#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-08

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[01:55:08] <ScribbleJ> So OK, when you have to change tools manually, how do ya'll make sure it's positioned right?
[02:03:00] <Jymmm> 0,0,0,0
[02:03:42] <Jymmm> Move XY to 0,0
[02:03:53] <Jymmm> Have Z at 2
[02:03:57] <Jymmm> Change tool
[02:04:06] <Jymmm> Adjust tool to 2
[02:04:26] <Jymmm> Hit start
[02:04:26] <ScribbleJ> OK
[02:04:32] <Jymmm> Grab Beer
[02:04:41] <ScribbleJ> OK
[02:04:50] <ScribbleJ> I think I was thinking it was more complicated than it is.
[02:05:02] <ScribbleJ> I don't have to change the X/Y coords after toolchange, just Z
[02:05:46] <Jymmm> If you do, jsut adjust back to 0,0
[02:06:10] <Jymmm> Thats the purpose of mving xy to 0,0 in case somethign fucks up
[02:06:33] <Jymmm> maybe you hit the wrong button, etc
[02:07:16] <Jymmm> just have a constant reference point, even if it's just mentally
[02:07:37] <Jymmm> just be sore to make it consistant and dont be lazy about it
[02:07:44] <Jymmm> s/sore/sure/
[02:11:25] <ScribbleJ> hrm
[02:11:30] <ScribbleJ> Now that I think about it
[02:12:05] <ScribbleJ> If i use tool1 for clearing and tool 2 for finishing, it doesn't even have to be perfectly aligned, just aligned so it's within the limits of the clearing tolerance.
[02:13:16] <Jymmm> No, because your gcode is going to compensate for a finishing pass, ot could potentially
[02:13:20] <Jymmm> or
[02:13:40] <archivist> depends how you change tool and if you set tool offsets in the tool table
[02:14:05] <Jymmm> plus any tool wear.
[02:19:01] <ScribbleJ> I clearly have a lot to learn.
[02:19:16] <Jymmm> me too
[02:19:39] <Jymmm> (really)
[02:20:26] <Jymmm> Heh, I need an AB Dick 360 to take apart =)
[02:21:08] <Jymmm> That is such a great printer
[02:22:24] <Jymmm> you could easily print currency with it =)
[02:37:58] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[02:39:44] <Loetmichel> *yaaaaawm* ... to watch DS9 'til 4:00 when i have to be at work at 08:00 wasnt the brightest idea... ;-)
[02:41:49] <Loetmichel> <- rubs the sleep out of his eyes and asks the front desk secretary for a triple espresso ;-)
[02:47:45] <Loetmichel> ... who happens to be a mechanical engineer (dipl.Ing) and doubles as our phone operator and secretary of the boss also ;-)
[03:12:51] <mrsun> hmm, oil for the spindle of the lathe ?
[03:13:06] <Jymmm> bacon grease
[03:13:13] <mrsun> using gear oil for mopeds atm ...
[03:13:18] <mrsun> or engine oil or whatever its called =)
[03:13:27] <mrsun> seems to work, no wear in the bushing as of yet
[03:13:31] <mrsun> but doesnt feel right :P
[03:15:54] <mrsun> SAE80 ... :P
[03:18:00] <mrsun> or something like that :P
[03:21:20] <archivist> probably too thick , spindle oil is often thinner
[03:22:04] <archivist> bearing will get warm due to the oil viscosity
[03:25:33] <archivist> but I admit nearest unlabelled engine oil gets used here
[03:27:20] <DJ9DJ> moin
[03:29:58] <mrsun> archivist, bearing havent gotten hot yet atleast =)
[03:30:56] <mrsun> OKQ8 Haydn ISO VG 10 <-- is what i read is recomended on a page ... but its in 20L packages .... and that hurts my economy :P
[04:53:03] <r00t4rd3d> wood
[04:54:20] * archivist wraps up the wood in paper
[04:54:29] <r00t4rd3d> http://firstpersontetris.com/
[09:12:33] * skunkworks buys the cheapest non-detergent engine oil also..
[09:13:09] <skunkworks> for most oiling applications. Also gets mixes with WD-40 for lite machining..
[09:57:50] <FredrikHson> do anyone have any idea why this might have happened? http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1685/errorolw.jpg
[09:58:23] <FredrikHson> have run that program before before i reinstalled with a newer version
[09:59:14] <archivist> you seem to have lost some steps
[09:59:51] <FredrikHson> i would think that but i don't see how
[10:00:19] <FredrikHson> its not like i was close to the endstops or anything like that
[10:00:58] <archivist> running at accelerations and speeds too close you your limits maybe
[10:01:08] <archivist> to your
[10:01:13] <FredrikHson> nope same as before i reinstalled
[10:01:29] <archivist> reinstalled what
[10:01:36] <FredrikHson> the entire system
[10:01:46] <FredrikHson> ran some ancient version before
[10:02:04] <FredrikHson> anyway i have done a simpler pcb between this at the same speeds with this version
[10:03:10] <FredrikHson> any chance that the timing values could be put off by the screen saver or something?
[10:03:25] <Connor> Screen saver?
[10:03:28] <FredrikHson> i really should turn that thing off next time i go out there
[10:03:30] <Connor> Dump that.
[10:03:31] <micges> FredrikHson: you've reinstalled what? linuxcnc or ubuntu?
[10:03:38] <FredrikHson> both :P
[10:03:55] <micges> did you checked latency-test on reinstalled system?
[10:04:16] <FredrikHson> yes and it spiked way past any usable values but runs usually fine on the defaults
[10:04:27] <FredrikHson> since i don't actually use the computer for anything else
[10:05:24] <micges> if it's spiked then there is rt stability problem
[10:05:34] <micges> you're using lpt ?
[10:05:39] <FredrikHson> yes
[10:06:17] <micges> so probably you're seeing spikes results on this board
[10:06:48] <FredrikHson> it would be a rather large spike to be 5mm wrong and only once
[10:07:15] <pcw_home> Only long enough to stall on a slew
[10:07:59] <pcw_home> doesnt take much
[10:08:34] <micges> hi Peter
[10:08:48] <FredrikHson> going to go check if i didn't already turn off that blasted screensaver not that it was any issue on the older version
[10:09:23] <pcw_home> Hi Micges
[10:10:16] <micges> FredrikHson: study this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting
[10:14:00] <pcw_home> micges: I got the 6I25 flash via bridge program working so even a 6I25 with a blank EEPROM can be initialized/recovered (though normally you would use the 5I25 program as it is much faster)
[10:15:11] <micges> great
[10:15:43] <FredrikHson> ok only a blank screen screensaver and normal jitter of 9k and 250k when i opened the screensaver settings
[10:16:36] <micges> FredrikHson: how fast did you run this board program?
[10:17:39] <FredrikHson> 700ish i think
[10:17:53] <FredrikHson> i know i can run 850 without problems
[10:18:06] <micges> mm?
[10:18:08] <FredrikHson> topping out at like 1000 .. i think that was it
[10:19:37] <pcw_home> mm/min?
