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[01:07:47] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: looks great.
[02:04:48] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:18:45] <MrSunshine> http://imagebin.org/220826 darwin at work
[02:32:54] <tjb1> CNCzone needs to do something about the spammer
[02:32:55] <tjb1> s
[04:21:09] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[05:43:45] <andypugh> Excellent:
http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
[05:55:54] <r00t4rd3d> O_-
[06:00:37] <r00t4rd3d> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LJjW_1GAPjA/T-nmI0HWCWI/AAAAAAAADKY/PsiVVwGCVQQ/s871/Samples.jpg
[06:00:43] <r00t4rd3d> i like the
[06:00:52] <r00t4rd3d> "salad hands"
[06:02:38] <r00t4rd3d> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pPDCndbsZvs/T3FQQfCsFGI/AAAAAAAADFY/h5Lo8q3IFzc/s1024/DSC00509.JPG
[06:31:49] <Loetmichel> *haha* nostalgia hits... found my old gameboy advance with a tetris card inside... new batteries-> runs... just gamed a bit... *awesome memories* ;-)
[07:04:32] <gmagno> hello, I haven't read the datasheets in detail, but... does anyone know the main differences between the Allegro A4988 and A4984. I want to drive a nema17 motor whose main spec is 1.8A
[07:14:07] <archivist> you want us to read the datasheet for you :)
[07:14:27] <jthornton> it was on my list of things to do but I've not had the time
[07:19:15] <r00t4rd3d> There is a 4 digit span in the model numbers.
[07:20:35] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think amps would be the main spec of a stepper either.
[07:20:50] <r00t4rd3d> frame size would probably come first for me
[07:22:25] <gmagno> my conviction is that they are almost interchangeable, and was hoping that the community experience would answer this question easily. But thanks anyway
[07:24:08] <r00t4rd3d> such a small jump in model numbers the differences are probably not much
[07:24:25] <r00t4rd3d> probably power stuffs
[07:24:34] <r00t4rd3d> fuck now i gotta look
[07:26:29] <r00t4rd3d> 84 = No smoke no fire (NSNF) compliance (ET package)
[07:32:44] <jthornton> maybe on #electronics
[07:36:04] <archivist> andypugh, some rust in leicester see fleabay seller oldschoolgill an item 110915800612
[07:37:03] <jthornton> I like that works but broken
[07:37:44] <archivist> some of the descriptions are not believable :)
[07:37:44] <r00t4rd3d> i bet you have a tool like that
[07:37:56] <archivist> I dont
[07:38:18] <r00t4rd3d> no screw drivers with a chipped handle?
[07:38:59] <archivist> a tool like that is a saw sharpener !
[07:41:40] <r00t4rd3d> it takes me like 20 tries to get my gear on the end of my threaded rod straight.
[07:42:03] <r00t4rd3d> there is 2 keys and each one will tilt it slightly
[07:43:15] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna jam it in someones eye on try #10
[07:50:11] <r00t4rd3d> carve these out on your fancy machine:
[07:50:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://cdn.thegloss.com/files/2011/02/nikeclogs.jpg
[07:50:53] <andypugh> archivist: Seems overpriced for special-purpose rust.
[07:51:07] <andypugh> Especially with what saw blades cost nowadays
[07:51:21] <archivist> andypugh, what I thought too
[07:52:07] <archivist> I thick all that sellers prices are 3 times too high
[07:53:54] <archivist> where as 221069262442 seems to be solid meaty nourishment
[07:56:22] <andypugh> Yes, that does look properly sturdy.
[07:57:05] <andypugh> But I think you would need a travelling crane to switch to horizontal mode.
[07:58:03] <archivist> some mills have the crane built in
[07:58:41] <andypugh> Mine might, eventually.
[09:14:31] <Tom_itx> andypugh i think i got it all working except the inverted logic caused one default not to work properly but i can get past that
[09:15:41] <Tom_itx> the resolution per step on the mpg
[09:34:53] <JT-Shop> hmmm python + tk or python + glade
[09:35:47] <Jymmm> I'd say glade
[09:35:53] <Tom_itx> morning JT-Shop, Jymmm
[09:36:07] <Jymmm> howdy Tom_itx
[09:36:47] <Tom_itx> first project since the 'renovation'
[09:36:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder2.jpg
[09:37:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/cnc_files/millholder3.jpg
[09:37:06] <JT-Shop> morning
[09:37:29] <Tom_itx> got my silly pendant io move over finally
[09:38:19] <JT-Shop> that a safety belt on the tool rack?
[09:38:33] <Tom_itx> spare spindle belt
[09:38:44] <andypugh> Paranoid?
[09:38:53] <Tom_itx> no it's broke
[09:38:54] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:39:01] <Tom_itx> keep it for the numbers
[09:39:25] * Jymmm hands Tom_itx some post-it notes
[09:39:27] <andypugh> Why didn't you make a special place in the holder for it :-)
[09:39:40] <JT-Shop> I think I'll go for glade, done tk with the simple g code generators
[09:39:41] <Tom_itx> i did
[09:40:33] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Glade is a lot easier to get the gui looking right, and a lot more powerful. It _ought_ to be easier.
[09:40:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: looks nice
[09:41:49] <JT-Shop> yea, I think it is time to move on to glade, I've messed with it a bit in the past
[09:42:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Be warned, that red acrylic will crack if stressed
[09:42:37] <Tom_itx> it was just scrap laying around
[09:42:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[09:42:59] <Tom_itx> seems like it's holding for now
[09:44:47] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: =)
[09:50:09] * Loetmichel hase made a holder for the ER11 collets lately....
[09:50:11] <JT-Shop> need a bigger monitor for glade + a tutorial :(
[09:50:20] <Loetmichel> WITH writing...
[09:50:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12638
[09:50:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: two projectors and that big ass bare wall in the newshop
[09:50:56] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221
[09:51:05] <JT-Shop> lol
[09:51:45] <archivist> no space for the holder redo from start
[09:52:02] <Tom_itx> Note
[09:52:03] <Tom_itx> Don’t try and set the offsets by editing the tool table, the offsets are from the machine origin.
[09:52:17] <Tom_itx> rather: Don't try and set the length offsets
[09:52:26] * Tom_itx looks at JT-Shop
[09:52:49] * JT-Shop looks back through the maze of windoes on this tiny monitor
[09:53:08] * JT-Shop nods
[09:53:19] * archivist looks askance at the looks
[09:53:35] <Loetmichel> tiny monitor?
[09:53:40] <Loetmichel> where?
[09:53:42] <Tom_itx> 22:
[09:53:44] <Tom_itx> 22"
[09:53:46] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:53:50] <Loetmichel> i need one in 10 to 12"
[09:54:00] <Loetmichel> and 1024*768 at least...
[09:54:06] <Tom_itx> i need a touchscreen now
[09:54:07] <Loetmichel> but where to get ;-)
[09:54:10] <JT-Shop> this one is about 18"
[09:54:29] <Loetmichel> i havent enough room at the CNC.
