I refresh the page
[19:52:26] <tom3p> zerosheds: looking for Hackerspace in Chicago?
[19:52:44] <dangercraft> "Incorrect username or password"
[19:53:27] <andypugh> Try registering again.
[19:54:04] <dangercraft> Will do
[19:55:20] <dangercraft> Ok just reregistered
[19:55:55] <dangercraft> Ok got the user registration pendign approval email
[19:56:11] <andypugh> Nothing here...
[19:56:39] <dangercraft> scratching head
[19:57:04] <andypugh> Maybe JT has access to a more reliable interface. I am told that there are 551 users awaiting approval, but when I click, it says there are none
[19:57:36] <dangercraft> oh well, thats ok, I'll wait - no hurry
[19:58:00] <andypugh> You can get fast help here, generally, too.
[19:59:01] <dangercraft> well, I have one machine I already set up with linux cnc and I just wanted to get some advice on the other two I wanted to set up as far as hardware
[20:00:54] <dangercraft> The machine I currently have running is a 72"*120" lathe I am running having ac servos on the z and x axis and not much else, in the future I'll be looking at upgrading the setup to use a vfd and 2 screws on z but for now it does the jobe well
[20:01:42] <andypugh> 2 screws on Z for 2 tools?
[20:02:04] <andypugh> Which servo drives?
[20:02:48] <dangercraft> well, the saddle is 48+ inches wide and the ballscrew is on the cutting tool side, I'd like to add a second screw on the opposite side later
[20:03:17] <dangercraft> the drives and servos are Panasonic 750w with 50:1 harmonic drives on both the axis
[20:03:18] <andypugh> That could get interesting...
[20:03:23] <tom3p> crabbing?
[20:04:01] <andypugh> That isn't a small machine is it?
[20:04:34] <andypugh> 750W seems quite modest for a machine that size
[20:04:36] <dangercraft> well, its not noticable, but I am getting a slight crab I can notice from when I change directions and I can tell because it causes a lack of repeatability
[20:05:16] <tom3p> the screw(s) should be at least 40-50mm for 1 meter saddle
[20:05:18] <dangercraft> its 750w but with the 50:1 I am getting about 1500 inch pounds of torque which is more than enough :-D
[20:05:31] <dangercraft> The Z screw is a 2" rockford
[20:05:42] <dangercraft> with the preload ballnut
[20:06:08] <dangercraft> Maybe next year I can afford the second one :-D
[20:06:14] <dangercraft> ballscrew that is :-D
[20:07:00] <tom3p> got a year? :) look into gantry configs, similar considerations to your dual front/back saddle drive
[20:09:44] <dangercraft> my main concern is what happens when a z servo drive hiccups and the other drive keeps pushing, but looking at the pinout on the drive there is an external error alarm that I can use to stop the opposite servo in can of a power surge etc. And then routing the a,b,r from the servo encoder back to linuxcnc I should be able to make sure that there is a shutdown in case there is a difference in
[20:09:44] <dangercraft> screw speeds etc
[20:10:42] <dangercraft> If I can correct for that fast enough then nothing should break... I think
[20:11:26] <dangercraft> I wanted to post pics of the machine on the forum to see what ideas other people came up with.
[20:13:43] <andypugh> Hang around a while longer, I am sure JT-Shop will reappear eventually. But it is way past my bedtime.
[20:14:12] <dangercraft> Right now I mainly use that machine to turn locomotive and freight car wheels and it works pretty good, but then the tolerances acceptable for wheels are pretty loose (about +-1/32). I wanted tighten up the saddle so to speak and add a vfd with an encoder on the spindle
[20:14:22] <dangercraft> thanks :)
[20:25:36] <dangercraft> PC crashed :/
[20:26:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop:
https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython
[20:27:34] <ReadError_> anyone had linux crash mid cut?
