#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-28

[00:56:37] <tjb1> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70163119
[00:56:47] <tjb1> Does that mean 5 pieces that are 6ft long?
[02:10:01] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:11:50] <samkan> Hello all,
[02:12:09] <samkan> I need to merge two hal file can anyone please suggest me a solutions?
[03:02:07] <Loetmichel> mornim'
[03:04:18] <micges> hi
[05:17:42] <jthornton> morning
[05:24:59] <r00t4rd3d> i hate being artificially awoken.
[05:25:43] <jthornton> I've not set an alarm clock in 20 years and don't wear a watch
[06:02:27] <jdh> I haven't set one since last night
[06:11:25] <JT-Shop> lol
[06:11:48] <JT-Shop> going to Hannigans today
[08:27:45] <skunkworks> chirp chirp
[08:30:20] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeWPoP3T5U
[08:36:35] <mozmck> Anyone here familiar with a G&L NumeriMite?
[08:40:12] <skunkworks> Convert it to linuxcnc! ;)
[08:40:16] <skunkworks> sorry - no.
[08:41:11] <mozmck> There's one near me for cheap with the controls removed. It says box ways and very heavy duty.
[08:41:35] <mozmck> Is there a chance it has hydraulics instead of ball-screws?
[08:54:38] <cradek> sorry, no idea, but the list really might know. there are some guys who seem to know old equipment really well.
[09:02:13] <pcw_home> Lots of manuals for sale but I dont see any direct info
[09:02:48] <cradek> mozmck: near enough to just go look at?
[09:03:19] <pcw_home> looks old enough that it might be hydraulic, can you ask the seller/look?
[09:03:53] <cradek> beware it could have ballscrews AND hydraulic motors, like skunkworks's
[09:04:47] <cradek> (it's cool that resolvers aren't the obstacle they used to be)
[09:05:21] <Gevallen_Engel> morning :)
[09:06:43] <mozmck> I can go look at it - just thought I'd see if someone knew something about them first. They want $850 for it.
[09:06:43] <micges> afternoon :)
[09:08:56] <mozmck> It's not like I'm bored and need another project though :)
[09:09:42] <cradek> stuff that old always has a slooooow spindle
[09:09:43] <Gevallen_Engel> http://imgur.com/a/ACozl I picked one up awhile ago, not much progress though other than learning
[09:10:56] <skunkworks> Gevallen_Engel: what was it in its previous life?
[09:11:42] <Gevallen_Engel> a sagian multipette
[09:12:06] <jdh> that's what I was thinking it was.
[09:12:21] <Gevallen_Engel> I also have a packard multiprobe but its got nothing on that in terms of being overbuilt
[09:12:21] <skunkworks> mozmck: They keep coming back to a 'drill and tap' machine
[09:17:23] <mozmck> Ok, here's a link. If someone else wants it real bad that's fine with me! http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/for/3087448391.html
[09:18:13] <cradek> nice size!
[09:18:47] <cradek> I wonder if the head moves, or is it just that really long quill?
[09:19:10] <Gevallen_Engel> damn, thats quite a bit of machine for 850
[09:19:38] <mozmck> Looks like a nice size to me. In the second picture it looks like there are ways for the head to move.
[09:19:49] <cradek> ah you're right
[09:20:23] <cradek> haha the "numeripoint" logo has a TRANSISTOR
[09:20:29] <mozmck> I'd like to get something like this sometime. Right now I'm strapped for cash and time, but might could manage before long.
[09:20:39] <mozmck> :) new technology!
[09:20:45] <pcw_home> though it does look rather hydraulicy
[09:21:00] <syyl> and heavy ;)
[09:21:09] <Gevallen_Engel> http://www.incredilution.com/2011/01/engineering-to-save-5000/ found this to be kinda interesting
[09:21:12] <syyl> looks like you cant do anything on it without a forklift
[09:21:23] <cradek> I don't see any sign of motors
[09:21:27] <pcw_home> heavy is good once its moved
[09:21:48] <mozmck> There looks to be a hydraulic pump on top, which makes me wonder....
[09:21:57] <cradek> I could BARELY move my machine that size with two very determined people and crowbars
[09:21:58] <syyl> maybe hydraulic cylinders as drives?
[09:22:00] <Gevallen_Engel> It had me wondering that the sagian was sturdy enough to pull it off on a smaller scale.
[09:22:17] <mozmck> I have a non-CNC mill that weighs about 6500 I believe. It was a pain to move.
[09:22:36] <syyl> moved a surface grinder, 1,5 tons last year
[09:22:44] <syyl> pita without proper equipment
[09:24:20] <archivist> jack,levers,wood and rollers(scaffold tube)
[09:25:10] <syyl> we had two machine jacks and a small handpulled pallet mover
[09:26:23] <syyl> that beast was kinda top heavy..
[09:26:49] <skunkworks> we drill holes in the floor for pull points.
[09:27:06] <skunkworks> water pipe also works good as a rolling medium
[09:27:09] <syyl> haha, have seen that in a friends shop :D
[09:27:22] <syyl> first he used his big ass shaper as an anchorpoint
[09:27:28] <syyl> and then drilled holes
[09:27:46] <cradek> I have a very large tree in the right place
[09:27:53] <skunkworks> heh
[09:28:09] <cradek> tree - little door - [SHOP] - big door
[09:28:20] <syyl> perfect :D
[09:28:41] <skunkworks> I don't think we have done that in a while.. We have a small forklift that lifts most things. (not all)
[09:28:58] <archivist> I make wooden tracks to go over rough ground
[09:33:12] <skunkworks> http://www.equipmatching.com/used_equipment/6/17/280704.php
[09:33:35] <skunkworks> 1967 - ball screws with a numeripoint control....
[09:34:00] <syyl> mh, that machine has a pretty wide speed range
[09:34:03] <syyl> up to 1320 rpm
[09:34:21] <syyl> when you want to use a 2mm endmill ;)
[09:34:36] <cradek> 6.9 RPM !!
[09:35:39] <cradek> skunkworks: that looks like a tiny version of stuart's
[09:35:46] <skunkworks> but you can put a 12" shell mill in it...
[09:36:11] <cradek> skunkworks: maybe his was also numeripoint?? it was resolver/linear scale/analog dc servo
[09:36:58] <skunkworks> I don't know. For some reason - I cannot find any real info on the numerimite.. I wonder if that isn't exatly how it is spelled.
[09:37:21] <cradek> the name is in the photo
[09:39:50] <skunkworks> hmmm - looks like that is how it is spelled
[09:40:04] <skunkworks> my google foo has failed me
[09:45:04] <skunkworks> looks like it might be only 2 axis positioning.
[09:48:23] <Gevallen_Engel> skunkworks, http://www.umanuals.com/images/detailed/3/Giddings-Lewis-Bickford-NumeriMite-Drill-Instruction-Cover.jpg ?
[09:57:06] <Gevallen_Engel> http://www.google.com/patents/US3478624.pdf
[09:57:17] <Gevallen_Engel> which got me to that, might be what youre looking for
[10:26:14] <taiden> morning gents
[10:26:52] <taiden> having some issues with nested subroutines :)
[10:30:44] <taiden> JT-Shop: do you have a minute?
[10:31:18] <archivist> put something on a pastebin and ask the real question
[10:34:42] <taiden> yep
[10:36:21] <taiden> http://pastebin.com/t6UDwB0H
[10:36:32] <taiden> I have part_base.ngc in my subroutines directory
[10:36:53] <taiden> when I try to call it from my fixture.ngc file it says it doesn't know what o<face> is (lol)
[10:37:21] <taiden> so i figure that those first subroutines are not visible when o<part_base> is called in this manner
[10:37:55] <taiden> that paste is part_base.ngc
[10:39:41] <archivist> I think it is one routine per file http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#_calling_files
[10:40:48] <taiden> alright
[10:40:51] <taiden> so
[10:40:57] <jdh> you should be able to turn your bore/face/turn to numbers and it would work like that
[10:41:17] <taiden> could I also just make those separate subroutine files? since I will probably use them later
[10:46:44] <jdh> that is my understanding, but I have never done it.
