#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-03

[00:29:36] <Connor> jdh: Yea, the height gauge will have to wait a while..
[00:29:55] <Connor> I need a few small jobs that I can do with the machine to make some $$$ to put into tooling. :)
[01:49:06] <DJ9DJ> moin
[01:58:17] <uw> M
[01:58:17] <uw> O
[01:58:18] <uw> I
[01:58:19] <uw> N
[02:25:48] <MrSunshine> http://imagebin.org/219290 http://imagebin.org/219291 well i know what ill be doing today .... :P
[03:33:39] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:37:47] <micges> hi
[09:34:36] <WillenCMD> Well it took me a long time to get it working bu i have successfully driving a stepper motor in velocity, with encoder feedback and pid using only linuxcnc
[09:54:01] <Loetmichel> *cough* *spit* $me has just cutted some ferrite plate s with a dremel and diamond disc... THATS a mouth full of black dust ;-)
[09:56:27] <anonimas1> im fighting fanuc
[09:56:30] <anonimas1> and lack of m-codes
[09:56:47] <anonimas1> im going to wire up a aux plc and use macro b to make my stuff happen
[09:56:51] <anonimas1> bar pulling and chuck opening
[09:57:08] <anonimas1> and a robot.
[09:57:12] <anonimas1> (just kidding)
[09:57:41] <Loetmichel> why?
[09:58:01] <anonimas1> i dont need a robot on my lathe, and i'd have to make it programable somehow too
[09:58:21] <anonimas1> pulling bars and havinga secondary revolver to switch between parting tool and gripper is good enough
[09:58:23] <Loetmichel> i have helped some frieds mountinng a big (4 meters radius) kuka robot between 3 brake disc grinders
[09:58:28] <Loetmichel> to feed them
[09:58:42] <anonimas1> so i can keep my turret space for more tools
[09:59:06] <anonimas1> the seco guy that visited me debugged my boring bar issue with chatter
[09:59:21] <anonimas1> in the end we had almost 6x dia without chatter
[09:59:51] <anonimas1> he was impressed :)
[10:02:24] <anonimas1> im happy since i can finally do bearing bored on the cnc instead of hand machining them
[10:04:54] <TekniQue> how did you get rid of the chatter?
[10:06:51] <anonimas1> changed the plate under to a correct height one
[10:07:58] <TekniQue> ok, was it off the centerline?
[10:08:54] <anonimas1> yeah
[10:09:12] <JT-Shop-> below or above?
[10:09:15] <anonimas1> below
[10:09:58] <anonimas1> slightly
[10:12:28] <anonimas1> looks like a full depth cut now 2.15mm at 0.25mm/rev dosent chatter at all
[10:13:19] <anonimas1> with massive overhang
[10:15:03] <anonimas1> :]
[10:24:55] <JT-Shop-> I must have got lucky the last time I leveled my parting tool on the Samson as it doesn't chatter any more
[11:06:59] <Connor> okay, been seeing lots of chatter on one of the forums about scrapping the ways.. WTF is that and why do you do it and how do you know if you need to do it ?
[11:08:29] <archivist> if your machine is not accurate or is tight/loose at parts of its travel
[11:09:32] <archivist> there are books on the subject
[11:09:56] <Connor> I'm sure.. I was looking at it's like a art form or something..
[11:10:12] <archivist> its manual labour
[11:10:26] <archivist> therefore an art :)
[11:11:33] <Jymmm> So digging that trench for the lawn sprinkler is art? Would that make Pedro an artist?
[11:11:46] <Connor> I have a HARD time knowing when something is actuate enough of not.. Drives me NUTS.
[11:11:54] <Jymmm> Would his artwork increase in value after he dies?
[11:12:13] <Jymmm> Connor: do you have a string?
[11:12:22] <archivist> Connor, measure your machine and test if you wish, its a choice
[11:12:42] * archivist thinks Jymmm is not helpful
[11:12:44] <Connor> Jymmm: A string? Yea..
[11:12:50] <Connor> *boggle*
[11:14:07] <Jymmm> Connor: Tension a string or other known straight item across the ways and look to see if things are parallel or if their are gaps (backlight if needed and look for where light leaks through)
[11:14:33] <syyl> gravity doesnt affect your string?
[11:14:34] <archivist> s/string/taught wire
[11:14:39] <JT-Shop-> or look for muller nick's videos
[11:14:53] <syyl> i recommend muellernick too :)
[11:15:38] <Connor> I think the machine is good enough for my stuff.. I was just trying to figure it out.
[11:16:04] <Jymmm> Connor: you dont have a surface plate do you?
[11:16:19] <Connor> Jymmm: Not yet.
[11:16:30] <Jymmm> ok, nm
[11:16:44] <Jymmm> have you ever used one?
[11:16:47] <Connor> That's next on my list of things to get along with a height gauge.
[11:16:54] <Connor> No.
[11:17:17] <archivist> mount a dti in the spindle offset from center rotate by hand, see if surface of machine is flat and square to spindle
[11:18:48] <JT-Shop-> I third muller nick's videos
[11:19:18] <archivist> not seen :(
[11:19:25] <syyl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BodWCJnnm0
[11:19:32] <syyl> shot that video on the weekend ;)
[11:19:36] <syyl> nick in action :D
[11:21:15] <alpha1125> what did he cast?
[11:21:49] <syyl> we did some machine parts
[11:22:05] <archivist> bare legs!
[11:22:10] <syyl> yeah
[11:22:29] <syyl> it was awfull hot :D
[11:33:50] <Jymmm> Can you use air hose for propane?
[11:33:59] <Jymmm> and quick releases too?
[11:34:31] <JT-Shop-> I don't know if "you" can but I do on my crawfish cooker
[11:35:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: so nothing fancy about it? I thought there was some plasticier thing you had to worry about?
[11:35:41] <JT-Shop-> syyl: what kind of burner is Muller using?
[11:36:08] <JT-Shop-> Jymmm: doesn't seem to bother Cajuns
[11:36:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: Heh, you use quick release connector too?
[11:36:43] <JT-Shop-> yea
[11:36:47] <Jymmm> regular air type?
