#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-15

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[00:43:18] <Jymmm> Finboyslick http://www.mini-box.com/picoLCD
[02:09:58] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:10:49] <Jymmm> ug
[02:10:57] <DJ9DJ> good morning Jymmm
[02:12:32] <Jymmm> =)
[02:26:05] <Loetmichel> mornin
[02:50:59] <uw> does anybody have a recommendation for dwg to gcode converter?
[02:51:13] <uw> im using dxf2gcode now and well, not happy with it
[05:23:38] <r00t4rd3d> pycam?
[05:55:21] <jthornton> Loetmichel, what size rods are you using in this photo http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[06:15:55] * Tom_itx passes coffee and donuts around the room
[06:25:16] * archivist snaffles all the spare doughnuts that the people away from the screen were too slow to get
[06:36:46] <jthornton> I have my own built in doughnut
[06:40:14] <archivist> I felt so slim when I visited the US of A :)
[06:44:33] <archivist> although I believe we have some record breaking weighty people over here http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-05-25/britain-obese-teen/55210174/1
[06:45:43] <jthornton> The U.K. has one of Europe's fattest populations: more than 60% of adults and one third of children aged 10-11 are overweight or obese, roughly similar to U.S. statistics.
[06:47:44] <jthornton> yesterday when I took the MIL to PT there was a 350 pound woman leaning against the "No Smoking within 50' of the entrance" sign smoking a cigarette...
[06:48:14] <jthornton> we seem to have a large number of slackers that eat and smoke all day and have babies on our dime around here
[06:50:40] <archivist> but, on a happier note, I thought the over arm/bar on the horizontal would be impossible to get out without a press, lump hammer and a bit of brass a few taps and it moved
[06:51:22] <archivist> then was able to rotate it to de rust and eventually get it free
[06:51:54] <jthornton> I love it when a plan comes together
[06:52:53] <jthornton> I was cutting a 24.5mm plate off of the gen set trailer tongue only to find out when they built the trailer they had welded it on the inside of the channel too!
[06:53:21] <jthornton> so it is cutting torch time this morning
[06:54:15] <archivist> I expected a much harder fight with the rust, but the part actually in the frame was rust free basicly
[06:55:21] <jthornton> nice
[07:02:09] <jthornton> archivist, do you have a photo of what your working on?
[07:03:25] <archivist> that is the mill when at work http://www.archivist.info/cnc/works2008/P1010225.JPG
[07:04:10] <archivist> I cannot stand that far back in the garage to take a similar one now
[07:04:27] <jthornton> lol I understand
[07:05:37] <jthornton> do you move the over arm in and out as needed for the job, I've never ran a mill like that...
[07:07:14] <archivist> if only used as a horizontal, no need to move it, but I want to use as a vertical on the side and as a horizontal boring machine
[07:08:49] <archivist> I made up the boring head adapter on Monday (neighbour wants a bit of his lorry boring)
[07:12:21] <jthornton> cool
[08:29:09] <Tom_itx> jthornton, those 'slackers' are encouraged to be slackers
[08:30:34] <Loetmichel> jthornton: 16mm ground and hardened
[08:35:25] <Tom_itx> archivist what is the large rod coming out above the cutter for?
[08:54:40] <archivist> Tom_itx, supports the arbour http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_12_Milling_scrap/IMG_1242.JPG
[08:56:07] <Tom_itx> if i were awake i may have figured that out :)
[08:56:14] <archivist> :)
[08:56:25] <Tom_itx> makes perfect sense
[09:00:41] <skunkworks> logger[psha]_:
[09:00:41] <logger[psha]_> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-15.html
[09:37:02] <sendoushi> http://www.buildyourcnc.com/Documents/CNC%20Kit%201-1.pdf hurray plans!
[09:40:09] <JT-Shop> that doesn't show much except you need a mill to make all the parts
[09:43:17] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop did you get your plasma figured out?
[09:44:24] <JT-Shop> yes
[09:45:05] <Tom_itx> what was the issue?
[09:48:39] <JT-Shop> there was two problems, if you don't have a file loaded you can't call a subroutine from the MDI and this caused problem #2 trying to reload LinuxCNC with 4Gb of memory and the lan cable plugged in ubuntu thought it better to have a different kernel
[09:49:01] <Tom_itx> how nice of it
[09:50:12] <JT-Shop> better to know the exact cause than wonder why something won't work as expected
[09:50:23] * JT-Shop goes to walk the dog
[09:50:40] <Tom_itx> so in order for any sub to work with MDI you must first load some random gcode file?
[09:55:23] <sendoushi> what is a coupling for?
[09:55:43] <Tom_itx> to join 2 shafts
[09:55:57] <sendoushi> and why is that needed on a cnc?
[09:55:59] <jdhNC> or just for recreational purposes.
[09:56:26] <Tom_itx> to join the motor to the threaded rod
[09:56:33] <sendoushi> ooohhh
[09:56:57] <sendoushi> then it's needed
[09:56:57] <Tom_itx> you should reconsider buying a ready made one if you need help like that
[09:57:24] <sendoushi> no money for such a thing eheeh
[09:57:33] <sendoushi> i would buy a kit on the 400 500$
[09:57:38] <sendoushi> but the problem is that i'm not from the us
[09:57:43] <sendoushi> i'm from europe so i pay costumes
[09:58:00] <Tom_itx> you wear costumes, you pay customs
[09:58:08] <sendoushi> :$ oops
[09:58:18] <sendoushi> it really sound weird when i was writing it
[09:59:00] <jdhNC> any localish people that could help you out?
[09:59:35] <sendoushi> well my brother as a metal factory so...
[10:00:08] <sendoushi> this channel has been a great help also
[10:01:48] <sendoushi> but still trying to figure stuff out
[10:02:36] <sendoushi> mechanics is kind of scaring me
[10:03:17] <jdhNC> connor: those cheap 3/16" end mills worked great for cutting out the stepper mounts. I did snap one with an ill-typed mdi though
[10:04:25] <Connor> jdhNC: It happens. :)
[10:05:00] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270996178348
[10:06:36] <jdhNC> I ended up sanding/scotchbriting the stepper covers. Even after 3 coats, it still wasn't smooth. I lightly sprayed after sanding and it seemed to coat evenly this time.
[10:07:42] <sendoushi> http://www.damencnc.com/en/components/mechanical-parts/trapezium-nuts---spindles is this what i'm looking for? :P:P
[10:08:27] <jdhNC> depends, what are you looking for?
[10:08:37] <sendoushi> for the acme precision rod
[10:08:40] <sendoushi> (i think)
[10:09:16] <jdhNC> probably fine. not sure how 'precision' it is. It might not really be acme, but that doesn't matter.
[10:09:31] <sendoushi> can't find acme in europe so...
[10:09:46] <jdhNC> doesn't matter
[10:10:10] <jdhNC> acme is sometimes a generic term anyway.
[10:10:11] <sendoushi> is the linear bearing block the "thing" that goes with the rod?
[10:10:30] <sendoushi> i just find expensive stuff nhieee
[10:10:37] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yes it can be a one line file with m2 in it...
[10:10:44] <Tom_itx> heh
[10:11:17] <sendoushi> the mechanics of this really scaries me
[10:11:18] <Tom_itx> oh, is there a way to change the default file loaded so the logo file doesn't always come up?
[10:11:19] <jdhNC> you need a bearing block of some sort at the driven end at least. Not a linear bearing block though.
[10:11:36] <JT-Shop> yep
[10:11:37] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, or to not have a file load on startup...
[10:12:02] <Tom_itx> maybe i should have asked how. linuxcnc seems to always have a way...
[10:12:13] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config/ini_config.html#_display_section_a_id_sub_display_section_a
[10:12:20] <sendoushi> it would be interesting to find a mechanic kit in europe ehehe
[10:12:26] <JT-Shop> see open file
[10:12:33] <Tom_itx> ok
[10:12:36] <jdhNC> sendoushi: where in eu?
[10:12:39] <Tom_itx> gotta go hang a shelf first
[10:12:44] <JT-Shop> I'm sure they have many over on that side of the pond
[10:12:47] <sendoushi> it doesn't matter since i'm thinking on buying online
[10:12:57] * JT-Shop gets the cutting torch out now
[10:13:18] <sendoushi> MDF doesn't fright me
[10:13:22] <JT-Shop> I thought you were worried about the costumes?
[10:13:25] <sendoushi> but these coupplings and shafts and stuff...
[10:13:34] <sendoushi> inside EU there isn't customs
[10:13:39] <JT-Shop> that's part of the puzzle
[10:14:03] <sendoushi> the problem is that the puzzle can become expensive if i don't know what i want eheh
[10:14:08] <sendoushi> or where to go
[10:14:10] <jdhNC> but there is VAT?
[10:14:18] <JT-Shop> if it puzzles you then scratch built might not be a viable solution
[10:14:21] <sendoushi> most of the times there is vat
[10:15:56] <Connor> jdhNC: You took it paint all off and sanded and sprayed again ? with light coat ?
[10:16:24] <jdhNC> connor: no, I just took the top off the existing paint (and smoothed out the runs)
[10:16:35] <Connor> ok.
[10:16:54] <Connor> what about the sides ? That's what kept giving me the strange effect...
[10:16:54] <sendoushi> i can only find expensive hardware like hiwin and stuff
[10:17:07] <jdhNC> same thing
[10:17:19] <Connor> okay. Cool.
[10:17:28] <jdhNC> senoushi: only the best CE parts for you!
[10:17:35] <sendoushi> hm?
[10:17:51] <jdhNC> can you buy parts in eu that are not CE/fit-for-purpose?
[10:18:08] <sendoushi> still not getting :$
[10:22:20] <sendoushi> why can i only see expensive stuff when i know there are less expensive? otherwise there wouldn't be those kits on US
[10:22:46] <sendoushi> leadscrew or ballscrew people?
[10:24:02] <jdhNC> leadscrew is usually cheaper and less precise
[10:24:12] <tjb1> Depends on your wallet :)
[10:24:48] <sendoushi> my wallet has flies
[10:24:49] <sendoushi> :D
[10:24:57] <sendoushi> then leadscrew is the way :D
[10:25:27] <Connor> how big you making?
[10:25:35] <Connor> you can use belt/chain drive too..
[10:25:42] <sendoushi> guitar big
[10:25:56] <Connor> Oh yea, that's right. So not super large.
[10:26:03] <sendoushi> no...
[10:26:11] <jdhNC> acoustic or electric?
[10:26:20] <sendoushi> 21.6'' * 18.1'' * 4'' i think this is the max
[10:26:29] <sendoushi> electric
[10:26:33] <tjb1> Its that time of the year for Wikipedia....
[10:26:36] <sendoushi> and semi-acoustic
[10:26:48] <Connor> sendoushi: Moving Gantry or moving table ?
[10:26:59] <sendoushi> thinking about moving gantry but... you tell me :$
[10:27:01] <Connor> mine was moving gantry.
[10:27:37] <sendoushi> moving table needs space right?
[10:27:44] <Connor> About the same either way. You still need the same parts. In some cases moving table can cost more $$ because need more travel of the table to reach desired goal.
[10:27:46] <sendoushi> and there is not much of a difference right?
[10:28:01] <sendoushi> moving gantry is the way to go
[10:28:09] <jdhNC> now do you make the neck?
[10:28:28] <sendoushi> jdhNC: as a beginner no but i'll want to make it
[10:28:34] * Tom_itx looks puzzled at the puzzle
[10:28:40] <sendoushi> but maybe when i do the neck im ready to upgrade my cnc
[10:28:55] <Connor> Some people like moving table over moving gantry because they want the gantry to be more stable or rigid. Example, people using it to make PCB need way more accuracy.
[10:29:15] <sendoushi> Connor: i dont need more precision than 1mm
[10:29:20] <sendoushi> i can always hand-finish
[10:29:25] <Connor> moving gantry is good then.
[10:29:58] <sendoushi> of course that if i have more precision... the better but for now...
[10:29:59] <jdhNC> strat or tele body?
[10:30:17] <sendoushi> more of a tele guy but i'll make ES-335 also
[10:30:24] <sendoushi> the first one will be a tele
[10:33:48] <sendoushi> by the way i have access to a CNC (my brother's metal factory has one)
[10:34:08] <sendoushi> so... it's an industrial one bought to mill metal
[10:39:23] <mazafaka> Hello :) This one is my now: http://s2.images.drive2.ru/car.photos/x8/3860/000/000/08b/29e/48cf178e8aee40fd-large.jpg
[10:40:37] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: nice place to fit a router in
[10:41:09] <IchGuckLive> as a onroute gravejard milling job
[10:41:42] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: use water pump for cooling O.O
[10:41:43] <sendoushi> im so screwed lol
[10:42:10] <IchGuckLive> sendoushi: why you are fine with your parts
[10:42:35] <IchGuckLive> TB6560 the nema23 at 1.65A
[10:42:57] <IchGuckLive> the TR12x4 for direkt 0.01mm precise
[10:43:17] <IchGuckLive> cheep fast and good to handle
[10:43:47] <sendoushi> the problem is the hardware
[10:44:07] <IchGuckLive> MDF ?
[10:44:10] <sendoushi> nop
[10:44:16] <sendoushi> leadscrews, couplings, blocks...
[10:44:22] <sendoushi> the metal hardware
[10:44:23] <IchGuckLive> for guitar milling why not
[10:44:34] <sendoushi> yes MDF of course
[10:44:41] <sendoushi> but as i said the problem is on the rest of the stuff
[10:44:47] <IchGuckLive> NP
[10:44:53] <sendoushi> the only things i find online are expensive
[10:45:05] <sendoushi> and takes my cnc to over 800e or something lol
[10:45:20] <sendoushi> more the work which I have to do and engineer
[10:45:28] <sendoushi> and which I dont know much
[10:45:47] <IchGuckLive> let me give you some dealers
[10:45:48] <sendoushi> i really would like to do a cnc but these hardwares matters...
[10:45:51] <sendoushi> :)
[10:46:35] <IchGuckLive> http://stores.ebay.de/Metallbau-Pietrzak?_trksid=p4340.l2563
[10:47:01] <JT-Shop> http://axis.unpy.net/etchcnc
[10:47:11] <JT-Shop> not too much hardware there and cheap
[10:47:13] <IchGuckLive> harden stteel pins 12H6 C53 sendoushi
[10:47:17] <sendoushi> JT-Shop: you really like that etch cnc lol
[10:47:33] <mazafaka> Yeah, plan to change the arc to fit bigger wheels, although not making a monster truck
[10:47:36] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: what are those?
