#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-24

[00:00:04] <djdelorie> everything comes in three sizes: standard, regular, and universal.
[00:00:21] <andypugh> So, now I have decided to make the original 2 cards special-cases of the self-configuring cards
[00:02:08] <andypugh> And _now_ I have decided to go to bed, 'cos it is 6am
[00:02:21] <andypugh> Morning, all.
[00:02:43] <djdelorie> heh. It's morning *here* already
[00:19:54] <r00t4rd3d> feels like morning in my pants
[00:23:28] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openrail/openrail-open-source-linear-bearing-system?ref=card
[00:33:11] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.phlatboyz.com/Phlatformer-Kit_p_10.html
[00:33:16] <r00t4rd3d> they have some cool stuff
[01:01:57] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I might actually plagerize the phalformer design =)
[01:05:57] <r00t4rd3d> the vacuum system is a shop vac
[01:06:40] <Jymmm> Plus I have a real vaccum pump for that added pull to achieve fine detail
[01:11:39] <Jymmm> Might as well put it to some use, it just sucks!
[01:17:35] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: http://makeprojects.com/GuidePDF/link/1203/en
[02:06:41] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:34:23] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:35:46] <mrsun> hmm "stone dust" or whatever i should call it ... (fine particles from stone crushing) would that be usable in foundry sand? :)
[04:04:58] <mrsun> found out a nice way to check if aluminium has magnesium ... vinegar =)
[05:21:42] <Jymmm> mrsun: ???
[05:21:59] <mrsun> vinegar reacts quite strong with magnesium =)
[05:22:11] <mrsun> so if its magnesium in the alloy for example casting stuff, then you can avoid it =)
[05:22:11] <Jymmm> details?
[05:22:28] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FJRCgHjdeA&t=1m11s
[05:25:01] <Jymmm> I'll have to check that out later today... See if it can determine the quality of magnesium
[05:39:51] <Jymmm> mrsun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4SdKN-Kq58&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[05:45:39] <Jymmm> ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf52Lch1CkM&feature=related
[06:12:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLSGzMDvsU&feature=fvwp&NR=1
[06:36:13] <DrZimmerman> hello everyone
[06:36:43] <DrZimmerman> i'm trying to compile linuxcnc but it always fails at: "configure: error: boost::python is required to build LinuxCNC"
[06:37:09] <DrZimmerman> i've tried to figure out what configure searches for, but i see a big bunch of variables, so i can't really figure out what configure expects
[06:37:52] <DrZimmerman> i'm using gentoo linux and installed boost with the python useflag and the /usr/include/boost directory and it's files exist, so i'm pretty positive that the thing configure expects is there
[06:44:01] <jthornton> you might search the logs for "boost"
[06:59:48] <DrZimmerman> ln -s /usr/lib64/libboost_python-2.7.so /usr/lib64/libboost_python.so
[06:59:51] <DrZimmerman> did the trick
[07:00:19] <DrZimmerman> i think it's because gentoo has several python versions installed at once and has them versioned
[07:00:37] <jthornton> I'm glad you figured it out
[07:00:44] <jthornton> why gentoo?
[07:00:55] <DrZimmerman> i'm using gentoo since ages, i'm used to it :-)
[07:01:09] <jthornton> good reason then, I was just wondering
[07:01:43] <DrZimmerman> and i think it's one of the least trouble some distros out there, but it's probably just my user experience
[07:08:46] <DrZimmerman> i'm not yet happy with the symlink solution, this has to work automagically without me having to make manually a symbolic link
[07:15:12] <r00t4rd3d> what kernel is gentoo using atm?
[07:15:32] <r00t4rd3d> python may be the least of your problems
[07:16:08] <DrZimmerman> 3.2.12
[07:16:17] <DrZimmerman> i'm only simulating atm
[07:16:25] <DrZimmerman> don't have any actual hardware to use linuxcnc with
[07:16:31] <DrZimmerman> nor money to buy it :-)
[07:19:34] <r00t4rd3d> your kernel has to be built with rapti support
[07:20:30] <r00t4rd3d> or what ever its called
[07:22:17] <r00t4rd3d> and 3.2.12 by default does not have it
[07:23:25] <r00t4rd3d> and linuxcnc is probably looking for an older version of boost
[07:23:39] <r00t4rd3d> or boost/python
[07:23:50] <r00t4rd3d> what ever that is
[07:26:34] <r00t4rd3d> did you get Linuxcnc to start?
[07:29:34] <r00t4rd3d> removing the -2.7 from libboost_python-2.7.so would probably work too
[07:30:07] <DrZimmerman> i maybe soon get access to schneider electric VFD's and servo drive's
[07:30:10] <DrZimmerman> not yet
[07:30:24] <DrZimmerman> no, then i break gentoo
[07:30:28] <DrZimmerman> i've made a symlink
[07:30:32] <r00t4rd3d> ya
[07:31:12] <r00t4rd3d> you have not got LinuxCNC to start yet?
[07:32:08] <DrZimmerman> nope, i'm just now trying to install it in a gentoo conform way
[07:32:17] <DrZimmerman> which means with the gentoo portage system
[07:32:42] <r00t4rd3d> open a term, tail -f /var/log/dmesg
[07:32:53] <DrZimmerman> why?
[07:32:57] <r00t4rd3d> then try and start it, see if you get a rapti error
[07:33:12] <DrZimmerman> well, first i have to be able to build it :-)
[07:33:23] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[07:33:47] <DrZimmerman> building by hand is easy, but then the files are spread somewhere and portage has no clue where they are
[07:33:58] <r00t4rd3d> i hate gentoo
[07:33:59] <DrZimmerman> that's why i first have to write a propper ebuild file
[07:34:10] <DrZimmerman> i like it :-)
[07:34:28] <DrZimmerman> although sometimes i hate it too ;-)
[07:34:48] <r00t4rd3d> it makes you work too much
[07:34:58] <r00t4rd3d> to get simple shit to work
[07:35:15] <DrZimmerman> well i have this experience from all the other distros
[07:35:32] <r00t4rd3d> granted i think ubuntu sucks balls too
[07:35:33] <DrZimmerman> i sometimes worked my ass of for the most simple things which i would've done in a snap on gentoo
[07:36:05] <DrZimmerman> but i also think i've worked my ass off because of lack of knowledge of the other distro
[07:36:21] <r00t4rd3d> did you learn on gentoo?