[11:36:50] <syyl_ws> waste oil burner
[11:37:02] <syyl_ws> about 300kW power...
[11:37:07] <JT-Shop-> not harbor freight junk but good ones
[11:37:09] <syyl_ws> running on old hydraulic oil
[11:37:17] <JT-Shop-> syyl: like a babcock burner?
[11:37:19] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: ok, cool.
[11:38:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: I've just not messed with gas and rubber too much is all. Didn't know if there is anyting specific one had to watch out for.
[11:38:43] <syyl_ws> hmm, he has a blower from an old volkswagen, a pressurized fuel tank and a nozzle that injects the fuel into the airstream from the blower
[11:39:02] <JT-Shop-> ok, like a house heater oil burner
[11:39:08] <syyl_ws> right
[11:39:16] <syyl_ws> it can melt cast iron
[11:39:27] <JT-Shop-> nice
[11:39:28] <syyl_ws> if the insulation of the oven would be a bit better
[11:39:36] <skunkworks> Jymmm: wathc out for an explostion?
[11:39:42] <skunkworks> *watch
[11:39:43] <syyl_ws> he is working on that
[11:39:57] <syyl_ws> if it explodes, duck
[11:40:14] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Well, that's why I haven't messed with it before =)
[11:40:19] <syyl_ws> i never figured out, what a duck would help in case of an explosion Oo
[11:41:45] <Jymmm> syyl_ws: Maybe the duck is like an airplane when they give you the safety speech before take off.... "In case of emergency, place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye"
[11:43:16] <JT-Shop-> same reason the EOD won't bother wearing protective gear for big bombs... don't do any good to duck or hide
[11:43:52] <syyl_ws> hrhr
[11:45:25] * JT-Shop- hears a nap calling my name
[11:46:21] <syyl_ws> be aware! it might be a trap
[11:46:34] <Jymmm> He's willing to risk it
[11:46:57] <DJ9DJ> it's a tarp!
[11:47:28] <Jymmm> tarp, blanky, same diff.
[12:11:46] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[12:14:04] <DJ9DJ> hi livegucker
[12:14:30] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:32:00] <andypugh> A2Sheds: http://www.v-flo.com/UpFiles/Goods/img/20113131723979762.pdf
[12:32:51] <A2Sheds> just heard that they can't use a heat exchanger to preheat the water supply
[12:33:14] <A2Sheds> so it looks like steam engine or water turbine or just condenser and fans
[12:34:44] <A2Sheds> they just want the lowest cost steam to <120 F water conversion system
[12:34:49] <andypugh> They have turbines there specifically aimed at the cement industry, with wet steam inlet pressures of 50 to 140psi
[12:35:17] <A2Sheds> yes, heading to China soon
[12:35:34] <A2Sheds> thanks again for looking!
[12:35:51] <andypugh> I asked on my motorbike mailing list, one of them found it.
[12:36:32] <A2Sheds> thanks BBL
[12:43:55] <IchGuckLive> today i colored my Trafalgar Replika -> http://mechmo.de/trafalgar_color.jpg
[12:44:15] <IchGuckLive> and then sandet it http://mechmo.de/trafalgar_sand.jpg
[12:53:13] <anonimas1> Connor: usually if your parts comes out to spec without fighting and offsetting things your good enough
[12:53:31] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Is it for something, or just fun?
[12:53:38] <anonimas1> Connor: ie. if you have to comp for taper when you turn things you have a problem
[12:54:02] <anonimas1> Jymmm: sure you can but nobody in the world will recommend you to.
[12:54:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: why?
[12:54:51] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: its a garden aplication
[12:55:06] <anonimas1> Jymmm: i wouldnt take a chance.
[12:55:33] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: Upmarket gnome?
[12:55:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: on which part? The air hose? The fittings? somethign else?
[12:56:59] <andypugh> Jymmm: Huh?
[12:57:02] <anonimas1> both
[12:57:25] <Jymmm> andypugh: All you A's look alike! (nick completion)
[12:57:39] <andypugh> Be less lazy then
[12:57:54] <Jymmm> anonimas1: well, can you elaborate?
[13:03:31] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what do you use for a belt tensioner on your plasma drives?
[13:14:52] <andypugh> "Plasma Drive" sounds very space-age
[13:15:39] <JT-Shop-> Tom_itx: the motor
[13:21:17] <JT-Shop-> andypugh: http://www.bldcmotor.org/products/item.php?sID=147&pt=i&tID=468&cID=184
[13:25:29] <Connor> Why would someone do friction drilling ?
[13:25:46] <archivist> no material loss
[13:26:29] <archivist> you get thick edges for tapping etc
[13:26:57] <Connor> Good for sheet metal and thin wall applications then ?
[13:27:28] <archivist> yup, seen it done at a show a month ago
[13:37:44] <anonimas1> Jymmm: because gas is deadly.
[13:38:22] <IchGuckLive> By GN8 O.O
[13:38:41] <anonimas1> Jymmm: werent you scared about the birds before, i'd be more scared of myself.
[13:38:59] <Jymmm> anonimas1 Birds?
[13:44:59] <anonimas1> you talked alot about how you couldnt cut acetal way back..
[13:45:08] <anonimas1> because of the formaldehyde
[13:47:23] <Jymmm> anonimas1: Well, different building, but it's not a matter of using propane at all as much as using (or not using) air line rated hose/fittings and if there is any real difference than those rated for gas for intermittent use.
[13:49:58] <Connor> Trying to find a 3 stage air cylinder for a Power Drawbar...
[13:55:04] <andypugh> Connor: You mean tandem?
[13:55:13] <andypugh> I think you might have to make one.
[13:55:54] <andypugh> It is not, in priniciple, particularly difficult
[13:56:44] <andypugh> (I made my own, but it was a single-stage one)
[13:57:15] <Jymmm> Neither is flying to the Moon, in principal... a big tube attached to a couple gas cans.
[13:57:43] <andypugh> You don't necessarily want the standard pneumatic piston form-factor anyway
[13:58:30] <andypugh> Mine is a "pinch" design, which simultaneously pulls a collar and pushes a rod, but moves free of both when the air is turned off.