[10:47:42] <JT-Shop> not really but it seems to fit within your requirements :)
[10:48:01] <IchGuckLive> the pins for the axis to be ballbeard
[10:48:03] * Tom_itx snickers
[10:48:08] <sendoushi> JT-Shop: that can build a guitar? :P
[10:48:16] <Connor> My Little MDF machine uses Chinese 4-Axis stepper controller, and steppers from Long Motors. I used linear rails and ball screws from linearmotionbearings2008 off of ebay.
[10:48:18] <Tom_itx> an air guitar
[10:48:43] <sendoushi> hehe
[10:48:45] <JT-Shop> nope... neither can a $50 CNC
[10:49:03] <sendoushi> i'm not asking for a 50$ cnc but a 500$
[10:49:05] <tjb1> I have a really stupid question…the plasma cutter has two pins that when measured give the shield voltage, how can I run that through a voltage divider
[10:49:23] <IchGuckLive> sendoushi: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Trapezgewindespindel-Prazision-TR16x4-re-C35E-1m-3606-/390336460933?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5ae1ddb885
[10:49:25] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: sorry the ignorance but... what are those for?
[10:49:25] <JT-Shop> a string of resistors
[10:49:32] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: the pins...
[10:49:44] <Connor> sendoushi: You might be able to get the mechanics for $500.00, but, your still going to need the controller and steppers..
[10:49:49] <tjb1> Yes JT, but the divder runs to ground…instead of running to ground would I run it back to the other pin?
[10:49:56] <IchGuckLive> how do you expect to move the Axes around
[10:50:01] <sendoushi> 500$ for the mechanics? can't i get it for like 300$ ?
[10:50:17] <IchGuckLive> around 200USD for all
[10:50:28] <IchGuckLive> is a good price
[10:50:36] <JT-Shop> sure but remember you want to make things too
[10:50:37] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: from what i've seen motor -> coupling -> leadscrew -> block -> moves! isn't this right?
[10:50:49] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, so if no OPEN_FILE is specified it defaults to the logo?
[10:50:56] <JT-Shop> yep
[10:51:48] <JT-Shop> sendoushi: http://buildyourcnc.com/step1.aspx
[10:51:52] <Connor> I spent $467.00 USD on the rails, rail blocks, the ballscrews, ballscrew mounts, and couplers..
[10:52:09] <Connor> that total included the 99 shipping.
[10:52:22] <sendoushi> JT-Shop: i was thinking about that design
[10:52:27] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, does it use PROGRAM_PREFIX or do i need to specify the full path?
[10:52:37] <sendoushi> JT-Shop: to make it a little cheaper
[10:52:42] <tjb1> JT-Shop: would I run one wire from one pin through both resistors than back to the other pin?
[10:52:47] <JT-Shop> I'm not saying it is great but it seems to fit
[10:52:57] <sendoushi> i know
[10:53:18] <JT-Shop> tjb1: IIRC I put them resistors end to end
[10:53:29] <IchGuckLive> sendoushi: yes and here is our chinese counterpart frend http://www.auctiva.com/stores/viewstore2.aspx?id=1306389&styleid=72
[10:53:36] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what is it?
[10:53:37] <Connor> I later purchased 3 more ballscrews/nuts for 190usd.
[10:53:47] <IchGuckLive> Ballscrews 1,5m for 70USD
[10:53:49] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: ?
[10:53:55] <Tom_itx> PROGRAM_PREFIX = ~/emc2/nc_files - The default location for g-code files and the location for user-defined M-codes. This location is searched for the file name before the subroutine path and user M path if specified in the [RS274NGC]
[10:53:55] <tjb1> JT-Shop: I know that, you pull the new voltage from in between…im not sure how to do it through as the divider should go to ground but I cant measure the voltage between this pin and the machine ground
[10:54:10] <Tom_itx> or do i need to specify that in the OPEN_FILE var as well?
[10:54:17] <Tom_itx> i'll just test it and see...
[10:54:20] <JT-Shop> tjb1: google voltage divider circuit
[10:54:29] <sendoushi> IchGuckLive: ballscrews seems kind of expensive... isnt leadscrew better for me?
[10:54:50] <IchGuckLive> sendoushi: querry ?
[10:54:54] <sendoushi> querry?
[10:54:59] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: ok, the OPEN_FILE can be any path AFAIK
[10:55:18] <tjb1> JT-Shop: I already know how it works :) you take the voltage + run it through two resistors then go to ground and you pull the new voltage from in between the two resistors
[10:55:35] <IchGuckLive> sendoushi: ther shoudt be a new open folder in your irc frame
[10:55:36] <JT-Shop> then you know more than me :)
[10:56:16] <Tom_itx> that's called a voltage divider
[10:56:26] <tjb1> Im just not sure how to hook up the divder with the plasma cutter as you measure the voltage between the two pins and not a ground
[10:56:57] <JT-Shop> on the THCAD card I just put the resistors in line with the +
[10:57:00] <Tom_itx> +V---DIVIDED V----GND
[10:57:24] <Tom_itx> +V-/\/\--DIVIDED V--/\/\--GND
[10:57:44] <tjb1> I guess im not explaining this good enough :P
[10:58:45] <JT-Shop> or I don't have a clue what your talking about
[10:58:49] <tjb1> The plasma cutter has two pins for the shield voltage, neither is a ground…so would it be Pin 1 - /\/\ -- Divided V -- /\/\ - Pin 2
[10:58:50] <Tom_itx> if i had a plasma it may make more sense
[10:59:21] <JT-Shop> tjb1: what kind of plasma cutter is it?
[10:59:24] <Tom_itx> or what jt said
[10:59:26] <Tom_itx> :)
[10:59:34] <tjb1> hypertherm powermax 45
[11:00:01] <JT-Shop> does it have two pins on the circuit board for tip voltage?
[11:00:13] <tjb1> Well it has the two pins in the CPC port
[11:00:39] <JT-Shop> different than the 1250 then
[11:00:41] <tjb1> Its already 50:1 with a max of 7v and I need to bring it down to a max of 5v thus the need for this voltage divider
[11:01:19] <JT-Shop> mine is a 0-300vdc signal
[11:01:56] <JT-Shop> all I know is what pcw told me to do on mine
[11:02:03] <tjb1> Well I need to go to work, I will confuse you all later :)
[11:02:12] <Tom_itx> what voltage is across the 2 pins?
[11:02:16] <JT-Shop> ok, I look forward to it
[11:02:32] <tjb1> Maybe I will make a picture to better illustrate my confusion
[11:02:39] <Tom_itx> full color
[11:02:46] <JT-Shop> ok
[11:02:51] <tjb1> Tom_itx: the voltage acrtoss the pins is the arc voltage
[11:03:04] <Tom_itx> but you need less of it?
[11:03:15] <tjb1> Well the 7v will hurt my micro
[11:03:52] <Tom_itx> is one of them ground?
[11:03:52] <tjb1> I need to get it down to 0v-5v so I can make the THC
[11:03:57] <Tom_itx> and one +7v?
[11:04:20] <tjb1> I tested them against the ground in the CPC and neither checked out
[11:04:36] <tjb1> So either the CPC ground is a different one or im completely stupid :)
[11:04:41] <Tom_itx> is the CPC grounded to the same board as the pins?
[11:04:57] <tjb1> Not a clue
[11:04:58] <Tom_itx> all grounds should tie together under normal circumstances
[11:05:14] <tjb1> I tested both pins against the ground in there with the continuity check
[11:05:30] <Tom_itx> test each voltage to gnd
[11:05:50] <tjb1> Pin 1 - Pin 2 = shield voltage
[11:06:00] <tjb1> Pin 1 - ground = nothing and pin 2 - ground = nothing
[11:06:25] <Tom_itx> then they must not share a common ground
[11:06:41] <tjb1> Well I will see what I can come up with for tonight
[11:06:45] <tjb1> I have the service manual
[11:07:24] <Tom_itx> it may be isolated for a reason. i have no clue about that
[11:07:48] <JT-Shop> mine is just two pins and no connection to ground
[11:08:05] <JT-Shop> IIRC
[11:11:22] <tjb1> Thats what I think mine is JT-Shop and thats why im not sure how to hook up a voltage divider because it requires the ground
[11:11:35] <tjb1> Good bye all, be back in about 5-6 hours
[11:12:11] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: what do you think of this design so far? http://imagebin.org/216515
[11:15:38] <archivist> JT-Shop, more rigid than most designs we see
[11:16:33] <JT-Shop> yea, based on Loetmichel's design which I like very much
[11:17:08] <JT-Shop> so far only one part needs to be machined
[11:17:22] <jdhNC> the bearing mount?
[11:18:40] <JT-Shop> yea
[11:19:15] <jdhNC> 16 skate bearings for $9.98 shipped
[11:19:16] <Tom_itx> i like it but what about a solid radius'd bearing on the top and a springloaded radius'd bearing on the top?
[11:19:59] <Tom_itx> you are going for the cheap?
[11:20:27] <mozmck> JT-Shop: how will you ensure the supports are exact enough to make sure the rods are straight?
[11:20:33] <Tom_itx> then the bearings could mount to the outter plate
[11:21:37] <archivist> mozmck, clamp all 5 parts together and drill at the same time
[11:21:38] <JT-Shop> if your equipment challenged then make a drill guide and drill the holes before cutting out the missing parts
[11:21:43] <jdhNC> if you mount them top and bottom, the rails have no support
[11:22:06] <mozmck> that makes sense. neat design.
[11:22:26] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I'm going for cost effective and rigid enough to actually work
[11:22:44] <jdhNC> JT: work for plastic/wood or metal?
[11:22:48] <JT-Shop> mozmck: not my idea, I stole from Loetmichel
[11:23:04] <Tom_itx> err swap those, put the loaded bearing on the bottom
[11:23:17] <JT-Shop> jdhNC: dunno if it would be stout enough for more than engraving metal
[11:23:18] <Tom_itx> it should work fine, except the radiused bearings may cost more
[11:24:05] <JT-Shop> yea, R3 bearings are cheap on flea bay
[11:24:16] <Tom_itx> and screwing them to the plate would be less machining
[11:24:30] <Tom_itx> figuring out the spring loaded flange may take some thought
[11:24:40] <JT-Shop> I'm not following your thoughts
[11:25:12] <Tom_itx> instead of the 2 inner plates, bolt the bearings there instead to the outter plate
[11:25:20] <Tom_itx> and spring load the bottom set
[11:25:34] <jdhNC> that doesn't give you any side-to-side rigidity
[11:25:39] <Tom_itx> it would require a spacer
[11:26:09] <uw> 39A
[11:26:18] <jdhNC> 36C
[11:26:19] <uw> accident sorry
[11:27:23] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: the bearings are on a 45 degree angle, how would you bolt them to the outer plate?
[11:27:50] <Tom_itx> different bearings with a radius'd outter race
[11:28:26] <Tom_itx> but they would likely cost alot more so it may not be an option
[11:28:49] <jdhNC> 45 gives support in both axes
[11:29:09] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/216517
[11:29:27] <Tom_itx> yeah i know, rue made one
[11:29:33] <Tom_itx> similar
[11:29:53] <Tom_itx> how do you take up slack?
[11:29:58] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: I've seen V bearings but not with a radius and yea they would be expensive
[11:30:01] <archivist> if the holder is eccentric one can preload a bit
[11:30:52] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: my guess is with shim stock on top of the shafts
[11:30:52] <jdhNC> cam'ed shoulder bolt?
[11:31:00] <archivist> yup
[11:32:08] <archivist> or something similar an eccentric sleeve and normal cap head screws
[11:33:41] <jdhNC> the preload will be relative to the bearing in plane with it?
[11:35:16] <archivist> one of the low cost suppliers has the right part for that bearing adjustment
[11:37:39] <archivist> http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/ProductImages/wheels3.JPG
[11:39:00] <jdhNC> what keeps it from clocking?
[11:40:44] <archivist> clocking? clocks keep time, they dont machine stuff
[11:40:45] <JT-Shop> anyone have a 3-d model of a nema23 stepper?
[11:42:03] <jdhNC> http://grabcad.com/library/nema23-stepper
[11:42:52] <JT-Shop> cool, what am I signing up for the download?
[11:43:04] <jdhNC> no clue, lots of others so skip that one.
[11:43:12] <jdhNC> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/58482-cad_nema_23_stepper_motor.html
[11:43:26] <jdhNC> a couple in there, assuming you already have an account.
[11:43:28] <JT-Shop> I mean it wants me to sign up to grabcad
[11:44:04] <jdhNC> right. no idea what they do with your info. There are some model links in the cnczone url
[11:44:15] <JT-Shop> have you signed up to grabcad?
[11:44:16] <archivist> I suppose the site is supported by mail spam
[11:44:34] <jdhNC> no. But the rendering of the model looks nice.
[11:45:07] <JT-Shop> yea, seems to me I have one from when I designed the plasma table... now what did I do with that?
[11:45:26] <jdhNC> you put it some place safe so you wouldn't forget where it was.
[11:45:42] <JT-Shop> yea, that's it
[11:46:40] <Jymmm> $14 http://www.frys.com/product/6052188
[11:46:55] <JT-Shop> actually the one from the zone is perfect
[11:47:15] <jdhNC> what 3d package are you using?
[11:47:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: As I don't know what most of this shit is, though they seem to have pretty good pricing on most items, tell me what you think... https://www.stcvalve.com/index.htm
[11:48:02] <jdhNC> http://www.cncrouterparts.com/images/Original%20Linear%20Carriage.jpg
[11:49:21] <JT-Shop> one for a flat rail system
[11:49:56] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: a bunch of pneumatic parts it looks like
[11:51:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: it's the specifics I have no clue on, does it seem like crap components? Quality? Full or partial line (I can't find check valves, but they might go by another name), etc
[11:54:14] <archivist> jdhNC, that was the one I was thinking about but they dont seem to sell the eccentric bush separate
[11:54:26] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: hard to say if it is shit or not just looking at the photos... I only use PHD pneumatics as their quality is great and prices competitive
[11:55:15] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Gotcha. They are close enough that I could drive over if needed.
[11:55:20] <JT-Shop> archivist: yea, that would be a two setup part on a lathe from hex stock
[11:56:07] <archivist> JT-Shop, bottom would not need eccentric bushes, just the top
[11:57:47] <JT-Shop> really only need one per block I think
[11:57:50] <jdhNC> http://www.qbcbearings.com/BuyRFQ/LinearB_Guide_B_VG_EC.htm
[11:58:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: In production line machinery; are the guides, rails, wheels, etc all custom made to order usually (like corkscrew for wine bottles as example), or can you buy them in modules/components to sorta "erector set" a complete system?
