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[00:11:29] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, my spindle? Nope.... I can control it from the controller board's attached control panel, but nothing I've done in LinuxCNC effects it - I'd think at least some settings would easily get it to turn on at full speed, but so far I got nothing.
[00:13:31] <jdhNC> is the controller a single db25 input? Any breakouts in there or all just wired the way they wanted?
[00:46:12] <ScribbleJ> jdhNC, I probably missed you by now... but the controller is a big box with at least three boards in it. One of them is the VFD for the spindle... it all connects to the PC through a single parallel port and I have the docs and some photos that came with it if it's a mystery you feel like trying to solve. :)
[00:46:56] <ScribbleJ> the mach3 setup shows that you setup pins 16+17 for the spindle 'step' and 'dir' and then in the spindle config you choose pwm mode.
[00:48:06] <archivist> do you have a real scope to see what is coming out of those pins
[00:48:12] <ScribbleJ> I have a real scope!
[00:48:31] <ScribbleJ> But tomorrow will be the soonest I have the energy to go apply it to the problem. :)
[00:48:34] <jdhNC> does mach do pwm for that, or just step freq?
[00:49:07] <ScribbleJ> hang on -- if ya'll are interested, here's the documentation I have:
http://scribblej.com/setup-help-u.pdf
[00:50:11] <ScribbleJ> Relevant data is page2, it shows pinout, but the pinouts for 16, 17 make little sense, and pg 17-18 shows mach3 config
[00:50:49] <archivist> have you setup pwmgen yet?
[00:51:49] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
[00:52:31] <archivist> paragraphs 2 and 3
[00:52:44] <ScribbleJ> I haven't seen that page at all... that looks helpful...
[00:53:10] <ScribbleJ> I've only used stepconf to do anything so far. Thanks for that link.
[00:54:39] <archivist> step conf should have produced something like that except for pins 15,17 so you can review it etc
[00:54:48] <archivist> 16,17
[00:54:53] <ScribbleJ> Yeah.... I was wondering how to dig deeper. This is helpful.
[01:09:09] <alex4nder-> hhey
[01:24:57] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: With LinuxCNC, you can dig all the way to china!
[01:26:16] <ScribbleJ> My Z axis is only 5"
[01:26:25] <ScribbleJ> :P
[01:26:33] <jymmm> that's what she said
[01:26:37] <ScribbleJ> Doh!
[01:29:13] <ScribbleJ> I've written my own firmware for 3D printing which I use exclusively so hacking on linuxcnc is probably right up my alley.
[01:29:21] <ScribbleJ> But... I'm stillnew to this community. :)
[01:29:41] <jymmm> Eh, you'll fit in just fine =)
[01:30:30] <jymmm> 3D printing hot glue type stuff?
[01:31:10] <ScribbleJ> I'm backwards learning like you. :)
[01:31:24] <ScribbleJ> Well, you /could/ think of it like a little hot glue gun on a 3axis machine.
[01:31:42] <ScribbleJ> I pretty much have exclusively printed withPLA for the last year though.
[01:32:38] <jymmm> Peoples Liberation Army or the powder shit?
[01:32:53] <ScribbleJ> Hahaha, PLA = corn-based plastic. Nicer than ABS
[01:33:28] <jymmm> brittle isn't it?
[01:33:48] <ScribbleJ> Well, I think it's pretty strong, but PLA is more brittle than ABS, yes.
[01:34:40] <ScribbleJ> I've also been working ona light-curable resin-based 3D printer, like with a DLP projector, but I need to work on it more to have good results.
[01:35:01] <jymmm> I'm not too fond of brittle polymers.
[01:35:29] <jymmm> Uh DLP? Due to it's intensity?
[01:35:52] <ScribbleJ> DLp because it's a nice way to project an entire layer at once rather than using a laser and having to move it in X/Y
[01:36:29] <ScribbleJ> also because a slightly modified standard DLP puts out enough UV to cure UV resin, but I think UV resin is a botch and visible-light frequencies are the way to go.
[01:37:00] <jymmm> Heh, you havne't played with UV stuff then, it's DA BOMB!
[01:37:09] <ScribbleJ> I have played with UV stuff...
[01:37:43] <ScribbleJ> I'm sure it's fun overall but when you're trying to make a good 3D printer out of commodity parts, using 405nm instead of 380 makes things much easier.
[01:38:35] <jymmm> 405nm, that'a tad low
[01:38:58] <jymmm> is that blueray modeule?
[01:39:51] <ScribbleJ> yeah, 405 woudl be blueray, but you can hit it well with an unmodded DLP
[01:40:11] <ScribbleJ> You can hit 380 with a DLp if you remove all the filters.
[01:40:30] <ScribbleJ> Well if it has a xenon bulb... not so much with the new LED ones.
[01:40:48] <jymmm> I'll stick with my 30W CO2 tyvm =)
[01:40:58] <ScribbleJ> That's a whole different type of machine.
[01:41:14] <jymmm> Yes, yes it is =)
[01:41:18] <ScribbleJ> I've got a 50W CO2... it's nice, but I hope it doesn't get neglected now that I have a CNC'd router
[01:41:48] <jymmm> heh
[01:42:04] <jymmm> what 50W do you have?
[01:42:06] <ScribbleJ> What laser do you have?
[01:42:06] <ScribbleJ> Hahah
[01:42:22] <jymmm> i asked first biotch!
[01:42:44] <ScribbleJ> Mine's a cheapass chinese import. I think it really works well, set me back $3k but beats the $10k epilog at our local hackerspace. Hang on, I'll give you alink.
[01:43:09] <ScribbleJ> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CO2-LASER-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-ENGRAVER-CUTTER-AUXILIARY-ROTARY-DEVICE-50W-NEW-w-/260919607158?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc0053f76
[01:43:13] <jymmm> ULS M-300
[01:43:20] <ScribbleJ> That one, ignore the shipping, it's about $2800 regardless.
[01:43:55] <ScribbleJ> 24x12: nice!
[01:44:12] <ScribbleJ> Your shas auto focus?
[01:44:27] <jymmm> yes
[01:44:32] <ScribbleJ> that's nice!
[01:44:51] <ScribbleJ> Yours looks really sweet.
[01:45:50] <jymmm> I enjoy it. Didn't come with air assist, so I'm working on adding that
[01:46:37] <ScribbleJ> Mine has the air assist, it's a nice thing to have I guess but I still managed to set the workpeice on fire once pretty good.
[01:47:16] <jymmm> air isn't for fire supression, it's to displace material
[01:47:59] <ScribbleJ> Oh? Hrm.
[01:48:12] <jymmm> I also have a 40lb nitrogen tank that I'm working on for fire supression in the cabinet
[01:48:14] <ScribbleJ> I've never worked without it so I don't really appreciate I suppose.
[01:48:19] <ScribbleJ> Oh, now that's fancy.
[01:48:38] <ScribbleJ> How would you make that work? Like a trigger that detects a fire and just opens the valve on the thing?
[01:49:13] <jymmm> could use a plain old fire sprikler, or a heat sensor
[01:51:48] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Have you not seen the results of a laser fire?
http://i37.tinypic.com/sqh6r7.jpg
[01:51:59] <ScribbleJ> YIKES
[01:52:05] <jymmm> http://i36.tinypic.com/119nhbp.jpg
[01:52:11] <ScribbleJ> I have a friend who said he had to replace most of his laser after a fire.
[01:52:22] <jymmm> http://i36.tinypic.com/27y5n2d.jpg
[01:52:34] <ScribbleJ> I always watch mine while it's going so when it started flaming I cuahgt it fast enought o avoid damage.
[01:52:40] <jymmm> http://i34.tinypic.com/eldwly.jpg
[01:52:52] <ScribbleJ> DANG
[01:52:57] <ScribbleJ> That's horrible
[01:53:24] <jymmm> She just went to the door to sign for a UPS package after she had ran 17 jobs exactly the same before. Was gone no more than 2 minutes.
[01:53:26] <ScribbleJ> Amazing and horrible
[01:53:31] <ScribbleJ> What
[01:53:34] <ScribbleJ> No fucking way 2 minutes.
[01:53:40] <jymmm> MAybe 4
[01:53:56] <ScribbleJ> Skeptical!
[01:54:15] <ScribbleJ> there's two fire extinguishers INT HE PHOTO
[01:54:19] <jymmm> And becasue she ran this out of her home, it was not covered under her home insurance, $34,000 to replace it.
[01:54:22] <ScribbleJ> The only way this happens is gross negligence
[01:54:42] <jymmm> She was cutting/engraving plastics.
[01:54:43] <ScribbleJ> What?
[01:54:55] <ScribbleJ> I sure hope if my laser burns down my home insurance will cover it.
[01:55:01] <ScribbleJ> I guess I'd better call and ask them.
[01:55:27] <Connor> If you run it out of your home and you have a business, better make sure you have business insurance..
[01:55:35] <jymmm> Never walk away from a laser in operation. Hit PAUSE or whatever.
[01:56:07] <Connor> Lucky her house didn't burn down by the looks of that thing.
[01:56:15] <jymmm> Now you know why I'm looking at nitrigen supression.