[20:29:01] <dangercraft> Not linux CNC, but I've had a single servo drive crash mid cut... nasty when you are reprofiling a 3000 pound wheel :/
[20:29:10] <dangercraft> is JT-Shop back? :-D
[20:30:59] <dangercraft> If I were smart and not lazy, I'd have already connected the watchdog pulser to the drives and the error lines from the drives to linuxcnc to keep that from happening
[20:42:35] <dangercraft> Last week I got my hands on a Jet 13x40 that had never been used and had been stored in a friends shop for about 10 years. He bought it new but never used it and I traded him some work for it.I'd like to convert it and I was thinking I'd use a 10kw AC servo connected directly to the spindle via a toothed belt so with a reduction so that at 3000 servo RPM I'd get 2000 spindle RPM. I was
[20:42:36] <dangercraft> thinking about using a 5mm pitch preloaded ballscrew connected directly to a 750w (1 HP) AC servo for Z and a similar setup for X. How does this sound? I'd like to add glass scales, but I am still a little fuzzy on how they integrate to linuxcnc. Any ideas?
[20:44:28] <dangercraft> anyone on?
[20:50:47] <dangercraft> Hello again everyone... my connection is kinda spotty tonigh :/
[20:51:24] <dangercraft> .
[20:51:29] <KimK> dangercraft: Hi. The wiki has info on how to use two encoders (one a glass scale).
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
[20:53:24] <Jymmm> pcw_home:
https://www.coursera.org/course/vlsicad
[20:54:01] <dangercraft> Thanks Kim :) I've been looking at that, but my question is about the encoders with interpolation. All of the 2 micron encoders I have been able to find use ASIC interpolation and I am curios if this is ok or becomes a limiting factor at rapid feed rates
[20:55:53] <dangercraft> for instance I am looking at the 1 micron scale at dropros.com, which seems VERY reasonably priced, but it also uses ASIC interpolation
[21:00:01] <KimK> It turns out that it doesn't matter (to LinuxCNC), since the high-res encoders (whatever they are) are only used for the I (integral) term, so if they're slow to catch up, that's OK. Of course, if they have a speed limit, and you exceed it (the encoders lose counts), that's on you, so read the data sheet first. Hope that helps?
[21:03:06] <Valen> we use .001mm encoders
[21:03:11] <Valen> seem to work ok
[21:03:52] <dangercraft> Yes, absolutely! I was under the impresion that linuxcnc polled it as it rolled so to speak so that if the asic freq was lower than the polling speed then there was nothing to catch up. That makes sense because then I am assuming linuxcnc uses the optical encoder feedback from the servo for a low latency solution and the scale for high accuracy like it says on the wiki. Now that makes
[21:03:53] <dangercraft> perfect sense, thanks! :9
[21:04:52] <dangercraft> Now I just need to figure out what the speed limit is on those... I'll send an email and see what reply I get.
[21:05:02] <KimK> Also, on your spindle, if you have a gearbox now, I'd be inclined to keep it. Big diameter heavy cuts at low RPM might tend to stall otherwise? Something to think about anyway.
[21:06:19] <KimK> Sometimes it's nice to have choices all the way down to "granny low".
[21:07:52] <KimK> Back in a bit.
[21:12:21] <dangercraft> I figured 10kw (approx 13hp) or approx. 585 in lbs of torque would be ok for a 13in. swing would be enough, but you are right, its something to consider. The other thing is, all the gears are already there, I already paid for them I guess. :-D The other thing is that I wanted to take advantage of the machine having zero wear to turn it into a poor mans precision turning center so I am figure
[21:12:21] <dangercraft> I won't be doing any heavy cuts with it.
[21:12:39] <dangercraft> thats 585 in lbs after the belt reduction
[21:14:44] <dangercraft> Come to think about it, I should find out what speed the spindle bearings are good for, it would be nice to be able to bump up the spindle speed to 3000 rpm or more.
[21:16:23] <dangercraft> brb
[21:21:41] <Valen> we use them with mesa
[21:22:23] <Valen> servo stuff with pport could be dubious
[21:23:20] <dangercraft> back :)
[21:24:32] <dangercraft> Valen: If figured as much, I'd also like to use the servo drives at 10k per rev, so mesa or similar is also the way to go for that
[21:25:18] <dangercraft> On the big lathe I am using the parport with the drives set to 500 per rev, but with the 50 reduction its more than plenty
[21:30:55] <dangercraft> anyone know if JT-shop is back online?
