#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-13

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[02:15:35] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:25:43] <_abc_> I have the problem that the 10.04 lts does not see its usb keyboard after installation during the grub boot menu stage. This thread is relevant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub/+bug/60177
[02:25:47] <_abc_> Is there a fix?
[02:27:47] <_abc_> Also on an old board I tried to install just for show (has no cnc hardware), the rtai system refused to install claiming no APIC was found (configured but not found). Is an APIC essential for RTAI oprtation? Is it safe to add noapic on the kernel command line for RTAI use? (assuming I will read up on the correct syntax first)
[02:32:26] <psha[work]> apic/lapic and friends are documented in the wiki
[02:36:07] <_abc_> Search for noapic in wiki.linuxcnc.org::Search : 0 pages found
[02:36:34] <_abc_> but apic is found
[02:39:43] <Valen> _abc_: its usually an issue with bios and keyboard settings
[03:09:09] <_abc_> I fixed the apci problem, imho lapci should be the default in the cli, it seems to work best like that on most machines
[03:09:43] <_abc_> The USB has legacy bios support enabled, and the keyboard (USB) works great in BIOS setup, stops working in the grub menu, and works again in the booted system
[03:09:48] <_abc_> So it is a grub problem
[03:10:13] <_abc_> Also when in this grub menu, pressing any key on the keyboard blinks a single led in the keyboard, which signifies the keyboard is in some invalid mode
[03:10:29] <_abc_> (also the keypress has no effect on the computer)
[03:10:47] <_abc_> A more interesting question is, how does one tell axis to ignore homing?
[03:11:09] <_abc_> I tried setting HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 acc. wiki article, does not work, and causes more errors
[03:11:25] <_abc_> Specifically this wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch#No_Switches
[03:11:37] <_abc_> which is plain wrong (the HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0 part)
[04:25:32] <_abc_> Okay I fixed it. I will put up a mini howto and a test ini file which allows the test program LinuxCNC in 10.04 lts to be run "dry" (without hardware). It was tedious. I do not yet have a wiki account, I might get one to put the updated information there. This concerns first runs, and pc tests, no actual hardware use. It is also needed to test whether a specific pc is okay for use with emc2/linuxcnc/axis.
[04:26:25] <_abc_> One more thing: using the keyboard in grub while in the boot menu requires BIOS legacy USB support enabled, but this causes timing errors in linuxcnc. So the legacy support should be disabled and only enabled when needed. A grub patch to use USB would be MOST welcome.
[04:26:33] <_abc_> I am done for now, will be back later/tomorrow
[04:29:38] <_abc_> Just as a quick info, all of the following must be set to allow home switch less test operation: in each axis section, in the .ini file: HOME_SEARCH_VEL=0 HOME_LATCH_VEL=0 USE_INDEX=NO ; also set HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS=YES and set MAX_LIMIT and MIN_LIMIT large and small, to allow the test code to run. Setting IGNORE_LIMITS=YES has no effect and running the test code with this still causes program stop and error flagging (limit exceeded on joint 2). ...
[04:29:44] <_abc_> ... Setting MAX_LIMIT and MIN_LIMIT permits the test code to run 'dry' (and any timing errors which might appear to be seen - that is the purpose of this test!).
[04:29:52] <_abc_> Now I am really done here
[04:49:42] <sendoushi> hi. forgot who was helping me yesterday
[04:49:51] <sendoushi> :(
[04:52:43] <awallin> archivist may have an irc-log..
[04:52:59] <micges> logger[psha]_: hi
[04:52:59] <logger[psha]_> micges: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-13.html
[04:53:06] <micges> sendoushi: ^^
[04:53:49] <sendoushi> doesnt have yesterday stuff but thanks
[04:54:01] <sendoushi> when he gets online i guess i'll know
[04:54:02] <sendoushi> ehehe
[04:54:11] <micges> change date in address
[04:54:29] <Loetmichel> sed: time?
[04:54:33] <Loetmichel> sendoushi
[04:54:46] * Loetmichel has about 4gb logs on the disk here ,-)
[04:54:49] <sendoushi> ham around 6h20
[04:54:56] <sendoushi> greenwhich
[04:55:10] <Loetmichel> ehrm... and what time is it now where you live?
[04:55:19] <Loetmichel> ah
[04:55:26] <sendoushi> 10h46
[04:56:10] <Loetmichel> i see
[04:56:17] <Loetmichel> 6:20 pm or am?
[04:56:20] <sendoushi> pm
[04:56:50] <sendoushi> 6h30 around that
[04:58:02] <Loetmichel> grrr, cant see the logs over the VNC
[04:58:13] <sendoushi> eheh thanks anyway
[04:58:21] <Loetmichel> can it wait some hrs?'til i am at home?
[04:58:23] <sendoushi> still deciding which design i want for the cnc
[04:58:31] <sendoushi> yep :)
[04:58:55] <Loetmichel> i would suggest : a sturdy one ;-)
[04:59:05] <sendoushi> good suggestion eheh
[05:02:14] <Loetmichel> were you the cheapskate from yesterday?
[05:02:29] <sendoushi> cheapskate?
[05:02:39] <sendoushi> second time i heard that term in my life. both here
[05:21:06] <archivist> bookmark
[05:22:31] <archivist> my logs are broken at his moment
[05:28:50] <sendoushi> still dunno what cheapskate is
[05:29:15] <Valen> tightarse?
[05:29:45] <Valen> somebody who will go to great effort not to spend money, despite generally having a poorer product in the end
[05:29:56] <sendoushi> oh
[05:30:13] <sendoushi> naaa i'm no cheapskate
[05:31:11] <sendoushi> but still... i'm making a cnc when i never seen one and don't know if i like or if i have a real use for it so... i won't spend 1000$ when i can just spend 400$ Loetmichel
[05:47:21] <sendoushi> what's happenning with cnc zone?
[05:54:53] <jthornton> commercial overload
[05:55:25] <jdhNC> I turned off skimlinks
[05:58:29] <sendoushi> so... what kind of cnc mills exist in terms of mechanics plans?
[05:58:45] <sendoushi> i've been seeing quite a lot the same design
[05:58:55] <sendoushi> but i'm still wondering whats the best one for me
[06:00:56] <jthornton> vismach or http://axis.unpy.net/etchcnc
[06:01:23] <sendoushi> etchcnc has nothing to do with what i want to do :P
[06:01:50] <jthornton> I thought you said you didn't know what you wanted to do
[06:02:08] <sendoushi> i do i just don't know what to design
[06:02:25] <sendoushi> main objective: guitars
[06:03:06] <awallin> if youre not cutting metal and are on a tight budget then maybe an MDF-framed router style machine would do?
[06:03:21] <awallin> if you could get the MDF parts cnc or laser cut somewhere
[06:03:28] <sendoushi> i could
[06:03:37] <sendoushi> mdf-framed hm
[06:04:06] <sendoushi> and the design?
[06:04:14] <sendoushi> or is that a kind of design?
[06:04:24] <jthornton> you could cobble up one and use it to cut your mdf parts with
[06:04:41] <sendoushi> if i ever cut metal is like ... faceplate for an amp or pedal or something
[06:05:05] <awallin> moving gantry is the common router design I guess. coolant fluid would be a no-no with an mdf frame
[06:05:51] <sendoushi> what about floating / moving table?
[06:06:16] <awallin> moving table requires more space, but is probably stiffer
[06:06:40] <sendoushi> moving gantry ok (dont have much space)
[06:06:43] <awallin> something like this would be minimum budget and OKish for guitarr wood-parts http://www.flickr.com/photos/doublellama/1071494849/
[06:06:45] <sendoushi> now i just need plans :D
[06:07:41] <sendoushi> hm
[06:07:44] <awallin> then you need to decide on slides vs. linear-rails, normal thread-screws vs ballscrews, and steppers vs. servos
[06:07:52] <awallin> performance allways costs more :)
[06:08:02] <jthornton> the wood frame routers are all similar... you just have to decide on how you want to make the rollers and what kind of drive you want
[06:08:22] <sendoushi> already decided that for now tb6560 and nema 23 will be the way
[06:08:33] <sendoushi> later i may or may not upgrade tb6560
[06:08:48] <sendoushi> now... slides vs linear-rails?
[06:09:25] <sendoushi> (still wondering moving table vs moving gantry)
[06:09:59] <jthornton> http://www.sonsivri.to/forum/index.php?topic=33768.0
[06:10:57] <jthornton> have you established the working envelope you require to make a guitar?
[06:11:05] <sendoushi> working envelope?
[06:11:25] <awallin> linear rails look like this. it's what most mid-sized good machines use http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-pair-of-used-THK-SR15-LM-Guide-Linear-Bearing-Slide-Rail-for-CNC-Milling-Axis-/330748277974?#ht_2228wt_1135
[06:11:28] <jthornton> how big is the biggest part you want to cut
[06:11:34] <sendoushi> i think i'll go with linear-rails since are really more cheaper
[06:11:54] <sendoushi> jthornton: 45 * 34
[06:12:01] <sendoushi> (is the size of the body of my guitar)
[06:12:36] <jthornton> linear rails will make a nice stiff machine even in wood
[06:12:42] <jthornton> mm or inch?
[06:12:51] <sendoushi> awallin: http://buildyourcnc.com/step1.aspx isn't this linear-rail?
[06:12:53] <awallin> cheaper slides look like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/linear-bearing-slide-unit-2-SBR12-200mm-4-SBR12UU-linear-guide-linear-rail-/251079736513?#ht_513wt_1190
[06:12:53] <sendoushi> jthornton: cm
[06:13:34] <awallin> sendoushi: your link shows some home-made rails. THK are HiWin commercial ones would almost certainly be better.
[06:13:39] <jthornton> no that is just some bearings and junk
[06:13:42] <awallin> THK or HiWin
[06:13:59] <jthornton> might as well use drawer slides
[06:14:12] <sendoushi> awallin: still those home-made are easy to me to find. the ones you showed me are US so... really hard and expensive
[06:15:17] <awallin> sendoushi: sure, if your hand-sanding the 3D shapes of your guitarr then 0.2mm or so accuracy is all you need anyway.. but serious hobby cnc-builders aim for 0.05mm or less in alu or steel so that is another world
[06:15:36] <jthornton> that is a good style too but a bit short
[06:15:56] <sendoushi> awallin: for now... 0.2mm is wonderful for me ehe
[06:16:14] <sendoushi> i can hand-sand of course
[06:16:35] <jthornton> if your just wanting to rough out the parts the home made rails are ok but don't expect much and you won't be disappointed much
[06:16:48] <sendoushi> jthornton: i can always upgrade it later
[06:16:55] <sendoushi> since home made rails are cheap
[06:17:01] <sendoushi> i won't be crying my money
[06:18:23] <sendoushi> so getting somewhere... moving gantry is the best for me. home-made rails
[06:19:27] <jthornton> how much Z do you need?
[06:19:45] <sendoushi> what you consider Z?
[06:20:15] <jthornton> Z is the spindle axis
[06:20:35] <sendoushi> spindle?