[07:37:00] <DrZimmerman> i'm using it since ~10 years
[07:37:11] <DrZimmerman> but i've had debian, knoppix, ubuntu, fedore, mandrake
[07:38:20] <r00t4rd3d> debian would probably be your best bet
[07:38:38] <r00t4rd3d> without the retarded ubuntu shell on it
[07:39:13] <ReadError> i need a good cheap CF source ;/
[07:39:14] <DrZimmerman> well, i've had some many many years ago my last debian experience and i've started to hate it back then, dunno why, too long ago
[07:42:17] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think linuxcnc is gonna work with the latest stable kernel unless your some kinda of magician
[07:42:44] <r00t4rd3d> or a basement dwelling linux guru
[07:43:17] <ReadError> well you need it to be a RT kernel
[07:43:34] <ReadError> i believe alex4nder runs it on debian
[07:43:46] <DrZimmerman> well, till i get the hardware for the cnc it might go another half/whole year, in this time i learn how linuxcnc works, maybe write some code for it and learn how to circumvent all the stones laying in my way
[07:43:47] <r00t4rd3d> or a basement dwelling linux guru
[07:44:02] <ReadError> haha r00t4rd3d
[07:44:07] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[07:44:07] <DrZimmerman> i don't really have time to dwell in my basement :-)
[07:44:41] <ReadError> go cut somethin, foo
[07:44:49] <DrZimmerman> and my working machine definitelly won't be my linuxcnc machine, so i'm ok to downgrade the kernel by the time i need to :-)
[07:44:59] <r00t4rd3d> i just might today
[07:45:24] <r00t4rd3d> i need to finish up my table conversion
[07:45:36] <r00t4rd3d> i need some 1/2 spacers
[07:46:32] <_abc_> DrZimmerman: it's okay, you don't need to dwell in your basement, linuxcnc/axis works great from a remote display
[07:46:52] <_abc_> DrZimmerman: wrt cleaning stones out of the way, I still bump into them after ~25 years
[07:47:03] <_abc_> (but cnc processing is not my real job)
[07:47:15] <DrZimmerman> _abc_, i don't even expect not to bump into any, i'm used to this :-)
[07:47:37] <DrZimmerman> neither it's my real job, i'm electrician
[07:47:51] <_abc_> Anyone interested in patches to the gcode generation features of pcb (geda circuit design program)? I wrote some nice ones see peter5.50webs.com/free
[07:48:21] <_abc_> Should you not have a nick like DrSparky then? :)
[07:48:33] <DrZimmerman> soon have a new job at schneider electric where i'll be programming buildings with LON and BACnet and since i'm working there i hope that i can buy their VFD's and so on cheaply
[07:48:43] <DrZimmerman> good idea :-)
[07:48:45] <archivist> _abc_, poke djdelorie for that :)
[07:48:54] <_abc_> I talked to him on oftc
[07:49:26] <DrZimmerman> this nick is from a star trek character which i found cool some many years ago when the series were still running
[07:49:52] <DrZimmerman> just kept it because i'm too lazy to search for a new nick :-)
[07:50:04] <r00t4rd3d> DrZoidburg
[07:50:23] <ReadError> WHY NOT ZOIDBURG?
[07:50:31] <DrZimmerman> lol
[07:50:34] <DrZimmerman> maybe :-)
[07:50:52] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Information on DrZimmerman (account DrZimmerman):
[07:50:52] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Registered : Jun 10 09:49:17 2003 (9 years, 2 weeks, 3 days, 02:50:42 ago)
[07:51:17] <DrZimmerman> wow, long time
[07:51:27] <DrZimmerman> never thought it's that old
[07:51:42] <ReadError> Registered : Jul 06 00:46:12 2004 (7 years, 50 weeks, 5 days, 11:54:36 ago)
[07:51:48] <ReadError> got me beat
[07:51:55] <DrZimmerman> :-P
[07:52:17] <r00t4rd3d> -NickServ- Registered : Jan 10 15:40:00 2005 (7 years, 23 weeks, 5 days, 21:01:29 ago)
[07:52:18] <r00t4rd3d> :(
[07:52:34] <archivist> Im a noob to Registered : Mar 22 13:26:20 2005 (7 years, 13 weeks, 4 days, 23:14:43 ago)
[07:57:43] * _abc_ gives archivist a lollypop
[07:58:02] <_abc_> What kind of tool changers are there out there, besides air driven monsters?
[07:58:16] <syyl_ws> hydraulic ones :D
[07:58:26] <_abc_> Erm *lighter* please
[07:58:31] <_abc_> electric, magnetic?
[07:58:34] <syyl_ws> small hydraulic?
[07:58:34] <syyl_ws> ;)
[07:58:48] <syyl_ws> air drivven ones get pretty small
[07:59:28] <syyl_ws> havent seen an electric one jet
[07:59:31] <syyl_ws> yet
[07:59:49] <syyl_ws> except for an electric driven hydraulic.. ;)
[08:00:22] <archivist> I have seen mandraulic, a lever
[08:01:28] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2003/2003_01_23_Clockworks/P1010016.JPG
[08:01:29] <syyl_ws> yeah
[08:01:38] <syyl_ws> thats quite common
[08:04:06] <archivist> there was an automatic version on that mill but not seen how it was released yet
[08:07:07] <_abc_> http://reprap.org/wiki/PCB_Milling this needs updating, pcb has had gcode output support for years now
[09:31:23] <DrZimmerman> by the way, what kind of machines do you guys have?
[09:31:35] <DrZimmerman> retrofitted or self built?
[09:33:03] <jthornton> yes
[09:33:18] <jthornton> and some original
[09:34:05] <DrZimmerman> you have any pictures or maybe even documentation?
[09:34:18] <jthornton> gnipsel.com
[09:34:27] <DrZimmerman> i'm especially interested in the mechanical parts
[09:34:33] <DrZimmerman> thanks
[09:55:00] <r00t4rd3d> Egyptians are stupid.
[09:56:17] <r00t4rd3d> soon mubarak will look like a saint.
[11:04:36] <WillenCMD> i design custom machines for companies, i just started this company and have 3 clients as of now. I designed a gui, using gladevcp and hal components. Reading gcode isn't needed so with help from Andypugh i use the dozens of great halcomps to control these machines.
[11:05:11] <WillenCMD> if i distribute the machine with linuxcnc according to gpl v2 i have to supply the source and retain all authors contributions
[11:07:12] <WillenCMD> what it does not say is controlling the access to the source. If i setup 2 accounds say "programmer = me" and "operator = customer", if i strip them of all the user rights including to accessing the source without my permission is that legal?
[11:22:45] <r00t4rd3d> having the source without access to it is pointless
[11:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> just ship it with barebones linuxcnc and sell your program
[11:25:06] <r00t4rd3d> or sell the support to it
[11:26:08] <r00t4rd3d> and all the tutorials, howtos and updates are in a supported user only forum
[11:27:05] <r00t4rd3d> but i am drifting from the main point i think
[11:29:17] <r00t4rd3d> also not including your source code so people can tinker and adjust to their setups is kinda anti linux and most people dont favor to that.
[11:31:28] <r00t4rd3d> AND what could you possibly want to keep so secret in a GUI?
[11:32:25] <r00t4rd3d> can i see a screen shot of this gui?
[11:32:57] <DrZimmerman> r00t4rd3d, some people even wanna keep the most simplest things their "IP"
[11:33:08] <r00t4rd3d> ok steve jobs
[11:33:40] <DrZimmerman> r00t4rd3d, i hope i don't run into such problems with my new imployer, because some basic things i really don't consider "IP", i rather think it's common sense in many things
[11:33:53] <DrZimmerman> s/imployer/employer
[11:38:33] <WillenCMD> nothing
[11:39:20] <r00t4rd3d> you have a screenshot of the gui?
[11:39:32] <WillenCMD> mainly restrict people like me from getting into it and hacking the files to make changes. Because thats what i did to most of the fanuc machines at my work
[11:39:58] <WillenCMD> except there are no files, mainly paramter bits
[11:40:09] <WillenCMD> enabling features
[11:40:13] <WillenCMD> :)
[11:40:17] <WillenCMD> its legal
[11:40:19] <WillenCMD> lol
[11:40:42] <WillenCMD> i am going to share the gui and all of the python modules with the linuxcnc community
[11:41:05] <WillenCMD> i have gone well beyond the gladevcp's intended use
[11:41:07] <r00t4rd3d> i would share my backdoor too
[11:41:42] <WillenCMD> its the least i can do with all the help i have been given
[11:42:09] <r00t4rd3d> i think you missed it
[11:43:31] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/rVXqB.jpg
[11:43:36] <r00t4rd3d> i love the look of that
[11:47:18] <WillenCMD> i understand that tinkering with source code is what linux is all about, but that being said a user causing malfunctions from tampering with the code. Will consume a lot of my time with fixing the problem.
