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[00:43:26] <toner> <Valen> i *think* what the guy is wanting is airborne plankton
[00:43:34] <toner> there's all kinds of yeast and other stuff floating around, though
[00:44:08] <Valen> nothing that i know thats actually boyant though
[00:44:17] <toner> ah
[00:44:22] <Valen> i wonder if you could do that
[00:44:24] <toner> I didn't actually read the link ;)
[00:44:29] <Valen> bit of hydrogen is easy to come by
[00:44:35] <toner> I'm sure it's possible
[00:44:44] <toner> a thin balloon with warm air inside will float
[00:44:45] <Valen> i wonder if it scales down though
[00:44:56] <Valen> surface area vs volume
[00:44:59] <toner> I bet it could
[00:45:05] <Valen> mmm i dunno
[00:45:09] <toner> those little spiders have no problem catching a breeze and taking off
[00:45:18] <Valen> thats still not boyancy
[00:45:19] <toner> but that's different
[00:45:21] <toner> right
[00:45:28] <Valen> thats flying not floating
[00:45:32] <toner> hehe
[00:45:49] <toner> well, if you can form a balloon with a thin enough wall
[00:46:02] <toner> a little bit of heat or lighter gas will lift it
[00:46:09] <Valen> thing is you need to have enough cellular widgets to make said ballon
[00:46:16] <Valen> then the balloon needs to lift said widgets
[00:46:35] <toner> I'm sure there are plenty of organic structures that would be suitable
[00:46:50] * toner has no clue how to engineer one
[00:46:56] <Valen> most cell walls are lipids, which aren't going to be that light
[00:47:02] <toner> but, such a thing could exist
[00:47:04] <Valen> plankton and stuff make shell type walls
[00:47:15] <toner> not so light, but thin and strong
[00:47:21] <Valen> I'm just wondering how small it could be
[00:47:31] <Valen> on venus i can see it working
[00:47:32] <toner> yeah, that's an interesting question
[00:47:45] <Valen> lots more atmosphere to work with there
[00:47:58] <Valen> a cubic meter of air only weighs something like 1.4kg
[00:48:02] <toner> heh
[00:49:04] <Valen> now look at a helium balloon
[00:49:19] <Valen> see how much it weighs and how big it needs to be to lift off
[00:49:54] <Valen> as you reduce the size of the balloon the volume shrinks with a ^3 in it, but the surface area of the balloon only shrinks with a ^2
[00:51:20] <Valen> perhaps something the size of a golf ball might work
[00:51:27] <Valen> or a bit smaller
[00:51:37] <Valen> some kind of multi celled organism I think
[00:51:50] <Valen> coat the outside in photosynthetic stuff
[00:52:14] <Valen> when it gets to baseball size it'll start budding off other ones that seperate when they get to golfball size
[00:53:06] <Valen> sounds almost cute
[00:53:10] <Valen> till it blots out the sun
[00:53:24] <Valen> also a fire would be pretty friggin epic
[00:53:41] <Valen> (assuming your watching from a safe distance, like the moon)
[00:53:55] <Valen> i feel a short story of a sci-fi nature lol
[02:04:51] <DJ9DJ> moin
[02:16:49] <toner> morning dj
[02:17:02] <toner> Valen: I was thinking smaller than a blueberry
[02:17:17] <toner> but I think it could be smaller than you could see
[02:17:21] <toner> microscale
[02:17:58] <toner> I've seen very small soap bubbles float :P
[02:19:18] <toner> Valen: buckminster fuller thought about the other extreme of that, though
[02:19:19] <toner> neat idea
[02:19:29] <toner> basically you build a really, really big geodesic sphere
[02:19:36] <toner> with some kind of membrane around it
[02:20:24] <toner> and if you get the ratio of wall-thickness/interior-volume good enough, you can keep the inside like 1 deg C warmer than the outside and the whole thing floats
[02:20:28] * toner likes this
[02:22:17] <toner> I guess it's basically like a hot-air balloon
[02:23:52] <Valen> by definition ;->
[02:24:06] <Valen> you could be snarky and call it a warm air balloon
[02:24:15] <toner> hehe
[02:24:24] <Valen> be pretty restricted where it could go though
[02:24:30] <toner> yeah
[02:24:32] <Valen> crusing the tropics would suck
[02:25:17] <toner> it doesn't really make sense to make something that large if gravity forces you to live on the bottom portion of it :P
[02:25:29] <Valen> not that big i believe
[02:25:38] <Valen> somebody was looking at it again recently
[02:25:45] <toner> hm, yeah I guess hot air balloons are not so large
[02:25:50] <toner> but they have a very thin nylon skin
[02:26:06] <toner> almost no structural support
[02:26:19] <toner> I guess it relies on the hot air pushing outwards to hold the shape
[02:26:24] <Valen> square cube law is your friend as you get bigger
[02:26:25] <toner> and the nylon has nice sheer strength
[02:27:24] <toner> hmmm
[02:27:43] * toner builds an airship
[02:29:02] <Valen> http://www.cloudhopper.org/.
[02:29:10] <Valen> i hope your using hyrdogen for it
[02:29:19] <Valen> helium is a non renewable resource afterall
[02:29:54] <awallin> Valen: isn't there a lot of He on the moon? :)
[02:30:19] <Valen> thats HE3 that people want for fusion power
[02:30:40] <Valen> assuming fusion power works, they are predicting a price ~= gold for it
[03:26:14] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[03:27:35] <Valen> howdy
[03:27:39] <Valen> that reminds me
[03:27:53] <Valen> i have a spare laptop, my dad wants a DRO for his lathe
[03:27:59] <Valen> it has the encoders on it already
[03:28:04] <Valen> and the laptop has a parallel port
[03:28:14] <Valen> how much mucking about with HAL am i looking at here ;->
[03:28:39] <Loetmichel> why linuxCNC for DISPLAY?
[03:28:49] <Loetmichel> google yadro
[03:32:23] <cabbage> Hey guys
[03:32:38] <Valen> i was hoping not to add any more components
[03:32:54] <cabbage> ive just finished building a co2 laser and am thinking of running it on linuxcnc
[03:34:31] <Loetmichel> Valen: yadro is a software for old laptops to display digital calipers
[03:34:41] <Loetmichel> and can iirc cope with encoders also
[03:34:58] <Valen> but it needs some micro controller to talk to it
[03:35:07] <Loetmichel> and only needs an old 486 laptop or so, dos
[03:35:14] <Valen> the laptop is fine
[03:35:19] <Valen> its a pentium M 2ghz
[03:35:20] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[03:35:21] <Valen> no hdd though
[03:35:45] <Valen> and that yadro thing needs a $100 pcb
[03:35:49] <Loetmichel> it needs a controller for the calipers
[03:36:04] <Valen> it only talks serial port by the sound of things
[03:36:05] <Loetmichel> does it need one for encoders? dont remember
[03:36:12] <Loetmichel> ah, i seee
[03:36:18] <Valen> http://www.yadro.de/dro/interface.html
[03:36:23] <Loetmichel> seen that long time ago ;-)
[03:36:24] <Loetmichel> sorry
[03:36:28] <Valen> no worries
[03:36:37] <Valen> I just know EMC has the functions i need
[03:36:42] <Valen> and it talks parallel port
[03:36:48] <Valen> i figured it was half way there lol
[03:37:18] <Loetmichel> IF you can convince linuxcnc to ignore the fact that is has no motors... maybe
[03:37:23] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[03:42:24] <Tom_itx> Valen, read the quadrature with an avr and display it on a 7 seg display
[03:43:16] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: he doesent want to build more electronics.
[03:43:53] * Loetmichel would do that stand-alone also
[03:44:22] <Loetmichel> bu $me has some 20 avr and som 50 4 digit lemon 7se-leds laying around ;-)
[04:10:08] <Valen> he just wants me to buy more stuff off him ;-P
[04:10:23] <Valen> he's my AVR supplier ;->
[04:14:24] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[04:16:06] <alex_joni> Valen: using only HAL you can easily do that
[04:16:21] <Valen> i figured that
[04:16:32] <Valen> I'll have to fire up emc on this thing and see what the latency is still
[04:16:41] <Valen> if its really bad it'll miss counts
[04:16:42] <alex_joni> right
[04:17:01] <alex_joni> what encoder resolution?
