#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-13

[02:03:10] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:48:12] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[04:05:04] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: morning, i mig-welding the arcs of wheels http://s3.images.drive2.ru/car.journal.photos/x8/3860/000/000/0a4/90e/48cf2d69bc08543e-large.jpg
[05:42:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fcf_1342165406
[05:50:01] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: http://s2.images.drive2.ru/car.photos/x8/3860/000/000/08b/29e/48cf178e8aee40fd-large.jpg Heist truck from the Fast Five
[05:59:07] <jthornton> I think he passed the Missouri motorcycle driving test
[06:27:05] <iguru> Hi. I'm new here. I would like to pose a question.
[06:29:22] <jthornton> you don't need permission to ask a question
[06:29:42] <iguru> Okay, I'll just ask it then. Is there any reference to the kernal used in the latest release? I am having issues with a network controller as it does not seem to detect the network card.
[06:31:06] <jthornton> wifi?
[06:31:59] <Valen> some intel nic's need a poke before they switch on, though networkmanager should be doing that by itself
[06:33:36] <iguru> Unfortunately not wifi, its a hardwired nic
[06:34:29] <iguru> Atheros Communications Device 1083
[06:34:45] <Valen> you sure about that iguru?
[06:34:46] <jthornton> iirc wifi is more problematic than hardwired in any case all my installations it just seems to work
[06:34:51] <Valen> atheros does wifi stuff
[06:35:25] <iguru> I'm very aware of the setup. it is definitly not a wifi adapter.
[06:35:33] <Valen> no wifi in the box?
[06:35:48] <iguru> Nothing at all. All new hardware
[06:36:06] <Valen> not a laptop or anything like that?
[06:36:27] <iguru> Nope. Custom made PC boxes. New motherboards, cpus etc etc.
[06:36:35] <Valen> ok just checking
[06:37:11] <Valen> wrt your specific question, you can run different kernels, but you need to patch rtai (i think) into it and recompile EMC against the new kernel
[06:38:43] <Valen> what version of the kernel are you running?
[06:39:53] <iguru> 2.6.32-122-rtau
[06:39:56] <iguru> 2.6.32-122-rtai*
[06:41:29] <iguru> I'm using the linuxcnc distro. I have a feeling I might need to manual install ubuntu then install the linuxcnc packages. Unfortunatly I've been thrown in the deep end on this one.
[06:41:53] <iguru> I'm aware there is an issue because of the need for a realtime system.
[06:41:57] <Valen> i'd avoid that if you can
[06:41:59] <jthornton> the wiki has instructions for that
[06:42:11] <Valen> it probably wouldn't solve the issue
[06:42:18] <jthornton> but the LiveCD should be the same
[06:42:28] <Valen> the "easy" way around it is a $30 intel NIC
[06:42:36] <jthornton> Valen, do you think the hardware is too new for 10.04?
[06:43:07] <iguru> @Val I would agree but my boss has 5 of these machines already bought and expects me to make magic happen -_-
[06:43:09] <Valen> looking at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1677122
[06:43:43] <Valen> iguru: sure at $150 its not a cheap fix to put an intel nic in? ;->
[06:44:18] <Valen> it looks like going less than 2.6.34 poses some challenges with that hardware
[06:44:33] <Valen> looks like that guy has done the hard work
[06:44:35] <iguru> I have been researching hence me turning here. I'm not to sure the process that happens when attempting to patch a kernel. I would think I'd lose what I needed the kernel for in the first place
[06:45:38] <iguru> Ahh, I see Valen, I'm taking a deeper read now.
[06:45:47] <Valen> you would be patching the kernel that ships with EMC so it wouldn't be too bad
[06:45:49] <Valen> if it all applies
[06:46:05] <Valen> hmmm actually
[06:46:10] <Valen> no i have it backwards
[06:46:16] <Valen> that guy patched for newer kernels
[06:46:23] <Valen> looks like it should work ok with the older ones
[06:47:13] <Valen> yeah, if thats the case you just need to compile and load that thingo as a kernel module against the current kernel and it should spring into life
[06:48:04] <iguru> I must of poured over at least 15 sites, how I missed this gem I don't know. I shall give it a whirl
[06:48:16] <Valen> mmm hang on that one
[06:48:36] <Valen> i think that patch is for running the drivers with a later kernel
[06:48:44] <Valen> which you don't need
[06:48:56] <Valen> have you found the actual drivers provided by atheros somewhere?
[06:50:55] <iguru> I have not, or rather I haven't attempted to. When reading through the errors that people had with the nic in question I found that the solutions always pointed to a kernel change
[06:51:19] <Valen> it sounds like atheros at one stage provided drivers
[06:51:34] <Valen> but from kernel 2.6.38 they were built in
[06:52:59] <iguru> yes that my understanding as well.
[06:54:16] <iguru> My main concern was in altering the linuxcnc distro, I think though if I can get this to init without issue I'll be good to go.
[06:54:25] <iguru> or rather the kernel
[06:54:50] <Valen> my concern is going to a .38 kernel requires rtai compiling against it
[06:55:24] <Valen> although actually it sounds like it does
[06:56:31] <iguru> You don't think it can be installed without altering the kernel? We are running a kernel lower than the one mentioned. If I can get hold of the drivers then I should be able to swing it.
[06:57:01] <Valen> that would be how I'd prefer to do it if i was you
[06:57:17] <Valen> whats the lspci id numbers of the card?
[06:57:31] <iguru> sec, I'll have to find it quickly
[06:58:00] <Valen> no rush
[07:04:04] <iguru> and i'm back, are we looking for the vendor id?
[07:05:49] <iguru> The full ID would be 03:00 0200: 1969:1083
[07:11:40] <Valen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11142701&postcount=7
[07:11:52] <Valen> from http://tuxthink.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/enabling-atheros-ethernet-controller-on.html
[07:24:05] <iguru> I'm busy rebooting other system, will see how it goes so far
[07:32:43] <taiden> i'm about to build a cheap cnc computer, mine keeps crashing
[07:33:24] <taiden> what do you guys like for boot media? i'm thinking SSD or some kind of memory card
[07:33:33] <taiden> compact flash or the like
[07:34:07] <Tom_itx> i have a cheap ssd
[07:34:17] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[07:34:20] <Tom_itx> start with one of those
[07:37:11] <taiden> any reason that wont fit in my ATX case?
[07:37:26] <Tom_itx> i don't see why not
[07:37:28] <taiden> i have a case with a brand new 400w power supply and i dont really want to spend more than i have to
[07:37:44] <Tom_itx> you can get a case and psu for $40
[07:38:04] <taiden> i'm always so wary of the cheap psus though..
[07:38:24] <taiden> but if it works it works and the size difference would be nice
[07:38:38] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[07:38:45] <Tom_itx> that's what i'm using
[07:38:54] <Tom_itx> along with the mb
[07:39:56] <taiden> sata or usb solid state drive?
[07:40:07] <taiden> intel has a cute usb one that plugs into the internal headers it looks like
[07:40:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/SSD2.jpg
[07:40:15] <Tom_itx> sata is what i got
[07:40:41] <Tom_itx> not sure about compatibility with USB
[07:40:42] <iguru> @Valen You still around?
[07:40:45] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried one
[07:41:00] <Valen> no, i'm just a gigment of your overactive imagination
[07:41:11] <Tom_itx> keep it live
[07:41:14] <Valen> btw SSD's aren't actually more reliable than a spinning disk
[07:41:14] <Tom_itx> :)
[07:41:31] <iguru> I should of seen that one coming.
[07:41:35] <taiden> it's so cute!
[07:41:36] <Tom_itx> yeah i got mine just to try, i'm actually using a cheap hdd
[07:41:56] <Valen> that said SSD's are stupidly fast
[07:42:01] <taiden> they are
[07:42:03] <Tom_itx> that too
[07:42:04] <taiden> but i dont need the speed
[07:42:06] <taiden> was thinking of dust
[07:42:08] <iguru> Thank you for the assistance, after finding the correct driver download, didn't have any problems
[07:42:11] <Valen> if you can get a 32gb one for the same price as any size hdd i'd get the SSD ;->
[07:42:11] <taiden> but it hought hdd were sealed anyway
[07:42:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom_index.php
[07:42:16] <Valen> iguru: sweeeeet ;->
[07:42:16] <Tom_itx> my setup
[07:42:36] <Tom_itx> bill him $100/hr
[07:42:37] <Valen> make sure it supports TRIM though
[07:42:59] <Valen> i subcontract for somebody, I found what they were billing the client
[07:43:03] <Valen> friggin $180/hr
[07:43:10] <Valen> i was only billing them $70
[07:43:18] <Tom_itx> gtg
[07:43:22] <taiden> how much ram are you running?
[07:43:24] <Valen> catchya
[07:43:30] <Valen> I have 2gb
[07:43:39] <Valen> i'd put more in if the board could handle it
[07:43:39] <Tom_itx> you only need 2g i have 4
[07:43:44] <Tom_itx> 2 is plenty
[07:44:00] <Valen> atoms are kinda underpowered, more ram should help with "snappy"
[07:44:09] <jdh> underpowered for what?
[07:44:21] <Valen> just general use
[07:44:27] <Valen> i mean they are ok, we use one
[07:44:41] <Valen> just not as snappy as a core2
[07:44:47] <archivist> firefox can gobble a few gb
[07:45:09] <taiden> damn i was going to use it for FEA for flow analysis of the st pattys day dye in the chicago river
[07:45:30] <Valen> taiden: archivist does mysql compiles whilst machining stuff
[07:45:32] <jdh> gotcha. My atom is primarily a cnc controller. Firefox is secondary.
[07:45:53] <archivist> Valen, not at the moment :)
[07:45:58] <Valen> but then archivist is a crazy bastard ;-P
[07:46:09] <archivist> now that is true
[07:46:15] <taiden> :)
[07:46:31] <taiden> so HDD are sealed or no?
[07:46:34] <taiden> for dust reasons
[07:46:39] <Valen> sealed enough
[07:46:45] <taiden> good answer
[07:46:49] <Valen> don't put it in the middle of the mill
[07:46:54] <jdh> they are not airtight, but they have filtered ports
[07:47:46] <taiden> oh my cd drive is ata
[07:47:53] <taiden> will that work with the atom board?
[07:47:53] <jdh> heh... google says they are now
[07:48:06] <Valen> you want to keep the rest of the computer without dust
[07:48:19] <Valen> if the computer is ok with the dust level the hdd will be
[07:48:27] <Valen> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/06/25/attack-of-the-killer-dust-bunnies/
[07:48:48] <archivist> I was running a buildbot slave for a while on the P4 and did cut gears at the same time, only had 2gm iirc
[07:50:50] <skunkworks> I am using one of the first gen intel atom boards (dual core) for a media machine (xp 1GB ram) and it is on the edge
[07:51:12] <Valen> skunkworks: using vdpau?
[07:51:35] <archivist> this box Im on suffers from dust bunnies
[07:51:36] <Valen> also what media player?
[07:51:40] <skunkworks> heh - no. Just vnc
[07:51:52] <Valen> vlc?
[07:52:06] <skunkworks> vnc for remote access and vlc for playing
[07:52:43] <Valen> I got a zotac ion, with onboard 9300 nvidia
[07:53:00] <Valen> so i can offload all the video playing onto that
[07:53:31] <jdh> I played a tiny clip on my rasberry pi the other day. Looked fine.
[07:55:24] <Valen> I wish the pi supported hw accel of mpeg2 and some kind of lvds
[07:55:32] <Valen> finding displays is hard
[07:55:36] <Valen> (small ones)
[07:55:51] <jdh> for $35, don't expect much.
[07:56:17] <jdh> I plugged mine into my 56" teevee. Amusing watching linux boot
[07:56:18] <Valen> the board supports both of those, its just not paid for or not broken out
[07:56:41] <Valen> we have mythtv box connected to our tv ;->
[07:56:51] <Valen> mythtv = linux pvr
[07:56:56] <jdh> I try to avoid watching tv
[08:04:07] <taiden> any tips on sata cables
[08:04:11] <taiden> right angle or not
[08:05:07] <skunkworks> if you need right angle...