[09:54:32] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel steal one from UPS / FEDEX truck
[09:55:32] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/SBC/lcdpanel.jpg
[09:55:33] <Loetmichel> the 15" is already crammed between two rack shelves there:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[09:55:37] <Tom_itx> i'd planned on using that one
[09:56:04] <Loetmichel> and i want it to mount on the back wall of the mill, for easy moving the mill
[09:56:24] <Loetmichel> i sometimes have it with me when doing model conventions...
[09:56:27] <Loetmichel> or at company ;-)
[09:56:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12691
[10:02:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you might mention the offset number is a length from machine zero and not a length difference between tools
[10:03:01] <Tom_itx> some machines use the first tool to set zero and the rest are referenced from that
[10:03:46] <JT-Shop> ok
[10:04:13] <Tom_itx> i think that was part of my initial confusion
[10:04:27] <Tom_itx> not sure why i'm confused now :)
[10:04:45] <JT-Shop> olo
[10:06:42] <r00t4rd3d> its the drugs man!
[10:08:22] <r00t4rd3d> lay off the bath salts
[10:17:35] <Jymmm> archivist: Ball Worm Transmission
http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[10:18:04] <Jymmm> archivist: patent for it at bottom in PDF
[10:19:11] <archivist> not sure there is no prior art, typical us paten office
[10:21:19] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/patents/US7051610?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false
[10:22:28] <archivist> In leafing through patents that date from as far back as the early 1900s, Stoianovici found about 30 that made similar claims to that of his invention. "None had been built and none were commercially available," he said. He attributed this only to the recent catching-up of design and manufacturing technologies that can handle the calculations and machining needed for the device's complicated geometry.
[10:22:46] <archivist> so how did he get a patent!
[10:23:26] <Tom_itx> he applied for one?
[10:24:26] <Jymmm> archivist: Just soemthign I came across and thought you could recreate is all
[10:25:05] <gene_> www.mesanet.com is unreachable this morning :(
[10:25:44] <Tom_itx> works fine here
[10:26:17] <Jymmm> it's down here
[10:26:37] <gene_> gene@coyote:/media/pclos11slash/etc$ ping www.mesanet.com
[10:26:38] <Tom_itx> maybe the splash screen was cached ere
[10:26:38] <gene_> PING www.mesanet.com (216.240.33.54) 56(84) bytes of data.
[10:26:40] <Tom_itx> here*
[10:26:40] <gene_> ^C
[10:26:41] <gene_> --- www.mesanet.com ping statistics ---
[10:26:43] <gene_> 9 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 8062ms
[10:26:44] <Tom_itx> it's down
[10:27:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: you broke the interwebs!
[10:27:22] <gene_> Now come and fix it! :)
[10:27:40] <ReadError> hey guys, archivist
[10:27:41] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2015%2C%2011%2014%2053%20AM.jpg
[10:27:47] <ReadError> re did it with backlash on
[10:27:49] <pcw_home> Probably maintenance or something
[10:28:01] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2012%2C%2011%2054%2014%20PM.jpg
[10:28:07] <ReadError> bit better you think?
[10:28:23] <archivist> Jymmm,
http://www.unicopter.com/1509.html
[10:28:33] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com is a possibility if you really need something
[10:30:05] <gene_> That works Peter, thanks
[10:31:01] <archivist> ReadError, I presume the three off is before, and the out of focus the after, yes seems better
[10:32:19] <ReadError> ya the 1st one i posted is the newest:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2015%2C%2011%2014%2053%20AM.jpg
[10:32:28] <ReadError> the one with 3, is w/o compensation
[10:59:21] <Tom_itx> ReadError is that the keeper?
[11:13:37] <ReadError> Tom_itx: yea
[11:14:12] <andypugh> What is magma?
[11:14:38] <andypugh> (in the linuxcnc / rtai context)
[11:28:56] <skunkworks__> I thought that was just a flavor of rtai
[11:36:03] <andypugh> Could be.
[11:36:18] <pfred1> perhaps?
[11:36:37] <pfred1> andypugh how's rain?
[11:36:58] <andypugh> The relationship between Ubuntu versions, kernel versions and rtai versions is a source of bafflement to me
[11:37:38] <pfred1> I think LinuxCNC should go Arch or Gentoo
[11:37:38] <andypugh> It hasn't actually rained today. I think that is the first day this month
[11:38:34] <pfred1> man it is dry as dust here it drizzled a little in the morning but not enough to even wet the ground
[11:38:50] <pfred1> we're losing our whole corn crop the whole state
[11:38:52] <andypugh> pfred1: I think the idea of the liveCD being on Ubuntu is to lower the barrier to Windows folk. If you know which flavour you prefer, you probably know how to roll your own LinuxCNC
[11:39:01] <pfred1> the whole world os going to be real hungry this year
[11:39:23] <pfred1> oh I built mine on Debian
[11:39:32] <pfred1> I'm not saying there shouldn't be a live image
[11:39:44] <andypugh> And the Rio Summit achieved absolutely nothing except 45,000 people flying to Rio.
[11:39:56] <pfred1> but the Ubuntu repo I mean it seems to be headed in its own direction
[11:40:40] <pfred1> did you know that Ubuntu distances itself from the word Linux?
[11:40:56] <Tom_itx> pfred1 naw, they hoard it but it will drive the prices up
[11:41:12] <pfred1> Tom_itx oh the prices are going to go up
[11:41:31] <pfred1> but there will be places we won't even be able to ship to the way things are looking
[11:41:41] <pfred1> it is bad we're plawing fields under now
[11:41:45] <pfred1> plowing even
[11:42:02] <pfred1> I never seen fields plowed under this time of year
[11:42:10] <pfred1> its already over
[11:42:36] <andypugh> pfred1: Too wet or too dry?
[11:42:41] <pfred1> too dry
[11:42:43] <pfred1> too hot
[11:42:55] <jthornton> I'm working through this tutorial on glade but it doesn't say where to put the code at the end
[11:42:56] <jthornton> http://www.overclock.net/t/342279/tutorial-using-python-glade-to-create-a-simple-gui-application
[11:42:57] <andypugh> We had a very hot march, then a frost, so the fruit trees flowered then died. That was a bad start.
[11:43:05] <pfred1> corn standing there looking like it is october already all burnt to nothing
[11:43:36] <pfred1> and it isn't even bad here compared to the breadbasket
[11:43:43] <pfred1> out in the midwest forget about it
[11:44:39] <andypugh> jthornton: I think you choose the python code file name as the action for a GUI control
[11:44:39] <pfred1> I've been checking out gambas lately for programming
[11:44:51] <pfred1> anyone here looked at gambas?