[04:17:08] <alex_joni> and what speeds are you looking at?
[04:17:26] <alex_joni> counting something like 20k pulses/second is somehow reliable
[04:17:29] <Valen> 5um and however fast he can spin the handle
[04:17:39] <alex_joni> much above that gets questionable
[04:53:26] <alex_joni> Valen: 5um is not really a value I can use
[04:53:45] <alex_joni> you either have linear scales , then 5um makes some sense
[04:53:57] <alex_joni> or you have encoders, then you get xx pulses/rotation
[04:54:15] <alex_joni> (obviously the 5um can get converted, if you know the screw tpi)
[04:56:35] <Valen> i have linear scales
[04:56:40] <Valen> glass slides
[04:57:07] <Valen> but as far as emc is concerned theres no difference
[04:57:22] <Valen> and most people only know about encoders ;->
[07:22:06] <Tom_itx> pcw_home what's the difference between the svst2_4_7i47s.bit and the svst2_4_7i47b.bit files?
[07:28:29] <jthornton> it is amazing that people selling fly rods for >1k on flea bay have the gall to charge $20 shipping
[07:30:06] <Tom_itx> 1k20 just doesn't sound right
[07:31:29] <Tom_itx> my old controller is too slow to work right with the drivers but i did get the setup tested
[07:31:48] <Tom_itx> and proceeded to install ubuntu again
[07:31:53] <Tom_itx> now i need a bit file
[07:32:09] <Tom_itx> well i have one but not sure if it's the right one
[07:33:08] <jthornton> I know nothing about the 7i47 but you could try each one to see what it has
[07:33:20] <Tom_itx> jthornton how did you arrive at those numbers for your steplen and stepspace?
[07:34:28] <jthornton> probably reading the 203v manual or asking Marris on the zone... been a long time
[07:34:56] <Tom_itx> k, just wondered since the manual says a 50% duty pulse
[07:35:47] <Tom_itx> it didn't seem to matter alot when i tested the old controller though
[07:35:59] <Tom_itx> i tried several different ones
[07:36:08] <Tom_itx> the freq is just too slow on it though
[07:36:29] <jthornton> http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-step-motor-drives/g203v.html
[07:36:44] <Tom_itx> i've got the printed one
[07:37:20] <jthornton> I must have read it in the manual
[07:37:46] <Tom_itx> i'll finish the install today hopefully and maybe get some testing done tonight
[07:38:09] <Tom_itx> at least the psu didn't go up in smoke
[07:38:33] <jthornton> that's always a good thing
[07:39:49] <jthornton> I need to bite the bullet and convert the Anilam on the BP knee mill
[07:41:20] <jthornton> I've got all the wires traced out and documented so in theory I'm ready to make the swap
[07:44:42] <jymmm> jthorntonJust tell me the wires are not 'stamped'
[07:47:26] <jthornton> no I didn't step on them
[07:50:54] <jymmm> I was wiring up a dayton 220/440 5hp motor one time for 220 3ph. It had the wires 'hot stamped' with a number on each one. Except when I wired up #6, it really was #8 with part of the 'hot stamp' rubbed off. Stunk like crazy when we hit the power.
[07:53:57] <jymmm> jthornton: I just didn't want you to have the same #6 and #8 issue as I did.
[07:58:43] <jthornton> the other pair with mis-matched numbers should have been your clue that something was wrong
[07:59:25] <jymmm> jthornton: There was no other pair of mis-matched wires; those were used for 440 only
[08:00:11] <jymmm> and unused for 220 operation
[08:00:29] <jthornton> never heard of that wiring scheme
[08:01:08] <jymmm> Me neither, but since I just had blew up an expensive motor I did check that.
[08:05:37] <alex_joni> blown*
[08:06:07] <jymmm> alex_joni: your momma!
[08:06:21] <alex_joni> yo momma
[08:09:25] <jymmm> How can you tell if something has a high carbon content? Like a knife or bar stock?
[08:19:08] <syyl> know the spark test?
[08:19:20] <syyl> hold the piece against a bench grinder
[08:19:23] <syyl> and watch the sparks
[08:19:25] <jymmm> flint n steel
[08:19:46] <syyl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing
[08:20:20] <syyl> if the sparks are burning like fireworks, you got a high carbon steel
[08:20:21] <syyl> :D
[08:20:32] <jymmm> Heh, I get sparks from everything when I use my angle grinder =) My goal is 50ft sparks, only up to 20ft so far
[08:20:55] <syyl> sparks != sparks
[08:20:56] <syyl> :P
[08:21:13] <jymmm> O_o
[08:21:14] <syyl> at least for the machinist..
[08:21:21] <jymmm> ah
[08:21:45] <jymmm> Well, I meant a none destructive method. Like at a flea market looking at knives
[08:21:53] <syyl> ah ok
[08:22:07] <syyl> those people dont like if you grind a piece of their stuff ;)
[08:22:38] <jymmm> and carrying around a grinder and 10,000 foot extension cord not too fun either
[08:22:48] <syyl> no cordless anglegrinder? :P
[08:22:52] <alex_joni> you can try bending it.. if it snaps, it's probably high carbon
[08:22:59] <alex_joni> s/it's/it was/
[08:23:06] <syyl> or try to scratch glass
[08:23:14] <jymmm> alex_joni: non-destructive =)
[08:23:32] <alex_joni> well, it's non-destructive in some cases :D
[08:23:41] <jymmm> syyl: wont a ss knife screw glass?
[08:23:46] <jymmm> scratch
[08:23:46] <syyl> "its ok, just a bit bent"
[08:24:15] <syyl> most high carbon steels can be hardened to scratch glass
[08:24:24] <syyl> but my leatherman wave is unable to do...
[08:24:40] <jymmm> you didnt try hard enough
[08:24:47] <syyl> i like my tools ;)
[08:25:00] <jymmm> it has a lifetime warranty
[08:25:07] <syyl> i know
[08:25:13] <jymmm> do you have the riginal or newer wave?
[08:25:14] <syyl> but i like it as it is :D
[08:25:17] <jymmm> original
[08:25:23] <syyl> the 2004(?) wave
[08:25:42] <jymmm> brown leather sheaf?
[08:25:49] <syyl> black it was
[08:25:56] <jymmm> leather?
[08:25:57] <syyl> now its brown
[08:25:58] <syyl> yeah
[08:26:05] <jymmm> mine too
[08:26:13] <jymmm> but brown
[08:26:29] <syyl> http://gtwr.de/leatherman.jpg
[08:26:53] <jymmm> I like it, but too many fucking flat blade screwdrivers and all are crap tips
[08:27:03] <syyl> got that &"ยง/!! maglite for free with the wave
[08:27:13] <jymmm> sorry to hear it
[08:27:32] <jymmm> Oh, yours is newer than mine
[08:27:40] <Loetmichel> jymmm: thats what the bit holder is for
[08:27:49] <syyl> i like it, its a good tool
[08:27:57] <syyl> not heavy duty, but ok
[08:28:03] <jymmm> Loetmichel: I dont have a bit holder
[08:28:17] <Loetmichel> mine:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12165
[08:28:19] <jymmm> thats the newer wave
[08:28:43] <syyl> still waiting for the leatherman oht
[08:28:49] <Loetmichel> jymmm: got it ager killing my old one... they have no spare parts for it
[08:28:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12016
[08:29:11] <Loetmichel> so they returned me a new wave instead of my old one
[08:29:47] <Loetmichel> i like the lifelong free repair policy ;-)
[08:29:56] <jymmm> Yeah, that's what I have.