[08:05:40] <Valen> oh btw, most atom boards probably wont have a pata connection
[08:05:49] <mozmck> the right angle slows the electrons down...
[08:05:53] <skunkworks> heh
[08:06:09] <mozmck> some fly off the corner so you lose data :)
[08:06:14] <skunkworks> or the don't stop and shoot right out of the corner
[08:06:21] <skunkworks> heh
[08:06:53] <skunkworks> I think that only happens in high power RF
[08:08:27] <Valen> sata spec says that you should expect a bit error when you fill a 1Tb hdd
[08:08:39] <mozmck> Yeah, I'm kidding. I don't think it makes any difference for sata.
[08:08:53] <mozmck> one bit error?
[08:10:28] <taiden> haha
[08:10:43] <taiden> i really dont want to spend $220 on a computer
[08:11:07] <taiden> but i really really really dont want mine to crash in the middle of cutting product
[08:11:18] <Valen> as in if you put 1Tb of data to disk, one of the bits will be wrong
[08:11:28] <jdh> $220 sounds so miniscule for a computer.
[08:11:36] <jdh> but, I'd rather not spend it if I didn't have to either.
[08:11:36] <taiden> it is
[08:11:38] <Valen> $220 is a pretty cheap computer lol
[08:11:49] <taiden> it s more that i dont want to spend $220 on anything :)
[08:11:54] <jdh> Valen: only 1 bit?
[08:12:00] <Valen> aparently
[08:12:10] <Valen> presumably you would have another one when reading it
[08:12:57] <r00t4rd3d> today is friday the 13th
[08:13:05] <r00t4rd3d> MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
[08:13:26] <Valen> only for another hour
[08:13:29] <Valen> anyway bbl
[08:13:34] <Valen> or not
[08:13:37] <Valen> nighty night
[08:13:52] <r00t4rd3d> its 9am here
[08:14:06] <jdh> he goes to sleep early.
[08:19:46] <taiden> Tom_itx: did your atom board come with sata cables?
[08:19:55] <jdh> mine did
[08:20:10] <jdh> I have a hundred or so spares if you need one.
[08:20:22] <taiden> did it come with 2? just trying to decide if i need to buy any
[08:20:52] <jdh> 2. I only use the HD though
[08:21:59] <taiden> did you install from usb stick?
[08:22:22] <jdh> yes
[08:23:17] <taiden> hmmm
[08:23:40] <taiden> is that trivial?
[08:23:58] <jdh> sure. And speedy.
[08:24:07] <jdh> directions are on the web page
[08:24:08] <taiden> "burn" iso to usb disk and go?
[08:24:13] <jdh> yeah
[08:24:19] <taiden> neat
[08:24:36] <taiden> would it handle multiple partitions with different LiveCDs installed?
[08:24:47] <taiden> or is that a little too smart for it to handle
[08:24:55] <jdh> it is the same as booting the livecd off cd
[08:25:09] <taiden> i will skip my cd drive then
[08:25:15] <taiden> saves me $20. thanks!
[08:26:13] <taiden> so now i can get my computer tomorrow for $205
[08:26:20] <taiden> solid
[08:26:22] <jdh> sounds pricy
[08:26:28] <taiden> :)
[08:26:37] <jdh> mine was $79 + $49 + $15
[08:26:50] <jdh> I had a spare SATA drive though
[08:27:22] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/gp/cart/view.html/?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&linkCode=ur2&tag=yoac34bianbo3-20
[08:27:26] <taiden> that look reasonable?
[08:27:33] <jthornton> Tom_itx, see if this is what we talked about yesterday http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/gen05.html
[08:27:45] <jdh> can't see someone elses cart
[08:27:54] <taiden> awkward
[08:27:58] <jdh> jt: what kind of PLC's do you do?
[08:28:30] <taiden> im gonna spam 4 links
[08:28:31] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ANF6HW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
[08:28:38] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KB6Z2U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
[08:28:43] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041RSC94/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&smid=AVM1Z79WGIB6T
[08:28:48] <taiden> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001H0BA24/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
[08:29:45] <jdh> heh, I have the same. My board was cheaper, my case was more expensive.
[08:32:08] <mozmck> anyone here need a PLC? I have one I need to get rid of.
[08:39:31] <DJ9DJ> re
[08:52:43] <skunkworks> mozmck, why would I need a plc - I have linuxcnc ;)
[09:00:56] <JT-Shop> logger[mah], log
[09:00:57] <logger[mah]> JT-Shop: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-07-13.html
[09:02:24] <JT-Shop> jdh, mostly Allen Bradley, Panasonic, Automation Direct PLC's
[09:08:47] <jdh> I have some code where multiple rungs set/reset the same bit. The 'last' rung is supposed to win, but it doesn't seem to always be the case.
[09:13:00] <JT-Shop> bad idea to try and have the same output on more than one line
[09:13:35] <jdh> yeah. it's ancient code. Bad from a style point of view. Shouldn't make any difference to the PLC though
[09:13:45] <JT-Shop> I got some strange results last night from some ladder that gave me some experience
[09:14:02] <JT-Shop> depends on the plc, I've been finding out some are a bit different
[09:14:41] <archivist> the coder in me asks if on same line which happens first
[09:15:13] <jdh> single output per line
[09:15:31] <jdh> but, one rung can have multiple output lines (depending on the plc)
[09:16:29] <JT-Shop> yep, and some can have multiple outputs on one line
[09:16:43] <jdh> never seen one of those.
[09:16:54] <jdh> but, I have limited vendor experience.
[09:17:41] <JT-Shop> Panasonic you can do some wild stuff, but it is GUI magic as it all boils down to the basic ladder code
[09:18:16] <jdh> do you use grafcet for anything?
[09:18:55] <JT-Shop> Panasonic has it but I've never had a reason to use it
[09:20:04] <JT-Shop> err, no it has Sequential Function Chart and Structured Text programming as well as Ladder
[09:21:06] <jdh> I (coworker actually) had a similar problem with a Festo PLC. Turned out it is harder to store the program than he thought (ram vs. eeprom)
[09:21:15] <JT-Shop> as well as a couple more like Function Block Diagram and the all time favorite Instruction List
[09:21:36] <jdh> we have almost all GE PLC's, they have those too, but we only do ladder
[09:21:42] <JT-Shop> yea, those kind of things can really give you a headache
[09:25:04] <skunkworks> I tried having 1 output in 2 places in classic ladder.. It doesn't work well ;)
[09:25:41] <jdh> why not?
[09:25:53] <jdh> it should evaluate sequentially and do the right thing
[09:26:41] <anonimas1> that's why it's a good idea to have a output task with a ladder statement/st that evaluates them
[09:26:46] <archivist> er what, two outputs in parallel means a fight
[09:27:05] <jdh> I have never seen parallel outputs.
[09:27:06] <anonimas1> we do it that way all the time, in general paralell access on the same line means you are up for interesting bugs.
[09:27:24] <jdh> well, they look parallel, but one comes after the other
[09:27:47] <anonimas1> im telling you they dont evaluate properly all the time
[09:28:08] <jdh> inconsistent, or just consistently not what you expect?
[09:29:11] <anonimas1> it works, it's just not very safe, and if you have a multithreaded plc it's more fun :p
[09:29:42] <anonimas1> and sometimes a io can lock up in a unknown state until the next cycle.
[09:29:54] <anonimas1> because of being overwritten.
[09:30:17] <anonimas1> wrapping is easy and safe, and it also lets you override whatever you did if you need a software estop hooked up.
[09:30:58] <anonimas1> ie, so you have a single task on the plc override everything else for the io so you are 100% sure that when you request a stop you do not have a bit toggled in some sub-task
[09:31:34] <anonimas1> tho it depends on how you handle states in your project i guess.
[09:36:35] <JT-Shop> what anonimas1 said
[09:37:18] <JT-Shop> it's kind of like using an undocumented feature that may work a lot but may not work sometimes
[09:37:53] <anonimas1> hell even documented are sometimes not doing what expected
[09:38:13] <anonimas1> if you ever move to a newer plc, and they swap out the firware versions you might get problems also
[09:38:55] <anonimas1> i've been there and seen it happen
[09:43:18] <JT-Shop> yep, I just went to software upgrade hell the last few days with a remote plc
[10:21:23] <JT-Shop> found another bad collet in this cheap chinese collet set
[10:56:46] <ReadError> hey yall
[10:56:54] <ReadError> anyone made a solder mask before?
[10:56:55] <jdh> yall?
[10:57:02] <ReadError> yea, im in GA
[10:57:10] <ReadError> we speak like this ;)
[10:57:17] <jdh> oh. Ok.
[10:57:21] <Connor> *rolls eyes*
[10:57:22] <r00t4rd3d> hillbilly
[10:57:40] <ReadError> fine fine fin
[10:57:59] <ReadError> good day fellow gentlemen and scholars
[10:58:03] <ReadError> top of the morning chaps
[10:58:04] <Connor> I cringe every time I see the news put some back woods hick on the news.. even more so when its National news...
[10:58:18] <jdh> viva knox vegas
[10:58:22] <ReadError> well
[10:58:29] <ReadError> i speak proper IRL
[10:58:45] <jdh> you just think you do.
[10:58:49] <jdh> but it's ok.
[10:59:05] <jdh> (I think I do too)
[10:59:53] <jdh> I have seen someone post a pic here of a solder mask they did
[11:10:06] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:15:19] <Tom_itx> taiden i got a right angle sata for the dvd in that case i showed you
[11:15:30] <taiden> neato
[11:15:33] <taiden> good to know, thanks
[11:21:07] <Tom_itx> and i think mine came with one maybe two
[11:21:20] <Tom_itx> i got the extra right angle one though
[11:23:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom2.jpg
[11:23:18] <Tom_itx> i put the 2.5" hdd on the side but you don't have to
[11:23:33] <Tom_itx> there's room to plug the dvd in but it's easier with the right angle
[11:24:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom3.jpg
[11:24:20] <Tom_itx> there's the other side
[11:25:04] <Tom_itx> taiden those mb work good with linuxcnc
[11:25:13] <Tom_itx> i wish i had another one
[11:25:26] <jdh> buy one!
[11:25:33] <jdh> wonder why the price went up
[11:26:29] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-D525MW-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-w-Atom-525-CPU-/200542103383?pt=Motherboards&hash=item2eb13da757
[11:26:31] <r00t4rd3d> 79
[11:26:42] <r00t4rd3d> +7 shipping
[11:27:17] <jdh> mien was 79 from amazon. It's 89 now
[11:28:00] <jdh> still 79 from newegg
[11:28:03] <Tom_itx> i think i paid 74 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[11:28:16] <jdh> and free shipping
[11:28:35] <Tom_itx> the case is cheaper too
[11:29:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[11:29:20] <Tom_itx> ends 7/31
[11:29:21] <jdh> I have spare mem and another spare disk... I could get another one.
[11:29:44] <Tom_itx> get 2 and send me one
[11:30:00] <jdh> oko
[11:30:08] <jdh> you can paypal cost + shipping + 12.5%
[11:30:59] <Tom_itx> the check is in the mail
[11:31:17] <jdh> ok. I'll send it when it clears!
[11:31:59] <ReadError> amazon primed mine
[11:36:18] <tjb1> Oooh, my prime runs out in 2 weeks…better cancel it before they charge me
[11:42:14] <tjb1> http://hackaday.com/2012/07/13/3d-printing-with-a-delta-robot-that-seems-to-simplify-the-concept/#more-79544
[12:32:39] <Jymmm> alex4nder: yo
[12:33:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: You know that 12v mobo you got?
[12:33:38] <andypugh> Aye
[12:34:11] <Jymmm> Check out how they did the PS for this lil NAS box... They just used a laptop PS that "snaps" into the bottom, so you can use a REAL power cord... I thiught it was a slick idea http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/networking/display/patriot-javelin-s4_2.html
[12:35:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: Far cheaper and more available than a 1U PS
[12:36:31] <andypugh> Yes, that does seem fairly neat.
[12:36:42] <andypugh> I need to buy a PSU for my new toy.