[10:20:16] <FredrikHson> yes
[10:20:17] <micges> with that spike there will be 3mm error
[10:21:01] <micges> so that spikes are problem
[10:21:43] <FredrikHson> the problem then is where the hell do the spikes come from
[10:22:15] <FredrikHson> running the jitter test now and after a few mins it shoots up to 250k from being stable at 7-9k
[10:23:18] <pcw_home> what motherboard?
[10:25:17] <FredrikHson> its a lifebook e7010 laptop
[10:26:54] <archivist> laptops have powere management to keep the processor cool and save battery, they are bad for good realtime
[10:28:38] <FredrikHson> and is usually turned off when the power cord is plugged in but went in and disabled it in the bios anyway now
[10:29:00] <FredrikHson> but i doubt that will be any different with the spikes
[10:29:41] <micges> in 8.04 all power management was diasabled in rt kernel
[10:30:20] <micges> in 10.04 there are few minor leftovers, so maybe this is problem
[10:31:41] <FredrikHson> that could have something to do with it even if all the settings where off other than the blank screensaver
[10:31:46] <micges> and my experience with laptops was that most of them doesn't work at all
[10:32:02] <FredrikHson> nope the cpu performance bios thing did nothing as i suspected
[10:32:32] <FredrikHson> well this has worked with the old whatever the version number was
[10:33:04] <FredrikHson> still got the hdd from that just would have to tweak my python code for the jog pendant to work with that tho
[10:45:37] <FredrikHson> ok found the spikes in the wiki and looks similar so i guess i have to do what that thing says then
[10:48:17] <IchGuckLive> hi all i try to update my linuxcnc
[10:49:21] <IchGuckLive> im on lucid no realtime i did ppa"deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid master-sim" into synaptic paket source
[10:49:42] <IchGuckLive> reloaded and update
[10:50:21] <IchGuckLive> this gave me the "2.6.0-pre0-3028-g394be3e" im missinf axis-foam to test
[10:50:49] <IchGuckLive> isent this into master ?
[10:56:58] <micges> IchGuckLive: probably foam configs were not added to deb file
[10:57:42] <IchGuckLive> is it in deb-src
[10:57:58] <IchGuckLive> or only into 2.5 maybe
[10:58:50] <IchGuckLive> it is so confusing to me the hole buildbot side what to find in whitch ppa
[11:01:05] <IchGuckLive> also in my local git compile ther wars a axis-foam no its not there O.O
[11:01:42] <IchGuckLive> this is shit so i lost the hole system for foam by updating to master
[11:02:00] <IchGuckLive> i will go back to 2.5 and see if it works fine again
[11:04:04] <IchGuckLive> do i need to unistall linuxcnc first
[11:04:50] <FredrikHson> micges: managed to get rid of the spikes using http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues :D
[11:05:04] <FredrikHson> or at least i think i did going to let the latency test run for a while now
[11:05:14] <micges> FredrikHson: great
[11:05:49] <IchGuckLive> FredrikHson: copy large files >100MB around
[11:06:06] <FredrikHson> i don't have large files lying around :P
[11:06:26] <FredrikHson> and as long as it can run perfectly without doing anything else then i am happy with that
[11:06:43] <IchGuckLive> SMI takes affect if the HDD is in use
[11:07:22] <IchGuckLive> if you use Tooltable you will be not perfect if HDD is going up
[11:07:35] <IchGuckLive> so test on HDD traffic
[11:07:37] <FredrikHson> using tool 1 for everything :P
[11:07:50] <IchGuckLive> NO CRC in use
[11:07:54] <FredrikHson> haven't got a toolchanger so why bother with toollengths
[11:08:24] <FredrikHson> but sure i have a movie on my usb stick so copying that to the hd
[11:09:30] <FredrikHson> getting numbers of 11-16k now and when just doing the test and nothing else 7-9k
[11:09:37] <FredrikHson> but no more 250k spikes
[11:11:35] <FredrikHson> had the base period set to 20k apparently before so "should" be fine now but only one way of finding out for sure
[11:12:03] <IchGuckLive> go for 25k if you only use Steppers
[11:12:10] <IchGuckLive> on the parport
[11:13:41] <FredrikHson> btw where do i change that in the ini file diretly so i don't mess up my other settings from running the stepgen wizzard
[11:14:11] <IchGuckLive> if it is on 100000 and 1MIo its ok
[11:15:10] <FredrikHson> for the servo and base periods?
[11:15:16] <IchGuckLive> yes
[11:15:27] <FredrikHson> ok good set at those already
[11:16:24] <FredrikHson> i should do one thing while i have the laptop inside here already
[11:16:51] <IchGuckLive> stepconf dont regonise this at all
[11:16:52] <FredrikHson> reprogram my jog pendant for the 4th speed mode to be set to the velocity mode instead of pos
[11:20:20] <absinthetized> hi there
[11:20:27] <IchGuckLive> B)
[11:20:37] <absinthetized> would like to know if anyone here has experience with the mesa 7i43 card
[11:20:45] <absinthetized> the one driven by usb/parport
[11:20:45] <jdhNC> I have one.
[11:20:51] <absinthetized> GREAT!
[11:21:10] <absinthetized> I'm going to buy one of them but I'm not really sure about a couple of things...
[11:21:13] <jdhNC> mine is a non-USB one though.
[11:21:45] <jdhNC> unless you really want the pport one for some reason, you might be happier with a PCI 5i25
[11:22:17] <absinthetized> jdhNC: well pci is dyeing and 5i25 here in europe is more expensive than 7i43
[11:22:28] <absinthetized> an has a lot of i/o not required by my app
[11:23:08] <absinthetized> the doubt is: I've not seen any base thread setting for steppers... do mesa card have on board hw timing?
[11:23:26] <jdhNC> no base thread for mesa, the fpga does the step timing
[11:23:58] <absinthetized> ok and is it fast enough? I mean... currently we have a prototype driven by a soft timing with jitter at 20000
[11:24:04] <mozmck> pci is dying but you want a parport attached board?!?
[11:24:07] <IchGuckLive> absinthetized: im in germany do you got the card on the internal parport i advise to use a pci parport extension card
[11:24:13] <absinthetized> is it as fast as this
[11:24:17] <absinthetized> sorry
[11:24:27] <pcw_home> PCI is in lots of new motherbards
[11:24:28] <absinthetized> is 7i43 as fast as my soft timing?
[11:24:43] <pcw_home> 25 MHz max step rate
[11:24:48] <absinthetized> the idea was to by the usb one
[11:25:07] <absinthetized> also because I need to move the pc on one side of the machine and the mesa card and all the automation on the other side
[11:25:23] <absinthetized> 25 on the 7i43 or on the pci models?
[11:25:34] <jdhNC> No usb for linuxcnc
[11:25:46] <absinthetized> ah no usb just parport... mmm
[11:26:20] <pcw_home> its 1/4 of ClockLow (which varies by card) slowest is 8.33 MHz
[11:26:29] <absinthetized> ok anyway I can buy a parport and even if I'm a bit scarried about the parport/pci combo
[11:26:52] <absinthetized> i can still use a par port wire to connect the computational system to the drive system
[11:27:11] <absinthetized> do you thik this is *bad* generally speaking?