[11:47:09] <taiden> i dont think that the numbered subroutines works
[11:47:20] <taiden> hm
[11:48:39] <jdh> they have worked for me.
[11:50:23] <taiden> not that they never work
[11:50:34] <taiden> that they dont allow me to call a subroutine that contains other subroutines
[11:51:30] <taiden> i have this gcode file that works perfectly but whenever i try to call it from within my fixture ngc it just breaks and i think it's because emc2 doesn't particularly enjoy subroutine files that call other subroutines
[11:52:17] <jdh> are the subs in descending nesting order in the file?
[11:52:49] <taiden> it's o<part_base> which contains o100, o101, o102
[11:53:02] <taiden> and from my fixture file i am trying to do o<part_base> call
[11:53:32] <taiden> part_base.ngc is in my subroutines folder which is known to be working
[11:54:08] <jdh> I had some seemingly strange ordering problem with multiple subs.
[11:54:22] <jdh> they had to be in the file before they were called.
[11:54:31] <taiden> yeah, i have them at the beginning of the file
[11:54:47] <taiden> the ngc file works perfectly fine if it's not being called from the fixture ngc
[11:54:57] <jdh> and if sub2 calls sub1, sub1 has to be in the file before sub2
[11:56:06] <taiden> yes
[11:56:17] <taiden> i'll just pastebin the code
[11:58:31] <gmagno> Hello! :) "Can't run a program when not homed" Why?? I've already done Home axis! :-S
[11:58:40] <taiden> http://pastebin.com/YTBLjCmN
[11:58:46] <taiden> home again!
[11:58:53] <gmagno> didn't work
[11:58:57] <gmagno> tryed many times
[11:58:59] <jdh> gmagno: do all the axes have the homed thing by them?
[11:58:59] <taiden> make sure the bmw looking icon is next to each axis
[11:59:30] <gmagno> jdh, :-o
[11:59:35] <gmagno> jdh, thanks a lot!!
[11:59:53] <gmagno> jdh, sometimes I feel really stupid
[11:59:56] <gmagno> :-S
[12:00:02] <jdh> me too!
[12:00:27] <taiden> me four!
[12:01:40] <taiden> "unable to open file 102"
[12:04:31] <gmagno> :D
[12:06:07] <gmagno> DAMN it's really working!! hehehehe I was getting some "RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task1" errors, but not anymore, and have no idea what I've done... The fact is that it is working :D
[12:06:37] <taiden> its a good feeling
[12:06:52] <taiden> so im pretty sure that when I call part_base from the subroutines directory
[12:06:59] <taiden> it's ignoring everything in the file other than that subroutine
[12:07:06] <gmagno> i'm gonna test with some simple patters now, to see if the motors are really moving as they should (i'm doing some tests off the CNC structure. Just with the electronics)
[12:07:34] <jdh> probably true. split the others in to named subs and call them that way?
[12:07:49] <taiden> sigh haha
[12:07:52] <taiden> yeah
[12:07:59] <taiden> can't i just do an include of some sort?
[12:08:04] <taiden> would make things so much easier
[12:08:31] <jdh> yeah
[12:08:58] <taiden> i can't seem to find it in documentation
[12:09:05] <jdh> make up an m4 file and make axis use m4 as a filter
[12:09:50] <taiden> any search in the docs for m4 just gives me spindle start mcode
[12:10:58] <jdh> m4 is a macro processor... man m4
[12:11:16] <taiden> no manual entry for m4 heh
[12:11:24] <jdh> wow
[12:11:32] <taiden> just another day mucking around in linux haha
[12:11:47] <jdh> I thought everything had m4. Never used it for anything other than sendmail though.
[12:12:14] <taiden> there must be some way to do an inline include with emc2
[12:12:19] <taiden> seems so trivial
[12:12:59] <jdh> I don't think there is.
[12:13:14] <taiden> wwjdhd
[12:14:25] <jdh> make it work.
[12:15:34] <taiden> im' on it!
[12:18:48] <Tom_itx> cradek where are you located?
[12:19:11] <Tom_itx> you mentioned stewart's machine above and i thought you may be nearby
[12:24:53] <Tom_itx> morning? andypugh
[12:25:45] <taiden> jdh: I put the subroutines in separate files and it works
[12:26:03] <taiden> i'm not thrilled with the method but the result is perfectly fine and that's all that matters!
[12:26:45] <jdh> things that work are better than things that don't work, even if they don't work in the way you want them to work.
[12:27:07] <mazafaka> Heh, have to realise that 33'' tyres for regular axles of this vehicle is the maximal leaving the rig being reliable, and 35'' for portal axles.
[12:27:54] <mazafaka> s/portal axles/geared axles
[12:34:27] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Very much evening. 1823
[12:45:47] <andypugh> mazafaka: Aren't the two things equivalent? or are portal a subset of geared?
[12:59:19] <tjb1> andypugh: you here?
[13:05:39] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[13:11:53] <Jymmm> syyl_: Did you say you deal with plastic extrusion by chance?
[13:13:52] <andypugh> tjb1: I wasn't
[13:14:15] <Jymmm> tjb1: He's still not
[13:14:32] <Jymmm> tjb1: only in spirit
[13:14:59] <tjb1> Do your elo touchscreens hiss?
[13:15:34] <Jymmm> Is that a snake on your touchscreen, or are you just happy to see me?
[13:15:37] <andypugh> Not that I have noticed. But I only have one
[13:16:00] <Jymmm> tjb1: like contonous staticy sound?
[13:16:05] <tjb1> Yes
[13:16:11] <andypugh> But it is possibe you can hear a backlight inverter if your ears are a lot younge than mine.
[13:16:20] <Jymmm> sounds liek the high voltage inverter board
[13:17:17] <tjb1> Its really annoying
[13:17:28] <Jymmm> tjb1: easy enough to replace once you find the PCB
[13:17:34] <andypugh> Can you go to a shop and see if they all do it?
[13:17:48] <tjb1> Replace what? the whole board?
[13:17:49] <IchGuckLive> msg NickServ identify Nimitz
[13:18:05] <andypugh> If you can hear it over the noise of your CNC machine then I suspect it is not right.
[13:18:35] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: your passwords suck, I'd suggest you change it to something far more secure and difficult
[13:19:10] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: thats the way it is
[13:19:18] <tjb1> Time to message the seller
[13:19:24] <andypugh> tjb1: The inverter boards are generally separate: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400299816740
[13:19:31] <tjb1> If they think I am paying return shipping they are in for a paypal dispute :)
[13:20:53] <andypugh> <heads off to the workshop>
[13:20:59] <alex4nder> tjb1: don't go nuts, it could have been damaged in shipping. I've sold stuff on eBay and the buyer got it damaged, and they flipped the fuck out and assumed giant conspiracy theories.
[13:21:23] <tjb1> I thought linuxcnc had touchscreen drivers installed?
[13:22:17] <Jymmm> tjb1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--4U4BkulC0
[13:26:29] <tjb1> Is linuxcnc 32bit?
[13:28:18] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[13:28:58] <tjb1> I downloaded the one built with ubuntu
[13:31:16] <tjb1> Well I will sort this out with the seller first
[13:32:02] <IchGuckLive> witch are you locking for main woraroud just miling
[13:32:36] <tjb1> ??
