#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-05

[00:30:14] <emc_user123> Can anyone tell me the name of the keyserver to get 3CB9FD148F374FEF from when adding the deb http://linuxcnc.org/ lucid base repo ?
[00:33:18] <emc_user123> 3CB9FD148F374FEF
[01:59:50] <DJ9DJ> moin
[05:17:24] <r00t4rd3d> meow
[07:42:23] <DJ9DJ> re
[08:26:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnABuOOoi5w&list=UU4h0VCL37WHGGzp8gwY1fow&index=1&feature=plcp
[08:27:40] <syyl_> yeah :D
[08:36:33] <delkin> "cannot home while shared home switch is closed"- What am I doing wrong?
[08:37:39] <JT-Shop> is the switch n/c?
[08:38:05] <jdhNC> do you have more than one axis home switch on the same input?
[08:39:11] <JT-Shop> axis.N.home-sw-in IN BIT
[08:39:12] <JT-Shop> Should be driven TRUE if the home switch for this joint is closed
[08:39:13] <delkin> jdhNC: I don't know. How do I check that?
[08:39:37] <JT-Shop> open up show hal configuration and put the pins in the watch window
[08:39:56] <delkin> I just loaded the axis/axis configuration and tried to run the simulation with the gcode "LinuxCNC"
[08:40:32] <JT-Shop> oh this is a sim not a machine
[08:40:37] <jdhNC> I think that message comes from having shared home switches and one of the axes is sitting on the switch.
[08:41:05] <jdhNC> but, the sims should run as-is?
[08:41:23] <JT-Shop> yea, what was I thinking
[08:42:17] <JT-Shop> the " tried to run the simulation" confused me
[08:42:22] <delkin> What configuration sample should I use instead of the sim, for a normal 3axis milling machine? Neither the motors, nor drivers are mounted yet
[08:42:49] <JT-Shop> what are you trying to do?
[08:43:24] <delkin> I am trying to simulate as much as possible to be ready when the motors/drivers arrive
[08:43:34] <delkin> I want to get used to the software
[08:43:50] <JT-Shop> are you trying to use a stepconf configuration?
[08:44:50] <JT-Shop> run Linuxcnc from the main menu and go to sample configurations > sim > axis > axis and load that one
[08:45:18] <delkin> gonna try that
[08:46:46] <delkin> JT-Shop: Is stepconf configuration an .ini file or a gcode file?
[08:47:46] <JT-Shop> neither, when you run the stepconf wizard it generates a complete configuration which includes ini and hal and other files you need
[08:48:43] <JT-Shop> delkin: for even more fun run sample configurations > sim > ngcgui and pick one
[08:51:13] <delkin> JT-Shop: Interesting, that configuration doesn't give any error... Why did I get so many troubles with the sim/axis and none with ngcgui?
[08:52:31] <delkin> In sim/axis there is also a cian line pointing to a a G54 point that is always a bit far from the model. In ngcgui there is no G54 point
[08:55:43] <delkin> When I load my gcode model, why is it always far away from the XYZ reference? Is it a gcode parameter or .ini parameter?
[08:55:53] <delkin> or something else...
[08:56:23] <JT-Shop> that would be your g code
[08:56:50] <JT-Shop> you might have a g54 offset, look in the dro tab
[08:58:29] <delkin> JT-Shop: You're right, I missed it. The G54 is there. Is the G54 position also gcode file defined?
[08:59:01] <JT-Shop> it can be, do you know how to clear the offset?
[09:00:38] <delkin> JT-Shop: No, please explain.
[09:01:37] <JT-Shop> iirc from the machine menu there is a selection to clear offsets
[09:01:44] <skunkworks> delkin: this may be good reading... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems
[09:01:46] <JT-Shop> I'm on a winblows computer atm
[09:02:01] <skunkworks> it also shows you how to clear all offsets.
[09:03:52] <JT-Shop> this one should be mandtory reading for new users http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common/User_Concepts.html
[09:04:07] <JT-Shop> hi skunkworks
[09:05:05] <skunkworks> hey jt
[09:05:44] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: did you see http://www.electronicsam.com/images/sawall.JPG
[09:06:15] <skunkworks> (first time it has been run in probably 5+ years)
[09:06:25] <JT-Shop> no, cool a saw mill
[09:06:55] <JT-Shop> band saw?
[09:06:56] <skunkworks> www.electronicsam.com/images/sawall.JPG
[09:07:01] <skunkworks> yes
[09:07:20] <skunkworks> something my dad and his brothers made in the early 80's
[09:07:34] <JT-Shop> my neighbor has on but the bandsaw is horz
[09:08:14] <skunkworks> older picture http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC02968.JPG
[09:08:59] <JT-Shop> I like the fenders
[09:09:06] <skunkworks> yep - that is the common way ;) I don't know if they didn't think of it - or what. This does make the logs square without much fuzz
[09:09:08] <skunkworks> fuss
[09:09:15] <skunkworks> heh - it used to be portable...
[09:09:27] <skunkworks> now it is run with a 20hp 3ph electric
[09:09:28] <JT-Shop> does it have a log lift?
[09:09:44] <skunkworks> yes - a ford 4000 tractor with bucket
[09:09:51] <JT-Shop> lol
[09:10:26] <JT-Shop> the one my neighbor has is ground level so you can roll the logs on by hand once you drag them up to the saw
[09:11:04] <JT-Shop> pretty damm neat
[09:11:32] * JT-Shop goes back to work
[09:15:07] <skunkworks> take it easy
[10:11:59] <mrsun> hehe machine level shows that my mounting of the lathe is off ... off ALOT :P
[10:41:23] <skunkworks> mrsun: did you used to be Bo^Dick?
[10:41:35] <mrsun> ehm no ? :)
[10:41:46] <skunkworks> ok. (sorry random question)
[10:52:56] <JT-Shop> lol
[11:06:54] <mrsun> need to make some jacking screws now for the lathe ...
[11:18:50] <dave_1> Is anyone else having the home page for linuxcnc.org come up in french?
[11:19:40] <JT-Shop> no
[11:19:46] <jdhNC> it's special for bastille day.
[11:19:59] <jdhNC> or no.
[11:20:35] <JT-Shop> dave_1: at the bottom of the page you can select the language
[11:21:33] <JT-Shop> and does your url look like this? http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/french
[11:22:21] <dave_1> nothing past the .org
[11:22:56] <JT-Shop> what happens when you select english?
[11:23:42] <dave_1> must have accidentally enabled the french ... fixed now
[11:24:09] <dave_1> which is good because I'm pretty much monolingual
[11:24:50] <dave_1> back to work ... thanks
[11:25:09] <JT-Shop> np
[11:41:46] <andypugh> If you followed a link there from someone who reads it in a different language, then you get that language until you switch back. Or perhaps it is actually random.
[11:46:14] <JT-Shop> the twilight zone
[11:47:13] * JT-Shop makes a half assed attempt to find the top of the desk
[11:58:15] <archivist> the posh word is archeology :)
[12:31:13] <ctjctj> In section 13.7.1 of the manual (V2.5, 2012-05-28) it says 5420-5428
[12:31:15] <ctjctj> Current Position including all offsets and in the current program units for X, Y, Z, A, B, C, U, V & W. In absolute machine
[12:31:17] <ctjctj> coordinates, volatile.
[12:31:19] <ctjctj> But my debug output shows that at least the Z is reporting the position in the current coordinate system... What am I missing here?
[12:34:35] <ctjctj> Ok. I've verified that X, Y and Z are all being reported in the current active coordinate system. Not absolute machine coordinates.
[12:35:32] <jdhNC> aren't those two descriptions mutually exclusive?
[12:35:49] <ctjctj> please rephrase the question jdhNC
[12:36:05] <jdhNC> if it is absolute machine coords, what do offsets matter?
[12:37:06] <ctjctj> jdhNC, the documentation says that #5420-#5422 are the absolute machine coordinates. (for x,y,z) but my debug says they are relative.
[12:37:15] <ctjctj> Therefore this is a bug report.
[12:37:38] <ctjctj> The question is: Is the code wrong or is the manual wrong. *GRIN*
[12:38:13] <archivist> or your reading of it, re read the beginning of your sentence
[12:38:34] <ctjctj> archivist: *grins* It is always better to assume it is a user error.
[12:39:02] <archivist> this bit-> including all offsets
[12:39:29] <ctjctj> The manual states: 5420-5428 Current Position including all offsets and in the current program units for X, Y, Z, A, B, C, U, V & W. In absolute machine coordinates, volatile.
[12:40:09] <ctjctj> I am *very* confused.
[12:40:22] <andypugh> The documents were recently changed
[12:40:39] <ctjctj> andypugh: this was updated may 28,2012
[12:40:48] <andypugh> The "in absolute machine coordinates" is wrong and has been removed, AFAIK
[12:40:49] <ctjctj> sorry, this document is from that date.
[12:41:06] <ctjctj> andypugh: thank you. That is what I thought.
[12:41:57] <ctjctj> I'm ready from a PDF that was has a date of may 28th, 2012. Did check to see if it was recent. *grin*
[12:42:20] <IchGuckLive> there is also the MashineZero in
[12:42:36] <IchGuckLive> this might be nonzero
[12:45:17] <dave_1> I'm installing 10.04/2.5 on a 8Gb CF, since I have plenty of memory ( 4 Gb) I deleted the swap and now need to decide what format I need on the disk.
[12:45:38] <dave_1> Ext3 | Ext4 | Ext2
[12:45:46] <andypugh> ctjctj: Actually, the changes might not have been made, but I do recall an agreement that they should be.
[12:46:58] <IchGuckLive> dave_1: ext2
[12:47:29] <dave_1> because that minimizes i/o?
[12:47:41] <IchGuckLive> RT speed
[12:47:47] <dave_1> OK
[12:48:38] <dave_1> tnx
[12:48:45] <IchGuckLive> NP
[12:48:54] <IchGuckLive> did you use a atom ?