[01:56:22] <jymmm> Connor: No shit.
[01:56:25] <ScribbleJ> yeah, but sheesh.
[01:56:38] <ScribbleJ> I'm not buying the 2-4 minute story.
[01:56:50] <ScribbleJ> half an hour seems like 4 minutes when you're busy.
[01:56:51] <Connor> plastic can burn, QUICK
[01:56:56] <jymmm> See all that black soot, that's a petrolium fire.
[01:57:19] <ScribbleJ> All right, well.
[01:57:33] <ScribbleJ> At least I'm even more detemined not leave my laser unattended.
[01:57:38] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: NEVER underestimate the speed of a fire. You have to realize there is an exhaust blower to fee that fire running too
[01:57:47] <ScribbleJ> True
[01:58:06] <jymmm> Which is usually a dust collector
[01:58:20] <jymmm> glorified leaf blower
[01:58:44] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/6903776150/in/photostream
[01:58:50] <ScribbleJ> Oh... hang on, you'll like this
[01:59:02] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7080853883/in/photostream
[01:59:04] <ScribbleJ> Heheheh
[01:59:40] <ScribbleJ> Glorified leaf blower! :P
[01:59:50] <jymmm> Uh... you should be running at least 400CFM @ 4" SP I'd suspect.
[02:00:04] <ScribbleJ> I dunno what CFM of SP are/
[02:00:17] <jymmm> CFM == cubic feet per minute
[02:00:31] <jymmm> SP = Static Pressure
[02:01:07] <jymmm> That fun might be 200CFM @ 0.5" SP
[02:01:08] <ScribbleJ> I know all those words, but 400CFM @4SP still means nothing to me. :(
[02:01:12] <jymmm> That fan might be 200CFM @ 0.5" SP
[02:01:51] <ScribbleJ> What I can tell you is this: there's about 25' of tube on that fan, before the laser and it's fan, and if the laser is off and I turn on that fan, the laser's fan starts spinning from the force.
[02:02:20] <ScribbleJ> So I figure it's cool.
[02:02:21] <ScribbleJ> heh
[02:02:33] <ScribbleJ> Hey....
[02:02:42] <jymmm> the purpose of the exhaust is to save the optics in the laser.
[02:03:06] <ScribbleJ> that reminds me, I bet you or one of the linuxcnc guys would know... my laser and my router are both water-cooled and the router's pump is completely useless so I'm using the laser's pump on both
[02:03:25] <jymmm> not at the sam etime I hope
[02:03:26] <ScribbleJ> where do I find a second pump that's suitable for this sort of application? Seems a lot heftier than a fishtank pump.
[02:03:31] <ScribbleJ> No, one at a time. :)
[02:04:01] <jymmm> all those china stuff just use fish pumps that I've ever seen
[02:04:28] <ScribbleJ> Hrm, both of these are submerged pumps, much bigger than fishtank pumps I have seen.
[02:04:31] <jymmm> if it's just cooling, you just need volume, not pressure
[02:04:50] <jymmm> sump pump
[02:05:15] <ScribbleJ> Where are you located, jymmm ? Not related to the current conversation.
[02:05:30] <jymmm> Calif
[02:05:40] <ScribbleJ> I guess I will do some searching, just thought someone might know some particular product. :)
[02:05:51] <ScribbleJ> Ah, I'm near Chicago.
[02:06:36] <jymmm> any hardware store has sump pumps.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=sump+pump
[02:07:02] <jymmm> grainger, McMaster, home depot, lowes, etc
[02:07:38] <ScribbleJ> Of course. That's a good link, and a good idea, I think. But how do I tell what size hose I can connect to that sump's water output?
[02:08:09] <ScribbleJ> And how would I tell wether 2800gph is similar to the pump I have, which is quite appropriate?
[02:08:20] <ScribbleJ> I guess I could do an experiment and time it... bother...
[02:08:50] <ScribbleJ> For the record, that looks like a LOT more than my pump, physically.
[02:09:11] <jymmm> 2800 GPH == 47GPM ~= 1GPS
[02:09:28] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7032972937/in/set-72157629705782797 You can kind of see the pump I'm suing here, in a 5gal bucket.
[02:09:43] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/6949120280/in/set-72157629705782797
[02:10:02] <ScribbleJ> hrm, it's got a label on it.
[02:10:09] <jymmm> just a fish pump
[02:10:11] <ScribbleJ> Maybe I can just check that out in detail.
[02:12:22] <jymmm> Just time how long it take the pump to fill a 5 gallon bucket and divide by 5
[02:12:54] <jymmm> But, measure out 5 galons first so you know where the 5gal mark is on the bucket
[02:16:04] <ScribbleJ> Yeah, except I'd do 1gal.
[02:16:22] <ScribbleJ> Or ask my wife... she's the scientist and patient with experiment.
[02:16:25] <jymmm> No, do 5 gal so you get a avg rate
[02:17:50] <ScribbleJ> I get what you're saying, but that's a project for the wife, I'm the type to do 1gal and say close enough for these purposes. I doubt the 1gal timing could be too far off from some common types of pumps.
[02:18:18] <jymmm> It's your laser/spindle, not mine =)
[02:20:55] <jymmm> The better you can cool the laser, the better the results.
[02:21:33] <jymmm> or you can get a chiller
[02:21:36] <ScribbleJ> That's true - but I have a machinist friend who warned me about cooling the spindle too much.
[02:21:59] <ScribbleJ> I told him I'd been using a pump, in a 5gal bucket with water and a milk jug of ice
[02:22:19] <ScribbleJ> he said a spindle can get too cool and cause condensation which'll fuck my shit up.
[02:22:21] <ScribbleJ> do you concur?
[02:22:53] <jymmm> sounds right for the spindle
[02:24:14] <ScribbleJ> that's an interesting problem. :)
[02:25:56] <jymmm> speed/flow control
[02:38:43] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:38:58] <jymmm> hola
[02:40:44] <DJ9DJ> hi jymmm
[04:57:28] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:55:50] <jthornton> if I have a helix that is .5 in diameter how do you calculate the Z from an angle? Say I want to helix down at 5 degrees for my .5" diameter
[07:56:19] <jthornton> most cam programs allow you to set the angle of the helix iirc
[07:56:20] <joe9> would anyone recommend a cheap "edge finder"?
[07:58:29] <jthornton> most of them work but I prefer my Starrett 827a and they go for about $22
[07:58:38] <joe9> jthornton: thanks.
[07:59:29] <jthornton> for finding the X edge of material I prefer to use a dowel and only use the edge finder to find the Y0 on the vise
[08:00:51] <alex_joni> jthornton: imagine you're doing a straight line (.5" * 3.14 long) along the X axis
[08:00:56] <archivist> that would be the same as lead angle for a thread/helical gear
[08:00:59] <joe9> i have the instrument with a lot of thin blades, to measure the distance.
[08:01:02] <jthornton> ah ok
[08:01:13] <alex_joni> then it's easy to calculate Z at 5 degrees
[08:01:34] <jthornton> that makes sense alex_joni
[08:01:36] <jthornton> thanks
[08:01:39] <alex_joni> np
[08:01:48] <joe9> jthornton: I am thinking that an edge finder will be more accurate than using a dowel or gap measurement tool.
[08:04:13] <jthornton> your skill at using the edge finder is the determining factor on if the edge finder is as accurate as using a dowel in the spindle for X
[08:04:19] <joe9> jthornton: i have the feeler gauge.
[08:05:23] <jthornton> ?
[08:05:51] <joe9> jthornton: thanks.
[08:06:23] <jthornton> do you know the method I'm referring to for X?
[08:07:00] <joe9> jthornton: yes, I think so. just roll the pin until it does not pass, correct?
[08:07:10] <jthornton> not for X
[08:07:50] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/mill02.html
[08:08:02] <joe9> jthornton: thanks.
[08:08:13] <jthornton> that method works very well for Z
[08:30:06] <jthornton> joe9, new one
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/taps.html
[09:11:55] <jymmm> jthornton: You should add some flash banner ads =)
[09:12:15] <jymmm> jthornton: Very nice btw
[09:13:14] <jymmm> jthornton: and what about lard? bacon grease? frozen butter?
[09:34:30] <jthornton> jymmm, thanks
[09:34:48] <jymmm> =)
[09:49:04] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/EA1BC.jpg
[09:49:12] <jymmm> I dont think I've ever seen in-line printing done before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGrJb4zBQBU&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[09:57:53] <jymmm> Modern Technology at it's finest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EwaIQ-U6QQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[10:05:21] <r00t4rd3d> why you searching youtube for tampon videos?
[10:05:45] <r00t4rd3d> you got some kind of weird fetish?
[10:06:51] <r00t4rd3d> think ill have a bloody mary
[10:17:00] <jymmm> Eeeeeesh, poor bastards...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLuPtMvvwA0&feature=related
[10:39:35] <ScribbleJ> uuugh
[10:40:54] <ScribbleJ> That foxconn video is ridiculousl.
[10:41:26] <ScribbleJ> This guy has spent 9/10ths of the first 2 minutes telling me how sought-after and beloved Apple products are.