[11:27:26] <pcw_home> just use a new MB with PP (atom 525 for example)
[11:27:45] <absinthetized> yeah currently we are using atom as cnc machine
[11:27:52] <pcw_home> or even dn2800
[11:28:17] <absinthetized> we are now on d425 an plan to move to d2500 or d2800
[11:28:26] <absinthetized> mmm... maybe dn not d :-)
[11:28:53] <pcw_home> or use the 5I25/6I25
[11:29:06] <absinthetized> we currently use a soft timing of 20 which is like an hw timing of 10 I think
[11:29:42] <absinthetized> pcw_home: yes but I *need* to mount a relatively long wire between the atom and the drivers and using a par port cable is imho
[11:29:49] <absinthetized> better than a common flat ribbon
[11:30:03] <absinthetized> maybe I'm just paranoid about the whole pci + ribbon think
[11:30:03] <pcw_home> so use a 5I25/6I25
[11:30:14] <absinthetized> we are talknin about 2/3 meters of cable
[11:30:46] <pcw_home> works fine with 5I26/6I25/daughtercard
[11:31:32] <absinthetized> so you suggest to buy a 5i25 and use a daughter board on parport?
[11:32:16] <pcw_home> using IEEE1284 cable each signal has a twisted pair gnd
[11:32:18] <pcw_home> (5I25 _is_ a parallel port)
[11:32:33] <pcw_home> well parallel port replacement
[11:32:44] <IchGuckLive> absinthetized: witch country are you in
[11:32:47] <jdhNC> I can hook my printer up to a 5i25?
[11:32:54] <absinthetized> IchGuckLive: italy
[11:33:10] <IchGuckLive> the carda are available in austria
[11:33:11] <absinthetized> I've found 2 resellers here 1 in germany and one in cech republic
[11:33:39] <absinthetized> mmm maybe it was in austria and not in germany... :-/
[11:34:03] <pcw_home> jdhNC sure, with the right firmware...
[11:34:12] <absinthetized> so you think replacing the parport + 7i43 with a 5i25 + daughter is a better idea in the end...
[11:35:11] <pcw_home> Faster mainly (less CPU overhead) but overkill if you are OK with parallel port
[11:35:47] <pcw_home> It can also work with existing breakouts
[11:35:54] <absinthetized> ah ok! I think I got it pcw_home... I'll surf the mesa site (and resellers sites) for a while in order to keep the final decision
[11:36:37] <absinthetized> thanx again guys! see ya!
[11:38:58] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: did you see i updated the link for the side where to get the cards in europe as some wars dead
[11:40:02] <pcw_home> Thanks! I dont keep up on what our resellers are up to
[11:40:12] <micges> IchGuckLive: what page?
[11:40:25] <IchGuckLive> it is very hard to get to your cards from Germany
[11:40:42] <IchGuckLive> micges: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards
[11:42:20] <micges> IchGuckLive: in germany lascar.com have many of mesa boards
[11:42:34] <micges> but I don't know if they oficially reseller
[11:42:46] <micges> and they are expensive
[11:43:15] <IchGuckLive> lascar is not longer existing
[11:43:34] <pcw_home> They are but you are right they are expensive (Germany does not make exporting easy)
[11:44:12] <micges> they does exist in april :)
[11:44:12] <IchGuckLive> i paid 3487USD final for the %i25+7i76
[11:44:20] <IchGuckLive> 348USD
[11:44:30] <pcw_home> Yow
[11:45:18] <IchGuckLive> it wars a miss over the Florida Navel base deliverd to AFB Ramstein
[11:46:16] <IchGuckLive> ok going to Eat somthing By
[11:48:53] <Loetmichel> ... and i thougt i would make to much typos ;-)
[11:51:41] <micges> heh
[11:57:01] <Loetmichel> (especially the "german" ones like switching if/when 'cause both are "wenn" in german or writing "war" instead of "was" and so on ;-)
[11:57:40] <jdhNC> some people here say something that sounds like 'war' instead of 'was'
[12:00:05] <pcw_home> maybe its halfway morph between was and were
[12:00:21] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[12:01:17] <Loetmichel> talking english on the phone has some strange sideeffects, too...
[12:02:11] <Loetmichel> if i talk a while with some american/english supplier and been asked something in german by a colleague i will respond in englisch ;-)
[12:02:42] <Loetmichel> and not noticing that i had spoken english to my german co-worker...
[12:03:18] <Loetmichel> ... which is bad because some of them are from east germany and havent learned english in school but russian instead ;-)
[12:07:29] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: agree on the flight back from SH after 3weeks in the USA i takt to the german stuardess also in english
[12:09:06] <alex4nder> yoh
[12:09:15] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:13:25] <jdhNC> pcw: rural .nc.us, was/were/etc are often interchangeable
[12:20:11] <jd896> Hi all
[12:22:15] <IchGuckLive> B) name conversion from jdnc ?
[12:24:18] <jd896> Me ?
[12:24:49] <IchGuckLive> yes
[12:25:09] <jd896> No mate always been jd896
[12:25:30] <IchGuckLive> ah O.O
[12:25:36] * jdhNC hands out an 'h'
[12:30:13] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: did you make the BOB to the 7i43 yourself ?
[12:33:51] <jdhNC> nope. 7i47 for stepgens, pwmgen & encoder, 7i37ta for IO
[12:37:08] <jdhNC> The only issue I've had is that when I start EMC, the PWMGEN pin seems to go high briefly which triggers my pwm->analog_out to spin up the spindle briefly.
[12:37:48] <IchGuckLive> ah
[12:37:59] <IchGuckLive> do you use the encoder inputs ?
[12:38:19] <jdhNC> not yet. Still working on a spindle encoder
[12:38:35] <jdhNC> speaking of which.
[12:38:46] <IchGuckLive> B)
[12:39:29] <jdhNC> what about drilling/tapping a hole in the spindle motor shaft to add a timing gear pulley to drive an encoder?
[12:39:48] <IchGuckLive> i need some general understanding ! DC SERVO with encoder the Gecko320 has all and needs only step/DIR
[12:40:06] <IchGuckLive> the encoder on the mesa
[12:40:44] * jdhNC points at pcw
[12:40:45] <IchGuckLive> is this for H-brige out to the Driver and encoder in to the mesa
[12:41:05] <IchGuckLive> as we all only drive steppers the cheep version
[12:41:43] <IchGuckLive> the H-brige normaly takes for my NOOP understanding 2 signals PWM
[12:41:54] <pcw_home> The Gecko 320 can work as a stand alone step/dir drive for brush motors (no encoder feedback needed)
[12:42:14] <IchGuckLive> to hold the DC motor and if one pwm changes the motor turns to eighter side
[12:43:28] <IchGuckLive> and then the encoder tells the mesa-> linuxcnc if it has reatched the point end the pwm is equaled
[12:43:48] <IchGuckLive> or iam totaly wrong on that system servo based
[12:44:22] <pcw_home> with a simple PWM drive you need encoder feedback (the PWM drive sets the motor voltage)
[12:44:24] <pcw_home> LinxCNC controls the motor voltage with a PID loop
[12:44:40] <pcw_home> LinuxCNC
[12:44:55] <jdhNC> emc is a much more typeable name
[12:44:56] <IchGuckLive> ah Nice understanding
[12:45:20] <IchGuckLive> we shoudt use LC
[12:45:31] <IchGuckLive> in the chanel here
[12:45:48] <pcw_home> PWM is very approximately like velocity mode control
[12:45:58] <IchGuckLive> and put it up to the topic LC=Linuxcnc
[12:47:50] <uw> so i have a design where a servo is stepped down 3:1
[12:47:59] <uw> however the encoder is still on the servo
[12:48:02] <pcw_home> the PID loop senses position errors and changes motor voltage to correct the position
[12:48:20] <uw> is this a decent recommended means for feedback?