[12:36:53] <Jymmm> bigger pic http://www.fcenter.ru/img/article/hdd/Patriot_Javelin_S4/180777.jpg
[12:39:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: This might be of interest... you could wire up the internal pwr jack to it... http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-5-x-2-1mm-cctv-dc-power-female-jack-connector-10-pack-44060
[12:40:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: that's a 10 pack
[12:41:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: then a piece of shrink tubing to "lock" it in place
[13:07:15] <andypugh> Not sure that gains me much: Look at the power connector: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vwArI3HyTGImfk2lfJtFQ9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[13:09:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: what box is that?
[13:10:27] <andypugh> That's the ncbox I mentioned the other day.
[13:10:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, I was talking about the intel 3/4" tall mobo
[13:11:08] <andypugh> That's got a normal jack socket for the 12V
[13:11:22] <Jymmm> gotcha
[13:11:26] <andypugh> I already had exactly the right PSU
[13:18:22] <JT-Shop> those green terminals are the power in"
[13:18:23] <JT-Shop> ?
[13:19:57] <JT-Shop> mouse has to be usb?
[13:28:18] <andypugh> Yes and yes, it seems
[13:28:34] <andypugh> 12 to 24V apparently.
[13:28:45] <andypugh> (the CD manual for a different machine says 15V)
[13:31:24] <JT-Shop> the email I got on mine said 12-24vdc
[13:32:09] <JT-Shop> he also said it was preloaded with Ubuntu but didn't say if it was the LiveCD or not
[13:37:03] <Jymmm> I can't tell if that is S-Video or PS/2
[13:37:42] <Jymmm> shows a kybd, so I'd say PS2
[13:38:06] <Jymmm> the round blue jack that is.
[13:39:00] <Jymmm> so the only usb is mouse, unless you get a PS/2 Y-Cable
[13:39:51] <andypugh> 2 more USB and a 25-pin IO header on the front
[13:40:00] <Jymmm> ah
[13:43:33] <JT-Shop> what is the 25 pin header on the front?
[13:45:30] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/220654
[13:55:09] <gene77> Hey guys, need some pid tuning advice. At creep, pid.0.error is about -1 on average, at full speed, just under 3.0
[13:55:24] <gene77> which way should I go with what parameter
[13:55:57] <Diony> Hi all
[13:56:45] <Diony> I encountered some problem with gladevcp. I want to run python mdi script (probe) when I push the button called "run" and simulate the probe contact with an other button. The gladevcp freeze during the probe python script execution.
[13:57:04] <Diony> Someone here already get this problem?
[13:58:16] <pcw_home> gene77 is this a spindle speed control?
[13:58:34] <Diony> no a z probe script
[13:59:20] <pcw_home> that was for gene77
[13:59:34] <Diony> sorry
[14:01:33] <gene77> Yes Peter. I just took the I gain from .01 to .02 which seemed to be just a hair much but usable.
[14:02:01] <gene77> I'm tryiing to fine tune my electronic spindle fuse :)
[14:02:44] <gene77> And I am usiing that error, integrated thru a lowpass to set the trigger points
[14:02:46] <Jymmm> gene77: fuse? use a .22lr
[14:02:49] <mhaberler> Diony: please post your Python gladevcp script on pastebin.com
[14:03:07] <Diony> hi mhaberler
[14:03:11] <mhaberler> hi
[14:03:28] <gene77> I don't think the rim will fit the holder :)
[14:03:46] <Diony> It is your script from http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc-mill.git/blob/HEAD:/pymdi.py#l198
[14:04:09] <gene77> we are getting some rain,whoppee!
[14:04:17] <JT-Shop> lucky guy
[14:04:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: where/how did you start the silk screening stuff?
[14:04:35] <pcw_home> make sure your 'indicating' fuse points the right way
[14:05:04] <gene77> :)
[14:05:14] <JT-Shop> LOL
[14:05:22] <Diony> Hi just call the "probe" function in the "on_probe_z_press" handler
[14:05:24] <Jymmm> <--- THAT WAY --->
[14:05:51] <mhaberler> so where exactly is the surprise - you c&p some code from somewhere and it blocks - so?
[14:05:59] <pcw_home> gene77: do you have FF0 about right? that will help the overall tracking
[14:06:07] <gene77> This is in reference to that drawing of a Margolin Target pistol I assume?
[14:06:16] <Diony> The gladevcp freeze until the probe finish
[14:06:23] <mhaberler> yes
[14:06:32] <gene77> FF0 is about 45, pgain 100
[14:06:54] <pcw_home> Yeah you shoud tune FF0 by it self first
[14:07:21] <Diony> and I don't know how to make it respond
[14:07:21] <mhaberler> so you expect it 'not to freeze', I assume
[14:07:48] <pcw_home> (assuming this is a voltage mode drive = Hbridge or just PWM)
[14:07:50] <Diony> yes because I use a sim-probe button
[14:07:51] <gene77> And I need to restrict the high end as it comes out of axis, it is asking for more than the controller/motor can do, so that can trip me off too.
[14:08:01] <Diony> on the same panel
[14:08:03] <gene77> pwm
[14:08:13] <Diony> (test purpose)
[14:08:31] <pcw_home> yeah so FF0 does your BEMF
[14:08:47] <mhaberler> Diony: this is some code I tried, and dumped. I do not use it. It just happens to be on the web, and I have no plan to support it.
[14:08:49] <Diony> Do you a an idea how to proceed?
[14:09:04] <gene77> set Igain to zip & tune with FF0?
[14:09:13] <Diony> ok no problem with supporting this probe code
[14:09:16] <pcw_home> Yes
[14:09:27] <gene77> I'll try that, bbs
[14:09:41] <pcw_home> (P and I to 0) FF0 is open loop
[14:09:47] <Diony> In fact the probe code works well from terminal
[14:11:00] <mhaberler> your best bet is to use an oword sub, and call it from the MDI action widget, see the manual
[14:11:39] <mhaberler> if you insist on using my python code, see http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc-mill.git/blob/HEAD:/emc_control.py , in particular the wait option on method g(self,code,wait=False):
[14:12:23] <Diony> I understand what you mean
[14:12:50] <Diony> but my question is about using gladevcp asynchnously
[14:12:55] <Loetmichel> sooo, got the SPS-chip... the second cheap TB6560-board is back to running, too... *note to self: must remember to change the Capacitor to a 50V type, so this wont happen again* -> http://youtu.be/ZyqRfDE__HQ
[14:13:23] <andypugh> Diony: Did we already talk about this, or was that someone else?
[14:13:25] <Diony> I already use this code through your probe code
[14:14:02] <mhaberler> so fine, what exactly does 'asynchronously' mean - you queue an MDI command, and then what?
[14:14:29] <Diony> andypugh: no It was me, soory to annoy you
[14:15:09] <mhaberler> if you read lines 92-100 of http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb/emc-mill.git/blob/HEAD:/emc_control.py you see how it waits for gcode completion
[14:15:42] <andypugh> No worries. It just means there is no point me trying to track down if the other guy figured it out.
[14:17:30] <educa> Dear people. Can somebody please tell me if there is something like a ramp angle built into linuxcnc ? I mean if I want to do 2 G01 moves after eachother or for example mill out a circle made up of 100 lines, then without ramping angle the stepper motors would ramp up and down for every single line in that circle, but because the angle between 2 lineai moves is so small it can actually continue at full speed without negative effect
[14:17:31] <gene77> That seems to work at 46, the integrated error stays under +- 1.0 until I hit the top of the controller at about 1100 revs.
[14:17:34] <educa> doet linuxcnc do that ?
[14:18:20] <educa> doet=does
[14:18:28] <gene77> Just specify the end point of the ramp for the 2nd axis on the same command line
[14:18:51] <gene77> it will draw as smooth as you can do
[14:19:02] <educa> nono I don't mean that
[14:19:10] <educa> look, if you make a circle with 100 lines
[14:19:14] <cradek> I'm not sure what implementation detail you're describing, and it doesn't matter really, but linuxcnc does constant velocity transitions between segments in situations where it can
[14:19:20] <educa> then theoretically thats 100 times a ramp up and down
[14:19:21] <andypugh> educa: I think you might be talking about G64?
[14:19:33] <educa> no
[14:19:41] <educa> I'll try to explain differently
[14:19:44] <JT-Shop> educa, G64 Pn
[14:21:19] <educa> I currently use winpcnc for my cnc milling machine and it has to ramp up and down of course, but if that controller sees that between 2 G01 lines there is an angle less then 30° , then he doesn't ramp down and up between these moves and continues at full speed
[14:21:33] <educa> and I'd like to get rid of winpcnc :) and use linuxcnc
[14:21:41] <JT-Shop> educa, G64 Pn
[14:22:23] <JT-Shop> educa, please read this page http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/User_Concepts.html
[14:22:45] <educa> G64 seems to change the effectiev path
[14:22:48] <educa> ok I'll read that
[14:23:16] <Loetmichel> educa: i use G64P0.05 (mm) and the machnine has sped up about 500% ;-)
[14:23:16] <JT-Shop> not G64 but G64 Pn
[14:24:16] <Loetmichel> and i totally can afford the 5/100mm tolerance
[14:25:07] <educa> So to say, if I have a G1 X100 Y100 F3000 followed by a G1 X200 Y110 then linux cnc will also ramp up and down the 2 moves individually, but with G64P0.05 it would not ramp down ?
[14:25:11] <Diony> mhaberler: It's hard to explain it to you, in fact I want to build a short of "mdi-script-deamon" which is running in background and use gladevcp to drive it.
[14:25:38] <Diony> and display results
[14:26:00] <mhaberler> what is the point? master supports queued execution of MDI properly since a few weeks
[14:26:37] <Loetmichel> educa: it will ramp down. but not to full stop, only so that it can drive a circle with 0.025mm radius on the edge safely
[14:26:37] <JT-Shop> educa, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/User_Concepts.html#_programming_the_planner
[14:26:46] <Loetmichel> and thats what it makes fast
[14:26:57] <mhaberler> the interpreter does have an input queue for MDI
[14:26:57] <Diony> The point is queued MDI is no interractive (apart Oword)
[14:27:03] <Loetmichel> (if you write P0.05 after the G64)
[14:27:08] <educa> JT-Shop, i'm reading it right now, looks interesting
[14:27:20] <educa> tnx
[14:27:27] <JT-Shop> ok, that is important to read
[14:27:49] <mhaberler> I do not understand what you mean by 'non-interactive'
[14:28:00] <mhaberler> what is missing?
[14:29:15] <Diony> you need to know exactly all your MDI command at the begining
[14:29:46] <Diony> queued it and during the process you can't change it
[14:30:24] <mhaberler> the execution of a block is atomic if you will - what would you want to change during execution of a block?
[14:31:01] <mhaberler> please give an example what you want, and cannot do now
[14:31:27] <Diony> I am writing some code to make transformer coil with EMC2
[14:32:09] <Diony> So I wound magnet wire layer by layer
[14:32:58] <Diony> I don't know exactly the size of the layer (depending on many parameters)
[14:33:28] <Diony> and need to be adjust "in live" during the first layers
[14:34:06] <Diony> I though code with G38
[14:34:22] <Diony> and virtual probe limits
[14:34:33] <archivist> as the wire comes from a distance, what does the diameter matter
[14:34:39] <mhaberler> how does the adjustment happen - are these computed values, entered by user?
[14:34:43] <andypugh> Are you sure it makes any sense to use G-code for this?
[14:35:34] <archivist> I can see where some ocodes could make an easy coil winder
[14:35:52] <Diony> The first layer is wound slowly without limits
[14:36:27] <gene77> One more question; is the pwm generator disabled instantly when estop is exerted, or does it ramp down, I have a lowpass element in front to control the startup accelleration
[14:36:48] <Diony> when the operator see the first layer is full, he set the right limit of the windows
[14:37:07] <mhaberler> you mean spindle stop, set size etc?
[14:37:11] <andypugh> gene77: It depends on what the pwmgen.enable is wired to.