[11:47:55] <WillenCMD> i know this because i have spend a lot of my time fixing problems with code i have tinkered with
[11:48:05] <WillenCMD> spent*
[11:49:55] <r00t4rd3d> oh well tell them if they mess it up to reinstall it
[11:50:51] <r00t4rd3d> rm -f /WillenCMD
[11:53:21] <r00t4rd3d> you will probably get more people bitching about wanting the source if your gui is any good then people bitching about messing with it and screwing it up
[11:57:49] <WillenCMD> most people would have zero use for it
[11:57:58] <r00t4rd3d> $59.95 a year to access the support forums
[11:58:09] <r00t4rd3d> then your time will be worth something
[11:58:37] <WillenCMD> these are task based machines, simple 2 or 3 axis specially designed for one job
[11:58:59] <r00t4rd3d> making the same parts over and over?
[11:59:11] <WillenCMD> yes
[11:59:20] <r00t4rd3d> what are you making?
[11:59:49] <WillenCMD> the first machine is a cnc diamond cut-off saw, for a tool manufacturing and sharpening company
[12:00:32] <WillenCMD> before they can sharpend a carbide tool for example an endmill the have to cut-off the chipped portion first
[12:01:21] <WillenCMD> right now this involves hand loading an endmill into a 5c rotary hand crank indexer, and feeding down a surface grinder with a cut-off wheel on it while turning the endmill by hand
[12:01:47] <WillenCMD> a tedious task, especially when sharpening 1000's of endmills
[12:02:01] <micges> WillenCMD: why one wants to change source code of gui? in my last company I've selled about 60 machines and only once customer tampered with source, only becouse it was blocked becouse he wasn't paying installments
[12:03:48] <WillenCMD> my machine, the operator loads the endmill into a 5c spindle enter's the amount to remove off the front, and thats it.
[12:04:32] <WillenCMD> it rapids in picks up the outside dameter, and starting zero point, rapids back, starts feeding down, all while the operator is loading the second spindle
[12:07:24] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Rv8Ab.jpg
[12:07:34] <r00t4rd3d> who needs a cnc router?
[12:08:20] <r00t4rd3d> that is a cool idea for a project
[12:08:48] <Jymmm> not when population is 1.2 billion and you can get lunch for $0.25 USD
[12:11:11] <r00t4rd3d> buzz killington
[12:11:25] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[12:12:09] <Jymmm> lol
[12:12:31] <IchGuckLive> Why<
[12:20:27] <ReadError> how you all polish aluminum ?
[12:20:56] <Jymmm> mirror finish == big ass cotton buffing wheel
[12:20:57] <IchGuckLive> with a mashine
[12:21:38] <IchGuckLive> the cotton weehl with crome polish onto the drill mashine
[12:22:12] <Jymmm> I use stick rubbing compounds
[12:23:12] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pillar_of_Delhi
[12:24:50] <Jymmm> 1600 year old iron pillar out in the elements
[12:29:09] <Jymmm> ReadError: how much and do you want a mirror finish?
[12:29:33] <Jymmm> ReadError: or are you trying just to make something not look fugly?
[12:31:17] <tjb1> Not look fugly...haha
[12:31:26] <Jymmm> ReadError: a brush finish is MUCH MUCH easier... http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20110820/Rotary_Wire_Cup_Brush.jpg
[12:31:44] <Jymmm> tjb1: you never heard the term fugly before?
[12:31:55] <tjb1> Yes, its just funny
[12:31:59] <Jymmm> =)
[12:32:04] <tjb1> Just like rugly
[12:32:14] <Jymmm> rugly?
[12:32:27] <tjb1> really ugly
[12:32:40] <Jymmm> never heard that one.
[12:32:42] <tjb1> the step before fugly
[12:35:07] <tjb1> What do you think about using an electric actuator to lift the end of a water table to drain it instead of all the complicated work of making the water table not level
[12:36:55] <Jymmm> over complicated
[12:36:56] <IchGuckLive> YES I DID it %-achses New Elektronic running for the first time B) :D
[12:37:09] <IchGuckLive> SMILE
[12:37:31] <tjb1> Its 2 hinges and the actuator mount :P sounds pretty simple to me
[12:38:01] <Jymmm> a 1/4" rod under one end sounds simpler to me.
[12:38:56] <tjb1> but then the slats arent level
[12:39:18] <Jymmm> arent level with what? the floor? the machine table?
[12:39:26] <tjb1> the gantry movement
[12:39:48] <Jymmm> is the mill in the tub?
[12:40:06] <tjb1> Hmm?
[12:40:30] <Jymmm> tjb1: needs pics
[12:40:51] <tjb1> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/469928_3926380233930_1088240025_o.jpg
[12:41:24] <Jymmm> and is the "tub" mounted to the frame?
[12:41:39] <tjb1> no
[12:41:43] <tjb1> not as of yet
[12:41:54] <tjb1> its heavy enough to just sit there for plasma
[12:42:11] <Jymmm> tjb1: details man details. If it's not mounted to the frame, then it doens't matter if a rod is under one end.
[12:42:36] <tjb1> That makes the slats not longer level with the travel of the torch
[12:42:59] <Jymmm> If it is, then the table is tilted the same as the tub, and just 1/4" higher on one end in refernce to the floor but still parallel with the tub
[12:43:24] <tjb1> so put adjustable feet on the bottom and make the whole table 1/4 out
[12:48:02] <Jymmm> just hope the floor isn't tilted inversely so =)
[12:52:21] <IchGuckLive> is there a ready ngc for a turned pillar somewhere
[13:26:01] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[13:26:57] <ReadError> im still kinda confused about up vs. down milling
[13:26:58] <ReadError> like
[13:27:03] <ReadError> if i have RH endmill
[13:27:09] <ReadError> and i want to profile the outside
[13:27:14] <ReadError> would i go CW or CCW?
[13:30:01] <Jymmm> ReadError: Does this help? http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeedsClimbConventional.htm
[13:31:13] <IchGuckLive> what is RH material
[13:31:23] <ReadError> right hand
[13:31:26] <ReadError> aluminum
[13:32:28] <IchGuckLive> is this a ballscrew mashine or hevy duty then you woudt go always synchronous Milling
[13:32:50] <IchGuckLive> so left of the contour
[13:32:52] <ReadError> i notice the finish of the material is very dependant on the direction i cut
[13:33:05] <ReadError> either the inside or outside is smoother/nicer
[13:33:18] <jdh> climb vs. conventional
[13:33:19] <IchGuckLive> if the mashine hiolds the cutter go for this
[13:40:03] <ReadError> i wish visualmill saved my tools
[14:35:21] <JT-Shop> ReadError: got your mind right on climb vs conventional milling?
[14:46:56] <ReadError> JT-Shop
[14:47:02] <ReadError> still kinda confused
[14:47:24] <ReadError> but i been dealin with a few work issues here so havnt got to put my head into it yet
[14:47:42] <ReadError> i was just wondering if there was a generic rule of thumb
[14:47:54] <ReadError> like cutting the outside of something, go CCW
[14:47:58] <ReadError> inside, CW
[14:48:00] <ReadError> that kind of thing
[14:51:26] <JT-Shop> yes, if your using a manual mill with an acme lead screw you use conventional milling for CNC machines you use climb milling
[14:52:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: both for inside and outside milling?
[14:52:07] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:52:43] <JT-Shop> you use climb milling because it leaves a better finish and creates less heat from rubbing
[14:53:27] <JT-Shop> so if it is an outside profile with a normal CW spindle you mill the profile in the CW direction
[14:53:50] <JT-Shop> for an inside profile you mill CCW
[14:54:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: But if I was making a jewlery box from a billet of aluminum with a fitted lid. and the mill is going CW, wouldn't I later the direction of travel based upon if I was creating a pocket on the inside vs creating a lip on the outside ?