[12:49:39] <uw> as in, the between the lead screw and the belt, theres a 3:1 ratio, completed by a toothed belt
[12:50:02] <pcw_home> Yes, of course accuracy will be reduced by any backlash/spring in the reduction
[12:50:03] <uw> lead screw and the *servo motor
[12:51:19] <uw> so it would be best to go to a larger motor, or put the encoder elsewhere?
[12:52:22] <pcw_home> Well if you have backlash it needs to be fixed regardless
[12:52:24] <pcw_home> and with a single encoder I would leave it on the motor
[12:53:28] <pcw_home> (other wise its really easy to get resonances with belt springyness)
[12:53:29] <uw> ok
[12:53:48] <uw> yes i am new to using this belt method
[12:54:14] <Tom_itx> i know it's best handled in hardware but does software backlash compensation work pretty well?
[12:54:33] <uw> i was only thinking about it because the motors have a toothed belt pully on them already. and they are too small to drive the axis by themselves
[12:54:42] <pcw_home> direct drive is perhaps better but more costly (other options are 2 encoders)
[12:55:31] <uw> fortunately i didn't build any of this yet.
[12:55:56] <pcw_home> I think the backlash compensation works well if the cutting force direction stays the same...
[12:57:51] <Tom_itx> what about circles
[12:58:00] <uw> Tom_itx, yea define pretty well? I mean, its pretty much x # of motor steps are useless after changing direction. It really depends on how much backlash is in question here.
[12:58:38] <uw> i would say thats probably a bad time
[12:58:59] <uw> but it all depends on what you expect out of it rather
[12:59:38] <uw> i mean, without buying any new hardware, i would surely go with a software backlash solution rather than nothing
[13:00:44] <uw> pcw_home, another quick question. Have you ever seen people use those digital linear scales for feedback?
[13:10:35] <pcw_home> If you are thinking of the caliper type, they are too slow for real applications
[13:10:36] <pcw_home> but standard linear encoders sure
[13:23:20] <IchGuckLive> by and thanks all for the info
[13:31:58] <uw> ok thanks pcw_home
[13:32:22] <uw> guess there's no way to do this other than spend alot of money lol
[13:33:02] <pcw_home> IICRC the caliper type scales are only good for about a 30 Hz update rate
[13:34:49] <archivist> when I tried a caliper scale I think it was even slower, useless
[13:35:27] <pcw_home> Some have different operational modes for remote access
[13:37:05] <pcw_home> and on at least some scales theres a high speed repetitive readout mode (high being relative to the normal couple of Hz that they update the LDC)
[13:37:13] <pcw_home> LCD
[13:38:03] <uw> yes i believe thats the mode mine has, however most of it needs to be average else it's garbage
[13:38:24] <uw> i havent really messed with that scale too much though honestly
[13:38:58] <uw> only put it on a scope just to see what would happen
[13:40:10] <uw> but the 30hz per accurate measurement seems about right
[13:40:24] <pcw_home> I've considered adding an interface to that type of scale (As I recall they are slightly funky with ~1V signals and maybe even positive gnd)
[13:42:01] <uw> i have built a protobord coverter based on this man's work. http://www.yadro.de
[13:42:32] <uw> however that was over 3 years ago and i cant tell you too much offhand here
[13:43:14] <andypugh> pcw_home: I think that a sserial K-type thermocouple interface might be a winner. For those reprap types.
[13:43:47] <andypugh> Though I am not sure they spend actual money :-)
[13:44:28] <pcw_home> We have a 8 channel TC sserial interface in the pipe but it probably overkill
[13:44:35] <pcw_home> its
[13:45:17] <pcw_home> I think we expect to support at least K/T/J
[13:45:24] <andypugh> Just a little Add-on for a 7i76, maybe. 2 channels and 2 SSRs to control the heater element.
[13:46:26] <pcw_home> Yeah I'll think about it (even the 7I76 is overkill for most small things)
[13:47:08] <pcw_home> maybe a specifc daughtercard for that type of app
[13:48:29] <pcw_home> Do the repraps normally use line powered AC heaters?
[13:50:21] <andypugh> I think that they tend to use 12V actually, but that strikes me as silly.
[13:51:09] <andypugh> If I built one it would a proper dangerous 240V :-)
[13:51:30] <pcw_home> I guess if you are making your own Nichrome element that may short to the housing I'd want 12/24V as well
[13:51:56] <archivist> we have a real earth so 240 is safe :)
[13:52:07] <pcw_home> Yow
[13:52:47] <andypugh> Yeah, I would be pretty careful about earthing it, and have an RCD for good measure
[13:53:33] <andypugh> I got scared when I saw 700+V DC on my voltage-doubling rectifier + caps, though.
[13:55:23] <pcw_home> I grabbed a 600V bus in a tube instrument one time I woke up lying on the ground wondering what happened...
[13:55:53] <andypugh> That's the better of the two outcomes.
[13:56:18] <jd896> Ow that sounds nasty
[13:56:22] <archivist> I was a radio and tv engineer back in the 1970's so met some voltage now and again :)
[13:56:36] <pcw_home> I try and stay away from HV now
[13:57:10] <archivist> occasional shock keeps you careful
[13:57:24] <jd896> Makes you think deff
[13:57:52] <alex4nder> yoh
[13:58:39] <jd896> Once didn't bother turning power of to one of our cranes when it packed up thinking ah I'll only be 110volt found out after a kick it was 415 to the pendant
[13:59:14] <jd896> Was lucky tho only got a small buzz
[13:59:17] <jd896> Nothing like pcw
[13:59:41] <pcw_home> Like my father used to say, dont do that, you'll run up the light bill :-)
[14:00:05] <jd896> Ha I like it
[14:01:33] <uw> i knew somebody back in high school who died from 480v. it was not pretty and i steer clear of that whenever i can.
[14:01:44] <andypugh> Hmm, it looks like I missed a trick when I ordered the memory for this Atom board. It is the same as my Mac, so I could have upgraded the Mac and moved the memory to the Atom.
[14:01:53] <micges> when I was 3 I put nail into wall socket
[14:02:18] <pcw_home> was it a learning experience?
[14:02:48] <micges> yes
[14:02:59] <archivist> micges, you remind me of my attempt to weld with some solder off the mains socket as a kid :)
[14:03:12] <andypugh> In the UK that takes effort. As there is a shield operated by the earth pin. Parent's who don't know this put plastic blanking plugs in the socket, providing the kiddies with a handy tool to open the shutters with.