[14:37:21] <Diony> then he wound the second layer and set the left limit
[14:37:50] <Diony> it is no spindle an "A" axis
[14:37:55] <archivist> Diony, you know the wire width and bobbin width, machine should know a full layer ish
[14:38:29] <mhaberler> I assumed a lathe, but fine
[14:38:37] <andypugh> This might be a job for something like WillemCMD has set up, a system with just a GladeVCP GUI and HAL components, but no G-code intepreter.
[14:39:12] <Diony> archivist: yes sure in theory, but in real the wire guide i not very precise
[14:39:16] <archivist> ols style coil winders have auto reverse that the operator sets mechanically
[14:39:52] <gene77> motion-spindle-on
[14:40:04] <mhaberler> the whole thing is a case for spindle synced motion to start with, not for a probe
[14:40:12] <mhaberler> like threading
[14:40:28] <andypugh> gene77: Then the PWM will stop instantly. The filter may take some time to run down, though, and the drive too.
[14:40:44] <Diony> archivist: yes you are right, but you need to adjust this
[14:41:04] <Diony> archivist: during the first layers
[14:41:12] <archivist> I have a coil winder rotting in the back garden :)
[14:41:15] <gene77> Sounds good, and yes that interface takes a while to run down
[14:41:16] <mhaberler> HOW: again, what happens when "the operator see the first layer is full, he set the right limit of the windows"
[14:41:35] <mhaberler> does she stop the spindle, enter some values, does a switch trip?
[14:41:55] <andypugh> So, how about a GUI with a button that populates a "finish angle" scrolllbox, that can then be tweaked up and down during subsequent layers to suit?
[14:42:04] <Diony> mhaberler: I use a simple "G1 X10 A36000" by layer (or G38...)
[14:42:10] <archivist> mhaberler, depends if inter layer tape needs fitting too
[14:42:58] <Diony> archivist: So how do you adjust you mecanicals limits?
[14:43:30] <andypugh> I really don't see where probe fits into this at all.
[14:43:40] <archivist> clamp on the reversing shaft hit by the traverser
[14:44:18] <andypugh> Or perhaps I do. You want an "interruptable movement" ?
[14:44:35] <Diony> andypugh: In my gladevcp I avec 2 float values correspondaing at 2 virtual limit switches
[14:44:37] <gene77> Now, if I set the pid.0.Igain too high, this will hide the load error, and I don't want to do that, correct?
[14:45:00] <archivist> traditional machines are foot operated to the hands can be working with scissors etc
[14:45:12] <Diony> andypugh: this virtuals sw are connected to the probe input
[14:46:07] <Diony> so i I saw that my limit is not good during winding, I can adjust them
[14:46:10] <andypugh> gene77: I don't think so.
[14:47:12] <mhaberler> Diony: how is the limit tripped. Do you push a switch, do you abort, press a gladevcp button - I do not understand your process
[14:47:13] <Diony> I am sorry for my bad explanations and english
[14:47:16] <archivist> Diony, add switches that are hit by the traverse s you know extents
[14:47:21] <andypugh> Diony: I think I see what you are doing. You want some G-code which is "expecting" to be interrupted?
[14:47:39] <archivist> then read those in gcode
[14:48:15] <andypugh> I think you might have better luck with a "while" loop making incremental small A moves, followed by the full-speed code.
[14:48:18] <anonimas1> I just bought a spindle speeder
[14:48:20] <anonimas1> 20krpm :)
[14:48:23] <anonimas1> iso 40
[14:48:39] <archivist> send it to me :)
[14:48:50] <anonimas1> shipping will cost more then i paid. and I need it
[14:48:51] <anonimas1> :)
[14:49:07] * archivist grmbls :)
[14:49:13] <Diony> mhaberler: the limit is tripped by virtual sw setted in Glade VCP (like sim-home sw in sim emc2 example configurations)
[14:49:34] <mhaberler> aha
[14:49:47] <mhaberler> and that connects to the probe input?
[14:49:59] <Diony> mhaberler: the virtual switch are here to reverse the way of the linear axis
[14:50:23] <mhaberler> yes, fine. Does this button connect to the probe input?
[14:50:26] <anonimas1> we'll see how well it'll eat aluminium with the seco 12mm insert mill
[14:50:31] <Diony> archivist: wath wrong with my virtaul sw?
[14:50:32] <anonimas1> it's rated for 40k tho..
[14:50:51] <archivist> I would use a real switches not virtual probably
[14:51:16] <anonimas1> 2.4m/min of feedrate -_-
[14:51:23] <Diony> andypugh: No the Gcode is simple (successive G38) I want gladevcp responding during the process
[14:52:13] <Diony> mhaberler: yes the 2 virtuals sw are connected to the probe input
[14:52:25] <archivist> Diony, use the gcode to respond, it is in realtime
[14:54:03] <Diony> archivist: I don't understand what you mean?
[14:54:13] <andypugh> archivist: His probe-input is set from the glade GUI, and that is busy waiting for the G38 to finish. But the G38 doesn't finish because the probe input never happens, because glade is waiting.
[14:54:53] <Diony> andypugh: exact! thank you for translating! :)
[14:55:04] <mhaberler> well fine. If you want to do it this way, you have two options: a) monitor the halui.program.is-idle pin to determine execution has stopped b) continously call emcstat.poll in a timer handler (see gladevcp manual for a timer example)
[14:55:41] <mhaberler> py emcstat is not well documented but it will tell you if the command finished, if the probe tripped, and where - I think that is in my code
[14:56:03] <mhaberler> I suggest b
[14:57:02] <Diony> mhaberler: yes, I don't have problem to use emcstat and emccmd
[14:57:03] <andypugh> I think the only problem is the Glade waiting for the probe to finish.
[14:57:20] <andypugh> If it just started it and returned, all might be OK
[14:57:39] <Diony> yes my only problem is making my Gladevcp respond and update
[14:57:50] <mhaberler> well if you just call command.mdi("G38 blabla") it should return immediately
[14:58:04] <mhaberler> the blocking comes from a poll/wait combination
[14:58:55] <Diony> yes but there is many G38... (one by layer until the number of turn is reached)
[14:59:16] <Diony> this can take half an hour
[14:59:38] <andypugh> So, why not handle the probe results in the code triggered by the probe-button press instead?
[14:59:48] <mhaberler> right
[14:59:59] <archivist> what I was saying too
[15:00:44] <Diony> andypugh: sorry I don't understand
[15:01:46] <archivist> I think we are all saying you have chosen the wrong layer to control the process
[15:02:14] <Diony> ok, no problem with that :)
[15:02:28] <archivist> by all means display progress that way
[15:02:33] <Diony> I just want to make my machine works ;)
[15:02:48] <Diony> what I should do?
[15:02:59] <mhaberler> look at oword procedure, and params 5070 and 5063ff
[15:03:39] <Diony> You mean make alle the script in GCode?
[15:04:31] <mhaberler> yes
[15:05:12] <Diony> and feed the gladeVCP though analog output, etc...
[15:05:20] <Diony> (status)
[15:06:43] <Diony> I am not fond of gcode control structure but if I have no other choice, I will try that
[15:09:03] <Diony> Ok thank you very much guys, I will do that.
[15:11:36] * JT-Shop hates sitting here waiting on GM's wheels to turn just to push a button for them
[15:11:48] <andypugh> Diony: Alternatively, don't use G-code at all
[15:12:21] <andypugh> It is possible to source all the motion commands direct from your Python into HAL
[15:12:21] <andypugh> ]
[15:13:29] <andypugh> I don't understand this error message " install: cannot create directory `/usr/bin/linuxcnc': Not a directory "
[15:14:19] <Connor> means /usr/bin/linuxcnc is a file, not a directory ?
[15:15:30] <andypugh> Ah. Yes, that makes sense
[15:15:54] <andypugh> I have given my ./configure --prefix= a silly prefix
[15:17:21] <JT-Shop> andypugh, did you see the BLDC + drive photo?
[15:17:40] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I did. It looks rather convenient
[15:18:16] <Diony> andypugh: control directly the motion controler from python?
[15:18:31] <andypugh> No, write your own motion controller.
[15:18:45] <Diony> andypugh: waow
[15:18:48] <JT-Shop> the enclosure is not dust tight
[15:19:12] <andypugh> Diony: The limit3 HAL component does all the hard work. You can just feed it end-points.
[15:19:12] <JT-Shop> other than that it looks like a nice package
[15:20:30] <andypugh> Your application does not need a complete G-code interpreter and machine tool control system, so why force such a thing to do your rather different job?
[15:22:14] <Diony> Yes you are right, in fact I use the "A" axis of my small milling machine and a stepper motor to make the spindle
[15:22:48] <Diony> And all the config is done for the machine so it's just a patch on my config
[15:23:25] <andypugh> You can keep several different configurations on the same computer. I can start my multi-purpose machine up as either a mill or a lathe, depending only on the config file.
[15:24:30] <andypugh> A HAL file can load the python gui, and that can be started by the halrun command.
[15:25:16] <Diony> yes like a stanalone program
[15:25:28] <andypugh> I suppose it depends on how many transformers you are making.
[15:25:29] <Diony> and forget about gladevcp
[15:25:50] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, did you get a chance to read that page?
[15:25:56] <andypugh> Well, actually, I would use _only_ gladeVCP :-)
[15:26:00] <Diony> andypugh: it is not for production, CNC is an hobby :)
[15:26:14] <andypugh> Well, in that case, do what gets the job done.
[15:26:20] <andypugh> :-)
[15:27:13] <Diony> thank you andy for your time
[15:27:25] <Diony> :)
[15:27:47] <andypugh> I have an example config that works along those lines. But it is only about 20% finished and doesn't work at all.
[15:28:05] <Diony> I didn't know the limit3 component, great!
[15:28:22] <andypugh> And is in a git branch other than the one I am currently compiling in.
[15:28:37] <andypugh> So, thinking about it, I can't really let you see it.
[15:28:46] <Diony> Do you have a public git server?
[15:29:06] <andypugh> No. I am not geeky enough to have figured out how :-)
[15:29:25] <Diony> me too ;)
[15:29:29] <JT-Shop> andypugh, do you think any 12v wall wort will work to power up the yellow box?
[15:29:54] <Nick001-Shop> Is there current info on etch-servo using an L298 H-Bridge motor driver
[15:29:57] <JT-Shop> mine is supposed to arrive Monday
[15:30:13] <andypugh> It supposedly needs 1.5A
[15:30:22] <andypugh> Let me see what I have lying about..
[15:30:22] <JT-Shop> I assume jepler web site is the most current info
[15:30:57] <JT-Shop> 1.5a at 12v?
[15:38:18] <Nick001-Shop> address for jepler's'page for this info?
[15:38:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'd think that would work if it's a lower pwr device
[15:39:09] <Jymmm> 18w is a tad low I'd think
[15:39:26] * JT-Shop is working via remote you will have to google it
[15:41:01] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, dunno that is what andypugh said
[15:43:15] <andypugh> It's booting from a 12V 600mA one. It didn't from a 15V 500mA one.
[15:45:16] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:46:40] <andypugh> Normal Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.30-vortexc86mx-apm
[15:49:30] <JT-Shop> 10.04?
[15:49:48] <andypugh> Looks like Hardy
[15:51:51] <JT-Shop> I just read his post again and he said something about the lan needing some drivers or something
[15:56:04] <andypugh> lan is working fine
[15:56:22] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:56:22] <andypugh> But: I am having a spot of bother with the root password..
[15:56:50] <Jymmm> <enter> ?
[15:57:07] <andypugh> I tried that. and dmp
[15:57:17] <Jymmm> If you are logged in, just su root
[15:57:32] <Jymmm> sudo su root
[15:58:15] * JT-Shop sits here with his finger on the button for GM
[15:58:34] <JT-Shop> if I loose internet will they shut down?
[15:59:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: YOULL CRASH THE WORLD!!!
[15:59:34] <JT-Shop> na, just the GM truck plant near St. Louis
[16:00:32] <Jymmm> GM? Oh, PUSH IT! PUSH IT REAL GOOD!
[16:00:49] <JT-Shop> but I think it takes an hour to reach the assembly line from the axle assembly line
[16:00:51] <jdh> I love my GM
[16:01:20] <andypugh> No, don't. As an employee of Ford, we need the suppliers to stay solvent
[16:02:16] <JT-Shop> the button changes the logic on a plc that is used to verify part numbers as they assemble the rear axles for the trucks
[16:03:02] <Jymmm> install Chevy Volt axles on the trucks!