[13:33:57] <IchGuckLive> Main use of linuxcnc is
[13:34:18] <tjb1> Plasma
[13:34:27] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: Just FYI.... you want "which", not "witch" (flying broom and tall black hat)
[13:37:27] <Jymmm> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bkxOo41VSg&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[13:44:01] <tjb1> This sucks that the monitor doesnt work right...
[13:45:32] <jdh> doesn't work right or is just loud?
[13:47:21] <tjb1> Well I tried with OS X and everything was backwards and I dont feel like playing with Linux
[13:47:56] <IchGuckLive> Someones knows if i can grab the LF in Gedit
[13:48:21] <archivist> \n
[13:48:56] <jdh> which osx?
[13:50:07] <IchGuckLive> archivist: THANKS B) :D
[13:52:17] <tjb1> lion
[13:53:59] <jdh> that has the backwards touchpad thing?
[13:55:39] <jdh> never spent much time on osx, but lots of elo's in windows. The calibration usually makes them perfect.
[13:57:42] <tjb1> Well the seller is decent
[13:57:59] <tjb1> I called and he is sending a replacment out today and I send it back, tell them how much shipping was and they will refund shipping
[13:58:16] <jdh> nice.
[13:58:19] <jdh> how much was it?
[13:58:24] <tjb1> 71.34
[13:58:36] <jdh> cheap, small?
[13:58:59] <tjb1> 15"
[13:59:04] <tjb1> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190691418362&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123#ht_1210wt_1398
[13:59:15] <tjb1> Perfect for a cnc controller
[13:59:33] <tjb1> Also got the guy to ship it normal fedex, smartpost took over a week
[14:02:01] <spangledboy> Hi. I've been trying to register on the linuxcnc.org forum without success - is there a problem with it ATM?
[14:04:38] <skunkworks> spangledboy: do you have a gmail account?
[14:07:08] <tjb1> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70163119
[14:07:10] <tjb1> Buy it up
[14:07:13] <tjb1> incorrect price :)
[14:08:25] <spangledboy> skunkworks: yes, I do have one, but I just tried again using my work email - it's let me through now. Thanks anyway!
[14:16:07] <Jymmm> tjb1: cap not included =)
[14:16:18] <Jymmm> (ususally)
[14:16:20] <tjb1> Its over $100 in the catalog for what I just posted
[14:16:23] <tjb1> :)
[14:16:38] <tjb1> I dont need no stinkin cap
[14:16:39] <tjb1> :P
[14:17:06] <Jymmm> which is $21
[14:17:29] <tjb1> Still winning
[14:18:52] <tjb1> See what ends up in the mail
[14:18:56] <tjb1> It says 5 pieces
[14:19:46] <tjb1> T-slots is pretty bad about answering emails
[14:20:54] <tjb1> Jymmm: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/157235-how_parfact_drawing_image.html
[14:22:42] <Jymmm> tjb1: what am I suppose to be looking at here?
[14:22:50] <tjb1> What does it say?
[14:23:04] <Jymmm> why would I know (or care)?
[14:23:30] <tjb1> Because you should.
[14:23:42] <Jymmm> and the guy is from India *shrug*
[14:23:57] <IchGuckLive> as we all discussed yesterday O-word Call i made a quick Vid Tutorial on it to explain
[14:23:59] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHWBy7VA9DA
[14:28:50] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: did you see me working with the traktor in the garden -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT1gt9lhbnM
[14:29:55] <tjb1> Thats one hell of a rototiller
[14:30:28] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: large garden large mashine
[14:30:40] <tjb1> *machine :)
[14:30:41] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by today
[14:30:46] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: GREAT! You can come over and do mine now =)
[14:31:06] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: i hear that 100times a Year
[14:32:08] <tjb1> I wonder what translator extremetools used
[14:33:00] <andypugh> tjb1: My touchscreen was backwards _and_ 90 degrees out when I first plugged it in. A calibration sorted it out.
[14:33:18] <tjb1> I checked the calibration, nothing about orientation
[14:33:25] <tjb1> or is this software calibration?
[14:35:49] <andypugh> Is that IchGuckLive's 5-axis foam cutter? http://youtu.be/wT_ndXDZ0DU
[14:38:14] <tjb1> Now the monitor wont even display anything...
[14:39:15] <tjb1> Turns on for a second then back off
[14:39:54] <andypugh> Are the screws done up in the connector?
[14:40:28] <andypugh> tjb1: And yes, I meant the software cal.
[14:40:32] <tjb1> http://www.fixya.com/support/t757506-elo_touch_screen_wont_stay
[14:40:41] <tjb1> Heh so it wont stay on because of bad backlight inverter
[14:40:44] <tjb1> and hence the noise
[14:42:15] <tjb1> Well I got it on and it sure is making a noise...
[14:47:18] <Tom_itx> go down to your local hardware store and get a new backlight inverter
[14:48:25] <tjb1> your kidding right
[14:48:34] <tjb1> buy a backlight inverter at a local hardware store?
[14:48:46] <Tom_itx> i presume you need to use the 'touchy' interface if you plan on using a touch screen with linuxcnc
[14:49:07] <Tom_itx> you just never know if i am nor not :)
[14:53:03] <tjb1> yeah no hardware store around here would sell that
[14:54:23] <tjb1> I got it working correctly andypugh
[14:59:44] <tjb1> Color is a little off :)
[15:18:21] <Nick1> hi, im trying to ./configure make in suse 12 but it says im missing a c compiler?
[15:26:59] <archivist> use the livecd or suffer as you need a real time kernel and follow http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_10_04_or_8_04_from_source
[15:28:03] * Jymmm chuckles
[15:31:13] <archivist> just being honest
[15:32:07] <Jymmm> archivist: I COMPLETELY understand, that's why I chuckled. Either take what it is, or suffer the agony getting on another distro.
[15:33:47] <archivist> getting stuck at no C compiler means exceeeeeeding difficulty at adding a realtime kernel
[15:33:49] <tjb1> Ah its wonderful being able to call a shipping company and asking them to hold for pickup and they are like "Sure!"
[15:34:39] <djdelorie> even better when they offer to put it in your pickup with one of their forklifts :-)
[15:36:27] <archivist> I did that once, the vehicle was a little unsteady on the way home
[15:37:03] <Jymmm> djdelorie: and you hae a fubar'ed forklift driver
[15:37:48] <archivist> had to remove the roof to get the mill out the rear when I got back home
[15:39:04] <djdelorie> I had that problem with an upright air compressor. HD put it in the truck, we tied it down nice and good, and it was 7" too tall for my garage.
[15:39:08] <Jymmm> archivist: sawzall?
[15:39:17] <djdelorie> had to disassemble it anyway as it was too heavy to carry to the cellar anyway.
[15:39:29] <archivist> Jymmm, an older version of http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/36-major-milling-drilling-machine.html
[15:39:55] <Jymmm> oh, heh. I was thinking BP sized.
[15:39:57] <archivist> with a different badge
[15:40:28] <Jymmm> http://www.warco.co.uk/36-99-thickbox/major-milling-drilling-machine.jpg
[15:40:35] <archivist> was glad to get rid, they were/are rubbish
[15:40:47] <Jymmm> not useful at all?
[15:41:08] <archivist> round column and not square
[15:41:15] <Jymmm> ah
[15:41:50] <archivist> and poor clamping of column and quill
[15:41:53] <tjb1> Im just picking up my extrusions but have you ever tried to have UPS or Fedex hold something?
[15:41:58] <tjb1> Like pulling teeth
[15:42:08] <jdh> tjb1: click 'hold for pickup'
[15:42:12] <jdh> takes seconds
[15:42:15] <tjb1> Thats not offered around me
[15:42:44] <djdelorie> I've had both ups and fedex hold for pickup
[15:43:17] <tjb1> The 800 number told me the local fedex doesnt have a phone when I asked for the phone number
[15:44:21] <djdelorie> perhaps you have to give instructions to the shipper, not fedex, so they have to call you?