[21:31:07] <Tom_itx> he's probably in bed
[21:31:14] <jdh> late for him
[21:31:39] <dangercraft> ahh, you're right, I didn't realize what time it was
[21:32:15] <dangercraft> Well, I'll sign on tomorrow, hopefully I can get him to activate me on the forum
[21:32:58] <dangercraft> ok good night everyone :)
[21:38:03] <WillenCMD> in through the worm hole always leaves me with more questions, than answers.
[21:55:50] <WillenCMD> does anyone know if stepper motor's should have wiggle when holding position?
[21:56:56] <Tom_itx> no
[21:57:00] <Tom_itx> not really
[21:57:30] <WillenCMD> im seeing .006 at a 4. o.d
[21:58:58] <WillenCMD> with a 10000 line encoder and some fancy tuning i got it down to .0012
[21:59:04] <WillenCMD> still thought it would be better
[22:04:15] <KimK> WillenCMD: Are they small steppers? Any stepper motor is like a (200-position?) mechanical detent, if you twist it hard enough, you can get it to jump to another nearby detent. So there may be some flex. Is there flex in something else there?
[22:05:12] <KimK> Are you running the prescribed current? Does your drive use a current-reduction after some time with no motion?
[22:05:35] <WillenCMD> hmmm i do have reduced current mode disabled
[22:05:36] <KimK> (The latter may not be such a good idea)
[22:05:52] <WillenCMD> but there could be a reduced hold rate after a duration
[22:06:09] <WillenCMD> its not a dip setting but they are digital could be in the firmware
[22:06:15] <KimK> Yes, full current may be best until you get things sorted out, at least?
[22:06:40] <WillenCMD> i was always under the impression steppers had zero movement
[22:07:36] <WillenCMD> but i usually use them to drive leadscrew's or gearing mechanism. This is the first machine i have retrofitted for a customer that couldn't have any backlash so i couldn't use a gear drive
[22:08:11] <WillenCMD> i may have to invest in some 2600 oz nema 34's
[22:08:40] <WillenCMD> .0012 is the exact deadband of the encoder at that o.d so its either i switch to a resolver or a larger motor
[22:09:16] <KimK> deadband or mimimum increment?
[22:09:25] <WillenCMD> minimum increment
[22:09:32] <KimK> OK
[22:09:41] <WillenCMD> 10,000 lines at 4. od equals .0012
[22:10:26] <KimK> Oh, this is some kind of belt/wheel application? No ballscrew?
[22:10:47] <WillenCMD> its direct drive for a spindle used to sharpen hob's
[22:11:36] <KimK> 10,000 lines (40,000 quadrature counts) or 10,000 quadrature counts (2,500 lines)?
[22:12:04] <WillenCMD> i wish it was 40,000 no its 2500cpr
[22:12:04] <KimK> Oh, wait, this is stepper, sorry
[22:12:24] <WillenCMD> yeah im driving the stepper as a servo
[22:14:12] <KimK> Oh, really? I hope you'll post something on that, many have asked about it. I'm uncertain about it due to stalling. But having an encoder on a stepper for following error alarms would be nice.
[22:14:32] <WillenCMD> i have already done it
[22:14:48] <WillenCMD> this is the second one, its amazing completely changes the way it sounds
[22:15:00] <KimK> What about the stalling issue?
[22:15:12] <WillenCMD> Stalling?
[22:15:38] <WillenCMD> im using velocity mode
[22:15:43] <WillenCMD> in stepgen
[22:16:17] <WillenCMD> i am almost done with a gladevcp gui that allows for live tuning and save's it to your hal file
[22:18:00] <KimK> I meant when a stepper gets at the high speed end, its available torque goes way down (typically) so I was in doubt as to whether making minor adjustments via PID would be sufficient to get it back again. But it's been working for you? I'd like to hear the difference in sound, any YouTube videos?