[14:54:31] <Jymmm> s/mill/tool/
[14:54:34] <JT-Shop> for slotting it doesn't matter unless your slot is wider than your endmill
[14:55:13] <Jymmm> maybe I used the wrong term of 'pocket'
[14:55:24] <JT-Shop> outside profiles you go CW inside profiles you go CCW
[14:55:47] <Jymmm> the spinning of the tool or direction of travel?
[14:56:02] <JT-Shop> the travel dir
[14:56:41] <Jymmm> k
[14:57:19] <JT-Shop> http://www.quadrantplastics.com/fileadmin/quadrant/documents/QEPP/NA/Case_Studies_PDF/TIVAR_88/Climb_milling.jpg
[14:57:50] <JT-Shop> better image http://geoteched.com/images/climb2.jpg
[14:57:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: side question... you ever did any work on cutting shrink wrap (production/packaging machine)
[14:58:22] <JT-Shop> like a pallet wrapper?
[14:58:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: or even product box shrink wrapping.
[14:58:54] <JT-Shop> ReadError: does the image make it clear
[14:59:11] <JT-Shop> heat shrink?
[14:59:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When you buy a hard drive, the box is wrapped in plastic wrap
[15:00:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: same stuff as pallet wrap, just thiner.
[15:00:22] <Jymmm> thinner
[15:06:59] <ReadError> hmm
[15:07:01] <ReadError> so
[15:07:08] <ReadError> if im cutting the inside of something
[15:07:14] <ReadError> is hould go with CW
[15:07:18] <ReadError> outside, CCW
[15:07:41] <JT-Shop> just the opposite
[15:09:17] <JT-Shop> as viewed from the positive end of the Z axis
[15:09:58] <ReadError> so its a matter if i want to "uppercut" the material or "cut down into" it
[15:10:42] <_abc_> The link you posted mentions using conventional milling on the last finishing pass. Also climb milling seems to be important only when pushing speed to the limit.
[15:11:38] <_abc_> In particular, they claim that climb milling lessens the danger of tool breakage because there is negative feedback (conventional milling has positive feedback, mechanically pushing the tool into the part and vice versa)
[15:12:28] <_abc_> That's whence the 'climb' comes, I think. The tool tries to climb out of / away from the work when forced.
[15:13:07] <_abc_> Also I am pretty sure that the 'spoon' mills I use don't work for climb milling at all. I use them for engraving (and sometimes cutting)
[15:14:14] <JT-Shop> ReadError: I'm sure I don't understand what you mean by "uppercut" or "cut down into"
[15:14:50] <JT-Shop> engraving is the same as slotting and it makes no difference which way you go
[15:15:44] <JT-Shop> I just posted an image link...
[15:15:50] <ReadError> yea i saw
[15:16:02] <ReadError> it just seems the finish on 1 side is much nicer than the other
[15:16:08] <ReadError> depending on what direction i go
[15:16:21] <JT-Shop> finish on aluminum?
[15:16:47] <ReadError> yea
[15:17:08] <JT-Shop> climb cutting has always given me the best finish on aluminum
[15:17:47] <JT-Shop> so are you milling one side then milling the other side but going the same direction during the cut?
[15:18:17] <_abc_> Say, what ball mill shape is preferred for low speed but precise tufnol and fiberglass milling?
[15:18:43] <_abc_> I have some wood mills which have like 6 or 7 edges but I do not think that they are the right kind for this
[15:19:12] <_abc_> Also I seem to work with mill diameters <1mm all the time :)
[15:20:29] <_abc_> Is a hobby cnc mill accurate enough to make a cylinder bore for a piston engine or pump outright, without needing lapping?
[15:20:47] <_abc_> I think that the answer is no, but I am asking...
[15:25:24] <alex4nder> _abc_: what kind of compression do you want to see? ;)
[15:33:17] <_abc_> alex4nder: for a motor, something reasonable, say, maximum 12 by design, probably derated for knocking reasons. For a pump, it will be a vacuum pump so as high as possible ... :)
[15:33:51] <_abc_> alex4nder: small pistons running in a suitable oil have been known to make crazy pressures. You know how a Bosch type Diesel injection pump is built, right?
[15:33:58] <Tom_itx> wood mills have different rake angles than metal cutting mills
[15:34:13] <_abc_> Tom_itx: yes but I am talking about tufnol and FR4
[15:34:24] <_abc_> which are sort of closer to wood... especially tufnol
[15:34:36] <Tom_itx> i'd use carbide on FR4. it's very abrasive
[15:34:51] <Tom_itx> FR4 is nothing like wood
[15:34:53] <_abc_> The mills are all carbide or nitride
[15:36:34] <_abc_> Anyway I am off to bed
[15:37:13] <ReadError> fr4 cuts pretty awesome
[15:37:18] <ReadError> wish i could get it in black though...
[15:37:28] <_abc_> Yes, high density FR4 is very nice to work
[15:37:42] <ReadError> heard its super bad for your lungs though
[15:37:54] <_abc_> But both it and tufnol stink are bad for you
[15:37:59] <_abc_> +and
[15:38:09] <ReadError> do they make it in colors?
[15:38:14] <_abc_> yes!
[15:38:15] <ReadError> or only that yellowish stuff
[15:38:19] <ReadError> ohrly
[15:38:30] <ReadError> i been getting mine from amazon
[15:38:35] <_abc_> It comes in white, green, red, beige and likely black
[15:38:48] <_abc_> I assume more colors are available
[15:39:10] <ReadError> need to find a good cheap USA source then it seems
[15:39:19] <_abc_> I am not in usa...
[15:39:50] <_abc_> Fiberglass epoxy is a major structural material for boat and aircraft building afaik
[15:40:00] <_abc_> It should be available everywhere
[15:40:20] <_abc_> I think it is being displaced by carbon now.
[15:43:18] <alex4nder> _abc_: I was trying to convey: tolerances are just going to impact your ability to compress.
[15:43:24] <alex4nder> or the opposite
[15:43:41] <alex4nder> so of course a hobby mill can make a nice piston and hole for said piston
[15:43:49] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KqrO_BQD8E
[15:49:33] <_abc_> ReadError: http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/G10_FR4_Glass_Epoxy_Sheet ?
[15:49:39] <frallzor> yoyo
[15:50:55] <JT-Shop> it's the frallzor!
[15:51:14] <_abc_> alex4nder: this is not so obvious you know
[15:51:34] <_abc_> alex4nder: anyway you can mount a lapping head in a cnc and it can lap just fine I guess...
[15:51:45] <_abc_> Or lap with the piston proper...
[15:52:31] <alex4nder> _abc_: what's not obvious about it?
[15:52:38] <alex4nder> can you can drill a hole, and you can make a circle.
[15:52:50] <alex4nder> how well they match, and your ring design, dictates performance
[15:53:07] <_abc_> drilling holes does not result in round holes usually
[15:53:32] <JT-Shop> mack to stepconf conversion software is done... now what?
[15:54:04] <alex4nder> _abc_: I think I'm being too subtle.. I'm saying that you can make a pump with any piston and any hole, how well that pump works is baed on design characteristics.
[15:54:10] <alex4nder> or you're trolling me now. ;)
[15:55:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop how about a guide to setting up the 5i25 and sserial etc
[15:55:39] <Tom_itx> or such
[15:56:12] <Tom_itx> isn't it a bit more complex setting up add on cards for it?
[15:57:48] <frallzor> hello there Mr JT
[15:59:53] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: actually once a couple of jumpers are set and you have field power your good to go
[16:00:13] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[16:01:09] <Tom_itx> on to bigger and better things then
[16:02:00] <_abc_> alex4nder: okay
[16:07:06] <_abc_> Is this a typical contemporary lapping head shape? http://aaok.com/1-5-8-lap-head.html
[16:07:09] <_abc_> I haven't touched a lapping head in ~25 years
[16:08:34] <frallzor> whatcha doing Mr JT?