[13:59:16] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5501336824053407474
[14:01:56] <andypugh> I guess you would have a "mushroom" with seals round the edge that you pushed in first, then a ring with seals in the middle to seal round the stem of the mushroom and the outer cylinder which fixed to the outer cylinder, then a second piston fixed to the stem, and so on.
[14:02:24] <andypugh> Probably a stepped outer cylinder, or a set of rings would make sense.
[14:03:08] <andypugh> <ponders if Connor is still even there>
[14:06:00] <andypugh> Incidentally, that spring in the drawing isn't what i actually used, I used: http://www.smalley.com/wave_springs/about_springs.asp in crest-to-crest format. They even sent me it free as a "sample" (and I was perfectly honest about it)
[14:08:14] <skunkworks> I had the same luck with a bearing wholesaler.. I explained that they where the only company I could find that had a certain bearing - the guy said - 'I will send you one'
[14:08:18] <Connor> andypugh: I guess.. Should be small, around 1500-2000lbs of force.. short stroke.. like 1/2" or so
[14:08:54] <andypugh> Connor: Do you have a lathe?
[14:09:57] <Connor> mini lathe.
[14:10:05] <Connor> and 4" chuck for the mill.
[14:10:52] <andypugh> Hmm, might be a bit much to ask of a mini-lathe. How "mini" is it?
[14:14:21] <andypugh> 2000lbs @ 100psi = 20sqin
[14:19:13] <andypugh> 3.5" OD 1" ID piston has an area of 8.8sqin, x3 = 26sqin = 2650lbs. Sounds about right. (Mine is too small, I need 140psi to release the drawbar, so I am trying to save you having the same problem)
[14:21:40] <andypugh> I am pretty clear in my head what it would look like. I might have a fiddle about with the CAD later on.
[14:22:26] <andypugh> (You can bore down the middle of the central rod to get air between the stages)
[14:25:16] <archivist> use a lever
[14:26:48] <ReadError> hey yall
[14:27:04] <ReadError> anyone ever countersunk a hole using a rounded end endmill?
[14:27:27] <ReadError> i figured it could be possible depending on the size of the end and angle of the sink?
[14:30:19] <andypugh> Possible, but would take some cunning mathematics
[14:31:37] <archivist> and depends on countersink type/angle/clearance wanted
[14:35:53] <Tom_itx> ReadError just get the proper tools for the job
[14:36:37] <Tom_itx> 'rounded end' endmill could be a bull nose or ball nose endmill
[14:36:56] <andypugh> I wonder if I own any PCB drills, and if I do, where they are..
[14:37:10] <Tom_itx> either of which would be undesireable for a countersunk bolt head
[14:45:16] <andypugh> I was assuming the plan would be to spiral down and generate the countersink
[14:46:08] <JT-Shop-> or go up and down the wall and pivot around by what ever lumpyness you want
[14:50:34] <archivist> or for a cap head, spiral out far enough to get a flat dia as needed for the cap head dia
[14:54:29] <Tom_itx> seems like alot of extra machine time that one tool could plunge and take care of
[14:55:37] <JT-Shop-> if you have time and no tools you improvise adapt and overcome
[14:55:39] <Tom_itx> however, we used to run a mill around some edges of parts to help the debur process along. saved time at the debur bench
[14:56:37] <Tom_itx> i wanna make a rotary axis for this little mill but i'm not sure of the design yet
[14:57:19] <Tom_itx> my poor dogs hate fireworks
[14:59:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Take them out shooting the rest of the year to desensitize them
[15:00:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/misc/puppy1.jpg
[15:00:32] <Jymmm> sleeping or howling?
[15:00:40] <Tom_itx> sleep
[15:00:43] <Jymmm> =)
[15:25:08] <skunkworks> I would like to make a trunion...
[15:34:36] <JT-Shop-> can't you make anything on the K&T?
[15:35:04] <Jymmm> bacon and eggs?
[15:35:58] * Tom_itx straps a tube of gas to Jymmm and sends him to the moon
[15:36:04] <Tom_itx> it's not that difficult
[15:37:32] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Is there Green Space Strippers there?
[15:38:02] <Tom_itx> with one eye
[15:38:28] <Jymmm> soldering Iron tips... Is the heating element *IN* the replaceable tip in some models or just a thermistor ?
[15:39:09] <Tom_itx> take one apart and see
[15:39:32] <Jymmm> I've seen some weller tips that have a 1/8" or so lil extra something on the back end but I can't tell what it is
[15:39:33] <Tom_itx> mine are thermistor i think
[15:39:44] <Tom_itx> like what you described
[15:39:53] <Jymmm> which?
[15:39:59] <Jymmm> element or thermitor?
[15:39:59] <Tom_itx> google WTCPT tips
[15:41:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: But it's never the heating element itself, correct?
[15:41:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103473226
[15:41:59] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[15:42:47] <Tom_itx> maybe it's a magnet?
[15:43:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Ok, so how are those suppose to regulate the temp? It gets too hot, pulls a magnet awat from the handle?
[15:43:39] <Jymmm> Nothign actually electrical in the tip itself?
[15:43:46] <Tom_itx> i forget but someone explained it a while back
[15:43:57] <Tom_itx> certain temp they become non magnetic?
[15:44:15] <Tom_itx> it's basically a switch
[15:44:21] <Jymmm> ok, that makes sense then, no magnetic field, switch opens
[15:44:21] <Tom_itx> i think
[15:45:26] <PCW> it uses the Curie temperature of a pellet of metal on the back of the tip
[15:45:45] <Jymmm> PCW: Ah, ty
[15:46:31] <Tom_itx> see i knew it was something like that :D
[15:46:34] <PCW> when it gets hot enough it looses its ferromagnetic properties, a magnet in the iron turns off the heater power
[15:46:44] <Jymmm> I'm trying to use the heating element of solderign station, but fabricate a custom (replaceable) tip.
[15:47:13] <Jymmm> PCW: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. especially since reed switches are encased in glass typically.