[16:03:56] <JT-Shop> the change is a live one so we only have a couple of minutes to make the change
[16:04:05] <andypugh> Why not subcontract the tedious waiting to a neighbourhood kid?
[16:05:03] <JT-Shop> they are a bit inbred I think
[16:05:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: JT-Shop *IS* the neighborhood kid, err I meant yute!
[16:06:12] <JT-Shop> andypugh, are you going to install the livecd from a usb stick?
[16:07:18] <andypugh> I can't actually figure out how to do it..
[16:07:45] <andypugh> But yes, lets try a USB-stick boot. I have one.
[16:07:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[16:12:03] <andypugh> Jymmm misses the nature of the puzzle
[16:12:23] <Jymmm> GIT ER DONE
[16:14:23] <educa> Got a strange question. A couple of months I installed the livecd of ubuntu 10.04 from the linuxcnc.org site and emc was there by default. Now today I did the same install from livecd (freshly downloaded image) and emc is not there anymore. Do I have to still install it somehow now ?
[16:14:46] <andypugh> I an't choose USB in the boot order.
[16:15:10] <andypugh> educa: Same LiveCD?
[16:15:17] <cradek> educa: there is a bug in the cd that uninstalls linuxcnc (and the realtime kernel) if you have more than 4G (3G?) of RAM in the machine
[16:15:36] <educa> ouch
[16:15:38] <cradek> we will fix it one of these days but meanwhile you can work around it by pulling out RAM or unstalling while the network is unplugged
[16:15:40] <educa> its not same livecd
[16:15:55] <educa> so I better just pull 2GB of ram ?
[16:16:03] <cradek> yes that's the very easy fix
[16:16:05] <andypugh> You can put it back later :-)
[16:16:16] <educa> and it won't uninstall it once 4gb is back ?
[16:16:17] <educa> :)
[16:16:29] <cradek> no it's just during the install
[16:16:51] <Jymmm> wth kinda fscked up bug is that!?
[16:17:05] <educa> the strange stuff is that while evaluating is in LIVE mode all cnc soft is there, its just the installed version where it lacks and only 4 documents are left in the OTHER map
[16:17:11] <educa> anyway, i'll try now with 2GB :)
[16:17:14] <educa> tnx for info
[16:17:15] <cradek> Jymmm: it's a "feature" of the ubuntu installer
[16:17:46] <cradek> ... and we apparently never had enough ram to see it while testing
[16:17:51] <Jymmm> I have too much ram (resources), so let me remove (criple) things. gotcha
[16:18:27] <cradek> to be fair, it's usually what you want, but it messes us up
[16:18:36] <educa> hehe
[16:18:38] <Jymmm> sounds like your your overqualified
[16:18:48] <educa> I'd like to setup emc for a laser cutter using some custom HAL file
[16:18:53] <educa> lets hope it work
[16:18:53] <educa> s
[16:19:16] <cradek> bbl
[16:19:18] <andypugh> It boots from USB if you pull out the CF...
[16:20:54] <educa> While I'm waiting for that install just 1 extra question: When everything is setup correctly then I would like to be able to send out commands from the command line. Like I want to say emc /path/to/my/configfile mygcode.nc and then I just want my stepper motors to move and follow that .nc file. Is that possible with emc ? or do you always get a visual interface like axis ?
[16:21:33] <andypugh> Do I dare just install, or should I try to make a backup image of the CF? (Easier said than done, but might be possible over the network with dd)
[16:22:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: CF is electrically the exact same as IDE
[16:23:28] <andypugh> Jymmm: I don't have anything with IDE either
[16:23:37] <Jymmm> ah
[16:24:47] <andypugh> It seems to have got stuck after I pressed the "Try Ubuntu 10.04"
[16:25:02] <andypugh> I wonder if Hardy would be a better bet?
[16:26:12] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:27:47] <andypugh> Oh, it might be getting there
[16:32:01] <andypugh> And it booted.
[16:32:28] <andypugh> I can't run the latency test though. insmod is getting "operation not permitted". Is that usual with a liveCD boot?
[16:37:32] <JT-Shop> no
[16:39:12] <educa> I can confirm that with 2GB ram installed I indeed get emc now
[16:39:14] <educa> thank you
[17:08:46] <andypugh> PCW?
[17:09:40] <andypugh> I just downloaded the latest hm2 source from your site, and it seems to not want to work: ERROR:HDLParsers:709 - "/home/andypugh/hm2-firmware/sserial.vhd" Line 263. sslbp is not an entity name
[17:10:36] <andypugh> Is that in the middle of a reaorganisation or something?
[17:11:01] <PCW> No
[17:11:37] <andypugh> How odd
[17:11:40] <PCW> Oh did you run the tcl script to set up?
[17:12:22] <andypugh> twiddle was also unhappy: twiddle.vhd" Line 194. DumbAss8sqw is not an entity name
[17:12:37] <andypugh> No,
[17:13:07] <PCW> those mean (I think) that the source is not bound to the build process
[17:13:41] <andypugh> Well, there is no sslbp.vhd or DumbAss8sqw.vhd in there
[17:14:49] <PCW> (what you do do in the GUI with "add source")
[17:15:34] <PCW> no but there are entities sslbp and DumbAss8sw
[17:16:27] <PCW> which require that the source containing those entities be present
[17:16:39] <andypugh> I have previously just used "make". How do I invoke the GUI?
[17:16:45] <PCW> sslbp is in sslbprom.vhd
[17:16:55] <andypugh> ls
[17:18:36] <PCW> I think the linuxCNC build scripts would need a fair amount of work to build the current stuff
[17:20:32] <andypugh> I needed the up-to-date sserial
[17:23:34] <andypugh> So, can I expect to build firmwares with the files downloaded from mesanet?
[17:28:20] <PCW> with the GUI method and the tcl script to startup,yes
[17:29:34] <andypugh> You seem to be mistaking me for a Linux Geek. What GUI method and which tcl script?
[17:30:00] <andypugh> exit
[17:30:04] <andypugh> Oops
[17:30:48] <PCW> GUI is Webpacks/ISEs GUI (Project Navigator)
[17:31:18] <andypugh> Ah!
[17:32:25] <andypugh> I pretty much forgot that there was more to that than just a compiler
[17:36:33] <PCW> Im not sure how much work is involved getting LinuxCNCs source build scripts up-to -date
[17:36:48] <Connor> jdh: You around ?
[17:36:58] <andypugh> I am not sure I have the GUI available either
[17:37:03] <PCW> theres more than 100 pinout files now though
[17:37:21] <andypugh> I spotted that the download includes an Andy1.bit :-)
[17:37:46] <PCW> thats probably a hitchhiker
[17:38:55] <andypugh> I am trying to make an SVSSUA7_8_1_7i39.BIT :-)
[17:39:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: Is that by Hyunda or Izusu ?
[17:39:58] <Tom_itx> PCW on the 7i43 / 7i47 do you happen to know what pins the 2nd encoder maps to when it's enabled? i need to do some rewiring but i haven't enabled it just yet
[17:40:24] <andypugh> (which would be that andy1.vhd with a uart on 22 and 23.
[17:41:47] <andypugh> Tom_itx: what's the bitfile name? I have the folder open here
[17:42:26] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did i get a chance to read which page? ... catching up on the logs...
[17:43:20] <PCW> 7I47 pins?
[17:43:38] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:43:48] <Tom_itx> umm andypugh the one i posted yesterday?
[17:44:05] <andypugh> I have slept since :-)
[17:44:15] <Tom_itx> me too, i gotta look
[17:44:51] <Tom_itx> well crap, i can't get to it right now
[17:45:11] <PCW> tom_itx 7I47 manual page3 should be right for the default bitfile
[17:45:25] <Tom_itx> ok
[17:46:00] <Tom_itx> 7i43-4/SVST2_4_7I47B.BIT
[17:46:55] <PCW> Yeah pretty much any 7I47 config will have at least the first encoders in standard places
[17:47:28] <Tom_itx> ahh ok, i see it on the board layout
[17:47:37] <PCW> (some have sserial/uarts ports but those steal the last encoder bits)
[17:48:12] <Tom_itx> would it be wise to put a gpio board on the 2nd port or just use the pins directly as gpio?
[17:48:39] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, this page v
[17:48:41] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/gen05.html
[17:49:24] <Tom_itx> oh, no i haven't seen that one yet
[17:49:24] <PCW> if you use the pins directly and connect any to - voltages or voltages above about 8V you will have a hot FPGA chip and a dead 7I43
[17:49:27] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Encoder.01 is gpio 10/12/14
[17:49:31] <JT-Shop> andypugh, you will be proud that I didn't shut GM down with my PLC
[17:49:33] <Tom_itx> thanks andy
[17:49:56] <andypugh> Which is probably pins 20/24/28?
[17:50:50] <Tom_itx> 21 25 29
[17:50:58] <Tom_itx> even are gnd
[17:51:08] <Tom_itx> but you knew that
[17:51:30] <Tom_itx> bak in a while
[17:51:41] <andypugh> The sequence is a little unexpected. stepgen0-stepgen1-enc0/enc2 interleaved-enc1/enc3 interleaved-stepgen2-stpgen3-pwm1-pwm2
[17:52:11] <PCW> it untangles the screwy 7I47 pinout
[17:52:40] <PCW> but I/0 10,12,14 are ENC1 on the 7I47 board picture
[17:53:22] <andypugh> Which does leave me wondering what the question was,
[17:54:10] <PCW> Yeah since the bitfile has 4 encoders, they are in the expected places
[17:54:24] <PCW> (on the 7I47)
[17:58:11] <PCW> Now I have to figure out why my LBP16 parser corrupts all of memory
[17:58:12] <PCW> ARP and ICMP echo work fine with the new 16 bit processor/code,
[17:58:14] <PCW> but parse any UDP packet and memory get scrambled
[17:58:16] <PCW> probably a remaining byte/word error of some kind or an out of control loop
[18:18:46] <Tom_itx> heh JT-Shop did you write that for me :)
[18:21:31] <Tom_itx> but you didn't quite finish it
[18:24:43] * Tom_itx gets out his roadmap so he can do some rewiring
[18:31:12] * Jymmm founds Tom_itx's wiring diagram... http://j-walkblog.com/images2/vietnamcables.jpg
[18:32:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: its the black one
[18:34:26] <Tom_itx> what set of codes were they using when they wired that?
[18:35:27] <Jymmm> If it sticks, it fits!
[19:27:18] <andypugh> Must resist: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10351
[19:28:23] <andypugh> Hi WillenCMD
[19:28:39] <pfred1> andypugh don't buy floor sweepings
[19:29:07] <pfred1> I just bought 3 more organizer drawer units
[19:29:13] <WillenCMD> pfred1, do you have a schematic of your stepper driver you made?
[19:29:25] <pfred1> WillenCMD yeah but it isn't worth building
[19:29:40] <pfred1> you can buy a chinese board cheaper
[19:30:01] <pfred1> there is a new toshiba chip out now that looks even cooler
[19:30:23] <pfred1> http://simewang007.en.ec21.com/Toshiba_Thb6064ah_Engraver_Machine_Step--5804224_5887880.html
[19:30:34] <pfred1> thing is a hawt rod!
[19:31:41] <pfred1> 4.5 a output current 50 V
[19:31:53] * pfred1 wants!