[06:20:54] <sendoushi> so we have 3 motors
[06:20:58] <sendoushi> one for the gantry
[06:21:05] <sendoushi> other to move inside the gantry
[06:21:09] <sendoushi> and other to move the router
[06:21:12] <sendoushi> which is Z?
[06:21:13] <jthornton> spindle is what you put the cutting bit in
[06:21:27] <jthornton> spindle = router
[06:21:32] <sendoushi> so you want to know the "height"
[06:21:44] <sendoushi> well i dunno... is there much price difference or something?
[06:21:47] <jthornton> no, you want to know the height
[06:21:57] <sendoushi> i would say less than 10 cm
[06:23:14] <jthornton> so 45 x 35 x 10 is the working envelope or largest part you want to mill
[06:23:25] <sendoushi> i guess
[06:23:37] <sendoushi> maybe would be better to say 50 * 40 * 10
[06:23:42] <sendoushi> just in case...
[06:23:57] <sendoushi> well... i still don't know the size of the biggest guitar body which is ES / 335
[06:24:22] <sendoushi> http://uncrate.com/p/2010/02/gibson-1960-es-335td-guitar-xl.jpg this one
[06:25:15] <sendoushi> would i better be using http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-a-drawer-slide-CNC-machine-for-under-200/ or those home-made rails i showed?
[06:25:27] <jthornton> the logical starting point is to define the machine requirements
[06:25:45] <jthornton> only you can answer that question really
[06:25:58] <sendoushi> "The widest part of the body is 16 1/4 inches; the body height from bottom to top of either horn is a hair over 19 inches."
[06:26:15] <sendoushi> searching for the size of that 335
[06:27:18] <jthornton> if you notice the drawer slide machine is cutting foam
[06:28:18] <sendoushi> still searching for measures of the max guitar
[06:28:30] <sendoushi> http://www.guitar.com.au/guitars/electric/gibson/ES-335.html
[06:28:45] <sendoushi> 16.5" wide x 20" long x 1.75" thick
[06:29:08] <sendoushi> i don't know if the neck is bigger
[06:29:34] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: the drawer slides are terrible
[06:29:55] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: i'll use home made rails. easier to find, cheaper and enough
[06:29:59] <Loetmichel> thats not even a CNC DEMONSTRATION not to mentoin something of a "production" machine
[06:30:25] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: if you are fit with wood: try the rails i use:
[06:30:36] <Loetmichel> (searching for the photo)
[06:31:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8875
[06:31:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8881
[06:31:24] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[06:31:39] <sendoushi> i see
[06:31:48] <jthornton> Loetmichel, nice design
[06:33:00] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: hmmm harder to find that hardware
[06:33:06] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: its about the eigth iteration, it better be Cheap AND good ;-)
[06:33:24] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: every hardware sore has ground round stock
[06:33:28] <Loetmichel> and ball bearings
[06:33:31] <sendoushi> what?
[06:33:44] <Loetmichel> the rest is just some Drilling/sawing/filing
[06:33:49] <Loetmichel> store
[06:34:12] <sendoushi> do you have any plans or something?
[06:34:15] <jthornton> I like the way you support the rod with the wood backing
[06:34:18] <Loetmichel> the rails are 16mm round bar, precision ground
[06:34:31] <jthornton> sendoushi, you have the photos now
[06:34:37] <Loetmichel> and 4mm ball bearings can be bought for less than a dollar a pice
[06:34:50] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: just between my ears
[06:34:58] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: i dont have the kind of hardware stores you have
[06:35:04] <Loetmichel> never bothered to draw a plan ;-)
[06:35:13] <sendoushi> so sometimes a 4mm ball bearing is hard to find ehehe
[06:35:50] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: so go to the next sports shop and buy 6mm ball bearings fir inliners...
[06:36:00] <Loetmichel> cheap chinese ones are sufficient
[06:36:12] <sendoushi> are those from skates?
[06:36:18] <Loetmichel> yes
[06:36:27] <Loetmichel> skates have 6mm and 8mm types
[06:36:52] <Loetmichel> and the 6mm are also fitting , you just have to redesing the mount.
[06:37:04] <Loetmichel> BTW: that slide is play-free.
[06:37:51] <Loetmichel> its slightly larger than would fit normally inside the rails, so the bolts which hold the bearings ar slightly bet and act as springs
[06:37:58] <Loetmichel> bent
[06:38:00] <archivist> I wonder how long an inverter will last when it is a 1 horse inverter with a 2 horse motor on it :) but at least the mill is running again
[06:38:43] <Loetmichel> archivist: as long as the overcurrent protect is working: forever or 'til warranty ends, whatever comes first ;-)
[06:38:49] <jthornton> I'm guessing if you keep the amp draw down it might run for a while
[06:40:36] <archivist> yes no chip throwing till I get a better inverter
[06:42:36] <sendoushi> ok... now i know the rails, i know the material, the type of router and design... electronics... next step?
[06:42:51] <archivist> start making something
[06:43:05] <sendoushi> archivist: i prefer to make all the list and plans first
[06:43:13] <sendoushi> because most are going to be ordered online
[06:43:20] <sendoushi> and this way i'm cost-wise
[06:43:49] <archivist> try your local scrap yard for bits too
[06:43:49] <jthornton> you just defined the next step
[06:44:33] <sendoushi> there's no local scrap yard that's the thing
[06:44:47] <sendoushi> :s
[06:45:04] <sendoushi> i never knew why but there are not those things in portugal
[06:45:11] <sendoushi> or at least of my knowledge
[06:45:47] <sendoushi> jthornton: what about these "normal thread-screws vs ballscrews, and steppers vs. servos" ?
[06:46:01] <sendoushi> mainly the thread-screws issue
[06:46:14] <sendoushi> the other i guess it's steppers (nema 23)
[06:46:18] <jthornton> Loetmichel, have you considered slotting the top of the bearing mount so you can squeeze a bit on the rail for fine adjustment?
[06:46:52] <jthornton> ballscrews and servos are a bit out of character with a wood framed router
[06:47:08] <sendoushi> thread-scews it is
[06:47:14] <jthornton> I would not use normal "all thread" rod either
[06:47:25] <jthornton> use acme threaded rod
[06:48:19] <sendoushi> jthornton: no ebay :s
[06:49:15] <sendoushi> what about these http://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=3&_nkw=threaded%20rod&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283 ?
[06:50:10] <archivist> not good for accuracy or wear
[06:50:35] <sendoushi> is there other brand i should look?
[06:51:08] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: not necessary
[06:51:11] <jthornton> if you have to use all thread rod, what you linked use coupling nuts
[06:51:18] <Loetmichel> at least not with 4mm BB
[06:51:27] <jthornton> ok, just wondering
[06:51:32] <Loetmichel> the bolt which olds the bb will act like a spring
[06:51:48] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, jthornton was meant
[06:51:52] <jthornton> ah ok
[06:51:54] <sendoushi> ...
[06:52:06] <jthornton> Loetmichel, same fellow actually
[06:52:12] <Loetmichel> ah i see ;-)
[06:52:24] <Loetmichel> one office one workshop i presume?
[06:52:56] <Loetmichel> [13:36] <jthornton> ballscrews and servos are a bit out of character with a wood framed router <- not necessarily
[06:53:13] <sendoushi> so... about the rods...
[06:53:22] <sendoushi> what should i use?
[06:53:35] <sendoushi> i guess that is what i need to decide now
[06:54:11] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935 <- thk 20mm ails and 16,mm*4mm ballscrews ;-)
[06:54:16] <Loetmichel> +r
[06:54:18] <sendoushi> what about belt?
[06:54:54] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: belt will lenghten itself and be difficult to gear down the steppers without play
[06:55:02] <sendoushi> ok
[06:55:15] <sendoushi> so... threaded rod
[06:55:24] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: use acme rod!
[06:55:32] <sendoushi> as i said... can't get it :s
[06:55:43] <sendoushi> for that i need an european store
[06:56:19] <Loetmichel> the "normal" threaded rod is 1) to sharp and will eat the nuts in no time and 2) too much TPI so the maschine will be slow
[06:56:41] <sendoushi> it has really to be acme
[06:56:46] <sendoushi> how will i get that... :s
[06:57:48] <jthornton> acme is everywhere
[06:57:54] <Loetmichel> even the 16mm*4mm Ballscrews i had on the big machine were to fine-pitched... at about 4200mm/min was end of G0, because the ballscrews had reached critical RPM and were damn near wwiggeling themself apart
[06:57:58] <sendoushi> is it much expensive?
[06:58:28] <Loetmichel> sendoushi: in germany its called "trapezgewinde"
[06:58:41] <Loetmichel> something like "trapezoidal trhead"
[06:58:43] <sendoushi> are you from germany Loetmichel ?
[06:58:58] <Loetmichel> maybe thats more like the name you will find it in germany
[06:58:58] <sendoushi> acme thread = trapezoidal thread??
[06:59:00] <Loetmichel> yes
[06:59:08] <Loetmichel> s/germany Europe
[06:59:22] <Loetmichel> yes
[06:59:46] <sendoushi> nothing on ebay
[06:59:54] <sendoushi> http://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_nkw=trapezgewinde&_sacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=3&_odkw=%22acme%22+rod&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 just this
[07:00:46] <Loetmichel> hmm, strange
[07:01:07] <Loetmichel> i never bothered to look for it on ebay
[07:01:17] <sendoushi> do you find it in stores?
[07:02:07] <Loetmichel> because i have a shop for tools and screws and so on in my "backyard" which has round ground stock and acme thread in all (metric) variations
[07:02:32] <sendoushi> Loetmichel: this is strange but... would you be kind enough to send me? i pay of course
[07:02:37] <Loetmichel> ... and for budgtt prices: a 2m 10mm*3mm acme bar will cost me less than 10 eur
[07:02:49] <Loetmichel> IIRC
[07:02:54] <sendoushi> hm?
[07:02:59] <Loetmichel> but the nuts are steel and not really cheap
[07:03:29] <sendoushi> i have to find an european store with all
[07:03:37] <sendoushi> and then i can cross-reference with my brother's contacts
[07:03:42] <sendoushi> since he has a metal factory
[07:04:22] <sendoushi> once again i have to have a list of everything of this kind of hardware i need
[07:04:40] <sendoushi> there is no problem with mdf and stuff but this "special" hardware
[07:04:47] <sendoushi> metal hardware eheh
[07:04:47] <Loetmichel> so i made them myself, just made a mould with a short trapezodial core, mixed some PU resin with 20% Talc and done for...
[07:05:05] <sendoushi> eheh
[07:05:27] <Loetmichel> makes GREAT nuts that need no grease (self lubricatong) and are running smooth and nearly wearless ;-)
[07:06:02] <sendoushi> what would you charge me to make a "kit" for me with those things?
[07:06:14] <sendoushi> those special things that are hard to find and know about for me
[07:06:34] <Loetmichel> nothing at the moment... i am full with work until judgement day
[07:06:51] <sendoushi> judgement day is when?