[12:49:53] <dave_1> the final target will be a D525
[12:50:18] <IchGuckLive> then it is better to go for EXT§ this has a better performance
[12:50:23] <IchGuckLive> ext3
[12:50:35] <dave_1> gone again ..... maybe
[12:50:49] <IchGuckLive> as it is optimized for use with cf and usb start
[12:51:19] <dave_1> OK, got to be careful here I might learn something new ...;-)
[12:51:35] <dave_1> off to make it happen.
[12:51:41] <dave_1> hang in there
[12:51:59] <IchGuckLive> if you plan a stepper this is no factor on servo more traffic is better for ext2
[12:53:40] <mrsun> This did not matter in the days when bed surfaces were all scraped true, as any distortion would be corrected at the second operation. Costs wont permit this nowa-days- and in any case, the ground surface is superior. <-- how is a grind surface supperior? :P
[12:56:30] <ctjctj> On a different question, more machines oriented. Using a fly cutter how do I determine the max safe speed for the cutter? And given that, how do I determine the correct feed rate? I was going to use a fly cutter to surface my MDF cutting bed but the damn thing is not balanced and it seems more likely to burn the MDF than to actually cut it.
[12:57:37] <Jymmm> you dont surface MDF.
[12:57:45] <archivist> you can add some balance weight
[12:57:59] <ctjctj> Jymmm: ummm, why not?
[12:58:08] <archivist> you want flat you machine it!
[12:58:38] <ctjctj> I think I just stepped into an "in joke" What is the difference between surfacing and machining?
[12:59:04] <mrsun> hmm i think my bench is to flimsy for a lathe .. its made of steel and just a sheet of metal on top (granted 2mm but still) supported here and there by 25x50mm "pipes" (rectangular) .. fells like the bed of the lathe should have no trouble bending it :P
[13:00:18] <Jymmm> MDF surfaces are compressed to 400 PSI or so, The innards around 120PSI. You risk breaking apart that hard layer. If it's not flat already, Then the MDF was mishandled/mistreated and should probably just be replaced with something that this is flat.
[13:00:35] <archivist> ctjctj, by the way, you may notice a concave result if your z axis is not 90degrees to the cutting plane
[13:01:53] <ctjctj> Jymmm: Oh cool. Yeah I can see that. The issue is one of I can't get my Y axis to be parallel to the bed (MDF). This is a temporary fix until my fairy godmother grants me enough money for real linear bearings.
[13:02:36] <Jymmm> ctjctj: and if you remove the MDF, is it parallel then?
[13:02:50] <ctjctj> archivist: Why would it be concave? The surface will have ridges based on the amount of off axis the Z has.
[13:02:53] <archivist> ctjctj, machine what the mdf mounts on
[13:03:31] <ctjctj> Jymmm: Nope. This is a DIY JGRO style CNC router. I've got to get it "good enough" to cut version two which WILL be better fitting.
[13:03:46] <archivist> ctjctj, left right ridge error, forward back concave error
[13:04:57] <ctjctj> *frowns* Stupid little things like cutting the daddo's 0.02 to deep on the table saw causes the bearings to be too loose unless all the adjustment is used to keep the bearings tight, not adjust for out of parallel.
[13:05:09] <ctjctj> archivist: Ok, we are speaking the same terms now.
[13:05:48] <ctjctj> archivist: and yes, I've worked hard to remove that Z axis tilt. Once the surface is more parallel I'll be able to tram it better.
[13:06:37] <archivist> use a smaller cutter so those errors are smaller
[13:07:51] <ctjctj> *grin* already there. For a piece that is 10" x 15" the amount of error on a 1" diameter cutter is acceptable. The ridges/concave areas "average" out under that board.
[13:08:07] <archivist> mount a level to gantry traverse your table limits to check for twisting
[13:08:35] <ctjctj> For doing final cuts I use 1/8" round nose which has so little area touching the surface that I get very good results.
[13:08:44] <ctjctj> archivist: thank you. I will use that method as well.
[13:09:06] <archivist> adjust mounting feet to get rid of twist (twist to parallel )
[13:09:11] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, installing ngcgui was a breese... now what? :D
[13:09:42] <ctjctj> Remember this is for wood working where most things are "good enough" if they are good to 1/32" and I'm being an arse and trying for 1/4000 of an inch. *GRIN*
[13:09:56] <ctjctj> actually in wood working 1/32 is over kill.
[13:10:32] <Tom_itx> maybe in construction :)
[13:10:50] <archivist> ctjctj, seen the accuracy arguments on the woodworking mailing list oldtools :)
[13:11:22] <ctjctj> archivist: Most of what I know about cnc routing is from reading linuxcnc/emc2 manuals, cnc zone and just "doing it"
[13:11:27] <archivist> a 1/32 gap is noticeable!
[13:11:43] <Tom_itx> that's what wood filler is for
[13:11:45] <Tom_itx> right?
[13:11:53] <archivist> Im only stirring :)
[13:11:59] <Tom_itx> me too
[13:12:24] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: thats way it works
[13:12:25] <roycroft> i strive for 1/128" when woodworking, and settle for 1/64" for fine work
[13:12:43] <IchGuckLive> what is your main goal to reatch ctjctj
[13:12:46] <roycroft> 1/32" is a huge chasm
[13:13:09] <ctjctj> archivist: *grins* It is all relative. I get teased by my friends because I use a dial callipers and try for <5/1000s
[13:13:23] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: PCB 2D 3D
[13:13:28] <ctjctj> That's for building cabinets and counters and such.
[13:14:13] <ctjctj> If I was making a micro box 1/32 would be a huge gap. For PCB work it would be unacceptable at every level. But there is a place where you can't let "perfection" get in the way of "good enough" *GRIN*
[13:14:29] <Tom_itx> where?
[13:14:32] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: thinks like that http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmUfCLiY4lT8ZKidhvdVQUhw3EurAeLrsg00nmvU2YXMwxUJz1
[13:15:18] <Gigs-> wood warps more than 1/32nd the day after you cut it
[13:15:26] <ctjctj> IchGuckLive: Yes. Things like that.
[13:15:43] <IchGuckLive> table top milling woudt be cheeper bettter and faster
[13:15:48] <ctjctj> But I use the router to make 3D cut outs to put on the doors or carve into the door.
[13:16:01] <IchGuckLive> ah
[13:16:10] <IchGuckLive> then it is wright
[13:17:40] <ctjctj> At some point I'll get a table that is big enough for a whole sheet of plywood/MDF. Then use the CNC to do all the cut outs for the cabinets. Mill any drawer fronts or panels that can be in MDF.
[13:17:46] <IchGuckLive> older then me milling in the 19Hundreds http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAC41LLJjDOV8_H_XGDk1hFTngzqAWn7xreNAu7-LBah-4iSpi
[13:18:31] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: china build 3D wood router for that is less then 3K
[13:18:50] <ctjctj> But I still do most of my faces and doors/panels on stand alone machinery. I.e. a jointer, planner, table saw. Gluing up panels is a pain in the rump but the results are nice. (oh and my shaper)
[13:19:02] <Gigs-> ctj why would you care about precision with plywood and MDF?
[13:20:13] <Gigs-> Do you have a table shaper?
[13:20:26] <Gigs-> oh you mentioned that in parentheses
[13:20:35] <ctjctj> IchGuckLive: I've got $50 for the frame of the CNC. $30 for hardware, $75 for stepper drivers. another $80 for the threaded rods and nuts. And then $100 for the stepper moters.
[13:21:20] <ctjctj> So less than $400 so far into this thing and it cuts wood. That's pretty amazing from my point of view. Thanks to the EMC2/Linuxcnc crowd.
[13:21:28] <Gigs-> my dad ran his thumb into the shaper once when doing raised panel door panels
[13:21:51] <Gigs-> he's got a thick stubby thumb on that hand now with a messed up fingernail, and can't feel much through it
[13:21:52] <ctjctj> (computer was free, picked it up at the local computer store as a computer they were paying to be disposed)
[13:21:52] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: self made is the best
[13:22:25] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: messurments of the axis ?
[13:22:42] <ctjctj> Once this thing cuts "good enough" I'll re build parts of it using some linear bearings I rescued from a sun microsystem tape library.
[13:23:09] <ctjctj> X has a cutting bed of just over 30 inches, Y is 15 inches, Z is 6 inches.
[13:23:47] <IchGuckLive> thats awaysome
[13:23:50] <ctjctj> The X is easily extended another 6 to 12 inches but any more than that and the bearing rods will start to have to much bend in the middle. :-(
[13:24:25] <ctjctj> The design actually gives you a bit more than what I ended up with. I upgraded from a rotozip spindle to a PC 690 spindle.
[13:25:07] <ctjctj> The power supply is a bit weak at 25volts so my rapids and cuts are at a max of 30 IPM.
[13:25:29] <ctjctj> I *can* rapid at 60ipm but that is not safe for the machine. (or me)
[13:25:58] <IchGuckLive> 48V is best
[13:26:41] <IchGuckLive> all cnc supplyr got that
[13:26:51] <IchGuckLive> ctjctj: where are you from
[13:27:27] <ctjctj> 42v is max on the HobbyCNC chopper driver board. The power supply was free from a friend. HUGE beast, stable as hell.
[13:27:35] <ctjctj> I'm in NH, US.
[13:28:03] <IchGuckLive> ok im off and from germany O.O B)
[13:29:13] <dave_1> So ... the ongoing saga..
[13:30:17] <dave_1> finished 10.04 install, removed CD ... reboot and it comes up to a screen about the i/o controller and never boots
[13:31:05] <dave_1> formatting the CF I specified / should I have picked /boot?
[13:31:16] <dave_1> or am I really missing something
[13:32:05] <ctjctj> dave_1: do you know that your computer can boot from the CF drive? My guess is that the CF presents as a USB device.
[13:32:48] <dave_1> Hmmmm. that may be even tho it is plugged into a sata port
[13:33:09] <Jymmm> No, a CF is ELECTRICALLY the same as an IDE hdd
[13:33:25] <ctjctj> CF == compact flash?