[15:48:09] <JT-Shop-> hmmm 50 grams of F is 50cc's of volume
[15:49:00] <Tom_itx> so JT-Shop did you get the 'ole phart's cannon fixed?
[15:49:52] <JT-Shop-> it's not broke, he is finishing it
[15:50:00] <Jymmm> Hmmm, I just pulled the tip out of my iron, seems to have a light grey color in it's shaft, but the actual tip is the typical burned coloring. Could that be some kind of coating, or is that scale, or ???
[15:50:03] <JT-Shop-> we are not lacking much to have it ready to fire
[15:50:12] <Tom_itx> it looked awfully intense there
[15:50:21] <JT-Shop-> yea
[15:50:48] <JT-Shop-> we finally got him movatied to finish it... he has been sitting on it for years
[15:51:09] <Tom_itx> should have fired it, that would get him off of it
[15:51:20] <Tuipveus> now my raspberry pi has arrived and it is running Debian Wheezy
[15:51:51] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you order those as kits or make them from plans or what?
[15:52:21] <Tom_itx> oh and could i borrow one for the neighborhood tomorrow evening?
[15:52:23] <Tom_itx> :)
[15:54:46] <Jymmm> Can you tell if the left half is some type of coating or scale or soemthign else? http://i49.tinypic.com/30ikmr9.jpg
[15:55:01] <Jymmm> the light grey color
[15:55:37] <andypugh> Mine don't look like that
[15:55:54] <cradek> on the contrary, the right end is the one that has the coating that keeps it from being rough and nasty like that
[15:56:00] <Tom_itx> that's an awfully big tip
[15:56:00] <Tom_itx> my whole tip is about an inch i think
[15:56:17] <Jymmm> cradek: so , the coating on the right is missing?
[15:56:25] <Tom_itx> never was there
[15:56:35] <Jymmm> and it is a coating and not scale build up?
[15:56:38] <Tom_itx> the tip is coated to make it last longer
[15:56:40] <cradek> the right looks used but correct to me
[15:57:01] <cradek> heat it up, clean it on a wet sponge, tin it, and it will probably be fine
[15:58:07] <gmagno> hello, erm... during stepconf wizard I set max speed to 50mm/s, but when I start CNC with that configuration the motors move at a lower speed... You guys know how to change that operation speed?
[15:58:11] <Jymmm> What I am trying to determine is if that is a factory coating on it, or if I could fabricate my own custom tip. If it's a coating I have nfc what it could be.
[15:58:42] <Tom_itx> it's oxidized from use probably
[15:59:01] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: are you doing a rapid move to test speed or cutting out a part
[15:59:37] <cradek> are the moves the correct distance?
[15:59:49] <cradek> what are you seeing exactly and how does it differ from what you expect
[15:59:59] <gmagno> erm... during stepconf wizard I do axis test, which I believe is rapid move, am I correct?
[16:00:21] <cradek> not really, there is no gcode running at that time
[16:01:19] <gmagno> cradek, but in "Test this axis" menu I test max speed, right? How much of this max speed is used during cut operation?
[16:01:31] <anonimas1> coating is overrated unless you run at production feeds/speeds
[16:01:41] <cradek> that is a more complicated question than it seems
[16:01:41] <gmagno> I mean which percentage of max speed is being used
[16:01:51] <cradek> tell us exactly what you see that you think is incorrect
[16:02:10] <anonimas1> the big issue is having sharp enough tools.
[16:03:06] <anonimas1> -_- not for soldering though, they are coated
[16:03:24] <anonimas1> "usually"
[16:03:38] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, any idea which parameter is responsible for cutting operation speed?
[16:04:15] <JT-Shop-> F
[16:04:20] <Jymmm> Ok, here's a pic of a factory fresh tip... I still see that "coating" on it, any idea what it could be? http://www.vellemanusa.com/images/products/1/bits5.jpg
[16:04:36] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, what? :-o
[16:05:18] <JT-Shop-> cutting speed is set with the F word... F100 in g code
[16:06:58] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, shouldnt I set that as a LinuxCNC parameter, and then the software should use that value in all cuts unless specified
[16:07:37] <JT-Shop-> nope you must specifiy the cutting speed in the g code file
[16:07:50] <JT-Shop-> have you ever ran a CNC machine?
[16:08:09] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, only the one I'm building :D
[16:09:27] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, interesting, I just searched for "F100" in my gcode sample and there is no entry... but I found "F200.00000" Is it related? May I enter a new code line with F100 bla bla bla
[16:10:49] <JT-Shop-> there is only one F in LinuxCNC G code so yes F200.000000 is a feed rate of 200 units per minute
[16:11:24] <gmagno> what units?
[16:11:30] <gmagno> mm?
[16:12:04] <JT-Shop-> just depends on what you set in your preamble
[16:13:09] <JT-Shop-> might I suggest this little G code tutorial I wrote for LinuxCNC as some good reading http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[16:15:23] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, thanks
[16:15:29] <JT-Shop-> np
[16:19:27] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:22:41] <tjb1> andypugh: how do you scroll with the elo touch?
[16:23:36] <anonimas1> Jymmm: not really i know i've seen it online(the name of it)
[16:24:32] <Jymmm> anonimas1: what is "it"? lots of conversation happen with a lagged reply
[16:29:37] <anonimas1> nvm then
[16:30:53] <Jymmm> anonimas1: I wasn't trying to be funny
[16:32:03] <anonimas1> me neither google tells you they electroplate iron to the tips to make the solder stick to them, if they are made out of copper.
[16:32:40] <anonimas1> http://www.leisto.net/about-soldering-tools/the-coatings-of-soldering-tips.html
[16:33:52] <Tom_itx> gold plate the tip
[16:34:34] <andypugh> tjb1: Awkwardly
[16:34:48] <andypugh> You _can_ just about drag the sliders
[16:34:56] <tjb1> i forgot mac osx setting to hide the scroll bars :P
[16:35:04] <tjb1> its hard to hit things against the bezel
[16:35:05] <PCW> they use iron since it does not dissolve in solder
[16:36:06] <PCW> gold would dissolve and be gone instantly
[16:36:50] <tjb1> the new one arrived andypugh, super quiet and works great.