[07:07:08] <Loetmichel> look in the bible ;-)
[07:07:11] <sendoushi> lol
[07:07:35] <Loetmichel> amageddon rings a bell?
[07:07:39] <Loetmichel> +r
[07:07:43] <sendoushi> not really
[07:07:47] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[07:07:48] <sendoushi> since i never cared about religion
[07:08:09] <jthornton> Loetmichel, did you mold the "nuts" around some of the acme rod?
[07:08:16] <Loetmichel> me neither, but as being an european i have had SOME religous education
[07:08:40] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: no, i made myself a short acme rod on the lathe
[07:08:42] <sendoushi> i also have but not the memory to know about it
[07:08:59] <Loetmichel> because the acme rod i am getting is rolled and has a jagged outer corner
[07:09:13] <jthornton> ah ok, what is PU?
[07:09:20] <sendoushi> i really have to get some plans to know better what i need and stuff...
[07:09:21] <Loetmichel> Poly urethane
[07:09:33] <jthornton> ok thanks
[07:09:41] <Loetmichel> google "sika G27"
[07:10:14] <Loetmichel> its a fast settting urethane resin i use for everything i have to mold
[07:10:39] <Loetmichel> relatively cheap, can be milled as easyly as air buit is a LOT more sturdy ;-)
[07:10:50] <Loetmichel> and sets in 2-5 minutes...
[07:13:23] <jthornton> I wonder if a similar product is available over on this side of the pond
[07:15:40] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: IIRC sika hase a US dependance
[07:15:43] <Loetmichel> has
[07:16:04] <jthornton> ok, thanks looking
[07:16:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, check tap plastics
[07:16:22] <Tom_itx> they sell small quantities of stuff
[07:16:29] <Tom_itx> i got some urethane from them once
[07:16:43] <Tom_itx> shore 30 iirc
[07:17:14] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/
[07:17:27] <awallin> I've only used PU-glue for gluing wood. that is nasty stuff...
[07:17:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/product/mold_making_materials/mold_making_supplies
[07:18:47] <Tom_itx> i used it for wheels but the idea is the same
[07:18:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/sumo_files/sumo_wheelmold_index.php
[07:19:03] <Loetmichel> btw: urethane resin has the tendenchy to adhere to skin even BETTER than CA!
[07:19:15] <Tom_itx> yes, use mold release
[07:19:31] <Loetmichel> i menat: HAND skin ;-)
[07:19:34] <Tom_itx> i actually had some mold release for fiberglass and it worked fine for this
[07:19:36] <Loetmichel> meant
[07:19:42] <Tom_itx> i know
[07:20:27] <Tom_itx> the only thing i should have done different but didn't have a chamber was to vacuum chamber it while it was curing
[07:20:51] <Tom_itx> they still turned out good
[07:26:59] <Tom_itx> http://www.tapplastics.com/product_applications/computer_mod_case
[07:27:02] <Tom_itx> :)
[07:27:50] <Loetmichel> *yaaaawn*
[07:28:09] * Loetmichel gets a triple espresso...
[07:29:09] <Loetmichel> i have pulled an all-nigghter yesterday. Worked 'til 0700 at home for a fried, thenn brushed my theeth, put some new clothes on and drove to the company...
[07:29:31] <Loetmichel> now ists 14:18 ofer here and the hole i am falling in gets bigger by the minute...
[07:29:38] <Loetmichel> over
[07:39:05] <alex_joni> http://youtu.be/B0JOlF1ADd8
[07:42:54] <mrsun> alex_joni, that sounds just like one of the songs blackmores night does
[07:42:57] <mrsun> in some parts
[07:43:02] <mrsun> but cant remember the name
[07:43:06] <mrsun> there it ... damn
[07:48:05] <mrsun> blackmores night fires at midnight maybe... :P
[07:48:32] <mrsun> maybe ... its something familiar with the song atleast =)
[07:48:37] <mrsun> who stole from who i dont know :P
[07:49:32] <mrsun> no ... it doesnt match ... hmm wth =)
[07:49:40] <Thiel> hi all i need to run my big mashine with one axis of 'B' what do i need to do in hal to get the Axis not to Home and work for MDI
[07:49:52] <rooi-oog> hi all
[07:49:57] <Thiel> better i think in INI
[07:51:03] <alex_joni> mrsun: it's supposed to be some french medieval song
[07:51:35] <mrsun> alex_joni, im sure it can be, dont know where richie gets his material from ... i suppose its also from other songs etc =)
[07:51:45] <mrsun> so they can be very similiar =)
[07:52:09] <mrsun> the tune at 1:40 is what gets me realy going and i remember it STRONGLY from blackmores night but cant remember what song =)
[07:53:24] <Thiel> Thanks got it Vel to 0 and ofset home sequence -1
[07:58:01] <alex_joni> mrsun: http://youtu.be/5Np305zRGA4
[08:04:19] <sendoushi> back
[08:05:40] <Thiel> hi sendoushi how is the tb6560 developing
[08:05:55] <Thiel> did you manage to get it
[08:06:07] <sendoushi> Thiel: still making a list of what i need. now hardware-wise
[08:06:37] <jdhNC> good luck with that!
[08:06:39] <Thiel> i told you to use the epson steppers for better performance
[08:07:05] <Thiel> the tb6560 works perfect with this lowcost high tourche ones
[08:07:15] <Thiel> it gives you 120RPM
[08:07:35] <Thiel> at TR12x4 this is 500mm/min at no loss
[08:07:49] <Thiel> at 0.01
[08:09:42] * Loetmichel is impersonating Robinson crusoe atm... waiting for friday ;9
[08:10:24] <sendoushi> Thiel: nema 23. its hard to find here scrapyards to check for epson printers and stuff. easier to buy the motors
[08:11:07] <Thiel> you said that you can get them on ebay i asked to check the ebay input
[08:11:14] <sendoushi> ebay input?
[08:11:57] <Thiel> 23LM-C355-44W
[08:12:07] <Thiel> for 14Eur eatch
[08:12:08] <chron0> I've been thinking in the same lines the last weeks, due to more environmental protection and recycling and laws there are almost no scrapyards in germany anymore, there used to be hundreds of them just a stonesthrow away and they really try to stop you when you try to remove old prnters from the trash collecting containers :(
[08:15:10] <Thiel> sendoushi: with TR 12x4 spindel cheep and good you are done in legth from 50cm to 4m
[08:15:54] <sendoushi> the spindel i have to check later
[08:16:01] <sendoushi> making that decision the last step
[08:21:52] <Thiel> spindel Tread for movement is the first
[08:22:23] <Thiel> Trapezional not standard or do you go with ballbearing
[08:24:03] <Loetmichel> chron0: how big a stepper do you need?
[08:24:15] <Loetmichel> i have some scrapped recently
[08:25:24] <chron0> Loetmichel: I'm currently planning with the nanotec ST6018M3008-B in dual config for the y-axis, x and z are not quite clear yet since I want the gantry set up first
[08:26:55] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[08:27:11] <Loetmichel> tell me a torque and size
[08:27:44] <chron0> but in general I hack a lot of projects and there often are projects where it's perfectly sane to use old/scrap material to get somewhere but it gets harder all the time :/
[08:27:56] <Loetmichel> i have a bunch oth these floating around: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248
[08:28:22] <alex_joni> http://youtu.be/Z-N7Oq8_fOw
[08:28:34] <Loetmichel> they are 7,5° e.g.: 48 fullsteps/rev
[08:28:59] <chron0> for this setup i don't want to go the "cheapskate" approach, hence the nanotec steppers.... 1.5Nm/4.2A NEMA23 56mm Length Axis on both sides (for the synchro belt)
[08:29:00] <Loetmichel> and about 1 to 1.5A /phase
[08:29:29] <Loetmichel> ok, i thougt because of "scrapjaard epson printer steppers"
[08:30:46] <chron0> Loetmichel: cheers for thinking of that, but no, not in this case, my wishes are too specific to go with hack-a-tec :) But there are many more projects that could use scrap material but get hindered by an ever decreasing availability....
[08:31:35] <chron0> I needed some steel plate rests to make a flange for my little 25ccm 300W generator project...
[08:32:16] <chron0> it was just too noisy so I need to build my own muffler, old car parts would be a great source to get all material I need but I don't even find one scrapyard for cars in munich...
[08:41:48] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/photography/01339594016
[08:45:47] <jdhNC> that first pic is 6 axis?
[09:03:10] <alex_joni> jdhNC: 5
[09:03:25] <alex_joni> jdhNC: it's without the skirt in the second picture
[09:04:56] <chron0> alex_joni: but isn't the table itself moveable (first picture) - so the arm has 5 axis + plus the table?
[09:06:01] <alex_joni> chron0: yes, including table it's 6
[09:06:47] <sendoushi> i already asked before but... has anyone already read "build your own cnc machine" from 2009 ? i'm thinking on building the one they talk about.
[09:16:24] <Jymmm> I need a clean, burr free 0.030" to 0.035" slot about 1" long in 0.125" thick aluminum and no mill available. Any suggestions?
[09:16:56] <Jymmm> slot can be longer if needed
[09:18:46] <JT-Shop> drill and file
[09:19:44] <Jymmm> 1) Do they have files that thin? 2) Wouldn't that leave rough edges/ serations?
[09:20:49] <cpresser> that could be a job for 'eroding'
[09:20:51] <JT-Shop> depends on your skill at filing
[09:21:18] <cpresser> or: dont create your slot by removing material; rather add two pieces so that they form a slot
[09:22:03] <Jymmm> cpresser: I was pondering that; just not sure how to "adjust" the slot.
[09:22:33] <Jymmm> the two pieces need to be parallel
[09:22:59] <cpresser> the german word for the thing you need is 'lehrenband'. let me search a translation for you...
[09:23:03] <JT-Shop> shim stock
[09:23:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, ty. I have some too
[09:23:32] <cpresser> http://fixx-werkzeug.de/bilder/produkte/gross/Lehrenband-C-Stahl-06mm-Breite-25mm.jpg
[09:23:51] <JT-Shop> shim stock
[09:23:51] <cpresser> yep, thats the word i was searching fort
[09:23:58] <cpresser> -t
[09:26:27] <Jymmm> Dremel cut off wheels are 0.028" thick; And with the "accuracy" of a Dremel, that might come out to 0.030" or so.
[09:28:47] <Jymmm> Not sure how smooth/clean of an edge it'll leave in aluminum though.
[09:36:41] <jdhNC> There are several thicknesses of dremel cut-off wheels
[09:37:04] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I've only seen one - ever
[09:38:00] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-409-Cut-off-Wheels-thick/dp/B00004UDGX
[09:42:35] <Jymmm> I found 0.040" but that's a bit too wide http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-420-Heavy-Cut-Off-Wheels/dp/B00004UDH3/ref=sr_1_56?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1339597694&sr=1-56
[09:42:45] <Jymmm> jdhNC: thanks for the info =)
[09:44:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, *if* I were to use a file/cutoff wheel, I can smooth out the faces with emory cloth!