[11:44:53] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[11:45:03] <pfred1> it is a visual basic clone
[11:45:20] <pfred1> aptitude install gambas2
[11:46:20] <pfred1> for a quick and dirty gui hack it can't be beat
[12:32:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:33:29] <pfred1> hi
[12:34:52] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:44:51] <IchGuckLive> do you think its good to get a Tutorial to make a Blender STL radar Mesh Scan to get G-code to your own CAM Data
[12:45:10] <IchGuckLive> Blender §d Radar Laser scanner and hit position 2 G-code
[12:45:42] <pfred1> I can't figure blender out
[12:46:11] <IchGuckLive> it is only good for Lathe Milling without a y axis otherwise you can use standart open source CADCAM
[12:47:47] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: can you try the last file i uploaded to relise the SCAN
http://www.blendpolis.de/download/file.php?id=79447
[12:47:57] <IchGuckLive> you need the latest 2.63a for it
[12:48:32] <IchGuckLive> yust go over 3D view and hit P
[12:49:11] <pfred1> I just happen to have blender-2.63-linux-glibc27-i686
[12:50:25] <IchGuckLive> you need the 2.63a the 2.63 has no phiik engine
[12:50:45] <pfred1> well it opened
[12:51:02] <pfred1> so what am I missing?
[12:51:21] <pfred1> it looks like a dog candlestick
[12:54:41] <pfred1> I went over it and hit P then this cube lasered the dog
[12:55:35] <pfred1> it looked like a scene out of spaceballs or something
[12:56:39] <IchGuckLive> if you run it to the end it will give you a file in the folder that goolds the g_code to reproduce the CAT
[12:57:05] <pfred1> I don't know what you mean run it to the end
[12:57:13] <pfred1> just keep on holding down P?
[12:58:04] <pfred1> I think blender crashed it has become unresponsive
[13:01:00] <IchGuckLive> it does not respond on scanning towards the end at 90deg see the script
[13:01:35] <IchGuckLive> script is in Textedit
[13:02:08] <IchGuckLive> there you can make the numbers Rotation scan wide scan depth offset in the axis and so on
[13:04:10] <pfred1> yeah I reran it and it worked
[13:04:21] <pfred1> I'd spun the object around the last time
[13:04:28] <pfred1> so that kind of messed it up
[13:05:04] <pfred1> this time there was a red beam that scanned up and down not a cube that flew by and lasered it
[13:07:53] <pfred1> so where is the g-code?
[13:10:54] <IchGuckLive> after the gameEngine has finished it retuns to edit mode then you got if you dont changed the name a cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc in your folder
[13:11:03] <IchGuckLive> or one folder back
[13:11:44] <IchGuckLive> i run blender in folder mode so its in the main blender folder
[13:12:01] <pfred1> oh yeah look at that
[13:12:20] <pfred1> -rw-r--r-- 1 pfred1 pfred1 282382 Jul 15 13:53 cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc
[13:12:42] <IchGuckLive> alot of lines
[13:12:57] <pfred1> 14452
[13:13:14] <IchGuckLive> and only 90deg of the Dog
[13:13:18] <pfred1> pfred1@buck:~/bin/blender-2.63-linux-glibc27-i686$ wc -l cat_2G_3m_90Deg.ngc
[13:13:52] <pfred1> oh so it is a dog?
[13:13:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/077/5/5/hello__911__by_reztips-d4t7vsg.jpg
[13:14:23] <IchGuckLive> im working wright now on a collision sensor that brings in the shape of the cutter so its more accurat then a point scanner
[13:14:49] <pfred1> some kind of an interference type of a thing?
[13:15:34] <pfred1> good thing you told me about that file
[13:15:48] <pfred1> I'd have never known it was there
[13:16:27] <IchGuckLive> you need to wright your own its a game
[13:30:17] <IchGuckLive> pfred1: its pure python and the use of the Game Engine to get data
[13:32:54] <IchGuckLive> ok by
[13:32:59] <pfred1> bye
[14:21:56] <r00t4rd3d> almost done, again
[14:35:07] <WillenCMD> hello hello!
[14:36:09] <pfred1> hi
[14:36:38] <WillenCMD> slow day on here?
[14:36:50] <pfred1> no slower than any other
[14:37:20] <pfred1> I got something that was on my list today
[14:37:32] <pfred1> it ain't a great one but it should do
[14:37:38] <WillenCMD> how long is your list? :)
[14:37:46] <pfred1> not very long really
[14:37:51] <pfred1> but I always add to it
[14:38:01] <WillenCMD> what did you get?
[14:38:13] <pfred1> I got one of those hand drill guide slide things
[14:38:18] <archivist> that sort of list only grows!
[14:38:42] <pfred1> you know you mount a hand drill on it and it has these rods and a base and you push the drill on it?
[14:38:54] <WillenCMD> like a mag drill?
[14:39:05] <pfred1> I mean I got a drill press and my mill but sometimes I don't want to put stuff onto those
[14:39:15] <pfred1> no not a beam driller
[14:39:22] <toastyde1th> a drill guide.
[14:39:25] <pfred1> this thing I'll find a pic
[14:39:34] <toastyde1th> makes sure the hand drill is 90 deg to the surface
[14:39:43] <WillenCMD> oh i gotcha
[14:39:45] <Tom_itx> oh a laser guide?
[14:39:52] <Tom_itx> mmm
[14:39:55] <toastyde1th> no, a physical guide
[14:39:56] <WillenCMD> like lewis and clark? but for drills
[14:39:57] <pfred1> I think this is the exact one I got
http://www.tb3.com/tesla/sparkgaps/DrillGuide.jpg
[14:39:59] <toastyde1th> http://www.amazon.com/General-36-37-Precision-Drill/dp/B00004T82L
[14:40:01] <toastyde1th> like this
[14:40:03] <pfred1> looks a heck of a lot like it
[14:40:25] <pfred1> good thing I saw the pic too
[14:40:33] <pfred1> now i know how to do angles with it
[14:40:45] <andypugh> I took a picture of it, I was so pleased with mysefl:
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5645268349766191922 and the following one. Completely hand-held. Well, the drill anyway. The bolt was in a vice.
[14:41:15] <pfred1> what is that a crack pipe?
[14:41:28] <pfred1> whats going on there?
[14:42:22] <pfred1> toastyde1th I actually need mine to redrill holes for a bench i need to repair for the legs
[14:42:37] <pfred1> so not 90 degrees but some repeatable accuracy is required
[14:43:06] <andypugh> pfred1: Were you asking me?
[14:43:10] <pfred1> that bench has been sitting in my shop for a while now I even thought about trying to toss it up onto my mill
[14:43:25] <pfred1> andypugh yeah that paraphenallia picture you posted a link to
[14:43:47] <pfred1> I heard about you brits!
[14:43:48] <andypugh> Just a bolt I drilled a hole down the middle of.
[14:44:03] <Tom_itx> it's a fuse hole for a cannon
[14:44:12] <andypugh> Before I got a lathe, or a bench drill.
[14:44:17] <pfred1> I still have a head bolt I had to drill out of a block
[14:44:24] <andypugh> I have actually forgotten what it was for.