[15:44:44] <jdh> fedex.com, track, 'hold'
[15:44:45] <djdelorie> i.e. have the shipper put "hold for pickup, call 555-1212 to schedule" or something
[15:45:10] <tjb1> They said the shipper required an attempt at delivery
[15:45:16] <djdelorie> ah! right, I remember that checkbox.
[15:45:28] <tjb1> I told the guy to call and have it held, I called fedex again and they said that no one can have it held without an attempt
[15:45:35] <djdelorie> have you tried talking to the shipper?
[15:45:40] <tjb1> This was a while ago
[15:45:42] <tjb1> Last year
[15:45:45] <djdelorie> weird
[15:46:07] <tjb1> Its like talking to verizon customer service, every call is a new rep and every rep says something else
[15:46:14] <djdelorie> so let them attempt and pick it up the next day :-)
[15:46:16] <tjb1> I did get one to email the local fedex and have it held
[15:46:35] <tjb1> The local fedex called and said they had emails saying attempt delivery and emails saying hold and they werent sure
[15:46:51] <tjb1> So apparantly some assholes at fedex were telling them not to hold it :)
[15:47:26] <djdelorie> well, next time check the "hold" box on fedex.com and let us know if it works :-)
[15:47:40] <Jymmm> tjb1: damn dude, you are all bent out of shape over shipping, touch screen, now package hold
[15:47:44] <skunkworks> tjb1: I think you need to figure out a way to decompress... :)
[15:48:01] <tjb1> Living in the middle of no where sucks.
[15:48:06] <Jymmm> I know, ship yourself somewhere nice =)
[15:48:07] * djdelorie is lucky, my wife's workplace has loading docks and forklifts, I just have stuff sent there.
[15:48:32] <skunkworks> tjb1: where is nowhere?
[15:48:38] <tjb1> central pa
[15:48:51] <tjb1> Not even highspeed internet here :)
[15:49:01] <djdelorie> I have a t-shirt that says "Deerfield NH - it's not the end of the world, but we can see it from here."
[15:50:12] <Jymmm> Heh "Central PA" map says "State Game Lands Number 13". When you have to number lands that pretty much sounds like bfe to me =)
[15:50:40] <Jymmm> But REALLY BFE when you get to Area 51,52,53
[15:51:38] <Jymmm> Hourly flights departing Vegas to Area 51, so not THAT much bfe =)
[15:51:53] <Jymmm> maybe every 20m
[15:51:56] <tjb1> Im surrounded by state game lands
[15:52:17] <Jymmm> So go watch some deer playing or sumtin
[15:52:34] <tjb1> Haha...deer
[15:52:40] <tjb1> About 5 in the whole state
[15:52:52] <tjb1> Insurance companies keep releasing coyotes
[15:53:01] <Jymmm> State Game Lands Number 66.
[15:53:23] <Jymmm> http://goo.gl/maps/6n6o
[15:53:53] <Jymmm> WE HAVE A WINNER!!! "State Game Lands Number 240"
[15:54:21] <Jymmm> tjb1: You are now OFFICIALLY in BFE, congradulations!!!
[15:54:31] <tjb1> search 15757
[15:54:36] <tjb1> thats the zipcode im in
[15:55:32] <Jymmm> tjb1: Just feel lucky you're not north of I80 =)
[15:55:45] <tjb1> i go to school in 17701
[15:55:49] <tjb1> thats north of 80 :)
[15:55:51] <tjb1> little philly
[15:56:40] <Jymmm> http://goo.gl/maps/U322 Area 51
[15:58:46] <JT-Shop> taiden: yep
[16:03:41] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:26:29] * JT-Shop goes to have a nice nap to recover from the heat
[16:36:20] <andypugh> Turned out nice: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JTR29Tkv4zcmFph_DvNYRdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:37:16] <Connor> andypugh: wHAT IS IT ?
[16:37:29] <andypugh> The clues are all there :-)
[16:37:50] <Connor> I'm thinking a encoder..
[16:38:26] <andypugh> Pretty much, yes.
[16:38:50] <andypugh> It holds the Hall sensors and the motor power too.
[16:39:02] <Connor> Ah.
[16:39:05] <Connor> For what motor?
[16:40:30] <andypugh> This onw: http://youtu.be/WEI6TBwydqs
[16:46:52] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, find all the bomb testing pot holes around there
[16:47:07] <Tom_itx> they're not far away
[16:47:43] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's sexy, what's it for?
[16:48:07] <andypugh> I will tell you when the patent application is in.
[16:48:11] <andypugh> :-)
[16:48:14] <Tom_itx> haha
[16:48:22] <Tom_itx> did you make the board too?
[16:48:26] <Tom_itx> err have it done
[16:49:08] <andypugh> I had those nice people at Seeedstudio make it for me. At $14 for 10 delivered it's not worth staining the kitchen sink.
[16:49:23] <Tom_itx> no i knew it was mfg
[16:49:34] <Tom_itx> just didn't know if you did the design
[16:49:42] <andypugh> Yes, my own design.
[16:49:58] <Tom_itx> did you use eagle or something else? geda...
[16:51:09] <Tom_itx> i see spots for some hall sensors :)
[16:51:23] * Tom_itx keeps prying...
[16:56:09] <andypugh> I used DesignSpark. I want to get into gEDA, but the learning curve is rather steep.
[16:56:58] <andypugh> I don't get on with the Egle UI. DesignSpark is more convetional (and is also free with no size limits)
[16:58:12] <Tom_itx> i've used eagle a long time so i'm rather used to it
[17:00:37] <djdelorie> I'm usually around on oftc:#geda nights (andy: i.e. when you're asleep) to help with the learning curve.
[17:00:57] <djdelorie> although we admit gEDA is in the "hard to learn, powerful once you do" category.
[17:01:08] <PCW> I tried Eagle a long time ago and found its UI rather hostile (a HUI ? )
[17:01:33] <djdelorie> I found Kicad entirely non-intuitive, and it's touted as the "easy to learn" option. Maybe I'm biased.
[17:01:53] <Tom_itx> for the price it's hard to beat
[17:02:10] <djdelorie> it still costs your time in the long run
[17:02:22] <Tom_itx> it doesn't compete with the high end cad packages
[17:02:49] <Tom_itx> even with them you still have parts to make
[17:02:49] <mozmck> I think intuitive depends a lot on expectations...
[17:02:55] <Tom_itx> they're not all provided
[17:02:59] <djdelorie> IMHO tools should be evaluated based on the post-learning-curve ease of use. I mean, how many of us avoid a great mill because of the one-time setup effort?
[17:03:40] <djdelorie> I tried eagle because it had a huge parts library. First part I used had the wrong pin spacing (a DB25 connector).
[17:03:58] <PCW> I usually make my own library objects anyway
[17:04:00] <Tom_itx> djdelorie, how long ago was that?
[17:04:00] <djdelorie> Nearly all EDA packages require you to learn how to make parts, eventually, because they keep inventing new parts ;-)
[17:04:06] <djdelorie> it was a while ago.
[17:04:16] <Tom_itx> their libs have improved alot over the years
[17:04:24] <Tom_itx> they didn't used to have many at all
[17:04:36] <Tom_itx> i've got 3-400 libs now
[17:04:59] <Tom_itx> i must say, element 14 ruined it though
[17:05:16] <djdelorie> I've heard from folks using gEDA in a corporate EDA environment who like the sparse text-based library, because they're going to make their own anyway
[17:05:29] <djdelorie> but, to each their own
[17:05:32] <PCW> and typically with big parts, I make them with a program
[17:05:48] <djdelorie> yeah, geda has lots of library component generator scripts and stuff
[17:05:52] <Tom_itx> PCW what does mesa use?