[09:46:36] <Loetmichel> chron0: hrhr, a little genset project is duie here, too.... but MUCH smaller
[09:46:43] <Loetmichel> i need about 100W
[09:46:54] <Jymmm> I still need to find teflon/fiberglass hookup wire though, can't find it anywhere (locally)
[09:47:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 100W generator?
[09:47:15] <Loetmichel> so i will use a Brushless motor and a 0,99ccm methanol motor... and the whole genset has to be lighter than 300 grams
[09:47:31] <Loetmichel> 'cause it has to fly on a quadrocopter
[09:47:49] <Loetmichel> Jymmm. correct
[09:48:09] <chron0> Loetmichel: ha, lol you want to have that on a quad, interessting approach, that might give great airtime, when you get it to hover :)
[09:48:15] <Jymmm> gas powered RC copter?
[09:48:41] <chron0> my setup goes at about 3kg, but with 4 stroke 25ccm
[09:48:48] <Loetmichel> IF the genset stay lighter than 300 grams it WILL hover with 100W ;-)
[09:49:06] <Jymmm> and whats the electricity for?
[09:49:07] <chron0> also on a torcmann brushless motor in a dynamic y/delta config depending on use case
[09:49:16] <chron0> for the motors of the quad of course
[09:49:27] <Jymmm> then whats the gas motor for?
[09:49:30] <chron0> to get the pid/kalman regulator fast enough to keep it flying :)
[09:49:36] <chron0> to make eletricity
[09:49:44] <Jymmm> no other purpose?
[09:50:09] <chron0> well, create annoying noise maybe, if you're looking for other purposes :)
[09:50:16] <Jymmm> k
[09:50:34] <chron0> thats why I need to build a new muffler... but loetmichel may have better answers, I'm just guessing here
[09:50:40] <Loetmichel> http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/224700/ASP-V-MOTOR-1CC/1210010&ref=list
[09:51:22] <chron0> well, that depends on how much meth its going to need and how much the tank + sprit will weigh
[09:51:30] <Loetmichel> i will use this motor, and a 250W brishless with a set of fast supressor diodes over the bodydiodes of the ESC mosfets
[09:51:45] <Loetmichel> which act then as a 3 phase rectifier
[09:51:59] <Loetmichel> and a small 3s900mAh lipo for buffering
[09:52:12] <chron0> hmmm, you will use the esc controller as a rectifier?
[09:52:20] <Loetmichel> more or less
[09:52:25] <chron0> afaik the only have two inputs
[09:52:29] <Loetmichel> the esc controller to start the engine
[09:52:43] <Loetmichel> and the "bodydiodes" act as a rectifier
[09:52:49] <Loetmichel> but are too slow
[09:52:53] <chron0> ah, you want to use the brusheless motor as a starter and a generator combined?
[09:52:54] <Loetmichel> BTDT
[09:53:12] <Loetmichel> it'll be a "startgenerator" in this config
[09:53:25] <chron0> yeah, go for good mosfets ones, otherwise you'll loose so much in the v drop
[09:53:48] <chron0> i'm currently simulating a 3-phase active synchro rectifier with mosfets to get better results with less los
[09:53:50] <Loetmichel> no, even the good escs have crappy body diodes
[09:54:06] <Loetmichel> tehy are a byproduct so no specs given
[09:55:01] <Loetmichel> but if you set fast recovery schottky diodes in parallel to every body diode you get a nice and nearly lossless rectifier
[09:55:05] <Loetmichel> three phase
[09:55:10] <chron0> there were some issues on the net regarding the dual use, and many people feared that a standard bl motor will not have enough torque/precision in the slow rpms needed to start the engine... I'm really looking forward to see your results
[09:55:23] <Loetmichel> done that already for a e-bike
[09:55:53] <Loetmichel> chron0: the engine has less than a ccm
[09:56:13] <Loetmichel> it will start HAPPILY witrh a 250W brisless with low rpm/V
[09:56:17] <Loetmichel> brushless
[09:57:12] <Loetmichel> but having some 1,6ccm engines here i know: they go throgh the expensive fuel like crazy
[09:57:17] <chron0> so I can basically take "any" ESC, add some fast schottkys to the body diodes and will have a start controller / more or less active rectivier in one piece?
[09:57:17] <chron0> is that the break energy conversion feature which makes that possible?
[09:57:17] <chron0> brake
[09:57:39] <Loetmichel> i've used it as such
[09:57:50] <Loetmichel> but with a modified firmware in the controllers Avr
[09:58:55] <Loetmichel> this particual project is a bet: to be able to create a gernator with enough watts to hover and not weighting more than a 5Ah 3S lipo ;)
[09:59:09] <Loetmichel> AND have mor power stored in the fuel than the lipo
[09:59:45] <Loetmichel> a friend say: impossibel, i say: "ill try!
[09:59:53] <Loetmichel> impossible
[10:04:46] <chron0> please, by all means, go bust that myth and if you do, please document it somewhere online, so that other can pick it up
[10:04:46] <chron0> than we might have our own army of flying drones, to be tasked with whatever purpose we deem worthy, muahahaha :)
[10:12:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: If you have a MUCH longer run time using fuel than a battery, I don't think weight is much of an issue
[10:14:25] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever seen these used OTHER than for cigars? I'm looking for some of the cheap disposable kind and all I'm finding are the fancy ones domestically http://www.asia.ru/images/target/photo/51479980/Aluminum_Cigar_Tube.jpg
[10:15:20] <Jymmm> length can be 3-8", doens't have to be a screw cap
[10:15:39] <Jymmm> I just can't thing of any other name they go by
[10:15:54] <Jymmm> test tubes bring up the plastic/glass ones
[10:18:23] <Loetmichel> i would try aluminium cigar tubes ;-)
[10:18:41] <Loetmichel> let me gues: you are buiilding a stirling?
[10:19:01] <Jymmm> no, just storage
[10:20:22] <Loetmichel> btw: if you happen to have a ductile 0,2mm aluminium sheet youcam do your own tubes out auf the sheet by metal spinning
[10:50:22] <Gromits> I was trying to get a video camera working in a tab in Axis and can't get the DRO to come up in the camview window. The (oldish) instructions say to install camunits-plugins-emc but when I try to in Synaptic Package Manager it complains that it cant resolve a depenency.
[10:50:49] <Gromits> Any ides how to get the dro in there?
[10:51:58] <jdhNC> fix the dependency?
[10:53:08] <jdhNC> and... if mittens wins, what will you say about his spending when he outspends everyone else?
[10:53:19] <jdhNC> <nevermind>
[10:53:25] <Gromits> how to fix dependency?
[10:53:37] <jdhNC> what does it say?
[10:54:30] <skunkworks> Gromits: I think psha[work] has some work in renaming to linuxcnc...
[10:56:04] <skunkworks> * or someone else ;)
[11:07:22] <Connor> jdhNC: Question from last night: 2500 RPM, 40IPM
[11:09:46] <Gromits> Is psha still working on this stuff? I haven't heard from him in a long while...
[11:10:32] <Gromits> Heh, I see he left a few seconds after you said he has work to do :-)
[11:11:02] <skunkworks> :)
[11:14:12] <Jymmm> skunkworks: you see your tool changer?
[11:18:27] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:36:54] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/156244-anyone_using_scottas_hy_vfd.html
[11:37:06] <skunkworks> Jymmm: ?
[12:09:59] <Tom_itx> mmm. itty bitty slots and cigar cases. what's Jymmm up to now?
[12:10:15] <skunkworks> logger[psha]_:
[12:10:16] <logger[psha]_> skunkworks: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-13.html
[12:10:55] <Jymmm> skunkworks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_qHR_H_2cg
[12:11:37] <Jymmm> skunkworks: CNC Pr0n =)
[12:12:00] <Jymmm> skunkworks: And the Ron Jeremy of CNC Pr0n... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MFRPGf4JDk&feature=related
[12:13:07] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: stirling maybe?
[12:13:53] <gene__> Hey Guys, that gcode.lang from Nick works great here!
[12:14:05] <_abc__> Hello. I installed lts 10.04 on 2 pcs today. Only difference I can see is, the one where I put it on a reiserfs partition installs fine but does not load / install rtai modules. Install was from the live cd. Is reiser not supported?
[12:16:04] <_abc__> Errors are all related to rtai module and shm permissions.
[12:17:13] <skunkworks> Jymmm: that is cool - the chain is impressive
[12:17:56] <syyl_> Jymmm
[12:18:04] <syyl_> that video is close to epic ;)
[12:18:37] <Jymmm> told ya it's pr0n =)
[12:18:47] <syyl_> i knew that video
[12:18:56] <syyl_> but its great to watch over and over ;)
[12:19:53] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Did you see Ron Jeremy too?
[12:20:19] <skunkworks> yes
[12:20:22] <Jymmm> k
[12:29:23] <_abc__> Okay it was the lapic problem again. Wow the installation is smooth but hey there are always details to edit. Im okay with that.
[12:38:37] <psha> enother try
[12:38:38] <psha> another
[12:38:44] <psha> any camview-emc user around?
[12:39:34] <psha> logger[psha]_: .
[12:39:35] <logger[psha]_> psha: Log stored at http://psha.org.ru/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-06-13.html
[12:40:26] <IchGuckLive> psha: does this logging also store the devels channel
[12:41:02] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive where is that?
[12:41:29] <IchGuckLive> Tom_itx: the internal development channel
[12:41:48] <Tom_itx> i know but what's the # address?
[12:42:00] <IchGuckLive> -devel
[12:44:50] <Tom_itx> i could start
[12:46:29] <skunkworks> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkkuieFV7Vo
[12:47:02] <Tom_itx> IchGuckLive, just started
[12:47:11] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDo1MZEnfM&feature=plcp
[12:47:37] <Tom_itx> won't do you much good right now though
[12:48:04] <_abc__> Okay when I run axis+emc2 i get the time overrun warning and see dmesg. There is indeed a small overrun, but smaller than my BASE_PERIOD. Running the latency test shows 0 overruns. Do I treat this as a warning? Is there a way to make it not come up?
[12:49:38] <_abc__> I could read up on this and likely will but a quick yes/no from the channel people would be nice.
[12:50:13] <andypugh> It would be nice to be able to keep the over-run notification on, but by default you only get one warning.
[12:50:14] <skunkworks> increase your base period?
[12:50:44] <andypugh> So you don't know if it is perhaps an init-time one-off, or is actualy happening frequently.
[12:51:05] <andypugh> One option is just to ignore it and see if good parts come out the end..
[12:51:05] <Tom_itx> i presume it's ok to log the dev channel?
[12:51:20] <andypugh> psha and mah do
[12:51:30] <Tom_itx> i don't see their bots there
[12:51:38] <Tom_itx> oh maybe so
[12:51:39] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:52:05] <skunkworks> mah is missing at the moment
[12:52:24] <Tom_itx> well i added mine. it strips out all the join / parts
[12:53:17] <mhaberler> no he aint
[12:53:45] <psha> IchGuckLive: shure, just ask at -devel channel or go to http://psha.org.ru/irc/
[12:54:03] <_abc__> Hah i doubled the period and still got the warning.