[14:44:34] <pfred1> man that was touch and go
[14:45:00] <pfred1> danged thing broke like a quarter of an inch below the deck
[14:45:06] <pfred1> I was like oh no my car!
[14:45:59] <pfred1> I donno why they call them easy outs it never seems easy whenever I have to use one
[14:46:26] <Tom_itx> how would it be without it?
[14:46:56] <pfred1> helicoil
[14:47:26] <pfred1> after I drilled it I was like torching that block for about 2 hours before I even tried budging it
[14:48:12] <andypugh> How does one remove the Ubuntu loading screen and see the boot messages scrolling past instead?
[14:48:20] <pfred1> headbolt went between 2 exhaust ports it was born to fail
[14:48:45] <pfred1> good question I know you can do it
[14:48:54] <andypugh> You used an EZ-Out on something you wanted to keep? Blimey that was brave!
[14:49:01] <pfred1> the one great thing about ubuntu is it is easily googable
[14:49:11] <Jymmm> http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/
[14:49:14] <Tom_itx> it's in settings i believe
[14:49:22] * Tom_itx looks again
[14:49:41] <andypugh> Yes, googling "arch" won't work at all well.
[14:49:48] <pfred1> andypugh well it was either easy out or scrap the car
[14:50:18] <pfred1> I don't think they give you any extra head bolts
[14:50:54] <andypugh> Yes, but, EZ-outs are smaller than the bolt that broke. So, how are they meant to be stronger than the bolt that broke?
[14:51:19] <pfred1> less fatigued I guess
[14:51:32] <andypugh> Even if they are made of infinitely strong steel, the bolt now has a hole in the middle, so that is weaker than the bolt that broke.
[14:51:41] <pfred1> I've had them not work more than I've had them work
[14:51:45] <pfred1> then I end up retapping
[14:52:24] <andypugh> I am glad it worked for you, but they mainly snap off and leave you with a undrillable bit of hardened steel and spark-erosion bill.
[14:52:30] <pfred1> I think that is the object to weaken the broken bit so you can get it out
[14:52:53] <andypugh> It is much more reliable to drill the bolt out (and a left-hand drill is a good idea)
[14:53:02] <pfred1> when we used to break taps in the machine shop I worked in we'd chisel them out
[14:53:12] <pfred1> make chisels out of beat reamers
[14:53:24] <pfred1> you'd just shatter the junk out
[14:53:39] <andypugh> In your case, you could have made a guide that fitted in the top of the hole to centre the drill, too.
[14:54:18] <andypugh> Yeah, I have smashed up a few taps myself. It's easier with big ones than little ones, though.
[14:54:22] <pfred1> that is the key to make an easy out work center it
[14:55:00] <andypugh> I have one bolt head glued on on my lathe, with an M3 tap underneath it :-)
[14:55:01] <archivist> spark eroders are wonderful for unfortunate accidents, locals got me a smashed tap out last year
[14:55:46] <Jymmm> archivist: do they work for blind holes?
[14:55:47] <pfred1> they make tap extractors
[14:56:01] <archivist> Jymmm, yes
[14:56:07] <Jymmm> cool
[14:56:08] <pfred1> we'd only break out really little ones
[14:56:23] <atom1> andypugh, To set splash image preferences, you
[14:56:23] <atom1> modify the value of the preference keys in the /apps/gnome-session/options/ location. For example, if you do not want users ever to see a
[14:56:23] <atom1> splash image, set a mandatory value as follows:
[14:56:44] <atom1> is that what you're after?
[14:56:50] <andypugh> atom1: I should have said: LiveCD boot...
[14:56:55] <atom1> o
[14:57:09] <pfred1> probbaly nosplash for a boot parameter
[14:58:11] <Tom_itx> Jymmm send me one of those ball screw thingies
[14:58:14] <pfred1> eyah boot=nosplash
[14:58:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, you are suppose to MAKE one, the patent is at the bottom with drawings
[14:59:55] <Tom_itx> what do they use in power steering units?
[14:59:59] <Tom_itx> no ballscrews?
[15:00:40] <archivist> rack and pinion
[15:00:52] <Tom_itx> not the older ones
[15:00:55] <Tom_itx> were they?
[15:01:01] <Tom_itx> like GM used
[15:01:02] <pfred1> worm gears
[15:01:06] <Tom_itx> k
[15:01:18] <pfred1> a steering box
[15:01:28] <pfred1> pitman arm style
[15:01:30] <archivist> the old were a ball screw and nut
[15:02:16] <pfred1> andypugh on the grub menu hit e then add nosplash to the commandline
[15:02:51] <andypugh> I have tried that, but can't figure out how to get it to then carry on booting.
[15:03:01] <pfred1> hit enter
[15:03:44] <andypugh> "b" takes me to BIOS boot, esc takes me back to the grub menu, but not (as far as I can see) with the new options
[15:04:12] <WillenCMD> http://anonir.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/ubuntu-lucid-disable-boot-splash/
[15:04:20] <WillenCMD> i followed this to remove the splash
[15:04:29] <WillenCMD> works like a charm
[15:04:50] <pfred1> WillenCMD andypugh wants to disable live CD boot splash
[15:05:10] <WillenCMD> nevermind
[15:05:10] <pfred1> only way is to edit the grub command line
[15:05:31] <pfred1> nosplash on it should work I don't know why it won't tacceit it and just boot
[15:05:37] <pfred1> accept it even
[15:05:51] <andypugh> Actually, I remebered that I now have the rtai kernel on the boot volume so editing geub probably is an option.
[15:06:25] <pfred1> I like scrolling boots myself i hate splash booting
[15:06:42] <pfred1> I want to see the machine doing something
[15:07:07] <andypugh> I want to see the point at which the boot fails
[15:07:29] <pfred1> always helpful
[15:07:53] <Jymmm> http://askubuntu.com/questions/128751/how-to-boot-with-no-splash-screen
[15:08:35] <pfred1> being as how on a live CD the only thing you can edit is the grub commandline i can't see there being any other answer
[15:08:41] <Jymmm> http://askubuntu.com/questions/127130/splash-problem-with-ubuntu-12-04?rq=1
[15:09:47] <pfred1> although if you wanted to I suppose you could edit the iso and reburn it
[15:10:14] <pfred1> seems like an awful lot of trouble ot me though
[15:10:42] * Jymmm preference... quiet nosplash vga=794
[15:10:59] <pfred1> what does quiet do?
[15:11:45] <pfred1> this is strange I have no grub manual page?
[15:14:08] <pfred1> hmm this sounds dangerous grub-editenv - edit GRUB environment block
[15:15:05] <andypugh> Hmm, very odd.
[15:15:32] <pfred1> I think the last time I passed parameters to a Linux kernel I was still running lilo
[15:15:43] <pfred1> I don't think I've ever done it for grub
[15:16:08] <andypugh> It boots to the stage of loading USB thingies, then stops. But if you plug and unplug USB devices, it notices them and prints IDs etc to screen.