[16:38:40] <Jymmm> Hmmm "Iron plating of solder iron tips is still the best finish. eEectroless nickel is used for de-soldering. Iron is also plated from an HCl, ferrous chloride solution at 90C plating. Not a nice solution to have in a shop. There is also ferrous sulfamate that plates at pH 4, but it is little used mostly because people don't know very much about it."
[16:38:46] <Jymmm> anonimas1: thanks
[16:51:29] <JT-Shop-> anyone want a beer while I'm up?
[16:52:19] <PCW> shoot one over here
[16:57:10] <Tom_itx> got anything a bit stronger?
[17:00:03] <JT-Shop-> ok Peter
[17:03:35] <JT-Shop-> Tom_itx: yea, I have some Remy Martin 1738
[17:06:45] <JT-Shop-> but if I touch that stuff this early in the day I might as well go to bed without supper
[17:06:53] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:07:12] <JT-Shop-> it is real smooth
[17:08:18] <Tom_itx> ok if i read this right, if i set BACKLASH i will need to increase my STEPGEN_MAXACCEL from what it currently is to a value nearly 1.5 to 2x what MAX_ACCELERATION is
[17:08:32] <Tom_itx> currenntly it's about 10% more
[17:09:15] <Tom_itx> why would a couple thousandths affect it that much?
[17:09:54] * Tom_itx hunts for the indicator
[17:19:35] <JT-Shop-> Tom_itx: because during direction reversal the axis tries to get to the new position at warp speed
[17:20:19] <Tom_itx> the change won't affect other settings?
[17:21:00] <Loetmichel> warp 3 or warp9?
[17:21:02] <Loetmichel> ;)
[17:21:10] <JT-Shop-> warp 11 iirc
[17:21:22] <Tom_itx> and is there a test to see that the setting isn't too high for the steppers?
[17:22:00] <JT-Shop-> yea, do the stepper test... it's in the getting started manual somewhere
[17:22:49] <Tom_itx> it should stay within the max velocity limits though shouldn't it even though it's a short burst
[17:26:34] <gmagno> sorry to bother with what might be another trivilal question... My drawings (I'm not using a drill right now, just a pen for test purposes) are, naturally, not to scale, that is if my drawing is a 10 by 10 mm square, my CNC will not draw it with that size but something smaller. Do you know which parameters I should set to fix this?
[17:30:15] <andypugh> gmagno: Are you using Stepconf, or editing the config files by hand?
[17:30:17] <WillenCMD> well it took me 8 hours on and off but i successfully tuned a stepper in velocity mode and and encoder mounted to the lead screw of the machine
[17:30:17] <JT-Shop-> the scale
[17:31:31] <JT-Shop-> 10mm x 10mm that is a tiny machine
[17:32:01] <JT-Shop-> andypugh: did you see the BLDC motor/drive I found?
[17:32:06] <andypugh> gmagno: EAch AXIS has a SCALE in the INI file. That needs to be step-pulses per mm or per inch. You can calculate it from the stepper angle (200 per rev nearly always), the microstep ratio of the drive, the pitch of the leadscrew and any intermediate gearing.
[17:32:14] <gmagno> andypugh, im using wizard
[17:32:40] <andypugh> gmagno: In that case, put in the correct numbers for all the above.
[17:32:53] <andypugh> WillenCMD: Is this the sharpening machine?
[17:32:54] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, that was just an example, the machine is bigger
[17:33:05] <andypugh> JT-Shop-: No
[17:33:31] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: how is the stepper moving the axis?
[17:33:50] <JT-Shop-> andypugh: http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/brushless/brushless-integrated-item.php?sID=147&pt=i&tID=97&cID=48
[17:34:01] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, with a screw, is that what you mean?
[17:34:20] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, are those the ones you're goin with?
[17:34:22] <JT-Shop-> yes, how much does the screw turn for one mm?
[17:34:33] <JT-Shop-> Tom_itx: I think so for a prototype
[17:34:38] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, let me check
[17:34:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop-: That does look pretty cool.
[17:35:13] <JT-Shop-> yea, drive and motor all in one
[17:35:25] <JT-Shop-> for $200 can't beat trying one
[17:35:29] <Tom_itx> i sold a programmer to a guy that makes steppers like that
[17:35:46] <Tom_itx> i don't think they make dc motors though
[17:35:46] <WillenCMD> JT-Shop: i wonder if the drive is rated for splash and oil?
[17:36:25] <Jymmm> WHAAAAAT?! Helium II is 45 TIMES GREATER thermal conductor than diamond?!
[17:36:26] <JT-Shop-> not that one but they have some if you need one
[17:36:52] <andypugh> Jymmm: In what phase?
[17:37:13] <WillenCMD> JT-Shop: I have contacted Anaheim before they had a 14 week lead time
[17:37:28] <JT-Shop-> yuck!
[17:37:36] <JT-Shop-> well see what they say on this one
[17:37:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: Sort by "Thermal conductivity" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thermal_conductivities
[17:38:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: then scroll to the bottom of the list
[17:39:04] <Jymmm> "The thermal conductivity of helium II is greater than that of any other known substance, a million times that of helium I and several hundred times that of copper" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_II#Helium_II_state
[17:39:19] <WillenCMD> JT-Shop: could of been just the items i needed.
[17:39:45] <JT-Shop-> 14 weeks is pretty far out, even I can make parts faster than that
[17:40:12] <andypugh> Jymmm: But pure C12 diamond is twice that of HeII
[17:40:16] <Tom_itx> maybe they have samples ready but production is 14 weeks
[17:40:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: where do you see that?
[17:40:59] <WillenCMD> All i know is i was pretty upset
[17:41:06] <WillenCMD> had to go chinese
[17:41:10] <gmagno> andypugh, 100 rotations correspond to 98mm
[17:41:16] <JT-Shop-> I can imagine
[17:41:51] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v70/i24/p3764_1
[17:42:16] <JT-Shop-> andypugh: is that an odd leadscrew pitch?
[17:42:33] <andypugh> Sounds wierd to me.
[17:42:47] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: is this an ordinary metric threaded rod?