[12:54:37] <_abc__> I have onboard graphics and selected vesa. Can that be it?
[12:56:50] <_abc__> Okay halving feeds made the warning not appear
[12:57:43] <mhaberler> she's baack
[12:57:51] <psha> hey, he's he!
[13:00:10] <psha> Gromits: here?
[13:00:15] <psha> i've updated packages to new name
[13:25:46] <jd896_laptop> hi all
[13:26:46] <andypugh> _abc__: Halving feeds making the problem go away makes no sense at all. Is is possible that your basae period change didn't stick the first time?
[13:34:41] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Tu_zoO828&feature=fvwrel <-- hmm that cant be very good for the teeth on the blade can it? :)
[13:42:27] <archivist> it is running a bit fast for a little blade like that
[13:42:28] <andypugh> It's nicer to lift on the return, but with the crank arm in the right place you get that anyway.
[13:42:56] <archivist> and varaible stroke he claims
[13:43:12] <andypugh> His crank-arm is exactly coaxial to completly eliminate that helpful effect :-)
[13:43:14] <mrsun> andypugh, hmm how do you get that from the crank in the right place? :)
[13:43:25] <mrsun> oh better if its offset up or down ?
[13:43:56] <andypugh> mrsun: Yes. But which depends if you plan to cut on the pull or the push
[13:44:07] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B8vWu_8foaA#! omg look at that weld job :P
[13:44:57] <mrsun> was thinking of building one of those little hacksaws, do not have place for a big coldsaw .. tho the little bandsaws you can buy arent much bigger :P
[13:45:26] <andypugh> The first one is almost a direct copy of: http://www.lathes.co.uk/taylor/page11.html
[13:45:50] <mrsun> looks like it =)
[13:46:14] <archivist> please dress ones bird shit before putting it on youtube
[13:46:36] <mrsun> =)
[13:53:15] <archivist> mrsun, that reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFZ__4t7ck
[13:56:48] <jd896_laptop> lookin at those welds he should give up cause he isnt ever goint to lay a weld down with a stick set and have the slag curl off as proper welders do
[13:59:42] <archivist> the first day your slag curls is wonderful
[13:59:46] <mrsun> archivist, hehe likes how bubba did it =)
[13:59:55] <mrsun> thats how someone who knows what he does does it :P
[14:00:25] <archivist> very good video quality too, easy to see the weld
[14:03:00] <jd896_laptop> deffinatly is archivist
[14:03:56] <archivist> hmm 40 years since I learnt, the first day or three are demoralising when the trainers wells all curl up
[14:10:02] <archivist> andypugh, btw managed to get the 2hp motor on the mill running off a 1hp vfd :)
[14:19:09] <andypugh> It's probably all you need, really.
[14:21:01] <Loetmichel> archivist: thats harmless
[14:21:25] <Loetmichel> i had a 11kw grinding wheel running with a 2,3kw VFD...
[14:21:42] <Loetmichel> had to set the rampup/rampdown to 2 minutes, though
[14:21:57] <Loetmichel> or it would go in overcurrent ;)
[14:23:17] <A1Sheds> anyone have an opinion on Dayton or Westward drill presses?
[14:24:34] <Connor> okay, so, options on using SHCS counter bores vs endmill of the correct size?
[14:27:57] <skunkworks> Connor: maybe for hand drilled projects.. But from my experience the clear hole for the conterbore needs to be so much larger than I like. (I use a mill)
[14:28:07] <skunkworks> circular interp the clearance.
[14:30:41] <Connor> I would link to it. but, cdctools.com sucks.. you can't direct link to a product??
[14:30:46] <Connor> www.cdctools.com
[14:30:49] <Connor> search for counter bore.
[14:31:03] <Connor> those are the ones I'm talking about.
[14:31:22] * skunkworks hears Arnold saying 'sarah connor'
[14:31:43] <Connor> eh?
[14:35:20] <skunkworks> sorry - for some reason when I see Connor - in my mind - Arnold from terminator is pronouncing it in my head.
[14:35:30] <Connor> Ah.
[14:35:35] <Connor> Come with me if you want to live!
[14:36:12] <DJ9DJ> lol
[14:40:01] <IchGuckLive> by B) O.o
[15:00:43] <mrsun> hmm... shrinkfit tolerances for aluminium ...
[15:00:52] <mrsun> im thinking pulleys =)
[15:03:32] <archivist> press cold rather than shrink, I would think aluminium is a bit soft and plastic when warm
[15:04:21] <mrsun> archivist, but like 100 degrees C cant be that bad for the alu can it? :)
[15:04:58] <archivist> will it expand enough at 100
[15:05:15] <mrsun> do not know =)
[15:05:38] <mrsun> never shrinkfitted anything =)
[15:07:37] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQlHicPaKSg seems they can shrink fit impellers atleast
[15:07:41] <archivist> I have done press fits
[15:10:40] <Jymmm> has anyone done any rifling by chance?
[15:11:10] <skunkworks> like rifling through my desk?
[15:11:16] <Jymmm> barrel
[15:11:22] <skunkworks> ;)
[15:14:40] <mrsun> maybe locktite ...
[15:14:48] <mrsun> is that any good for locking pulleys to shafts? :)
[15:16:50] <mrsun> i guess as it will be all "homemade" i could just drill a freakin hole throught the shaft and put in a pin :P
[15:17:03] <archivist> make a taper lock bush then you can get it off easily later
[15:18:01] <mrsun> will be a huge taperlock .. its for a step pulley ... 4 steps
[15:18:48] <archivist> two smaller ones each end
[15:19:03] <mrsun> and feels like taperlocks has an inherant instability built in if not done perfectly ... like having a dividing head to space the bolts etc
[15:19:29] <mrsun> and ive got no four jaw chuck so hard to turn the pulley over to do the other side
[15:19:33] <archivist> make sure you make them self extract
[15:20:46] <anonimasu> tho, taperlocks are self centering..
[15:20:52] <anonimasu> if you do them right
[15:21:06] <mrsun> yes ... but when making them right i need the tools to make them right :P
[15:21:19] <mrsun> and i do not have that, so i want to make the pulley in one setup
[15:21:35] <anonimasu> we use a big one at work for holding a gear loaded with 3KNm of torque.
[15:28:03] <anonimasu> i plan on taperlock for my small mill for ballscrew to motor couplings
[15:38:16] <mrsun> gah, so hard to know what the original size of the pulley on the lathe is ....
[15:38:19] <mrsun> (the one on the lathe
[15:38:21] <mrsun> )
[15:38:32] <mrsun> i guess i need to take it off and realy measure the hell out of it
[15:40:39] <mrsun> i guess i could use a vfd insted, but then i wouldnt have the grunt a motor has when its geared way down with first pulleys then with backgear :P
[15:46:47] <anonimasu> grunt is overrated :)
[15:47:03] <anonimasu> <- drills 59mm holes regularily
[15:47:54] <mrsun> with what spindle power? :P
[15:48:01] <syyl> i remember back to my aprenticeship
[15:48:15] <syyl> as the boss showed me how to drill a 40mm hole
[15:48:32] <syyl> without pre drilling a smaller hole :D
[15:48:44] <syyl> i was just like ":O"
[15:48:45] <mrsun> not to good :P
[15:48:54] <syyl> na, its no problem
[15:49:08] <syyl> heavy machine and go fot it
[15:49:14] <mrsun> as you got very little cutting capability at the center of the drill it is :P
[15:49:19] <mrsun> atleast in my world
[15:49:23] <syyl> yeah
[15:49:29] <mrsun> alot of frictional heat :P
[15:49:30] <syyl> but you can thin out the centre of a drill
[15:49:32] <mrsun> but yes, big machine :P
[15:49:41] <syyl> and with a big machine + powerfeed
[15:49:43] <syyl> pff :D
[15:54:17] <mrsun> and i need to get the motor seperated from the lathe, the ones i bought them from had made some angle iron sticking out from the bed that the motor is mounted on .. every vibration goes straight into the whole machine
[15:57:18] <andypugh> 8i20s mounted: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/S1ZJCNqTQftxZanNiNeKYdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:57:35] <andypugh> And I break mrsuns rule of the internet with
[15:57:38] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jGa3mIgyUThN-t9JniruXtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[15:58:34] <andypugh> Which I am rather pleased with as it is the first time I have made something looking like an actual weld in aluminium. Even if it is rather ugly.
[15:59:40] <anonimasu> mrsun: 11kw
[15:59:55] <mrsun> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/spatialmind/timingbeltdrive008.jpg thats how the grunt should be transfered :P
[16:00:22] <mrsun> but i will stick with V pulleys as that will be plenty enough
[16:00:43] <anonimasu> slipping is good sometimes, it saves thigns.
[16:00:45] <anonimasu> things.
[16:02:01] <syyl> i looks almost like a weld, andypugh
[16:02:04] <syyl> :)
[16:02:07] <andypugh> mrsun: http://www.inductionheating.jp/PDFs/shrinkfitcalcs.pdf
[16:02:32] <archivist> andypugh, the thing with aluminium welding is....has it penetrated, can look nice on the outside and its skin deep
[16:02:59] <andypugh> Yes. In fact it melted through on the back side.
[16:03:12] <andypugh> You know, the side I am not showing ;-)
[16:03:18] <archivist> good sign :)
[16:03:48] <andypugh> It's the first time I have seen Alu properly wet and run for me.
[16:04:03] <mrsun> anonimasu, yes, but slipping when taking light cuts is not :P
[16:04:23] <archivist> it is very easy for it to melt and run out
[16:14:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:17:00] <Jymmm> Any reason why a smooth bore would be more regulated than a rifled bore ?
[16:17:29] <Jymmm> I would think the opposite would be true.
[16:18:44] <syyl> what?
[16:18:52] <Jymmm> accuracy
[16:19:37] <syyl> that a smooth bore gun is more accurate?
[16:19:59] <Jymmm> no, that a rifled bore would eb more accurate
[16:20:28] <syyl> thats what we were told back then
[16:20:58] <Jymmm> So, again.... Any reason why a smooth bore would be more legally regulated than a rifled bore ?
[16:21:06] <syyl> ah
[16:21:09] <syyl> now i got it :D
[16:21:21] <syyl> maybe because you can shoot buckshop from a smooth bore?
[16:21:25] <syyl> buck shot
[16:21:30] <anonimasu> looks like anything gun related is regulated like hell.
[16:21:50] <syyl> just as an idea
[16:22:11] <Jymmm> Well, there's a loophole that the ATF permits, but only on rifled bores. If it's a smooth bore, it's regulated.
[16:23:22] <syyl> in german weapon law, theres also an interesingt loophole
[16:23:36] <syyl> a gatling gun is not covered as a automatic weapon
[16:23:58] <Jymmm> syyl: but you guys can't have any guns or ammo anyway
[16:24:10] <syyl> not right
[16:24:32] <Jymmm> ?