[14:03:47] <archivist> I was in Libya at the time 110 two pin
[14:04:09] <micges> pcw_home: I always checking every cables twice :)
[14:04:28] <micges> archivist: early experiments :)
[14:04:32] <archivist> causing havoc age 10 ish :)
[14:06:24] <pcw_home> I think (but dont remember) that I must have done that as a youngster
[14:06:26] <pcw_home> as well because I do remember I had a deathly fear of wall outlets for a long time
[14:07:14] <pcw_home> something about an electrical monster sneaking out of the outlet to get me
[14:08:21] <andypugh> Aha! A web site about the subject: http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/
[14:08:24] <micges> I also didn't remember but I had scar for 4 years
[14:08:42] <andypugh> We might have big ugly clunky sockets, but they are relatively safe.
[14:08:45] <pcw_home> Wow thats bad
[14:09:13] <archivist> one thing taught amongst electrical/electronic engineers is keeping one hand in a pocket while diving inside hot equipment so you dont get current across ones heart
[14:09:46] <micges> andypugh: it was in old big comunistic building, two holes nothing else
[15:04:45] <dkirtley> Hi all, Is there a repository that would have schematics/docs on setting up touch probe for EMC2? Will have to come off second LPT (or something) as all pins are in use on primary.
[15:05:09] <dkirtley> I came up empty on linuxcnc wiki.
[15:06:33] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Touch_Probe
[15:07:14] <dkirtley> merci beaucoup. Was looking in the wrong place.
[15:18:06] <andypugh> dkirtley: You could consider using the serial port status lines. There is a HAL component.
[15:19:43] <dkirtley> andypugh: thanks, I do have an extra parallel port on machine already so it should not be too much of a problem. Will prob start with a quick and dirty to set tool and then get to making something a bit fancier
[15:24:45] <andypugh> A challenge: What is a weekend source of larg-diameter tube? Ideally a length of aluminium scaffolding, but any material will do of around that size or bigger
[15:25:26] <andypugh> I am thinking about "breakfast bar support legs" from Ikea. Possibly a length of exhaust pipe from an exhaust fitter. Any other ideas?
[15:43:43] <archivist> andypugh, local scrap yard?
[15:44:46] <uw> also the side of the road sometimes there are knocked down signs that have nice alum poles
[15:45:16] <uw> but youll need to bring a portable saw or something as they are pretty long
[15:47:19] <uw> oh i read you ment exhaust pipe diameter
[15:47:53] <uw> yea you might not even need to cut some of those size poles
[15:48:05] <andypugh> Larger is fine. I jave just been to the corner shop on my pushbike, and I did notice an awful lot of useful-looking street furniture.
[15:48:35] <uw> like fallen street signs even. a bunch of them ive came across were aluminum, easily 1/4" wall too
[15:50:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: chain link fence pipe, conduit
[15:51:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: easily available at 3am all around town
[16:13:08] <gene77> Andy?
[16:13:26] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:14:45] <gene77> axis.3.f-error seems fairly straight line dependent on z speed, 150 u-volts max during retrace
[16:15:39] <gene77> I'll be back later, its dinner time here
[17:02:42] <andypugh> Ah my. I never thought I would be installing XP SP3 again...
[17:03:03] <frallzor> correct me if im wrong, but isnt a SS-screw supposed to be pretty strong?
[17:03:10] <andypugh> Yes
[17:03:20] <andypugh> Did you break it with your teeth?
[17:04:27] <frallzor> by regulaw philips
[17:04:30] <frallzor> *regular
[17:06:50] <andypugh> The tensile force would have been pretty big. Screws do that.
[17:07:25] <roycroft> stainless steel is relatively hard, but it doesn't have great tensile strength or shear strength
[17:08:15] <frallzor> would have thought that it atleast would handle to be screwed into wood with pre-drilled holes =)
[17:08:18] <frallzor> but nooooo
[17:08:21] <andypugh> That's a blanket statement and largely wrong :-)
[17:08:48] <roycroft> yes, i did not identify relative to what
[17:09:26] <roycroft> people have the notion that stainless steel fasteners have super strength for whatever they try to do with them
[17:09:37] <roycroft> they're fairly non-corrosive, which is good
[17:09:59] <roycroft> but you don't use a ss bolt in lieu of a grade 8 bolt
[17:10:18] <roycroft> where a grade 8 bolt is required, of course
[17:12:32] <andypugh> I would use A4 in palce of a grade 8.8 but not a 12.9. I think we are talking about different "grades" though. I ought to add Stainless to my table at http://www.bodgesoc.org/strengths.html
[17:22:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: Were you unhappy with the new mobo?
[17:23:23] <frallzor> tips on removing broken screws from wood? =)
[17:23:49] <Jymmm> drill bit
[17:23:59] <frallzor> preferably quick answers before I go to the crappy store that sold me the screws and the "approiate" drill and burn it down
[17:24:19] <andypugh> frallzor: I guess it is below the surface?
[17:24:35] <frallzor> few mm outside
[17:25:02] <Jymmm> boiling water and needle nose
[17:25:03] <andypugh> Mole (Vise) grips then.
[17:25:10] <frallzor> cant grip it with my tools
[17:25:18] <frallzor> its "pointy"
[17:25:41] <andypugh> Do you have a welder?
[17:25:46] <frallzor> nope
[17:25:52] <mhaberler> Jymmm: http://www.3m.com/intl/ca/english/centres/home_leisure/duct_tape/movie.html
[17:25:53] <andypugh> Buy a welder...
[17:26:39] <Jymmm> frallzor: drill a big ass hole next to it?
[17:26:58] <Jymmm> frallzor: hole saw it out =)
[17:27:04] <frallzor> if not ruined yet, then the piece will be after that
[17:27:11] <frallzor> trying to save this fucker =(
[17:27:22] <Jymmm> what is it?
[17:27:35] <Jymmm> mhaberler: heh
[17:27:35] <frallzor> piece of oak for a "holder"
[17:28:07] <Jymmm> drill a tiny hole nect to it and use a bigger replacement screw
[17:28:25] <frallzor> cant do that =(
[17:28:54] <frallzor> no room for new holes on the part it was supposed to be screwed too
[17:28:58] <Jymmm> then make it firewood
[17:29:21] <Jymmm> frallzor: did you drill pilot holes?
[17:29:56] <frallzor> yup
[17:30:04] <Jymmm> you could SLOT the end with a dremel
[17:30:17] <Jymmm> then you should made em bigger pilots =)
[17:30:19] <frallzor> trying to dig a hole into the piece now
[17:30:40] <frallzor> I asked the store for a suitable drill, Ill holed em accounable =)
[17:30:45] <frallzor> had it all with me to show
[17:31:06] <Jymmm> Crown Bolt brand screws?
[17:31:30] * frallzor lives in Sweden
[17:31:36] <Jymmm> ah
[17:32:08] <Jymmm> when you heard it squeeking, you should stopped.
[17:32:19] <frallzor> it just broke =)
[17:32:24] <frallzor> no warningsounds
[17:32:33] <Jymmm> that sucks
[17:33:21] <Jymmm> I've broke a few SS screws in wood before, and with good sized pilot holes too.