[15:16:11] <pfred1> just never has come up
[15:16:22] <pfred1> that is strange
[15:16:24] <andypugh> So it isn't actually crashed, it just isn't doing anything
[15:16:38] <pfred1> linux can hate on your without a net connection too
[15:16:47] <pfred1> but it eventually gets over it
[15:17:19] <andypugh> No, it finally dropped to BusyBox:
[15:17:24] <pfred1> sweet
[15:17:38] <andypugh> Not really
[15:18:04] <pfred1> if you ever want to make someone never run Linux give them a copy of arch to run :)
[15:18:15] <andypugh> check root= bootarg cat /proc/cmdline
[15:18:52] <andypugh> or missing modules, devices cat /proc/modules ls /dev
[15:19:16] <pfred1> did you md5sum your CD image?
[15:19:32] <pfred1> it sounds broken to me
[15:20:06] <andypugh> ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/3b23438d-c9d6-{etc etc} does not exist. Dropping to a shell
[15:20:21] <pfred1> hmmm
[15:20:26] <pfred1> I hate uuid
[15:20:33] <andypugh> Well, this is with the rtai kernel installed using the script.
[15:21:20] <pfred1> you can get around uuid by labeling your partitions
[15:21:45] <pfred1> not sure how that applies to live images though
[15:22:34] <pfred1> I wonder if you can label a CD I think you can
[15:23:44] <andypugh> I am not booting from LiveCD now.
[15:23:54] <andypugh> This is booting from the drive in the machine.
[15:24:26] <pfred1> have you changed your boot drive?
[15:25:03] <pfred1> no that doesn't make sense then you wouldn't be booting now would you
[15:25:36] <pfred1> reload grub
[15:26:17] <andypugh> how?
[15:26:26] <andypugh> Do I look like a geek?
[15:26:33] <andypugh> :-)
[15:26:54] <pfred1> boot off other media then you have to mount your system oh what the hell is it called
[15:27:08] <pfred1> having a senior moment
[15:27:38] <andypugh> Sounds difficult.
[15:27:56] <pfred1> nah it ain't that bad slackware used to just print the command on the screen for you
[15:28:02] <pfred1> it is one command
[15:28:09] <andypugh> Things you need to know: This is a Vortex86 machine, booting from a Compact Flash card
[15:28:24] <pfred1> linux don't care it al lworks the same
[15:28:42] <pfred1> this is driving me nuts i can't remember what it is called
[15:29:08] <andypugh> I have no idea wha you are going to suggest even.
[15:29:27] <andypugh> I think the problem is probably in the kernel options.
[15:30:04] <pfred1> it sounds like your fstab is cooked could be a grub config file too
[15:30:23] <pfred1> just give me a sec the name will come to me
[15:31:49] <pfred1> you actually enter it onto the grub commandline
[15:34:10] <pfred1> andypugh this looks like directions
http://www.av8n.com/computer/htm/grub-reinstall.htm
[15:35:57] <pfred1> still driving me nuts because this isn't even how I used to do it
[15:36:01] <andypugh> Did I mention that the machine still boots fine with the kernel it came with?
[15:36:18] <pfred1> oh then you neder ran update-grub
[15:36:22] <pfred1> never even
[15:36:37] <pfred1> OK this is a local kernel you built?
[15:37:09] <pfred1> you might have forotten to include your root filesystem support
[15:37:19] <pfred1> that is a popular one that stops you cold
[15:37:58] <andypugh> It came with kernels 2.6.30-vortex86mx-apm and 2.6.24-16-generic.
[15:38:09] <andypugh> The first will boot it, the second won't
[15:38:36] <pfred1> how did you install the kernel did you do it the debian way? which automates installing the modules and making your initrd
[15:38:44] <andypugh> I booted with the vortex one, ran the LinuxCNC install script, and that added 2.6.24-16-rtai
[15:39:17] <andypugh> But that won't boot either. Not that surprising considering that the vanilla unpatched version didn't either.
[15:39:25] <pfred1> check in /lib/modules make sure someone didn't stomp out the other guy's modules
[15:39:39] <andypugh> And AFAIK the LinuxCNC install script uses debs
[15:39:49] <pfred1> if you have two kernels same version they'll share the modules directory
[15:39:57] <pfred1> which isn't good
[15:40:12] <pfred1> because the modules will only work for one kernel
[15:40:37] <andypugh> It still boots happily into Ubuntu with the vortex kernel
[15:40:38] <pfred1> well there is a way to possibly make them work but it isn't the default
[15:40:51] <pfred1> because it is a different version has its own modules dir
[15:41:07] <pfred1> module stomping ia bad
[15:41:14] <andypugh> I don't understand
[15:41:25] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16
[15:41:37] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16-rtai
[15:41:49] <pfred1> 2.6.24-16-generic
[15:41:54] <andypugh> Before I installed 2.6.24-16-rtai it wouldn't boot from 2.6.24-16-generic.
[15:42:11] <pfred1> I think installing one stomped on the other's modules
[15:42:29] <andypugh> It has only ever booted from 2.6.30-vortex86mx-apm
[15:42:46] <pfred1> although hmm I'm thinking look in /boot at your initrds
[15:42:51] <andypugh> It still only boots from the vortex kernel
[15:42:57] <pfred1> because boot should run off initrd
[15:43:20] <pfred1> it shouldn't even go fishing in /lib/modules
[15:43:39] <pfred1> I think your initrd might be broken
[15:43:47] <cei> Is there any way to view the status of all parallel port pins?
[15:43:48] <pfred1> that is what loads the drivers yo uneed in order to boot
[15:43:58] <pfred1> cei yes
[15:44:17] <pfred1> there's an app for that
[15:44:40] <andypugh> cei
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Parallel_Port_Tester
[15:44:53] <pfred1> is that the one with the row of fake LEDs?
[15:44:57] <andypugh> Yes
[15:45:00] <pfred1> :)
[15:45:08] <pfred1> that is the app I was thinking of then
[15:45:19] <andypugh> pfred1: So, why will it boot one kernel but not the other?
[15:45:21] <cei> thanks!
[15:45:37] <pfred1> andypugh just look in /boot and see what is there
[15:45:38] <andypugh> I think it looks more like a problem in the kernels
[15:45:48] <pfred1> well that is where your kernel is
[15:45:53] <pfred1> it is in /boot
[15:46:08] <pfred1> but along with that will be your system map files and initrds
[15:46:40] <andypugh> You realise this is all gibberish to me?
[15:46:49] <pfred1> doesn't matter just go look
[15:47:08] <andypugh> I am waiting for it to drop to shell again
[15:47:22] <pfred1> I thought you had one good booting kernel?
[15:47:33] <pfred1> use it not the broken ones
[15:47:56] <andypugh> Now I need to decise which way is faster..
[15:48:05] <pfred1> you say you installed this kernel with a script
[15:48:31] <cei> andypugh, That tool shows my first parallel port, but not my second. Is there a premade tool that would show both or should I modify this tool?