[16:24:41] <syyl> if you are member of a gunclub for a specific time
[16:24:48] <syyl> you can own your own weapons
[16:24:49] <Jymmm> 1yr +
[16:24:54] <syyl> i think more
[16:25:04] <Jymmm> but you STILL have to keep track of your ammo
[16:25:13] <syyl> not realy
[16:25:49] <syyl> for example, if i buy the ammo at the gun range
[16:25:52] <syyl> no one keeps track
[16:26:09] <Jymmm> the dealers have to submt ammo sales annually
[16:26:58] <syyl> thats for sure
[16:27:04] <Jymmm> Sad that I'm actually looking at firerm laws in other countries =)
[16:27:11] <syyl> ;)
[16:27:20] <syyl> i dont bother with it
[16:27:27] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrnyc03C2Q
[16:27:29] <syyl> as when i want to go shooting
[16:27:33] <syyl> i lend the gun at the range
[16:27:40] <Jymmm> borrow?
[16:27:52] <syyl> uhm yes
[16:27:57] <syyl> thats the right word, sry :D
[16:28:02] <Jymmm> np
[16:29:04] <syyl> they dont take a fee on the gun, but you have to buy the ammo there
[16:29:15] <syyl> and its a bit more expensive than in a normal shop
[16:30:01] <Jymmm> Yeah, same here when you rent a gun at the range. They want you to use their ammo.
[16:30:49] <syyl> i think its ok, as you dont have to bother with the gun afterwards, like cleaning
[16:31:31] <Jymmm> Well, I have ammo for firearms that I don't even own =)
[16:31:36] <syyl> :D
[16:35:27] <andypugh> This was a bit wierd. http://youtu.be/misu8O_ufpk
[16:42:00] <JT-Shop> crap, I'm back to "File not open" when I try to call a sub from the mdi ...
[16:45:05] <_abc_> Jymmm: you are suspect of being a terrorist aide :)
[16:45:16] <Jymmm> ?
[16:45:20] <_abc_> I think that they consider all freenode users terrorists until proven otherwise
[16:45:39] <Jymmm> _abc_: what are you taking about?
[16:45:52] <_abc_> Does anyone *else* run his linuxcnc mill pc through ssh tunnelled X11 as I just did? :)
[16:45:59] <_abc_> Jymmm: it was a bad joke, and sarcasm
[16:46:27] <Jymmm> _abc_: I understand that, but I was wondering where the terrorist part comes into the joke?
[16:46:47] <_abc_> Jymmm: it comes from reading a lot of DHS foot@mouth stories. Note: I am in Europe.
[16:47:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is more of a terrorist than me, he built a BIG ASS GUN =)
[16:47:03] <_abc_> It also comes from reading theregister.co.uk
[16:47:34] <_abc_> Hush don't tell anyone that the tube drills are hard enough to be used as gun barrells out of the factory door
[16:47:49] <_abc_> Next you'll need a license to buy them
[16:48:12] <Jymmm> _abc_: but are they rifle bored is the question =)
[16:48:31] <Jymmm> If not, how do you get them to be =)
[16:49:18] <_abc_> They are not rifle bored so they make perfect *mortar* tubes. Heh.
[16:49:22] <_abc_> Think outside the box.
[16:49:36] <syyl> or a shotgun barrel
[16:49:54] <Jymmm> _abc_: I'm think more like this, the insert... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrnyc03C2Q
[16:50:16] <_abc_> Anyway I don't deal with such things normally so, again, does anyone run his/her mill (noisy etc) remotely using ssh -f ... ?
[16:50:32] <_abc_> I just did and the experience is good, the gui runs on the remote machine and is much faster than normal
[16:50:33] <Jymmm> _abc_: But to LEGALLY use flare gun + insert, the barrel has to be rifle bored.
[16:50:40] <_abc_> Well half of it runs on the remote machine...
[16:50:47] <_abc_> Jymmm: really?
[16:50:57] <_abc_> I thought flare barrels are smooth?
[16:51:22] <_abc_> Shows how little I know about guns heh
[16:51:34] * _abc_ did not army service - in several countries :/
[16:51:39] <Jymmm> _abc_: flare gun barrels are, but the .22lr INSERT isn't for legal purposes http://www.kennesawcannon.com/images1/batf.pdf
[16:51:53] <Jymmm> _abc_: http://www.kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberinsert.php
[16:52:07] <Jymmm> _abc_: you have to watch that video to understand
[16:52:16] <_abc_> Okay, I believe you.
[16:52:29] <_abc_> Is the idea that the rifling wastes a lot of energy from the 0.22?
[16:52:38] <Jymmm> hang on
[16:52:51] <_abc_> Just a sec I need to get a glass of umm liquid
[16:53:51] <_abc_> okay I will go soon, it is 1AM here
[16:54:25] <Jymmm> _abc_: well read that PDF whenever, additionally.... http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html
[16:54:44] <_abc_> Hm thanks, maybe some other time.
[16:55:18] <Jymmm> So basically, I want a METAL flare gun, then make/buy inserts for it =)
[16:56:21] <_abc_> Guns are overrated, we live in the era of missiles. They come in every size and shape and make normal tubes somewhat outdated.
[16:56:31] * _abc_ leaves
[16:56:38] <Jymmm> lol
[16:57:01] <Jymmm> You tell the Momma bear charging at you that and see what she thinks about it =)
[16:57:33] <andypugh> I think she would be fairly easily distracted by a shoulder-fired sidewinder.
[16:58:00] <Jymmm> I happen to have two of those in my pocket !
[16:58:32] <andypugh> And I thought you were just glad to see me
[16:59:10] <Jymmm> We were deer hunting once, so had high powered rifles with us. BUT... in a clearing we saw two cubs playing, we knew momma was around "somewhere" and got the hell out of there as fast as we could!
[16:59:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: lol
[16:59:54] <Jymmm> Remember kids... Don't mess with Momma!
[16:59:59] <andypugh> Seems wise, apart from anything else I doubt you really want to be killing any bears you don't need to?
[17:00:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, I don't like hunting for sport PERIOD.
[17:01:03] <Jymmm> Food, sure. Never for the sack of sport.
[17:01:06] <Jymmm> sake
[17:01:20] <andypugh> If you don't eat it, I am not sure it is hunting?
[17:01:38] <andypugh> It's more along the lines of recreational killing.
[17:01:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, some have a fucked up view and value of life.
[17:02:29] <Jymmm> andypugh: That is the ONLY reason I don't like cats... they hunt for sport.
[17:03:03] <andypugh> Yes. And they leave unidentifiable body parts where bare feet can find them.
[17:03:31] <Jymmm> But my hatred is not limited to cats, but ANY being that hunts for sport, be it 2 or 4 legged.
[17:03:32] <Gromits> psha: thanks for updating linuxcnc/emc packages but there is still a problem. I will send email to the mailing list...
[17:04:26] <JT-Shop> damm this is frustrating...........
[17:04:36] <Jymmm> andypugh: For all intent and purposes, I actually prefer non-lethal weapons.
[17:05:34] * Jymmm would hand JT-Shop a beer, but he probably has better stuff than I could offer.
[17:05:39] <andypugh> Jymmm: I don't want to worry you, but that opinion pushed to the limit to achieve internal consistency is what made me decide to be vegetarian.
[17:06:09] <andypugh> psha, he not there.
[17:07:01] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, if I had to kill my own food, I probably would be a vegan 100% of the time. But I suspect so would a majority of the people.
[17:07:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: So far this month, I had a pepperoni pizza. But that's the only meat thus far.
[17:08:14] <andypugh> Indeed. Need new shoes, kill a cow. Though presumably you get used to it, as folk used to have to do exactly that.
[17:08:39] <andypugh> Pepperoni pizza was the hardest thing to say godbye to.
[17:08:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, hmmm. so do you have/own any leather products then?
[17:09:44] <Jymmm> belt? knife shife? boots? gloves?
[17:09:48] <andypugh> Yes. I have a full set of motorcycle leathers. If I needed to replace them I would buy second-hand. But I hope not to need to. I was carnivorous when I bought them.
[17:10:37] <Jymmm> andypugh: Leather belt is difficult to replace, but leather gloves but be damn near impossible
[17:11:18] <Jymmm> all the synthetic gloves are just crap.
[17:15:08] * JT-Shop gives up for the day and wanders off
[17:16:04] <andypugh> Luckily the boot maker I favour can make Lorica versions if my current ones run out of resole life. http://www.altberg.co.uk/Web/motorcycle.jsp
[18:12:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://k2cnc.com/shop/proddetail.asp?prod=RM-B-Colt
[18:12:53] <r00t4rd3d> im getting that
[18:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> soon as its back in stock ffs
[18:14:50] <jdhNC> two #10's seems kind of weak
[18:16:12] <jdhNC> anyone bought any helium lately?
[18:16:25] <andypugh> $54 for a too-thin chink of metal with a hole in it?
[18:16:43] <jdhNC> c'mon, it has 3 holes.
[18:17:26] <jdhNC> I guess 4 if you count the big one.
[18:17:44] <andypugh> Why isn't it twice as high?
[18:17:58] <jdhNC> looks like there would be plenty of room on the router
[18:18:36] <andypugh> Indeed. And it is clamping plastic, more area has to be good.
[18:20:25] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: You might be getting the impression we think it is over-priced an under-designed?
[18:21:18] <r00t4rd3d> also out of stock, something must be good about it.
[18:22:07] <r00t4rd3d> k2 isnt legit?
[18:23:03] <andypugh> I don't undrstand the question
[18:25:36] <r00t4rd3d> was more of a statement
[18:28:45] <jdhNC> it is probably fine for cutting plastic/wood
[18:29:54] <r00t4rd3d> So I ordered a special contractors pencil and aluminum pencil armor. They didnt send me the pencil.
[18:30:03] <jdhNC> all of their other mounts look better than that one,.
[18:30:37] <jdhNC> maybe 'better' isn't the right word.
[18:34:48] <r00t4rd3d> more awesome?
[18:34:51] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: If you were in the UK I would just suggest you send me some metal and I would make the holes in it. That one just looks liable to lack X-axis stiffness to me.
[18:35:13] <r00t4rd3d> ill give it some viagra
[18:35:55] <r00t4rd3d> i get special offers for the stuff daily
[18:36:48] <andypugh> I will be making something rather like their Hitachi mount tomorrow, for connecting my controller pole to the side of the mill. I anticipate mainly using the lathe.
[18:37:12] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Do you have a lathe?
[18:37:22] <r00t4rd3d> im not set in stone on a Bosch Colt yet but i like the price
[18:37:37] <r00t4rd3d> no lathe
[18:37:49] <r00t4rd3d> I use my drill press as one on occasion though
[18:37:58] <andypugh> I have heard good things about them. But that mount is a goodly proportion of the price of the router
[18:38:28] <r00t4rd3d> well i dont want a shitty mount
[18:38:28] <jdhNC> what's a controller pole?
[18:38:38] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, andypugh, was anything resolved with the live CD install issue?
[18:38:50] <andypugh> It's a pole with a CNC controller on top.