[08:30:29] <Loetmichel> hmm, i had a bitholder in the old set
[08:30:31] <Loetmichel> mometn
[08:30:39] <jymmm> I love the diamond file, too bad it's not removable so you could use it to sharpen the blade
[08:30:58] <syyl> for my taste it would be to rough to sharpen the blade
[08:31:04] <syyl> i prefer an arkansas stone
[08:31:16] <syyl> like it sharp as hell ;)
[08:31:20] <jymmm> If you have it on you
[08:31:56] <Valen> i have a leatherman squirt P4 on my keyring
[08:31:59] <syyl> i have one in my backpack
[08:32:15] <syyl> and one in the toolkit of the car
[08:32:34] <jymmm> I just picked up a Buck Knives diamond sharpener, one end is tapered so you can sharpen serrated blades
[08:32:48] <Loetmichel> jymmm:
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13224
[08:32:51] <jymmm> and of course has a lifetime warranty
[08:33:22] <syyl> ah, i know somebody that has that buck sharpener "pen"
[08:33:29] <syyl> it seems to work very well
[08:33:34] <Valen> http://www.leatherman.com/product/Squirt_P4 is mine
[08:33:49] <Valen> best christmass present ever ;->
[08:34:07] <syyl> the squirts are nice, yeah :D
[08:34:15] <syyl> pretty capable for their size
[08:34:19] <Valen> i like that its small enough to go onto my keyring
[08:34:27] <Valen> i use it all the time
[08:35:04] <Valen> also the nylon holster thing is just big enough that i can fit a super tiny 8Gb USB key in it
[08:35:07] <jymmm> syyl:
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=product.detail&productID=3033
[08:35:31] <jymmm> I wish they had a finer grit one as well
[08:35:32] <syyl> jep, thats the one
[08:37:59] * jymmm crank calls Loetmichel
[08:38:08] <jymmm> ;)
[08:38:10] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[08:38:54] <jymmm> Loetmichel: I can call anywhere on the planet for free, off planet is like $8/minute
[08:39:00] <syyl> i got a old style swiss tool
[08:39:06] <syyl> thats heavy duty ;)
[08:39:19] <syyl> but it weights a ton
[08:39:22] <jymmm> victronox?
[08:39:27] <syyl> yeah
[08:39:45] <syyl> used to carry it for a few years on daily basis
[08:39:49] <jymmm> I'm STILL trying to figure out why they always has a corkscrew =)
[08:40:00] <syyl> the swisstool has none :(
[08:40:04] <syyl> but then i switched to the wave
[08:40:06] <jymmm> Bunch of drunk soldiers?
[08:40:08] <Valen> so you can get drunk on good wine after using it lol
[08:40:19] <Loetmichel> jymmm: the engraving has proven its woth two times 'til now... i tend to be a bit forgetfil ;-)
[08:40:22] <syyl> as it is smaller and easier to handle (i.e. onehanded blades)
[08:40:41] <jymmm> Loetmichel: Really? that's cool =)
[08:41:17] <jymmm> You can get a #4 or #6 split ring at the fishing store fror lanyard use
[08:42:14] <syyl> uh
[08:42:15] <syyl> http://www.leatherman.com/product/Sidekick
[08:42:19] <syyl> never saw that one
[08:42:25] <syyl> with spring action pliers
[08:43:18] <Loetmichel> jymmm: yeah, it seems the species "honest finder" isnt extinct here ;-)
[08:43:28] <jymmm> =)
[08:43:38] <jymmm> Ewwwwwwww file and saw look like crap
[08:44:33] <Loetmichel> hmm, the wave saw is useable
[08:44:37] <Loetmichel> and the file too
[08:44:44] <jymmm> yep
[08:44:52] <Valen> the squirt pliers are spring loaded
[08:44:56] <Valen> rather neatly too
[08:45:01] <jymmm> and the serrated blade on the wingman is useless
[08:45:10] <Valen> they have little torsion style springs in the handle
[08:45:18] <syyl> i like the way the pliers on the squirt unfold, Valen :D
[08:45:27] <Valen> syyl: i love the noise they make lol
[08:45:31] <Loetmichel> the saw has freed me out of a decoration made of 21mm thick "pressed wood chips" plates
[08:45:35] <Valen> I have often thaught about making a set of pliers
[08:45:39] <Loetmichel> waht is it called in english?
[08:45:41] <Valen> but "the ultimate" pliers
[08:45:50] <Valen> MDF is the one thats like dust
[08:45:57] <syyl> ultimate pliers?
[08:46:03] <syyl> go to knipex :)
[08:46:04] <Valen> chipboard is the one thats a few mm in size (the chips)
[08:46:05] <Loetmichel> no,. the bigger chips
[08:46:10] <syyl> chipboard
[08:46:18] <Loetmichel> ah
[08:46:18] <Valen> nah, better than them
[08:46:27] <syyl> better than knipex?
[08:46:31] <Valen> angular contact bearing (or a bushing)
[08:46:31] <Loetmichel> thge ones with nails and stones in it ;-)
[08:46:31] <jymmm> channellocks?
[08:46:36] <jymmm> vise grips?
[08:46:40] <Valen> not a pin that can wear
[08:46:47] <Valen> user servicable
[08:46:53] <Valen> replacable carbide jaws
[08:47:01] <syyl> i have knipex sidecutters from my father, +20years
[08:47:04] <Valen> stainless handles
[08:47:08] <jymmm> bolt cutters
[08:47:18] <syyl> they still work :D
[08:47:28] <Valen> I bet they aren't as good as the day they were made though
[08:47:38] <syyl> of course not
[08:47:44] <syyl> but they had their workout :D
[08:47:55] <syyl> a lot of heavy wire, piano wire
[08:48:28] <Valen> see in mine you could fix the slop by just tightening up the bearing, and replace the carbide inserts in the jaws
[08:48:34] <Valen> presto its as good as new
[08:48:54] <jymmm> I sharpened my T&B cutters with the Buck diamond stick, cuts like new now. No need to get it replaced under warranty
[08:48:58] <Loetmichel> Valen: if the brand is "knipex" the ARE as good today
[08:49:14] <Valen> well Loetmichel syyl just said they werent
[08:49:27] <Valen> and he has a pair he has been using for 20 years
[08:49:49] <Loetmichel> Valen: last one i bought si now about 5 jears old, and still the same quality as the ones from 30 years ago
[08:49:55] <Valen> the point i am making isn't that they are bad, its that you can't service them
[08:50:12] <Valen> yes, but if you have been using them for 30 years they will get worn
[08:50:30] <Loetmichel> ... but now ith 1000V isolated grips ;-)
[08:50:49] <jymmm> Loetmichel: wuss
[08:51:15] <Valen> you don't like the idea of the pliers I suggest?
[08:51:19] <Loetmichel> i have one sidecutter which is now a isolation stripper ;-)
[08:51:46] <Loetmichel> bought new... few days later i got the wrong cable to cut...
[08:51:49] <Loetmichel> *BAM*
[08:52:24] <jymmm> hole in jaws?
[08:52:28] <Loetmichel> now it has a nice hole for awg16 stripping in the cutting knifes ;-)
[08:53:00] <jymmm> yeah, been there, done that.
[08:53:11] <Loetmichel> but otherwise still functional
[08:53:28] <jymmm> I unpluged it, but someone plugged it back in. DOH
[08:53:35] <Loetmichel> even after rough mishandling and cutting 6mm 8.8 threaded bolts
[08:54:17] <Loetmichel> better than a friend of mine
[08:54:43] <Loetmichel> he was told to saw off the main power cable of a building "there at that concrete pillar"
[08:54:50] <Loetmichel> ... he did...