[15:48:34] <pfred1> is the basic system Ubuntu?
[15:49:00] <andypugh> cei: Let me look at the files
[15:49:09] <pfred1> that thing has to be python
[15:49:21] <pfred1> all them little gewgaws are
[15:49:58] <cei> no python that i can see!
[15:50:04] <pfred1> it isn't?
[15:50:15] <andypugh> cei: To look at one port at a time, edit the address in the first line of the HAL file. (0x378 by defult).
[15:50:35] <cei> I see, thanks
[15:50:42] <pfred1> it sounds like they wish to view all at once
[15:51:04] <pfred1> can't pop up more than one at a time?
[15:51:04] <cei> meh, It's easy enough to switch addresses
[15:51:12] <andypugh> To view two at a time, hmm, I don't think you can without adding a second set of LEDs to the XML file
[15:51:19] <pfred1> ah
[15:51:30] <cei> If I really need it I can figure that out
[15:52:04] <pfred1> andypugh in any event boot your "good" kernel yo ucan fix the broken one better from it
[15:52:22] <pfred1> the beauty of Linux is you can always have a good kernel
[15:52:28] <andypugh> cei: You _could_ duplicate the XML with different names for the LEDs, then duplicate all the "net" commands in the HAL for parport.1.xxx and add both addresses to the loart hal_parport line
[15:54:09] <cei> THanks for the help all
[15:54:24] <pfred1> I have 3 kernels that are all the same version on this machine but due to revisions they have 3 unique names
[15:54:39] <andypugh> pfred1: What should I look at?
[15:54:46] <pfred1> you're in /boot?
[15:55:11] <andypugh> I have 3x config, 3x initrd and 3xSystem and 3xvmlinuz
[15:55:24] <pfred1> andypugh do you have an initrd.img for each kernel?
[15:55:32] <pfred1> OK 3 of each
[15:55:59] <andypugh> And a .bak of one of the initrd
[15:55:59] <pfred1> that means your revision names are saving you from overwriting
[15:56:35] <andypugh> I would have thought that I would have seen the problem before, on other machines, if the rtai-kernel didn't play nice
[15:59:32] <pfred1> if it was me I'd try update-grub again
[15:59:53] <pfred1> something went bad on the kernel install unless as yo usay the kernel is just bum
[16:01:32] <andypugh> Aye,
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=813090 looks interesting
[16:01:43] <pfred1> do this
[16:01:56] <andypugh> I think I am on grub1
[16:02:03] <pfred1> see what your uuid is in /etc/fstab then in grub.cfg:
[16:02:24] <pfred1> hmmm I doubt it grub2 is been around a while now
[16:02:33] <pfred1> I hate grub2 compared to 1 too
[16:02:41] <pfred1> but can't fight progress
[16:02:52] <pfred1> heck I liked lilo
[16:03:00] <pfred1> it was simple
[16:03:22] <pfred1> just grep boot /etc/fstab
[16:03:40] <pfred1> then grep that stupid number in /boot/grub
[16:03:59] <pfred1> grep simelongmeaninglessnumber /boot/grub/*
[16:04:04] <andypugh> Looks like that might be it
[16:04:13] <andypugh> That stupid number is in fstab
[16:04:19] <Jymmm> pfred1: We have these things called moving pictures now, with sound and everything!
[16:04:41] * pfred1 throws stone tablets at Jymmm ...
[16:04:59] <pfred1> I give you the 10 commandments!
[16:05:12] <Jymmm> pfred1: You misspelled 'Thou'
[16:06:09] <pfred1> it is amazing you can read gilgamesh today but we can't read an 8" floppy anymore
[16:06:25] <pfred1> media that has come and gone in my lifetime
[16:07:03] <pfred1> heck a little while ago I couldn't get 2 3.5 floppy drives to read a disk written by one
[16:07:31] <pfred1> I was in there with PB blaster trying to get one to run better didn't happen for me
[16:07:51] <Jymmm> 78, 45, 33, reel to reel, 8 track, cassette, cd, mp3, streaming
[16:08:03] <pfred1> I still have a turntable
[16:08:18] <pfred1> I even had it hooked up to my PC for a bit ripped some records on it
[16:08:52] <mcenter> Is there a forum post or wiki page that helps with steps for commissioning servos?
[16:09:02] <Jymmm> film, beta, laserdisc, vhs, dvd, blueray, streaming
[16:09:18] <pfred1> I never got a blu-ray
[16:09:25] <skunkworks__> mcenter: what do you have?
[16:09:29] <andypugh> mcenter: Several. None very good
[16:11:03] <mcenter> 5i25 + 7i77 with baldor 26M drives setup for +-10V velocity demand.
[16:11:47] <pfred1> andypugh I still think update-grub may fix your problem
[16:12:05] <pfred1> can't hurt
[16:12:48] <mcenter> I am trying to understand the whole HAL thing. I have read HAL manual lightly several times. The Integrators manual, etc.
[16:13:01] <pfred1> like me
[16:13:42] <pfred1> HAL is like any other difficult thing you just have to keep at it and slowly it'll come to you
[16:13:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/FeWVz.gif
[16:14:41] <pfred1> I need a girl that dumb
[16:14:48] <mcenter> At some point I want to do a little tuning. I copied parameters from previous motion controller, but I suspect they may not work because of different base period.
[16:15:45] <pfred1> k I'm out to go watch one of them dar movin pictures here
[16:16:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:17:13] <Jymmm> gn9
[16:18:46] <mcenter> AFK. going for a swim.
[16:18:59] <r00t4rd3d> 30cal bolt action pens:
[16:18:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/pTb2E.jpg
[16:20:24] <Jymmm> TSA wouldn't let these aboard because it said the word "anthrax" (seriosuly)
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/6708/images/
[16:20:46] <r00t4rd3d> Sanduskied:
[16:20:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/g534q.jpg
[16:26:32] <r00t4rd3d> someone king me, im crowning.
[16:31:14] <andypugh> mcenter: When you get back, give me a shout
[16:32:00] <andypugh> <snort> at chicken pox
[16:51:31] <Jymmm> what are those flat bearings that look like a washer called?
[16:52:25] <Jymmm> ah thrust
[16:59:39] <r00t4rd3d> MORNING
[18:03:38] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
[18:53:03] <JT-Shop> zzzzzzzzzzz
[18:57:58] <Jymmm> is this real/pure tungsten?
http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-14002083-10pcs_thoriated_tungsten_electrode_20_x_150_mm.html
[18:58:55] <JT-Shop> the pure tungsten will say just that, and is used to weld aluminum mostly
[18:59:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is pure better than alloy for strength as a shaft as apposed to a welding rod?
[18:59:48] <Jymmm> opposed
[19:00:35] <JT-Shop> dunno, I only weld with them
[19:00:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: do they bend eaisly?