[19:32:35] <WillenCMD> i kind of want to experiment with stepper timing/encoder feedback via a microcontroller so i want to through together a basic mosfet drive circuit
[19:33:17] <pfred1> WillenCMD but if you want to check my drivers out for laughs you can see them here http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[19:34:03] <pfred1> ah then you want something like an http://www.spickles.org/projects/lmd18200/
[19:34:09] <pfred1> they're hawt
[19:34:45] <pfred1> BTW don't believe that page those chips are pretty expensive as far as chips go
[19:35:08] <pfred1> they have 4,000 mosfets in them though
[19:35:27] <pfred1> so I guess if you break it down that way then they're pretty cheap
[19:35:58] <pfred1> neat how they do current control they sense 2 mosfets
[19:36:42] <pfred1> then figure the other 3,998 are doing basically the same thing
[19:37:57] <pfred1> WillenCMD I think the LMD18200 is the hot tamalie when it comes to mosfet H bridges
[19:39:44] <r00t4rd3d> drilling holes for pillow blocks is a pain in the ass
[19:41:44] <r00t4rd3d> i can never get them perfect
[19:52:42] <WillenCMD> i broke 6 taps, driling holes for all the linear rails in the very first machine i designed
[19:52:55] <WillenCMD> tapping holes i should say not drilling
[19:53:29] <WillenCMD> it was 1.25 precision ground 1018 stock, and i couldn't get the right chip to come off.
[19:54:10] <WillenCMD> finally with due process i tweaked the speeds switched to peck tapping and found the sweet spot
[20:06:22] <andypugh> I normally use a cordless drill :-)
[20:10:29] <r00t4rd3d> i just took a ink pad and pushed a pillow block on it then onto a index card :)
[20:10:35] <r00t4rd3d> perfect template
[20:13:54] <WillenCMD> lol cordless drill through 1.25 steel plate?
[20:14:25] <r00t4rd3d> a black and decker could do that
[20:14:28] <andypugh> Depends on the tap size
[20:14:33] <WillenCMD> 10-24
[20:14:41] <WillenCMD> so 5mm
[20:14:46] <andypugh> No problem
[20:15:07] <WillenCMD> but 36 holes
[20:15:16] <r00t4rd3d> 1 beer per hole
[20:15:17] <andypugh> Though it makes no sense to tap full-depth
[20:15:22] <WillenCMD> lol
[20:15:33] <WillenCMD> i like that method
[20:15:59] <r00t4rd3d> then in the end when its all fucked up your too drunk to care
[20:16:27] <WillenCMD> yeah, it would of been alot more fun milling out broken taps also
[20:17:05] <andypugh> I <3 my Ryobi LiIon drill. It cheerfully pushes a 55mm holesaw through 5mm of steel, then the same battery in the circular saw can cut through 6" of 1" aluminium bar. And still show amber on the charge indicator.
[20:17:32] <WillenCMD> was it free also?
[20:17:39] <WillenCMD> :)
[20:17:48] <andypugh> No, in fact he battery alone is $100
[20:18:13] <r00t4rd3d> all the batteries are 100
[20:18:16] <r00t4rd3d> no matter the brand
[20:18:36] <WillenCMD> thats why i use earth batteries and solar pannels, with an hho genartor
[20:18:43] <WillenCMD> :)
[20:19:01] <WillenCMD> kidding of course
[20:19:11] <r00t4rd3d> tree hugger
[20:20:05] <WillenCMD> i did have some interesting experience's with hho in my beginning years of electronics
[20:20:27] <WillenCMD> including a really nice explosion in the guest bedroom
[20:21:12] <r00t4rd3d> is that where your penis went?
[20:21:36] <andypugh> hho? You don't mean hhoo?
[20:22:45] <WillenCMD> no my wife took my penis way before that
[20:22:53] <WillenCMD> along with my man card
[20:23:24] <WillenCMD> its not that bad though, i don't have to make any of my own decision's anymore, and its not as sweaty in the groin region
[20:23:27] <ReadError> atleast you still have your ghetto pass and street cred
[20:25:03] <WillenCMD> true
[20:29:20] <WillenCMD> im ready for winter
[20:29:38] <WillenCMD> i don't feel so bad sitting inside working on projects :)
[20:40:06] <andypugh> I know that if you are going to apologise before posting something, you probably shouldn't but I can;t resist:
[20:40:09] <andypugh> An Englishman, a Scotsman, an Irishman, a Welshman, a Latvian, a Turk, a German, an Indian, several Americans (including an Hawaiian and an Alaskan), an Argentinean, a Dane, an Australian, a Slovak, an Egyptian, a  Japanese, a Moroccan, a Frenchman, a New Zealander, a Spaniard, a Russian, a Guatemalan, a Colombian, a Pakistani, a Malaysian, a Croatian, a Uzbek, a Cypriot, a Pole, a Lithuanian, a Chinese, a Tibetan, a Sr
[20:40:09] <andypugh> Lankan, a Lebanese, a Cayman Islander, a Ugandan, a Vietnamese, a Korean, a Kenyan, a Uruguayan, a Czech, an Icelander, a Mexican, a Finn, a Honduran, a Panamanian, an Andorran, a Moroccan, an Israeli, a Palestinian, a Venezuelan, an Iranian, a Fijian, a Peruvian, an Estonian, a Syrian, a Brazilian, a Portuguese, a Liechtensteiner, a Mongolian, a Hungarian, a Canadian, a Moldovan, a Haitian, a Norfolk Islander, a Macedon
[20:40:11] <andypugh> a Bolivian, a Cook Islander, a Tajikistani, a Samoan, an Armenian, an Aruban, an Albanian, a Greenlander, a Micronesian, a Virgin Islander, a Georgian, a Bahamian, a Belarusian, a Cuban, a Tongan, a Cambodian, a Manxman, a Qatari, an Azerbaijani, a Romanian, a Chilean, a Jamaican, a Filipino, a Ukrainian, a Dutchman, an Ecuadorian, a Costa Rican, a Swede, a Bulgarian, a Serb, a Swiss, a Greek, a Belgian, a Singaporean, a
[20:40:12] <andypugh> Italian and a Norwegian all walk into a very fine restaurant.
[20:40:12] <andypugh> “I’m sorry,” says the maître d’, after scrutinizing the group. “You can’t come in here without a Thai.”
[20:58:09] <Connor> andypugh: You think it's possible to use 3/4" of travel from my 1" tavel on cylinder to somehow engage the bottom plate (below the belleville washers) so that the quill can be used?
[20:58:25] <Connor> I only need 1/4" travel to compress the washers..
[20:59:06] <andypugh> Probably.
[20:59:22] <andypugh> I am not entirely clear on the question.
[20:59:50] <andypugh> Can you mount the cylinder to the quill and make the question moot?
[21:01:02] * Tom_itx wonders if andypugh was loading the ark or just what
[21:01:04] <Connor> okay. Most designs I've seen.. use a plate under the belleville so that when to cylinder compresses against the draw bar, it lifts the plate and thus pinches the washers closed.. problem is.. the plate would prevent the quill from being able to lower.
[21:02:19] <Connor> I was thinking of using something like a keyhole looking plate that in one position, is small enough to trap the washers.. in the other, would allow clearance for them.
[21:03:19] <Connor> Instead of using a extra device like a solenoid etc to engage that plate.. I was thinking of some way to use the extra travel of the cylinder before it reaches the top of the draw bar.
[21:04:07] <Connor> Not sure about mounting the cylinder to the quill...
[21:04:50] <andypugh> Yes, I think you could use a spring on the plunger to the plate so that the first motion somehow scissored the plate round the underside of the pinch disc thingy.
[21:05:31] <andypugh> Actually, a keyhole-shaped hole is probably what is required
[21:06:11] <andypugh> Plan B would be for quill-motion to disengage the plate.
[21:07:19] <andypugh> A simple lever operated by the top of the quill could slide the keyhole plate accross.
[21:08:39] <Connor> And maybe I'm nuts for wanting to maintain the quill...
[21:10:30] <Valen> we used to have a quill
[21:10:37] <Valen> we don't miss it
[21:10:57] <Connor> I was thinking of maybe a wedge shaped design that as the plunger went down for the first 3/4" it would cam the keyhole plate into place.
[21:14:19] <Connor> What's the most efficient way to convert vertical force to a horizontal force?
[21:17:29] <WillenCMD> worm drive
[21:17:53] <andypugh> djdelorie: On #sparkfun: Shadyman: I'll still have to hunt down a gEDA CC license logo and an OSHW logo
[21:18:16] <WillenCMD> i would be happy to supply you with gears if needed
[21:18:23] <djdelorie> easy enough to convert logos using psedit
[21:18:38] <djdelorie> I have a geda logo for geda already though
[21:18:48] <djdelorie> but you have to regenerate it for each size you want
[21:19:00] <ReadError> djdelorie, are you the guy that had those purple pcbs made?
[21:19:09] <djdelorie> which "those" pcbs?
[21:19:11] <ReadError> it was someone here
[21:19:13] <Connor> WillenCMD: How do you figure a Worm gear can convert vertical force to horizontal ? no rotation involved...
[21:19:15] <ReadError> some motor controller pcb
[21:19:20] <djdelorie> yup, those are mine
[21:19:22] <ReadError> and they had that cheap place that makes em
[21:19:27] <ReadError> what was that site again big guy?
[21:19:30] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/pcb/geda-logo.eps
[21:19:46] <ReadError> well the site that made em
[21:19:53] <djdelorie> see it used on the back-side image of http://www.delorie.com/electronics/rulz/
[21:20:13] <ReadError> hmm
[21:20:16] <djdelorie> ReadError: see http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[21:20:19] <ReadError> it was the guy with the big wooden cnc
[21:20:21] <ReadError> is that you?
[21:20:27] <djdelorie> google for "dorkbot pcb"
[21:20:28] <ReadError> my memory fades me
[21:21:31] <djdelorie> andypugh: should I join #sparkfun or is that all you need? ;-)
[21:21:33] <ReadError> ahh yes thats the site
[21:22:29] <andypugh> You could just /join, give a link, and run away
[21:23:43] <Tom_itx> heh i've done that :)
[21:25:21] <taiden> what do we think of belt driven cnc routers
[21:25:32] <taiden> i can't seem to find any hard data on belt elongation under load
[21:25:45] <andypugh> If I was building one, it would be belt driven
[21:26:21] <taiden> on paper belts are incredible except for elongation and cyclical motion at velocity changes
[21:26:25] <andypugh> Ah, well, but, yoiu see, I would steal the brilliant Bell-Everman idea.
[21:26:57] <taiden> but again i haven't seen any real data on that, or any good anecdotes
[21:27:04] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/OdJoVh6DRPA
[21:27:34] <taiden> jesus
[21:27:59] <taiden> oh is it a straight belt
[21:28:13] <taiden> cut and wrapped around the motor shaft with a timing pulley on it
[21:28:37] <andypugh> No, the clever part is the second beld bonded to the frame
[21:28:58] <taiden> 2 thou positioning error
[21:29:02] <taiden> no load
[21:29:34] <taiden> i cant decide if that's good or bad
[21:30:16] <taiden> oh thats pretty smart
[21:30:19] <taiden> i like that design
[21:30:21] <archivist> Connor, a bell crank lever, hydraulics, pneumatics
[21:31:05] <andypugh> For a router? Brilliant. For a watchmaker, not good enough. Might be OK for a chunky clock though.
[21:31:27] <taiden> i cut lots of circles
[21:32:02] <taiden> they are currently +/- 0.015" diameter
[21:32:20] <taiden> but my spindle mount has a LOT of deflection
[21:32:40] <taiden> my bed is 8x12
[21:33:06] <taiden> spindle mount and y axis ***
[21:33:19] <taiden> i learned i would benefit greatly from a much more rigid spindle and a 18x18 bed
[21:33:44] <taiden> so given what i learned from my first router im trying to think of what the next one will be
[21:33:49] <taiden> belts certainly solve a lot of problems
[21:34:49] <taiden> the only thing is my spindle is really heavy
[21:34:55] <taiden> im afraid it would cause settling issues iwth belts
[21:35:56] <archivist> improve rigidity, add webs etc, diagnose errors,
[21:41:41] <andypugh> I reckon Servobelt adddresses all those issues. I really like the idea. You might need the right belt though, it needs to fit into itself.
[21:43:03] <andypugh> djdelorie: #sparkfun seems to be where the geek-kids hang out. They do seem rather younger than #emc
[21:43:43] <djdelorie> have you seen their ads? That's the target audience
[21:43:49] <WillenCMD> andypugh: well shit him heading over there, to hell with you old farts
[21:43:54] <WillenCMD> im*
[21:44:20] <archivist> its my jubilee today!