[08:55:24] <Loetmichel> what he didnt knew: the 5*90mm^2 copper on the OTHER side of the pillar was still under power
[08:55:37] <Loetmichel> ... he got the wrong one
[08:55:43] <Loetmichel> THAT was a bang
[08:56:00] <Loetmichel> ~10cm of the saw blade simply disintegrated
[08:56:32] <jymmm> just a lil spark, no biggy
[08:56:33] <Loetmichel> he had some molten steel in his clothes and face and couldnt see anything for a while
[08:56:58] <Loetmichel> otherwise he was fine
[08:57:15] <jymmm> he should have checked if it was live or not
[08:57:36] <Loetmichel> my fault
[08:57:53] <Loetmichel> i shouldnt have told a lathe guy to do electricans work ;-)
[08:58:11] <jymmm> ah
[09:01:00] <Loetmichel> i should have imagined that he would cut the cable running neatly fom the ground to the ceiling instad of the one with open ends looking in his face beside it
[09:08:18] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: svst2_4_7i47s.bit is for 200K 7I43 and svst2_4_7i47b.bit is for 400K 7I43
[10:09:29] <jthornton> jymmm, the extra #6 wire should have been a clue as well
[11:09:44] <Tom_itx> pcw_home thanks
[11:10:06] <Tom_itx> s small b big
[11:10:16] <Tom_itx> technical
[12:15:10] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the globe
[12:31:33] <ScribbleJ> I have a dumb question (as usual!)
[12:32:22] <ScribbleJ> I have an integrated ER11 spindle, can I just assume any ER11 collets are goingto fit right, I mean, ... that's why it's a dumb question. It's a standard, so they all work interchangably,... right?
[12:33:33] <IchGuckLive> yes
[12:35:53] <ScribbleJ> Thanks. IT's not easy being stupid.
[12:38:21] <IchGuckLive> watch ER11B
[12:38:23] <Tom_itx> mmm
[12:40:52] <Tom_itx> alot of software just to build a bit file
[12:42:51] <pcw_home> I think the whole webpack suite just barely fits on a DVD now (compressed)
[12:43:10] <Tom_itx> i couldn't find the.xml file
[12:43:42] <pcw_home> you trying to run pncconf?
[12:44:11] <Tom_itx> no
[12:44:34] <Tom_itx> what does that do?
[12:44:41] <Tom_itx> i don't think i've ever run it
[12:48:46] <pcw_home> its a GUI configuration program for Mesa cards (and what the xml file is needed for)
[12:48:57] <Tom_itx> oh
[12:49:07] <Tom_itx> so i really don't need the xml
[12:49:19] <pcw_home> no
[12:50:25] <Tom_itx> oh well, it's good practice
[12:55:33] <pcw_home> I think the LinuxCNC build script for the bitfiles makes the XML files but I dont generate them
[13:15:25] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, which .vhd file do i want for the 7i47 with the 400k gate cpld?
[13:15:33] <Tom_itx> on the 7i43
[13:16:24] <Tom_itx> pin_svst2_4_7i47_48.vhd ?
[13:18:10] <Tom_itx> meh i think i got it
[13:18:21] <Tom_itx> the script builds them all i think
[13:19:52] <andypugh> You can change the script to just build the one you want.
[13:21:07] <jymmm> alex_joni: What is he using?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utDo6QbsTA0&feature=related
[13:21:34] <Tom_itx> andypugh i did
[13:22:46] <andypugh> firmwares.txt ?
[13:23:38] <Tom_itx> yessir
[13:26:25] <skunkworks> jymmm:
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT#auto|en|Un%20mod%20simplu%20si%20ieftin%20de%20producere%20a%20spumei%20necesare%20la%20obtinerea%20BCU.%0APentru%20o%20betoniera%20de%20180l%20%28aproximativ%20120l%20util%29%20am%20folosit%20o%20reteta%20de%203%20galeti%20de%20nisip%2C%20una%20jumate%20de%20ciment%2C%20apa%20in%20functie%20de%20cat%20de%20ud%20e%20nisipul%20%287-10l%29%2C%20si%20s
[13:26:27] <skunkworks> puma.%20Reteta%20pentru%20spuma%20e%203%25spumogen%20si%20restul%20apa%20%28teoretic%29.%20Practic%20am%20folosit%2050%20ml%20la%20un%20litru%20de%20apa%2C%20adica%205%25%2C%20iar%20pentru%20o%20%22portie%22%20de%20BCU%20am%20folosit%201%2C5%20l%20de%20solutie%205%25%20spumogen.%0AImpresia%20mea%20a%20fost%20ca%20temperatura%20solutiei%20influenteaza%20calitatea%20spumei%2C%20dar%20nu%20am%20incer
[13:26:28] <skunkworks> cat%20sa%20studiez%20lucrul%20asta%2C%20ci%20doar%20am%20constatat%20ca%20daca%20solutia%20se%20incalzea%20de%20la%20soare%2C%20spuma%20era%20mai%20%22pufoasa%22.%0ABineinteles%20ca%20reteta%20poate%20fi%20modificata%2C%20dar%20eu%20sunt%20multumit%20de%20ce%20a%20iesit.%20Probabil%20un%20BCU%20de%20900-1000%20kg%2Fmc%2C%20destul%20de%20stabil%20mecanic%20%28mai%20stabil%20decat%20ce%20am%20vazut%
[13:26:30] <skunkworks> 20pe%20la%20comerciantii%20de%20blocuri%20de%20BCU%29.
[13:26:32] <skunkworks> heh
[13:26:32] <andypugh> jymmm: The Romans used pummice as the aggregate in their concrete when they built the Pantheon
[13:26:34] <skunkworks> sorry
[13:26:44] <DJ9DJ> great link, dude :D
[13:27:09] <jymmm> skunkworks: I already translated it, I wanted to know the brown liquid was
[13:27:19] <skunkworks> ah
[13:29:48] <Connor> what the heck is that ??
[13:30:32] <alex4nder-> hey
[13:32:49] <micges> Connor: matrix code ;)
[13:34:43] <Tom_itx> yay i think i got it
[13:34:59] <Tom_itx> at least axis loaded
[13:42:21] <jymmm> Pretty slick, watch the stress test video too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIllP-rDNRM&feature=related
[13:47:00] <frallzor> hello mah kitties
[13:48:46] <JT-Shop> lo
[13:48:57] <frallzor> hello mister JT
[13:49:27] <JT-Shop> quit calling me names LOL
[13:49:44] <frallzor> quit calling you James?
[13:50:02] <JT-Shop> that is my uncle
[13:52:08] <JT-Shop> you get hsm sorted out?
[13:52:40] <frallzor> not really
[13:52:51] <frallzor> ill just keep using the mach2 one =)
[13:52:59] <JT-Shop> I've discovered how to set the WCS
[13:53:05] <frallzor> seems to behave properly for me
[13:53:50] <JT-Shop> if it works use it is what I say
[13:54:28] <frallzor> how to set the WCS btw?
[13:55:15] <andypugh> That "secure set" reminds me of this:
http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#foam
[13:55:34] <JT-Shop> from the SW menu insert/reference/coordinate system and put that where 0,0,0 is and make sure XYZ point the right way
[13:55:58] <JT-Shop> next, on the hsm tab right click on job and select edit
[13:56:41] <frallzor> ah you mean that, that I can do allready
[13:56:52] <frallzor> (just not into all terms) =)
[13:57:21] <JT-Shop> ok
[13:59:10] <JT-Shop> crappy boring bar set uses a T8 screw and 1/4" IC inserts and you can't find any replacements as 1/4" IC only has a 0.089" through hole!
[13:59:17] <frallzor> ill stick with either the mach2 PP or the modified EMC and keep remembering it changes offsets and doesnt home =P
[13:59:53] <JT-Shop> your supposed to home the machine
[14:00:11] <JT-Shop> how does it change offsets again?
[14:00:20] <frallzor> I mean return to home when done
[14:00:25] <frallzor> the EMC-one doesnt
[14:00:38] <frallzor> just retracts the spindle and thats it
[14:00:39] <JT-Shop> a G28 move?
[14:00:50] <frallzor> tried adding one actually
[14:00:54] <frallzor> didnt happen anything
[14:01:06] <frallzor> for some reason
[14:02:10] <JT-Shop> does it generate a G28 move at the end?
[14:02:24] <frallzor> pretty sure it didnt
[14:02:34] <frallzor> I recall trying to add one with no luck
[14:04:07] <JT-Shop> look for something like this in the PP
http://pastebin.com/VHT7r2kx
[14:04:38] <JT-Shop> second question did you set up the G28 location you wish the machine to go to?