[10:41:30] <ScribbleJ> SPIN MUCH, MOTHERFUCKER?
[10:41:49] <ScribbleJ> He's not done yet!
[10:42:16] <ScribbleJ> "Not just dependable appliances... works of art.... lovingly sold in museum-like stores..."
[10:42:24] <ScribbleJ> I dont' think I can make it throught his entire video
[10:42:39] <ScribbleJ> This reporter is a COMPLETE TOOL
[10:43:14] <ScribbleJ> "The sleek machines that inspire, dazzle, and change lives are mostly made by hand."
[10:43:42] <ScribbleJ> MORE EXPOSITION ON HOW WONDERFULA PPLE IS PLEASE, I'M NOT GETTING ENOUGH WHEN IT'S ONLY HALF OF A SENTENCE...EVERY WORD MUST PRAISE APPLE
[10:46:52] <jymmm> Realize that like he said in the beginning, Jobs was on the baord of directors
[10:47:12] <ScribbleJ> Yea, but ... c'mon man
[10:47:18] <ScribbleJ> This is not journalilsm, it's pandering.
[10:47:20] <jymmm> It's a PR thing
[10:47:36] <ScribbleJ> That's my point, yea.
[10:47:39] <ScribbleJ> This isn't news... it's PR.
[10:47:55] <jymmm> Apple has ben using Foxconn for decades, what they say goes.
[10:47:59] <jymmm> been
[10:48:28] <jymmm> And gawd help ya if you talk trash about apple and be assciated with apple
[10:48:39] <jymmm> bunch of drones
[10:49:25] <jymmm> I didnt know about the suicides, and would have thought that the mfg was doen by machine
[10:50:45] <jymmm> Heh, it's like those magazines that you can pay $500, write your own story and they'll publish it like they had reported it.
[10:52:41] <ScribbleJ> HAhaha
[10:52:53] <ScribbleJ> The auditor's primary metric is whether the people on the line will look at him?!
[10:52:57] <ScribbleJ> You must be fucking kidding me.
[10:53:11] <jymmm> no
[10:53:36] <jymmm> You literally write the story (in third person) and they publish it.
[10:54:16] <ScribbleJ> No, I'm talking about the auditor in this story. What a joke.
[10:54:39] <jymmm> http://www.superlawyers.com/about/attorney_faq.html
[10:55:00] <jymmm> http://www.superdoctors.com/about/physician_faq.html
[10:55:09] <ScribbleJ> If you already have a photo, you can change it any time. If your profile page does not contain your photograph, then you must first upgrade to an Expanded Online Profile. The cost is just $450 or $600 for 12 months and you can start any time
[10:55:12] <ScribbleJ> Hahahaha
[10:55:23] <ScribbleJ> Someone's bringing back the old who's-who scam!
[10:55:33] <ScribbleJ> All you have to do is pay us $600 and we'll list you as a SUPER Doctor.
[10:57:07] <ScribbleJ> That's some seriousbullshit there, jymmm
[10:57:26] <jymmm> the sad thing is we all buy it too.
[10:58:05] <jymmm> so, if you ever go into a doctor/dentist/attornay office and see a "Super Blah" artcile posted on the wall, run like bat out of hell
[10:58:07] <ScribbleJ> If I ever see a doctor with a SUPER DOCTOR plaque, I will walk out of that mofos office. Or run. Run probably.
[10:58:14] <ScribbleJ> ^5 jymmm
[11:01:54] <jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3YFGixp9Jw&NR=1&feature=endscreen
[11:02:27] <ScribbleJ> Is this something else that'll make me mad?
[11:02:29] <ScribbleJ> Oh.
[11:02:31] <ScribbleJ> Heheh
[11:02:41] <jymmm> yes
[11:02:49] <jymmm> i hoope
[11:05:11] <ScribbleJ> Have you guys tried pycam? Seems pretty solid.
[11:07:06] <ScribbleJ> I dunno about this Chinese foxconn stuff.
[11:07:18] <ScribbleJ> On the one hand I'd like to feel outraged at their working conditions.
[11:08:10] <ScribbleJ> On the other hand, it's hard to tell what's lies and exaggeration on both sides...
[11:08:21] <ScribbleJ> On the other other hand, I buy a lot of cheap stuff from China myself. :/
[11:08:22] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[11:08:46] <ScribbleJ> Just because I don't use Apple stuff doesn't mean I'm not also responsible for shitty working conditions, I suppose.
[11:09:24] <jymmm> As do I, but I would expect a company like Apple to have integrity and higher standards
[11:14:10] <jymmm> The thing is, almost all electronics are made overseas. I don't think there is one tv/lcd mfr left in the US at all.
[11:17:08] <ScribbleJ> Stupid short-sighted US manufacturers.
[11:17:33] <jymmm> No, just can't compete with overseas is all
[11:17:33] <ScribbleJ> I guess it's the fault of the consumers too, chasing the lowest price no matter how you get there.
[11:17:56] <jymmm> EPA regulations have a ot to do with it too
[11:18:21] <jymmm> we export our polution =)
[11:19:18] <jymmm> can you imagine the toxicity created to make an LCD panel?
[11:20:59] <jymmm> But, when you have a country with population in the billions, what ya gonna do?
[11:21:20] <jymmm> one city with a 13 MILLION population?!
[11:22:02] <Tom_itx> thin em out with nuclear fallout?
[11:22:51] <jymmm> They already have one baby per family "birth control" in place, and if you have a 2nd child, on the wya you get heavily fined, fired from your job, etc
[11:23:21] <Tom_itx> that's not so good either because if it's female it's doomed
[11:23:38] <Tom_itx> and there are a lack of them to go around
[11:24:00] <jymmm> Oh it's bad, the goverment pays/bribes ppl to nark off anyone that is pregnent
[11:25:27] <jymmm> There are family planning "Couselers" that have gone as far as beat the crap out of the parents to the point of miscarriage and in the hospital for days
[11:25:47] <jymmm> The dad gets fired, and blackballed.
[11:28:43] <jymmm> Eeeeeah Shanghai has a population density of 6845 per sq km
[11:29:29] <jymmm> If I did the math right, that's 17,000 per square mile!
[11:29:32] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the Earth
[11:29:52] <jymmm> The US average density is 1500 per sq mile
[11:30:16] <IchGuckLive> chonqing has the most in the world
[11:30:19] <jymmm> In the SF Bay area it's 9000 per sq mile
[11:31:53] <jymmm> IchGuckLive: Chongqing is 910/sq mi
[11:32:22] <jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing
[11:32:37] <IchGuckLive> i misunderstud the numbers
[11:32:49] <jymmm> IchGuckLive: it's all good =)
[11:33:56] <jymmm> IchGuckLive: It does have a large population, but I suspect they base the density on the sq mileage and not that includes the countryside not just city areas
[11:35:04] <IchGuckLive> 7,7Mio on 1470sq/Km
[11:35:18] <jymmm> So they have 31K sq miles, but if the city is only 3K sq mile, it's huge!
[11:35:22] <IchGuckLive> 1mil is 1.6 km ?
[11:36:03] <IchGuckLive> the "town" area spreds to 83k sq/km
[11:36:21] <jymmm> Shit, tha'ts a HUGE difference
[11:36:58] <IchGuckLive> thats calculated on town distance
[11:37:20] <IchGuckLive> so for the USA NY and PIL even Wash DC is one town
[11:37:38] <IchGuckLive> as there is no space betweeb
[11:38:16] <jymmm> heh
[11:39:24] <IchGuckLive> if you travel on 95 South there is town on town
[11:40:35] <IchGuckLive> ok the numbers are only as you calculate there is no international rule for this
[11:41:38] <jymmm> just take the ratio of the city area vs total area, then use that ratio on the density to get a city denisty that's more realistic
[11:41:55] <Tom_itx> useable area
[11:42:02] <Tom_itx> wanna live off a cliff?
[11:43:29] <IchGuckLive> Macao is the town with the highest i guess
[11:43:31] <jymmm> There actually some that do in a sorta cave. It looked really cool, and expensive as hell too
[11:43:46] <Tom_itx> saw that
[11:44:19] <jymmm> Kinda makes sense, constant temperature all year long
[11:44:32] <jymmm> And those Solar light tubes are frickin awesome
[11:44:50] <jymmm> they even have a light in them for night time
[11:45:14] <IchGuckLive> and the district within Freguesia de Santo Antonio is the highest 185.000people per square mile
[11:45:26] <jymmm> a 12" solar tube had more light than a 4ft sq skylight
[11:45:38] <jymmm> I was impressed.