[16:08:48] <JT-Shop> piddling with my generator
[16:09:18] <JT-Shop> need to make a couple of cannon parts I think
[16:10:20] <frallzor> "the generator" "cannon"
[16:10:22] <frallzor> I hear ya
[16:10:31] <Tom_itx> finally got all the holes in the box now it's down to the wiring
[16:11:12] <JT-Shop> I picked up a 3 phase 15kw generator the other day and I'm replacing the panel and upgrading the breakers and stuff on it
[16:11:34] <Tom_itx> backup from a grocery store or something?
[16:11:38] <Tom_itx> my friend got one that way
[16:11:52] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:11:54] <JT-Shop> police station
[16:11:58] <_abc_> Do you have frequent power outages which mandate keeping such things around?
[16:12:23] * _abc_ also heads for bed, midnight here
[16:12:42] <frallzor> JT-Shop you didnt steal it I hope
[16:12:51] <Tom_itx> he converted his over to propane
[16:13:50] <JT-Shop> frallzor: nope
[16:14:35] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: this one is a 2 cyl diesel Deutz engine
[16:18:16] <frallzor> http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4837/chassisrenderrev3.jpg soon to be machined, rev. 3
[16:19:29] <JT-Shop> panel for?
[16:19:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/p4zcg.jpg
[16:20:12] <frallzor> not a panel, chassis for htpc-case
[16:20:21] <frallzor> "framework" sort of
[16:20:46] <JT-Shop> ah, ok
[16:21:03] <frallzor> to be covered by 3D-machined woodwork
[16:21:18] <JT-Shop> r00t4rd3d: you build that?
[16:22:01] <frallzor> thats a cute machine, simple design =)
[16:22:09] <frallzor> seems pretty solid
[16:22:19] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop, yeah
[16:22:25] <JT-Shop> cool
[16:22:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/152794-mdf_madness.html
[16:23:00] <r00t4rd3d> my entire build thread
[16:23:16] <r00t4rd3d> my first few photos are laughable
[16:23:22] <frallzor> Sometimes I wish I made a tabletop machine
[16:23:38] <frallzor> then I could fit some bigger machines too =(
[16:23:56] <JT-Shop> I'm making one for testing
[16:24:13] <JT-Shop> r00t4rd3d: it looks much to clean to be fun lol
[16:24:51] <r00t4rd3d> i havent cut anything yet
[16:25:00] <r00t4rd3d> only used a pencil to draw stuff
[16:25:24] <jdh> how will you mount material?
[16:25:29] <frallzor> go cut something!
[16:25:40] <frallzor> I would drill holes and thread em
[16:25:45] <frallzor> and then use em for moutning
[16:25:53] <r00t4rd3d> jdh, http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21387&site=ROCKLER
[16:25:53] <frallzor> *n
[16:26:06] <r00t4rd3d> those will be ordered soon
[16:26:20] <r00t4rd3d> duct tape and spit for now
[16:31:02] <ReadError> carpet tape is hella strong
[16:31:23] <r00t4rd3d> i have some Gorilla Tape, same people that make Gorilla Glue
[16:31:30] <r00t4rd3d> strong as shit
[16:32:04] <r00t4rd3d> Friday I will order my clamps
[16:32:44] <r00t4rd3d> and probably larger diameter linear rods for my Y axis
[16:33:47] <ReadError> i got some also
[16:33:53] <ReadError> but i think the carpet tape is stronger
[16:34:00] <ReadError> like you might not get the part back off
[16:34:07] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[16:35:13] <frallzor> I used to use carpet tape
[16:35:26] <frallzor> I stopped using it because I ruined parts when trying to remove it
[16:37:20] <r00t4rd3d> ok so if I take a block of wood thats 1 1/8" thick, set it on what i want to cut, lower my bit to the top of it, set my z axis to 1" away, it will only go down an 1/8th of an inch into the wood?
[16:39:21] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError
[16:45:42] <andypugh> Does the install script for lucid install the newer kernel?
[16:46:15] <frallzor> woho found my Aspire disk, pure fluke
[18:07:32] <brentmore> Anyone running a sable?
[18:08:53] <Tecan> depends
[18:10:43] <brentmore> Depends?
[18:13:25] <Tecan> ?depends ??/??
[18:18:09] <andypugh> Is your question very Sable-specific?
[18:18:53] <brentmore> Wanted to see if anyone's used the sable drivers and motors on another body
[18:18:58] <brentmore> such as the V90
[18:19:15] <andypugh> Are they specific to the Sable then?
[18:19:59] <brentmore> not particularly, although if someone has specific experience with the sable that'd be great
[18:20:35] <andypugh> Looking at the pictures, they do look like they might be their own.
[18:23:01] <andypugh> The design of the machine looks like it ought to manage a consistent Z-height at least.
[18:24:17] <andypugh> I wonder why my CNC PC doesn't notice USB drives. Could it be a BIOS thing?
[18:24:57] <andypugh> The USB works for the joypad, but fdisk -l sees nothing when a USB drive is inserted
[18:34:49] <A0Sheds> could be BIOS, what does lsusb show for devices?
[18:35:43] <A0Sheds> really really old kernel, or kernel config with broken options for USB block devices
[18:37:02] <Tom_itx> andypugh is that your new atomis board?
[18:37:07] <Tom_itx> atomish*
[18:45:06] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, this is Ye Olde Xeon Server
[18:45:24] <andypugh> I
[18:45:30] <andypugh> Which is now totally broken
[18:46:06] <andypugh> I couldn't get networking to work, so I tried to install netatalk, and the installation crashed.
[18:47:33] <andypugh> So I decided to upgrade to Lucid / 2.5, but it won't boot from USB, or even see USB, so I decided to use the normal update process to 10.04 with the intention of then doing the scripted 2.5 install, but now none of the installed kernels will boot the machine.
[18:48:13] <andypugh> Which is all fairly suboptimal. As I have a lump of material in the vice to machine.
[18:50:01] <Connor> Anyone know if the Atom D2700 works good with LinuxCNC ?
[18:50:16] <andypugh> So, now I am reading up on PXE boot
[18:50:27] <andypugh> Connor: D2800 is good
[18:50:46] <andypugh> D510 and D525 are good.
[18:51:04] <andypugh> I can see no reason that the D2700 would be bad
[18:52:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: OH MY GAWD?! ARE YOU SERIOUS?????? Dude, it has a 'D' in it's name, those like the worse bad you could ever have!!!
[18:53:04] <andypugh> Nurse! Jymmm missed his medication again!
[18:53:25] <FinboySlick> What have I connected into?
[18:54:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: (and she's cute too ;)
[18:54:19] <Connor> andypugh: Gets a little better score that the 525's
[18:55:16] <JT-Shop> I raised Sables once, does that count?
[18:55:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: they still alive?
[18:56:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: Do you guys have ethnic grocery stores there? Not speciality ones, but reasonable priced ones.
[18:57:34] <andypugh> If you go the right parts of town, yes.
[18:57:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: Asian? Indian? Japanese?
[18:58:23] <andypugh> Not so sure about Japanese, but definitely Indian, Caribbean, turkish, lebanese etc
[18:59:57] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok. If you find an asian market, check out coconut/palm sugar. Soemtimes in comes in various sized "pucks" some granular, it's not bad and suppose to be good (better than?) if you're diabetic
[19:00:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: Somewhere around $2 USD/LB or so
[19:00:54] <andypugh> I don't really use any sort of sugar.
[19:01:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: coffee, tea, cooking ?
[19:01:27] <andypugh> Not in drinks, and I don't cook anything sweet
[19:01:36] <Jymmm> ah, well nm then =)
[19:02:46] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: for the pelts?