[17:33:42] <andypugh> If you have a big soldering iron, then you might be able to heat it enough that is chars the hole, and comes loose.
[17:34:11] <andypugh> It is worth greasing stainless screws (and brass ones) when driving in to oak.
[17:34:33] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, NOW you tell me =)
[17:34:43] <andypugh> Also, always use a cordless drill, don't let it stop.
[17:35:13] <Jymmm> I was useing a cordless drill, just 3.5" screws into studs =)
[17:35:13] <andypugh> I have driven thousands of screws into oak (solid oak floorboards)
[17:36:54] <andypugh> I am installing $10k of Autodesk software to my home PC. For free. And it's legit !
[17:37:18] <Jymmm> who did you kill?
[17:37:44] <andypugh> If you din't notice, I got away with it.
[17:38:01] <Jymmm> or just havent' got caught yet =)
[17:38:41] <andypugh> It's a Home Use License issued by my employer. (who pay for hundreds of seats of it)
[17:39:00] * frallzor is digging in wood
[17:39:05] <Jymmm> cool. install it into a VM =)
[17:39:29] <andypugh> I am doing, I run a Mac here.
[17:39:55] <frallzor> why VM?
[17:40:07] <frallzor> and not just a proper win-partition?
[17:40:36] <andypugh> Because it is Windows software? (I have Autodesk 2012 Mac too, but it is Inventor I want)
[17:41:52] <frallzor> now there is even less to grab of the screw =/
[17:42:12] <andypugh> Ah, because VMware can't access a non-64-bit boot partition, and I don't want to buy Win7 or Vista to install on my Mac.
[17:43:28] <andypugh> frallzor: what is the application? Something that has worked for me in the past (once) is to drill through from the other side and chase the original screw back out.
[17:43:56] <andypugh> That was, however, in steel with a pre-drilled through-hole.
[17:45:47] <andypugh> Plan B would be to punch it below the surface and then insert a cross-grain dowel plug made from a carefully selected offcut of the same bit of wood.
[17:46:18] <frallzor> tried drilling all around it now, just to get that shitbag out
[17:46:21] <frallzor> no go =/
[17:47:00] <andypugh> Metals stick in oak, even stainless.
[17:49:58] <frallzor> heyhey
[17:50:08] <frallzor> Im Crusty the screw extracting clown
[17:50:41] <andypugh> frallzor: Too late now. But you ought to have sat back, had a think, and then started with ideas, least destructive first. There are ways.
[17:50:59] <frallzor> this worked out
[17:51:14] <frallzor> seems to possible to put in a new screw even
[17:51:16] <andypugh> Best bet now is probably a miling cutter and a cross-grain plug
[17:51:26] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[17:51:27] <frallzor> filled it up with some "filler"
[17:51:34] <andypugh> Eeeew!
[17:51:55] <frallzor> few toothpicks and lots of wood glue! =)
[17:52:13] <frallzor> im a genius!
[17:53:30] <andypugh> Depressingly, you probably are
[17:54:56] <frallzor> will work for the application, why do more =)
[17:55:09] <andypugh> robin_sz: Where can I get a 1m long >40mm dia metal tube from, on a saturday? For bonus points, within walking distance as 1m long tubes are a challenge on an R1
[17:59:46] <robin_sz> i suppose "cut off one of the fork legs" is not a good answer?
[18:00:28] <robin_sz> bit of scaff tube?
[18:00:31] <andypugh> Too small, and 2 short. (maybe not on the GasGas, actually)
[18:00:55] <frallzor> turned out fine =)
[18:01:04] <andypugh> Yeah, a bit of scaff tube would be perfect. Where do you get it on a weekend? (or at all?)
[18:01:19] <robin_sz> scrounge from local builder
[18:01:31] <frallzor> this is a very importan project so I needed it to be done
[18:01:47] <frallzor> drinkholder in oak and SS for garden furniture
[18:01:55] <frallzor> very important
[18:02:36] <robin_sz> prolly not builders merchant, but local builders yard, or just go find where some houses are going up
[18:03:23] <andypugh> You expect to see anyone on a site on a saturday?
[18:03:31] <robin_sz> nope
[18:03:36] <robin_sz> this is a good thing right?
[18:03:43] <robin_sz> actually, sat morning, yes
[18:03:50] <robin_sz> what you want is a "putlog"
[18:04:00] <andypugh> Not when I need help reducing to bike-portable length.
[18:04:31] <robin_sz> putlogs are the bits that go from the horizontals into a mortar joint
[18:04:31] <andypugh> Yeah, my dad has a stack of them.
[18:04:58] <robin_sz> well, get scrounging :)
[18:05:06] <andypugh> Though, oddly, he has his own name for them that he got from his dad.
[18:05:17] <robin_sz> where do you live again?
[18:05:44] <andypugh> I live in Basildon. My dad has enough scaff for a house in Huddersfield,
[18:06:23] <robin_sz> should be easy in that neck of the woods
[18:06:33] <robin_sz> basildon, its essex
[18:06:39] <robin_sz> home of the cowboy builder
[18:07:11] <robin_sz> that or your local fabricator, armed with a tenner
[18:08:09] <andypugh> I don't actually know anyone on Essex. I have been here 10 years and not made any new acquaintances. I only know people from college or internet.
[18:08:51] <robin_sz> well, now is your opportunity
[18:09:01] <andypugh> I did find a stainless exhaust manufacturer in the adjacent industrial estate, might be worth a trip.
[18:09:15] <robin_sz> they will all knock off by 12
[18:09:32] <andypugh> Yeah,and I was planning on being asleep then
[18:09:46] <robin_sz> order from metal supermarket then
[18:10:01] <robin_sz> http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/MetalGuide.aspx?CategoryID=BLACK_STEEL&ProductID=TUBE_ROUND&ProductSubCategory=EN3B
[18:10:15] <robin_sz> or do you want seemless?
[18:10:17] <andypugh> Deliveries of long stuff are a problem.
[18:10:21] <robin_sz> seamless even
[18:10:27] <robin_sz> 1m is long?
[18:10:53] <andypugh> too long for my pacel box.
[18:11:52] <robin_sz> well, just find a fabby near by
[18:12:02] <robin_sz> there must be plenty
[18:12:02] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_4069.jpg better suited for regular glasses and cans =)
[18:12:27] <andypugh> Perfect, but not tomorrow: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=22&prd_id=728
[18:12:54] <syyl_> oh, mobile beerholder?
[18:13:02] <syyl_> you just put the wrong bottle in there
[18:13:12] <frallzor> took what I hade close =P
[18:13:16] <frallzor> *had
[18:13:43] <andypugh> Is that oak? It's a funny colour
[18:13:43] <robin_sz> oh ally, I had assumed steel
[18:13:50] <andypugh> Steel is fine too.
[18:13:58] <robin_sz> you can get ally scaff
[18:14:00] <frallzor> its oiled oak =)
[18:14:19] <syyl_> looks nice
[18:14:48] <andypugh> robin_sz: You mean "Ally scaff exists"
[18:14:59] <frallzor> but its not really for bottles, it keept tipping over so I put one there so it wouldnt =)
[18:15:15] <robin_sz> andypugh, not quite
[18:15:34] <robin_sz> that would merely imply its existence
[18:16:06] <robin_sz> my comment went further and implied thta it not only existed , but could be obtained as well
[18:16:09] <djdelorie> have you tried www.allyscaff.com ? ;-)
[18:16:56] <andypugh> No, you implied that _I_ could obtain it. To imply the more general case you should have said "one can get ally scaff"
[18:17:31] <robin_sz> looking back ...