[11:46:10] <IchGuckLive> jymmm: on frday germany where on record with 20 GWH of solar power generated
[11:46:35] <jymmm> cool
[11:47:02] <IchGuckLive> thats 20 Nuc powerstations
[11:47:19] <jymmm> Yeah? what about at 3am? lol
[11:47:29] <IchGuckLive> or 25 Niagra fals
[11:48:58] <IchGuckLive> jymmm: only calculations on white paper
[11:49:05] <jymmm> ah
[11:49:24] <IchGuckLive> power comes always out of your next Plug
[11:49:30] <IchGuckLive> B)
[11:49:52] <jymmm> Except in greenland =)
[11:49:59] <IchGuckLive> if your naigbour has a solarpanell aray you are on green power 2
[11:50:04] <jymmm> then it comes out of the ground =)
[11:50:20] <IchGuckLive> Iceland
[11:51:23] <IchGuckLive> i worked there for 6month at a milling company for hydraulik parts no fosil in use 15feet deep hole with 300DegC hot water
[11:51:50] <IchGuckLive> And homemade snow on the frontyard
[11:52:04] <IchGuckLive> steam alover
[11:55:05] <IchGuckLive> is one block in the USA 0.5sm
[11:56:27] <IchGuckLive> sorry need to go BY
[12:20:31] <puff> I'm looking at the fireball v90, so far reviews have been very positive, which makes me wonder what I'm missing :-).
[12:26:23] <jymmm> puff: You literally said the EXACT same thing yesterday, why are you repeating yourself? 2012-05-27 19:56:52 puff: I'm looking at the fireball v90, so far reviews have been very positive, which makes me wonder what I'm missing :-)
[12:42:34] <puff> jymmm: Because I didn't see any answers for quite a while. If somebody did answer, it's scrolled out of my buffer.
[12:43:14] <jymmm> puff: Um, you never actually asked a question.
[12:44:01] <puff> jymmm: It's an implied question: what am I missing.
[12:44:16] <puff> jymmm: Do you know anything about the v90?
[12:44:35] <jymmm> nope
[12:44:42] <puff> Okay then.
[13:01:33] <mrsun> http://www.machinetoolhelp.com/Preventativemaintenance/Ballbaranalysis.html one of those would be neat
[13:02:32] <mrsun> could a crude one be made from an ordenary sliding potentiometer? :)
[13:11:42] <andypugh> LVDTs aren't horribly expensive
[13:12:59] <andypugh> <checks eBay>
[13:13:13] <andypugh> My! Aren't LVDTs horribly expensive!
[13:20:28] <pcw_home> instead of a LVDT the analog Avago version of your encoder should get you to a few uinch resolution
[13:21:03] <pcw_home> (with a Arduino or some such interpolator)
[13:22:04] <pcw_home> (Ive see a 4 million count/rev encoder made with that couple buck device)
[13:23:03] * fragalot loves his reprap
[13:28:12] <alex4nder-> hey
[13:48:43] <FinboySlick> Woah, JohnGrimsmo got tormach :P
[13:49:02] <FinboySlick> Actualyl, Tormach sponsorship.
[13:51:55] <jdhNC> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CO2-LASER-ENGRAVING-MACHINE-ENGRAVER-CUTTER
[13:52:53] <andypugh> FinboySlick: ?
[13:53:27] <FinboySlick> andypugh: The knifemaking tuesdays guy. Fellow Canadian.
[13:53:51] <andypugh> Kinife guys scare me. Slightly more than gun nuts.
[13:54:00] <FinboySlick> Pretty cool videos for beginers like me. Sort of learning along with him.
[13:55:37] <andypugh> Oooh! Pretty knives!
[13:55:44] <alex4nder-> I could see picking up a Tormach at some point.
[13:55:50] <alex4nder-> pretty nice looking machine.
[13:56:06] <andypugh> (I like knoves myself, and I quite like guns, I just don't really like the guys who like them..)
[13:56:18] <FinboySlick> I was strongly considering it, but it really was just too big for me.
[13:56:40] <andypugh> Don't they do a little one?
[13:56:41] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Isn't that sort of hypocritical?
[13:56:50] <andypugh> And your point is?
[13:57:01] <FinboySlick> andypugh: No point, just amused.
[13:57:19] <alex4nder-> andypugh: you just have to find gun people that are the same as you
[13:57:26] <alex4nder-> which is difficult
[13:57:43] <andypugh> Anyway, not really. I quite like wine and beer, but look strangely at anyone who likes either to the exclusion of other stuff.
[13:57:52] <FinboySlick> alex4nder-: Gun people who hate gun people hate eachother... And they have guns.
[13:58:18] <alex4nder-> well gun people tend to be douches
[13:58:30] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: no, it isnt hypocritical. nobody is FORCED to love his own kind ;-)
[13:58:30] <FinboySlick> Nah, I know some pretty cool ones.
[13:58:37] <alex4nder-> my particular favorites being gun people who are anti personal liberties
[13:58:43] <alex4nder-> like drug use, and gay marriage.
[13:58:51] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Good point.
[13:59:03] <andypugh> I was in the shooting club at college, but the other guys were a bit strange. It didn't help when I turned up on target rifle days which prevented them shooting their handguns.
[13:59:18] <alex4nder-> but they get angry when the Federal government won't let them own destructive devices
[13:59:59] <alex4nder-> I always duck the other gun people whenever I'm at the range.
[14:00:04] <mrsun> turning wth is it called ? "rust free" material in the lathe, something to think off when doing it? :)
[14:00:18] <andypugh> Ah, but homsexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. Like lobster thermidor and polycotton.
[14:00:28] <Loetmichel> mrsun: stainless
[14:00:32] <mrsun> stainless, yes =)
[14:00:36] <mrsun> hate those blackouts =)
[14:01:08] <alex4nder-> andypugh: exactly.. leviticus told me so
[14:01:50] <jdhNC> did it also tell you how much you could sell your daughters for?
[14:02:10] <Loetmichel> alex4nder- / andypugh: hrhr, i would LOVE to talk to you ppl in rl... down some beers and look at all the "normal" ppl out there ;-)
[14:02:10] <cradek> andypugh: ... but not slavery
[14:02:42] <alex4nder-> haha
[14:02:59] <andypugh> Well, you can own slaves from Canada and Mexico, but living on an island, I am not sure I can.
[14:03:11] <jdhNC> hmm, I could buy a canadian!
[14:03:57] <jdhNC> or wait a year or two and get two greeks
[14:03:57] <andypugh> If anyone is puzzled:
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-2945.html
[14:04:21] <alex4nder-> jdhNC: I'm pretty sure you'll have to buy the Greeks off of the Germans.
[14:04:26] <alex4nder-> but odds are they'll sell cheap.
[14:04:42] <Loetmichel> jdhNC: right, will be cheap then, sopnsored with my money ;-)
[14:04:46] <Loetmichel> sponsored
[14:04:53] <alex4nder-> Loetmichel: did you get a vacation home out of the deal?
[14:04:59] <Loetmichel> ?
[14:05:07] <alex4nder-> when Germany bought Greece
[14:05:17] <alex4nder-> I'd figure you'd get part of a beach at minimum.
[14:05:42] <andypugh> Hmm, I wonder where a good place would be for a Euro LinuxCNC-fest?
[14:06:00] <jdhNC> ebay refunded my money from my lameass deadbeat motor speed controller seller
[14:06:05] <Loetmichel> that would be nice, but no, just pay taxes in excess and get nothing in return, as usaual
[14:06:32] <alex4nder-> lame.
[14:07:27] * Loetmichel has a salary of 2800 eur each month... and gets payed out 1428 eur... rest is taxes/insurances
[14:08:10] <jdhNC> I need to remove a pocket 0.200" of cast iron from my mill's saddle, any suggestions?
[14:12:05] <andypugh> Mill it?
[14:12:32] <cradek> must be a trick question.
[14:12:45] <andypugh> I think it is a catch-22
[14:12:55] <jdhNC> it wouldn't be if I really knew anything about milling.
[14:12:57] * FinboySlick would demand Smugglers Island.
[14:13:10] <FinboySlick> It's got to be the most awesome little bit of Greece that I know.
[14:13:12] <jdhNC> will HSS work? Can I do the whole .2 in one cut?
[14:13:35] <andypugh> Ah, the problem isn't that you can't mill the saddle because your mill has no saddle fitted?
[14:13:52] <jdhNC> that's one of the problems. I have an X2 I could attempt to use.
[14:14:08] <jdhNC> can you cut cast iron ok with HSS?
[14:14:12] <andypugh> Yes
[14:14:33] <andypugh> You don't even need HSS, carbon steel is fine. What do you think the Victorians used?
[14:14:47] <jdhNC> I don't know any Victorians
[14:14:57] <alex4nder-> do you know any Victoria's Secret modles?
[14:15:00] <alex4nder-> they might know.
[14:15:23] <mrsun> victoria secret models are so bony they could be used as cutters
[14:15:30] <mrsun> and quite effective ones also :P
[14:16:37] <alex4nder-> chuck them up by their feet?
[14:17:04] <andypugh> jdhNC: You could probably use a cold chisel.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini_lathe/63621-mini_lathe_cross_slide_ballscrew-2.html
[14:17:36] <andypugh> (post 18, 20)
[14:17:59] <JT-Shop> andypugh: tuning the 10hp rotary phase converter is going well
[14:18:04] <jdhNC> that might actually be fun
[14:18:30] <syyl> most parts of a chinese mill are "machined" with a chisel anyway, andypugh :D
[14:18:33] <jdhNC> I could plunge most out on the drill press and then chisel.