[21:44:57] <andypugh> It's cool. I seem to have fallen into a bit of a gap between radio shack when it was cool, and now.
[21:45:25] <WillenCMD> radioshack went down hill
[21:46:02] <archivist> radioshit never had what I needed
[21:46:46] <andypugh> Shouldn't complain, mind, I missed hardware cycles but was dead-on the middle of the home computer revolution. I was even described as a "Computer Whiz Kid" in print. (the local paper).
[21:47:37] <djdelorie> My mom used to go to Radio Shack and tell them "Hi, I'm DJ's mom. What would he like for Chrismas?"
[21:47:58] <djdelorie> but that was a long time ago
[21:48:02] <andypugh> Did they ever answer "a girl" ?
[21:48:31] <djdelorie> I usually got a stocking full of blue cardboard parts cards :-)
[21:49:18] <archivist> I got a Philips Electronics Engineer Kit one xmas/birthday
[21:49:19] <andypugh> Yeah, probably more comprehensible and ultimately rewarding than girls.
[21:49:36] <djdelorie> Depending on the year, I already *had* the girl.
[21:51:11] <archivist> someone has created a site for the kit history http://ee.old.no/
[21:53:43] <andypugh> I have never seen those before
[21:54:14] <andypugh> (EE kits, that is). I think I saw a girl once.
[21:54:51] <WillenCMD> the best gift i got, the radioshack armatron
[21:54:58] <andypugh> They look like chaps with bumpy fronts, yes (girls that is, not EE kits) :-)
[21:55:35] <andypugh> WillenCMD: There is a CNC armatron on Youtube somewhere
[21:55:45] <andypugh> It's marvellous
[21:55:57] <WillenCMD> of course that comes second to my erector set, and two lego mindstorm sets i had *cough* and still have :)
[21:56:11] <WillenCMD> i still to this day can get lost in lego's
[22:00:36] <WillenCMD> jeez did everyone go play with lego's or what, i didn't mean to stop the conversation
[22:00:56] <archivist> must have been the ee10 or ee20 kit I had, I had plenty of lego
[22:01:41] <andypugh> I was always more into Meccano
[22:02:38] <WillenCMD> really andy i would take you for more of a lincon log guy :)
[22:02:46] <WillenCMD> j/k
[22:02:59] <taiden> i'm thinking 8020, surplus linear rail, belts, and my gecko/381ozin motor setup
[22:03:07] <taiden> and my bosch 1617 evs
[22:03:16] <taiden> only problem is the Z
[22:03:42] <taiden> linear actuators seem to be hard to find cheap on ebay with 4-6" travel
[22:03:50] <andypugh> <google> Actually, that looks like fun
[22:04:13] <sam_p> I found a source of 8mils of backlash... loose coupler. Today was a good day :)
[22:04:20] <djdelorie> taiden: why not just some threaded rod? Z doesn't move that fast or often in a router CNC
[22:04:35] <taiden> yeah i would use acme rod for the z
[22:04:50] <taiden> i actually have a decent Z right now
[22:05:00] <taiden> could probably get away with just reusing it
[22:05:13] <WillenCMD> sam_p: I have been there before, frustrating
[22:05:38] <taiden> it's 5/8" shafting on oilite bearings with 5" travel and 3/8-12 1 start acme rod with delrin nut
[22:05:55] <taiden> i wish the shafting were larger but you get what you pay for i suppose
[22:05:56] <WillenCMD> sam_p: the problem was my associate was installing the motor's and connecting them to the screws, he forgot to fully tighten the couplings
[22:06:19] <taiden> was $155 shipped from John the guy who builds Microcarves
[22:06:48] <WillenCMD> have you guys seen http://www.microrax.com/
[22:07:01] <sam_p> This was my fault. For one axis, I had to pull the coupler off the motor a little bit to make sure it meshed with the other side (it's a lovejoy coupler with rubber spider). I guess I forgot to tighten it. Doh
[22:07:51] <WillenCMD> i picture from andy i believe one of the dozens i saw small t-sloted extrusions like half inch, i couldn't figure out where they cam from
[22:08:02] <WillenCMD> came*
[22:08:05] <sam_p> I saw the connectors on sparkfun
[22:08:36] <sam_p> They sell adapters so you can mount a servo (rc servo) to the stuff
[22:08:53] <WillenCMD> i know, it looks pretty cool like a grown up erector set
[22:09:24] <sam_p> Have you seen this 3d printer? http://www.thingiverse.com/image:133869
[22:09:50] <sam_p> I never thought to use zip ties as a replacement for glue/screws haha
[22:11:28] <sam_p> It makes me want to build a delta structure
[22:11:46] <WillenCMD> my wife wants a sprinkler system, i told her instaed i would build her a rover that would travel the yard and pull the hose to water the grass, always aiming the sprinkler into our yard, and minding elevation
[22:11:50] <andypugh> Fairly effective: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/ziptiefreak.jpg/
[22:12:20] <andypugh> Sounds like quite a challenge
[22:12:28] <sam_p> Slap some bondo on it and you're good to go
[22:12:29] <WillenCMD> i got the go ahead
[22:12:57] <sam_p> Your wife is brave :)
[22:13:00] <WillenCMD> so now its on, i figure i'll use a gps module and walk the perimeter loggin coordinates, then walk the house
[22:13:22] <sam_p> well hold on
[22:13:25] <sam_p> I do alot with gps
[22:13:58] <sam_p> What type of accuracy are you looking for?
[22:14:10] <sam_p> GPS can be off by quite a bit in regards to mowing
[22:14:42] <WillenCMD> its not going to mow the grass, usualy gps is within 4 or 5 feet i thought
[22:15:07] <archivist> and off by a lot more for height measurements
[22:15:37] <WillenCMD> ill use a tilt sensor for height, if its sloping down i'll tilt the head up
[22:15:43] <sam_p> Eh, the best a civilian is going to get you is 2.5m accuracy.. and that's with WAAS. That's not all the time either, that's a CEP rating or so
[22:15:45] <WillenCMD> and vice versa
[22:16:01] <sam_p> Assuming you will be 10m is a more realistic estimate
[22:16:19] <sam_p> The reported velocity will be very accurate however
[22:16:31] <WillenCMD> i could always use the electric fence line
[22:16:39] <sam_p> provided you are moving somewhat fast.. which I don't think you would want your motor to reach
[22:17:09] <sam_p> Yea, additional systems would be a good idea
[22:17:20] <andypugh> sam_p: If you have a fixed GPS and do differential, though,,
[22:17:28] <sam_p> True, that will help
[22:17:30] <WillenCMD> true
[22:17:34] <sam_p> you can get excellent accuracy
[22:17:40] <andypugh> Like, inches
[22:18:09] <WillenCMD> im pretty excited about it, i used to have a robot i build with lego mindstorm that would roam the house when the lights where off
[22:18:18] <WillenCMD> this isn't to different lol
[22:18:19] <sam_p> even smaller with high quality survey systems.. but those use additional signals
[22:18:32] <jdh> and are pricey.
[22:18:38] <sam_p> Lets see, you could setup some radio beacons and triangulate your position
[22:19:02] <sam_p> Or if you mow in the dark, you could use a laser system, like that one vaccume uses :D
[22:19:10] <WillenCMD> i will install a rotating sattelite dish like the lawnower on honey i shrunk the kids
[22:19:55] <sam_p> Add a kinect to it, run it in the dark, and 3d map your lawn
[22:20:10] <WillenCMD> i like where your going with this
[22:20:10] <sam_p> Attach rotary encoders on the wheels to track motion :)
[22:20:30] <WillenCMD> the night sprinkler, lurking in the dark
[22:21:18] <sam_p> I saw that movie
[22:21:23] <WillenCMD> i am going to use wonka vision to get the water to it though instead of dragging a hose
[22:22:07] <Connor> andypugh: I tried something today with my air cylinder.. I pressurized the retraction stage with a few PSI.. Then fully pressurized the extension stages.. when the air from those was release, the piston returned to retracted state.
[22:22:42] <Connor> I.E. I used it as a "air spring" :)
[22:23:09] <andypugh> Might be a simple solution
[22:24:45] <sam_p> Hey I've got a question for you folks. I don't have limit switches on my machine so before I turn it off, I always track it back to the machine home position. When I start it, I'm able to immediately zero everything and I'm good to go. Is it possible to put this in my ini script somehow so when linuxcnc starts, it automatically marks the machine point I'm at as the machine home?
[22:25:10] <WillenCMD> yes
[22:26:06] <WillenCMD> i'll have to track down the wiki
[22:27:20] <WillenCMD> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems
[22:27:47] <WillenCMD> alf F POSITION_FILE to find it
[22:28:45] <sam_p> Awesome, thank you. I've been looking for that for like 45 minutes now haha
[22:29:05] <WillenCMD> it came up in one of the millions of emc user list emails
[22:29:14] <WillenCMD> i read them all when im in the can
[22:29:21] <WillenCMD> just fyi
[22:29:24] <WillenCMD> lol
[22:29:38] <sam_p> heh. Well, looking for it did make me come across the diy probe. I'm going to have to make that
[22:30:18] <WillenCMD> i might have to put one of those in the night sprinkler
[22:30:52] <WillenCMD> has anyone seen the movie Paul?
[22:30:52] <sam_p> Have you thought of making a lawn cutter?
[22:31:28] <WillenCMD> oh im almost done with assembly on that, i was waiting for a couple of the dc wheelchair motor's to go cheap on ebay
[22:31:42] <sam_p> Nope. If I had a lawn, I would border the side with a black border. Whenever the grass needed to be cut, I would sweep a laser across the entire surface >:D
[22:31:48] <sam_p> cut it all!
[22:32:22] <WillenCMD> sounds to harsh for the environment, i'll use a water jet
[22:32:42] <WillenCMD> or blade
[22:32:43] <sam_p> I found out there's a used wheelchair junkyard near me
[22:33:01] <sam_p> I need to check it out some day.. I can't believe a place like that exists
[22:33:12] <WillenCMD> someone kidnapping old people and salvaging the "hoover arounds"
[22:33:48] <WillenCMD> i see those people that take them out on the streets, and i keep thinking what if the battery dies before they get home
[22:34:37] <WillenCMD> does it have a "ship to shore mode" like remote control boats, so they can make it back apon battery failure
[22:46:42] <Tom_itx> we get hints of rain but no rain
[22:47:06] <Tom_itx> doing some rewiring now to free up that encoder
[23:08:06] <pfred1> it is dry here
[23:09:20] <pfred1> andypugh http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6593/flood2x.jpg
[23:09:27] <pfred1> wasn't dry here then
[23:09:45] <pfred1> I had me own lake!
[23:10:14] <pfred1> too bad i was living right in the middle of it
[23:12:46] <uw> yea is pretty droughted here too
[23:13:06] <uw> but ill take it because last year this time, irine put a foot of water in my whole house
[23:13:31] <pfred1> that storm was right nest to me it didn't do much here though
[23:13:43] <pfred1> like the eye wall was about 8 miles from me
[23:13:52] <pfred1> I watched it on the radar go by
[23:14:03] <uw> you must not be in NY/NJ?
[23:14:12] <pfred1> it was right off the coast and i'm about 6 miles inland
[23:14:15] <pfred1> DE
[23:14:25] <pfred1> I mean it went right up the coast here
[23:14:33] <uw> ah ok yea my parents live there too and they got nothing
[23:14:40] <pfred1> we actually got stronger winds the next day
[23:14:52] <pfred1> it was strange
[23:15:07] <pfred1> new england got hammered though
[23:15:18] <uw> yea it wasnt too bad for me, but then 2 days later water rose 12"-18" above the record
[23:15:44] <pfred1> I saw video of people's houses turning into waterfalls and stuff
[23:16:00] <uw> worst storm ive seen id say
[23:16:10] <uw> esp for the southern VT area
[23:16:18] <uw> they really got rocked
[23:16:47] <uw> so yea
[23:16:54] <uw> let it drought i say!