[13:33:28] <Jymmm> nothign to do with USB at all.
[13:33:39] <Jymmm> Yes CF == compact FLash
[13:33:49] <pcw_home> and if its on a SATA /IDE bridge it is a SATA device
[13:34:09] <dave_1> so did I screw up in formatting
[13:34:25] <ctjctj> Jymmm: It depends on what the CF reader is plugged into. If the CF *READER* is plugged into a usb reader than the CF presents as a USB block device.
[13:34:45] <ctjctj> If it is plugged into an IDE/SATA reader than it presents as a IDE/SATA drive.
[13:34:55] <Jymmm> ctjctj: I'm not talking about a "reader". I'm talking about a CF to IDE adpater.
[13:34:59] <ctjctj> It is the reader that determines if linux sees it as a USB device or not.
[13:35:03] <dave_1> I have one of Peters CF 10 adapteres
[13:35:29] <dave_1> sata data and power
[13:35:35] <ctjctj> Ok. Jymmm so dave_1 is using a IDE/SATA reader. then it should look like a sata/ide drive.
[13:35:37] <Jymmm> like this http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/US0Kd1JOqM7jHk85CCWV9HKAG2F3FSwjCnWnsZPCOYprtgTDoFWASiK9i0UWkO3pOraLk-Aei9T0t9aNKBdnaIr56nwGFp8Q-j0-NUy8-EioFrESHZPkL8H-gJKolHWz3fwF2PUC6AumKpk3GqxJ_0vbp-H_FCDbaYWe1FMEi5fb
[13:35:40] <ctjctj> Does it show up in your bios?
[13:35:53] <Jymmm> dave_1: link?
[13:36:31] <Jymmm> If it's a CF/SD/IDE/SATA to USB, then it shows up as an USB device
[13:36:58] <dave_1> have not checked ... let me go see what I can find out
[13:37:03] <dave_1> brb
[13:37:18] <Jymmm> dave_1: does this connect to USB port?
[13:37:25] <ctjctj> Jymmm: *grins* It is good to have arguments with somebody that knows what the are talking about.
[13:38:40] <Jymmm> See, in old skool days when systems couldn't boot from USB, you could STILL use CF2IDE adapter as they are elecrically the same as an IDE hdd.
[13:38:57] <ctjctj> Yep.
[13:39:05] <archivist> Jymmm, read scroll back!
[13:39:08] <Jymmm> Then you could have a hdd-less system, but you had to make it RO.
[13:39:30] <Jymmm> as CF dont really like that many write cycles.
[13:39:35] <ctjctj> I agree with that 100%. But most people today use CF readers that are "all in one" and plug into the USB port.
[13:40:00] <Jymmm> ctjctj: Sure, those show up as USB devices
[13:40:12] <ctjctj> There are a couple of OSes that can reside on CFs safely. I'm not sure ubuntu is designed for that.
[13:40:27] <ctjctj> Jymmm: yep. Which is what I was asking dave_1 about.
[13:40:34] <Jymmm> Knoppix as it's Live OS
[13:41:00] <Jymmm> or pretty much any Live distro
[13:41:12] <Gigs-> you should turn off atime on the file system and probably set up the kernel so it doesn't do sync writes every few seconds
[13:41:14] <ctjctj> If he has a CF to IDE adapter then he has to be able to see it as a drive under bios for the boot to happen. If it is USB then he has to be able to boot from a USB.
[13:41:31] <Gigs-> otherwise you will write cycle the CF to death
[13:42:35] <Jymmm> Gigs-: *I* dont even bother, I only use a live distro and maybe a small area for saving the config, which is only written to when changes are made to the config.
[13:43:35] <ctjctj> Jymmm: I found that the boot time on the live distro was painful. So I put an old IDE drive in the free box. Ended up with so much space it is now my music server for the workshop.
[13:44:01] <Jymmm> how long does jbweld take to fully cure? pkg says 4-6 hours, but it's still a tad soft.
[13:44:14] <Gigs-> it's an overnight kind of thing
[13:44:20] <Jymmm> ctjctj: how many times do you boot up?
[13:44:41] <Jymmm> Gigs-: it's been 18 hours
[13:44:54] <ctjctj> Jymmm: Normally turn off the computer in the workshop. So about every other day.
[13:45:03] <ctjctj> Just painful boot times and easy cheap fix.
[13:45:12] <Jymmm> ctjctj: and you can't puch a button and grab a cup of coffee?
[13:45:18] <ctjctj> jymm: Sounds to me like the JBweld wasn't mixed right.
[13:45:52] <Jymmm> ctjctj: it was mixed 100%, though I didn't weight it out
[13:45:55] <ctjctj> Jymmm: *grins* Yes, I could. But on the other hand I can now just walk in, punch the button and by the time I get the lights set up and documents out the system is up and ready for music or maching.
[13:46:03] * fragalot bounces something squishy off of Jymmm
[13:46:27] <Gigs-> Jymmm: your live distro might turn off atime and minimize writes anyway (no logging etc)
[13:46:28] <Jymmm> fragalot: make it a redhead with 36C's
[13:47:09] * fragalot bounces a 200lbs redhead with 36 C's on her maths tests off of Jymmm
[13:47:10] <Jymmm> perky ones!
[13:50:47] <Jymmm> Using a miter saw makes quick work of cutting aluminum channel, but man the chips go EVERYWHERE.
[13:52:15] <dave_1> I'm back ... fallback position for now is 160 Gb sata where I can do a vanilla install
[13:52:33] <ctjctj> Jymmm: JBweld web site says 15-24 hours for full cure. 18hrs is still inside that window of "not yet cured". So if you got the ratios correct and mixed correctly your only issue is one of patience. I'd give you some but I have none.
[13:52:45] <ctjctj> dave_1: is it a USB reader or an IDE adapter?
[13:53:01] <dave_1> epoxies cure very nicely at 170 F
[13:54:11] <dave_1> as far as I can tell it is usb ... on this board I could shift off to ide as I also have an ide card for the CF
[13:54:26] <dave_1> however the final target is a D525 with no ide
[13:55:00] <dave_1> the standard hard drive will tell us if we can boot off the sata.
[13:55:02] <ctjctj> dave_1: so the question is, can your current test machine boot from USB? If so do you have a USB BOOT on that CF .
[13:55:42] <dave_1> no ... just the standard install off of live cd
[13:56:06] <ctjctj> IIRC you need a special boot to boot from floopy. Hold one.
[13:56:08] <Jymmm> dave_1: link to this adapter of yours?
[13:56:20] <ctjctj> boot from usb. A floppy boot i think.
[13:57:58] <mrsun> oh damn, i guess that somewhere in the ballpark where the bouble isnt smacked against a face of the machinist level is "good enough" :P 2 lines of error = 0.02/1000 * 200 * 2 == 0.008mm ... thats not much .. not much at all :P
[13:58:46] <dave_1> CF to sata adapter is mesa
[13:58:56] <dave_1> http://www.mesanet.com/
[13:59:18] <dave_1> look under disk emulators ... top one the 10
[13:59:45] <Jymmm> http://www.mesanet.com/diskcardinfo.html
[14:00:22] <dave_1> big as life
[14:00:28] <Jymmm> the CFADPT10? That should show up as a SATA device
[14:00:45] <ctjctj> If that is what you are using the CF should show up as a sata device under your bios. Have you verified that?
[14:01:20] <pcw_home> Power and link light?
[14:03:23] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Your CF2IDe are all passive devices?
[14:03:34] <pcw_home> Yes
[14:03:37] <Jymmm> k
[14:03:53] <mrsun> seems the bench is far to flimsy ... just leaning against it throws the reading off by alot ... or is that normal ? :P
[14:04:05] <mrsun> i guess its kinda high precision stuff so it can feel most things =)
[14:04:07] <pcw_home> well some have voltage regulators
[14:04:20] <Jymmm> pcw_home: yeah, that's no biggy
[14:04:32] <Jymmm> pcw_home: why though?
[14:05:12] <pcw_home> Needed by some non-compliant CF cards
[14:05:19] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ah, ok.
[14:05:45] <pcw_home> (guarantees no more than 3.3v I/O signals)
[14:06:03] <Jymmm> pcw_home: gotcha =)
[14:06:13] <mrsun> seems the bed has a dip in it where its been run alot ... in the ends ive got the exact same reading on the level now, but in the middle its off by quite a bit
[14:07:05] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I *SO* much want to get rid of everything IDE/CF. Hell I have an old Disk on Module that I keep around for some damn reason.
[14:08:27] <archivist> mrsun, I have a feeling you may get the scraping tool out again :)
[14:08:42] <mrsun> archivist, haha :P
[14:08:57] <mrsun> nothing wrong with making machines straight is it? :P
[14:09:06] <archivist> nope
[14:09:25] <Jymmm> mrsun: unless the ground is at 10 degrees =)
[14:09:28] <mrsun> but these machinist levels are redicilous =)
[14:09:36] <mrsun> Jymmm, huh ? :)
[14:09:43] <Jymmm> mrsun: jk
[14:10:01] <mrsun> ahh if the machine is leaning 10 degrees and i scrape it straight? :P
[14:10:06] <archivist> machine levels are nice toys!
[14:10:15] <Jymmm> mrsun: Now you get it =)
[14:10:57] <mrsun> archivist, they will get my blood preasure up by a factor of 10 or so :P
[14:11:03] <Jymmm> mrsun: Just use what the pyramid builders used.
[14:12:10] <mrsun> hmm, damn got a good idea for making structures truly level ... build a wall around the work sight, fill with water and put in the "columns" or whatever so they just break the water surface
[14:12:40] <mrsun> and voila, a truly level surface to work from =)
[14:12:51] <Jymmm> mrsun: Or, a clear plastic hose
[14:13:12] <mrsun> Jymmm, then i do not get to drive machines .... :P
[14:13:16] <dave_1> the cdrom I'm installing from is declared as a plain cdrom ... not usb or sata and it boots just fine
[14:13:28] <andypugh> mrsun: A cunning plan. So cunning that the Ancient Egyptians used it.