[17:06:09] <djdelorie> even one or two scrit languages designed specifically for library creation
[17:06:11] <djdelorie> script
[17:06:13] <Tom_itx> altium and pads are nice but cost alot
[17:06:22] <Tom_itx> i really didn't like pads much
[17:06:33] <Tom_itx> and haven't used altium
[17:06:49] <PCW> yeah i just futz with an existing script for new parts mainly
[17:08:18] <PCW> mung the the spreadsheet into a schem/decal with our MakeBGA script
[17:08:58] <PCW> We use Pads (now Mentor)
[17:09:02] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:09:46] <PCW> Thinking about Altium though
[17:10:08] <Tom_itx> i'm sure they both have comparable high end features
[17:10:12] <alex4nder> Altium is like selling your soul to the devil
[17:10:46] <andypugh> I installed DesignSpark because is it supported and run by RS components and I imagined that it might have a link between the RS part numbers and the component libraries. I was disappointed in that.
[17:11:15] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's what element 14 did with eagle
[17:11:50] <andypugh> Yes, I think RS bought out DesignSpark because Farnell bought out Eagle
[17:13:15] <andypugh> In the UK you tend to either use the RS catalogue or the Farnell one. I don't think all that many people use both.
[17:13:45] <Tom_itx> they're more expensive here so i don't use them much unless they really have a sale going on
[17:18:55] <JT-Shop> PCW: is SoftDMC something you download to the fpga to program how it reacts to inputs?
[17:21:26] <JT-Shop> andypugh: nice encoder bits
[17:22:06] <andypugh> I am pleased with the machined part. So pleased I might have it anodised :-)
[17:22:06] <JT-Shop> is it brass or just the lighting?
[17:22:27] <andypugh> The inner parts of the motor are brass, yes.
[17:22:48] <Tom_itx> ahh is this part of that motor you're working on?
[17:25:08] <andypugh> It is, yes. I had it all together then decided I didn't like the way that the encoder parts and motor cables connected (soldered and glued, basically). Then when I broke a wire I decided on a major rework.
[17:25:44] <Tom_itx> what sort of motor is it?
[17:26:03] <Tom_itx> i made some test pieces for someone that wanted to try their hand at a pancake motor
[17:28:20] <PCW> JT-Shop its an alternate FPGA config that contains a complete motion controller (that is a trajectory generator and a stepgen or encoder/PID --> PWM for servo)
[17:29:29] <JT-Shop> ok, I was looking for some way to have an input make a servo go so many degrees or until a torque is reached
[17:29:32] <andypugh> Tom_itx: It's a brushless motor of LRK construction, 14 magnets, 12 poles.
[17:29:46] <JT-Shop> and git an output if torque is reached
[17:29:54] <JT-Shop> s/git/get
[17:30:23] <Tom_itx> andypugh, this is what they have so far: http://designerthinking.com/pancake.html
[17:31:56] <PCW> Thats possible but still needs a host so theres really not much advantage over HostMot2 unless you need high sample rates (up to 50 KHz or so)
[17:33:00] <JT-Shop> do any of the cards fill the host part? I don't want a PC if possible
[17:35:42] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I have no idea what he is doing towards the end :-)
[17:36:02] <Tom_itx> me either
[17:36:26] <andypugh> I think he needs CNC-milled formers.
[17:36:33] <Tom_itx> trying to wind the wire to end up with 3 or 6 phases
[17:36:38] <Tom_itx> probably so
[17:36:39] <PCW> Not really, they are almost always used with PCs
[17:37:00] <PCW> (but dont need real time)
[17:37:02] <JT-Shop> I guess a 525 motherboard is small enough
[17:37:08] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks Peter
[17:37:12] <Tom_itx> andypugh he doesn't have much to work with
[17:37:30] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, and cheap
[17:37:51] <andypugh> PCW: How much work does the host need to do? Could an Arduino work?
[17:38:07] <PCW> Probably
[17:38:21] <andypugh> Hmm. Raspberry Pi has USB. SO has the 7i43...
[17:38:35] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I'm looking for small and cost effective for a simple task
[17:38:38] <PCW> Yeah USB would work
[17:38:55] <Tom_itx> arm are cost effective for sure
[17:39:07] <JT-Shop> I have an Arduino
[17:39:10] <PCW> what kind of motor drive?
[17:39:29] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is it a mega 328?
[17:39:31] <JT-Shop> I've not determined that yet
[17:40:00] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I'd have to look and see, it's not very old maybe 6 months
[17:40:09] <Tom_itx> probably is hten
[17:40:11] <Tom_itx> then*
[17:40:22] <JT-Shop> PCW: something in the 80-100 watt range
[17:40:31] <PCW> OK
[17:40:55] <PCW> so pretty small
[17:41:19] <JT-Shop> yes, think electric nut driver for small screws
[17:42:12] <PCW> so like a torque wrench?
[17:42:33] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:42:44] <PCW> just one off?
[17:42:59] <JT-Shop> for now
[17:43:13] <JT-Shop> if it works I will need more
[17:43:14] * Tom_itx senses JT-Shop is up to something
[17:43:32] * JT-Shop has an idea :-)
[17:43:50] <djdelorie> you missed the obligatory evil laughter...
[17:43:51] <PCW> we really dont make anything Ideal as most of our stuff is geared for multi-axis
[17:44:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop does it need fwd and rev... full hbridge?
[17:44:21] <JT-Shop> yes
[17:44:35] <JT-Shop> would the 3c20 work with the ardunio?
[17:44:55] <PCW> Yes
[17:45:13] <PCW> but its only 3A peak
[17:45:23] <andypugh> Hmm, JT-Shop. Maybe use _just_ an Arduino? http://youtu.be/oyeJfNg3NfQ
[17:45:51] <andypugh> That's just an Arduino and a 3-phase MOSFET
[17:45:52] <Tom_itx> i was thinking of a controller for electric planes
[17:46:00] <Tom_itx> but i don't think they have reverse
[17:46:07] <Tom_itx> i know someone that made those
[17:46:16] <PCW> Yeah you could just use an Arduino and a HBridge with current sense
[17:46:52] <JT-Shop> thanks, I'll try and figure that out
[17:48:57] <djdelorie> andypugh: that three-phase mosfet is very similar to the inverter chip I use in my bldc board
[17:49:19] <Tom_itx> iirc, this is 3A: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/3995_hbridge/A3995_Hbridge_top.jpg
[17:49:23] <Tom_itx> kinda small
[17:49:43] <PCW> andypugh: did you see on cnczone someones making a sserial remote?
[17:49:52] <djdelorie> and I think the chip I use could be arduino-driven
[17:49:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: If I recall correctly, in that servo drive I had a single channel of PWM into the "enable" pin of an octal buffer, and then just switched on and off the high and low side drivers in a simple sequence.
[17:50:41] <andypugh> PCW: No, I didn't, but I have been tempted to do it myself. (more specifically, I have wondered if you could make an Arduino library to act like a sserial remote)
[17:51:50] <PCW> The firmware updater has some hints if the Arduino cant do 2.5 MB (it changes the baud rate for example)
[17:52:15] <andypugh> I have enough projects though.
[17:52:27] <Tom_itx> aww you need a couple more
[17:53:32] <PCW> the tough part on the remote is all the timing
[17:56:51] <tjb1> Turning the brightness to 20 and I can practially get rid of the static and its now just a high pitched whine
[17:58:10] <jdh> mine goes to 21!
[17:59:47] <andypugh> tjb1: That sounds a lot like the inverter board then. I would be tempted to have a look at it, see if there is anything loose, and possibly smother it in epoxy.
[18:00:05] <tjb1> Well a replacement has been sent out
[18:00:15] <tjb1> The board is almost toast, I have to play with it a while before it will turn on while cold
[18:00:50] <tjb1> What exactly makes the noise, the transformer?