[11:58:51] <archivist> JT-Shop, need two so you can set it parallel to other end of the block and to get the plate right angle to frame
[12:00:42] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: most of the time those are off the shelf parts... see mcmaster carr
[12:01:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Even the giant delrin winebottle corkscrew thingy?
[12:01:45] <JT-Shop> what thingy is that?
[12:01:53] <Jymmm> hang on
[12:02:07] <JT-Shop> archivist: be easier to shim the shafts as needed I think
[12:02:35] <JT-Shop> pretty dang small bearings those R3's are with only a 3/16" hole
[12:02:43] <archivist> JT-Shop, cannot shim shafts as the end sheets stop you
[12:03:28] <JT-Shop> hmmm not a good idea then
[12:07:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I can't find a pic, but the top white one in this is close, it seperates the wine bottles for labeling etc http://www.alro.com/dataImages/PlasticsImages/plastics_Delrin1.jpg
[12:07:36] <Jymmm> but like 6" diameter
[12:08:07] <JT-Shop> I'm sure you purchase that ready made from someone
[12:09:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, ok. I was just curious on production machines. I've been watching a LOT of videos of some and it would just seen they are all custom configured, but it would be a hell of a lot of work to fabricate each individual piece.
[12:11:01] <Jymmm> I have no clue on how easy it is to fab SS sheet, but I figure it can't be easy at all.
[12:11:24] <Jymmm> hell , just the deburing alone seems daunting.
[12:11:37] <jdhNC> hire a machinist
[12:11:53] <Jymmm> jdhNC: production line items
[12:12:12] <Jymmm> jdhNC: liek the rails, guides, etc
[12:12:26] <Jymmm> in food handle lines.
[12:12:37] <Jymmm> handling
[12:14:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, this is what I was talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-oFs9SYDM
[12:15:54] <Jymmm> Hmmmm tapered corkscrew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUvI1KQF9M0&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[12:18:01] <JT-Shop> the machine builder usually will build stuff like that
[12:18:22] * JT-Shop wanders off to make a 1/2 of a sandwich
[12:18:35] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Damn, that's rough.
[12:27:29] <IchGuckLive> eh folks is ther in the HAl or inside the mashine folder somthing that tells the OS wher to grab the HAL from
[12:27:46] <IchGuckLive> Problem i changed from EMC to Linuxcnc
[12:28:08] <JT-Shop> do you mean when you run from a RIP or installed?
[12:28:11] <IchGuckLive> damm now it graps files from "/usr" out of soomewhere EMC or linuxcnc
[12:28:26] <JT-Shop> are you trying to run a RIP?
[12:28:32] <IchGuckLive> i pulled the ppa master-rt lucid 32
[12:28:48] <IchGuckLive> there is a RIP also
[12:29:05] <IchGuckLive> and the system setup das been by LIveCD
[12:29:39] <IchGuckLive> i discoverd the Rtpi.conf war using linuxcnc
[12:30:17] <IchGuckLive> but as i stardet up from the main menue the Axis Foam is correct
[12:30:29] <JT-Shop> are you trying to run a Run In Place IE something you downloaded from git?
[12:30:49] <IchGuckLive> if i put the mashine files into the linuxcnc config folder it is not showing me the correct output
[12:31:08] <IchGuckLive> no i will move to master-rt
[12:31:20] <IchGuckLive> as now all the patches are in there
[12:31:24] <JT-Shop> O
[12:31:38] <IchGuckLive> also the Pncconf 5i25+7i77 is in there
[12:31:40] <JT-Shop> I'm really confused as to your question now
[12:32:03] <IchGuckLive> as here 2
[12:32:15] <JT-Shop> ok were on the same page then
[12:32:29] <JT-Shop> did you download a deb and install that?
[12:32:39] <IchGuckLive> if i go for the axis-foam in the sim all is correct in
[12:32:53] <IchGuckLive> no i got the buildbot ppa
[12:32:57] <IchGuckLive> no deb
[12:33:14] <IchGuckLive> synaptic pulled that and removed emc2.4
[12:33:18] <JT-Shop> so you have the files located somewhere in your home directory?
[12:33:33] <IchGuckLive> but the files are still all in "/usr/share"
[12:34:02] <JT-Shop> sure
[12:34:04] <IchGuckLive> what files config and nc_files are under linuxcnc folder now
[12:34:19] <IchGuckLive> can i delete all this emc stuff there
[12:35:13] <JT-Shop> best to uninstall 2.4 if you have 2.5 or master installed with the synaptic package manager
[12:35:49] <IchGuckLive> it has been unistalled by master-rt
[12:35:59] <IchGuckLive> but not revoved the files
[12:36:17] <IchGuckLive> so i guess the path wil find emc in usr first then linuxcnc
[12:36:32] <IchGuckLive> BUT why then axis-foam is showing correctly
[12:36:49] <IchGuckLive> and the real mashine config in the same folder doesend
[12:37:08] <IchGuckLive> is there a link inside the Hal or costomhal
[12:37:10] <JT-Shop> my guess is it only replace some files and not deleted 2.4
[12:37:20] <IchGuckLive> inside the ini the path has bean set to linuxcnc
[12:37:31] <JT-Shop> just depends on how you set the environment
[12:37:39] <IchGuckLive> 2.4 is emc 2.6 is linuxcnc
[12:37:58] <IchGuckLive> is the envirerment to be set inside ini ?
[12:38:15] <IchGuckLive> or hal
[12:38:23] <JT-Shop> nope, if you type linuxcnc from a prompt you get what ever is installed
[12:38:53] <IchGuckLive> this is what confuses me
[12:38:59] <roycroft> hey folks
[12:39:00] <JT-Shop> if you have a RIP and type in . ./scripts/ripenvironment you get the version that is there
[12:39:10] <roycroft> i'm wanting to experiment with heekscad/heekscnc
[12:39:34] <roycroft> i attempted installing it a while back in a linuxcnc/ubuntu 10.04 environment, but there were significant depenency issues
[12:39:44] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: tommorow new relese im sitting on it
[12:39:51] <roycroft> while i have 35 years of unix/bsd experience, i've virtually no linux experience
[12:40:19] <roycroft> i wonder if there's a fairly easy path to installing it - i attempted what was documented for installing on 10.04 but still had issues
[12:40:35] <JT-Shop> IchGuckLive: how exactly did you install 2.6?
[12:40:40] <roycroft> it's been a while, and i did not document the problems - i just deleted that vm, but it's time to give it another go
[12:40:51] <roycroft> i will likely wait until next week, ichgucklive
[12:40:53] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: the case is if i go for prompt linuxcnc -> sim axis-foam correct
[12:40:54] <roycroft> thanks for the heads-up though
[12:41:03] * roycroft has a busy weekend ahead of him
[12:41:30] <IchGuckLive> if i go prompt linuxcnc-> my mahine doesent show correct same file
[12:41:42] <JT-Shop> IchGuckLive: from the Applications > CNC > Linuxcnc > sim > axis-foam
[12:42:04] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ This warks also correct
[12:42:05] <JT-Shop> ?
[12:42:37] <IchGuckLive> so i thought there is somthing inside the ini or a other file that directs towards emc
[12:43:01] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: works correct that way 2
[12:43:13] <JT-Shop> nope, it just depends on how your environment is set
[12:43:32] <IchGuckLive> where is the envirerment set
[12:43:58] <IchGuckLive> in the real install from synaptic via "deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid master-rt
[12:44:03] <JT-Shop> if you have a RIP you can set the environment as I said before
[12:44:22] <JT-Shop> otherwise you get the installed version
[12:44:41] <IchGuckLive> i know that this si started by a script but not used since days its just on the system for more devels stuff
[12:45:24] <IchGuckLive> i will now search the "/usr" for emc files and kill them
[12:45:37] <JT-Shop> ok, have fun
[12:45:41] <IchGuckLive> maybe folders also in share
[12:46:02] <IchGuckLive> if i go with synaptic it will kill also the pythons or
[12:46:12] <JT-Shop> I'd just go see if the synaptic packager manager still says it is there and uninstall it
[12:46:23] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: ? synaptic komplete remove better ?
[12:46:38] <IchGuckLive> no its not there
[12:46:39] <JT-Shop> and make sure you remove emc from software sorces
[12:46:53] <JT-Shop> sources in synaptic
[12:47:05] <pcw_home> Kill the Pythons???
[12:47:06] <IchGuckLive> its in the 3dr pary removed from packets
[12:47:46] <IchGuckLive> its a hell of a miss with that
[12:48:18] <IchGuckLive> sim runs perfect and the mashine does not show as expected
[12:48:31] <IchGuckLive> i will get it
[12:48:39] * JT-Shop gets the torch out to melt some pythons
[12:48:49] <IchGuckLive> i guess there is also some so files around
[12:49:28] <IchGuckLive> "so" as i did a make to see the linuxcnc.so compiling
[12:49:56] <IchGuckLive> there is a emc.so or emcmodule.so
[12:50:11] <IchGuckLive> i will keep on this
[12:50:23] <roycroft> so is it heekscad or heekscnc that will have a new release tomorrow?
[12:50:46] <IchGuckLive> both
[12:50:51] <roycroft> ok, cool
[12:50:59] <syyl> maybe it will be usable then...
[12:51:08] <IchGuckLive> soon as the compiling on a fresh 10.04 runs
[12:51:10] * roycroft pushes the whole project onto the back burner for a few days
[12:51:39] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: Dan has to mill 15.000 parts
[12:51:45] <IchGuckLive> so less time
[12:52:05] <roycroft> i'm very patient
[12:52:13] <roycroft> and i have plenty of other projects to work on
[12:52:39] <IchGuckLive> librecad 2.0.1 is also outv
[12:53:01] <roycroft> hopefully there will be updated installation documentation when the new release comes out
[12:53:07] <IchGuckLive> now better then the Q-cad that is selled for 600USD
[12:53:24] <roycroft> i found qcad tolerable
[12:53:30] <roycroft> but i wasn't overly impressed with it
[12:53:43] <IchGuckLive> Autocad users are
[12:53:45] <roycroft> most of my cad experience is with autocad, although i've been toying with solidworks of late
[12:54:04] <IchGuckLive> im working with PROE
[12:54:05] <roycroft> autocad is not the best fit for 3d modelling
[12:54:22] <IchGuckLive> solid is still NURBS
[12:54:37] <roycroft> inventor is the autodesk product that does that well, but i have found, so far, that solidworks is a lot more intuitive than inventor, for me, at least
[12:54:42] <IchGuckLive> real 3D not many on the marked
[12:55:15] <IchGuckLive> solid has a nice DXF to 3D aplication
[12:55:38] <IchGuckLive> but in the Universyty al are loosing in the game to be direct or via tool construction
[12:55:59] <roycroft> my primary interest right now is in a decent cam application
[12:56:39] <IchGuckLive> Mastercam or Hypermill
[12:56:47] <roycroft> i've never used heekscam, so i don't know how that would work out
[12:56:56] <roycroft> yes, those might be options
[12:57:04] <IchGuckLive> universyty install for 60USD gives you 2years of max performance
[12:57:07] <roycroft> i'm looking at freely-available stuff rigth at the moment
[12:57:12] <syyl> it will work out like a pain in the butt ;)
[12:57:20] <syyl> its not realy usable
[12:57:27] <roycroft> how do you know?
[12:57:31] <roycroft> a new release is coming out tomorrow :)
[12:57:44] <syyl> ok, that was for the last release ;)
[12:57:50] <syyl> but i have no high hopes
[12:57:56] * roycroft will be hand-coding gcode for a while anyway
[12:58:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Do you have any idea on how they are actually cutting the tubing??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw1L1L-_ypo
[12:58:01] <syyl> instead i would go for cambam
[12:58:07] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: dont expect to mutch only the glue cams are overritten
[12:58:12] <syyl> its pretty capable
[12:58:42] <syyl> magic, Jymmm
[12:58:55] <syyl> not a answer you were expecting, ha? ;)
[12:59:01] <roycroft> cambam only runs on windows
[12:59:06] <IchGuckLive> Jymm by roto knive
[12:59:06] <Jymmm> syyl: I gave up voodoo for lent =)
[12:59:12] <syyl> ;)
[12:59:13] <roycroft> not a disqualifier, but certainly a negative
[12:59:24] <syyl> its runs on linux
[12:59:24] <IchGuckLive> jym like lense blend
[12:59:29] <roycroft> oh?
[12:59:36] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: like a tablesaw blade?
[12:59:39] <roycroft> i was just looking at the website and it talks about requiring windows with .net
[12:59:47] <IchGuckLive> no
[13:00:07] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: I dont see the tube being deformed either
[13:00:13] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: http://blog.ankimo.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fotolia_11886163_s.jpg
[13:00:16] <syyl> i think its like a tube cutter
[13:00:21] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what is your purpose for making the CNC drawings?
[13:00:26] <syyl> rotating around the pipe
[13:00:34] <IchGuckLive> about 24knives in the 360Deg
[13:00:34] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: oh no way! I hope not.
[13:00:34] <Tom_itx> are you gonna make plans, make a kit...
[13:00:51] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: ?
[13:01:04] <Tom_itx> your solidworks models you posted
[13:01:14] <Tom_itx> of the slide mechanism
[13:01:18] <IchGuckLive> its just hidding the tube and the X-force gets it off
[13:01:26] <JT-Shop> oh, dunno... if I make drawings they will be on my web site
[13:01:31] <roycroft> mastercam is definitely out of my current price range
[13:01:38] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: there is also airflow inside the given tilt
[13:01:58] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: Student version 75USD
[13:02:07] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: I was sorta thinking like a food processor blade
[13:02:23] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, one concern i have (i know it's widely used) is that there is little contact surface between the outter bearing race and the round bar it rides on.
[13:02:33] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: mainly Loetmichel's design got my interest
[13:02:41] <JT-Shop> yep
[13:02:42] <Tom_itx> yeah i've seen that design
[13:03:13] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: the small contact isnt a problem
[13:03:18] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: i make(made) molds for wirerchannel and we cut it the same way at 40m/min
[13:03:21] <JT-Shop> there you go
[13:03:27] <roycroft> yes, but i'm no longer a student
[13:03:33] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: This is all perfect timing at about 1:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MFD4RQ1aek&feature=related
[13:03:39] <roycroft> my use will eventually be commercial anyway
[13:03:50] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: but you know one
[13:03:57] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: using the camera blade thing?