[14:13:44] <mrsun> andypugh, hehe =)
[14:13:53] <mrsun> i guessed it was something like that they did =)
[14:14:07] <mrsun> dig a ditch around the worksight, fill it with water and you got a level over however big surface you want
[14:14:16] <dave_1> you want level on a bet ... put a long pan of water on the bed and then Z down until a tool just breaks the surface tension
[14:14:30] <dave_1> bet//bed
[14:15:40] <Gigs-> I don't know if the surface tension break would be consistent enough
[14:15:51] <Gigs-> you ever seen the "magic" trick with the shot glass and dimes?
[14:16:16] <Gigs-> you fill a shot glass completely full of water and then wager with someone regarding how many dimes you can drop in before it overflows
[14:16:26] <Gigs-> it takes like 20-25 dimes if you are careful
[14:26:23] <dave_1> bbl
[14:36:32] <mrsun> there are some stupid dents in the bed also aparently ... maybe should use the carriage as a master and scrape those away atleast =)
[14:36:38] <mrsun> feeling the scraping hand itching :P
[14:41:28] <mrsun> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=44274 <-- that was a nice bench =)
[14:42:00] <Connor> WAS ?
[14:42:16] <mrsun> is ... i guess then
[14:42:28] <mrsun> or "thats a nice lathe stand"
[14:42:39] <mrsun> im swedish ... and i write english as a swede :P
[14:42:50] <Connor> Ah.
[14:42:57] <Connor> Is and Was, Present and Past tense.
[14:43:31] <mrsun> that design should be stolen
[14:43:45] <mrsun> tho think 1.5mm thick walled 50x50mm may be enough for a BS600 ? :)
[14:44:14] <Connor> I've not seen a BS600, so, I don't know
[14:44:36] <Connor> that a lathe or mill ?
[14:44:39] <mrsun> oh might be named like that when its a blomqvist =)
[14:44:41] <mrsun> Connor, lathe
[14:44:51] <mrsun> 4 1/2 inch south bend then ? :)
[14:44:56] <mrsun> its the same machine basicly
[14:45:33] <Connor> So, 9 Inch by what length ?
[14:45:52] <mrsun> 9 inch ? :)
[14:45:58] <mrsun> what is 9 inch ? :P
[14:46:16] <mrsun> the length i think is like 120cm ... or about 48" i guess that is? :)
[14:46:16] <Connor> 4 1/2" is from center of chuck to bed right ?
[14:46:18] <Jymmm> |<-- 9" -->|
[14:46:46] <mrsun> Connor, i would guess that its that they mean yes .. im kinda new in the lathe game =9
[14:46:48] <Connor> in US, we Do Diameter, not radius on Lathe to denote the swing.
[14:46:58] <Connor> so, 9" x 48"
[14:47:41] <Connor> That's a long lathe with small swing..
[14:47:50] <Jymmm> That lathe stand pic.... the shop is WAY TOO DMAN clea and neat
[14:48:14] <Connor> http://www.grizzly.com/products/8K-8-x-18-Lathe/SB1001
[14:48:57] <mrsun> the length betwene centers is 600 or 1000 depending on model .. not surea bout mine
[14:49:03] <mrsun> thats millimeters
[14:49:28] <Connor> not sure, as in you don't have it yet ?
[14:49:49] <mrsun> i have it but its in the cellar :P
[14:49:59] <mrsun> i can go measure just for you :P
[14:50:10] <Connor> 600 = 23.6" 1000 = 39.37"
[14:51:48] <mrsun> 600mm center to center, the whole lathes base is about 1050mm
[14:52:33] <Connor> okay, that sounds better with 9" swing.
[14:53:29] <Connor> 50mm x 50mm box ?
[14:53:41] <Connor> for it to sit on ?
[14:53:57] <mrsun> the tubing yes, its what i got laying around ... so building a frame like that out of that material
[14:54:48] <Jymmm> Heh, fancy... http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sliding-compound-miter-saws/kapex-ks-120-sliding-compound-miter-saw-561287.html
[14:55:07] <Connor> okay, so, your talking 2" x .06"
[14:55:18] <Connor> the thickness has me concerned.
[14:55:42] <Connor> I would want at least 3mm thick.
[14:55:47] <mrsun> i think it was 1.5mm either that or 2mm
[14:56:01] <Jymmm> Ok, is it my understanding that there ARE bearings that sorta act like an offset cam of sorts, or am I confusing that with something else?
[14:56:05] <mrsun> Connor, hmm ok
[14:56:14] <Connor> Steel on alum ?
[14:56:18] <mrsun> Connor, steel
[14:56:59] <Connor> I dunno.. I would do a load test on 1050mm span supported on either end and see how much deflection you got..
[14:57:29] <Connor> reality is, the ENDS of the stand is were the load will be..
[14:57:57] <Connor> and you'll have uprights in those.. so, with enough bracing, you should be good. You going to weld, or bolt it ?
[14:58:09] <mrsun> Connor, weld
[14:58:50] <Connor> I probably would put gusset plates in the inside corners just to make sure it didn't rip.
[14:59:49] <Connor> The heft of that stand you linked looks like 1/8" minimum. (~ 3.125mm)
[15:00:33] <Connor> No wait. It's thicker.. look at the right side.. you can see the ends of the inside uprights
[15:00:49] <Connor> that's at least 1/4" thick.
[15:00:52] <mrsun> Connor, says 3/16"
[15:01:04] <Jymmm> lol
[15:01:07] <Connor> okay.
[15:01:10] <Connor> I didn't read it. :)
[15:01:13] <Connor> I was looking.
[15:01:24] <Connor> so, I was close.
[15:01:25] <Connor> :){
[15:01:35] <mrsun> and thats closer to 5mm
[15:01:36] * Jymmm looks at Connor and just shakes his head
[15:01:54] <mrsun> more then double mine :P
[15:02:26] <Connor> Jymmm: Hush. :)
[15:02:41] <Jymmm> Connor: the shame of it all.
[15:02:51] <Jymmm> tsk tsk tsk
[15:06:49] <Jymmm> ;)
[15:10:27] <andypugh> Jymmm can you be more clear about the bearings you mean?
[15:10:41] <andypugh> What sort of application?
[15:13:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: I want to be able to use a (stepper?) motor to push up/down on a lever. I *thought* I heard there were "offset" bearings I could pick up off the shelf already.
[15:14:17] <mrsun> Connor, i guess adding cross members at the legs/backside of the bench wouldnt be to bad either? :)
[15:14:33] <Connor> Probably not.
[15:14:36] <mrsun> got 25x25mm so two of those crossing eachother ends up quite nice :P
[15:15:03] <andypugh> Jymmm: Some timing-belt tensioners are close.
[15:15:52] <andypugh> http://syzbearing.en.made-in-china.com/product/ebWnFmlobzkR/China-MITSUBISHI-Tensioner-Bearing-MD182537-.html
[15:16:43] <Jymmm> andypugh: I wouldn't know what to ask for in an autoparts store and not like they have CAD drawings =)
[15:17:42] <mrsun> hmm, maybe i should make "tilting" or whatever feet for the bench, balljoint =)
[15:18:04] <mrsun> so they take up irregularities in the floor when setting down
[15:20:56] <andypugh> Jymmm: Well, they exist: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/313444619/Eccentric_bearing_50712200.html
[15:21:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: and MUCH cheaper than timeing belt tensior
[15:22:30] <JT-Shop> my timing belt tensioner is a SHCS or two
[15:22:53] <Jymmm> Eccentric bearings
[15:25:19] <Jymmm> Just cant find any on this continent
[15:26:22] <Jymmm> heh, threaded bearing http://www.toolup.com/kett_60-24_18-gauge-eccentric-bearing-assembly.aspx?&utm_source=CAfroogle&utm_medium=CA&CAWELAID=1168985982
[15:26:58] <JT-Shop> eccentric bearings are designed to be keyed to a shaft to transmit motion
[15:27:30] <Jymmm> and that's what I'm looking for, but I want to select the motion =)
[15:29:22] <andypugh> Probably easier just to press a bearing onto your own eccentric.
[15:29:43] <Jymmm> if I had a lathe to make the cam, sure =)
[15:30:30] <mrsun> hmm, hockey pucks or whatever they are called, are they any good as machine feet? :)
[15:30:30] <andypugh> Get a lathe.
[15:31:01] <andypugh> Is it just me, or do digital calipers spend about 90% of the time flashing the low batery warning?
[15:31:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: Getting a lathe is the CHEAP part, it's getting all the tooling and accessories that will nickle and dime you to death =)
[15:31:20] <mrsun> andypugh, dont let them get low battery :P
[15:31:34] <mrsun> mine has been flashing the better part of a year :P
[15:31:40] <Connor> What in the world would you use that bearing for ?
[15:32:02] <mrsun> Jymmm, amen to that!
[15:32:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: My "digital" DIAL calipers never ever flash =)
[15:32:20] <andypugh> A new battery lasts a couple of weeks, then it flashes for the next year or so.
[15:33:20] <andypugh> Jymmm: You seem to be trying to do lathe-jobs without a lathe, though.
[15:33:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm trying to find off the shelf parts so I dont need 1) lathe, 2) build a custom part
[15:35:44] <andypugh> But you seem to be making a custom machine.
[15:35:47] <jdhNC> everyone should have a lathe.
[15:36:18] <Jymmm> jdhNC: I'm happy to have one, Insert YOUR credit card here --> [ ]
[15:36:24] <andypugh> I think I have seen eccentric track roller bearings, but couldn't find them.