[18:18:03] <frallzor> http://open.spotify.com/track/5Ud2nie1VnFNPGrQzS3X7u for all non-swedes in here with spotify =)
[18:18:23] <robin_sz> I think you are correct, my statement specifically mentioned "you" thus, implying no more than it would be obtainable by you
[18:18:41] <robin_sz> one could assume a general availability
[18:18:52] <djdelorie> "you" is a funny word in this language...
[18:18:55] <robin_sz> but you are right, i think it would be wrong to assume it was available to anyone
[18:19:16] <robin_sz> for example nuns might find it tricky to purchase
[18:19:32] <djdelorie> no allyscaff.com, but there is a quickally.com.au . . . not sure how "quick" it would be delivery-wise...
[18:19:42] * robin_sz remembers the problems he had purchasing copper pipe
[18:20:17] <robin_sz> I actually had trouble buying gas fittings
[18:20:25] <robin_sz> because he thought I looked liek a builder
[18:20:38] <robin_sz> I was unsure whether to take that as a compliment
[18:20:49] <andypugh> I imagine that nuns can buy anything they want. They probably get less questions about motivations than most.
[18:21:02] <robin_sz> you think?
[18:21:14] <robin_sz> condoms?
[18:21:46] <robin_sz> Black Sabbath CD's
[18:21:50] <andypugh> Even I have bought condoms.
[18:22:16] <robin_sz> ah happy days
[18:22:20] <robin_sz> then I got married
[18:22:57] <andypugh> Though buying a packet of every type and brand in the shop did get me a funny look.
[18:23:10] <robin_sz> research?
[18:23:36] <andypugh> Yes, as a skin-graft culture substrate.
[18:23:44] <robin_sz> silly me
[18:23:52] <robin_sz> I should have thought of that
[18:24:50] <andypugh> I had bought some several years earlier for the more usual application. ie repairing Z250 carburettor daiphragms.
[18:25:20] <robin_sz> what brand?
[18:25:39] <robin_sz> "stalwarts Dirigibles" "tough and ready for the road"
[18:25:55] <andypugh> I don't recall now, though I do remeber that unlubricated was suggested so that the glue would stick.
[18:26:11] <robin_sz> they are latex though
[18:26:20] <robin_sz> you wold have been better off with nitrile
[18:26:39] <andypugh> I think I used Red Stripe as they had, at the time, a reputation for taking rough treatment.
[18:27:01] <andypugh> And many are not latex. That was part of my research.
[18:27:03] <robin_sz> I ibviously hang around in the wrong cirlces
[18:27:07] <robin_sz> coo
[18:27:09] <robin_sz> really?
[18:27:32] <robin_sz> nitrile?
[18:27:34] <robin_sz> or ?
[18:27:41] <andypugh> Some chaps are sensitive to latex, in areas where one would not want a rash.
[18:27:57] <robin_sz> interesting
[18:28:09] <frallzor> right
[18:28:38] <frallzor> at night emc turns into sex ed.
[18:29:01] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom#Materials
[18:29:07] <robin_sz> the man with the melon places his *left* foot on the rotating table ...
[18:29:12] <djdelorie> emc == erectile machine controller ?
[18:29:14] <andypugh> (caution, there be pictures)
[18:29:29] <robin_sz> I had a plan for that 6 axis robot ...
[18:29:39] <robin_sz> but never found anyone willing to try
[18:30:04] <frallzor> andypugh is up for the challenge
[18:30:08] <frallzor> he never backs down
[18:30:29] <andypugh> Nah, that's Sol
[18:31:06] <andypugh> (who robin knows, and the rest of yo don't)
[18:32:05] <frallzor> andypugh you know of that english tv-series about vacation?
[18:32:23] <frallzor> some typical spanish resort I assume
[18:32:25] <andypugh> Fawlty Towers?
[18:32:44] <frallzor> Benidorm!
[18:32:56] <robin_sz> and of course you know the famous story about Churchill and the condoms?
[18:34:26] <robin_sz> the british army asked for them, to use over the ends of rifles on the western front, stopped dirt and ice getting in
[18:34:35] <robin_sz> churchill approved the request
[18:35:04] <robin_sz> and some very large, extra thick ones were produced for the purpose
[18:35:13] <andypugh> (mentioned on that Wiki page, as a use)
[18:35:27] <robin_sz> he instructed they be marked "british army issue ... size medium"
[18:36:12] <andypugh> I am sure that has to be an urban myth, but knowing Churchill's sense of humour..
[18:37:03] * robin_sz nods
[18:38:19] <robin_sz> there are several versions of the story
[18:41:06] <robin_sz> anyway
[18:41:28] <robin_sz> tomorrow I will be playing on the haas again, actually had first chips this week
[18:41:30] <robin_sz> at last
[18:41:59] <robin_sz> I had the fun of programming it by hand, someting I have not done in a while
[18:42:31] <robin_sz> id forgotten how fussy gcode can be
[18:42:53] <robin_sz> G1 X250 F500 ...
[18:43:10] <andypugh> That should work..
[18:43:18] <robin_sz> nope, sir forgot the decimal points, I shall simply ignore that line and continue as if it didnt exist
[18:44:33] <robin_sz> pesky thing could have at least thrown an error
[18:45:37] <robin_sz> or ot might have interpreteed as microns, istr it moveing veeeeerrrry sllllooooowwwwlly
[18:48:06] <andypugh> I simply assumed inches and a reasonably sized machine.
[19:10:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/South-Bend-9-inch-bench-lathe-/180898700821?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DUPI.GIROS%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%26itu%3DUCI%252BUCC%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D120749536643%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9000611164026953060
[19:12:20] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kerry-Screwcutting-Metal-Lathe-5-radius-x-23-Excellent-Condition-/160815288194?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DUPI.GIROS%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%26itu%3DUCI%252BUCC%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D180898700821%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9000633016097279094
[19:12:25] <Tom_itx> lathe anyone?
[19:13:41] <andypugh> "I used this lathe 1 time,with 110 v motor, and everything worked" I wonder why he stopped?
[19:14:35] <andypugh> But it does look nice, you can still see the frosting.
[19:15:17] <Tom_itx> vintage 14 x 72" also for $500
[19:15:28] <Tom_itx> celtic
[19:17:25] <Tom_itx> mori seki for $29k
[19:18:18] <andypugh> Curious tailstock on the Kerry, not seen that before.
[19:19:19] <Tom_itx> side driven instead of rear end?
[19:21:25] <andypugh> YES.