[18:38:51] <Tom_itx> i noticed some chatter in -devel about it
[18:39:18] <r00t4rd3d> why do you mount your controller on a pole?
[18:39:29] <Tom_itx> why not?
[18:39:46] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes, you need to either be off the internet, or have less than 4GB RAM installed. Otherwise the liveCD installs a large-memory kernel from the net..
[18:40:16] <andypugh> _Very_ random
[18:40:25] <Tom_itx> i'll try unplugging the cable and doing the install again then just to see
[18:40:34] <andypugh> That would be fun
[18:41:02] <Tom_itx> ?
[18:41:11] <r00t4rd3d> i just did a 2.5 install with 4gig of mem without net access and it worked
[18:41:23] <r00t4rd3d> like a week ago
[18:41:45] <r00t4rd3d> so the no net thing should work
[18:42:25] <r00t4rd3d> i have to manually install my wireless drivers
[18:42:35] <r00t4rd3d> from source
[18:42:39] <r00t4rd3d> fun fun
[18:43:20] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: This: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N7Z88ai8cR7012cckm4ihdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink needs to sit in a convenient place adjacent to this: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oO2xAcfqpCn7CWRlUOs8ydMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink so my plan is to mount it on top of this: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jGa3mIgyUThN-t9JniruXtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:45:20] <r00t4rd3d> reading that about gave me a seizure
[18:45:25] <Tom_itx> if you do that will it not install network drivers?
[18:45:57] <r00t4rd3d> i have to black list the included one cause ubuntu devs are shitforbrains.
[18:46:25] <Tom_itx> ok here goes nuthin
[18:46:28] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea if you have more than 3.2Gb of ram unplug from the internet before installing from the LiveCD
[18:46:29] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[18:47:12] <Tom_itx> that's a rather silly quirk
[18:47:15] <JT-Shop> now if I can just finger out why I can't run a subroutine from MDI on the plasma but I can on the BP
[18:47:44] <Tom_itx> does the BP face east?
[18:47:48] <JT-Shop> ubuntu kindly removes the real time kernel and all things depenent on it for your
[18:47:54] <JT-Shop> no, west
[18:48:01] <Tom_itx> thars yer problem
[18:48:03] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:48:10] <r00t4rd3d> im sure there is a command line switch to install without searching for updates.
[18:48:39] <r00t4rd3d> not that unplugging your net is a big deal
[18:49:21] <Tom_itx> knowing is the big deal
[18:50:30] <JT-Shop> well if you think of anything else besides turning the plasma monitor to face east let me know
[18:50:44] <JT-Shop> i'm out of guesses dammit
[18:51:08] <Tom_itx> you compared your ini and hal files?
[18:52:28] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hang it fromt eh ceiling facing downward
[18:52:40] <Tom_itx> you gave me your plasma setup to get mine goin and it works fine
[18:52:54] <Tom_itx> i'd compare the two setups to make sure there isn't some suttle difference
[18:53:24] <Jymmm> Think it's time to dump ubuntu for debian instead?
[18:53:39] <Tom_itx> emc run on debian?
[18:53:45] <Jymmm> yeah
[18:53:57] <Tom_itx> you have to build it manually don't you?
[18:54:30] <Jymmm> No, I mean as the new released standard base distro
[18:54:31] <andypugh> LinuxCNC on RISCOS on RaspberyPi. It's the future :-)
[18:54:50] <Tom_itx> if you could get a Pi first
[18:54:51] <Jymmm> No, I mean as the new released standard base distro for LinuxCNC
[18:54:56] <Tom_itx> naw
[18:55:12] <Jymmm> No more ubuntu dpenpedancy bullshit
[18:56:47] <Dave911> Andy.. do you actually have a RaspberryPI ? I'm on a waiting list.
[18:57:53] <r00t4rd3d> lol, ubuntu is debian
[18:58:02] <r00t4rd3d> same dep bs
[18:58:30] <Dave911> Does anyone have a Raspberry Pi yet?
[18:58:44] <Jymmm> No, Ubuntu is Debian Testing for one, and two Ubuntu does their own voodoo for the added dependancies.
[18:59:12] <r00t4rd3d> u crazy!
[18:59:15] <andypugh> I am waiting too, but I have friends with them.
[18:59:43] <andypugh> For example: http://ian-nic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/pi-server.html
[19:02:26] <Dave911> Interesting ... thanks..
[19:04:49] <JT-Shop> I just opened up the axis sim on the Bell and calling subs works fine
[19:05:20] <Tom_itx> well son of a gun. it installed with the cable unplugged
[19:05:52] <JT-Shop> ok, you got that fixed now fix my broken plasma LOL
[19:06:17] <Tom_itx> plasma???
[19:06:24] <Tom_itx> i thought it was the bp
[19:06:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What did you do that broke it? Edit config? Update? soemthign else?
[19:07:33] <Tom_itx> but wait... you gave me your setup from the plasma for MDI subs and they work fine
[19:08:09] <JT-Shop> everything at once
[19:08:16] <Jymmm> ah
[19:08:40] <JT-Shop> axis sim which creates linuxcnc/nc_files and configs works
[19:08:55] <JT-Shop> must be something hard coded about the path somewhere
[19:09:12] <JT-Shop> axis sim works fine on the plasma
[19:28:46] <JT-Shop> it's something in the config for sure, I just converted a 5i20 config to 5i25 and it works...
[19:29:03] <JT-Shop> maybe over the next few weeks I'll get the plasma to work
[19:33:20] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you want the ones i backed up?
[19:33:29] <Tom_itx> from your site?
[19:33:35] <Tom_itx> or are they not what you're running
[19:40:14] <Tom_itx> meh, the one i have is for the 5i20 anyway
[19:40:25] <Tom_itx> it may have settings you need though
[19:42:29] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: that is what I'm running
[19:51:43] <Tom_itx> the home mdi works here
[19:57:25] <JT-Shop> well it looks like OPEN_FILE="" IS THE KILLER
[19:57:36] <Tom_itx> woops
[19:57:56] <andypugh> I can see how it could be. But it really shouldn't be
[19:58:12] <JT-Shop> time for chow and cry in my wine for all the time spent on this silly problem
[19:58:42] <Thetawaves> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
[19:58:42] <andypugh> Cry around the wine, it won't improve it.
[19:59:30] <JT-Shop> if I open a file, any file it works but a file must be open... that is why it worked sometimes and not others!
[19:59:42] <JT-Shop> somabitch
[19:59:58] <Tom_itx> wtf
[20:00:02] <andypugh> Thetawaves: That's OCD-level neat wiring in that box. I like it.
[20:00:12] <JT-Shop> ain't what I said
[20:00:24] <Tom_itx> :)
[20:01:05] <Tom_itx> so we must remember to open a file here, unplug a cable there, pull some ram....
[20:05:32] <andypugh> I wonder how many people have downloaded the LiveCD, failed, and given up?
[20:05:48] <Thetawaves> andypugh, read his pages on transformers and then read the one on thermal design, and then read all the rest of his shit, because he's amazing
[20:07:47] <andypugh> The OPEN_FILE thing is not going to catch the newbs. That can have a lower priority, but I suspect that a large number of folk will think "I want fast machining on a fast machine, so lets have lots of RAM"
[20:08:46] <roycroft> ram is overrated :)
[20:09:39] * roycroft thinks linuxcnc would run nicely on an old vme bus sparc, as those machines had such fast interrupt handling
[20:09:48] <roycroft> but who's gonna port it?
[20:11:30] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves, your pipes below frostline?
[20:11:41] <Thetawaves> not mine
[20:11:45] <Thetawaves> some chilean EE
[20:11:58] <Thetawaves> as he's in chile, they don't have much for freezing temperatures
[20:12:11] <Tom_itx> what about you?
[20:12:32] <Thetawaves> alaska has a very bad ice problem.
[20:13:18] <andypugh> Chile has in spots. It has ski resorts. But probably not where he is
[20:13:35] <Tom_itx> is this install in alaska or chile?
[20:13:43] <andypugh> Chile
[20:13:49] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[20:15:03] <Thetawaves> you would have to have a huge lake up in the mountains to run a microturbine year round here
[20:15:56] <andypugh> His bridge is less cool than the one that takes the water to my parents' village. That has a about an 8' arched dry-stone bridge over a stream, with the stone-built culvert buried in it. It looks like a random pointless foot-bridge about 2' wide.
[20:17:58] <Thetawaves> hah
[20:18:03] <Thetawaves> drinking water or power?
[20:18:09] <andypugh> Drinking
[20:18:17] <Thetawaves> cool
[20:19:48] <Valen> crap this guy is hardcore
[20:19:54] <andypugh> It's quite funny. EU regs say that the water has to be tested, and every year it comes back as unfit to drink. But that's it. So the residents carry in drinking it (for free).,
[20:20:04] <Tom_itx> i'm not even halfway thru the page yet
[20:20:08] <Valen> why is it unfit
[20:20:19] <Valen> his neighbours are hadcore too
[20:20:29] <andypugh> Manganese and faecal coliforms.
[20:20:38] <Valen> they dug what looks like 200-300 meters of trench by hand
[20:20:59] <andypugh> (they say it should be boiled, which will solve half the problem)
[20:21:14] <Valen> RO filter *might* get the magnese
[20:21:22] <Valen> would get the bugs out
[20:21:33] <Valen> but eh if they are immune to it feh
[20:21:49] <Valen> they should be wary with visiting guests though
[20:21:56] <Valen> anybody with a compromised immune system
[20:22:14] <andypugh> The coliforms are probably because the culvert is just stone slab, two dry-stone walls, and a slab on top, and it runs through cow fields.
[20:23:42] <andypugh> In the time my folks have been there there (25 years) have been 4 deaths. They were all over 90.
[20:25:05] <Valen> just sayin, it could bother people who arent used to it
[20:25:19] <andypugh> My folks also deliberately seek out (and pay extra for) unpasteurised milk from a local farm. (because they prefer the taste).
[20:26:11] <andypugh> Valen: You might be right. We have no evidence of an actual problem. And the water tastes lovely.
[20:26:37] <Valen> the standards for drinking water are really rather high
[20:26:40] <r00t4rd3d> beaver feaver
[20:27:40] <ReadError> cutting yet r00t4rd3d?
[20:29:40] <r00t4rd3d> no
[20:29:55] <andypugh> Back to Chile. The horse really does seem like appropriate technology.
[20:30:39] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna buy a good router and mount
[20:31:50] <r00t4rd3d> k2 just sent be a quote for the bosch colt mount, 70 shipped. The router is only 83
[20:33:54] <andypugh> Be cheeky and ask. It's not like you don't know folk with CNC machines.
[20:39:41] <r00t4rd3d> Registered : Jan 10 15:40:00 2005 (7 years, 22 weeks, 2 days, 09:47:00 ago)
[20:48:11] <r00t4rd3d> 150 days after this weekend nicks will me mine!