[19:05:20] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I think he's british, they're supposed to have terrible food tastes ;)
[19:06:16] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Well, that's implied. I just thought he might be unique and actually have taste buds =)
[19:07:03] <FinboySlick> He does, but they specialized in boiled parts of animals that civilized people normally throw away.
[19:08:01] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: boiled meat, yuck. But I suspect that goes back to the war days, maybe before then too.
[19:08:18] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I was just being a smart ass
[19:08:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, well better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass =)
[19:08:44] <JT-Shop> LOL
[19:11:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I was sking you earlier about shrink wrap as I don't have one of those high speed rotary type cutters and need loking for a way to cut 6in pieces of shrink film. the only thing I found that works great is a rotary blade like they use for cutting fabric, just wondering if there are any alternatives in a production environment you might be aware of
[19:12:55] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Laser!
[19:13:21] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: It's pvc shrink film, cna't use a laser on it.
[19:13:37] <FinboySlick> waterjet!
[19:13:50] <Jymmm> lol
[19:14:06] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: I was thinkinf somethign under $300
[19:14:28] <FinboySlick> pressure washer waterjet!
[19:15:02] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Sold! Just show me the video of it working and I'll send you a check!
[19:16:27] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I've made stretch wrap machines befoe and we just ripped it off when done wrapping
[19:16:41] <JT-Shop> I've not worked on any retail packaging machines
[19:16:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, gotcha. I thought you might have.
[19:17:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you probably should, it's a frickin market out there for shit!
[19:17:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: especially that overwrap stuff.
[19:17:39] <JT-Shop> too busy making assembly machines
[19:18:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: assembling what typically?
[19:18:23] <JT-Shop> lawn mower engines on final assembly lines
[19:18:29] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[19:19:16] <JT-Shop> I can't wait to see how much they want for this http://www.amot.com/tenants/amot/documents/Datasheet_2800_Safety_Shutdown_Device_0911_Rev2.pdf
[19:19:45] <JT-Shop> the trip lever is broken on the generator... want too much and I'll make a new one from 4140
[19:20:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, there's not "Not for life support systems" disclaimer at the bottom of the PDF, so you actually might be safe at under three digits
[19:21:24] <JT-Shop> if it is over $200 I'll just make a new part...
[19:21:25] <Jymmm> Thought the dimentional diagram might jack up the price a bit.
[19:21:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Might be serviceable though
[19:22:23] <JT-Shop> the trip lever inside is broken, I've got it apart and await the price to see how I will procede
[19:26:16] <Tom_itx> trip lever for what?
[19:26:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.mckenziecorp.com/amot_safety_valve.htm
[19:27:29] <Tom_itx> ok i could look but does anyone know if there's a jumper on the 7i47 for power to come from the ribbon vs the provided plug and does it really matter which one you use?
[19:27:42] <jdh> w2 I think.
[19:27:59] <Tom_itx> does it matter that much where the power sources from?
[19:28:04] <Tom_itx> it's not under heavy load
[19:28:11] <Tom_itx> or i would use external
[19:28:58] <Tom_itx> trying to get this silly thing rewired
[19:28:58] <jdh> it's W1
[19:29:08] <andypugh> W1 to the left according to the manual.
[19:29:24] <andypugh> <curmudgeon> Which you could have read </curmudgeon>
[19:29:24] <Tom_itx> right now it's set for ribbon power
[19:29:33] <jdh> This mode can be used for testing but it is
[19:29:33] <jdh> suggested that W1 be placed in the right hand position and I/O power be supplied via P1
[19:29:33] <jdh> for most applications.
[19:29:34] <Tom_itx> :)
[19:29:42] <Tom_itx> i know i'm having a lazy moment
[19:29:54] <Tom_itx> and the book is buried under wire, tools and connectors
[19:30:04] <jdh> mine is an icon
[19:30:18] <andypugh> I just google them when I want them
[19:30:35] <Tom_itx> i'll probably switch it over to P1 power
[19:30:44] <Tom_itx> same for the 7i43
[19:30:53] <jdh> I have a dual 5/12vdc PS in my enclosure
[19:30:54] <Tom_itx> it was usb powered up until now
[19:30:55] <andypugh> The naming scheme is confusing, but at least they are mainly the only google hit
[19:31:09] <andypugh> Anyway, time to sleep
[19:31:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control2.jpg
[19:31:51] <Tom_itx> if you look close you can see my 5v smps beside the mesa cards
[19:31:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: In your state http://www.midwestcontrolproducts.com/
[19:32:04] <Tom_itx> those were just set in there for placement.
[19:32:09] <Tom_itx> i've mounted them since then
[19:32:23] <Tom_itx> i've got 50, 24 and 5v in there
[19:32:55] <Tom_itx> i had to use a centertap for the 5v because the smps wouldn't take 50v input
[19:35:48] <Tom_itx> ok, moving on to the stepper wiring...
[19:45:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Jsut wire two stepper motors to each other same color to same color =)
[19:46:22] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: turn one by hand, the other turns too !
[19:47:20] <Jymmm> (seriously)
[19:49:27] <Tom_itx> it's called a servo
[19:49:46] <Jymmm> you said stepper
[19:50:01] <Tom_itx> what you described is a servo
[19:50:44] <Connor> No, a servo has some sort of feed back loop.
[19:51:01] <Connor> what he described was using 1 stepper as a generator.
[19:51:33] <Tom_itx> master / slave
[19:53:01] <Tom_itx> it will be a miracle if i can keep all these wires straight
[19:53:26] <Jymmm> teg em
[19:53:28] <Jymmm> tag em
[19:53:42] <Tom_itx> i got a sheet
[19:53:46] <Tom_itx> i'm not silly
[19:53:51] <Jymmm> a sheet of what?
[19:53:56] <Tom_itx> wiring chart
[19:53:59] <Tom_itx> but still...
[19:54:01] <Jymmm> so?
[19:54:07] <Jymmm> you need these http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/scpv/Wire-and-Cable-ID~Wire-Marker-Cards.html
[19:54:16] <Jymmm> or sharpie and a roll of tape
[19:54:38] <Jymmm> like I said... tag em
[19:54:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/breadboard_basic_side.jpg
[19:55:00] <Tom_itx> like that?
[19:55:44] <Jymmm> Sorta, usually a wiring diagram will mark each end of each wire too
[19:56:03] <Jymmm> easy to trace out if ever needed down the road
[19:56:05] <Tom_itx> i did but i'm changing wire
[19:56:12] <Tom_itx> and eliminating a few plugins
[19:56:37] <Jymmm> ah. Are those paper + shrink tubing
[19:56:48] <Tom_itx> labels yes
[19:56:53] <Jymmm> k
[19:56:57] <Tom_itx> paper tended to slip around a bit much
[19:57:08] <Jymmm> Yes, yes it does.
[19:57:11] <Tom_itx> labels stick to the wire so you can shrink the tube easier
[19:57:56] <Jymmm> never had the luxury of a REAL wire label printer =)
[19:58:19] <Tom_itx> nope, just my ghetto wire marking
[19:58:32] <Jymmm> At least not when *I* have to make the harnesses
[19:58:42] <Jymmm> just the booklets
[19:58:58] <Jymmm> which work fine for what they are
[19:59:07] <Tom_itx> i found my 9 cond wire so i won't have to use that white stuff you saw
[19:59:49] <Jymmm> I'd still mark the cable, no need to trace out whch 15+ foot cable is which.