[13:04:09] <Loetmichel> the "kneading" of the bearing rings IS
[13:04:11] <roycroft> kids are too old to be students, grandkids too young
[13:04:20] * JT-Shop is off to town to get some burning glasses...
[13:04:32] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: did you see the photo?
[13:04:41] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: for Burning Man?
[13:04:42] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: extrusion
[13:04:59] <Loetmichel> lifetime of the 604 bearings on may machine is supposed to be about 50h
[13:05:16] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: which one?
[13:05:18] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: we got 125Mashines of them in the factory
[13:05:18] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/216515
[13:05:36] <Tom_itx> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/projects/cnc2/p1020742.jpg
[13:05:39] <Tom_itx> a classic example
[13:05:50] <Loetmichel> jeah, looks like my desing
[13:05:50] <Tom_itx> but he springloaded one side
[13:05:53] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: max channel wide is 300x100mm extruding at 4,5m/min
[13:06:06] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: I tried using a 45mm rotary cutting blade (usually used in sewing/quiliting) chucked in the drillpress. Once it bit into the material it cut fine. But gettign it to bite was the hard part.
[13:06:07] <JT-Shop> I guess so he is using EMC for rails
[13:06:19] <Tom_itx> conduit?
[13:06:20] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:06:22] <Tom_itx> :(
[13:06:23] <JT-Shop> yea
[13:06:38] <Tom_itx> but it's actually better than what he had
[13:06:41] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: in my desing the springs are the bolkts that fix the bearings ;-)
[13:06:58] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: yea, I like your design
[13:07:17] <Tom_itx> me too, the springs were just a thought
[13:07:20] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: got you the livetime is the problem therfore we use Air and lots of bledes inside the system
[13:07:35] <JT-Shop> bbl
[13:07:54] <Loetmichel> if i had to go over it i would make some rings for the bearings
[13:07:55] <Tom_itx> obviously the conduit isn't real accurate and parallel
[13:08:18] <Loetmichel> because the outer rings of the bearings are not supposted to have a point of contact
[13:08:20] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: Google "hager kabelkanal" pictures
[13:08:24] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: This doens't have to be "fast", just hands off mostly.
[13:08:50] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel, yes.. they contact at the weakest point of the bearing race
[13:09:17] <IchGuckLive> at moving 50m/min with 4lanes parallel it has on my side
[13:09:32] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: only got 500mm of mashine cutting space
[13:10:10] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm:900m/sec so no time at all
[13:10:34] <Loetmichel> what is it called in english when you bend metal back and forth?
[13:10:44] <Loetmichel> so it will weaken?
[13:10:53] <Loetmichel> in german its "walken"
[13:11:22] <pcw_home> fatigue
[13:11:44] <Loetmichel> no, i meant the process of deforming the matal, not the result ;-)
[13:11:45] <Jymmm> pcw_home: How did ya like the traffic yesterday? =)
[13:11:51] <IchGuckLive> cold roll Hardening
[13:11:55] <_abc_> 900m/sec is about 3 times the speed of sound. Are you using an AK47 for machining with bullets?
[13:12:14] <IchGuckLive> 900mm/sec
[13:12:15] <_abc_> Loetmichel: metal fatigue is the name
[13:12:38] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: Sorry B)
[13:12:38] <pcw_home> Jymmm: Looked like quite a mess (didn't affect me though)
[13:12:39] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: what are you cutting at 1m/sec?!
[13:12:49] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ah, cool =)
[13:12:53] <IchGuckLive> PC tubing
[13:13:16] <_abc_> weird
[13:13:19] <pcw_home> I go to work by crossing the freeway, not getting on it
[13:13:57] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Well, they say that was the worse traffic in the Bay Area in 20 years. so crossing the street could be challenging =)
[13:14:05] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: http://www.conrad.de/medias/global/ce/6000_6999/6100/6120/6125/612590_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
[13:14:29] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: okay, so you cut that, how?
[13:14:35] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: so get yourself together, look left and right and RUN like hell ;-)
[13:14:45] <Jymmm> Heh, BIG ASS plastic pipe cutter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UMjZM3_-ZM
[13:14:46] <_abc_> IchGuckLive: cut to length, miter, etc?
[13:15:20] <_abc_> Jymmm: Is the traffic problem new or is it annual/monthly etc?
[13:15:24] <syyl> hey Jymmm
[13:15:31] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: extrusion at 42m/min in 4 lanes to the mashie and cut in length 2000-2005
[13:15:37] <syyl> one guy at work built such a pipecutter by his own
[13:15:40] <Jymmm> _abc_: Arson shut down the transbay tube
[13:15:48] <syyl> as a commercial one was to expensive
[13:16:02] <_abc_> arson?!
[13:16:09] <_abc_> Sick people.
[13:16:15] <syyl> it had also functionality of welding pipes with a heating-mirror
[13:17:29] <IchGuckLive> _abc_: im now on this channel cutting to the sides at 12m/min way the hell of the tool eaterhttp://www.conrad.de/medias/global/ce/6000_6999/6100/6120/6126/612649_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
[13:17:51] <Jymmm> _abc_: Well, I think it's kinda funny. It only shows how planning (or lack there of) of one passage way can effect a 500+ sq mile area
[13:21:10] <_abc_> Jymmm: not funny. You realize how much wind this puts into the DHS control freak's sails?
[13:22:09] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: imagine this pipecutter at -50Deg in sibiria O.O
[13:25:22] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Gro_m4efgvE&feature=endscreen at 1:30 you see the Blades to cut
[13:27:42] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: catting at $:0
[13:28:39] <IchGuckLive> ok im off BY
[13:59:42] <anonimasu> Jymmm: Whatever you buld is easy with the proper tools.. stainless or tool steel all the same
[14:02:01] <jd896> Evening all
[14:16:11] <Jymmm> _abc_: DHS knew about this LONG ago, not really much fuel there other than quarantin/martial law/curfew/police state, etc
[14:16:33] <Jymmm> _abc_: which has already been done at least once before in 1989
[14:20:36] <Jymmm> anonimasu: what was your comment in reference to?
[14:38:57] <jd896> Is John t around ?
[14:42:42] <jdhNC> I'm a John D, but probably no use :)
[14:52:08] <JT-Shop> jd896: I'm back
[14:53:03] <uw> hi!
[14:54:24] <uw> hello i have a dxf that was made in AutoCad. However when I try to load it into PyCAM, some of the features in the .dxf are not supported.
[14:54:37] <uw> like arctext and the fonts that are used
[14:55:08] <uw> is there a way to export this .dxf into a format that can be understood by PyCAM
[14:55:13] <cradek> seems like you will have to either improve pycam or avoid using those features
[14:55:36] <cradek> you could try exploding things and re-exporting (NB I have never used pycam)
[14:56:48] <uw> thanks for your help. I guess this is more of an autocad question for how to explode this font so it isnt a font/arctext anymore. Ill try that
[14:57:12] <uw> also, if you haven't used pycam, what program would you recommend for generating gcode?
[14:57:20] <jd896> I get that with autocad what year is it hi John
[14:57:40] <JT-Shop> jd896: I have the sheet align done!
[14:57:48] <JT-Shop> and used it yesterday
[14:57:49] <uw> it is autocad 2006 with express tools
[14:58:01] <uw> but 2008 does the same thing
[14:58:25] <jd896> Yeah I did keep poping in here but missed you found it on the forum
[14:58:58] <jd896> Ah try saving as yeah 2000 or 2004 lt those seam better cross compatible
[14:59:16] <uw> oh thats a thought too ill give that a try
[14:59:24] <jd896> You pleases with the results John
[14:59:47] <JT-Shop> ok, cool... the only thing I want to do now is to add a number readout of the rotation so I'm reminded that one is in effect
[15:00:39] <JT-Shop> jd896: yes, I'm happy with how it works and used it on some 1/4" x 8" HR flat that I had to cut from side to side a bunch of parts
[15:01:41] <JT-Shop> so I put a small square on a flat part of my Z axis and pushed it to the edge to get a better visual
[15:01:55] <jd896> Yeah good point ha funny I cut some today out of 180 x 10 flat over about 3meters could have been handy for that
[15:02:29] <jd896> I have thought about this a laser pointer would be of use here
[15:02:40] <JT-Shop> even with careful use of a tape measure the stock was not parallel to the X axis
[15:02:53] <JT-Shop> yep, that would be good to use
[15:03:38] <JT-Shop> need some kind of cover to protect it from plasma dust...
[15:04:19] <jd896> Alot of farley and esprit machines have them yes good point maybe housing it in a closed box section with small hole in
[15:04:35] <JT-Shop> yea, that would work
[15:05:36] <jd896> Or even better when the z is retracted the cover on the laser is open when the z is not at the top the cover over the laser section is closed simple linkage
[15:06:17] <uw> jd896, going back to R12 seemed to work better, fonts still not supported. Ill keep looking
[15:06:23] <JT-Shop> yea, a spring loaded cover with a lever so open when Z is up
[15:06:43] <jd896> Can the fonts be converted to poly lines ?
[15:07:03] <jd896> Yeah that sounds the ticket John
[15:07:42] <JT-Shop> I don't use mine enough to put a laser on it, so I'll just use the square when I need it
[15:08:03] * JT-Shop gets the fire torch out to melt some metal that is in my way
[15:08:32] * Jymmm prefers the angle grinder (but likes the smell of it too)
[15:08:41] <jd896> I still need to make a new z axis
[15:09:19] <archivist> JT-Shop, we call them a gas axe
[15:09:59] <jd896> Or burning tackle
[15:10:36] <Tom_itx> will linuxcnc display a counter to show how many times a file has been run? ie count your production
[15:10:52] <jd896> Like a batch count
[15:10:58] <Tom_itx> uh huh
[15:11:26] <jd896> I have a turret press that has a counter that counts the m30 commands that end the program
[15:12:00] <Tom_itx> bak in a few, making a hazardous waste run
[15:12:08] <jd896> Could be done in the same way I imagine not sure how tho
[15:12:11] * Tom_itx grabs the grocery sack of uranium
[15:13:48] <uw> jd896, getting there. The stright fonts can be exploded using TXTEXP. however it doesnt work on the arctxt
[15:14:50] <jd896> Uw let me get my laptop I'll have a look see how I can change the arc text
[15:15:32] <uw> standard explode doenst work btw. well it does, however explodes the text without the font, so it doesnt look the same.
[15:15:55] <uw> thanks sir if you are in the middle of something dont worry about it.
[15:16:08] <uw> im just posting incase you come across it in the future
[15:18:01] <mrsun> http://imagebin.org/216549 small casting made today got the job at 19:00 (no pattern or anything) and now its 22:06 .. done :P) tho quality could be a bit better ... :P
[15:20:58] <JT-Shop> yes
[15:21:49] <JT-Shop> the time component shows elapsed time
[15:22:34] <alex_joni> mrsun: cool
[15:22:47] <mrsun> extended pedal for an excevator =)
[15:23:13] <mrsun> fast jobs usaly ends up sloppy jobs :/
[15:23:29] <mrsun> the casting sand was totaly dried out .. so havent gotten the right moisture in it either :/
[15:23:33] <mrsun> so some sand broke lose
[15:24:20] <mrsun> and the "grove" thingies or whatever i should call it i put in the mold after i made it :P as i didnt have time to glue those on the pattern :P
[15:24:45] <uw> do you have pictures of your melting apratus?
[15:24:59] <mrsun> nah :/
[15:25:01] <mrsun> its a bucket
[15:25:04] <mrsun> with a burner :P
[15:25:16] <mrsun> and a steel crucible made from an old fire extinguisher :P
[15:25:31] <mrsun> and its broken ... so need to make a new one =)
[15:25:35] <Tom_itx> ok all the old paint delivered
[15:25:37] <mrsun> lining is starting to fall apart :P
[15:26:18] <mrsun> had a big furnace going but then my life got complicated and havent had the time to finnish it .. and now that lining is ruined also :P
[15:27:51] <uw> might be cool to share pictures of how you melted it
[15:28:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, is your design for a gantry to move back and forth?
[15:28:23] <Tom_itx> http://imagebin.org/216515
[15:28:25] <Tom_itx> that one
[15:31:34] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, also i wonder if you may want to dowel pin those parts together as well?
[15:31:39] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: it's not my design it is Loetmichel's design and yes for a gantry
[15:31:53] <JT-Shop> they are all doweled
[15:31:58] <Tom_itx> ok
[15:32:02] <Tom_itx> i couldn't tell for sure
[15:32:30] <mrsun> uw, im not a picture guy ... my friends always like "document it!" ... im like whatever :P
[15:32:34] <JT-Shop> you can't see them as I didn't through drill the ends
[15:32:49] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: looks live this way: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8872
[15:32:49] <Tom_itx> it might be nice and rigid if the side plates were all one piece with the uprights made from .750 -" plate
[15:32:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8875
[15:32:56] <JT-Shop> well that painful task is done
[15:33:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[15:33:55] <Tom_itx> i looked at most of those yesterday i think
[15:34:02] <Tom_itx> (recently)
[15:34:06] <Loetmichel> hihi
[15:34:10] <Loetmichel> no problem
[15:34:30] <Tom_itx> what do you cut with it?
[15:34:30] <uw> mrsun, I was like that once. However I realized much of my knowledge and other ideas were spinoffs of people who did "document it". Their documentation has saved me countless hours of trial and error, which led to better quality parts as I wasn't reinventing the wheel of mistakes ;0
[15:34:34] <Loetmichel> btw: the gantry will look like this one only downsized:
[15:34:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[15:34:51] <mrsun> uw, yeah ... i guess =)
[15:35:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11175
[15:35:17] <Tom_itx> what do you plan to cut with it?
[15:35:30] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: me?
[15:35:36] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:36:00] <Loetmichel> all up to aluminium/brass
[15:37:03] <Loetmichel> so plywpood, carbonb fibre, glass fibre, aluminium, brass, beechwood, plastics, you name it
[15:37:12] <Loetmichel> maybe even mild steel
[15:37:22] <Loetmichel> mostly sheet material though
[15:37:38] <JT-Shop> where do you find the wood like material?