[14:05:50] <frallzor> yup
[14:06:09] <frallzor> XY 0
[14:06:25] <frallzor> the Z shouldnt be concerned when allready retracted?
[14:07:04] <frallzor> found that part in the PP
[14:07:26] <JT-Shop> look in your function onClose() for writeBlock(gFormat.format(28)
[14:08:43] <frallzor> si
[14:09:31] <frallzor> oh add home positions in the code?
[14:09:35] <frallzor> *in the PP
[14:09:44] <JT-Shop> add a g28
[14:10:15] <frallzor> now you lost me, according to my basic knowledge is seems its allready there?
[14:11:04] <JT-Shop> your using mach2mill.cps?
[14:11:20] <frallzor> im in the emc pp you sent me
[14:11:43] <frallzor> but when i use mach2mill it functions like expected yes =)
[14:11:56] <frallzor> goes to 0.0 etc etc when done
[14:12:06] <JT-Shop> linuxcnc-mill.cps?
[14:12:20] <JT-Shop> I have several now that I've been playing with
[14:12:32] <frallzor> mine is called same with a 2 in the ending
[14:13:19] <JT-Shop> line 40 change this to true useG28: false
[14:14:03] <frallzor> ah so simple as that?
[14:14:28] <JT-Shop> yea, I turned it off in case you had not set up your G28 position
[14:15:19] <frallzor> I assume thats what I do everytime
[14:17:40] <frallzor> it shall return to where I home it now I assume?
[14:17:57] <frallzor> yx 0 and the retracted height of Z?
[14:18:15] <JT-Shop> it will return to where you have set G28 which has nothing to do with homing
[14:18:40] <frallzor> all I do is home
[14:18:46] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/mill03.html
[14:18:50] <frallzor> and then it allways returns there
[14:19:35] <JT-Shop> you only home when you first power up right?
[14:19:38] <frallzor> yup
[14:19:50] <frallzor> and the machine allways "returns" home when done
[14:20:05] <frallzor> except with the emc PP
[14:20:08] <JT-Shop> not unless you tell it to somehow
[14:20:19] <frallzor> I assume its the PP then
[14:20:24] <JT-Shop> ok then G28 is set to 0,0,0
[14:20:37] <frallzor> figured that
[14:20:37] <JT-Shop> read that short link
[14:21:23] <frallzor> ah I see
[14:21:59] <frallzor> I assume I set G28 somehow when making the operations in HSM?
[14:22:22] <JT-Shop> nope you do that in the MDI window with G28.1
[14:22:46] <frallzor> nothing I have ever done =)
[14:23:03] <frallzor> there isnt a default set?
[14:23:05] <JT-Shop> try it you will like it :-)
[14:23:24] <JT-Shop> no such thing as default settings in LinuxCNC
[14:23:31] <frallzor> since it seems to rely on things I have never done :P
[14:23:42] <JT-Shop> lucky guy
[14:24:06] <JT-Shop> that's why I wrote the G code tutorial
[14:26:09] <frallzor> odd that its allways worked like this for me =)
[14:26:24] <frallzor> it allways does what it should, retracts, and goes back to xy0
[14:27:19] <JT-Shop> what does the G28 line look like at the end of your g code?
[14:35:48] <frallzor> stupid gfx-driver =(
[14:37:16] <jymmm> Is there a simplistic way to automate the dispensing of a pre-determined amount of hot liquid?
[14:37:52] <JT-Shop> yep
[14:37:53] <cradek> I take a leak about the same time every morning
[14:38:08] <JT-Shop> metering pump
[14:38:13] <jymmm> cradek: the amount can vary =)
[14:38:19] <jymmm> JT-Shop: sounds expensive
[14:38:30] <jymmm> JT-Shop: is there a ghetto version?
[14:38:43] <JT-Shop> depends on the volume and how accurate you need it
[14:39:03] <frallzor> JT-Shop you look like a handy dandy man
[14:39:13] <frallzor> you into wood working?
[14:39:26] <jymmm> maybe 0.25oz +/- 10%
[14:39:28] <JT-Shop> we use two air cylinders and two check valves to put hot oil into lawnmower engines on the assembly line
[14:40:17] <JT-Shop> you should be able to do that with air cylinders provided the liquid is not harmful to the seals
[14:40:31] <jymmm> JT-Shop: how did you set the qty?
[14:40:44] <jymmm> no damage to seals
[14:40:47] <JT-Shop> adjust the stroke with physical stops
[14:41:17] <JT-Shop> couple air cylinders together so one cylinder strokes the second one
[14:41:28] <jymmm> JT-Shop: no way to replace the physical stops with a ladder entry?
[14:41:33] <JT-Shop> back side of pump cyl is vented and front side is the pump
[14:42:10] <JT-Shop> sure change driving cyl to a servo driven linear actuator
[14:42:24] <jymmm> oh, heh
[14:42:49] <JT-Shop> you talking tweaking the amount or double/half changes
[14:44:22] <jymmm> different capacities and just have one CL file per. I also suspect the volume is going to change summer/winter and want to consistantly be able to adjust for that.
[14:45:24] <JT-Shop> so two change overs per year?
[14:45:36] <jymmm> minimum
[14:45:51] <jymmm> I wonder how much a surplus IV pump goes for
[14:46:11] <JT-Shop> just make the driving cyl a double rod and have an adjusting nut and jam nut on the free one then
[14:46:25] <JT-Shop> too slow
[14:46:58] <jymmm> Do any of the measuring pumps have heaters too?
[14:47:28] <JT-Shop> we put the heater into the liquid tank, the more mass the more stable the temperature
[14:47:44] <JT-Shop> what material are you heating?
[14:48:13] <jymmm> wax
[14:49:31] <JT-Shop> low watt density heaters for that I assume
[14:49:51] <JT-Shop> and perhaps a band heater on the cylinder
[14:50:22] <jymmm> Yeah, it's just the plumbing/piping that I think would be an issue
[14:53:22] <JT-Shop> mount the metering cyl inside the tank
[14:54:50] <jymmm> JT-Shop: do you have a link to one of these cyl by chance?
[14:55:36] <JT-Shop> bimba would be the cheapest
[14:55:52] <jdhNC> nothing like having a cheap bimbo
[14:56:01] <jymmm> lol
[14:57:18] <jymmm> JT-Shop: I guess I'm just not invisioning the setup you're describing, any pics?
[14:57:59] <JT-Shop> can you see a cyl in your mind?
[14:58:35] <jymmm> engine block
[14:58:48] <JT-Shop> air cyl
[14:59:19] <jymmm> oh the stroke determines the qty
[14:59:26] <JT-Shop> aye
[14:59:58] <JT-Shop> and the cyl bore
[15:00:33] <jymmm> is the stroke adjustable?
[15:00:42] <JT-Shop> http://www.bimba.com/Products-and-Cad/Actuators/Inch/Round-Line/Non-Repairable/Original-Line-Cylinder/
[15:00:55] <JT-Shop> you design that into your system
[15:02:23] <jymmm> JT-Shop: and I run hot wax where one would normally put air?
[15:02:32] <JT-Shop> aye
[15:02:55] <JT-Shop> + two check valves and you have a pump
[15:03:09] <JT-Shop> a positive displacement pump actually
[15:03:11] <jymmm> one cyl and two check valves?
[15:03:29] <JT-Shop> that makes the pump part yes
[15:03:43] <JT-Shop> you still need a second cyl to stroke the pump
[15:03:43] <jymmm> and what to drive "the pump"?
[15:03:48] <jymmm> k
[15:04:27] <jymmm> you think a steper motor and a 2-4" wheel attached to it could drive the pump?
[15:05:34] <JT-Shop> you might make a linear actuator from a stepper motor and a acme screw, but first you need to know how much force is needed to stroke the pump
[15:05:50] <archivist> the obvious questions arise, viscosity, stepper size, smallest holes the liquid is forced through, and you want an answer
[15:07:28] <jymmm> JT-Shop: and no issue installing the cyl in a hot tank huh?
[15:07:42] <cradek> air works great for stuff like this
[15:07:59] <cradek> you can get speed and force from air cyls so easily
[15:08:25] <jymmm> cradek: can you control the stroke with air?