[22:18:40] <WillenCMD> not yet, but i'll record one the problem is its on an industrial machine so its noisy in there shop
[22:19:03] <KimK> Ah, perhaps nights or weekends, then?
[22:19:25] <WillenCMD> tommorow AM im dropping a bill off to them
[22:19:47] <WillenCMD> to make matter's harder i tuned that stepper wiht the encoder on the leadscrew of the machine and the stepper was driving a belt
[22:19:54] <WillenCMD> the machine has .01 backlash as well
[22:19:57] <KimK> I'll look forward to seeing your video, thanks.
[22:20:00] <WillenCMD> took 2 days to tune
[22:20:16] <KimK> I'll bet that was interesting.
[22:20:34] <KimK> Why didn't you pick servos?
[22:20:34] <WillenCMD> but, holds size within .0001
[22:20:44] <WillenCMD> price
[22:21:52] <KimK> OK, interesting, I'll look forward to seeing your video, and your blog, if you have one.
[22:21:55] <WillenCMD> i found a medium though between the 2, 3 phase steppre's using velocity with encoder feedback
[22:22:29] <WillenCMD> im designing a 150v steper drive, that uses an encoder for feedback and drives similar to a bldc
[22:22:50] <WillenCMD> thats in my spare time, wich is few and far between
[22:23:28] <WillenCMD> should provide around 1500 rpms with a flatter torque curve
[22:23:52] <WillenCMD> sacrificing a little holding torque
[22:24:41] <WillenCMD> it will also micro step in a pid loop as well adjusting the step resolution the closer it gets to the target position
[22:28:23] <KimK> Now that I understand you're running a "servo motor" (albeit an odd one!), then I'll change my answer to your original question: Yes, it should have play (or at least can be pulled off-center), like a mechanical detent with one giant detent (or pair of CW/CCW springs). That would be about normal for a "servo" loop. Which is really what you've got there. Interesting.
[22:29:38] <WillenCMD> it does it in plain step mode too, only alot more,
[22:30:09] <WillenCMD> i tuned .005 out of it, now it fights you the more you try and twist it
[22:30:39] <KimK> Good, yes, that is what it should be doing.
[22:30:56] <WillenCMD> used maxerror set at .0359 a tenth below what one increment of the encoder is
[22:31:10] <WillenCMD> Pgain is up around 400
[22:31:19] <KimK> Although it may feel strange with a stepper, I'd like to feel that one.
[22:31:50] <WillenCMD> if you try hard enough it will advance one tooth in the motor and immediatly rapid back
[22:32:05] <WillenCMD> but thats putting alot of force on it
[22:33:14] <WillenCMD> i used a torque wrench in plain step mode it will move at around 6 ft-lb wich is about right. But in servo mode it won't shift untill 10ft-lb
[22:33:49] <WillenCMD> thats with a torque wrench on the motor shaft
[22:33:55] <KimK> What does it sound like while you are forcing it? I hope you will post something on this, many have asked about it.
[22:34:21] <WillenCMD> i know i was talking to andy, he said he didn't think it had ever been done
[22:34:33] <WillenCMD> i googled and everyone said it didn't work
[22:34:42] <WillenCMD> but i couldn't see why it wouldn't
[22:35:34] <WillenCMD> now i have 2 examples one with a 250cpr encoder and another with a 2500cpr encoder
[22:37:33] <WillenCMD> it really doesn't sound like anything its so quiet
[22:37:50] <WillenCMD> it doesn't make a sound moving a 240 rpms
[22:38:08] <WillenCMD> well it makes a sound but not nearly what you would expect
[22:38:18] <KimK> I can see problems if you use an encoder that has similar resolution to the motor step size, there may be aliasing problems then. But if you use an encoder that is much higher resolution than the motor step size, then no aliasing problems. You said you were 10,000 counts vs. 200 steps (800 1/4 steps)? So lets say about x10? That qualifies as >> I'd say.