[15:37:50] <JT-Shop> all I see over here is MDF or Melamine
[15:38:12] <Tom_itx> it's probably not cheap since it's ply
[15:38:35] <archivist> its the waterproof stuff trailer floors have
[15:38:38] <Tom_itx> i can get ~1 1/4" 20-25 ply beech
[15:38:43] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: you can buy it in germany in every hardware store
[15:38:52] <Tom_itx> but it's $$$
[15:39:05] <Tom_itx> 4% dry
[15:39:07] <Loetmichel> its the material bottoms of truck beds are lined with (for example)
[15:39:32] <Loetmichel> water resistant, sturdy as hell, relatively cheap, vibration dampening
[15:39:54] <JT-Shop> what do they call it?
[15:40:05] <Loetmichel> in germany its called "siebdruckplatte"
[15:40:14] * Tom_itx sees JT-Shop's cogs turning
[15:40:32] <Loetmichel> would translate to "sieve pressed sheet"
[15:40:35] <Loetmichel> roughly
[15:40:43] <syyl> http://www.dict.cc/?s=siebdruckplatte
[15:40:57] <syyl> maybe thats the correct translation
[15:41:00] <archivist> http://www.winwood-products.com/eng/timber-products/mesh-plywood.htm
[15:41:01] <JT-Shop> torch too small for 25mm plate http://imagebin.org/216553
[15:41:04] <syyl> but i never heard that term
[15:41:04] <Loetmichel> 'cause one side is flat and glossy, the other is pressed wih a fine mesh
[15:41:33] <JT-Shop> interesting stuff
[15:41:39] <syyl> hu, what happened there, JT-Shop
[15:41:40] <syyl> Oo
[15:42:09] <UnderSampled> how does one make a gcode for going along a Bezier path (not NURBS. the kind with tangents)
[15:42:34] <JT-Shop> it was a construction site frame that someone added a normal trailer hitch to but it was too long and ugly, now it is short and ugly
[15:43:16] <syyl> ah
[15:43:23] <JT-Shop> buggers welded it from the inside while it was upside down, only way to get it off was to cut a notch and so remove the inside welds
[15:43:33] <UnderSampled> so like, give three points, the first one being the tangent control point from the current location, the second being the tangent control point for the destination, and the final being the destination?
[15:43:33] <syyl> a "make it work" approach ;)
[15:43:43] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:44:01] <syyl> now you got all that slag on the floor
[15:44:07] <syyl> time to clean up ;)
[15:44:08] <JT-Shop> when I'm done it will look like the factory wanted it to be that way
[15:44:22] <JT-Shop> yea it must cool first or it might melt my broom
[15:44:26] <UnderSampled> what is the difference between nurbs and beziers?
[15:44:31] <syyl> after a paintjob almost everything looks like factory made
[15:44:32] <syyl> :D
[15:44:59] <Loetmichel> syyl: only if you use the angle grinder first ;-)
[15:45:11] <syyl> nope
[15:45:17] <Loetmichel> prioor to painting i meant
[15:45:22] <syyl> with a good weld, it looks ok
[15:45:26] <syyl> even without grinding
[15:45:27] <Loetmichel> to hide the sputtered weldings ;-)
[15:45:49] <JT-Shop> what sputtering?
[15:45:57] <syyl> crappy welds ;)
[15:46:11] <JT-Shop> we don't make them any more
[15:46:39] <syyl> imagine a stick weld done with a 30 bucks welder from a guy who doesnt know a thing about welding ;)
[15:47:03] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurbs
[15:47:05] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9zier_surface
[15:47:30] <JT-Shop> have you seen the one where the guy made a welder from a scrap transformer and was welding with no protection at all
[15:47:38] <syyl> yeah :D
[15:47:53] <Tom_itx> in a puddle of saltwater?
[15:48:00] <Loetmichel> syyl: a weld like this done with that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12958 http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9184
[15:48:32] <syyl> you can make almost every weld look good with a anglegrinder :P
[15:49:30] <Loetmichel> i tend to hide my welds under copper tape, tough: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12964&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:49:49] <syyl> i am attending the clean weld approach ;)
[15:49:50] <Loetmichel> on the door, the frame holding the copper feathers
[15:49:58] <syyl> didnt master it yet, but get used to it..
[15:50:18] <syyl> time for a day at the welding school
[15:50:21] <Loetmichel> syyl: that weld was done after about 2 years of not looking at the welder ;-)
[15:50:34] <Loetmichel> and in a hurry ;-)
[15:50:55] <Loetmichel> (on a sunday in the company)
[15:51:31] <Loetmichel> the cabinet had to be monday morning in the delivery truck
[15:51:54] <Loetmichel> and the door frame has proved itseld slightly to big
[15:51:58] <Loetmichel> itself
[15:52:19] <Loetmichel> so i drove home, got my welding gear out of the corner and got to work ;-)
[15:52:52] <Loetmichel> because the company isnt equipped for this kind of job, we make computers normally ;-)
[15:53:17] <archivist> UnderSampled, Im wondering if apt360 would work for you, steep learning curve though
[15:53:26] <UnderSampled> what's that?
[15:53:37] <archivist> a cam program
[15:54:07] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/apt/aptos/apt360/doc/manual/lconic_kw.html#lconic_by_3pt2sl
[15:54:55] <UnderSampled> archivist doesn't gcode have nurbs?
[15:55:36] <archivist> yes http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NURBS
[15:56:34] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It occurs to me that the laser pointer can be a long way from the cutter head, and the measurements still work/
[15:58:37] <jd896_laptop> uw i cannot convert the text ether without as you said it loosing its formatting however i hav found a program that will generat the test in polylines into a dxf that can be opened /copyed and pasted into autocad
[15:59:02] <archivist> UnderSampled, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g5_1_quadratic_b_spline_a_id_sec_g5_1_b_spline_a
[15:59:56] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I think I worked out a part counter a while ago.
[16:00:57] <uw> jd896_laptop, ok i think just figured it out as you entered
[16:01:27] <andypugh> Tom_itx: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=24&id=11492#11493
[16:01:40] <jd896_laptop> do tell maybe of use to those that have text needs
[16:01:46] <uw> so first the current textstyle has to be set to the same as the text on the arc text
[16:02:11] <uw> jd896_laptop, can be done by explode command
[16:02:24] <uw> once it is exploded, it should now still have the same font
[16:02:34] <jd896_laptop> yes as you said buy changeing the text style
[16:02:50] <uw> yup
[16:03:00] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/IMAG2511.jpg
[16:03:00] <uw> then use i used the TXTEXP
[16:03:04] <jd896_laptop> thats why it looses its formating as it changes to the active style
[16:03:12] <anonimasu> start of a taperlock coupling for the ballscrew
[16:03:41] <uw> jd896_laptop, not sure what you mean?
[16:03:53] <anonimasu> didnt have time to make tapered threads and stuff though..
[16:04:07] <andypugh> anonimasu: Differential screw?
[16:04:50] <jd896_laptop> when it wasnt working as it gets converted it looses its font because it changes to the annotation text style
[16:05:28] <Tom_itx> thanks andy
[16:05:47] <UnderSampled> does g5.2...g5.3 work?
[16:06:07] <andypugh> UnderSampled: I believe so
[16:06:10] <anonimasu> andypugh: huh?
[16:06:11] <jd896_laptop> i get it now just managed it
[16:06:24] <anonimasu> andypugh: im going to machine the ballscrew flat and stick it into the big end
[16:06:32] <andypugh> anonimasu: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fOViOE1sue9y5d2MWi_w-9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:06:32] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g5_2_g5_3_nurbs_block_a_id_sec_g5_2_g5_3_nurbs_a
[16:06:49] <anonimasu> nah
[16:07:08] <uw> jd896_laptop, i was reading of those problems too, but havent seen it.
[16:07:08] <anonimasu> that i'll taper thread, stick a nut onto it, until it starts to clamp, then machine it flat to my dia i want to clamp on
[16:07:37] <anonimasu> so im sure that the screw will be clamping all around when im done
[16:08:00] <anonimasu> and paralell.
[16:08:04] <andypugh> That double-threaded screw gets screwed all the way in. Then the extension is screwed on, then the screw is _unscrewed_ using a long hex-key down a bore in the middle. Because the large diameter is a bigger pitch than the small one, that pulls the tapers together really hard. To give:
[16:08:12] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XKsl4J8YIO6HccM04_sr8NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:08:39] <anonimasu> same principle, but im extending the shaft of my screw so i can get whatever dia i want in the end to match another taperlock bushing
[16:08:42] <anonimasu> for the drive gears
[16:09:28] <anonimasu> my screws are smaller then my end bearings as im using a premade bearing mount off the mill
[16:09:47] <andypugh> I had a real assembly problem, I needed to put the screw and nut in together, then attach the nut to the table. Which meant that the screw could only be rather short, and that I couldn't have access to the side of it.
[16:11:03] <andypugh> I stole the idea off of Wohlhaupter
[16:11:25] <anonimasu> did you slit the ballscrew?
[16:11:44] <syyl> differential screw \o/
[16:11:48] <andypugh> I don't know what you are asking
[16:12:05] <syyl> its like a mighty fine pitched screw
[16:12:10] <anonimasu> the tapered part
[16:12:36] <andypugh> anonimasu: No, it's a solid taper. The extension has a matching taper.
[16:12:47] <anonimasu> oh, neat!
[16:12:56] <anonimasu> how did you cut the splines?
[16:13:12] <andypugh> Which splines?
[16:13:25] <anonimasu> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5611905035055922322?banner=pwa
[16:13:54] <andypugh> Ah, those. With an end mill.
[16:14:05] * JT-Shop takes a break before final fit up http://imagebin.org/216557
[16:14:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:14:35] <JT-Shop> goodnight Gracie
[16:14:38] <andypugh> They are actually 90 degree serrations. It's an automotive standard serrated shaft. I got the spec from machiniries handbook.
[16:15:09] <anonimasu> I need a 4th axis.
[16:15:10] <anonimasu> -_-
[16:15:37] <andypugh> So, all you need to do to make that sort of spline is to move the end-mill across and down a bit.
[16:16:30] <anonimasu> maybe I should make that kind of differential taper too.
[16:16:36] <archivist> I did some milled knurling that way
[16:16:40] <anonimasu> I have a conical broach somewhere..
[16:17:04] <andypugh> In fact, this rather ridiculous looking setup is me cutting those serrations: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aD3U7TVt-SvekGIitO20B9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:18:01] <JT-Shop> looks fine to me
[16:18:17] <andypugh> anonimasu: Tapers are very easy with a CNC lathe, and they even come out the correct angle!
[16:18:39] <anonimasu> yeah but for the internal one a 12mm tapered hole is kindof hard to cut if you want it 100mm long..
[16:19:03] <anonimasu> the screw is on the cnc lathe anyway for cutting it straight
[16:20:41] <syyl> i had a spontanious laugh at the setup
[16:20:42] <syyl> :D
[16:20:56] <jd896_laptop> i had a tourch crash erlier today and i just stopped the program but my plasma torch stayed to till i hit the estop is there a better way to start the torch than a subroutine with a digital output swith in it
[16:21:45] <jd896_laptop> can i have it call my endcut routine at a program stop or have all outputs turned off when not in auto mode
[16:22:48] <andypugh> My control PC finally found its way to the machine today. It's been used for dev work for about 18 months. Now it will stay in the garage wired to the machine. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UE3bN_sKz-J_6xtRQep60NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:23:40] <andypugh> The pole lets it swivel to allow me to wire it all up: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hAEUVzQ0XTRgvr8F5PUvQNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:23:54] <andypugh> The box still needs sides ;-)
[16:24:53] <syyl> i like that machine, it looks pretty compact and sturdy
[16:26:46] <andypugh> Yes, it's a nice little machine. And cheaper than a Deckel.
[16:27:05] <jd896_laptop> andy if that pc is now on a machine then that must mean you have a new dev pc
[16:27:19] <syyl> everything is cheaper than a deckel :D
[16:27:23] <andypugh> Yes, I have a DN2800MT
[16:28:02] <jd896_laptop> ah the one with built in psu
[16:28:36] <andypugh> syyl: http://www.lathes.co.uk/harrisonmiller/index.html
[16:30:37] <syyl> do you run it with the original gear train for the main spindle
[16:30:38] <syyl> ?
[16:30:47] <andypugh> So far, yes.
[16:30:58] <andypugh> As much as I run it at all.
[16:31:45] <andypugh> I am considering using a webcam and image recognition software so that the PC can tell which gear is engaged. It would be cheaper and neater than switches on the levers :-)
[16:32:11] <syyl> the camera way would be special ;)
[16:32:30] <jd896_laptop> wow talk about one step avobe
[16:33:01] <jd896_laptop> no optical swithes or prox's here
[16:33:04] <syyl> wait
[16:33:04] <syyl> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5748835739430726082?banner=pwa
[16:33:11] <syyl> is that a boring mill? yours?
[16:33:42] <andypugh> Ah, no, that's my dad's workshop. (It's genetic)
[16:34:07] <andypugh> That's a Kears S-type. Lovely mahine.
[16:34:07] <archivist> I set my horizontal for boring this week http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_06_15_Adcock_Shipley/IMG_1249.JPG
[16:34:41] <syyl> i would love to see that machine running with cnc :D
[16:34:45] <andypugh> Under the sheet is a Churchill Universal grinder (cylindrical, internal, surface and tool/cutter grinder)
[16:35:15] <syyl> swiss army knife of a grinder..
[16:35:19] <syyl> nice shop
[16:35:27] <andypugh> syyl: It would be interesting to CNC, it's got 4 axes
[16:36:03] <andypugh> There is a slide in the chuck. One day I will figure out how it works.
[16:36:15] <syyl> mh
[16:36:21] <syyl> for surfacing
[16:36:25] <syyl> like with a wohlhaupter
[16:36:30] <andypugh> You can adjust it with the chuck spinning. Power feed, even.
[16:36:53] <archivist> taper boring?
[16:37:03] <andypugh> syyl: Yes, but the difference is that the handle is stationary.
[16:37:14] <syyl> ah
[16:37:30] <andypugh> archivist: In theory, but with a flat-belt drive not very accurately,
[16:37:37] <syyl> there must be a lot of gears going trough the spindle
[16:38:27] <syyl> i am everytime suprised how many interesting machines there are in the hand of home shop machinists...
[16:38:52] <UnderSampled> can I edit gcode in axis?
[16:38:54] <andypugh> That lathe would be a good CNC candidate too. It's rather nicely made, and the leadscrew is under the bed, in the middle, and covered.
[16:39:25] <archivist> what make?
[16:39:34] <andypugh> UnderSampled: Not directly. But there is an INI file setting to choose your preferred editor, which you can invoke from a menu item.