[17:42:48] <Jymmm> Diamond, isotopically enriched 3,320
[17:42:48] <Tom_itx> if your linear SCALE is 40000 how do you determine your angular scale for a rotary axis?
[17:42:59] <Jymmm> Helium II >100000
[17:43:18] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, I think so, it is an M6 rod
[17:43:24] <delkin> ora boas, meus meninos
[17:43:32] <WillenCMD> its in units of degree's i believe
[17:43:33] <gmagno> boas delkin
[17:43:37] <andypugh> 97.69mm for 100 revs would be 26tpi.
[17:44:05] <gmagno> is that a standard relation?
[17:44:07] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: ok a M6 x 1.0 rod then with some variation
[17:44:08] <andypugh> Jymmm: Ref 36
[17:44:31] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: how is your stepper connected to the threaded rod?
[17:44:43] <gmagno> coupler
[17:44:50] <gmagno> poor man's one :)
[17:45:07] <gmagno> but it's a 1:1 relation
[17:45:09] <JT-Shop-> so direct, so 1 rev of the stepper should be 1mm
[17:45:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: it still says 41,000
[17:45:33] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, sounds good to me
[17:45:43] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: is your drive set for any microstepping?
[17:46:09] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, er... dunno :-/ ow do I check that?
[17:46:16] <gmagno> oh wait
[17:46:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: oh I see what your talking about now
[17:46:29] <gmagno> I know what you're talking about
[17:46:32] <gmagno> it is
[17:46:35] <gmagno> lemme check
[17:47:44] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, 1/2
[17:48:57] <JT-Shop-> so on the stepconf page for that axis the scale at the bottom should say 400
[17:49:05] <ReadError> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Jul%2003%2C%206%2028%2059%20PM.jpg looks good under the naked eye
[17:49:12] <ReadError> but steelwool did a number on it ;/
[17:50:10] <JT-Shop-> gmagno: so your entries from top down might be 200, 2, 1, 1, 1
[17:50:33] <JT-Shop-> and Axis SCALE: = 400.0 Steps / mm
[17:56:12] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, I'm checking it
[17:56:22] <JT-Shop-> ok
[17:56:45] <JT-Shop-> ReadError: try scotch brite
[17:57:27] <ReadError> i used that first
[17:57:29] <ReadError> the green pad
[18:00:59] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, where is that Axis SCALE parameter in stepconf wizard?
[18:01:36] <JT-Shop-> it is at the bottom of the page, you have to enter the numbers like above then look at scale
[18:01:51] <gmagno> ahh
[18:01:57] <gmagno> indeed
[18:02:36] <gmagno> gonna do another test, first test didn't go well, the pen barely moved...
[18:04:57] <gmagno> ok, linuxcnc crashed... rebooting computer
[18:06:09] <gmagno> anyway, I'm very happy with this software, god bless the guy who made it
[18:06:16] <gmagno> all the community
[18:20:51] <andypugh> gmagno: You shouldn't need to reboot the computer.
[18:21:03] <gmagno> JT-Shop-, thank you a lot. That really worked. The problem I was having had to do with speed parameters. If I set a max speed too high the motor gets stuck. Do you know what happens inside the motor?
[18:21:47] <gmagno> andypugh, I could just move the mouse
[18:22:25] <andypugh> gmagno: It's related to the inductance of the coils. When trying to step too fast there isn't enough time for the current to build up to the required level to create the necessary torque
[18:23:37] <gmagno> hmm
[18:23:55] <gmagno> is there any resonance fenomenom
[18:23:56] <gmagno> ?
[18:24:12] <andypugh> Yes. But I don't understand that properly.
[18:24:42] <andypugh> http://sanyo-denki-online.com/library/mid_band.pdf
[18:29:14] <gmagno> andypugh, I'm not sure this is it, but imagine you are pushing a child in a swing. If you use your force in opposition to swing velocity it will stop.
[18:30:11] <gmagno> and that happens at a certain frquency
[18:30:54] <gmagno> if your the force is the system input, there is a certain frequency at which you push/pull the swing that will stop it
[18:31:44] <gmagno> that frequency has to do with the natural frequency of the system, which certainly depends on gravity
[18:32:06] <gmagno> for the motor there are other parameters the influence the resonance frequency
[18:33:09] <tjb1> Anyone know what the extrusion companies do if you find that its bent or gashed?
[18:39:11] <andypugh> Oh, I understand resonance. I was meaning that I am not entirely clear what the resonant system is in a stepper, and how some drives can compensate for it.
[18:39:24] <andypugh> tjb1: Is it bent?
[18:39:48] <tjb1> Yes slightly…the other piece has a long 8 inch gash in it, funny thing is though that it is anodized so it wasnt done by the shipping company
[18:40:02] <alex4nder> tjb1: that's damning
[18:40:03] <andypugh> I would say contact them, you paid a fair bit of money for it, so it ought to be right.
[18:40:25] <tjb1> Do they expect you to open the stuff and inspect it completely before you sign for it?
[18:40:52] <andypugh> Bent is the bigger problem, I would say.
[18:41:00] <tjb1> Guess I will get some pictures tomorrow and call them thursday about it
[18:41:10] <tjb1> Put a straight edge against it and take a picture
[18:41:16] <JT-Shop-> that sucks tjb1
[18:41:51] <Tom_itx> ok that was easy enough
[18:41:56] <tjb1> Well I have to go finish painting a wall so I can get to the straight edge...
[18:42:03] <Tom_itx> had to lower max acceleration though
[18:42:21] <Tom_itx> max stepgen was pretty much maxed
[18:42:44] <Tom_itx> all 3 axis return dead nuts to zero now
[18:43:33] <Tom_itx> later on i'll cut a circle and measure it
[18:43:40] <Tom_itx> that'll be a true test i think
[18:48:05] <andypugh> Cutting a circle is something that backlash compensation might not help with.
[18:49:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: would that be an oval as the results?
[18:50:37] <andypugh> The problem is that the LinuxCNC knows when the direction of motion changes rather than when the direction of the cutting forces changes. I think that means you get something reasonably circular, but with wobbles at the cardinal points.