[22:39:19] <WillenCMD> i doubt anyone doing positioning will use a 50cpr encoder
[22:39:39] <WillenCMD> i use a micro step resolution of 2 times the encoder, thats the key
[22:39:57] <WillenCMD> it also works at exactly the same count
[22:40:13] <WillenCMD> if you go less you run into oscillation problems
[22:42:07] <KimK> I'm not sure what you mean by "...micro step resolution of 2 times the encoder..."
[22:42:56] <WillenCMD> 10000 lines on the encoder, a minimum microstep of 50 or 10000 steps per rev
[22:43:49] <WillenCMD> otherwise one step pulse would advance it past the encoder increment
[22:45:48] <KimK> Interesting. Microstepping that high, what would usually be excessively high, may help to "blur" the stepper operation. That may be helpful in this limited case?
[22:47:15] <WillenCMD> yes, most of the machines i retrofit require extremely high micro step resolutions weather it be a very slow feedrate say .0001 in/sec
[22:48:23] <WillenCMD> The first machine i used servo-stepper on the feedrate required was .00002 in/sec
[22:51:29] <KimK> I have found that generally after about 1/4 step, maybe 1/8 step tops, you can't rely on the relationship of current to motor position. By the time you get to 1/10 or 1/16 steps, the relationship is pretty shaky, and by 1/20 step, you're just kidding yourself. Sometimes a larger than 1/20 step occurs, and sometimes no motion at all occurs. Now this is in "conventional" stepper operation, I mean.
[22:52:05] <WillenCMD> exactly, that was my problem
[22:52:54] <WillenCMD> a machine required to hold sizes of .0002 moving that slow any change in the load weather it be a tight gib in a certain spot would cause almost certain "no movement steps"
[22:53:33] <WillenCMD> thats why it was imparitive that i mount an encoder
[22:54:06] <KimK> Yes, I do hope you will write something up on this for the wiki, or for your blog. It will be read with great interest, I'm sure.
[22:55:04] <WillenCMD> I will i'll release the gui for easier tuning, because you have to set the ini file min following error and ferror extremely high at initilal starting
[22:55:35] <WillenCMD> of the tuning process, and really only 3 parameter's get adjusted
[22:55:44] <WillenCMD> Pgain, Dgain, FF1
[22:57:42] <KimK> Ha, you're way ahead of me, I still have a stepper (conventional) system that I have to go back and help add encoders and following error detectors to. "It's done, but did it miss any steps? How can you be sure?" lol.
[22:58:26] <WillenCMD> Usdigital have great kit enoders pretty reasonably piced
[22:58:33] <WillenCMD> priced*
[22:59:24] <WillenCMD> My customer has been running the machine in Servo-stepper mode for 2 week's hasn't had one following error
[22:59:33] <WillenCMD> i have the following error set to .0002
[23:00:41] <WillenCMD> well, im off to bed i'll continue the machine tomorrow and if i get there early i'll record a video :)
[23:00:44] <WillenCMD> good nigt
[23:01:10] <KimK> Yes, I like their E6D if I have room for the 2" disk, and their E5D if I only have room for a 1" disk. Great products. On the stepper system in question, however, we'll be using the AUI magnetic interpolator encoders, because the owner already has them. And since they're not in a loop, it should be minimally OK. Though I have reservations about the AUI's in high-performance applications.
[23:01:20] <KimK> OK, thanks again. Goodnight.
[23:20:07] <JessicaRN> hey folks, anyone used the free rhino product? any thoughts?
[23:23:19] <JessicaRN> ear, what happened to the emc chat?
[23:25:00] <Eartaker> this is emc chat
[23:25:04] <Eartaker> they changed the name
[23:25:09] <JessicaRN> doh
[23:25:13] <Eartaker> =]
[23:25:40] <JessicaRN> a few years ago it was hoppin
[23:26:16] <Eartaker> yeah.... not sure whats going on right now
[23:26:25] <Eartaker> they changed the name only a few months ago
[23:26:55] <Eartaker> oooo my band saw is done
[23:27:05] <Eartaker> 4 hours of cutting
[23:27:38] <JessicaRN> home built?