[19:21:35] <Tom_itx> i've never seen one
[19:21:41] <andypugh> More info on the world's best web site: http://www.lathes.co.uk/kerry/index.html
[19:23:32] <syyl_> lathes.co.uk is what i read before i go to sleep
[19:24:14] <Jymmm> archivist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0VXYBc6PPQ&feature=fvwp&NR=1
[19:28:02] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Is that a cannon in your pocket? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0VXYBc6PPQ&feature=fvwp&NR=1
[20:20:45] <andypugh> Same milll as mine. I want the slotting head. I don't want all of it though. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170853001738
[20:23:50] <Tom_itx> the collet or the rotary table?
[20:24:37] <andypugh> the slotter
[20:24:56] <Tom_itx> i've got a small one for my sherline
[20:25:07] <Tom_itx> i don't think i've used it yet
[20:25:19] <Tom_itx> i got some used slitting saws that fit it though
[20:25:24] <andypugh> Oh, I doubt I would ever _use_ it!
[20:25:37] <andypugh> ?
[20:26:10] <andypugh> Are we talking at srossed porpoises?
[20:26:29] <Tom_itx> ?
[20:26:50] <andypugh> On the table of that miller is a slotting head. That has no relationship to slitting saws.
[20:27:48] <Tom_itx> on the left side?
[20:28:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: I think I've asked you a few times but missed if you ever responded about the mobo
[20:28:55] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Yes
[20:29:22] <andypugh> Jymmm: Go on?
[20:29:28] <Tom_itx> ok i was looking at the collet on the right
[20:29:40] <Jymmm> andypugh: Are you unhappy with the mobo?
[20:29:51] <andypugh> which one?
[20:30:03] <Jymmm> newest DC one
[20:30:21] <andypugh> I haven't got it working yet, no memory.
[20:30:50] <andypugh> it looks promising though.
[20:31:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: Oh, I thought I saw you taking to someone (pcw?) about it and you had seemed a tad disappointed.
[20:31:09] <andypugh> It also has Mystery Ports not on the sticker, with many pins.
[20:31:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: LVDS?
[20:31:24] <Tom_itx> andy i thought that was a rotary head
[20:31:55] <andypugh> Well, I bought it thinking that PCIe to PCI was easy, when in fact it is hard. But then a 6i25 appeared, and all is good again.
[20:32:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: It has LVDS, RS232,422,485 selectable, paraport,
[20:32:47] <andypugh> LVDS might be interesting, I have an LVDS touchscreen.
[20:33:06] <Tom_itx> that broken screen i have is LVDS
[20:34:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: iirc, it also have 6 GPIO pins on an 8 pin header
[20:34:33] <andypugh> Hmm, I wonder why?
[20:34:42] <Jymmm> System intergration
[20:34:48] <Jymmm> embedded
[20:35:33] <andypugh> It is remarkably thin
[20:37:02] <Jymmm> It also has backlight control for the lcd
[20:37:53] <Tom_itx> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Transparent_double_sided_smartphone_demonstrated_at_2012_Wireless_Japan_expo_video-article-fajb_transparent_phone_jun2012-html.aspx
[20:40:39] <Jymmm> andypugh: I take that back, I might have been confusing which mobo had the GPIO pins
[20:41:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: Technical product specs http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CGsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloadmirror.intel.com%2F20714%2Feng%2FDN2800MT_TechProdSpec02.pdf&ei=56XST9nhCqnO2AXj8sW5Dw&usg=AFQjCNFUtUTLNasgpEt02mJC0UQF9rnu1Q
[20:43:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: That also has part numbers for the connectors
[20:47:07] <andypugh> Sorry, distracted
[20:48:25] <andypugh> How the heck do I make Xp realise that its fisk just got a lot bigger?
[20:48:44] <Jymmm> ?
[20:49:02] <Jymmm> did you resize a partition? new hdd?
[20:49:33] <andypugh> The latter, mainly. Sort of.
[20:49:42] <Jymmm> what was it, what should it be now, what does it think it is
[20:50:10] <andypugh> wa 30GB, now 200GB, thinks it is 30GB
[20:50:30] <Jymmm> sata or ide?
[20:51:52] <andypugh> SCSI. Or so it thinks. It's a VM
[20:52:26] <Jymmm> Is the VM setup to expand as needed?
[20:53:50] <andypugh> It's complicated. And I am making it more so.
[20:53:57] <Jymmm> lol
[20:54:07] <Jymmm> you have fun with that then =)
[20:54:28] <andypugh> It was set to expand, but got to its limit. So I increased the limit, but XP hasn't noticed.
[20:54:59] <Jymmm> did you shutdown the VM completely and restart your computer?
[20:55:35] <Jymmm> not pause, but a full shut down of the vm
[20:55:50] <andypugh> I restarted the VM. Restarting the host seems unnecesary?
[20:56:08] <Jymmm> Not restart, shut down.
[20:56:29] <Jymmm> that's power off, pause, power on.
[20:56:35] <andypugh> Yes, I had to.
[20:57:08] <andypugh> In fact I cloed the VM so that it could be it's own helper VM to mount and resize it's partition..
[21:02:15] <Jymmm> andypugh: Did you shut down your VM host software
[21:02:24] <andypugh> No.
[21:05:28] <andypugh> Now the original VM is in a boot/close down loop. Which is musical, but annoying.
[21:05:39] <Jymmm> heh
[21:06:35] <Jymmm> Did you shut down XP properly before resizing?
[21:06:37] <andypugh> I had nevr heard of Kerry lathes until this evening, and now there is one on eBay uk too.
[21:06:48] <andypugh> Jyhmm
[21:06:52] <andypugh> Jymmm: Ys
[21:06:53] <andypugh> Yes
[21:06:55] <Jymmm> k
[21:07:01] <andypugh> VMware enforces thay
[21:07:03] <andypugh> that
[21:07:31] <Jymmm> You have to or XP NTFS will seriously bitch and not boot
[21:07:53] <Jymmm> has nothign to do with VM in the least
[21:08:26] <andypugh> Hmm, now what.
[21:09:07] <Jymmm> shut down your VM host software?
[21:10:33] <andypugh> Not hopeful
[21:16:16] <Jymmm> As I dont know what yoursetup is or what your did, I'm out of ideas
[21:16:29] <andypugh> Yeah, me too.
[21:16:40] <andypugh> But sleep is high on the list
[21:16:58] <Jymmm> or tequilia =)
[21:18:01] <andypugh> Lets see if a Ubuntu VM can rescue the data at least
[21:19:32] <Tom_itx> i feel a lathe in andy's future
[21:20:31] <andypugh> I already have two
[21:22:14] <Tom_itx> can never have too many toys
[22:48:33] <mozmck> andypugh: you have to boot from a gparted ISO image and resize the partition. I've done this with VMware and VirtualBox.
[23:21:39] <Jymmm> mozmck: So when he resized the VM space, it allocated it as "free space" instead of the existing partition?
[23:22:35] <Jymmm> I guess that makes sense. You would have thought it would have given an option of how to allocate it.
[23:24:33] <Jymmm> mozmck: But I don't think that explains why the xp vm is trying to reboot upon startup. Unless the resize fubared the MBR, but I dont know how andypugh did the resizing either.
[23:25:58] <Jymmm> ROTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLgqv2XgiA&feature=endscreen&NR=1#
[23:37:08] <archivist> Jymmm, that video shows the wrong design graver, and its noisy as hell, something too loose