[20:00:02] <Jymmm> 6-12" from the end of it
[20:00:13] <Tom_itx> they're not that long
[20:00:15] <Jymmm> per side
[20:00:21] <Tom_itx> it's all inside the box
[20:00:37] <Jymmm> murphy's law says when you have to trace it out, you wish the tags were there
[20:01:06] <Tom_itx> now i could get my phone trunk wire.. that would have plenty of pairs
[20:01:16] <Jymmm> only 50
[20:01:27] <Tom_itx> i only need 6
[20:01:30] <Tom_itx> on this one
[20:01:34] <Tom_itx> i'll use 9
[20:01:45] <Tom_itx> but the other 3 shouldn't be needed
[20:01:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what pcb will you be using for that 20pin dip?
[20:02:01] <Jymmm> err 28pin
[20:02:06] <Tom_itx> that's just for tutorial
[20:02:13] <Tom_itx> i have tqfp
[20:02:14] <Jymmm> oh
[20:02:17] <Tom_itx> of the same thing
[20:02:23] <Tom_itx> one is in my toaster oven
[20:02:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: is that a dedicate circuit pcb you have?
[20:02:44] <Jymmm> or generic
[20:02:49] <Tom_itx> for which?
[20:02:51] <Tom_itx> the oven?
[20:02:56] <Jymmm> the tqfp
[20:02:59] <Tom_itx> i made it for the oven
[20:03:04] <Jymmm> ah
[20:03:07] <Tom_itx> i didn't bring all the lines out
[20:03:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/boards_index.php
[20:04:01] <Tom_itx> i've got several different boards
[20:04:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'd love to have a generic pcb sorta like ardunio, but only the very basics on it CLK, VR, Socket.
[20:04:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega128_exp_1.jpg
[20:04:27] <Tom_itx> there's a 128
[20:04:37] <Tom_itx> it's got a couple boo boos on it but it works
[20:04:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: program in ardunio, remove, plug in to generic PCB for dedicated usage.
[20:04:51] <Tom_itx> those were the first run
[20:05:11] <Tom_itx> i program in Tom_itx
[20:05:17] <Tom_itx> with my programmer
[20:05:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the booboo bord, that's not ardunio though, right?
[20:05:30] <Tom_itx> i don't have any arduinos
[20:05:33] <Jymmm> k
[20:05:45] <Tom_itx> i need something i make it
[20:06:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: whers the crystal?
[20:06:08] <Jymmm> I see the freq
[20:06:23] <Tom_itx> right above c8 c9
[20:06:26] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:06:38] <Tom_itx> 16Mhz
[20:06:39] <Jymmm> Q1 ?
[20:06:44] <Tom_itx> yep
[20:06:48] <tjb1> Wow Jymmm did you say to use an arduino?
[20:06:49] <tjb1> haha
[20:07:00] <Jymmm> Q = Transistor I though
[20:07:06] <Tom_itx> oh well
[20:07:17] <Jymmm> X = Crystal I thought
[20:07:25] <Tom_itx> maybe so
[20:07:28] <Jymmm> tjb1: and your point it?
[20:07:45] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, you've seen my little programer right?
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: what boo boo's does it have?
[20:07:59] <tjb1> So many people hate arduinos
[20:08:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have a few programmers I believe =)
[20:08:15] <Jymmm> tjb1: why?
[20:08:38] <Tom_itx> on the mega128 it doesn't use spi for ISP and i forgot about that
[20:08:53] <Tom_itx> i had to cut a couple traces and run some wire wrap wire
[20:08:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ah
[20:09:06] <Tom_itx> and the spacing is off on a couple plugs
[20:09:20] <tjb1> Not sure Jymmm, I visit HaD often and they always bitch when something involves an arduino
[20:09:26] <Jymmm> heh, are they stuffed already?
[20:09:52] <Tom_itx> i only made a handfull as they were a first run test
[20:10:03] <Jymmm> tjb1: I can pickup an ardino locally at Frys for $25 if ever needed
[20:10:10] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: ah
[20:10:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32_exp1.jpg
[20:10:29] <Tom_itx> i gave a few of those away
[20:11:19] <Jymmm> cool
[20:11:40] <Jymmm> not that I need that much I/O
[20:12:00] <Jymmm> could get away with 555 much of the time.
[20:12:02] <Tom_itx> what are you making with an avr?
[20:12:27] <Jymmm> simple timers , or triggered timers.
[20:12:42] <Jymmm> or sorta like your oven controller, etc
[20:14:30] <Jymmm> add a 2x16 LCD, couple of buttons, adjust on/off times, etc simple shit.
[20:14:47] <Jymmm> could easily do it with timer relays all day long.
[20:14:53] <Tom_itx> that 128 board has an lcd plug
[20:15:33] <Tom_itx> 128's aren't quite as popular as they used to be
[20:15:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Saly, I'm clueless on programming them though =)
[20:15:56] <Jymmm> Sadly
[20:16:35] <Jymmm> thus the whole arduino stuff.
[20:16:46] <Tom_itx> it's really pretty easy
[20:17:01] <Tom_itx> you don't know what you've got with arduino code
[20:17:03] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Heh, if I remembered C that is =)
[20:17:19] <Tom_itx> it's just like riding a bike
[20:17:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/atmega32u4/atmega32u4_1.jpg
[20:17:59] <Jymmm> if you do it regularlly that is.
[20:18:00] <Tom_itx> that's a handy little board
[20:18:20] <Tom_itx> i don't
[20:19:14] <Tom_itx> i keep a few spares on hadn though http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/new_batch/USB_chips.jpg
[20:19:20] <Tom_itx> hand*
[20:19:23] <tjb1> I like how it takes Fedex 5 days to drive 5 hours
[20:19:58] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: heh, just one or two spares I see =)
[20:20:32] <Tom_itx> those are for my programmers
[20:20:52] <Jymmm> ah
[20:51:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: AH HA! Cheater! http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/avricemkii.jpg =)
[20:56:21] <Tom_itx> that was a clone avrice mkii
[20:56:24] <Tom_itx> i never use it
[20:56:40] <Jymmm> clone? looks like the real thing to me
[20:56:47] <Tom_itx> that was purchased before i made my little programmers
[20:57:09] <Tom_itx> nope, i got it purely to do PDI programming and when i got it, it didn't support it
[20:57:18] <Tom_itx> PDI is for the xmega chips
[20:57:22] <Jymmm> It's all good, nothing like having the "Real Thing" (tm) aorund when someone bitches =)
[20:57:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/KlXSG.jpg
[20:57:47] <Tom_itx> i do have a dragon though
[20:57:57] <Tom_itx> never use it either
[21:24:32] <tjb1> Anyone use a G540 on a plasma setup?
[21:46:43] <jdh> geometry isntyour strong point.
[22:20:44] <skunkworks> how did I get along without a sawzall
[22:22:07] <ScribbleJ> I bought one on accident and haven't used it once I think.
[22:41:09] <A0Sheds> http://www.rockfordballscrew.com/pdf/rbs-catalog/pg86-87-preloaded-ballscrew.pdf anyone else make a Bridgeport kit as good for less?
[22:47:08] <Tom_itx> i've nearly worn one out
[22:49:22] <skunkworks> I never really thought it was a needed tool... But you can use it as a hatchet or a scalpel.
[22:53:03] <skunkworks> The suprising thing to me is you can cut half way through something. You would think it would kick - but with a little finess - it works very well
[23:05:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I need a tabletop version of one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRov4db3zvc
[23:06:19] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control3.jpg
[23:09:16] <A0Sheds> UV cured screen press? I'd just use UV inkjet
[23:10:03] <Jymmm> in a ROUND bottle?