[14:32:18] <pcw_home> andypugh how do you reverse a analog output? (to correct a reverse feedback situation)
[14:33:05] <pcw_home> (the hm2 manual needs a section on sserial data types)
[14:34:22] <pcw_home> theres minlimit, maxlimit and maxoutput but I'm not sure how these work together
[14:40:24] <andypugh> I am not sure you can.
[14:41:08] <andypugh> What's the application? I would be expecting to use negative PID gains or encoder scale.
[14:42:25] <pcw_home> feedback is reverse (and I think encoder direction is correct)
[14:43:52] <pcw_home> Ok maxvdh solved his problem by reversing the output leads
[14:44:27] <pcw_home> note that the PID comp has a bug so negative tuning parameter are not safe
[14:45:27] <SWPadnos> pcw_home, there should be a scale parameter for analog outputs, just negate that
[14:45:37] <SWPadnos> dac_scale or some such
[14:46:42] <pcw_home> this is for sserial outpust and i dont think they have that option (would changing the sign of maxoutput do andy?)
[14:47:23] <pcw_home> let me look at the code...
[14:47:34] <SWPadnos> if it's something that acts like analog, there ought to be some sort of scale factor
[14:52:02] <andypugh> well, you could add a "scale" function in HAL, in-extremis
[14:53:23] <pcw_home> it looks like reversing the sign of fullscale should do it
[14:54:45] <andypugh> Good. Perhaps that needs to go int he docs.
[14:55:53] <pcw_home> looks like thats "scalemax"
[15:30:22] <ScribbleJ> Well, I spent some time this morning tracing the wires around my vfd and drivers and it seems like there is no connection to control the vfd from the parport.
[15:30:36] <ScribbleJ> so I'm guessing that's why I can't control the spindle form linuxcnc.! haa
[15:35:58] <andypugh> That won't help
[15:37:13] <andypugh> I didn't see any mention of anything in the docs. But the docs were eccentric at best
[15:42:36] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[15:57:02] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: Do you have any unused Parport pins to use for spindle control?
[16:02:08] <ScribbleJ> I'd imagine there's a way it's meant to be wired up and just someone forgot to make some connections - but figuring out which will be tricky.
[16:02:44] <jdhNC> the docs say 16 & 17,did you setup pwmgen and check the pins?
[16:07:35] <ScribbleJ> Well, no, not yet... I might, but seriously, there's no way for a signal to get from the parallel port -> the driver board -> the vfd. That second -> is completely absent, so I'm skeptical that there's any way for it to work as is.
[16:08:46] <andypugh> Your scepticism seems well founded.
[16:09:13] <andypugh> Do you have a manual for the VFD?
[16:09:27] <andypugh> I think it is probably worth googling the part number to find one.
[16:09:28] <ScribbleJ> No, and half the pin labels are chinese characters.!
[16:09:45] <ScribbleJ> I looked all over for a part number on the baord this morning - if there is one it's on the bottom, and I'll have to unmount it.
[16:09:59] <andypugh> No, I am talking about the VFD
[16:10:28] <ScribbleJ> I am too, I think.
[16:10:37] <ScribbleJ> I took some photos, I'll post them up in a bit.
[16:10:45] <andypugh> The box that the spindle connects to
[16:11:19] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#edge-finders/=hqgvd9 -- the "economy" edge finders are less than 1/2 the cost of the starrett ones.
[16:12:11] <joe9> i like the "audible" edge finders. anyone like such?
[16:12:25] <jdhNC> that's a pretty good crap/starrett ratio
[16:12:26] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#20995A65 http://www.mcmaster.com/#20995A66
[16:12:46] * JT-Shop guesses it is time to hook the VMC back up to see what all this tuning has done to the RPC
[16:13:24] <ScribbleJ> Yeah, the board that the spindle connects to has a big bank of pins that are all empty, which presumably would be where I'd hook up some connection to control the spindle.
[16:13:37] <jdhNC> joe9: a cheap one is $6 including shipping
[16:13:55] <joe9> jdhNC: in amazon?
[16:14:14] <joe9> or, are you being sarcastic? (a dowel pin)
[16:14:22] <jdhNC> ebay/china
[16:14:29] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#20535A651 seems to be the cheapest one in mcmastercarr
[16:14:45] <andypugh> Hmm, $10 for a cheapy or $23 for Starret? Starret for me.
[16:15:01] <joe9> andypugh: thanks, that is what I was looking for.
[16:15:10] <andypugh> I would pay that for 2 bottles of wine, after all.
[16:15:54] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: There are iPhone apps to translate chines characters.
[16:15:59] <joe9> andypugh: btw, would you recommend "single end"
http://www.mcmaster.com/#20535A681 or "double end"
http://www.mcmaster.com/#20535A654
[16:17:55] <andypugh> It won't let me browse without logging in. But you would have to be sure that the double-ended would work in your chuck. And I am not clear what the second end is for.
[16:18:49] <joe9> andypugh: oh, sorry, I did not realise that it was asking you to log in.
[16:19:03] <andypugh> It let me see the page first time round.
[16:19:15] <JT-Shop> single end for me
[16:20:18] <joe9> andypugh:
http://images2.mcmaster.com/Contents/gfx/large/20535a656p1l.png?ver=9117252
[16:20:23] <joe9> is the double end one
[16:21:17] <JT-Shop> 827A is the one I use
[16:21:18] <andypugh> I guess that the point is for centre-punches and scribed lines, but I don't know how you use them for that.
[16:21:52] <JT-Shop> I have one but never figured out what it is for so it sits in the tool box all lonely like that
[16:23:46] <joe9> i think i have to go with the 827A too. I do not have the collet for the metric one, though I prefer metric.
[16:24:21] <JT-Shop> joe9: did you read how to use one?
[16:24:24] <joe9> do you think I can squeeze the 10cm one into a 3/8inch collet?
[16:24:33] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/CXMl7KyH8yc
[16:24:38] <joe9> JT-Shop:
http://www.chaski.com/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=92462
[16:24:43] <andypugh> ER collet?
[16:24:58] <JT-Shop> tubacain is cool
[16:26:01] <joe9> andypugh: yes.
[16:26:10] <joe9> andypugh: yes, ER-16 collet.
[16:26:26] <joe9> 3/8 = 0.3750 inches = 9.5250 mm
[16:26:28] <andypugh> Buy a 10mm collet? It is likely to come in handy.
[16:26:40] <joe9> andypugh: ok, thanks. let me check on that.
[16:27:23] <andypugh> The metric ER sets are actually a little better than the imperial ones, as metric covers every size, but there are small gaps between the ranges of imperial ons.
[16:28:37] <joe9> andypugh: is there a special name for the ER metric collets?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#er-collets/=hqh6dj only has imperial stuff. maybe mc carries only imperial stuff.
[16:28:46] <andypugh> $23 for the full metric set..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280869650624
[16:29:36] <joe9> andypugh: thanks a lot. that seems to be a good buy
[16:29:40] <syyl> dabdabda
[16:29:41] <syyl> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/IMG_0516.jpg
[16:29:44] <syyl> almost done :D
[16:29:48] <syyl> including the tailstock
[16:29:52] <andypugh> I might go with
http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-14/FULL-ER16-COLLET-SET/Detail instead
[16:30:11] <andypugh> I have had stuff from CTC before and the quality is good.
[16:30:45] <andypugh> Or look for a US source to reduce the shipping.
[16:30:55] <joe9> andypugh: thanks. i will check them out.
[16:33:19] <andypugh> syyl: Unusual tailstock
[16:33:27] <syyl> jip :D
[16:33:36] <syyl> i was tired of the cranking
[16:33:37] <andypugh> rack drive?
[16:33:40] <syyl> yeah
[16:33:56] <syyl> extended the tailstockram with a round rack
[16:34:04] <andypugh> Do you still have an ejector pin?
[16:34:40] <syyl> i have a long "screw" that goes all the way trough it
[16:34:50] <syyl> with a handle on it
[16:35:02] <syyl> so its just a quick flick on the handle to eject the tool
[16:35:12] <andypugh> OK, just wanted to check before you got something stuck in there :-)
[16:35:34] <syyl> that would be embarrassing :D
[16:36:08] <andypugh> Yes. Don't ask me how I know.
[16:36:16] <syyl> ops ;)
[16:45:36] <r00t4rd3d> 4 more wires to solder
[16:46:19] <JT-Shop> syyl: looking good!
[16:46:26] <r00t4rd3d> then onto the next step, which I am not sure is atm.
[16:46:40] <syyl> thanks :)
[16:46:47] <syyl> now its almost a lathe
[16:48:27] <joe9> andypugh: quick question, with the "double ended" edge finder, is it easier to use? As, I can use a hole to find the edges on both axes?
[16:49:17] <joe9> don't bother. i do not have a 1/2inch ER collet to fit it anyway.
[16:49:19] <andypugh> I don't know how the point works. It can't do the flip that is critical to using the cylindrical end.
[16:49:41] <joe9> andypugh: ok, thanks.