[16:39:44] <andypugh> archivist: Smart and Brown (Model M)
[16:39:47] <syyl> boley had a central feed screw for the carriage too
[16:39:52] <syyl> its pretty clever
[16:40:04] <andypugh> It's a nice idea. Double-apron too, in effect.
[16:41:02] <JT-Shop> UnderSampled: what are you trying to do?
[16:41:25] <archivist> the schaublin 120VMhas a covered screw too
[16:41:32] <UnderSampled> either NURBSs or Beziers, but I'm still trying to figure out which
[16:41:36] <syyl> *drooling*
[16:41:40] <syyl> schaublin :D
[16:42:01] <archivist> syyl, well worn out though
[16:42:05] <andypugh> http://www.lathes.co.uk/smartbrown/page7.html says that the Smart and Brown was based on the Boley.
[16:42:16] <syyl> that one last time was shown?
[16:42:25] <syyl> with the enormous pile of swarf? :D
[16:42:40] <JT-Shop> UnderSampled: I mean editing g code in axis
[16:42:46] <archivist> syyl, yes that followed me home
[16:43:05] <UnderSampled> the demo for g5.2...g5.3
[16:43:15] <syyl> would be a good candidate to overwork
[16:44:08] <archivist> still worked nicely when worn, just the tailstock wont clamp properly
[16:45:24] <jd896_laptop> is there a way to interlock outputs ?
[16:46:25] <archivist> jd896_laptop, you probably want to play with classic ladder
[16:46:37] <UnderSampled> what do you think "Make this nurbs curve or surface act like a Bezier spline in the U direction (Order U must be 3 or 4, Cyclic U must be disabled)" does (from blender)
[16:46:43] <UnderSampled> ?
[16:47:27] <jd896_laptop> can the run mode be an option inn classic ladder?
[16:47:51] <syyl> still working on a machine head, that enables me to work vertical and horizontal..
[16:47:52] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/mk2_1.png
[16:48:51] <jd896_laptop> syyl is that autocad inventor?
[16:49:00] <syyl> proE
[16:49:07] <andypugh> UnderSampled: Don't think we are being unhelpful, but I suspect most of us really have no clue
[16:49:17] <andypugh> syyl: Needs more metal.
[16:49:25] <UnderSampled> well, I don't so why should you? :D
[16:49:39] <syyl> more metal is on the way :)
[16:49:59] <andypugh> Mainly the green part. The torsional stiffness looks limited
[16:50:32] <syyl> yeah, i will add ribs there
[16:50:41] <andypugh> And it looks like a case where more metal = less machining, so a win-win
[16:51:03] <archivist> I think the weight balance has pushed the spindle axis too far off the rotation axis
[16:51:22] <syyl> maybe will have it cast
[16:51:37] <andypugh> syyl: Cast iron?
[16:51:43] <syyl> jep
[16:51:57] <andypugh> Cheaper than you might expect.
[16:52:33] <syyl> a friend knows a foundry that does one-off castings
[16:52:56] <syyl> only a few bucks per kg castiron
[16:53:29] <andypugh> I think I paid $75 for all these https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3nh6qw_vccyheS13Perwa9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink and £25 for https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/k_mU46fA45sjgTA8cfkKctMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:53:51] <syyl> thats more than fair
[16:54:12] <syyl> if you machine those pieces from bar stock...
[16:54:24] <andypugh> It's cheaper than buying big lumps of mild steel and machining them.
[16:54:43] <syyl> and: its a casting
[16:54:56] <syyl> big bonus :D
[16:55:19] <andypugh> One of the motor mounts is likely to remain spare, if anyone has any use for it.
[16:56:49] <andypugh> In-situ photo: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9gDwFeKRO-e7uH17gD0ru9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:57:32] <JT-Shop> I understand the meaning of in-situ but what is the base of the words?
[16:57:53] <andypugh> Latin?
[16:58:04] <JT-Shop> the situ part?
[16:58:17] <andypugh> Yes, latin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ
[16:58:33] <JT-Shop> ok, I know some latin now :)
[16:58:36] <andypugh> "in" is Latin too,
[16:59:15] <JT-Shop> bbl
[16:59:27] <andypugh> You can make an ad-hoc a-priori statement in latin.
[16:59:51] <syyl> that sounds SO important
[17:00:01] * syyl googles ad-hoc
[17:01:13] <andypugh> I did latin at school. In fact I was top of the class :-)
[17:02:14] <UnderSampled> wait. NURBS don't work in 3d?
[17:02:43] <andypugh> UnderSampled: Only in two at a time.
[17:02:54] <andypugh> There has been discussion..
[17:02:58] <archivist> andypugh, a customer demanded latin I know nothing http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2007/2007_03_28_M_Cooper_clock/P3282911.JPG
[17:03:19] <archivist> had to ask around
[17:03:35] <andypugh> archivist is a mutant? :-)
[17:04:09] <archivist> the clock was modified
[17:05:55] <andypugh> UnderSampled: There is some discussion here of 3D-nurbs, but it was a rather wide-ranging ramble, so picking out the nuggets of information might be a challenge. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/34389/focus=35423
[17:09:13] <UnderSampled> andypugh: is there an alternative to nurbs?
[17:09:59] <archivist> UnderSampled, do the path generation outside of gcode
[17:10:10] <UnderSampled> so, just linear sections?
[17:10:42] <andypugh> Short arcs
[17:10:49] <andypugh> Ideally.
[17:11:33] <andypugh> But most CAM gives tiny straight lines, so you get into the issue in that mailing list thread that I linked.
[17:12:02] <UnderSampled> what was the issue?
[17:15:40] <andypugh> Currently LinuxCNC always goes at a speed such that it can stop before the end of the next line segment. If the line segment is very short, this can mean that is moves very slowly.
[17:16:14] <andypugh> This is agreed to be a problem, and there are folk working on an improvement.
[17:16:54] <UnderSampled> ah
[17:17:25] <andypugh> But at the moment if you have a G-code program made of very short lines, and a machine with low accelleration, then the motion will be very slow indeed.
[17:17:50] <UnderSampled> and no 3d nurbs
[17:18:03] <andypugh> A partial solution is to tell the CAM to use long segments, and set the G64 blending to a suitable value
[17:18:21] <UnderSampled> they could just add the third dimension to nurbs
[17:18:26] <UnderSampled> :P
[17:18:43] <andypugh> I think that 3D NURBS do exist, but not in the main release.
[17:18:48] <UnderSampled> oh?
[17:18:54] <UnderSampled> my current object has 21 nurb points
[17:19:11] <UnderSampled> it would have 1024 if I were to "rasterize" it
[17:19:20] <UnderSampled> (bad use, I know, but whatever)
[17:22:16] <andypugh> UnderSampled: I think you need to ask on the mailing list. But my understanding is that Yishin Li at Arias Robots has added 3D NURBS to their branch of LinuxCNC.
[17:22:42] <tjb1> Figured it out JT-Shop and Tom_itx
[17:23:19] <andypugh> UnderSampled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwfhjVV7D7Q&feature=youtu.be
[17:23:54] <andypugh> Though that is very 2D. Wrong link.
[17:26:20] <andypugh> UnderSampled: Oooh! Look! s NURBS 3D link… http://en.araisrobo.com/linuxcnc
[17:28:16] <andypugh> UnderSampled: How uber-geek are you? Are you the kind of guy who sees a git repo and thinks "That looks fun, I will try that" or are you like the rest of us and go "Whut? How do I use that?"
[17:30:07] <anonimasu> im happy someone is working on a faster tp.
[17:30:12] <anonimasu> how is the progress?
[17:30:59] <roycroft> excellent
[17:31:10] <roycroft> i just scored a nice cart for my cnc computer/controller/power supplies for $10
[17:31:27] <roycroft> it's on wheels, and has 19" rack rails in the front
[17:32:09] <roycroft> and it's about 1.2m high, which is perfect
[17:32:41] <tjb1> Where did ya find that
[17:34:14] <andypugh> I am only watching, but it seems to have become a major re-write of the interface between G-code and motion. mhaberler <waves> and cradek seem to be the ones looking at it. it's part of a big re-think which might be an enabler for all sorts of other things that have been looked for. My impression is that it will be a lot of work, and that help would be gratefully accepted.
[17:35:11] <tjb1> Ill help, depends what you need me to do but I will try :)
[17:36:03] <andypugh> tjb1: How's your Python / C++ / C?
[17:36:12] <tjb1> Yeah...nevermind
[17:36:16] <tjb1> :)
[17:37:36] <andypugh> Willing to learn? I hadn't touched C until I started messing about with LinuxCNC, and I am in the process now of trying to learn Python.
[17:38:13] <tjb1> Which one?
[17:42:40] <UnderSampled> andypugh: I'm not scared by git
[17:42:49] <UnderSampled> though I am scared by flaky code bases
[17:42:51] <UnderSampled> if that is one of them
[17:42:52] <UnderSampled> ;)
[17:43:44] <andypugh> OK, then have a look at: https://github.com/araisrobo
[17:45:43] <andypugh> The thing to be aware of is that they offload all their realtime stuff to an FPGA, and use USB. So they are quite some way off the LinuxCNC mainstream.
[17:46:03] <UnderSampled> yeah
[17:46:16] <UnderSampled> last updated 3 days ago
[17:46:17] <UnderSampled> that's good news
[17:46:30] <andypugh> The living room carpet is horribly full of swarf again. Looks like time for the vaccum and pliers.
[17:46:44] <UnderSampled> I red that as "the living carpet room"
[17:47:01] <andypugh> I need a housekeeper.
[17:47:04] <andypugh> A patient one
[17:47:48] <andypugh> UnderSampled: They are a commercial company, their stuff clearly works.
[18:06:54] <tjb1> Is the ground on a plasma cutter - or +?
[18:07:03] <anonimasu> + i think
[18:07:21] <tjb1> Ah great...
[18:07:51] <anonimasu> but find a better souce it's from my memory
[18:10:31] <tjb1> Service manual says CPC 5 = Elec and CPC 6 = Work, 5(-), 6(+)
[18:10:55] <tjb1> But when I continuity checked it pin 5 was the work clamp...
[18:11:39] <andypugh> it might depend on what you are cutting. You can certainly alter welding polarity for technical reasons that I don't understand.
[18:12:09] <tjb1> Scratch that, I was pinning 6
[18:12:47] <tjb1> No control over polarity on a plasma cutter
[18:13:04] <tjb1> At least not mine :)
[18:13:53] <anonimasu> andypugh: electrode wear and oxide cleaning
[18:14:37] <tjb1> DC + destroys tungsten on a tig welder
[18:14:37] <andypugh> Oh, I know what the reasons _are_ I just don't understand them :-)
[18:14:53] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:14:55] <tjb1> Has to do with the travel of the electrons
[18:15:04] <tjb1> or something like that
[18:15:31] <tjb1> DC - they travel from the electrode to the work so they destroy the work and not the electrode :)
[18:17:34] <tjb1> This drives me nuts - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y166/chopshop69/plasma%20table/DSC00021.jpg
[18:18:33] <andypugh> HF unit with the water and electric eels missing?
[18:19:23] <tjb1> hmm?
[18:19:44] <Jymmm> tjb1: wth is it?
[18:19:55] * anonimasu toolpaths the taperlock thing
[18:20:11] <tjb1> its a powermax 45 with a model car case on top holding a torch height control
[18:20:19] <tjb1> so much wasted space...
[18:20:31] <Jymmm> tjb1: duct tape
[18:20:50] <tjb1> duct tape?
[18:20:51] <tjb1> Thats not mine by the way
[18:20:54] <Tom_itx> meh superglue
[18:21:06] <tjb1> Tom_itx: I figured it out
[18:21:19] <tjb1> Kind of.
[18:21:24] <Jymmm> anybody know what to cut ss tubing with without flaring the ends? 1/4" OD ?
[18:21:33] <Jymmm> by hand that is
[18:21:40] <andypugh> Hacksaw?
[18:21:49] <andypugh> Dremel?
[18:21:54] <andypugh> Teeth>
[18:22:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: nope on all three counts
[18:22:30] <tjb1> Tom_itx: Pin 6 = Work Clamp
[18:22:41] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, boy scout knife
[18:22:49] <andypugh> Wire spark erosion, electrochemical milling
[18:23:17] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: WTF?! Where in the hell am I gonna get a boy scott from to cut the tubing cleanly?! eeeesh
[18:23:24] <Jymmm> scout
[18:23:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol
[18:24:02] <andypugh> If a Dremel cutting disc deforms the ends too much, then you probably need to rectify post-cut
[18:24:11] <tjb1> Lathe.
[18:24:21] <Jymmm> tjb1: "...by hand"
[18:24:28] <tjb1> Get creative :P
[18:24:42] <Jymmm> I am, I'm asking all these metal workers in here =)
[18:25:03] <andypugh> Jymmm: Tell us the problem rather than ask us for details on your answer.
[18:25:04] <tjb1> Spin it with one hand, hold cut off tool with the other
[18:25:05] <Tom_itx> we tend to use power tools
[18:25:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: what part of clean cut on tubing didn't make sense?
[18:26:04] <andypugh> You didn't say that. You said "without flaring"
[18:26:10] <tjb1> Cant you use the thing that is used to cut brake tubing?
[18:26:16] <Tom_itx> diamond empregnated hacksaw blade
[18:26:48] <Jymmm> tjb1: link or pic?
[18:27:05] <Tom_itx> it will flare the end
[18:27:18] <tjb1> https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D2&q=brake+tubing+cutter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=SsLbT8-3McXY2AXd5-DRCg&biw=1680&bih=870&sei=TcLbT-_gDOaC2wXv2JTdCg
[18:27:44] <Jymmm> tjb1: Ah, yeah, thst's just a tubing cutter.
[18:27:47] <andypugh> A normal tube cutter won't flare the ends, but will pinch them in a bit. But that's normally good, as it gives O-rings a nice entry, or makes it easier to get them into the fittng.
[18:28:17] <Tom_itx> it also decreases the flow rate
[18:28:22] <Jymmm> yep
[18:28:33] <Jymmm> no flaring, no pinching, no burrs.
[18:28:35] <tjb1> Then stuff something in the hole and expand it a bit...
[18:28:37] <Tom_itx> you never know when you may wanna stop real fast
[18:28:46] <Jymmm> heh
[18:29:01] <andypugh> So cut 1/2" too long, put a drill down the middle, and make a second cut.
[18:29:37] <Jymmm> cutting ss tubing by hand is a REAL BITCH even with pinching
[18:30:15] <andypugh> How much "by hand" do you mean?