[18:01:59] <Tom_itx> check for bad solder joints
[18:03:43] <andypugh> tjb1: Yes, the transformer. However, if you can hear it then it might be running at a much lower frequency than intended due to a problem elsewhere on the board.
[18:03:55] <tjb1> I cant see how to get the monitor apart
[18:03:59] <tjb1> No screws or anything
[18:04:08] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I think I understand what you said
[18:04:54] <andypugh> JT-Shop: When?
[18:05:13] <andypugh> Are we talking about inverters, or inverters :-)
[18:05:15] <JT-Shop> about the servo drive you had
[18:05:26] <andypugh> Ah, inverters then.
[18:05:41] <JT-Shop> just when I thought I understood...
[18:05:51] <andypugh> Motor inverter :-)
[18:06:07] <JT-Shop> ah ok
[18:06:18] <andypugh> The reason to use the buffer chip was to get 6 channels of PWM all in exact phase.
[18:06:40] <andypugh> Something that the Arduino doesn't seem great at.
[18:06:46] <JT-Shop> I'm a little slow from the heat 350 miles on the bike today and the afternoon was 39C
[18:07:22] <andypugh> As long as you have a proper commutation sequence there is no shoot-through risk, as no phase goes straight from positive to negative without 60 degrees od "off"
[18:07:55] <tjb1> got the cover off
[18:08:33] <andypugh> The complicated part of that board was actually getting the Arduino to _also_ read the Resolver. A motor with encoder and Halls would make it all hugely simpler.
[18:09:02] <Tom_itx> it might be a super task for an xmega
[18:09:07] <tjb1> anything I shouldnt touch in here andypugh
[18:09:19] <Tom_itx> yeah the high voltage stuff
[18:09:31] <andypugh> Don't ask me. Electronics is a mystery to me :-)
[18:09:44] <JT-Shop> I need a solution for the electronic challenged LOL
[18:09:45] <Tom_itx> you will know when you find it
[18:10:10] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, are you trying to commutate 6 phases?
[18:10:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You don't sound like you need a 2kW 600V driver. So it might all be rather easier.
[18:10:56] <JT-Shop> no, I'm trying to spin a servo a number of degrees of rotation and stop on torque
[18:11:04] <Tom_itx> i haven't used any xmegas yet but they seem to be quite the chips for 8bit stuff
[18:11:13] <JT-Shop> andypugh: 100w would be great
[18:11:53] <Tom_itx> 'stop on torque' tells me LAP 'locked antiphase' pwm
[18:12:55] <Tom_itx> i used that method early on, on one of my bots to determine a 45 or 90 degree turn
[18:12:57] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[18:13:01] <Tom_itx> with encoder feedback
[18:13:32] <Tom_itx> it was using a 68332 motorolla chip though
[18:13:42] <JT-Shop> I need for example to turn 720 or until 5 in pounds is reached whatever that would be in current
[18:13:56] <JT-Shop> 720 degrees
[18:15:06] <tjb1> inverter board a long board?
[18:15:13] <Tom_itx> long skinny
[18:15:21] <tjb1> found it
[18:15:45] <jdh> there are lots of instruction pages for fixing inverters
[18:17:09] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It wouldn't be hard to make a 3-phase motor drive shield for the Arduino. Interestingly I don't seem to be able to find one on the Interwebs.
[18:17:32] <andypugh> I guess djdelorie's board would be a good start.
[18:17:48] <Tom_itx> andypugh that's why i suggested the xmegas
[18:17:51] <tjb1> Tom_itx: http://www.pchub.com/uph/laptop/628-32282-7839/SAMPO-QPWBGL945IDG-LCD-Monitor-Inverter.html
[18:17:56] <JT-Shop> is he the one you were talking about yesterday?
[18:18:55] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes
[18:19:46] * JT-Shop looks in the logs
[18:20:42] <tjb1> What should I poke Tom_itx
[18:22:14] <Tom_itx> avoid farm animals
[18:22:35] <Tom_itx> check under a magnifying glass for bad solder joints
[18:22:52] <Tom_itx> or preferrably a binocular microscope
[18:23:15] <tjb1> What makes the noise, the transformer there on the right?
[18:23:32] <Tom_itx> maybe a noisy transistor or the choke on the right
[18:24:08] <Tom_itx> plug it in and listen
[18:24:24] <tjb1> i did but i didnt want to get too close :P
[18:24:29] <tjb1> high voltage marked on it twice
[18:24:51] <Tom_itx> just on the right side i think
[18:25:38] <Tom_itx> https://www.google.com/search?q=lcd+inverter+schematic+diagram&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[18:26:44] <tjb1> i do have a digital stethescope
[18:26:47] <tjb1> try it out
[18:27:39] <Tom_itx> http://dc312.4shared.com/img/QpIo4Wbf/s7/TL494_Inverter_CCFL_LCD_schema.JPG
[18:27:44] <Tom_itx> or similar
[18:29:34] <Tom_itx> http://lcdparts.net/Inverter3D.aspx
[18:30:20] <tjb1> shoulld I try to reflow all joints on trans?
[18:31:15] <Tom_itx> check the caps too
[18:31:20] <Tom_itx> for loose solder joints
[18:31:36] <tjb1> safe once unplugged?
[18:31:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Area51 doens't have bomb testing, Yuma Proving Grounds does.
[18:31:41] <Tom_itx> generally i find big parts are more suseptible to bad reflow because it takes them longer to heat up
[18:32:00] <Tom_itx> Jymmm right but i've see them on google
[18:32:02] <tjb1> im was going to use a soldering iron and hit each joint :P
[18:32:34] <jdh> look for burnt stuff
[18:33:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You see what they want you to see
[18:33:16] <Tom_itx> of course
[18:33:22] <tjb1> everything looks decent
[18:33:31] <Tom_itx> can i fly over area 51 and take my own pictures?
[18:33:37] <Jymmm> no
[18:33:39] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:33:58] <Jymmm> restricted air space afaik
[18:34:06] <Tom_itx> and land
[18:34:20] <Tom_itx> but it doesn't exhist
[18:34:27] <Jymmm> you can get "sorta" close to area 51
[18:34:39] <tjb1> Tom_itx: should I hit the joints with a soldering iron?
[18:34:40] <Tom_itx> not anymore
[18:34:43] <Jymmm> I've driving thru Yuma Proving Grounds though
[18:34:49] <Tom_itx> tjb1 i would
[18:34:58] <Tom_itx> use some flux on them when you do
[18:35:12] <Tom_itx> Jymmm did you come out glowing in the dark?
[18:35:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: sure it does exist. they have flights out of vegas to area51 every 20minutes
[18:35:57] <Tom_itx> i know, they have their own airline and bus service
[18:37:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Notice when you zoom in things are a bit fuzzy? http://goo.gl/maps/AKzF
[18:37:38] <andypugh> JT-Shop: One (or two) of these on an Arduino shield, and using a motor with hall sensors would make for a very inexpensive motor drive. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/motion-motor-control/6248214/
[18:37:56] <JT-Shop> thanks Andy
[18:38:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you up to some brian picking?
[18:38:23] <Jymmm> brain
[18:39:12] <JT-Shop> just trying to find a solution to a problem and yes picking brains
[18:39:13] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I have got rather hung-up on brushless. I guess you could use any of the gazillion simple DC motor driver Arduino shields.
[18:39:28] <Tom_itx> woops, i was gonna tell him that board has 1.5kv on it
[18:40:24] <JT-Shop> this page still points to 2.4 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Pure_Simulator
[18:40:35] <andypugh> Time to log off chaps. I am in Londonderry until sunday now.