[15:09:17] <cradek> no, you'd adjust the stroke with mechanical stops
[15:09:19] <archivist> you missed the explanation of stroke length control
[15:09:35] <jymmm> cradek: k
[15:13:42] <Aero-Tec> thought lathe was fixed
[15:13:49] <Aero-Tec> still acting up
[15:13:59] <Aero-Tec> EMC is working great so far
[15:14:19] <Aero-Tec> but I am still having the motor problem
[15:14:20] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Nice, Bimba has an operating temp of -20 to 200F
[15:14:54] <Aero-Tec> even with 470 resistors for pull up they are still acting up
[15:15:41] <Aero-Tec> back to the drawing board
[15:15:43] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: limit switches?
[15:16:03] <Aero-Tec> no limit switches installed yet
[15:16:13] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: what are the pullups for?
[15:16:34] <Aero-Tec> it was acting up when DIR was high
[15:16:48] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: any shielding? rfi/emi?
[15:16:53] <Aero-Tec> so someone suggested pullup resistors
[15:17:40] <Aero-Tec> encoders are shielded
[15:17:43] <archivist> Aero-Tec, so it got better?
[15:17:54] <Aero-Tec> looks like
[15:18:01] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: is the shield connected at both ends?
[15:18:10] <Aero-Tec> hard to tell, comes and goes so much
[15:18:17] <Aero-Tec> no
[15:18:21] <Aero-Tec> just one end
[15:18:22] <jymmm> k
[15:18:56] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: any electrical power cables running parallel to the signal wires?
[15:19:05] <Aero-Tec> no
[15:19:37] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: and your running shielded cbale on everything?
[15:20:06] <Aero-Tec> just encoders are shielded
[15:20:29] <jymmm> and the motor cables ?
[15:20:46] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: are you using twisted pair of the motor cables?
[15:20:51] <Aero-Tec> not shielded
[15:20:52] <jymmm> s/of/on/
[15:21:41] <Aero-Tec> s/of/on ??
[15:21:47] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: are you using twisted pair on the motor cables?
[15:21:47] <Aero-Tec> not sure what that is
[15:21:51] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: are you using twisted pair on the motor cables?
[15:22:04] <Aero-Tec> no twisted pair
[15:22:36] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: then I'd suggest you get some shielded and/or twist pair and try it as a test.
[15:22:51] <Aero-Tec> are you asking about sig connection or wires to the motor, nether are twisted
[15:23:13] <Aero-Tec> so your talking the sig lines
[15:23:39] <jymmm> twisted pair helps reduce electrical cross-talk noise.
[15:24:58] <Aero-Tec> so sig line twisted around the ground line?
[15:25:21] <jymmm> well, usually the other way around, but yes.
[15:25:39] <Aero-Tec> we are not talking the motor wires right?
[15:26:05] <jymmm> Yes, cable between drive and motor
[15:26:23] <jymmm> especially if it's long
[15:26:35] <Aero-Tec> I used power wire for the motor
[15:26:44] <jymmm> what is "power wire"?
[15:27:10] <Aero-Tec> 110/220 heavy gauge cab tire
[15:28:15] <jymmm> did you cut up an extension cord and use that?
[15:30:03] <Aero-Tec> I guess they twist it when making it
[15:30:36] <Aero-Tec> not extension cord
[15:30:44] <Aero-Tec> cad tire wire
[15:31:01] <Aero-Tec> back rubber coated wire
[15:31:18] <Aero-Tec> cab not cad
[15:32:17] <Aero-Tec> it can be used for making a extension cord
[15:34:53] <jymmm> and you need that heavy gauge?
[15:35:31] <Aero-Tec> not really
[15:35:36] <archivist> the wire type is not important
[15:36:03] <Aero-Tec> less power drop to motor
[15:36:20] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: If you want the nice rubber jacketed stuff, I'd test with audio cable, it's usually shielded
[15:36:47] <jymmm> like they use in theater/stage productions.
[15:36:52] <Aero-Tec> funny thing is it come and goes with out my doing any thing
[15:37:19] <Aero-Tec> would have to go to the big city to find that
[15:37:29] <Aero-Tec> the other stuff was local
[15:37:33] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: you can probably hit home depot and get a 4cond, shielded pair at to test with.
[15:37:36] <Aero-Tec> but I may just do that
[15:37:55] <Aero-Tec> will check
[15:38:22] <Aero-Tec> so why would it work well for years
[15:38:34] <Aero-Tec> and now act up?
[15:38:44] <Aero-Tec> and have it come and go
[15:39:13] <archivist> have you set the setup timing correctly on the signals
[15:39:21] <Aero-Tec> it can run very well and then start messing up
[15:39:57] <Aero-Tec> some time the motor will not move, some times it move well but you can just hear it is not smooth
[15:39:59] <archivist> your descriptions of faults do not help us to help you
[15:40:06] <Aero-Tec> and other time it run great
[15:40:46] <Aero-Tec> also some time it will trigger error right away, some times in mid move, and yet other time it will not trip at all
[15:41:16] <archivist> Aero-Tec, read this
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[15:41:17] <Aero-Tec> even when the motor in not moving but the dro is going it will not trip the error on the geckos
[15:41:56] <Aero-Tec> yet some times it trips so fast it is all most instant
[15:43:09] <Aero-Tec> oh and one other thing
[15:43:46] <Aero-Tec> some time one drive, ether x or z, some times both
[15:43:47] <archivist> have you started reading that page I linked yet
[15:44:01] <Aero-Tec> I did and came back here
[15:44:10] <Aero-Tec> heading there again
[15:44:52] <archivist> and have you checked your timings and states to suit your drive yet
[15:45:06] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: They sell this by the foot in store, but check if it's shielded pair, else get some of the shield 2 conductor instead AS A TEST
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202316270/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=shielded+cable&storeId=10051
[15:59:48] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[16:11:45] <A0Sheds> anyone converted their oxy/acetylene torches to oxy/propane?
[16:13:15] <roycroft> i haven
[16:13:17] <roycroft> 't
[16:13:18] <cradek> jewelers sometimes use oxy/natural gas
[16:13:33] <roycroft> jewlers usually us acetylene/air
[16:13:35] <roycroft> use
[16:13:55] <roycroft> my smith jewler's torch (which is what most jewlers have) is acetylene/air
[16:13:56] <cradek> are you sure? iirc acetylene puts that black ash in the castings
[16:14:18] <A0Sheds> they bumped the price of acetylene up around here
[16:14:24] <roycroft> i don't see the purpose of converting an acetylene torch to propane
[16:14:28] <roycroft> the acetylene crisis is over
[16:14:32] <cradek> I think the one I worked for used something different for platinum - maybe it was propane?
[16:14:34] <A0Sheds> I use it just for cutting
[16:14:54] <cradek> I bet many people have a huge propane tank nearby for heating
[16:15:01] <micges> A0Sheds: hand or machine torch?
[16:15:05] <roycroft> for day-to-day solderling/annealing work the smith acetylene/air torch is the standard
[16:15:07] <cradek> seems convenient then
[16:15:13] <A0Sheds> micges, hand
[16:15:19] <roycroft> i can see using different gasses for other purposes
[16:15:24] <roycroft> so we may both be right :)
[16:15:28] * cradek shrugs
[16:15:35] <cradek> it's been years and my memory is always a bit fuzzy anyway
[16:15:44] <roycroft> and i've never worked with platinum
[16:15:51] * roycroft 's blood isn't that rich
[16:16:21] <roycroft> i've hardly ever worked with gold, myself
[16:16:29] <roycroft> mostly silver and red metals
[16:17:11] <andypugh> Acetylene is becoming hard to get hold of now. Something to do with being rather dangerous.
[16:17:27] <archivist> we just used a propane blunderbuss for clock stuff at the last job
[16:17:40] <A0Sheds> to go to natural gas/oxy for cutting I'd need to bump the 1 PSI up to ~45 or so
[16:17:58] <andypugh> My sister's welding torch is oxy-hydrogen.