[23:10:07] <Jymmm> on a
[23:10:25] <A0Sheds> yes, it's just a rectangle wrapped around an axis
[23:10:33] <A0Sheds> those are easy
[23:10:33] <Jymmm> uh huh
[23:11:07] <A0Sheds> handlebars or exhaust pipers get a bit more tricky
[23:11:10] <Jymmm> show me the inkjet print head ready to go, and we'll talk
[23:11:27] <Tom_itx> it's just automated screen printing
[23:11:38] <A0Sheds> ~$100K 5 color CMYK+W
[23:11:40] <Tom_itx> even you could figure that out
[23:11:50] <Jymmm> No, just black would be fine.
[23:11:55] <Tom_itx> make a frame and rotate an axis the same rate as the frame
[23:12:12] <Jymmm> talk is cheap =)
[23:12:14] <Tom_itx> hold a squeege above it
[23:12:55] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5RIgjx7aY here's a dumbed down version
[23:13:04] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: But if you can show me a head ready to print on a tube, I'm all ears.
[23:13:14] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you really think that would be that tough?
[23:13:33] <Tom_itx> linuxcnc could do that easy
[23:13:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: The automation of handling of the tubes, yes.
[23:13:37] <Tom_itx> synch 2 axis
[23:13:53] <Tom_itx> that's where your little chinese girls come in
[23:13:54] <Tom_itx> :)
[23:14:38] <Jymmm> I'd rather have american older girls instead =)
[23:15:00] <Tom_itx> you'd likely get less production
[23:15:15] <Jymmm> I dont think I'd care at that point =)
[23:15:33] <A0Sheds> Jymmm, put your $100K in escrow, not a problem
[23:15:54] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: I'm still waiting for the video demo from you.
[23:16:22] <A0Sheds> and I'm still waiting for the $100K in escrow
[23:16:44] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: You have to have something, before you see any money
[23:16:52] <Jymmm> this aint that vaporware shit
[23:17:05] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: were those jacsks on the side already there?
[23:17:12] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Technically, you could log this, send him a bill and it would hold in court ;)
[23:17:23] <A0Sheds> multiaxis inkjet printers have been around for a while
[23:17:45] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, nah Jymmm is usually full of hot air anyway
[23:18:29] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: looks nice =)
[23:18:59] <Tom_itx> even nicer when it's back up and running
[23:19:47] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Great, so when I take A0Sheds to court for not providing a tabletop version of a tube printing machine I'll be sure to subpoena you too =)
[23:20:10] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFYNSZUntgc&feature=relmfu
[23:20:26] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I was assuming he'd build it prior to sending you the bill.
[23:20:58] <A0Sheds> just watch the magic above, it must be magic, it can't be real
[23:21:03] <A0Sheds> my brain hurts
[23:21:03] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: And I want to see a video demo of it ding it's thing prior to escrow =)
[23:21:12] <A0Sheds> haha
[23:21:20] <Jymmm> doing
[23:21:58] <Jymmm> the issues isn't printing, it loading unloading the tubes
[23:23:01] <A0Sheds> that too hard
[23:23:27] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: What are you working on that needs that kind of printing anyway?
[23:23:46] <Jymmm> packaging
[23:23:50] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKoZcNLYSsg&feature=related
[23:23:59] <A0Sheds> also impossible ^^
[23:24:45] <A0Sheds> modified epson 1800-ish
[23:25:43] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: You designed things like that?
[23:26:37] <FinboySlick> I always kind of hated printers but I have to admit that this stuff is cool.
[23:26:55] <A0Sheds> mostly tougher applications using robot arms for non-planar surfaces
[23:27:13] <Jymmm> Again, getting in a tube isn't the issue, isn't the loading/unloading that is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIqNGKvCqts&feature=related
[23:27:21] <A0Sheds> working mostly on 3d printers now
[23:27:27] <Jymmm> s/in/ink/
[23:27:54] <A0Sheds> must be fake
[23:28:33] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: Right, how is that coming along, btw?
[23:28:35] <A0Sheds> robot arms and grippers can't do things like that
[23:28:54] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: Just come back when your sober, alright?
[23:30:10] <A0Sheds> sorry Jymmm, I'll run all the tech past you first for you to decide what's possible or not
[23:30:35] <A0Sheds> it must be some Chicago thing
[23:31:36] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, lots of new designs and photopolymers
[23:32:12] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: URL me again so I can spend the rest of my evening dreaming of possibilities?
[23:32:16] <A0Sheds> printing multilayer circuit boards with only liquids, board and traces
[23:32:34] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: That's pretty clever.
[23:33:56] <A0Sheds> FinboySlick, the DLP printers?
[23:34:38] <FinboySlick> A0Sheds: I think so. You had a link with lots of designs and discussions.
[23:34:55] <A0Sheds> http://code.google.com/p/lemoncurry/wiki/main
[23:35:11] <FinboySlick> That's it.
[23:35:12] <A0Sheds> there are several site
[23:35:15] <A0Sheds> s
[23:35:54] <A0Sheds> this is all the easy DIY stuff
[23:36:39] <FinboySlick> Still can't believe how awesome the samples are.
[23:37:20] <A0Sheds> working on a FDM extruder that also has 4 color inkjet
[23:37:32] <FinboySlick> FDM?
[23:37:48] <A0Sheds> print with white filament but end up with 4 color process objects
[23:38:12] <A0Sheds> reprap
[23:38:20] <A0Sheds> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fused_deposition_modeling
[23:38:24] <FinboySlick> OK. So you mix in the color with the material?
[23:38:29] <A0Sheds> the molten plastic printers
[23:38:45] <A0Sheds> yes, while it's still molten
[23:39:11] <Jymmm> A0Sheds: oh, the oe where the "inkjet" adds the pigment on the fly?
[23:39:14] <Jymmm> one
[23:39:27] <FinboySlick> Pretty clever. You could put 4 nozzles orthogonal to the extrusion path and just trigger them to get the right colour.
[23:39:33] <Jymmm> saw that on discovery channel
[23:39:34] <A0Sheds> just as it's extruded
[23:40:12] <Jymmm> uses standard hp unkjet carteidges for the pigment
[23:40:37] <Jymmm> they just re/fill them with special inks
[23:41:07] <A0Sheds> was probably a z-corp type powder + binder
[23:41:09] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I think those work by squirting a bonding agent in powder.
[23:41:19] <A0Sheds> that another type of 3d printer
[23:41:58] <Jymmm> no idea, it annoyed me that they demoed the whole thing with a lame ass object instead of something really cool to show off the process.
[23:42:16] <Jymmm> they even did the 3D scanning too
[23:42:18] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You just wanted them to print a little pony.
[23:42:27] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: O_o
[23:42:56] * FinboySlick gratuitously accuses Jymmm of bronyism.
[23:43:16] <A0Sheds> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpGrFBHhlsM
[23:43:17] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: wth?
[23:43:31] <A0Sheds> 3D Printing Demo 1 - ZCorp ^^
[23:43:56] <A0Sheds> zcorps are slow since they use HP TIJ heads
[23:44:05] <FinboySlick> Every time I hear that piece I think of one of the competitors in Gazillionaire.
[23:46:23] <Jymmm> This is waht I need, but direct print instead of labeling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lWEQad7zY8
[23:48:03] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: You printing bottles or what not?
[23:48:31] <A0Sheds> printers like that should be pretty standard by the end of the year from suppliers in China once we get the factory running
[23:48:54] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: packaging
[23:49:08] <FinboySlick> But why do you package in tubes?
[23:49:18] <FinboySlick> Package in square boxes, it's a lot easier ;)
[23:50:47] <A0Sheds> the reason you see all the retrofit printers being used for these apps is because of licensing issues with the printhead makers
[23:51:13] <A0Sheds> it's nearly impossible to purchase inkjet heads
[23:52:22] <A0Sheds> they want a small very controlled market
[23:58:11] <FinboySlick> That makes my free-market person very angry. Market belongs to whoever makes the best stuff for the best price, not whoever locks out competition.