[18:40:45] <JT-Shop> i can't seem to find the linuxcnc-sim link
[18:41:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: when it spins the tube for silk screening, is each post have it's own motor typically? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhlfbTIs7s&feature=related
[18:41:55] <JT-Shop> never seen silk spinning
[18:42:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: silk screen PRINTING on tubes =)
[18:43:03] <JT-Shop> looks like the tubes are driven at the print station to me
[18:43:15] <Tom_itx> one motor with a gear that engages when the tube passes over it
[18:43:29] <Tom_itx> the motor mounted under it
[18:43:55] <Jymmm> That video isn't the best example
[18:45:00] <Jymmm> OH, I saw an idler thing raise up
[18:46:07] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rhlfbTIs7s&feature=player_detailpage#t=18s
[18:47:33] <Jymmm> oh phuk me... "contact us for a quote" for a UV Curing lamp.
[18:49:06] <tjb1> still whines like a virgin on wedding night Tom_itx
[18:51:09] <Jymmm> $2300 You frickin kidding me?! http://www.cureuv.com/total-cure-power-shot-1100-uv-curing-system.html
[18:51:26] <Tom_itx> Jymmm want a cheap source?
[18:51:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: high intensity?
[18:51:42] <Tom_itx> go to a cosmetic supply and get one for fingernails
[18:51:43] <Tom_itx> no
[18:51:45] <Tom_itx> also
[18:51:49] <Tom_itx> a fishtank supply
[18:52:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: This is to cure UV Inks
[18:52:15] <Tom_itx> that's what i use silly boy
[18:52:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and your exposure time?
[18:52:56] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch_cure.jpg
[18:53:02] <Tom_itx> oh a while
[18:53:06] <Tom_itx> give or take a few
[18:53:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I need under 3s
[18:53:24] <Tom_itx> then you need to spend the bucks
[18:53:35] <Tom_itx> i saw what the local sign shop has
[18:53:46] <Tom_itx> they run them thru on a conveyor
[18:54:03] <Tom_itx> you could come out with a nice tan
[18:54:16] <Jymmm> heh, there's an idea... used tanning bed
[18:54:33] <Tom_itx> probably not the ideal wavelength
[18:54:43] <Tom_itx> but mine does work
[18:55:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/silkscreen/silk_batch.jpg
[18:55:10] <Jymmm> I used to work for a company that made UV Curing systems for indistrial "dragon" printers, I'm sure they have tiner bulbs
[18:55:44] <Tom_itx> this box i got was from one such system
[18:56:21] <Tom_itx> some Ca company
[19:10:36] <r00t-Shed> anyone use the f-engrave app?
[19:10:44] <r00t-Shed> for text
[19:39:07] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: area those aquarium lights in your wooden fxture?
[19:39:09] <Jymmm> are
[19:43:53] <Tom_itx> UV lights yes
[19:44:04] <Tom_itx> not for above the aquarium
[19:44:32] <Jymmm> what bulbs did you use?
[19:44:43] <Tom_itx> i think anyway, i got them from a friend and i don't know where he had them
[19:44:58] <Tom_itx> iirc they were 15 or 20w
[19:44:58] <Jymmm> so you havent had to replace them yet?
[19:45:02] <Tom_itx> no
[19:45:06] <Jymmm> k
[19:45:12] <Tom_itx> i don't use them enough
[19:45:26] <Jymmm> heh
[19:45:30] <Tom_itx> i can get a number if you need one
[19:46:00] <Tom_itx> you need something stronger if you need a 3 sec bake
[19:46:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Not yet, I need to find out what wattage I'll need. I know where to get 600W/inch bulbs =)
[19:46:57] <taiden> hello brain trust :)
[19:46:59] <Jymmm> they melt alumnum reflectors if the 5HP blower isn't running too =)
[19:47:54] <taiden> so I've got these cylindrical parts I'm doing
[19:48:01] <taiden> and I need to cut one side, flip, and cut the other
[19:48:27] <taiden> i have the first side down pat but I'm trying to figure out how to locate them accurately for the opposite side
[19:48:30] <Tom_itx> can you say 'rotary axis'?
[19:48:38] <taiden> haha too easy!
[19:49:22] <Tom_itx> we used softjaws on alot of 2nd operation parts and machined the part into the jaw with a little gap between them so that when closed it would clamp the part for the 2nd operation
[19:49:59] <taiden> was that on a rotary axis or a fixture?
[19:50:09] <Tom_itx> 8" kurt vise
[19:50:15] <Tom_itx> err 6 whatever...
[19:50:21] <taiden> I see I see
[19:50:32] <Tom_itx> just machine some soft jaws to fit them
[19:50:39] <Tom_itx> then cut your part into the jaws
[19:50:45] <Tom_itx> op 1
[19:50:55] <Tom_itx> then place it in the finished jaws for op 2
[19:51:05] <taiden> how do you mean 'cut into the jaws'
[19:51:26] <taiden> this is hardwood by the way, should have mentioned that before
[19:51:29] <Tom_itx> cut the profile from operation 1 into the jaws so when you flip the part, it fits the jaws perfectly
[19:52:16] <taiden> so i could cut soft jaws that when closed made a circle shape essentially
[19:52:29] <taiden> and use that to clamp and locate the part
[19:52:34] <taiden> here
[19:52:37] <Tom_itx> well you would need some feature of the part that could locate it
[19:52:59] <Tom_itx> so when located it would be 180 degrees upside down
[19:53:03] <taiden> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlPJPaHbfDg
[19:53:16] <taiden> you can see the first operation finished at 5:15 ish
[19:53:40] <Tom_itx> so i gotta watch a video to see a photo?
[19:53:52] <Tom_itx> what's up with ppl and youtube these days :)
[19:53:59] <taiden> i made it for my father
[19:54:11] <taiden> never bothered to snap pictures of the part
[19:54:15] <taiden> :)
[19:54:44] <taiden> that part used to take so long on my little atlas
[19:56:04] <taiden> also you can just jog to 5:15
[19:56:27] <Tom_itx> so what does the 2nd operation need to do? just mill off the bottom with a flycutter or such?
[19:57:00] <taiden> nah it needs to do a pretty complex profile
[19:57:04] <taiden> for aesthetics
[19:57:18] <taiden> so it should be pretty much concentric
[19:57:27] <toastydeath> soft jaws are the second or third most accurate way of holding work in a lathe - far, far more accurate than most people need. it should blend diameters almost seamlessly if you cut the jaws properly
[19:57:28] <Tom_itx> ok, make an insert that fits the inside so when you clamp it, it doesn't break in half
[19:57:32] <taiden> i'd say within 5 thou
[19:57:36] <Tom_itx> then clamp it in the vise like i said
[19:57:47] <toastydeath> soft jaws will be concentric in tenths, not thousanths
[19:58:13] <taiden> but i am such a perfectionist that probably more would go unnoticed
[19:58:16] <toastydeath> put shims between the faces of the jaws and clamp down, then cut the outermost profile into the jaws
[19:58:27] <toastydeath> the shims allow you to preload the jaws
[19:58:32] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:58:37] <Tom_itx> that's the gap i talked about
[19:58:47] <Tom_itx> you don't need alot
[19:58:49] <taiden> oh I see
[19:58:55] <taiden> so it holds them apart
[19:58:56] <toastydeath> ah, i didn't understand what you were referring to, sorry Tom_itx
[19:58:56] <Tom_itx> maybe 1/8" or so
[19:59:08] <toastydeath> taiden, yes - without those shims, two bad things happen
[19:59:10] <taiden> and then when you cut it will close slightly more than the OD
[19:59:19] <Tom_itx> then we 'touched off' on the solid jaw
[19:59:20] <toastydeath> one, the jaw isn't closed and thus isn't accurate as they can flop around
[19:59:25] <Tom_itx> for the x y zero
[19:59:29] <toastydeath> two, you don't have any play in clamping diameter
[19:59:48] <Tom_itx> you do need the insert for the part though or it will crack in half
[19:59:57] <taiden> i could just make jaws out of MDF wouldn't you say?