[19:00:51] <Jymmm> easily
[19:01:17] <JT-Shop> never tried to break one
[19:01:31] <jdh> they bend
[19:01:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not break, just bend. as in tarp/tent stakes
[19:01:51] <Jymmm> pounding into ground, etc
[19:01:51] <JT-Shop> the smallest I use is 1/16"
[19:02:02] <JT-Shop> never tried to break or bend one
[19:02:03] <Jymmm> ah
[19:03:43] <jdh> we use .045
[19:04:28] <JT-Shop> 3/64"?
[19:05:01] <Jymmm> 3.2mm ~= 0.125"
[19:05:30] <jdh> they are marked in decimal
[19:06:06] <JT-Shop> what do you weld with such a small rod?
[19:06:18] <jdh> zircalloy tubing
[19:06:27] <JT-Shop> cool
[19:07:00] <jdh> 99 welds, replace electrode.. they look perfect when removed.
[19:10:28] <maddogma> I'm trying to get camview (from psha.org.ru ) running on linuxcnc 2.5. When I run camview from a terminal, I get a segfault and the following error in /var/log/messages : camview[1563]: segfault at 8 ip 00de46bc sp bfe19280 error 6 in liblinuxcnchal.so.0[ddf000+8000]. Any ideas?
[19:10:45] <Jymmm> heh
http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/1996/september/msg00141.html
[19:11:00] <andypugh> Jymmm: They don't bend. At all.
[19:11:13] <andypugh> And they are extremely hard to snap by hand too.
[19:11:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: pure or thoriated?
[19:11:45] <andypugh> Thoriated is all I know of, but the difference is likely to be negligible.
[19:12:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: Heh, glow in the dark tent stakes =)
[19:12:14] <andypugh> Thoriated are radioactive though.
[19:13:02] <Jymmm> andypugh: thus the GITD
[19:13:52] <andypugh> I can imagine that they would make pretty good guide rods for whatever it is you are working on.
[19:14:13] <Tom_itx> i was thinking of adding to my pendant but not sure if this was possible. adding buttons to jog at the Axis Manual control feedrate when pushed emulating the + - buttons on the axis screeen
[19:14:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just for tarp/tent stakes is what I was thinking
[19:14:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: thin, lightweight, strong
[19:14:53] <andypugh> It is about twice as stiff as the equivalent size of steel.
[19:15:08] <andypugh> But not even slightly light.
[19:15:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: at 0.125" ?
[19:15:45] <andypugh> 2.5x as dense as steel.
[19:15:47] <Tom_itx> it's pretty stiff but i bet you could bend those
[19:16:00] <Tom_itx> i have some plate i can't bend
[19:16:02] <andypugh> You would be better off with hollw steel tube.
[19:16:24] <Tom_itx> ti doesn't rust
[19:16:36] <Jymmm> Heh, I have some thick walled SS tubing 1/4"
[19:16:49] <Tom_itx> is my button idea feasable?
[19:16:57] <Jymmm> bbiab... foodage
[19:17:13] <Tom_itx> just had bbq chicken
[19:17:20] <JT-Shop> iirc you have to set the halui jog speed somehow
[19:17:35] <Tom_itx> it won't recognize the on screen feedrate?
[19:17:47] <Tom_itx> i just wanted to emulate the - + buttons
[19:17:57] <Tom_itx> using the on screen rate
[19:18:17] <andypugh> Boron is just as stiff as tungsten, but 1/10th the density.
[19:18:25] <Tom_itx> it's no biggie, just a thought
[19:26:13] * JT-Shop still tries to finger out how to execute a glade file from python
[19:27:07] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what are you working on with glade?
[19:27:29] <JT-Shop> just trying to learn how to make a simple screen
[19:27:38] <JT-Shop> trying to learn how to use Glade
[19:27:42] <Tom_itx> for a user interface?
[19:27:48] <JT-Shop> yea
[19:27:55] <Tom_itx> i thought it was air freshener :)
[19:27:58] <JT-Shop> I can make the Glade part
[19:28:08] <JT-Shop> sometimes that too
[19:28:09] <Tom_itx> never messed with it personally
[19:36:12] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Section 7.2 here:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/gladevcp.html
[19:37:00] <andypugh> The actions are functions in python file loaded at the gladevcp command line.
[19:37:29] <JT-Shop> I'm just working on a plain glade file atm not gladevcp
[19:37:35] <andypugh> But If you didn't need that with PyVCP, why do you need it now?
[19:38:18] <JT-Shop> I'm just learning glade stand alone with python
[19:38:58] <JT-Shop> ie a HelloWorld in glade and python
[19:40:25] <JT-Shop> I think I found a tutorial
[19:40:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop:
http://www.pygtk.org/articles/pygtk-glade-gui/Creating_a_GUI_using_PyGTK_and_Glade.htm
[19:41:11] <JT-Shop> i was looking at that one but it seems to be glade 2.x not 3.x
[19:41:19] <Jymmm> ah
[19:41:37] <andypugh> Maybe wait for mah to pop up?
[19:41:53] <JT-Shop> kinda late for him I think
[19:56:37] <JT-Shop> holy crap it worked
[19:56:57] <jdh> I had faith.
[19:57:23] <Jymmm> jdh: Then why are your toes crossed?
[19:57:25] <JT-Shop> about 15 lines in python
[19:57:27] <Connor> JT-Shop: What worked ?
[19:57:39] <JT-Shop> my glade python gui
[20:18:23] <r00t4rd3d> screenshot?
[20:24:16] <r00t4rd3d> i got bee stung in the neck today
[20:24:59] <ink> ouch
[20:58:52] <delkin> ora boas, maltinha
[21:01:02] <gmagno> good evening. I wonder what went wrong here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUA4xg7bWC4&feature=youtu.be Why drilling those holes was such a noisy and smokey task? You guys have any idea? Too much rotation speed?
[21:02:25] <Tom_itx> rpm too high feed too slow
[21:02:42] <Tom_itx> i dont have audio but that's what i see
[21:03:50] <gmagno> feed too slow?? Really? I thought the slower the better
[21:04:00] <Tom_itx> what rpm is it?
[21:04:07] <Tom_itx> i bet the rpm is way too high
[21:04:12] <gmagno> 20,000
[21:04:33] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:04:56] <toastydeath> spindle is way way too fast for that feed rate
[21:05:07] <gmagno> how much speed would you recommend?
[21:06:56] <toastydeath> it depends on how fast your machine can plunge
[21:07:20] <gmagno> I mean rpm
[21:07:28] <Tom_itx> maybe 1/10th that
[21:07:29] <toastydeath> ..it depends on how fast your machine can plunge
[21:08:47] <gmagno> sry for asking, but what do you mean by plunging? The z movement?
[21:09:01] <toastydeath> you can leave it at 20k rpm IF your machine can feed in Z at 40-80 inches per minute
[21:09:21] <gmagno> oh i see
[21:09:44] <toastydeath> the reason it's burning is because you are not going fast enough in Z
[21:09:46] <gmagno> rpm should be way slower then :)
[21:10:00] <toastydeath> so you can either slow the spindle down, or make it move faster
[21:10:34] <toastydeath> that looks like a 1/8" drill or thereabouts, and MDF won't burn at 20k rpm with that size drill.