[23:28:47] <Eartaker> the band saw? nope, I was cutting a block of 7075 aluminum
[23:29:02] <JessicaRN> for what?
[23:29:08] <Eartaker> 3" wide but a 8" length of cut
[23:29:17] <Eartaker> to machine down for the engine im building
[23:29:27] <Eartaker> this will become the base plate
[23:29:30] <JessicaRN> k
[23:29:47] <JessicaRN> model engine? what kind?
[23:30:00] <Eartaker> yeah a small hit and miss engine
[23:30:20] <JessicaRN> i'd like to make a mini flat four air cooled
[23:30:32] <Eartaker> that would be awesome
[23:30:35] <JessicaRN> simple project to start out
[23:30:42] <Eartaker> heh...
[23:31:06] <JessicaRN> what? a flat four is a petty simple engine, is it not?
[23:31:09] <Eartaker> not simple really, you have to look at the hard parts like the machining of the valves and cam
[23:31:16] <JessicaRN> pretty
[23:31:33] <JessicaRN> valve schmalve
[23:31:34] <Eartaker> the design is simple but in the home shop the cam and crank can be a PITA
[23:31:45] <Eartaker> lol
[23:32:05] <Eartaker> this is my 2nd engine. the 1st was a 2stoke so no valves
[23:32:15] <Eartaker> 2 stroke
[23:32:22] <JessicaRN> i never want to make a simple "hello world". If i make it, I wanna brag about it.
[23:32:51] <Eartaker> that is true, but you have to lean the code to make the "brag about program"
[23:32:55] <Eartaker> learn
[23:33:20] <Eartaker> I brag about my little 2 stroke diesel to everyone =]
[23:34:06] <JessicaRN> i've written some straight g-code. i just have a prob with the complex 3d curves for the art stuff i was talking about earlier
[23:34:49] <Eartaker> those can get crazy
[23:35:00] <JessicaRN> yep.
[23:35:49] <Eartaker> http://youtu.be/1BtOjeYtgqo
[23:35:54] <JessicaRN> there is an artist
http://www.bathsheba.com/ who does some cool stuff. all rp though
[23:37:05] <JessicaRN> nice
[23:37:23] <JessicaRN> now i know what ur hand looks like
[23:37:48] <Eartaker> thats an awesome bottle opener
[23:37:53] <Eartaker> haha yeah
[23:38:34] <JessicaRN> so anyone else in here awake? Has anyone used the free rhino product?
[23:39:06] <JessicaRN> if not, what g-code generation apps do you all use?
[23:39:11] <Eartaker> do you have a distro on linux installed on a pc?
[23:39:22] <JessicaRN> yeah, of course
[23:40:14] <Eartaker> this one is listed on the probix website
http://www.gsimple.eu/
[23:40:38] <Eartaker> mostly 2d it looks like though
[23:41:06] <JessicaRN> yeah, looks that way
[23:43:27] <JessicaRN> with all the hobby cncers out there I would have figured that there would be a product
[23:43:38] <JessicaRN> has anyone used bobcad?
[23:44:41] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486478_4068620269842_488764660_n.jpg
[23:45:21] <Eartaker> I hear bobcad is awesome I know a lot of guys on CNCzone use it
[23:45:57] <JessicaRN> i have a friend who has two seats and is willing to let me borrow one
[23:46:06] <Eartaker> do it
[23:46:12] <Eartaker> it would be a far better product
[23:46:24] <JessicaRN> with that gen my toolpaths?
[23:46:56] <Eartaker> yep
[23:47:11] <Eartaker> if he has the cam addon
[23:50:14] <JessicaRN> looking now
[23:56:02] <Eartaker> do you like Mach or EMC better?
[23:57:21] <JessicaRN> well, i'm much stronger in a win environment that a linux one, so mach. emc seemed pretty clunky to me a few years ago when i last looked at it.
[23:59:32] <tjb1> I sent an email to mach support…never answered me
[23:59:42] <JessicaRN> shame
[23:59:58] <tjb1> Kinda like how I have been waiting 2 months for a catalog from 80/20