[16:51:33] <JT-Shop> hmm S3000 M3 worked
[16:52:02] <andypugh> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/using-center-finder-227695/
[16:52:23] <andypugh> That seems to explain a few ways, though they all seem to suggest that not being spring-loaded would be easier..
[16:53:30] <andypugh> Ah, well, it seems that if the point is in the hole then you can use a micrometer to measure how far off the hole gentre you are.. That makes sense.
[17:21:20] <ScribbleJ> Sweet jeebus
[17:21:33] <ScribbleJ> pycam looks good at first but takes literal days to gen gcode on relatively simple models.
[17:21:51] <joe9> is this with freecad?
[17:21:59] <joe9> pycam in freecad?
[17:22:03] <ScribbleJ> No, just alone.
[17:22:07] <ScribbleJ> Does freecad include it?
[17:22:15] <ScribbleJ> Is that a better version than the one that's pycam, just?
[17:22:35] <joe9> don't know. I use heekscnc to generate gcode.
[17:22:45] <ScribbleJ> That is next on my list to try.
[17:22:52] <archivist> andypugh, I have had some ER collets from onlineseller
[17:23:11] <joe9> i use freecad to generate the .step file. then, use heekscnc to convert the .step file to gcode.
[17:23:14] <andypugh> Any good?
[17:24:18] <archivist> depends on ones definition of good :) , not perfect, some error detectable
[17:26:55] <archivist> but my test was machine a 10mm stub on the lathe then mount an er16 holder on the bit while still in the lathe, hard to tighten without bending in any way
[17:28:21] <JT-Shop> while laying on the floor and changing taps on the step up transformer on the VMC I noticed the input is 60Hz WYE could this be the problem?
[17:28:32] <JT-Shop> does the RPC put out delta?
[17:28:34] <archivist> I learnt about making the stub long enough to get to the full extent of the collet at the time else the grip is not parallel
[17:29:38] <archivist> JT-Shop, another thin about the phase, the drive likely is trying to power factor correct, it cannot do this with two lines at 180
[17:30:43] <JT-Shop> I wondered about the phase timing after you get done with all the caps
[17:30:59] <andypugh> JT-Shop: If the star point is connected to earth, then that does seem like it might cause a bit of bother.
[17:32:13] <JT-Shop> I'm still trying to digest the different "earthing" methods in the manual you linked to
[17:37:32] <archivist> the capacitor phase timing only sets the middle leg, unless you can find a real motor driving a generator, when I was googling it looks like some proper rotary converters have a motor generator as one item, not seen any pictures though
[17:38:23] <jymmm> JT-Shop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDiojAm3hy8&feature=relmfu
[17:38:44] <JT-Shop> I wonder how phase perfect does it without a generator and they don't touch L1 or L2
[17:38:52] <JT-Shop> http://www.phaseperfect.com/files/op_inst_pt.pdf
[17:39:10] <jymmm> JT-Shop: I always find it in funny that the end of every bottling line it's some poor schmuck that has to box them manually.
[17:39:30] <JT-Shop> If the connected load has a neutral connection and requires wye configured power, the output
[17:39:30] <JT-Shop> of the phase converter must be passed through a delta-to-wye isolation transformer before connection to
[17:39:30] <JT-Shop> the load.
[17:40:09] <JT-Shop> page 6
[17:41:11] <andypugh> I am pretty sure that PhasePerfect are effectively a VFD, but one using the incoming mains as a reference signal to keep mains synch.
[17:41:32] * archivist agrees
[17:41:45] <JT-Shop> http://www.transformeronline.com/prices/threephasetransformer.htm#bm2
[17:43:01] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Any possibility of disconnecting the input-side star-point and connecting the output-side star-point instead?
[17:43:07] <JT-Shop> so the block diagram on page 6 the T1 and T2 are still at 180 from each other
[17:43:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I'm not sure I understand what you mean
[17:43:37] <JT-Shop> at the stepup transformer?
[17:43:42] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:43:49] <JT-Shop> let me look at it
[17:43:59] <andypugh> You say it is Y input, what is the output?
[17:45:21] <archivist> phase perfect do not connect both lines to the output, only 1 so they can make real 120 deg 3 phase
[17:45:46] <andypugh> JT-Shop: The block diagram in the phaseperfect manual? only T2 is connected direct to the mains
[17:46:03] <archivist> they generate 2 phases unlike the idler motor method which only generates 1
[17:48:00] <JT-Shop> T1 and T2 go straight through
[17:48:30] <JT-Shop> andypugh: the stepup transformer ground is only to the frame
[17:48:55] <JT-Shop> L2 goes to T1 and the AC DC switching converter
[17:49:37] <andypugh> On your machine? Or are we talking about PhasePerfect?
[17:49:48] <ScribbleJ> Am I missing the right place or is the last update to heekscnc like 7 months ago?
[17:49:52] <JT-Shop> phase perfect block diagram on page 6
[17:50:36] <andypugh> Which page 6?
[17:50:49] <JT-Shop> http://www.phaseperfect.com/files/op_inst_pt.pdf
[17:51:10] <JT-Shop> Figure 1 Phase Perfect Block Diagram.
[17:51:50] <JT-Shop> "L1 and L2 of the single-phase input pass directly through the phase converter to provide two legs of the threephase
[17:51:51] <JT-Shop> output. A manufactured phase is combined with the two input legs to produce three-phase output power."
[17:52:09] <andypugh> Page 1?
[17:52:16] <JT-Shop> 6
[17:52:32] <atex57> Just installed Linuxcnc and PicoSystems PWM setup and have a lot of questions.
[17:52:34] <atex57> First thing though is to get an IRC setup on that machine so I copy the errors out for review.
[17:52:36] <atex57> What is a good IRC client for Ubuntu? Remember, simple is good in my case. TIA. Ed.
[17:52:37] <andypugh> The page 6 with a 1 at the bottom?
[17:52:47] <JT-Shop> aye
[17:52:56] <JT-Shop> didn't scroll down that far
[17:53:04] <JT-Shop> sorry
[17:53:04] <archivist> terrible drawing read the text
[17:53:53] <JT-Shop> atex57: satellite or normal internet?
[17:54:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I think it ties in with what Kent(?) was saying on the mailing list, that what matters is the voltage between the legs, not what they do relative to ground.
[17:54:49] <JT-Shop> funny thing the stepup transformer says WYE input but only has connections for the three phases
[17:55:24] <archivist> hmm text agrees with the drawing, how can it possible have correct phase!
[17:55:36] <andypugh> atex57: I think the stock Ubuntu installation has Pidgin pre-installed?
[17:55:39] <JT-Shop> in that case I'm at 243 ab 252 ac 252 bc
[17:55:54] <atex57> JT-shop: DSl over phone lines
[17:56:16] <JT-Shop> chatzilla is a nice plugin for firefox
[17:56:36] <archivist> atex57, I use xchat
[17:56:56] <andypugh> archivist: L1-L2 is one phase. L1-L3 is another, as is L3-L2. You can choose an L3 to make L2-L3 and L3-L1 = 120 degrees
[17:57:12] * JT-Shop does too but only because of my crappy satellite connection
[17:57:56] <andypugh> atex57: Ah, no. Not in 2.5. Pidgin is OK and available from the Ubuntu software centre
[17:58:13] * Tom_itx is gonna bring the mill inside to sort out the switches
[17:58:27] <Tom_itx> garage is just too warm
[17:58:37] <atex57> Andy: I tried Pidgin and it outsmarted me. Couldn't get it to accept freenode.
[17:59:00] <andypugh> Well, it can. But I agree it is a bit unexpected in how it works.
[17:59:00] <JT-Shop> atex57: try chatzilla it is easy to configure
[17:59:11] <JT-Shop> I like that
[17:59:25] <atex57> JT: I am using Chatzilla here on OS/2, trying to make the upgrade.
[17:59:51] <andypugh> OS/2 ? You mist be the last user in the world?
[18:00:25] <atex57> Andy: No, I know of at least 3 others.
[18:01:16] <andypugh> You know both the others?
[18:01:23] <andypugh> :-)
[18:01:43] <atex57> Off to find Chatzilla . Can I have both machines connected at the same time?
[18:01:59] <andypugh> Yes, though I think you need different nicks
[18:02:19] <atex57> BBL
[18:07:03] * JT-Shop wanders off to fire up the barbie to feed the women, they look hungry
[18:09:08] <archivist> coal is heavy, lifted 2 ton into boat, took it a few hundred yards down the canal and unloaded it tonight
[18:11:25] <ed_> Am I back on line?
[18:11:43] <andypugh> ed_: Yes
[18:11:59] <andypugh> archivist: Was that easier than just carrying it?
[18:12:20] <Thetawaves> a 5 gallon bucket of coal is HEAVY
[18:12:22] <ed_> Ya and I screwed that up, it was supposed to come up as atex57
[18:12:37] <Thetawaves> it really isn't possible to move quantities of coal by hand
[18:12:48] <archivist> andypugh, there is no quicker route, no vehicle access
[18:13:08] <archivist> except for canal barge
[18:14:06] <archivist> muggins was in the barge for loading and unloading
[18:15:56] <archivist> we no longer use this boat but the pump is left middle behind the trees
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2001/2001_04_31_Leawood/P4300030.JPG
[18:17:36] <Thetawaves> how much does one of those bags weigh?