[15:37:23] <Jymmm> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/cam-followers-and-track-rollers/bearings/power-transmission/ecatalog/N-i9f
[15:39:19] <Jymmm> I'm not eaxctly sure how those work, I think the shaft is offset on the back side
[15:39:46] <Jymmm> But I cna't figure out how to detemrin the min/max movement
[15:39:54] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:39:55] <JT-Shop> well crap, the encoders on the BP knee mill are differential and wired up to the plug at the servo but by the time you get to the electrical cabinet they lose the A/ B/ and Z/ wires
[15:40:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: fox and hound
[15:40:29] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you don't need a lathe to make an eccentric bushing
[15:41:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: do tell
[15:42:03] <JT-Shop> a piece of round stock and a drill press and a little careful measuring and drilling and you have an eccentric
[15:42:04] <mrsun> take a round, drill a hole off center in it ? :P
[15:42:11] <JT-Shop> aye
[15:42:23] <Tom_itx> there are a few eccentrics here too
[15:42:32] <Jymmm> I still need an edge for the bearing to sit on
[15:42:45] <JT-Shop> so bolt it on
[15:42:54] <andypugh> Loctite
[15:42:57] <andypugh> Or press fit
[15:43:15] <JT-Shop> a washer will work
[15:43:20] <mrsun> press fit without a lathe? :)
[15:43:30] <JT-Shop> yea
[15:43:41] <JT-Shop> beat up the od till it is a press fit
[15:44:07] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm an 8lb sledge
[15:44:17] <Jymmm> I dont have an issue doing ghetto work, but trying to make a cam that doens't wobble all over the place with *my* drillpress is not gonna happen.
[15:44:56] <JT-Shop> just depends on your skill and determination
[15:45:12] <Tom_itx> i missed out.. what's the cam for?
[15:45:18] <JT-Shop> dunno
[15:45:19] <Jymmm> Or, just buy one off the shelf
[15:45:50] <JT-Shop> if you can find the one you want...
[15:46:14] <Jymmm> Right now, it just seems the name of it is in question.
[15:46:15] <JT-Shop> so what in the heck are you building?
[15:46:35] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, you ever use camlocks to hold material down?
[15:47:09] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: a simple clamp using a (stepper?) motor
[15:47:25] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx yes
[15:47:52] <Tom_itx> this made me think of that
[15:47:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the cam will press down on a lever
[15:48:04] <Tom_itx> which is what it sounds like what he's doing
[15:48:29] <JT-Shop> sounds iffy to me
[15:48:53] <Tom_itx> installing ngcgui was a breese
[15:49:04] <Tom_itx> now wtf do i do with it?
[15:49:08] <JT-Shop> you try it out yet?
[15:49:14] <Tom_itx> no, it was late
[15:49:19] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: lathe or mill?
[15:49:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's actually much simpler than it sounds.
[15:49:24] <Tom_itx> mill
[15:49:40] <JT-Shop> I just uploaded a mill subroutine to the forum
[15:49:41] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, like a car lifter?
[15:49:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: floor jack?
[15:49:54] <Tom_itx> i don't get on the forum
[15:50:00] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, no
[15:50:03] <Tom_itx> valve lifter
[15:50:21] <JT-Shop> they won't let you on?
[15:50:29] <Tom_itx> i didn't try
[15:50:31] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Kinda, but nothing anywhere near that kind of force.
[15:51:01] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop i prefer instant gratification
[15:51:04] <JT-Shop> ngcgui forum http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=showcat&catid=40
[15:51:13] <JT-Shop> I noticed lol
[15:51:18] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:51:39] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: a 10 LB weight could do the same.
[15:52:06] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, counterbore?
[15:52:10] * JT-Shop wonders if A finish cleaning off the desk or B making some parts or C start drinking would be best
[15:52:18] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: yea
[15:52:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: D: BBQ, Boose, and Broads!
[15:53:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: The Broads have the D's of course
[15:53:16] <JT-Shop> my girl friend is napping behind the lazyboy atm
[15:53:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: dont tell your wives about her
[15:53:54] <JT-Shop> or my hoe
[15:54:20] <Jymmm> Is is considered cheating when oyu go out with your girlfirned behind your mistresses back?
[15:54:22] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: there is some probing routines too
[15:54:39] <JT-Shop> just bring them both Jymmm
[15:54:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, good idea =)
[15:55:11] <JT-Shop> I think I'll opt for B and C and save A for later
[15:56:05] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: there are some sample subroutines but some get confusing fast as they call other subroutines
[15:58:07] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=nc_files/ngcgui_lib;h=d9d7921c5a4508c37bcfd9284bccc6e748fe050c;hb=refs/heads/v2.5_branch
[15:59:23] <Tom_itx> i grabbed some probing routines the other day
[15:59:27] <Tom_itx> i forget who's they were
[15:59:35] <Tom_itx> don't have a probe wired up yet
[16:00:18] <Tom_itx> are those part of the 2.5 install?
[16:01:01] <Tom_itx> i noticed ngcgui is now
[16:05:55] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have a link to these "camlocks" you were speaking of? All I get are cabinet key locks
[16:06:36] <Tom_itx> umm, mcmaster carr probably has them
[16:06:52] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: link?
[16:07:00] <Tom_itx> we used them on tooling plates
[16:07:07] <Tom_itx> i didn't look
[16:07:09] <Tom_itx> but i can
[16:07:32] <Jymmm> I'd appreciate it, just to make sure we're on the smae page, but no rush
[16:07:34] <Tom_itx> err maybe it was carr lane
[16:07:36] <Tom_itx> i forget
[16:08:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.carrlane.com/pdfcatalog/
[16:08:41] <Tom_itx> they probably have them
[16:09:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.carrlane.com/pdfcatalog/pdf/clamps_and_accessories.pdf
[16:09:50] <Tom_itx> start on P29
[16:10:04] <roycroft> cdctools.com
[16:10:10] <roycroft> enter "cam lock" in the search window
[16:10:22] <roycroft> cdcotools.com, rather
[16:12:50] <Jymmm> I'll probably have to do whay JT-Shop suggested, but I'm not sure how with my drillpress and not be shit
[16:13:01] <Tom_itx> P.52 also
[16:13:33] <Jymmm> Yeah, I need a MUCH bigger stroke than any of those would provide but thanks =)
[16:13:50] <Tom_itx> if it's made, they have it
[16:14:55] <Tom_itx> what about a toggle clamp?
[16:15:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how would I attache a motor to that?
[16:15:23] <roycroft> carr lane is one of my favorite fixture catalogs
[16:15:23] <Jymmm> attach
[16:15:37] <Tom_itx> like a piston rod
[16:15:47] <Tom_itx> i don't know what you're trying to do
[16:16:53] <Jymmm> I want to be able to use a (stepper?) motor to push up/down on a lever.
[16:17:03] <Tom_itx> http://www.carrlane.com/pdfcatalog/pdf/toggle_clamps.pdf
[16:17:10] <Tom_itx> there's the toggle clamp pdf
[16:17:39] <Tom_itx> look under 'air powered clamps'
[16:18:25] <Tom_itx> maybe you want a linear slide instead of a stepper
[16:20:02] <Tom_itx> P.12
[16:20:25] <Tom_itx> no
[16:20:30] <Tom_itx> that's not what i thought it was
[16:21:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: that sounds so Rube Goldberg it ain't funny, just use a pneumatic cylinder
[16:23:51] <Tom_itx> P.71
[16:23:59] <Tom_itx> starts the air clamps
[16:24:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I went thru the links you provided me the other day. To use a pneumatic cylinder is gonna cost me hundreds in parts, fittings, not to mention an air source. and that's for only one portion of an eventually more elaborate setup which I suspect will get into the thousands (per your "quotation" =)
[16:24:53] <JT-Shop> so for now just use a toggle clamp then
[16:25:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It has to cycle every 20 seconds.
[16:25:11] <andypugh> Jymmm: eBay
[16:25:22] <Tom_itx> hire a little chinese girl to run the clamp
[16:25:54] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I already have the manual labor part resolved. but that's limited qty.
[16:26:04] <djdelorie> Jymmm: check out andymark.com - they have small pneumatic systems for the FIRST robotics stuff
[16:26:22] <Tom_itx> you could mod any number of those clamps to work on a stepper
[16:26:34] <Tom_itx> put a wheel on the stepper with a 'piston rod'
[16:27:06] <JT-Shop> I wish I had 20 seconds to cycle a machine... we get 5 at the most
[16:27:41] <Jymmm> maybe I'll have to hit techshop,
[16:27:52] <Tom_itx> i ran 6000 fuel caps a shift on those old bar machines
[16:28:11] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you get 5 seconds or 5 minutes?
[16:28:16] <Tom_itx> about 6 bars an hour iirc
[16:28:24] <Tom_itx> he takes 5 min
[16:28:29] <Tom_itx> he gets 5 sec
[16:28:39] <JT-Shop> 5 seconds max
[16:29:19] <Jymmm> Well, I'm being generous... Clamp, heat, cool, release.
[16:31:40] <Tom_itx> http://www.carrlane.com/pdfcatalog/pdf/swiftsure.pdf
[16:31:43] <Tom_itx> P.29
[16:31:46] <Tom_itx> swing clamps
[16:33:40] <Tom_itx> air powered start on 34
[16:33:51] <Gigs-> So I did some poking around after you all universally encouraged me to go with a 4th axis system... I'm not seeing many CAM options for 4th axis for linux
[16:33:55] <Gigs-> any recommendations?
[16:34:30] <Tom_itx> what do you want to spend?
[16:35:08] <Gigs-> hmmm... could go between 500-1000 if I had to, rather open source but I don't think that's an option
[16:35:50] <Tom_itx> i haven't looked at open source or next to free so i don't know about those
[16:37:00] <Jymmm> what s a good source for a rotary table for a mini/micro mill?
[16:37:15] <Tom_itx> i liked the one syyl_ made
[16:37:35] <Jymmm> and do they mostly go 0-360, or can you keep going round and round all day long?
[16:37:44] <Tom_itx> mostly back and forth
[16:37:48] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: are you considering my price range as "next to free" as well?
[16:37:58] <Jymmm> syyl_: ok, what did you make?
[16:37:59] <Tom_itx> no chance
[16:38:11] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, he used a harmonic drive
[16:38:15] <Gigs-> ?