[21:10:48] <toastydeath> provided it's being fed fast enough.
[21:11:07] <Tom_itx> one or the other needs to change
[21:11:14] <gmagno> yeah, more or less. It is a 3mm drill
[21:12:08] <Tom_itx> your bit is likely trash now too, use a different one
[21:12:19] <gmagno> broke :)
[21:12:46] <gmagno> it broke doing the matrix holes
[21:13:04] <toastydeath> how fast can your machine move
[21:13:21] <toastydeath> you need to be hustling along a lot faster with that spindle.
[21:13:30] <delkin> Don't forget the other bits that became completely flat and black burnt
[21:13:33] <toastydeath> the edge tear out will go away
[21:13:34] <delkin> gmagno
[21:14:17] <Jymmm> gmagno: Are you trying to "drill" holes larger thanthe bit you're using?
[21:14:46] <gmagno> toastydeath, 8mm/s i thnk
[21:14:48] <Jymmm> That is a very slow retracting Z too
[21:14:56] <gmagno> toastydeath, but we didnt feed at that rate
[21:15:48] <toastydeath> you should go faster.
[21:16:08] <gmagno> Jymmm, erm I'm willing to carve things like to one in the video, I consider a big hole as a continuously carving a circle several times. What do you mean?
[21:16:09] <toastydeath> at 20k rpm, you should be plunging with that drill at 17 mm/s
[21:16:11] <toastydeath> minimum
[21:16:43] <Jymmm> gmagno: Is that an actual drill bit, or one of those "roto bits"?
[21:16:46] <gmagno> toastydeath, I can easily reduce rotation speed. I will do that
[21:16:52] <toastydeath> ya
[21:17:11] <toastydeath> gmagno, the reason i am harping on feed rate is that you are going too slowly overall
[21:17:48] <toastydeath> slowing the spindle down can only help you in a limited way before the feed rate really does have to come up
[21:18:02] <gmagno> Jymmm, in the first part of the video Im doing a hole matrix with one of those wood drill typically used with
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.virginia.edu/art/studio/safety/sculpture/wstools/handdrill.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.virginia.edu/art/studio/safety/sculpture/wstools/handdrill.htm&h=702&w=808&sz=73&tbnid=cg9S7FNeJwNVvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=104&zoom=1&usg=__ErTUxloiUBEz6iVUnzTEtD5Jr6k=&docid=BzWWTB6SXzbR3M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=N3cD
[21:18:02] <gmagno> UKOqNej24QSHn4ykCA&ved=0CF8Q9QEwAw&dur=4649
[21:18:35] <gmagno> in the second part I'm carving something a bit more complex with a carbonide tungsten 3mm drill
[21:18:39] <gmagno> cilindrical
[21:18:41] <toastydeath> you can see the top cut tear out on the mdf
[21:18:50] <toastydeath> when you are carving/milling
[21:19:14] <Jymmm> gmagno: slow the dremel to almost it's lowest speed when drilling and give that a try
[21:19:25] <gmagno> toastydeath, hmm i see
[21:19:40] <gmagno> Jymmm, absolutely!
[21:20:17] <gmagno> I was being too conservative. I thought that it would be better to be slow feeding and fastest spindle rotation.. :P
[21:20:44] <toastydeath> other way around
[21:20:55] <Tom_itx> it was like rubbing two sticks together very fast. you were just generating heat
[21:22:25] <gmagno> Tom_itx, yup, got that
[21:23:49] <gmagno> btw, you guys have any reference sheet where you have these information about feed speed, rpm, how deep the drill should plunge... etc
[21:24:21] <gmagno> in terms of drill shape or thickness
[21:25:21] <Tom_itx> it's not specifically for mdf or wood but i ran across this the other day:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators#Drilling_Speeds_n_Feeds
[21:25:30] <toastydeath> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds
[21:26:28] <gmagno> great stuff!
[21:26:37] <gmagno> thank you!
[21:27:12] <toastydeath> beginners tend to focus on spindle speed, when it is really the less important of the two
[21:27:33] <Tom_itx> it's more about chip load than speed
[21:27:44] <Tom_itx> if the feed AND speed match it will cut nice
[21:28:52] <Tom_itx> some materials will work harden if you cut them wrong and cause premature tool failure
[21:31:52] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[21:31:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[21:32:08] <Tom_itx> those are a couple i've posted here in the past
[21:33:15] <Tom_itx> toastydeath what do you use for a chipload on wood/mdf?
[21:33:22] <Tom_itx> i don't cut much wood
[21:33:46] <Tom_itx> something around .006" per tooth?
[21:33:47] <toastydeath> i treat it like aluminum, but i don't cut it all the time
[21:33:56] <Tom_itx> maybe.004
[21:34:02] <toastydeath> anything from .001" to .010"
[21:34:23] <toastydeath> it will start to chip before aluminum does, so with bigger milling cutters i'll do .020 per tooth in alu
[21:34:32] <toastydeath> i won't ever go much beyond .010" in wood
[21:34:35] <toastydeath> even if it's mdf
[21:35:11] <Tom_itx> those small machines may not handle that
[21:35:40] <toastydeath> most machines will handle .001"
[21:36:27] <toastydeath> and a lot of them will handle .010" if you reduce the depth of cut, either axially or radially
[21:37:20] <Tom_itx> yeah .001 should work on just about anything
[21:40:33] <Tom_itx> what percent of the mill width do you generally cut on say a pocket cutout?
[21:41:39] <Tom_itx> in general.. i know each situation may vary
[21:42:04] <toastydeath> two options
[21:42:11] <toastydeath> 20% or less, or 80% or more.
[21:42:35] <toastydeath> those two options tend to eliminate corner burn and chatter
[21:43:33] <toastydeath> if the mill is under 1/4 of the diameter of the smallest corner radius it doesn't matter
[21:44:01] <toastydeath> but most pockets I did were square, and the mill had to pierce a wall and come to a halt before cutting the next wall face
[21:44:23] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:45:37] <Tom_itx> one of the noisest ones we did was a pocket cutout for the intake on a funnycar screw blower using something like 8" long cutters
[21:46:09] <Tom_itx> did the inside first then filled it with ballast and finished the outside
[21:46:34] <toastydeath> one of the coolest tricks I've seen involves very long cutters
[21:47:03] <toastydeath> you can take heavy cuts on a very long cutter if you nail a highly damped frequency of the system
[21:47:13] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:47:27] <toastydeath> silent, no chatter
[21:48:00] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't say it was silent :)
[21:48:38] <Tom_itx> it was a one off part so we didn't try to fine tune it for production runs
[22:21:16] <gmagno> I'm leaving, take care
[22:51:36] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[23:07:28] <tjb1> http://mashable.com/2012/07/08/nasa-mars-panorama/