[18:17:56] <atex57> Did I get it right yhis time?\
[18:18:00] <archivist> current bags are 25kg
[18:18:22] <archivist> atex57, that would be telling
[18:18:52] <atex57> Almost. spelling ain't the best
[19:15:18] <atex57> OK Back to it. When I do an install with the stock Pico System PWM files everything loads OK, the encoders show a change when I tweak each axis. If I make any changes to the INI file it throws up an error file with the problems. Where is a good place to post these so someone else can look at them?
[19:18:10] <andypugh> www.pastebin.org
[19:20:26] <atex57> I clicked on that and it came up as pastebin.com, not org. Same thing?
[19:20:39] <andypugh> yes
[19:26:54] <atex57> OK, the error file is on pastebin with the name of hardinge-chnc-atex57
[19:28:26] <atex57> The only changes from org file was change axes to 3 and remove A from the list to cause this error
[19:30:13] <andypugh> It's easier to give the URL, the name was about number 50 in the list...
[19:31:09] <andypugh> The real problem is: "univpwm_servo.hal:16: Pin 'axis.3.motor-pos-fb' does not exist"
[19:31:27] <andypugh> Do you have an Axis.3 ? Typically that would be A.
[19:31:41] <Tom_itx> ok i don't quite get this. with the main psu unplugged i get 3.2v on an open limit switch and with it plugged in i get 4.65v
[19:32:06] <Tom_itx> ground on the meter is on the mesa card
[19:32:08] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Mesa card?
[19:32:10] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:32:24] <Tom_itx> the voltage is taken at the switch
[19:32:28] <andypugh> 5V from the main PSU to the Mesa card?
[19:32:39] <andypugh> It will run from PCI voltage at 3.3 I think
[19:32:45] <Tom_itx> off the 50 pin header
[19:33:01] <Tom_itx> why the voltage fluctuation though?
[19:33:16] <andypugh> Unless there is a 5V supply to the mesa card it only has 3.3V from the PCI bus (I think)
[19:33:19] <Tom_itx> the mesa card is powered off the usb from the pc
[19:33:46] <andypugh> 7i43?
[19:33:54] <Tom_itx> yes along with a 7i47
[19:34:01] <andypugh> Jumpered for USB power?
[19:34:08] <Tom_itx> but the switches are coming right off teh 7i43
[19:34:10] <Tom_itx> yes
[19:34:21] <andypugh> The honest answer is, I have no idea.
[19:34:29] <Tom_itx> heh, me either
[19:34:30] <Tom_itx> yet
[19:34:39] <Tom_itx> it worked ok with the old drivers and psu
[19:34:44] <andypugh> pcw_home: would be the best bet
[19:35:00] <Tom_itx> i hate to make a bunch of changes not knowing
[19:35:14] <Tom_itx> i brought it in my office to try to debug
[19:35:32] <andypugh> atex57: You need to remove all references to axis.3 if you only have 3 axes.
[19:36:04] <andypugh> Anyway, I need to log off and sleep.
[19:36:07] <andypugh> Night all.
[19:36:41] <Tom_itx> maybe i should try powering it from a regular 5v supply
[19:36:57] <robin_sz> mmmm
[19:37:23] <Tom_itx> the grounds etc would be alot closer to being common
[19:37:40] <Tom_itx> i just can't figure out the voltage fluxuation
[19:38:07] <Tom_itx> the cables to the machine are shielded
[19:43:43] <Tom_itx> the voltage to the switches is 4.79 ... 4.86v before linuxcnc is launnched and the config files read
[19:48:40] <Tom_itx> ok, which way is best to wire a limit switch, normaly grounded and when tripped goes to 5v or normally 5v and goes to ground when tripped?
[19:49:45] <Tom_itx> of all things this is the last i figured i'd have problems with
[19:55:25] <pcw_home> 3.2 v is because the 7I43 has pullups to 3.3V so open inputs will be at ~3.3V
[19:55:27] <pcw_home> if add an external pullup resistor to 5V or drive them with a 5V signal
[19:55:29] <pcw_home> you can pull them up to 5V
[19:55:45] <skunkworks__> I get is kick out of old house construction...
http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/StartBathremod.JPG
[19:55:47] <skunkworks__> \
[19:56:09] <skunkworks__> yes - the stack was cut right through the floor joists.
[19:58:00] <pcw_home> if you use bare FPGA pins for switch inputs you need to ground them through the switches since all FPGA pins have pullups
[19:58:26] <Valen> skunkworks its ok joists are strong right?
[19:58:27] <Valen> ;-P
[19:58:55] <pcw_home> whats the rule of thumb? no more than 40% gone?
[19:59:57] <pcw_home> (or maybe thats for termites)
[20:00:40] <Valen> in my place they put a wall mount AC in
[20:00:51] <Valen> here we dont shethe the building in ply
[20:00:58] <Valen> we just put timber diagonals in
[20:01:03] <Valen> well they cut the diagonal
[20:01:11] <pcw_home> ouch
[20:02:07] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, so under normal conditions they are low?
[20:02:17] <Tom_itx> and when tripped it opens and goes to 3.3v or so
[20:02:50] <Valen> like this
http://toolboxes.flexiblelearning.net.au/demosites/series13/13_05/toolbox13_05/unit7_assembling_wall_frames/images/internal_wall_frame.jpg but recessed into the wall, and usually a 1x1 bit of timber (you can see the new way they do it with the metal strapping on the other side of the wall)
[20:02:51] <pcw_home> thats the easiest thingfor bare FPGA pins
[20:03:08] <Tom_itx> i'm double checking the wiring to make sure that's what i have
[20:03:20] <Valen> I'd be wary about having bare fpga i/os running any distance, they are pretty fragile as i recall
[20:03:53] <Tom_itx> pcw_home it's ok to use them that way right? or should they be buffered....
[20:04:15] <pcw_home> lots of people use them but if you connect to 12v or so its all over
[20:04:22] <Tom_itx> i know
[20:04:33] <pcw_home> or -1V
[20:04:38] <Tom_itx> at best it will be from a 5v supply
[20:04:41] <Valen> or a staticy hand?
[20:05:35] <Tom_itx> i'll post a line to see if i have that part right.. hang on
[20:05:57] <pcw_home> yeah although most damaged cards we see have blown protection diodes which means to high a voltage and no current limiting
[20:06:15] <atom1> net x-pos-limit hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[20:06:20] <pcw_home> seen and too high
[20:06:23] <atom1> does that part look ok?
[20:07:03] <atom1> or should i configure the pin differently first
[20:07:20] <pcw_home> looks ok (high for "past-limit"
[20:07:33] <Tom_itx> or open
[20:07:35] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:08:30] <pcw_home> what does watch show if you click the limit switches?
[20:08:52] <Tom_itx> i haven't tried it yet
[20:09:08] <Tom_itx> this setup worked fine with my old drivers and psu setup
[20:09:27] <Tom_itx> this is a new driver psu and drivers (gecko 203v)
[20:09:45] <Tom_itx> for some reason when i plug them in it interferes with it
[20:09:46] <pcw_home> watch is handy and you can save a watch list
[20:09:52] <Tom_itx> i've checked the grounds etc
[20:10:04] <Tom_itx> i'll check that once i double check the wiring
[20:10:35] <pcw_home> well the FPGA inputs are just TTL threshold so you have only about 1.5V of noise immunity
[20:10:45] <jymmm> JT-Shop: got one of these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_5dmULUJ0
[20:12:39] <pcw_home> if they basically work (check with watch) but are noisy you probably need to look at your wiring / grounding carefully or add hardware or software debounce
[20:17:05] <pcw_home> Note that your step drives (50V?) put 50V rectangular waves into the stepmotor with perhaps 20-50 ns rise times, This drives the winding --> frame capacitance of your stepmotors so you get basically unlimited magnitude current spikes from step motor frame ground back to the drive
[20:17:07] <pcw_home> this can easily generate couple volt spikes _everywhere_
[20:22:28] <Tom_itx> would it help to run shielded wire to the switches?
[20:23:01] <Tom_itx> it's shielded up to where it enters the machine enclosure
[20:23:55] <cylly2> and ists a good idea to set the shield only on ONE end to ground
[20:24:09] <Tom_itx> yeah i know that one
[20:24:15] <cylly2> let the other end float
[20:24:37] <pcw_home> Yes as long as the shield terminates at the 7I43 end (and does not touch frame ground)
[20:25:43] <Tom_itx> just curious but why is only one mount screw on the gnd plane on that card?
[20:25:59] <Tom_itx> the one by the usb connector is
[20:26:17] <Loetmichel> hrmpf... i should go to bed... the clock rings in 3,5hrs to wake me for work...
[20:26:37] <Tom_itx> sleep when you get there
[20:26:39] <pcw_home> no mounting hole should be grounded (but one near USB connector has AC gnd)
[20:33:32] <pcw_home> you can get rid of a lot of step drive noise with couple common mode chokes (one per step motor winding) basically a overgrown ferrite bead
[20:34:58] <Tom_itx> wind the wire thru it like you see on monitors?