[18:30:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/smile.jpg
[18:30:50] <Jymmm> With the piece I got today, 8.
[18:31:18] <Jymmm> But I'll probably have about 20-40 to do.
[18:31:49] <Tom_itx> so if you have that many why do it manually?
[18:31:58] <andypugh> Hand-tools or hand-held electric tools? (or hand-held air tools, steam-driven tools, nuclear-fusion powered ultra-rasps, antimatter beam generators…)
[18:32:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: there's suppose to be a hand drill based cutter, but I haven't found it yet, or it's price. If it's $300, not really worth it.
[18:33:02] <anonimasu> http://ah.io23.net/ul/files/Screen%20Shot%202012-06-16%20at%2001.21.40%20.png
[18:33:26] <Jymmm> andypugh: and the nut for that thread? =)
[18:33:36] <anonimasu> standard m20 km nut
[18:33:52] <Jymmm> tapered?
[18:34:02] <anonimasu> it'll make it squeeze at the center of the taper :)
[18:34:11] <Jymmm> heh
[18:34:22] <anonimasu> or a m20 regular nut is better more contact area
[18:34:39] <andypugh> anonimasu: I think I prefer my plain taper and separate screw. It isn't as likely to unscrew inconveniently I don't think.
[18:34:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: And stop using safari, it's as bad as IE is securty wise
[18:34:50] <Tom_itx> http://www.toolbarn.com/blades/pipe-cutter.html?manufacturer=486
[18:35:13] <anonimasu> andypugh: the taper will lock it in place without unscrewing very nicely
[18:35:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: find "stainless steel" on that page =) http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/35S-Tubing-Cutter/EN/index.htm
[18:36:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the page you inked to that is
[18:36:04] <Tom_itx> http://www.toolbarn.com/ridgid-33190.html
[18:36:14] <andypugh> If you tighten it rather more than the motor torque then that really ought to be the case, I agree.
[18:37:05] <anonimasu> it's a 1mm taper over 40mm
[18:38:29] <anonimasu> err actually more -_-
[18:40:36] <anonimasu> another re-draw needed.
[18:41:49] <tjb1> anonimasu: Nice, a fellow mac user
[18:41:59] <tjb1> I gotta be honest with you, parallels sucks.
[18:42:34] <anonimasu> it works decent enough for me
[18:42:47] <anonimasu> even for cad
[18:43:01] <anonimasu> tho, magicprefs is needed to make the mouse work..
[18:43:35] <tjb1> What does magicprefs do?
[18:44:13] <anonimasu> fix the third + forth mouse button
[18:44:33] <tjb1> What mouse do you use?
[18:44:34] <andypugh> tjb1: http://imagebin.org/216583
[18:44:43] <anonimasu> the magic mouse
[18:44:53] <anonimasu> and touchpad sometimes..
[18:44:57] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Too big diameter, but... http://www.t-drill.com/product.asp?sua=2&lang=9&s=26
[18:45:17] <tjb1> Whats that Andy? Showing you use a mac too?
[18:45:46] <andypugh> I develop LinuxCNC in XCode :-)
[18:45:57] <tjb1> Well thats over my head :)
[18:46:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: xcode?! bah! ;)
[18:46:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: oh and $700 too =)
[18:47:40] <Jymmm> I wonder if I can rent one
[18:48:18] <Tom_itx> buy it then sell it on ebay when you're done
[18:48:28] <Jymmm> lol
[18:48:31] <andypugh> tjb1: mainly. Also showing that Axis in 2560 x 1440 looks a bit funny,
[18:48:38] <Tom_itx> i did that once with a nail gun
[18:48:55] <Tom_itx> sold at a garage sale for a tad bit less than i paid
[18:49:14] <Tom_itx> same as renting but had a brand new tool to work with
[18:49:20] <anonimasu> it shold be 21-19mm taper that gives me 20mm at the center around the shaft.
[18:51:19] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: this looks scary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0xL3FnhIIY
[18:51:47] <andypugh> Jymmm: "Features easily mashed-off stupid safety shield"
[18:52:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: hahahahaha. it was the 1/2" vibration that got me
[18:53:02] <Tom_itx> good brand
[18:53:13] <andypugh> I have seen much more comact and cheaper looking versions of the same sort of tool
[18:53:34] <tjb1> Who knows how to make an ADC?
[18:53:34] <Jymmm> andypugh: exactly, I never expected somethign like that form Milwaki brand
[18:53:37] <anonimasu> milwakuee is pretty bad stuff -_- their cordless drills smell like burning
[18:53:48] <Jymmm> I would have said it was broken
[18:53:55] <Tom_itx> i've had good luck with their corded tools
[18:53:58] <anonimasu> two of them?
[18:54:15] <anonimasu> and not the hobby kind.
[18:54:45] <Tom_itx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=WVdzP53X9vw
[18:55:28] <andypugh> smelling like burning, but working isn't a problem though>
[18:56:13] <anonimasu> one died after a few weeks like 2.
[18:56:17] <anonimasu> not heavy use
[18:56:49] <roycroft> i have a milwaukee 12v cordless driver
[18:56:51] <roycroft> it works great
[18:57:10] <roycroft> i got it for free when i bought a borescope
[18:57:17] <roycroft> and it's turned out to be fantastic
[18:57:30] <roycroft> most of my battery tools are dewalt 18v, which i love, but they're big and heavy
[18:57:54] <roycroft> the milwaukee is very lightweight, packs plenty of power, and feels really good to hold
[18:58:07] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Might have worked better as a joke if the butt-crack attracted the attention of someone who knew that the problem needed to be fixed in the actual tap(faucet)
[18:58:27] * roycroft suspects anonimasu either got a couple from a bad batch or abuses tools
[18:58:49] <andypugh> I am something of a Ryobi enthusiast
[18:58:57] <Tom_itx> me too
[18:58:57] <roycroft> and my 1/2" magnum drill is a good 30+ years old now, and still works like a champ
[18:59:12] <Tom_itx> i had real good luck with their cordless drill
[18:59:16] <roycroft> i don't have much ryobi any more
[18:59:36] <andypugh> They are good enough for me, and cheap enough for me. I think that every brand is aimed at a price and level of use.
[18:59:47] <Tom_itx> B&D suck
[19:00:00] <roycroft> i'm not sure that the dewalt 18v stuff is the best in its class, but at the time i got my first 18v battery tool it was about the only thing out there
[19:00:12] <roycroft> and i stuck with it, as there's a big investment in batteries and chargers
[19:00:21] <roycroft> i agree that the b&d stuff is quite not scottish
[19:00:53] <andypugh> Hitachi / Makita feel and look great, and I have no doubt work well for ever, but hit the price point about 2x what I want to pay.
[19:00:56] <roycroft> i was looking at some new 20v bosch lithium ion tools a couple days ago, and they look pretty impressive
[19:01:10] <roycroft> were i to migrate to another platform i'd take a hard look at bosch
[19:01:37] <andypugh> Whatever, Li-Ion is wha you want.
[19:01:44] <Jymmm> no way
[19:01:48] <roycroft> nowadays, yes
[19:01:58] <Jymmm> unless yoou like replacing batreries every 24 months
[19:02:02] <roycroft> when i started investing in the dewalt 18v stuff li-ion was not an option
[19:02:16] <roycroft> you know, though
[19:02:20] <Jymmm> Ni-MH is what I go for.
[19:02:42] <roycroft> back in the mid '80s i bought a very early makita 7.2v cordless drill/driver
[19:02:52] <roycroft> ran on a ni-cad pack
[19:02:57] <roycroft> that original battery pack still works to this day
[19:03:02] <andypugh> when I first bought my current drill it got charged twice that year. it held charge, in a way that the others dont.
[19:03:08] <roycroft> i've no idea how or why
[19:03:23] <Jymmm> If you go Li-Ion when you need to replace the battery in 18-36 months, it'll cost more than to buy a new tool
[19:03:42] <roycroft> that's not necessarily a disqualifier, jymmm
[19:03:49] <Jymmm> $120 fo the tool, $80 for battery
[19:03:49] <roycroft> li-ion are very lightweight
[19:04:06] <roycroft> and if you use the tool a lot, the weight savings can be quite important
[19:04:39] <roycroft> ergonomically, and because one can pack more energy into the battery, so it lasts longer between charges
[19:04:56] <roycroft> when time is money (and it always is, to a degree), the time saved swapping out battery packs can add up
[19:05:14] <roycroft> especially if you're on a ladder/scaffold working
[19:05:16] <Jymmm> it take that long to swap a battery?
[19:05:40] <Jymmm> you yell to the ground to someoen to toss you a battery
[19:05:42] <roycroft> in some situations it can take several minutes, unless you have a backpack full of batteries
[19:05:50] <andypugh> However, I did manage to flatten that battery in less than an hour yesterday. It drilled a 64mm hole in 1/4" steel with a hole saw. Then it drilled the same hole twice in 3mm aluminium. Then it went int the circular saw, and did a 12" cut in 1/2" aluminium tooling plate.
[19:06:30] <roycroft> assuming there's someone on the ground
[19:06:43] <roycroft> and assuming it's relatively safe to toss a battery
[19:06:45] <Jymmm> if time is money, there usually is
[19:07:22] <roycroft> all i'm saying is making absolute statements does not always convey the whole story
[19:07:39] <Jymmm> Else, you've been doing this long enough to know to bring a couple spares up the scaffoliding with you.
[19:08:15] <andypugh> In fact, my cordless drill is so good that I cut the plug off my corded drill because I had a more pressing use for it about 4 years ago, and haven't felt the need to put one back.
[19:08:27] <roycroft> i can tell you, what with the problems i'm having with my hands these days, using a tool that saves a significant amount of weight is a big win for me
[19:08:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: the cord or thee drill?
[19:08:41] <roycroft> oh, i still use the magnum upon occasion
[19:08:45] <roycroft> but not very often
[19:09:34] <roycroft> i probably pull that drill out a handful of times a year
[19:09:50] <roycroft> i use my impact drill more often than the magnum
[19:10:10] <roycroft> but i have three 18v dewalt drills, and those are what get used 99% of the time
[19:10:26] <Jymmm> one for each hand?
[19:11:05] <roycroft> most often, one for a drill bit, one for a countersink, and one for a screwgun bit
[19:11:38] <roycroft> sometimes one for a center drill, one for a jobber drill, and one for a countersink
[19:16:25] <Tom_itx> ubuntu doesn't like ati video cards?
[19:16:57] <Tom_itx> oh wait.. maybe it's just slow
[19:18:52] <Tom_itx> i wonder if this pc will even work for it
[19:21:03] <tjb1> Ever use a screw driver gun?
[19:21:06] <tjb1> Thing impacts :D
[19:22:08] <roycroft> i've used scewguns heaps of times
[19:23:44] <tjb1> The ones that impact?
[19:25:03] <tjb1> http://www.cordlessimpactdriverreviews.com/images/18v%20Impact%20Driver.jpg
[19:25:52] <roycroft> yes
[19:25:59] <tjb1> They are awesommmee
[19:26:02] <roycroft> indeed, they are
[19:26:11] <tjb1> Except the price of batteries
[19:27:11] <Tom_itx> i don't think this pc will work, i'm getting blinking leds on the kbd now
[19:27:18] <Tom_itx> live cd install
[19:28:42] <Tom_itx> athlon 64 3200
[19:28:53] <Tom_itx> anyone try one of those?
[19:29:41] <andypugh> How many cores?
[19:30:18] <Tom_itx> one i think
[19:30:26] <Tom_itx> it's an older pc
[19:31:37] <Tom_itx> boots windows fine
[19:31:49] <Tom_itx> it's been sitting here for a while so i thought i'd try it
[19:32:10] <kb8wmc> I updated my brother's computer on his router table and am getting an error on LinuxCNC startup as follow: Can not find -sec MOT -var MOT -num 1
[19:32:26] <Tom_itx> this hangs on the initial install
[19:32:39] * roycroft is still struggling to get a good working computer for his linuxcnc production install
[19:32:45] <kb8wmc> Can not fine -sec IO -var IO -num 1
[19:33:08] <roycroft> someone here recommended an inexpensive (~US$80?) logic board that is known to work well
[19:33:19] <Tom_itx> atom
[19:33:22] <Tom_itx> i have one
[19:33:26] <roycroft> this new rack i got today to house things is fairly shallow
[19:33:32] <kb8wmc> Can not find -sec LINUXCNC -var NML_FILE -num1
[19:33:36] <roycroft> the 1u machine i've been working with is too deep for it
[19:33:46] <roycroft> so it may be time to buy that other board and a shallow rack enclosure
[19:34:06] <kb8wmc> Can not find EMC -var NML_FILE -num1
[19:34:45] <kb8wmc> any ideas what to do to fix the errors
[19:41:54] <andypugh> kb8wmc: Ignore them
[19:42:22] <eric_unterhausen> I remember someone mentioning a stepper drive on the email list, but I can't find it.
[19:42:26] <eric_unterhausen> Leadwill?
[19:42:35] <andypugh> Either they don't matter, or they are not the underlying problem
[19:42:59] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: Leadshine>
[19:43:04] <eric_unterhausen> thanks
[19:44:54] <Tom_afk> i was wrong, it's an athlon 64 3700 with little ram
[19:45:45] <Tom_afk> is 512M enough?
[19:45:55] <andypugh> Count the cores?
[19:45:58] <eric_unterhausen> the other day my boss asked me what it meant in our paper when it said N-m
[19:46:01] <Tom_afk> oe
[19:46:02] <Tom_afk> one
[19:46:16] <andypugh> 512 ought to be enough.
[19:46:35] <Tom_afk> it hangs on the install
[19:46:40] <Jymmm> I wonder how it determines the length? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Hr3BLKKsw
[19:46:40] <Tom_afk> gets all sorts of errors
[19:46:49] <Tom_afk> runs windows fine
[19:46:54] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Did you count it twice to be sure?
[19:46:54] <Tom_afk> i'm on it currently
[19:47:12] <eric_unterhausen> he also asked what the parenthetical (lbf-in) meant
[19:47:15] <Tom_afk> looking at cpu-z right now
[19:47:29] <eric_unterhausen> Tom_afk, what kind of errors?