[16:18:11] <roycroft> acetylene is in good supply again
[16:18:16] <A0Sheds> andypugh, the story around here was a large plant fire that caused a shortage
[16:18:35] <roycroft> a big acetylene production plant in washington stage blew up last year, and the price went crazy for a while
[16:18:39] <roycroft> but it's come back down again
[16:18:55] <roycroft> at least in eugene
[16:18:57] <A0Sheds> I guess they haven't heard of the price drop around here :)
[16:19:21] <roycroft> plasma is cheaper than any gas :)
[16:19:24] <A0Sheds> 30% bump
[16:19:30] <andypugh> We have been prevented from storing acetylene in the workshop because it is inconvenient in case of fire (100yd exclusion zone for a day or two)
[16:19:58] <roycroft> since you make your own plasma
[16:20:11] <roycroft> from readily-available materials
[16:20:22] <andypugh> When that radius includes the Royal Albert Hall and a major University, that is a problem.
[16:20:35] <archivist> firemen are a little wimpish over acetylene bottles over here
[16:21:28] <A0Sheds> the plasma cutter doesn't do to well cutting off bolts on rusty suspensions
[16:21:35] <andypugh> I don't know what the alternative is for bronze-welding though.
[16:23:07] <A0Sheds> andypugh, how well to the 1-3L diesels in the EU do running on biodiesel?
[16:23:27] <andypugh> The common-rail ones don't like it at all.
[16:24:15] <A0Sheds> andypugh, I've been considering importing used but working diesels from the EU for retrofits into older cars here
[16:25:01] <andypugh> If you stick to rotary pump ones, no problem. Actually, "proper" biodiesel is fine too. The problem is trying to use refined chip-fat.
[16:25:42] <A0Sheds> andypugh, what is the problem with refined was oils/fats? not enough filtering or?
[16:26:31] <andypugh> They meter by time, not volume. So unless the viscosity (and temperature/viscosity relationship) are the same as pump diesel then the fuelling is all wrong.
[16:26:49] <A0Sheds> ok, interesting
[16:27:14] <A0Sheds> so if I match the viscosity over temp close enough it should be good
[16:27:24] <andypugh> In theory.
[16:27:26] <A0Sheds> play with additives. wax etc
[16:27:58] <andypugh> But your pump fuel is practically free anyway.
[16:28:17] <A0Sheds> andypugh, how about reprogramming the cpu's for different curves?
[16:29:14] <andypugh> That would work, if you could get into the ECU, and if you had the equipment to work out which numbers to put in.
[16:29:39] <andypugh> (and find the right map, we have 40,000 calibration labels)
[16:30:00] <A0Sheds> cars would need new ECU's anyway for a retrofit from gas to diesel
[16:30:44] <andypugh> Yes, and that would be a problem too. You can't just take the one from the original engine, as they talk to so many other vehicle systems.
[16:31:10] <andypugh> We can't even swap modules between the same engine in different cars.
[16:31:19] <A0Sheds> but for pre-OBD cars
[16:31:46] <andypugh> (ie the Mondeo ECU won't work at all in a Focus, even with the same DW10C engne)
[16:32:05] <andypugh> If you stick to rotary-pump engines you should be fine,
[16:32:15] <andypugh> But those are all getting a bit old now.
[16:32:28] <archivist> mine still runs :)
[16:32:35] <A0Sheds> there's a market for them here
[16:32:50] <andypugh> There's no market for new ones, it appears.
[16:32:55] <A0Sheds> it's really hard to find small diesels for a low price
[16:33:11] <andypugh> That's because they really struggle with the US emissions regs.
[16:33:12] <archivist> 184k miles and I had to order a wheel bearing today!
[16:33:25] <A0Sheds> an old VW diesel engine might sell for $>1K
[16:33:57] <A0Sheds> there seems to be a loophole for older cars and diesel swaps
[16:36:08] <A0Sheds> archivist, what car?
[16:36:21] <archivist> Mondeo
[16:36:50] <A0Sheds> you guys get all the nicer cars
[16:37:01] <archivist> eh
[16:37:04] <jymmm> JT-Shop: Wow, those Bimbas are cheap, even at high temp ratings, etc. TYVM
[16:37:40] <archivist> A0Sheds, the other name we used to use was Dagenham Dustbin
[16:38:16] <andypugh> Wasn't it made in Genk?
[16:38:24] <A0Sheds> they purposely left the emissions levels low to keep diesels off the streets here, is there a problem with sulfur in the air in the EU?
[16:38:50] <andypugh> No. There was, but it seems OK now. The trees grow in Norway again.
[16:39:08] <archivist> andypugh, I dont think that term has been used much since the 1970's for fords
[16:39:57] <A0Sheds> they decided it was best for the oil co's here if 50-60mpg diesels were kept of the US streets
[16:40:02] <andypugh> We are _really_ struggling with the next set of NOx limits, it is going to cost a great deal of fuel economy. Considering I don't think there has been a photochemical smog for decades, I think perhaps that particular limit might be low enough now.
[16:40:02] <archivist> when we had rust buckets like the Anglia
[16:40:48] <andypugh> We had an Anglia when I was a kid. I used to think that all cars needed shoving to the adjacent hill to start them.
[16:41:17] <A0Sheds> was there an EU version of the Pinto?
[16:41:28] <archivist> I could see the road though the wheel arch while driving
[16:41:30] <andypugh> I don't think so.
[16:43:13] <A0Sheds> I'd like to find the factory diesel for my 94 Land Cruiser
[16:43:29] <A0Sheds> they sold them everywhere but the US
[16:45:18] <A0Sheds> or swap to a Cummins in a few years
[16:47:21] <Aero-Tec> went and checked no shielded wire at the local store
[16:47:29] <jymmm> Heh, I solved my lightbulb heated sheet metal lined hot box issue =)
[16:47:35] <Aero-Tec> will try the twisted pair thing
[16:47:45] <Aero-Tec> cool
[16:47:47] <Aero-Tec> how?
[16:47:53] <A0Sheds> thanks, off to buy "T" hose and some new fittings for propane
[16:48:03] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Plaiting works..
[16:48:49] <Aero-Tec> andypugh: what works?
[16:49:03] <Aero-Tec> never heard of plaiting
[16:49:07] <andypugh> I believe you call it "braiding"
[16:49:19] <Aero-Tec> ok
[16:49:34] <jymmm> Aero-Tec: Galvinized trash can =)
[16:49:54] <Aero-Tec> that is a great idea, I think they have some at the electrical supply place
[16:50:08] <jymmm> and on craiglist too =)
[16:50:44] <jymmm> No construction, no raw materials to buy, no cover to create.
[16:50:49] <Aero-Tec> going to the small city tomorrow so will check on it then
[16:51:24] <Aero-Tec> need to insulate it now
[16:51:47] <jymmm> link a hot water heater blanket? <grin>
[16:51:53] <jymmm> like
[16:52:33] <Aero-Tec> your call, your paying the bill
[16:52:38] <jymmm> lol
[16:53:01] <jymmm> For the simplicity, I think it'll do for a start at least.
[16:53:45] <jymmm> I fully believe in the KISS methodology =)
[16:53:58] <Aero-Tec> me to
[16:56:10] <jymmm> Sadly, I used to think this shit up in minutes to hours, now it's days to weeks =(
[16:57:32] <Tom_itx> how can i adjust the feed for manually jogging the axis if i haven't homed them? i don't have any switches wired up for these tests
[16:58:33] <JT-Shop> the jog sliders?
[16:58:54] <Tom_itx> oh
[16:59:35] <Tom_itx> i disabled the switches in hal for the time being
[17:00:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what's your max velocity set to on yours?
[17:00:37] <JT-Shop> my what?
[17:00:45] <Tom_itx> i think i'll be able to ramp stuff up a bit with these new drivers etc
[17:00:47] <Tom_itx> plasma
[17:01:06] <Tom_itx> it's running the same drivers and very similar steppers
[17:01:29] <Tom_itx> better yet, you mind posting your ini and hal for it?