[16:38:25] <Tom_itx> http://www.smartcamcnc.com/product_info.php
[16:38:29] <Tom_itx> that's what i used to use
[16:38:29] <Gigs-> I guess I better learn g-code heh
[16:38:38] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: any links to pics of what he made?
[16:38:43] <Tom_itx> most of what you would probably do with it would be index moves
[16:38:44] <syyl_> Jymmm
[16:38:45] <syyl_> http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=5870
[16:38:51] <Tom_itx> Jymmm yup
[16:38:53] <Tom_itx> ^^
[16:38:57] <syyl_> every piece of information you need :P
[16:39:27] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, you can figure index moves pretty easy
[16:39:57] <Tom_itx> unless you're gonna cut jet fan blades you won't likely need them synch'd
[16:40:10] <Jymmm> syyl_: Except where is the "BUY IT NOW" button for the FINISHED product =)
[16:40:16] <Tom_itx> haha
[16:40:18] <syyl_> "make it yourself"
[16:40:26] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: by index you mean, rotate to a position then make a normal cut?
[16:40:33] <Tom_itx> yeah
[16:40:34] <syyl_> and you wont pay what i would charge
[16:40:56] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: yeah, my dad mentioned possibly cutting gun stocks though, but that's kind of blue sky at this point
[16:41:05] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: I guess something like that would require the full monty
[16:41:47] <andypugh> syyl_: I just had an interesting idea. You could make some lathe-style jaws to fit the T-slots.
[16:42:01] <syyl_> mh thats not bad :o
[16:42:24] <syyl_> good point that the slots are machined to a close fit :)
[16:42:41] <andypugh> I think you could operate them fairly easily with some half-tapped holes. like they use on taperlock bushes.
[16:42:58] <syyl_> interesting idea
[16:43:03] <syyl_> i will take a note :D
[16:43:25] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: so save me the time of emailing smartcnc sales... what ballpark is that cost wise
[16:43:37] <Tom_itx> it was about 8k when i got it
[16:43:39] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: what does the lever do?
[16:43:45] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: thanks
[16:44:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Acts as the top part of the clamp.
[16:44:04] <Tom_itx> for back then what was called freeform machining
[16:44:14] <JT-Shop> clamping what?
[16:44:23] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, the lathe and mill packages are separate
[16:44:41] <Tom_itx> and come in i guess you would say 'difficulty' steps
[16:44:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: bascially plastic tubing
[16:44:53] <JT-Shop> for your heat sealer?
[16:44:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: yeah
[16:45:06] <Tom_itx> there's the basic 3d machining package then there's freeform
[16:45:17] <JT-Shop> are you going to be holding the tubing when it clamps
[16:45:29] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, i don't know alot about their current product
[16:45:46] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: that's ok
[16:45:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: for the most part, yes. Will be in a fixture.
[16:46:00] <Tom_itx> Gigs-, mastercam is another competetive product
[16:46:01] <Gigs-> Tom_itx: it may have come down a little now that more than 3 axes is almost standard
[16:46:13] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[16:46:21] <JT-Shop> if your standing there then flip the lever and forget about all the rest till it is fully automatic
[16:46:39] <andypugh> Gigs-: Mecsoft might be cheaper, but probably not for 5-axis. http://www.mecsoft.com/
[16:47:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I can do it all manually now. I'm working on the automation aspects.
[16:47:35] <Gigs-> andypugh: I only need 4
[16:47:38] <andypugh> Gigs-: Ah there you are: http://www.mecsoft.com/PriceVisualMILL.shtml
[16:47:48] <JT-Shop> when your ready to automate it do it the simple way
[16:47:55] <Gigs-> andypugh: thanks
[16:47:56] <JT-Shop> what is the stroke?
[16:48:29] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Max stroke (with fudge factor for future use) is 1"
[16:48:38] <Tom_itx> make sure you know how 'modifiable' the post is
[16:48:49] <JT-Shop> have you ever seen a pneumatic cylinder made from flat hose?
[16:49:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Nuh uh
[16:49:01] <andypugh> With rollers?
[16:49:12] <Gigs-> when they call something 2.5 axis they mean no spline-style z contours?
[16:49:22] <JT-Shop> super simple for short strokes if the part your pushing on is guided
[16:49:35] <andypugh> Yes, basically set the Z then mill then change the Z
[16:49:41] <Jymmm> It is using bronze bushings
[16:49:48] <Gigs-> can you still do xz yz basic arcs?
[16:49:55] <JT-Shop> imagine a piece of flat hose with a clamp on one end and a clamp on the other with an air fitting in it
[16:50:16] <andypugh> Gigs-: I don't think so. But I have only used SheetCAM.
[16:50:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: inflate to press
[16:50:25] <JT-Shop> the hose goes between two things and when you pressurize it it will expand
[16:50:39] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, innertube and nylon webbing
[16:50:39] <Gigs-> andypugh: k, because I think gcode can do that just by changing the working plane and issuing a normal arc
[16:50:43] <JT-Shop> yep I've used them and seen them used for many applications
[16:50:53] <Gigs-> andypugh: might not be something they expose in 2.5 programs though
[16:51:04] <andypugh> Yes, and generally I have been hand-writing G-code
[16:51:09] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: usually flat type of hose is used
[16:51:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, I get all that. But, it's controlling the air that starts getting costly, electrical valves and whatnot.
[16:51:33] <andypugh> Gigs-: I think HeeksCNC is the only really Free thing out there. It has to be worth a look.
[16:51:57] <Gigs-> andypugh: I will, thansk
[16:51:59] <JT-Shop> if your going to automate something is ain't gonna be free
[16:52:24] <Tom_itx> depends how inventive you are
[16:52:44] <JT-Shop> yea like Muller you could build your own solenoids
[16:53:01] <Gigs-> check surplus places
[16:53:20] <Gigs-> like http://www.surplussales.com/
[16:53:28] <Gigs-> they have random industrial stuff sometimes
[16:54:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh I know, I'm just going within my needs for now. If I get to the point where I need to cycle every 5 seconds, I'll be at a point where the entire pneumatic costs will not be an issue.
[16:54:02] <andypugh> You see job-lots of pneumatics on eBay all the time too.
[16:54:45] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: And I'm holding you to that quote and you'll have 30 days FOB San Jose Calif =) Ready.... and GO!
[16:55:01] <JT-Shop> so for now you could use a hand lever then a hand valve
[16:55:11] <JT-Shop> can do Jymmm
[16:55:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hell, needle nose and a candle =)
[16:55:33] <JT-Shop> send me 50% down and we will get started
[16:55:47] <JT-Shop> that could be step 1 yes
[16:55:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Check is in the mail =)
[16:56:56] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Actually, if I do get to that point, I hope you have a background in extruders =)
[16:57:02] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop better run a credit check first :)
[16:57:50] <ScribbleJ> What kind of extruders are we talking about?
[16:57:56] <Tom_itx> hamburger
[16:57:58] <Jymmm> polymers
[16:58:07] <ScribbleJ> I just got a shoutout in a 3D printing article, that makes me afternoon.
[16:58:12] <ScribbleJ> s/me/my/
[16:58:37] <ScribbleJ> If you're looking to do FDM style reprap extrusion I might be helpful.
[16:58:49] <ScribbleJ> You are doing something more serious, then I might not be.
[16:58:50] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[16:58:55] <Jymmm> what is "FDM style"?
[16:59:13] <ScribbleJ> fused depostion modeling - like a reprap, as opposed to something that uses light-cured resin.
[16:59:47] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: can it do 100,000 feet in 8 hours?
[17:00:17] <Tom_itx> light cured is cool
[17:00:19] <ScribbleJ> Definitely not - are you talking about 3D printing or making filament?
[17:00:37] <ScribbleJ> It was m light-cured printer that got me the mention in the article. Still have a lot of work to do on it though.
[17:00:56] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: plastic tubing extrution
[17:01:17] <ScribbleJ> Ahh
[17:01:37] <Tom_itx> squirt it out into a cooling tank and reel it up
[17:01:41] <ScribbleJ> That sounds like a fun project but I'm totally not going to be any help. :)
[17:02:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If I hand JT-Shop a check, there will be no "reeling" =)
[17:02:33] <Jymmm> raw materials to finished product.
[17:03:10] <Tom_itx> i went thru wescon products once and got to see all their various lines
[17:03:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.wesconproducts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=3
[17:04:07] <Tom_itx> i don't see their cosmetic or medical listed there anymore, maybe they sold that part off
[17:06:20] <Jymmm> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/index-e.html
[17:08:02] <Tom_itx> i wonder if he lives next door to kenneth maxon
[17:08:29] <Jymmm> Can you buy wear gear and worm wheels? http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/index_table/img_1011.jpg
[17:08:41] <ScribbleJ> That's a neat page.
[17:08:43] <Jymmm> s/wear/worm/
[17:08:50] <ScribbleJ> I like a person who makes all the things and shares his plans.
[17:09:03] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i'm sure you can
[17:09:39] <Tom_itx> stock drive products probably has them
[17:09:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm just neve seen the worm gear on the shaft on the shelf before
[17:09:45] <andypugh> Jymmm: http://www.hpcgears.com/products/worms_wheels.htm
[17:09:52] <Tom_itx> http://www.sdp-si.com/
[17:10:03] <Jymmm> err worm wheel =)
[17:10:24] <Jymmm> cool, thanks guys!
[17:11:09] <Tom_itx> yeah they also have them
[17:11:16] <Tom_itx> can't link though
[17:11:38] <Tom_itx> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=1089&GroupID=175
[17:11:40] <Tom_itx> try that
[17:11:58] <Tom_itx> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.asp?Opener=Group&PartID=311&GroupID=270
[17:12:00] <Jymmm> $15 isn't bad at all
[17:12:45] <Jymmm> so for $15 w/shipping sounds reasonable to me
[17:12:49] <Jymmm> err $50
[17:13:06] <Jymmm> I wonder how much backlash
[17:14:47] <Jymmm> heh "Anti-backlash Worm Wheels are available"
[17:14:49] <Tom_itx> find what pitch you want
[17:15:38] <andypugh> Jymmm: Anti-backlash are two half-worms with a spring.