[20:50:15] <ReadError> -NickServ- Registered : Jul 06 00:46:12 2004 (7 years, 49 weeks, 2 days, 00:53:11 ago)
[20:53:54] <elmo40> anyone use autodesk inventor?
[20:54:15] <elmo40> me mine? :-P
[20:54:30] <alex4nder> yoh
[20:55:10] <elmo40> just wondering, is it for motion? like simulating things?
[20:55:43] <roycroft> it's somewhat like solidworks
[20:55:59] <elmo40> isn't autocad like solidworks?
[20:56:04] <roycroft> not at all
[20:56:23] <roycroft> autocad is 2d, with some 3d capability
[20:56:36] <roycroft> but it's tedius to use it for 3d modelling
[20:56:41] <roycroft> tedious
[20:57:29] <roycroft> i've been using autocad for many, many years, but i'm considering switching to solidworks, as i'm not doing as much civil work as i used to
[20:57:48] <elmo40> thanks.
[20:57:50] <roycroft> i let my autocad support lapse, and upgrading autocad would now cost me about as much as purchasing solidworks
[20:57:59] <elmo40> I have been a solid works guy for years. around 10 or so.
[20:58:18] <elmo40> just wondering why I see more job adverts for Inventor instead of Solidworks
[20:58:22] <roycroft> i've played with it a bit, and it's impressive
[20:58:30] <roycroft> because autocad used to own the cad market
[20:58:37] <elmo40> LONG ago!
[20:58:44] <elmo40> and I don't see how they ever did, tbh.
[20:58:47] <roycroft> and when they came out with inventor they convinced their loyal users to migrate to that instead of jumping ship
[20:58:53] <elmo40> Solid Edge was great ;)
[20:59:04] <roycroft> they did back in the '80s because it was the only general-purpose cad software around
[20:59:22] <Valen> I use rhino ;->
[20:59:25] <ReadError> solidworks is the easiest IMO
[21:00:02] <roycroft> i found solidworks quite intuitive
[21:00:07] <ReadError> very
[21:00:10] <roycroft> moreso than any other 3d cad application i've used
[21:00:16] <ReadError> indeed sir, indeed
[21:00:30] <roycroft> if i had $8k to spare right now i'd likely jump on board
[21:00:37] <roycroft> but i don't
[21:00:50] <roycroft> and actually, even if i did, i have other things that would be higher priorities
[21:00:57] <roycroft> other things to get, that is
[21:02:06] <roycroft> autodesk financed my purchase of autocad over three years at zero percent
[21:02:08] <roycroft> that was nice
[21:02:15] <ReadError> how much did it cost?
[21:02:16] <roycroft> i had to purchase support at the same time
[21:02:26] <roycroft> $4k for the software, and $1.2k/year for support
[21:02:30] <ReadError> jeez
[21:02:37] <roycroft> and solidworks starts at $4k, iirc
[21:02:46] <roycroft> $8k is the pro version with all the bells and whistles
[21:03:27] <roycroft> it was like $200/month for three years for autocad
[21:03:45] <roycroft> kind of like a car payment on a used car
[21:04:04] <roycroft> my biggest issue with solidworks is that it only runs on windows
[21:04:15] <roycroft> when i purchased autocad it only ran on windows, and i never liked that
[21:04:29] <roycroft> but i doubt i'll be buying the mac version
[21:04:32] <Dave911> I use Inventor once in a while
[21:04:33] <roycroft> what i have works for me for now
[21:04:40] <roycroft> 2008 is the latest version i got
[21:04:51] <roycroft> it's just a pain to do anything 3d with it
[21:05:25] <Dave911> Autocad 3D is a waste of time
[21:05:37] <roycroft> with solidworks, it's sketch, extrude, assemble
[21:05:39] <roycroft> repeat all day long
[21:05:48] <roycroft> nice and easy
[21:05:56] <Dave911> Inventor and Solidworks are very similar
[21:06:06] <roycroft> if i bought it i'd probably not even have to bother taking any classes on it
[21:06:16] <roycroft> just a good book and burn some time
[21:06:20] <Dave911> But different enough that switching would be a pain
[21:06:32] <roycroft> i got an inventor trial license a while back
[21:06:43] <roycroft> inventor uses autocad terminology, and looks more like autocad
[21:06:47] <roycroft> so that part was nice and familiar
[21:07:01] <roycroft> but solidworks was a lot easier for me to pick up, and i say that as a long-term autocad user
[21:07:13] <Dave911> If you have a kid in college or know of one, they can buy Inventor school edition cheap.
[21:07:20] <roycroft> both software suites are quite capable, however
[21:07:32] <roycroft> yes, but one cannot use that version commercially
[21:07:44] <roycroft> it would be good to learn on
[21:08:11] <roycroft> anyway, it's nice that both products are out there
[21:08:17] <Dave911> right.. but if you just want to use some software for solid modeling for garage projects.. you aren't commercial anyway
[21:08:20] <roycroft> and my motto is "different strokes for different folks"
[21:08:26] <roycroft> yes
[21:08:31] <Dave911> They both work well
[21:08:33] <roycroft> for garage projects it's perfectly acceptable
[21:08:54] <roycroft> speaking of garage projects
[21:09:05] <roycroft> my gf has a water cooler that is leaking, and she's quite distressed about it
[21:09:12] <roycroft> it's in my garage, having arrived there yesterday
[21:09:22] <Jymmm> roycroft: water cooler?
[21:09:41] <roycroft> one of those things you put a big inverted bottle of water on and it makes the water cold
[21:09:50] <Jymmm> ah
[21:10:00] <roycroft> i had best figure out the source of the leak and repair it
[21:10:07] <roycroft> so she will quite stressing
[21:10:12] <Jymmm> wasn't sure if "water cooler" was Brit slang for toilet or something =)
[21:10:16] <roycroft> no
[21:10:18] * Valen is forseeing silicon in your future
[21:10:20] <roycroft> that would be the loo
[21:10:24] <Jymmm> ah
[21:10:25] <Valen> or the bog
[21:10:28] <roycroft> not that i'm british
[21:10:34] <roycroft> (and not that there's anything wrong with that)
[21:10:42] <Jymmm> so whats toodle loo then?
[21:10:51] <Valen> goodbye
[21:10:58] <Valen> one word
[21:11:03] <Dave911> get lost! ;-)
[21:11:16] <Jymmm> "cyashitface?"
[21:11:25] <roycroft> it means "good day for now - i'll meet up with you in an airport bathroom stall soon"
[21:11:34] <Jymmm> ah, gotcha
[21:11:40] <roycroft> "i'll be the one moving my left foot over into the next stall"
[21:11:49] <Jymmm> TMI
[21:12:06] <roycroft> talk to larry craig about that
[21:12:34] <Jymmm> so those cooler have a metal tub in them usually, so it has to be a fitting somewhere I guess
[21:12:42] <roycroft> yes
[21:13:07] <roycroft> she sold a sofa recently, and when the purchasers were removing it from her family room they bumped it into the water cooler
[21:13:12] <roycroft> so they knocked something loose
[21:13:21] <Jymmm> those bastards!
[21:13:21] <roycroft> it should be easy to fix, once i find the source of the leak
[21:13:31] <roycroft> there are lots of plastic bits in it
[21:13:33] <Jymmm> Blue Dye #4
[21:13:36] <roycroft> but i have good glue
[21:13:48] <roycroft> i've used food coloring to locate leaks before
[21:13:51] <roycroft> it works quite well
[21:13:58] <Jymmm> =)
[21:13:59] <roycroft> i usually use red
[21:14:04] <roycroft> but blue would also work
[21:14:15] * roycroft has no real preference
[21:14:25] <Jymmm> Red Dye #4 is suppose to be toxic =)
[21:14:36] <roycroft> i have both red and blue dykem in my shop
[21:14:49] <andypugh> elmo40: I was elsewhere
[21:14:59] <andypugh> I use Inventor
[21:15:02] * roycroft toodles (but not to the loo)
[21:15:16] <andypugh> I used to use it as a full-time job
[21:15:22] <Jymmm> roycroft: if you do, you clean it up!
[21:15:25] <ReadError> anyone anodize ?
[21:15:32] <Valen> done a little of it
[21:15:44] <andypugh> ReadError: Danimal does, not seen him for a while
[21:16:34] <andypugh> elmo40: I really like Inventor, far more than anything else I have tried, it's really very good,
[21:18:29] <andypugh> It is especially good at solving mechanisms. You can assemble components and they will articulate like the real thing. I have nver crashed that solver, whereas I have crashed the Alibre solver with 4 spherical joints (not an entirely fair comparison given the price difference)
[21:18:48] <elmo40> ill watch some youtube vids on it and see how they play with it
[21:18:56] <Valen> that would be handy
[21:19:04] <Valen> also parametric stuff would be nice too
[21:20:46] <andypugh> But, if you are spending your own money, Alibre is about 70% of Inventor for 5% of the price
[21:21:08] <archivist> mechanisms in solidworks are very good, does gear mates so gearboxes and clock mechanisms can be modelled
[21:21:29] * Jymmm lol @ archivist =)
[21:21:50] <andypugh> As does Inventor. I suspect that none of them dare lack a feature the other has
[21:46:21] <A1Sheds> http://www.old-woodworking-tools.net/rockwell-no-15017-drill-press.html found this today for $90
[22:18:26] <r00t-Shed> ReadError
[22:18:27] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Psyco is not available (performance will probably suffer slightly)
[22:18:27] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Enabled 4 parallel local processes
[22:18:27] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 WARNING Failed to locate the fonts directory 'fonts' below '['/usr/lib/pymodules/share', '/usr/local/share/pycam', '/usr/share/pycam']'. Falling back to '/usr/share/librecad/fonts, /usr/share/qcad/fonts'.
[22:18:27] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 WARNING None of the fallback font directories (/usr/share/librecad/fonts, /usr/share/qcad/fonts) exists. No fonts will be available. Please install 'qcad-data' or 'librecad-data' if you need fonts.
[22:18:29] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Imported STL model: 839 vertices, 0 edges, 1444 triangles
[22:18:31] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Successfully converted SVG file to EPS file
[22:18:33] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO Successfully converted EPS file to DXF file
[22:18:35] <r00t-Shed> 23:05 INFO DXFImporter: Imported DXF model (2D): 608 lines / 14 polygons
[22:18:37] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 INFO Toolpath generation time: 0.118066
[22:18:39] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[22:18:43] <r00t-Shed> 23:07 INFO Toolpath generation time: 0.120581
[22:18:45] <r00t-Shed> 23:07 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[22:18:47] <r00t-Shed> shit
[22:18:49] <r00t-Shed> sry
[22:18:51] <jdhNC> indeed.
[22:19:06] <r00t-Shed> i only had one highlighted
[22:19:14] <r00t-Shed> so i thought it would only copy on
[22:19:15] <r00t-Shed> e
[22:19:26] <r00t-Shed> 23:06 ERROR Failed to generate toolpath: No part of the contour model is within the bounding box.
[22:19:44] <r00t-Shed> pycam, anyone know how to fix that?
[22:40:03] <r00t4rd3d> i quitted