[18:51:15] <Jymmm> I lost you at the comma
[18:51:36] <Tom_itx> we had an old bridgeport boss 5 that left tiny notches at each quadrant
[18:51:43] <Jymmm> ah
[18:51:59] <Tom_itx> as the axis crossed and reversed
[18:52:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh i think it's a fair test
[18:53:21] <Tom_itx> i don't plan on measuring it on a cmm though, coming off this little sherline
[18:53:40] <JT-Shop-> lol
[18:54:57] <Tom_itx> when i left out there, my friend had just purchased an automatic cmm. prior to that he had a Brown & Sharp manual one
[18:55:11] <JT-Shop-> andypugh: do you have a 7i64?
[18:55:44] <andypugh> Yes.
[18:56:02] <JT-Shop-> is there something special to use it with a 5i25?
[18:56:04] <andypugh> It's a pretty nice board
[18:56:17] <JT-Shop-> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=49&id=21529#21536
[18:56:30] <andypugh> No, it should just plug straight in to the sserial port.
[18:56:35] <andypugh> And I am already there...
[18:56:46] <JT-Shop-> ok I see the catch 22 "to be connected"
[18:57:00] <Jymmm> Anybody got one of these I could borrow? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtNBToF297k
[18:57:49] <JT-Shop-> I used to make them but didn't keep one for myself
[18:58:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: Not a pallet wrapper, a knotting device
[18:59:30] <Tom_itx> will that work on my shoes?
[18:59:54] <Jymmm> yes
[19:01:49] <JT-Shop-> hell they show you how they do it so with a hammer and a screwdrive you could make one Jymmm
[19:02:18] <Tom_itx> you could even use the screwdriver you use as a chisel too
[19:02:20] <Jymmm> lol
[19:02:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: Ok, I will, but you program the g-code for a monkey fist knot
[19:03:13] <JT-Shop-> no problem Jymmm
[19:03:26] <Tom_itx> use a 5 axis with a gripper
[19:03:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: have you seen a monkey fist knot?
[19:03:51] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[19:04:05] <Tom_itx> i try not to get all tied up in knots
[19:04:28] <Tom_itx> i know enough to keep from falling out of a tree and that's about it
[19:04:30] <Jymmm> http://www.animatedknots.com/monkeysfist/index.php
[19:05:09] <JT-Shop-> aww they cheat
[19:05:34] <Jymmm> the u bracket, yeah
[19:05:39] <Tom_itx> what's that used for? whacking someone in the head?
[19:05:53] <JT-Shop-> yea, we would put a 1" nut in the center
[19:06:16] <JT-Shop-> and try like hell to hit the deck hand on the tug
[19:10:15] <Jymmm> Eeeeeeeeeesh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJGhRLqa7N8
[19:10:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-: There's a job for ya
[19:10:49] <Jymmm> one link at a time
[19:12:26] <JT-Shop-> that one is a piece of pie
[19:13:01] <Jymmm> ?
[19:26:36] <andypugh> I can tie a monkey's fist. In fact I tend to do it any time I am bored and there is a bit of rope lying about.
[19:27:02] <Jymmm> =)
[19:31:35] <tjb1> Whats the chance of them being open tomorrow?
[20:10:01] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fabco-Air-Pancake-Line-MP5x1x3x1ft-NR-Multi-power-Cylinder-/170869195670?pt=Pneumatic_Hydraulic_Valves_Parts&hash=item27c8990396&_uhb=1#ht_2173wt_1041
[20:10:40] <Connor> That look like a good air cylinder for Power draw bar?
[20:11:34] <Connor> I think they ebayer is wrong on the stroke and bore size.. It's 5" bore, by 1" stroke. x 3 stage push 1 stage pull.
[20:12:55] <Connor> Never mind.. too big.. at 100 PSI just 1 stage is over 1900 lbs.
[20:15:39] <jdh> how much do you need?
[20:15:49] <Connor> 2000 or so.. total. :)
[20:18:57] <jdh> the powrr drawbar will detract from the beauty of the machine.
[20:20:37] <Connor> Nahh.. I'll put a metal cover around it...
[20:22:17] <Connor> The size Hoss has on his is rather large..
[20:24:24] <jdh> he says keep the drives I have. The Keling guy says get 5056d
[20:24:38] <Connor> HUh?
[20:25:26] <jdh> I asked both about getting new drives
[20:25:47] <jdh> (hoss amd keling)
[20:25:55] <Connor> Oh. ROFL.
[20:26:08] <Connor> What's the issue with the ones you have ?
[20:26:44] <jdh> they are fairly hot. somewhat noisy.
[20:26:50] <jdh> I a
[20:26:55] <Connor> I wouldn't mind switching to digital ones..
[20:27:03] <Tom_itx> new drives?
[20:27:05] <Tom_itx> for what?
[20:27:22] <jdh> was thinking about buying one.
[20:27:23] <Connor> Trade my 5056's for 5056D's .:)
[20:27:55] <jdh> geckos are compact
[20:27:58] <Connor> I just want to know what the chief benefit is..
[20:28:06] <Tom_itx> geckos are nice too
[20:28:08] <Connor> These aren't that big.
[20:28:33] <jdh> mine are pretty big
[20:35:31] <Connor> Hmm.. 3" bore by 1" stroke..
[20:35:40] <Connor> 3 stage..
[20:37:20] <Connor> @ 100PSI some where around 2099Lbs
[20:43:01] <Connor> jdh: I was thinking of putting a regulator on my scuba tank (I have 2 steel ones) and using that for my air source.. :)
[20:43:19] <Connor> and just go refill the tanks when ever they get low...
[20:43:32] <Connor> which, would take a very long time with 2200psi in them.
[20:44:26] <jdh> I'll give you $100 for them :)
[20:44:39] <Connor> One is a J valve. :)
[20:44:43] <Connor> or was it K..
[20:44:48] <jdh> nevermimd
[20:44:49] <Connor> Let me go look.. Been a while.
[20:44:59] <Connor> Why?
[20:45:04] <Connor> I said they were OLD>
[20:45:33] <jdh> i just saw steel, not old.