[17:16:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, just like acme
[17:16:17] <andypugh> http://www.hpcgears.com/products/anti_backlash_wormwheels.htm
[17:16:32] <andypugh> (there is a picture_
[17:16:50] <Jymmm> ty
[17:23:42] <dave38> I'm back ... on different interface
[17:24:29] <dave38> I ignored the sata and went with ide and 160 gb disk and that works!
[17:25:13] <dave38> so 10.04 is up on a dual processor E5300 cpu
[17:26:05] <dave38> not that it is likely to ever run a machine ... but I should test latency while it is configured.
[17:27:49] <tom3p> lawrence livermore had some stuff on anti backlash worms drives https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/222804.pdf.
[17:27:50] <tom3p> iirc we had spring loaded split worms (not split gears ) on some 'c axis' tho.
[17:32:13] <tom3p> like this: http://motionsystemdesign.com/images/Double-enveloping-worm-gear.jpg
[17:34:13] <Spida> sounds like a fine way to increase wear on the teeth...
[17:36:13] <tom3p> dunno, worm & crown were always brass anyways, and we only used low rpm (<600) but fairly high precision .001degree. worked for us
[17:37:20] <dave38> well, there ain't no free lunch. wear vs precision maybe not too bad a tradeoff.
[17:38:25] <dave38> tom3p what kind of load on the gears
[17:39:37] <dave38> it is one thing if they are driving a table for a grating or mirror and another is they have to deliver significant force
[17:41:27] <tom3p> dave EDM caxis.. 'no' load ;)
[17:41:44] <dave38> that does help
[17:41:51] <tom3p> think laser positioning, same diff
[17:42:00] <dave38> yep
[17:50:51] <dave38> Hmmmm! fired up latency test on new cpu .. right away it went to about 20K and 12K
[17:51:43] <dave38> I just reset it and the figures are hovering at about 6K and 5K two instances of glxgears running, moving windows, no web stuff
[17:52:07] <dave38> also no isolation of cpu's
[17:52:09] <Jymmm> tom3p: LLL is always full of shit. I mean come on, do you REALLY need precision placement of molecules and nuclear material?
[17:53:03] <tom3p> LL&L fulla shit? you better clear out of CA! they play with dangerous crap there
[17:53:41] <Jymmm> tom3p: Silly putty and playdough, no big thing. Drive by there all the time.
[17:54:07] <tom3p> go inside ( see how far you can get ;)
[17:54:14] <Jymmm> tom3p: Give the guard $20 and he'll give you the full grand tour!
[17:54:49] <Jymmm> tom3p: for an extra $50, you can get a souvenir of your choice!
[17:55:59] <tom3p> haha, i had clearance, they put a bag over my head, drove the jeep to a building, made me repair a WEDM with a trap over the part cux i didnt have clearance enuf to see the part!
[17:56:08] <tom3p> tarp
[17:56:48] <tom3p> had a guard at the door with a gun, had to ask to got the can
[17:57:07] <Jymmm> tom3p: Bah, you musta went on a weekday. Onthe weekend no big thing. They even have corndogs, cottoncandy, and meat on a stick all for FREE!
[17:57:15] <tom3p> :)
[17:58:02] <Jymmm> tom3p: It's al overrated, media hype, just for show is all =)
[18:00:33] <Jymmm> tom3p: Stanford Linear Accelerator goes under the 280 FWY http://goo.gl/maps/vHIo
[18:01:18] <Jymmm> it is 2 miles long
[18:01:30] <tom3p> was my fave linux for a long time SLAC
[18:03:03] <Jymmm> tom3p: As far as LLL goes, I don't even like driving NEAR their facility =)
[18:03:27] <tom3p> we got Fermi lab, famous for white deer white racoons...
[18:03:37] <Jymmm> tom3p: But, they do have a cool auction you can bid on stuff
[18:03:47] <tom3p> no :(
[18:03:59] <Jymmm> You drive in, get your stuff, and leave.
[18:04:09] <Jymmm> all bidding is done online
[18:04:47] <Jymmm> but you'll need a big ass truck or flatbed most of the time.
[18:05:06] <tom3p> url for auction?
[18:05:54] <Jymmm> all view mailing list
[18:05:56] <Jymmm> via
[18:06:43] <tom3p> http://www.governmentauctiondatabase.com/locations/NJ/1629/
[18:07:09] <tom3p> gotit, but wont drive out to buy stuff
[18:07:14] <tom3p> thx tho
[18:07:44] <dave38> speaking of long runs the gravity wave interferometer 40 mi from here is something like 4 km/side
[18:07:49] <Jymmm> no no that's not it, this has the entire monthly inventory and bids
[18:10:52] <dave38> like being in a candy shop?
[18:12:32] <Jymmm> dave38: more like a scrap yard
[18:13:20] <dave38> I don't know about lll but places like boeing have interesting stuff at auctions
[18:13:24] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wood-Primitive-Clothesline-String-Cord-Rope-Yarn-Winder-FREE-SHIPPING-/160816122912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2571634c20
[18:14:07] <dave38> despite the horror stories gov doesn't throw away much that is useful.
[18:14:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: DUDE, WHAT THE FUCK?! That's way too technical, complicated, and expensive to use and maintain?!
[18:15:26] <Tom_itx> does it come with the chinese girl?
[18:15:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: wth is it with you and chinese girls?
[18:15:53] <Tom_itx> cheap labor
[18:15:59] <Jymmm> heh, 8 pallets of test equipment
[18:17:11] <Jymmm> I found a rotary table!!!
[18:17:23] <JT-Shop> where?
[18:17:40] <Jymmm> llnl auction... hang on, post ing pic
[18:18:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://i46.tinypic.com/wrjsja.jpg
[18:18:43] <Tom_itx> that won't fit on my sherline
[18:19:04] <JT-Shop> your sherline would fit on the handle I think
[18:19:50] <Jymmm> they got a welder too
[18:20:28] <Jymmm> oh man... they got a fire safe
[18:20:38] <Jymmm> shit I might bid on that!
[18:21:05] <Jymmm> lol, pallets of vcrs!
[18:22:18] <dave38> way too much fun!
[18:22:24] <dave38> gotta go
[18:23:33] <Jymmm> Southbend 4' lathe for $900, is that good/bad or no idea?
[18:23:58] <Tom_itx> mine is an atlas
[18:24:23] <Jymmm> Miller Syncrowave 300 welder for $1100 ?
[18:25:15] <Jymmm> Lapping machine, Spitfire 24, NP-1705-2V for $461 ???
[18:25:33] <Jymmm> $460 for a band saw
[18:27:00] <Jymmm> BP 12BR for $1447 ???
[18:30:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: You a US Citizen?
[18:31:08] <Tom_itx> yessir
[18:31:10] <Jymmm> nm, you said you had clearance
[18:31:27] <Tom_itx> for what?
[18:31:48] <Jymmm> can't get in llnl to pick up your shit unless you are
[18:32:00] <Jymmm> I want that damn safe!
[18:32:15] <Tom_itx> you're not a citizen?
[18:32:36] <Jymmm> No, I was born and raised in California ;)
[18:32:42] <Tom_itx> oh
[18:32:49] <Tom_itx> im sorry
[18:32:51] <Tom_itx> :)
[18:32:55] <Jymmm> fuck you! lol
[18:33:24] <Jymmm> Yep, a rare breed... NATIVE Californian
[18:35:03] <Jymmm> https://dus.llnl.gov/
[18:35:16] <tom3p> trunnion looks nice, but what are the cables for? encoders on a manual axis? light for verniers?
[18:35:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: https://dus.llnl.gov/
[18:36:59] <tom3p> bye
[18:37:10] <Jymmm> I guess they might have a forklift, but not sure how I'd get it off.
[18:37:45] <Tom_itx> cherry picker
[18:37:52] <Tom_itx> you can borrow JT-Shop's
[18:38:46] <Jymmm> more like a couple 2x4's and a comealong
[18:42:04] <Jymmm> Eh, I'll call em tomorrow and ask.
[18:43:34] <JT-Shop> two come alongs is what I use
[19:54:03] <Tom_itx> anybody around? i have a q about tool lengths
[19:54:43] <Tom_itx> the way my mill software used to be was that i would set the z fixture offset with the tip of the first tool then preceeding tools were an offset of that
[19:55:22] <Tom_itx> ie tool one would have a zero offset
[19:56:04] <Tom_itx> do i still enter the offset for tool one as an offset from absolute z zero?
[19:56:25] <Tom_itx> and subsequent tools
[19:56:38] <Tom_itx> i think i can figure it out better by just doing it
[20:01:07] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, your reference / touch-off tool would normally have zero length in the table. However, having the actual physical length would also work.
[20:02:08] <andypugh> The important thing is that you should only ever touch-off the coordinate system with tool 1, so that you don't change its offsets. And you must always be careful to touch-off the other tools into the tool table.
[20:02:20] <Tom_itx> i'm just acustomed to doing it a certain way
[20:02:53] <Tom_itx> so are the other tools an offset from the first?
[20:03:00] <andypugh> However, if the other tools are correctly touched-off, then you can touch off the coordinate system with them too. (but if they are not correctly touched-off, then you break everything)
[20:03:02] <Tom_itx> if the first has zero offset
[20:03:28] <andypugh> If the first has zero offset then yes, the others are deltas.
[20:03:33] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:04:06] <Tom_itx> it's been so long since i ran the big ones i actually forgot what we did on those but i think we used a dowel pin as the first tool
[20:04:28] <Tom_itx> and most of them had routines built in to set tools
[20:05:04] <andypugh> That's a possibility too, if you have a tool-length probe.
[20:05:13] <andypugh> Time for me to sleep.
[20:05:18] <Tom_itx> ok thanks
[20:28:50] <elmo40> anyone in SC?