[19:48:29] <Tom_afk> lots of io errors
[19:48:35] <Tom_afk> look like some disk sector errors
[19:48:42] <Tom_afk> but it never gets to the hdd
[19:48:43] <eric_unterhausen> io is usually disk
[19:49:18] <Tom_afk> lemme try it again
[19:49:26] <eric_unterhausen> I used to have a usb drive that had the smart diagnostics installed so that I could test all the windows computers that seemed to have disk problems
[19:49:29] <Tom_afk> i'll remove all the hdd jumpers on the back this time
[19:49:36] <eric_unterhausen> windows will just slow down and not tell you about them
[19:49:54] <Tom_itx> i'll try that first and see
[19:50:56] <eric_unterhausen> unfortunately that usb drive died when I threw my keys in a fit of annoyance
[19:50:59] <andypugh> Jymmm: "We couldn't be bothered to find a ful set of washers of the same size, but our machine is cheap and works for at least several minutes"
[19:51:21] <kb8wmc> andypugh: thanks for the suggested option.....brother won't be too happy though
[19:51:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: heh, where did you see that?
[19:53:54] <eric_unterhausen> at 2:15 it has an error
[19:54:41] <andypugh> Jymmm: Near the cutting blade. I notice these things. I _really_ notice missing bolts. I will be walking down the street thinking about other things and get a sudden "missing bolt alert" and spend a while working out where I saw it, and if it matters. Honda motorcycles are the main problem, they tend to share parts and simply not use lugs and flanges.
[19:55:41] <andypugh> Jymmm: 00:18
[19:55:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: LOL. I wasn't sure if the rotation of the yellow drum was actually the "counter"
[20:01:34] <archivist> er tube out sensor on one slot only!
[20:01:53] <Jymmm> I dont see anythng at 0:18.
[20:02:36] <archivist> washers are different
[20:02:47] <andypugh> The guy making the video didnt either.
[20:02:56] <Jymmm> I'm sorta kinda thinking the rottion of the yellow drum jsut turns till it's fed the desired length
[20:03:04] <archivist> shakycam
[20:03:10] <roycroft> i notice not only missing bolts, but mismatched bolts
[20:03:18] * roycroft can be quite anal retentive
[20:03:50] <skunkworks__> eric_unterhausen: a lot of times - windows will give you diagnostics in the event viewer if it is having write/read problems
[20:03:56] <Jymmm> focus people focus! We're tyring to figure out how it measures =)
[20:03:56] <roycroft> and not always in a good way
[20:04:19] <archivist> Jymmm, its so obvious how it measures
[20:04:22] <Jymmm> I wish I could see under that drum
[20:04:52] <Jymmm> archivist: Ok Mr Smarty Pants, lets hear it =)
[20:04:55] <archivist> a stepper and circumference
[20:05:03] <Jymmm> archivist: That's what I was saing
[20:05:15] <Jymmm> saying
[20:05:35] <Jymmm> But, if the drum gets dirty, it's going to slip some
[20:05:45] <andypugh> And?
[20:05:53] <Jymmm> and shorter pieces
[20:06:36] <andypugh> There is no need to worry about cumulative error, as long as each bit of tube is close enough, it's fine.
[20:07:48] <Jymmm> Well, too long is no biggy
[20:07:51] <archivist> you can be extra anal and put an idler roller underneath with an encoder to measure the length
[20:08:20] <archivist> and then worry about tube driving the idler slip
[20:08:24] <Jymmm> not so much the idler, just whatever that yelow stuff is
[20:08:42] <Jymmm> (looks like tool dip =)
[20:10:04] <Tom_itx> buffer IO error on device sr0
[20:10:21] <Jymmm> Hmmm, it's about 1/4" thick
[20:14:01] <andypugh> Independent rollers for each channel would seem to be a better idea.
[20:14:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: why?
[20:15:10] <andypugh> But it probably sells for a price we wouldn't necessarily bother getting out of bed for.
[20:15:43] <andypugh> Jymmm: Ovality/orientation?
[20:17:13] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/22x30-CNC-mill-router-kits-industrial-grade-engraver-/260696689900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb2bbccec
[20:17:40] <Tom_itx> what is device sr0?
[20:18:03] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JLW-T1-CNC-router-engraving-mill-PCB-milling-machine-/250563893613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56c5996d
[20:18:16] <Jymmm> that last one might be great for PCB
[20:19:11] <andypugh> The second one is at least an unusual design. A bit deckel.
[20:19:37] <Tom_itx> sr0 isn't the hdd is it?
[20:20:00] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solder-paste-glue-liquid-auto-dispenser-for-SMD-PCB-/270498029867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efaf0612b
[20:20:23] <Tom_itx> it didn't like pri master hdd, sec master cd
[20:20:37] <Tom_itx> so i rewired it pri master hdd, pri slave cd
[20:20:40] <Tom_itx> same error
[20:21:39] <Jymmm> WHAT didn't like it? mobo or linux? Verify setting in BIOS ?
[20:22:08] <Tom_itx> linux
[20:22:11] <Tom_itx> i did check bios
[20:22:20] <andypugh> Night all
[20:22:25] <Tom_itx> it started ubuntu in terminal mode
[20:22:31] <Tom_itx> nothing else loaded
[20:26:16] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-1000-line-rev-IP54-6krpm-quadrature-optical-encoder-/280647960133?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4157ec0645
[20:30:47] * Tom_itx grabs another hdd
[20:32:50] <Jymmm> $1400 USD and no yellow drum http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Heat-shrink-tube-cable-pipe-Cutting-Machine-USG-/290513110259?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a3ee44f3
[20:34:16] <Tom_itx> what is device sr0??
[20:36:03] <Jymmm> http://bit.ly/NuaNim
[20:39:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Are you using CD-RW discs?
[20:39:13] <Jymmm> or CD-R's
[20:39:33] <Tom_itx> r
[20:39:46] <Tom_itx> it worked on the atom fine
[20:40:08] <Jymmm> Well, Either 1) replace the ODD, or 2) LiveUSB
[20:42:27] <Tom_itx> no USB boot on that pc
[20:42:34] <Tom_itx> unless other removable is USB
[20:42:49] <Tom_itx> too old a pc
[20:43:36] <Jymmm> if it's that old, toss it.
[20:43:42] <tjb1> mail it to me
[20:43:43] <tjb1> :D
[20:43:51] <tjb1> Ill use the case
[20:44:25] <Tom_itx> no to both
[20:44:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Hell, I'll GIVE you a serve mobo if you pay shipping.
[20:44:53] <Tom_itx> Jymmm this pc was just sitting here so i thought i'd try it
[20:45:03] <tjb1> Well if you ever give up on it let me know :)
[20:45:07] <Jymmm> try to chuck it in the trash
[20:45:09] <tjb1> Ill buy it
[20:46:18] <Tom_itx> so i shouldn't try my 8088 mb?
[20:46:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Try it encapsulated in acrylic resin
[20:47:20] <Tom_itx> there's a company here that would do that
[20:47:31] <Tom_itx> they encapsulate dandelions and the like
[20:47:41] <Tom_itx> no clue how they do it
[20:48:01] <Jymmm> it's an easy two step process
[20:48:23] <Tom_itx> with no deformation of the weed?
[20:49:22] <Jymmm> you do a first pour, let it set a bit, insert whatever, then do a secound pour
[20:50:13] <Tom_itx> just pouring it would deform the seed pod
[20:50:28] <Tom_itx> very fragile
[20:51:16] <Jymmm> no, the first pour isn't solid, you insert the flower and it'll stand on it's own. then you gently pout in more slowly.
[20:51:39] <Jymmm> it's water like, so will fill the gaps
[20:51:48] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2L4OxW2gKc&feature=player_embedded#!
[20:51:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: watch that
[20:51:57] <Tom_itx> the seeds would detach and float to the top
[20:52:25] <Jymmm> its not water
[20:52:35] <Jymmm> they are more durable than that
[20:55:17] <Tom_itx> i can see coins etc but a dandelion that has gone to seed?
[20:55:56] <Jymmm> Is they were as fragile as you make them out to be, they would never be able to pick them from the field attached.
[20:56:01] <Tom_itx> they had quite a display of things they encapsulated
[20:57:00] <Tom_itx> they looked too perfect
[20:57:11] <Jymmm> dandylions are pretty durable f you get them early in the season and not pick them at the end of summer.
[20:58:47] <Jymmm> how much do they charge for an encapsulated dandylion? $30?
[20:59:01] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[20:59:02] <Jymmm> the resin is not cheap
[20:59:14] <Tom_itx> i did some work for them and got a tour of the place
[20:59:19] <Jymmm> ah
[20:59:30] <Tom_itx> they did all sorts of things
[20:59:50] <Jymmm> probably bought in 55gal drums
[20:59:54] <Tom_itx> globes, beer taps, plaques all kinds of stuff
[21:00:01] <Tom_itx> i'm sure
[21:00:28] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: do you have the name/city of the place?
[21:00:49] <Tom_itx> i forget the name, it was something like century products maybe
[21:00:51] <Tom_itx> wichita
[21:01:02] <Tom_itx> it's been too long ago
[21:01:09] <tjb1> Oh yeah.
[21:01:49] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: found em, thanks
[21:01:53] <Jymmm> http://www.centurymfg.com/
[21:02:06] <Tom_itx> yeah
[21:02:58] <ReadError> http://ridiculousfish.com/shell/
[21:03:04] <ReadError> pretty awesome shell :)
[21:08:11] <alex4nder> ReadError: how's it?
[21:08:29] <ReadError> pretty gooood
[21:08:34] <ReadError> g10 cuts nicely
[21:08:52] <alex4nder> you doing it for your copter project?
[21:09:25] <ReadError> well this is actually for a microheli
[21:09:44] <alex4nder> but the same copter you were working on before right?
[21:09:45] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/AvZhxOOCEAM0Odx.jpg:large
[21:09:58] <alex4nder> werd
[21:12:41] <ReadError> 1st time i used a tiny endmill
[21:12:44] <ReadError> 0.020"
[21:31:56] <Tom_itx> i'll try another cd
[21:31:59] <Tom_itx> 2 drives failed
[21:32:21] <Tom_itx> burning it slow
[21:33:54] <ReadError> usb?
[21:49:50] <r00t4rd3d> just bought a dewalt dwp611
[21:50:14] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.dewalt.com/tools/woodworking-routers-dwp611.aspx
[22:16:19] <uw> whoa LEDs
[22:43:11] <r00t4rd3d> where is a good source for a 1/4 to 1/8 collet adapter?
[22:43:48] <Tom_itx> a lathe
[22:45:27] <jdhNC> check the router mfg to see if they sell a 1/8" collet
[22:46:39] <r00t4rd3d> i dont believe they do
[22:53:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Die-Grinder-Router-1-4-to-1-8-Adapter-Chuck-Collet-/180693282053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1228ad05
[23:09:33] <uw> pyCam folks, any idea for how to optimize the tool path? it created one alright, but it's doing things in a pretty silly manner (to me the human anyway).
[23:11:51] <Tom_itx> you can't order the tool path?
[23:12:14] <Tom_itx> did it follow how you created the elements?
[23:12:53] <Tom_itx> i don't know pyCam but you should be able to order the path somehow
[23:14:41] <Connor> jdhNC: You around?
[23:17:56] <jdhNC> yep
[23:18:08] <Connor> chk pvt msg :)
[23:19:13] <uw> Tom_itx, well, there's a "reverse" button? pretty much takes every path and reverses it
[23:22:05] <Tom_itx> uw, you can't group them somehow and order the path by the group selection order?
[23:22:15] <Tom_itx> my cad cam allows that
[23:24:25] <uw> Tom_itx, just curious, can you tell me what program you are using to generate your gcode?
[23:24:30] <uw> i am rather new to this
[23:29:47] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[23:29:51] <Tom_itx> it's a pro package
[23:30:25] <Tom_itx> does pyCam run in linux or windows?
[23:32:04] <uw> Tom_itx, thanks looks pretty good
[23:32:18] <Tom_itx> ?
[23:32:24] <Tom_itx> what did you do?
[23:32:58] <uw> pyCam runs in linux. It doesnt look like smartcam makes a linux variant
[23:33:08] <Tom_itx> no
[23:33:11] <Tom_itx> and it's not cheap
[23:33:26] <uw> i just googled smartcam, thats all.
[23:33:33] <uw> how much does it cost?
[23:33:40] <Tom_itx> mastercam is also another one
[23:33:51] <Tom_itx> it was ~8k when i got it
[23:34:04] <uw> holy moly i thought you were going to say $500 or something
[23:34:23] <uw> jesus that better have came with a set of hookers lol
[23:34:47] <uw> i just want to make a "#1 Dad" plaque for fathers day
[23:34:56] <Tom_itx> the guy i was programming for at the time replaced it with a seat of catia for $75k
[23:35:00] <uw> 8k is a little out of budget for me
[23:35:47] <uw> ouch at that rate, it's probably a pretty custom piece of 1 or 2 off software
[23:35:52] <Tom_itx> look at sheetcam?
[23:35:57] <Tom_itx> i think it's called
[23:37:24] <uw> hmm sheet cam also has a linux variant
[23:38:16] <uw> maybe ill give this a try
[23:39:19] <uw> but maybe i can learn something here; so what more do you get from a $8k CAM software say over whatever sheetcam costs?
[23:40:26] <Tom_itx> it's a full blown 3d package
[23:40:54] <Tom_itx> allows you to define post for various machines
[23:40:58] <Tom_itx> lots more
[23:41:06] <uw> so say for a 6axis robot arm machine?
[23:41:29] <Tom_itx> it's for cutting parts
[23:41:34] <Tom_itx> not robotics control
[23:42:09] <Tom_itx> i don't know how they have progressed since i got it but it didn't do that at the time
[23:42:11] <uw> well yes, but one of those robotic arm cutting machines
[23:42:32] <Tom_itx> i'm sure some does it now
[23:42:58] <Tom_itx> you can do all sorts of surfaces etc
[23:43:16] <Tom_itx> where you are limited with 2.5 axis cad cam software
[23:46:00] <r00t4rd3d> send me a copy of smartcam plz
[23:46:55] <uw> r00t4rd3d, it only works in windows though
[23:47:03] <jdhNC> r00t: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170849511325
[23:47:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.mastercam.com/
[23:48:22] <r00t4rd3d> nice
[23:48:51] <r00t4rd3d> http://thepiratebay.se/search/mastercam/0/7/0
[23:49:18] <uw> are you suggesting people pirate r00t4rd3d?
[23:51:39] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[23:52:39] <r00t4rd3d> wanna borrow my eye patch and wooden leg?
[23:53:08] <r00t4rd3d> polly stays with me though
[23:53:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.surfcam.com/
[23:54:05] <Tom_itx> solidworks has addins for cam as well