[17:01:47] <Tom_itx> mine is all working but the feeds step timing etc
[17:01:53] <Tom_itx> need adjustment
[17:02:31] <JT-Shop> I think all my config files are on my web site
[17:03:10] <atom1> got a link handy?
[17:03:15] <JT-Shop> yep still there
http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[17:03:58] <atom1> just finished installing and tested one stepper with this setup
[17:04:07] <atom1> works much better than my old controller
[17:04:25] <atom1> i knew it would though
[17:04:45] <atom1> i got it before USB was even born
[17:05:43] <atom1> when did you switch to a 5i20?
[17:05:53] <atom1> i thought you were using a 7i43 on that
[17:06:11] <JT-Shop> I started on a 5i20 and switched to a 5i25
[17:10:05] <Tom_itx> what is stepgen_maxaccel vs max_acceleration?
[17:10:11] <Tom_itx> you use both
[17:13:54] <JT-Shop> look in the hal file to see what stepgen_maxaccel does
[17:19:30] <atom1> it looks like it maps to hostmot2 maxaccel
[17:20:29] <Tom_itx> but how is that different than max_acceleration?
[17:26:04] <andypugh> Tom_itx: One is a machine limit, the other is err, something else.
[17:26:12] <Tom_itx> hah
[17:26:39] <andypugh> It used to be that you could leave the stepgen one at zero, but PCW found a reason not to.
[17:27:04] <Tom_itx> well you'd think it wouldn't be set higher than the machine limit one
[17:27:19] <andypugh> No, I think it needs to be 10% higher.
[17:27:31] <JT-Shop> yea there was some reason to set it some percent higher should be a note
[17:28:01] <Tom_itx> ok well mine doesn't have that parameter
[17:28:07] <Tom_itx> guess it will soon
[17:28:26] <JT-Shop> you can add custom items to the ini file and use them in your hal files
[17:28:35] <andypugh> Well, if your HAL doesn't use it, there is no point putting it in the iNI
[17:28:56] <Tom_itx> it's tied into the hostmot2 driver though isn't it?
[17:29:16] <andypugh> Only if it appears in the HAL
[17:29:33] <Tom_itx> i'd just like to know what the difference is
[17:29:41] <JT-Shop> you could to obfuscate your ini file
[17:31:48] <andypugh> maxaccel is a parameter of the Hostmot2 stepgen, unless there is a setp for it in the HAL file then it doesn't get set. The HAL drivers do not read the INI file.
[17:33:02] <Tom_itx> yeah i figured that
[17:33:03] <JT-Shop> no, but if you used it like setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAX_ACC
[17:35:15] <atom1> but will the hostmot2 driver honor the max_acceleration value if the stepgen_maxaccel isn't there or will it override it if it is?
[17:35:44] <Tom_itx> they somewhat seem like conflicting values
[17:36:38] <JT-Shop> in some cases not having it the way I have you can have some kind of problem that i forget what it is
[17:36:54] <Tom_itx> heh
[17:36:56] <Tom_itx> ok
[17:36:56] <JT-Shop> it has to do with the computer or something
[17:37:05] <Tom_itx> this is more for understanding than anything
[17:37:29] <JT-Shop> when you understand please pass it along
[17:37:59] <Tom_itx> where's the link to all the help files now?
[17:38:04] <Tom_itx> i gotta update all my links
[17:38:13] <JT-Shop> boot cold boot hot boot size 9 boot I think
[17:38:30] <JT-Shop> on the main web site under documents
[17:38:41] <JT-Shop> you mean the manuals?
[17:38:48] <Tom_itx> yeah
[17:38:53] <Tom_itx> hostmot2 etc
[17:39:33] <andypugh> man hostmot2
[17:39:36] <Tom_itx> i've got it
[17:39:45] <Tom_itx> andy, not in windows
[17:39:45] <JT-Shop> on the html scroll down some you will find it
[17:39:46] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:43:13] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: unless your voltage and friction and mass are the same as mine, my accel values may not work for you
[17:43:27] <Tom_itx> i know
[17:43:44] <JT-Shop> ok
[17:43:46] <Tom_itx> but all i had to go off of was my old controller which was rs232 based :)
[17:44:43] <Tom_itx> the voltage is doubled now
[17:45:44] <JT-Shop> I think I'm right at 60vdc on the plasma
[17:45:54] <Tom_itx> 50 here
[18:18:54] <jdhNC> I added one of those due to backlash compensation errors
[18:20:15] <atom1> jdhNC, one of what?
[18:23:23] <jdhNC> maxaccel
[18:23:50] <jdhNC> are you using something other than a 7i47?
[18:24:01] <atom1> no
[18:24:09] <atom1> just new drivers
[18:24:17] <frysteev> why are emc videos like this?
[18:24:19] <frysteev> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aitzr_3p9MM
[18:24:43] <jdhNC> you have everything through the 7i47? any switches, buttons, etc?
[18:26:56] <atom1> just about everything
[18:27:08] <atom1> i will have the limits once i hook it to the machine
[18:27:23] <atom1> pendant etc
[18:27:41] <jdhNC> how are you going to wire the limits to the 7i47 differential inputs?
[18:28:08] <atom1> i think i wired those directly to the other port on the 7i43
[18:28:43] <jdhNC> I was hoping to put everything on the 7i47, but it looks too painful
[18:28:55] <atom1> mine is getting pretty full
[18:29:44] <atom1> for now anyway i'm trying to keep the pinouts consistent with my old controller so i can swap stuff back and forth
[18:30:03] <atom1> i'm using db25 plugs for the signals
[18:30:19] <atom1> once i get an enclosure i may hardwire all of it
[18:32:00] <atom1> JT-Shop, i noticed you don't have a BASE_PERIOD in the ini either
[18:32:14] <atom1> does that default to some value?
[18:32:26] <andypugh> You don't need a base-thread with Mesa cards
[18:32:42] <atom1> oh, that's good to know :)
[18:33:04] <atom1> makes sense since the timing comes from it's own clock source
[18:35:02] <atom1> how can i set gedit to open multiple instances instead of tabs?
[18:47:09] <jymmm> preferences?
[18:47:47] <atom1> didn't find it
[19:00:06] <jymmm> atom1:
http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-946073.html
[19:00:18] <pfred1> ignore
[19:01:52] <jymmm> ore, go,in,gin,go,on,no,rig,gore,
[19:03:04] * pfred1 was just checking
[19:48:00] <Tom_itx> ping
[19:48:01] <JT-Shop> atom1: don't need a base period with the 5i25 or 5i20
[19:48:01] <JT-Shop> there is no default anything iirc
[19:54:42] <Tom_itx> thanks for that andypugh
[19:56:23] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: you see my reply?
[19:56:35] <Tom_itx> no
[19:56:41] <Tom_itx> got lost in the netsplit
[19:59:06] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[19:59:06] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at
http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-05-25.html
[19:59:47] <Tom_itx> zlog
[20:00:30] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:00:45] <Tom_itx> andy suggested it's not needed on mesa boards
[20:01:08] <Tom_itx> or is it just the 5i20 5i25?
[20:02:51] <JT-Shop> no base period is needed with a 5i25 or 5i20
[20:03:06] <JT-Shop> I think any pci board for sure
[20:05:09] <Tom_itx> well this is a 7i43 parport one
[20:06:35] <JT-Shop> don't have a clue, but you might just look at the sample configs that Seb made for the 7i43
[20:07:10] <Tom_itx> i've had this working, i'm just comparing notes
[20:09:09] <JT-Shop> ok
[20:15:01] <JT-Shop> well I got that part of the post processor working so I'm calling it a night
[20:15:07] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[20:16:16] <Tom_itx> later
[21:26:04] <jymmm> Can anyone think of a reason why sunflower seeds might corrode a galvanized trash can they were stored in?
[21:27:11] <Tom_itx> are they acidic?
[21:27:18] <Tom_itx> are they salted?
[21:27:25] <jymmm> raw, unsalted
[22:20:44] <skunkworks__> linoleic acid
[22:28:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/2E7Lw
[22:28:45] <r00t4rd3d> soon