[23:18:12] <pfred1> I donno all the corn crops are failing
[23:18:34] <pfred1> fields here are burnt up to nothing
[23:19:09] <uw> yup i was down there for the 4th visiting them
[23:19:20] <pfred1> was damned hot
[23:19:37] <uw> they live in delaware city the corn around them is like 3' high
[23:19:39] <uw> still
[23:19:41] <pfred1> was the heat really kicking by the n Idon't even remember
[23:19:49] <uw> ill take it
[23:20:00] <uw> i was displaced for a week and came back to $60k in damage
[23:20:02] <pfred1> where is DE city that up by wilmington?
[23:20:04] <uw> let it drought
[23:20:18] <uw> next to new castle?
[23:20:24] <pfred1> oh i know new castle
[23:20:31] <uw> right on the water there
[23:20:40] <pfred1> I live in sussex county
[23:20:43] <pfred1> different world here
[23:20:49] <uw> oh ok yea youre way down there
[23:20:53] <pfred1> yes
[23:21:05] <pfred1> but Know nes castle
[23:21:11] <pfred1> farmers market there
[23:21:12] <uw> do you know seaford?
[23:21:17] <pfred1> sure seaford
[23:21:21] <pfred1> nylon city
[23:21:23] <uw> yep usea work there
[23:21:25] <uw> dupont
[23:21:31] <pfred1> you and everyone else
[23:21:33] <uw> haha yup nylon
[23:21:40] <uw> and teflon
[23:21:40] <pfred1> place is a ghost town today
[23:21:48] <uw> yea sadly
[23:22:26] <pfred1> I just had to go out there to get a new sand filter valve for my pool
[23:22:46] <pfred1> I was due
[23:23:06] <uw> gotcha
[23:23:12] <uw> yea proprety is pretty cheap down there
[23:23:23] <uw> id like to move but dont know where id work anymore
[23:24:09] <pfred1> yeah stuff is pretty collapsed here now
[23:24:47] <nlkdavid> theres a town named Teflon?
[23:25:04] <uw> haha no its seaford
[23:25:08] <pfred1> nlkdavid there was but it didn't stick around
[23:25:15] <uw> oh now that i didnt know
[23:25:19] <nlkdavid> ah ok
[23:25:21] <pfred1> heh I wasj ust kidding
[23:25:46] <pfred1> yeah dupont transferred all their teflon production to china I heard
[23:25:52] <uw> yea it is getting worse too
[23:26:10] <pfred1> hey
[23:26:14] <uw> i was in wilmington then was transfered to seaford
[23:26:15] <pfred1> you could go work for amazon
[23:26:26] <pfred1> they're opening a huge distribution center here
[23:26:33] <uw> but they cut that back severly too
[23:26:36] <pfred1> 800 jobs i hear
[23:26:45] <uw> hmm wonder what they need
[23:26:51] <pfred1> probably everything
[23:26:56] <pfred1> they're just opening up
[23:27:07] <uw> i remember when that amazon warehouse put up
[23:27:11] <uw> big operation
[23:27:18] <uw> so they are opening another?
[23:27:20] <pfred1> yeah this is going to be a biggie
[23:27:32] <pfred1> they pulled out of texas I think
[23:27:40] <pfred1> something about taxes
[23:27:56] <pfred1> taxes in texas sounds funny
[23:28:09] <pfred1> here in DE we got no taxes though
[23:28:14] <uw> haha yup
[23:28:20] <uw> yea DE is real nice like that
[23:28:26] <uw> thats why my parents are down there
[23:28:34] <pfred1> me too I'm a tax refugee
[23:28:41] <pfred1> originally from NJ
[23:28:53] <uw> haha i hear that
[23:28:57] <pfred1> but i like it here it is so peaceful
[23:29:08] <pfred1> almost like I'm dead already
[23:29:12] <uw> i was from there, then went to de, then couldnt find work so now im in the greater nyc area
[23:29:26] <pfred1> oh yeah that is where I'm from
[23:29:27] <uw> yea that south DE is nice
[23:29:36] <pfred1> where abouts by NYC?
[23:29:47] <uw> im in nj in essex county
[23:29:51] <pfred1> I grew up in a town called Summit
[23:29:57] <pfred1> union county
[23:30:03] <uw> whoa swank town
[23:30:07] <pfred1> yes
[23:30:23] <uw> silver spoons haha
[23:30:32] <pfred1> my best friend in high school his dad was the senior VP of the NYSE
[23:30:51] <pfred1> yeah buncha ritchies
[23:30:55] <uw> yea i cant image the taxes in summit
[23:31:02] <pfred1> jon corzine lived there to oI think
[23:31:13] <pfred1> oh I can tell you what they are
[23:31:15] <uw> i pay 10k for a crappy lot with a small house
[23:31:21] <pfred1> when I got out i was paying 14 grand a year
[23:31:37] <pfred1> now 600 on 3 acres :)
[23:31:47] <uw> jebus it sure doesnt make sense to live there
[23:32:00] <uw> wow your taxes are 600 a year?
[23:32:03] <pfred1> yes
[23:32:17] <uw> huh thats crazy
[23:32:23] <uw> i really need to loook for a plot down there
[23:32:30] <pfred1> they even mow my front yard for me
[23:33:07] <pfred1> for what i was paying in NJ they should have been serving me breakfast in bed everyday
[23:33:16] <uw> wow my dad was saying somethign that DE is funny with letting you build on a property though. is that true?
[23:33:23] <uw> i would need a pole barn haha
[23:33:32] <pfred1> they don't seem funny to me
[23:33:44] <pfred1> the one rule we have is you can only have one domicile on a lot
[23:33:44] <uw> are you allowed to build somethign yourself?
[23:34:28] <pfred1> like you have to live under one roof can't have 2 separate houses with folks living in them unless yo uare caring for an elderly family member
[23:34:44] <pfred1> I donno I slapped up a shack in my backyard i never heard boo about it
[23:34:50] <pfred1> no one can see it back there
[23:35:07] <pfred1> I didn't put in a foundation or anything it is just hanging there
[23:35:19] <pfred1> I got a picture of it someplace let me find it
[23:35:26] <uw> haha yea i would kinda need a garage. say, 36x54 or so...
[23:35:36] <uw> aka pole barn
[23:35:43] <uw> i have dreams of owning one
[23:35:46] <pfred1> buy an old chicken farm
[23:35:51] <pfred1> chicken houses are huge
[23:35:52] <nlkdavid> hehe
[23:35:57] <pfred1> I looked at one
[23:36:04] <pfred1> took me like 10 minutes to walk around the thing
[23:36:12] <pfred1> I wasn't walking slow either
[23:36:26] <uw> hmm thats a good idea/scam
[23:36:43] <nlkdavid> 36x54, nothing to big
[23:36:44] <uw> it could be a "farm" but the chicken house could be filled with machines
[23:36:58] <pfred1> chicken house is like 30x300
[23:37:17] <uw> 30x300 i would certainly take too haha
[23:37:33] <pfred1> oh yeah they're gigantic
[23:37:51] <pfred1> there is going to be a job fair for amazon i heard
[23:37:59] <pfred1> you could run down and go
[23:38:15] <uw> now they are opening a place in south DE or north?
[23:38:24] <pfred1> I forget look it up
[23:38:50] <uw> middletown?
[23:39:01] <pfred1> could be
[23:40:32] <pfred1> yeah looks like middleton
[23:41:24] <pfred1> man when I order stuff off amazon it'll be here before i click the mouse
[23:41:49] <uw> haha
[23:41:52] <nlkdavid> sweet
[23:42:26] <uw> yikes 1M sqft warehouse
[23:42:38] <nlkdavid> wow
[23:42:42] <pfred1> we're a small state but we think big
[23:43:05] <uw> DE, we like our states small and our warehouses enormous
[23:43:25] <uw> oh and your smooth roads
[23:43:56] <pfred1> check out this place it is a gas station http://goo.gl/maps/oxML
[23:43:57] <uw> i remember my commute was on one of the smoothest concrete roads in the country
[23:44:19] <pfred1> is that the biggest gas station you've ever seen or what?
[23:44:24] <pfred1> they got a sports bar in there
[23:45:06] <uw> thats a gas station?
[23:45:10] <pfred1> yup Shell
[23:45:30] <pfred1> I go to a flea market they hold there on the weekends a lot
[23:45:31] <uw> Disney gas or something?
[23:45:39] <pfred1> its nuts isn't it?
[23:45:51] <pfred1> bargain bills
[23:46:04] <nlkdavid> ya
[23:46:15] <pfred1> when yo ugo in there it is like disney world sometimes they got live music
[23:47:15] <pfred1> mostly there ain't much of anything around here though
[23:47:29] <uw> thats perfectly fine with me
[23:47:33] <pfred1> me too
[23:47:43] <pfred1> let me find a picture of my shack
[23:47:49] <uw> if i have a decent job and my pole barn, ill keep myself occupied
[23:48:16] <pfred1> hit that amazon job fair
[23:48:22] <pfred1> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8210/72363334.jpg
[23:48:36] <pfred1> I built that just winged it no permit no nothing
[23:49:07] <pfred1> I can't even see it from my house
[23:49:59] <nlkdavid> cool, run electric?
[23:50:08] <pfred1> only when I was building it
[23:50:22] <pfred1> it took me over 320 feet of extension cord to reach back there
[23:50:26] <uw> I wonder if i can be a "IT Manager"
[23:50:31] <uw> i dont really fit in to anything else
[23:50:52] <pfred1> you're a computer person?
[23:51:44] <uw> i guess?
[23:51:58] <pfred1> I always worked construction
[23:52:23] <uw> typically develop electronic hardware (like circuit boards) but lately it's computer stuff
[23:52:27] <uw> so are you retired?
[23:52:33] <pfred1> yeah
[23:52:54] <pfred1> I didn't want to but things got so bad I was like skip it
[23:53:00] <uw> must be nice
[23:53:05] <pfred1> ah
[23:53:14] <pfred1> I miss it plenty
[23:53:25] <pfred1> but don't miss some of it
[23:53:32] <uw> yea where you live id retire too haha. Id surely find something to keep me busy
[23:53:41] <pfred1> I do
[23:53:49] <nlkdavid> their automated order collection machinery needs electronic techs i bet
[23:53:52] <pfred1> someday I'll finish my CNC machine
[23:53:53] <uw> but im not quite ready for it yet $$$ wise
[23:54:32] <pfred1> I got off track with it when I got this computer but this thing is just about done now I guess
[23:54:44] <pfred1> I want to make these arms for my front speakers still
[23:54:54] <pfred1> I made brackets for them already
[23:55:01] <uw> nlkdavid, where did you see that "order collection mach"? a listing?
[23:55:02] <pfred1> but I want them on the ends of arms
[23:55:53] <uw> yea i just have a small cnc but im sure if i had the room id get a bridgeport or two
[23:56:14] <pfred1> check out these arms i made for my monitors http://www.instructables.com/id/Under-Shelf-Dual-Monitor-Support-Arms/
[23:56:26] <pfred1> yeah good luck finding a bridgeport here
[23:56:45] <uw> haha you know, i must have talked to you before
[23:56:45] <pfred1> DE was never exactly the center of machining
[23:56:50] <nlkdavid> just from videos of amazon order fullfillmant facilitates
[23:56:59] <uw> because ive seen these before
[23:57:07] <uw> they are nice man, gotta say
[23:57:12] <pfred1> they were my most recent project kind of
[23:57:29] <pfred1> I was screwing around with my solar pond for a bit but kind of gave up on it
[23:57:34] <WillenCMD> pfred pick anything cool up lately?
[23:57:40] <pfred1> well I gave up on making a whole controller for it
[23:58:01] <pfred1> WillenCMD not that i can think of this is the slow season now
[23:58:18] <pfred1> once it gets hot everything kind of dries up
[23:58:34] <pfred1> I haven't even went out shopping the last couple of weks
[23:58:43] <WillenCMD> i see, i went to look at a logan lathe the other day
[23:59:07] <WillenCMD> from 1946
[23:59:20] <pfred1> this was the last thing I got of note http://i.imgur.com/OCtWd.jpg
[23:59:27] <pfred1> that was a while ago now
[23:59:39] <pfred1> $10 that whole load
[23:59:47] <nlkdavid> that kind of machinery must require some maintenance / adjustment of mechanics & control systems