[20:29:46] <Jymmm> Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, Santa Claritia, Southern California,
[20:29:57] <elmo40> south carolina ;)
[20:29:59] <Jymmm> Stir Crazy
[20:30:03] <elmo40> stone cold
[20:30:19] <elmo40> myrtle beach, ever been?
[20:32:34] <Tom_itx> where's that dad gum bearing link again. i lost it in my bookmarks
[20:34:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: https://bookmarks.google.com/
[20:35:09] <Jymmm> err
[20:35:32] <Tom_itx> i dunno what machine it's on though
[20:35:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: https://www.google.com/bookmarks/?hl=en
[20:36:20] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Just drag the bookmarklet to your browsers toolbar to add a link quickly
[20:37:24] <Tom_itx> vxb
[20:37:35] <Jymmm> .com in Ornage County California
[20:37:46] <Jymmm> http://support.google.com/bookmarks/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=174971
[20:39:59] <Jymmm> Used to be King Bearing... http://web.applied.com/
[20:46:17] <Connor> What do you call the covers that are in front of the tables in allot of CNC mill's? It's not a way cover.. They tend to be made of stainless and typically look to be deep enough for the vise to be fully supported?
[20:46:55] <Connor> http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q18/jid2/IMG_2214.jpg
[20:47:11] <Connor> that mill has one in front, and on the side..
[20:47:55] <Tom_itx> acordion covers
[20:48:17] <Tom_itx> oh, i dunno about those
[20:51:55] <Valen> never seen one of those before
[20:52:21] <norias> hi
[20:54:45] <pcw_home> transit FTW
[20:55:21] <Valen> 100% cloud cover here
[20:55:56] <pcw_home> I'm amazed at how much you can see with lousy binocs propped up on the deck railing projecting onto a piece of paper
[20:56:11] <Valen> do be careful doing that
[20:56:19] <pcw_home> Venus + about 7 sun spots
[20:56:27] <Valen> if the light winds up hitting the side of the tube it can cause problems
[20:56:39] <pcw_home> about 1.5" diameter sun
[20:56:57] <Valen> one of my friends was using a 10" telescope for some solar observing, was chatting to his neighbour about it
[20:57:05] <Valen> then smoke starts pouring out of the scope
[20:57:05] <pcw_home> yeah got to keep it aligned
[20:57:23] <Valen> the sun image hit the side of the tube, luckily it was fireproof cardboard
[20:57:25] <pcw_home> there goes the secondary mount...
[20:57:45] <Valen> thankfully no lol
[20:58:15] <Valen> the worst he did was "its a bit bright, i know i'll put my moon filter (eyepiece) in
[20:58:27] <Valen> it lasted about a second and a half before it exploded
[20:58:45] <Valen> (he was projecting of course)
[20:59:21] <Valen> if you put some cardboard around the binocs so your otherwise in good shadow it'll improve your contrast
[20:59:28] <pcw_home> no you want a full size filter
[20:59:32] <Valen> better still do it inside into a dark room
[20:59:54] <Valen> yeah he "well duh that was dumb" afterwards lol
[21:00:12] <pcw_home> Yeah im still amazed at how good it looks (especially if dead-on axis)
[21:00:30] <Valen> we were in the third year of our space science degree at the time lol he really should have known better
[21:00:47] <pcw_home> (glad you reminded me though, I brought the binocs in)
[21:01:05] <Valen> even a straight magnifying glass can do a decent job
[21:02:10] <pcw_home> I'd set my telescope up but 8" is a bit scary amount of sunlight
[21:02:25] <elmo40> ya, just a little, eh?
[21:02:34] <elmo40> http://www.ustream.tv/channel-popup/star-gazers-eclipse
[21:02:37] <elmo40> watch it online :)
[21:03:02] <Valen> you can normally project it onto a big screen with it
[21:03:17] <Valen> the cheat way of lining it up is to put some foil over the front of it
[21:03:24] <Valen> and punch like a 1" hole in it
[21:04:05] <pcw_home> Yeah but this is just a Dobsonian and easy to bump
[21:04:06] <Valen> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[21:04:53] <pcw_home> Yeah they had a little flare earlier
[21:05:09] <Valen> its not "that" bad
[21:05:29] <pcw_home> no I mean a solar flare
[21:05:42] <pcw_home> little bitty one on the bottom
[21:05:49] <Valen> i meant the sun isnt that bad
[21:06:11] <Valen> you normally have a few minutes of observing time
[21:06:32] <Valen> we did it with the .5 meter dob at the university
[21:06:40] <Valen> projected it onto a wall inside the building lol
[21:06:50] <Tom_itx> i suppose that's another one we aren't able to see here
[21:06:52] <Valen> (with the scope outside)
[21:06:53] <pcw_home> I alway sort of had this idea that if you didn't have a Ha filter you really could n ot see anything
[21:07:06] <Tom_itx> is it visible now?
[21:07:08] <Valen> Tom_itx: where are you?
[21:07:12] <Tom_itx> Ks usa
[21:07:12] <Valen> can you see the sun?
[21:07:21] <pcw_home> from here yes
[21:07:22] <Tom_itx> too late now i'm afraid
[21:07:35] <Valen> then you missed it
[21:07:39] <pcw_home> anyone that can see the sun can see it
[21:07:44] <Valen> started about 4 hours ago
[21:08:00] <Valen> there is a region that doesnt get to see them
[21:11:39] <pcw_home> Pretty neat we had a great eclipse for this area and now this
[21:12:38] <Tom_itx> i saw the eclipse just before the sun went behind the trees
[21:12:50] <Valen> pcw there was a lunar eclipse recently? or is it coming
[21:12:56] <Tom_itx> this is alot more rare isn't it?
[21:13:16] <Valen> yeah
[21:13:19] <pcw_home> Yes quite rare
[21:13:29] <Valen> theres 2 about 5 years apart then about 100 years for the next one
[21:13:51] <pcw_home> not sure about the lunar but there was about a 80% solar a couple weeks ago
[21:13:52] <Valen> hell i'm here because of the one 2 cycles ago
[21:13:59] <Valen> lunar is pretty common
[21:14:17] <Tom_itx> solar is less common
[21:14:49] <Valen> (captain cook, went to tahiti to observe the last one, came home the long way around and "discovered" australia on the way)
[21:36:56] <Valen> pcw_home: we also used the solar filter on the scope to do direct observation, IE hold the filter up and look through it ;->
[21:37:01] <Valen> the sun is suprisingly small
[21:38:41] <pcw_home> I guess only a full aperture filter is safe
[21:40:08] <Valen> oversafe for direct observation i spose
[21:41:09] <Valen> some reflective mylar would probably do if you wanted to do projected observation
[21:41:14] <Valen> i wouldn't put my eye to it
[21:41:36] <Tom_itx> i used welding goggles the other day
[21:42:37] <pcw_home> No I'm happy just to see it projected
[21:42:39] <pcw_home> (they say the .003% transparency welding goggles are OK for observing the sun)
[21:43:02] <Valen> shade 12 i think thats called
[21:43:15] <Valen> though i think they want 14 or something now
[21:43:51] <pcw_home> Well that what someone on the NASA transit show said anyway
[21:44:29] <Tom_itx> i forget the number on mine but they're pretty dark
[21:44:36] <Tom_itx> i've got spare shaded glass
[21:44:45] <Tom_itx> i can double them up and you can't hardly see a thing
[21:45:04] <Valen> i see a few spots of blue sky on the horison
[21:46:15] <Valen> "If your telescope has a finder, you should also put a filter on it or use a dust cover and secure it with tape. Unprotected viewing through the finder will lead to the same kind of optical damage as viewing through the telescope. In addition, an uncovered finder directed at the sun can lead to exceedingly unpleasant scalp burns while you're viewing."
[21:46:25] <Valen> it sounds like that is a lesson learnt the hard way
[21:48:09] <pcw_home> Ouch!
[22:37:46] <jdhNC> no problems pulling the bolts out?
[22:46:14] <Tom_itx> is there a feedrate override in automatic mode?
[23:08:15] <Jymmm> the slider?
[23:15:13] <Jymmm> archivist: #40 http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/index-e.html
[23:28:02] <Valen> http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/vise/vise-e.htm is nice
[23:28:30] <Valen> i think half of this guys appeal is the good camera work and a clean shop lol
[23:28:55] <Jymmm> A clean shop/desk is a sign of a sick mind!
[23:29:15] <Valen> hmm, i have both a dirty desk, and a dirty mind
[23:29:24] <Jymmm> ditto
[23:30:14] <Jymmm> QUICK what is the weirdest thing on your desk???
[23:42:16] <djdelorie> you?
[23:42:39] <djdelorie> ok, not very quick ;-)
[23:42:59] <Jymmm> djdelorie: I'm not on your desk sily!
[23:43:08] <Valen> a solar garden light?
[23:43:08] <djdelorie> desk, desktop, what's the difference? ;-)
[23:43:44] <Jymmm> I'm not a cheaper hooker, I'm easy, just not cheap!
[23:44:22] <djdelorie> there are so many weird things on my desk, it's hard to choose. I'd have to go with the spinning wheel spindle.
[23:45:04] <Valen> carpet tape?
[23:45:28] <Valen> ooh the smashed up remains of the LCD and touch screen of a mobile phone in a drinking glass
[23:46:02] <Jymmm> http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5718003/The-Miracle-Blaze-Fact-Sheet-HOW-IS-MIRACLE-BLAZE
[23:46:37] <Jymmm> it was a buck at dollar store, so I said what the hell
[23:48:51] <Jymmm> oh and two bolts epoxied together, but I don't thnk that even comes close to weird in this channel.
[23:50:24] <Jymmm> Valen: IN a drink glass? Is the glass half full or half empty? And is there any fluid in it?
[23:50:32] <Valen> there was
[23:50:47] <Valen> but i drank it before filling it with glass shards
[23:50:51] <Jymmm> solvents dont count
[23:56:08] <Jymmm> a compound miter saw works great on cutting aluminum extrusion, but I really need to get a good one one of these days.