[20:35:05] <Tom_itx> or used to..
[20:35:43] <pcw_home> these limit the magnitude of the current spikes into the step drive/motor frame capacitance
[20:36:09] <Tom_itx> once i finish checking the switch wiring i'll double check the frames are grounded as well
[20:36:55] <pcw_home> Ive had good luck straight through but it probably depends on the core material
[20:39:20] <pcw_home> of course the usual things (twist A,/A and B,/B step motor wires)
[20:39:22] <pcw_home> step wires away from other signals etc
[20:56:55] <r00t4rd3d> What I accomplished today, motor wire extensions soldered, shrink tubed and taped:
[20:56:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/mgtPZ.jpg
[20:58:52] <Tom_itx> been there:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/motors/stepper9.jpg
[21:00:47] <r00t4rd3d> i like to solder and am good at it but after 4 wires i was ready to kill myself
[21:01:30] <r00t4rd3d> stripping, twisting, fluxing, more twisting
[21:01:37] <r00t4rd3d> tinning
[21:03:00] <jdhNC> I put terminal strips next to the motors on my router.
[21:03:22] <r00t4rd3d> i have some for a breadboard
[21:03:26] <jdhNC> I'm planning on 4-pin connectors for these mounted in small project boxes mounted on the steppoer offsets
[21:04:21] <r00t4rd3d> i should have used bnc connectors
[21:04:43] <r00t4rd3d> i still might for my board connections
[21:04:48] <jdhNC> that would take a lot of BNC connectors
[21:16:09] <jymmm> taped? What is this, ghetto cabling... you dont use tape!
[21:16:53] <jymmm> unless it's teflon tape for plumbing
[21:21:14] <r00t4rd3d> just to hold the wires together
[21:21:23] <r00t4rd3d> i soldered all the connections
[21:21:32] <jymmm> heat shrink tubing
[21:21:38] <jymmm> spiral wrap
[21:21:40] <r00t4rd3d> i used that too
[21:21:43] <jymmm> split loom tubing
[21:21:54] <r00t4rd3d> im using wire chain
[21:21:55] <jymmm> 1/2" heat shrink tubing
[21:22:44] <jymmm> I would have used shielded cabling
[21:26:01] <Tom_itx> jymmm, whag gage?
[21:26:16] <Tom_itx> whst*
[21:26:20] <jymmm> 18
[21:26:21] <Tom_itx> i give up
[21:26:37] <Tom_itx> trying to type over a pile of test equipment
[21:26:59] <Tom_itx> that's it?
[21:27:01] <jymmm> HD has/had 2 pair shielded 18ga cable
[21:27:10] <jymmm> by the foot
[21:27:13] <Tom_itx> for steppers?
[21:27:32] <jymmm> for anything
[21:27:54] <Tom_itx> i didn't use shielded but i think it's 14 or 16
[21:28:02] <Tom_itx> probably 16
[21:28:08] <jymmm> nema 23?
[21:28:12] <Tom_itx> ja
[21:28:19] <jymmm> 4a?
[21:28:27] <Tom_itx> if i reconfigure them yes
[21:29:11] <Tom_itx> maybe i should cut the wires off the old ones and use it
[21:29:20] <Tom_itx> it may be shielded, i can't tell
[21:30:02] <Tom_itx> i think my switch wiring is right
[21:32:52] <jymmm> ou can use 18ga for 40A @ 3ft, 24A @ 5ft, 15A @ 10ft, 8A @ 15ft, 7A @ 25ft,
[21:33:23] <Tom_itx> this was stuff i had
[21:33:32] <jymmm> ah
[21:34:28] <Tom_itx> if i find out the original steppers wires were shielded i may cut them off and use them instead
[21:35:52] <Tom_itx> i think they were 6 wire steppers and the ones i have now are 8
[21:36:05] <Tom_itx> not that it matters
[21:36:39] <jymmm> =)
[21:37:05] <Tom_itx> do you sell a kit?
[21:37:19] <Tom_itx> it sounded like you had something the other day
[21:37:39] <jymmm> What did I say the other day?
[21:38:12] <r00t4rd3d> that you were secretly fond of Tom.
[21:38:55] <jymmm> r00t4rd3d: I told you that in the confidence of our bed you bastard!
[21:39:37] <r00t4rd3d> i could not understand you, your mouth was full.
[21:39:39] <Tom_itx> [22:42:21] <jymmm> $1300 for that?! I could easily sell mine for much more then, cool!
[21:40:25] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Oh, my router as it has a gorliia stnad, dust enclosure, and shit load of componantes and enclosures I'm including
[21:40:37] <jymmm> computers, etc
[21:40:43] <r00t4rd3d> put it on ebay
[21:40:50] <Tom_itx> oh so just a one off sale
[21:40:58] <Tom_itx> why are you gettin rid of it?
[21:41:14] <r00t4rd3d> he is smoking that shit again
[21:41:32] <Tom_itx> sounds like you both are
[21:41:36] <r00t4rd3d> cracks rock or what ever you call it
[21:41:46] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Well, I have the laser now, and that was my original intension, I bought/build the router as a pseudo laser.
[21:42:26] <Tom_itx> so umm, did you ever fix the laser table?
[21:42:28] <jymmm> PLus mine has a 24x24x5 travel
[21:42:44] <jymmm> the router that is
[21:43:00] <r00t4rd3d> mine is 12x36x10
[21:43:08] <jymmm> and a 2.25HP spindle 18-25K rpm soft start
[21:43:11] <Tom_itx> show off
[21:44:13] <Tom_itx> well crap, i'm not sure where to go with this
[21:44:29] <jymmm> Hell, I'm even including Parker OEM650/750 drives too
[21:45:23] <jymmm> industrial connectors, controls, etc
[21:45:37] <jymmm> DIn rail stuff
[21:47:45] <jymmm> Tom_itx: I'm also kinda getting rid of stuff to prepare to move sometime in the future. So anything of bulk is pretty much gone. Enough pack ratting.
[21:48:10] <jymmm> consolidate, shrink, reduce is the goal
[21:48:34] <jymmm> Tom_itx: you never saw my racks?
[21:48:53] <Tom_itx> you got quite a rack?
[21:49:07] <jymmm> plural
[21:49:20] <Tom_itx> crap, this is 22 ga
[21:49:25] <Tom_itx> what's that good for?
[21:49:30] <Tom_itx> on the old steppers...
[21:49:33] <jymmm> steppers, telco
[21:49:45] <jymmm> stranded or solid ?
[21:49:56] <Tom_itx> belden M-8723
[21:50:10] <jymmm> I'm not going to look that shit up
[21:50:22] <Tom_itx> aww c'mon
[21:50:32] <Tom_itx> stranded
[21:50:52] <jymmm> should be find for 3a
[21:51:05] <Tom_itx> i want 4
[21:51:30] <Tom_itx> i wonder what that white jacketed wire i have is..
[21:51:49] <Tom_itx> i'd have to double them up but it's shielded
[23:38:09] <jdhNC> http://tinyurl.com/cqq22d5 Not quite square, but close enough.
[23:52:45] <Connor> What did you use ?
[23:52:53] <Connor> jdhNC: ?
[23:53:01] <jdhNC> X2, .5" HSS end mill
[23:53:11] <Connor> Ah. How come not square? :)
[23:53:31] <jdhNC> didn't clamp it square to the table
[23:54:04] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/130097-connors_g0704-11.html#post1120276
[23:54:19] <Connor> Posts and Photos, including my home switch and my E-Stop control box
[23:55:46] <jdhNC> I spent an hour picking aluminum chips out of everything before I could get the table off.
[23:56:05] <Connor> Shop Vac!
[23:56:10] <jdhNC> that too
[23:56:45] <jdhNC> I put another spst switch between the f/r & speed pot for disabling the C41 spindle disable
[23:56:50] <Connor> on #3 of my stepper covers.. first 1 not good, had to redesign. 2nd one great except I forgot to mirror the freaking holes to mount it to the stepper... so they're backwards..
[23:57:01] <jdhNC> got pics?
[23:57:10] <Connor> NOt yet. the 3rd one will be done shortly.
[23:57:42] <Connor> Letting the PVC cement setup on the last layer so I can surface that, pocket out the hole for the 4 pin connector and then profile cut.
[23:58:01] <jdhNC> how are you holding it?
[23:58:01] <Connor> probably another 30 or 40 minutes and a tool change.. :)
[23:58:07] <Connor> in the vise.
[23:58:35] <Connor> 3.5" x .75" pvc.. clamp it in the vise.. mill out the main pocket.
[23:59:01] <Connor> glue smaller 2nd pvc over the "2nd pocket" let it pocket it out..
[23:59:12] <Connor> then, it surfaces the main pocket and the 2nd pocket.
[23:59:18] <Connor> glue 3rd on top of 2nd.
[23:59:33] <jdhNC> my ways/gibs/etc were pretty clean (spotless now)
[23:59:51] <Connor> surface, then the connector hole, then profile out the part. then drill the 4 holes.