[20:47:06] <jdh> I have 40 or so.
[20:47:09] <Connor> Ahh.
[20:47:22] <Connor> They probably need to by hydroed again.
[20:47:30] <Connor> Both still have air in them.
[20:54:12] <jdh> I have one jumk tank with air for calibtatiom
[20:54:46] <jdh> I have one junk tank with air for calibratiom
[20:54:59] <jdh> android kb
[22:00:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/by8yl.jpg
[22:08:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html
[22:12:17] <Tom_itx> i wrote one for my cad cam
[22:12:28] <Tom_itx> it may do sprockets
[22:12:30] <Tom_itx> i forget
[22:15:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.instructables.com/id/Robotic-claw-business-card/
[22:15:51] <r00t4rd3d> thats where i got that from
[22:22:42] <Jymmm> LOL, it looks like a penis!
[22:34:39] <r00t4rd3d> well then print one out and you can have one!
[22:35:48] <jdh> indeed
[22:36:40] <Tom_itx> wouldn't know what to do with two
[22:37:54] <r00t4rd3d> you have no use for one.
[22:38:13] <r00t4rd3d> besides self mutilation
[22:45:48] <Connor> jdh: Just did some testing... Using clamping bars (had to have 2) over the spindle..
[22:46:34] <Connor> I have some belvile washers I put on the draw bar.. and made a manual actuated one via the quill. OMG it takes a heck of allot of power to release and load..
[22:51:47] <jdh> how much displacement do you need to release the tooling?
[22:51:56] <Connor> Not very much.
[22:52:05] <Connor> 1/4" Maybe??
[22:52:31] <jdh> heh... I got a july4 25% off HF coupon
[22:53:00] <jdh> I need a/c for my garage
[22:55:51] <Connor> I've got a rather large one.. Had for 4 years or better.. NIB still :)
[22:56:02] <r00t-Shed> i got a big one too
[22:56:29] <Jymmm> can you pick it yourself
[22:56:41] <Jymmm> up
[22:57:10] <Connor> mine? Maybe.. Bad back.. haven't tried in a while.
[22:57:34] <Jymmm> Heh, I can't even get my arms around one of mine
[22:58:35] <Jymmm> I think it's the largest 110V window unit you can get... 18,000 BTU
[22:58:58] <r00t-Shed> oh i thought we were still talking penis
[22:59:16] <Jymmm> And yes, it WILL run off my EU2000 generator =)
[22:59:18] <jdh> you need to get out more.
[23:00:01] <Connor> 12,000 BTU, 90 Lbs..
[23:00:22] <Jymmm> http://www.instructables.com/image/FHHZFN5GRFNE7FQ/Designing-the-components.jpg The middle
[23:07:14] <Jymmm> MY bad 15,000 BTU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896140006
[23:07:20] <Jymmm> Works AWESOME!!!
[23:08:14] <Jymmm> Love the energy save feature
[23:08:27] <Connor> Mine is a Frigidare..
[23:11:21] <Connor> I think this unit is WAY too much for the room size...
[23:11:21] <Connor> 77 square feet.. needs less that 5000 BTU...
[23:11:58] <jdh> mine is 12'x25' or so
[23:12:15] <jdh> 10ft ceilings
[23:12:26] <jdh> and leaky garage doors
[23:13:54] <Connor> ceiling is insulated in mine.. Bricks on 2 sides.. no insulation in the walls.. 1 wall is a "inside" wall..
[23:14:13] <Connor> It's piped for air from the home unit.. just no return..
[23:14:20] <jdh> it would be nice if I could close off 1/3 of it
[23:14:21] <Connor> also have the stupid hot water heater in it..
[23:17:29] <tjb1> Think I am becoming immusne to my asthma medicine
[23:18:19] <elmo40> it happens
[23:18:46] <Connor> tjb1: What are you using?
[23:19:01] <tjb1> albuterol sulfate
[23:19:08] <tjb1> Either that or this paint is really killing me
[23:19:20] <Connor> I have sever allergies.. was on prescription meds until the took all the ones I was using off the market..
[23:19:32] <Connor> paint? Ugg.. That can't be helping...
[23:20:05] <tjb1> Ive never gone to get a long term thing like advair or something
[23:20:17] <tjb1> Should probably go get looked at so I can get it, I am using inhaler too much...
[23:21:11] <tjb1> Ever user one of those once a day things?
[23:21:18] <Connor> I have asthma too.. But, was linked to Allergies and crap.. I even managed to get certified for scuba.. go figure..
[23:22:17] <Connor> I just take 1st generation antihistamine now.. 2nd generation stuff didn't do much for me.
[23:23:24] <tjb1> What is 1st gen antihistamine?
[23:24:05] <tjb1> I take Diphenhydramine Hydochloride (generic allergy pills) and it kind of works...
[23:24:14] <Connor> Stayhist, Aerohist.
[23:25:38] <Connor> Contains chlorpheniramine maleate
[23:26:05] <tjb1> You have to rinse your mouth after using advair?
[23:26:06] <Connor> 2nd gen would be like Claratin, Allegra etc..
[23:26:25] <Connor> Never used it.
[23:30:21] <tjb1> Ive tried Claratin and Allegra, they both suck
[23:30:24] <tjb1> Over priced junk
[23:34:59] <Connor> Yup. Couldn't agree more.
[23:38:03] <tjb1> 24 hour my ass also...
[23:38:10] <mcenter> I have had luck with Fluonase. But, I only use it for my allergy seasons.
[23:38:15] <tjb1> This generic stuff is the only stuff I found that works
[23:38:22] <tjb1> Generic benadryl
[23:39:06] <mcenter> Benadryl can make me sleepy, unless I need to sleep.
[23:40:11] <Valen> we got some dymatap night time
[23:40:34] <Valen> man it made both me and the missus have crazypants feever dreams
[23:45:57] <tjb1> Hopefully when I am done painting my asthma will calm down
[23:49:14] <r00t4rd3d> smoke a cigarette
[23:50:12] <tjb1> Ha no thanks
[23:52:44] <tjb1> Anyone have a down draft on their plasma table?