[20:00:12] <Tom_itx> i don't care what you make them out of
[20:00:14] <toastydeath> most soft jaws will be concentric within .0005
[20:00:29] <Tom_itx> we used aluminum because most of what we cut was aluminum
[20:00:36] <taiden> alright I had another thought that i wanted to run by you two
[20:00:52] <taiden> what if i drilled a 1/4 hole and held the part down with a threaded rod
[20:01:00] <toastydeath> that is, if you keep them clean and undercut the back locating face
[20:01:01] <taiden> orthogonal to the fixture face
[20:01:03] <Tom_itx> that's up to you
[20:01:11] <taiden> and then flipped the part on there
[20:01:19] <Tom_itx> if you have a place on the part you can clamp that doesn't get cut
[20:01:26] <taiden> yes I do
[20:01:37] <taiden> for the jaw method, not so much for the threaded rod idea
[20:01:38] <Tom_itx> you need a couple points to clamp on
[20:02:01] <taiden> that whole outside radius is "finished" in the youtube video
[20:02:02] <Tom_itx> at least
[20:02:15] <taiden> it's slightly elliptical but not by much
[20:02:28] <taiden> maybe 3 thou radius difference
[20:02:40] <taiden> "not by much" for wood haha
[20:05:10] <toastydeath> yes, oversized jaws are preferable to undersized, the jaws will distort to clamp all around the part if the difference is small.
[20:05:10] <toastydeath> also, if it is very oversized, 6 points of contact (on a 3 jaw chuck) is preferable to 3 points of contact
[20:05:10] <toastydeath> (which happens from undersized
[20:05:10] <toastydeath> also, the clamping pressure is relatively continuous for small deviations, so that rings and other thin wall parts suffer virtually no distortion
[20:05:44] <Tom_itx> we had spare lathe jaws too that we would cut to size
[20:06:33] <taiden> lots to think about
[20:06:50] <taiden> any merit in a reverse collet style clamp to fit the inside bore?
[20:08:05] <toastydeath> I always touched off on the part itself by making a facing cut, taking the part out, and measuring it
[20:09:05] <toastydeath> then moving the offset the required amount
[20:09:05] <toastydeath> that way Z0 is always the face of the part and reduces risk of crashing
[20:10:03] <toastydeath> i am a big fan of lathe touchoff via cutting and measurment rather than other methods, it's easier to wind up with the first part known good
[20:10:04] <toastydeath> sorry, i'm not sure how emc does xyz on lathes - on most controls it's XZ rather than XY
[20:10:04] <toastydeath> Z being spindle axis
[20:10:04] <toastydeath> X being diameter
[20:13:04] <toastydeath> anything fairly soft
[20:13:04] <toastydeath> that can hold the clamping force
[20:14:03] <toastydeath> http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&roomid=195&KEY=7A8DB32215CF60DBEBA619928D9372E0
[20:14:03] <toastydeath> that is how i set my coordinate system on lathes
[20:15:04] <Tom_itx> java isn't up to date to view that
[20:15:20] <Tom_itx> but i think we went off the end of the material most of the time
[20:16:03] <toastydeath> also taiden, this is what the ideal soft jaws look like
[20:16:03] <toastydeath> http://www.rockford-industrial.com/Metalworking-Machining-and-CNC-/Rockford-/Airport-Area-/Yelok-8-cnc-lathe-chuck-jaws-aluminum-soft-pie-jaw-provided_image.jpg
[20:17:03] <toastydeath> a set of three, roughly 120 degree wedges
[20:17:03] <toastydeath> doesn't have to be exact, just as long as the part is mostly clamped on
[20:17:23] <taiden> what i do now is i touch off the fixture as -1.500
[20:17:25] <Tom_itx> i think he missed most of what you said
[20:17:31] <Tom_itx> zlog
[20:17:34] <taiden> yeah sorry about that battery dropped
[20:17:53] <taiden> and then do a quick face at z=0
[20:18:02] <toastydeath> alu is used for pretty much everything, steel, ti, magnesium
[20:18:02] <toastydeath> it's soft but rigid enough to hold the part accurately
[20:19:08] <taiden> also
[20:19:20] <taiden> i am cutting on a 3 axis router
[20:19:36] <taiden> so i have to come up with a fixture solution
[20:19:58] <Tom_itx> do you have a vise for it?
[20:20:02] <taiden> nothing at the moment
[20:20:05] <taiden> starting from scratch
[20:20:11] <Tom_itx> i see one in your near future
[20:20:15] <taiden> haha
[20:20:29] <taiden> the problem is i can't afford much so i have to get creative to start
[20:20:46] <taiden> right now I have a fixture that holds two blocks of wood, each containing two parts
[20:20:55] <Tom_itx> ok, do the same thing but make a wedge to clamp the 'moving' side of the 'vise'
[20:21:00] <taiden> but now I need to figure out how to do the opposite side
[20:21:02] <toastydeath> taiden, not as accurate as soft jaws
[20:21:03] <Tom_itx> and make a rigid side on your table
[20:21:07] <taiden> lots of good options so far
[20:21:21] <toastydeath> we used that method all the time on milling machines to hold parts, and the tolerances for the fixturing had to be balls accurate to get any sort of repeatability worth mentioning
[20:21:36] <Tom_itx> yup
[20:21:58] <taiden> so it's a right angle fixed piece
[20:22:01] <toastydeath> steel fixtures, reamed pinholes, centerless ground pins
[20:22:43] <taiden> and an angled face on the 'moving' side of the vice
[20:22:53] <taiden> so it sort of pushes it into that right angle?
[20:22:56] <Tom_itx> we used alot of aluminum fixtures since the runs we did weren't gonna be huge
[20:28:46] <taiden> here's my bad picture
[20:29:21] <taiden> hmm looks like firefox wanted to crash right as i went to copy the link
[20:33:13] <toastydeath> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/free-cad/index.php?title=Main_Page
[20:33:16] <toastydeath> you may be interested in that
[20:33:58] <toastydeath> also there is a fork of Qcad, http://librecad.org/cms/home.html
[20:35:40] <taiden> i checked out freecad
[20:35:40] <Tom_itx> do you use either?
[20:35:51] <taiden> i got really frustrated to be honest after using solidworks
[20:36:17] <toastydeath> i have used qcad/librecad, i am checking out freecad
[20:36:28] <toastydeath> i am used to proe/solidworks as well so that doesn't bode well
[20:36:41] <toastydeath> brb
[20:38:13] <Tom_itx> does either have a cam interface?
[20:40:06] <taiden> i tried heekscad/heekscnc and i couldn't get the cam interface to give me anything good
[20:40:58] <taiden> could be beginners luck though
[20:41:02] <Tom_itx> well mine works but i'm always looking for stuff
[20:41:15] <taiden> i tried to get it to pocket out a circle
[20:41:18] <taiden> and it wanted to cut
[20:41:22] <taiden> 1/32 of the circle
[20:41:23] <taiden> lift
[20:41:27] <taiden> go to the opposite side
[20:41:29] <taiden> cut another portion
[20:41:31] <taiden> lift
[20:41:32] <taiden> etc etc
[20:41:52] <taiden> was about 20 minutes to pocket a 1" OD 0.5" depth circle
[20:50:03] <r00t4rd3d> in what?
[20:50:45] <r00t4rd3d> material...
[20:51:34] <taiden> mdf
[20:52:37] <taiden> was totally unacceptable
[20:54:26] <pfred1> slowly I turn, step by step, closer and closer ...
[20:55:04] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pQii1L8fGk
[23:45:32] <tjb1> Evening all